← Verdict with Ted Cruz
Verdict with Ted Cruz
Beating Dem Obstruction on Trump Cabinet Nominees, plus Border Executive Orders & Biden Pardons
00:37:39
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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
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- [01:01]
Ben Ferguson
Welcome. It is verdict with Senator Ted Cruz. Ben Ferguson with you. I'll start with good news. We've got Senator Cruz back. You've got what? I'd say half the voice, 60%. Where are we right now with this?
- [01:12]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah, something like that. I gotta say, doing a weekend where you go to like seven inauguration balls and you're just going from event to event to event. I've got a nasty cold. My voice was completely ragged two days ago. It's still pretty weak. I canceled pretty much all my media interviews just because I'm trying to rest my voice. But. But I'm back to the podcast because. Because I love you guys.
- [01:38]
Ben Ferguson
See, I. You know, we started rumors while you were gone. This was you partying too hard and. And we're blaming your old co host because there is a picture on the Internet of you guys having cigars together at the inauguration.
- [01:50]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah, I will confess. Knowles and I were at a cigar bar smoking cigars and having scotch at three in the morning. Which you know, with. With Jeremy Boring and Ben Shapiro and.
- [02:01]
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All the Daily Wire guys.
- [02:02]
Senator Ted Cruz
And it was great fun, but it really is crappy for your voice.
- [02:06]
Ben Ferguson
It really does it. Yeah. There we go. Well there, as my mom would say. Did you learn anything from that experience, Senator?
- [02:12]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
- [02:14]
Ben Ferguson
Good answer. Good answer. All right, this is also interesting because right now you're still in Washington D.C. we're recording this late Thursday night. That's not normal. Normally we record after you get back to Houston about the same time, but you're still in D.C. what's going on?
- [02:32]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, it looks like we're going to be here throughout the weekend. So we're in the middle of confirming Cabinet nominees at this point. We confirm Marco Rubio On January 20th, on Inauguration Day, Rubio was confirmed 99. 0. He was unanimous. That was not surprising. But the Democrats are already being obstructionists. They're already blocking nominees. So we confirmed earlier today John Ratcliffe to be the head of the CIA. We should have done that on January 20th as well. It was a big vote. The vote was 74 to 25. So a whole bunch of Democrats voted for Radcliffe, and yet the Democrats are trying to drag it out and delay it. We're now on Pete Hegseth. And the Democrats really, really, really wanted want to defeat Pete Hegseth. So they're just. The tool that the opposition party has in the Senate is they can delay. They can. For major Cabinet nominees. The rules require 30 hours, and so you can drag it out. And so what the Republican majority is doing, we're saying, fine, if you're gonna drag it out, then we're not going home. We're gonna stay here under the 30 hours. We're going to vote on Pete Hexseth, I think, at 9pm Friday night. And then we're immediately gonna move to Kristi Noem. And if they want, we'll take another 30 hours, and then we'll vote on Sunday. And we're gonna move forward, and we're gonna move forward. And to be honest, this is not that unusual of a battle. You see the opposition party trying to drag things out. And the way you basically break that opposition is, listen, the Democrats want to get home. They got fundraisers. They got to see their family. They got to go do events. They're doing all sorts of things. They're going to sporting games. You know, it makes senators very grumpy when they have to stay through the weekend and they don't get home. And so hopefully, after the Democrats do this for a little while, they'll stop engaging in unreasonable delay. And the way this ends is they say, okay, we agree to expedite the votes and to move more swiftly through the votes. One way or another, we're going to get these Cabinet nominees confirmed. I think within 30 days, all of the Cabinet nominees will be confirmed. Hegseth will probably be the one that's the closest battle. The vote today on Hegseth was 51 to 49. So two Republicans voted no. Susan Collins voted no. Lisa Murkowski voted no, which wasn't a terribly big surprise. They were the two most likely to vote no. But the nice thing about having a 53 vote majority is we can lose. We could actually lose three votes and still get them confirmed, because at 50, 50, JD Vance as the Vice President would break the tie. And so if Susan and Lisa vote no, that doesn't alter the result. And so I fully expect that by tomorrow night, Pete Hegseth will be confirmed as Defense Secretary. And we're going to move through. Actually, earlier today, I chaired the Senate Commerce Committee and we voted out Sean Duffy, who is the nominee to be Transportation Secretary. And the vote on Sean Duffy was unanimous. So every Republican, every Democrat voted for it. It was interesting. The Democrats were chattering a little bit that they might oppose him because they were mad that Trump had halted the Green New Deal funding. But at the end of the day, when we came to the vote, when they did the roll call, everyone voted no. And I sort of. I sit next to John Thune on the commerc. I leaned over to Thune and said, huh, Turns out even the Democrats want roads and bridges in their states. Funny how that works.
- [06:12]
Ben Ferguson
And if you don't know Sean, Sean is just such a genuine nice guy. He's authentic, he's real. His questioning that you guys had of him, it would be really hard. And I think it'd look petty if you went against him.
- [06:24]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah, look, he's a good guy. He's gonna do a terrific job as Secretary of Transportation. And that historically is a fairly nonpartisan job when it comes to transportation and infrastructure. Every state cares about it. If you're doing it right, you should be doing it fairly based on need. So you shouldn't be favoring your buddies and punishing your enemies. And I think Sean will implement the law fairly. And that's one thing every senator does, is you go advocate for your state. And look, when it comes to the state of Texas, we have enormous infrastructure needs because we're growing like crazy. Here's an amazing statistic. When I was elected 13 years ago, there were 26 million Texans. Today, there are more than 31 million Texans. We've added 5 million Texans in just 13 years. That is enormous. And that means we've got huge transportation needs, because when you add 5 million people, that's a lot more people on cars, that's a lot more people on trucks, that's a lot more people. A lot more cargo being shipped on trains, that's a lot more need for bridges, that's a lot more ships coming in and out of our ports. And so I think Sean Duffy's gonna do a terrific job. And I will say also, it is very good for the state of Texas that I'm the chairman of the Commerce Committee, because I will say it does not hurt if you're advocating for your state, if you happen to be the chairman of the committee that has oversight over the Department of Transportation. And so that, for the state of Texas is a good thing.
- [07:57]
Ben Ferguson
It really is. So we've got a lot to talk about on the show, including a lot of executive orders on border. And also, I want to get to Biden's pardon issues. Donald Trump made some comments about that. We're going to play that coming up, just so people know where we're going with this. But let's go back to the politics of the, of the Democrats stalling and trying to delay these votes. What is the thinking behind that? And why, if you're in their camp tonight, are they saying, is it worth it? And how are they figuring out? When do they say, okay, enough's enough already. Let's get to these votes? What's the upside? I, I'm trying to genuinely figure that out for them.
- [08:34]
Senator Ted Cruz
Oh, look, at some point they'll blink, but, but their base is, is worked up. And Hegseth in particular, they're in a frenzy over. And so listen, you can understand, if you're a Democrat, your base is all mad and thinks Hegseth is, is some radical that you got to show your fighting. And, and so they want to go prove to their base. See, we're fighting. We're fighting to stop Trump. You know, look, 9pm tomorrow night, hegseth will be confirmed. And so I think for some of the others, look, Sean Duffy, we ought to take up a vote on Duffy. He was just voted out of committee unanimously. Now, he'll get confirmed next week, but I fully expect I'm gonna go to the Senate floor to borrow and try to schedule Sean Duffy's vote immediately. And I expect the Democrats to object just because they want to drag it out, they want to slow it down. You know, it was interesting right at the beginning, actually, before Trump was sworn in, one of the senior members of his inner circle called me and said, look, Ted, we want to move super fast. We want to get every Cabinet nominee confirmed on January 20th. And I kind of laughed and said, well, look, I understand you want that. That's not going to happen. And they were like, why? I don't understand why. And I said, well, okay, so there's this thing called the Senate and the Senate has rules. And he said, so what? We want them now, we need them now, now, now. And I said, well, I understand that and I think the Republicans would agree with you and would do everything we could to accelerate it. But half the Senate are Democrats and Chuck Schumer doesn't want your Cabinet nominees confirmed. Neither do most of the Democrats. And so they're going to use procedural mechanisms to delay confirmation. And to be fair, when Biden and Obama were president, Republicans used procedural mechanism to delay confirmation, particularly if it's a bad nominee. If it's a nominee, you don't, you're not that concerned about, that's one thing. But if it's a nominee that you think is a terrible nominee, you'll do everything you can to fight back. Now, the way the majority exercises leverage is it's literally about inflicting pain. It's at some point one of the things we can do. So the 30 hours delay that you have on a Cabinet nominee under the rules is actually broken down into each senator has up to an hour to speak. And so you can do what's called call the question, which is you can say, okay, go speak for 30 hours. You gotta get 30 senators up there to speak an hour each. No senator can speak for more than an hour for filling that time. And once you run out of senators, you can call the question.
- [11:09]
Ben Ferguson
So for the next 30 hours, you're telling me that on the hour you're going to have another Democratic senator speak to keep this going?
- [11:17]
Senator Ted Cruz
No, because I don't expect we're immediately going to call the question. And the reason is they have a procedural tool to fight back. So if you call the question, the way a Democrat or anyone in the minority fights back is stands up and suggests the absence of a quorum. And under the Senate rules, if a senator suggests the absence of a quorum, you have to confirm that there is a quorum on the floor of the Senate. Which means, let's say we're doing this at 2 in the morning, we gotta produce 50 senators. And listen, a lot of my colleagues are in their 80s and so getting octogenarians to appear in intentions.
- [11:57]
Ben Ferguson
You're telling me they're not out smoking cigars with you and Knowles, Is that what you're saying?
- [12:02]
Senator Ted Cruz
I think that would be correct. And so look, the Senate rules are built for there to be checks and balances and give and take. And so if the Democrats continue to be deeply obstructionist, at some point, I Fully expect, we will call the question. And I wouldn't be surprised if in the next couple of weeks, you see Republicans showing up saying, we're gonna be here all night. We're gonna have some cots, we're gonna sleep on the floor of the Senate, and we're gonna grind through until you guys stop this nonsense. But I think we're not doing that yet. But to be honest, staying through the weekend, no senator likes that. Listen, I wanna be home with my girls. I wanna be back in Texas. I don't like being in the frozen tundra that is Washington on Saturday and Sunday when I could be in Texas with my two girls and with my wife. And that's.
- [12:53]
Ben Ferguson
That's your leverage. I mean, that's really it. That's the leverage.
- [12:56]
Senator Ted Cruz
And I promise you, the Democrat senators are complaining to their leadership. We don't wanna be here. Why are we stuck here? We don't wanna have to be here. And it's like, well, you guys can go home right now if you agree. All right, we'll confirm all the people, same timeframe. We'll just collapse the time. Okay, if you do that, we can go home. But, like, if we move expeditiously through these, you can go home. And if you want to just be obstructionist, then you're going to be stuck here and it's going to going to really stink. And you're going to have to show up in the middle of the night to cast votes. And that. That annoys everybody, but especially folks who are pretty old. And so that back and forth. And I actually think post Hegseth, like, I was meeting with a Democrat senator today, and I asked her, I said, so are you guys gonna relent at some point? Are we gonna be able to go home and just reach an agreement to move these guys forward? And she said, oh, no, no, no, because on Hegseth, we think we may get a couple of Republicans to flip. And I'm like, yeah, that's not gonna happen. Like, okay, you know, you got two, but you need four, and you're not getting four. And she's like, well, maybe the 51 that voted, maybe they'll change their mind by the time we vote in 30 hours. I'm like, yeah, okay. You know, and maybe the moon's made of green cheese. That, that, that's all right. But. But I think the Democrats right now are telling themselves they're holding out hope for that, which means they'll at least keep us here through Friday night. And then they may blink Friday night. And Agree with, with Kristi Noem. And then Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary, is next and Sean Duffy, the Transportation Secretary. Those are the next ones teed up.
- [14:37]
Ben Ferguson
So if they agree, how fast could that go down? Let's say that they, they, they say we're ready to go home and play out that scenario.
- [14:44]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [14:44]
Ben Ferguson
And you've got a couple lined up. How quick can the votes happen if it's like, all right, let's get the hell out of here.
- [14:50]
Senator Ted Cruz
They could happen in an hour. I mean, Schumer could agree. You can do anything in the Senate by unanimous consent. So if they decide, okay, we want to go, we could tee up, let's say Friday night, 9:00, we confirm Heg Seth, they know Kristi Noem is going to get confirmed. Um, so they could say, you know what, we don't want to wait another 30 hours. So let's, let's will consent to do the vote on Kristi Noem right now. And I think if they did that, Thune would let everyone go home and we'd fly home Saturday mornings, and then we'd come back Monday and move on to Besant and Sean Duffy. So it wouldn't change anything for the Democrats. It would be perfectly rational. But Democrats aren't always rational. And to be fair, when we're in the minority, Republicans aren't always rational. Sometimes you just want to fight if you don't like what the the other side is doing.
- [15:46]
Ben Ferguson
All right, I'm going to regret this question, but I feel like I need to ask it because I know there's other people listening right now that are thinking the same thing I am. Who the hell came up with these rules and how many decades old are they and how often do they change?
- [16:00]
Senator Ted Cruz
So they are many, many decades old. And, and the way it works, they can change. But to change the rules takes a vote of 67 senators. So they very rarely change because you need a big, big super majority.
- [16:14]
Ben Ferguson
When was the last time something like that happened in the rules change where there was that many votes? I mean, obviously very rare, but I mean, in the history has it happened that many times?
- [16:22]
Senator Ted Cruz
So the way rules changes have happened have been different. The way rule changes have happened in recent history has been through what is called the nuclear option. So you may remember this. Back about a decade ago, the Democrats had control of the Senate. Harry Reid was the Democrat majority leader. And at the time, it required 60 votes to move to proceed to a confirmation. And that was true for executive branch nominations, that was true for judicial nominations. And in Fact, when I was a brand new baby senator back in. I was elected in 2012, 2013, I was brand new. And one of the very first things I did is I led the first successful filibuster of a Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel. Chuck Hagel had been actually a Republican senator from Nebraska. I didn't know him. Most of my colleagues knew him. I looked at his record. His record was terrible. His record in particular on Iran had been terrible. He'd consistently voted against sanctions against Iran. And I looked at it and said, this makes no sense at all. And so I led a filibuster and as a brand new senator, got virtually every Republican to join me. And we blocked him. Now, unfortunately, the Republican Party being what it is, as soon as we did that, a bunch of Republican senators got cold feet and flipped. And then they decided to let him be confirmed. So after we blocked him, they unblocked him. But not long after that, Harry Reid exercised the nuclear option to lower the threshold to confirm executive branch nominees from 60 to 50. Now, how did he do that? The rules said the move to proceed to Any nomination takes 60 votes, but any rule, any ruling of the chair. So the way you do that is you stand up and you seek the presiding officer, who could be the vice president or a senator from the majority party, seek a ruling on how many, how many yes votes does it take to move to proceed to a nomination. And the presiding officer will ask the parliamentarian who's sitting right in front of him or her, and the parliamentarian would say, well, under the text of the rules, the answer, 60. And so the chair will say the answer is 60. And what Harry Reid did did is, is say, I appeal the ruling of the chair. Now, any ruling of the chair can be appealed, and the margin to overturn the ruling of the chair is 50 votes. So what happened is the chair correctly responded that it takes 60 votes to move to procedural confirmation. Harry Reid appealed the ruling of the chair, and all the Democrats voted to overturn the ruling of the chair. And the way the Senate operates, once you have overturned a ruling of the chair, that becomes a binding precedent that binds the Senate going forward as a result. And that's called the nuclear option, because it is essentially breaking the rules of the Senate to change the rules of the Senate, because the fact that you can appeal the ruling of the chair means you can change any rule with 50 votes if you're willing to ignore the rules. Well, the Democrats did that initially for executive branch nominations, then subsequently they did it for judges, but not Supreme Court justices and, and, and so. And in fact, I remember when they did that. I remember standing on the Senate floor as they were exercising the nuclear option for judges and lowering the threshold from 60 votes to 50. I turned to Amy Klobuchar, Democrat from Minnesota, and I said, Amy, you guys are going to regret this because the result of this is we are going to see more Antonin Scalias and Clarence Thomases on the Supreme Court because you are doing this. And every Democrat will regret this. And ironically, had Harry Reid not exercised the nuclear option and lowered the threshold for confirming judges from 60 votes to 50, there's no way Brett Kavanaugh would have been confirmed. Neil Gorsuch probably wouldn't have, and Amy Coney Barrett definitely would have. Would not have. And so literally Roe versus Wade would not have been overturned. And you want to know who, who's fault it is that Roe versus Wade was overturned? Harry Reid and every Democrat senator who voted to exercise the nuclear option. And I gotta admit, I told them.
- [20:48]
Ben Ferguson
That when they did it and that was what year?
- [20:52]
Senator Ted Cruz
I think 2014.
- [20:54]
Ben Ferguson
Wow. And they just didn't play the long game. It was that personal or they were that angry at the time.
- [20:59]
Senator Ted Cruz
You know, the Democrats will exercise power and they rarely think about tomorrow. And we point out all the time, look, if you do this, you know, turnabout's fair play. When we get the majority, we'll do it back to you. And they live in sort of this denial of reality that they don't ever seem. You know, I've been In the Senate 13 years, about half the time I've been in the majority, about half the time I've been in the minority. Republicans actually try to focus a fair amount on, hey, we want to do things that preserve the institution because we recognize there's going to be a time in the future when we're in the minority again. And we don't wanna just get completely steamrolled the next time we're in the minority. So we will, we, we will show some respect for the minority. So the institution operates differently than the House. Look, the House, the House majority can do whatever the hell it wants. And, and being in the minority in the House sucks. Cuz you have virtually no power in the Senate. Even being in the minority, an individual senator could exercise a lot of power and influence. And that's one of the things that makes the institution.
- [22:11]
Ben Ferguson
It's interesting. It is really interesting. So your gut here, your prediction, I want one. When will you get to go home? When will they get confirmed?
- [22:19]
Senator Ted Cruz
I think it's 50 50. My gut is we'll, we'll go home Saturday morning. But maybe not, maybe not. Like it's literally 50, 50. They might say Friday night once Hexath's done. Okay, let's agree to speed up dome. And if they do that, we'll go home Saturday morning, we come back Monday. If they don't do that, we'll stay through the weekend. And I gotta say, like, Heidi and I, Friday night, were planning to do date night. We had already planned it and I had to call her last night and say, hey, I don't think I can go. We try to do date night ideally once a week, but we try to do it at least every other week and go out, go out and have dinner together. And I told her I think the odds are very slim that I'm gonna make date night tomorrow. And I think that they're basically zero right now. But I'm hoping that I get to see my kids at least Saturday and Sunday. But it will depend on if the Democrats want to see their kids.
- [23:08]
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- [24:08]
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- [25:36]
Ben Ferguson
All right, let's move to the border because this is a huge payoff and I want to go through because it's been happening so quickly. It is a tsunami of executive orders to secure the border. We are now witnessing the difference in one president compared to another and how quickly things can change. Border crossings are way down. We're grabbing violent criminals now all over the country. We're getting videos of those arrests being made in their rap sheets. This is a full court press by the federal government who's been empowered to do their job on, on, on getting rid of the bad guys in this country. The, the worst of the worst of the violent criminals that are illegal immigrants, and also a securing the border mentality all into one.
- [26:25]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, look, on, on day one, President Trump signed over 100 executive orders. And I will say there is a world of difference between this Trump administration and, and the one we saw in 2017. Listen, in 2017, most of the Trump team had never served in the federal government. They didn't really know what they were biting off. You know, they were actually one member of the Trump family said to me over this weekend, said, yeah, we were the dog that caught the car like it was. They found themselves in the White House and there was a steep learning curve. And I will say, in the first term, the Trump White House made some serious mistakes, particularly with staffing, appointing some people to senior positions who ended up fighting against President Trump every step of the way. This time around, I think it is a dramatically different White House and a dramatically different administration. One of the biggest ways it's different. I think they're much more savvy. This selection of Cabinet nominees, I think, is very strong. I think they're looking for people who are loyal and committed to the President and the President's agenda. I think they are doing a much better job avoiding appointing people who are gonna fight against the president's agenda and try to undermine it from within. And there was a lot of that in the first term. I also think when it comes to the executive orders, that they just. They put in collectively the transition team and a lot of the lawyers working with them, thousands and thousands of hours getting ready for it. And so many of the executive orders dealt with the border. The clearest mandate from this election was to secure the border. And I think these executive orders are all designed to do that, to build the wall, to surge manpower, to go after illegal aliens, to go after criminal illegal aliens, to go after murderers and rapists and child molesters, to go after gang members. And I think you're seeing every Cabinet agency focusing on it to restore the remain in Mexico agreement, to end, catch and release. All of that happened the first day. And remember, this is something that I predicted on Verdict from the beginning, which is that we would secure the border. It wouldn't take a year or even six months, that it would be immediate because the damage done to the border was done primarily through executive orders and just through deliberate inaction on the part of Joe Biden and the executive. And so all of that could be reversed immediately. Now Congress needs to follow up and pass legislation to provide real funding for the resources we need at the border and hopefully to put in federal law stronger protections to stop the next Democrat president from trying to repeat what Joe Biden did. But look, if you compare, it's funny. I had reporters this week ask me, said, well, is it strange that Trump's executive orders and the legislation Congress is working on this year are so overlapping and so similar? And I laughed and said, no, it's not strange at all. We're both acting to implement the mandate from the voters. We're both trying to accomplish the same agenda. And I said, listen, the advantage of executive orders and regulations and executive action is that it's quick, it can be done instantaneously. That's very good. The disadvantage of it is it can be reversed instantaneously. Uh, a great deal of the good Donald Trump did in the first term was reversed as soon as Joe Biden came into office, because everything you do with an executive order, you can undo. And by the way, a lot of Trump's Executive orders were just reversing the terrible Biden executive orders. So executive orders are quick, but they're temporary. Legislation is slower, but it has the advantage of, if you write it in the federal law, it's much harder to change. So it's much more of a permanent change. And so I think the Trump executive orders are trying to accomplish exactly what we're gonna accomplish, or I very much hope we're going to accomplish through passing legislation through Congress this year.
- [30:31]
Ben Ferguson
Let's go through what you think is the most important things that have happened so far and why it's having such a quick impact.
- [30:39]
Senator Ted Cruz
The single most important thing for dropping the numbers is ending catch and release. There's no policy decision that. There's no policy question that matters more than what happens when you apprehend an illegal immigrant at the border. In terms of illegal immigration. If the answer is you put them on a plane and you fly them home, the numbers plummet, and they plummet immediately because virtually everyone who comes into this country illegally has a cell phone. And so they call back home and say, hey, don't come. They don't let you stay. If the answer is what it's been for four years, that they let you stay and go wherever you want again, everyone has a cell phone. So they call back home and says, hey, come on up. The border's open. You get to stay. And so ending catch and release and hand in hand with that is reinstating remain in Mexico. Now, look, reinstating remain in Mexico is a little complicated because that actually takes the cooperation of the government of Mexico. So Trump has signed an executive order saying, we're gonna reinstate it, but the Mexican government has to cooperate for that to work. And that's why Trump has also threatened a 25% tariff on Mexico. That's how he got the Mexican government to agree to remain in Mexico in the first term. And I hope it's how he will get the Mexican government again to agree with it now.
- [31:57]
Ben Ferguson
Well, let's talk also quickly, for people that just don't understand what's happening in Mexico? Mexico's in a really weird and interesting spot internally in their politics. There's so much corruption down there. Is there a chance that we could see a government stand up to these cartels because of the pressure that Donald Trump is willing to put on them, including using things to leverage like tariffs?
- [32:22]
Senator Ted Cruz
Look, very possibly, and I hope so, I will say it's harder to accomplish now after four years of Biden because the cartels are much, much more powerful. Listen, One stat that I pointed out many times in 2018, the Mexican drug cartels were making roughly $500 million in revenue from human trafficking. Last year, the Mexican drug cartels made over $13 billion from human trafficking. That's a 2,600% increase. And so what Joe Biden and the Democrats have done is they've turned these drug cartels that are vicious, murdering, torturing. I mean, they are horrible transnational criminal enterprises that they don't care about human life at all. They commit thousands and thousands of murderers, but they turn them into multi, multi billion dollar empires. And it's had a tragic effect on Mexico. The number of murders and kidnappings there. The rule of law has been incredibly undermined. And Joe Biden, not only has he done huge damage to America, he's done huge damage to Mexico by making the cartels so powerful. So it is riskier now for the President of Mexico to stand up to the cartels. She's literally risking her life because the cartels are more than happy to murder politicians. They murdered a lot of politicians in Mexico.
- [33:44]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, they're good at it. I mean, they take pride in it. That's how they control. It's like, we'll kill anybody. We don't care who you are.
- [33:50]
Senator Ted Cruz
They kill politicians, they kill judges, they kill prosecutors, they kill reporters. I mean, just, it is lawless and terror. And so listen, I think we will get Mexico to cooperate because at the end of the day, the leverage that the President has is so enormous. And I also think, look, Amlo, the previous president of Mexico was scared of Trump, that I think he's got real credibility when he threatens to impose the tariffs. You better believe he's willing to do that. And that I think really incentivizes Mexico to cooperate. Now listen, I think as the United States goes after the cartels, as we cut off their money, as we throw their leaders in prison, as we kill many of the cartel leaders, I think you'll see the cartels being weakened and that over the next four years will make it easier for the Mexican government to fight back on them. But Biden and the Democrats efforts have made the cartels much, much more dangerous.
- [34:51]
Ben Ferguson
No doubt about it. Lastly, I want to get your thoughts on something that was said in Trump's first sit down interview that he did in the Oval Office. He did it with our good friend Sean Hannity, and he was asked about the pardons that Joe Biden gave out. And he made a comment, and I want to get your reaction to it about, hey, he may have messed up because he didn't pardon himself. Take a listen.
- [35:16]
Donald Trump
He heard that I was going to do it. I didn't want to do it. I was given the option. They said, sir, would you like to pardon everybody, including yourself? I said, I'm not going to pardon anybody. We didn't do anything wrong. And we had people that suffered. They're incredible patriots. We had people that suffered. You had Bannon put in jail. You had Peter Navarro put in jail. Well, you had people that suffered. And far worse than that, they've lost their fortunes. They've lost their whatever, their nest egg, paying it to lawyers. And those people. And people said, and they don't even, they wouldn't have even taken most of those people. They wouldn't have even taken a pardon. This guy went around giving everybody pardons. And you know, the funny thing, maybe the sad thing is he didn't give himself a pardon.
- [36:09]
Ben Ferguson
He didn't give himself a pardon. Senator, I got to, I got to ask you your take on that. Is that, is that a foreshadowing comment coming from, from Donald Trump there?
- [36:20]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, listen, it may well be. And we've been been very clear. We've talked a lot on, on Verdict about how the scandal with, with Hunter Biden and the Biden crime family was never about Hunter being a, you know, guy who abuses drugs and has made a lot of wrong choices in life. The scandal was always that the entire Biden family made millions of dollars selling favors from the big guy, selling favors from Joe Biden. It was always about Joe Biden's corruption. And we talked a lot about how the Biden doj, the tell in terms of whether they were being politicized on protecting Biden would be if they fought in the Hunter Biden investigation to protect Joe himself and to prevent any inquiry into his corruption. If they kept it focused on the drug crime or the gun crime or even the income tax crimes that were personal to Hunter rather than examining the corruption. That's exactly what they did. And so I think that corruption needs to be investigated and I think we need to enforce the law fairly, regardless of party. And I got to say, by the way, we predicted on this podcast when, when the we, number one, predicted the Hunter Biden pardon. And in fact, I put the odds of the Hunter Biden Pardon at 100%. We even predicted the date, I said it would be December of 2024. It happened on December 1st of 2024. But second, when that happened, we went on this podcast and predicted, said he's gonna pardon the rest of his family. Well, he did that on the very last day, moments before he left office. He pardoned the rest of his family because they were all involved in the corruption. They were all involved in selling favors. And so right now, the only one with potential liability is Joe Biden himself. And, you know, Trump's right that it's interesting he didn't pardon himself. We'll see if that has real consequences. By the way, one of the results of all these pardons is that Congress can now subpoena the members of the Biden family and force them to answer questions under oath, and they don't have a Fifth Amendment right to decline to answer.
- [38:34]
Ben Ferguson
Real. Okay, so a lot of people don't know that, including me. So explain that a little bit for everybody, because that is big news.
- [38:41]
Senator Ted Cruz
So the Fifth Amendment says that you can't be forced to testify against yourself. Now, that only applies if you have criminal jeopardy. If you can be prosecuted once you've been pardoned, you have no criminal jeopardy, which means you don't have the right to say, I'm not gonna answer that because I might incriminate myself in a crime, because if it's a federal crime, you can't be prosecuted for it, which means if you refuse to answer, you can be held in contempt and put in jail. And. And so it. It has changed. I will be.
- [39:15]
Ben Ferguson
There's a very. Hold on. There's a very real chance that members of the Biden crime family that were pardoned could be asked to come and testify in Congress, and they would be forced to answer the questions for the reasons you just stated.
- [39:28]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yep.
- [39:29]
Ben Ferguson
And if they don't, by the way.
- [39:30]
Senator Ted Cruz
Same is true about Fauci that, you know. You know, Biden pardoned Fauci. That means Fauci doesn't have a Fifth Amendment right to refuse to answer questions under oath. I certainly hope that he's forced to answer those questions, and I gotta say so.
- [39:45]
Ben Ferguson
All right, hold on, hypothetical. You get Fauci in front of you, you start asking him questions, and he just refuses to answer those questions. Is that in contempt of Congress at that point?
- [39:54]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, Congress has to vote to hold him in contempt for refusing to answer those questions, and then the Department of Justice has to prosecute him. I gotta say, I think if Congress voted to hold him in contempt, I think DOJ would prosecute him. And by the way, to be clear, the Biden Department of Justice. Trump mentioned putting Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro in prison. They did that because they held them in contempt of Congress. And that was even aside from from pleading the Fifth there. They just refused to testify. They argued, they asserted executive privilege and DOJ prosecuted them after Congress, after the House voted to hold him in contempt of Congress.
- [40:31]
Ben Ferguson
Incredible. All right, we've got a lot to watch now. Thanks for that. This is why I love doing the show. We're glad that you're back. We hope you make it home this weekend back to the fam and that Democrats don't hold these votes and ruin everybody's weekend with their family. That's for sure. Don't forget, we do the show Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We have a week in review for things you may have missed on Saturday. So make sure you grab that show. Also grab my podcast, the Ben Ferguson Podcast. I'll keep you up to date on those in between days and the senator and I will see you back here for obviously what's going to be a very exciting show, depending on what happens over the weekend. On Monday morning, Roku has what you.
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