← Verdict with Ted Cruz
Verdict with Ted Cruz
Biden Autopen Pardons are Null & Void plus Fighting Horrific Nigerian Persecution of Christians
00:33:41
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- [00:00]
Lisa Booth
This is an iHeart podcast.
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- [03:07]
Ben Ferguson
It is verdict with center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. It's so nice to have you with us. And this episode will also be on YouTube. So if you've not watched us on YouTube, you can do that because many more of these episodes are getting on YouTube. Just want to let you know about that from the very beginning. We got a pack show for you today. Three major issues we're going to be talking about, including Senator Cruz. You are now really diving into Joe Biden breaking the pardon rules with auto pin use. This coming after a bombshell report and there is going to be some accountability.
- [03:41]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, more and more evidence is coming out that Joe Biden was completely disengaged from the pardon and commutation process. And under the Constitution, a pardon or commutation only has legal force if the president makes the decision himself. If a staffer makes it, if somebody else in the White House makes it, it has no legal force. It is null and void. There have been multiple reports about just how disengaged Joe Biden was in this process. And this week, I wrote a letter to Pam Bondi, the attorney general, calling on the Department of Justice to systematically examine the evidence, case by case, of what the direct involvement of the president was in those pardons and commutations and calling on the Trump DOJ to challenge any pardons and commutations that were not specific approved by the president. We'll break that down. We're also going to talk about legislation I introduced this week to protect Christians in Nigeria. Nigeria has seen a persecution of Christians that has been staggering. Just this week, over 60 people were murdered by jihadists, by radical Islamists in northeastern Nigeria. They executed soldiers. They went house to house. This pattern of targeting Christians, targeting Catholic priesthood priests, targeting individual men, women and children is horrific. And my legislation would, would put real consequences on the government of Nigeria and those who are facilitating this persecution put real consequences on them to change that.
- [05:10]
Ben Ferguson
All right. I want to take a moment to talk about personal safety. You guys know I'm pro second Amendment. You know that I've actually used my firearm to save my life when I was a target of a gang initiation. But for many people that are Listening or family members, you. You may not feel comfortable carrying a firearm. You still need to be able to protect yourselves. And in times of danger, you're going to want to have something. And that's where the burner launcher comes in. I have given these to countless family members. It is a handheld pistol that fires both kinetic rounds and chemical irritants to separate you from an attacker. And I'm here today with Josh Sherrard from Burna. Josh, many of us just saw that video footage of the recent mob attack of a man and a woman in downtown Cincinnati. Josh, many of us saw the video footage of the recent mob attack of a man and a woman in downtown Cincinnati, and it was shocking. Can you share a little more about what happened? And could a less lethal weapon like the burner launcher be used in a situation like this to defend yourself?
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VGW Group Advertiser
Absolutely. Like you said, we all saw the videos, and unfortunately, after a jazz festival, a man was attacked by a mob of individuals that just continued going and continued going, and unfortunately, he was unable to defend himself despite other people trying to help. This is one of those instances where clearly these people are looking for an easy target. The trick here is to make yourself a hard target, have a way to defend yourself to facilitate that escape. And that's really where Burna comes in. You know, depending on the legality, you may or may not be able to carry a gun in this case. So you need to have a tool to make sure you can defend yourself. That's legal in all 50 states and make sure you can make it home safe.
- [06:45]
Ben Ferguson
And why wouldn't the victim in this case just want to pull a gun on these suspects? It's a.
- [06:49]
VGW Group Advertiser
It's an important question, you know, it absolutely is. And there's a couple of reasons. One is the legality. Depending on where you are, you may not even be able to carry a gun. Or maybe coming from a private event where a gun may not be illegal as well. And then, two, in order to pull a gun, you need to understand that there has to be a reasonable expectation that there's going to be death or serious bodily injury caused. So you pull that gun too early, and you're likely the one to be going to jail. So in this case, a less lethal tool is perfect. You can be. It can be pulled early. It can be used early to prevent further harm because it's such a reduced amount of force.
- [07:24]
Ben Ferguson
Look, if you want to carry one, I do. I love having this as an option. You can get more information for you or your family members on how they can Protect themselves with a burner launcher. Go to burna by rna.com that's burna by rna.com Again. Burna b y r n a.com all right, so center. I really hope that everybody will take this episode and share it on social media, especially after what we're about to tell you. And it's new information dealing with the auto pin, the, the commutations and pardons that were given out. The very end. They were handing them out like candy. I still think it's got to be a chance. It was the highest bidders, like you need one. Sure. Joe Biden didn't even know about it. And the Senate Republicans are now really getting into this and realizing that there is so much, I would say a fair way of putting it is probably abuse by people that weren't the President of the United States of America. You're now looking at this even more. Tell us what you now know.
- [08:26]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, the numbers are staggering. And I want to read to you from the letter that I sent Attorney General Bondi this week. It begins, Dear Attorney General Bondi, on December 12, 2024, the Biden administration commuted the sentences of roughly 1500 inmates and pardoned 39 others. And on January 17, 2025, the administration issued 2,490 additional commutations, more in a single day than any president had ever granted over an entire presidency.
- [09:03]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, that's the wow moment, by the way. The wow Moment is there.
- [09:08]
Senator Ted Cruz
2,490 commutations, more in a single day than any president had ever granted over an entire presidency. These clemencies were issued based on broad criteria rather than case by case evaluations. And at least some of them were signed using an auto pen of then President Biden's signature. I write to support your ongoing investigations related to these actions and to emphasize my commitment to providing whatever resources you require to continue and deepen them. And the letter goes on to say the fundamental question regarding the use of presidential pardon authority, Article 2, Section 2, is whether there is an unbroken line from the President to a pardon being granted. Everyone involved in the process, government officials purporting to issue a pardon, the person to whom it is being granted, judicial and law enforcement officials, and most of all the American people, should have absolute confidence a pardon was granted at the President's explicit direction. And look, it's long been the Department of Justice's position that you don't need the president to actually physically sign a pardon, but it has to be the president who makes the decision. It cannot be anyone else who Makes.
- [10:17]
Ben Ferguson
The decision, let's break that down even more so people understand how simplistic this is. And it's easy to check this box. What you're saying is somebody communicates, I'll go back to our days in the administration, President Bush 41, 43. Right. They get a, they, they say, yes, I'm going to give that pardon to John Doe or Jane Doe. And then it can be used with the auto pin because it's coming from the President. What we're now witnessing is it's virtually impossible for this many conversations have been had in the final moments of, of Joe Biden's presidency, especially with the cognitive decline which we now all know about. And for him to have this many conversations about this many people, that's where you're just saying red flags all over the place. Is that a fair way of putting it?
- [11:07]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, it's worse than that. In the first year of the Biden presidency, he signed virtually everything. And as the years went on, he signed less and less and less. And so at the end, they were auto penning virtually everything. And that was contrary to the advice they got from the White House counsel. And, and, and what I lay out is, is their public reports that, that call into question whether Joe Biden had any awareness about any of this. And in particular, the letter says Biden officials also say that past presidents have validly used auto pans, even for actions requiring a presidential signature, such as bill signings. The Department of Justice has long maintained that the Constitution does not require a pardon to be signed. And in 1929, the US solicitor general issued a memo saying that, quote, neither the Constitution nor any statute prescribes the method by which executive clemency shall be exercised. They need not have the President's autograph. So that was DOJ in 1929. However, even and especially in those cases, there must be an absolute assurance that everyone involved knows there's an unbroken line from the President to the pardon. The 1929 OSG memo itself states that when a pardon is signed with a president's, quote, facsimile signature, it should, quote, be certified by an official having charge of the records as having been issued by the President or by his direction. These are core constitutional requirements. And leaked emails further show that the Biden White House implemented a process that separated the President from officials responsible for signing pardons on his behalf. They could not note, know if they were doing so at the President's direction, either on a case, by case basis or by following criteria. As a result, emails show officials across the administration struggled to verify that the President, quote, signed off on the specific documents that the people receiving commutations, quote, are who the President signed off on, quote, that the documents accurately reflect his decision or that the President, quote, agreed to the commutations, the number of commutations and the date. And these are emails within the Biden White House. In one email, a Biden official stated that the President, quote, doesn't review the warrants asking how to, quote, handle questions about whether he approved them. And here's what the New York Times reported in July, quote, they also show that the use of the auto pen was managed by Mr. Biden's White House staff secretary, Ms. Feldman. She wanted to receive written accounts confirming Mr. Biden's oral instructions in the meetings before having it used to produce the warrants recording the clemency actions. The email show the aides referred to those written accounts of the meetings at which Mr. Biden delivered oral decisions as blurbs, quote, unquote. The accounts were drafted by aides to the senior advisors who had participated in the key meetings, like Mr. Biden's chief of staff, Jeffrey Zients and Mr. Sisco Siskel. The assistants who drafted the blurbs were not themselves in the room with Mr. Biden. So staffers who weren't in the room with the President wrote written directions directing that commutations or pardon be granted. And. And the New York Times continued to say, this is a quote. Mr. Biden did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons that applied to large numbers of people he and AIDS confirmed. Rather, after an extensive discussion of different possible criteria, he signed off on the standards he wanted to use to determine which convicts would qualify for a reduction in sentence. Even after Mr. Biden made that decision, one former aide said the Bureau of Prisons kept providing additional information about specific inmates, resulting in small changes to the list. Rather than asking Mr. Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited and then ran the final version through the auto panel, which they saw as a routine procedure. The aide said, and here's what my letter says to the Attorney General. These and other reports suggest that Biden Harris officials took advantage of the decline in the President's mental acuity, coupled with the chaos of the presidential transition, to implement sweeping, fringe, progressive policies on crime and law enforcement and to usurp authorities solely reserved for the President, in which he is forbidden to from delegating such an act would constitute a direct and unprecedented assault on our constitutional order. And so I'm calling for the Department of Justice. Look, these records. DOJ and the White House have these records. They've got a complete record of everything that happened. And so what I'm asking the Attorney General to do is systematically evaluate all of them and for any pardon, any commutation that there is not clear evidence that Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. Personally signed off on that DOJ, declare them null and void and pursue legal avenues to to have them declared null and void and to challenge them in court.
- [16:27]
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- [17:23]
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- [17:41]
Senator Ted Cruz
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Ben Ferguson
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- [19:01]
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- [20:31]
Senator Ted Cruz
A new.
- [20:32]
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- [21:01]
Ben Ferguson
All right, let me ask you and I got two different aspects of this I want to ask you about. 1. If you are a staffer at the White House and you're fielding phones, calls from friends, colleagues, people that know how to get in touch with you and you're handing out these commutations or pardons like candy. Is that illegal if you're doing it without the President's knowledge? Okay, so. So for sure that's illegal then. The second question is, as you're asking.
- [21:29]
Senator Ted Cruz
It'S not actually a pardon. I mean, Ben, you could decide today that you want to pardon someone. You could declare, I, Ben Ferguson, hereby pardon Charles Manson.
- [21:40]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Senator Ted Cruz
Now, Charles Manson would not be pardoned. That's very nice that you like psychotic mass murderers. Sorry, Ben, but it has no legal force.
- [21:50]
Ben Ferguson
Examples. I appreciate that, but, you know, there.
- [21:55]
Senator Ted Cruz
Is only one human being on planet earth that can pardon anyone from a federal crime, and that is the sitting President of the United States. A former president. Can't do it. It is only the current president today, that is Donald Trump. A year ago, it was Joseph Biden.
- [22:10]
Ben Ferguson
So. So if. Did I break a law working at the White House in that scenario, and will there be accountability? Or did I just get away with it by literally having Joe Biden's pen and saying he doesn't know about this? But I'm. Because I'm in the White House and I've got access, I'm making it happen. Is there any crime that's been committed by the person giving out the part if it was not authorized by Joe Biden?
- [22:33]
Senator Ted Cruz
You know, it's not clear that there is a violation of federal law. It's not clear that that's a criminal act. If you declare, I, Ben Ferguson, hereby pardon Bob.
- [22:42]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [22:43]
Senator Ted Cruz
You haven't committed a crime.
- [22:44]
Ben Ferguson
If I'm impersonating the President of the United States of America, how is that not breaking some law?
- [22:49]
Senator Ted Cruz
Look, you might make an argument that it is misuse of government resources or essentially counterfeiting or creating fraudulent documents. I think it would be difficult to get any criminal conviction on that. It's not likely to get a criminal conviction. You'd have to prove mens rea. You'd have to prove a guilty state of mind. I think that would be difficult. I think the natural.
- [23:13]
Ben Ferguson
Then answer, to account, to hear about Bob.
- [23:15]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Ben Ferguson
All right. If Bob hooks me up with a job when I leave the White House and sorry, I'm cynical, but I am very cynical.
- [23:23]
Senator Ted Cruz
Look, then if there was a quid pro quo, that's bribery and that you can be prosecuted for.
- [23:28]
Ben Ferguson
If there are.
- [23:29]
Senator Ted Cruz
If you can prove there's a quid pro quo.
- [23:31]
Ben Ferguson
Sorry, I'm cynical center. I'm cynical as can be. And if you're giving out this many pardons, somebody had to get a kickback here for this to make sense. I don't think there's a bunch of do gooders maybe baby, not randomly handing out pardons at a record rate that is unprecedented as you described it earlier, for nothing.
- [23:50]
Senator Ted Cruz
I don't believe that. But, but, but I will say so many of these people getting pardons were not Mark Rich, the financier that Bill Clinton gave a pardon to that by all accounts appears to be in exchange for millions of dollars of contributions from his wife. I mean that is corruption on its face. By the way, Eric Holder was the one who brokered that whole deal. That's one scenario. Most of these pardons at the end, so you had different categories. So Joe Biden, of all the final pardons, you know he signed only one. Do you know whose pardon he signed?
- [24:21]
Ben Ferguson
I know this because you know, I'm astute political.
- [24:27]
Senator Ted Cruz
It wasn't Bob, it wasn't.
- [24:29]
Ben Ferguson
I know who it was. It was not Bob. It was a guy by the name.
- [24:31]
Senator Ted Cruz
Of Hunter Biden, the only one that Biden signed. So he auto penned Mark Milley, he auto panned Liz Cheney, he auto penned Anthony Fauci, or I say he auto penned White House staff auto.
- [24:44]
Ben Ferguson
Somebody did.
- [24:46]
Senator Ted Cruz
You know, I don't know of specific evidence that the pardons at the end were in exchange for a quid pro quo. They weren't like big Democrat money men. They were more number one people like Fauci or Milley or people like the January 6th commission, Adam Schiff, Adam Kinzinger.
- [25:08]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [25:09]
Senator Ted Cruz
And so I don't think I had no evidence or indication that any of those were quid pro quo. I think those are more political and ideological. And then a bunch of these were fringe progressive like just letting people out of jail. And so they were people, they were crack dealers and crack users in jail. So we have no indication that it was to benefit Democrat moneybags as compared to just left wing ideology that said let's let criminals go. I think it was more the ideology of a 24 year old leftist in.
- [25:44]
Ben Ferguson
The White House who said power because he had a pen of a guy that didn't know who he was.
- [25:49]
Senator Ted Cruz
It's look, look, Donald Trump has put up next to the pictures of presidents of the United states. In between 45, which would be Donald J. Trump and 47, which would be Donald J. Trump. He has 46 and he has a picture of the auto pen which is, I gotta say world class trolling. But in many ways that auto pen instead of Hail to the Chief, it was Hail to the bicycle.
- [26:12]
Ben Ferguson
All right, so here's my final question on this, how long does this. How far does this go? Does this go to courts? Does this go to hearings? Does this go to the Supreme Court? Are there lawsuits are going to have to take place if they go after and figure this out. And is that what would happen? Because the people that got the pardons would immediately go to a court and say, no, no, no, mine is legit. Right. I got it. Auto pin signed, but it's legit. You're going to fight. They're not. I'm assuming they're just going to, like, go turn themselves back into prison.
- [26:39]
Emily Maitlis or Jon Sopel
Yeah.
- [26:40]
Senator Ted Cruz
So look, what I'm advocating, and the reason I wrote this is a lengthy letter to the Attorney General, is I'm advocating that DOJ and the White House counsel analyze all of the records and determine those pardons or commutations. That there is the clearest evidence that Joe Biden had no awareness of it. You know, I might start with one of the names that, like, the Bureau of Prison added at the very end. That wasn't even on the initial list.
- [27:03]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [27:03]
Senator Ted Cruz
Because. Because that you could make a pretty powerful case. Okay. Like, Biden had no awareness of this person at all.
- [27:11]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [27:11]
Senator Ted Cruz
And then. And then this is where you would want DOJ to formulate a legal strategy for how to challenge their validity. I might start by putting out a list. It is the position of the Department of Justice that the following commutations and or pardons are null and void because they were not authorized by the President of the United States. Now, commutation. They're shortening the sentences of criminals in jail. The next step might be to send the US Marshals to go arrest someone who had been commuted and released from jail and to remand him again to the Bureau of Prisons to serve the rest of his sentence. Now, almost immediately, that defendant would file a legal claim challenging that and would probably file a writ of habeas corpus. Habeas corpus is Latin for produce the body. And would challenge that he cannot be incarcerated on that crime because his sentence was commuted by the President of the United States. That's probably the legal forum in which it would be adjudicated would be the Department of Justice rearresting someone and the defendant then making the argument, I'm protected by a presidential commutation. And then DOJ would litigate that matter in court. So I would start with picking the best test cases and go there. And I very much hope the Department of Justice does that. It's the right thing to do.
- [28:36]
Ben Ferguson
All right, I want to take a moment and I want to talk to you real quick about what you can do to help the people in Israel. It was nearly two years ago that the terrorists murdered more than 1200 innocent Israelis and they took 250 hostages. Today, it seems as if the cries of the dead and dying have been drowned out by the shouts of anti Semitism and just pure hatred, not just in America, but around the world. And the most brutal attack on Jewish people happened. It happened since the Holocaust and now it's like they're trying to act like it never happened. Now, this is where it is important for us to stand with the people in Israel. It's a movement of love and support for the people of Israel. And this is where I want you to get involved. It is called Flags of Fellowship. It's being organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And on October 5th, you can stand with Israel and the victims proudly. Just a few weeks away. Millions across America will prayerfully plant an Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October 7, 2023 and stand with their grieving families. You can be a part of this movement as well. And that's what I love about what IFCJ does. They're making sure that the world knows there are, there are lots of people of faith in this country and friends and advocates for Israel. They're going to stand with them. You can get more information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement, including your church. There are going to be countless churches around the country. They're going to plant flags as well. So all you have to do to get involved with Flags of Fellowship movement is go to ifcj.org that's ifcj.org stand with Israel on October 5th. It's just a few weeks away. And if your church you think would want to be involved, you can also find out more about how to get your church to be involved on a special Sunday@ifcj.org that's ifcj.org all right, Senator, I want to talk about, we're talking about standing up for people of faith. And and this is a story that has certainly been unreported or under reported at best. And it deals with what is happening with the persecution of Christians in Nigeria. We also just had this attack, as you mentioned in the BE at the beginning of the show where 60 plus were murdered. Talk a little bit about this and what you're doing to stand up.
- [31:13]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, in Nigeria, the persecution of Christians has been nothing short of horrific. And I've spent my tenure in the Senate advocating for those who are being persecuted for their faith, advocating for Christians who are facing imprisonment and torture and murder. The sheer scope of it in Nigeria is staggering. Boko Haram, the radical Islamist group in Nigeria. Since their 2009 insurgency, Boko Haram has killed over 50,000 Christians in Nigeria. Over 50,000. And that's according to a 2023 report from the International Society for civil liberties and the rule of law, which is a Nigerian human rights watchdog. Over 18,000 thousand Christian churches and over 2,000 Christian schools have been attacked during the same time period. And to put that in comparison, the watchdog also concluded that 34,000 moderate Muslims died from jihadist attacks. So the jihadists they target, they target Muslims who don't embrace jihad, but they, especially in Nigeria, target, target Christians. Between 2015 and 2025, an estimated 145 priests were kidnapped in Nigeria. Multiple priest kidnappings have happened this year, including one that Boko Haram carried out in June. The terror group abducted Father Alphonsus. Athena, held him in captivity for weeks before releasing him, and thank God he was unharmed. Athena spent over 50 days in captivity, and he had previously spent six years in ministry in the United States. And violence against Christians in Nigeria has been a horrific problem. In June just a couple of months ago, jihadists killed over 200 Nigerian Christian villagers in a farming community that is 97% Catholic. This is a massive problem, and it's a problem that occurs with the complicity of many officials, of judges, of ministers, of officials in the Nigerian government. So what I did this week is I filed legislation that's called the Nigeria Religious Freedom Accountability act of 2025. And it does several things. Number one, it requires the Secretary of State to classify Nigeria as a country of particular concern. And that would add Nigeria to a list of countries where religious freedom is severely limited. The State Department's list right now includes Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, and other nations outside the western world. And severe violations of religious freedom include torture, detention without charges, forced disappearance, and other flagrant denials of basic rights. Additionally, my legislation would ensure that the State Department keeps the Islamist terrorist groups Boko Haram and also ISIS West Africa designated as entities of particular concern, a classification for non state actors responsible for egregious violations of religious liberty. Boko Haram stronghold is in northeast Nigeria, and it has an active presence in several countries bordering Nigeria. In addition, my bill sanctions Nigerian government officials who facilitate persecution against Christians and other religious minorities. And if the bill were enacted, the State department would have 90 days to submit a report on the Nigerian officials responsible for pushing blasphemy laws and for justifying violence from Islamist groups. This is a very important role for the United States to defend religious liberty, to defend persecuted Christians. And it's been a passion of mine since getting elected to the Senate 13 years ago.
- [35:32]
Ben Ferguson
You know, this is something that really does concern me. It worries me. And we're seeing and witnessing now so much not just anti Semitism, but just anti faith, anti Christian. And it's happening not just around the world, but also.
- [35:47]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well. Well, Monday's pod. Monday's pod focused on how the Biden Department of Justice actively discriminated against Christians and systematically targeted Christians. Now, thank God they weren't doing things on the level of Boko Haram. They weren't. Weren't kidnapping and murdering them. But. But there was religious discrimination. And part of religious discrimination is the Biden administration effectively turned a blind eye to the persecution of Christians abroad. So it wasn't committing these atrocities, but it also was not acting nearly as vigorously as it should be to defend religious liberty abroad.
- [36:23]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, great point there. We're gonna. In this, moving forward, hopefully we'll set a standard that America's not gonna just stand by and allow this to happen. Right?
- [36:31]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, yes. And, Ben, I'll give an example. An example. During the Obama administration, there was a young woman in Sudan named Miriam Ibrahim. And Miriam Ibrahim was sentenced to receive 100 lashes and then to hang by the neck until dead.
- [36:50]
Ben Ferguson
Wow.
- [36:51]
Senator Ted Cruz
And her crime was being a Christian.
- [36:55]
Ben Ferguson
That's it.
- [36:56]
Senator Ted Cruz
For the crime of being a Christian, she was sentenced to that. She was in a prison cell. She had a toddler named Martin who was 18 months old. And she was pregnant. She was pregnant. She gave birth to a little girl named Maya. Maya was born in that prison cell. While Miriam Ibrahim had her legs and leg irons. She was in the mud giving birth in leg irons. Now, during the Obama administration, I repeatedly spoke out for Miriam Ibrahim. I went to the Senate floor, I spoke about Miriam Ibrahim. I called for Sudan to release Miriam Ibrahim from this persecution. Others spoke out. Other foreign governments spoke out. The Pope spoke out in defense of Miriam Ibrahim. You know who wouldn't speak out in defense of her?
- [37:44]
Ben Ferguson
Who is that?
- [37:45]
Senator Ted Cruz
Barack Obama.
- [37:46]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [37:47]
Senator Ted Cruz
The entire course of his presidency, he would not say her name. Samantha Power, who was Obama's ambassador to the United Nations. I have a pretty good relationship with Samantha. And on Miriam Ibrahim, Samantha Power was actually quite good. She spoke out urging Sudan to let Miriam Ibrahim go. I practically begged Samantha Power, why won't Obama say her Name? Look, we can disagree on political and partisan issues, but she's in prison and sentenced to die for being a Christian the entire course of his presidency. I could not get Obama to say her name even once. All ultimately, though, the international pressure became so acute that the government of Sudan gave in. She was married. Miriam is married to a man from New Hampshire. And so Sudan released her and she came to the United States to be with her husband. I met Miriam Ibrahim at a gathering and she was speaking about her experience and speaking out for religious liberty. And I gotta say, Miriam is a tiny woman. She's maybe, I don't know, five foot one. I would be surprised if she weighs even 100 pounds. And she's a very, very small woman. And she was soft spoken. And I asked her, look, you and I are both Christians. Our faith matters to us.
- [39:08]
Ben Ferguson
Sure.
- [39:09]
Senator Ted Cruz
But you know what? I've never been tested. I've never been imprisoned for my faith. I've never been told, I'm going to die. You, we will murder you unless you renounce your faith. I hope and pray and believe I would do the right thing and say absolutely not. But, but I've never been tested with that. And so when I met her, I asked her, I said, look, when you're in that prison cell, when they are threatening to torture you and murder you, when you're looking at your babies, your toddler son and your newborn daughter and you know that they're about to execute you, how did you not lose hope? How did you not give in to despair? And then she looked at me very, very calmly and she just said, jesus was with me.
- [39:58]
Ben Ferguson
Wow.
- [40:00]
Senator Ted Cruz
And it was powerful. And I'm hopeful that my voice then played a part in ratcheting up the pressure to get her released from prison. And so my hope in Nigeria, I'm going to press to get this legislation passed. I want to see the Trump administration designate Nigeria and use pressure and in particular, there is power to pressuring the Nigerian government officials because you know what, ministers of foreign governments, they like to get visas and take their, their wives to New York to go shopping.
- [40:34]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [40:35]
Senator Ted Cruz
And if you sanction the individual government officials who are complicit, who are facilitating it, who are enforcing and prosecuting so called blasphemy laws that can have a real and powerful effect. And so my hope is this legislation is shining a light, will protect the Christians who are in Nigeria and will stop the wide scale of murder of Christians that has been going on in Nigeria.
- [41:00]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah. Amen to that. We're going to keep you updated on this subject. Don't forget we do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday so hit that subscribe or auto download button wherever you get. Vertical Tech Cruise and this episode's also on YouTube as well so you can subscribe there and watch this episode on YouTube and the center and I will see you back here on Friday morning.
- [41:20]
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Ben Ferguson
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