CHECK OUT THE CLAY TRAVIS AND BUCK SEXTON SHOW

Summary

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Verdict with Ted Cruz

Episode: “Check Out the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show”

Date: May 7, 2026

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Overview

This episode of “Verdict with Ted Cruz” is a crossover featuring content from “The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show,” focusing on current political events, national security, and culture, particularly centering on California's political debates, homelessness, and the fallout of COVID-era trust in public institutions. Senator Ted Cruz himself does not appear; instead, listeners get a dynamic conversation led by Clay Travis, Buck Sexton, and a series of guests, including author Jack Carr and legal analyst Mahek Cook.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. California’s Political Turmoil: Culture, Policy, and Debates

[03:54–15:00]

• Governor’s & LA Mayoral Races: “Has California gotten so bad that sanity returns?”

  • Clay highlights California as ground zero for America’s left-right battles, citing an ongoing “radically left” culture and policy direction: “In many ways, the question is have things gotten ridiculous enough in California for some form of sanity to return?” (Clay Travis, 05:24).
  • Los Angeles faces intense mayoral debates, emphasizing law enforcement, homelessness, and urban decline.

• Debate Soundbite: Transgender Athletes in Sports

  • Heated responses in a governor’s debate to whether transgender women should play in women’s sports; most Democrats avoid direct answers, opting for statements like “enforce the law.”
    • “They're not saying, yeah, I want big dudes to be able to smash, you know, smash the volleyball into little 15 year old girls faces without any consequence. They're saying, well, the law is the law and I'm enforcing the law. So, so it's a dodge ...” (Buck Sexton, 07:09)
  • Clay tells the story of the University of Washington women’s soccer team being beaten by a 14U boys’ team as evidence biology matters.

• Energy Policy Hypocrisy

  • California continues to pay the nation’s highest gas prices due to self-imposed limitations on oil production.
    • “Instead of producing it themselves, they bring it in from the Middle East, which costs a ton.” (Clay Travis, 09:37)
  • Buck critiques environmentalism as a “religion” among the California elite: “It’s rooted in some kind of bizarre narcissism that is really widespread and rampant among the Democrat elite.” (Buck Sexton, 11:12)

• Homelessness Crisis

  • LA’s mayoral debate spotlights crime and homelessness, with Spencer Pratt emerging as a surprise “voice for sanity.”
    • Pratt: “They don't want a bed, they want meth.” (Paraphrased, 14:47)
    • “If you go down there, you’ll get stabbed in the throat. They don't want a bed, they want meth. Which really kind of cut through the noise.” (Clay Travis, 14:47)
  • Debunks old narratives: “The Democrat urban politicians … never look at the data … It's drug addicts. You're talking about fentanyl and meth addicts. That is what you are dealing with on people living in the street.” (Buck Sexton, 13:50)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Are the people of Los Angeles insane? That is the fundamental question ...” (Buck Sexton, 17:34)

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2. Public Health Trust in the Post-COVID Era & Hantavirus Scare

[23:48–36:38]

• Hantavirus News and Public Panic

  • Buck and Clay explain a recent hantavirus-related death on a cruise ship – clarifying the disease is rare and not highly transmissible.
    • “There is no reason to believe that it is highly transmissible ... we're all gonna be fine.” (Buck Sexton, 28:13)
  • Clay expresses total mistrust of any new government health guidance after COVID: “I don’t think there’s anything the government could tell me after Covid that I would believe having to do with a virus that is spreading ... We have so broken public trust.” (Clay Travis, 30:01)

• Societal Fallout and Distrust of Institutions

  • They lament how CDC and public health authorities squandered credibility.
    • “So that all went by the wayside during COVID when they betrayed us over and over again.” (Buck Sexton, 31:20)
  • Postulate that if a truly deadly pandemic emerged, America could face “complete societal breakdown” due to political polarization and institutional distrust.
    • “Would you trust the government on what to do? I just wouldn't. And I don't think anybody would really.” (Clay Travis, 31:20)

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3. Jack Carr Interview: Thrillers, Adaptations, and Empathy Through Fiction

[39:58–53:57]

• Introduction to “The Fourth Option”

  • Jack Carr discusses his new novel, inspired by old west narratives and 1980s action media – “It’s a modern take on the old west narrative of the Stranger Comes to Town ... set in New Orleans.” (Jack Carr, 41:07)
  • Emphasizes the impact of fiction: “There’s very few places where you can actually develop empathy and compassion. And one of those ways is by putting yourself in someone else’s shoes ... through fiction, you get to do that.” (Jack Carr, 52:53)

• Hollywood Success and Expanding the Universe

  • Jack credits the success of “The Terminal List” for giving him creative freedom—“complete creative control when it comes to the books”—and discusses the collaborative, often chaotic nature of Hollywood adaptations (45:49).
  • Teases forthcoming projects: another show (“True Believer”) and the possibility of a video game adaptation.

• Casting Origin Story: Chris Pratt Optioned His Book

  • “My friend from the SEAL teams … said, I’d like to give [the book] to a friend of mine ... Chris Pratt. Sent it. He read it and wanted to option it the next week.” (Jack Carr, 48:58)

Notable Quotes

• “If someone wants to improve their life, put down that phone, pick up a book ... particularly a fiction, to develop that empathy and compassion that seems to be missing in a lot of today's world, especially in online discourse.” (Jack Carr, 53:57)

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4. Interview with Mahek Cook: Fraud, Ohio Politics & National Security

[58:46–70:56]

• Welfare & Healthcare Fraud in Ohio

  • Mahek exposes large-scale Medicaid fraud, particularly centered in Somali, Bhutanese, and Nepalese communities in Columbus, OH:
    • “Ohio has spent $1.6 billion in home health care. Franklin County alone … accounts for 38% of that … two zip codes … 40% of that.” (Mahek Cook, 59:30)
    • Presses on lack of accountability: “Our governor came out and said, it's the cost of doing business.” (Mahek Cook, 60:22)
  • Buck inquires on lack of prosecutions; Mahek outlines missing cooperation from state authorities enabling fraud to persist.

• Ohio’s Political Outlook

  • Concern over complacency—though Ohio trends red, Mahek warns Democrats are fired up, putting even Senate and Governor races in play: “The Democrats are amped up this cycle … this is an election of a lifetime for us.” (Mahek Cook, 64:02)

• Iran, Gas Prices, and U.S. Foreign Policy

  • On the Iran nuclear standoff, she advocates for a “maximum pressure” approach, skeptical any real deal will emerge: “I don’t think that they’re going to negotiate in good faith. … I’m hoping that President Trump just uses the nuclear option because that’s what’s needed today.” (Mahek Cook, 65:49)

• California’s Elections: Reaction to Debates

  • Praises outsider candidate Spencer Pratt for “voice of sanity” in LA mayoral debate. Warns of concerted Democratic strategy to replace voters with illegal immigrants.
    • “What Democrats continue to do is redefine English like boys or girls. Now it's, everybody's a Californian, even if you're an illegal alien … They're doing this replacement theory where they're trying to get rid of Americans.” (Mahek Cook, 69:02)
  • Echoes hope for Steve Hilton and Republican gains in California, but persists in worries about illegal voting and manipulated rolls.

Notable Quotes

• “But they didn’t. Our governor came out and said, it’s the cost of doing business. So we’re going to see people like JD Vance actually coming in to save our tax dollars because our government refuses to do that.” (Mahek Cook, 60:22)
• “I think where Spencer Pratt is going is genius. And the fact that Democrats today continue to act like they’re not in control for the last 16 years as they’re burning down California just made me laugh.” (Mahek Cook, 69:02)

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Timestamps for Main Segments

• California Politics, Debates & Culture: 03:54–15:00
• Public Health, Hantavirus & Trust After COVID: 23:48–36:38
• Jack Carr (Author) Interview: 39:58–53:57
• Mahek Cook (Analyst) Interview: 58:46–70:56

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On California Politics:

  • “Are the people of Los Angeles insane? That is the fundamental question ..." (Buck Sexton, 17:34)

• On Post-COVID Mistrust:

  • “I don’t think there’s anything the government could tell me after Covid that I would believe having to do with a virus that is spreading ... We have so broken public trust.” (Clay Travis, 30:01)

• On Reading Fiction for Empathy:

  • “Put down that phone, pick up a book ... particularly a fiction, to develop that empathy and compassion that seems to be missing in a lot of today's world, especially in online discourse.” (Jack Carr, 53:57)

• On California Democrats’ Policies:

  • “They're not saying, yeah, I want big dudes to be able to smash ... smash the volleyball into little 15 year old girls faces without any consequence. They're saying, well, the law is the law and I'm enforcing the law. So, so it's a dodge ...” (Buck Sexton, 07:09)

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a fast-paced analysis of America’s present political and cultural crossroads, with a focus on California as a microcosm for national dysfunction—highlighting issues like the transgender sports debate, energy policy, and homelessness. The panel warns of the long-term damage done by the loss of public trust in institutions following the COVID years, preparing listeners for future challenges—political, public health, and social. Interviews with Jack Carr and Mahek Cook offer expert takes on relevant fields, encouraging both skepticism of power and a return to civil, empathetic discourse.

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Transcript

[Mahek Cook]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Martha Stewart]

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[Clay Travis]

Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show Let me hit you with where we are Iran potentially going to respond to the U.S. proposal on some form of peace agreement in the short term. Marco Rubio is in the Vatican meeting with the Pope. We have continued fallout from the Supreme Court decision ending racial gerrymandering as the state of Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, many different Southern states with racial gerrymanders are on the clock deciding what to do. In fact, Tennessee has turned the entire state red. We will see what happens there as a vote is expected imminently which would make the state of Tennessee a nine zero, Republican state, ending the Democrat seat in Memphis. Lawsuits will also ensue. Undoubtedly. We have got a lot of different stories that we are tracking. But Buck, a couple of different things jumped out to me as California has kind of become the center of the primary season as we speak right now. First of all, we've got the debate that happened over everything surrounding the governor's race, but also we have in LA based debate that's going on for who's going to be the mayor. And I thought we could dive into both of those because in many ways and by the way, buck is in D.C. on a top secret mission. But as as part of all of this, Buck, really the question is have things gotten ridiculous enough in California for some form of sanity to return? And let me play a couple of these cuts. I know this sounds crazy that this could still be an issue, but at the end of the debate in California there was A quick question that I was going to play for all of you, which goes to just how left wing California Democrats are. The question was, should men be able to play in women's sports or not? Near the end of the debate, this is cut to. Listen.

[Buck Sexton]

Under a California education code, you perform in an athletic event, K through 12,

[Clay Travis]

based on your identification by gender, would

[Buck Sexton]

you change that law to match the

[Clay Travis]

IOC that you identify based on your, your birth agenda?

[Buck Sexton]

Yes or no? Very Quickly, we have 30 seconds left. Mr. Mayhan.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, but at higher levels, I would

[Buck Sexton]

let the leagues decide.

[Clay Travis]

Okay.

[Buck Sexton]

Mr. Becerra, enforce the law. Okay.

[Clay Travis]

Mr. Stier. Allow trans athletes to participate.

[Buck Sexton]

Mr. Hilton, I have a wristband that

[Spencer Pratt]

says save girl sports.

[Buck Sexton]

Katie Porter.

[Jack Carr]

Yes.

[Mahek Cook]

Enforce the existing law.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. It was fast there at the end, Buck, but let me hit you with this. I don't know if you saw this story, but I thought it was kind of interesting. And this to me is a great cultural signifier of sanity. Should men. That was a little bit of a confusing way that question was. Was phrased. Should men, I.e. men who identify as women be able to compete in women's sports? And every Democrat said yes. I don't know if you saw this story, Buck.

[Buck Sexton]

Can I just one thing? They didn't really say yes. They, I mean they, they did answer yes, but the way they answered Clay is intentionally meant to say something else, which is, I'll enforce the existing law. Right. That's a way of dancing around it. They're not saying, yeah, I want big dudes to be able to smash, you know, smash the volleyball into little 15 year old girls faces without any consequence. They're saying, well, the law is the law and I'm enforcing the law. So, so it's a dodge is what I'm trying to say. The way that they phrased it. And the whole question was, was kind of was. Was poorly, I think put as well.

[Clay Travis]

Well, even the question, the guy's worried about offending trans people. So he didn't just say, should boys be able to compete in girl sports? Now, did you see this? University of Washington women's soccer team is one of the eight best women's soccer teams in the entirety of the ncaa. That is, they are very talented. They nearly won a championship. They went to the final eight as part of their training. They played a 14U boys team and got smoked. Let me, let me repeat that because I do think facts and biology matters. The University of Women's. University of Washington women's soccer team, which is among the best women's college soccer teams in the country had a scrimmage to get ready for the season against a 14U boys team and they got beaten. I, I mean that is, we're not talking about, this is Seattle area 14 year old boys 14U, which means a lot of 13 year olds primarily. This is crazy. And again, remember I put a million dollars on the table for the WNBA and I said, hey, WNBA women's champions, I'll give you a million dollars if you can beat a boys state champion team of my choosing. And this is in the WNBA players are all saying we're not being paid enough, we're not being compensated fairly. None of them responded. Okay, so I do think that kind of radical answer. Here's another one. We're in the middle of talking about oil and gas prices. California pays the highest oil and gas prices in the nation. And they do that because they actually produce. California does less oil and gas. They refine less oil and gas than they did in the 1970s because they decided that it was the opposite of, of safety for the climate and the environment. And the result, buck, is that they actually import 39% of California oil and gas. Actually I believe is the number comes through the state strait of Hormuz. So instead of producing it themselves, they bring it in from the Middle east, which costs a ton. Here's Katie Porter saying no increased oil production in California at all. Cut 3.

[Buck Sexton]

Would you advocate for an increase in oil production in the state, Western states? Point.

[Mahek Cook]

No.

[Spencer Pratt]

All right.

[Mahek Cook]

No,

[Clay Travis]

no, that's just shoots it down. It's ludicrous. How could you do it? Okay, so this is California Governor.

[Buck Sexton]

So California is a largely, unfortunately because of the dominance of the left there. It's a godless state. So they've replaced God with Gaia, which is like the mother Earth. All the different places around the world all together in one in some kind of harmony. You know, the whole thing is absurd. Environmentalism is the religion of the California coastal elite. It's not true of people who live in the interior. It's not true of people who are in the very shrinking and financially precarious California middle class. People who work a job for a living, for a wage. But it is true of people who have extremely expensive homes either on or close to the water. And so that's why Katie Porter has to say that because the, among the others, because the people who are writing the big checks for their campaigns, they want to have a 10,000 square foot house on a cliff in, over in Malibu or in Bel Air or wherever. And they want to use, they want to have a carbon footprint that is 20 times the American average while thinking that they're saving the world and they're the good people. This has been around for decades now. It's a game that unfortunately never gets old for them. They refuse to see reality. It's rooted in some kind of bizarre narcissism that is really widespread and rampant among the Democrat elite. And so that's why you get these answers on things like producing more oil. Clay. But for me, the craziest stuff was the discussion of, of the homeless problem that came.

[Clay Travis]

Well, this was the LA mayors. So then we flip. So there's two real big battles going on in California and the question is, is sanity going to come for either? And here was the that mayor debate here, Spencer Pratt. This is homeless Spencer Pratt. I Did you watch that show back in the day, the Hills that he was on the time?

[Buck Sexton]

Never one episode. I don't, I've heard of it. I've never seen a single episode.

[Clay Travis]

I can say so it spiraled. This is a background story. It was an MTV reality show. He was a villain 20 some odd years ago. His girlfriend was friends with one of the main characters. I, I bet 10 of this audience watched the Hills at some point. But it was a huge show. Way, way on that, way high.

[Buck Sexton]

That's, that's a 1, that's a 1. 1 to 5% chance or 1 to 5% chunk of this audience?

[Clay Travis]

No, it depends on if you are a woman between the ages of 25 and 45, you 100% maybe 35 and 50, you 100% watch this show Anyway, it was the most popular show for young women back in the day. And Spencer Pratt was a villain. But here he is calling out one of the other contenders. There were three of them on the stage. Karen Bass, the mayor, another woman, and Spencer Pratt. Here he is calling her out. Cut six.

[Spencer Pratt]

Downtown is so unsafe now that they have to serve the food. All the employees have to eat inside. They, they can't risk going out. That's why all these beautiful restaurants are closing because it's so unsafe. So before we require city workers to go back into any buildings, we need to enforce the laws on the street. Councilman Rahman is talking about safety. Yet when animal rescue activist Rebecca Corey came in and said the dogs are being tortured and abused on the streets of Dunhole, she walked out of the hearing. She doesn't care about safety. She doesn't care about anything she's talking about. At least Mayor Bass pretends to care That's.

[Buck Sexton]

By the way, that's a very critical point he makes about the pretending to care. Yeah, almost all Democrat urban politicians go through this whole thing about the homeless, but they never look at the data. They never look at the reality and do things that would make life better for their community overall and specifically for the homeless people. Because Democrats still have this, like, circa 1990 view of homelessness in America, which is, oh, my gosh, someone there was a car accident and they. They hurt their back and they lost their job. At that is less than 1% of people who are homeless. And by the way, that's generally never a chronically homeless situation. That might be a temporarily unhoused or lacking, you know, adequate housing during a period of time. But, Clay, this came up during the. During the debate, the mayor's debate. It's drug addicts. You're talking about fentanyl and meth addicts. That is what you are dealing with on people living in the street.

[Clay Travis]

I just sent this to producer Greg because there's a even more intense discussion about homelessness where Spencer Pratt basically says, hey, if you go down there, you'll get stabbed in the throat. They don't want a bed, they want meth. Which really kind of cut through the noise. We'll play that here for you in a sec, but let me play the other one. This is. Spencer Pratt got into this because his house burned down in the Palisades. And so many people, including many of you that are listening to us right now, had issues, Friends, family with issues there they haven't been able to rebuild. Here he is calling out Karen Bass for the failure to put out the fires. Cut five.

[Spencer Pratt]

First of all, there was one reservoir that was out of commission. He is correct. A million years ago, it was for wildfires, but over the last 30, 40 years, it's been for drinking water. He talked about the winds. That is just completely inaccurate. If that were accurate, then the planes would have been able to fly. And so the winds reach close to 100 miles an hour and the planes were unable to fly. Yes, she. She mentioned me.

[Buck Sexton]

So this is.

[Spencer Pratt]

She's an incredible liar. Everyone on their phones. Google it. 40 weather stations in the Pacific Palisades. It Never went above 40 miles per. She is interrupt you for a bit.

[Mahek Cook]

I have to interrupt you. No name calling. Yeah, but no name calling, by the way, that's.

[Buck Sexton]

That's a. That's a Candy Crowley move right there. Wouldn't say no name calling. Politicians call each other a liar every. Every three seconds.

[Clay Travis]

Also, if you lie Name calling someone for lying is not name calling.

[Buck Sexton]

So that, that to me was, was very obvious what's going on there. But Clay, for, for. Have you seen these videos of him with the hummingbirds? Maybe you're not. It's amazing.

[Clay Travis]

I think you sent one of them to me. I totally thought it was AI.

[Buck Sexton]

I did too. It's real. He has hummingbirds that eat out of his hands, that take the nectar out of his hands. And he's been doing this for a long time. And now a lot of his social media is they killed his hummingbirds and

[Clay Travis]

now he's coming back for vengeance.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, you see that he has this narrative tale because his house burned down. Yes, this is, this is why. This is. I think, yes, he's being, he's very good on the social media stuff. Yes, he's making great viral videos. Yes, he on. He understands that content is politics and politics is content. Now he gets all of that. But his narrative of I'm a guy who is living in this city and they. And because of the idiocy of the people in charge, and by the way, a leftist arsonist, which still doesn't get talked about enough, my house was burned down, my hummingbirds are gone. People lost their homes. Thousands and thousands of people lost their homes. And you're going to keep the same person in charge?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Are the people of Los Angeles insane? That is the fundamental question that he poses to what is, I think by population the largest county in the whole country.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. And so again, we'll come back. I know a lot of you listen in the LA area, listen in California, to me, both the governor's race and this LA mayor's race, it's a real question. Have things gotten so frustratingly bad that outsider candidates, whether it's Republicans like Steve Hilton, Chad Bianco or Spencer Pratt, who I don't even know that Spencer Pratt is running as, as a Republican. I just think he's not a crazy left wing lunatic. Will there be outsider candidates? I watched a lot of that debate. I thought Spencer Pratt did a great job and he just is a voice for sanity in la, which has spent so much money to get awful results. You see the viral clip, maybe we can grab this too, of Gavin Newsom saying he's going to solve homelessness for 20 straight years. And every year, basically homelessness in California has gotten worse even as they've spent huge money. Let me tell you this, it's right now tornado season. And if you are out there worried about tornado season, as many of us are then Rapid Radios can give you a great opportunity to be able to stay in touch with your entire family. It's also Mother's Day. We gave my mother in law a Rapid Radio because she didn't have great reception inside of her house and sometimes it was difficult to talk to her. So Rapid Radios allows her to talk with our 11 year old. It also allows us to be able to get in touch with her if her particular cell phone is not working very well. They work nationwide. Rapidradios.com code radio when you sign up right now you get $300 in free gear with your order, including a tactical radio bag, USB charger, emp, Faraday bag when you need to be heard no matter where or when. Go to rapidradios.com you can join 500,000 other Americans that own a pair of Rapid radios. Go to rapidradios.com again code radio get hooked up right now. Rapid Radios Communication Redefined. Laugh, Learn.

[Buck Sexton]

Hang with the guys right there when

[Clay Travis]

you need them most Clay and buck just preset them on the iHeart app.

[Public Ad Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewal renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer for your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Martha Stewart]

is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family when you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters. The food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep Paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens Countertop prep paper. Available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.

[NFL Announcer]

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[Buck Sexton]

welcome in everybody to the second hour of Clay and Buck. And we gotta talk about it for a couple minutes here. Okay? People are freaking out a little bit and I'm here to tell you maybe for a change it's all gonna be okay. Don't freak out about the hantavirus. Do we say hanta or hanta?

[Jack Carr]

I don't know.

[Buck Sexton]

I hear it both ways. I think it's a tomato, tomato situation. But there is certainly. There is certainly some concern out there because of what has happened on a cruise ship. Let me bring you up to speed on. On what's going on. People are being monitored now and there's contact tracing underway. Oh, I know where you're having all these flashbacks. Contact tracing on my, I may point out, was an absolutely absurd waste of time and money very early on in the COVID clay. Now I'm having flashbacks to like May of 2020. Yeah.

[NFL Announcer]

What?

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

No, no, I was just going to say, since you're having flashbacks to Covid. May 11th is the deadline to charge Fauci with anything according to statute of limitations. I've seen Rand Paul say he's got a big hearing coming on May 13, but I've seen Senator Paul. Maybe we need to get him on next week to ally to. To talk about that hearing. But May 11, I'm seeing everywhere is the date now. Yes. Fauci was pardoned by Biden. There could be questions about the validity of those pardons. This is one where I'm going to sign with you, Buck. The process is the punishment. I don't even care if Fauci were convicted. I think there is ample evidence to indict him and then just make him pay and fight in the court of public opinion and the court of law over whether these indictments are legitimate or not. His number two assistant has been indicted for lying and hiding different emails. And that seems like a very clear cut case. I would love to see Fauci. Just wanted to jump in there. I would love to see Fauci charged

[Buck Sexton]

by May 11 for being science Clay for. For pushing forward the numbers and the data so that I could make sure that we made all of the worst possible judgments about these mitigation measures. You guys all remember that. Mitigation measures having flashbacks.

[Clay Travis]

Very, very negative ones.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. By the way, they mitigated nothing except your enjoyment of your life and your freedom to go about your day to day. To which, I might add, there was a whole debate about contact tracing. I remember filling out and I was the one who tweeted. Clay, as I came, I visited my brothers, who now are Floridians like me. They were just visiting, too, but they were staying for months at a time. Visited my brothers in Florida, in Miami, while New York was in full lockdown mode, basically, and came back and said that this is the closest thing you can experience in 2020 to being somebody who would have left East Germany, got it across the wall and gotten To West Germany, you know, that's what it felt like. Florida to New York. It's very, very real. But I remember the contact tracing. This is all going to tie into hantavirus in a second contact tracing debate. And people kept saying, but it works. And I kept saying for STDs. Do you need me to draw you a chart, Dr. Fauci and co? You tend to breathe in the same airspace a lot more than you tend to have intimate partners that can be tracked for STDs or STIs as they also call them. That was really the argument people were saying. But it worked. You know, it works for syphilis cases.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Cause you know, you can ask somebody. Who do we need to call here? I don't think you can tell everybody that you've breathed near in the last week that they have to go get themselves checked. Point being, it was absurd then. It was a complete waste of time and it should have been obvious to people, but they were playing this game. A highly contagious respiratory virus. You're going to contact trace that hundreds of thousands, millions, tens of millions of cases are going to. The whole thing was absurd. Okay, hantavirus. Why is everyone all freaked out about this now? A person aboard a cruise ship died of hantavirus

[Clay Travis]

last.

[Buck Sexton]

This happened last month. Six Americans disembarked in St. Helena, which is a remote island in the Atlantic. A very remote island in the Atlantic Ocean. Americans are now back on U.S. soil. Three states are monitoring them. None have shown symptoms. Basically, CDC said there was a hantavirus outbreak aboard a ship. People are freaking out. Now. There's been some concerns. Understand that usually clade is zoonotic transmission. So it's animal to human, basically from aerosolized rodent feces and urine. Just saying this is what happens. And it's often when people are clean. It's a very rare disease. That's the first thing. It's a very rare disease. Dozens of cases max a year. I think in the United States. Like 20 cases, 10 cases, something like that. Unfortunately, it has a fatality rate of about 30%, which is like 100 times the fatality rate of COVID actually in reality. So that's why people are so freaked out. But there is no reason to believe that it is highly transmissible. And even if there has been human to human contact, they believe it would only be for people who are in very close confined settings for long periods of time. So as long as it stays there, we're all gonna be fine. What say you, sir? Other than it's another strike for the cruise industry for me. I gotta tell you, I'm not a cruise guy. Not a cruise guy. I can do a boat for a few hours. That's about it.

[Clay Travis]

I actually said this, I think off air yesterday because there's been some talk about us doing a cruise. And I said I would be, you know, if we went around and we had. We did the show from a boat. But I then when I saw this story, I was just thinking, can you imagine if the hantavirus outbreak happened on our cruise and we. We just had to stay, keep doing the show for weeks, trapped on a cruise ship because we have to quarantine? It would be. I would go bonkers. Here's my big concern about this story, Buck. I don't think there's anything the government could tell me after Covid that I would believe having to do with a virus that is spreading and what the experts are telling me that I need to do and what I need to be aware of. I think we have so broken public trust. This is why I want Foushee charged. We have so broken public trust in the wake of COVID that many of you out there reflexively, and I understand it, don't trust the government on anything. The government could say, hey, it's. It's better for you if you get eight hours of sleep and eat healthy. And there's some of you out there that would say, what, I don't know, that I buy. They just broke public trust. And so my fear has been for some time, you just said, what, 30% fatality rate? What if actually there was a deadly pandemic that truly broke out? Would you trust the government on what to do? I just wouldn't. And I don't think anybody would really.

[Buck Sexton]

This is a huge problem that we have now because there are very few institutions that people still trusted in this country pre Covid and the health industry, I should say, the health bureaucracy was generally one of them. Yeah, there was some gun violence tracking that they would do at CDC that was clearly partisan. And there were some things, but usually it was like, we don't want you getting, you know, aids, herpes, or the flu. So here's information for you to avoid these things. And, you know, it was. It was pretty. We could all be on the same team about. We don't want people getting nasty diseases, fatal diseases, or even just things that are going to put them in the hospital. So that all went by the wayside during COVID when they betrayed us over and over again. And to your Point about, you're talking about hantavirus, which fortunately is highly. While it is highly lethal, which is very unfortunate, it's very difficult for it to be transmitted. Whereas you think about something like, this is why I knew that masks people. Like, how did you know that masks were a total joke? First of all, because they were coming on and coming off people's faces all the time. Which, you know, if you wear a raincoat half the time you're going for a walk in a downpour, you're getting wet. There's. It's not like, well, I wore a raincoat half the time, so I'm. No, you're getting wet. It's done. So it was very obvious. But also, if you look at the data, Clay, the CDC had very clear data on measles. And if you're in a room with somebody who has active measles, and you do not have measles immunity, Even with an N95 mask on, your chance of getting measles is after like 15 minutes, is like 85%, you're getting measles. If you're in the room with somebody who. Who has it, that's. It's hypertransmissible. Hanta is kind of the other end of the spectrum. So that's a much better thing. But when you talk about fatality rates, Spanish influenza, which wasn't even really from Spain, but that's a whole other conversation. I believe it really started, actually on American military base, was the latest science on this, I think in Nebraska. I forget where exactly somewhere in American military base. But it's a really bad flu, essentially. Fatality rate, I think on that Clay, was something like 3 to 5%. And it was.

[Clay Travis]

And it was overwhelmingly devastating to young people. Young people. Which was the scariest.

[Buck Sexton]

The second. The second wave of it was killing people who were in their absolute prime of both life vitality. And you would think immune system function. So that's why it was particularly devastating. And so many people died from it. But if we had a. I mean, the real fatality rate, it's funny because they can't. You know, funny is not really the right. You know, hold on a second. Contact tracer. I'm getting some. Some things from people, but I'm. I'm hearing. Clay, people are freaked out about this now. I think we're all going to be fine. It's the bottom line. We're all going to be fine.

[Clay Travis]

I think so, too. And. But again, the thing that I would say is, so this is the. Take a big step back one of the things. And I've got a story here that I was going to share with you in the third hour because it kind of was wild. One of the things that the AI is going to do so much, it's going to create opportunities for people who are really trying to make the world better. I think on a level that has never occurred before. It's also going to create opportunities for people who want to just make the world burn down. And the ability to create new viruses, I think without huge investments is going to skyrocket. And instead of the Wuhan Laboratory, where this and I believe Covid came from, we're going to have a lot more of people doing this. And my concern is no one trusts the CDC now. No one trusts basic health information in the wake of Fauci and what they did to us during COVID if we actually had to your point, a true pandemic that was utterly destructive on a level that Covid was nowhere near. My concern is a lot of people will not trust any guidance that they.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, and I think you'd have. This is where I was going to go with this. You would have full, like societal breakdown very quickly because the COVID And I'm going based off of the Gemini AI overview on this right now. So this is just the first thing that comes up. You know what they say the fatality rate for, for Covid is.23%. But then they say highly variable depending on age, vaccination status, etc. Well, vaccination status, nice work. Nice work, Gemini. On age and health condition. If you control for age and health condition, the act, the fatality rate of COVID 19 for a 40 year old, a 30 year old, you know, man or woman who isn't morbidly obese and doesn't have like severe, you know, like asthmatic issues or something is.0001%.

[Clay Travis]

It was basically, you were more likely to die in a traffic accident by far than you were to die of COVID if you were somewhat healthy. And again, people who died with COVID you had like eight different illnesses that were all going simultaneously. So it wasn't as if the number of people who died with only Covid, I think is infinitely lower.

[Buck Sexton]

How many people did you actually know personally who were claimed to have or who were said to have died from COVID 0. I knew one and he was a. He was a spouse of a frontline health care worker in New York who is a chronic smoker with a history of lung issues. And they put him on ventilators which

[Clay Travis]

was died because they, in retrospect, for people who didn't, you know, when we built millions of the hospital, actually killed

[Buck Sexton]

him is the truth. If they had let him stay at home and giving him steroids to help him breathe, I think he would have been fine.

[Clay Travis]

Yes. So they actually did awful treatment of so many people in the early days of this. But by the way, the other part of this too, Buck, is can you imagine if we had another pandemic during Trump, Whatever Trump said, even people who were on the left and were saying, oh, you can't even go play tennis, you're going to die. Shut down all the parks. They wouldn't trust anything Trump said either. So we would just have a complete, I think your argument, complete societal breakdown if we had another outbreak pandemic style in the next few years. Because I don't think we've worked through the ptsd, frankly, of the COVID era.

[Buck Sexton]

Never forget, never forget this either. Going into the Biden Trump election battle, the Democrat Party line was, we can't trust this vaccine because Trump oversaw it.

[Clay Travis]

That's 100% right. Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

And then when Biden won, it was get the vaccine or you lose your job like that overnight. Totally switched. That's how partisan these people are. They are insane and they're just as crazy now. So let's hope that the rat poop virus does not become highly transmissible because it's going to turn into Mad Max out there real fast. I think the chance of that is extremely, extremely small. So I don't think we're going to have a return of Fauci ism over Hanta. But wash your hands. These days you can buy just about anything you need online. That includes trees and shrubs for your yard or your plants for your home. Fast Growing Trees.com is the website I want you to check out. These trees will grow fast because they arrive perfectly matched with the weather in your area. They've been grown by expert horticulturalists. This company is America's largest, most trusted online nursery. Carrie and I just got a whole bunch of bamboo which looks really cool on our, on our balconies now in Miami. And we got exactly the kind of bamboo that we wanted and it looks great and it's thriving because Fast Growing Trees has experts, experts, experts that will really help you with this stuff. Producer Alley's latest purchase is an outdoor shrub called Cat's Pajamas. Producer Alley. That sounds cool. I had never even heard of that before. Now I have, thanks to Fast Growing Trees. You're learning about your plants, your Trees, your stuff that is growing and green and they're alive and thrive guarantee is fantastic. That's how well they've nurtured your new trees and plants. They specially prepare them for the trip to your home too. Get it done online. Use the experts who bring you the best. Go to fast growingtrees.com find the trees and plants you want, even perhaps cat's pajamas. Use my name Buck as your promo code for 20 off your first purchase. That's fast growingtrees.com promo code buck for 20 off.

[Clay Travis]

It's like having your house at the perfect temperature all the time. Preset Clay and buck on the iHeart app.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We've got Jack Carr with us right now. The best selling author, the creator of the incredible Terminalist series with of course with James Reese is the main character. He's got a new book out, the fourth option, which has just come out now. He's got a new character, Chris Walker Clay. Apparently Clay Travis was the second choice for the protagonist name, but they went with Chris Walker. So you were close, buddy. But next time, Next time, next time. Exactly. Next time. I still, I keep telling Jack that he's got to have a character who's a smug CIA analyst with poofy hair because we'll all know, we'll all know what's going on.

[Jack Carr]

Goofy hair is going to be a dead giveaway.

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, man, Jack, we're so glad to have you on. We got a lot of things to talk to you about including. I'm not, I don't, I'm not trying to, you know, break any sacred cows here. I love the Terminal, this series. I actually think I like Dark Wolf even more. I watched the whole thing on Amazon. We'll get to that. You also wrote and create that, which is a great. I'm a Taylor Kitsch super fan as well as a Jack Carr super fan. So there's a lot, a lot going on here. Tell us first about, tell us first about the fourth option, if you will, which just came out now. This new series, new book.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But first off, hey, I'm in New York. I can't see you guys, but this is a nice setup here. So we got the audio rolling. You got this nice pen right here. We got the Clay and Buck pen and microphone. I mean this is amazing. This is fantastic. Got the news going right here. Can catch up on things. But fourth option, yes, my take, it's a mighty modern take on the old west narrative of the Stranger Comes to Town. So inspired by have Gun Will Travel, which was a radio show first in the 50s, then a TV show in the late 50s into the 60s. And I used to watch that with my dad when I was growing up. And I always wanted to write something that had a touch point with those that old Western mythology that is so American in nature. So that Pale Rider, for those who remember Pale Rider, Shane High Plains Drifter, a little Magnificent Seven thrown in there. And because I'm a child of the 80s and this focuses on police force in, in New Orleans, there's a little bit of Lethal Weapon in there, maybe a little drop of Airwolf, A Team, a little Magnum and the equalizer from the 80s for those who remember that show back then. So all of those things became part of my experience and really, I think imprinted on me at a time when, when I was between like say, 8 and 18, 10 and 20. And I think what you do in those years really imprints on you in a different way than something that you would do at age 30 or 40 when you have a spouse and kids and have to get to soccer practice and pay a mortgage and a car and all those sorts of things, have a job. So all of those things became part of my experience. And this is Chris Walker. And instead of jumping on that horse and riding into town as that stranger, he gets in his Volkswagen Westy Pop Top camper with his Belgian Malinois dog. He's a former SEAL and CIA paramilitary operator and heads to New Orleans to dish out some Old west brand of lethal outlaw justice. So it's. I wanted to set up novel in New Orleans for a long time. Trained, was trained in Louisiana in the SEAL teams a bit. And then on the weekends we went to Bourbon street out there in New Orleans. So there's just a lot of color to that city. And that's the backdrop for the fourth option.

[Clay Travis]

So how do you decide to go and create new characters? You've obviously got the two shows that are thriving. You've already sold a ton of different copies with existing characters. How do you decide, hey, I'm going to go in a new direction?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, it was. It's a risk, obviously, to do these sorts of things. And Simon and Schuster, my publisher, has been with me for everything. Just like the targeted Beirut series. So nonfiction, that's a risk as well. Even some of the things that I do in the terminal of series are very risky. Meaning True Believer, my second novel. I think most editors would have taken out the first third of that book, but I really wanted James Reese to Go on this journey, learn to live again on this journey. As he goes across the Atlantic and then ends up in Mozambique and then uses the skills that he acquired in Iraq and Afghanistan to focus on the anti poaching team in Mozambique there. So looking at this from the fan perspective, being a fan of Tom Clancy as a kid, he started out with Hunt for Red October, then it was into Red Storm Rising and Patriot Games and Cardinal of the Kremlin and Clear and Present Danger. In the early 90s he branches off into the nonfiction side of the house with a guided tour series and a Study in Command series. And then he does some co written thrillers as well to expand that universe. So looking at that model, but applying it to obviously a 2026 type a time frame, it was just something I could do to explore other characters outside the James Reese terminalist universe. And this is the first one in what will hopefully be many different characters and universes that I create over the years. But this is the first one and if, if pre orders are any indication, it's. It's looking pretty good.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, well, absolutely. We're speaking of Jack Carr. The fourth option is his latest and you know, we're excited for it. I've got it, I've got it at home and I've got a whole bunch of. I've basically got a Jack Carr shelf.

[Jack Carr]

You're awesome.

[Buck Sexton]

It's funny too, because if I did it alphabetically, you'd be near all my old Tom Clancy books. You mentioned Tom Clancy. Jack. He's the reason I joined the CIA. The whole Jack Ryan character, 9, 11 happens. I'm like, I could be an analyst. That guy was an analyst. So these books can have profound effect on people. But you know, one thing I remember my, one of my other childhood author favorites saying Michael Crichton was one of the great things about the success he had had, which is similar to you, just a whole series of books that, that people, that the readership loves is that it creates the space and the access for him to do what he wants to like create what he wants to create and get made what he wants to get made. You're in that space right now, which I think is just a dream. Like getting published is a dream for so many people. But then getting the place where you get to make the projects you want to make. And is that what led you to Dark Wolf? Like where are you now in that creative process?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, I mean the. On the book side of the house, it's so great because never. And I didn't know how it was gonna be. When I stepped into publishing, I thought my only kind of expectation was that an agent might be like somebody from Californication or Entourage or Jerry Maguire. That's my. No experience in Hollywood or in publishing, and I didn't know how publisher or agents would be. And if they try to guide your quote, unquote career or give you suggestions on what to go next based on their experience, and I get nothing like that. It's. It's complete creative control when it comes to the books. And I have 100% support from the publisher, so that's fantastic. So if someone hates the book or loves the book, doesn't matter. It's either it's my fault or anyway, it's like it's all on my shoulders. But then we go to Hollywood, and in that space, it is a team sport. 100% a team sport. There's 350 people on set. There's probably a thousand people attached in various ways. And then there are notes that come from scripts and then cuts of the show all the way to the top of Amazon and back down. So. And all those notes need to be addressed. And there are so many places that those projects can totally go off the rails. It's a miracle that anything gets made in Hollywood. It's even more of a miracle than anything good gets made in Hollywood, so. Because there's just so many opportunities for things to go off the rails. But it is also so much fun to be able to create something like a Dark Wolf because of the success of the Terminal List. So that opens doors because obviously Amazon has the data. They know who's watching. They can look at the reviews. In the case of the Terminal List, that was audience reviews. The critics weren't. Weren't too fond of it. But Dark Wolf, both critics and the audience score was. Was up there. So as long as you keep hitting, you know, keep hitting, hitting it. Not. Not out of the park, maybe you don't have to. But we did with the case of the Terminal List, and that opened a lot of doors, allowed us to do Dark Wolf, which was really cool. Focus, make it make a espionage thriller rather than like a military conspiracy type of a thriller. And then now we have True Believer, second book that's coming. I think I can announce this. It might slip up a little bit here, but in the fall. How about that? Should be coming in the fall. I think Pratt or somebody is going to announce it very soon, and it's looking great. So we filmed that in Toronto, in South Africa, and Morocco. And it is an awesome looking show. So fired up to get that out there too.

[Clay Travis]

When you write the books, do you have an idea of who might play them in a television or movie adaptation in the back of your mind as you're writing it? You got Chris Pratt, who most people know, Taylor Kitsch. You mentioned Texas Forever. I don't know if Buck signs off on this, but on air, meaning broadcast television drama. I'm not sure that Friday Night Lights has any competitor. I think it's the greatest on air drama that's ever been made. Now, I'm a little bit biased because I love sports and football, but the Tim Riggins character that Taylor Kitsch played is one of the greatest certainly in television history. Are you envisioning that at all as you work through the process? Oh, these guys could make sense. And how do you go about finding these guys? Do you recruit them? Do you, do they reach out to you? How do you end up with such big time stars? And what are these dudes like? I'm just kind of fascinated by how this all comes together.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, I think, I don't think there's a model for it. But now people are reaching out to us because they're hearing about what our sets are like and how different it is from a lot of other Hollywood sets. Meaning we have Chris Pratt at the top, we have Antoine Fuqua up there director, we have Dave digilio is the showrunner. And it's such a positive environment and they're so encouraging and they want to see everybody, no matter what department they're working in, make it to that next level. So people are now hearing about that and wanting to be part of the show. So that's, that's pretty cool. And also it has the track record of success. So there's that piece of it. But for Chris Pratt, being a child of the 80s, I wrote my first line for the Terminal list in December of 2014. And of course I wrote that first line and then I stopped, put my, put my pen down and thought, who's going to star in this masterpiece? Oh, Chris Pratt. He was just in this movie called Zero Dark Thirty. So I got to see him change from Andy Dwyer on Parks and Rec into this Navy seal. Ah, this guy needs to do this for his career. It'll be very helpful for him if he does this. And then I continued writing. And then of course he does Guardians of the Galaxy and Jurassic World and all these things become an 8, becomes an A list star. But my friend who from the SEAL teams, he calls Me, out of the blue in November of 2017, so six or seven months before the book comes out. And I look at my phone and. And pick it up, and he says, hey, this is Jared Shaw. Do you remember me? And I said, of course, Jared. And he said, you remember what you did for me in the SEAL teams? And I said, no. And he said, you're the only person that sat me down in your office, talked to me about getting out of the military, introduced me to people in the private sector. You followed up with me. No one else did that. I sincerely appreciated it. I've always wanted to thank you. And I said, no problem. And he said, I heard you have a book coming out. And I said, yeah, it's coming out in a few months. And he says, well, I'd like to give one to a friend of mine, if that's okay. And I said, sure. Who's that? And he said, chris Pratt. So I was like, well, this is very convenient for me, and sent it to Chris Pratt. He read it and wanted to option it the next week. So I don't think that's the normal way that these things go down, but it's. It certainly was what was handy that. That. The Jared, that was awesome.

[Buck Sexton]

That's amazing. By the way, can I ask you. It's funny too. Clay and I think also agree if I was writing like a thriller, Navy seal, CIA thing, of course, starring the analyst who writes really good papers about what's going on in the scary places. But if I were doing that, Chris Pratt and Taylor Kitsch would be like two of the first guys who would come to mind. So Clay and I, we both co sign on that. That's just so cool that. That you managed to pull that off. And it's been such a success. I have a nerdy question, though, to ask you guys. Go get the fourth option. I know every time we have Jack on, Jack Carr with this now, people like, I love his stuff. I'm like, yeah, that's why we have him on. So go buy his. Go buy the latest. The fourth option. Get ready for the one in the fall. If you haven't seen Dark Wolf on Amazon prime, go check that out. I've seen the whole thing. It's awesome. I love the beginning stuff, by the way, in Iraq reminded me of Mosul 2007 in a big way. So that's a whole other thing. Like, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is this. You know, because you have people that really know this stuff, like you, Jack, who are writing it. Sorry, I almost lost my train of thought. But I was going to say my nerdy question for you is video game. Has that been something you've considered as an expansion of the franchise? Kind of like a Tom Clanty, Splinter Cell, Seal Team 6, you know, or Rainbow 6, rather. Is that in the conversation at all?

[Jack Carr]

It is. Let's say that's in the conversation. Of course, from the fan perspective, I was very aware that Tom Clancy did these things as he continued to expand his readership and his audience. So actually right now there are some talks going on, but of course I don't want to. Don't want to ruin it or jinx it, but you know, the odds of something like, who knows? But yes, it's in the conversation. How about that?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, Clay, you know, some of those. Some of those first shooter franchises are multi billion dollar franchises. So it's a big. It's big business.

[Clay Travis]

Big. Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

It'd be amazing to see a terminal list. All right. I had a feeling it might be in there. I don't want to get. Get ahead of us. That would be really cool, too.

[Jack Carr]

That would be fun.

[Clay Travis]

No, and my kids play those games all the time, Buck. The crazy things are the updates, the skins, you know, the outfits that you can wear, the guns that you can have, all that different stuff. Jack, one more time. Book title. When's it going to be out? Where can people find it?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, yeah, the fourth option. And it comes out May 12th in audio. And that' read by Ray Porter, who's an incredible narrator. Ebook also. And then there's Book tour. It's coming out if anybody wants to stop by and say hi. And I love Book Tour because you get to shake somebody's hand, look them in the eye and thank them for their support. Really. And a lot of times people come through and they say that. I haven't read a book since it was assigned to me in high school. I found these. I love them. And here's my son who's reading it too, and he's in junior high or high school. And it's just so cool to try to create new readers because there's very few places where you can actually develop empathy and compassion. And one of those ways is by putting yourself in someone else's shoes. So in the pages of a thriller, in the pages of a novel. So through fiction, you get to do that. And really scrolling on social media and looking at those comments or making those comments does the opposite. It seems to develop the opposite attribute. So I try to encourage people to read as much as they possibly can. If someone wants to improve their life, put down that phone, pick up a book, dive into the pages, particularly a fiction, to develop that empathy and compassion that seems to be missing in a lot of today's world, especially in online discourse.

[Clay Travis]

Amen. Look, we were both big readers here. We appreciate the time, congrats on all the success, and we look forward to hearing more different, awesome things as you continue to expand your horizon.

[Jack Carr]

Oh, thanks so much. I love talking to you guys, Appreciate all you do and hopefully I'll see you both in person soon.

[Buck Sexton]

Amen. Thank you.

[Jack Carr]

Take care.

[Clay Travis]

Check out all of the success in the books that he's got out there. And I want to tell you, look, as it's coming into the storm season, right, lots of thunderstorms starting to circle around, maybe some hail storms, wind damage. How good a shape is your roof in? You don't like to worry about it. You don't necessarily go up and walk around and look at it that often. But it's not a mystery. Roofs often create huge issues for homes, and right now you can get Erie Home to come out. They'll inspect your roof for any problems free of charge with a 25 point inspection plan they've developed over many years in business. If your roof needs a replacement, Erie Home offers all kinds of options, including newer metal materials made to mimic the look of your current roof. Whether that's dimensional shingles, wood shake, barrel tiles, your new roof will look great, last up to two to three times longer than traditional shingle roofs with proper care and maintenance. Your new roof from Erie Home comes with a 50 year transferable warranty, so if you sell your home, you're providing even more value in the sales process. Schedule your free [e-mail] clay today and get a discount off the installation price. That's E r I e home.com clay eriehome.com clay1200 dollar discount when you check it out eriehome.com clay miss the show While you're on the go, wind down your day with the Daily Review podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Martha Stewart]

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[NFL Announcer]

The wait is almost over. Get ready for the NFL season with a highly anticipated 2026 NFL schedule release. Every rivalry, every rematch and every rookie debut with matchups locked and kickoffs confirmed. Be there for every can't miss moment. The full NFL schedule release coming in May. Get all the [e-mail] schedulerelease.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age.

[Mahek Cook]

Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show Mahek Cook with us now, Senior National Security and Legal Analyst for the Daily Signal. She's done a ton of work in the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of Ohio. You probably have seen her on television a decent amount. And let's kind of dive right in off the top Here, the Ohio fraud story. You, you worked on this. Some of the numbers coming out on it are unbelievable. What should we know about that investigation and how commonplace at this point should we consider health care fraud like this to be if it's taking place in a red state like Ohio, too?

[Mahek Cook]

Clay, thank you so much for having me on. Look, this was the tip of the spear. When you saw in Minnesota what was happening, I immediately knew anytime you have a welfare program, there's going to be fraud because government is so complacent. Let me tell you, in Ohio, back in December, I started knocking on doors and asking home health care questions. The same place that the Daily Wire went and I uncovered millions of dollars of fraud. Whistleblowers were coming to me. These are people in the industry, doctors that were being forced to rubber stamp paperwork for Somalian, Bhutanese and Nepali community, all saying, we want home health care services. So it's hidden, right? It's behind a door. You don't really know what's happening. But most of these patients never need needed home health care. So the doctor said no. So they started threatening them. They started pushing for other doctors to rubber stamp it. I'm going to give you a statistic that's going to shock you right now. Ohio has spent $1.6 billion in home health care. Franklin county alone, Columbus, Ohio, largest Somalian population next to Minnesota, where I live alone, accounts for 38% of that, which is about 6.8 million. Two zip codes, again, where I live, two zip codes account for, out of that, 608 million, 40% of that. So it's about $283 million. At some point, the state of Ohio has to say what's going on in these two zip codes. Mostly owned by the Somali, Bhutanese and Nepalese community. But they didn't. Our governor came out and said, it's the cost of doing business. So we're going to see people like JD Vance actually coming in to save our tax dollars because our government refuses to do that.

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, Mahek, it's Buck. And thank you for joining us here. You're talking about the scale of what seems to be a very broad apparent fraud going on assist a system, systematic fraud, systemic and systematic enforcement against this. JD Vance has been tasked to do this, but that's going to take some time. Financial crimes in particular on the federal side can be somewhat long in terms of the start of the investigation to the actual bringing of charges. Why haven't we seen more deterrence prosecution of this in Ohio? It would feel like this is pretty easy. This would be low hanging fruit for some AUSA to say, you're completely ripping off the taxpayer, you're defrauding the American government and this has got to stop. Why aren't they doing that?

[Mahek Cook]

That buck? It's such an easy question, but this is a loaded question. It's because a U.S. attorney's office or any prosecutor actually needs the evidence. I've spoken to the U.S. attorney's office. I used to work down the street. And they're looking for evidence of fraud. So that lands squarely with the governor's office and the Attorney general, the same places that whistleblowers have gone and said there is fraud happening. The governor's office. Since January 15, his agency has refused to give us the amount of dollars that we're even giving to these home health care systems. So when you knock on doors, most of these people are in the Somalian community. They don't speak English. So I'm wondering how they're even providing services. But the governor's office is not giving information. The only state official in Ohio that's actually looking into this is our auditor, Keith Faber. Let me tell you something. He has also asked for information and the governor's office and his agency is slowly trickling that information. So audits take a lot of time. It's hard to understand what type of fraud is actually happening and how much. But all you need is to knock on a door to realize they're not providing home health care services. They don't even speak English. People are complacent in the state of Ohio and so many other agencies because this isn't their tax dollars. I mean, it's ours. They're just rubber stamping it. They don't care about Ohioans, they don't care about Americans. They want to just continue to funnel money out the door as long as they're paid. That's the problem in America today.

[Clay Travis]

Primary in Ohio just happened on Tuesday. Open governor's race and a Senate seat that is up for grabs as well, featuring a 30 year Democrat trying to come back into power. Sherrod Brown going up against Houston. Who is someone that a lot of people don't know that well. Ohio has been moved very much in the direction of the Republican Party over the last generation. How nervous you're in Ohio, how nervous should people be who are looking at Ohio as sort of a canary in a coal mine, so to speak, for what might happen in the midterms? And how competitive do you think those governor and Senate races will be?

[Mahek Cook]

In the end, I'm glad you asked. I am terrified in Ohio, yes, we're a red state, but we could easily shift back to purple. Vivek Ramaswamy won every single corner in our state. But guess who got the most votes? It was Sherrod Brown. The Democrats are amped up this cycle. They want to make sure that they take the Senate back, that they take the House back, and they eviscerate President Trump's policies. So when I was voting in Franklin county, every single individual around me, Democrat ballots. And this is a problem again. We have a complacency problem in America. Republicans think Ohio is just a red state and we're going to win. Sherrod Brown brought over $100 million the last time against our state Senator, Bernie Moreno. This time, it's going to be much worse against John Husted. And I think Ohioans really need to understand that this is an election of a lifetime for us. And Democrats are going to be pushing strong. And then we have many Dr. Fauci running. You guys saw Amy Acton and what she did, she locked down her state.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, she was like a little. A little Fauci disciple, which is very disappointing. Hopefully, she's not gonna lock it down in the future for some kind of a hantavirus outbreak. So talk to us about national security, if you would, for a minute. I know you have a national security background. As of today, the Iranian regime has not accepted the Trump administration's offer for a full reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. There's reporting from Axios that. That we may have some kind of an outline of a deal to be figured out in specifics later. What do you think about where we stand right now with bringing Iran to heel and getting this situation solved so the gas prices can start to come back down?

[Mahek Cook]

I think we're going to need a maximum pressure campaign. Look, I think Iran should understand the scoreboard that President Trump holds all the cards. We have control of the Strait of Hormuz, which is 90% of the oil supply, but Iran really doesn't have their act together. There are so many different factions that are trying to negotiate, and when you have death to America as your bottom line, they're going to continue to stall. But the problem today is for Americans to realize is we have to start pushing for all of our Gulf states. We have Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, that's actually opened up the airbase. All of the other Gulf states need to get on board. And then China, Japan, India. The fact that India is sitting on the fence when they need oil just as much as some of these other countries. But I think President Trump has put a lot of pressure and, and this is not going to end well for Iran. I don't think that they're going to negotiate in good faith. I don't see this MOU really happening. I think they're stalling and they're hoping that at some point when Trump is gone, a new president comes in and they can continue to build nukes and continue to work on their death to America strategy. So I'm hoping that President Trump just uses the nuclear option because that's what's needed today. Take out their electric grid. Look, let's look at the Strait of Hermuth in terms of putting a plan in place where other countries start to shepherd and to own that area. And then we also need to look at Carg Island.

[Clay Travis]

That would be aggressive. That would be stepping things up in a significant way. How concerned are you about the impact in the midterms of high gas prices? And are you concerned that, that if you step it up, as you suggested we need to do that, that could lead to more significant consequences economically since a lot of people do judge the state of the economy based on what it costs them to fill up their car.

[Mahek Cook]

Well, Clay, you posted yesterday on X that gas prices are lower today than they were a year ago. And if you look at the Obama administration, I mean, we are on par if not doing better. President Trump was able to turn around a 40 year inflation within months after Joe Biden got the heck out of office. So I know that we have an American energy independence here and we need to start getting creative about gas prices because you're right, most Americans don't think about what was happening under Biden or even Obama, but those are the facts. So I think where we need to be is not only accelerating what we're doing in Iran instead of continuing to give them a grace period, but also figure out what else we can do in terms of energy independence. Drilling right here in America.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, two parter here. I don't know if you watched any of the California LA mayor debates featuring the, the candidates that are kind of really, kind of going at it with Spencer being the sane one out there. And then also we had the California governor's race going on. So first part, did you ever watch the Hills? Did you see Spencer Pratt back in the day? This is a question. You're in that ballpark age where I think you may have watched the Hills. Did you know Spencer Pratt before this? This what did you think of the LA debate? What did you think of the California debate? Is sanity possible in terms of voting results in that state?

[Mahek Cook]

So I did watch the Hills. I watched his wife Heidi very closely. And to see Spencer Pratt run from where he was on the Hills to where he is today just tells you that the younger generation can be saved, especially when we're fighting against Democrats. I mean, he came out with, with an epic ad. It's what everybody wants. What Republicans talk about today is somebody who'll come in with options, that superhero mentality. And what Democrats want to do is just burn everything down and assassinate us. But you see that bifurcation. So I think where Spencer Pratt is going is genius. And the fact that Democrats today continue to act like they're not in control for the last 16 years as they're burning down California just made me laugh. But my favorite moment. I gotta talk about the gubernatorial was. Was Katie Porter. Everybody's saying she said the quiet part out loud. And we know that. But I think what Democrats continue to do is redefine English like boys or girls. Now it's everybody's a Californian, even if you're an illegal alien, which is technically legally the right word for these people that are here. But they're doing this replacement theory where they're trying to get rid of Americans. And you both know this. So many people in California have laughed between. I've looked at stats between the last couple years. There's over 400,000 individuals, but they're just replacing them with illegals. So the real question you have to ask is, what are they doing with those voter rolls? Because there is a replacement strategy where they want illegals to vote. I don't think Hermeet Dillon has been able to get those voter rolls out of California. I'll have to check that. But I think that's where Democrats are trying to win every single election by replacing us. And I think Californians have a clear choice. Steve Hilton knows what it means to work hard. He knows what it means to deliver change. I really hope that sanity comes back to California. I'm praying. But I also worry about illegal voters.

[Clay Travis]

Amen. Mahak Cook. We appreciate the time. First time on the show. Keep up the good work.

[Mahek Cook]

Thank you so much.

[Clay Travis]

Look, we had Frank Siller on the show yesterday talking about the fact that the 25th anniversary of 911 is rapidly approaching. And we also posted that segment up at the YouTube page for those of you who want to take a look and hear the story of how Frank came to found Tunnel the Towers after losing his brother, firefighter Stephen Siller. But that's not the end of all the people that have made great sacrifices for sure. And Tunnel the Towers continues to find and honor people heroes like United States Navy Chief Technician Shannon Kent. Her service was inspired by the 911 attacks. A decorated warrior and a mom, Shannon served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. She lost her life in a suicide bomb attack in syria in this 25th year of 9 11. Her sacrifice reminds us of the cost and lasting impact of that day. Shannon left behind her husband Joseph and two young boys. Tunnel the Towers paid off the Kent family's mortgage, giving the family the security of knowing their home is theirs forever. Help even more families like the Kents. We owe a debt of gratitude to brave first responders and those defending our freedom. Your donation to Tunnel the Towers can make a world of difference. Donate 11amonth or amplify your impact with a car or land donation. Go to t2t.org that's t the number two t.org miss the show while you're on the go, wind down your day with the Daily Review podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Martha Stewart]

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[NFL Announcer]

The wait is almost over. Get ready for the NFL season with a highly anticipated 2026 NFL schedule release. Every rivalry, every rematch and every rookie debut with matchups locked and kickoffs confirmed. Be there for every can't miss moment. The full NFL schedule release coming in May. Get all the [e-mail] schedulerelease.