Christian Persecution in Nigeria, Communist Crackdown on Christians in China & Senator Cruz Spied On Week In Review

Summary

Podcast Summary: Verdict with Ted Cruz

Episode: Christian Persecution in Nigeria, Communist Crackdown on Christians in China & Senator Cruz Spied On – Week in Review
Date: October 25, 2025
Hosts: Senator Ted Cruz & Ben Ferguson
Podcast: Verdict with Ted Cruz

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Overview

This episode dives into three major issues that, according to Senator Ted Cruz and Ben Ferguson, have been largely underreported or misrepresented by mainstream media:

1. The mass persecution and killing of Christians in Nigeria, and Senator Cruz’s legislative efforts to hold the Nigerian government and its officials accountable.
2. The renewed crackdown on Christians in Communist China and bipartisan U.S. efforts to pressure Beijing to respect religious liberty.
3. Revelations that the Biden administration's DOJ, under Special Counsel Jack Smith, sought the phone records of conservative members of Congress, including Senator Cruz, as part of its investigations into January 6th.

The episode’s tone is urgent, critical of media and governmental inaction, and deeply partisan, offering sharp commentary and humor alongside stark accusations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Christian Persecution in Nigeria (02:40–15:38)

Shocking Scale of Violence

• Senator Cruz details staggering figures:
  • Over 50,000 Christians killed since 2009.
  • More than 18,000 churches and at least 2,000 schools burned.
  • Women and children subjected to abductions, forced marriages, slavery, and rape by groups like Boko Haram and ISIS in West Africa.
    “We have seen over 50,000 Christians killed… over 18,000 churches… the government becomes a tool of the persecution of Christians.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 03:59)

Nigerian Government Response

• Nigerian officials have fiercely denied these accounts, labeling Cruz’s efforts as a smear.
  • Oluwole Oke (House Foreign Affairs, Nigeria) called Cruz’s legislation “a deliberate attempt to damage the Nigerian image.”
  • Minister Mohammad Idris and Presidential Spokesperson Baya Onano refuted all suggestions that Nigerian officials side with extremists.
  • Senate President Godswill Akpabio cautioned against “framing the crisis along religious lines” (06:30–08:50).

Cruz’s Legislative Push

• Cruz introduced a bill to designate Nigeria a “country of particular concern,” requiring sanctions on officials involved in or enabling persecution.
• Direct pressure on both Congress and the Trump administration to escalate action, as previous executive action is possible without full congressional passage. “If you’re a local official and... persecuting Christians or turning a blind eye... each of those individual government officials would face sanctions.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 07:48)

Media & International Response

• Mainstream and left-leaning media blamed for ignoring the issue.
• Quoted support from unexpected figures:
  • Bill Maher:
    “If you don’t know what’s going on in Nigeria, your media sources suck... This is so much more of a genocide attempt than what is going on in Gaza.” (Bill Maher, 12:07)
  • Van Jones (CNN):
    “Africa is being overrun by Islamist terrorists, including Boko Haram, with no conversation about that at all...” (Van Jones, 13:39)
• Cruz and Ferguson express outrage at the “double standard” in coverage:
  “Where is ABC? Where is CBS... Where’s the New York Times?... about the mass murder of over 50,000 Christians in Nigeria?” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 15:18)

Call to Action

• Urges listeners to speak out, contact lawmakers, elevate the crisis on social media, and press for both legislative and executive action.

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2. Crackdown on Christians in Communist China (19:28–27:38)

Worsening Religious Persecution

• Recent escalations against the Zion Church and prominent pastor Jin Mingri, whose children are U.S. citizens.
• The CCP “fears anything it cannot directly control, perhaps most of all, faith.”
  “The Chinese Communist Party is conducting another sweeping crackdown on Christians.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 19:53)
• Pastor Jin and 30+ church colleagues have been detained or gone missing (24:06).

U.S. Government Actions

• Cruz and Democrat Chris Coons jointly introduced a bipartisan resolution condemning China’s actions, demanding release of Pastor Jin, and reasserting U.S. commitment to religious liberty.
• Resolution cites 40 years’ worst crackdown on a Christian urban “house church,” and notes China has been a “country of particular concern” for religious freedom every year since 1998.

Strategy & Leverage

• Ferguson highlights frustration: world leaders prioritize trade over rights.
• Cruz insists U.S. should use both “pressure through public condemnation and economic leverage.”
  “President Trump is very effective at employing economic leverage. I think we should do both.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 23:38)
• Urges President Trump to make this a priority in the upcoming Asia meeting with Xi Jinping.

Broader Philosophy

• American foreign policy should stand for religious liberty for all, not just Christians or Jews.
• Not a call for military intervention, but for strategic use of economic/political tools and the presidential “bully pulpit.”

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3. DOJ/Jack Smith Spying on Senator Cruz & Other Congressional Republicans (31:41–46:38)

Shocking Discoveries

• Cruz found out recently that Special Counsel Jack Smith subpoenaed AT&T for his cell phone records related to the January 6th investigation—AT&T refused, citing constitutional protections.
• Verizon (unlike AT&T) complied for eight other GOP Senators and one House Member.
  “It turns out... Jack Smith sent a subpoena to AT&T demanding my cell phone records. And AT&T told him to go jump in a lake.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 32:42)

Broad Scope of Surveillance

• Subpoenas requested: “detailed records for inbound and outbound calls, text messages, direct connect, and voicemail messages.” (33:13)
• Congressional immunity (“speech and debate clause”) cited as a bulwark AT&T invoked to refuse compliance.
• News of the request was initially concealed via a court “gag order.”

Political Implications

• Cruz alleges the effort is politically motivated “fishing expedition” aimed at intimidating and surveilling political opponents.
  • “For the executive branch to engage in wholesale spying on their political opponents... This was political persecution. This was snooping.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 37:47)
• Ben Ferguson speculates this could extend beyond the listed senators, depending on their service provider.

Historical Parallels & Partisan Critique

• Cruz draws lines from Nixon’s abuses to the Obama and now Biden administrations, alleging Democrats “weaponized” DOJ/FBI for political ends.
  “What Richard Nixon tried to do to the justice system, Barack Obama succeeded in doing.” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 45:01)
• Suggests the “wheels came off” under Biden administration—no more pretense about rules, only raw power politics.

Next Steps

• Cruz expects upcoming hearings and promises coordination between targeted lawmakers to prevent future abuses.
• Calls for “real investigation,” transparency, and reforms to “make sure this never happens again.”

Memorable, Humorous Exchanges

• Cruz jokes about being “offended” he wasn’t initially targeted: “I was joking with Sean [Hannity]... I was saying, I’m actually kind of offended. Like, how did I get left out of this list?” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 32:13)
• Light banter about embarrassing texts that could have been revealed if records were handed over: “I just want to say I’m really grateful they did not find the pictures you sent of me of you in a pink tutu...” (Sen. Ted Cruz, 40:24)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sen. Ted Cruz (on Nigeria):
  “It is the most Christians being murdered anywhere on the face of the planet is happening in Nigeria.” (06:03)
• Bill Maher (on Nigeria):
  “They are literally attempting to wipe out the Christian population of an entire country.” (12:07)
• Van Jones:
  “Africa right now is being overrun by Islamist terrorists, including Boko Haram, with no conversation about that at all.” (13:39)
• Sen. Ted Cruz (on Trump-Xi diplomacy): “President Trump has an opportunity... to call on President Xi to release these pastors, release Pastor Jin, release the Christians who are being persecuted, and stop persecuting people of faith...” (25:20)
• Sen. Ted Cruz (on DOJ surveillance):
  “This is going to be the Watergate of the Biden DOJ... Jack Smith was a partisan prosecutor who was drunk on power.” (42:56)
• Ben Ferguson (on surveillance):
  “Isn’t that amazing? By the way, are you sitting United States Senator? Don’t tell him. We don’t want him to know.” (34:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Christian persecution in Nigeria: 02:40–15:38
• China’s crackdown on Christians: 19:28–27:38
• DOJ subpoena/spying scandal: 31:41–46:38
• Bill Maher & Van Jones on Nigeria: 12:07–14:32
• Cruz humor on embarrassing texts: 40:24–41:06

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Tone and Language

• Passionately political, urgent, and direct.
• Frequent use of rhetorical questions, sarcasm, and pointed humor.
• Bipartisan moments (reference to Chris Coons) but overwhelmingly critical of mainstream media and Democratic administrations.
• Calls for activism, investigation, and reform.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode offers a sharp, detailed breakdown of consequences and policy moves around the global persecution of Christians—arguably blending news and advocacy. Sen. Cruz presents forceful evidence and quotes, critiques Nigerian and Chinese government denials, and rails against domestic “political persecution” by the current administration. The episode blends information with pointed commentary and moments of levity, aiming both to inform and to mobilize a conservative audience.

Transcript

[Senator Ted Cruz]

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[Ben Ferguson]

Welcome. It is Verdict with Ted Cruz, the Week in Review. Ben Ferguson with you. And here are some big stories that you may have missed that we talked about. First up, the killing of Christians in Nigeria is happening at a shocking rate. The media and the world not talking about it. We're going to shine a light on it and make sure that you know what you can do to help. Also, there is a crackdown on Christians in China. Why is this happening around the world? We'll give you the details on that and how we can also use our US Government to help stop it. And finally, we now know what the Biden administration was doing when it comes to spying on conservatives, including even more members of Congress. This time they asked for the phone records and text messages of Senator Ted Cruz. It's the Weekend Review and it starts right now. I want to move now, Senator, to something that you've been spearheading and leading on. It's certainly not getting attention in the media, but you're wanting to hold Nigeria accountable for the 50,000. Let me say that number again, 50,000 Christians that have been killed there. Explain why this story is so important and what you're trying to do. And also why is no one covering this as it's been described? To me?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, it is truly horrific. The numbers are stunning. The numbers are staggering. Here are the top line numbers of what we're seeing. We have seen over 50,000 Christians killed. We have seen over 18,000 churches and at least 2,000 schools burned. And the response to this, the Nigerian government is fighting back ferociously, saying this is not happening, this is not true. There's a battle. The Nigerian government officials are getting very angry that I'm calling them out. I want to read to you from the executive summary of the U.S. state Department's 2024 Country Report on human rights practices in Nigeria. And here's what it says. Significant human rights issues included credible reports of arbitrary and unlawful killings, disappearances, torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, arbitrary arrest or detention, serious abuses in a conflict, serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, violence or threats against labor activists or union members significant presence of any of the worst forms of child labor, non state actors committed arbitrary and unlawful killings, disappearances, physical abuse and other mistreatments Boko Haram and the Islamic State in West Africa continued attacks on civilians, military, police, humanitarian and religious targets, unlawfully recruited and forcibly conscripted child soldiers and carried out scores of attacks on population centers in the northeast regions. Abductions by Boko Haram and the Islamic State in West Africa continued. Both groups subjected many women and girls to gender based violence, including forced marriage, sexual slavery and rape. This is what's going on in Nigeria right now. And it is going on far too often with the acquiescence of the elected government officials. Far too often. And in some instances, you have provinces in Nigeria that have on the books blasphemy law and Sharia law. And they will prosecute Christians for blasphemy. They will prosecute Christians for violating Sharia law, in which case the government becomes a tool of the persecution of Christians. And look, it is, it is devastating. It is the most Christians being murdered anywhere on the face of the planet is happening in Nigeria. And so I introduced legislation to require the secretary of State to designate Nigeria as a country of particular concern and to impose sanctions, including in particular sanctioning the individual government officials. So if you're a local official and you're enforcing blasphemy laws and Sharia laws and you're persecuting Christians or you're turning the other way and turning, turning a blind eye to Christians being murdered in mass numbers, the result of my legislation would be each of those individual government officials would face sanctions. And I gotta say, the Nigerian government has been pushing back ferociously. For example, the chairman of the House committee on foreign affairs, Oluwole oke, said the Cruz bill is, quote, a deliberate attempt to damage the Nigerian image. And he insists Nigeria is a very tolerant country. Well, other than murdering 50,000 Christians. Very tolerant other than that. Likewise, the minister of information and national orientation, Muhammad Idris, rejected the suggestion that, quote, any Nigerian officials will willingly, deliberately indulge in the act of siding with violent extremists to target any particular religion in the country. Likewise, presidential spokesperson Baya Onano demanded that Cruz stop his, quote, malicious and contrived lies against, quote, my country. And finally, senate president God's will. Akpabillo cautioned against framing the crisis, quote, along religious lines since, quote, terrorists and bandits target Nigerians indiscriminately, regardless of faith. Now listen, it is certainly true that Boko Haram and other religious radicals in Nigeria are killing Muslims as well. They are killing both, but they are systematically targeting Christians for mass murder. When you've got 50,000 Christians being murdered, that is not accidental, that is not random. And the over 18,000 churches and the over 2,000 schools, they are singling out and targeting Christian churches and Christian schools and burning them to the ground. And the government of Nigeria is not acting with any vigor at all to defend. And to defend the Christians or just to keep them alive.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, to keep them alive. And so now, obviously, this is about letting it shining a light on this. And then you go back to the policy aspect of this happens next. And for people specifically that are listening, what do they need to be doing and advocating for to make sure that we can move this forward?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, the next step needs to be that. I'm pushing for the Congress to pass my legislation. I'm on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, so I'm pressing for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to take it up. That would designate Nigeria as a country of particular concern. Now, I would note the Trump administration can do so on its own. And this is often the case in foreign policy areas where I'll introduce legislation and I'll push for action. So, for example, I've introduced legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. I've done so repeatedly in multiple Congresses. I think it is unequivocally a terrorist organization. In fact, Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine is what they call themselves. And that has not yet happened. But I would like to see Congress pass my legislation. But the most likely way we'll get the Muslim Brotherhood designated is that I will succeed in convincing President Trump and the Trump administration to do so. And I've been making that case vigorously with respect to Nigeria. The same thing is true. I'm going to try to pass the legislation, but I'm also very much making the case to the Trump administration they have the authority to do it now. And look, I want to point out, you asked what people can do. Speak out. Highlight 50,000 Christians massacred since 2009, the single greatest mass slaughter of Christians anywhere in the world. And look, here's how Fox News put it. Quote, a diplomatic battle is being waged between leading Republican Senator Ted Cruz and Nigerian government officials. The Texas senators has warned he will hold them accountable for the reported mass slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians in Nigeria. The officials say Cruz is lying, with one claiming that despite even the Pope publicly calling out the killings, there is religious harmony in the country. But you know what? Maybe you don't believe me. Maybe you don't believe the Pope. So if. If the Pope and I are both wrong, how about this? Maybe, maybe you'll believe Bill Maher. Give a listen to what Bill Maher had to say on this topic.

[Bill Maher]

If you don't know what's going on in Nigeria. Your media sources suck. You are in a bubble. And again, I'm not a Christian. But they are systematically killing the Christians in Nigeria. They've killed over 100,000 since 2009. They've burned 18,000 churches. This is so much more. These are Islamists, Boko Haram. This is so much more of a genocide attempt than what is going on in Gaza. They are literally attempting to wipe out the Christian population of an entire country. Where are the kids protesting this? Thank you.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Thank you.

[Commercial Voiceover]

No one will talk about it, so thank you.

[Bill Maher]

Absolutely.

[Commercial Voiceover]

It's Africa. That's why no one's talking about it.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And they should be.

[Commercial Voiceover]

You can't read about it in mainstream media. It's sad.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So thank you for bringing it.

[Bill Maher]

Well, because the Jews aren't involved. That's why it's the Christians and the Muslims.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Who cares? He is exactly right. And I appreciate Bill Maher calling it out and shining a light on it. He's right that the corporate media does not want to cover it. And by the way, on that same show, someone you know well, Van Jones from cnn, he was on that show and Van Jones is a very left wing guy and he's on CNN regularly. But he commented and he chimed in agreeing with Bill Maher here. Give a listen to Van Jones talking about the slaughter of Christians in Nigeria.

[Bill Maher]

You're talking about young people. A lot of them seem to know one thing. White people did some very bad things in this world and they certainly did. But there are other things to know.

[Van Jones]

Yes. And including the fact that in Sudan right now, which nobody is talking about, you have Arab militia murdering people by the wheelbarrow. Including the fact that Africa right now is being overrun by Islamist terrorists, including Boko Haram, with no conversation about that at all.

[Bill Maher]

I did it last week. Nigeria.

[NFL Network Announcer]

Yeah, Nigeria.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, this is an actual planned genocide.

[Van Jones]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, they really want to kill all the Christians in that country and they are systematically doing it.

[Van Jones]

And the fact that there's almost no response from the global left and no attention from mainstream media is a crime against African people, black people and human rights. I agree with that 100%. It turns out that there's a double standard for Jews. That is true. No Jews, no news. As long as you can put the Jewish state in the conversation, it's going to be a big conversation. If you can't, you get no attention at all. This is a big problem.

[Ben Ferguson]

It is a big problem. I mean, you hear Van Jones saying it. He is Correct. It is a huge problem. No Jews, no news. Like, I mean, it's amazing that this is happening.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, we see the protests on college campuses. We see these angry leftists who are completely enraged about Gaza. The instant President Trump negotiates a peace deal, they go away. Now Hamas is executing Palestinians on the street, lighting up Palestinians on their knees, shooting them in the back of the head and not a peep. These leftist radicals, they are perfectly fine with Palestinians being systematically murdered as long as it's Palestinians, as long as Hamas doing the murder. You don't see a protest, you don't see any calls a genocide. Their protest is about one thing, which is they hate Israel and they hate Jews. And I gotta say, where, where is abc? Where is cbs? Where is NBC? Where is CNN and msnbc? Where's the New York Times? Where's the Washington Post about the mass murder of over 50,000 Christians in Nigeria?

[Ben Ferguson]

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On NFL Network and here our stars come out in the morning.

[Ben Ferguson]

Let's go.

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Week 10 Bajan Robinson and the Falcons take on Daniel Jones and the Colts in Berlin.

[Ben Ferguson]

Fireworks in the fourth quarter.

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Then in week 11, Jaden Daniels and the Commanders touchdown once again. Face Tua and the Dolphins in Madrid. Snooze off. Game on it's Sunday morning football continues November 9th at 9:30 Eastern only on NFL Network.

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[Ben Ferguson]

Now on to story number two. Senator, it's time for us to talk about China. And a lot of people are talking about the economic issues with China, sanctions and tariffs. This subject we're about to talk about is one I hope people share everywhere on social media. This is why we do this show and it's so important. And this is what's happening in China. Cracking down on Christianity right now and is not being talked about enough.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, Communist China has a terrible record when it comes to religious liberty and religious persecution and in particular the persecution of Christians and China has for decades persecuted Christians in China, but recently they've been cracking down and it's been getting worse. So here's how I put it to Fox News. This week, the Chinese Communist Party is conducting yet another sweeping crackdown on Christians, and they're again targeting Pastor Jin and the Zion Church. The CCP fears anything it cannot directly control, perhaps most of all, faith. The United States has powerful tools to provide protection and relief to people facing persecution and violence, and we should use those tools unless and until China releases the members of the Zion Church. And what has happened is China arrested several Christian leaders, including the pastor of one of the country's biggest underground evangelical churches. And that's Pastor Jen Mingri, whose children are US Citizens. Grace Ginn, who is Mingri's daughter, has was very kind but went out of her way to thank me for fighting to release her father from prison. And here's what Grace Jen said. She said, quote, his efforts demonstrate that the world is watching on as the Chinese government unjustly imprisons pastors and church leaders for the peaceful exercise of their faith. Thank you to the leaders here and abroad for all the support and solidarity.

[Ben Ferguson]

And Senator, this is the, I think the part that's so frustrating for me and so many listening is this has been happening for so long and because so many countries do business with China, they have deliberately looked the other way because they're basically saying, hey, we'd rather just get along and do trade and get cheap Chinese goods and actually hold them account for what they're doing to Christians.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, that's happening far too often. And we've discussed before on this podcast the persecution, the mass murder of Christians in Nigeria. Nigeria, the most Christians are murdered for their faith of any country on Earth. And I've been leading the effort to hold Nigeria to account while in China. Likewise, for my entire time in the Senate, I've been vocal speaking out for Christians being persecuted in China. And this crackdown, actually, next week, President Trump is going to Asia and is going to meet with President Xi of China. And so just this past week, I introduced a bipartisan resolution condemning China's persecution of Christians in particular. And Pastor Jen and I was joined by Chris Coons. Chris is a Democrat and Chris is someone who cares deeply about religious liberty. And so we joined together with a bipartisan resolution calling on China to release Pastor Jin, to stop targeting the Zion Church, to release the pastors and the Christians who've been imprisoned, and to cease engaging in persecution of religious liberty writ broadly and of Christians in particular.

[Ben Ferguson]

It really is one of those that is frustrating. And now this comes back to the issue of leverage. Is this going to be enough leverage to possibly see a change here? Because one thing that we've learned is China only responds when their pocketbook gets hurt. And if they don't think we have the political will to stand up for Christians, then they're gonna continue to persecute them no matter what. That's just their M.O.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

They are, but they respond to pressure. They respond to pressure in two forms. Number one, to being publicly called out, to having light shine on their oppression. And number two, they respond to economic leverage. And President Trump is very effective at employing economic leverage. I think we should do both. Our bipartisan resolution is aimed at, quote, expressing condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party's persecution of Christians and reaffirming the United States global commitment to promote religious freedom and tolerance. And it also includes a demand that the Chinese Communist Party respect the human right to freedom of religion and end all forms of violence and discrimination against religious minorities. And the resolution notes the CCP's actions mark the largest coordinated nationwide crackdown against a Christian urban house church in more than 40 years. It also notes that the U.S. commission on International Religious Freedom designated China as a country of, quote, particular concern for religious freedom every single year since 1998. And Pastor Jin of the Zion Church was detained by Chinese authorities. And indeed, that came as nearly 30 Zion Church pastors and workers were likewise detained or went missing across Beijing, Shenzhen, Shanghai, Chengdo, Beihai, Jingxing, and Huangdo. And I apologize for my Chinese pronunciation.

[Ben Ferguson]

We'll forgive you.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

But here's what Grace Jen said about this, and she's Pastor Jen's daughter. One after another, they were also taken, detained like they were saying that they were people outside the doors. Then one at a time, they were taken into custody. This is wrong. And President Trump has an opportunity when he is in Asia, when he is with President Xi, to call on President Xi to release these pastors, release Pastor Jin, release the Christians who are being persecuted, and stop persecuting people of faith. And I think the United States has a responsibility to be a voice for religious liberty across the country to defend Christians when they're persecuted, to defend Jews when they're persecuted, to defend people of faith all across the world. You know, you look at radical Islamic terrorists, many of them target and persecute other Muslims who are not violent. And I think religious persecution is wrong, regardless of who the victims are. And we should be a voice for religious liberty. Now, that doesn't mean that America should go and invade China to try to break the pastor out of jail. But there are lots of tools that the president can use, including the bully pulpit of the presidency, including shining a light and including also economic leverage to try to stop this persecution. And I very much hope President Trump will do so in the coming week.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, you and I both hope that. Final question on this. As you watch President Trump put pressure not just on China, but other countries, it does seem to be that his foreign policy now is if there is a wrong that needs to be discussed, it's going to be on the table front and center. That is pretty different from what we've seen in past administrations where they're like, well, maybe it's not the time to bring that up. Right now he seems to be wanting to bring it all up.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

You're absolutely right. And strong American leadership can stand up to tyrannies. The Soviet Union was terrified of Ronald Reagan. That's how we won the Cold War without firing a shot. And Communist China and our enemies across the globe are terrified of Donald Trump. And that's why we're seeing such major national security improvements right now.

[Ben Ferguson]

As before. If you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from earlier this week to hear the entire thing. I am sure if you've been listening to conservative radio and podcasts, you've heard a lot of talk about gold and silver. Now there are people that ask me all the time, who do I trust? And that is Kirk Elliot, Precious metals. You get more than gold and silver. You get trusted guidance from a team that puts people first.

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Fireworks in the fourth quarter.

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[Ben Ferguson]

I want to get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed. All right, center, so let's start with the big news. Where were you when you found out that you were spied on as part of Jack Smith's investigation into Donald Trump. This clearly is a fishing expedition. And what were you told? Have you been briefed on this? Are you just getting the same intel we are from reading it in the news?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So I found out about this last week. Last Thursday I got the information. And let's back up. A couple of weeks ago, a couple of weeks ago, the news broke that Jack Smith, the prosecutor in the Biden DOJ that was going after January 6th, that was going after President Trump had subpoenaed eight senators and one Republican House member and had gotten their cell phone records. And the eight senators who had been subpoenaed were Marsha Blackburn, Ron Johnson, Bill Haggerty, Josh Hawley, Cynthia Lummis, Lindsey Graham, Dan Sullivan, and Tommy Tuberville. And then Mike Kelly, a Republican House member from Pennsylvania, was also subpoenaed. All nine of them had their cell phone records handed over to the Biden Department of Justice. Now, I got to admit, just over a week ago, Sean Hannity was in town. And I had dinner with Sean and with several of the senators on that list as well. And I was laughing with Sean. I was saying, I'm actually kind of offended. Like, how did I get left out of this list? Like, what did I have to do? I was literally standing on the Senate floor on January 6, objecting and leading the fight. And I had brought together 11 senators to stand together in fighting for an election commission to assess the evidence of voter fraud. And including many of the senators who were subpoenaed were in the group that I'd brought together. So I was joking with Sean, but I wasn't entirely joking. Well, it turns out the reason I was not on the list is apparently all eight of those senators, their cell phones are with Verizon. And the evidence had come out that Verizon had handed over their cell phone information. Well, my cell phone is with at&t. And. And I didn't know it at the time, but I found out late last week that Jack Smith sent a subpoena to ATT demanding my cell phone records. And AT and T told him to go jump in a lake. AT&T did not give my cell phone records. I really look AT AND T is based in Texas. I'm proud of them. They did the right thing. I appreciate that. And they assessed it. They had a subpoena from Jack Smith, by the way. The subpoena called for, quote, detailed records for inbound and outbound calls, text messages, direct connect, and voicemail messages, among other things. So they were seeking that. There was an also an order from Judge Boasberg, who was, you know, this, this left wing judge has been presiding against, over much of the litigation against, against Trump had an order from Judge Boasberg ordering AT&T, you cannot disclose to Cruz that we're seeking his cell phone information for a year.

[Ben Ferguson]

Isn't that amazing? By the way, are you sitting United States Senator? Don't tell him. We don't want him to know.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yes. And so AT&T examined it and they actually, they came to the conclusion now the way it works, so the subpoena just comes and they get a cell phone number. Number. So, so, so the Biden DOJ didn't identify who they were seeking. And by the way, look, the telecom companies typically, if they get a subpoena for, for phone records on, on a number, they typically hand it over because it's usually a drug dealer, a criminal. You have a subpoena that's issued from a grand jury. So, so it, it, they will routinely in a criminal proceeding, handover. Well, it so happened that, that AT&T, even though they just asked for the number, they looked and realized whose number it was. And they talked with their legal team and they said, listen, what Cruz is saying is. And any member of Congress, what they're saying is protected by the speech and debate clause of the Constitution. The Constitution protects the ability of senators and House members to engage in debate, to do our jobs. Article 1 of the Constitution vests all legislative power in the Congress. And in fact, on January 6, it was very literally speech and debate. As I said, I was standing on the Senate floor giving a speech and raising objection. So it's literally the heart of what one does as an elected member of Congress. And so AT and T concluded, listen, we're not going to comply. As I said, I'm grateful for AT&T doing that. But that now makes it nine senators that we know of and one house.

[Ben Ferguson]

So I'm guessing there might be other senators that were also at AT and T. And they probably said, no, we're not going to do that either. Right. It would be. Verizon just caved instantly and said, sure, here's everybody you're asking for. There could be easily, I would say another four, five, six others. Who knows how many outside the Senate. Right. That they could have asked for, that they could have said no to as well. And I would assume there was a lot of people on att.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, and, and look, the, the Biden DOJ also went after, went after the Republican Attorney General's Association. It went after turning Point usa. This was a massive fishing expedition and this was a political persecution. Understand, Jack Smith was appointed special counsel to investigate and prosecute January 6, three days after Donald Trump announced his campaign for reelection in 2024. Literally three days later. So it was 2022. So it was two years after January 6th. They had not appointed anyone. And yet suddenly, when Trump announces his campaign, they rushed to appoint Jack Smith to say, go after Donald Trump because we want to stop the voters from voting for him.

[Ben Ferguson]

Sure.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

But nine senators, that is 20% of the Republicans in the United States Senate. And I gotta say, for the executive branch to engage in wholesale spying on their political opponents and spying with, let's be clear, none of us engaged in criminal conduct. None of us engaged in anything remotely criminal, arguably criminal. This was political persecution. This was snooping. This is hoping someone said something.

[Ben Ferguson]

Here's what I was going to ask you. What were they hoping to find? Right, like you go fishing and, and what, what is the smoking gun in that scenario? They were, they were just, hey, we'll just go after all these conservatives and maybe we get lucky.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, I don't know what they were hoping to find, but they were asking for the cell phone records from January 4th to January 7th. So all surrounding January 6th, I assume they were looking for some modicum of coordination with those who engage in active violence on that day. Part of their theory was the alternate electors that were being sent from various states. So I assume they were looking for, or some modicum of coordination there. But, but this was a political prosecution because they did not have evidence. And so they said, well, let's, let's go through their cell phone records and see if we can find something. And by the way, who knows, if, if, if somebody had sent something stupid text, had a voicemail, had, you know, I mean, people, when you go through someone's emails, when you go through someone's cell phones, when prosecutors go looking for a crime, the nature of a fishing expedition is, let's go look around. You know, there's a book that was written decades ago that's called Three Felonies a Day. And it talks about how the average American commits three felonies a day. That in our regulatory state, things are so complicated, things are so mired in complexity that you can violate. You know, you step on a wetland in your backyard and, you know, there's an old line that a prosecutor can indict. A ham sandwich.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

That a prosecutor goes in front of a grand jury. When a prosecutor goes in front of a grand jury, you know, there's no defense attorney there. It's just the prosecutor and members of the grand jury. And so I don't know what they were looking for. I think they were looking for anything that could stick because this was a political prosecution.

[Ben Ferguson]

Let me ask you this.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And so, Ben, I just want to say I'm really grateful they did not find the pictures you sent of me of you and a pink tutu, because I just think that it's not criminal.

[Ben Ferguson]

League jokes that I send you about the Ivy League snobs. I mean, Jack Smith probably ended up going to one of those places that could have been very bad for me.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I, I, I, it, you know, it, it would have been. And I gotta say, just the typos and misspellings that you have in your text, that alone would have been a little bit embarrassing, too. So I'm glad none of that came out.

[Ben Ferguson]

The good news is they're very hard to decipher when you're, if they're, if it's in front of, you know, Congress, like, it's. What was Ben really trying to say? And I'm like, you're welcome.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I will tell you. Ben, I talked to AT&T today, and I said, look, you guys ought to start a marketing campaign and shift to AT&T. We'll protect your stuff. Like, kudos to them.

[Ben Ferguson]

Verizon.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I, look, I, I don't have a good answer to that. But, but, but, but I did, and I didn't know about this until just a few days ago. So this was when the first news broke. I, like, I was joking that I felt excluded, but it wasn't entirely a joke. And then I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. And, and here we are.

[Ben Ferguson]

All right, final question on this. What is going to be the response from Congress? Will there be any to this? Or is this just old administration abuse of power? It is what it is. We're going to move on. Or is there going to be a way to make sure, like, we have standards that this is not allowed to happen and that people are held accountable for this?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, I think we're going to see hearings. I think we've, we've, we've got hearings coming in the House. I think we'll see hearings in the Senate. I will tell you, the nine of us who were targeted, we're talking to each other because we want to prevent this, we want to prevent a subsequent DOJ from doing this, from spying on their political opponents, particularly in Congress. The executive doesn't have the ability to go engage in spying on members of the opposing party in Congress. That is an abuse of power. It is politicization. And this entire effort. So this prosecution was called Arctic Frost. And I think this is going to be the Watergate of the Biden deal. Doj. I think it is a demonstration that Jack Smith was a partisan prosecutor who was drunk on power. And I don't believe Jack Smith made this decision on his own. I think the decision making goes all the way up. I think it goes up to the attorney General, I think it goes up to the White House. And so I expect, number one, some real investigation and hopefully transparency in terms of who approved moved. Let's go spy on members of Congress. And that, that I think we're going to work to have some real transparency on and that I think we're going to look at real and concrete steps we can take to make sure this never happens again. Because this kind of.

[Ben Ferguson]

Is there part of you that just thinks, like, maybe this has just been going on and never really stopped after, you know, the famous FBI director that had files on everybody and, and people said, well, we won't have that again after, after Jaeger. And, and now it's like they're just like they Wild West. You can do whatever the hell you want to if you're a Democrat and you're in charge. Like, we can spot on the president. We can spawn the campaigns. We can go after people in the Situation Room and entrap them. We can try to go after their business associates and their kids and get them to turn against them. Like, Eric Trump was talking about that on our show the other day. If you miss that show, people should go back and listen to. He's like, they were literally trying to turn Donald Trump's own children against him, threatening that your life's going to be over and you're going to be in jail, so you better get a get out of jail free card. And now it's like, yeah, and we were also spying on senators. I'm assuming some congressmen will come out. Like, who knows who's there? I mean, Charlie Kirk said recently, before assassination, it came out that he said during the campaign, we either win the campaign or I may go to jail. I actually believe now, witnessing what we've seen, that that's not far off from reality at all.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, the left was willing to weaponize the Department of Justice and the FBI. As you know, I wrote an entire book entitled justice how the Left Has Weaponized Our Legal System. And it talked about. It actually started with Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon tried to do that. And you look at some of the, some of the harebrained schemes that the Nixon Justice Department came up with, including creating underground stings to get people, to get people on film taking drugs and with prostitutes to use, to essentially blackmail them and to go after their political opponents. I mean, it was grotesque abuse of power. And when that came to light, we actually saw an improvement. And there were a couple of decades where I think this receded and occurred far less. And then what Richard Nixon tried to do to the justice system, Barack Obama succeeded in doing, he came in as this almost messiah figure. And DOJ Eric Holder as attorney general, you had Lois Lerner at the irs. They began targeting their political opponents, targeting anyone that they disagreed with, and also protecting their friends. During the Trump administration, the first term, they went underground, but they waged war on the president. These are the people that created fraudulent documents submitted to the FISA court in order to try to go after President Trump. They wanted to reverse the results of the 2016 election because they were furious that the American people elected Trump. And then during Biden, they were open, they were flagrant. They were out in the open and they were abusing their power. And I think they felt, felt that the ends justified the means and, and, and anything was, was acceptable. And so I think we need to take real steps. Do I think this has been going on forever and ever? I don't. I certainly hope not. I'm not aware that it has, there is, there, there's ancient history. But it took really, I think under Biden to, to make it just as, as viciously partisan as Wills came up. Yes.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, Wills came off. And no one cared about the rules anymore. Clearly, it's, it's incredible. As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day. You're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to again the Ben Ferguson Podcast and we will see you back here on Monday morning.

[NFL Network Announcer]

The NFL International games continue on NFL Network and here our stars come out in the morning. Week 10, Bajan Robinson and the Falcons take on Daniel Jones and the Colts in Berlin.

[Ben Ferguson]

Fireworks in the fourth quarter.

[NFL Network Announcer]

Then in Week 11, Jaden Daniels and the Commanders touchdown once again face Tua and the Dolphins in Madrid. Snooze off. Game on. It's Sunday morning Football continues November 9th at 9:30 Eastern only on NFL Network.

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[Rodney Williams or Travis Holloway (Wealth Break Podcast Hosts)]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break podcast, a real conversation about finance. Let's be honest, building weft doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

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To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

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What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it?

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[Ben Ferguson]

Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

The News Agents we're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me, Johnson Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents Dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current affairs.

[Ben Ferguson]

And The News Agents USA listening to.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

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