Comey Indicted for Lying under Oath in response to my Questioning plus Sniper Targets Dallas ICE Facility

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Verdict with Ted Cruz

Episode: Comey Indicted for Lying under Oath in Response to My Questioning plus Sniper Targets Dallas ICE Facility
Hosts: Senator Ted Cruz & Ben Ferguson
Release Date: September 26, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Senator Ted Cruz and co-host Ben Ferguson unpack two major topics:

1. The indictment of former FBI Director James Comey for allegedly lying under oath during Senate testimony—specifically, in response to Senator Cruz’s questioning.
2. The politically motivated sniper attack on a Dallas ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) facility, with Cruz providing an on-the-ground account from Dallas.

This episode offers a deep dive into the legal and political implications surrounding Comey’s indictment and raises alarms about the rising tide of violence against law enforcement, tying these events to broader debates about political rhetoric and accountability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Comey’s Indictment: Background, Evidence & Implications

[03:05–15:05, 19:44–37:27]

The Indictment

• Former FBI Director James Comey was indicted on two counts:
  • Lying to Congress under oath in response to September 2020 questioning from Senator Cruz.
  • Obstructing congressional proceedings with false and misleading statements.

The Interrogation Clip & Contradictory Testimony

• Senator Cruz plays the audio from the critical 2020 Senate Judiciary Committee exchange with Comey, highlighting sharply contradictory statements by Comey and former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe regarding leaks to the media.
  • Cruz: “What Mr. McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee cannot both be true. One or the other is false. Who’s telling the truth?” [08:09]
• Both Comey and McCabe swore under oath to opposite versions of events about leak authorizations—a key reason for the indictment.

Significance & Media Reaction

• Cruz describes the media and Democratic reaction as a “primal scream of horror,” emphasizing the magnitude and rarity of such an indictment.
• Comey's public statement in response, focusing on his opposition to Trump and calls to “vote like your beloved country depends upon it,” is characterized by Cruz as “purely political, not factual or legal.”
  • Cruz: “There’s a Yiddish word, chutzpah, and I gotta say, James Comey really ought to have a T-shirt with that printed on it…” [13:39]

Legal Analysis of the Case

• Cruz explains why the indictment was filed now: the statute of limitations was about to run out.
• He details the evidentiary record, laying out the conflict between Comey’s and McCabe’s sworn testimonies and arguing that only one can be truthful.
  • Cruz: “Mr. Comey and Mr. McCabe statements are irreconcilably contradictory…There is not a world in which neither of them committed a felony.” [23:45]
• Cruz predicts that McCabe will be a star witness, “forced to admit the truth when confronted with contrary evidence.” [32:11]
• He anticipates that Comey likely “won’t take the stand” due to risk of further perjury under cross-examination.

Political Narratives & Retaliation Accusations

• Ben Ferguson raises the “deep state” defense: that the prosecution is political retribution orchestrated by the Trump administration, noting that Comey’s son-in-law resigned from the prosecutor’s office as the indictment came down [19:44].
• Cruz argues the case is, in fact, simple and evidence-based, not about Trump’s animosity toward Comey.
  • Cruz: “This indictment is not for being an opponent of Donald Trump…This indictment is for deliberately and knowingly lying under oath to the United States Senate, which is a clear and unmistakable felony.” [34:36]

Odds of Conviction and Pattern of Leaking

• Both hosts discuss the possibility of a conviction; Cruz is confident, stating, “I think the odds are good that Comey will be convicted. And I think if he’s convicted, I think he’s going to serve jail time.” [35:45]
• On Comey’s leaking history: The hosts believe evidence of Comey's prior leaks could enter as rebuttal if Comey's legal team argues otherwise.

Selected Notable Quotes

• Ted Cruz [09:25]: “There are only two possibilities, that you were deliberately corrupt or woefully incompetent. And I don’t believe you were incompetent.”
• Ben Ferguson [11:30]: “I love how he is a victim there and acting like he’s above all of this.”
• Ted Cruz [13:39]: “There’s a Yiddish word, chutzpah, and I gotta say, James Comey really ought to have a T-shirt with that printed on it because he is grieving for the Department of Justice—why? Because he has been indicted for what I think is clearly a felony.”
• Ted Cruz [34:36]: “This indictment is not for being an opponent of Donald Trump…This indictment is for deliberately and knowingly lying under oath to the United States Senate…”

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2. Sniper Attack on Dallas ICE Facility: Political Rhetoric & Real-World Violence

[39:27–45:36]

The Shooting

• Cruz provides his personal account of the attack in Dallas, where a gunman opened fire on an ICE facility, killing two and injuring a third before dying by suicide.
• He notes this is the third such attack on ICE or CBP in Texas and links the event to a larger trend of politically motivated violence.

The Political Context

• Cruz directly connects heated anti-ICE rhetoric from Democratic politicians and the proliferation of apps and websites that “dox” ICE agents to acts of real-world violence.
  • Cruz [42:06]: “To every politician who is using rhetoric, demonizing ICE and demonizing CBP, stop…This has very real consequences.”
  • Cruz [43:14]: “That is an app designed to encourage violence against ICE agents and law enforcement. And whether it’s Gavin Newsom or Akeem Jeffries or any other Democrat who is encouraging this targeting of ICE agents, it is fundamentally wrong.”
• The shooter’s mother was a vocal gun control advocate; Cruz highlights the irony, linking “extreme ideology” to violent outcomes.

Call for Decency and Unity

• Cruz pleads for restraint in political rhetoric:
  • “If we want to have a debate about immigration policies, we can do so in the halls of Congress…without demonizing each other…” [41:20]
  • Cruz resists tit-for-tat demonization, stating, “I am absolutely opposing any violence or calls to violence. I’m calling on them to tone down their rhetoric and stop demonizing their opponent. Stop demonizing ICE, stop demonizing law enforcement, because it’s dangerous.” [45:01]

Notable Quotes

• Ted Cruz [40:15]: “This needs to stop. Violence is wrong. Politically motivated violence is wrong.”
• Ted Cruz [41:20]: “Our prayers are with the men and women of law enforcement. And we ought to come together and have some decency across the political aisle to say this violence is wrong and it needs to stop.”

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• [08:09] Cruz’s questioning of Comey in 2020—pivotal testimony now forming the basis of the indictment.
• [11:30] Ben Ferguson calls out Comey “acting like he’s above all of this,” reflecting on Comey’s previous celebratory tweets about Trump’s indictment.
• [13:39] Cruz introduces the “chutzpah” line regarding Comey’s self-perceived victimhood.
• [24:02] Cruz’s detailed reading of contradictions in Comey’s and McCabe’s testimonies.
• [32:11] Cruz’s prediction that McCabe will be the prosecution’s “star witness,” and his analysis of how the courtroom drama could unfold.
• [40:15–41:20] Cruz’s emotional statement at the Dallas ICE facility press conference, denouncing violent rhetoric and calling for national healing.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:05] — Introduction of Comey’s indictment, discussion of the core charges.
• [08:09] — Playback and breakdown of 2020 Senate exchange between Cruz and Comey.
• [10:41] — Comey’s Instagram statement discussed and critiqued.
• [20:48] — Analysis of conflicting testimonies between Comey and McCabe; timeline and legal basis for indictment.
• [29:16] — Breakdown of likely courtroom proceedings, legal strategies, and possibilities of conviction.
• [35:57] — Discussion of Comey’s “pattern of leaking” and evidentiary relevance.
• [39:27] — Shift to Dallas ICE facility shooting, connecting political rhetoric to violence.
• [40:15] — Cruz’s press conference remarks: plea for unity and denouncement of violence.
• [43:14] — Details on shooter’s background, rhetoric and links to political extremism.
• [45:36] — Episode wrap-up and call for continued engagement.

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Tone & Delivery

• The tone throughout is urgent, combative, and deeply partisan, with Cruz and Ferguson advancing a narrative of political accountability, government overreach, and the dangers of incendiary rhetoric.
• Cruz remains stern, lawyerly, and precise with legal language, while Ferguson plays the role of everyman, emphasizing gut reactions and driving home anti-elite themes.

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Summary

This episode of “Verdict with Ted Cruz” provides a comprehensive, conservative analysis of the historic indictment of James Comey, framing it as a triumph of accountability over politicized law enforcement. The hosts deliver meticulous legal breakdowns, highlight the political stakes, and draw direct links between left-wing rhetoric and real-world violence against law enforcement—all while reinforcing core themes of conservative grievance and the need for cultural as well as legal reckoning.

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For further coverage, subscribe and stay tuned for ongoing updates as the Comey trial and ICE facility shooting investigations develop.

Transcript

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[Ben Ferguson]

It is Vertic with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Nice to have you with us wherever you are around the country, especially if you're listening on radio right now as well. We've got a packed show. And Senator, I don't even know if you thought that it was going to be all about you with the James Comey indictment. He has been indicted for alleged false statements, obstruction of congressional proceedings. This is obviously, as you would say, a big damn deal. And the clip of you talking to James Comey is what everyone's playing on TV right now.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, Ben, it's a momentous day. The former director of the FBI, James Comey, has been indicted on two counts of lying to Congress under oath and lying to Congress under oath. To be clear, in response to questioning from me in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the grand jury has indicted him. He's facing prosecution. And we are seeing the media losing their minds. Media is, is letting out a primal scream of horror. The Democrats are horrified. We're gonna break down exactly why James Comey has been indicted. We're gonna give you the factual predicate. We're gonna give you the legal predicate. And, and I will tell you, James Comey is defending himself and he's defending himself as a partisan, as someone who hates Donald Trump. He is defending himself as if he were Chuck Schumer or Nancy Pelosi rather than actually addressing the facts that I believe demonstrated he committed deliberately committed felonies when he testified and falsely testified under oath to the United States Senate. We're going to give you all those details. We're also going to talk about the tragic shooting that happened when a deranged sniper targeted an ICE facility in Dallas, Texas. I was on the ground there moments after the shooting occurred. This is yet the latest instance of politically motivated violence and violence directed against ICE agents and CBP and law enforcement. This is getting worse and worse and this must stop. We're going to tell you exactly what happened and give you all the facts.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, it's certainly a very, very, very big story. All of you know that I am a pro second Amendment guy. I've shared on numerous occasions how carrying my firearms saved my life from a gang related attack. But for those of you out there with family members who may not be comfortable having a gun by their side, you still want them to be able to protect themselves and others in times of danger. And that's where the burner launcher comes in. Burna is a handheld pistol that fires both kinetic rounds and chemical irritants to separate you from an attacker. Burna is a handheld pistol that fires both kinetic rounds and chemical irritants to separate you from the attacker. I'm here today with Josh Sherrard from Berna to share the true story of how a California homeowner used a burner launcher to stop a home intruder. Josh, tell us what happened.

[Josh Sherrard]

You know, Bob, Brad was one of the earliest adopters of Burna. Back when we first started, he lived in California in a residential suburb of LA that was pretty prone to a lot of vagrancy, a lot of homeless walking up and down the street. He kept a burner's living room and one of these vagrants wandered in his home just confused, probably drunk and intoxicated in the wrong house. Bob was able to pull his burner out, point it at the intruder, who promptly backed out of the home and back into the yard. And of course, it was all caught on surveillance. He didn't even have to use the burner. And he was able to ward off this intruder in a situation that could have ended incredibly badly had more force been used. This is a great demonstration of how the lowest level of force can be used to rectify a situation. And of course it was all caught on video, which makes for a great illustration of how that burner can be used on a day to day basis.

[Ben Ferguson]

There's a lot of people are going to say, well, why wouldn't the homeowner just use a gun in this case?

[Josh Sherrard]

Yeah, well, one, it comes down to legality, you know, in this part of California it may be very difficult to use a gun. And then two, we saw that this intruder literally just stumbled into the wrong home in an altered state of mind. Nobody wants to kill anybody that doesn't need killing that they absolutely don't have to. So this is a great instance where the burner was able to be used. The lowest level of less lethal force is able to use to rectify the situation without bringing a gun into that situation.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, I tell you, I have one of these. My family members do as well. A lot of my friends. If you want more information how you or a family member can protect themselves with a burner launcher, go to Byrna B y r n a.com that's byrna.com by rna.com Again, protect yourself and your family. Byrna by rna.com all right, so, Senator, I want to start with this clip. And I think this is a great starting point for this indictment of the former FBI Director James Comey. This is you questioning Comey back in September of 2020. This is the back and forth between the two of you, everyone listening. This is really an important part of history now and going to probably be an important part of this case.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

To another topic. On May 3, 2017, in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation, of the Clinton investigation? You responded under oath, quote, never. He then asked you, quote, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration? You responded again under oath, no. Now, as you know, Mr. McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal and that you were directly aware of it and that you directly authorized it. Now, what Mr. McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee, cannot both be true. One or the other is false. Who's telling the truth?

[Steve Cynthia Littleton]

I can only speak to my testimony. I stand by what the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak and Mr. McCabe, when, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth, Is that correct? Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's.

[Steve Cynthia Littleton]

Testimony, but mine is the same today.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All right, I'm going to make a final point because my time has expired. This investigation of the president was corrupt. The FBI and the Department of Justice were politicized and weaponized. And in my opinion, there are only two possibilities, that you were deliberately corrupt or woefully incompetent. And I don't believe you were incompetent. This has done severe damage to the professionals and the honorable men and women at the FBI because law enforcement should not be used as a political weapon.

[Ben Ferguson]

All right, so you listen to that and then you look at the indictment. Count one, false statement to the U.S. senate that he had not, quote, authorized someone else of the FBI to be an anonymous news source. Count two, Comey obstructed the Senate Judiciary Committee's investigation through his, quote, false and misleading statements. That is a big smoking gun.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, it is. It's the basis of the indictment. And this will be the, the central focus of the trial Now, James Comey put out a statement tonight on Instagram. And, and his statement is striking in that it is a political statement. It is not a statement about the facts of the law. So give a listen to what James Comey said this evening in response to the indictment.

[Steve Cynthia Littleton]

My family and I have known for years that there are costs to standing up to Donald Trump, but we couldn't imagine ourselves living any other way. We will not live on our knees. And you shouldn't either. Somebody that I love dearly recently said that fear is the tool of a tyrant. And she's right. But I'm not afraid. And I hope you're not either. I hope instead you are engaged, you are paying attention, and you will vote like your beloved country depends upon it, which it does. My heart is broken for the Department of Justice, but I have great confidence in the federal judicial system and I'm innocent. So let's have a trial.

[Ben Ferguson]

I love how he is a victim there and acting like he's above all of this. But, Senator, let's just go back to 3:30 of 23. James Comey tweeted out, quote, it's been a good day. That is how he reacted to Trump being indicted in the Alvin Bragg hush money case. So to act like he's some sort of guy, that's above all this, look at his own words.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, his statement he put out in response to this, that could have been given by Chuck Schumer or Nancy Pelosi or Keem Jefferson Jeffries or any other political Democrat. And in fact, he makes a call, come out and vote. It's a get out the vote message. This is a former director of the FBI. But to give you a sense of just how much he loathes Donald Trump, this is a former director of the FBI who tweeted out to the world a picture of shells spelling out 8647, in other words, slang for kill. The current President of the United States, Donald Trump. To say calling for the murder of the sitting president is not appropriate for the former FBI director. In an ordinary time, that would be such an obvious statement that no one would even think to say it. But that's just how much James Comey loathes Donald Trump. And understand when Trump became president the first time, In January of 2017, President Trump unfortunately made a serious mistake, which is he left James Comey in office. In hindsight, on January 20, 2017, President Trump should have called James Comey and said, thank you for your service to the nation. Your services are no longer required. I am Certain President Trump wishes he had done that. I think the White House team believed that Comey could focus on law enforcement, could not be politicized, and that assumption proved to be in error. James Comey presided over weaponizing and politicizing the FBI. He was part of weaponizing and politicizing the Department of Justice. And it was because they hated Donald Trump, and frankly, they were angry at the American people for electing him in 2016. And so the FBI set out to try to attack and to try to ultimately remove from office the President of the United States. Now, again, this should not bear saying, but it is not the job of law enforcement to determine the will of the voters is wrong, and the elected president should no longer be president. But that's what Comey presided over. And so when I listened to him say, I weep for the Department of Justice, it really is. You know, there's a Yiddish word, chutzpah, and I gotta say, James Comey really ought to have a T shirt with that printed on it because he is grieving for the Department of Justice. Why? Because he has been indicted for what I think is clearly a felony. And we're gonna break down in just minutes why exactly this is a felony, what the crime is. And I want to point out, nowhere in his statement does Comey get into the actual facts. Nowhere in the statement does he get into what he did. No one in this. Nowhere in the statement does it get into the law. He just gives a political statement. He will not be on his knees. He calls Trump a tyrant who is ruling by fear. Look, this is an indictment that was returned by a grand jury in the Commonwealth of Virginia, and it was returned because of, I believe, clear evidence demonstrating Comey committed felonies.

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[Ben Ferguson]

Senator, I, I want to bring up a point that like no one in the media has brought up so far about this indictment. And I brought it up on CNN and they were like all deer in headlights. There is something about this case and they were saying, oh, this is just political retribution by Donald Trump, that clearly they weren't going to bring this case. He had to fire the person in charge of this office in Virginia had to put in somebody that would weaponize the doj. Here's a fact that most people don't know. James Comey's own son in law was literally inside the prosecutor's office that was tasked, just think about this, with indicting his father in law. And so when you sit there and I look at this, I'm like, man, the deep state got together to protect James Comey at all costs. And as soon as the indictment came out later in the day, James Comey's son in law then gave his resignation letter because I guess he just couldn't stop what was inevitable.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, and look, I think what should govern this case is the facts and the law. And I believe James Comey should have been indicted five years ago. And indeed I called upon him to be indicted five years ago. So let me lay out the facts. And in December of 2020. So the questioning that we played in the first segment was September 30th of 2020. And by the way, the reason the indictment was brought right now is the statute of limitations was going to run next week and so they had to bring it before the end of the statute of limitations or they would not be able to charge him. But on December 10th of 2020, here's the letter that I sent to Bill Barr, then the Attorney General of the United States, and Christopher Wray, who was then the director of the FBI. Days before the presidential election in 2016, a Wall Street Journal article quoted an anonymous source confirming the existence of a probe into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server while serving as Secretary of State. An investigation that up to that point, Mr. Comey and the FBI declined to confirm. We now know that this leak was authorized by then Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe. Mr. McCabe initially told FBI agents under oath that he did not authorize the leak and he did not know who did. But when confronted later with contrary evidence, he confessed both to knowing about and authorizing the leak. We do not know, however, whether and to what extent then FBI Director Comey was aware of and authorized this leak after the fact. Mr. McCabe has repeatedly stated that Mr. Comey knew of and effectively authorized the leak by approving it. He told the Office of Inspector General that, quote, he and Comey discussed the October 30 Wall Street Journal article in person on October 31, 2016, and that. And that at that meeting, quote, he told Comey that He had authorized AD, slash, OPA and special counsel to disclose the account of the Aug. 12 call and did not say anything in any way to suggest that it was unauthorized. According to Mr. McCabe, Mr. Comey, quote, did not react negatively, just kind of accepted it and, quote, thought it was a good idea that they presented this information to the media. He again reiterated Mr. Comey's involvement at a hearing last month at the Senate Judiciary committee. I asked Mr. McCabe, according to the Washington Times, April 18, 2018, Mr. McCabe insisted that he told his boss that he had authorized disclosure about the Clinton investigation. But Mr. Comey has denied this claim, and Mr. McCabe told investigators that Mr. Comey knew he had authorized disclosure and agreed it was a good idea. Is that accurate? Is that your testimony to this committee? Mr. McCabe replied, that is my recollection. Mr. Comey, however, has sworn under oath that he has neither authorized the leak nor knew of Mr. McCabe's involvement. At a May 2017 hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Grassley asked Mr. Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation? Mr. Comey replied, Never. Senator Grassley then asked, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration. He testified no. And this October, at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Mr. Comey testified in response to my questioning. Quote, I stand by the testimony that you summarize that I gave in May of 2017. Mr. Comey's denial in front of the Senate is consistent with his statement to the oig. He told the OIG that, quote, he recalled seeing this article, but he did not know how the disclosure about the paid AG call in the October 30 article happened. He said that he was, quote, very concerned about that part of the article. Comey told OIG he considered the disclosure about the paydex call problematic because it related to sensitive FBI information. The OIG report continues. Quote, according to Comey, he discussed the issue with McCabe after the article was published. And at the time, McCabe, quote, definitely did not tell me that he authorized the disclosure of the paid ad call. Comey said that McCabe gave him the exact opposite impression. Mr. Comey asserted that he took from whatever communication they had that Mr. McCabe wasn't involved in the leak. And here's what's critical. Mr. Comey and Mr. McCabe statements are irreconcilably contradictory. Mr. McCabe says that he told Mr. Comey of the leak and that Mr. Comey approved effectively authorizing the leak after the fact. Mr. Comey, on the other hand, has said that he neither authorized the leak nor knew of Mr. McCabe's involvement. One of them is lying under oath, a federal crime. 18 USC section 1621. The American people deserve to know who. Those are the facts. And it is a simple binary choice. Either James Comey lied under oath and committed a felony, or Andrew McCabe lied under oath or committed a felony. Because what they said is precisely opposite. There is not a world in which neither of them committed a felony. And the only choice is which one broke the law by bringing this indictment. Obviously, the Department of Justice has determined it was James Comey who lied under oath and broke the law. And that's what the trial will be all about.

[Ben Ferguson]

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, at the end of the day, the factual predicate behind this, this crime is not terribly complicated. As I mentioned, there's a direct contradiction between James Comey's testimony under oath before the Senate and Andrew McCabe's testimony under oath before the Senate. They cannot both be true. One or the other is deliberately lying. And how do we know which one is likely to be lying? Well, the FBI in all likelihood possesses the information that confirms who's telling the truth and who's lying. Indeed, if you look at the account of what occurred. McCabe initially told the same lie that Comey did. McCabe initially said he didn't leak the information. Yeah, he didn't authorize it and he didn't know who did. But then the FBI Office of Inspector General confronted him with contrary evidence. I don't know what the contrary evidence is, but they put in front of him, Mr. McCabe, you said you didn't leak this information. Well, boom, here's the evidence to the contrary. And what did McCabe do? Oh, crap, you got me. Okay, you're right. I leaked it. I'm the one who did it. And I talked to Comey about it. I told him about it. So he admitted that when he was caught in a lie. I don't know specifically.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

What confirming evidence the FBI and the Department of Justice has, but they have enough that they caused McCabe to reverse his first lie and instead to say, yes, he did it and Comey knew about it. And so between the two, you know, it was interesting, when I was questioning Comey, he said a couple of times, well, I'm not going to characterize, as he put it, Andy's testimony. Well, I get. Politically, that's a smart move not to characterize Andy's testimony. But you know what his entire legal defense is going to be? McCabe is lying because he doesn't have an alternative. That's his only argument is when McCabe said under oath.

[Ben Ferguson]

Good point.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

That I knew about it. Comey's defense team is going to have to say McCabe was lying. And by the way, McCabe is going to be the star witness at the prosecution. The prosecution is going to put Andy McCabe on the stand and he's going to ask them, did you leak it? Now I'm going to predict Andy McCabe is going to say yes. Did you talk to James Comey about it? Yes. Did he authorize it? Yes. And the reason I'm going to predict he's going to do all of that is because Andy McCabe testified to that in front of Congress. And if he gives any other answer, he'll be indicted for lying to Congress. So he can't have it both ways. And I expect that that Comey's lawyer will try to cross examine him and will try to argue McCabe is lying. But it's very difficult to see why McCabe would have any incentive to lie. He and Comey were thick as thieves.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

He was only forced to admit the truth when confronted with contrary evidence. Again, we don't know what that evidence is. But presumably the FBI and the Department of Justice do so. I don't know if it is contemporaneous phone calls, perhaps with the reporters. I don't know if it is notes. I don't know if it's emails. I don't know if it's testimony from someone else at the FBI who said, hey, Andrew McCabe told me to do this, but it is something. And it was something that was compelling enough that it caused Andrew McCabe to abandon lie number one. And, and, and so at the end of the day, this, this is not a complicated factual case. This is not some grand tapestry. It's a he shed, he said, she said. But you have both testimonies under oath, and it's going to be a question of what additional evidence is there to confirm who's telling the truth and who's not. I also think I will, I will be surprised if James Comey's lawyer puts him on the stand. Now, under our justice system, the prosecution cannot force a defendant to testify. But I'm going to predict James Comey is not going to take the stand, because if he takes the stand, he can be cross examined. And he does not want to be cross examined, because this is someone who presided over weaponizing the Department of Justice with the objective of taking out Donald J. Trump and getting under oath, getting cross examined by a skilled trial attorney. And again under oath, by the way, if he lies in his trial testimony, he can be indicted and prosecuted again for lying under oath again. And I don't think his lawyer will do that. And so at the end of the day, look, the press is gonna go on and on and say, well, Trump hates James Comey. That is certainly true. But being hated by the President is not enough to exonerate you from criminal conduct. And in this instance, I believe Comey should have been indicted five years ago because it was clear he had deliberately lied to Congress. And look, we started by playing my cross examination. This wasn't an absent minded lie. This wasn't, oh, I'm not paying attention. This was careful. This was deliberate. This was strategic. This was planned. I believe this was James Comey saying, I face no accountability whatsoever. I can lie under oath and no one's gonna hold me to account. And I think he feels, he feels clever, but he also feels vindicated. Listen, James Comey was someone who, I think fancied himself as J. Edgar Hoover. He fancied himself as an incredibly powerful director of the FBI, empowered to remove the tyrant. That's what he said in his statement tonight. That he thinks Trump is a tyrant. And I think when the American people elected him in 2016, I think Comey was angry and he decided he would use the power of the FBI to remove the president elected by the people. And so I think it is quite fitting that he is facing accountability for committing criminal conduct. Let me repeat, this indictment is not for being an opponent of Donald Trump. It is not for being a political figure on the other side of Donald Trump. This indictment is for deliberately and knowingly lying under oath to the United States Senate, which is a clear and unmistakable felony. And I think. I think Comey. I think the odds are good that Comey will be convicted. And I think if he's convicted, I think he's going to serve jail time.

[Ben Ferguson]

How much of. Very quickly of his past will come back to haunt him? He is a prolific guy when it comes to leaking. He's a pro at it. He's not amateur. He knows how to leak. Hell, he leaked information that was apparently classified to make sure that there was a special counsel that went after Donald Trump. We know that for a fact. And it went to one of his former law friends at a university that then went to a newspaper. That is a fact. Will that come up? And then the other question I have for you, quickly, is this. Will the testimony gave before Congress be used in court? Or literally, will senators that interviewed him, would you guys go to court, or would they just use the testimony video?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, I think they would use the testimony. They would read or play the testimony. I don't think you're going to see senators testifying. And the record is clear and objective, and so everyone knows exactly what his testimony was in terms of his past pattern. I think it could certainly come in. The prosecution might try to bring it in to establish a pattern. That would be difficult. But I think if Comey's lawyer argues, well, he couldn't possibly have approved this. He never would have approved a leak, then I think the prosecution would be able to get all of that in as rebuttal to the defendant's argument. So I think it's more likely to come in as rebuttal evidence than directly proving a pattern. But my guess is, one way or another, that evidence is going to come in. And you're right, there's a clear pattern. Comey has a long pattern of relying on media leaks to advance his own personal agenda.

[Ben Ferguson]

Do you have a dog? If you've got one like I do, my dog is 12 and a half. His name is Memphis. And there's nothing worse than watching your Dog age. We're having to coach him off the couch, we're having to help pick him up to get him on the couch or. And then I was told about rough greens. It literally has added the spunk back to Memphis's life. And it supports long term health by providing live bioavailable nutrients, including essential vitamins, minerals, probiotics, digestive enzymes, and omega oils. Now, it is ingredients that work together to improve your dog's life nutrition absorption. It maintains joint and muscle health, and it enhances his overall or her overall vitality. It also promotes longevity by addressing common nutritional deficiencies found in processed dog food. And it's so easy. It's not a diet. It is literally. You sprinkle it on your dog's food, and after you give it to them, not only do they want to eat it, they love it. But then the effects happen where your dog gets back to the way they used to be. So don't change your dog's food. Just add rough greens on top. And I am offering a free Jump Start bag right now. All you got to do is cover the shipping. Use the discount code Ben to claim your free jump start trial bag at ruffgreens.com that's R U F F greens.com promo code Ben. So you don't change your dog's food. Just add rough greens and watch the health benefits come live. Get the free bag. Ruffgreens.com promo code Ben. Senator, you were in Dallas when this shooting happened. It was eight hours after we watched Gavin Newsom go on on late night TV demonizing ICE agents, saying that they are authoritarian. And then the liberals are like, wait, wait, we're not attacking ICE agents. Yes, they are. They've undermined them, They've demonized them. And we are watching attack after attack happen against ICE agents. It's horrific.

[Law Enforcement Official]

Yeah.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I was in Dallas this week for a series of unrelated meetings, and the news broke that this deranged gunman had opened fire on an ICE facility in Dallas, that he had gone onto a rooftop emulating Charlie Kirk's assassin, and with a bolt action rifle, fired multiple rounds, ended up killing two people, severely injuring a third. And then he took the gun to himself and took his own life. And it was horrific. When the news broke, I canceled my morning meeting and just drove over to the ICE facility that morning, was there shortly after the shooting had occurred. And this has happened far too often. Here's what I had to say at the press conference that was ongoing when I arrived at the facility.

[Law Enforcement Official]

This needs to stop. Violence is wrong. Politically motivated violence is wrong. It was two weeks ago today that we saw a political assassination in Utah that tore the heart out of much of this country. This is the third shooting in Texas directed at ICE or cbp. This must stop. To every politician who is using rhetoric, demonizing ICE and demonizing cbp, stop. To every politician demanding that ICE agents be doxed and calling for people to go after their families, stop. This has very real consequences. Look, in America, we disagree. That's fine. That's the democratic process. But your political opponents are not Nazis. We need to learn to work together without demonizing each other, without attacking each other. And I want to say thank you. I want to say thank you to the brave men and women of law enforcement. I want to say thank you to the brave men and women of ICE and CBP and everyone who puts their lives on the lines to keep us safe. The divisive rhetoric, tragically, has real consequences. I hope that every one of us will. I hope that every one of us will pray, number one, for the safety of law enforcement that are risking their lives to keep us safe. Number two, for the health of those who were shot and injured today. We still don't know the full details of who was injured. But for the families also of the victims of this shooting, violence has no place. It is wrong. And we should come together. If we want to have a debate about immigration policies, we can do so in the whole halls of Congress without demonizing each other, and especially without demonizing the men and women who every day put on a badge and go risk their lives to keep us safe. And we should not be putting language out there that. That. That inspires mad men to commit evil crimes. Our prayers are with the men and women of law enforcement. And we ought to come together and have some decency across the political aisle to say this violence is wrong and it needs to stop.

[Ben Ferguson]

We know, Senator, a lot about this gunman. We know that he was googling the shooting of our friend whose funeral we just went to, Charlie Kirk. We know that he was looking at the app that they put out there and these websites where you can track ICE agents, doxing where they are.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

That is an app designed to encourage violence against ICE agents and law enforcement. And whether it's Gavin Newsom or Akeem Jeffries or any other Democrat who is encouraging this targeting of ICE agents, it is fundamentally wrong and that they need to stand up and stop it. You know, I will say this shooter, it's. The news has since come out. This shooter, his mother was A hard leftist who actually had been vocally critical of me and other Texas Republicans for not embracing gun control. And in fact, In May of 2022, she posted the following. Governor Abbott, Senator Cornyn and Senator Cruz, how does it feel that your action to open up gun laws is responsible for the killing of 21 more people? Do you secretly sit in front of a TV and smile with a demented smile? You must be proud of all the money that sits in your bank accounts from the gun lobby support. Was it worth it? Governor Abbott? How about you senators? When you prioritize money over people, this is what you get. And I will say the irony is rich that this leftist mom who was championing gun control, now her son has committed a mass murder as a sniper. It is tragic and it is a consequence of extreme rhetoric, extreme ideology that is poisoning the mind of those who are driven to violence. And I will say this assassin wrote on his shell casings anti ice, very much emulating what Charlie Kirk's murderer did, writing pro antifa and pro transgender propaganda on his shell casings. And we need to stop this violence, regardless of where your politics are. But we need to stop the rhetoric that is fueling this violence. And there's a lot of Democrat politicians engaging in this rhetoric no matter how many lives are lost. And I want to be clear, I am not calling them Nazis. I am absolutely opposing any, any violence or calls to violence. I'm calling on them to tone down their rhetoric and stop demonizing their opponent. Stop demonizing. I stop demonizing law enforcement because it's dangerous. And tragically, lunatics are acting on the rhetoric they're hearing from these politicians.

[Ben Ferguson]

No doubt about it. Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So make sure you hit that subscriber auto download button wherever you get your podcasts. We do it again Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You can also say to Alexa or Siri play verdict with Ted Cruz and it will do it for you. So download the podcast. We will keep you updated, obviously on all the breaking news around. James Comey. He is and it's going to be a very, very big case. So we'll have that for you and we'll see you on the podcast all week long. Be safe everyone.

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This is an iHeart podcast.