Congress Grills NPR, a Filibuster Showdown & Behind the Tariffs Week In Review

Summary

Verdict with Ted Cruz: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Congress Grills NPR, a Filibuster Showdown & Behind the Tariffs Week In Review
Release Date: April 5, 2025
Hosts: Senator Ted Cruz and Co-Host Ben Ferguson
Guest: Kathryn Marr

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1. Congressional Grilling of NPR

Overview:
The episode opens with a critical examination of NPR's recent congressional testimony regarding government funding. Senator Cruz and Ben Ferguson delve into the contentious interactions between NPR's CEO and congressional members, highlighting perceived arrogance and disconnect from reality.

Key Points:

• NPR CEO's Testimony:
  Senator Cruz criticizes NPR's CEO and PBS CEO for their performance before Congress, describing them as "arrogant" and "out of touch." He draws parallels to Ivy League presidents' testimonies on anti-Semitism, emphasizing a pattern of denial and deflection.
  Quote:

  "It reminded me an awful lot... NPR CEO, very arrogant. PBS CEO very arrogant." ([04:14])

• Kathryn Marr’s Background and Bias:
  Kathryn Marr, identified as NPR's CEO, is portrayed as a staunch leftist with extensive affiliations to progressive organizations. Senator Cruz argues that her statements reflect a bias, particularly in her handling of topics like white supremacy and reparations.
  Quote:

  “She is a hard leftist... she worked for UNICEF... Wikimedia Foundation.” ([05:26])

• Exchange with Congressman Brandon Gill:
  The discussion highlights a back-and-forth between Kathryn Marr and Congressman Brandon Gill, a freshman House member from Texas. Gill’s questioning is presented as effective, catching Marr in inconsistencies regarding white supremacy and reparations.
  Notable Exchange:

  Ben Ferguson: "Do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy?" ([05:37])
  Kathryn Marr: "I believe that. I tweeted that..." ([05:30])
  Kathryn Marr: "I don't believe anybody feels that way, sir." ([07:00])

Analysis:

Senator Cruz and Ben Ferguson argue that NPR's leadership is misaligned with public expectations and taxpayer interests. They suggest that NPR is disseminating propaganda rather than unbiased journalism, leading to a loss of trust among a broader American audience.

---

2. Filibuster Showdown

Overview:
The episode transitions to a discussion about filibusters in the Senate, comparing Senator Cruz's own record-breaking efforts to Cory Booker's recent filibuster.

Key Points:

• Cory Booker's Record-Breaking Filibuster:
  Senator Cruz recounts Cory Booker's historic 25-hour and four-minute filibuster, surpassing Strom Thurmond's 1957 record. He reflects on his own previous filibuster of 21 hours and 19 minutes in 2013 against Obamacare.
  Quote:

  “Cory just beat me. I will say I tweeted out right before he broke my record...” ([19:32])

• Effectiveness and Impact:
  Cruz asserts that his own filibuster had significant political repercussions, contributing to the Republican gains in the 2014 elections. In contrast, he expresses skepticism about Booker's filibuster having a similar impact, viewing it as more symbolic and less effective in driving legislative change.
  Quote:

  “I'm skeptical that it's gonna have a meaningful impact.” ([21:23])

• Personal Anecdotes and Advice:
  Kathryn Marr shares personal experiences and advice regarding filibustering, emphasizing the physical and strategic challenges involved. She recounts her preparation, including comfortable footwear and minimal water intake, to endure long hours on the Senate floor.
  Quote:

  “I wore black tennis shoes... I drank one tiny little glass of water.” ([27:10])

Analysis:

The hosts draw a clear distinction between the political motivations and outcomes of their respective filibusters. While Cruz's efforts are portrayed as strategically impactful, Booker's filibuster is viewed as less consequential, serving more as a personal or political statement rather than a catalyst for legislative change.

---

3. Behind the Tariffs: Week In Review

Overview:
The final segment delves into the administration's tariff policies, their economic implications, and the potential long-term effects on the U.S. economy.

Key Points:

• Tariffs as Leverage vs. Economic Policy:
  Kathryn Marr differentiates between using tariffs as a strategic tool to negotiate favorable trade terms and adopting tariffs as a permanent economic policy. She praises President Trump's approach of leveraging tariffs to secure policies like border security but warns against treating tariffs as a continual revenue source.
  Quote:

  “I believe in free trade, but I also believe in fair trade.” ([43:49])

• Economic Impact Analysis:
  Citing the Tax Foundation, Marr outlines the severe economic repercussions if tariffs remain in place. Predicted outcomes include a significant drop in imports, a decrease in GDP, and increased tax burdens on American households.
  Quote:

  “If these tariffs stay in place... shrinks US GDP by 0.5%.” ([45:20])

• Market Reactions:
  The discussion highlights immediate market reactions to recent tariff announcements, including steep declines in major stock indexes and a slump in the dollar. These events underscore the urgency and potential instability caused by prolonged tariff policies.
  Quote:

  “Stocks lost roughly $3.1 trillion in market value, their largest one day decline since March 2020.” ([41:24])

• Future Projections:
  Marr expresses concern over the Trump administration's commitment to maintaining high tariffs indefinitely, drawing historical parallels to pre-income tax tariff revenue strategies. She emphasizes the need for reciprocity to prevent a detrimental economic spiral.
  Quote:

  “President Trump believes... tariffs are a fabulous feature of the American economy.” ([40:02])

Analysis:

The hosts critically assess the administration's tariff strategy, acknowledging its short-term benefits in negotiating trade terms but cautioning against its long-term sustainability. They argue that without reciprocity and strategic implementation, tariffs could lead to significant economic downturns, affecting both the stock market and everyday American households.

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Conclusion

In this episode of "Verdict with Ted Cruz," the hosts provide a robust critique of NPR's congressional testimony, analyze the dynamics and effectiveness of modern filibusters, and offer a comprehensive review of the current tariff policies and their potential impact on the U.S. economy. Through detailed discussions and authoritative insights, the episode underscores the importance of accountability in media, strategic legislative actions, and prudent economic policies to safeguard American interests.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• NPR CEO's Arrogance:

  "She is a hard leftist... she has no recollection." ([05:50])

• Filibuster Preparation:

  “I drank one tiny little glass of water.” ([27:10])

• Tariff Economic Impact:

  “If these tariffs stay in place... shrinking US GDP by 0.8%.” ([45:29])

---

For Further Listening:
To explore these discussions in greater depth, listeners are encouraged to download the full episode of "Verdict with Ted Cruz" available on Premiere Networks.

Transcript

[Rodney Williams]

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak Podcast, a real conversation about finance.

[Rodney Williams]

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I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[Travis Holloway]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

[Unknown]

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[Kathryn Marr]

How do you cope with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Kathryn Marr]

Welcome.

[Ted Cruz]

It is Verdict with Ted Cruz, A Week in Review. Ben Ferguson with you. And here are the big stories that you may have missed that we talked about this week. First up, NPR was in front of Congress having to answer questions about all the government funds that are going to their organization. You gonna be shocked what the CEO had to say and how out of touch they were with reality. Also, you had a filibuster that happened this week, but what was it over? Well, that's the funny part. We'll give you the details of one senator that decided to stay up all day and all night to filibuster your vote. And finally, Senator Cruz takes you behind the scenes so you understand exactly what's going on with his colleagues when it comes to the tariff situation. It's the weekend review and it starts right now. Which brings us to another aspect of this, and that was what happened in Congress last week with NPR CEO and PBS CEO there in front of Congress having to deal with what Doge is doing, which is cutting waste, fraud and abuse. And it did not go very well for those CEOs. It reminded me an awful lot, Senator, of when those, the presidents of the Ivy League schools had to come and answer questions about anti Semitism on college campuses after the attacks on Israel and people were just in shock how radical they were and how they were not stopping it. That was very reminiscent of that with NPR CEO, very arrogant. PBS CEO very arrogant. Like this is what we do. We take your money, we put out propaganda, so sue us. That's what we've been doing forever.

[Kathryn Marr]

Well, and Kathryn Marr, who's the CEO of NPR is arrogant, drippingly arrogant. She is hard left. And it was exactly like, you're right, the president of Harvard, the president of Penn, both of whom lost their jobs over their arrogant out of touch testimony before the House, where she is, look, she's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. She worked for unicef. She worked for the National Democratic Institute. She worked for the World bank and Access now she worked for Wikimedia, Wikimedia Foundation. She joined the Atlantic Council. She was part of the Department of State's Foreign Affairs Policy Board. She, she is a hard leftist. But look, don't take my word for it. Listen to it out of, out of, out of her own mouth. And I want you to listen in particular for, for this back and forth with Brandon Gill. Brandon Gill is, is a freshman House member from Texas. He's a good friend. I campaigned hard for Brandon. I endorsed him in the primary. Brandon is A rising star in the house. And just listen to this back and forth as he questions her and hangs her on her own petard with her own words. Give a listen.

[Ben Ferguson]

Do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy?

[Unknown]

I believe that. I tweeted that, and as I've said earlier, I believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade.

[Ben Ferguson]

It is.

[Kathryn Marr]

Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop. I want you to notice something. She says there. Much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade. Ben, what's a half decade?

[Ted Cruz]

Five years.

[Kathryn Marr]

That would be five years. Doesn't a half decade sound long? I believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade. Oh, crap. What? I said five years ago. Oh, no, that's a real problem. Run away. Run away. All right, go back to what? What? He's playing with the. Has evolved. I just like that comment. Her idiocy only gets worse.

[Ted Cruz]

As soon as I heard, I was like, this is not going well. Keep listening.

[Kathryn Marr]

It gets worse.

[Ben Ferguson]

Why did you tweet that?

[Unknown]

I don't recall the exact context, sir. So I wouldn't be able to say.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay. Do you believe that America believes in black plunder and white democracy?

[Unknown]

I don't believe that, sir.

[Ben Ferguson]

You tweeted that in reference to a book you were reading at the time, apparently, the Case for Reparations.

[Unknown]

I don't think I've ever read that book, sir.

[Ben Ferguson]

You tweeted about it. You said you took a day off to fully read the Case for Reparations. You put that on Twitter in January of 2020.

[Unknown]

Apologies. I don't recall that. I did.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay.

[Unknown]

No, I. No doubt that yours. Your tweet there is correct, but I don't recall that.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay. Do you believe that white people inherently feel superior to other races?

[Unknown]

I do not.

[Ben Ferguson]

You don't? You tweeted something to that effect. You said, I. I grew up feeling superior.

[Kathryn Marr]

Ha.

[Ben Ferguson]

How wide of me. Why did you tweet that?

[Unknown]

I think I was probably reflecting on what it was to be to grow up in an environment where I had lots of advantages.

[Ben Ferguson]

It sounds like you're saying that white people feel superior.

[Unknown]

I don't believe that anybody feels that way, sir. I was just reflecting on my own experiences.

[Ben Ferguson]

Do you think that white people should pay reparations?

[Unknown]

I have never said that, sir.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes, you did. You said it in January of 2020. You tweeted, yes. The North. Yes. All of us. Yes. America. Yes. Our original collective sin and unpaid debt. Yes. Reparations. Yes.

[Unknown]

On this day, I don't believe that was a Reference to fiscal reparations, sir.

[Ben Ferguson]

What kind of reparations was it a reference to?

[Unknown]

I think it was just a reference to the idea that we all owe much to the people who came before us.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's a bizarre way to frame what you tweeted. Okay, how much reparations have you personally paid, sir?

[Unknown]

I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay, just for everybody else, I'm not asking anyone. Seems to be what you're suggesting. Do you believe that looting is morally wrong?

[Unknown]

I believe that looting is illegal, and I refer to it as counterproductive. I think it should be prosecuted.

[Ben Ferguson]

Do you believe it's morally wrong, though?

[Unknown]

Of course.

[Ben Ferguson]

Of course. Then why did you refer to it as counterproductive? The very different, very different way to describe it.

[Unknown]

It is both morally wrong and counterproductive as well as being tweeted.

[Ben Ferguson]

It's hard to be mad about protests in reference to the BL protests, not prioritizing the private property of a system of oppression. You didn't condemn the looting. You said that it was counterproductive. NPR also promoted a book called In Defense of Looting. Do you think that that's an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars?

[Unknown]

I'm unfamiliar with that book, sir, and I don't believe that was at my.

[Ben Ferguson]

Tweet that you read that book, but.

[Unknown]

I don't believe that I did read that.

[Ted Cruz]

It's amazing. She tweeted that she read the book. She's like, I don't believe that I ever read that book. So you're either now or you're lying, what, a half a decade ago, as she likes to describe it, Right, Senator.

[Kathryn Marr]

Look, that is a crushingly effective cross examination. And if you look at. She is running away from everything she's ever said, everything she's ever believed, because it is indefensible. When she says, you know, she claimed on Twitter she took an entire day off to read a book on reparations. It was so important that she devoted a day of her. And now she has no recollection. I'm sorry. You know, this. This will be before you were watching tv, but. But there was an old series. You ever watch Hogan's Heroes? Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

Oh, gosh, yes.

[Kathryn Marr]

Okay, well, do you remember Sergeant Schultz?

[Ted Cruz]

Yes.

[Kathryn Marr]

Sergeant Schultz, he would say, I see nothing, I hear nothing. That is, That's. That is Catherine Marr. She sees nothing, she hears nothing. And. And yet this is someone charged with spending millions of taxpayer dollars running what is a left wing propaganda network. You know her statement. I've never called for reparations. I gotta say, Brandon, I think does a fabulous job. Well, yes, you did. Let me read you the tweet. And she says reparations. Yes. Oh, oh, well, well, other than when I called for reparations. But I haven't called for it. Other than when I've called for it. But, but, but no, no, it's not fiscal reparations. It's, I mean, I mean, I mean, repairing the tires on their cars. That's the, those are the reparations. I mean, she has no answer because her answer is she desperately wants to run away from everything she has ever said or done. But, but let me actually, let's actually go to something else that she said and did, which is what do you think she has cited as the number one challenge that, that, that is facing, that is facing journalism right now.

[Ted Cruz]

Knowing this woman have no idea.

[Kathryn Marr]

Okay, here is a quote from her at a panel at the Atlantic Council Research Lab. Quote, the number one challenge that we see here is, of course, the First Amendment in the United States.

[Ted Cruz]

It's, it's so, like, it's so on brand for. That's almost unbelievable, though. Like a woman who says that she believes in the public and radio and free speech says that's the real problem is the First Amendment. In fact, Senator, here's the NPR CEO in her own words, saying exactly that.

[Unknown]

The number one challenge here that we see is, of course, the First Amendment in the United States is a fairly robust protection of rights. And that is a protection of rights both for platforms, which I actually think is very important that platforms have those rights to be able to regulate what kind of content they want on their site. But it also means that it is a little bit tricky to really address some of the real challenges of where does bad information come from and sort of the influence peddlers who have made a real market economy around it.

[Ted Cruz]

I mean, you listen to her and it's just amazing. If we could just do what we want and get rid of everything we don't want and silence anybody that says anything that is disagreeing with us and everything would be fine in media and with our government, right? We could just control everybody and shut everybody down. We don't like that. Is the NPR CEO saying it.

[Kathryn Marr]

Look, the left believes in censorship. They don't believe in journalism. They don't believe in media. They believe in propaganda. And you and I on this podcast covered last year a story that was written in the Free Press by Yuri Berliner. And it was in April of 24, and it was entitled I've been at NPR for 25 years. Here's how we Lost America's Trust. And I just want to read the beginning of it again because we did a good chunk of a podcast just on this story, but it really sets up the absolute disaster that is NPR today. Here's how Uri Bilinger began. You know the stereotype of the NPR lister, an EV driving wordle playing tote bag carrying coastal elite. It doesn't precisely describe me, but it's not far off. I'm Sarah Lawrence, educated, was raised by a lesbian peace activist mother. I drive a Subaru and my and Spotify says my listing habits are most similar to people in Berkeley. I fit the NPR mold. I'll cop to that. So when I got a job here 25 years ago, I never looked back. As a senior editor on the business desk where news is always breaking, we've covered up peoples in the workplace, supermarket prices, social media and AI. It's true, NPR always had a liberal bent, but during most of my tenure here, an open minded, curious culture prevailed. We were nerdy, not knee jerk activists or scolding. In recent years, however, that has changed. Today, those who listen to NPR or read its coverage online find something different the distilled worldview of a very small segment of the US population. If you are a conservative, you will read this and say, duh, it's always been this way. But it hasn't for decades. Since its founding in 1970, a wide swath of America turned into NPR for reliable journalism and gorgeous audio pieces. With birds singing in the Amazon, millions came to us for conversations that exposed us to voices around the country and the world radically different from our own, engaging precisely because they were unguarded and unpredictable. No image generated more pride within NPR than the farmer listening to Morning Edition from his or her tractor at Sunrise. Back in 2011, although NPR's audiences tilted a bit to the left, it still bore a resemblance to America at large. 26% of listeners described themselves as conservative, 23% as middle of the road, and 37% as liberal. By 2023, the picture was completely different. Only 11% described themselves as very or somewhat conservative, 21% as middle of the road, & 67% of listeners said they were very or somewhat liberal liberal. We weren't just losing conservatives, we were also losing moderates and traditional liberals. An open minded spirit no longer exists within npr, and now, predictably, we don't have an audience that reflects America.

[Ted Cruz]

Now if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, you can go back and listen to the full podcast from earlier this week.

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[Unknown]

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[Rodney Williams]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent where money means more. Connect with [e-mail] I'm Rodney Williams.

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[Rodney Williams]

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[Rodney Williams]

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So if you're ready for a podcast as much about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

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[Ted Cruz]

Now on to story number two. All right, Senator, so let's move to another very interesting moment. One of your colleagues in the Senate decided he was going to take away your record for on a filibuster. You guys were very different in why you were filibustering, but he did beat your record today. And, and you even posted something that was hilarious online as well.

[Kathryn Marr]

Well, Cory Booker, Democrat from New Jersey, has now set the record for the longest speech in history on Senate floor. And he spoke for 25 hours and four minutes. And so it was incredibly long. It surpassed. The record had been held by Strom Thurmond, who spoke for 24 hours and 18 minutes in 1957. And he was filibustering. Strom Thurmond was filibustering the 1957 Civil Rights Act. And that had been the record until last night when Cory Booker broke it. Now fourth all time is yours truly. I used to be third all time, but Cory knocked me down. And so my record in 2013, I spoke on the Senate floor for 21 hours and 19 minutes. And so Cory just beat me. I will say I tweeted out right before he broke my record. And so I took to Twitter and tweeted out, as Cory Booker approaches my 21 hour filibuster record. I'm contemplating pulling the fire alarm hat tip Jamaal Bowman. And I sent out a picture of Jamaal Bowman, the Democrat Congressman, pulling the fire alarm in the Capitol to avoid a vote. And I will say that tweet went viral. And in fact, Corey ended up at the end of his 25 hour filibuster reading that tweet on the Senate floor, which was, which I enjoyed it. I actually like Cory and he and I are friends and so I'm glad he read it. And I will say in my 2013 filibuster, I read a number of tweets on the Senate floor and I believe that was the first time in history a tweet had ever been read on the Senate floor. And I read a whole bunch of them. Now, there is a significant difference between what, what, what I was filibustering over and what Cory Booker was filibustering over. What I was filibustering over was Obamacare. And I was doing so because it was right when Obamacare was going into effect. And I was trying to stop it from going into effect because the American people, it was having the effect of driving up premiums, dramatically reducing choices. Barack Obama famously said, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. And millions of Americans discovered that was not the case. That was a lie. In fact, PolitiFact named Barack Obama's if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. The lie of the year. And for them to admit a Democrat is lying is really Quite remarkable because PolitiFact lies for a living. And so that filibuster, when I did it in 2013, I was a brand new baby freshman. And it was the theme of the filibuster was make D.C. listen. And I will tell you it had a significant effect. And in fact, it energized people across the country. And I'll point to what the effect was in 2014. The next year we had an election and it was a tsunami election. Republicans ended up winning nine Senate seats. We retired Harry Reid as majority leader and we ended up winning the biggest majority in the House of representatives since 1928. And if you look at exit polling in 20, that 2014 election, the number one issue in the country, according to the voters that were turning out in massive numbers, was Obamacare. And they were saying three. Finally, finally you're fighting. Finally Republicans are not rolling over. And so that had, I think, a very significant effect on Election Day and helped win back both the Senate and House for Republicans. I don't Think Cory Booker's is gonna have that same effect. And in fact, listen, I don't know how many people watched it. I suspect like that CNN and MSNBC was probably gushing about it. But I'll confess I didn't turn on CNN or msnbc. So I don't know one way or the other. I don't particularly care. The seven rabid partisans who watch those networks probably were quite happy with it. But at the end of the day, look, what was Cory Booker talking about? As best I can tell, it was, I hate Donald Trump. I'm a Democrat. Trump bad. Orange man bad. I'm mad at the voters. Why did the voters elect Trump? Why did the voters elect a Republican Senate? Why did the voters elect a Republican House? Gosh, I'm mad at the voters. Gosh, I hate Trump. I'm not sure there's anything new there. I'm not sure. Was there a person in America who was confused yesterday and didn't know that Senate Democrats hate Donald Trump? Was there any new information in it? And so I've gotta say I'm skeptical that it's gonna have a meaningful impact. And I'll point out it's not just me who said that. Take a listen to what Joe Biden's communications director, Kate Bedingfield said about Cory Booker's speech.

[Rodney Williams]

The Democratic base and Democratic donors are looking for signs of life. And so I think what Senator Booker is giving them here are, is some signs of life.

[Unknown]

Is it going to have a tangible impact on business? I mean, if he is still alive.

[Rodney Williams]

After this, it may have a tangible impact on Senator Booker, but it won't have a tangible impact on business in Washington.

[Ted Cruz]

I mean, that's CNN saying it, Senator. And look, it was, they changed.

[Kathryn Marr]

And that's Biden's communications director. It's Biden's communication director, amazingly enough. And so, so look, Cory, that's, that, that's fine now, now I will tell you. So it was funny as, as Booker was giving his, his filibuster, reporters were all running up to me and then they all knew that, that, that he was, he, he was aiming to beat my record. So they were asking me about it and they said, did you have any advice? And I will, I will admit Corey didn't ask me for any advice. So now I did not give him any advice on this. But I did share a story. So when I did the filibuster in 2013, I had gotten some advice from Rand Paul. So Rand Paul had done a 13 hour filibuster and I was planning to do mine. And Rand, I asked him, hey, Rand, you got any advice? Because he'd just done 13 hours. And he said, yeah, two things. He said, number one, wear comfortable shoes. Because he said, your feet and your legs will be killing you. And I will confess, as you know, every day in the Senate, I wear black cowboy boots. The boots. I wear alligator boots, and they have the Senate seal on the front, and on the back of it, they have the come and take it flag. And so that's my standard footwear in the Senate. But for the filibuster, I went to the store and I bought some black tennis shoes. And in the middle of the filibuster, at like 2 or 3 in the morning, I confessed to the people of Texas. I said, look, I have to. I just have to apologize to the people of Texas. I'm sorry. I didn't have the courage of my convictions to wear my boots. I weenied out and got black tennis shoes. But I was planning on standing here for a really long time. And so I will admit the tennis shoes are more comfortable for the marathon time. The second bit of advice Rand gave.

[Ted Cruz]

I gotta ask you.

[Kathryn Marr]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

I gotta ask you, though, when you're picking out the tennis shoes, did you buy brand new, or did you wear them a little bit beforehand?

[Kathryn Marr]

Yeah, I didn't break them in, and they were fine. And I don't think I've ever worn them since then. Like, I literally. That wore them for the filibuster, and that was it. But. But fortunately, even though they were new, they were. They were pretty comfortable. They were not bad at all. The second bit of advice Rand gave me was. Was, if anything, even more important. He said, drink very little water. And in fact, Rand said when he ended at 13 hours, he said, my legs didn't take me, didn't make me give in. My bladder did. And the most common question that I would get about the filibuster is, okay, what do you do about going to the bathroom? And the real simple answer is, you don't. So the rules of a filibuster, you have to stand, you cannot sit, and you have to stay on the Senate floor. If you sit or if you leave the Senate floor, you relinquish the floor. And so. And that's why comfortable shoes matter, because you're not allowed. You're technically not even allowed to lean on the desk, although that rule is not heavily enforced. So you can lean a little bit, but you can't. But. But you can't. Can't Sit. And legend has it that during Strom Thurman's filibuster, that, that. That he had an aide hold a bucket in. In the Senate cloak room. And, and, and. And he. He took a leak while filibustering while standing on the Senate floor. I. I figured in the. In the era of. Of C span, that probably wasn't the best idea. So I was not gonna do that. And so for the entire course of 21 plus hours, I drank one tiny little glass of water. And that's all. I basically would take a little sip just to moisten my throat. And I gotta say, look, I've never gone 21 hours without going to the bathroom. And, you know, I discovered a very simple principle, which is nothing in, nothing out. And so it was fine. But that was excellent advice.

[Ted Cruz]

All right, so final question on this. And this is, I'm sure, something that was going through your mind, Cory Booker's mind. When did you know you were just going to end it? How do you decide? Are you looking at a certain time in your mind where you're like, I got to make it to X, and then as soon as it hits, I'm done? What is the process of that as well?

[Kathryn Marr]

Well, actually, I could have gone longer. And the problem was, in order to do the filibuster, a pure filibuster is when the Senate floor is wide open and you take control of the filibuster, and it is the prerogative of every senator, have unlimited debate. And so if you take control of the floor, you can hold it for as long as you are able to hold it. When I started the filibuster, unfortunately, Harry Reid, then the majority leader, the Democrats were in charge, had locked in a unanimous consent resolution that the next day there was a vote scheduled, I think, at noon. And it was locked in, which meant I had an endpoint. I had an endpoint that was a wall because that unanimous consent had been locked in. And so it trumps. It's effectively a Senate rule. And so when I was north of 21 hours, I had plenty of strength. I could have kept going. And I really wanted to break Strom Thurmond's record. And I actually sent one of my staffers to ask Harry Reid if he would consent. I could have asked unanimous consent to be allowed to complete my speech. And if Reid had allowed it, I would have been able to. So I asked my staff, like, look, do you really want the record for the longest filibuster to be held by a segregationist who was who was filibustering against the civil rights laws. Like, you know, I'd really love to break it. And Harry Reid being Harry Reid, he just said no. And so I was forced to end when I did Cory Booker, there was not a unanimous consent in place locking up the time. And so Corey was able to go long enough as long as he wanted and then he was able to break.

[Ted Cruz]

The record as before. If you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from earlier this week to hear the entire thing.

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[Rodney Williams]

Personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent where money means more. Connect with [e-mail] I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealth break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the Same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

And that's exactly why we created the wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles, and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

[Travis Holloway]

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[Ted Cruz]

I want to get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed. All right, so then I got to ask you this question behind the scenes. What are the conversations with your colleagues? On a scale of 1 to 10, how concerned are they over the scenario that you just described?

[Kathryn Marr]

42. Okay, look, there's another point that I think is important to understand. So you and I did a podcast, I think last week where we talked about tariffs. And I talked about, I said, listen, the president uses tariffs for two principal purposes. One is leverage as an incentive to incentivize other countries to enact policies that benefit America. And the clearest example of that is the threat and tariffs against Mexico and Canada unless and until they help us secure the border. Now, using tariffs as leverage for something like that is very effective. The president uses it really well and particularly using them to push securing the border. I am emphatically in favor of that is it has proven successful. It worked incredibly well in the first term. It produced the remain in Mexico agreement with Mexico. It produced the lowest rate of illegal immigration in 45 years. Stopping the border invasion of the last four years is an acute national security and public safety imperative. It is a mandate from the last election. It is massively important for Texas. So I'm all for using the threat of tariffs as leverage to get good policy that benefits America. But there's a second component, and this is an important thing to understand, which is Donald Trump and much of his administration believes in tariffs as an economic policy. We've all heard Donald Trump say tariff is the most beautiful word in the English language. And I do think the business community. So look, look, we, we had the stock market plummeted. We saw massive losses in the stock market. We may well see more massive losses than the stock market. I think the business community was shocked by the magnitude of these community of these tariffs, by the breadth of them. Look, as we talked about in our earlier podcast on tariffs, what I've urged the President is two things. Number one, focus on China, because delinking our economy from China is emphatically in America's national security interest and economic security interests. And number two, focus on reciprocity. And the reason I've said focus on reciprocity is the upside scenario I just talked about, which is by focusing on reciprocity, if you incentivize other countries to lower their tariffs and we lower ours, that's a win win for America. But the thing to understand, I believe the business community has systematically underestimated how much President Trump and the Trump administration views tariffs as an ongoing, permanent feature of our economic policy. I can tell you virtually every time I talk with the President, I talk with the president frequently, he goes on at length, have you seen the billions of dollars, the hundreds of billions of dollars, the trillions of dollars we are raising and are going to raise from tariffs? Now, I think a lot of people said, oh, he's going to threaten these tariffs, but he's going to lift them very quickly. If he does that, great. If he leaves them in place and we just have constant tariffs, that is a massive tax increase on the American people. And I think many people are underestimating that. The president believes, and many members of his administration believe that tariffs are just a fabulous feature of the American economy. They hearken Back to William McKinley when he was president. Now, look, we used to have, before the income tax tariffs were the main source of revenue for the federal government. And they want to go back to that scenario. And I gotta say, we're gonna find out, because, listen, President Trump believes in this. I think in the first term, he wanted to impose policies like this, and I think many Republican senators talked him out of it, pressed him back, and said, look, they're real risk. Don't do this. I think in the second term, Trump feels unchained. He feels unburdened. He's like, screw it, let's go. And he believes it. I do not believe.

[Ted Cruz]

And by the way, that's where the threat could actually work. Right? Because every other country's looking at this saying, hey, like, surely he's not gonna do it. He does it. They're like, well, he's gonna flinch quickly. There's no indication he's gonna flinch per se, quickly.

[Kathryn Marr]

Right.

[Ted Cruz]

I think the real threat of it is the fact that he's actually willing to go through with it.

[Kathryn Marr]

Look, I want this to succeed. I want it to succeed. But my definition of succeed may be different than the White House's. My definition of succeed is dramatically lower tariffs abroad and result in dramatically lowering tariffs here. That's success for the American workers, American businesses, American growth, American prosperity, American. That's a great outcome. But, look, I think we're gonna find out. 100 years ago, the US economy didn't have the leverage to have the kind of impact we do now. But I worry there are voices within the administration that want to see these tariffs continue forever and ever and ever. They don't want to lower them. They think they're great. And what is particularly, I think, has startled some observers, it wasn't just directed at China. It wasn't just directed at bad actors. It was directed against everybody. That is, the breadth of it is enormous, and it carries upside, but it also carries real risk.

[Ted Cruz]

All right, let's talk timeline. And your definition of short term or long term, what does that timeline look like? Because obviously, people are trying to figure out weathering the storm.

[Kathryn Marr]

Right?

[Ted Cruz]

You talked about supply chain, and the car is a great example. You don't feel the pain till, let's say, June. All right, so it gives us a few months for things to kind of work its way through, work it out. Is that a timeline of short term? And then after that, it's considered. All right, this is long term. What is that timeline, in your opinion?

[Kathryn Marr]

Well, let's be clear. The timeline was immediate. So let me read from The Wall Street Journal headline trump Tariffs and dow to a 1600 point decline. Dollar slumps. Asian stocks hit for a second day. Fears of recession rise. And here's what the Wall street journal reports. Quote US markets suffered their steepest decline since 2020 on fears President Trump's new tariffs plan will trigger a global trade war and drag the US Economy into recession. Major stock indexes dropped as much as 6% on Thursday. Stocks lost roughly $3.1 trillion in market value, their largest one day decline since March 2020. Stock index futures drifted lower Thursday evening in stocks in Japan were hit for a second day as Friday training began. In Thursday's market plunge, The Dow industrials dropped 1679 points, or 4%. The tech heavy Nasdaq, which powered the market higher for years, was down 6%, pulled lower by big declines in Nvidia, Apple and Amazon.com, the S&P 500, which fell 4.8%. And the other benchmarks suffered their sharpest decline since the early days of the COVID 19 pandemic. The dollar, meanwhile, tumbled with the Wall Street Journal dollar index suffering its sharpest decline since 2023. Now those are immediate hits. And understand, look, it's easy to say, okay, fine, you know, that's just rich people. Look, at this point, a majority of Americans have money invested in 401ks and IRAs. And so that's impacting everyone. And people don't necessarily follow their 401k on a daily basis. Many people see their 401k statement when it comes out at the end of the quarter. A whole lot of people are looking at that. And we'll see if that's a temporary one day hit. But if it continues to slide over the next few days, that's not waiting for six months to see the impact that's freaking people out now. And so the consequences of this are real. And I want to be clear about something. Look, it used to be conventional wisdom in Republican politics that free trade is wonderful and we should just have no tariffs and lower tariffs. And that was almost every one.

[Ted Cruz]

Can I ask you, this is a question. I'm just going to ask it because I know there's people listening. They want to know what the definition, your definition of free trade is.

[Kathryn Marr]

That used to be conventional wisdom. And I want to give Donald Trump credit for something really significant, which is he's changed the debate on trade fundamentally. And so I believe in free trade, but I also believe in fair trade. And so when I talk about reciprocity, Donald Trump has made a Very clear point, and it's a powerful point, which is many countries on earth have been taking advantage of the United States and have been imposing really high tariffs and barriers to US Goods while having free access to the American markets. And that is unfair. And so I love that President Trump is willing to use leverage to lower tariffs. I think that's great. And that really is a change in the debate. Ten years ago, there was nobody in the Republican Party making that argument, and that is the direct result of President Trump's leadership. That's a good thing. Saying we should be treated fairly. That is a good thing. That is a very different proposition from saying doesn't matter if other countries lower their tariffs. We're going to impose tariffs on everybody because we think tariffs should be the principal vehicle of funding the economy. If the outcome of this is a multi trillion dollar tax increase on American consumers, I think that that is really consequential and really, really harmful.

[Ted Cruz]

So let me ask you one other question, and that is, if these tariffs don't change, Senator, then what would the impact be?

[Kathryn Marr]

Well, let me share an analysis that a group called the Tax foundation did. Now, the Tax foundation is a think tank based in Washington. They're very good. They're economic experts. They analyze tax policies. They have proven to be incredibly accurate in terms of measuring the impact of taxes. Here's what the Tax foundation has assessed from the announcement this week. They say if these stay in effect, the average tariff rate on all imports will rise from 2.5% in 2024 to 18.8%, the highest average rate since 1933 under the tariffs announced for 2025. The consequence of those tariffs, they will cause imports to fall by slightly more than $900 billion in 2025, or 28%. So that's what they're predicting, is that imports drop $900 billion, 28% this year. They also say the newly announced tariffs on April 2 will raise $1.8 trillion in revenue over the next decade and will shrink US GDP by 0.5%. The April 2 escalation, they note, comes in addition to the previously announced tariffs, which will raise another $1.3 trillion in revenue over the next decade and shrink US GDP by 0.3% altogether. Trump's tariffs will raise nearly $3.2 trillion in revenue over the next decade AND reduce US GDP by 0.8%. They further project the tariffs will reduce after tax income by an average of 2.1% and amount to an average tax increase of more than $2,100 per U.S. household in 2025. Now, to be clear, that's a prediction. If these tariffs stay in place, if they don't change, if the upside that I described happens, if foreign countries slash their tariffs and Trump in turn slash these tariffs, none of those numbers hold. Instead, I think we see an enormous economic boom. But if that doesn't happen, if these tariffs stay in place as an ongoing economic policy, we're facing very real and I think very detrimental consequences.

[Ted Cruz]

As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day. You're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to again, the Ben Ferguson Podcast and we will see you back here on Monday morning.

[Rodney Williams]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with [e-mail] I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Kathryn Marr]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[Travis Holloway]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

[Unknown]

What happens when it doesn't go right?

[Kathryn Marr]

How do you cope with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Weld Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Unknown]

You know how we're always talking about what's next? Well, I found it. It's called Formula E. Forget everything you think you know about racing. This isn't just cars going fast. It's like a supercomputer on wheels. The tech is insane and the drivers, they're like chess grandmasters at 200 miles per hour. You've got to see it. Trust me, you'll be hooked. Follow Formula E live on Roku next race.

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[Kathryn Marr]

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[Kathryn Marr]

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[Ben Ferguson]

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[Kathryn Marr]

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