Dems & Media Urge Biden to Issue Far-Reaching Pardons of EVERYBODY-Entire Biden Family & Senior Biden Officials

Summary

Verdict with Ted Cruz: Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Verdict with Ted Cruz
• Host/Author: Premiere Networks
• Description: Join Senator Ted Cruz and co-host Ben Ferguson as they break down the most important news stories of the day and reveal what they mean for you. On "Verdict with Ted Cruz,” you will go behind the scenes of the political debates that define our country.
• Episode: Dems & Media Urge Biden to Issue Far-Reaching Pardons of EVERYBODY-Entire Biden Family & Senior Biden Officials
• Release Date: December 4, 2024

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Introduction to the Pardon Controversy

Ben Ferguson opens the episode by highlighting what he describes as one of the "craziest stories" of recent times: the media and Democratic Party pushing the White House to issue widespread pardons. Ferguson emphasizes the significance of this move, stating, “They’re claiming that it’s Trump’s alleged enemies list, but it’s not. It’s their list of people they’re afraid might get in trouble with the law. This is shocking” (01:34).

Biden's Pardon of Hunter Biden

Senator Ted Cruz delves into the fallout from President Joe Biden’s pardon of his son, Hunter Biden. He references a federal judge’s stern criticism of Biden’s press statement accompanying the pardon, labeling it "completely false and dishonest" (02:03). Cruz underscores the potential abuse of presidential power, stating, “It is an incredibly open, brazen invitation for Joe Biden to abuse his power, for him to continue the weaponization of law enforcement” (02:03).

Democrats and Media Push for Mass Pardons

Ferguson discusses the expanding list of individuals Democrats and the media are urging President Biden to pardon, including entire Biden family members and senior officials. He points out the rapid addition of names to this list, questioning the motives behind such an extensive blanket pardon proposal. He remarks, “They started adding names to the list and saying this is somehow Trump’s list, even though they’re the ones creating it out of thin air” (05:00).

Cruz responds by asserting that Democrats are panicking about the incoming Department of Justice leadership under Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Cash Patel. He claims that Cruz and Ferguson had predicted Biden’s pardon of Hunter Biden a year prior, emphasizing the president's dishonesty throughout the process. Cruz states, “Everybody knew he was lying. He knew he was lying. The people listening to him knew he was lying” (06:10).

Judicial and Whistleblower Reactions

Cruz cites Judge Mark Scarcey's opinion, highlighting the dishonesty in Biden's explanation for pardoning Hunter Biden. The judge criticized Biden's assertions that Hunter was treated differently due to his familial relationship, stating, “In short, a press release is not a pardon. The Constitution provides the President with broad authority to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States. But nowhere does the Constitution give the President the authority to rewrite history” (02:03).

Ben Ferguson brings attention to IRS whistleblower Joseph Zler’s condemnation of Biden’s pardon. Zler, a Democrat who believes in the rule of law, called Biden’s justification “completely ludicrous” and expressed disappointment that Hunter Biden received what Zler considers unfair treatment compared to ordinary taxpayers (14:47).

Implications of Mass Pardons

Cruz elaborates on the broader implications of mass pardons, suggesting that such actions represent unprecedented levels of public corruption. He draws parallels between Biden’s pardon of Hunter Biden and historical instances where political figures used pardons to shield themselves and their allies from accountability.

Ferguson highlights the orchestrated nature of the Democrats' push for mass pardons, describing it as a concerted effort to normalize the idea. He warns of the potential long-term consequences, questioning whether future Democratic administrations might abuse pardon powers similarly.

Notable Media Perspectives

The episode features excerpts from MSNBC and The Atlantic, where commentators advocate for President Biden to use his pardon power extensively to protect his allies and critics of former President Donald Trump. Paul Rosenweig, writing in The Atlantic, argues that it is “personally perfectly reasonable for Biden to pardon any Trump critic” for the sake of political expediency (28:19).

Cruz criticizes Rosenweig’s stance, labeling him as part of an orchestrated effort to undermine the rule of law. He points out the irony and hypocrisy in Rosenweig’s arguments, especially considering Rosenweig’s history of attempting to disbar Republican lawyers supportive of Trump (31:04).

Weaponization of Law Enforcement

Cruz discusses what he terms the "weaponization of law enforcement," highlighting how Democrats and media figures use legal tools to target political opponents while seeking pardons for their allies. He accuses the Biden administration of protecting its members from accountability, stating, “They want Biden to issue pardons so that nobody who committed federal crimes is ever, ever, ever held accountable” (45:28).

Final Thoughts and Future Implications

As the episode concludes, Ferguson emphasizes the severity of the situation and the need for continued vigilance. He urges listeners to share the podcast to raise awareness about the potential abuse of presidential pardon powers.

Cruz reiterates his concerns about the Biden administration’s unprecedented actions and the threat they pose to the integrity of the legal system and American democracy. He underscores the importance of holding leaders accountable and resisting efforts to normalize such abuses of power.

Notable Quotes

• Ben Ferguson ([01:34]): “They’re claiming that it’s Trump’s alleged enemies list, but it’s not. It’s their list of people they’re afraid might get in trouble with the law. This is shocking.”

• Senator Ted Cruz ([02:03]): “It is an incredibly open, brazen invitation for Joe Biden to abuse his power, for him to continue the weaponization of law enforcement.”

• Senator Ted Cruz ([06:10]): “Everybody knew he was lying. He knew he was lying. The people listening to him knew he was lying.”

• Joseph Zler ([14:47]): “I honestly think that's completely ludicrous. I'm a Democrat and I'm a person that believes in the rule of law.”

• Paul Rosenweig ([28:19]): “It is personally perfectly reasonable for Biden to pardon any Trump critic and says, well, it’s a cost issue because you'll have to get a lawyer.”

• Senator Ted Cruz ([45:28]): “They want Biden to issue pardons so that nobody who committed federal crimes is ever, ever, ever held accountable.”

Conclusion

In this episode of "Verdict with Ted Cruz," Senator Cruz and Ben Ferguson dissect the controversial move by President Joe Biden to pardon Hunter Biden and the subsequent push by Democrats and the media for extensive pardons across the board. They argue that these actions represent a significant abuse of presidential power, undermining the rule of law and setting a dangerous precedent for future administrations. Through detailed analysis and notable quotes, the discussion paints a picture of political maneuvering aimed at protecting allies and silencing opponents, raising serious concerns about the integrity of America's legal and political systems.

Transcript

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[Ben Ferguson]

Welcome. It is verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you and Senator, this might be one of the craziest stories that I've seen in a while. The media and Democrats are now urging the White House to pardon a list that they're putting together. They're claiming that it's Trump's alleged enemies list, but it's not. It's their list of people they're afraid might get in trouble with the law. This is shocking.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, the fallout from Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden continues. One of the things we saw this week is the federal judge overseeing the criminal tax case against Hunter Biden slammed President Joe Biden for his incredibly dishonest press statement that accompanied the pardon and laid out that it is completely false and dishonest. We're going to talk about that and then we're going to talk about what you just mentioned that we are seeing a full on lobbying effort by Democrats and by the corporate media they want Joe Biden to pardon everyone. They want him to issue blanket pardons across the board. It is an incredibly open, brazen invitation for Joe Biden to abuse his power, for him to continue the weaponization of law enforcement. You know, there are two components to weaponization. One is targeting your enemies, but the other is protecting your friends. And the corporate media is being quite open that they want Joe Biden on his way out to protect all of his friends in a way that would be not only utterly corrupt, but without precedent in our nation's history. We're going to break that down in detail.

[Ben Ferguson]

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, I think they are panicking. I think they are terrified about the incoming Department of Justice, about the incoming leadership of the FBI. They're terrified about Pam Bondi as attorney general. They're terrified about Cash Patel as the director of the FBI, and they're scrambling to seek cover. You know, I will say the Hunter Biden pardon is something that on this podcast, we predicted a year ago, in January of this year, we predicted that Joe Biden would pardon Hunter Biden. And in fact, we predicted that it was going to be in December of 2024. Well, as it so happened, it was December 1st that Joe Biden issued the pardon. He did it after spending an entire year lying about it over and over and over again saying he would not pardon Hunter, he would not pardon Hunter. Kareem Jean Pierre, the White House press secretary, repeatedly just flat out lied. Multiple Democrats went on TV and flat out lied. The media flat out lied. And Ben, we analyze this in depth in Monday's podcast. And by the way, if you didn't listen to Monday's podcast, I'd encourage you go back and listen to it. It was one of our most downloaded podcasts we've ever done because it really, it breaks down how this was an absolute abuse of power. And it was also completely predictable. When Joe Biden was saying, I'm not going to pardon Hunter, he was lying. Everybody knew he was lying. He knew he was lying. The people listening to him knew he was lying. The reporters knew he was lying. Karine Jean Pierre knew he was lying. The Democrat senators who echoed those claims knew he was lying. And yet they were perfectly willing to lie as a political matter I got to see.

[Ben Ferguson]

And by the way, it even came out since we did the last show, reporting now from NBC News. And it was also reported by the New York Times that they were lying and planning for this pardon all the way back in June. And of course they were sources, but I mean, they were going on tv, including the media, which is state sponsored media, when they're doing this, lying deliberately, the American people knowing that they were already planning for this.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, and it was in June of this year that I said on this podcast, the odds that Joe Biden will pardon Hunter Biden are 100%. It is absolutely certain he is lying. And everyone knows he's lying. Now they're quite open about, oh, yeah, we lied about it. Of course we did. And they're just trying to say, well, he's just being a dad. Every dad loves his son. Wouldn't you do this? And let's be clear, number one, every dad would not lie to the American people for a year about it. If you were going to do it, then you shouldn't lie about it. But number two, this is about protecting Joe. This is about protecting his own corruption. And I gotta say. All right, so the federal judge who's overseeing the criminal tax case, Judge Mark Scarcey in California, slammed Joe Biden for his statement on the pardon. And I gotta say, the judge's comments, I've never seen anything like this in my 20 plus years of practicing law. I've never seen anything remotely like this. Let me read to you from the judge's opinion that was issued. For example, the president asserts Mr. Biden, quote, was treated differently from others, quote, who were late paying their taxes because of serious addictions, implying that Mr. Biden was among those individuals who untimely paid taxes due to addiction. But he is not. In his pretrial filings, Mr. Biden represented that he, quote, was severely addicted to alcohol and drugs through May of 2019. Upon pleading guilty to the charges in this case, Mr. Biden admitted that he engaged in tax evasion after this period of addiction by wrongfully deducting his business expenses, items he knew were personal expenses, including luxury clothing, escort services, and his daughter's law school tuition. And Mr. Biden admitted that he, quote, had sufficient funds available to him to pay some or all of his outstanding taxes when they were due, but that he did not make payments towards his tax liabilities, even, quote, well after he had regained his sobriety, instead electing to, quote, spend large sums to maintain his lifestyle. In 2020, by the way, in 2020, that would be when his father, Joe Biden, was running for president. According to the President. This is going back to Joe Biden's press release that accompanied the. The. The pardon. Quote, no reasonable person who looks at the facts of Mr. Biden's case can reach any other conclusion than Mr. Biden was singled out only because he is the President's son, end quote. But two federal judges expressly rejected Mr. Biden's arguments that the government prosecuted Mr. Biden because of his familiar relation to the President. And the President's own Attorney General and Department of justice personnel oversaw the investigation leading to the charges. In the President's estimation, this legion of civil servants, the undersigned included, are unreasonable people. In short, a press release is not a pardon. The Constitution provides the President with broad authority to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States. But nowhere does the Constitution give the President the authority to rewrite history. I gotta say, Ben, I've never seen a federal judge take the bark off the sitting President of the United States the way that judge did. Did he just said, joe Biden is flat out lying and he is dishonest. And I got to say, the judge is exactly right. Every word of that opinion is absolutely right. And Joe Biden again, understand for a year when he said he wasn't going to pardon his son, he was lying. And understand today when he issued the pardon, Joe Biden is still lying. And that's what the federal judge just said unequivocally.

[Ben Ferguson]

And they seem to just be laughing in the face of justice and laughing in the face of Americans, by the way, that have. That have been held accountable. There's been a lot of whistleblowers that have come forward saying how angry they are over this. There's people that have gone to jail for less than what Hunter Biden did on the tax issues that are talking about how. Why is it that they had to go to jail for years and this guy gets to walk. There seems to be a lot of not just nepotism here, but anger from Americans that have had to face the music when they've committed many of the same crimes that he was accused of committing and had been convicted of.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah. And not only is the federal judge angry, but the IRS whistleblower reacted to Biden's claim. And town hall reported said IRS whistleblower reacts to Biden's ludicrous claim justifying Hunter's pardon. On Sunday night, President Joe Biden issued a sweeping pardon for his son, Hunter Biden. It covers all potential crimes committed between 2014 and 2024. And the the it and it goes through the quotes. But IRS investigator and whistleblower Joseph Zler, who testified in 2023 about the special treatment being handed to Hunter by the Department of Justice, blasted Biden's claims as ludicrous. And here, here's the quote that Zler said. Quote I honestly think that's completely ludicrous. I'm a Democrat and I'm a person that believes in the rule of law. When you look at what he was charged with, criminal tax evasion and what he pled guilty to, there are thousands of taxpayers who honestly file their taxes. They pay their taxes on time, and I think they should be disappointed by this because they're held to a standard that's different from the political elite. This was felony conduct after he was sober. It was clever that the President's letter didn't bring up any of that conduct. I gotta say, that's exactly right.

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah. And I gotta say it, it is reminiscent what Joe Biden did with his son Hunter is reminiscent of how criminals will sometimes use juveniles to commit crimes because they know that juveniles, as a general matter, can't be held very accountable. They'll serve minimal prison sentences. So, you know, drug cartels will use teenagers as drug mules because they know the juvenile can get off with a very light punishment. In this case, Joe Biden was willing to use his drug addict son as the bag man, as the one collecting all the cash. And to be clear, it wasn't just cash that went to Hunter. Hunter made millions of dollars. I mean, he was paying for prostitutes out of this. He was paying for drugs out of this. And to be clear, Hunter was not working for our allies. He wasn't working for France or Canada or the United Kingdom. He was working for oligarchs, corrupt oligarchs in Russia, in Ukraine, and Communist China. He sought out those who were enemies of America, and he sold favors from his dad, and it was incredibly lucrative. And there's a cynicism to using someone. And listen, the strategy was always, well, if we get Caught, you know, blame Hunter. Well, he's an addict. And so that's the problem there. It's all about covering up Joe's misconduct. That's why this is an issue of public concern. If this were just some poor sad sack who was struggling with addiction, we wouldn't be talking about it. But it is, because this is public corruption by the President of the United States and by previously the Vice President of the United States, because much of this corruption happened while Joe Biden was vice president. And I gotta say, what's happening now, I've never seen anything like it. Democrats and the corporate media, they are openly urging Joe Biden issue more pardons. And we talked about in Monday's podcast how right now Hunter has essentially a carte blanche for all. Any and every crime he has committed, every federal crime he's committed for 11 years, it's just wiped away. And the pardon power is that broad that it can do exactly that. But we pointed out that Joe Biden's brother faces real exposure. Well, I guess this should have been predictable. Although I will say maybe I wasn't cynical enough because I didn't predict it on Monday's pod. Suddenly the media is saying, pardon Joe Biden's brother. Pardon Joe Biden himself. Pardon everyone involved in the corruption. Pardon everyone involved in the FBI. Pardon everyone who abused their power. Pardon everyone who committed any criminal offense whatsoever. And I want you to listen to. Let's start with. This is an excerpt from MSNBC this week urging pardons across the board of clemency.

[MSNBC Commentator]

I hope that President Biden will also issue preemptive pardons to all of those people threatened by the unjustice of what will become the Department of Justice in the Trump administration. That, of course, includes Jack Smith and.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

All of his staff, many Department of Justice lawyers.

[MSNBC Commentator]

It includes President Biden himself. Although we don't know that anyone can legally pardon themselves.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

He will need a pardon because he.

[MSNBC Commentator]

Is going to be harassed and charged.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

For no crimes whatsoever. Donald Trump has promised that, if I'm.

[Ben Ferguson]

Reading this correctly, she just called for Joe Biden to pardon his entire administration because they believe that they, the entire administration needs these pardons because of the activities they were involved in. They're literally admitting to criminal activity.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, and unfortunately, this was the most lawless administration we have ever seen. And I talked about at the beginning of this podcast, there are at least two components of weaponizing law enforcement. One component, and the most visible component, is using law enforcement, using the doj, using the FBI, using the CIA, using the Alphabet soup. Of the federal government to go after your political opponents, most notably to indict and prosecute Donald Trump four separate times, which, which is what the Democrats have done both federally and at the state level. But, but also using it to go after pro life protesters. Using it to go after people who engaged in peaceful protest on January 6, using it as an excuse, using it to refuse to prosecute people who were violating federal law, committing felonies by threatening and protesting outside of Supreme Court justices home. Merrick Garland refused to enforce the law and just said, nope, we don't enforce that law. Why? Because he disagreed with the Supreme Court and he wanted those judges threatened. He wanted their families threatened. That's one component. But a second component is protecting the political allies of the president. And that weaponization has happened at great level. Look, the IRS whistleblower testified, for example, that the special counsel, David Weiss, that was investigating Hunter Biden was repeatedly told there were boundaries. He could not look into the big guy. He could not look into Joe Biden, that they were going to protect Joe Biden. There would be no investigation. So, for example, the WhatsApp message that Hunter Biden texted to the Chinese businessman, the Chinese communist saying, I'm sitting next to my father and you pay us millions of dollars right now or my father is going to retaliate against you. Well, the investigators said, listen, we would like to subpoena the GPS data for Hunter Biden's phone and Joe Biden's phone. You could determine were they in fact sitting next to each other or not. There's an answer. That answer can be found. It can be found through a subpoena. And yet the Biden Justice Department said, no, we don't want to know if Joe Biden was sitting next to Hunter while he was shaking down Chinese communists threatening retribution from his father. We don't want to know if Joe Biden knew that. You're not allowed to ask. That's an example of protecting your political allies. Well, now the press is being even more brazen. The Democrats are being more brazen and saying, look, there are a whole bunch of people who committed lawless conduct. And we're about to have a Department of justice at FBI who is willing to investigate and criminal conduct and willing to enforce the law regardless of party. I don't want them to target these guys because they're Democrats. I want them to enforce the law. If people committed criminal offenses, did so deliberately and willingly, they should face consequences. And the Democrats are terrified out of their mind. And they are openly urging Biden pardon.

[Ben Ferguson]

Everybody, by the way, it's not just the lady that we played earlier. This was clearly an orchestrated effort in the last 24 hours.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yes.

[Ben Ferguson]

To, to normalize this idea. And I want to go through the list and some of the tweets out there in another, in another piece of audio I want to play for you. But before I do that, I want to tell you about our friends over at Patriot Mobile. If you are like me and you are sick and tired of giving your money to companies that fight against your values, then one big category you need to take a look at is your cell phone provider. You may not realize, but Big Mobile is giving big donations and having a big impact when it comes to supporting Democratic causes, candidates and radical organizations, organizations that are paying for abortions, for example. Now if you don't want your money going there, then you need to know about Patriot Mobile. They've been around for more than a decade and, and many Americans, they're just sick and tired of companies using their dollars against them. And that is why Patriot Mobile was created because they said we need to have companies that still believe in America and our Constitution. Patriot Mobile, well, they're on the front lines and they take about 5% of your bill every month at no extra cost to you. And they fight for first and our second amendment rights. They fight for the safety of life and they stand with our military. Our first responders are wounded warriors. So if you want to take a stand for conservative causes and put America first, then switch to Patriot Mobile today you're going to get the same nationwide coverage as the big providers because Patriot Mobile operates across all three major networks. So the coverage you have now, you're going to get the same coverage when you switch. Plus they back their service with a coverage guarantee. They have 100% US based customer service team and that means it's easy to switch. They'll find the best plan for you and your needs. You keep your same number you've got now. Keep your phone you have now or upgrade to a new one. All you got to do is go to patriot mobile.com verdict. That's patriot mobile.com verdict. Or call them 972 Patriot. And if you call them right now, you're going to get a free month of service when you use the offer code verdict. So call them 972 Patriot and make a difference to every phone call you make or patriot mobile.com verdict. All right, so let's go back to this list. And it was a list that Democrats put out. They started adding names to the list and saying this is somehow Trump's list, even though they're the ones creating out of thin air so early in the day. Yesterday, it started with, well, it needs to. The president needs to pardon himself. That also means he would need to pardon his brother. And then they added Joe Biden to the list. And then the list just started expanding to, like, everyone that worked for him that may have done something wrong or illegal. Alex Mayorkas, for example, was on the list. James Comey on the list. Andrew McCabe on the list. Peter Struck, you may remember that guy who said, we're going to stop back in 16, we're going to stop Donald Trump from becoming president. Bruce Orr, Nelly Orr, Rod Rosenstein. And then it expanded from there to the point where the Atlantic has an article saying there needs to be mass pardons. And this conversation took place on msnbc.

[MSNBC Commentator]

You argued we defend norms by defending norms, not preaching them. A lot is happens between now and then. And I wonder how you're thinking about the president's pardon power today and how he should wield it.

[Paul Rosenweig]

Well, back in 2017, I thought that Trump was an aberration, an unusual and black swan, if you will. And my thought was that you had to defend the norms of the rule of law, good governance, and the only way to do that was to maintain them, even in the face of his aberrational behavior. Today, I think we know that Trump is not an aberration. He's a phenomenon. He's a movement. And as such, what we have to do is recalibrate how we respond to that. And it now strikes me as essential to at least begin to play to the edge of the field.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Paul Rosenweig]

To go as far as the law permits in combating the authoritarian excesses of Trump. And the way I wrote about in the Atlantic is, is the pardon power A pardon for Hunter Biden, a pardon for Trump's critics would be completely normative, breaking, and it would be out of character, out of historical tradition. But at this point, I was listening to your earlier, your earlier broadcast. You were talking about Kash Patel. He's got a list of 60 people he wants to prosecute. That's a real list. Will he do all of them? I don't know. Will there be resistance at the FBI? Probably. But, you know, one of the realities of being investigated is that investigation has a cost. Even if you're not prosecuted, in the end, you have to hire a lawyer. The mental costs, the time, the resources. And so it strikes me as perfectly reasonable to ask, what can President Biden do within the bounds of law, even if it would not be normatively traditional, to save his allies from that. And the answer is obviously, pardon them.

[Ben Ferguson]

Let's just stop there. And he said more, but let's just die. Let's break that down, Senator. He's saying it's personally perfectly reasonable for Biden to pardon any Trump critic and says, well, it's a cost issue because you'll have to get a lawyer. Well, no crap. Like everybody around Trump knows that they tried to financially break. So many people around Donald Trump that worked at the White House tried to financially ruin them. I have friends, I'm not going to say their names, who worked at the White House who were strapped with legal bills over a half a million dollars, just having to answer questions in and around what happened on January 6, even though they weren't involved in it.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, that's absolutely right. But I got to say, the hypocrisy is even more rich than that. So the person, the man whose voice you're hearing is a guy named Paul Rosenweig. Now, who is Paul Rosenweig? Well, he was a deputy assistant secretary in the Department of Homeland Security under George W. Bush. And listen, I know Paul a little bit. I don't know him well, but I know him socially around D.C. lawyer circles. He wears a bow tie every day. And he was one of the like, he would run around Federalist Society events. And he was part of the sort of Republican lawyer cadre during the George W. Bush campaign. He is also someone who Donald Trump has broken his brain. And Trump derangement syndrome is a very real phenomenon. And he is now advocating that Biden pardon everybody, pardon every critic of Trump, pardon every member of the Cabinet, pardon his entire family, pardon anyone who may have committed any crime because he doesn't want anybody to be held account for breaking the law. Now, I'm going to tell you what the particular irony is. Paul Rosenweig is also one of the leaders of a group called the 65 Project. Now, what is the 65 Project? It is this left wing group and it's Paul Rosenweig. And it's also David Brock, who was Hillary Clinton's attack dog, who went around filing complaints trying to get Republican lawyers disbarred for supporting Donald Trump and Paul Rosenweich. His group filed a complaint with the Texas Bar asking that I be disbarred. Understand, this guy went before the Texas.

[Ben Ferguson]

Bar so that I remember that story, but this is the guy that was actually doing it.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yes, yes, he was doing it. And so I'm going to Read to you from the New York Times story when they filed this complaint. And it says, this is a quote from the complaint, quote, Mr. Cruz played a leading role in the effort to overturn the 2020 elections. And while the same can be said about several other elected officials, Mr. Cruz's involvement was manifestly different. This is what the complaint says. He chose to take on the role of lawyer and agreed to represent Mr. Trump and Pennsylvania Republicans in litigation before the US Supreme Court. In doing so, Mr. Cruz moved beyond his position as United States Senator and sought to use more than his Twitter account and media appearances to support Mr. Trump's anti Democratic mission. So understand their complaint is that when I was asked, when the appeal in 2020 challenging Pennsylvania's violating the Pennsylvania Constitution and changing the law in Pennsylvania, when that was appealed to the Supreme Court, I was asked if the court takes it, would you be willing to argue the case? And Donald Trump asked me that and I said yes, if the court takes it, if four justices decide they want to hear this case, and I believe they should have heard the Pennsylvania case, that I'll do the oral argument. Their argument, Paul Rosenweg's argument, is because I said yes, I would represent a client before the Supreme Court, I should be disbarred. So he's talking about the cost of frivolous complaints and attacking people. Well, he was one of the point people doing it. And by the way, thankfully, the Texas bar is not an insane woke nest of lunatics. And so what did the Texas bar do? They threw their complaint out as frivolous and baseless. So it got thrown out. It was absurd. But this is someone who was asking that I be barred from practicing law. And by the way, this group has gone after over and over and over again lawyers who dared to represent Donald Trump. So they're willing. When we talk about weaponization, weaponization of law enforcement and weaponization of law, I gotta say Paul Rosenweig is a great example of that. He's happy to go and attack and try to bankrupt people. You mentioned the, look, at the end of the day, if they come after me, I am a sitting senator. I have the ability to raise money, I can defend myself. I am not a particularly faint flower. I am not a vulnerable person who, if they want to come after me, let's go. And they're going to regret picking that fight. But there are a bunch of people in the Trump administration who were 20 somethings or 30 somethings, they were young people and these bastards went after them, tried to bankrupt them. They had hundreds of thousands or more in legal expenses, and they tried to make it. And by the way, these are the same people that publicly said, if you worked for Trump, we're going to do everything we can to make you unemployable, to pressure law firms, they shouldn't hire you, to pressure companies, they shouldn't hire you. They wanted to destroy anyone who was willing to work with Donald Trump. That's the viciousness. And at the same time, they're urging Joe Biden, pardon everybody because people who actually committed felonies, we don't want them investigated and we certainly don't want them prosecuted.

[Ben Ferguson]

It's amazing the law fair here. And I want you to hear the second part of what he had to say as well, because this goes back to, I think, the broader theme here, which is everyone that we believe that may have done something wrong, we need to protect them now so that Republicans cannot look at the crimes that we committed and prosecute us. Keep listening.

[MSNBC Commentator]

Yeah, I mean, it seems, and to you, and I think to other folks as well, that the, the argument about institutional preservation in this moment is best relegated to academics and that in reality, it's time to play political hardball. And it sounds like you're extending that not just to the pardon power, but to other levers that the Democrats might be able to pull. I'll read an excerpt from your Atlantic piece. It has become painfully self evident that Democratic self restraint is a form of unilateral disarmament that neither persuades Trump to refrain from bad behavior nor wins points among the undecided. It is time, well past time, for responsible Democrats to use every tool in their toolkit. Does any part of that, I guess, worry you? You know, I mean, one could have said the Democrats, when they were in control of the Senate, should have gotten rid of the filibuster and done stuff. Well, now it seems like the filibuster is the only thing that's actually going to stop Trump from enacting probably the broadest, most pernicious parts of his agenda. So how do you, I mean, how do you think about the cost benefit analysis here?

[Paul Rosenweig]

Well, of course it worries me. It has to. It has to worry any sensible thinking person to argue for breaching norms that have guided our country for 250 years. On the other hand, I don't think the Democratic self restraint is what is going to stop Trump from acting. If in the end, Trump and the Republican majority think that the filibuster is a barrier to whatever it is that they want, for example, they're going to get rid of it anyway, whether or not the Democrats had done so in the, in the prior Congress. And so it strikes me as essential to begin trying to take steps that can't be reversed or irreversible steps in defense of, say, voting rights. For example, expanding the franchise, guaranteeing federally against state interference. You would still have to contend, obviously, with the Supreme Court. But for two years, the Democrats had a majority in both houses. And instead of doing transgressive normative things like changing the electoral rules to prevent Trump's cheating, they did normal Democratic things. They passed the Inflation Reduction act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure act, and all good things, I'm sure, from their perspective, but they thought that that would be how to reclaim America. And turned out they were wrong.

[Ben Ferguson]

I mean, Senator, as you just listened to this, you want to talk about the threats to democracy? Holy crap.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So, look, I gotta admit, I don't know this bowtied clown. I've met him once or twice over the last 20 years, but I don't know him at any personal level. But he is either deliberately dishonest or profoundly ignorant, because like one statement he made there that is just laughing, laughably false, he's like, well, if Trump wants to get rid of the filibuster, he just will. I'm gonna quantify to you. So I said six months ago, the odds that Joe Biden will grant a part pardon Hunter Biden were 100%. I'm gonna give you the odds that the filibuster will be ended in the next two years with a Republican majority in the Senate. And they are the obverse of 100%. They are 0.00000%. There is literally not a.00001% chance it is. It will not happen. There are not 10 votes to end the filibuster. And he's just. There's something about Trump derangement syndrome that it's bizarre and pathological, that all people afflicted with it can say, is Orange man bad. Orange man bad. And there's also, look, I gotta say, Sigmund Freud has gotta be spinning in his grave, because the left and the Never Trump, and unfortunately the Never Trump Republicans is a really tiny sliver of kind of DC folks who've lost their minds, but they engage in a degree of Freudian projection that is amazing. So, for example, all of these people beat their chest and say, we love democracy. But they also are saying, well, there are aspects of Trump's agenda that are horrific. Well, there was an election in November. And the voters voted for Trump and he laid out what his agenda was. And the voters said, yeah, that's what we want. There were seven battleground states. Donald Trump won all seven. It wasn't close, it wasn't ambiguous, it wasn't clear and overwhelming result. And they also gave Republicans a majority in the Senate and the House. And you know what, msnbc, they don't care about democracy. These never Trump loons. They don't care about democracy. They don't care about the mandate from the people that the voters have decided. They're not saying, you know what, but the voters decided they agree with this agenda. They want the border secured, they want integrity restored to the Department of Justice and the FBI. They don't care about that. And I've got to say, you know, I'm reminded. So do you remember at the end of the Trump the first term, there were lots of stories, and by the way, MSNBC breathlessly reported it, about Republicans who were coming to Trump and saying, please give me a pardon, please give me a pardon. And all these different Republicans were allegedly mostly House Republicans were alleged to have asked for a pardon. And by the way, it was 24.

[Ben Ferguson]

7, they were losing their minds.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And there were reporters who claimed that I wanted a pardon. And let me be clear, that was always utter bs. Not only did I not want a pardon, not only did I not ask for a pardon, but if Trump had asked me, hey, should I pardon you? I would say, hell no, I haven't committed any crimes. I don't want to pardon. People who want pardons are people who have likely committed crimes. And no, absolutely not. But it was all made up. It was an entirely fanciful fantasy. But, and look, I don't know, there may have been some individual House members who asked for it. I don't know about that. But I can tell you the press was breathlessly reporting all these Republicans that were seeking pardons. And the irony is, what is happening right now, you said at the outset of this pod, and this is important, this is orchestrated, this is concerted, this is not spontaneous. There has been a decision made by Democrats and by the corporate media. We are going to, try to, number one, pressure Joe Biden to give pardons to everybody. But number two, we're going to try to normalize it by talking about, hey, isn't this a great idea? Let's just pardon everyone and why. And their reason is pardon everybody, because Orange man bad. That that is their only reasoning. And it is Sigmund Freud would be amazed at the level of projection. They are literally doing exactly what they claim Republicans falsely claim Republicans were doing.

[Ben Ferguson]

I will say this. What worries me the most about this, Senator, and we'll end with this, but I do want to get your reaction, is that if they do this, does it not signal to Democrats in the future when they get control of the White House? Just abuse your power, do whatever the hell you want to do, go after your political enemies, and you can expect a pardon for any crimes you commit.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, listen, that's been signaled already. As you know, I wrote an entire book entitled Justice Corrupted how the Left has Weaponized the Legal System, and it talked about how Barack Obama. That what Richard Nixon attempted to do, Barack Obama succeeded in doing. He weaponized the federal government. And then when Trump became president, these hardcore partisans burrowed in to the career positions and they waged war on Donald Trump. They tried to destroy the president. They hated the fact that the voters had elected him, and they wanted to stop him from implementing the policies the voters had elected him to implement. And now, under Joe Biden, they're open and brazen. Alejandro Mayorkas may be the single most lawless cabinet member who has ever served in our nation's history. And that is a remarkable statement. And so, of course, these radicals want Mayorkas to get a pardon because if he's committed criminal activities, they don't want him held to account. They want no accountability whatsoever. And listen, this is the same. You think about it. In four years of the Biden administration, how many people has he fired?

[Ben Ferguson]

None that I'm aware of.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I don't know of a single one. Including everyone in charge of the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. That was an absolute debacle. It was. It did enormous damage to US national security. And. And nobody was fired. Nobody lost their job. You look at the disasters, you look at the people in charge of the border. The people in charge of the border presided over the largest invasion at our southern border, our nation's history, the worst illegal immigration in our nation's history, and nobody lost their job. You literally wonder, what the hell does someone have to do in this administration to lose their job? Well, now it turns out not only do they want nobody to ever lose their job, they want Biden to issue pardons so that nobody who committed federal crimes is ever, ever, ever held accountable. This is chapter two of the Politicization and Weaponization of Law Enforcement.

[Ben Ferguson]

It really is. We're going to keep covering it. We're going to keep talking about this and make sure you share this podcast wherever you can on social media. That's why we do this show so others can hear as well. Thank you for supporting us as always. We do this show Monday, Wednesdays and Friday. Hit that subscribe or auto download button and the center and I will be back with you on Friday morning.

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