Elon Musk: 1-on-1 Exclusive at the White House-DOGE, AI, Trump, Mars & Killer Robots (Part 1)

Summary

Verdict with Ted Cruz: Elon Musk Exclusive at the White House (Part 1) Release Date: March 17, 2025

In this compelling first part of a two-part exclusive interview, Senator Ted Cruz and co-host Ben Ferguson engage in a revealing conversation with Elon Musk at the White House. The discussion delves deep into government corruption, the innovative efforts of DOGE to root out waste and fraud, and the future impacts of artificial intelligence. This summary captures the essence of their dialogue, highlighting key points, insightful analyses, and notable quotes.

---

1. Introduction to the Exclusive Interview

Timestamp: [00:59] - [03:04]

Senator Ted Cruz opens the episode by announcing the special sit-down with Elon Musk, emphasizing the significance of the conversation held at the White House. He teases the listeners with forthcoming revelations about government corruption and corruption within the federal system, setting the stage for an in-depth discussion.

Ted Cruz:
"Today is a very special day as we are doing part one of our two-part conversation at the White House with Elon Musk."
[00:59]

---

2. Government Waste and Fraud Unveiled

Timestamp: [03:04] - [07:37]

Elon Musk initiates the discussion by humorously noting the perceived inaction surrounding his endeavors, juxtaposing it with the chaos within the federal government.

Elon Musk:
"Well, we're in the White House right now and we're here with my friend Elon Musk, who really has not been doing much of anything, has not made any news is. And nobody has noticed."
[03:04]

Ben Ferguson elaborates on the extent of governmental inefficiency, comparing it unfavorably to the mess Musk encountered at Twitter. They discuss the staggering overspending on unnecessary software licenses and media subscriptions.

Ben Ferguson:
"In every government department, I say every because we've not yet found a single exception. There are far too many software licenses and media subscriptions, meaning many more software licenses and media subscriptions than there are humans in the department."
[05:22]

The conversation highlights how the federal government allocates funds without proper oversight, leading to massive financial wastage.

---

3. Case Study: Corruption in Government Funding

Timestamp: [07:01] - [08:28]

The hosts delve into specific instances of corruption, notably the controversial $1.9 billion allocated to Stacey Abrams' nonprofit organization. They criticize the lack of accountability and the misuse of funds for personal luxuries rather than altruistic purposes.

Elon Musk:
"That's just corrupt. I think that's paying off cronies at that point."
[07:20]

Ben Ferguson:
"They then give themselves extremely lavish, like insane salaries, expense everything to the nonprofit, buy jets and homes and all sorts of things."
[07:43]

Senator Cruz probes the nature of these financial irregularities, questioning whether they stem from incompetence or deliberate fraud.

Ted Cruz:
"Is it incompetent that you're finding, or is this like, the biggest money laundering scheme in the history of the world that you're finding?"
[06:16]

Ferguson estimates that about 80% of the issues are due to wasteful spending, with the remaining 20% being outright fraud.

---

4. The Concept of "Magic Money Computers"

Timestamp: [08:31] - [11:38]

One of the most intriguing segments involves the introduction of "magic money computers." These are government systems that can generate funds without tangible backing, leading to unchecked financial outflows.

Ben Ferguson:
"I call a magic computer, any computer which can just make money out of thin air. Best magic money."
[09:18]

They reveal that approximately 14 such computers exist across various departments, including Treasury, Health and Human Services (HHS), and the Department of Defense (DOD). These systems are responsible for sending trillions in payments without proper accounting or verification.

Elon Musk:
"They just send money out of nothing."
[09:46]

Ben Ferguson:
"The only way to reconcile the databases and get rid of waste and fraud is to actually look at the computers and see what's going on."
[11:26]

This revelation underscores the intricate and often opaque financial mechanisms within the government, highlighting the necessity for technological intervention to ensure transparency and accountability.

---

5. DOGE’s Role in Exposing Government Malfeasance

Timestamp: [11:38] - [14:19]

The dialogue shifts to the operations of DOGE (presumably a watchdog organization led by Ferguson), which aims to eliminate waste and fraud within the government. Ferguson expresses confidence in DOGE’s ability to recover a trillion dollars in waste and fraud by Fiscal Year 2026.

Ben Ferguson:
"I'm reasonably confident that we'll be able to get a trillion dollars of waste and fraud out, and that meaning that it will have. We'll have a net savings in FY26."
[13:52]

Elon Musk:
"You do it in the daylight? Everyone knows exactly what you're doing."
[14:18]

Ferguson emphasizes DOGE’s extreme transparency, detailing that every action taken is publicly documented on their website and social media platforms. This approach is intended to maintain public trust and ensure accountability in their mission.

---

6. Opposition and Threats Faced by DOGE

Timestamp: [14:43] - [20:49]

The conversation takes a turn as they discuss the backlash and threats facing DOGE and Ferguson. The hosts attribute the hostility primarily to left-wing organizations that are adversely affected by DOGE’s anti-fraud initiatives.

Elon Musk:
"How about ActBlue or what?"
[24:44]

Ben Ferguson:
"ActBlue is one of them. You know, Arabella, you know, the classic. It's funded by the, you know, the blue basically the left-wing NGO cabal."
[20:49]

They speculate that radical left-wing groups, possibly funded by entities like ActBlue, are orchestrating attacks against DOGE, including vandalism of Tesla’s charging stations and online harassment.

Elon Musk:
"If it can actually be shown that they are funding firebombing of Tesla charging stations. That's objectively a criminal act."
[25:35]

Ferguson shares personal experiences of receiving death threats and highlights the organized nature of these attacks, attributing them to domestic left-wing organizations intent on undermining DOGE’s efforts.

---

7. The Future of Artificial Intelligence and Its Impact

Timestamp: [25:38] - [28:45]

Shifting gears, the discussion explores the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence and robotics, forecasting profound changes in society over the next decade.

Ben Ferguson:
"In 10 years, probably AI could do anything better than a human can. Cognitively, probably almost. I think in 10 years, based on the cart rate of improvement, AI will be smarter than the smartest human."
[25:47]

They predict the proliferation of humanoid robots and widespread adoption of autonomous vehicles, estimating that by five years, 50% of miles driven will be autonomous, and by ten years, up to 90%.

Ben Ferguson:
"A lot of people are understandably freaked out about that."
[27:19]

Despite the potential for job displacement, Ferguson remains optimistic, suggesting that goods and services will become nearly free, thereby elevating living standards. However, he acknowledges the societal challenge of finding fulfillment and meaning in an AI-dominated economy.

---

8. AI and National Security Concerns

Timestamp: [28:09] - [30:11]

The conversation delves into the strategic race for AI dominance between the United States and China. Ferguson underscores the critical role of AI chip fabrication, predominantly located in Taiwan, and the vulnerabilities associated with geopolitical tensions.

Elon Musk:
"And what if China invades Taiwan? What happens to the world?"
[29:43]

Ben Ferguson:
"If they were to invade in the near term, the world would be cut off from advanced AI chips."
[29:50]

They discuss the pressing need for the U.S. to bolster its AI infrastructure to maintain national security and technological superiority. Ferguson emphasizes that without swift action to develop domestic AI chip production, the U.S. risks falling behind China in the global AI race.

---

9. Closing Remarks and Final Questions

Timestamp: [30:11] - [36:05]

The episode concludes with lighter topics, including personal anecdotes and final thoughts on legacy and space exploration. Ben Ferguson reflects on his aspirations to contribute to human colonization of Mars through SpaceX, while Elon Musk engages in a playful debate about the merits of Star Wars versus Star Trek.

Ben Ferguson:
"If SpaceX got humans to Mars, that's what they would remember me for."
[31:15]

The hosts and Musk also touch upon the personal impacts of their public personas, with Musk acknowledging the transformation from a beloved innovator to a controversial figure facing significant opposition.

Ben Ferguson:
"Thank you. It's essential for the future of civilization, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it."
[36:05]

Ted Cruz wraps up the episode by teasing the second part of the interview, promising even more groundbreaking revelations about government corruption.

Ted Cruz:
"And now part two of this interview with Elon Musk and some bigger breaking news that we're going to have for you about corruption the government will hit on Wednesday morning."
[36:08]

---

Key Takeaways

• Government Inefficiency and Fraud: The federal government is plagued by excessive and unnecessary expenditures, particularly in software licenses and media subscriptions, leading to massive financial wastage and potential fraud.

• DOGE’s Mission: Ben Ferguson and DOGE are actively combating government waste and fraud through technological interventions, aiming to recover trillions in misallocated funds with unprecedented transparency.

• Opposition from Left-Wing Entities: DOGE faces significant backlash from left-wing organizations and donors who are adversely affected by their anti-fraud initiatives, resulting in harassment and threats.

• AI’s Rapid Advancement: Artificial intelligence is projected to surpass human cognitive abilities within the next decade, revolutionizing industries but also posing societal challenges related to employment and fulfillment.

• National Security and AI Dominance: The U.S. must urgently develop its domestic AI infrastructure to maintain technological and national security supremacy over China, especially concerning AI chip fabrication.

• Personal Reflections and Future Visions: The hosts and Musk share personal insights and aspirations, emphasizing the importance of legacy and the potential of human colonization of Mars.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Ferguson on Government Waste:
  "In every government department, I say every because we've not yet found a single exception."
  [05:22]

• Elon Musk on Corruption:
  "That's just corrupt. I think that's paying off cronies at that point."
  [07:20]

• Ben Ferguson on AI:
  "In 10 years, probably AI could do anything better than a human can."
  [25:47]

• Elon Musk on National Security:
  "If China invades Taiwan? What happens to the world?"
  [29:43]

• Ben Ferguson on DOGE’s Transparency:
  "Extreme transparency. I don't think anything's been this transparent ever."
  [14:38]

---

This episode of "Verdict with Ted Cruz" offers a critical examination of governmental inefficiencies and the transformative potential of artificial intelligence. Through incisive dialogue and compelling evidence, Cruz, Ferguson, and Musk shed light on pressing issues facing the nation and the innovative steps being taken to address them.

Transcript

[Ryan]

It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like are you a fist pumper?

[Clay]

A woohooer?

[Elon Musk]

A hand clapper?

[Ryan]

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[Elon Musk]

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[Buck Sexton]

Hey Clay, if there was a summer camp for critical thinking, we'd be the chief counselors.

[Ryan]

Those jelly heads in June would be intellectual warriors by August.

[Buck Sexton]

Be a lot of fun too. Some Bill and Ted's excellent adventure references.

[Ryan]

Thrown in this podcast like a daily dose of that minus the campfires, archery and pranking, the girls.

[Buck Sexton]

The Bonafide boot camp for critical thinking. You can get in on it for free at the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Just search our names Clay and Balk. Listen and subscribe.

[Ted Cruz]

Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you and today is a very special day as we are doing part one of our two part conversation at the White House with Elon Musk. Now Elon is going to break news during today and Wednesday's show on Doge and some credible shocking information about corruption within our government. I want to make sure you hit that subscribe button, that auto download button right now so you do not miss part two two on Wednesday. Also, please help this go viral as we're exposing government waste by sharing this episode on any social media platform that you are on. But before we get to that, after more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for first responders is still critical even in times of ceasefire. Israel must be prepared for the next attack wherever it may come from as Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. That is where the international fellowship of Christians and Jews and you come in. They are the ones that help give the support that is needed and the people of Israel need now more than ever before life saving security essentials and your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles and ambulances, firefighting equipment, flak jackets and bulletproof vests and so much more. Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of Israel Israel are safe and secure in the days to come. So give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting support IFCJ.org that's one word. Support IFCJ.org or call 888-488ICJ. That's 888-488 IFCJ 888-488-4325 or support IFCJ.org so, without any further ado, here is part one of our sit down conversation at the White House with Elon Musk.

[Elon Musk]

Well, we're in the White House right now and we're here with my friend Elon Musk, who really has not been doing much of anything, has not made any news is. And nobody has noticed.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

The impact. Welcome, Elon.

[Ben Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Elon Musk]

Holy crap.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes. Wow.

[Elon Musk]

Let me just say, never a dull moment. Never a dull moment. The first 50 days the President has spent in office over the top and the first 50 days you've spent. I don't think there's ever been anyone to have an impact the way you have beginning. Let me start with a question. You know a lot about which was worse, the mess you found at Twitter or the mess you found in the federal government?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, it's hard to compete with the federal government.

[Elon Musk]

What surprised you about the federal government? I assume you came in and assumed it was bad. Is it worse than you expected?

[Ben Ferguson]

It is worse than I expected. But on the plus side, that means there's more opportunity for improvement. So if you look on the bright side, there's actually a lot of opportunity for improvement in federal government expenditures. Because it's so bad, if it was a well run ship, it would be very difficult to improve. So now it's like if people say, well, how will you figure out how to save money in the federal government? Well, it's like being in a room where the, the walls, the roof and the floor are all targets. So we shoot in any direction. Yeah. And you're going to miss. Wow. Again, I'm sure you would agree.

[Elon Musk]

So a lot of folks have talked about like, like you can't miss.

[Ben Ferguson]

You can't miss. Yeah. Just go any direction.

[Elon Musk]

A lot of the crazy expenditures, things like like 2 million bucks for sex change surgeries in Guatemala, an essential, you know, transgendered mice and Sesame street in Iraq, a lot of that has gotten attention. But some of the stuff you've told me about, like tell us about computer licenses and government agencies.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. So most of what Doge is finding, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes. Okay. It's very obvious, basic stuff. So in every government department, I say every because we've not yet found a single exception. There are far too many software licenses and media subscriptions, meaning many more software licenses and media subscriptions than there are humans in the department.

[Elon Musk]

Like you were saying, like an agency with 15,000 people might have 30,000 licenses.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

And even of the 15,000 employees, a good chunk of them hadn't used the license, had never logged on or used the application.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes. We found entire situations of software licenses or media subscriptions. There were zero logins, and yet we.

[Elon Musk]

Were paying for it.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes, the government was paying for thousands of licenses of software or media subscriptions, and no one had ever logged in even once.

[Elon Musk]

Or like credit cards, you found the same thing with government credit cards.

[Ben Ferguson]

We found that there are twice as many credit cards as there are humans. And I still don't have a good explanation for why this is the case. And these are $10,000 limit cards. So it's a lot of money.

[Ted Cruz]

Is it incompetent that you're finding, or is this like, the biggest money laundering scheme in the history of the world that you're finding?

[Ben Ferguson]

Look, I think it's mostly. If you say, look, what's the waste to fraud ratio? In my opinion, it's like 80% waste, 20% fraud. But you do have these sort of gray areas.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

Example.

[Ben Ferguson]

Example would be. So we saw a lot of payments going out of treasury that had no payment code and no explanation for the payment. And then we'd try to figure out what that payment is, and we'd see that, okay, that contract was supposed to be shut off, but someone forgot to shut off that contract. And so the company kept getting money.

[Ted Cruz]

Wow.

[Ben Ferguson]

Now, is that waste or fraud?

[Elon Musk]

Both.

[Ted Cruz]

Both?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

You know, you're getting something you're not supposed to get.

[Ben Ferguson]

You're not supposed to get it, but you. But the government sent it to you, and nobody from the government asked for it back. Take, for example, the $1.9 billion given to Stacey Abrams. Fake NGO.

[Elon Musk]

Utter insanity.

[Ted Cruz]

Explain it.

[Elon Musk]

That's just corrupt. I think that's paying off cronies at that point.

[Ben Ferguson]

1,000%.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, she knew, like, when you get $2 billion, you don't miss that. That's not an accident.

[Ben Ferguson]

Allegedly. It was for, like, you know, environmentally friendly appliances or something. And they've given, like, 100 appliances so far for $2 billion. It's a very expensive toaster.

[Ted Cruz]

One hell of an appliance.

[Elon Musk]

That's something. Zero fridge. Boy, it's nice.

[Ben Ferguson]

This is obviously one of the biggest scam portholes we've uncovered, which is really crazy. Is that the Government can give money to a so called nonprofit with very few controls and there's no auditing subsequently of that nonprofit. So there's no. So this is with the 1.9 billion to Stacey Abrams. They then give themselves extremely lavish, like insane salaries, expense everything to the nonprofit, buy jets and homes and all sorts of things.

[Elon Musk]

Live like kings and queens.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

On the taxpayer dialogue.

[Ben Ferguson]

Correct. You mentioned this is happening at scale. It's not just one or two. We're seeing this everywhere now.

[Elon Musk]

One of the things you told me about is crazy is what you call magic money, computers. So tell us about it, because I never heard of that until you brought that up.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay. So you may think that the government computers all talk to each other, they synchronize, they add up what funds are going somewhere and it's, you know, it's coherent that the, you know, there's. And that. And that the numbers, for example, that you're presented as a senator.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Ben Ferguson]

Are actually the real numbers in one would think. One would think they're not.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Ben Ferguson]

Okay. I mean, they're not totally wrong, but they're probably off by 5% or 10% in some cases. So I call a magic, magic computer, any computer which can just make money out of thin air. Best magic money.

[Elon Musk]

So how does that work?

[Ben Ferguson]

It just issues payments.

[Elon Musk]

And you said there's something like 11 of these computers at treasury that are sending out trillions in payments.

[Ben Ferguson]

They're mostly at treasury, some are with the, some at HHS, some at. There's one, I think one or two at State, there's some at DOD. I think we found now 14 magic money computers. They just send money out of nothing.

[Elon Musk]

You have an ability to see where leverage points are and how things actually happen. So I remember back, I think it was September, October of this year, before the election. We didn't know who was going to win. And I was at your house in Austin, we were talking about it and you said, you said, look, I don't want a job in Washington. And you said, all I want is the login for every computer. And I remember thinking at the time that sounded kind of weird, like I just didn't get it. And I have to say what's interesting on this, if I would have thought like, okay, how do you reform government? Like sort of the traditional way to think about it is, okay, give me an org chart, let me sit down with the people who are running agencies. And what you saw immediately is to understand what's really going on, get to the payment systems, get to the computers. Why Is getting to the computer so critical to understanding what's actually happening?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, the government is run by computers. So you've got essentially several hundred computers that effectively run the government. And if you want to know.

[Elon Musk]

Did you know that, Ben?

[Ted Cruz]

No.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. So when somebody like even when the President issues an executive order, that's got to go through a whole bunch of people until ultimately it is implemented at a computer somewhere. And if you want to know what the situation is with the accounting and you're trying to reconcile accounting and get rid of waste and fraud, you must be able to analyze the computer databases. Otherwise you can't figure it out because all you're doing is asking a human, who will then ask another human, ask another human, and finally usually ask some contractor who will ask another contractor to do a query on the computer.

[Ted Cruz]

Wow.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's how it actually works. So it's many layers deep. So the only way to reconcile the databases and get rid of waste and fraud is to actually look at the computers and see what's going on.

[Ted Cruz]

So you.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's what I call. That's like. That's what I. When I sort of cryptically refer to reprogramming the matrix. You have to understand what's going on the computers. You have to reconcile the computer databases in order to identify the waste of fraud.

[Elon Musk]

I don't know that there was anyone in Congress who understood, certainly myself included, who understood the leverage that comes from the computer and the data in particular that Congress would think about. Give me a report on what your expenditures are rather than actually getting into the pipes. And I think that has been fascinating that it's let you uncover a bunch of crap that just nobody knew.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes. I mean, in order for money to go to a bank account, it's not like we're sending truckloads of cash all over the place. We're wiring money.

[Elon Musk]

Right.

[Ben Ferguson]

We're sending money through the ACH system or through the SWIFT system. So in order for money to flow, it's going to flow electronically. So that's what you need to look at. You need to look at the actual electronic money flows.

[Elon Musk]

And Tesla and all your companies, you have accounting and you have every expenditure, you have it coded for what it's going for. Federal government doesn't work that way. They don't code with the money's going for. They do now, but they didn't.

[Ben Ferguson]

They didn't.

[Elon Musk]

And like one of the things that you told me, you said if any company kept its books the way the federal government does, they'd arrest the officers and put them in jail.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes. If it was a poly company, it would be delisted immediately, it would fail its ordered, and the officers of the company would be imprisoned. That's the level of malfeasance in the federal government, unfortunately.

[Ted Cruz]

Deliberately, or do you think this is incompetence?

[Ben Ferguson]

Again? It's 80%. It's 80% incompetence or. And 20% malice.

[Ted Cruz]

So if you look at. If you look at Doge now and you look at the government and what you're finding, what percentage have you guys even gotten to and how much of it is Mars, where you haven't even gotten there yet? Because there's so much you're finding out here. I mean, how many. You seem like a timeline guy when you say, all right, I want to get in there and get all these, you know, numbers and things. How far are we from the end game where you've seen it all, been able to process it all and fix it? I mean, are we years away? Months away?

[Ben Ferguson]

Not years. I'm reasonably confident that we'll be able to get a trillion dollars of waste and fraud out, and that meaning that it will have. We'll have a net savings in FY26, which starts in October, obviously, of a trillion dollars, provided we're allowed to continue and our progress is not impeded and we're very public about what we do.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, you put it on the website.

[Ted Cruz]

It's on the website.

[Ben Ferguson]

I don't know how we could be more transparent. Literally every action we do, small or large, we put on the doge.gov website and we post on the X handle. And when people complain about it and they say, oh, you're doing something costume, I'm like, well, which of these costumes.

[Elon Musk]

You do it in the daylight? Everyone knows exactly what you're doing.

[Ben Ferguson]

Extreme transparency. I don't think anything's been this transparent ever.

[Elon Musk]

So five years ago, you were a hero to the left. You were cool, you had electric cars, you had space. And in five years, you've go to.

[Ben Ferguson]

A party in Hollywood and not get dirty looks. In fact.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, now you might not even get invited.

[Ben Ferguson]

I should be invited, but I don't know if I should go.

[Elon Musk]

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say today after Donald Trump, the left hates you more than any person on Earth.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes, I appear to be number two. I mean, if you're judged by the various signs, they are.

[Elon Musk]

It's derangement. It's Trump Derangement Syndrome and Elon Derangement Syndrome. How Is that for you? That's a little bit of whiplash of going from being like Mr. Cool to the devil incarnate in just a couple of years? Is that kind of weird to experience that transformation?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

Why do they hate you so much?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, because we're clearly over the target. If those was ineffective, if we were not actually getting rid of a bunch of ways and fraud and a bunch of that fraud. I mean, the fraud we're seeing is overwhelmingly on the left. I mean, it's not zero on the right, but these NGOs are almost all left wing NGOs that are being funded, for example. So they hate me because Doge is being effective and DOGE is getting rid of a lot of waste. Before that they were. That people on the left were taking advantage of. That's what it comes down to. And the single biggest thing that they're worried about is that Doge is going to turn off fraudulent payments of entitlements. I mean, everything from Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, disability, Small Business Administration loans. Turn them off to illegals. This is the crux of the matter. Okay? This is the thing that why they really hit my guts and want me to die.

[Elon Musk]

And do you think that's billions, Hundreds of billions. What do you think the scale is of that?

[Ben Ferguson]

I think across the country it's well north of 100 billion, maybe 200 billion. So by using entitlements fraud, the Democrats have been able to attract and retain vast numbers of illegal immigrants.

[Elon Musk]

And buy voters.

[Ben Ferguson]

And buy voters, exactly. Basically bring in 10, 20 million people who are beholden to the Democrats for government handouts and will vote overwhelmingly Democrat, as has been demonstrated in California. This is overwhelmingly.

[Ted Cruz]

It's an election strategy.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

It's power.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes. And it doesn't take much to turn the swing states blue. I mean, often a swing state might be won by 10, 20,000 votes.

[Elon Musk]

Sure.

[Ben Ferguson]

So if the Dems can bring in 200,000 illegals and over time get them legalized, not counting any cheating that takes place. Because there is some cheating. But even without cheating, if you bring in illegals that are 10x the voter differential in a swing state, it will no longer be a swing state.

[Elon Musk]

Right.

[Ben Ferguson]

And the Dems will win all the swing states. Just a matter of time and America will be permanent deep blue socialist state. The House, the Senate.

[Elon Musk]

Yep.

[Ben Ferguson]

The Presidency and the Supreme Court will all go hardcore down. They will then further cement that by bringing in even more aliens so you can't vote your way out of it. Their objective is to make it one party socialist State. And it'll be much worse than California because at least California is mitigated by the fact that someone can leave California.

[Elon Musk]

Right? You can go to Texas.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, exactly. It's going to make everywhere California a bit worse.

[Elon Musk]

By the way, the middle of the pandemic, I spent 45 minutes on the phone with Elon. He was still in California. I was walking my dog, Snowflake, and trying to convince you, come to Texas. The commies in California can't stand you. We love you, we want you here. And you didn't quite go then, but you went not that long afterwards.

[Ben Ferguson]

I mean, the COVID actions almost killed Tesla because every other auto plant in the country was allowed to open, but ours, which was in California, was not allowed to open.

[Ted Cruz]

Wow.

[Elon Musk]

Wow.

[Ben Ferguson]

So they almost killed Tesla.

[Elon Musk]

So as a personal matter, do you ever regret it? Like five years ago you go to the Oscars and we're Mr. Cool, and now you've got death threats every day.

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, these days the Oscars are boring. I wouldn't want to go.

[Elon Musk]

God bless the movies they nominate no one on earth has ever seen. Like, like, could they actually nominate a movie that human beings go watch?

[Ben Ferguson]

I mean, the. How many great movies have come out in the last several years? Very few.

[Elon Musk]

Depressingly few.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. Very few last Oscars came and went. I didn't watch it. There's nothing to see.

[Elon Musk]

I. I was sad that Gene Hackman just passed away because Unforgiven was spectacular. But that was a long time ago.

[Ted Cruz]

You've mentioned today, here and before, about the possibility of someone wanting to take you out, dealing with the death threats we see.

[Ben Ferguson]

It's not in my imagination. You could just look on social media.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, but like, is it because.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, and look, I'm very familiar with that.

[Ben Ferguson]

And they've got signs. They're people with signs and demonstrations saying that I need to die.

[Elon Musk]

Do you think, are these just whack jobs or do you think there are hopefully foreign, not sane people? Do you think there are foreign entities behind this? Do you think there are domestic entities behind the threats and also the attacks to Twitter? Not Twitter, Tesla. I mean, you know, you're getting Tesla's charging stations lit on fire. Do you think that's organized and paid for?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes, at least some of it is organized and paid for, I think by domestic left wing organizations in America funded by left wing billionaires, essentially.

[Elon Musk]

Is it like ActBlue or what?

[Ben Ferguson]

ActBlue is one of them. You know, Arabella, you know, the classic. It's funded by the, you know, the blue basically the left wing NGO cabal.

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[Elon Musk]

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[Clay]

Almost a year and a half of nothing but war and terror and pain in Israel fighting for their survival against radical Islamists. And all of Israel is brokenhearted after learning of the tragic death of the Viva children who were held hostage in Gaza. We all saw the images. It was horrible. So many are still hurting in the Holy Land where the need for aid continues to grow. Thankfully, the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews is supporting the families of hostages, other victims of the October 7 attacks and the war that ensued. And with your help, the IFCJ has been able to provide financial emotional help to hostages, their families and to those that are healing and rebuilding their homes and broken bodies. But the real work, sadly, is just beginning. Whatever you can give, please go to their website. It's one word. It's supportifcj.org support ifcj.org or call toll free 888-488- IFCJ 888-488-IFCJ.

[Ryan]

Today, the best way to understand all sides of an issue is to know all sides of an issue.

[Buck Sexton]

Can't get that in the mainstream media. Which is why you've got to listen to some Clay and Buck for another point of view.

[Ryan]

Buck, why are you going third person?

[Buck Sexton]

Because, Clay, I think this ad is running in places that might not exist exactly align with all of our politics or even know who we are.

[Ryan]

It's impossible. But maybe if it's true. I bet if they did listen, they'd end up agreeing with us on at least one issue. Even if they secretly want admitted.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, the only way they're gonna find out is if they download the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever they get their pods.

[Ryan]

We're easy to find. Unlike your wife at Costco, Clay, you speak the truth.

[Buck Sexton]

But we're already losing people.

[Ryan]

I think I gained one or two just now.

[Buck Sexton]

In case you haven't noticed. We like to have a lot of fun as well as talk about what's going on in the world.

[Ryan]

Come hang with us today and every day at Clay and buck. Download the iHeartRadio app, search out those names, Clay, Travis, Buck Sexton, and come hang.

[Ted Cruz]

How big of a threat is this to like what you build at Tesla? I mean, I remember when Teslas came out, it was people that they didn't want to have gas cars. A lot of it was environmental reasons. I jokingly said, I was like, I'm a Texas guy. I'm always going to have something that burns gas. My kids, now, all three of my boys think that the, that Teslas are awesome. The cyber truck is the car they want their dad to buy. Which I laugh because I never could have imagined that five years ago. And now I'm looking at, well, we're.

[Elon Musk]

At the White House and the President's Tesla sparked right outside the West Wing, which is the coolest damn thing.

[Ted Cruz]

But I mean, you've changed the generation. When you look at, my kids are six and they're going, dad, buy a cybertruck. And I'm considering it. That's a full circle in a weird way.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, I do have this theory that the most entertaining outcome is the most likely. So, yeah, it seems often to be true. You see what twist or turn of fate would generate the highest ratings if we were a TV show? What twist or turn of fate would generate the highest ratings? There's a good chance that happens.

[Elon Musk]

Well, I will say if ActBlue and Arabella network.

[Ben Ferguson]

ActBlue is a huge scam. Next level.

[Elon Musk]

Do you think it's foreign money, Chinese money? Where do you think the money in ActBlue is coming from? How do you figure that out?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, it's not coming from a whole bunch of, from a groundswell of public support. Because when individual donors are looked at in ActBlue, a bunch of them turn out to be like die hard Republicans. People have never given money in their life. So you go and track down a bunch of these people where it says, oh, I gave $16,000. And they're like, I didn't give $16,000. We're talking about. This is. Well, if, if those conference of mine found themselves on the ACT Blue list, they're like, so that's.

[Elon Musk]

If it can actually be shown that they are funding firebombing of Tesla charging stations. That's objectively a criminal act. That is funding terrorist activity. And the statutes make clear that an incendiary device qualify.

[Ben Ferguson]

So That's a terrorist activity.

[Elon Musk]

Let me ask AI in 10 years, how is life going to be different because of AI for just a normal person?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, 10 years is a long time. In 10 years, probably AI could do anything better than a human can. Cognitively, probably almost. I think in 10 years, based on the cart rate of improvement, AI will be smarter than the smartest human. There will also be a massive number of robots, so humanoid robots.

[Elon Musk]

By the way, I gotta ask, how come your robots look so much like the creepy robots for my robot? Was that intentional or just.

[Ted Cruz]

I was hoping he was gonna say yeah, just to mess with you.

[Ben Ferguson]

It's not meant to look like any prior robot. And we'll iterate the design and you'll be able to have a lot of the robot parts are cosmetic. You'll be able to switch out the kind of snap on cosmetic parts of the robot, make it look like something else if you'd like. So there'll be ultimately billions of humanoid robots. All cars will be self driving in 10 years. In 10 years, probably 90% of miles driven will be autonomous.

[Elon Musk]

Huh, wow, that fast?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. In five years, probably 50% of all miles driven will be autonomous.

[Elon Musk]

Now, if AI will be smarter than any person, how many jobs go away because of that? And what do people do if you've got millions of people that are losing their jobs like that? A lot of people are understandably freaked out about that.

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, goods and services will become close to free. So it's not as though people will be wanting in terms of goods and services.

[Elon Musk]

So why is that? Why are goods and services free in an AI world or close to free?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, you have, I don't know, call it tens of billions of robots. They will make you anything or provide any service you want for basically next to nothing. It's not that people will have a lower standard of living, they'll have actually a much higher standard of living. The challenge will be fulfillment. How do you derive fulfillment and meaning in life?

[Elon Musk]

Is Skynet real? Like you get the apocalyptic visions of AI? How real is the prospect of killer robots annihilating humanity?

[Ben Ferguson]

20% likely, maybe 10%.

[Elon Musk]

On what time frame?

[Ben Ferguson]

5 to 10 years.

[Elon Musk]

So soon, like you see a world where that's possible?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, but you could look at it like the glasses, 80 to 90% full, meaning like 80% likely. We'll have extreme prosperity for all.

[Elon Musk]

Now I guess my view we're in a race to win AI. We're in a race with China. And my view is if they're going to be killer Robots. I'd rather they be American killer robots than Chinese. How likely are we winning right now? Is America winning right now? And how likely is America to win the race for AI vis a vis China or anyone else for the next few years?

[Ben Ferguson]

I think America is likely to win. Then it will be a function of who controls the AI chip fabrication, the factories that make the AI chips. Who controls them if they are controlled. If more of them are controlled by China, then China will win more.

[Elon Musk]

The factories that are making the AI chips, you think that will determine it?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

And how are we doing versus China on that front?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, right now, almost all the advanced AI chip factories, they call them fabs, are in Taiwan.

[Elon Musk]

And what if China invades Taiwan?

[Ben Ferguson]

69 miles away from.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. What happens if China invades Taiwan? What happens to the world?

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, if they were to invade in the near term, the world would be cut off from advanced AI chips. Currently, 100% of advanced AI chips are made in Taiwan.

[Ted Cruz]

How fast could we put that online in America? And how important is that for national security?

[Ben Ferguson]

I think it's essential for national security. And we're not doing enough.

[Elon Musk]

You're 53 years old. I'm 118 days older than you. By what the hell have I done in my life?

[Ted Cruz]

I know, right?

[Elon Musk]

53 years old.

[Ben Ferguson]

Pretty well. Well, so 71 was a great year.

[Elon Musk]

And I was December 70s. I was just. Just right before you were the summer of 71.

[Ben Ferguson]

I was born 69 days after 420.

[Elon Musk]

Wow. I did ask Ben.

[Ben Ferguson]

This is true.

[Elon Musk]

Look, it is true, all right?

[Ted Cruz]

You just open up your can of words.

[Elon Musk]

I did ask Ben. Should I show up and pull up a joint and say, can we beat Rogan's views? But I was pretty sure it might cause a scandal if we split a pothouse.

[Ben Ferguson]

It just turned out to be like a chocolate cigar.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Let me ask you if today was your last day on Earth.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. What?

[Elon Musk]

I'm not suggesting it's going to be, but if it were, what do you think your biggest legacy would be of everything you've done 100 years from now? What do you think people would remember if it were zero to today?

[Ted Cruz]

And will you ever go to space.

[Ben Ferguson]

In the distant future, 100 or 1,000 years ago? If SpaceX got humans to Mars, that's what they would remember me for.

[Elon Musk]

All right, final set of questions. Who's the smartest guy you've ever met? You hang out with some brilliant people. What's a CEO you look at other than yourself? What CEO do you say? Damn, that Guy's good.

[Ben Ferguson]

Larry Ellison's very smart, so I'll say Larry Ellison's one of the smartest people. Larry Page. I mean, there are a lot of people that are very smart. It's hard to say. I think to some degree smart is as smart as. So what have they done that is difficult and significant? You know, Jeff Bezos has done a lot of difficult and significant things. I mean, there are a lot of smart humans. I call them smart for a human. A lot of people who are in the smart for a human category.

[Elon Musk]

All right, final lightning round. Star wars or Star Trek.

[Ben Ferguson]

The first movie I saw in a theater was Star wars. So I think it had a profound effect on me. I'm six years old, I think. Imagine if first movie you ever see in a theater is Star Wars. That's gonna blow your mind.

[Elon Musk]

Best Star wars movie.

[Ben Ferguson]

Empire Strikes Back.

[Elon Musk]

The only objectively right answer. I stood in line three hours with my dad to see it on opening day. Kirk or Picard? I like the both, but Kirk, again, objectively right answer. By the way, Kirk. James T. Kirk is a Republican and Picard is a Democrat. And the left gets very mad when I say that. Best Star Trek movie.

[Ben Ferguson]

I mean, the original, the first Star Trek movie.

[Elon Musk]

Maybe that's in Wrath of Wrath of Khan.

[Ben Ferguson]

Wrath of Wrath of Khan. Both Wrath of Khans were pretty good, but yeah, the original Wrath of Khan.

[Elon Musk]

Ricardo Montalban. Revenge is a dish best served cold. It is very cold in space. Although I will say Wrath of Khan is objectively the right answer. But. But 4 is a sleeper. When they go back to San Francisco and go find the whales and, you know, Scotty picks up. Picks up the mouth and talks to it. Then goes a keyboard. How quaint. That's a sleeper. All right, last question. Did Han shoot first?

[Ben Ferguson]

It seemed like he shot second.

[Elon Musk]

This is verdict. And by the way, I apologize, Ben. So Ben was a jock and played tennis at Ole Miss. And so occasionally when we geek a.

[Ted Cruz]

Little bit, I love watching y'all geek out over there.

[Ben Ferguson]

He might have shot first, though, because the guy, he's still on the question. I love he missed his. The alien missed his blaster shot. So why did he miss his blaster shot? Must have been because he got shot first. Now he's missing a point blank blasto shot. Unless they got knocked off kill.

[Elon Musk]

But it's a question of real quick, which is. Is Han Solo simply a hero or an anti hero? And so I'm in the Han shot first category. I don't like sanitized Stories he would.

[Ben Ferguson]

Have had to have shot first because otherwise why would the alien miss a point blank range?

[Ted Cruz]

Are you ever going to go to outer space? Is that something in your life goals?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, I'd like to go to Mars at some point. And people have said, do I want to die on Mars? And I say yes, just not on impact.

[Elon Musk]

Now that's a very good answer. The astronauts on the space station, are they political prisoners?

[Ben Ferguson]

Some of them are.

[Elon Musk]

Because. Because you could have given them a ride back and Joe Biden said no purely for politics.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, you know, there's been some debate about this online, but the thing is that it was a very high level decision. So it wasn't really even a NASA decision. It was just that the Biden White House did not want to have someone who was pro Trump rescuing astronauts right before the election. So they pushed it.

[Elon Musk]

Well, if you're one of those astronauts, you gotta be pretty pissed off about that.

[Ben Ferguson]

Well, if they're a Democrat, yes. Republican, yes. But if they're Democrat, like, everything's fine.

[Elon Musk]

Fair enough.

[Ben Ferguson]

So I think one of them is a Republican, one is a Democrat. So it depends on which one you ask.

[Elon Musk]

Well, thank you, Elon. This was awesome. And let me say, and by the way, I put out on X the day before yesterday, if you were having a beer with Elon and could ask him anything, what would you ask? And got lots of responses. The most common response people said is say thank you. Look, Texans and the American people appreciate what you're doing. You don't have to put up with this BS and you're doing it. I'm grateful. You're making a hell of a difference for this country. I appreciate you and the Americans appreciate you.

[Ben Ferguson]

Thank you. It's essential for the future of civilization, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Ben Ferguson]

It's not like I want to get death threats, you know.

[Ted Cruz]

No.

[Ben Ferguson]

All right.

[Ted Cruz]

Now part two of this interview with Elon Musk and some bigger breaking news that we're going to have for you about corruption the government will hit on Wednesday morning. So make sure you hit that subscribe or auto download button right now. And again, please help this show go viral so that we can continue to expose government waste wherever you're on social media. Hit that little forward button and post this episode on social media and the center and I will see you back here with ELON MUSK Part 2 Wednesday morning.

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[Buck Sexton]

Hey, Clay, if there was a summer camp for critical thinking, we'd be the chief counselors.

[Ryan]

Those jelly heads in June would be intellectual warriors by August.

[Buck Sexton]

Be a lot of fun, too. Some Bill and Ted's excellent adventure references thrown in this podcast.

[Ryan]

Like a daily dose of that, minus the campfires, archery, and pranking the girls.

[Buck Sexton]

The Bonafide boot camp for critical thinking. You can get in on it for free at the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Just search our names. Clay and Buck Listen and subscribe.