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Verdict with Ted Cruz
Regime Change Isn’t a Dirty Word, a Meeting with Machado & the Soldiers Who Changed a Hemisphere Week In Review
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- [00:00]
Ben Ferguson
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human. Welcome to this Verdict with Ted Cruz, Week in Review. Ben Ferguson with you. And here are the big stories that we talked about this week that you may have missed. First up, regime change. There's a real possibility of it in multiple countries around the world. So what role should America play? We explain that in a moment. Also, Senator Cruz had an incredible meeting with the opposition leader of Venezuela, Machado, in she talked about what the future looks like for that country. And Senator Cruz brings you into the room. And finally, an incredible day in San Antonio as Senator Cruz met with the heroes of the Maduro arrest mission. What do they have to say and how are they doing? It's the week in review and it starts right now.
- [00:47]
Ted Cruz
And so you're either a neocon warmonger or you're an isolationist like Tucker and his followers. And I actually think most Americans don't fall into either category. Most Americans, I think, agree with President Donald Trump and agreed with President Ronald Reagan. Neither one of them were, to use the insult of the day, neocon warmongers. You know, in eight years, the biggest country Reagan ever invaded, Grenada. Yeah, he was not interested in invading foreign countries and sending our soldiers to die abroad, but he understood peace through strength. He rebuilt our military. He developed sdi, Strategic Defense Initiative, what was called Star wars laser missile defense from space. And he bankrupted the Soviet Union and won the Cold War without firing a shot. Donald Trump likewise has had incredible foreign policy victories, but he's not sending our soldiers to be boots on the ground and to die for years on end. And, and I want to take a related term that on social media gets thrown around as an epithet, which is regime change. And you'll have people, I'm not for regime change. Well, let me be clear. Should you be for regime change when the Soviet Union fell and the Berlin Wall fell to the ground? I will submit the answer as unambiguously, yes, the world is better off when a cruel, tyrannical communist regime falls. Should you be for regime change today in communist China? I think unambiguously, yes, the world would be better off if China were no longer a communist country. Should you be for regime change in Iran? I would suggest unambiguously, yes, the world would be a better place if Iran was not governed by a theocratic, murderous, religious zealot who has killed hundreds, if not thousands of Americans. Now, what is the consequence of saying you're for regime change if it is that you're going to send hundreds of thousands of American troops to Invade the country and be on the ground for years on end and die in IEDs and be killed, then I don't support that. That is wrong. And part of the reason regime change has become an insult is people hear it and they immediately think the Iraq War. Remember, I've opposed the Iraq War for decades. By the way, when Tucker Carlson was an interventionist cheerleader with pom poms cheering on the Iraq War, which he did for years with his bow tie, I've said for years, the Iraq War was clearly a mistake. Why? Because it did not advance US national security interest. Saddam Hussein was a cruel and oppressive dictator. He was killing terrorists who hated America. We came in, we toppled Saddam Hussein, and the terrorists who hated America took over and began killing Americans. By the way, we did the same thing in Libya with Gaddafi. Gaddafi was cruel and oppressive, but he was killing terrorists who hate Americans. We toppled Gaddafi and the terrorists who hate Americans took over. I believe we should be America first, which means we should put America's national security interests first. But just because you don't want to commit boots on the ground and have hundreds or thousands of Americans die in protracted ground combat does not mean that you should support every tyrannical enemy of America. We should want regime change in Iran. And are there ways to promote regime change other than boots on the ground? And yes, and I would say one of them is what Donald J. Trump said. I wanna read his tweet again. Iran is looking at freedom, perhaps like never before. The USA stands ready to help President Donald J. Trump. I agree with President Trump and Tucker and everyone else who is blasting that we should have nothing to do with Iran. They're disagreeing with the president and they are wrong. We should use our voice. That's why this podcast is a message to the people of Iran. Freedom matters. You're the ones in charge of fighting for your revolution. But know that America stands with you and a free and peaceful Iran is better for Iran and it's better for America.
- [05:04]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, it really is. It's an important show. I hope the people in Iran, especially using Starlink, get this podcast. They're able to listen to it. That we're standing with you, we're supporting you, we're advocating for you, and we want you guys to succeed in what you're doing right now. It's going to be very interesting to see because so things are changing so quickly. There was a video that was put out and it. It was also just one of those moments when you're. I love the Internet and it shows A Russian jet and a Russian support plane from their military on the tarmac, on the military side at the Tehran airport. It's interesting because people are speculating that plane is sitting there ready to take out the leaders if they need to.
- [05:39]
Ted Cruz
Ben, I gotta say, what was there in the windshield? The little Uber logo? I'm just curious.
- [05:44]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, it said. It said Russian Lyft. It was Russia. Yeah.
- [05:48]
Ted Cruz
Russian lifted. Did they at least bring some, like, you know, Domino's Pizza or something? Yeah, yeah.
- [05:53]
Ben Ferguson
It's the same plane I think, that they got when they grabbed Assad. Right. You know, it's like, oh, come on down. We'll let you be an eye doctor. It's fine.
- [05:59]
Ted Cruz
You're one of our bad guys. It's. It's the dictator extraction plane.
- [06:03]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, exactly. It's. It's those two. And who knows, maybe Tucker will be on it one day. He can go hang out there. He's already bought a house in Qatar, so you never know. But it. But you. You see it, and it's just one of those moments where I love that the Internet, it's like that's how close we are to seeing genuine freedom back there that they haven't seen since 1979. That is amazing and inspiring. I hope for the best, and I hope that very few lives or any lives are lost in this.
- [06:28]
Ted Cruz
Let me say something also, Ben. You're right. Let me also acknowledge I'm not Pollyannish about what comes next. So if there is a revolution in Iran, if the Ayatollah is toppled, it doesn't mean that tomorrow it's suddenly utopia and peace and harmony. There could be real conflict. There could be warring sides. Anytime you have a revolution, there is uncertainty, and the outcome can be good or bad. I don't have a stake. I don't have a preferred favorite for who the next leader of Iran is. I don't think that's my place. I'm not a voter in Iran, unlike Tucker, I'm not buying a home in the Middle East.
- [07:14]
Ben Ferguson
To be clear, you're not buying real estate there. Okay. I thought you guys were going to be neighbors, but.
- [07:19]
Ted Cruz
Okay, look, if the people of Iran toppled the ayatollah and the mullahs, my hope is that we see free and democratic elections and they elect a leader who's a good leader, who treats his people well, and who wants to be friends with America instead of enemies. By the way, that's the exact same outcome I want in Venezuela. I want them not to have a communist dictator. Now, Donald Trump has Taken care of that by arrested him and arresting him and prosecuting him. But I want to see free and fair elections in Venezuela where they elect someone, I hope, who embraces freedom and free enterprise and wants to be friends with America. The lens I look through all of this is, how does it impact America? It's America first. But. But I'm not diminishing. Could there be bad outcomes? Could there. Could there be a civil war? Yes, that's a possibility. When you have revolution country like we.
- [08:05]
Ben Ferguson
Saw in Iraq as well. I mean, you see this where there's different. There's many different religious thoughts and backgrounds and different towns that believe different things.
- [08:13]
Ted Cruz
And let me draw a distinction on this also, which is there's a real difference between Saddam Hussein and Iran in that Saddam Hussein was a cruel dictator, but he wasn't actively waging war on America. The Ayatollah is actively waging war on America. He's spending money today funding terrorists that are trying to kill Americans. And there's a real difference. There are regimes across this country, across the world rather, that are cruel and oppressive, but they're not trying to kill us. The Ayatollah is. And so, look, obviously if the regime falls, you could end up with a bad outcome. But, but, but in my view, there are very few outcomes that could be worse than the Ayatollah at this point. They are unmitigatedly our enemies. And I am hopeful. I think we should be a voice of encouragement towards better leadership. But I want to. I want to close with this story. So about a decade ago, I was in Jerusalem, and I had the opportunity to meet Natan Sharansky. Now, Natan Sharansky is the famed Soviet dissident. He was in the Soviet Gulag. And he told me the story about how when they were in the gulag and Reagan was president, that the prisoners would pass from cell to cell notes. And they would be notes saying, did you hear what Reagan said? Reagan called the Soviet Union an evil empire. They passed notes, evil empire. Evil empire. Evil empire. Reagan was asked, what is your strategy on the Cold War? He said, very simple. We win, they lose. Yeah, before that, everyone said, oh, we're gonna have detente. We're just gonna do nothing. No, he's like, we win, they lose. That's the strategy. When he talked about Marxism Leninism, he said, Marxism Leninism will end up on the ash heap of history. And then the most significant words any leader has uttered in modern times, he stood in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Germany and said, Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall.
- [10:14]
Ben Ferguson
Which, by the way, I love that part of the story. And if you haven't looked at it, please go and look at it. He was told by his staff speechwriters to not say it.
- [10:23]
Compassion International Announcer
And he wrote it back in after.
- [10:26]
Ben Ferguson
The State Department had taken it out.
- [10:28]
Ted Cruz
Three times. The State Department deleted that. Three times. Reagan wrote it back in. And by the way, the State Department argued at the time of his speech, he said, you cannot say this. It is too aggressive. It's too bellicose. And. And here was their killer argument. It's too unrealistic. It will never, ever, ever happen. And Reagan laughed and said, this is the whole point of the speech. And it was less than three years from giving that speech that the Berlin Wall was torn to the ground. And by the way, Berlin Wall did not come down because Reagan ordered in the Marines. We sent in tanks to knock down the wall. It was the power of the bully pulpit, of the voice for freedom of the president. And one of the things, Ben, you've seen that is in my office, it's actually in one of the offices of my staff. I love it is my first couple of years that I was in the Senate, someone came to the office and gave me something, and it's a silk painting of myself, which I don't generally hang paintings of myself on the wall. But the reason that I kept this one is the story behind it. This was apparently made by a dissident, a prisoner in North Korea. And I've been, from the very first days I arrived in the Senate, I've been speaking out against tyrants and communist oppression, whether in China or North Korea or Venezuela or Cuba or Iran. And much like Natan Sharansky, apparently the words that I had said here in the United States had somehow made their way into a dark prison cell in North Korea. And I don't know the name of this North Korean who made this. I don't know his story. I just know that it was smuggled out and they delivered it to my office. And I periodically look at that and say, okay, like there's a responsibility. This podcast, there may be someone who is risking their life or even, God forbid, loses their life because they hear our words, are inspired to fight against tyranny. And so I think we have a responsibility to speak truth, to speak for justice. And that's what I hope this podcast is doing every week, but especially today.
- [12:39]
Ben Ferguson
Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, you can go back and listen to the full podcast from earlier this week.
- [12:46]
Compassion International Announcer
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- [14:01]
Ben Ferguson
You mentioned, by the way, that the meeting you had with her after she met with the President of the United States of America, Donald Trump, was with 12 different senators. So how does that room get made? And it sounds like it was bipartisan. You mentioned a Democrat that was in that room. Does everybody get an invite or. Only certain people? How does that work?
- [14:18]
Ted Cruz
So now it was a smaller subset. And typically, what happens when you have heads of state come to Washington, they will often reach out to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and I sit on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And so often we will have regularly we'll have like afternoon coffees or lunches with heads of state when they come to town. And in the Capitol, there's an office where the Senate Foreign Relations Committee meets. There's a hearing room with this big ornate table that they'll set up. And they usually put, you have some coffee and some, some pieces of cheese and crackers and like a little bit of stuff. Yeah, you know, it's. But, but it, look, it is, it's an opportunity to visit with, with world leaders. In this instance, it wasn't the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. It ended up being. We met in the office of Dick Durbin, who was the number two Democrat. He was the one hosting it. And initially I think Durbin was making the invites. And then this is actually something Marina Karina Machado did that I think was very wise. Also, she invited a number of people. So the reason I was there is because she invited me. And look, I.
- [15:29]
Ben Ferguson
You're saying Durbin, you didn't make the cut on Durbin's group chat. You're not in that group chat with him.
- [15:35]
Ted Cruz
So, look, I suspect that there were some Democrats that wanted to have. At a meeting of just Democrats and her.
- [15:42]
Compassion International Announcer
Yeah.
- [15:43]
Ted Cruz
And I think that would have been really unfortunate if that had happened, because I think the Democrats would have wanted to use it to attack Trump. And I think she realized that that would be. That would not further the people of Venezuela. That would not be good for anyone. And so she reached out, and we had four Republicans who were there. So I was there. Rick Scott from Florida was there. Bernie Moreno from Ohio was there, and then John Curtis from Utah was there. And so that was the four Republicans who were in the room. And then there were about seven, eight, nine Democrats that were there. So it was a larger group of Democrats, and they were all posing for the cameras. And look, I think Rick Scott had obvious reason to be there. There's a big, big Venezuelan population in Florida. Rick Scott has a lot of support from the Venezuelan population in Florida, so it made sense for him to be there. Bernie, his family's from Columbia. And so, you know, he, you know, Bernie and I are the two Hispanic Republicans that are in the Senate. Yeah. And since he's Colombian American, I'm Cuban American, we kind of talk smack at each other quite a bit. And Colombians and Cubans usually throw down a little bit. And, you know, when it. As for me, look, there's a significant Venezuelan population in Texas in particular, because Venezuela has the largest proven reserves of oil in the world. And Houston is obviously the energy capital of the world. And so there are a lot of Venezuelans who are in Houston. A lot of Houston oil companies have been down in Venezuela over the years, for many years. There was a group called the Citgo Six that were Americans who were imprisoned in Venezuela, and they were Houstonians. They worked for Citgo, the oil company. And Maduro had put them in prison. And I was their leading advocate in the Senate. I went to the Senate floor repeatedly. I spoke out for them. I leaned repeatedly on the regime. And ultimately, the Citgo Sikhs were released. But it had been. I visited with Maria Karina Machado, previously had been engaged. I've been engaged with the opposition leaders for some time. And part of that is, listen, I hate communists. It is, you know, my family was imprisoned and tortured by communists. My dad was imprisoned and tortured by Batista, who's not a communist, but my aunt, my Theasonia, was imprisoned and tortured by Castro's goons. And so when it comes to communists.
- [18:17]
Ben Ferguson
My Your tolerance level is extremely low.
- [18:21]
Ted Cruz
I think they're the embodiment of evil. And one of the real missions that I've had, really, since the day I got elected to the Senate, is trying to highlight dissidents. I think there's a real power to dissidents. There's a real power to those that stand up to tyrants, that show courage and that face prison and human rights abuses because we've seen tyrannies collapse because of the threats to their legitimacy. And so I've tried in my time in the Senate, really, to shine a light and amplify the message of dissidents.
- [18:54]
Ben Ferguson
You and I, by the way, have talked about this. This week when I was up in D.C. we had Bruce Pearl on, By the Way, if you missed that show, go back and listen to it. The famous basketball coach who's. Who's a man standing up for Israel right now.
- [19:06]
Ted Cruz
And, and that was a fun podcast.
- [19:08]
Ben Ferguson
It really was. Go back and grab it. But, but you and I have talked about.
- [19:11]
Ted Cruz
And by the way, I did. Did talk with someone last night who said. Said she loved the podcast, and she was up the most by hearing that Bruce and I shared having both run around naked in college, streaking on campus. So if you want to hear the story of that, go listen. Go listen to the last podcast.
- [19:28]
Compassion International Announcer
There you go.
- [19:29]
Ben Ferguson
That's an easy tease right there. You and I have talked about the moment that we're living in right now could be one of the biggest historical moments, certainly, of my lifetime. And that is we have three countries that without Donald Trump being president right now, if Kamala Harris was in the White House, we would not be having this conversation, I believe, that are on the verge of quite possibly having free and fair elections within the next 12 months. And that would be Iran, that would be Venezuela. That would also be Cuba. People are standing up for themselves and standing up to their government because they're being inspired by Donald Trump and what he's also said, which is, we have your back.
- [20:10]
Ted Cruz
Well, and I want to take a moment for us just to reflect on the incredible, consequential times we're living in. This is a point that I made to Machado when she was in D.C. i said, look, it is entirely possible that in the next few months, in the next six months, we could see the regimes fall in Venezuela, in Cuba and Iran. We could see elections in Venezuela. In Cuba and Iran, we could see leaders elected by the people who stand for freedom and who want to stand with America and be friends with America. We could see that in Venezuela, in Cuba and Iran, Iran, it could happen literally in the next few hours or the next few days. What is happening in Iran is so consequential. What is happening in Venezuela is so consequential, and Cuba is not far behind. And if that happens, that will be the single most significant foreign policy development the world has seen since the Berlin Wall was torn to the ground. It will literally remake the geopolitical map and the consequences of that. Now, to be clear, there are a thousand things that can go wrong. There are a thousand things that could go wrong in Venezuela, in Cuba, in Iran. It's not guaranteed. In fact, it is guaranteed to not be smooth and without challenges. It is a hundred percent. It will be bumpy, and there will be challenges. But all three regimes are in a panic. They are in a free fall. And the people of all three countries are energized. And if you were to pick three countries that for decades have been explicitly, passionately anti American, the regimes, the rulers, have been responsible for terrorism, responsible for threatening the lives of Americans, it would be difficult to find three more dangerous than Iran, Venezuela, and Cuba. And you're right, this is the direct consequence of strong leadership from the commander in chief. And it was interesting. One of the Democrat senators who was in the meeting with me, he actually pulled me aside afterwards and said, you know, Ted, you made this point yesterday that this could be a time as consequential as the Berlin Wall being torn to the ground. And he said, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you're right. And it was an interesting point. And I have to say, one of the things, look, I was really impressed with Machado, how she handled her message, by the way, to the senators, was that America's support is really important to Venezuela. And, and seeing some unity. Look, her message, she was not in any way chastising the Democrats, but she did say unity is really important. And what is happening, the people of Venezuela, this would not have happened without President Trump. And there were some very partisan Democrats in that room who were not thrilled to hear that message, because their message every day is, Trump bad, Trump bad, Trump bad. But she didn't want to argue with him on that. But she just said, listen, this is a moment we've waited decades for. And, and, and in the opposition, she said, so many people in Venezuela, what they said is, this day would never come, this day would never come. And it came and it is here. And, and, and seeing unity from America right now is so important. Look, I, I think the same is true for Iran seeing unity, standing with the protesters against the Ayatollah. If we are six months from now with the, with the governments and the leaders of those three countries being pro American and want, wanting to be our friends, that is like, holy cow. That makes the world much safer and that makes every American much safer.
- [24:09]
Ben Ferguson
As before, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from earlier this week to hear the entire thing.
- [24:18]
Compassion International Announcer
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- [25:33]
Ben Ferguson
Get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed. Let's get back to this. Just incredible meeting. The heroes and the bravery, especially the stories that we've been told going in after Maduro and, and look, the guy lived on a military base. He had these fighters that were supposed to be protecting him from Cuba. Seeing that what we had compared to what they had on the ground and the way that we came out without losing a single American life is just unbelievable. There were those, the soldiers, however, that were injured and shot and you got to meet them as they're recovering the hospital in San Antonio. Talk about this, their story. What did they have to say? What was their perspective?
- [26:15]
Ted Cruz
So we had three of our soldiers who were wounded during the raid and they're all at the hospital in San Antonio. They're being treated. The good news is that they're all in good condition. None are in life threatening condition. Now they were in good spirits. We had the opportunity to visit with each of the three of them, with each of their wives as well. They were there with their wives. And I will tell you that the first one we met with was a soldier who was in charge of helping plan the entire raid. He was leading one of the helicopters, and he had been shot in the leg. And he continued, even in the midst of being shot in the leg, continued. He did not step back from the fight. And he was critical in terms of his location, making sure, protecting his fellow soldiers. You know, I got to tell you, he was in great spirits. His wife was incredibly proud of him. And with all three of the soldiers, I took an opportunity to tell them. I said, look, you were part of history. You were part of history in a way without exaggeration that changed the entire Western hemisphere. What you did was profoundly important. And I also told them I took the chance on behalf of Texans and Americans, just to say thank you. Thank you for your bravery. Thank you for your heroism. They went into a situation where they were vastly outnumbered, and the Cuban military that were guarding Maduro opened fire. And it is amazing, it is an incredible testament to the precision and effectiveness of our military that not a single soldier on the American side was killed. There was a very large number of Cuban forces defending Maduro who were. Who were killed in that firefight and just taking the chance to thank them. And then the first soldier who had been shot in the leg, I was there with Pete Hegseth, the secretary of Defense. And Pete said, you know, if there's anything you need, let me know. And he said, well, actually, there is something you could do. And Pete said, what? And he said, I'd really like the bullet, the bullet that went into his leg. And the hospital had it. And the medical director at the hospital, he said, well, we have the bullet, but we're not allowed to give it over unless we give a waiver. And Pete, to his credit, said, the waiver is granted. You can have the bullet. And that soldier was beaming. He was thrilled to have the bullet. And actually, the second soldier we met, he had been shot, but he'd also been cut by a piece of shrapnel. He had a cut that ran the whole length of his arm. And he had the exact same request. He said, I'd really like the shrapnel. So they had the piece of metal that had cut his arm open. And again, the hospital said, we have it, but we're not allowed to give it to him without the waiver. And again, Pete said, we're granting the waiver. You can have it. So both of those, I assume that they're going to frame it or otherwise keep it as just a memento to the injury. The Purple Heart that they earned fighting for their country, but also being a. A part of profoundly impacting history.
- [29:34]
Ben Ferguson
You mentioned their wives were there. And I don't know if you can tell us, but age range, 20s, 30s, for, like, how old are these guys?
- [29:42]
Ted Cruz
The. The. The. One of the soldiers, the first soldier who helped plan. Plan the raid was. Was a little bit older. The other two were. Were young guys. And. And they were, you know, they were young guys, and they. They were not someone. Like, if you saw them walking down the street, you wouldn't do a double take. The first guy kind of looked a little like Captain America. He was a little. Yeah, but. But the. The other two, look, they were fit. They were in good shape. But. But the. The skill that, you know, they have, the heroism, you know, they have. If you just saw them on the street, you. You wouldn't immediately know that. And, and their wives were young, and it was interesting. Their wives were, you know, they said they were women of faith. They were praying for their husbands. They were really proud of their husbands, proud of everything that they had been through. And I'll tell you that the first soldier, he said, you know, Hegseth asked him, how are you feeling? And he said, I'm ready to go again.
- [30:46]
Ben Ferguson
That's amazing.
- [30:47]
Ted Cruz
And I said, great. Can you do Saturday? And he said, well, can we hold off till Monday? So that kind of gives you a sense of the spirit. They were really in good spirits. And actually with two of the soldiers, there was an additional soldier that was there in the hospital room who said he used to be their commanding officer, and he had rotated off the unit about six months before the raid. And he said, look, I'm really disappointed. I mean, it. It broke his heart that he just missed going on the raid. So he was there to be with his guys, but he did not go on the raid, and he was just cheering them on.
- [31:26]
Ben Ferguson
As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast, and you can listen to my podcast every other day. You're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to again the Ben Ferguson Podcast, and we will see you back here on Monday morning. This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human.