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- [00:00]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Jim
This is Jim.
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Senator Ted Cruz
Hello.
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Jim
Jim started advertising with iHeartRadio way back in April and now I have customers out the door. And this is Sarah.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Hi.
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Jim
She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Business is booming. That's why I'm working on a Saturday.
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Jim
Wanna be like Jim and Sarah? It's easy. All you have to do is own or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iheartadvertising.com.
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Ben Ferguson
Welcome. It is vertic with center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. And today's episode is going to be a very special one with a very special guest. And I hope that you will take this episode and share it on social media. Also, if you want to watch it on YouTube, it's there. Because, Senator, we're dealing with a very important and also a very tough subject right now that is on the minds of a lot of Americans. And I want you to explain why we decided to do this show and also introduce our guest.
- [02:03]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, we're going to be focusing today on the rise of radical Islam in America and also the rise of radical Islam across the globe. And we're going to talk about Comrade Mondame, who we devoted the entire last podcast to his rise in New York, to the very real possibility of that we will have a communist, a Marxist jihadist as the next mayor of New York and how frightening that is. We're going to talk also about the Muslim Brotherhood and what the Muslim Brotherhood is and why I am leading the fight to have the Muslim Brotherhood declared a terrorist organization. We're going to talk about what's happening in Nigeria, about the systematic mass murder of Christians in Nigeria by Boko Haram and other radical Islamic terrorists. And we're also going to talk about Somalia and the prospect of America recognizing Somaliland and how we can fight back against extremist forces in Africa and all of that. We're going to have this conversation with a special guest. So our guest today is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Ayaan was born in Mogadishu, Somalia, in 1969. She grew up and she was raised as a Muslim. And as she got older, she began to question aspects of her faith. One day, while listening to a sermon on the many ways women should be obedient to their husbands, she couldn't resist asking, must our husbands obey us? Also, in 1992, Ayaan fled to the Netherlands to escape a forced marriage. There she was granted asylum and in time, citizenship. She quickly learned Dutch and was able to study at the University of Leiden, earning her MA in political science. She worked as a translator for Somali immigrants. And she saw firsthand the inconsistencies, the tensions between liberal Western society and tribal Muslim cultures. From 2003 to 2006, Ayaan served as an elected member of the Dutch Parliament. Actually, in 2005, Time magazine named her one of the 100 most influential people in the world. In parliament, she focused on the integration of Muslim immigrants into Dutch society and on fighting for the rights of women. Now today, she is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution and she is a founder of the AHA Foundation. And Ayaan, welcome to verdict.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Senator, thank you for having me on.
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Senator Ted Cruz
We are very glad to have you. Let's start by just if you could briefly, I shared a little bit of your bio, but just tell us your story. Tell us your story of the journey you have taken because it's an extraordinary story and I think our listeners and viewers would be very interested in hearing it.
- [05:02]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Well, thank you. I think you really summarized it very well. I was born in Somalia. I was raised a Muslim in a Muslim family. I was born in political household. My father was very much. He was very much influenced by America during the Cold War when the world was divided into two hemispheres, those that supported the US and those that supported the ideology of ussr. I'm proud to say that my family supported the US And I don't want to say that my father was entirely secular, but I want to say we suffered at the hands of communism, at the hands of Islamism. Whatever you can. I'm very intimately familiar with some of these totalitarian ideologies, not from books, but from real experience. And it's one of the reasons why I reject them so completely. But I thought the introduction you gave was fair and very good. And I find myself in the United States a citizen and a very grateful citizen to be American.
- [06:11]
Senator Ted Cruz
So, Ayan, tell us, what is Islamism and how does it differ from there? Well over a billion practicing Muslims worldwide. Not every Muslim is an Islamist. What's the difference between the two?
- [06:27]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Political Islam, I would say, is in some ways different from general Islam. I know some of my fellow researchers are just going to be really upset with me when I make this distinction. But in practice, when I look at countries like United Arab Emirates and the leaders of the United Arab Emirates, what they are trying to say is, look, there is Islam as a civilization. We're trying to cope and modernize and do. This is our national identity. This is our religious ident. But on the other hand, is political Islam, which is that what is promoted by the Muslim Brotherhood. And political Islam is a modern movement that was born out of the fall of the Islamic empire in 1924. When the Ottoman Caliphate fell apart, they developed this ideology, collectivist, totalitarian, which is in pursuit of establishing Islamic dominance or over the what used to be the Islamic heartlands and then spread out throughout the rest of the world. So we're looking at an Islamist political ideology versus Islam, a civilization. Islam has a lot of problems, and I'm the first one to admit that. But I think as Americans today, and our focus should be on political Islam because it's easier to diagnose, it's easier to define. We know what the objectives are. We know who leads them, and we know. We know also that they have formed an alliance with radical communists. With communists, they operate as a subversive effort which I call dawa. And then there is, of course, we are familiar with the terrorist or jihadi aspect of it. So complicated, yes, conceptually, but in practice, easy to define, easy to understand, and in my view, easy to combat.
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Senator Ted Cruz
Well, and look, the way I understand it, and you're far more of an expert in this than I, but I draw a distinction between Islamists who seek to enforce not only their faith but Sharia law and to use force and power to forcibly convert others and to forcibly subjugate others to Islam. And for me, at least, I use Islamist and jihadist somewhat interchangeably, which is the commitment to using force, to using violence to dominate and defeat the infidels. And I would draw a distinction, you know, there's some countries like you take for example India, which has a very large Muslim population but not a very high incidence of Islamism. There's, there's less political Islam there than there is. You look at the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and the willingness to, and in fact the commitment to forcibly subjugate others is profoundly dangerous. And I would say Ayan, in my view Europe is 10 to 20 years ahead of America in this, in that Europe allowed itself to see a full on invasion and it really is in many ways captive of the rising Islamist force. America thankfully is not there yet, but we can look to Europe as foreshadowing of where things could end up. Do you agree with that assessment? And look, you were a member of the Dutch parliament, so you have a lot of experience in Europe and seeing what happened to Europe over the last couple of decades.
- [10:18]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
I completely agree with you. And I think the countries to listen to today are the heartlands of Islam, the rulers of the United Arab Emirates and maybe even Saudi Arabia. Because in 2010, 2011, 2012, I think these countries were support before that they were supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. They had welcomed them, they had given them access to their institutions of socialization. And then they discovered that the ideology that the Muslim Brotherhood was committed to was one that wanted to overthrow them. And from that moment they were able to do that. Uturn where they kicked out, they banned the Muslim Brotherhood, understanding them number one to be a subversive effort and terrorism and jihadism is sort of a tool to help the subversive effort. So the Muslim Brotherhood is banned in the uae, they are banned in Egypt, in Bahrain, in all of these countries. And I think we should be doing the same thing. The thing about the danger for us in Europe and in the United States is the Muslim Brotherhood comes in legitimately saying hey all, all we're doing is observing religion. We are taking advantage of our freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom of, freedom of, freedom of. And they're using these freedoms to subvert our own societies. And I think that is the trick for us. You as a senator in Congress, you are going to have to grapple with the question how do I deal with a subversive effort like this one that's seeking to destroy our system while at the same time not violating those freedoms. That's something that some of these Arab countries don't have to deal with. Singapore doesn't have to deal with. That's our problem. I compare the Muslim Brotherhood if you ask me. Can you explain it to someone who doesn't know, I'll say, hey, if you live in Texas, have you ever been confronted with a termite infestation? When I was little and we lived in Mogadishu, we had termites and they would eat up into some of these valuable wooden. Like my, my grandmother had this enormous cupboard that she had been moving from Aden in Yemen all the way here. And from one day to the next, the whole thing came. It just, she moved it and it just fell. And she discovered in the back were these teeny tiny termites that were acting as a colony. They were eating, eating away at it. And that is the Muslim Brotherhood. It's a bottom up operation. It's decentralized, it's globalized. One day they'll speak the language of peace and unity and the next the language of jihad and war. And it's very, very difficult for us to look at this. But because they've been around since 1928, for those of us who really want to see the truth, we can see it. We know how they operate. We know who they are. We know that they go through universities, the media, the elites, through commerce. And so now that we have this big picture, we just need the courage and the political will to say, you are not going to do to the United States what you did to Europe. You're not going to do to Europe what you did to Nigeria and to other parts of Africa, Tunisia, India, etc.
- [13:43]
Ben Ferguson
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Absolutely. Also because they operate on a different timeline that is, it's very important to bear that in mind. They know that in the United States we operate, oh yeah, two years to the midterm, four years to the presidential election. So they think, oh, these white Western Christians, they have two year and four year timelines. They have 100 year timeline, 200, 300. As long as Islam becomes dominant and they can impose Sharia, that is their faith, number one. Number two, they form alliances with organizations and movements that are completely different from them. So for instance, the communist Marxist again infestation that is there to destroy us, they form alliances with them because they have that common goal of as long as we bring down the structures of America, way down the road we're going to figure out who is going to dominate. Now let me give you one hint. In the Years prior to 1979 in Iran, the Islamists and the Marxists were operating together. What happened when they succeeded in their goal of destroying the Shah and his regime? The Islamists then destroyed the communists. So that is a warning for the Marxists to say, I don't know who's going to destroy.
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Ben Ferguson
Repeats itself.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Yeah.
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Senator Ted Cruz
So what do you make of the Red Green alliance? And that seems to be the energy and passion behind Zorad Mandani. What do you make of Mandani? And as someone who has come from Somalia who has seen this, how do you assess what's happening in New York?
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Well, the way I see it is. Mamdani is a reflection of both movements. So he is a watermelon, the son of a watermelon. And he comes in saying, explain watermelon.
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Senator Ted Cruz
To someone who hasn't heard that before.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali
It's, it's the red green alliance. If you've ever seen a watermelon, it's green on the outside. We say Islamist or political Islam on the outside and red red communist or Marxist on the inside. So they have a common objective, which is they hate capitalism, they hate our system of government. They have each of them. There's a green utopia, which is the world is going to be dominated by Islam and we'll have Sharia law. And then everything will be well. And then of course you have the red, the Marxists that they're going to destroy capitalism.
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Senator Ted Cruz
And so Ayaan, what does it mean to live under Sharia law? Like, what would it mean for America if the Islamists succeeded as they're moving closer and closer to doing in Europe? What would that mean?
- [18:53]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
As a practical matter, it would mean a great deal of violence, chaos. Women will be the subjects of men. I mean, they'll have absolutely no rights. Non Muslims will be subjected to the jiza. How do I explain that? It's, it's, it's a lower status for non Muslims if you're only people of the book. Gosh, if you're Jewish, you're going to be subjected to what Jewish people who are subjected to. On October 7th, you see this.
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Senator Ted Cruz
So you're talking about violence and rape and murder.
- [19:29]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Violence, rape, murder. I'm talking about floggings, public floggings. I'm talking about public stonings. Some of the horrors that you now see in Nigeria, you see in parts of Indonesia, you saw in Afghanistan, you still see it. Do you remember how the Taliban had promised a few years ago to the Biden administration? Oh, we're not, we're going to give women their rights. But they have denied women the rights to go to school. They have denied women the rights to do anything. Basically you become son factories is what I was told when I was forced into marriage. The man I was about to be married off, he said, you're going to have six sons for me or else. This is well known. I mean, it is going to be, it's going to be the worst human existence you can ever imagine. It's a death culture.
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Senator Ted Cruz
So Jan, let me ask you why. Because on the left, many leftists also consider themselves feminists and by the way, other leftists consider themselves LGBT activists. Is Islamism consistent with any feminist notion or any notion of LGBT rights?
- [20:39]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Absolutely not. Look, in the countries where Sharia law is actually applied, homosexuals, the LGBT community, they are taken to the tallest structures, tallest buildings, towers, whatever, and they are thrown off from there. That is the law. The law is to execute homosexuals. Women are to be covered and not to be seen. They are completely submissive. So that is Sharia law as it is applied anywhere in reality. But there is this political expediency where people who are on the far left, the antifas of this world, the Mamdani, or one wing of the Mamdani followers, they think we are the ones. Once we get, you know, once we destroy America, once we destroy the existing structures, they think that they're going to dominate. That's just not how it works. But hey, why spoil their party? If Ocasio Cortez thinks that she and Mom Dani have something in common, why spoil the party? I think the rest of us are going to say no, we don't want any of these collectivist, subversive efforts. And ask the question, how is it possible that the capitalist city, the finance city of the world, Manhattan, is about to elect this. These people?
- [21:59]
Senator Ted Cruz
And what's your take on that? Are you surprised by the rise of Mandani? What is, given your life experience, is this surprising to you or not?
- [22:11]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
It's not surprising because in the last 30, 40 years, I think what we have seen is this display of extreme, lethal carelessness on the part of American elites, where we have come to think of ourselves as invincible. We just think if we have enough materialism, that everybody is going to be attracted to who we are and what we do, and we don't have to worry about these collectivist ideologies. We killed Christianity. We killed spirituality. We turned our backs on our foundational principles, and we are paying the price. And we are paying the price because our institutions of education From K to 12, the universities, we've allowed these people to take over and to preach. And when I look at a stadium full of people in New York that are cheering on Ocasio Cortez and Mamdani, I think we are paying the price of this carelessness.
- [23:09]
Ben Ferguson
For me, being able to protect my family is my number one priority. And you've heard me talk to my good friend Josh from Burna about real stories of people just like you and me that have used their burner launcher to protect themselves and their families. Now, Burna is a handheld pistol that fires both kinetic rounds and chemical irritants to separate you from an attacker. You can see the videos of how this works@burna.com and I'll tell you more about that in a moment. But Josh is back with me today to tell a story of how a burner launcher could help avoid a tragedy. This was actually a story that happened in my hometown of Houston.
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Josh from Burna
This is such a tragic story that just recently happened. One night recently here In Houston, an 11 year old Julian Guzman and his cousin were banging on neighbors doors and running away before they were answered. A generations old game that we all know as ding dong ditch. Well when they came to the residence of Gonzalo Leon Jr. Gonzalo would later state that the two banged on his door multiple times and believing they were there to try to break into his home, Gonzalo exited the house and fired at Julian with a handgun, ultimately killing him. Now while in Texas, like many states we have strong stand your ground and castle doctrine laws, but homeowners at still may only use deadly force when it's immediately necessary to prevent assault, robbery or other crimes after someone unlawfully enters their property. And I think everyone can agree that no matter where you live and in this case that did not meet those requirements. And unfortunately the homeowner in this case has now been arrested for murder with a bond set of million dollars and prosecutors have stated that they will be seeking the death penalty.
- [24:42]
Ben Ferguson
If a homeowner thinks someone may be breaking in, what should their priorities be and how should be Burna fit into that plan? Is a really important question everyone should be asking.
- [24:52]
Josh from Burna
No matter where you live, your plan should be to escape to get to a safe location and many times that doesn't mean engaging the intruders directly. Burn is great for using either chemical rounds or the kinetic rounds to buy you and your family time to get out and get to safety which should be your main priority.
- [25:08]
Ben Ferguson
If you want to know more about exactly what Burna can do to help you protect your family, see the videos and see how it works. Go to Burna B R n a.com There's a reason why I bought it for all of my family members and why I have it in every one of my cars. Burna by rna.com Again that's burna.com I ask you this question. You look at Europe for a second and and as as Senator said earlier, hopefully they're 10 to 20 years ahead of us and that we can actually combat this before it gets to that point. But when you look at Mandani and AOC and the Lamars and the others that have really started to grow and they have a genuine following in the United States of America, how much of the plan of the Muslim Brotherhood and excitement is there to know they have these types of advocates that aren't just saying things. Yes. But are getting elected and are becoming more powerful.
- [26:03]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
So I think there's a scenario where in America, I'm more hopeful because at least 80% of Americans don't believe in this BS. We have people who come from Latin America, places like Venezuela, Cuba. I mean, Senator Cruz, you know this better than I do. People like me. I've lived through that bs So I know I don't want communism. Okay. I'm not Ilhan Omagh.
- [26:30]
Ben Ferguson
You've experienced it firsthand.
- [26:31]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Yeah, I've experienced. Yeah. So if we, if we get it right in America, and I think we can get it right in America, we are in a place maybe where we can be of help and rescue our European counterparts and the rest of Western civilization.
- [26:49]
Senator Ted Cruz
So let me ask, let me ask a bit more about your personal journey. So you were raised as a Muslim and you embraced for a period of time, political Islam, Islamism, and then you came to reject it. And you spent a lot of years as a very vocal atheist. And my understanding is now you become a Christian. And I'd love to hear about why you became a Christian.
- [27:16]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
I think maybe you should see it as sort of like a ripening, like peeling away. When you first come to Western civilization, you see the glitter and glamour, which is what I saw when I landed in Frankfurt in 1992. My goodness, everything was gleaming, these tall buildings and wealth. And so you go beyond that layer. And I started to ask questions, why are these countries rich and united and solid, while where I come from, even though we claim to have the last prophet and we claim to be superior, morally speaking, why are we living in impoverishment? Why are we here begging for alms? And when I took political science in the University of Leiden, I was lucky enough to have professors that taught me to keep asking questions, to learn how to think, not what to think. And my tribute goes to these professors. One the of of them recently died, Professor Anderbech, who is really empirical, he taught me, you've got to understand what is before you talk about what should be. But in any case, I want to say, having lived through and touched the bottom of the promised utopia of Sharia law, the promised utopia of communism, and knowing there is nothing there but death, like poverty, there is nothing there but oppression and suppression. There's nothing there but misery. I'm in a place where now I have come to see that the only way we fight those ideologies is by getting to the bottom of what are then the solid foundations of Western civilization. That is biblical, it's Judeo Christian, it is the Sermon on the Mount. I mean, there is no denying it. It is the principles on which America is founded on. And right now, America has been served well. But over time, I think if you have two competing ideas, it's the idea of communism, it's the idea of Islamism, and then it's the idea of America. And I want, want the idea of America to win, and I want to dedicate my life to that.
- [29:41]
Senator Ted Cruz
Amen. Let me ask you, we were talking about the Muslim Brotherhood for our listeners. Tell them what is the Muslim Brotherhood? As you know, I've had, I have legislation I've introduced in multiple Congresses to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. And in the first Trump administration, I came close to succeeding. I didn't quite convinced the president in the first term to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. I believe I will succeed in the second term. I think we're going to get it designated. But tell us, give us a little bit of history and context of what the Brotherhood is and your judgment on whether it is in fact a terrorist organization and should be designated as such.
- [30:26]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
I think the challenge for you, Senate Cruz, is going to be that you are going to have to understand the two concepts as you legislate. And it's going to be difficult, but I think you can do it. One part of it is the terrorist aspect of it, which is the application of jihad or violence. The other aspect, the other side of the Muslim Brotherhood is the subversive effort which we have had. We are an open society. Maybe we'll debate what an open society means or doesn't mean, but it's easy to access open societies if you are a subversive, if you apply the subversive method. And so for you, on a legislative basis, you will have to not only address the terrorist aspect, which carries the violence, but also the dawah, the subversive part of it. The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by a teacher, Hassan Al Banna, in Egypt. And what he understood was that he had to deal with the fragmentation of Islam. As he understood it, Islam was no longer an empire. Islam now was subjugated to the European powers that had developed nation states in the nation state of Egypt. He understood that if he ever wanted to get state power, he would have to work very slowly and bottom up. Start with the individual, the family, society. He preached about forming charities. And then over time and time for them seems a completely different concept than what we have. Having persuaded as many people as possible, taking on the levers of the state, that is the method that they apply. They've honed it. This is a method that's now become improved over time. In Arab countries it no longer works because Arab dominating governments have come to understand this thing has come for them. So now they work in Europe and in America they set up mosques and then schools, Islamic centers. They'll apply a whole neighborhood. And over time they want to grow. And like, do you remember the litmus paper when you drop. And just the way it spreads, that is the way they want to take over societies. And they have succeeded. I mean, look at Dearborn, Michigan for us in the United States of America. But when you go to the uk, France, Sweden, these are societies that are being taken over as they watch it. And they stand there and they all say, there's nothing we can do. Because the constitution, so the local constitutions, national constitutions, have become documents that the Muslim Brotherhood can wave to, say, you can't stop us because everything we do is legal, everything we do is peaceful or nonviolent. They'll apply the violence when they need it. But really they don't need to apply the violence because with demographics, explain to.
- [33:56]
Senator Ted Cruz
An American who has not seen it, you just talked about how European countries were taken over by the Brotherhood and Islamist. Make that real. Explain what that means and what exactly has happened. Because I think that is a powerful warning to what could happen here as well.
- [34:13]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
When I was a member of Parliament in 2006 and I was brought in to be the voice of modernity and Westernism, here's a woman from Somalia, whatever. And look, look at her. She has assimilated, blah, blah, blah. So they brought me in. But then in 2006, we had local elections. The local elections. The Netherlands is a very small country and there are four large cities. The Hague, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht. If my party, the vvd, which was the center right party, wanted to win any of these urban cities, I had to be told to go there and say, Islam is a religion of peace. I said, I'm not going to say anything of the sort. I've got six armed guards. I'm not going to say Islam is a religion of peace.
- [35:07]
Senator Ted Cruz
Repeat that for a second. You had six armed guards. Why is that? Who was trying to kill you?
- [35:14]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
The people who were trying to kill me. Was the protected minority of Muslims, many of them who were radicalized by the Muslim local Muslim Brotherhood in the Netherlands. And the local Muslim Brotherhood had had control of the larger Muslim communities. And at that point we knew that not all Muslims in the Netherlands were loyal to them. But they, it was like the mafia. If you're a Muslim living in the Netherlands, in one of these large cities, if they told you vote this way, you vote that way. And so the woman who was sort of sent in there, you know, colored, immigrant, whatever she was saying, I can't win the votes if Ayaan is saying, is making these statements about Islam and the position of women and homosexuals and Christians and Jews and all of these things. So in order for me to win the vote or to even be competitive, I have to at least accommodate them in some of these policies. Now what are the policies that they were looking for? They wanted to enshrine Islamophobia as law. They wanted to the government of the Netherlands to leave them alone so that they could treat women the way they wanted. They wanted fgm. They wanted honor killings. They just wanted.
- [36:34]
Senator Ted Cruz
And explain fgm, Female genital mutilation.
- [36:38]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
That is the cutting of the genitals of women. I mean it is as a five year old girl they take, I'm talking to men here. But look at the female genitals, you cut the inner labia, the outer labia and you saw. So that, you know, on day of your wedding you can be presented to your husband as a virgin. And this is, this is something that predated Islam but obviously embraced by Muslims and spread across the globe by the Muslim Brotherhood. But these are some of the policies that we had to deal with. They wanted Sharia tribunals for marriage, divorce and that sort of thing. They were bringing in Sharia in a stealthily way. And if you wanted to win these elections in these large cities, that was in the Netherlands, but now it's in France, it's in Belgium, it's in the United Kingdom, it's all over Europe. So we're talking about demographics, which they control. And so as a politician, I think you understand numbers when it comes to winning elections. And they held those numbers. And this is what you have to understand. So you can't just legislate on the terror. You can't just declare them a terrorist organization. You have to deal with the subversive efforts, the fact that they control schools, boarding schools.
- [37:57]
Ben Ferguson
Want to take a moment and just talk to you real quick about an incredible opportunity for you to continue to expand your mind and learn no matter what your age is. Senator Cruz and I were at the memorial service for Charlie Kirk and one of the people that spoke was the president of Hillsdale College. And he talked about meeting with Charlie early on and how he said, you're going to have to work hard, you're going to have to suffer and you're going to have to continue to learn when he was so young. And he talked about all of the classes that Charlie ended up taking at Hillsdale. I immediately said, I want the listeners of this show to be able to have the same opportunity to do that. There are amazing classes. History, economics, the great works of literature, the meaning of the US Constitution. And if you didn't study these things in school, or maybe you did, but you were like, you know, just trying to check the box and make the grade. When you're 20, now is a great time for you to go back and learn so much more. Hillsdale College is offering More than 40 free. I want to say that again. 40 free online courses. That's right. More than 40 free online courses. You can learn about the works of C.S. lewis, the stories in the book of Genesis, the meaning of the US Constitution. I'm doing that one. It's incredible. The rise and fall of the Roman Republic or the history of the ancient Christian church. With Hiddlestown College's free online courses. Now I'm also looking at the Constitution 101. It's amazing. A refresher course and you can see and explore the design, the purpose of the Constitution, the challenges it faced in the Civil war and how it's been undermined for more than a century by progressives and liberals. This 12 lecture course is self paced, so you start whenever you want to and it is truly amazing. So how do you do this? You can go right now to Hillsdale Edu Verdict to enroll. There is no cost and it's easy to get started. That's Hillsdale Edu Verdict. V E R D I C T to enroll for free and take any one of these classes. Take advantage of it. It's free Hillsdale Edu Verdict Verdict. And go check out the amazing classes they have there.
- [40:20]
Senator Ted Cruz
Tell us what's happening in Nigeria. And as you know, I've been very vocal calling out the mass murder of Christians. Over 50,000 Christians have been murdered in Nigeria since 2009. Over 20,000 churches and schools have been destroyed, burned to the ground. And you have Boko Haram and other radical Islamic terrorist groups that are targeting and persecuting Christians in particular. And I will Tell you, the government of Nigeria is very unhappy with me. They have decried my saying this. I have introduced legislation to designate them a country of special concern. And the government of Nigeria is very unhappy. And I've said, look, there are far too many government leaders who have turned a blind eye to what is happening, who have acquiesced in what is happening happening, who are enforcing either Sharia laws or blasphemy laws and facilitating the persecution of Christians. And as I said, the Nigerian government has been vigorously resisting me in this. Give me your judgment. What do you see happening in Nigeria and what do you think is actually the truth?
- [41:25]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Nigeria is the most important African American country. It has the largest population. And obviously there's a vying for control between, on the one hand, the Islamic states of Nigeria and the Christian states of Nigeria. And it used to be about 50, 50, but because the Islamist movement, Boko Haram and others, they want to apply force, the jihadist force, this sort of gruesome killing that we've seen on October 7th in 2023 in Israel. So what is going on in Nigeria? The Islamists in Nigeria are killing Christians. They're burning their churches, they're raping their women. They are invoking blasphemy laws. So in the southern regions of Nigeria, Sharia law is the law. And if you say Ted Cruz has, you know, he said something bad against Islam, you can have a mob come and lynch you and there's nothing you can do about it, but then the government should be doing something about it, and the government isn't doing anything about it. Now, what is the characteristic of the government of Nigeria? It's corrupt. The elites in Nigeria, whether they are Muslim or whether they're Christian, they're in this bubble, and I think that bubble has to be burst. They're in a comfort bubble. I don't really think that. That they care about that much about or are held responsible or accountable or transparent for what is going on with a large majority of the Nigerian population. And that's what you see. And we give a lot of money as the United States and legitimacy to this government. We've got to hold them accountable. And I. I couldn't be more pleased that you are involved in this, Senator Cruz. You're calling them out. You're going to say, if you want to be our ally and our friend, we need you to uphold your end of being a responsible and responsive government. There's a goal.
- [43:23]
Senator Ted Cruz
There are more Christians being murdered in Nigeria than any country on planet Earth. Now, one thing you said That I thought was interesting. And I think many of our listeners will not have heard this before. You said in your judgment, Nigeria is the most important African community country. To tell our listeners why that. Why that is because many will not have a deep familiarity with that.
- [43:45]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
It has the largest population. It has oil resources. The population is very young. It's English speaking, highly educated. Let me just give you an example. Kemi Badano. I hope the future prime minister of the United Kingdom is from Nigeria and is Christian. So if we were, you know, in our relationship with right now, Russia, China, et cetera, I think the continent as a whole, the continent of Africa, which is home to over a billion people.
- [44:19]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yes. And growing a young population that is growing significantly.
- [44:23]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
It's the youngest population and it's the only population on planet Earth that is growing as rapidly as it's doing.
- [44:30]
Senator Ted Cruz
Right.
- [44:31]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
And so Nigeria is strategically important. Nigeria is the sort of country that should be our ally, and there is a huge Christian population. That means they share norms and values with us, and we should not be abandoning Nigeria. And so the population is pro American, but then they are let down by their government. And I think that can change if we were even to bring a little bit of leverage down on them because.
- [45:04]
Ben Ferguson
And we have that leverage. When you say a little bit of leverage, what do you mean? Like, what would the leverage look like that you think could literally save lives, especially Christian lives in Nigeria who are being attacked right now?
- [45:18]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Well, it starts from the amounts of development aid money that we give them. We could apply sanctions. We could. I mean, we.
- [45:32]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, my legislation would sanctions particular government officials, so government officials at the local level who are engaged in facilitating and acquiescing in this persecution. And so it's designed to use the power of the U.S. economy and U.S. sanctions to incentivize different behavior.
- [45:54]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Absolutely. And incentivize the sort of legitimacy is really important for them to keep their money in America. To, you know, all of these, the private jets, they come and they play in America. And American allies, even when they play in Europe, I think we have a say over that.
- [46:13]
Senator Ted Cruz
Sure.
- [46:13]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
But I don't want to go into the details of that. But I think we can leverage our information influence to make the Nigerian government stop the violence immediately. They have Sharia law in the southern regions. We can. And then we say, oh, human rights this, that and the other, where you have Sharia law, you do not have human rights. Are you crazy?
- [46:35]
Senator Ted Cruz
Absolutely. Absolutely. And we need to stand up and we need to fight vigorously to prevent it here in the United States. Okay, final topic, and we're going to wrap up in just a couple. Couple of minutes. But. But you were born in Somalia. As you know, I've publicly called on the Trump administration to recognize Somaliland as a separate and independent nation. Tell our viewers what you think about that, and if you think that makes sense, tell them why I think we.
- [47:02]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Should reward Somaliland for what they have achieved. They have been since 1960. I mean, the former dictatorial government, Siad Barre, they were massacred. They were lured into becoming part of Somalia. They became part of Somalia and they have come to live to regret it. But at the moment, very quickly, they are the only viable nation state. They have a homogenous population. They speak one language. And there is a narrative of national identity, of common suffering, but also common survival. Survival. You know, as a Somali, I will tell you something. I'm not. I'm. I'm an American, but born in Somalia. I will say that one of the things that we Somalis excel at is in vengeance. But the leadership of Somaliland have decided after 1991 that they were not going to channel the energy of their population into vengeance, but into rebuild, into building what is a nation. And they are economically violent. I think that may have oil and gas. I think that they could be a strategic partner. I admire.
- [48:10]
Senator Ted Cruz
And they want to stand with America. They are standing up. It is in our national interest to recognize Somaliland. Amen. To have a major ally on the horn of Africa that is standing with us. That's significant. And look, I am someone who is very much America first. We should be putting American national security interests first. And recognizing Somaliland enhances those interests.
- [48:39]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Absolutely. They are absolutely on the same page as they also, they have recognized Israel. They have defined. They have a defined territory. They have a permanent part population. They issue passports. But the most important thing is that they hold elections. One man, one vote for president, for parliament and local elections. And you can come and survey those and see that they are actually in some ways better than our American elections. And so I think Somaliland should be rewarded for the fact that they have built nation. They do not rely on development aid. They never relied on U.S. aid. Yeah. So please liberate them from. What is Somalia, Mogadishu, which is just a broken jihadi place.
- [49:32]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, Ayaan, thank you for taking the time. Thank you for joining us. I think this has been a very informative podcast. I think our listeners are really going to get a lot out of it. Let me encourage our listeners share this podcast if you want your friends, your family to understand, understand the threat of political Islam, what it means, what it's meant in Europe, what it, what it means here in America. I think it is an incredibly important topic. It is a very real threat. It is a threat that I am committed to combating. And one of the purposes of this podcast is to equip you, to give you information that when you're talking with, with your friends and families and colleagues and coworkers that you know the truth. And Ayanna, I think this has been very, very helpful to our listeners. So thank you so much for joining us.
- [50:18]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Thank you. Thank you, Ted.
- [50:20]
Ben Ferguson
Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So hit that subscribe or that auto download button wherever you are. And like the Senator said, please share this on social media. It's on YouTube as well. You can watch it and share it there as well. And the senator and I will see you back here on Friday morning.
- [50:35]
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- [51:35]
Jim
This is Jim.
- [51:36]
Senator Ted Cruz
Hello.
- [51:37]
Jim
Jim started advertising with iHeartRadio way back in April and now I have customers out the door. And this is Sarah.
- [51:44]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Hi.
- [51:44]
Jim
She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June.
- [51:48]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Business is booming. That's why I'm working on a Saturday day.
- [51:52]
Jim
Want to be like Jim and Sarah? It's easy. All you have to do is own or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iheartadvertising.
- [52:03]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Com. This is an Iheart Pod.