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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Ben Ferguson
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Podcast Host
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- [00:50]
Bobby Bones
You know Eddie and I recently stopped by yeah in Nashville. It's an incredible nonprofit empowering kids through music education. Thanks to Hyundai. We recorded a special podcast episode while we were there.
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Senator Ted Cruz
How do you think learning an instrument helps kids with confidence?
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Music Educator
Learning an instrument allows them to discover a little bit further of who they are and be comfortable with it and then share a little bit about that with others. And if it's done in an environment that is celebrating and championing them, then that confidence can only go up.
- [01:22]
Bobby Bones
The full episode is out now presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 9 today. Donate and learn more about yeah's mission. Just visit yarocks.org support for the show
- [01:32]
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- [03:03]
Podcast Co-Host
Welcome.
- [03:04]
Ben Ferguson
It is verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. And Senator, you're in Washington D.C. with
- [03:09]
Podcast Co-Host
a very special guest on a very important piece of legislation. This is one of those shows that there is a extremely important piece of legislation that you are working on in Washington D.C. and there are countless people that listen to show that may know victims. And this is a show I hope you will hit pause and you will share it on social media because it is an important law that we're talking about right now.
- [03:34]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well that's exactly right. And this is a special show because we're talking today about child sexual abuse and it is an epidemic across this country. So many children are the victims of sexual abuse. And we're going to talk about legislation that I introduced today in the Senate to empower the victims of sexual abuse and a very special guest that is joining us today and you're going to get a chance to hear about her journey and tragically her brother's journey as a victim of sexual abuse.
- [04:09]
Ben Ferguson
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- [05:26]
Podcast Co-Host
It's on, it's on YouTube, it's on Facebook. I hope you'll share it and just take the time because there are people that are out there that need to hear this show, that are victims.
- [05:36]
Ben Ferguson
And this is one of those important
- [05:37]
Podcast Co-Host
shows where you don't know whose life you're going to be able to help and affect in a positive way, whose life literally could be saved because of this show and the information that they're going to hear. And this legislation center that you introduced today in Washington, D.C. is incredible. And your guest who's with you in D.C. as well, it's amazing the story that she is telling, but also just how powerful it is to stand up for so many others that need help.
- [06:07]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, that's right. This week I introduced legislation in the Senate called Trey's Law and it is designed to protect kids, kids who tragically are the victims of sexual assault. And Trey's Law prohibits non disclosure agreements binding children who have been victims of sexual assault. And this is a problem we are seeing nationwide, a staggering statistic. A child in America is sexually abused every nine minutes. Yeah. One in four girls in America will be sexually abused before she turns 18. One in six boys in America will be sexually abused before he turns 18. And we have been seeing over and over again when their violators are held accountable, when they're prosecuted and when there is civil litigation, that it is becoming routine for the violators to insist upon a non disclosure agreement, a non disclosure agreement that binds the children and forces them to be silent. And Trey's Law is named for a Texan, Trey Carlock, who horrifically was abused at a summer camp in Missouri, abused over a number of years. And his abuser was prosecuted. His abuser is serving three consecutive life terms in prison. And in the course of civil litigation, Trey was convinced to sign a non disclosure agreement. And that secret haunted him. So much so that at 28 years old, he took his own life. And that is a tragedy in his life and his family's life. But it's a tragedy nationally. And we have a guest on the podcast tonight who is another Texan, Elizabeth Phillips. Elizabeth is Trey's sister and she has taken the, the grief and agony of losing her brother and of knowing what happened to him. Losing her brother. It's one thing to lose a sibling in a car accident. My sister died of a drug overdose. It is always difficult to lose a family member that you love, but it is particularly gut wrenching.
- [08:52]
Podcast Co-Host
Yeah.
- [08:53]
Senator Ted Cruz
To lose a family member who, you know, was the victim of abuse and was haunted by that. And I will tell you, Elizabeth, she lives in Dallas and, and she has devoted thousands of hours to fighting for Trey's Law. Trey's Law has been adopted a number of states, including Texas, Texas has, has adopted Trey's Law and at the state level. But today with, with, with a group of, of seven bipartisan co sponsors I've introduced at the federal level and we're going to get past at the federal level, but I want to start. Elizabeth, welcome to Verdict. We're glad to have you.
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Elizabeth Phillips
Thank you so much for not just the introduction of Trey's Law to U.S. congress this morning, but for offering this platform as well. And I agree. I hope it goes viral. Every parent needs to understand how this system works because I think there are a lot of assumptions that if your child is sexually abused, whether it be at a summer camp, which was Trey's story, or a school or a faith based setting or sports setting, they're going to come forward immediately. But there's something called delayed disclosure. Children that are victimized in this way don't come forward oftentimes for decades, if ever at all. And we need to be sure that we are protecting children in their voices so that when they do come forward, survivors are heard, believed and that we can respond with action to hold the bad actors accountable.
- [10:17]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
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Elizabeth Phillips
So thank you for the conversation.
- [10:19]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, thank you for being here. Let me ask you, could you just tell your brother's story? Just, just, just share with, with our listeners and viewers. Tell folks who your brother was and, and, and what happened to him.
- [10:31]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah. And thank you for going into some of that in your introduction because it's honestly the hardest part for me to talk about. I can go over stats and data about child sexual abuse and ways to prevent it all day long hard for me to talk about Trey. And I didn't know that you also lost a sibling. So I'm sorry for your loss and I'm sorry. We can relate on that.
- [10:53]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah, that's not, not a club anyone wants to be a member.
- [10:57]
Elizabeth Phillips
Exactly. But I think also we understand that you can grieve it and move on or you can grieve it and turn that pain into purpose. And I think what we saw at the press conference this morning was pain turned into power when There was a 19 year old young woman who came forward, named her abuser for the first time because her voice was protected under Trey's law since that was passed and put into effect in Missouri last August. And so that's what we're wanting to expand nationally. This journey for me began because my brother died by suicide when he was 28. Not only due to the child sexual abuse and what we now believe to be trafficking at the hand of Kennicutt camps based in southwest Missouri. They had international miss mission trips. They were moving kids across state lines. It was never fully investigated. The criminal case landed in Taney county, Missouri, in the sheriff's department. And at the time of my brother's perpetrator sentencing, there were 57 known victims. But we now have had many victims come forward since I started a website called factsaboutcanacook.com with other Survivor families to get the facts out there to parents and warn the public that this is much more widespread than what had been reported upon. Massive cover up, which is not unusual in a lot of these situations because of NDAs.
- [12:17]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
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Elizabeth Phillips
So that's what we're addressing with Trey's law that's now been introduced to Congress. Very bipartisan, you said, you know, no one you've brought this to has said no to it. Yeah, I mean, it's something everyone should get behind and hopefully can get behind. You know, in Trey's story, he was groomed and then abused by a camp director. So seven to 17, this was going on.
- [12:39]
Senator Ted Cruz
And so he was seven when he started going to the camp.
- [12:41]
Elizabeth Phillips
When he started going to the camp. And that's when the grooming began and then the sexual abuse began. And then his perpetrator, who like you said, is now in prison for three life terms, confessed to his crimes and was sentenced in 2010. But under the civil statute of limitations in Texas, Trey was forced to file his civil lawsuit by the age of 23. And just imagine, you know, go back to when you were 23.
- [13:07]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
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Elizabeth Phillips
Were you ready to go up against a system and quote, unquote, ministry like Kanakuk that has between 35 and 45 million in annual revenue? I mean, at 23, you're still a kid. We call them college kids. Right. You're just trying to get through college and start a job, build a life. And if someone puts a settlement agreement in front of you and says sign on the dotted line and this can all go away and you can have restitution and some, you know, some money for your healing, for therapy or for lost income, you're probably going to do it. And for closure and for healing and closure. Thank you.
- [13:46]
Podcast Co-Host
I say that because I have friends that worked at Kennecock during the time period you're talking about. I also know people that were abused at Kanacook. And this story, when I saw we were doing it, it's. I've lost friends who've committed suicide because of sexual abuse. But Canicuk is a place where I went to Ole Miss. A lot of people I grew up with from Memphis, from Houston, they went to Kanakuk. And the COVID up word that you use there is. I think one of the most sad parts about all this is there was so many of these NDAs, Senator. I didn't realize it, like, how much this was going to just bring up in me. But when you know people that were abused there and you've sat with them and you hear how the system did not protect them, but I actually think made them a victim a second time over, by the way that they use these NDAs, it is infuriating because you realize that, like, everything in this situation worked against them for years.
- [14:42]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah. And that's what came in the Texas hearings. I was calling this institutional abuse on top of child sexual abuse. So you're exactly right. And yes, Memphis is a huge market for Canicuk and kids across America, which is another ministry in outside of Branson that Joe White still runs to this day. There's been no change in leadership. No one's been held accountable because of these crimes. And so you were asking about my story and how we got to this point, and really it was because I learned more about my brother's trauma and his death than I knew in his life because of the NDA. So until Trey's Law went into effect in Texas, September of 2025, I never saw what he signed. He wouldn't talk about it. He was so terrified. Even in therapeutic settings, even trying to get sober in aa, for example, he was worried Kanakuk would come after him if he mentioned all of the people involved that knew about what Pete was doing and didn't report the crimes to the authorities or disciplined him internally. And that allowed this perpetrator to go on and abuse what we now know as hundreds of more victims. And that's one perpetrator alone. So victims of Canada have asked for three things. Admit to known failures, release NDAs, and commission an independent investigation since, as I mentioned, the Taney County Sheriff's Department missed a few spots. We don't need to rabbit hole on that right now. But that's the three asks of survivors. Very common. Sense steps they could take. So we've done Kanakuk's job for them and we've found out that they're. We now know of over 90 perpetrators with allegations against them affiliated with Canacuk and its associated ministries and programs across the country and world.
- [16:28]
Podcast Co-Host
90?
- [16:29]
Elizabeth Phillips
Over 90.
- [16:31]
Podcast Co-Host
So the 90, how many have been held accountable? I've got to know that number because as I was told about this several months ago, they said the, the not only are there still people in the 90 as you're describing that are affiliated, there are some that are still in major leadership roles and around children. Yes.
- [16:49]
Elizabeth Phillips
So we're calling it out again, doing Kanakuk's job for them. I think as parents we have an expectation that if a child molester or sex offender is caught at an institution where your child was attending or enrolled that you will be informed if they are ever charged with anything criminal. That is not what Kanakuk has done. So we've done that job for them. So facts about kanakuk.com we have a known abusers page where we name 13. It might even be more now that have convictions that are. Yeah, they have criminal indictments, convictions or formal allegations in the media cooperated by multiple victims. And then the rest of the perpetrators in our database are just still out there living their lives. And a lot of them have never been held accountable. We know who they are. We've turned that database over to the authorities and we are hoping that the FBI or some sort of law enforcement agency takes action. But the normal thing to do when you're not covering up for pedophiles as an institution, using NDAs and continuing to promote pedophiles within your organization, are moving them around to associated ministries which is another thing Canicuk has done. They have a year round ministry called K Life similar to Young Life which I think is better known. They will move someone that has allegations at the camp to a chapter of K Life where they go on to continue harming children. So our known abusers page is supposed to be a public facing database for when we know Kanakuk affiliate has been convicted, indicted or formally allegedly of child sexual abuse. And the rest of it will come to light over time as more and more victims come forward. The list continues to grow and with exposure like this we expect even more.
- [18:38]
Ben Ferguson
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- [20:16]
Senator Ted Cruz
So one of the things you described, we did a press conference today announcing Trey's law in the Senate and you described the pressure that was on your brother, not just from the camp, but also from his own lawyer. Share that story a little bit.
- [20:33]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah. So, you know, one of the questions as we were going state by state, you know, starting in Texas, because that's my home state and that's where Trey grew up, we spent a few years also in Atlanta, Georgia, Georgia's introduced Trey's law along with eight other jurisdictions. But then Missouri passed Trey's law last August. And you know, my brother was abused so in so many jurisdictions that there were different options for the venue. In his civil case, he's in Texas, as I mentioned, that ended with a settlement agreement that involved a restrictive NDA. And he was an adult when he sued for the child sexual abuse that he suffered. But he hadn't.
- [21:11]
Senator Ted Cruz
He was afraid even to talk to his therapist.
- [21:13]
Elizabeth Phillips
Exactly. And you know that therapist, after his death, I started doing my own investigation to understand what just happened to my brother. And that therapist said that he had made a comment just before he died that they would always control him and he would never be free. And that's what it feels like living under an NDA. And in America, where we stand on freedom and freedom of speech and anyone who studied constitutional law I mean, that is a right as an American citizen to have freedom of speech, and we protect it with veracity. But in this case, there's been a misuse of NDAs, which originally were created to protect intellectual property like the Coca Cola recipe or trade secrets, and they've since been misused to silence victims of childhood sexual abuse, trafficking, even adult sexual assault survivors. That was addressed in the Speak out act that passed in 2022 with the CO sponsor of Trey's Law, Senator Gillibrand. But kids are being put under these NDAs, and kids should. They can't consent to contracts or clauses like this. And so all oftentimes it's a guardian or a parent who is signing this NDA on behalf of their child. The child grows up, becomes a young man or woman, realizes what their parents signed and that they can't own their own story. And. And it's just.
- [22:43]
Podcast Co-Host
Or even feel like they can't heal because they can't talk about it, because they're so afraid. Talking to one person that was a victim of this. They described it to me this way. They said Kennecock basically had enough money to buy Silence to protect the brand because they knew if we were told our stories, the brand would die and all the money would stop coming in. That's a simplistic way. But you mentioned their revenue. This was. You got to spend money to save this brand and continue to grow in sports and all the other activities that they. That they do. I mean, that. Is that a fair way of putting it?
- [23:19]
Elizabeth Phillips
I think that's. Yeah, that's definitely a fair way of putting it. And to add the other thing that's a. A layer of trauma in this is that their cover up bought enough time for these victims to be out of statute. So they can't now that they know the extent of the COVID up, unless under a certain discovery rule, which you could speak to as a lawyer, Senator. But they can't even have access to the civil courts in the jurisdiction where they were abused. So in Missouri, the civil statute of limitations to sue an institution that's liable for child sexual abuse or trafficking has been the age of 26. And that's been unchanged since 1939. And so we're doing a lot of advocacy work in Missouri to say survivors need more time. As I said, when you asked the first question, there is a lot of research on delayed disclosure. My brother was unfortunately forced into disclosure because he was named as a victim during the criminal proceedings, and so he didn't have decades to process what happened. To him and then come forward. But victims that weren't named or who came forward closer to the time of Pete Newman's arrest, to name one of again, over 90 perpetrators we're aware of to date.
- [24:31]
Senator Ted Cruz
How was he caught? How was his. His abuse discovered?
- [24:35]
Elizabeth Phillips
There are a few theories on that. Keanukuk hasn't really been transparent about what led to his confession. So I would love to know the answer to that question. And that's why an independent investigation or some sort of law enforcement agency stepping in is so necessary. Siri, in this, he confessed allegedly in March 2009 to abusing seven boys. And then he wasn't arrested until September 2009 after summer camp season went uninterrupted. And then upon arrest, they started investigating him criminally. And then that led to his sentencing in February 2010. Here we are in 2026. And because of facts about Canacuk, which was created by coalition of Survivor families, and then recent publicity through USA Today published five articles on this. The Dispatch, the Dispatch published it, the New York Times. I just went on the Sean Ryan show, and we're getting more and more disclosures, not just about Pete Newman, but other perpetrators associated with Kanakuk and other leadership who covered this up. And they are calling attorneys who are saying, I'm sorry, you're 15, 30, 45 years too late. So victims don't know they're on the clock when. Perpetrators know exactly when. And institutions like Canacuk know exactly when the deadline is to file a civil lawsuit against them. So they bought enough time at this point for the COVID up to have worked.
- [26:02]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, one of the things you talked about at the press conference today is how your brother's lawyer was pressuring him to sign this NDA and the incentives of the current system. Look, an abuser has every incentive in the world to try to cover it up, to try to hide it, to want an NDA to not have truth and transparency. And so we are seeing NDAs demanded by abuse users in exchange for compensation. And the way our legal system works is typically if a victim has a lawyer, that lawyer will usually be compensated on a contingency basis where they receive a portion of whatever financial recovery there is. So the lawyer has every incentive in the world to try to reach a deal, to try to reach a settlement, to have a financial amount paid, and to discount the harm of silencing their client. And so it's one of the real values of Trey's Law is that when this passes, and I didn't say if, I said when we will get this passed.
- [27:17]
Elizabeth Phillips
Thank you.
- [27:18]
Senator Ted Cruz
When this passes, that incentive will go away. Look, if you're negotiating a settlement. I used an example earlier today. There aren't settlement agreements that say as a condition of the settlement, you have to deal crack cocaine because dealing crack cocaine is illegal. And so you can't agree in a settlement to do something that is illegal by taking NDAs off the table for forcing victims of child sex abuse to not be able to disclose what happened to them. That incentive for their lawyers to pressure them to do this will go away. Likewise, and. And importantly, we drafted Trey's law so that a victim can still insist on an NDA for the abuser. If a victim decides, I don't want my story told, that that's your right as well. We're not going to force a victim to tell his story or her story against their will.
- [28:13]
Podcast Co-Host
That you're protecting the victim in the way you're writing this, which I think is such an important, important part of this conversation. I want people to understand that it's a lot of what we talked about with we want to protect victims. For example, when we're exposing everything with Epstein files, it's the same mentality here. If you don't want your name out there, we want to protect it. Right.
- [28:30]
Elizabeth Phillips
That's the heart of Trey's Law, is giving survivors ownership of their own stories.
- [28:34]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yes.
- [28:35]
Elizabeth Phillips
So that they can decide what they want told about what happened to them. The trauma alone is enough abuse. We don't need to pile that on. And you bring up a good point, senator, around the incentives and the incentives being misaligned, because this type of case falls under personal injury law. And so you've been to law school, and in that area of the law, it's typically your attorneys who are taking auto accident cases or slip and falls. Child sexual abuse is a fair. It's an. I like that. It's a personal injury claim because it is an injury to the brain, to the soul. And so it should be a personal injury claim. But the way personal injury law works is that you are looking to settle, keep this from going. I mean, over 96% of cases, I think, settle outside of trial when it comes to personal injury. And so, you know, the victim doesn't want to have to go to trial and put themselves through more trauma. They are incentivized to settle. And a lawyer says, this can all be behind you if you sign on the dotted line. And then they can take 40%, which is the typical commission on a case like this. Move on to the next, rinse and repeat. And that doesn't work when we're talking about childhood sexual abuse.
- [29:48]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, and the U.S. supreme Court has described, they've said, other than murder, rape is the most grievous harm that could be inflicted to a person. And, and I've spent a lot of my career fighting against child sexual abuse. So when I was the Solicitor General of Texas, I argued in front of the U.S. supreme Court defending Louisiana's law that provided for capital punishment, the death penalty for the most egregious child rapist. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court 54 struck that down. So we did not prevail in that case. Texas's law was also struck down when Louisiana's law was struck down. I also defended Texas has a Texas sexually violent predator civil commitment law that gives the courts the ability to take a sexually violent predator and put them in civil commitment, take them off the streets to protect people. And a state court of appeals had struck that law down and concluded it was unconstitutional. And I argued the case in front of the Texas Supreme Court defending that law, and we won unanimously. The law was reinstated and it's now a tool that you have to go after sexual predators. And you know, we mentioned before. So this bill, my lead co sponsor is Kirsten Gillibrand, Democrat from New York. And then we have on this bill as well, we have Katie Britt, Republican from Alabama, is a dear friend. We have Eric Schmidt, Republican from Missouri, another very good friend. And then we also have Amy Klobuchar, Democrat from Minnesota. We have Peter Welch, Democrat from Vermont, and then Gene Shaheen, a Democrat from New Hampshire. And I think we will get very widespread bipartisan support. To be honest, those six are the only six I asked. I started with them, all of them I've worked with on previous legislation. But you know, I'll tell you, Gelibrind and I started working on this issue more than a decade ago because she was a leader in going after sexual assault in the military. And there's been a real problem with sexual assault in the military. And the way it used to work is the decision about whether to prosecute a rapist was made by the commander. And the commander frequently knew the violator often was close to the violator. And victims of sexual assault in the military were afraid to report the rapes because they didn't believe the commander would be fair. They believed the commander would be biased in favor of the violator. And so Gillibrand, and this is back 2013, when I was a brand new baby senator, had just been Elected. Kirsten was leading the charge saying this doesn't make any sense. And the decision of whether to prosecute should not be made by the commanding officer, but rather should be made by a career military prosecutor. So in the military, but not in the chain of command. So not, not connected to, to the alleged violator. And I will tell you, the Pentagon fought tooth and nail. They hated that provision. And, and I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee with Kirsten at the time and, and I heard her make the argument, make the argument passionately for changing the, the prosecution prosecuting decision to a career prosecutor. And it was one of those instances where sometimes you say hearings don't, you know, are kind of performance. They don't necessarily change anyone's mind. Well, I listened to her arguments and I was persuaded and I went up to her and I said, Kirsten, I want to team up with you and let's get this done. And we did. It took nearly a decade to get it done because the. Barack Obama wouldn't do it. By the way, Obama was president. He could have done it unilaterally and he wouldn't do it. And it took, we ultimately got the legislation passed, but it was, it was a decade long battle. This is one I'm confident will be faster. I don't think this will take a decade to make happen. You know, you mentioned at the press conference also that we had another victim of sexual abuse share her story. Her name is Jaden Harris and I want to play what she said at the, at the press conference because this, this was really powerful and, and moving. She was sharing about the sexual violence she experienced and give a listen, give a watch.
- [34:17]
Jaden Harris
Good morning. First, I want to thank these co sponsors for their leadership and in filing Trey's Law at the federal level. My name is jaden Harris. I'm 19 years old and I'm here today not just as a child sexual abuse survivor from Branson, Missouri, but as someone whose voice was protected by Trey's Law. It's why I can be here today. When I came forward about the abuse I experienced, I was prepared for it to be difficult. What I wasn't prepared for was the intimidation not only from my abuser, but from my own, from my own lawyer to sign a non disclosure agreement in exchange for restitution during a mediation process. I was alone when it came to fighting for my voice. It was both my abuser and my lawyer that tried to require me to sign an NDA, a contractual clause that would have restricted my ability to speak about the details of what happened to me for the rest of my life. Imagine being told, you can never tell your own truth. Despite the bullying from my attorney and all those involved in the case, in my heart I knew I had to stand for truth. Not just for myself, but for others who feel they have been silenced. I'm standing here today with my voice because Trey's law protected it as a matter of public policy. And I was able to achieve settlement while preserving my ability to speak out in hope of protecting others. Due to learning about Trey's Law in Missouri, I knew something important. I cannot be legally forced into silence. No agreement could take away my right to speak about my own experience and those responsible for the abuse. That legal right changed everything. It shifted the balance in power. It meant that any resolution would not come at the cost of me owning my story. Not only is having a voice essential to my healing journey, but is also how I can warn others. My abuser is still out in public every day. He goes by the name Raza. He is a well known entertainer in Branson who still has a magic show. And I'm concerned about ongoing victimization. The criminal justice system has done nothing to remove him from being around children. So I'm going to do something. I'm speaking out today and I'm advocating the law that protected me. To protect victims everywhere, federal action on Trey's Law is critical. A survivor's freedom of speech should not depend on geography. I am fortunate that Trey's law had passed in Missouri and allowed me to keep my voice. But someone's zip code should not determine whether they can tell the truth or and warn the public about predators. This needs to be national. Trey's law is straightforward but powerful. It makes non disclosure agreements in cases of child sexual abuse void and unenforceable. It ensures that secrecy cannot be purchased when a child has been harmed. It affirms that survivors can be seen, heard and believed. And that's in the best interest of public safety. What almost happened to me signing away my voice should never be an option in this country. I am grateful to be part of today's important milestone and making that happen and setting truth free. Thank you.
- [38:09]
Ben Ferguson
Senator.
- [38:09]
Podcast Co-Host
Watching that, it's. It's painful. It also is incredible to see someone like that get their voice because of this law and that was enacted in her state. And that's exactly what you and are trying to do nationwide. And it's why I say this for everyone watching. Please share this you There may be somebody that needs to know the website that with a connection with Canacuk, there may be someone else that needs to know this because they're in an NDA. This is why we do this show. And it's one of those episodes that I hope you'll put it everywhere on social media.
- [38:46]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, and, and look, there's something really powerful about a survivor taking ownership of their own story, of their own abuse and sharing their story. It can be healing, it can be empowering. Look, when, when Jaden told her story, there was not a dry eye in the room. I mean, it was. You just heard it. And for those of you watching, watching online, you saw it. And this is a 19 year old young woman who was baring her soul. And there's something powerful, a for the survivor to move past the pain and grief. But it's also powerful because for every survivor that tells her story or his story, there are dozens or hundreds or even thousands of other victims who never told anybody. And one of the horrific things about this crime in particular, listen, if you're walking home at night and you get mugged and beaten up, you're not typically embarrassed or ashamed to admit, I got mugged and beaten up. Someone stole my wallet. Sexual assault, and particularly sexual assault for kids. The guilt, the self loathing, the fear, the shame, the shame. So many victims are trapped in silence and never report their crimes. And so there is a power not just for the survivor, but, but for everyone else who's been a victim who, who has not been able to, to own their truth. And you know, I, I don't like language like that. Own their truth sounds a little New Agey for me. It's not the way I normally speak.
- [40:45]
Elizabeth Phillips
Right.
- [40:45]
Senator Ted Cruz
But survivors hold the truth and here it is. Right. It. I don't think someone has their truth on whether two plus two is for.
- [40:54]
Elizabeth Phillips
Right.
- [40:55]
Senator Ted Cruz
But, but your life and your experience. No one should take away, particularly from a child, the ability to tell your story. And, and, and it's, and I'll tell you, look, Trey's law would not have been a law in Missouri, Elizabeth, without your leadership. It would not have been a law in Texas. It would not have been a law. I mean, you have devoted a lot of time to fighting for this nationwide.
- [41:25]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah. And I hope to get back to my day job eventually. I'm a mother of three. I've got other things to do. This is not something I want to carry. It's always encouraging when legislators like yourself step up and say, we're going to champion this on behalf of survivors so that Trey's outcome doesn't happen again. And I just want to comment on Jaden and what she did today, because that was heroic. It will inspire others to come forward. And as she stated in her testimony, she just doesn't want other people to continue to be victimized by her abuser. Today was the first time she named her abuser.
- [42:06]
Senator Ted Cruz
Wow.
- [42:08]
Elizabeth Phillips
And I am so honored.
- [42:11]
Senator Ted Cruz
I didn't realize that. That when she said that, I. I assumed she had said it previously. I did not realize she had not.
- [42:16]
Elizabeth Phillips
That's when a press conference becomes holy, sacred space. Because she was sharing the truth about a predator who's still out there. And I am amazed by her courage because she achieved settlement last year and asked if she wanted this opportunity. Opportunity. It was healing for her. As hard as it was to be able to stand on truth, and that's one of our slogans with the Trey's Law campaign, is every voice of truth matters. Because I agree with you. I don't like this language around their truth. There is absolute truth, and Jaden stood on that today in her remarks. And we got to stand beside her. And that was so powerful. And like you said, not a dry eye in the room. Because if you're not personally affected by child sexual abuse, you sure know someone who. Amen or is or will come forward eventually. About that.
- [43:16]
Senator Ted Cruz
The numbers are staggering.
- [43:17]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah. And we have studied this. Only one in seven victims will ever come forward. And the delay disclosure issue I was bringing up earlier, especially with male victims, they often don't disclose until between the age of 50 and 70. And so it's important parents understand that because again, I think they think if someone experiences this, that child's going to come home and tell mom and dad immediately. But to your point, it's not like, you know, an injury you would endure on the streets or in some sort of other accident. This does have an element of shame. And what Jaden did today is she put the shame back where it belongs.
- [43:57]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [43:58]
Elizabeth Phillips
On the person who abused her. It was never her fault.
- [44:02]
Senator Ted Cruz
And let me say to anyone listening to this, if. If you've been a victim, it's not your fault.
- [44:06]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah.
- [44:06]
Senator Ted Cruz
And that's one of the lies these abusers try to convince children that. That it is your fault. That you invited this, that. That the blame is with you. And that is a total and complete lie.
- [44:19]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah. And that's what grooming does. And what grooming is. Is. Is it creates secrecy. If you ever tell anyone, I'm going to hurt your loved one, or if you ever tell anyone, it's going to ruin everything that is A grooming tactic to keep the victim quiet. And they often don't come out of that brainwashing for many, many years. So that's why research shows all of this around delayed disclosure. Jaden, she was able to move from victimization to survivor and now survivor advocate in a matter of months. And that's what we got to witness today thanks to you introducing Trey's Law federally along with Senator Gillibrand and other co sponsors. And I thought Senator Britt had some really poignant remarks as well.
- [45:00]
Senator Ted Cruz
She was fantastic.
- [45:01]
Elizabeth Phillips
Oh and it was very clear that the group you mentioned earlier, the ones you've asked so far, they are behind survivors. They want to protect survivors voices and that's what Trey's Law will do. And it does need to be national because going state by state creates an imbalance, protects the people in power, the predators and the institutions that harbor these predators over a child having ownership of their story. And that's the core of our mission here. And thank you for taking time out of a not a slow news day to make this a priority to hear from people like Jaden and others who
- [45:38]
Senator Ted Cruz
spoke this is important to happen and to go to the, the, the really corrosive power of shame. Last year and we talked about this earlier today, a law that I authored and we passed into law was the Take It Down Act. And the Take, Take It down act makes it a crime to post non consensual intimate imagery either real pictures and you see so called revenge porn of explicit photographs or videos that occur. Couple breaks up and and one decides okay, I'm gonna hurt my, my former lover and, and, and public and no one has the right to make that public and to do that to someone else. But we've also seen with AI the rise of deep fakes and, and this problem has increased more than 3,000% in the last year and, and more than 90% of the victims are either women or teenage girls. And when we were pushing to pass it and building the coalition to pass it, one of the things we did, the first lady became very actively involved in this legislation and I appreciated she, I hosted the first lady on Capitol Hill and she was at a roundtable where she met with a number of the victims. And to give you a sense there was one person who testified who was a state legislator later in South Carolina whose son had received it was online and he was a teenager and he thought he was talking with a cute teenage girl and the supposed cute teenage girl was flirting with him and and teenage boys, everyone can make foolish decisions but teenage boy, boys in particular, this, this cute girl convinced him to take revealing and naked pictures of himself and to send those pictures. It turned out that the cute girl was not a cute girl, but rather was a predator. A predator, A foreign predator who then began blackmailing him and saying, I'm going to take this picture that you just took. You just took a naked picture of yourself and sent it to me. I'm going to send this picture to your family, I'm going to send it to your parents, I'm going to send it to your friends. I'm going to send it to everyone unless you give me money.
- [48:05]
Elizabeth Phillips
Sextortion.
- [48:06]
Senator Ted Cruz
And tragically, this teenage boy took his life. The entire exchange from the first interaction to when he took his own life was 90 minutes. And his father shared that story. But that's the power of shame of the, of this teenager who had taken a picture thinking he was flirting. And then the terror of if I get exposed for that. Which look, compared to being a victim of sexual assault, taking a picture of yourself is not nearly as severe. And yet the, that shame was so powerful that that teenage boy took his own life. I mean, this is the pressures on our kids. I, I, they're enormous and they face things that, that technology amplifies all of this.
- [48:57]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah, it's really an epidemic.
- [48:59]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [49:00]
Elizabeth Phillips
And as a mom of three, I know you have two girls. The threats are different than they were in our childhoods and very different. Very different. We were playing one in three kids, Mario.
- [49:12]
Senator Ted Cruz
One in three kids will be propositioned sexually online. Yeah, one in three.
- [49:16]
Elizabeth Phillips
And so again, thank you for championing the Take It down act and, and your co sponsors and the survivors and sadly the families victimized in that situation. The national center on Missing Exploited Children just put out a very powerful video on that issue in particular. And when I was the board chair of an anti trafficking organization, the FBI put out their notice on sextortion. We had something come through a case around girls being trafficked on Venmo. So it's sometimes, often these apps parents aren't even thinking about. But Roblox, especially atrocious. So many examples of abuse happening on Discord. And then what they do is they take it live. So in my brother's story, it was an institution that covered up abuse. Now it's these tech companies covering up abuse. And the bad actors are a step ahead of us. And the legislation can't continue to be reactive. What I think Trey's Law does is it removes that barrier because the shame is already inherent in the crime itself. And it removes that barrier so that victims come forward quicker, but we can catch the bad guys faster. And the truth comes to light a lot sooner than when the power imbalances in such a way that lawyers, even plaintiffs attorneys, as we've discussed, or others, are keeping that victim from speaking out. So NDAs are one barrier, but the shame is real and the gap in parental education is real. And that's why conversations like this really matter.
- [50:50]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yeah. Well, Elizabeth, thank you for taking your pain. I know you miss your brother. I know you feel the pain every day. But thank you for taking that and saying, I'm not just going to grieve. I'm not just going to weep. I'm going to use the pain to make a difference and help others. Because your courage matters. It has already changed the the law in a number of states across the country and it's going to change the law nationally. And your leadership is why this is happening. And so I just want to say thank you.
- [51:24]
Elizabeth Phillips
It's a sacred honor.
- [51:27]
Podcast Co-Host
Final question I want to bring up real quick. One, will you give the website one more time for people that may have been affected at Kanakuk, the place where your brother was? And two, Senator, so this doesn't drag on for a decade to get it passed, what can verdict listeners do do to help advocate for this and no matter who their senator is?
- [51:48]
Elizabeth Phillips
So the whistleblower website on kuk is factsaboutcanakuk.com and then our website for Tres Law is tres law.org There's a community page for survivors who want to tell their story in a safe way until we get this legislation passed and they don't feel safe coming out fully in their identity. We had a survivor testify in May, Missouri just a couple weeks ago. And he said, For 25 years I've been a John Doe and today I'm coming forward in my full name because of Trace passing in Texas. That's the power of Trey's Law in Texas. And you know, we heard about Missouri today at the press conference and just replay Jaden's remarks. So this needs to be national. The other way to support this effort is through the no More Victims alliance. And that website is NMVAlliance.org and we have a lot of advocates and allies who want to help support this. And Senator, I'm curious your thoughts as far as what are the most effective calls to action for people that want to jump in.
- [52:47]
Senator Ted Cruz
So let me say one thing. The press conference we had, we had probably about 50 people who came. It was Packed, many of whom were themselves victims or they were the families of victims. And the emotions, the tears in the room, it was. I actually think that the TV cameras did not pick up on the folks that were there that were supporting what we were doing. But it was really powerful. Look, what can you do? One thing I would encourage you to do, share this podcast, Send this podcast to your friends, send them the YouTube link, send them the audio link, encourage people to learn about Trey's Law and then pick up the phone and make a phone call, call your senator, call your House member and urge them past Trey's Law. Look, those phone calls, people wonder, do those phone calls matter? Do they make a difference? And I'll tell you, they do. I get a report every day, and I think this is true for most members of Congress. I get a report of how many calls we got and what the topic is, were what the people were urging. And you notice if there's a surge on a topic, it makes a difference and it focuses the mind. And so speaking out, urging your elected representatives to support this law as we've got broad bipartisan support, we're going to get this done. And also speak out. You know, speak out on social media, put up a post on Facebook, put up a post on X or True Social or Instagram or whatever platform you use, but speak out and advocate it. Because the more people hear about this, I think it is basic common sense. There is no reason a child lacks the emotional maturity to make a decision to bind themselves by an NDA. And trade's law is going to say, we're not going to allow children to be taken advantage of first when they're abused, but they're, they're taken advantage of a second time.
- [54:50]
Elizabeth Phillips
Yeah.
- [54:51]
Senator Ted Cruz
When. When they are pressured into signing an NDA and muzzled for the rest of their life. And, and look, we can't necessarily stop every instance of, of abuse of kids in the first instance, although obviously we want to. But every predator we take off the street stops that predator from victims, victimizing another child, another victim. But we can stop the second victimization. We can say we are not going to allow as a matter of law for children who have experienced this violence to be silenced. And that's what we're trying to do. And Elizabeth, that's what your leadership is producing.
- [55:31]
Elizabeth Phillips
Well, and that's why we call this a public safety bill. And, you know, nothing will bring my brother back. And thank you for acknowledging that. Like, this is happening out of heartbreak. And I see it as, you know, grief can be Love in action. So I'm taking action because of what my brother's life and death has taught me. So bigger picture, you know, encourage people to not let these hard earned lessons die in vain. We won't let this be in vain. And thank you for taking action with me. With all the survivors in the room today who flew in from across the country, they'd been advocating in Georgia and Alabama and Missouri and Texas and they showed up in that room and it was, yes, full of tears, but also full of hope.
- [56:17]
Senator Ted Cruz
Yes.
- [56:18]
Elizabeth Phillips
And there are some other bills right now that need support like the Renewed Hope act and the Defiance act, which is a compliment to the Take It Down Act. And so this Congress can achieve a lot to protect victims. And if, if people do call their elected legislators, then we can get this done. And I love hearing you say that over and over, that it's not an if, it's a win. Yes. And you know, with this kind of thing, there's never a win. It is a lose lose in my family's case. But we can, like you said, we can prevent this from happening. We can catch it sooner and this, this era can end.
- [56:57]
Podcast Co-Host
Amen.
- [56:58]
Ben Ferguson
Don't forget, we do this show three
- [56:59]
Podcast Co-Host
days a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I ask you if you get to see this, please share the video YouTube video on Facebook as well. You can share it on X and share this podcast. You can hit that little forward button and share it wherever you are on social media. Hopefully you can help others and victims come forward and understand what's happening in the laws and how they're changing. Also, be an advocate, talk to your senator and call their offices and let them know about this law. They may not know what's going on with it. Let them know why you're in favor of it, why they should get behind it so it doesn't take 10 years to get this passed. And the senator and I will see you back here in a couple of days.
- [57:36]
Ben Ferguson
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- [58:20]
Bobby Bones
7 hey, it's Bobby Bones. You know, Eddie and I recently stopped by YEAH in Nashville. It's an incredible nonprofit empowering kids through music education. Thanks to Hyundai, we recorded a special podcast episode while we were there.
- [58:34]
Senator Ted Cruz
How do you think learning an instrument helps kids with confidence?
- [58:38]
Music Educator
Learning an instrument allows them to discover a little bit further of who they are and be comfortable with it and then share a little bit about that with others. And if it's done in an environment that is celebrating and championing them, then that confidence can only go up.
- [58:55]
Bobby Bones
The full episode is out now. Presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 9. To donate and learn more about yeah's mission, just visit yahrocks.org
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- [60:04]
Bobby Bones
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