Venezuela Victory part 2-Historically Transforming Latin America & What Happens Next

Summary

Verdict with Ted Cruz — "Venezuela Victory part 2: Historically Transforming Latin America & What Happens Next"

Release Date: January 7, 2026
Hosts: Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson

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Episode Overview

This episode is the second part of a deep dive into the historic developments in Venezuela following the capture and arrest of Nicolás Maduro and his wife. Senator Ted Cruz and co-host Ben Ferguson address lingering questions about the operation, examine broader geopolitical implications for Latin America and the Western Hemisphere, and discuss what comes next for Venezuela—including who should lead the nation and what the US ought to support.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Was Maduro’s Wife Arrested? (04:25–10:22)

• Background of Celia Flores (Maduro's Wife):
  • Flores is not a mere figurehead or "housewife," but a powerful player in Venezuela's corrupt regime.
  • She’s a lawyer, a long-time Chavez loyalist and enabler, known as the "Latin Lady Macbeth" and "First Warrior."
  • Substantially involved in narco-trafficking and sanctioned by the US Treasury for corruption and trafficking.
  • Her nephews ("narco nephews") were previously arrested in the US for drug trafficking to fund her campaign.
  • Flores played a crucial role not only in supporting Hugo Chavez but also in building Maduro’s criminal apparatus.
  • Notable quote:
    Ted Cruz [05:47]: "She is a fundamental figure in corruption in Venezuela, absolutely fundamental, and especially in the structure of power. Many people consider her far more astute and shrewd than Maduro himself."
• Media Reaction:
  • The mainstream media’s portrayal of Flores as an “innocent old lady” is misleading—the hosts stress her deep involvement in criminal activities.
  • Ted Cruz [10:07]: "You know, sweet little old lady Attorney General, narco terrorist, drug trafficker. But other than that, she's a sweet little old lady."
• Importance of Her Arrest:
  • The arrest isn’t arbitrary—it targets a central architect of regime corruption and narco-terror.

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2. The Western Hemisphere & National Security (11:24–25:43)

• Western Hemisphere Defined:
  • Encompasses North and South America and the Caribbean; it's "our half of the world."
  • The Monroe Doctrine established the US’s protective stance towards the region; Trump’s approach now dubbed the "Donroe Doctrine."
• Historical Context:
  • Cruz recounts a story about legal precedent (the Noriega arrest in Panama) and how negotiations for voluntary exile have repeatedly failed with dictators.
  • Both Noriega and Maduro refused exile, leading to forceful removal.
  • Notable quote:
    Cruz [16:17]: "That took cast iron balls to issue that order, because frankly, it could have gone wrong a thousand different ways."
• Operation Details:
  • The military executed a high-precision raid without US casualties (except two non-fatal injuries), despite heavy Cuban guard presence.
  • Delta Force physically shielded Maduro and Flores during the firefight, aiming to bring them back for trial, not to execute.
• Broader Implications:
  • Regime change in Venezuela shakes the foundation of neighboring dictatorships.
  • The fall of “invincible” figures weakens remaining communist regimes—the Cuban and Nicaraguan governments face increased instability.
  • The importance of projecting strength:
    Cruz [22:50]: "Dictatorships depend upon the perception of strength, the perception of invulnerability... The fact that Maduro was captured has weakened the communist regime there. But the communist regime in Cuba, the fact that their soldiers were just obliterated, just like it weakens Iran, it weakens Cuba as well."
  • Opportunity for "more freedom-loving and America-loving leaders" to emerge in Latin America.

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3. Mexico’s Position & Implications for Anti-Narco Policy (25:43–33:31)

• Mexico—A Unique Case:
  • Not a failed state; President Sheinbaum is a leftist but not parallel to Maduro.
  • US–Mexico interdependence through trade and water treaties; recent victories on enforcement under Trump with direct negotiation.
• Narco-Traffic & National Security:
  • The arrest in Venezuela sends a message; the US expects cooperation to tackle narco-traffickers in Mexico or will act unilaterally.
  • Importance of US resolve and operational excellence compared to previous administrations (e.g., Carter-era debacle).
    Cruz [33:10]: "You don't have a bunch of lawyers DEI-ing it anymore like they were before. You don't have a bunch of dudes acting like chicks that are trying to get in the armed forces."
• Broader Strategy:
  • The world is "better off with a strong commander in chief."
  • The contrast between Biden's "weakness" and Trump's "decisiveness" is a recurring argument.

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4. What’s Next for Venezuela? (33:31–43:41)

• No "Forever War":
  • The operation was an "arrest," not an invasion—no US occupation or long-term military presence is anticipated.
  • Cruz [34:43]: "This is not a forever war. It's not even a war. This was a military operation to execute an arrest warrant... It took a couple of hours and was over."
• Current Leadership:
  • Delsey Rodriguez—former VP, now interim President—is a staunch Marxist and anti-American.
  • Family ties and a history rooted in Marxist guerrilla violence color her leadership.
  • Incriminating details: sanctioned for corruption, implicated in illegal gold transport, tight family control (sworn in by her brother).
  • She’s cooperating for now—possibly motivated by Delta Force’s show of force—but remains untrustworthy.
• US Priorities:
  • Hosting free and fair elections, not perpetuating another anti-American regime.
  • The ultimate goal: regime change at the ballot box under democratic legitimacy.
  • The overwhelming economic potential of Venezuela’s natural resources—oil and gold—positions it for rapid recovery if a stable, pro-market government takes charge.
  • Cruz [42:27]: "It's why having free and fair elections and a stable government that is friends of the United States, that is not communist, is critical to the success not just of Venezuela, but to the success of America's relationship with Venezuela."
• Hopes for the Future:
  • American investment is conditioned on the rule of law and secure property rights.
  • A Venezuela freed of communism can recover to former prosperity and strengthen US–Latin American ties.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the gravity of the Venezuela raid’s success:
  Cruz [16:17]:
  "That took cast iron balls to issue that order, because frankly, it could have gone wrong a thousand different ways."

• On Delta Force’s courage:
  Cruz [17:10]:
  "You want to talk about the bravery of Delta Force, literally putting their bodies with body armor in front of Maduro and the first lady so that they didn't get shot by the Cubans. That's extraordinary."

• On Flores’ criminal mastermind role:
  Ferguson [07:44]:
  "They're like, if you think this is just some first lady, in essence, a housewife. You are mistaken. She is ruthless to the core, as they described it, saying that she was a businesswoman that the mob would even be afraid of."

• On the media’s treatment of Flores:
  Cruz [10:07]:
  "Sweet little old lady Attorney General, narco terrorist, drug trafficker. But other than that, she's a sweet little old lady."

• On US foreign policy under Trump:
  Cruz [34:43]:
  "This is not a forever war. ... It was about a two hour war. And I wouldn't even call it a war. It was ... an arrest with the military supporting..."

• On the vital need for regime change through democracy:
  Cruz [42:27]:
  "I very much hope will be regime change at the ballot box, which is a very different thing. That it will be the voters, that there will be free and fair elections, and the voters will choose."

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 04:25–10:22: Deep dive into Celia Flores' background and the necessity of her arrest
• 11:24–16:42: Explanation of "Western Hemisphere," historical parallels, and legal justifications
• 16:42–18:52: Details on the military raid in Venezuela, and conversation with Trump on the operation's significance
• 20:23–25:43: The impact on Cuba, ripple effects for other regimes
• 25:43–33:31: Mexico's role, narco-trafficking, and US leverage via water treaties
• 33:31–43:41: Fears of “forever wars,” interim government under Delsey Rodriguez, and the path toward free and fair elections
• Notable exchanges: Courage and risks of military action, mockery of media coverage, and emphasis on regime change by democratic means

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Tone & Style

• The tone is intensely partisan, urgent, and often combative—a hallmark of Cruz and Ferguson’s style.
• Frequent use of humor and sarcasm to critique both political opponents and media portrayals.
• Conversations display both a sense of historical gravity and gusto in framing recent US actions as bold, corrective, and consequential.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode analyzes the aftermath of the US-led operation in Venezuela, highlighting the legal, moral, and strategic cases for arresting both Maduro and his wife. The hosts argue the operation is a turning point for Latin America—weakening authoritarian regimes, sending a warning to others, and opening the door for genuine democratic transformation. They stress the importance of fair elections and a rapid transition to prosperity, with the US keeping a keen watch but avoiding long-term entanglement.

Listeners are left with a detailed understanding of why the operation matters—and why, in the hosts’ view, strong leadership and moral clarity are essential for securing American interests and aiding Latin American liberty.

Transcript

[Ted Cruz]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.

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[Ben Ferguson]

Welcome. It is verdict with center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. It is nice to have you with us as we are doing part two of our in depth conversation on Venezuela. What has happened since Maduro has left? What is next? And center, we've got three different things we're going to talk about and if people missed episode one, it's one that really went viral. So make sure you go back and listen to it. But we're going to go in depth again if you in this episode on three major different aspects of this story.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, listen, episode one, which came out Monday, we did a deep dive into number one, what happened, what happened in Venezuela, what what President Trump did, sending in the military to capture and arrest Nicolas Maduro and his wife. We secondly discussed why Venezuela matters, what are the geopolitical consequences of Venezuela, the massive oil reserves, the massive gold reserves and other minerals. We talked about why Russia and China and Iran and Hezbollah were all in Venezuela. And finally, we did a very careful explanation of the legal basis, the legal authority for why President Trump had the authority to order this attack, to order this arrest. We laid it out in detail. We're seeing a lot of Democrats and the media and law professors, all of which are coming from exactly the same place, claiming this is illegal, this was a kidnapping. All of that is nonsense. And if you didn't listen to Monday's podcast, you should go back and I lay out the legal basis and in fact, the opinion from the U.S. department of justice for the January 3, 1990 arrest of Manuel Noriega in Panama under very similar circumstances. And so those are three big questions we addressed today. We're going to address three additional questions. Number one, a lot of folks are asking who is the first lady of Venezuela and why? Why was she arrested? Why was she included in that? We're going to lay out some more detail as to what her background is. Secondly, we'll talk about what are the geopolitical consequences of Maduro being arrested, being prosecuted for the rest of Latin America and for the Western Hemisphere, they are significant. We're going to break them down carefully and systematically. And finally, and this is important, we're going to talk about what's next in Venezuela, what we can expect in the days and weeks and months ahead. What does this mean? What's the leadership going to be in Venezuela and what should the United States want to happen next in Venezuela? All of that on today's pod.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, it's really going to be a fun one. Want to also talk to you real quick about our friends at Compassion International.

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[Ben Ferguson]

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[Ben Ferguson]

All right, so, Senator, we're going to pick it up literally where we left off in Monday's pod. And there have been so many questions about the wife of Maduro. Why was she arrested? Why was she charged? Why was she brought to America? I had to watch some of the crazy liberals and debate them on tv. They're angry that she was arrested instead of others around Maduro, that they would have rather have had arrested. It was the argument that was being made which just made my head explode as I was listening to the incompetence. But let's go through why she was actually indicted, why she's being held, why she's arrested, why she's probably gonna be found guilty of a lot of major crimes.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, look, look, she has been indicted. She has been charged and she's being prosecuted. And yes, she is Maduro's wife. She a lawyer. She's a longtime Hugo Chavez loyalist. She's a communist. She's a Marxist. She is viciously anti American. She is corrupt. She was intimately involved in the narco trafficking that Maduro was engaged in. She has been sanctioned by the Treasury Department for her involvement in that. And she's also been a senior government official. And in fact, here I'm going to give you some of the background the New York Post reported. So Celia Flores was arrested. Celia Flores is the first Lady. She has been called the Latin Lady Macbeth. She's 69 years old and she's been described by a former head of intelligence in Venezuela as being, quote, behind the curtain, pulling the strings. And here's what one prosecutor in the Maduro government said, quote, she is a fundamental figure in corruption in Venezuela, absolutely fundamental, and especially in the structure of power. And he continued, many people consider her far more astute and shrewd than Maduro himself. Now, what is her background? Her background, she was a lawyer for Hugo Chavez, the original Marxist who took over Venezuela, was elected and drove the economy into the ground. She has been nicknamed, in addition to Latin Lady Macbeth. She's been nicknamed First Warrior. And she's accused of accepting massive bribes from drug dealers. And in fact, her nephews, and in fact they've been called her narco nephews were both previously arrested in the United States for cocaine trafficking and they plan to use the money from their drug sales. This is the narco nephews to fund Flores's 2015 campaign for national assembly in Venezuela. Yep. She is, she is a political leader. She, she is alleged to have participated in the trafficking of cocaine, quote, much of which had been seized by Venezuelan law enforcement with the assistance of armed military escorts. That's according to the indictment, while guarded by, quote, state sponsored gangs known as collectivos. And the gangs, according to the indictment, were to, quote, protect their drug trafficking operation.

[Ben Ferguson]

By the way, 10 years ago. It had to be at least 10 years ago. Now, I went back to a conversation I had in New York City in the green room at Fox. There was a Venezuelan dissident basically, that had been put into exile. And we were sitting talking about the oil and the narco terrorism. This was over a decade ago from him. And they described the wife to me as, quote, not a housewife, but a brilliant mastermind. They said that Chavez would have never gotten to where he was without her being behind him. That she was able to really. And as you mentioned, a lawyer. They said, she's very smart, she understands how to set this stuff up. She understands how to work it to the family's advantage and to make money. And the idea, they were laughing basically, as they were describing. They're like, if you think this is just some first lady, in essence, a housewife. You are mistaken. She is ruthless to the core, as they described it, saying that she was a businesswoman that the mob would even be afraid of.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I mentioned Flores got her start with Hugo Chavez. Actually, Hugo Chavez was arrested in the wake of a failed coup attempt in 1992, and Flores stepped forward as his lawyer. And in fact, she was such a socialist and such a Marxist, she was literally spray painting Chavez's names on walls around Caracas. And she stepped forward. She represented Hugo Chavez pro bono for free, and she ended up getting him out of jail in 1994 before he ever stood trial. She met Maduro while being an activist for Chavez, and Chavez was elected president in 1998. And Maduro and Flores both served under Chavez. She was Attorney General.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yep.

[Ted Cruz]

And he was Vice president. And this, you know, she is someone intimately involved in the corruption in the drug trafficking. And that's why she's been arrested, it's why she is indicted, and it's why I believe both she and her husband will be convicted.

[Ben Ferguson]

It really is interesting to see how the media has just gone to, like, compassion on this, where they're just like.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, you know, she's just a sweet little old lady, you know, why are you picking on this sweet little old lady?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

And, you know, sweet little old lady Attorney general, You know, sweet little old lady attorney general, narco terrorist, drug trafficker. But other than that, she's a sweet little old lady.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. This is why I, by the way, love doing this show, because no one else is talking about this. And I hope people that listen, they're like, okay, well, now we know. So you can correct the record and be like, well, it's just, they, it was just an easy one for them to grab, so they grabbed her. No, this is a woman who literally helped set up all of this corruption and was heavily involved in it. Which brings me to the big issue. And we've seen a lot of conversation about this as well by the talking heads, members of Congress that you serve with. And the word that I wrote down was Western Hemisphere. There has been a, a fever pitch of Western Hemisphere and how Venezuela fits into this and what happens if China or Russia or Iran, Cuba gets involved X, Y and Z in Venezuela. Can we just take a half a step back, explain politically what the meaning of Western Hemisphere means for people that maybe don't understand why it's so important and how it relates to national security with the United States of America as a broader point, before we go into then why so many other countries want to be involved in Venezuela.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, look, the Western Hemisphere is just North America and South America. It's our half of the world. It's the. And also the Caribbean Islands. But it's essentially the land that has the Atlantic Ocean on the east and the Pacific Ocean on the west. And the Western Hemisphere is distinct from the Eastern Hemisphere, which is Europe and Asia and Africa and Australia. All of that's in the Eastern Hemisphere. But the Western Hemisphere, you know, going back to the very earliest days of America, where the Monroe Doctrine laid out that we are going to protect the Western Hemisphere. This is our hemisphere. And we talked about in Monday's podcast how Donald Trump believes very much in the Monroe Doctrine. So much so that it's now being widely referred to as the Donroe Doctrine because he's put his own stamp on it. And I'll give a couple of stories to give some context because I think this is massively consequential for other countries in the Western Hemisphere and for US national security. I mentioned on Monday's pod that the Office of Legal Counsel is who prepared the legal memorandum that laying out the basis for arresting Noriega in Panama. And I mentioned that Bill Barr was the head of the Office of Legal Counsel who wrote that memo. But I also mentioned that there had been lots of very respected lawyers who had headed olc, including Antonin Scalia, including William Rehnquist. And I mentioned Chuck Cooper, who was my very first boss when I came from clerking for Chief Justice Rehnquist. And I was a 27 year old lawyer, my first boss was Chuck Cooper. He's one of the top Supreme Court litigators in the country. And as it so happened, we recorded Monday's pod Sunday evening. And then we finished recording the pod and I went to have dinner with Chuck. So I literally went to Chuck's house as soon as we finished recording. And he told me a story I didn't know, which is during the Reagan administration, Chuck, as a young 30something lawyer, was the one that Reagan sent down to Panama to negotiate with Noriega.

[Ben Ferguson]

No way.

[Ted Cruz]

And so he went down there and he was sort of laughing. He was like, I was the only one kind of foolish enough to accept the assignment. And he went down and he said, you know, Noriega came and arrived in like a caravan of big armored cars and he had all sorts of soldiers with automatic weapons. And, you know, Chuck sitting there as this, you know, young lawyer from doj, and they were trying to negotiate. Noriega's leaving voluntarily. And he was gonna leave voluntarily and go to a third country, and he could live in exile and live in peace. And by the way, Trump tried to do the same thing, which is negotiate with Maduro. If you want to leave in peace, we'll let you leave in peace. And Noriega, just. Noriega and Maduro both made the same stupid mistake. They said, no, I'm not gonna leave. And Chuck told me, he said he was negotiating, and Noriega was like, absolutely not. I'm not going anywhere. That will never happen. And Chuck told me he finished the meeting at the end of the meeting, and he said, Mr. President, I need to tell you something, which is, I'm going to leave now. I'm going to go back to the United States, but people are going to come after me, and they're not going to take no for an answer. And he did that.

[Ben Ferguson]

By the way, isn't it amazing that Chavez. This happened to him. Maduro saw it. Maduro's wife saw it, and they saw it.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, not Chavez. Noriega.

[Ben Ferguson]

Sorry. Yeah, Noriega.

[Ted Cruz]

It's hard to keep these Latin American dictators straight.

[Ben Ferguson]

Exactly. But you see it. It's like you would think they would look at the history like, okay, we know how this ends. Like, we understand how this ends. And yet. And it's there. Like, they can see it. It's tangible. They can see the fallout afterwards. They can see how it went down. And then when Donald Trump calls you and is like, hey, man, like, we'll let you leave. Like, we're literally letting you leave if you'll just leave, he's like, nope, never leaving. You can. And then he goes out on stage, you can come and get me, you coward. Well, okay, we did it.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah. No, he was literally chanting and screaming at Trump, calling him a coward in Spanish, govarde. And, well, it turned out he said, come and get me. And Trump said, okay. And he did. And that. Look, in terms of Latin America, I'll tell you, also yesterday I spoke with President Trump in the Oval and we talked about a lot of topics. But I told him, I said, listen, congratulations on the Venezuela attack, on the arrest. I said, Mr. President, candidly, that that took cast iron balls to issue that order, because frankly, it could have gone wrong a thousand different ways.

[Ben Ferguson]

There's also part of it when you make those orders that I think people don't realize. You've been around it, and I've been around it. You are making a decision that very well could cost an American in their lives.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, and the president. I talked about that.

[Ben Ferguson]

I mean, people don't realize, I think, how much that weighed even on President Bush when I was around him, when he knew that there were Americans dying. Because the decision that you're making, Donald Trump, I think, really understands that as well.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah. And we talked about that. And we both talked about. We marveled at the incredible military precision that they carried out. That the fact that this attack, they went in and they landed in the middle of a major metropolitan city with 5 million people, they landed in the middle of a huge military base. You know, it's been now publicly reported that there were 32 Cuban soldiers guarding Maduro, all of whom were killed.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

And we did not lose a single US Serviceman who was there. Two were shot, but neither was killed. And I'll tell you something, a fact I learned today, which I didn't know, which is when they had Maduro and the first lady and the Cuban security forces were opening fire on them, and then they were engaged in a firefight. Our soldiers blocked Maduro and the first lady with their own bodies. Now, they had body armor, but they were trying to make it an arrest. They actually treated it under the protocol for a hostage extraction because they didn't want them shot in the process. They wanted them to come back to the United States and face prosecution and face justice. And so you want to talk about the bravery of Delta Force, literally putting their bodies with body armor in front of Maduro and the first lady so that they didn't get shot by the Cubans. That's extraordinary. And I gotta say, so when I was talking with President Trump, he actually asked me, he brought up. He said, he brought up in the first term, his taking out General Soleimani in Iran. Yeah, he talked about his taking out Abaghdadi. He talked about his launching the military bombing attack on the nuclear facilities in Iran. And he talked about this. And all of them were spectacular successes. And actually, President Trump asked me a question. He said, ted, which was more important, the nuclear facilities in Iran or arresting Maduro?

[Ben Ferguson]

Actually, stop. That's a hard one.

[Ted Cruz]

I said, Mr. President, that is a very good question. And I said, to be honest, it's really close. If you forced me to answer that, here's what I would say. I think taking out the nuclear facilities in Iran was more important geopolitically in terms of our national security. The ayatollah with nuclear weapons could have murdered vast numbers of Americans. And so taking out those nuclear facilities made America much, much safer. But I said, arresting Maduro is A very close second, because it changed the entire geopolitical balance of power in the Western Hemisphere. And it's interesting, the President said, you know, I agree, that's exactly how I would rank those two. And so it was an interesting, you know, Trump is rarely, I would say, deeply introspective. That's not just his nature. And he was kind of reflecting on that. We had a good conversation. And to be honest, I hadn't until he asked me that question, I hadn't really thought of. But hands down, those are the two most important foreign policy decisions that he's made. And in terms of the Western Hemisphere, what does that mean? Well, let's take Cuba. Cuba is probably the country most impacted. We talked about this a little on Monday's pod. Want to score?

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[Ted Cruz]

So Cuba, for years, it's a communist dictatorship. It's been under communist control since Fidel Castro led a revolution that succeeded 1959. And the people, just like Venezuela, the communists in Cuba destroyed the economy. The people suffer in misery and poverty, but they've been ruthless. And for many decades, they survived in significant part because the Soviet Union sent them vast amounts of money. And so they were a satellite power of the Soviet Union, obviously led to things like the Cuban Missile Crisis, where the Soviets were trying to put missiles in Cuba to target the United States. But in the early 1990s, when the Soviet Union collapsed, suddenly Cuba did not have that financial lifeline anymore. And when that happened, the country that stepped in was Venezuela. And because Venezuela has these massive oil reserves and at the time still had significant money, essentially the trade off that Venezuela has done for years is Venezuela sends massive amounts of oil to Cuba and it fuels the Cuban economy, what little of it there. And Cuba, in effect, pays for it by sending thugs, by sending soldiers and guards. And the Cuban thugs, they, number one, they repress the Venezuelan people, they murder people, they torture people. But look, it speaks volumes that Maduro's guards were the 32 Cubans who were guarding him. I mean, that's literally his armed forces around him.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, it wasn't Venezuelan armed forces. It was Cubans.

[Ted Cruz]

And President Trump is continuing to enforce the oil blockade. So there is not Venezuelan oil flowing to Cuba right now, that is putting massive pressure on the Cuban economy. And I gotta say, the communist leadership there is looking around. And number one, you want to talk about their military prowess? They had 32 soldiers guarding Maduro. All 32 Cuban soldiers are dead. Not a single US soldier lost his life. They're sitting there going, okay, our days are numbered. And I'm hopeful one of the consequences of this will be a free Cuba, that the communist regime falls in Cuba.

[Ben Ferguson]

And that could be a fall because of just the economy totally collapsing and the lack of the lights literally staying on because of the oil not showing up.

[Ted Cruz]

Yes. And I'll say more broadly, dictatorships depend upon the perception of strength, the perception of invulnerability. We're seeing this play out in Iran right now in Iran. There are protests all over Iran, on the streets, and the people are rising up. And regular listeners of Verdict will recall that in the wake of President Trump ordering the bombing on the Iranian nuclear facilities, I predicted on this podcast, I said, I think the Ayatollah and the mullahs, their days are numbered. And here's why. The Ayatollah lost a war. And there are real consequences in the real world when you lose a war. Now, first they lost the 12 day war to Israel. And Israel took out all of their air defenses, took out much of their senior leadership, took out much of the irgc, took out the head of the irgc. Literally, day after day after day, they kept appointing someone new and he was killed the next day. And if you are a radical Islamist leader who not only loses a war, but loses a war to Israel, yeah, you know what? You ain't the supreme leader. Any war, you look weak and ineffective. And there's no ambiguity about it. There's no amount of spinning that can say, no, no, no, we didn't lose. And then you put on top of that, the President of the United States bombs into oblivion your nuclear facilities. And what I said is, look, we don't have to Send in the U.S. military to Iran for the regime to fall. The regime is so weakened, my hope is the Iranian people will rise up. And I think there's a real possibility that's happening right now. And they are weakened. Well, the same is true. Certainly Venezuela, the fact that Maduro was captured has weakened the communist regime there. But the communist regime in Cuba, the fact that their soldiers were just obliterated, just like it weakens Iran, it weakens Cuba as well. And by the way, the same thing is true for Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua. And other communists of Sandinista. The same thing is true for Gustavo Petro in Colombia, another radical left winger who's viciously anti American, and even Lula in Brazil. Now, Brazil is a more stable and stronger country than the other players. But Lula, likewise, every leftist in Latin America who hates America and hates President Trump is materially weaker. And I believe arresting Maduro is going to result in more freedom loving and America loving leaders in Latin America and more countries moving in the direction to be our friends. That's good for Latin America, but it's good for America.

[Ben Ferguson]

And there's another country I want to ask you about and that's Mexico.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Ben Ferguson]

You actually had a codel, what, three, four months ago where you went down into Latin America. I would be very interested to see how that CODELL would go down today and what the conversations would be like with the leaders you met with today compared to then. Let's talk a little bit about Mexico. It's pretty clear now that people are accepting the fact that it's a failed state. The narco terrorists are in charge of it. The President of Mexico is a figurehead at best. There's a lot of people that are asking the question, is that now I guess you could say the reality of this because of what we are witnessing, and maybe she doesn't seem to be as strong as she was before. What does this mean for the narco terrorists there? And what does this mean for America's response? And is this also an opportunity with us to stop the flow of drugs? We've stopped the human trafficking, we stopped the illegal immigrants coming across the border. That's amazing. But there's still a lot of drugs that are in Mexico that come into the United States of America, find their way in. So what does this do now for Donald Trump's hand and our national security? Stopping the drugs the same way we did in Venezuela.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, look, so I think what you said about Claudia Sheinbaum, the President of Mexico, is too strong. I would not describe Mexico as a failed state. And I think she is in a fundamentally different position than a Maduro or the other communist dictators in Latin America. She is a leftist. She's following Amlo, who was elected as a leftist. But listen, Mexico and the United States have massive trade and commerce back and forth. We cooperate on a great, great deal of matters. You know, we've talked on this podcast before about Mexican water. There's a water treaty called the water treaty of 1944 that obligates Mexico to provide 350,000 acre feet of water a year to South Texas and under Biden. The Biden administration didn't enforce that treaty. And Mexico walked all over us and ended up being 1.3 million acre feet of water in arrears. Now, what did that mean as a practical matter? It meant that the farmers in South Texas were facing a drought. Not a natural disaster, but a man made disaster. It was caused by the Mexican government defying their treaty obligations. And by the way, the Mexicans were diverting that water from South Texas to the farmers in Northern Mexico. And so the drought in South Texas, you had farmers who were taking about half their acreage out of production, were laying off workers. The only sugar mill in Texas in 2024 closed down because of the drought caused by Mexico defying the treaty. And the farms in Northern Mexico were lush and verdant. I mean, they were awash in water. And I spent the entire Biden presidency trying to get the Biden State Department to stand up to Mexico. They refused to do so. When Trump came in, I went to him directly and asked him, and in fact, I worked with him to draft a tweet that he sent that made very clear. He threatened Mexico, if you don't give the water that Texas deserves, we're going to impose sanctions or tariffs. The day President Trump sent the tweet, and to be clear, it was a tweet that I helped write.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

That night, Claudia Sheinbaum called an emergency cabinet meeting at 7pm that evening to decide how to respond. And she responded by releasing about 400,000 acre feet of water, which was enormously helpful to the farmers in South Texas. And then just in December, the Mexicans had started slow walking the water again. And so I went to Trump again. I went to the Oval and number one, I told him the story of like the emergency cabinet meeting, which I don't know that he had heard the blow by blow of what had happened. But then I said, look, they're slow walking it again. Would you send another tweet? He said, sure, draft something for me and we'll do it within like a day or two. He sent out the other tweet and he, and he said, look, we're going to respond forcibly against Mexico unless you agree to provide us, they owe us for, under the treaty, a little over 800,000 acre feet of water remaining. And Mexico agreed we're going to provide the water. So, so I will say Mexico. Look, look, Claudia Sheinbaum is no doubt disturbed by seeing Maduro weakened. And Mexico had to some extent aligned with the Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Colombia, access. But Mexico also has very close relationships with the United States. So it stands on a different footing. But you're right. In August, when I was in Mexico meeting with senior government officials, I said, listen, you guys are either gonna go after the narco traffickers who are in Mexico, the cartels who became massively powerful under Biden, or if you don't go after them. I said, I believe Donald Trump will. And they were skeptical. I gotta tell you, one of my sort of senior foreign policy guy was on the trip with me, and he argued with me. And what he argued with me at the time is he said, I think Trump will go after Venezuela before Mexico. And I said, I don't know about that. I think the Mexican cartels. He's very focused on it. Well, it turned out he maintains we made a bet on it. I don't recall any wager, but he.

[Ben Ferguson]

Insisted, I believe that there was a bet. Now I totally believe it because I know who you're talking about. I'm going to side on this one for sure.

[Ted Cruz]

I am skeptical that there was any wager, but I will say you're right for Mexico also. I have every confidence that it is going to focus the mind of the administration, that when the Trump administration says, let's go after the narco traffickers, they better cooperate or bad things can happen. And I think that's a great thing. As I told the president yesterday when I talked to him, I said, listen, the world is safer. The world is better off. America is safer when we have a strong commander in chief as compared to a weak commander in chief as compared to Joe Biden. And I'll tell you, Trump and I both talked about. We both immediately went to the same analogy, which was Jimmy Carter when he sent in a rescue team to rescue our hostages in Iran in 1979. And that rescue team crashed in the desert. Two helicopters crashed into each other, and there was no opposing fire. They hadn't even gotten there. They just crashed. And it was. And actually, Trump asked me the following question. He said, do you think Carter would have lost if those helicopters hadn't crashed? And I said, I don't know. It's a very good question. And he said, or if there hadn't been a hostage crisis, I said, that's a really good question. I said, I think Carter lost for two big reasons. One, the economy was a disaster and he screwed it up badly. And two, the incredible weakness of the hostage crisis. Americans don't like a weak president. I think those two are what elected Ronald Reagan. And I told President Trump, I said, we don't have to go all the way back to Carter. We can go to Joe Biden. Joe Biden lost and you won. Number one, cuz he screwed up the economy and number two for the same thing, the foreign policy weakness. And it's why I said that President Trump showed so much courage by ordering this attack, because these things can go wrong. Now. I think part of the reason the military was so effective is he's, he's taken the shackles off them and let them focused on war fighting, on doing their job, on being effective. You don't have a bunch of lawyers.

[Ben Ferguson]

DEI ing it anymore like they were before. You don't have a bunch of dudes acting like chicks that are trying to get in the armed forces.

[Ted Cruz]

That's exactly right. And he allows them to focus on excellence and performing their job of keeping this country safe. And it was an extraordinary operation in Venezuela.

[Ben Ferguson]

It really was. So this, let's go to Venezuela now and wrap with this. What is next? And let me just. I could look at my Twitter feed and I was on CNN last night and it was the topic of conversation. And that is there are a lot of people that believe that America first policy that Donald Trump ran on was not invading countries and staying indefinitely, like Iraq, Afghanistan. There is a lot of concern. I heard it. You probably saw the clip of Lindsey Graham on Air Force One with the President saying, you know, this is a guy that loves to be in these forever wars. And there was people that were really concerned with that image of if that's who's in his ear. I don't want to get bogged down in Venezuela. I don't want our men and women to be there and loss of life to mount and grow because we decide to take over a country indefinitely. There's a lot of people that voted for Trump. They believe that's what he was never going to do. And now they're like, well, hold on, we're here, we're going to take it over. There is a lot of concern. So let's dive into that and talk about what this looks like next in Venezuela. What is responsibility? What responsibility do we have to do it the right way, but also to not just sit there indefinitely?

[Ted Cruz]

Well, listen, first of all, let me be clear. We are not at war with Venezuela. This is not a forever war. It's not even a war. This was a military operation to execute an arrest warrant. It was the military supporting the FBI and arresting indicted narco terrorists. And it took a couple of hours and was over. They went in, they got them and they left. That was the conclusion of the military conflict. It's not a war. It's not, as I said, it's not a forever war. It was not even a five hour war. It was about a two hour war. And I wouldn't even call it a war. It was when you go and arrest someone, it was an arrest with the military supporting and protecting the law enforcement officers carrying out the arrest. What happens next? So the day after Maduro was arrested, Delsey Rodriguez, who was the vice president, was sworn in as the interim president. Now listen, no American should be happy with Delsey Rodriguez as the president of Venezuela for any extended period of time. And I'm gonna go into a little bit of background in terms of who she is and then talk about what should happen next. Now, Delsey Rodriguez is a communist.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yes.

[Ted Cruz]

She was the vice president. She hates America. Let me give you some of her background. She was the vice president. Before that she was the oil minister. And she is a lawyer too, like the first lady. And she's been in, in just about every post. She was also, she was foreign minister. She was president of the Constituent assembly, vice president and oil minister. She was sworn in as the interim president. You know who swore in?

[Ben Ferguson]

Who's that?

[Ted Cruz]

Her brother, Jorge Rodriguez, who is the head of the National Assembly. So to understand this is a corrupt, Marxist, communist America hating woman. And let me give you her background. She was born in Caracas. She is the daughter of a Marxist guerrilla leader named Jorge Antonio Rodriguez. And she is rather. Rather. Her dad was a co founder of the Socialist League. Her dad was arrested in connection with the 1976 kidnapping of American businessman William F. Nehouse and died in police custody. And one source said the following. That ordeal is the foundation and origin of Delsey's hatred of the west and of democracy. Her whole background was Marxist. And in fact, the source continued, the guerrilla Marxist element kidnapped an American Executive 1976. He was held for three years until authorities located the group hiding in the Amazon jungle. She is, she. She was sanctioned by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Asset Control because of her senior role in the Maduro administration. Those sanctions are still in place. She was also caught transporting gold illegally into Spain. She had 40 bags, four, zero bags full of gold in a private jet as the vice president. And they put the bags through the X ray. They said, wait, you got 40 bags full of gold? And she was, she's like, I'm from Venezuela.

[Ben Ferguson]

This is normal. This is how we operate There, I'm the vice president, Right. Like that's no big deal.

[Ted Cruz]

Look, look, she is a communist leader and she is not a friend of the West. Now, I will say this right now. It appears she's cooperating with the Trump administration. It. I'm sure it made an impression seeing Delta Force show up at a rest. Maduro and the first lady.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, because she could be next.

[Ted Cruz]

She's cooperating right now. We'll see if she continues to cooperate. By the way, there are multiple reports of violence on the ground. There have been reports of potential coups from other leaders in the government. There is some instability. But I'll tell you what needs to happen. No one should be happy. Number one, what you said is exactly right. We do not want to see an American occupation. We don't want to see an extended American presence on the ground, and we don't want to see this America hating communists. Essentially, the Maduro regime continuing. What should happen is free and fair elections. And free and fair elections. Look, the last election we talked about in the last podcast, that Maduro was arrested because he's anarcho trafficker, but he was also arrested because he's illegitimate. Because in the last election, he lost decisively to the opposition party, and yet he stayed in power just as a thug and dictator. And that was part of the legal basis for why we could do this, because he was no longer legitimately a head of state, and he was not recognized as the head of state by the United States, including the Biden administration and much of the rest of the world. There should be free and fair elections. And I think it would be very, very good for Venezuela and very, very good for America if they were to elect a leader who is a pro America, pro free market leader, and Venezuela were to return to being a friend particularly. Look, one of the big things, they've got the largest proven oil reserves of any country in the world.

[Ben Ferguson]

And it really is amazing that if you think about the amount of oil they have and also gold, that how quickly they could come out of this if they just didn't have communists running the country like this is. This would be one of the easiest. I was described today by a banker, and he was, he was just trying to put it in perspective. He's like, when other countries fall, then they need the World Bank. They need people to come in and give them cash and to help just stabilize at the bare minimum of a total collapse of their economy. He said, if you asked me right now, what country would I want to be able to take over based on their resources to build them back up the fastest. He was like, venezuela is like one of the easiest ones in the whole world to do because of how minutes they have to sell. They could get their economy up and roaring and the people could have a great life. And they used to have that, by the way, in Venezuela. People forget that.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah. Remember in 1950, Venezuela had the fourth highest GDP per capita in the world. The United States was first, then Switzerland, then New Zealand, and Venezuela was number four. That's what these communists screwed up. And listen, President Trump has focused a great deal on trying to get US Oil companies to go and invest in Venezuela now to produce the oil. Even though they have proven reserves, their infrastructure has collapsed. It's the corruption of the communism. They're not producing what they could. And to be able to produce will take an investment of likely hundreds of billions of dollars. It's not a cheap proposition. Now, the oil that will be produced would generate more revenue than that. But I'll tell you, I actually spent a good chunk of the day talking to people in the energy industry and asking their views on Venezuela. And a big question that if you're. Let's say you're the CEO of Chevron or the CEO of ExxonMobil, and you're trying to decide, do I invest tens of billions or hundreds of billions, your number one question is, what's the government there? Are they stable? Is there rule of law? Are they gonna protect me? Are they gonna seize? Am I gonna invest $100 billion and they come seize the assets like they did before? If you don't trust the government there.

[Ben Ferguson]

To protect your property rights, 100 billion.

[Ted Cruz]

You'Re not gonna invest. And it's why having free and fair elections and a stable government that is friends of the United States, that is not communist, is critical to the success not just of Venezuela, but to the success of America's relationship with Venezuela. And so I will say, you know, there's some folks, you're seeing people who are saying, well, no, no, no, this, this was not regime change because we just arrested Maduro, but the exact same regime is in place. And let me be clear. This I very much hope will be regime change at the ballot box, which is a very different thing. That it will be the voters, that there will be a free and fair elections, and the voters will choose. We don't want these corrupt Marxist narco traffickers. We want a leader that we choose to represent us and to bring us back to prosperity. And if you want prosperity in Venezuela, you want free enterprise. You want incentives for investment to develop the massive natural resources and you want to trade with the United States of America. And so that's the outcome of all of us should be rooting for. And I believe that's the outcome President Trump is working very hard to produce.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, it's good. It's going to be very interesting to see. We're going to keep covering it, I can promise you that. Don't forget, we do the show Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And if you missed part one of our deep dive into Venezuela and what has happened, make sure you go back and grab Monday's podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And also you can watch our episodes on YouTube, subscribe to the channel there. It's free. Also on Facebook, you can do that as well. Follow the Senator and I on X and we will keep you up to date on everything going on in the world. And the Senator and I will see you back here Friday morning.

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[Ted Cruz]

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