George Knapp Grills Robert Bigelow About UFOs

Summary

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Vetted: The UFO Sleuth

Episode Summary: "George Knapp Grills Robert Bigelow About UFOs"

Release Date: August 6, 2026
Host: Patrick Scott Armstrong
Guests: George Knapp (as interviewer), Robert Bigelow (guest)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Vetted: The UFO Sleuth features a high-profile conversation between veteran journalist George Knapp and aerospace billionaire and UFO research pioneer Robert Bigelow. The focus is on Bigelow’s unprecedented Oval Office meeting with President Trump, his recommendations for UFO disclosure, the challenges surrounding government transparency, and reflections on “gatekeepers” in the UFO secrecy infrastructure. The episode offers candid insights into government handling of UFO phenomena, the realities of presidential knowledge, and the ongoing struggle for public disclosure.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Robert Bigelow’s Oval Office Briefing with President Trump

• Key Details:

  • Bigelow met President Trump in the Oval Office on February 6, 2026, to discuss reports on seven sensitive topics, among which UAPs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and disclosure featured prominently.
  • Bigelow delivered all the reports after being encouraged not to hold back, expecting the President to eventually read them all.
  • (09:14, 10:24)

• Bigelow’s Main Disclosure Advice:

  • Bigelow wanted the president to make a concise, direct public statement acknowledging the existence of non-human intelligence on Earth.
  • Suggested language:

    “A non human intelligent presence has been on earth for a very long time using spacecraft and with performances completely beyond our capabilities and our human physics. And that's it. To say nothing else. That's it. That's all.”
    – Robert Bigelow, (02:54, 14:43)

• Rationale:

  • Bigelow emphasized that confirmation is the essential first step in disclosure—separating official acknowledgment from detailed explanations, which could follow gradually.

2. The State of Disclosure – Progress and Frustrations

• George Knapp’s Framing:

  • Knapp observes that disclosure, once a fringe idea ridiculed by media, is now actively discussed at the highest political levels.
  • Despite the progress, released information remains limited, frustrating researchers and advocates.
  • (01:57, 08:10, 08:34)

• Presidential Knowledge and Limitations:

  • Bigelow recounts Bill Clinton’s desire to learn the truth about UFOs and JFK’s assassination, showing even presidents may struggle to uncover hidden knowledge.
  • "Presidents come and presidents go and they have varying degrees of interest in the topic and various varying degrees of knowledge of it. Right. If they don't push it, they're not going to find out..."
    – George Knapp, (17:15)
  • Bigelow emphasizes, “They have to. Somebody has to be the, the driving horse to pull that wagon and it's. And it can't let go.” (17:33)

• Barriers to Presidential Access:

  • Bigelow notes security clearances—such as TS/SCI—aren’t themselves enough to access UFO/ET legacy programs; need-to-know and gatekeeper control override official clearances. (17:47)

3. The “Gatekeepers” and Secrecy Infrastructure

• Who Are the Gatekeepers?

  • People inside government agencies and private contractors with deep, compartmentalized knowledge, who "have custody of the goods" (evidence, know-how, hardware, information).
  • They maintain secrecy out of obligation, patriotism, or fear, sometimes taking secrets to their graves.

    “They go to their graves taking information that they, their spouses have never heard, their children have never heard. They can't talk about it to anybody, any friend. So they're isolated about that. And, and after a while, I think that must be a burden.”
    – Robert Bigelow, (25:26)

• Sympathy and Critique:

  • Bigelow expresses empathy for the personal burden on gatekeepers, stressing the complexity and inability to simply "blame" such individuals.
  • He proposes gatekeepers must be given preemptive pardons or legal immunity to come forward with information ("give them a free pass on, on clear them from legal liability for whatever has happened").
    – Robert Bigelow, (37:20)

4. Secrecy, National Security, and the Danger of Disclosure

• Measured Disclosure Advice:

  • Bigelow warns against “dumping” everything at once, arguing even a single sentence of confirmation would “open Pandora’s box”. Subsequent information would need careful segmentation and control.
  • Protecting national security interests and strategic advantage (re: adversaries like Russia or China) is an ongoing concern:

    “There are reasons to have national secrets. There really are. I mean, that's kind of like common sense. Right.”
    – Robert Bigelow, (30:19)

• On Communication with “The Others”:

  • Establishing contact or communication with non-human intelligence involves trust, demonstration, and determining the right individuals (not exclusively politicians, military, lawyers, or scientists) to represent humanity.

    “It’s really complex because who are you going to have initiate it? … And how do you know to whom you're talking? How do you know you can trust what they're saying, because it depends on the form of communication."
    – Robert Bigelow, (31:03, 32:41)

5. Crashed UFOs, Materials, and Private Contractors

• On Recovery and Secrecy:

  • Both Bigelow and Knapp agree that crash retrievals and material recoveries have happened, and that the U.S. military/intelligence community handed off materials to private contractors for study and reverse engineering.

    “Our government, military intelligence agencies have recovered crash disks or materials or mechanisms, machinery, advanced machinery from somewhere else. And that we've handed that over to contractors to figure it out. Yes, yes. For sure."
    – George Knapp, with Bigelow’s affirmation, (40:12-40:35)

  • Bigelow unequivocally says, “Yes, yes. I, I am. I am sure.” (40:35)

• Calls for Corporate Transparency:

  • Bigelow recommends corporations be included in immunity provisions, as they have been government partners for decades.

• Personal Involvement:

  • Although Bigelow is "sure" of private companies possessing advanced materials, he has not publicly admitted his own company ever obtained such evidence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bigelow’s “Disclosure Statement” for the President

  “A non human intelligent presence has been on earth for a very long time using spacecraft and with performances completely beyond our capabilities and our human physics. And that's it. To say nothing else. That's it. That's all.”
  – Robert Bigelow, (02:54, 14:43)

• On Gatekeepers and the Burden of Secrecy:

  “They go to their graves taking information that they, their spouses have never heard, their children have never heard. They can't talk about it to anybody, any friend. So they're isolated about that. And, and after a while, I think that must be a burden.”
  – Robert Bigelow, (25:26)

• On Presidential Limitations:

  “Presidents come and presidents go and they have varying degrees of interest in the topic and various varying degrees of knowledge of it. Right. If they don't push it, they're not going to find out..."
  – George Knapp, (17:15)

• On Secrecy and National Security:

  “There are reasons to have national secrets. There really are. I mean, that's kind of like common sense. Right.”
  – Robert Bigelow, (30:19)

• On Corporate and Government Complicity:

  “The United States government is absolutely, totally complicit. And any kind of process of back engineering or anything to do with ETs, any kind of, of contact in one way or another with ETs, absolutely complicit. And so nobody can be a hypocrite on, on this, on this level, you know…”
  – Robert Bigelow, (37:41)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:23 / 14:34: Bigelow describes the advice he gave President Trump regarding disclosure.
• 09:14 / 10:24: Details on Oval Office meeting, sharing of reports.
• 14:43: Verbatim text of Bigelow’s desired presidential statement.
• 17:15–17:41: Discussion of presidential access, Clinton’s personal UFO inquiries.
• 23:55–25:26: Description of the Oval Office briefing, “gatekeepers,” and their burdens.
• 30:19–31:03: Discussion on measured disclosure and national security risks.
• 37:20–37:41: Bigelow: Gatekeepers must have immunity to share secrets.
• 40:12–40:38: Bigelow’s unambiguous affirmation of crash retrievals and private contractor involvement.

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Tone and Presentation

The episode is marked by candid, thoughtful reflection between two highly respected figures in the UFO field. Bigelow’s comments are measured, pragmatic, and focused on incremental change and the realities of secrecy and governance. George Knapp brings both context and probing questions, emphasizing the historical difficulties and contemporary importance of disclosure.

The podcast is also peppered with skeptical and analytical asides (mainly from the host, Patrick Scott Armstrong) assessing rumors, media reporting, and the interplay between government officials, researchers, and journalists. The tone is confident but careful, balancing awe at the subject’s gravity with a commitment to critical inquiry and responsible disclosure.

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Final Notes

This discussion sets the stage for future episodes likely to delve further into claims about exotic materials, crash retrievals, and behind-the-scenes political maneuvering. It demonstrates both the complexity of disclosure and who holds the keys to the deepest UFO secrets in government and industry.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

The President issued a directive said start releasing information on these files now. It's been a little disappointing what's been released so far and I don't know who's in charge of what gets released, but at least it's happened and he's acknowledged that it's something he wants to share with the public. That's an amazing step to come that far. But you had a chance to speak directly with the President and urged him to go even further earlier this year. When did that happen?

[Robert Bigelow]

I was in the process for several months Putting together a series of reports on seven different topics and UAPs, ET and disclosure was one of the topics. Asked to see him. And so February 6th, I was in the Oval Office with the President.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

What was your goal going in? What was the one thing you wanted to convey to him on that topic? That, that you wanted to come out and have him understand.

[Robert Bigelow]

Let me, let me read to something I told him I wanted him to say verbatim. And I described where he should say it, not where a podium existed and a lot of media existed. But I said, I want you to, for example, deliver this statement as you are getting onto Air Force One and you're about to go through the hatchway, through the door, but you stop and talk to the media and you might say something like I just want you to hear something. I want to make a statement. And I said, and this is what I want you to say. Mr. President, a non human intelligent presence has been on earth for a very long time using spacecraft and with performances completely beyond our capabilities and our human physics. And that's it. To say nothing else. That's it. That's all.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Our government, military intelligence agencies have recovered crash disks or materials or mechanisms, machinery, advanced machinery from somewhere else. And that we've handed that over to contractors to figure it out. Yes. Yes, for sure. Yes.

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Robert, you've spent I don't know how many years and how many millions of dollars, probably more money than any person in the history of the world pursuing topics of mutual interest. You've been at this even longer than I have, which is an awful long time.

[Robert Bigelow]

I think it even started in a past life for Me, it's been a very long time.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

You know, at the beginning, when I first knew you back in the late 80s, the idea of disclosure was such a far off concept. It really wasn't even, you know, we're trying to figure out what, what's real, what do people know, what do we need to know. But the idea of someone announcing disclosure, whether that's the President or the Pope or something like that, was just such a far away idea.

[Robert Bigelow]

Well, the subject was, was made fun of. It was a joke.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Yeah.

[Robert Bigelow]

And mostly by a lot of the media, propagated that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Right, right, right. I've been on the receiving end of that. You have too. But now it's not so far away anymore. I mean, the idea of disclosure is being discussed. Early this year, the President issued a directive, said start releasing information on these files now. It's been a little disappointing what's been released so far. And I don't know who's in charge of what gets released, but at least it's happened and he's acknowledged that it's something he wants to share with the public. That's an amazing step to come that far. But you had a chance to speak directly with the President and urged him to go even further earlier this year. When did that happen?

[Robert Bigelow]

So I was, I was in the process for, for several months putting together a series of reports on seven different topics and UAPs, ET and disclosure was one of the topics. And so when I was ready, I asked to see him. And so February 6th, I was in the Oval Office with the President and there was a staff secretary by the name of William Scharf, S C H A R F who was also there with the President myself. And I had concerns about dumping so much information on him at one time. And I asked Susie, Susie Wiles, Susie Wiles, should I really hope, shouldn't I hold back and maybe only give him two or three papers? And she said no, she said, go ahead and give him everything. I can tell you this, it may take him a while, but he will eventually read it all. Said, okay, I'll do it.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

You don't know how much time you got with them?

[Robert Bigelow]

I haven't a clue. I figure it's probably more than 30 minutes, but I don't know. And as it turned out, I, I, we were finished in about an hour and 15 or 20 minutes and, but I could have taken two days because these were complex subjects. And on the disclosure, uap, ET subject, which is always great fun to talk about, that's a really important one. It's super important.

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

And many people are saying, this right here is the bombshell part of this clip. So let me break it down for you. So if you remember back in January of this year, a gentleman named Mark Christopher Lee came out a British UFO filmmaker, and he had come out in January saying that Trump was going to deliver a big UFO speech and it was going to happen on July 8th. And, you know, you remember the whole story. I mean, I did several videos on it, right. And he basically said he had a Trump insider and that Trump was going to deliver this disclosure speech. Right. Everything like that. Again, this is in January. Well, later on, he comes out and says it was actually Robert Bigelow who told him that Trump was delivering this speech. Right. And then George Knapp had come out and said, that's not true. This it. Yeah, I spoke to Robert Bigelow. He says, never spoken to you, all of this stuff. Well, now Robert Bigelow is coming out in this podcast and saying that he did speak to Trump and that he did offer a sort of not speech, but did offer a statement to Donald Trump that he should deliver on Air Force One as Robert Bigelow described. Right. And just kind of give a confirmation, a quick statement, not a speech. But what's people are forgetting and you know, is that people are trying to say, well, this justifies Mark Christopher Lee. See, he was right the whole time. Well, not really. You know, Robert Bigelow there explains that he didn't talk to Trump till February 6th or 8th or whatever it was. Right. The beginning of February. Mark came out with this story in January. So what are we talking about? Right. I don't really see any correlation here, any connection. There still could be, I don't know. You know, you know, at the end of the day, I don't know. But I just want to focus on what Robert Bigelow is talking about here. Right. So he's essentially saying he got Oval Office time with President Donald Trump and he was going to talk about many different things. And one of those things was the UAP topic. And again, he offered this sort of statement that he should make to the American people. And, you know, I guess it got conflated or whatever. I don't know. There's just a lot of stories floating around that Trump's going to deliver this big disclosure speech. And then Robert Bigalow is like, I just offered a small statement that he should make. And then people are saying, no, he has speeches prepared, but that doesn't mean anything. Right. You just have speeches prepared as A just in case scenario that staffers could write up and Trump doesn't even know about it. Right. So that's why you got to ask deeper questions about this stuff. But it's interesting, Robert Bigelow's approach to this because, you know, Robert Bigelow and George Knapp have been at this a long time. But specifically, you know, Robert Bigelow is the one who has the big access, right, as a donor to President Donald Trump. He has gotten time with him and with that time, some of that time, he's used it to talk about uap, Right. And aliens essentially, which is interesting. Right. And good, I guess, in the sense that, you know, if anyone can maybe have a little influence or at least get him to look a little closer, maybe Robert Biglow could be the one. And I think that was his intention. Right. So I don't know. Let me know. What do you think down in the comments. Let's continue because there's more.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

What was your goal going in? What was the one thing you wanted to convey to him on that topic that, that you wanted to come out and have him understand in such a

[Robert Bigelow]

short period of time? I only had an average of like 11 minutes per paper to talk about a paper. I wish I had a lot more, but I. Let me, let me read to you something. I, I told him I wanted him to say verbatim and I described where he should say it, not where a podium existed and a lot of media existed. But I said, I want you to, for example, deliver this statement as you are getting onto airplace, Air Force One, and you're about to go through the hatchway through the door, but you stop and talk to the media and you might say something like, I just want you to hear something. I want to make a statement. And I would said, and this is what I want you to say, Mr. President, a non human intelligent presence has been on earth for a very long time using spacecraft and with performances completely beyond our capabilities and our human physics. And that's it. To say nothing else. That's it. That's all. Because what this is is, is disclosure. And, and it's actually confirmation. And the two are well welded together. These are wedded together and, and confirmation has not been officially made by any president that I know of and has not. They've, they've had different kinds of contact conversations and so forth. And a really good close friend of mine verified Harry Reid, who he and I were very good friends for many, many years, verified with Bill Clinton that he didn't know about the subject. And this was, I think in his second term and there was a staffer that wrote a book and he referred to a conversation that he and, and the Bill Clinton had, President Clinton had. And it just involved when President Clinton said to him, before I leave office, there are two things I really want to know. What the hell is the UFO subject all about? And who really killed jfk?

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

His aide was Webb Hubble, who got the assignment to go dig into them.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yes, yes.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

And he didn't get the answer.

[Robert Bigelow]

So Harry took the book.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Right.

[Robert Bigelow]

So I gave him the book and I show him where on page so and so has said that. So he, he met with, with President Clinton. He said, did you say this? And Clinton said, hell yes. Would you like to know the, the answers to those two things? You know, he said, absolutely. You know, I would.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

I mean the sense that we have after digging into this topic for a long time, presidents come and presidents go and they have varying degrees of interest in the topic and various varying degrees of knowledge of it. Right. If they don't push it, they're not going to find out. Is that your sense of it?

[Robert Bigelow]

Absolutely, absolutely. They have to. Somebody has to be the, the driving horse to pull that wagon and it's. And it can't let go.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

And I suppose even if they do press, press it and push it, they don't necessarily get briefed.

[Robert Bigelow]

Oh well, they will not have anything to do. They will not know anything about unacknowledged saps, for sure. And only on a really serious need to know basis would they have anything to do with acknowledged saps. You know, TSSDI is nowhere near close enough, you know that that was only clearances that we had. Top secret special compartmental information that's not even remotely close enough.

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

So again, there you go. That's the type of statement that Robert Bigelow wanted, you know, Trump to make, not some big speech. So I don't know, the Mark Christopher Lee thing and Trump and Bigelow, you know, what's going on there? I, I don't know. You know, Marcus really is sharing messages between what he says is Robert Bigelow and it just has an RB at the bottom. I mean, I don't know. Right. So many people are saying you could just make this stuff with AI. You know, I'm not making that accusation against Mark, but regardless, the dates just don't line up. You know what I mean? If Robert Bigelow is saying he spoke in February, Mark is saying January anyway, you know, again, what, whatever. But you Know, it's this conversation about what could presidents know, Right. They're supposed to be U. S. Presidents are allegedly. Right. You know, the most powerful person in the world at the time. Right. When they're president. Because, you know, America is the world's biggest superpower. Right. So if you're the leader of that biggest superpower, well, you're therefore, you know, sort of the leader of the free world, as they say. Well, you know, what information could they have? Right. And what do they get access to? It's a need to know, Right. So they don't get. They don't get knowledge of everything, but you would assume maybe they don't get told everything all at once when they come in office.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Of course.

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

I mean, that makes sense. There's too many things going on. You don't just tell them everything, but if they ask about it, they would get the knowledge about it. Right. So, I mean, they get knowledge about all kinds of different things. Right. They have access to the nuclear codes. Right. They could launch nuclear attacks. But you're telling me they're not knowing. You know, if they asked about some of these secret projects, they're not going to be told. I just don't buy that personally. But, you know, what do I know? Right? And then we're supposed to assume that there's people, you know, podcasters, for instance, who have more access to information than the president of the United States. UFO podcasters, who claim to have more access. Right. Than the president of the United States. Someone like UAP, GERB or even Ross Coltart. Right. Who claim to have sources inside the Legacy program, again, the most secretive program to ever exist for the most powerful nation to ever exist. They got access and they got information inside this program, but the president doesn't know about it. Tell me how that makes any sense at all, logically? Reasonably, it doesn't. Right. So, you know, are they keeping presidents out of it? I guess there could be something to this. I just think if a president were to dig deep enough, he'd find out, you know, and then maybe. Would he keep it secret? Sure. That. That's a different argument that they're, you know, then made to keep it secret. That is something I could wrap my head around, but not that they just wouldn't find out at all, but again, podcasters would know about it. And all these people that come out and, you know, they claim to have more information than the president of the United States on this stuff, I just, you know, can't wrap my head around it. So I don't know. Let me know what what do you think in the comments about that?

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[Botox Medication Narrator]

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Let's go back to Donald Trump. You know him. I mean, it's not like you're hanging out and going bowling on Saturday nights. But your friends, you've supported him over the years, a lot of money, a lot of donations in his campaigns. You know him, you've been to Mar A Lago, he calls you from time to time. So the chance to sit down and talk with them on this topic, that's the first time you've talked to him about it.

[Robert Bigelow]

Well, it was a big honor to be in the Oval Office on and and being able to brief him on so many different kinds of really sensitive, important topics and including this one. And it was, it was a lot of fun.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

We'll come back to the other topics at some point in future Conversations. I hope this is the first of many that we have. But you, you prepare a document for him and what you want to convey in that time period, and then there's additional material in that document. Like what, What'd you have in there?

[Robert Bigelow]

Well, so first I said, okay, we got to clear. We, we. You know, the Resolute desk is a very famous desk, and that's what he was sitting behind. I said, we're going to have to clear all half of this stuff off the desk. So William, the other, the, the staff secretary there, we started, we were grabbing things and. Sorry. We were grabbing things. And so we were, we, we made room for these seven different stacks of reports that I'm leaving behind. They were more than just one copy. And so, so that's how it started. And, and we got into. To the topic about the UAP topic and, and disclosure. And we had. I remember talking at some time about the gatekeepers. So this disclosure is a process. And I, and I was, I was emphasizing that the disclosure process, starting with confirmation, is a big deal that, you know, that really is important for somebody like the President, United States to say, yeah, they're real, they're here. And eliminate all the other nonsense, all the noise that's been going on for 80 years. And so I wanted him to focus on gatekeepers. And I emphasize these people because they're the ones that are in government locations and private corporation locations that have spent their substantial lives or careers working in, in very secluded environments, and they have custody of the goods, more information than they are diamonds in a coal mine. They have, they have obtained information about ET Themselves, about hardware. Other countries are working on this exact same thing. So you have to be careful not to talk about things that would give other people advantages and so on. And the gatekeepers, I've, I've told people that there are heroes of a different kind. A lot of people would laugh at that, but it's true. It's true. They go to their graves taking information that they, their spouses have never heard, their children have never heard. They can't talk about it to anybody, any friend. So they're isolated about that. And, and after a while, I think that must be a burden.

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

Think about the gatekeepers. You hear this term a lot, the gatekeepers. Right. I've even had discussions with people about what exactly that term means. Right. What exactly does that mean, gatekeeper? What do you mean by that when you use the term? Right? Because it just sounds like saying the deep state that this, it's just like this, this Sort of entity, umbrella entity that covers everything. That's mysterious, but you can't really define it. You know, it's like, does it really exist then? So I don't know. Like, you know, they're basically just talking about, you know, people with all the information who don't get it out to the American people. Well, if that's the definition of a gatekeeper, then we've got gatekeepers in the UFO community. There's lots of people who claim to have information but can't bring it out because of NDAs or classified or this or that or whatever reason they're being threatened. I mean, they're technically gatekeeping, if that's the definition. Now, that doesn't mean it's not justified gatekeeping. Right, but there's still gatekeepers, even have podcasters, again, podcaster, UFO podcasters and journalists who are gatekeeping information, have information and aren't releasing it. That. And then they want the government to do that. Right. But they're not willing to do it. So there's just a lot of. I just don't know what's going on. Right. It's a very confusing term, I think, gatekeepers. I'm just saying. And I think Robert Bigelow, he sympathizes with people with this decision, which to some extent I can also sympathize. And I'm not saying he doesn't make good points here, because I think he does. If there are people within the US Government who have been in programs for the US Government, whether they're unacknowledged or not, or black budget or not, or this or that, it's compartmentalized and they're just doing their job. How can you blame somebody for just doing their job? Right. It's easy in retrospect to look back and go, ah, that was wrong. Should have done this, should have done that. I mean, you know what I mean? So. And if they feel, you know, that it's for national security or to protect America or protect humanity or whatever they've been told or whatever they think, even if it's just, hey, you need to do your job and keep a secret, they're going to do it for America, just that simple. They don't need another reason why. There are a lot of people like that. And we need people like that to be honest. So are they really so bad if they are, these gatekeepers? I don't know. Right. It's a. The way they sell it. It's hard to sell it. Right. When you sell it as these are evil people Keeping a truth from reality. Right. You kind of set yourself up to be in the same sandbox. If you're also a podcast or a journalist with information or a whistleblower with information you're also not releasing, that could change humanity. Right. So, you know, I don't know. This is a tough one. Again, let me know what you think down in the comments.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Have you considered the political fallout for a president? Let's say it's Trump because he, he might be the guy that would do it and just cast his fate to the winds, but he makes an announcement. Yeah, they're here. Yeah. We've got programs.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

We've got crashes, we've got bodies. That's as far as I'm able to go right now. What happens to him politically? Is he able to get anything else?

[Robert Bigelow]

That's more than I would have said.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Right.

[Robert Bigelow]

For him to say.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Right.

[Robert Bigelow]

What you just said, that goes. I wouldn't advise him to say initially what you just said.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

You just say non human intelligence. Been here a long time.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yeah. That one sentence is a starter because it's a huge canon. You've opened up Pandora's box in terms of oh my gosh, what's going to happen, what's going to. So, okay, so now you can categorize and segment into topics and you need time to do that and it needs to be digestible and it needs to be not packaged in a scary kind of way. And it can't be packaged in a way that you're divulging what you shouldn't be divulging. You know, other countries aren't. So there's reasons to have national secrets. There really are. I mean, that's kind of like common sense. Right.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

We don't want the Russians and Chinese and maybe other adversaries to know how far along we are or are not.

[Robert Bigelow]

Absolutely. Okay. Abs especially of that. I think that the relationship thing is a mankind relationship. It's not just for America. When you're embarking as a president on trying to initiate a. A solemn relationship, you're not doing for us of a only. And so the. And then we probably can do a show on communication. But the. It's really complex because who are you going to have initiated? Are you going to have politicians initiate? Are you going to have military people? Because everybody has kind of their own mindset. Are you going to have a bunch of lawyers initiated? Are you going to have scientists only initiated? So it's. And how do you know to whom you're talking? How do you know you can trust what they're saying, because it depends on the form of communication. And what are you asking for in the way of proof or demonstrations to establish trust? Both ways in the communication process, because we haven't had that happen before. It is totally new ground. And frankly, we need the others help. We need the help of the others to help to, to guide us.

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

So I'm looking forward to this future episode. And essentially what they're part of, what they're talking about in that clip is the early 2000s, Lockheed Martin, you know, transfer of exotic materials that was allegedly going to happen as part of the OS App program. And some would argue that OS App was created just for that reason. This program set up to reach, you know, receive these materials that were of exotic origin, you know, alien, essentially, that Lockheed Martin allegedly have. And there was going to be a transfer, right? And it got blocked by, you know, some people, some say this guy named Glenn Gaffney. I mean, there's a lot more to the story. And, you know, Bigelow's talked about it a little, but this will be interesting to hear in a podcast because I bet he'll reveal some stuff we just haven't heard before. And I've always questioned that particular story. Not that the story isn't true, but just different aspects and details of it. You know, is it actually alien material? Right. Or was there a transfer of some stuff that's exotic? But you know what I mean, that, that's the thing. I don't know. I mean, I'm here for the alien stuff. So if it's just foreign adversaries, exotic technology, that's just not of interest to me. And it could be, you know, painted that way. That's the problem. We don't know. So anyway, I'll be interested to see this upcoming episode with Robert Bigelow and George Knapp talking about this specific transfer. Because that's what they're alluding to is that specific moment in the early 2000s.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

You and others have made attempts to find the programs, find the legacy programs, find the goods. You had some success in that that we will discuss and in a previous, in a upcoming conversation. But the doors in general, the doors get slammed in your face. Jay Stratton, who became head of the UAP task force after OS App, after that a tip thing, he made a point to go try to find it, and he appointed this guy, David Grush, who had these high level security clearances. Grush says he found it. There are people like Grush, whistleblowers, people who work in programs or for contractors who want to tell what they know but are afraid they'd be prosecuted. Do you. What advice would you give the president about how to handle those folks? There have been attempts to give them legal clearance to go ahead and come forward. They're not buying it so far. Would you give them sort of a pass, the authorization to tell what they know? And would you do the same thing to corporate interests who've been hiding this stuff at the request of the US Government?

[Robert Bigelow]

So, yes, and it's a function of, It's a matter of faith mostly on the other side. That's difficult for them because the history says differently. Going back 80 years from the initial threats of people that were at crash retrieval sites that weren't supposed to be there and the threats that was made by the military going way back.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

If you talk about it, we'll kill you.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yeah. I'm not talking about just men in black or anything like that, you know, so it gets down to a matter of trust. So again, you should, I mean, preemptive pardons, that's, that's a start. But that's, and you, you need to have a. People that are really experienced in task force that know about the subject. You don't want people that are having to go to class and they've had no class instructions. And they can be bright people, but you need really to have people who are bright about the subject and who have had contact in different kinds of ways. And so, and there are a lot of excellent people out there who you, who you have on, on our side as, as communicators really matters and what their backgrounds are and what their attitudes

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

are, especially you're talking about us communicating with them, the others.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

And you think that the expertise in doing something like that is in the hands of a very small group of people in the corporate world, contractors who've been carrying the ball for the US government for the past 80 years.

[Robert Bigelow]

I think the gatekeepers are. Yes, they should definitely have a role in, in terms of communication. Absolutely.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

Well, let's talk about the gatekeepers because that's part of your recommendation to the President is give them a free pass on, on clear them from legal liability for whatever has happened. Give them a pardon ahead of time.

[Robert Bigelow]

Right.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

And, and, and take the pressure off of them so that they can convey information that's been kept secret.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yeah. Because it all started with the government. That's where this all began. Maybe the private corporations have had, participated perhaps in a, in a retrieval or two, but basically it's our own government that has sanctioned this in the private sector with all these, these companies. So not all. I mean both a few, these few companies. It's not like shame on the corporate world because there always has been a partnership. They're complicit. The United States government is absolutely, totally complicit. And any kind of process of back engineering or anything to do with ets, any kind of, of contact in one way or another with ets, absolutely complicit. And so nobody can be a hypocrite on, on this, on this level, you know, so, so yeah, the gatekeepers are extremely valuable. They absolutely need to be included in any communication process.

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host (George Knapp)]

You would say for sure, you know, that the government, our government, military intelligence agencies have recovered crash disks or materials or mechanisms, machinery, advanced machinery from somewhere else. And that we've handed that over to contractors to figure it out. Yes, yes. For sure.

[Robert Bigelow]

Yes, yes. I, I am. I am sure.

[YouTube Host / Commentator]

And there you go. Robert Bigelow is sure, right? He is sure. You're saying yes, definitively yes. That private aerospace companies have alien technology, whether that be a craft or pieces or something. Right. I don't know. Again, we're going to hear about more of this in a future episode, but he's quite confident of that all, albeit he's never admitted that Bigelow Aerospace has had any of this stuff. Again, they tried to get some, but why can't Bigelow Aerospace get in the mix of it? Right? They're a big aerospace company. Why is it just, you know, Lockheed and Raytheon and, you know, where are those guys coming out and talking about it like Bigelow does for Bigelow airspace? Something seems off there. Right. And again, technology is what's confusing. As much as I want to see a UFO that can always be ambiguous or painted a different way. That's why we got to be asking to see the bodies. Alien bodies. That's going to be a lot less ambiguous and more easy to determine. Okay. These are not humans, right? But technology, I mean, yes, there could be something just so extraordinary. You're like, okay, that's. We didn't. Definitely didn't build that. But when it doesn't work, right, and it's just sitting in an aircraft and you just lift the sheet up to show one little part. You could fool a lot of people with a lot of things. Bodies. That's a lot harder. Right? And Bigelow is so confident, yet he's never seen it. Or maybe he has and he's never talked about it because he's never talked about that. So I just don't know how you can be so confident having never seen the exotic technology that's alien, Right. That you think other aerospace companies have. That's what is interesting. Now, I could see you being 99, you know, confident or this or that or you'd bet on it or whatever, but he's saying it a hundred percent absolutely true. I don't know about that. Right. That's. That worries me a little bit. But again, I don't know. You know, this is an interesting conversation. Again, I look forward to these future episodes where they can get into more details, because that's what I want to know, really. Has Robert Bigalow seen anything with his own eyes that he knows is alien technology? And how is he so confident that other aerospace companies have it? What proof has he seen that? That's the case. Right. He talked about demonstrations and you know, show of evidence earlier in the podcast. Right. In the clips I showed. So has he seen that stuff to be fully aware of that and he doesn't get asked to question that. So I hope George ask him that question in upcoming episode when they talk about more in depthly about this stuff. Right. So again, has Robert Bigelow seen anything with his own eyes? Why is he so confident? I have to wait and find out. All right, betters, don't forget to check out Psionics, the minds that summon UFOs. Vetted's very first feature length documentary is available now on our website, psionics.film. please go support it and check it out. I am currently out filming the second documentary for Vetted that will be released next summer. But go get our first one, Psionics the minds that summon UFOs. It would really help out a lot if you support the film. Thank you so much. All right, Veters, we'll see you guys on the next one. Gotta catch a flight to Vegas. All right. Every day's a gift, y'. All.

[Robert Bigelow]

Peace, Sam.