Podcast Summary: VINCE – “How To Deprogram A Liberal” (w/ Matt Van Swol) | Episode 115

Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Vince Coglianese (A)
Guests: Matt Van Swol (B), Aaron Durham (C)

Overview

In this episode, Vince Coglianese sits down with married couple Matt Van Swol and Aaron Durham, former liberals whose politics fundamentally changed after experiencing media neglect and governmental inaction during a catastrophic flood in western North Carolina. Together, they explore the deeply personal journey of questioning, breaking away from, and ultimately "deprogramming" themselves from the liberal worldview they once held dear. The conversation offers a raw, firsthand account of political awakening, the power of lived experience, the impact of genuine human connection, and the practical realities of ideological transformation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Background & The Inciting Event

• Aaron and Matt's Prior Beliefs: Aggressive liberals, deeply trusting mainstream media (CNN, NYT, NPR).
• Catalyst: Catastrophic flooding in western North Carolina caused by Hurricane Helene, September the previous year.
• Initial Outreach: Aaron, a filmmaker, reached out to former contacts at CNN, MSNBC for coverage/help – “I got zero responses back. I got crickets. Not even ‘is your family okay?’” (C, 03:57)
• Turning Point: Conservative and independent outlets (Fox News, independent journalists) helped, while liberal media ignored their plight, leading to resentment and reevaluation.
• Community Blowback: Their former liberal friends criticized them for associating with conservative outlets, regardless of the tangible aid being received.
  • “Our liberal friends in our city got really angry at Matt and I for being on these conservative outlets, even though we were actively getting help to our city. And that was the moment where I was like, I think I'm on the wrong team.” (C, 04:46)

2. Recognizing Media Bias, Echo Chambers, and Personal Awakening

• Impact of the Media Bubble: Before the flood, Matt and Aaron rarely looked outside mainstream sources. It took a crisis to force them to seek alternative viewpoints, mainly on Twitter/X.
  • “When you're in a media ecosystem, you tend to stay in it, and it's almost impossible to break out of it unless something dramatic happens that makes you go looking for other sources.” (B, 06:36)
• Social Media's Role: Sharing firsthand updates on X drove millions of views, but legacy media still ignored them, solidifying their skepticism of mainstream narratives.
• Parallel with Other Issues: Vince notes that only personal experience (e.g., being mugged) seems to break media illusions for progressives. (A, 07:52)
• Concrete Disparities: Matt draws a stark contrast between media reports ("Biden gives money to Ukraine") versus their ground reality (“I'm driving an RV to a woman and her son in 22 degree weather that are sleeping in a shed powered by propane... no, this isn't working for me.”) (B, 09:04)

3. Erosion of Trust and Political Transformation

• Direct Experience with FEMA and Authorities: Reports of incompetence, disrespect, and even harassment by FEMA workers, followed by a corrective (and controversial) intervention by the new administration.
  • “There’s stories of these young getting harassed by female workers… those were corrupt people that did really bad things to our neighbors.” (C, 10:26)
• Loss of Faith in Former Allies: Realization that left-leaning media/politicians not only failed to help but actively demonized volunteers as “militia.”
• Gradual Mindset Shift: After exploring alternate news on X and firsthand discussions with right-leaning first responders, Matt and Aaron began re-examining everything they believed.
  • “I had no idea illegal immigration was such a problem. None at all, zero clue, never heard about it before. And then all of a sudden you open up Twitter and you're like, oh my gosh, this is a serious problem…” (B, 12:27)

4. Social & Professional Consequences

• Friendship Losses: The transformation led to painful schisms with once-close friends, even those who’d shared traumatic experiences.
  • “I feel like I just got out of a cult… I can have conversations with conservatives and disagree with them. And I don’t get, you know, they don't treat me poorly... But it is not the same from the people of our past.” (C, 16:38)
• Family Dynamics: Aaron’s MAGA-supporting father serves as an example of tolerance and patience, contrasted with former reactions.
  • “I have to daily apologize to my parents... I was like crying, how dare you wear a MAGA hat in my house? And now when I see him wear a MAGA hat, I'm like, yay.” (C, 19:10)

5. Faith, Family, and Newfound Community

• The Role of Children: The urgency of parental responsibility in shaping honest, moral, and faith-filled lives grew as their kids got older.
  • “I just wanted to make sure that one. My children are being taught truth, period. Like, just the truth, and they can figure it out for themselves.” (B, 28:35)
• Return to Church: Experiences with Christian disaster relief groups led them to re-explore and ultimately embrace faith, prompted further by their daughter’s interest.
• Kids Caught in the Crossfire: Their children faced social pushback at school but joined in relief efforts and witnessed both the hardship and generosity firsthand.
  • “They have to justify that we’re telling the truth, and that's so not fair to them… they've been through a lot this year, and our goal right now is just to make it as easy on them as possible, while also... showing up and doing what's right.” (C, 30:21)

6. How to Reach and “Deprogram” Liberals

• Human Kindness Over Arguments: Matt emphasizes the limits of arguing and the power of lived example:
  • “It's probably not going to be you directly, but you can absolutely nudge someone in the right direction… The best thing you can do is be kind to someone, to show up for them when they need you.” (B, 31:28)
  • “The more you treat someone else like a human, the more likely it is that they'll view you as a human.” (A, 33:06)
• In-Person Interaction Essential: Real-world friendship and collaboration are far more persuasive than social media debates.
  • “There’s a difference between maintaining a Facebook page… and actually, when you're dealing with someone hands-on… you begin to have these very in-person human experiences that do have an effect…” (A, 34:03)
  • “Anytime there's a charity event or a parade or anything, we go because I want them to have... conversations with people that are different from them.” (C, 34:45)

7. Education and Ongoing Vigilance

• Schooling Challenges: Their children are “being taught that goodness and kindness is the liberal agenda,” so Aaron is proactively overseeing their education to ensure exposure to multiple viewpoints and avoid ideological indoctrination. (C, 35:29)

8. Light-Hearted Closing

• On the Name “Van Swol” and Fitness: Vince jokes about Matt’s name making him sound like a fitness influencer.
  • "When I first saw your name, Matt Van Swall, I thought to myself, that guy has to be a fitness influencer..." (A, 36:15)
  • “I wish I had the time... the difference between people who are super buff and people who are not is truly just, like, hours you’re willing to spend in the gym.” (B, 36:41)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Aaron: "That was just a massive turning point... we were able to just have these moments every morning, drinking coffee with our kiddos and going, like, what the heck is happening?" (C, 05:33)
• Matt: “For us, and for me, that moment was getting on Twitter [X]... I saw that there was very little to no media coverage about what was happening on the ground where I lived...” (B, 06:39)
• Aaron: "I feel like I just got out of a cult." (C, 16:38)
• Matt (on advice): "The best thing you can do is just to have the conversation... don’t demonize... But the best thing you can do is be kind to someone to show up for them when they need you." (B, 31:28)
• Vince: “The more you treat someone else like a human, the more likely it is that they’ll view you as a human.” (A, 33:06)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 03:24 – Matt & Aaron’s backgrounds and the Helene storm as the catalyst.
• 04:35 – Breakdown of liberal networks offering no support and conservative outlets stepping in.
• 06:30–07:52 – Realization of media echo chambers and the role of firsthand reporting on X.
• 09:21 – Ground truth vs. media narrative: Direct experience vs. coverage.
• 12:10–16:38 – Gradual inventory of other political issues and impact on social ties.
• 16:31–19:43 – Losing friendships and reflection on treatment of conservative family.
• 22:40 – Family reconciliation and the role of Aaron’s parents.
• 23:36–24:43 – Navigating the transition as a couple, moments leading up to full transformation.
• 26:09–30:21 – Parenting, faith, and their children’s experiences during and after the storm.
• 31:20–35:06 – Guidance for “deprogramming” liberals, importance of kindness and in-person interaction.
• 36:15–37:12 – Light-hearted closing, “Van Swol” name jokes.

Tone

The discussion is candid, self-critical, and honest, woven with moments of emotional vulnerability and humor. Vince maintains his signature directness while showing empathy. Matt and Aaron are self-reflective, open about regrets, and eager to share both the pain and hope of their transformation.

Conclusion

This episode of VINCE serves as both a deeply personal testimonial and a practical guide for those hoping to bridge America’s current ideological chasm. Through the story of Matt and Aaron, listeners are offered hope that transformation is possible—even in a polarized age—but that it is fostered by direct experience, kindness, and compassionate engagement, rather than confrontation.