A (3:06)

Yeah. So I'll just jump right into it. Is that fine?

B (3:09)

Yeah.

A (3:10)

Yeah. So unconventional upbringing, I guess you could say, to say the least. Both my parents were and are Christians. Still. Still married, I think it was. It's 60 years this year, so a long time. But before that, the story really starts and real fast. My dad was a Christian, born again. Got really cute. Curious about what else is out there. Fed the curiosities into a dark spiral, got into Satanism full fledged. Through the Satanic church. Anton Lavey worshiped Satan like a Christian would. The Lord for two years, was yanked back out of it by God. And then I was raised in a home after that where he, God, used him to build a ministry to free thousands of people all around the world from demons and spirits. So essentially I grew up in a home watching exorcisms. And it became as common as scrambling eggs or taking a shower.

B (4:17)

Wow. So we've got a lot to break down there. How did your dad get into the Church of Satan? You know, was he. You said that he was influenced by Anton lavey. How did that work? I mean, he's a Christian man. And how do you watch a video about Satan and then say, okay, I'm all in. How does that work?

A (4:37)

It's a great question. I think it's real important to talk about in, in this conversation that those type of things rarely happen at once. It's a drip campaign by the spirits. And what they will do is they will latch onto a weakness of someone and dig in and drive that through. So his curiosity with the darkness started when he was young. Just kind of a fascination with the supernatural Again, like I said, he became a Christian at a young age. He recounts his experience. He knows the feeling that he got when he said, jesus, I want you into my heart. He felt that he felt the peace that when you asked him, in your heart, it occupies your body and your soul. But he was really focused on the feeling of being a Christian. And over the years, he became more and more fascinated by the sensation and wanting to be a part of finding that feeling again. And so he started to explore the other side. Ouija boards, seances, comic books, you know, just. He. Like, he'd feed the curiosity. And that's how Satan works. Satan will. He will slip in to the cracks that we allow him into and then expose that and grow that. So over time, again, he was a believer, but he kept searching for something else. He'd go to church camps and rededicate his life to Christ. He was very involved in college and Christian groups and Christian quartets and Bible studies, etc. Then he met my mom. They got married. But again, like, the curiosity was. Was growing and expounding in his soul and in his mind and in his imagination of what else could be there. I'll pause there if you have any questions.

B (6:41)

Yeah. So did anything. How old were you when your dad was in these two years of Satanism? Did anything start to change around the house? His behavior, or. Were you too young and this was something your mom was dealing with?

A (6:56)

I was too young to remember that part. I just. It was all my mom. I mean, my mom was dealing with that. And oddly enough, my dad kept his Satanism a secret. So she never knew that he was into what he was into. She just knew that he was becoming a different man entirely. And she married. So I don't, like, remember his encounters with him. Both my parents are teachers. So, for example, it'd get really bad in the summer when they were both off, and my mom would take me back to Minnesota and Wisconsin, where they were both from, for the summer. You know, for her to escape and then to take me out of it. And that's when my dad would get really involved because it was just him alone at night.

B (7:37)

Right.

A (7:38)

And he didn't get involved ever in a Satanic church because he wanted the experience of his spiritual journey. And this sounds weird, but he wanted it to be pure. So he just did the communion with Satan himself, like a Christian would the Holy Spirit.

B (7:55)

Interesting. Okay, so he wasn't involved in the Church of Satan, but he was inspired by Anton lavey.

A (8:03)

So let me go back to that story. So what happened? Like I said, the spirits build and build and build. And one night he was in his home, walking down the hallway, and he heard a voice say, go and start the television. He's like, well, that's weird. Why would I go start the television? And again, his journey was pretty far down the road because just before that, he'd done a comparative religions study of all the religions around the world and saw a good and saw bad. So his mind was really open to a lot of stuff. So he went after. After he heard the voice, turned on the television, and right when he turned it on was a documentary on Anton lavey, the satanic church. And we're from Southern California. I mean, I am originally, my parents moved there from Minnesota, but that's where we lived. And they were doing a series of specials in LA and Hollywood of what is really kind of occupying the town. There was one on drugs, There was one on, like, on porn, on rock, and then on the occult. And he happened to turn on the one where they were documenting the rise of the occult. And that's when they had. They had brought a camera crew down to Anton lavey's church in San Francisco and filmed an actual service. So when he turned it on, he saw Anton lavey in a church service to Satan with an audience doing what a pastor would do in an evangelical church. Obviously completely flipped in the script, right? But he was so fascinated by the devotion that he saw Anton lavey giving to Satan. And he had always heard about Satan in the church from the Bible, and. But it was never really discussed at any depth of any level. Just, the devil's there and beware of the devil. But all of a sudden he turned on the TV and again, remember, his mind and his spirit were completely open to whatever. And here's this man praying to Satan. And he started mocking it at first, kind of like, come on, really, this is wild. This is not true. But he was very fascinated by the intensity of the worship. And then at one point, he saw Anton lavey raise his hands and. And pray to Satan. And like he always says, with as much faith that he'd seen, like a Billy Graham pray to God, right? And he was fascinated and he was hooked by that experience of Anton Lavey worshiping Satan. @ that moment in his living room while watching the documentary, he said, satan, if you're real, I want you in my life. God, I don't want any part of you anymore. I want you out, Satan. I want you to come in and. And fill my life with your power. Pause there.

B (10:54)

And so did he start to feel that power? Because I've. I've seen the story about the Blue lady, which is a. An art piece that your dad was working on after he gave himself to Satan. So explain what kind of powers he received after, you know, committing himself. Yeah.

A (11:17)

So in the moment, he said he felt an overwhelming sensation of fear and of spiritual kind of infusion. And that's where, you know, because it was so direct, that's when the demons actually entered him. So what he was feeling was the entrance of spirits into his life because of the commitment he made to Satan. So he felt a sensation that he was looking for for so long, this kind of physical, spiritual, imaginative thing in his body that was overwhelming. But he said what was interesting is that he felt an extreme sense of rage and hate towards God, but specifically the person of Jesus at that moment. So he was, he was excited by the experience, like, you know, a radical conversion experience. But. But you asked about the power that he felt, which is what he was seeking. He felt it in the moment. But he went to bed and he woke up that next morning hoping to feel that same thing. And it was nothing. Like, he felt a void of like, oh great, this is just another, another gimmick, another thing I tried that didn't work. And so that's when he started to chase that experience and see what was real. I'll pause there.

B (12:38)

So then he, he started painting. And what happened with the Blue Lady Painter?

A (12:45)

So he was a schoolteacher by trade. He taught art and photography. So he was a painter by hobby and by passion. So he'd paint all the time. As his experience in his Satanism grew, like I said, that next morning he was very discouraged, but he kept pursuing. And Satan would feed him feelings and sensations or words from other people. For example, like I said, he was a teacher and his students would start to bring him random books. I mean, they had no idea what he was going through, but they would bring him random books on the occult or on, on witchcraft or whatever.

B (13:28)

And it turns out, isn't that uncharacteristic for children to have books of the occult?

A (13:34)

Pretty much. But it turns out a lot of the students were third and fourth generation witches. Their parents were very involved in the occult, so that stuff for them was normal. And they thought because he's an art guy, that they would like kind of this, these books and stuff on the occult. And they had no clue, but Satan did. Satan knew that my dad needed breadcrumbs and Satan knew that my dad needed it, like to be fed. So he's like, oh, this is interesting. He read through this and read through that. Fast forward to when his relationship, it sounds odd to say still, but his, his relationship with Satan was starting to grow. He said, I want more. I need more. I want more. More power, more sensation. I want to feel the supernatural more. I want to feel the power. And he said randomly again. One night, he was at home in the kitchen, and his studio was in the garage. And he told my mom, he's like, look, I'm going to go in the garage. I'm going to close the door, keep Rick inside. You stay inside. Don't open the door. Don't bother me. I want to paint. And he felt just this incredible draw. Goes to the studio, takes out the canvas, takes out a palette of paint. And he said as soon as the brush hit the paint and the paint hit the canvas and started to paint, he said something came through him and painted the most beautiful thing he's ever done. And that was called the Blue Lady. And the Blue lady was an image of his guiding demon. Very ethereal, very feminine. But he said it was something that it was so amazing and so drawing to his soul again. He felt the whole time it was not him. He was being something was painting through him. And when he got done with the painting, he had to bow down to it, and he had to essentially worship it like a God and say, I worship you. And that Blue lady, the painting of the blue. Of the Blue lady, became his guiding spirit all the rest of his time.

B (15:37)

Wow. So, you know, people think of the devil with, you know, horns and a pitchfork, or they think of demons as being ugly. But your dad's guiding demon was this beautiful woman, which. So your mom.

A (15:55)

Yeah.

B (15:55)

Is, you know, unknowingly sleeping next to your dad, not knowing that he was dabbling in the occult or. Or anything dark at this point? I mean, when did she find out that something was a mission? Was she ever scared for her life? Did she ever feel threatened around your dad during this time?

A (16:16)

I mean, my dad has always been and is still now, very loving, kind, and gentle as a teacher. The students loved my dad. He was the big, you know, teddy bear on campus and very popular. His heart was always soft. That's what my mom fell for. He was loved like that. In college, the same thing. But when he got into Satanism, that's what change she noticed. Start to morph and change into something else again. She didn't know what he was doing, how deep the darkness was around him, but she felt him literally start to change, become someone that she didn't recognize. That's why, like I said at the beginning, over the summer, she'd leave and take me back to Minnesota. Because the pressure was so dark on her. I mean, my dad, again, also my mom, she's very gentle in spirit. Her dad was very deep in the faith, but very quiet and pure and simple. And so she was always very, very the same way as an adult. And so all that she knew to do was to pray. But she was very confused. Like, I've talked to her a bunch about this, and she was heartbroken, too, because it got worse and worse and worse. And the man that she had loved and had married was starting to become a monster. But she had no idea about the occult, about Satanism, about how real that stuff was. I mean, again, she'd heard about it growing up in church, about the devil and the serpent in Genesis 3 and job with, you know, with the question of God to destroy Job. And so those things were available in her mindset intellectually. But realistically, to go, you know, to translate that into, you know, my husband's a Satanist. Couldn't do it, right?

B (18:04)

It wasn't like he was sacrificing goats or something in the backyard. It was a little more cats everywhere, under the radar. But something struck me in this conversation where he kind of honed his powers when his wife. I'm talking about your dad, when his wife and his son were away. Because in the garage, that's when he painted the most beautiful thing he's ever painted. And when you were away for the summer, that's when he really got dark. So it seemed like you and your mom were kind of this antidote.

A (18:40)

She. The only thing my mom ever did physically, during that entire time was to take her Bible that she read and place it by his bed stand every single night. And she'd pray for him, obviously endlessly. But she never preached at him, never questioned him, but she was just steadfast in her faith. But she did know that it was so dark that we had to get out of there sometimes. And so what my dad did when he'd come home, he'd close the door, lock the front door. He'd pull the shades and hold his hands up high and worship Satan. And that's when he would be. Become closer and closer to the fire, I guess you could say of. Of Satan's hell.

B (19:27)

So how did your dad turn the corner and choose Jesus Christ again instead of Satan?

A (19:34)

Yeah, it's a long story. A lot of detail in the book, but it's. But it's a pretty. I love this part of the story because it shows God's ultimate power, no matter what's going on. So my dad did know that in order to really, like, dive into the epicenter of Satan's power, he had to have my mom out of his life because she was the last stand. She was the last representation of Jesus in the home of Christ on the cross. I mean, she was it. So she had to go. And so he. He was always trying to force her out, I think, in his head, because he. He just became really gruff and very aggressive and verbal. But one. One day, it was a Sunday, she was going to church, and he said, yeah, just go. Just leave. And he wanted to have that day be the break. And so what he did is he started to. He got in a trance. And again, this is going to sound weird, but this is what happened. He got into trance and started to materialize a spirit that very much looked like the Blue lady. So that when she came home and saw it, because it was such a physical manifestation of something real, the spirit looked like a person. When she came home from church to see this, she'd be like, okay, that's enough. I'm done. I'm out. Well, while he was in this trance, she called from church, and the phone call broke the trance. And she said, look, I want to go to lunch with my friends. Is that okay? And of course, he got furious because he thought this would be the break. Slammed the phone down, yelled at her, slammed the phone down, took the Bible that she always placed by his bed stand and slammed it against the wall and started to curse and yell at God.

B (21:23)

Wow.

A (21:24)

And the vehemence, the hatred, he said, that came from him towards the person of Jesus specifically was almost overwhelming. And he was in a rage. And he said in a moment, in an instant, he felt something come in the room. And he said he recognized the peace and the power that came in the room because it's the same peace that he felt when he was a kid when he accepted Jesus and he knew that it was God. And he said, what do you want, God? And God simply said, I want you back. And he's like, you know, it was that moment where he's like, well, I don't know what to do. This. This is weird. I don't. You know, so fast forward, as he was wrestling with that, he picked up the Bible that he'd thrown against the wall that my mom had always put on the bed stand and just started reading Psalms in Proverbs. And he read all the way through Psalms and all the way through Proverbs. But while reading Psalms, which is what I love, my dad was always Hungry after God. But he went through a bunch of church splits and saw a lot of hypocrisy of other Christians and really started looking at man and then God. So man's actions became his stumbling block. You know, the hypocrisy that so many people get stuck on, and rightly so of you say you're a Christian, but you do this and you're a church, and this is how you act. So he was very disillusioned by that. And also the spirits used that to feed his desire for the supernatural. Like, see, this is church. This is God. This is a joke. They're jokes. But when he was reading psalms for the first time, he saw David, honestly, be a human and say, God, I'm frustrated with you. Where are you in this? Why aren't you here? But every psalm would end with, but yet God, I will praise you. Yet, God, I love you. And so he saw a person wrestle with God out loud in prayer, but I'll always come back to you. But God, I trust you. And he realized that he'd always gone through man to see what God was about. When he was reading psalms and in the. And then in Proverbs, which is all the wisdom of God, he started to see God in a light that he hadn't seen him before on a very personal level. And that started the transformation.

B (23:41)

Wow. So was your dad possessed by a demon at this time?

A (23:46)

12.

B (23:47)

12. So then how did he become delivered of. Of those demons?

A (23:53)

This is the other part of the. Of the crazy story, the transformation. So that afternoon when my mom came home from church, he met her at the door. And she was always used to him meeting at the door, either like in a rage or in a, you know, in anger or yelling at something. But he met her at the door and said, something happened with me and God today, and I don't know what's going to happen this evening, but I'm going to need your help, and I need to pray. And she thought, I wonder, you know, I wonder if this is sincere. Is this really the man that I once married and knew? And he said, I don't know what's going to happen, but I need you to pray. Later that night, they were in bed, and he could feel. He said he felt a horrible pain in his stomach, kind of like, I mean, like an acid, I guess, burning your gut. But he felt it was so overwhelming and so bad. He's like, God, either heal me from this or take me because I can't handle the pain. And. And that's when he felt God say, I need you to call these spirits out of your body and be rid of the demons. He says, well, God, I don't. I don't know how to do that. I've never done that. Do I need to call an exorcist? And. And he heard, felt God say, I am the exorcist. Call on me. So he said, okay, God, tell me what to do. He said, I want you to name the spirits. And he said, how do I name. How do I name the spirits? I don't know what the spirits are, Right? And then God said, I will bring them to you. And slowly, one by one, he brought up the names of the spirit, like fear, anger, lust, rage, et cetera, et cetera. And one by one, he named that spirit. Let's say it's fear. And he remembered from growing up some missionaries that he had seen at church and had come to his house to visit talked about in prayer, if you use the name of Jesus, it invokes a power over the spiritual. So he. So he prayed. He said, in the name the blood of Jesus Christ, I rebuke you, spirit of fire, fear. And he said when he said that, that pain in his stomach that he was talking about, he said, I call you out in the name of the blood of Jesus Christ. He said he felt that. That pain go from his stomach up to his chest to his throat and out of his mouth like knives being ripped from his insides. And that happened 12 times. So. And every. Every different name, the spirit was a spirit. So he was expelled from 12 demons. And that's what started him on the trajectory later in life, to help other people be freed because he. He knew how to do it, because he. Because God helped him do it to himself. That's where he started to learn.

B (26:46)

So then when did your dad start doing this and helping other people? How did people know that your dad knew how to do this?

A (26:54)

Yeah, this is way before social media, way before the Internet, you know, so there's no, like, hashtag or at, you know, Dave Hansen. We didn't hang a shingle at the front door that said exorcisms here. But other people did start to hear a story at our church, some of our friends. And so, like, he'd be asked to come to speak at a church or a Bible study or a youth group. And literally, the story, because it was so wild and there's so much more to tell, got out, and people would spread the news, I guess, about this guy, and they call him the guy who deals with Demons. And so he started to get phone calls. Hey, are you. Are you the guy that deals with demons? I think I have something in me. I need some help. Sometimes they'd show up at our front door and say, hey, like, are you the guy who deals with demons? I need help. And so it just started to happen by word of mouth. Someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew someone who, who knew about my dad would say, hey, I've got this guy. You should call him. Hey, you're struggling with this thing. I think you should call him. So he come home from like teaching junior hires all day. And for the first, you know, probably 10 or 20 years, my mom and I would have to stand in line for his attention because he was so busy every day after school dealing with people either on the phone or in our living room. And that's why I said back at the start of my story, when growing up, what I remember about my dad is God using him to free person after person after person from demons. Whether we would hear the scream of someone in the back room as a demon was released, whether it was in the living room where we watched it, you know, happen. But it was over and over and over again. So that experience, seeing the power of God wrestle demons and pull them out of people, made scripture for me so much more real because I saw God's victory on the cross be evidenced as people were freed again and again and again and again.

B (28:59)

It's an incredible testimony. And so how old were you at this point when your dad was doing this? Sort of as like a side hustle, if you will. And when did you start? Did you ever witness him doing this in the house? You said that he was doing it kind of in the back room. But like, when was the first exorcism that you remember seeing?

A (29:22)

Yeah. So the funny thing is, is it. It's. And this sounds, again, I keep saying it sounds weird, but it was.

B (29:28)

Well, this whole thing is going to sound weird to most people, but that's okay.

A (29:32)

So I don't ever, like, remember the first one because it was always so common. I mean, I was young. I would say it probably started when I was three or four. So obviously I'm not going to remember remember that far back. But all I know growing up is people coming to our house and doing that. Like, I will say, I think the first one that really freaked me out. And again, it happened so much, I was never really afraid because it was very common. But one that did stand out, I was probably 14 or 15 years old. I think 15, getting my permit. And my dad said, hey, I've got. I've got. I've got a heavy one, I think, and would you like to come and pray with me and be a part of it? Nick and I had been a part of him in the home, in the living room, I prayed with him. But this one, it was different. It was a pastor, actually, who had been filled with a bunch of spirits through actions of his own, and someone, again, who had heard of my dad. They'd called churches from Los Angeles approximately all the way down or to where we were going to church, asking for help. And she couldn't find any church that would be willing to meet and help with this guy who was messed up. So we get there to an apartment. Guy was big to begin with, as far as tall, just tall, broad shoulders, big dude. And there's a lot to tell in the story, but I'll fast forward. We were sitting down and the first demon started to manifest in him. And I saw it start to come again. When I say that, I mean, I can see physically when things start to change in the person, because when a person is being freed from the spirits, like you opened up with this. And like in Hollywood, laws of nature do bend in exorcisms. I mean, people's faces change. Sometimes bodies grow, sometimes bodies will shrink. They'll go down on the ground, act like a dog, all kinds of crazy stuff. But you can see it start to boil. And this one particularly, it was a spirit of rage initially. And the spear started to manifest. And all of a sudden he shot up like he was sitting on the edge of the. His bed. My dad was in a chair and I was in a chair. And so we were facing him as he was. He was sitting on the edge of the bed, and he jumped up out of the edge of the bed. He ripped like a clock out of the wall and a lamp and held it over my dad's head like he was going to. Like he was going to crush my dad. I mean, crush his head. Of course, I'm 14 or 15, watching this guy who's big to begin with, holding the stuff over my dad's head, knowing exactly what the intent was, freaking out. And I felt God just say, just pray, I'm here. So I prayed, watched my dad. He was very calm because he's been through this so many times, very calm. And he knew that God would not allow anything that God won't allow. That's just the rule. And the guy took the lamp and the clock and just as he was about to throw it at my dad, threw it against the sidewall, and the lamp shattered and the clock shattered. So it was physically intense. And sat back down. His breathing calmed. And then later, in the same deliverance, he shot up out of the bed again. He walked around the other side, and his breathing was just accelerating real deep, real long, real loud. And he put his hands on either side of a chest of drawers that were by the window. And as his breathing accelerated, his body started to expand. And, I mean, like, it grew. It grew in height and it grew in width. Kind of like the Incredible Hulk, you know, like. Like in Marvel. Not that extreme. But he was physically changing in front of me in size and stature. And so, you know, I knew that spirit was enraged because we were there to free him and let me back up to, like, these exorcisms. The person has to want to be freed. It's not like we can just walk into someone's room who someone thinks might have some spirits, right? And we have any authority, because we don't. My dad and I don't. It's all through Jesus, and only through Jesus that we have that authority to cast out the spirits because of him, through us. So back to the guy. He was holding this chest of drawers, expanding in height. I really felt the intensity of evil. Obviously, I was physically scared because it was a physical manifestation. But then I looked. There was a window off to the side that I looked out the window, and I saw this. I didn't see eyes, but I saw this heavy, heavy, dark, ominous form just hovering outside the window, staring at us. And I felt in my. My skin and my soul this rage and hatred towards my dad and I, specifically because we were. God was using us to help this guy be free. And just as he started to lift up this chest of drawers and we were praying, my dad was praying, I was praying quietly. The spirit calmed back down because my dad was saying, in the name of the blood of Jesus Christ, I rebuke you. Put it back down. His breathing calmed down. His body came back to size, came and sat down in the bed, and then he was freed from a bunch of demons again. I'm fast forwarding the story. That's probably three, four hours of time. There are multiple, like, hardcore manifestations like that of the spirit, and that. That's the one, I think, that shook me the most as a kid because it was such a physical change experience and change. And I really felt fear. But I watched my dad the whole time. Obviously, because he's my dad, he's always. He is still. He's my hero. I mean, I've watched him. We're super close. I'm just so amazed by what God does through him and with him and his willingness to do it over and over. You know, over four decades he's been doing this. But I watched him, and he was at utter peace and calm. Later, we talked about it in the car and. And he said that was the first time that he was scared because he was scared for me with him in the room.

B (36:02)

Yeah, I feel like most exorcists probably. It's. This isn't like a bring your kid to work day kind of a job. It's not like an accountant or something where you could just sit and, you know, you're sitting at the desk and you're playing with scissors or something. This is really dangerous. When you were talking about this person physically manifesting larger, growing. When the demon is released from them or these spirits are released from them, do they need medical attention after? I mean, it seems like if your body grows or shrinks, you might have cuts or you might have at least muscle. I mean, I pull a muscle just getting out of bed in the morning. I can't imagine something like this. And so if that's the case, how is that treated? Do you go to a hospital and just say, you know, I fell down the stairs?

A (36:56)

It's a great question, actually. I've never been asked that before. After every time we've dealt with someone, they have not had an injury that we know of, they are physically exhausted, spiritually exhausted. But we've never seen in an exorcism where someone gets hurt or calls us back afterwards. Man, my back is really sore. What happened? And, yeah, we saw a monster come out of your back. And, you know, it's never. It's never been. They've never said, you know, a week or two later or a day later, hey, I'm hurt.

B (37:30)

Yeah.

A (37:30)

You know, and I don't. I'm. You know, I'm not sure how that works, but I've seen enough of them. Now, I do know sometimes that, you know, there are stories where they will. Like, the demons will, you know, like, will claw you. Not ones in you, but sometimes ones outside of you. Like, we've dealt with people where we've seen bite marks on their arms, or we've seen scratches on their arms or on their shoulders, or they'll talk about a demon that will jump on their chest at night or in the day. Sometimes they can't move and they can't breathe and their chest is sore the next day. We've heard a lot of those. But the exorcisms that we have done, my dad has done, have never experienced an injury, I guess you could say.

B (38:14)

When you were talking about feeling that anger in the room, did you ever experience anything like a temperature drop or the smell of soul in the presence of a demonic entity? Because these are things, you know, I. I'm a Christian and I like Halloween and I'm a Christian and I watch scary movies. I know I'm not supposed to, but these are the things that Hollywood tells us. Is there any truth to that?

A (38:36)

Yeah. So my dad did deal with someone one time. Um, he was a professor, like university professor. And he again heard about my dad through someone of someone of someone. And he was expelled from several demons. And again, like I said, at the back of the house when I was young, everything was done in the living room because that's all that we had. But the exorcisms were happening so much that his mom and dad helped to build kind of an office in the back of den because they knew they needed to get this out of. In front of me all the time, essentially. And so this one was done in that. In that back room, you know, and we walked back afterwards to see how it went. And the stench that was in the room was horrendous. And it smelled like sulfur. And so we've. You know, that was the one time that I was literally overwhelmed by the smell. Like. Like I've smelt it before, like in bits, when someone will come in or the demon starts to manifest. But that was the first one that I just permeated the room. But the guy was completely freed from electron spirits. And was the other part you asked? Sorry, I forgot. Like the sulfur and.

B (39:46)

Yeah, sulfur and a temperature drop.

A (39:48)

Oh, yeah, yeah. So back to my dad's story. When he was being expelled from the 12 demons, my mom was in bed again, just freaking out, but praying. The more intense the battle got, the colder the house became. And my mom would get up out of bed, crank up the heat, and the house would get even colder. So. And that's. And when he was in the throes of Satanism himself, when he. Like in the summer when they'd. When he closed the door and closed the shades and just start to worship, the house would get icy, icy cold, he said, every single time. And he was really, really into it.

B (40:23)

Wow. So I'm Catholic, and maybe this is again, like a pop culture thing, but it, to me, it always Seemed like exorcisms were synonymous with the Catholic Church. But I also watched the Conjuring movie series, and that kind of centers around Ed and Lorraine Warren. And Ed Warren was the first exorcist I had ever heard of that was recognized by the Catholic Church. He wasn't a priest, but he was able to do that. So this is a misconception. Misconception. You don't need to be a priest to be an exorcist.

A (41:03)

That's a fine line right there. It's a really good question. I mean, the Catholic Church is very studied in exorcisms. I mean, they go through extensive schooling and training, and they have kind of, you know, they're an understudy to a mentor, and individuals are picked for that. It's very specific. All I can speak to, in our experience, it was. It was different. My dad was a student because he was in it. He was possessed, and he worshiped Satan for those two years, and then God brought him out of it, and God taught him how to do an exorcism on himself by calling on God. There's a lot of people that get, you know, it's a fascinating topic. And I've gotten, you know, after some of these podcasts, I get an email or, you know, people talk to my dad, man, this is awesome. I want to be an exorcist. This is crazy, God. You know, I'm like, whoa, this is, you know, this is not something that people should tamper with. And so when I tell this story, there is a lot of, like, supernatural and fascinating topics, and I'm fascinated by them myself. But I know that God called my dad specifically to this, and he's been, you know, trained technically over, you know, four decades of performing exorcisms. But it is not to be trifled with. And if I could tell, just like, I think you had a question, but let me. Let me pause there, because there's no. So I didn't want to bring this in my home. I've married with three girls. I didn't want to tell them my story for years because of what I experienced as a kid. You know, it's heavy. It's dark. You know, my home, a lot of the times would have people walking up and, I mean, spirits walking up and down the hallways at night that I would hear. There'd be voices in the kitchen that would be having conversations. There would be, you know, doors opening and closing. There would be scratches on the wall. There'd be, you know, microwaves starting and stopping. So There was this constant realization of the spirits that would come to our house.

B (43:14)

Were you afraid?

A (43:16)

I was. You know, there were moments where I were, you know, like, man, I'm either I'm really tired of this or what's going on. But I knew it was the spirits because what they would do often is when my dad was either speaking at a Bible study or at a church or helping someone be freed from a demon, they would come and attack me at the house, knowing that if they're losing there, maybe they can come and, you know, attack me at home and cause other damage. Wow.

B (43:47)

So you don't want to bring that home to your family? Of course.

A (43:49)

Correct. Yeah. So I didn't want my girls to know the story. I didn't want to really focus on it. And I really struggled with, you know, once I got in corporate life and, you know, looking for, like, the next level up in the ladder on title and money and pay, it's like I couldn't marry my radical story. The upbringing that I had and knew of this intense battle of dark and life, dark and light to. How does that work with me at work? Like, I can't really go, hey, I see dead people. Can we talk? You know, it's not like, you know, so, like, I didn't see the relevance for me. Not that I ever didn't think it wasn't true, but I couldn't fit what I knew into my corporate life, and I didn't want to bring it into my home because I didn't want it to impact my kids adversely. But a few years ago, my daughter went away to college and she was really starting to discover her own faith, my oldest daughter. And I wanted her to understand the heritage of faith that she did come from and that the battle is real and that my dad is being used by God still to do some pretty amazing things for the kingdom. I said, hey, I want to tell you a story at some point about, about your grandpa, about my dad, and about what I know. She's like, well, okay, great, tell me the story. I'm like, well, not yet. And so, you know, Fine's like, dad, are you going to tell me the story? So I told her the story, high level. She dodged, got like enthralled with the story. Totally fascinating. My middle daughter did as well. And so I started to talk to them more about that. And then that's when my oldest daughter, who was involved with ICOTPUSA and was following Alex Clark, her podcast, said, dad, you've got to be on this podcast. I'm like, ah, that. Whoa, that's really going to open up everything.

B (45:41)

And now you're on a bunch of podcasts talking about it.

A (45:44)

Exactly. So, yeah, so it's something that I don't deny now. It's an absolute. It has a place in my life for sure now. I know that I'm called to do it, but it took a long time to realize, okay, God, I know it's real, but what do you want with that from me? Yeah, so.

B (46:07)

Well, you're definitely making a lot of people aware of the demonic, but also the power of good. And I think the more people who know about the power of prayer and the power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the better. So I think the more podcasts you can do, I mean, say yes, because this is important. But you. You brought up Turning Point usa, and I don't have too much time here left, but I did want to get your take on, you know, Charlie Kirk's assassination. And it seems like our society is so demonic, whether it's that political assassination or it's church shootings or school shootings or, you know, any other kind of crime. But then it's also the reaction to a horrific death like Charlie's, where people are now mocking the assassination just out in the open. I mean, they're mocking the. They're, you know, gesturing like a gun in a neck and things like that. And it just seems like our society is so demonic. And I don't want to necessarily call these people evil, but I feel like there are evil forces at work in some of these people.

A (47:22)

Yeah, I think one of the things that. One of the reasons why I want to talk about this more now than I ever have is I feel like the escalation of evil in the last probably five years has risen to a place I had never seen before. And why I find that fascinating is that a lot of the stuff that you are seeing, these, you know, the, you know, someone holding a finger to the neck and saying, pooh, he's dead. You know, that's not someone just being angry. That's a manifestation, in my experience, in my belief and what I've seen in the Bible, of a demon celebrating the death of a Christian and the death of a voice that spoke for the Lord publicly again and again and again. Now, obviously, his platform was through conversation of politics, but he always. I say always. I know that's not always the right word, but he brought back his message to the person of the cross all the time, and he brought a lot of, you Know, afterwards, if you saw the response, the positive response of Charlie is how many people started going to the church for the first time. Yeah. Or reading their Bible for the first time. And so his impact from a spiritual sense, positively was palpable. And I know from my experience that the demonic hates that. And they are furious by the celebration of the cross because that's their ultimate demise. And if they can take topics in culture and twist them and make them lies and then make them into policy or conversations, they win. And that's a manifestation that I've seen again, as a kid. I saw a lot of what I'm seeing on. On a global stage at our house, being manifested through exorcisms. The evil, the darkness, the stuff you go, you did what? And you heard what? And a lot of the stories, all, obviously, circumstances are different, but a lot of the stuff I saw in my home, private, growing up, where people are freed individually, I'm seeing that evidence of evil on the global stage in the culture. And so this incident with Charlie, I think, is a good, bad example of how deep Satan's gotten within our culture. And a lot of it is, again, because social media spreads it so quick, so fast and so readily. And you have so many profiles and personalities that I think, and this is my opinion, that Satan can use to spread his message. I mean, it says in Ephesians, we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the prince and palace, the prince and principalities of the air. And scripture says that Satan is the prince of the air, this earth, this world. He. He has authority, not all authority, but he does have authority to influence. And I think there's a lot of evidence to where it's coming out on the stage in public. Yeah.

B (50:24)

And I mean, it's. Obviously, we see this a lot in, you know, pop culture, in lyrics or music videos, TV shows, movies, everything. And when we talked about your dad getting these artistic abilities through Satan. Now it seems more likely that, you know, because you hear about celebrities selling their soul for fame and money and power, but that seems, you know, more likely now. And that's something that, you know, your family has experienced. Do you think that there are people in Hollywood that are dabbling in the occult in order to gain fame and notoriety?

A (51:05)

100%. 100%. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't have the names and the dates and the actual occurrences of that's happening, but I, you know, growing up, my dad, you know, the spirit world is no respecter of gender or economic status or job, but they do like to take people that have more influence over others to use them, to drive their influence. And my dad did deal with people in professional sports, in Hollywood, in music that were very close to what you just talked about. And there is an aspect where, just like my dad, my dad did it. And he knew the closer he got to giving things to Satan, the more power he would get. The one thing he wouldn't give to Satan was me and my mom. But Satan wanted me. And Satan kept asking him, give me your son, give me your wife, and I will give you all the power that you need in this world. So he knew that my dad wanted power, but something in my dad knew that I wasn't and my mom wasn't his to give. That's because we were bought by the blood of Christ. But Satan does want that. And again, if I can just use my dad's story. Yeah, it's clinical to what you just talked about. And I know that happened with him. And I know he dealt with a lot of people the same way, where they would be asked to give their kids, or they were kids that were given in occult practices that their parents used to get them filled with power. So, yes, 100%, it's out there. It's all over the place. And there is. I mean, Satan did it with Eve in the garden. God said, don't do this, and you'll be really smart. God said, don't take this fruit because you won't die. God said, just don't worry about that. But if you do partake of this, you will get X, you will get Y, you will become more. And that's the lure that Satan gives you will become more. God says, become the least of these, then you'll see me. Satan says, no, become the greatest of these and I will give you more. So my dad went through that personally and gave himself for the temptation of power, for more. But Satan wanted more and more. And you hear these stories in Hollywood and in politics in the realms of power, where they give things and they make a commitment. And of course, it comes out in the media and they mock it. Oh, no. Yeah, we, you know, it's a big skit on SNL or whatever. Actually, they just did a big skit on SNL about that very thing. But I've seen it real. I've seen it happen. I've seen people confess to that stuff in our living room. And it's, it's, it's there, you know.

B (54:02)

Now I have more questions, so I'm going to keep you. You You've seen demons?

A (54:10)

Yeah.

B (54:10)

You've seen angels.

A (54:12)

Yep.

B (54:13)

What else exists? Because I'm a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, and when we talk about, you know, celebrities and they're dabbling in the occult and I think about, you know, child sacrifice and things like that, it all seems like. I mean, we know that angels and demons are real. We know that giants are real. Like, some of these things are biblical. Are aliens real? Is Bigfoot real? Are skinwalkers real? Are ghosts real? Or do you think people might just be seeing demons manifesting in other ways?

A (54:49)

So I'm not an expert in any of that, but I am pretty well versed in the demonic, and I know that they will masquerade as anything to distract us from reality. And what I know is that angels and demons are real, period. And I've seen demons manifest in other things, in forms of other things, in shapes of other things to draw someone in or to make someone afraid. Ghosts. From what I've experienced and what I believe and know are demons, there's, you know, theory that. That aliens are. Some say it's the government, you know, trying to freak out other people. That's a whole other conspiracy. But, you know, I've seen demons that look like aliens, meaning the demons that I've seen in people, or sometimes I see them with my naked eye walking around. And a lot of times those demons look like the images that people portray as aliens. Exactly.

B (55:58)

The plot thickens.

A (55:59)

Yeah. So in my experience, Satan always tries to camouflage what is true into something else. So he will take our fascination with, you know, are they. Are they skinwalkers? Are they. In my experience, they're demons playing to a theme that culture or. Or people want to accelerate, and they use that as an avenue to accelerate the distraction away from the truth. That makes sense.

B (56:28)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (56:30)

So, yeah, I've seen. I've seen demons look like stuff you see in horror films. I've seen demons look like aliens that have been drawn in, you know, either comics or movies or news feeds. So in my experience, it's just angels and demons, but the demons will become different things to lure you in.

B (57:00)

And what do angels look like?

A (57:03)

They're amazing. I mean, they're really amazing. Radiant, bold, strong, tall. They're back to that experience I told you about with the big guy in the room who grew like the Hulk. When he grew like the Hulk, that was the first time I saw in my. In my mind's eye an angel. And in the moment that I was the most afraid, God showed me a picture of Angels lining the road that we drove in on to the apartment complex. And they were about 8 to 10ft tall. 7, 8, 9, 10ft tall. Standing stoic. Swords were drawn up against their chest, radiant in glory, bright, strong and calm. Very calm. Another time when we were in Europe and my dad was speaking to a bunch of churches that I called him over there, we were in France and Germany and Sweden and Denmark, and he was speaking at this one apartment complex in Sweden to a Bible study. And the word had got out about his testimony. So people started to flood the apartment complex and come to listen. And there was a heckler in the room that was really trying to disrupt the entire event. While my dad was speaking, he was asking all kinds of odd type of, like, questions. He was being aggressive. And the room was. Became super full. And I just felt God say, rick, go outside and pray. So I walked. And again, this is probably I was 14 or 15 in that one experience. This is probably I was 17 or 18, I think it was. And so I walked outside, closed the door again. The room was packed. And he said, look to your left. I looked to my left and I saw the same image of the angels lined all the way down the apartment building. He said, look right. And I saw the same angels lined all the way down the apartment building, protecting what was going on inside, but they were stoic. And then he said, look up. And that's where I saw angels and demons actually fighting in the air with each other. So, wow. The angels, you know, I'd seen. I was excited because I'd seen a ton of demons all the time, but I've only seen angels a few times. But they are amazing and they are calming, and they. If there's a way to describe that, seeing them represents the glory and majesty and power of God, such that it calms your spirit. That's what I saw, and. And that's what I felt. But it was a strength and it was a wonder.

B (59:38)

Wow, that's incredible. I mean, with the battle between good and evil, my. My money's on good, right? So that's. It's very comforting. So like I said earlier, I. I like Halloween. I like to dress up. I like the candy aspect. I like spooky stories. Is there any way for Christians to celebrate Halloween without letting in darkness? Is there a way to celebrate while still glorifying God? I wore Halloween costumes all week on. On my show. So am I a lost cause?

A (60:14)

No, this is very controversial with a lot of Christians right now, especially. There's some people coming out and Saying, absolutely not. Don't celebrate it. Which I completely understand. It is the highest holy day of the satanic church, for sure. You know, the streets are decorated in skeletons and blood and gore, you know, fake bodies hanging from trees, tombstones, all kinds of, you know, horrible, macabre stuff. What that does in the spirit realm is that it gives a perimeter for the demons to come and be and to exist and to cause havoc. So we can't move out of the neighborhood. We can't run from our neighbors. It's there, but it is. It does give them legal space, like, to operate in almost like a fence, I guess you could say.

B (61:04)

Yeah.

A (61:05)

So for Christians, what, you know, we do with our kids is a. You know, again, this applies to. If you're a believer, you know, you have to call on the name of Jesus for protection. Because when you walk out in a neighborhood, you're in the realm essentially. Not that you aren't when you walk out in the real world, when you go to work. But this day, this night is, like I said, the holy day of the satanic church. So what you do is you pray for protection like you always would. When you go anywhere but this one, you're walking dead into the battle. So you have to say, lord, protect me and watch over my kids. Now, again, some would say the only way to do that is to not participate. But the demons are still there. So we, you know, our rule is I let the kids dress up and go with their friends. But. But the costumes cannot be anything evil or dark or villainous. I guess you could say that would celebrate the dark. You know, they go out with. With their friends. We watch them closely, but we pray with them, too. And I pray over them. And I think, you know, I don't want to minimize at all the power that we have in prayer because it is the power that we have for covering. And when, for example, my dad and I go into an exorcism, you know, we. We pray for cover because we're walking into absolute darkness and we're walking into their realm. So all I would say is, again, I'm not an authority on should we or shouldn't we? I just know what I do with my kids, and that's. I cover them in prayer. I don't let them, you know, dress up in costumes that would celebrate what I know is evil. And then we just kind of, you know, maintain a spiritual wall of protection around us and them. So I may be wrong. Other people would say, oh, how could you do that with all the stuff that you know, I think because I just, I feel like that's every day, you know, that's every day for us as Christians. We have to pray for protection, we have to pray for guidance. We have to pray that the Lord would, would guide us and steer us towards him and towards his truth and that the Satan and that Satan wouldn't come in and destroy our hearts and minds. So that's what we do. So. But Halloween is gnarly holiday for sure.

B (63:38)

Yeah, I think it's great advice. I. In the Catholic Church, we look forward to the Reformation. We look forward to All Saints Day. So there's actually some good Christian juju, if you will. But yeah, I think a lot of people can kind of get wrapped into the, the demonic and, and all of the bad that's in the world when we know that we can fight that bad with good. So, um, with that said, Rick Hansen, thank you so much for being here. Where can people find out more? Where can they buy your book and where can they follow you?

A (64:10)

Awesome. Thank you. So I've got a website, it's called theblue lady.com. you can buy my book, the Blue lady on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. You can follow me on Instagram as well, which is on my website. But yeah, I mean, those are, those are the best places to. And ask me some questions if you have any.

B (64:31)

Well, this has been extremely enlightening. So I loved that we had, you know, in the battle of good and evil, we had a conversation about both, but we ended on a good note. So, Rick Hanson, thank you for being here on my Halloween episode of Nightly Scroll.

A (64:46)

Thanks for having me. It was an honor. It's great to see you sa.