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On September 20, the LCS waved goodbye to TSM, once the most popular name in the North American league, and rolled out the welcome mat for Shopify Rebellion. This unexpected move had everyone buzzing: What's Shopify Rebellion's game plan? Dario "TLO" Wünsch, ex-StarCraft pro turned esports leader at Shopify, joined Jacob this week to discuss how the e-commerce platform will be different and whether the current storm in the esports industry.

TLO and Jacob discuss how to build fandom in an environment that over indexes on winning—by shelling out million-dollar player salaries—and sees fans traditionally move with players, rather than building deep connections with teams. The two also discuss criticism around Shopify's perceived goals and whether or not the company's committed in the long term to the esports industry.

You can follow TLO on Twitter at @TLOgg.

If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing to the new Jacob Wolf & Mikhail Klimentov Patreon for exclusive Visionaries content: patreon.com/JacobWolfMikhailKlimentov