#2615 RHOC S18E18 Part Two: Lawyer & Disorder

Summary

Watch What Crappens - Episode #2615: RHOC S18E18 Part Two: Lawyer & Disorder

Release Date: November 8, 2024

In the latest episode of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve deep into the tumultuous events of "Real Housewives of Orange County" Season 18, Episode 18: Part Two: Lawyer & Disorder. This detailed recap captures the intense drama, character confrontations, and pivotal moments that unfolded during the reunion and the subsequent fallout.

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1. Introduction to Reunion Drama

The episode kicks off with a heated discussion about Katie Janela's confrontations during the reunion. Ben and Ronnie express their frustration with Katie's aggressive stance and the cast's collective response to her actions.

• Ben Mandelker (00:03:43): "So that now it's like a little break and everything and it's funny."

2. Katie Janela vs. Gina Darling

A significant portion of the episode centers around Katie's fallout with Gina Darling, the group's real estate agent. The tension escalates as accusations fly regarding misrepresentations about property ownership.

• Ronnie Karam (04:19): "Emily's like, you know, whenever I travel to New York, I get constipated. Oh, Shannon gave me this stuff called colon max and I immediately threw it out. But if you want it, you should get it."

• Ben Mandelker (08:55): "I know."

The hosts dissect the inconsistencies in Katie's statements about her living arrangements, highlighting Gina's frustration with perceived dishonesty.

3. The Role of Emily and Legal Implications

Emily, portrayed as a lawyer and a staunch supporter of Gina, introduces legal arguments questioning Katie's credibility. The hosts critique Emily's approach and her legal interpretations, suggesting a bias in her judgments.

• Ben Mandelker (10:40): "Doesn't matter because you lied about, you weren't clear about your intentions with a home in San Diego."

4. Accusations of False Claims and Public Perception

Katie shares a harrowing personal story involving a road rage incident that led to police involvement and the loss of custody of her children. However, the cast members, led by Emily and Gina, challenge the validity of her account, labeling it as misleading and untrustworthy.

• Ronnie Karam (12:56): "Why would you lose custody? That only happens when it's your fault. In Cal. In California. You must be a disgusting woman to lose custody."

• Ben Mandelker (15:14): "Like, if you want us to hold space for your family trauma and what you've gone through and your struggles, like, why are you being so unsympathetic here?"

5. The Innocence Project and Jurisprudence

Emily references the Innocence Project to undermine Katie's claims, bringing forth discussions about wrongful convictions and the reliability of legal processes. The hosts argue that Emily's legal jargon is being misapplied to discredit Katie without substantial evidence.

• Ben Mandelker (26:16): "The court said, well, you lost your rights. So I guess that means that you were the one who was bad."

6. The Scapegoating of Katie

Throughout the episode, Katie is portrayed as the antagonist, with multiple cast members aligning against her. The hosts express sympathy for Katie's situation but criticize the group's handling of her accusations, suggesting a pattern of scapegoating and lack of empathy.

• Ronnie Karam (28:49): "But you did. You either come in and you just go full throated with this information and go after Heather, or you just keep it to yourself."

7. Ryan's Involvement and Financial Scandal

The discussion shifts to Ryan Ohtani's alleged involvement in financial misconduct, including money laundering and illegal gambling. Jen DeLaurentis's role in exposing these activities is scrutinized, with the hosts questioning the sincerity and effectiveness of her actions.

• Ben Mandelker (62:44): "She continues to attack Ryan. She explains that, you know, they were cashing in the chips, that they were turning all this money into chips at casinos and then cashing them in. And then they lost $12 million gambling."

8. Final Verdict and Host Reflections

As the episode concludes, Ben and Ronnie reflect on the intense emotions and unresolved tensions from the reunion. They express a mix of frustration and empathy, acknowledging the complexity of the conflicts while maintaining their critical stance on the cast's actions.

• Ben Mandelker (67:24): "I just want you to confess."

• Ronnie Karam (68:15): "It was horrible, horrible time."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ronnie Karam (07:58): "It's such a weird thing to bring up and use against somebody on tv. It's bizarre."

• Ben Mandelker (09:34): "Gina's making me film at the mouth right now. I'm like, gina is making me so annoyed."

• Ronnie Karam (16:08): "I think these are hateful cast members putting stories in the blogs."

• Ben Mandelker (26:16): "Emily should know well enough. Enough that, like, you either come in and you just go full throated with this information and go after Heather, or you just keep it to yourself."

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Conclusion

Episode #2615 of Watch What Crappens offers a fervent and unfiltered analysis of the dramatic confrontations within "Real Housewives of Orange County" Season 18. Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam navigate through accusations, legal debates, and personal vendettas, providing listeners with a comprehensive and candid overview of the episode's most contentious moments. Their passionate discourse underscores the complex dynamics and deep-seated tensions that continue to define the RHOC series.

For those who haven't listened, this summary serves as a window into the intense drama and pivotal exchanges that characterize this season's reunion. Whether you're a long-time fan or a curious newcomer, the intricate portrayals and heated debates offer plenty to ponder.

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Note: This summary intentionally omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to maintain focus on the episode's primary discussions.

Transcript

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[Ben Mandelker]

So that now it's like a little break and everything and it's funny. And then Heather's like, guess what? Who wants a relatable Heather Debreau moment? I actually pooped this morning. I was so excited. Richard Marks didn't appreciate that I did it on his lap. But you know what? He's basically a toilet as far as I'm concerned.

[Ronnie Karam]

I love even when Heather tries to act like she's human. I'm sorry, I just don't believe it. I don't believe anything has ever come out of that. I just don't believe it. I think like maybe if she blows her nose and some gravel comes out sometimes. But I do not for one second believe that actual poop ever came out of there.

[Ben Mandelker]

Emily's like, you know, whenever I travel to New York, I get constipated. Oh, Shannon gave me this stuff called colon max and I immediately threw it out. But if you want it, you should get it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, didn't. Wasn't Shannon selling colon enemas or enemas something last season? Remember when she made Jen do one in the bathroom to Hazel?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

What happened to that?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I can't believe it didn't take off Dr.

[Ronnie Karam]

Moon's ass blaster. Do you want to blast your ass to the moon? Take Dr. Moon's ass blaster. Jen Pedranty loved it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hello everyone. I'm back on the set. We have fixed the brush shelf. The brush shelf has been fixed and I now am looking more like Lady Bird Johnson than ever before.

[Ronnie Karam]

So I duct take them down. I duct take my breath. So now we start over again. And then Heather's like, I was telling them about colon Max. And Shannon says, I'm about to poop right now. And he's like, great. So he starts back up and he's like, welcome back. Shannon's gonna poop.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wacky Shannon is back, everyone. Are. Are you in, Beryl? No, I'm gonna be fine. I have multiple Spanx on and so it's just too difficult of a maneuver right now. Plus, I'm pretty sure I have some psychic debris kind of working as a cork, if you know what I'm saying.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then we talk about now, this season. Oh, God. Then we move on to the Katie segment. Oh, Jesus. Here we go.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, here we go.

[Ronnie Karam]

Katie's boring montage. Let's face it, it was boring. So then we get to the fighting with Heather and all that. So then let's see, what are the first questions?

[Ben Mandelker]

So before we get into that, Katie, I want to hear about your journey attempting to reconnect with your mother. So she didn't go to Korea because her father in law was ill and then ultimately passed away. So that's going to be coming up like next month maybe for the camera. Who knows? That would actually be nice. I would actually like to see that. And then it's like, okay. And you and Tamara both have kids who live away from you. So why did your son Max ultimately decide to stay in Atlanta with your ex, Colon Max Cole. Max. I do use it. I'm a human. I'm a. I'm a regular person. Colon Max. Is that what we're talking about? Sorry, I wasn't really listening because it was a Katie segment.

[Ronnie Karam]

She says he didn't want to leave a school and friends and stuff like that. And she still sees him for Thanksgiving and Christmas every break, and she goes there once a month to see him. So her other son wasn't old enough to shoot and the husband, the ex wouldn't sign off on him being there. Whatever, you know, small talk. So then she's like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Ben Mandelker]

I just want.

[Ronnie Karam]

Now we get to San Diego, right?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Because she's mentioning that she. Her other son lives in San Diego and he was in. He was living in San Diego. Etc. It's like you said, it's just like a get to know Katie moment or whatever. And everything is fine. And Gina is like, so he's still there? And she's like, no, you know, now he's in our work full time in Orange County. So then Gina, Gina, just when you think she's Having, like, a good moment. She's like. She's had. She's. She's overall had, despite a rough start, a pretty good season. And then Gina, out of nowhere, is like, you know what? When I first met you, you told me you reached out to me saying you need my help as a real estate agent. And then you lied to me about owning your home in San Diego. I was like, really? Are we going back to this again? Everyone lies to Gina the realtor. That's. That's the story of the season.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's just so weird. And I'm not saying these people aren't lying to her, but it's just so weird that Gina is, like, coming and using everybody's real estate applications against. I guess it's so bizarre. Like, who wants to do business with Gina after seeing how she treats people on TV over business? It's bizarre. It's extremely unprofessional, and especially to, like, blindside her at the reunion. Like, they're all deciding that they're gonna blindside Katie now to go be Heather minions, as fucking usual. She's. Gina's always there at the end of the end of the day to carry fucking Heather's water every single season. And here she is again doing it. And you're gonna start with real estate bashing. Don't they have enough else? They're about to mommy shame her ad option. Shame her. I mean, everything. They're about to drag this woman completely down. And you need to bring this up to Gina. Sit the down. Gina's an too. You know, Gina. Like you said, Gina has two good seconds and then reminds you, you know, people don't change.

[Ben Mandelker]

I know.

[Ronnie Karam]

It just.

[Ben Mandelker]

Gina is more upset about this stupid fringe situation that didn't even happen on the show than she is about Tamara treating Shannon like an. Like, you know, it's like. Like that whole last Tamra thing that we watched, Gina's like, yeah, well, Tamara, don't you think you should be nicer? But here, it's like, you told me you own that house and said you didn't tell me that you were leasing to own it. Like, and she's angry. She's so angry right now. I'm like, I'm actually literally frothing at the mouth. I. I just had a big bubble of saliva just coat my lips. I'm like, gina is making me film at the mouth right now. I'm going rabid because she makes me so annoyed.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, she. So Katie's like, no, I didn't lie to you. We Did. We did a lease to own, and they wanted two years of rental income. So that's the situation that we have now. Am I going to say that I understand what the fuck Katie's talking about? Not really. But no matter what, maybe she did lie. I don't even know what she did. I just think that's such a weird thing to bring up and use against somebody on tv. Like, it's bizarre. And why I also give it up now.

[Ben Mandelker]

There may also be a broader context to this that. That I don't understand, you know, and then Emily jumps, and then this is where Emily really starts to go downhill for me, this reunion. Because. Because you start off well, where she was saying to Tamra, like, you shouldn't have been bullying Shannon into saying that she's an alcoholic. Like, what do you expect to get out of that? I'm like, oh, Emily, good. But now Emily just jumps in and goes, I asked you directly if you own this home. I'm like, why? Why are you coming in hot now? This is already a stupid argument between Gina and Katie. And now you're jumping in because you and Gina have clearly been talking about this and pissed about this and have decided this is what you're going to use to take Katie down.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Emily's also yelling, by the way, I have to point out. She's literally yelling across the room and she's pointing and she's shaking her arm and she's, like, pointing at her and said, oh, no. But she asked you directly if you own it. And Gina goes, do you own a home? Well, she showed me the text, and you said, yes, but you don't own the home. And she's like, yeah, that. That. Both me and then you make a. And then we see Katie's Instagram story where she is feeding her dogs outside with a glass of wine, and she put a caption that says, I love feeding my dogs at my home in Orange County. And she did that because Emily went on Guess where.

[Ben Mandelker]

Where else?

[Ronnie Karam]

Jeff Lewis and said, I thought that she moved. Like, she didn't even leave. She was basically saying, this girl doesn't even live in Orange County. She lives in San Diego or something. You know, which they do sometimes. Like, she's not even on there. Why is she even on this show?

[Ben Mandelker]

But, like, hello, Heather Dubrow lives in Los Angeles and basically rents out a room in a country club in Newport beach so that we can have some excuse to be on this show. So where's the energy for Heather on this, Right? So Katie is like, but I didn't move out of Orange County.

[Ronnie Karam]

But you.

[Ben Mandelker]

But you live in a different house. So it's not like I was wrong. She was like, well, I heard that you said I moved to San Diego, and I did not move to San Diego. But you said an interview that you went back to San Diego. Are people not allowed to leave the geographic realm of Orange county for the duration of their.

[Ronnie Karam]

No kidding. What do we all have ankle bracelets? You've been in the Innocence Project for five minutes, girl. Oh, God.

[Ben Mandelker]

Federal crime. Did you go across state lines except in the county version? I mean, what's going on here?

[Ronnie Karam]

And she's like, I went back for two months because my father in law was dying. Oh, you went back for a couple of months? Two months. Because in his hospital was three miles from our house there. Oh, and then you went back to Orange county and you live in a different house and you used to live in when you were filming. And then you get mad and you make an Instagram. Who cares if she move. People on this show move every fucking season. What is your problem?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, where Tamara has a new house every single year. Well, what is.

[Ronnie Karam]

Why, where Tamara lives in Big Bear now. She moved back to shoot this show. Everybody knows it. Why are you acting, acting like this is such a sin?

[Ben Mandelker]

And on top of that, that this is like all over something that Katie said to Gina off camera, not during the season about, yeah, I own the house. And they're acting like this is the biggest crime that we've seen all year long. So Emily's like, when I was actually right, you did move. You don't live in the same house. And you did go to San Diego for a while. It's like, congratulations, she also went to Starbucks. Did you. Did you also predict that as well? Because you seem to be really on.

[Ronnie Karam]

A tear here, weirdo. I'm a lawyer. And by the way, you better not repeat that because that's copyrighted. So then.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Katie's like, yes, you're totally right about that. You're very right.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, I just think there's a lot of inconsistency and things that don't eat up with some of the stuff you said. Yeah, look who's talking. You want to start going over your ex's that we've been. We've been going around for three years that no one has brought to you on camera and made you answer for not one single person. And yeah, inconsistencies, like.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, like, exactly. Like you're saying one part of the season that Travis had To go because you're earning enough money to get to provide gifts for your. Your kids, but not enough to provide gifts for all the kids. So he has to leave the house. Now it's about the ex. Like, talk about things that aren't really clear and don't.

[Ronnie Karam]

Don't make sense and talk about. She's already moved back in with Travis. I heard like, that's not. That was just for storyline. That whole time she's so full of. So then. And by the way, allegedly, this is all just. I'm reading on the Internet that. But Gina's like, Jeff Lewis. Yeah, no kidding. But this. It's just inconsistencies, you know, and like, even Jen has questioned it. Right? Jen. And Jen's like, well, look, there's so many stories. And here's the thing. You have to ask her, because she does. She has a story and she has an explanation for everything. And you know what? I love explanations. I just love them. I collect them. You know, I say, hey, what. What was the deal with that? And then I find out, you know, it was just a flaccid penis and it wasn't sent to all of his friends. It was just all of the hostesses of the no boos around tri state area.

[Ben Mandelker]

As long as that photo did not touch my bulls and forks and knives. So then Gina's like, so Jean's like, so you believe all of her explanations? And she's like, do I have a reason not to? To be fair, Jen does seem to really believe things on Facebook.

[Ronnie Karam]

I don't believe anything. You know what I mean?

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, let's. Jen may not be your Katie's best character witness. So there's like, if I look you up, there are not. There's not a hundred stories online. Emily's like, yeah, there's nothing. Then me. I guess you're saying like, if she looks up everyone on the cast, there's no stories. Maybe like, she's like, maybe for me there's a story that Terry, she'd sent me, but that's basically it. And Katie has a million different stories going on, which actually I don't.

[Ronnie Karam]

Gee, I wonder why she does. But. Yeah, I wonder why Heather.

[Ben Mandelker]

Katie only has two. Two main stories, which was that they got. Which get addressed both here. The golf, the shots, and then the stuff with this police incident. That's just too. That's just too. You know.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And it is kind of a coincidence that Katie has all this weird story. All these weird stories out about her. And I don't think it is a coincidence at all. I think these are. These are hateful cast members putting stories in the blogs.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

So. And they're all by one author too, which is super interesting. That Ryan. Ryan something. And I was like, I wonder if he knows Heather, because that's weird. So then, because, you know, I totally 100 just in case I sound like I'm hinting around, I totally 100 believe this is all Heather torturing her. So then we see Real Housewives of Orange county headline, Katie Janela due for 5 million dollar over alleged or sued for over 5 million dollars over alleged stolen business idea. So he asked about the tee shots, and she's like, oh, I was actually dismissed from that case. It was my friend who's a business partner who probably heard about it on the golf course from somebody else. And then. Then we see the next thing, and Heather's just like, well, there's just so many hinky stories. I mean, Sutton texted me last week and said to me, she used me. And Kitty says, and I was like, wow, making it on here again. And even Sutton's gonna come on and carry some water for Heather.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Katie's like, I used her. And Heather's like, yes, she came to my house in Augusta and she was going, and she was bring all these high level golfers. I'm talking, no one showed up. And she didn't pay the photographer, and she used me to promote her business. And we see texts from Sutton and this. And Sutton's text is like, this is nuts. This is what she did at my house in Augusta. Three exclamation points. Because I'm that angry. Never paid for the photographer, didn't bring any golfers, only used my house for promo crazy.

[Ronnie Karam]

But I did offer to pay her, even the catering. I'm just telling you what Sutton said. And then Andy is like, well, well, Christine from that character that Julia Louis Dreyfus played after Seinfeld ended, says, how could I be out of other. Christine's already says, hey, what's a story about getting snubbed by Heather at Sutton's Christmas party? And Heather's like, oh, this is good. Because there are three different stories. And the first story is that I saw you in a driveway and I looked at you evilly. No, I didn't see you in the driveway. My turn. My turn to speak.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm speaking now, but I'm correcting you.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm speaking now. And then I looked away and I snubbed you. And the second story, that was that.

[Ben Mandelker]

I was at the bar and that is the story. That. That's the story. That story.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's. Well, that's the one.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, well, you know, she was there with Denise Richards and Camille Grammer, but I never even saw Camille at that party. That story number two. Meanwhile, Camille was probably, like, talking to Heather, like, hi, Heather, it's me. Camille.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, she's Camille. Yeah, she's Camille.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, Mauricio. Oh, thank you so much. Who's Camille? Can you tell me who Camille is?

[Ronnie Karam]

Camille is this lady. She used to be married to Frasier, and then he left her for some flight attendant or something. And now he posts pictures really hairily in his underwear.

[Ben Mandelker]

In his underwear. And it's so fun and so upsetting.

[Ronnie Karam]

So you can see how grammar is. And Katie is like. She was standing right next to you.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm pretty sure that was just one of those strange sculptures of a dog butler. No, it was Camille. I put my drink on the tray. No, you balanced it on Camille's head. And she was pretty good at it because she used to be a dancer. I don't. I don't think you got it right, Katie. Nope.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I wouldn't believe that. I've seen Camille dance. There's no balancing on any heads. That's for dance.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm still speaking. And story three was that we were in a group of people and your name was said, and I heard it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, well, listen, I didn't tell.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am still not done. And I heard your name, and I didn't respond, and everyone standing there thought it was weird. Let me just tell you something.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, my God, my.

[Ben Mandelker]

To Hern, when someone is coming into this group, we all want to have friends. Only A would do that. And I am not a. I am an actress who lives next to Drake. I don't know how it devolved into these three separate stories, but let me tell you something. Even if there are three stories, I would know all my lines in each single one of them.

[Ronnie Karam]

I didn't tell three separate stories. But I promise you, had I known who you were, I would have said hi. And Gina's like, yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

And she, like, leans forward into Katie.

[Ronnie Karam]

Hi.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, the scariest version, saying, hi.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. Your friendly neighborhood Heather. Jesus Christ. I just saw you out on lawns to terrify children. Jesus Christ. So Gina's like, it would have been in the best interest to say hello. Oh, she. Shut up, you ass kisser. Jesus Christ account with all these people coming to battle for Heather. It's so gross. Jesus. Everybody else just needs to get a little money to get respect in this cast. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crap ins commercial.

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[Ben Mandelker]

All right, well, Christine from Aguilar, they both are missing their A's. So. So they say, well, we really can't think of any. No one person runs all the paparazzi in la. Is it possible that your friend meant Yes, I looked like, it looked like paparazzi versus having proof that Heather actually hired a photographer.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, okay, Katie, listen. Now, up to this point, I'm really trying to stand for Katie. Right? Okay, so now he's. She goes, oh, well, we had a phone conversation after that text, and he called me and said, why do you want to know? And I said, I saw it on TikTok and it was funny. And. And he's like, wait, wait a minute. K's like, oh, no, you didn't see it on your Tik Tok because you told Gino something different. He goes, yeah, you didn't see it on Tik Tok. You didn't see it on Tik Tok?

[Ben Mandelker]

No, it came up on my for you page, and I screenshot the Tik Tok and sent it to him. And that's what you see? My. No, no. You know, you never said. You said it was Instagram. She. It was Instagram. She's lying, everyone. She's using the wrong platform. She's full of lies. Hinky story.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, but the reason you were asking wasn't because it was on a Tick Tock feed. And Katie's like, he said it wasn't Heather. It was someone close to her. Okay, so now he said it wasn't Heather. Okay, so now you're just caught. Now there's nothing else I could do to help you?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

What the.

[Ben Mandelker]

I want to be clear. I didn't call the paparazzi. I didn't pass a note in biology to someone I am speaking. I didn't wink at anybody.

[Ronnie Karam]

My son did. It's like, oh, okay. So then Katie's like, got it. So she's like, no, nobody notified the paparazzi. Okay, well, then just the random paparazzi took pictures of this woman that nobody gives a about and spread it literally everywhere. Okay, that's fine. Maybe it was a really slow, sad day over there. I don't know.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know why you were trying to look into things about me months before you met me. I don't care what you saw on Tick Tock. But of course, Heather's whole thing of, like, months before you met me is also like. Well, her version is that you snubbed her, so she had actually met you. You just didn't pay any attention to her. So of course she's like, who is this? I mean, I know her up from tv. I want to look into this, you know, but Heather acting like, I can't believe you would look into things, like, into things about me now Excuse me while I spend the rest of the episode talking about all the articles that I read about you.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then also when she says, TikTok, I don't care what you heard on TikTok, she does like, an air quote. And so Katie's like, okay, well, me being very new, I. What? Wait, what are we talking about now? Now they're talking about Gina and Heather.

[Ben Mandelker]

Weird. I was very interested in meeting you. I love fans, and nothing about you adds up. I think there's a story for everything. I don't know. I think you have absolutely no credibility. And you know I mean business because I said single syllable in that sentence.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Katie's like, okay. And then she just turns to Gina and says, I just want to apologize to you for saying I think it was a setup with you, because Tamara and I had that conversation. And then we see a flashback to Tamara and Katie talking about Gina and Heather. And Tamara's going, gina knew it would not be funny. You got set up. You got set up. You got set up to do this dirty work. And then we come back, and Katie's like, and me being brand new, hearing her say that to me, I was like, do you really, really think that? Do you think that's possible? And Heather's like, oh, so now it's Tamara's fault?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, it's you, Tamara. It's your fault. And everyone's like, oh, classic. But Tamara was the one who threw Katie under the bus in an effort to. In this, like, battle between her and Shannon, don't you. Because remember, Tamara was in Katie's ear, like, you got set up. You got set up. You know what? She said this, and you got set up. You got set up. But then the moment. Let's see if I can remember, it was in London. There was, like, a moment where then Tamra decided, oh, because. Because Katie was friends. Is friends with Jen. So when Tamra. When Jen yelled at Tamra, then Tamra had to basically now go after Katie because she's an ally of Jen. So all of a sudden, she was like, you know what? I'm starting to realize that Katie. Katie did start this. She wasn't set up. She made me think she was set up. But she did start this. So he just like. Like, I think it's turnabout's fair play. Katie's like, you threw me under the bus. Fine, I'm gonna throw you under the bus.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then, you know, Katie's like, I was shocked. And Tamara's like, but see, I understand that because of the things you were telling me. And she goes, oh, yeah, yeah. It was just the whole situation. And Tamara's like, well, she thought Gina told you to bring it up. And Katie's like, and then you and I had that conversation the night before the golf event and we talked about it and I said, I really want to tell woman to woman. I just didn't want it to become this whole group thing. But you did make it a whole group. I am talking things first.

[Ben Mandelker]

And then you said, the ball. And I said, the ball. Why did you tell everybody? And that's like, well, that was on purpose. Yeah, this is why it's hard for me. And I feel bad for me. And Katie's like, it was just. It was too far, too far gone by then. I mean, I will say it was Katie's mistake that she told everyone she should is either like, you either come in and you just go full throated with this information and go after Heather, or you just keep it to yourself. But she was sort of like, told people and then it sort of got around and she's like, wow, I guess it's become a whole group thing. It's like, yeah, that is sort of on you, Katie.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, and she was doing like other season news too, right? Like, she's like, I'm gonna be on the show. I'm gonna come for Heather. And I'll bet she was calling the paparazzi. That's going to be my thing. I'm gonna come for Heather and it's gonna be about paparaz. It's like she's a little girl who's like, getting her first chance, you know, she's like, I'm gonna do this. And it just. It just failed. It was like a huge, huge failure. It's something we've already heard. No one cares about it. People assume they all call the paparazzi on themselves anyway. Like, it's just. It was just a failure from the beginning.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sorry, I was. I thought you were done. So I started to. I started to go in on a new, fresh, new Heather.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm literally never done.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am speaking still me. Still me. By the way. How about this? Why do you care? Aside from the fact that I am an established television actress.

[Ronnie Karam]

She'S just like, whatever, Heather. I just didn't think it would be. This would be so rattling. And she goes, oh, you did. You wanted it to. She goes, no. I mean, don't put words in my mouth. This is your thing. Falsely accusing people is kind of your thing. I get it. Okay. This is where it's like, you've already won this. Katie looks really stupid. You've already come in with her. You made her look like a total jackass and a total liar. Just end it. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like this is where we enter the inhumane punishment section of the reunion.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So now they're like, what's. What's. Shannon's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. What? What? Who. Who else has. Who else has been falsely accused? Who was it? Who was. Was it what? I thought the only person who was making false accusations was that slut Alexis Bolino. Sorry, sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself. So Emily is like, well, she. Katie falsely accused someone and he ended up going to prison. Hashtag, the innocent project. Kitty's like, he didn't go to prison. Can I just tell the story? He went to jail. So you gotta love.

[Ronnie Karam]

Emily doesn't know the difference between prison and jail. Okay, Ms. Lawyer Innocence Project.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Emily's like, well, Katie's like, I want to tell the story. And Emily's like, well, if you tell the story, I don't know if we believe you telling the story. I'm like, it's her story to tell. And you guys have all been in this rodeo for a few years now, and you all know that maybe what gets printed on Radar online is not the most factually accurate. And the fact that you don't even want to hear it come right out of the horse's mouth and you'd rather trust, you know, some blogger or some tabloid instead. It's already really shitty.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And Emily's like, well, I don't know if we believe you. And Heather goes, we've read this story. Yeah. Okay, guys, so when anything comes up about you, you're just gonna say, oh, what? We believe bloggers now? Which is like your next thing to say. Freaking.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, Hypocrites.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then Katie's like, okay, so the kids and I were driving in Marietta, Georgia, on a four lane road, and a man goes. And Andy says, when? And she was like, 10 years ago. So this is, by the way, 10 year old tea that these ladies are.

[Ben Mandelker]

Trying to go for.

[Ronnie Karam]

And so she says that a man was swerving into their lane with his window down, yelling, you. And she had three kids in the back of her car and they were little, so they pulled over to the side of the road to let him pass, and he went right in front of her and started screaming at her. So she called the police, and the police said, can you leave? And then she put her car in reverse. And he ran to the back of her car, started filming her and her children. And the children are screaming, crying, and the kids remember that day. It was just so terrifying. And Heather's like, well, that's not the story the police tell.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is already like, really Heather. So Katie's like, yes, well, they tell a one sided story. And Emily goes, the police do again, to your point, the innocent project. So Andy's like, look, the point is that like, the system doesn't always work for people, okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

And.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Emily should know that. That. And here Emily's like shocked, shocked. So Andy's like, I want to hear the rest of the story. So Katie's basically saying that the guy wouldn't let her leave. Oh, yeah, well, she's really credible. I'm like, I could not believe the way Heather was totally dismissing this account by Katie. And Katie says, yeah, he run. He runs in front of the car when she tried to leave. And the police came in and they're like, calm down, calm down. And if you won't come down, we'll tase you. And so then the guy was like, you the police. So they tased him. Him, he went to jail. And she was like, I had nothing to do with him going to jail because, well, that's not how the police tell the story. The police tell a story that you followed the guy home. She's like, I would never follow anyone home. You guys have been on a show with me for nine months now. You see how boring I am. Why would I ever do anything rageful? I've had so many opportunities with you ladies already and I haven't taken them up.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, really? So the police are lying, are they? And Andy's like, well, how do you know what the police said anyway, Heather. And she goes, because there's statements in that article. And then we see the headline from In Touch and Katie Janela accused of calling the police to report fake crime causing wrongful arrest. And she's like, well, it tells one side from everybody. Because if you read the police report, the statement I gave to the cop, county police, it's a lot different. It's different. And Heather's like, well, she was driving the car. She was texting children with children in her car. And this guy saw her and was triggered because a family member had been killed by drive. Driving. And so she saw a. They saw a texting person and told her to stop and she was outraged and followed him up. Well, that sounds like. And I love that she's taking the. The story of Some rando guy who's like, just because. So he knows someone that died from texting and driving is screaming at someone and cursing at a mother with three kids in her car in public, on the roads.

[Ben Mandelker]

Someone is. Someone is triggered because they have a family member who is killed by distracted driving. So they were going to have a road rage moment. Like, no, that does not add up.

[Ronnie Karam]

But you know what's dangerous? Texting while driving. Oh, okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

So we're okay with the person who's having a road rage. Got it. So Katie's like, I don't know where he lives. Why would I follow someone home with my three young kids in the back? She goes, well, she pulled him in his driveway, came out, and she was yelling at him. He filmed her. She lit his house on fire. I don't think you know about that part. She lit his house on fire, and then she doxed him all over Reddit. And then on top of that, she had him deported out of the country. And then when he finally got back into the country, she kicked him in the balls. How rude is this woman?

[Ronnie Karam]

So she's like, and then they took him to jail in front of his neighbors. That poor man. Katie's like, I don't remember there being neighbors. Well, then they went to jail and they ripped prison, and they realized that Katie was the aggressor, not him, and he was released. No. Sometimes they take people to jail and they realize that both people were at fault. They let somebody out. Out of the jail, Heather. So Katie's like, well, I couldn't even tell my side. I didn't even get to go to court because they served my ex husband. And they're like, what? And she goes, yeah, they went to his house because that was my address at the time on my license or whatever. And my lawyer said, did you know you had this date? And I said, no, I didn't show up because I didn't know about the date. So immediately I was found guilty. And at the time, I was literally homeless with three kids. Like, I had nowhere to go. And she starts crying. And so they served her ex husband. Husband. Oh, this is it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sounds like she was in. Like, it's so sad. Sounds like she was in a shelter because she said she was in a facility. And she didn't want to say its name or anything, but it sounds like she was probably in a safe, safe home or. Or whatever the proper name is for it. And so the ex husband is the one who gets served. And of course, he's a dick, and he doesn't tell her, but he doesn't. Luckily, he actually has no communication with her. But the downside is that he has no communication with her. And so then she has no idea that this happens. And so then.

[Ronnie Karam]

And then you've got Gina over here. Yes. And you've got Gina over here going, they can't serve your ex husband. They have to serve you. And Shannon said, well, it's just the address. And Katie's like, they left it at the address on my license. And Gina's like, I don't think they can do that. Okay, Gina.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay. Thanks, Gina. Thanks, Gina. Thank. Thanks for all your work here as the, as a, as an expert on Georgia laws.

[Ronnie Karam]

So we've got now this woman who was in a shelter. Assumedly she was in a shelter because of some not great stuff going on in her marriage with her three kids, trying to outrun a crazy person on the road. Now, does that mean she had road rage? I don't know. Maybe she did. Who knows? I mean, what I know is I see a woman under of extreme duress here and this cast is just laughing and mocking her while she just using it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Totally unsympathetic. Totally unsympathetic to what sounds like a very scary ordeal. Like, you know, they always say there's one, there's one side, there's the other side, her side, his side, and then the truth. So maybe, maybe Katie was texting while driving. Okay. But it sounds like this person had road rage. And whatever it is, it sounds like a up situation. And it just, it seems like, like, you know, this is not an innocent until proven guilty situation with these women. This is a weird. Don't. We don't believe anything you say because you lied about, you weren't clear about your intentions with a home in San Diego. Nothing you say actually has any credibility. So we're not going to choose to believe this very scary and harrowing story that we can see all over your face that this is so disturbing to you and it traumatized your family. But because you said you went to San Diego for a few weeks and didn't tell us us, we don't believe you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, they're also kind of forcing her to admit that she was doing. She was in the shelter and she was. Had this horrible time with her children where she's living out of her car and all this other. On national tv, which her kids are going to see. I mean, they're just vile cows. And then Heather going. And then Emily, Emily just is the. I mean, Emily, I don't know I'm even losing. And especially after going after Shannon for investigating people, you know, and then they're saying later when Andy calls him on it, he's like, you're investigating? Like, no, it was just an article. Well, so was Gina. Gina's thing. Gina's thing was all over the blog about pushing that man down the stairs. We all read it. And now you guys are acting like, oh, well, we can do it, because it was in the blogs. You hypocrites. Do you even hear yourselves? Monster?

[Ben Mandelker]

And she's like, do you see? I feel like it's a pattern with you, that every time you get called out on something, there's an excuse for everything. I'm like, this is. It is such a shitty take by Emily. Such a. And it really, like, I'm so glad you brought the innocent project projects, because I did not even think about that. But especially in the context of that, you know, here is a cause that is about helping people who've been falsely incarcerated get out of jail because no one listened to their side, or people were quick to judge, or there was corruption in the system and they got screwed. And here she is advocating for that, and yet she is coming on so hard to Katie. Now, if somehow it comes out that Katie is. That Katie did lie in the situation or whatever, then we can roast her. Them. But for right now, like this, I.

[Ronnie Karam]

Literally don't even care because it's none of. It's none of Emily's business to bring it on the show. It's none of her business.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, the point is that they don't give her. They're not giving. Like, considering that they all are shady and they all are murky about details when it comes to their lives, that they are roasting Katie and holding her to a higher standard. I don't know. I think it's shitty.

[Ronnie Karam]

Especially Emily saying, oh, yeah, you know what? All I hear from you excuses when the second Emily got called out on something this year, what did she do? It's because my mom traumatized me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Like, I only shamed you for your. For how much money you spend because my mom didn't come home for lunch.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, my God, this lady sucks, man. So then Andy's like, well, Heather, you know, so Shannon's like, oh, well, there's a lot of investigation here because I don't know anything about this. And Shannon. Heather's like, well, it's all over the Internet. It's everywhere. We're not investigating. And this is where Andy Starts laughing. He's like, but you started the day by saying, I don't want to be in an environment where you dig stuff up on other people. And the only people I want questions from are named Christine.

[Ben Mandelker]

So. And two hours earlier, we see Heather saying, like, you know, I don't. And she has. She flaps her hand like, I don't want to. To dig stuff up today. Let's not dig things up. I'm going to flap my hand to the left and to the right. Let's swat an imaginary fly. Let's not dig things up. And now she's like, whoa, it's all over the Internet, by the way. This is not all over the Internet. This is. This is not scanned of all. Like, yes, it's out there on the Internet. And yes, there are articles. But, like, you had to really, like, like, you this. First of all, this came out months ago, and the fact that it's still present in your head means that you still have to go do some searching, find the article, find all the details. You have to read all that stuff. You had to memorize all the beats of that story. So to me, like, maybe you didn't dig it up, but you certainly spent a lot of energy around this article.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Emily's like, well, you know, it's in public domain. We're flipping through Instagram. And Heather's like, what I'm saying is I'm not calling any attorney and I'm not hiring.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wait a sec. I'm sorry, did Emily literally just say, you know, oh, well, if it's. If it's in the public domain and you're flipping through Instagram and you see it, like, didn't she just roast Katie for saying she found something on her TikTok for you page?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, well, she's saying that Katie was lying about that and she told Gina she originally heard that from somewhere else, not the tick tock. But now that she. Now she's using tick tock as an excuse or something. I don't know. Just hypocrites. So then Heather's like, the point is, I don't call paparazzi. It's like, okay, wow. All of this just because someone called Heather out on some stupid little thing that we all believe 100% that she did. And even if you didn't call the paparazzi, you would, you narcissist. You're completely that type of personality. And so is your husband. He bragged about it on tv. You probably all are on these shows. It's like the smallest, most petty Thing. And then you just drag the woman to the lowest, basest. Oh, and it's not done yet. So it's not the lowest. They go even lower. They go even lower in a second. But shame on you, man. Gross.

[Ben Mandelker]

I. I just have a question. I saw an article and I read it, and it was about when you were first divorced and you didn't have physical or legal custody of your children in. And we say, fine. And Emily's like, I don't understand how someone like that has. How something like that happens. Because here in California, for you to lose both physical, legal, you have to be unfit or sign papers and say, I don't want anything to do with my kids. I'm so mad at Emily for. For like, really implying that Katie is the. Is the. Is the up one in the situation. I know someone right now. I know someone who is going through a very bitter situation, and the guy has money, and he's been able to paint her as, like, someone who's out of her mind and like a wackadoodle. And I'm so. I'm sorry, but, like, men have so much power in these situations. And. And the. When you are, like, men in the court, like, they. It's. They really control a lot of the narrative. And I think we've seen it a lot, and I'm sure there are many people in our audience who are like, I've been there, too. I'm mean, like, where. Where women are painted as being unfit. They're hysterical, they're incapable, they're not trustworthy. Whatever, whatever, whatever. Like, this is something that happens all the time, and it's so up and it's not fair. And Emily should know this. And the fact that Emily's like, well, the court said, well, you lost your rights. So I guess that means that you were the one who was bad. You were a bad mom. Probably Emily, who was sensitive. Sensitive over the implication that she drummed up that anyone was saying she was a bad mom because her kids were. Were blabb. And now she's going to imply here on this couch that Katie is a bad mom because the court took away her kids. It's so fucked up.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. When the big. The biggest rule on these shows is don't bring the children into it. And you start sobbing and crying and everybody makes a huge drama and Heather's crying and everyone's crying because they brought. They had the nerve to bring their children into it. To go to this level and call someone out. This is worse than we've seen ever. Somebody do on the show. You lost your custody. Why would you lose custody? That only happens when it's your fault. In Cal. In California. You must be a disgusting woman to lose custody.

[Ben Mandelker]

And you're really a family attorney. And like, you must. She must have dealt with this before.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like, especially as a family attorney. Yes, you're correct, actually.

[Ben Mandelker]

And like, when you, like, honestly, like when, honestly when you have a situation where you. There are many women again, because I know. I know one right now. It's like I'm friends with one of them. But like when you have a situation where all of a sudden, like, a woman gives up her career to raise the kid and then the guy does some, and now she's out on her own and she has like, no job or whatever because she gave it up to raise the kids, to do her part and of, of whatever arrangement that they had made. And now all of a sudden, like, she's the one who's unfit when the, when she was the one who had the rug pulled out from under her. Like, this happens all the time. And I'm not saying that's what happened in Katie's case. We don't know what happened in Katie's case. But Emily should know well enough. Enough that, like, just because the way the court ruled, both from the innocent project and from being a family attorney does not necessarily tell the full story of what's happening between these people.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes. And also, you know, we keep saying, oh, well, she's a family attorney, she should know. But you know what? All family attorneys are not created equal. Who's going against these women? Who's destroying these women in court and getting custody taken away? Women like Emily, men like Emily, attitudes like Emily's. So when we keep saying, well, she should know better, she's a family attorney, maybe she does know better. And that's why she's trying to destroy her like this in a way that she knows she can. You know, it's disgusting. It's really bad. So Andy's like, well, so Katie, what happened? And she says she was living in a facility and her parents who probably some kind of a home, as we've said, some kind of a shelter.

[Ben Mandelker]

We don't, we don't really know if it's a shelter or not. We don't really know what this means.

[Ronnie Karam]

But even that was where my.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's where my mind went.

[Ronnie Karam]

Her parents lived 20 minutes from her and couldn't help her because they wouldn't agree because she was divorcing her ex husband, which right to them is A sin. So he was immediately awarded the kids because she couldn't provide a place for them to live, which is 100% believable and also extremely sad.

[Ben Mandelker]

Commercials. Here comes one right now.

[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ben Mandelker]

You know, you have Emily here. Like you said before, we have sat through so many seasons of Emily talking about how her mom wasn't there for her. She had to do things on her own. Which, by the way, is sad. Like, you know, like, I'm not going to take that away from Emily. But, like, if you want us to hold space for your family trauma and what you've gone through and your struggles, like, why are, why are you being so unsympathetic here? And it's only because you've decided to just like, back up Gina. Because Gina was so mad that Katie said that she owned a house that she actually just was leasing to own.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, it's just outrageous. This all comes back to Heather just not liking someone said she called a paparazzi. When Katie didn't even start that Tamara did. And now Heather's besties with Tamara doing all of this. Just gross, people. So Emily's like, you're still coming at her. And Andy asked how she got custody back, and Katie said, well, she went to we, meaning her and Matt went to court a few times to fight it. And he said, and you built yourself a lie. I mean, I'm assuming she's talking about Matt.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know if it was Matt. She may have just been her like, attorney or something, because I don't know.

[Ronnie Karam]

At that point I was wondering, we, you know, what was we? So, okay, that makes sense. So then Andy was like, so you built up a life for yourself and got custody? She's like, yeah. And he said, well, how long were they in his custody? And it was 18 months. And Jen's like, but were you like, still co parenting or were you doing things with the kids? Thank you. Thank you. Finally we have like the defense coming in here. And she's like, yes, I never missed a time. I've never missed time with my kids. And that was horrible, horrible time. And now she's sobbing. And so Jen's like, I'm so sorry. And they, they leave it there. And then Heather, that dark cloud, funnel of skin and bones, comes up to her with her dark button eyes and looms above her and is like, katie, I am very sorry about the children. That must have been devastating. I don't know. The whole Story, but I wasn't going to bring that part up. Yes, you brought that. You did bring it up. You, Emily, made it worse. But you were part of this. Don't start trying to protect yourself now.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am very sorry. Well, thank. Thank you. I am speaking an apology to you. I'm very sorry. Okay, thanks. And, Gina, you look fucking gorgeous. How do you keep your vagina in your skirt? Oh, my God, are we having the best time today?

[Ronnie Karam]

When I say the word hate, I cannot. I cannot over exaggerate that enough. What a vile human being. Gross. So then we, after we've just ruined Katie, we take a break, and then Katie is like, you know, basically crying, and then, yeah, Heather. Oh, my God, I thought you were joking. Heather literally does go, Gina, you look fucking gorgeous. How you keep your vagina inside your scoop.

[Ben Mandelker]

So now it's time to move on to more fun things. Ryan's role in this scandal.

[Ronnie Karam]

This is downright innocent and fun at this point.

[Ben Mandelker]

It really is. No, I'm like, oh, thank God. Thank God. Just an FBI scandal. No children in traumatic past to be resurrected.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, I just want to say something really quick. I know that sometimes people listen to this, and we're a fun. We're supposed to be a fun podcast doing fun things, and that's normally how this is, but sometimes it just gets so dark, and I can't.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, I just. Sometimes I can't understand.

[Ronnie Karam]

Can't. And I get that that's not why you come here, but fuck Heather and Emily, you two monsters. I hate you. Okay, that's it.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't understand why we're so angry. It's almost like it's been a pretty chill week, so I don't know what's going on.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, it pops on your house.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, I would not call this a particularly emotional time right now, so.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, it could be projecting, but it could also just be two vile people continuing to get away with over and over, and nobody seems to care. Wow.

[Ben Mandelker]

And we are also.

[Ronnie Karam]

Sound familiar at all? Does it?

[Ben Mandelker]

We're also completely stoking each other on. And another thing, Rami. Another thing. Like, we are actually. Like, when I was watching, I was like, this is so up. But today, I'm like. Like I am spewing hellfire and brimstone. Because, like, you know what? Why not? Why not? So then. Okay, so let's move on. So Andy is like. It's like, all right, everyone. Well, Jen was betting it all on her future with Ryan and get it. See what I did there? Betting Tamara was dealing out accusations about Jen's future husband when Ryan found himself in the center of an international scandal. Well, so then we go into this whole thing and we have a montage about Ryan and this Otani situation and the gambling and the bookies and all this stuff. It's a big, big, big, big montage and everything. And when we come back, Andy's like, like, so did you consider breaking up your engagement when this happened? And Jen's like, no, no, no. I just know that day was hard. It was a hard day. Yoga studio was closed, so I couldn't do my, you know, vinyasa flow. And that was. That was difficult. And, you know, then. Oh, yeah, then there was that scandal with. With Ryan. But it's mainly the. The vinyasa. I was really upset about that day. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

And did Ryan say, I'm co cooperating with the authorities. I have immunity, don't worry. And she goes, oh, God, it was so long ago. I just. I'd already known all that. This had happened almost seven months prior to that. And he's like, so he. He was already working with the authorities. And she goes, oh, well, you know, he had those two zoom calls. Yeah, he had those. No, we don't know what the fuck are you talking about? Tell us more. Jen. Also, why is Jen talking? Didn't anybody tell Jen, don't talk. Don't talk about this stuff?

[Ben Mandelker]

So Tamara's like, yeah, but then, like, if he had a zoom calls, then why were you surprised when I mentioned the FBI? She goes, oh, well, you know, when. Well, that night I was, oh, sorry, that's Emily saying that. And. And Joan goes, well, because you mentioned the FBI, as if Ryan was in trouble with the feds, and, you know, ask him how the feds are going, you know, and like, Ryan and his attorney reached out to the feds, and the feds never reached out to Ryan. The feds never came to Ryan's home. Like, Ryan's been, you know, totally not in trouble whatsoever. He's just been working with the feds.

[Ronnie Karam]

Listen, Ryan, all Ryan does is splatter. Splatter denim with paint. I mean, who could be mad at that? And Sandy's like, well, they would have come to his home had he not cooperated. She goes, I don't know. I don't know. What do I know? And Heather's like, yeah, but remember, he was like, maybe she was talking about Matt as if he had no idea. And Emily's like, And sh. Says, yeah, as a person of experience, when you're involved In a lawsuit and you're on a reality show and it's ongoing. It's not. You shouldn't just sit there and say, oh, well, fingers with your circles. Circles with your fingers. Shannon, I can't stop.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's. It's actually my daily exercise. You know what? Yes. As a person of experience, and I'm not saying I'm. This is just because I'm being currently sued by John Jansen and Alexis Bolino, but it's mainly because I am being sued by John Janssen, Alexis Blino, twice now by Alexis. So I'm. I'm just processing that. Let me do the circles again just to get it out of the system.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, let's back it up. Jen, what did you mean when you said you it all up? Because they showed that clip of Jen being like, oh, my God, I just. I fucked it all up. She goes, well, I knew the article was coming and we were told we want to mention Ryan's name. And Ryan's attorney said that he wants it all known that I'm not a bookie in his, you know, the show Shohai Ohtani situation. And then so when it came out, I felt like this is on me because if I wasn't sitting on this couch, he wouldn't have been mentioned. I mean, it just would have been about Matt and Matt's business. But now, you know, people know who Ryan is, and so it's also about Ryan. I thought she was saying, I it all up because she was like, I left my husband and ruined my family for this man. But she wasn't. She was like, oh, no. I heard things for Ryan. By being on this show, I made.

[Ben Mandelker]

I made Ryan's complicity in this scandal much more hyper profile. I ruined it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Jen, come on.

[Ben Mandelker]

Man's like. But Ryan was involved. They were writing about and that's why he was mentioned. You know, I feel badly that you think that you're the reason and that he's being implicated is something that you did. That's not true. Women should not be victims. Katie, you're a terrible mom. Okay, so Jen is like. She's like, please not involved in Matt's bookie business. Not at all. He just merely received $16 million in his bank account out just kind of like as a joke. It's like a fun thing, you know? You know, boys will be boys.

[Ronnie Karam]

They just keep questioning her and she just keeps answering the questions. Well, you can say, listen, I'm telling you everything I've read and I've done as much research as possible. To understand it. So you have done research. So you are researching people in the cast. He is involved, and in order for him to have immunity, that means he testified. Okay, listen, Emily's right. Emily's. Emily's right. That's what I'm gonna say, too. Emily's right, and they're right. It's not that she's wrong about everything that she's saying. I think she's probably right in most of the stuff she's saying, but she's. So who makes it up to Emily to be everybody's judge and jury? Why does Emily get to decide everybody's guilty and then just drag them across the floor every season? Do something on your own. You have nothing going on except a husband who hates you with a very thin veil on.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so no, Emily has something going on. New hip. So then Andy. That's right. So. And he's like, well, then. So Jen's like, well, he never testified. And he's like, well, so then how did he get immunity?

[Ronnie Karam]

And.

[Ben Mandelker]

And, you know, Emily's like, well, probably he gave information about Matt so they could prosecute Match. No, but that's his best friend. He would never do that. Yeah, but you said he knew everything. He. Like, you said he. He said he knew everything about him. And then he's like, yeah, like, that's how you get immunity. And she's like, well, I don't. I don't know where everybody gets that idea that you just have to tell on someone else to get immunity. I think. I think you got immunity just by, you know. You know, bring some coffee to the FBI, Right?

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, you know what? We'll cue up my favorite song orchestra, because I'm about to say, good. I'm an attorney. Yeah, we know, Emily. Okay? And also, everybody knows how immunity works, because we watch mob movies, because we.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch 24, and we see the deals that Jack Bauer cut. Okay, we know what immunity is. So.

[Ronnie Karam]

But. But it's kind of like we're idiots.

[Ben Mandelker]

And it's like, okay, Jen, when you get immunity, it's because you are exchanging. Oh, like holiday exchange. Well, we did invite the FBI to our white elephant party, so maybe that's what that's about.

[Ronnie Karam]

I ended up with a vibrator, which was so funny because I gave a. A bag of crystals that I actually took down from the chandelier before I left the last half. Hey, wait a minute. That was my friend's house. Sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I think that you have to volunteer, and I think he had to volunteer the account. No immunity. Heather goes, it is an exchange of in for me, Sean.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, this is what he did. Here's the account out. Here's the computer. There's the account. There's the phone. Take it. Go ahead and take it. Like, yeah. And Emily goes, yeah, that's all I'm saying. And she's like, well, he submitted whatever they needed him to submit. Is that what you mean?

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, yeah. He told them all what Matt was up to. You know, I think. I don't think he actually ratted him out.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Andy says, well, can you explain what the dirty business is? And she goes, I don't know what the dirty business is. What's the dirty business? Where's the dirty business? Anybody?

[Ben Mandelker]

Anybody know Dirty Dancing? I love that movie. Okay, I'm an attorney.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Otani's interpreter has a gambling addiction. He makes all these bets with Matt. Matt is an illegal bookie, so he racked up a ton of bet. So then in order to pay his debts, the translator sold money, money, stole money out of Ohtani's account. So then we see articles that confirm this. And Elm is like, the money went into Ryan's account. It was between 15, 16 or 17 million. And it was in Ryan's name. Now, by the way, like, this is what I want, people. I don't understand why no one in this cast is critical of this. Like, is that the weirdest thing? Why would. If someone's not involved in a scheme, why would you put the money in just like a friend's account? Like, that does not make any sense.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think everybody agrees that Ryan's guilty.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, he flipped on his friend, clearly. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think that everybody agrees with the premise of this. I think that we just see Jen as kind of a victim in of Ryan because she's just Jen. I mean, she's like such a good hearted person. You want to root for Jen. And I don't believe she's like a Carmela Soprano type who knows what's going on is just turning a blind eye. Maybe she knows a little bit, but she just seems just so dingy about it. And she believes, like, she believes everything he tells her. And it just seems like we don't care if Ryan goes. I mean, we, the audience. I don't. I don't care if Ryan goes down. He seems like a slime bucket, but I don't want Jen to go down and I don't want Emily ruining Jen's life. Like, I just don't want it. I don't care if he did it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, Ryan moved the money into marker accounts and casinos specifically resorts were world and Pechanga. Now, hold on one moment. Sorry. The rule of Pachanga is you have to do the theme song when you mention it. It's just the way it goes. It's like you can't say oh without going oh, oh, oh, O'Reilly Auto Parts.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then Ryan moved all this money to marker accounts and casinos. Yeah, all that stuff. So then Jen's like, well, listen, I mean, how many times? 32, 40? I mean, I don't know how. I don't know so many numbers. And the reason Matt used that bank account was because he could only bank through bank of America and he didn't have a Bank of America account. So he used that account so he had no idea it was going to blow up. And be an, you know, an interpreter. I mean, whose money is this? And that? Oh, wait, let me finish. That's what Heather says, right? Gotta love her. So every dollar was accounted for by Matt, and Ryan's name was just on the account out. And Tamara's like, I get an alert every time I get $10,000. My account says, hey, you got money?

[Ben Mandelker]

This? I like that. Jen just says, well, you know, the, the exchange, you know, the, the money just the, the illegal bookie business had to be done with bank of America. And Matt didn't have a Bank of America account, so he thought I could either open one or I could just put $60 million in Ryan's account. That just seemed like the easier thing to do. Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Ronnie Karam]

Listen, I'm not here to attack Ryan, but basically she continues to attack Ryan. She explains that, you know, they were cashing in the chips, that they were turning all this money into chips at casinos and then cashing them in. And then they lost $12 million gambling. Jen's like, well, I've read a million different things, you know, And Emily says, and then they were laundering the money. And then at the party, then Matt said, this is my laundering partner. Says, oh, you know that he just jokes. He's being funny. Like he's making fun of it, you know, he's being dumb. It's like, oh, look, this is the money launderer. Is that funny? I think it's funny.

[Ben Mandelker]

But he has a criminal enterprise going on. And he says, this is my money laundering partner. Well, you know, it's just the money. It's just that, look, you can't actually clean money like just the word. The phrase money laundering is Kind of a joke, right? You don't just put it into your whirlpool and just let it rip. Right? I mean, so I don't know why people aren't seeing that comedy here.

[Ronnie Karam]

She goes, the money. The money's not Ryan's. We know.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's the point.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Emily's like, I know. And Andy goes, well, but he's also given immunity. So, you know. And he's not being charged, Andy, he's not being charged. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. Thank you so much.

[Ben Mandelker]

Emily. I would, as someone currently being sued who is not immune from literally anything in this world world, who currently has peanuts in her house poisoning her. Emily. If she's saying that the only part that Ryan had is his name was on the account, that's all it is. I don't understand what's going on here. Also, I'd like to point out Alexis Bulino is suing me. Just want to just keep it that as a present runner in this.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Emily's like, but that's opposite of everything I've wrote. And Jen goes, well, I'm sorry. I mean, I've read your in laws fund your whole life. The way that she literally gagged this woman, Emily just stopped and looked like she caught a canary.

[Ben Mandelker]

She was just like, Jen just pulled that up out of nowhere. It was like, it was like, like, wait, Jen, like. And she's had this entire conversation to bring that up, but then out of nowhere she brings it up right here. And I was like, oh, it's like.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's like Jen tried to be nice to her and Emily just won't stop. So she shuts Emily up, which is so funny. And Emily has nothing to say. She doesn't deny that. And it was glorious. I think she's one of the first people to ever shut Emily up. You know, so she acts like some weakling, but at the end of the day, she can shut that monster up.

[Ben Mandelker]

It literally is squirting a cat with a water gun that gets on the counter. Okay, I'll go back down to the floor. So, I mean, she gets Emily to do the pivot with the old classic. Look, at the end of the day.

[Ronnie Karam]

You got nothing for nothing. And that's all you can say for the life of the Genos.

[Ben Mandelker]

For you and Ryan, if you said to me, you know what, he made some bad choices, but he's going to be on the straight and narrow.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's not your business. No one needs to come come confess to you. You're not the criminal justice system, okay? Copyright attorney. Shut the up over there. No one needs to do that. And how about you stop. And how. Yeah, you married Shane. And how about you stop asking everybody to come confuse confess crimes on camera? Emily, what are you talking about?

[Ben Mandelker]

I just want you to confess.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I'm sure you do, Emily. Okay, but that's not how this works. And also Innocence Project. Hello.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, I don't. She's like, I don't owe you that because he hasn't done anything wrong. How is he not. Does he have a mortgage broker. Mortgage broker license anymore? You know what? I don't know why you'd love to do this. I don't ask you how many cases does Shane have? We're just. I would like.

[Ronnie Karam]

This is not a great argument. Yeah, Shane doesn't even, you know, drink more than seven up. You know what I mean? So she goes, well, it's just this Tammy why not thing where you got to stand by your man and sometimes you just need to be held. You just need to be accountable. No, she doesn't. Not to you. Do you understand? She doesn't have to be accountable to you. Who are you?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, so that was the end. Jen's like, I'm very accountable. Although my. Maybe my accounting is not so great.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm not countable. Well, I'm one person. I am countable. Look at me. I'm one person.

[Ben Mandelker]

One.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, thank you so much for showing me I'm countable. This was a really, really productive day, Andy.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Emily, for reminding.

[Ronnie Karam]

Thank you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you. That was it for the first episode. It was. Wow. We really were. We wound ourselves up and that's fun. That's a fun thing to do as podcasters. So thanks everyone for listening. Hope you all have a sane and fun weekend and we'll be back on Monday for a whole fresh new week of Bravo recaps. Bye, everybody.

[Ronnie Karam]

Bye, everybody. Love you guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what crappins would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King Ashley.

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[Ronnie Karam]

She ain't no shrinking violet Coutar we love you guys. If you like, watch what crappins. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery App or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail].

[Ben Mandelker]

Have you ever wondered who created that bottle of Sriracha that's living in your fridge? Or why nearly every house in America has at least one game of Monopoly? Introducing the best idea yet. A brand new podcast about the surprising origin stories of the products you're obsessed with. Listen to the best idea yet on the Wonder App or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lindsey Graham, host of Wondery show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US History. Presidential lies, Environmental disasters, Corporate fraud.

[Ronnie Karam]

In our latest series, entrepreneur Lou Pearlman.

[Ben Mandelker]

Becomes the mastermind behind two of the.

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[Ronnie Karam]

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