#2704 Southern Hospitality S03E04: Hitting a Wall

Summary

Watch What Crappens Episode #2704: Southern Hospitality S03E04 - Hitting a Wall

Release Date: January 27, 2025

In Episode #2704 of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve into the latest episode of Bravo’s reality series Southern Hospitality, titled "Hitting a Wall." This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the show's fourth episode in Season 3, capturing the intricate dynamics among the cast members and the unfolding drama that keeps viewers hooked.

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Episode Overview

Southern Hospitality Season 3 Episode 4, "Hitting a Wall," takes place at a luxurious lake house where tensions and relationships among the cast members reach a boiling point. Ben and Ronnie break down the key events, character interactions, and pivotal moments that drive the episode's narrative.

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Key Plot Points and Discussions

Pool Day Shenanigans [04:48 - 07:05]

The episode kicks off with the cast spending a sunny day by the pool, engaging in typical Summer activities like playing games and taking pictures. Ben notes, “It's pool day at Lake's house. And so they're getting in the pool, stuff like that. Just playing games of chicken” (04:48). This seemingly carefree setting soon sets the stage for deeper conflicts.

• TJ and Joe's Tension [05:14 - 07:05]: A flashback reveals TJ admitting to Joe, "I guess I shouldn't have said that Joe slept with Luann" (05:14). This confession sparks tension, highlighting underlying issues within the group.

Austin's Image Struggle [06:28 - 07:45]

Austin's physical appearance becomes a topic of conversation. Molly remarks, “Austin is totally ripped” (06:28), juxtaposed with his personality struggles. Ronnie humorously points out, “poor Austin. It's like a log lifter. Gets no respect these days” (06:28), underscoring the disconnect between his looks and how he's perceived.

• Lake's Shifting Interests [07:05 - 07:45]: Lake exhibits inconsistent behavior towards Brad, flipping from seeing him as an art student to finding him "so hot" (07:05). This inconsistency raises questions about her true intentions and affections.

Emmy and Michaels' Confrontation [09:00 - 13:32]

A significant portion of the episode centers around Emmy's strained relationship with Will and her confrontational interaction with Michaels. Ben summarizes, “Michaels is like, I know, but I'm telling you right now, like, my first interaction with him was not good at all” (11:05).

• Emmy's Emotional Breakdown [09:00 - 16:18]: Emmy expresses deep dissatisfaction with her relationship, leading to a heated argument where she feels unheard and unsupported. Notable quote: “I am not being heard” (14:49) illustrates her frustration.

• Group Dynamics and Support Systems [16:18 - 26:13]: Ben and Ronnie analyze how the group attempts to support Emmy, revealing fractures in their friendships. Ronnie remarks, “This has nothing to do with Will. And it's, like, hurtful for my best friend to, like, not listen to me” (12:48), highlighting the complexity of their relationships.

Brad and Michaels in the Kitchen [13:32 - 20:37]

Ben and Ronnie observe the trio's interactions in the kitchen, focusing on Brad's cooking mishap and Michaels' unwavering dedication. A humorous yet telling moment occurs when Brad says, “I'm gonna be 22. She's like, I have extravagant birthdays” (16:50), reflecting his desire to impress and fit in.

• Humorous Cooking Fiasco [19:18 - 20:37]: Brad’s attempt to cook chicken leads to Emmy questioning his culinary skills: “I don't think this chicken is cooked through” (19:28). This scene serves as a metaphor for the broader issues within the group—attempts to take control often end in chaos.

Emmy’s Emotional Turmoil [26:13 - 34:44]

The heart of this episode lies in Emmy’s emotional struggle with her relationship. Ben highlights Emmy's plea, “I don't want to deal with these people. They don't care about me” (28:23), showcasing her isolation.

• Will's Absence and Emmy’s Desperation [28:23 - 34:44]: Emmy's interactions reveal her feeling of abandonment and betrayal, not only by Will but also by her friends who seem unable to comprehend her pain. A poignant moment occurs when she sobs on the floor, exclaiming, “I'm happy with you. What is. No one get that?” (31:04), depicting her internal conflict and search for validation.

Joe's Pool Accident and Its Aftermath [37:03 - 41:43]

A lighter yet significant subplot involves Joe's accident in the pool. Ben narrates, “Joe Bradley's done it. Let’s see” (38:03), as Joe crashes into the wall, leading to humorous yet reflective moments about his clumsiness and its symbolic representation of the episode's themes.

• Friendship Strain [43:19 - 50:06]: The fallout from the pool incident exacerbates existing tensions. Ben notes, “It's infuriating that two people we love failed to protect us from the harm I'm seeing Emmy go through right now” (42:26), emphasizing the group's struggle to maintain solidarity amidst personal conflicts.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ronnie Caram at [05:14]:

  "I guess I shouldn't have said that Joe slept with Luann."

• Ben Mandelker at [07:05]:

  "Brad's like, Lake and I have already been on a date. We had a little flirting, but at this point, balls in her court."

• Emmy’s Emotional Appeal at [14:49]:

  “I am not being heard.”

• Lake on Her Birthday at [16:50]:

  “I'm gonna be 22. I have extravagant birthdays. Last year I was in the club in New York.”

• Emmy’s Breakdown at [31:04]:

  “I'm happy with you. What is. No one get that?”

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Themes and Insights

Ben and Ronnie highlight several recurring themes in this episode:

1. Communication Breakdown: Emmy’s struggles stem from a lack of effective communication, both with Will and her friends. Ben emphasizes, “Everything is just so wonderful” (25:35), sarcastically pointing out the facade vs. reality.

2. Friendship Dynamics: The episode showcases the complexities of friendship when tested by personal issues. Ronnie remarks, “They are kind of bad friends, though. Would you be pissed if your friends went to your boyfriend and were like, oh, my God, Ben talks about you?” (42:38).

3. Identity and Image: Austin’s character grapples with his image versus reality, a point Ben underscores with, “She’s trying on different personalities in every scene” (07:18).

4. Emotional Vulnerability: Emmy’s emotional vulnerability and the group’s inability to adequately support her highlight the challenges of navigating personal crises within a social circle.

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Conclusion

In "Hitting a Wall," Southern Hospitality delves deep into the interpersonal conflicts and emotional struggles of its cast members. Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam adeptly dissect the episode, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the characters’ motivations and the show’s underlying tensions. This episode serves as a microcosm of the broader themes of communication, friendship, and personal identity that are central to reality TV drama.

For those who haven’t tuned into Southern Hospitality, Ben and Ronnie’s insightful commentary offers a compelling glimpse into the episode's dynamics, making it a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

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Notable Timestamp References:

• 05:14 – TJ confesses to Joe about Luann
• 07:05 – Brad and Lake discuss their date
• 14:49 – Emmy expresses feeling unheard
• 16:50 – Lake talks about her birthday
• 31:04 – Emmy's emotional plea

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Disclaimer: This summary excludes advertisements, promotional content, and non-content sections to focus solely on the episode's substantive discussions and insights.

Transcript

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Keke Palmer]

Hey y'all, it's your girl Keke Palmer. And let me tell you, we're kicking off this new year with a whole new mindset. If you're ready for that new year new mindset energy you've got to tune in to baby. This is Keke Palmer. If you're looking for more podcasts to help you tend to your well being, check out new year, new mindset on the wondery app.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what happens. Watch what happens. Who cares what happens? Hello and welcome to Watch with Crap Ins, a podcast about all that crap on Bravo that we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker and joining me, as always, is someone who thankfully has not crashed into a wall in a pool. Ronnie Caram. How are you, sir?

[Ronnie Caram]

It does happen to the men on Bravo a bit.

[Ben Mandelker]

It does. It does. I'm starting to hatch a theory. I'm starting to hatch a theory. What's going on? How are you, Ronnie?

[Ronnie Caram]

Good. How are you doing?

[Ben Mandelker]

Doing great, thanks. Very excited. We got the Crappies coming up. Very nervous. We have so much, so much that is going on, but it's going to be a tremendous show. Get tickets to [e-mail] we are also streaming it with Kiswee, so the streaming access is also on the website. And don't forget to vote. Vote for your fav. Some of the categories are incredibly close, like separated by 25 votes. And there's already been like 14,000 people who voted. So it's really close. Every vote matters. So go check that out.

[Ronnie Caram]

And then this Saturday, guys. This Saturday.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So I know you've been hearing about it a long time because in the future, it is not. It is now. You're in the now. Live in the now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And then after the Golden Crappies, by the way, just so you know, that's going to stay up as a video on demand for two weeks. So if you can't tune in live, that's okay. You can still watch for two weeks afterwards. Also, we're going to go to Salt Lake City and to Denver the weekend following the Crappies. Not even the weekend. It'll be like a Thursday and Friday. It's a quick turnaround. So come join us. We'd love to see everyone so excited to go back to Salt Lake City. That's where my nephew is. That's where he's going to college, which is so sweet. So I'll get to see my nephew, hopefully. And it's going to be a great, great time. So go do all those things. Today we are talking about Southern hospitality, which continues its tremendous third season. Every episod has been, like, just so excellent. And you ready to dive into this rondel?

[Ronnie Caram]

Let's do it. We're still at the lake. Lake house. And we get a song. Everybody, everybody, everybody want to put me in a box? Put me in a box. And it's pool day at Lake's house. And so they're getting in the pool, stuff like that. Just playing games of chicken. TJ's posing for some pictures. And then Joey, Maddie and Michaels have a little talk.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hey, so what were you and, like, TJ talking about? What are you talking about? Like, me and stuff, you know, we.

[Ronnie Caram]

See a flashback of TJ being like, I guess I shouldn't have said that Joe slept with Luann. And Joe's like, yeah, I've been willing to talk with tj. I've tried, but, like, he won't talk me back. So. And then we see clips of that. Like, today, you want to talk now, tj, we need to talk now. Tj, be mad and talk to me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Joe's like, well, hopefully he's ready to talk to me because, like, I miss him. So. And then Michaels is looking out the edge of this infinity pool, and he's like, there's the boat. Like, I'm literally dying right now. Like, I cannot breathe. There's, like, a boat in the lake right now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Ah.

[Ben Mandelker]

And now we see the boat people, and it's like. It's like the boat people are like, I think Emmy and Lake and Austin and maybe, maybe not Emmy, but Molly and Siobhan, etc. So they're all, like, all the new people except Bradley and Molly. Like, Austin has, like, is totally ripped. So Molly's like, oh, my God, Austin is, like, so hot. But, like, don't worry, I'm not sitting on that. But I would if he had a different personality.

[Ronnie Caram]

Jeez, poor Austin. It's like a log lifter. Gets no respect these days. So then it cuts to Austin, and to prove that his personality sucks, he's making, like, a little sand castle.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So then Brad's like, swimming. Yeah, yeah. He has ambitions now, Brad swimming. And Lake's like, oh, my God, Brad is, like, so hot now. This is a different lake today. Last week, Lake was like, huh. I'm like, like an art student. And this week she's like, oh, my God, I'm like, not gonna make a move on him. Like, he has to make a move on me first. Okay, but so it's like, okay, so we have a new lake this episode.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. She's trying on different personalities in every scene. It's weird because this one, she's that. And then we get Dawsey, like, it's my birthday. Like, we get a little bit of that later on. She's just trying on a bunch of different. I mean, she's young, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I like, I Like, all of them, to be honest. So, yeah, she's like, brad's got to make a move on me first. And then Siobhan's like, yeah, but you've already been on a date. He has made the move. She's like, huh? What? I don't get that.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, this is Charleston. A guy bought you dinner, so you should be pregnant by now and dumped. So. And Brad's like, lake and I have already been on a date. We had a little flirting, but at this point, balls in her court. Guys want to be wanted, too.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, all right, sir. So Lake is like. I mean, he expects a kiss from just dinner. Okay? My dad can take me to dinner. I've had dates where I've woken up in a chateau in France, and he brought me pastries and flowers to wake up to. Brad, step up your game.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, honey. Like, well, not on this show.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, there will be no chateaus. There will be no pastries. But also, why aren't you pastry guy.

[Ronnie Caram]

Who'S delivering the pastries, and he's drunk, and his boxers are hanging out of the back of his pants. Like, that's. That's the show that you're on right now. Okay, this is not. This is not a chateau in France kind of a show, lady.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, no, and also, how'd you not lock that down? Now you're back in Charleston, hoping that, like, the assistant manager, like, in that club.

[Ronnie Caram]

Also, I got. Got kind of jealous because I was like, wow, I've never had anything like that happen. I mean, to me, if somebody's like, what's your name? I'm like, oh, my God, he loves me. That's it. That was the most romantic thing. I've this guy for two weeks, and he finally asked my name. You guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

You guys. So the boat people decide they're gonna go back to the house, but, like, they're like, come on, Austin, Hurry up. Leave your sand castle. He's, like, really dedicated to a sand castle.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, he's the first man on this show we've ever seen build anything.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's true.

[Ronnie Caram]

So I'm gonna say, team Austin. I'm gonna say that right now. So Joe and Maddie are making out in the pool, and TJ's just watching the boat come in. You know, like, I met the old man of the sea, the old vacuuming man in the sea. And we just hear Molly go, tj, I wish you were stray. I'm not being mistreated by enough men in this town.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Michaels pulls Emmy for a chat. He's like, hey, girl. Okay. All right, so we're gonna be ready to sit down. Okay, great. Okay. And. And then, like, Emmy gives him, like, a big smile. Like, are we gonna talk about how great Will is?

[Ronnie Caram]

It's the best dog. I cannot wait to talk to you right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

So before I say anything, I want you to be open minded about what I say and be receptive. And I had to take a couple of days to figure word everything because, like, I don't want to hurt your feelings. And also, I was, like, low key devastated by the coffee that TJ got me three days ago. So, like, I was processing, and I think I'm, like, ready to tell you this now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. Like, I just want to make sure you're okay. Like, is my friend, like, suffering in her relationship? And Emmy's like, wow. Wow. Okay. Okay. So I'm laughing because Will's my person and he's my everything. Like, he's my safe space. He's like my Windex from the windows are dirty. Like, he's literally everything. He's a bun to my hot dog. I mean, what? What?

[Ben Mandelker]

He is the sham to my. Wow. So Michaels is like, I know, but I'm telling you right now, like, my first interaction with him was not good at all, to say the least. Completely terrible. Like, awful, bad admission reactions.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's just like, what? What? He's like, yeah, he just came into the bar and he was like, I'm so miserable. Emmy's anorexic. I'm just in a completely different place than Emmy is. Emmy smells like a toenail that you finally cut after, like, four months of it needing to be cut. Like, Emmy works at 24, 7. She only cares about herself and her body. Like, you know, Polly want to crack her. You know what I mean? It pissed me off, the level of disrespect. And she's like, yeah, well, come on, Will, tell me what he said. He totally told me all that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Although maybe not that cracker part, which is kind of upsetting because I told him, no more crackers, no carbs. And she goes, I just, you know, I don't want to say I don't have self respect. It's just that I know Will. Like, I know you, right? What's your name again? Okay. I give him the grace because I know he is, like, deflecting his own sadness with the stress. He's in law school because as we all know, the best partners in life are the ones who are going to take the stress in their lives. Deflect it and put it on to you. So, like, it's all good. Everything is fine.

[Ronnie Caram]

I mean, you don't disrespect somebody who wears a highlighter behind their ear. He's a lawyer, so you might want to back it up. So she tells us. Yeah, like, Will told me he vented to his friends. Like, I mean, come on. Like, what, is law school right for me? Is Emmy right for me? You know, just normal stuff. And I knew he was embarrassed about it because, like, I knew he didn't. He knew I didn't deserve it. So, like, I forgive him. I forgive him. Like, the end. Roll the credits. It's over now we're happy. Happily ever after. This is it.

[Ben Mandelker]

The season's basically over. Let's just get to the reunion, right? I mean, because, look, Michaels, if there was something toxic going on, I would tell you in a heartbeat. Like, what is going on? That's toxic. That's the girls at work, by the way. The backstabbing, the inability to trust people, the girls not being able to trust me if I felt very betrayed. And the fact that they didn't trust me, that they thought my character was. Was shaded. Hurt.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hurt.

[Ben Mandelker]

That hurt a lot. See, I can deflect too well.

[Ronnie Caram]

This has nothing to do with Will. And it's, like, hurtful for my best friend to, like, not listen to me and make me feel like I'm not heard. Michaels, you don't love how he switches it around. He's like, I haven't been hurt in this situation, and now I'm very hurt. It's like, let's hug. Let's hug it. I love you. I'll always listen to you. I will always listen to you. Don't talk. Don't talk anymore. You're done. This scene's over. Okay, great talk.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bye. So now everyone's getting ready for dinner and stuff, and Joe's like, what am I gonna do with my hair? I forgot my blow dryer. I'd rather forget my phone charger than my blow dryer. Like, you'll probably just slick it back like you normally do. I don't know what the big issue is here.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So then in the kitchen, Brad, TJ and Michaels are in there, and they're sorting out groceries and stuff. And Brad's like, the fruits are upstairs. Could you go up, grab those? Tj I need to have a private conversation with Michaels. So he goes. And he goes, don't forget the butt rub. So, you know, I said, bat rub. Michaels is like, yeah, the butt rub.

[Ben Mandelker]

Is, like, wild you can give TJ a butt rub tonight. He's like, no, I don't do the butt rub because I get straight down to business. So then Michaels is examining a bag of frozen wings and says, bake them for 50 minutes. He's like, that's, like, a long time. I think they'll be faster on the grill. I'm like, yeah, but they're frozen. Thaw them. Thaw them, and then do the grill. But don't. Don't grill frozen chicken, sir.

[Ronnie Caram]

Okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hate to break it to you. You're all gonna die.

[Ronnie Caram]

So I had a conversation with Emmy. He's like, well, was it well received? No. And TJ's back now. He's like, but did she, like, listen to you at least? He's like, no. She just, like, sat there and, like, laughed about it with a fake smile. And I'm like, what about this is funny? I mean, I'm not being heard. Is there a laugh track? There shouldn't be.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't. I mean, I get why she's laughing, because I'm famously probably the most hilarious person here in this house, and I'm actually, like, a little hurt that no one's laughing at my jokes. I just told a joke right now, and no one laughed.

[Ronnie Caram]

Wow. So now he's in the bathroom, like, putting on her outfit, and she's, like, looking at herself in the mirror, talking to Will on FaceTime. She's like, oh, my God, Will, do you like my dress? It looks good, right? It's like gold. Wouldn't you like it? He's like, yeah, gold's your. I mean, I guess it's not silver for you. It's gold. I was like, yeah, pretty much. Miss you. Miss you, honey. Miss you. And it's just a really long pause. The editors put up a timer. It's like. And he doesn't answer. He's like, so, how's the lake? Oh, my God, it's so good. So pretty. Just called to say I love you. Okay, bye. Oh, my God. You like my dress? Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caram]

Scored.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, Emmy. So now TJ is like, I just feel so bad because she's, like, exhausting herself to, like, cover up. That's like, okay if it's not okay, right? Brad's like, I mean, we're not talking, saying you have to break up, but just, like, talk. Yeah, because they, like, never talk. And also, if they want to break up, that'd be cool, too. And TJ says I'm equally friends with both of them, but, like, will, you know, will I've gone, like, I've gone. I've grown closer and more close with like Emmy at this point. Like the point where I'm like, protective of her. Like, I'll vacuum for her. Like that's what I'll do for her more than ever before.

[Ronnie Caram]

So then we go to the backyard where Joe is blow drying wings on the grill. He's like, well, I found one. Found one. Amazing. And then Lake's like, oh my God, guys, I'm gonna be 22. She's like, I have extravagant birthdays. Like last year I was in the club in New York. It was so crazy. Everyone came. And then we got like, really wild. And then we got kicked out the club, which was like, crazy. But now I'm like in my house, so I can't get kicked out of my mom's house for having too much fun.

[Ben Mandelker]

And then her dad shows up. It's like, what's going on here? We go to break thinking like he's going to kick everyone out. Like it's like her worst nightmare. But it turns out he's actually really cool. And he's like, hey everybody. And there's like hugs. And she's like, oh, my God, Dad. And I'm also feeling old cuz he looks like he's our age. I'm like, oh my God. That the parents were the same age as parents on this show in these shows now.

[Ronnie Caram]

I know. And Lake's like, yeah, just looking around and making sure guys have their, their shirts on. Cuz, you know, manners. Like, we're really big on manners in this house. Okay, yeah, let's just. Let's just wait and see how long that lasts. And she's like, yeah, so dad, I was telling them I was named after the lake. And her dad's like, yeah, I made Lakey at this lake better. Speaking of manners, like, yeah, I fucked her mom. You know, I inseminated her mother at this place. God, that was good.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. But this is her mom and stepdad's house, so whatever. And she talks about how they have a blended family. And then like she just has like a million siblings from.

[Ronnie Caram]

We were gonna name her Lake or spray and pray. Couldn't really. Couldn't really figure out which one. Glad we went with Lake. It's easier to find on the keychain.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then Maddie meets Lake. Stepmom Nicole. I'm DJ Maddie Reese. And Lake is saying that she and her dad are like the same person because he's like, loving and loud, but can also be strict. So anyway, He's. He's. He's just there, and he's like.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's trying to lay down the law with Joey Marbles. And Joey's like, don't worry. I'm like, you don't have to worry about me. I'm not even with her. And the dad's like, well, who do I have to worry about? He's like, oh, I mean, there are just, like, so many. I shouldn't have said that, right? Oh, blow dry. Do you blow dry your hair?

[Ben Mandelker]

Joe is like, my work brother. Dad. He's like, yeah, work brother. And I have a sister her age. So I guess I'm trying to say is I. I guess I would my sister if given the chance. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Joey Marbles. Okay. We're like, sorry, sorry. I just have a really fascinating love life that you'll see on this show very soon.

[Ronnie Caram]

Joe said he would his sister. Dude, could you stop throwing me under the bus for, like, five minutes? What?

[Ben Mandelker]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Ronnie Caram]

I had a weak moment.

[Ben Mandelker]

It. So basically, the dad leaves, and now it's time for dinner. It's time for the White party. And so Brad's like, this is like, the Republic White party. It's better than Labor Day. It's Lake's birthday.

[Ronnie Caram]

So now they're applauding. Joe's like, h. Everybody clap for the booger Bathu. Okay. Brad's like, yeah, I appreciate it. I got dressed up for you, Lake. And it's like, yeah, he's hot. And then Emmy takes one pick at the chicken. She's like, I don't think this chicken is cooked through. Guys, guys, I don't know if the wings are cooked. It's Joe who did it. Joe did it. I'm like, joe, you don't know how to cook chicken. She's mortified.

[Ben Mandelker]

No. Only Nanny's chicken parm. So Brad is like. He's like, yeah, well, he wants to be manly. He wants to be part of it. And he's like, yeah, but in what world is the sous chef responsible for the main course? It's on Bradley. All right. You're all idiots. How about that? It's all. It's. It started with Michaels, and it trickled down to YouTube.

[Ronnie Caram]

I love that. Brad's like, he wants to feel like a man, so I let him cook the wings. Yeah. Like, so manly. Now I make wings, you guys. So, like, I don't mind a little salmonella. And Molly goes, honestly, salmonella is a really pretty name if it wasn't what it was. And then she looks right At Austin she goes. Same with chlamydia. Are you flirting? What is that?

[Ben Mandelker]

I know everyone's like, huh, Salmonella commercials.

[Ronnie Caram]

Here comes one right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

UFO lands in Suffolk and that's official.

[Ronnie Caram]

Said the News of the World.

[Ben Mandelker]

But what really happened across two nights.

[Ronnie Caram]

In December 1980 when US servicemen saw.

[Ben Mandelker]

Mysterious lights in the forest near RAF Woodbridge and claimed to have had a close encounter with an actual craft? Encounters, a new podcast available exclusively on Wondery plus, takes a deep dive into one of the most famous and still unresolved UFO encounters to ever take place in the uk.

[Ronnie Caram]

Featuring shocking testimony from first hand witnesses.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hosts, journalist, podcaster and UFO researcher Andy McVillan, that's me. And producer El Scott take us back to the nights in question and examine all of the evidence and conflicting theories about what was encountered in the middle of a Snowy suffering forest 40 years ago. Are we alone?

[Ronnie Caram]

Encounters is a podcast which is going to find out.

[Ben Mandelker]

Listen to Encounters exclusively and ad free on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or in Apple Podcasts.

[Keke Palmer]

Hey, y'all, it's your girl, Keke Palmer. And let me tell you, we're kicking off this new year with a whole new mindset. You know how everyone's all about New Year, new me. Well on, baby. This is Keke Palmer. We're taking it to a whole other level. We're talking new Year, new perspectives, and honey, it's gonna change your life. I sat down with astrology queen Chani Nicholas, Y'all, if you wanna understand yourself better this year, this episode is it. And then there's my chat with the incredible Da Vinci where nothing was off the table. If you're looking to level up your mindset this year, his words are definitely gonna hit different. If you're ready for that new year new mindset energy you've gotta tune in to, baby. This is Keke Palmer. Catch it on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And for the full experience, head to my YouTube channel. If you're looking for more podcasts to help you tend to your wellbeing, check out New Year New Mindset on the Wondery app. Let's make this year our best one yet, baby. Welcome to the offensive line. You guys on this podcast, we're gonna make some picks, talk some, and hopefully make you some money in the process. I'm your host, Annie Hagar. So here's how this show's gonna work, okay? We're gonna run through the weekly slate of NFL and college football matchups, breaking them down into very serious categories like no offense. No offense, Travis Kelce, but you gotta step up your game. If Pat Mahomes is saying the Chiefs need to have more fun this year, we're also handing out a series of awards and making picks for the top storylines surrounding the world of football. Awards like the He May have a Point award for the wide receiver that's most justifiably bitter. Is it Brandon Aiyuk T. Higgins or devontae Adams? Plus, on Thursdays, we're doing an exclusive bonus episode on Wondry where I share my fantasy football picks ahead of Thursday Night Football and the weekend's matchups. Your fantasy league is as good as Locked in. Follow the offensive line on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can access bonus episodes and listen ad free right now by joining Wondery.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Michaels is like, anyway, TJ's like, oh, by the way, everyone, Mia FaceTime me. She placed fifth, so she lost. We can all make fun of her when she gets back. Oh, good. Yay.

[Ronnie Caram]

Her mother in in in Celebration sent her five Big Macs and said, might as well.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Joe is like, yeah, I saw a clip where she was like standing next to someone who got the award and she was like, oh, it's just like in the movies. It's like, thanks for the observation.

[Ronnie Caram]

So, so now everyone's like, oh my God. Joe and TJ just talked. This is crazy. So then we get like little flute music playing some reason, and Maddie's like, baby steps. So Molly's asking if Emmy talked to Will today, and she's like, yeah, of course I did. Every day. He's my person. I'm just 1-800-my-person. It's Will never had to pay a dime for those calls. He's a lawyer. You guys. You guys, do you guys need anything highlighted? Because he's like, mar.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, he's at work right now at Broad Street. It's where all the lawyers work. So it's kind of like I just call it Wall street because it's lawyer town. You know what I'm saying? God. Married to a Lawyer soon decided that.

[Ronnie Caram]

Her this is kind of Peter and the Wolf because we got the fleet flute music for TJ and Joe. And now Emmy is talking. So they just start playing a tambourine, which I don't think I've ever heard as a music cue for a character in one of these shows. But it actually works for Emmy because it's just like shaky, like, everything's ok. Hey, I'm on the beat it's like you never are, you know, Guys, he.

[Ben Mandelker]

Literally has, like, this much reading to do today because of, like, cases and stuff. God, lawyer life, am I right? TJ's like, oh, well, how was your guys talk today? I was like, oh, with Michaels, like, it was good. We had a good talk. We just, like, talked about how, like, Will's my person. How he does actually, like, loves me so much. The more he talks about me is actually his way of showing care. So, like, just. Everything's just so wonderful.

[Ronnie Caram]

I don't know. I feel like you gave me the run around. Let me tell you, I felt really unheard.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, guys, I don't feel comfortable having this conversation at this table, so let's just, like, stop it right now because, like, Will really likes me and he likes this outfit. So please, no more of this conversation.

[Ronnie Caram]

But the thing is, like, it involves all of us, so you just don't know it yet. So, like, we should all talk about it. Michael's like, yeah, because, like, everyone at this table really cares about you, even the unheard people, and we want to make sure you're okay. I mean, we're going to put it in writing now, so maybe you'll read it since you won't listen to people.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm okay. Like, Will is not okay. And Will is not here to speak for himself. And I'm okay. I'm okay. Will's not okay. So if Will's not okay, I'm not okay. But I am okay, so I guess I am okay. Here's the thing. At the end of the day, I am going to be marrying a lawyer. So I don't want to hear from anyone. I object to all of you sustained by me.

[Ronnie Caram]

They're like, but we want to know about you. She goes, that's what I meant. Okay, look, guys, guys, let me put it this way. I go home at night. Will is my safe person, okay? And that's it. Like, we're totally great.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay. Okay. Okay. All of us have been in different situations, and we have heard Will talk really negative about you, and we just want to make sure you talk about it.

[Ronnie Caram]

That. That hilarious. Okay, he came to me right after Republic, and he told me immediately what he said to you. Gu on, what he said to Siobhan, what he said to Michaels, what he said to the guy who brings the ice back and forth from the ice place to the other place. So the guy says the cuts. Cuts the letters for the sign, you know, I mean, all of you, pretty much. I mean, does that include everyone Leva, Leah, you know everybody. And just like, well, what do you say? He said that he can't make me happy and that I work out too much. I mean, big deal.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, it's like, that's not what I heard. Molly's like, yeah. Michael's. Be honest. Say, Michaels, I said. I told you what he said. Tell her what he said, Michaels.

[Ronnie Caram]

He said he's not happy in the relationship. You're not his end all be all. And you're obsessed with yourself, and you're basically like a wet chick. You're like a wet Triscuit.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he's like, okay. Everyone is claiming to be Will's friend, and Will is, like, not even here. So, like, I hear what you're saying Will said about me, and instead of focusing on that and confronting it, I'm just going to say you're all being bad friends to Will right now. He's my person. He's literally my lawyer person. Okay?

[Ronnie Caram]

Bang, bang. She starts banging the table. And she's like, is not here. So I'm not comfortable having a conversation without Will. And Michael goes, relax. And she's like. She gets up and, like, tosses a chair. And he's like, calm. Let's just be calm to not get aggravated. She goes, talk to me privately. Then. And, like, storms out.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, talk to me privately. And then she. People start to stand up. And then she goes, but not now. Don't talk to me right now, please. But at a future time, talk to me privately. But not now, not now.

[Ronnie Caram]

And, like, goes, oh, great. It's about me. Well, happy birthday to Lake.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Emmy goes inside and slams the door. And now she has, like, mascara coming down her cheeks, Erica Jane style, even more aggressively. And she calls Will. And she's like, I'm here. I don't want to deal with these people. They don't care about me. They're trying to make you look bad. And I'm all alone here. He's like. He's like, oh, I'm trying to get to you, baby. I'm trying to get to you. Hold on, let me reach for my car keys. Well, you're reaching for your Doritos. I can see. Oh, yeah. I will race to get you in right away as soon as I'm done with these Doritos. Well, you're not moving.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, come get me. Everyone was in on it, and they said, you and I. They said, you said, I'm not the love of your life, and you're not happy. I mean, what the hell Will. And he's like, this is bullshit. None of that was ever said. Hold on, let me. Let me just write something down. Down. Objection. Got it. Okay. Sorry. Just working on a case, babe. Just working on a case. So then back at the table, Maddie's like, oh, you guys, I'm gonna go talk to her. Because she should be able to talk to a girl.

[Ben Mandelker]

I've been through this before. And TJ's like, this is going down like everyone thought it would. Unlike me with Michaels in the past, when anyone confronts Emmy with any sort of relationship issue, she deflects and freaks out. And then we see last season when Mia was basically like, hey, I heard this rumor. And Emmy, like, bit her head off.

[Ronnie Caram]

So, yeah, I was hoping it would be different because it's not just a rumor this time. Like, everyone confirmed it. Everyone's doing it. So, like, and Molly's saying, well, I don't know why he's talking about anyone's body. He's not sitting over there with an eight pack like, austin, Chlamydia, get over here. Austin's like, shing. So she goes, period.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Michaels is like, she needs to understand it's coming from a place of care. And Will has dragged us all into this because. Because of her. Because of her severe reaction. I know that she didn't know all that Will was saying. She's, like, doing her, like, her. Her best to, like, protect her boy. She's like, what's going on here right now? And all I do know is that, like, I was not heard in this process.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Emmy comes out, like, just covered in mascara. She's, like, covered. She's a mess. She's like Tammy Faye in it. And Will's like, I'm just so disappointed in these boys. Like, they had a five convo, a five minute conversation with me at boys Night. And they think they had a conversation with me. And she's like, you just said they had a conversation with you, by the way. And she's like, yeah, but you were.

[Ben Mandelker]

The one who kept.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm happy. And they don't make me happy. I'm happy with you. What is. No one get that?

[Ben Mandelker]

And then she's just, like, sobbing on the floor. I love Will being like, they just had, like, such a short conversation. I'm like, because they were trying to find. Get to the truth of it. And you're the one who, like, cut it off and deflected it, made it seem like it was no big deal. So Will's like, hey, hey. Jack's nearby, so I'M gonna send him to pick you up. Don't listen to their. And she's like, yeah. Like, they just only get it. Like, they don't know what it's like to date a lawyer. I've been in a bad mood. I've vented. Like, I totally forgive you. You're okay. Everything is fine.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's literally crumbled on the floor with mascara on her face. And she's like, I'm just so happy. I don't understand why. I don't care. Look at me.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Maddie comes in because I think it was just a situation where people wanted it addressed. And, like, it's not like anyone was attacking anyone and was like, no, it was a gang up. It was a gang up on Emmy. You all up. You all up. So Emmy's like. Emmy's like, Brad. Brad and DJ are supposed to be his best friends.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, well, like, no, but, like, I think, like, yeah, like, Maddie just, I think felt like. I mean, Emmy just, like, felt really alone. Okay. I think that's what's. And Amy goes, okay. Maddie gets it. Okay, Let me have my moment with Maddie. She hangs up with Bill, like, drops the crying immediately. And Maddie's like, we just want to, like, love and support you. Like, do you deserve someone that's not going to talk shit about you when you're drunk at a bar? Like, I mean, I get it. Relationships aren't perfect, you know? Like, I know the roller coaster of, like, relationships. And, like, I feel like everyone's like, are you okay? And, like, are you better in the relationship? Are you, like, better not in a relationship? I forgot.

[Ben Mandelker]

I know. I know what it's like when you love someone and they're telling you everything you want to hear. And then, of course, we have a clip of Trevor last season. So meanwhile, outside Austin's like, it's a gorgeous night. And Lake is really mad. She's like, it's so disrespectful. I invite you to my lake house for my birthday, and everyone just gets up from the table, dinner table, like, so rude. Disrespectful as such.

[Ronnie Caram]

Great manners. So then Brad and Michaels and TJ go to Emmy's room, and Emmy's like, I'm being picked up. And Brad's just saying, look, you know, we care about you. The situation just got to where it was because other people were coming to us. You know, people who don't even care about you. And TJ goes, I mean, it's not that they even don't care about you. We're not even friends with them.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but you know what, though? Will told me the next day, and, like, he took accountability, and I yelled at him, and I made him accountable. I said, you are in trouble, sir. And then I made him the most beautiful Charcuten replay. And I said, don't worry. You're gonna be a lawyer someday. It's all gonna be worth it. All gonna be worth it. And I was like, you cut me off at the knees because I am there for you. Anyway, we're fine. I'm so happy to be with him.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, that's all we want to hear from you instead of, it's always so perfect, you know? Like, I can't have you on my couch sitting there telling me that you're happy and you're not happy in a bad place. And look, what am I supposed to do with that? TJ has such a cute crying voice. Like, I mean, I'm in a horrible position. What am I supposed to do to front? I've never gotten in the middle. I don't know what to do. I was like, you're gonna fly away. Someone tie him down. Not Joe. I'm Joe.

[Ben Mandelker]

I. I am just. I'm. I'm just. I'm saying I want you guys to.

[Ronnie Caram]

Be there for me.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Michaels is like, we don't want to attack you. We just want to be here for you. And speaking of here, I feel like you're not hearing me right now, and I need you to address that. My feelings are hurt too.

[Ronnie Caram]

Why are you carrying around a karaoke microphone? Just trying to be heard. So her phone rings, and she's like, jack, are you here? I'm coming, Jack. And they're like, don't leave. She goes, I am leaving. I am, like, furious. Like, if these were my friends, they would have come to both of us, and they would have said, what's going on? We see a clip of Michaels being like, what's going on? Yeah. They would have said, like, will, I heard you say this. We see a clip of them being like, will, I heard you say this. They would have said like, emmy, are you okay? Multiple clips of people like, emmy, are you okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

And you did it.

[Ronnie Caram]

You did it.

[Ben Mandelker]

You don't do this to people you care about. You really up, Michaels. You really up. So then Jack. Will's brother Jack picks him, picks up Emmy, and then they basically leave in the middle of the night. She's like, you don't understand how much I can't breathe right now. So now it's the next day People are waking up, and Siobhan, Molly, and Lake are talking about how hungover they are and. And they're talking about how, like, Emmy left without Blake, is upset because Emmy left without even saying goodbye, but didn't. It's okay because Lake still was able to have fun without Emmy.

[Ronnie Caram]

So we see clips of her, like, having cake and jumping in the pool and putting shots down through us. And Molly's like, I thought you and Brad were going to make out. No visitors in your bed. She's like, no, I'm not chasing after anybody. You come chase me. And then it cuts to him going, if you want it, come and get it.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Lake is like, I'm not going to be thirsty and drink from some drip drop water her. And she says, there's something beautiful about a slow burn. Let it marinate. Somali's like, yeah, I think I moved too fast. Siobhan's like, yeah, don't marinate. So they're laughing, and now they're like.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'll let her lie. And she goes, I don't marinate. I just throw them out on the grill.

[Ben Mandelker]

That. That didn't really work out earlier this episode for you guys. So Molly is like, by the way, Brad's cooking shirtless in the kitchen. Should we just go watch? And so, like, yeah, go into the kitchen.

[Ronnie Caram]

You're making eggs. Share it later. So then Michaels is trying to text Emmy, but she's not responding. And now Austin comes into the kitchen shirtless and upstages literally everybody else who's ever been shirtless. I mean, good God, man.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Although that back tattoo, maybe not. It's like a giant compass on his back.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, give me some direction.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, okay. So then he slept outside.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm going north.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they're like, you slept outside? But what about, like, the, like, the bugs didn't get you? And he goes, I'm one with the bugs. Which is sort of like. That really has so many different meanings on these kind of shows, being one with the bugs.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, he's like the dirty forest one. So he kind of is like the one with the. But he's probably got them all over him, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So like just goes, you're so interesting. I love it.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, huh, huh. It does nothing. So Michaels comes in. He's like, hi, everyone. How did you sleep? Did you hear me snoring? God, of course you didn't. No one can hear me. Then Brad is like, oh, did you touch TJ And M's like, no. A, you want to join Though they're just like making, like, making jokes.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's like, no, but I'd watch. They're like, oh, okay. So then Madison comes in and she's like, you guys, Joe is in pain because like last night we were racing in the pool and he like, hit his head.

[Ben Mandelker]

And we see footage of Joe swimming underwater and just crashing right into the wall. So to me, this is a sign. I've told the story before, how we went to Katie Kazarla's wedding and this was when Tom and Ariana were still together. And Tom was like, dude, I bet I could like swim to that side of the pool and back all in one breath. And he did it. And when he came back, he crashed into the wall like Joe Bradley does. And yeah, we had that.

[Ronnie Caram]

Turned out. And he's like, yeah, dude, that wall is so rough. Like, am I bl. I was like, it wasn't. I didn't. I. I'm not bleeding. I didn't hit my head. He's like, I did. I almost died, bro.

[Ben Mandelker]

Dude. And he was literally bleeding from his head from crashing into the wall. So I'm like. And now Joe Bradley's done it. Let's see. I don't know. Just remember this moment, everyone. Cuz if it shakes out in the same way, going to say that swimming, it's an omen. The swimming pool.

[Ronnie Caram]

But they're cheaters or what?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Or maybe when that happens, it, like, it shakes something loose in their head where they become awful.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's like a pool lobotomy just bangs.

[Ben Mandelker]

Them right in the right spot of me.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Joe's like, my brain is probably bush, but I'm more worried about my face because this is my body Baker.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so yeah, he's like, so now. So he comes, he's. He has a big bandage on his forehead and everything. And then they eat breakfast. And TJ's like, so do you guys think we'll hear from Emmy or Will? And it's like, well, I know one person. You're not going to hear from me. Because I'm like, not being heard right now. This breakfast, it's really upsetting.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Brad rightly is like, he's got to blame someone. It's going to be me and TJ because we're his friends. And he's like, but I'm also friends with Emmy, so what are you gonna do? And TJ's like, he might never talk to us again. That would be terrible. Terrible. I'm sure he thinks we betrayed him. But you know, like, it Just sucks to be in the middle.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's like, yeah, she needed to know what. What. What he said. And that's like, we all support Emmy, but we were all uncomfortable with that. And Michaels is like, yeah, she was alone and wanted to leave. And we have to respect that. Guys, did anyone just hear what I just said? Anyone? No.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So trip's over. So now we go back to. And Joe wakes up with Maddie's like, could I use the toothpaste? She's like, you have your own. It' and no, your toothbrush. And she's like, but it's your house. You have your own. And he's like, but I like using your toothbrush.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's so disgusting. So I've never heard of that ever.

[Ronnie Caram]

Plaque. So then we see Molly working at her wedding place and Brad driving around trying to call Emmy but getting voicemail. And then we go to Emmy's and Will's like, have you seen my pink tie? Because, like, I'm trying to organize them. Oh, my God. God, it looks so good. That is like the best organization I've ever seen. Well, you are so good at that. Oh, my God. Everybody's texting me Michaels. Well, like, literally stop.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And like, by the way, like, what did they know about being in a three year relationship, especially with a future lawyer? And was like, nothing. Yeah, like, TJ is like 33 and alone.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was like, damn.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know. I feel like you're. You're in a relationship and alone, which is better.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, exactly. And also, TJ has way fewer options than you. You know, you actually have more.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Emy's like, well, I haven't talked to anyone, cuz, like, I just don't trust anyone and I don't believe anyone. My reality has been crushing down around my head.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, well, it's like, well, if anyone has questions about our relationship, they should come talk to me. They'd rather bully you about it.

[Ronnie Caram]

And yeah, and it's disgusting. Is evil.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Will's like, I was curious why TJ and Brad brought this up at dinner the other night. And like, I may be a lot of things, but I'm certainly not stupid. Obviously this was something they were about to make a big deal of. And it's like, infuriating that two people we love failed to protect us from the harm I'm seeing Emmy go through right now. And that is certainly some of the worst betrayal you could have for a friend. How about the betrayal you have for your own girlfriend by talking about her at a bar in front of people you don't know very well or really in front of anyone at all. And you can't blame this on Brad and tj if, if the. The best way for them to protect you and Emmy is for you not to say this in the first place.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. They are kind of bad friends, though. Would you be pissed if your friends went to your boyfriend and were like, oh, my God, a Ben talks about you? I'd be pissed. I would be pissed about it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I mean, I'd be pissed, but like, also it's like, I'd be pissed mainly cuz it's my own fault. That's probably what. Why be. Be pissed? And you know, the truth is they. They spoke to Will because they were trying. Like, if Will gave them something to work with. Like, I. He did say. I did say it, but like, he. He didn't seem very contrite about it and he gave excuses and it's kind of like, oh, this is like up. And like, they have to deal with it and Will's not helping them out. Like, he doesn't. Will doesn't even give him a story that they can be. They could, they could defend him with.

[Ronnie Caram]

So didn't he basically admit to doing it and say he'll talk to her and then he went and talked to her. So, I mean, I don't know.

[Ben Mandelker]

He went home and didn't say anything. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Emmy's like, well, he has a highlighter behind his ear because he's very smart guys. And he's like, Emmy, you have a dot on your chin. That is hilarious. Like, whatever you're doing with your makeup, those first strokes were going. And is like the first strokes weren't going. That is so sexy. Well, it's like, get your head out of the gutter, girl. So now we go.

[Ben Mandelker]

Relationship is so stable. Yeah. So Joe, turns out he. He actually got a concussion from his pool accident. He's like, yeah. After like the second, like, vomit of the day, I realized maybe it's like not a hangover. So then we see clips of that. And then Maddie took him to the hospital and then she's like crying. She's like, oh, my God, if anything were happening, Joe.

[Ronnie Caram]

So he's like, yeah, I think me and TJ should talk because, like, we talked a little bit. But like, he's my best friend, you know, but he's so hostile. So maybe you can text him for me. Just be like, hey, Joe's concussed. He's vulnerable. And then say, hey, tj, I'M with Joe and he'd like to meet up with you. You know, look, because he blocked me, so I can't do it. Like, okay, tj, it's me, Joe. Do it with, like, a softer voice. He can't hear me, Joe. He can. He can feel it. Trust me. So she texts TJ for him, and TJ is like, okay, we should totally get together.

[Ben Mandelker]

So now they go to a bar. Well, Republic. I'm like, some bar. And TJ is like. He orders Joe a kettle martini with blue cheese olives. Like, that's TJ's love language. Is that. That, like, he can't articulate how he feels, so he just expresses through getting drinks for people?

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, beverages are his love language.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Matt's like, go, Joe. You're gonna crush it. You'll have. You'll do great, Joe. Go ahead, Joe.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Joe comes in and he's like, I got you a kettle. A dirty kettle. One martini with blue cheese olives. He's like, whoa, God, I could stick my dick in you right now. Sorry, that too forward. Why. Why are you crying? I'm hoping. I'm hoping for a real deep conversation and not just surface level because, like, we have serious issues. So Joe says, okay, well, like, I don't even know, like, where we. Where we begun. Cuz, like, you were like, my first best friend in Charleston. Like, it was like, you're like, my best of bestest friends. Like, because you're the first. You know what I mean? Like, our families got. Got along, like, you know, like. And TJ's like, yeah, because our family set it off, and we were new to the city, so that was pretty much it. Still probably don't have my Starbucks order, but whatever. I'll just suffer in silence over here.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, you were, like, the first best friend I ever had. And I feel like when I woke up in, like, Luann's apartment, you were thinking of me. You were wishing it was me, not Luann, next to you. Yeah. Yes and no. Maybe. No. Maybe yes. Joe, you're sending me so many mixed signals right now. I can't help it. Okay, well, what I was gonna say is. I slept with Luann. Yes. Okay, you know what? You're jumping ahead too far. He's like, yeah, I know. I'm just, like, not really good at storytelling, but when I woke up, you're the f. You're the only person I told. And I just feel like the first person you tell something like that should be the last person to betray you.

[Ronnie Caram]

And he's like, well, in a weak moment, I was going to give you the opportunity to talk about it, but I was like, oh, this is terrible. This a terrible, terrible apology. But then he's like, I do take full accountability. You told me something in confidence and I should never have repeated that. Skinny Matcha Iced what? That's my dream quarter.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, but you know what, though? Like, even though I had given you a moment to talk about this, an opportunity to talk about it, even though I invited you to share your truth with America, you know, for you, for me waking up to, like, the nasty messages from you, it was just. It was so. It was so upsetting. And we see, like, rat dead to me and my family. It's disgusting thing. He's like, yeah, well, I'm sorry I said the worst thing you can say to someone. But to be fair, that was Luann typing for me. She's really good at doing these text messages.

[Ronnie Caram]

But you know what? Like, before I could even apologize, like, and sober up, like, you'd blocked me. So, like, in a way, you, like, did the same thing. Cuz you said, I'm dead to you too. And so I think, well, I wanted you to feel like you lost me. I wanted you to feel something. He's like, I did that because you're, like, everything to me. So, like, whatever you were doing totally worked. Like, we could have talked sooner. It's like, well, but, you know, like, the past chatter has hurt our relationship too. You know, the chattering that I did to everybody else about us possibly boning in my bed that time. And so he's like, well, like, look, I mean, look, we don't have to talk about it. It's like a complex relationship. Like, I've told you a million times. Like, great, great, let's hug. Let's hug. Okay, it's over. He's like, no, it's not. We're gonna have a gay scene. He's like, God damn. Damn it. I brought you a blow dryer. All right, I'll do the gay scene. Just go ahead, you start.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, well, I think the downfall started, like, that night, like, three years ago, you know? He's like, oh, yeah, okay, I remember I slept in your bed. And, like, you're my best friend and I was drunk and I touched you.

[Ronnie Caram]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop the car. Stop the car. What does that mean? I touched you. What does that mean? Why aren't they telling us what they did? Did he give him a handy? Did they make out? Did they all.

[Ben Mandelker]

I did. No. I love to cuddle I'm a cuddler. So I just like made him little spoon and I was big spoon. And then I wrapped my hand, I cuddled my hand on his penis. And like that was it, you know, it was just some contact and you know, like you told a bunch of people about that and there's like, now there's like rumors going around.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but how am I not allowed to talk about something that I went through? Well, because that's your best friend and you're kind of outing him if he's not out. I mean, I do get what he's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Saying, but yeah, I mean, cuz it's like, why should he be forced to cover for someone else? But it is outing someone. If that was something. But also then like if it is as benign as it is, why would Joe be ashamed of it? And it's actually a pretty complicated situation. The point is they should have had a conversation about it.

[Ronnie Caram]

I can't figure it out cuz I can't tell if they're saying they cuddled. But if you cuddled with somebody, you don't say a like was in your bed and then I talked touched you. Because no one says that. They say we cuddled. Like what's the big deal? So I'm just confused also, you know, curious. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So should we do a reenactment? I think they should do a reenactment. So Joe is like. He's like, oh, it was just like nothing. And it's like. He's just like. It's like. And she did just. TJ says but wasn't nothing to me. And he looks really sad. And Joe's like.

[Ronnie Caram]

Joe does this thing when he's nervous where he wipes his mouth like this. Like he takes his whole hand down and over his mouth. He's nervous. So let's see. So do you think we will see? I slept with the. When any guy would sleep with the gay icon, it's like in the rule book. So doesn't count.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, leave it to Countess Luan de Lesseps to surface some gay issues. Nothing brings the gay out of anyone like Countess Luann De Lesseps.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. All right, everybody, thanks so much for being with us. We will see you later this week in New York City for the Golden Crappies on Saturday night. And following that will be in Salt Lake City and Denver. So grab your tickets over at Watch what Crappens and we'll talk to you later. Bye Bye.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

She ain't no shrinking violet. Coutar we love you guys. If you like, watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] com survey.