#2720 RHONY S15E017 Part Two: It Ain’t Ovah Til It’s Pavlova

Summary

Watch What Crappens: Episode #2720 – RHONY S15E017 Part Two: It Ain’t Ovah Til It’s Pavlova

Release Date: February 6, 2025

In Episode #2720 of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve into the tumultuous finale of The Real Housewives of New York (RHONY) Season 15, Episode 17, titled "It Ain’t Ovah Til It’s Pavlova." This detailed recap captures all the key moments, heated discussions, and the ultimate conclusion that left fans both satisfied and frustrated.

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1. Opening Remarks and Episode Context

The episode kicks off with Ronnie Karam welcoming listeners back, referencing the preceding Part One of the recap and encouraging subscriptions for continuous updates.

Ronnie Karam [00:35]:
"Welcome back. This is part two of a two-part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe."

---

2. Room Assignment Drama

One of the central conflicts revolves around the contentious room assignments during the trip. Raquel expresses frustration over not being offered a suitable accommodation.

Ben Mandelker [01:30]:
"Raquel, you seem frustrated at the start. What was that? She's like, well, watching it over now, I know the room was not, you know, you never would have fit..."

Raquel criticizes the lack of effort to secure a better room, emphasizing that being on the show doesn't grant preferential treatment.

Raquel [02:17]:
"But I get everything because I'm hot. Of course, that's how I do."

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3. UBA’s Controversial Comments on the Ocean

UBA ignites controversy with her remarks about the ocean being sewage, leading to misunderstandings and heated exchanges.

Ronnie Karam [02:42]:
"But you also said the water is disgusting. She goes, no, no. That's the thing."

UBA clarifies that her comment was directed towards individuals considered "hot," insinuating that they shouldn't swim due to the sewage issue.

UBA [03:01]:
"If you are a hot person, don't go swimming. If you're not hot, go swimming."

---

4. Jenna’s Hair and Conflict Handling

The hosts address Jenna’s controversial comment about her "vagina hair," mocking the trivialization of personal issues within the group dynamics.

Ronnie Karam [05:50]:
"We're just talking about Jenna's hair."

Ben criticizes UBA for her dismissive attitude towards Jenna's concerns.

Ben Mandelker [05:56]:
"See, this is why UBA can continue on. Because answers like that are hilarious to me."

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5. Brynn’s Accusations and Defense

Bryn confronts UBA with serious allegations, accusing her of making baseless claims about her personal life. This segment is laden with emotional tension and conflicting narratives.

Ben Mandelker [06:56]:
"Didn't she know about my experiences? You went there with it and then it turns out that actually she didn't know that."

Bryn attempts to defend her actions, suggesting that her emotional state led to misunderstandings.

Bryn [07:34]:
"Maybe I wasn't angry. I was hurt. I didn't understand why..."

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6. Host Reactions and Frustrations

Throughout the episode, Ben and Ronnie express their exasperation with the unresolved tensions and repetitive conflicts, highlighting the difficulty in maintaining humor amidst the chaos.

Ronnie Karam [34:53]:
"This show broke. This episode broke me."

Ben echoes the sentiment, emphasizing his disdain for Brynn’s manipulative behavior.

Ben Mandelker [37:21]:
"I see her as a compulsive, lying, evil person. So I think that's being broken."

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7. The Pavlova Finale and Reconciliation Attempts

The episode culminates with the traditional Pavlova dinner, symbolizing an attempt at reconciliation. However, Ben and Ronnie remain skeptical about the sincerity of the apologies and the overall resolution.

Ben Mandelker [32:18]:
"I would have preferred them to just be like they were before, when they were very firm but still kind with Bryn."

Raquel offers a moment of tenderness, attempting to mend fences with Brynn, but Ben remains unconvinced.

Ben Mandelker [34:32]:
"I think that was a moment of Raquel following the leader as she's done this whole time."

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8. Hosts’ Final Thoughts and Season Reflection

As the recapitulation concludes, Ben and Ronnie reflect on the season's overall shortcomings, expressing a mix of relief and disappointment.

Ronnie Karam [41:13]:
"This episode was very hard to do because it kept going on and on."

Ben Mandelker [35:49]:
"No, this show sucked. And I'm really glad it's ending and over, because it is definitely time."

Despite acknowledging some entertaining moments, both hosts agree that the season was marred by excessive drama and lack of genuine resolution.

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9. Closing Remarks and Look Ahead

The hosts wrap up the episode by teasing future content and maintaining their signature humor, despite the exhausting recap.

Ben Mandelker [43:15]:
"We'll talk to you next next time."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ronnie Karam [02:17]:
  "But I get everything because I'm hot. Of course, that's how I do."

• UBA [03:01]:
  "If you are a hot person, don't go swimming. If you're not hot, go swimming."

• Ronnie Karam [05:50]:
  "We're just talking about Jenna's hair."

• Ben Mandelker [06:56]:
  "Didn't she know about my experiences? You went there with it and then it turns out that actually she didn't know that."

• Ronnie Karam [34:53]:
  "This show broke. This episode broke me."

• Ben Mandelker [37:21]:
  "I see her as a compulsive, lying, evil person. So I think that's being broken."

---

Conclusion

Watch What Crappens delivers a thorough and candid recap of a highly charged RHONY episode, capturing the intricate web of conflicts and attempts at reconciliation. Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam's insightful commentary provides listeners with a clear understanding of the episode's dynamics, highlighting both the entertaining and frustrating aspects of reality TV drama.

For those who missed the episode or seek a comprehensive analysis, this recap serves as an engaging and detailed overview, complete with memorable quotes and critical observations.

Transcript

[Ronnie Karam]

Wondry subscribers can listen to Watch what Crappens ad free right now. Join Wondri in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Keke Palmer]

Hey, y'all, it's your girl, Keke Palmer. And let me tell you, we're kicking off this new year with a whole new mindset. If you're ready for that new year new mindset energy, you've gotta tune in to, baby. This is Keke Palmer. If you're looking for more podcasts to help you tend to your well being, check out New Year New Mindset on the Wondery app.

[Ronnie Karam]

Guess what happens when there's so much that happens. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of a two part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. So that way you always get your episodes. But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode. So now we continue on.

[Ben Mandelker]

I like that you take a breath. You're like, oh, God.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, because I see what's happening next pages. I am like, honestly, I'm not gonna lie to the people here. This is torture for me. Well, I think this is torture.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, let's, let's skip this pussy thing. I just don't care about Jenna's vagina hair, okay? I just do not.

[Ronnie Karam]

Jenna's vaja on hair. We will skip that.

[Ben Mandelker]

So we see some clips, we see some fights between UBA and Brynn. The whole, did you say she sucked dick or that she slept with someone for this job? Blah, blah, blah. So we come back and Andy's like, well, I want to start at the beginning of the trip. Raquel, you seem frustrated at the start. What was that? And she's like, well, watching it over now, I know the room was not, you know, you never would have fit, but you didn't even attempt to find a room. And it was like, oh, as a host, you should not take the master bedroom for yourself. Yes, you should. They all fucking do. And when you get to a vacation, you need to make an effort to get your own room. People aren't going to just be like, oh, give UBA the hot the best room because she's hot. Sorry. I'm sorry if your regular life works like that, but that is not how Housewives works. Ma'am. If you're going to be on this show, you need to learn how to do it.

[Ronnie Karam]

But I get everything because I'm hot. Of course that's how I do. So, yeah, we talk about the room stuff here and assigning the rooms and all that fun stuff. And Andy's like, uba, you had a lot to say about on the beach. Raquel took you to a visit. She's like, yes. I want to clarify things. I wasn't talking about the ocean. I was talking about the sewage that goes into the ocean that is also in the ocean. And the fact that the ocean is sewage.

[Ben Mandelker]

But you also said the water is disgusting. She goes, no, no. That's the thing. No, no, no. And he's like, but you said, don't go swimming. The water is disgusting. And she's like, no, this one. This one. I was talking about your cat. What?

[Ronnie Karam]

All I'm saying is, if you are a hot person, don't go swimming. If you're not hot, go swimming. But hot people don't touch the sewage.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Sai tries to stick up for her, and she's like, well, she saw a dead bird and there was a little inlay, and she said, don't go. Put your feet in there. And Raquel's like, but everybody walks through that one inch of water, including Sai. And you decided to jump. I don't know why you couldn't just walk through the water. She's like, well, actually, I thought I was long enough, but I wasn't. And she's like, okay, but then you told people not to go swimming in the ocean. She goes, no. Yeah, but no, not people. I was talking about. She. You told Bryn. She goes, did I tell you not to go swim? Did I tell you I love Uber? Just flying off the handle over nothing. And Bryn's like, I don't remember. I'm in enough trouble. I'm not going to get in trouble for this, too.

[Ronnie Karam]

You're on. She's like, I'm not going to get dragged into Puerto Rico. Into Puerto Rico drama. I'm not. I'm not going to get an island mad at me.

[Ben Mandelker]

UVA's just inability to take any responsibility or just fucking apologize. It's. It's like. It's both frustrating, but it's also hilarious because she's getting herself so worked up. And she's like, you tell him, Braden. She's like, no. And she goes, did I tell you to not swim? No. Production. It's not true. It's not true. Production. Production. Tell them it's not true. And then production rolls a clip of her literally going, don't swim. The water is disgusting. Can I tell you, please?

[Ronnie Karam]

She was trying. She was saying that to lay an egg on you. She was saying that to the egg on you and bring goes, I wasn't trying to egg you on. I said I was gonna. And she goes, I'm gonna go die in the Hudson River. Like I care. I'm only apologize for ruining your childhood memory about the beach. Everyone thought it, but they were not going to tell you.

[Ben Mandelker]

And so I was like, well, okay, look, here's the thing. Puerto Rico's been through a lot, and we don't want to people to see, like, Puerto Rico in a bad light. She goes, I didn't think of that. I love Puerto Rico. I go there all the time. So it's like, yeah, it's a Puerto Rican. That's what we thought about. Like, I don't want to discourage people from going there just because they think we have dirty beaches and things. And she's like, oh, well, they're going to miss out if they don't go to Puerto Rico. I had the best time there. The best time.

[Ronnie Karam]

But don't go into the ocean. Do not go into the ocean. Also had the worst time. So Andy is like, all right, okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Jenna, the shock on everybody because they're just shell shocked, you know, because UBA is just a whirlwind. And so they're like, okay, she's just submit.

[Ronnie Karam]

Jenna, let's talk about your vagina hair. Vagina hair. We're just gonna scroll through all the commentary. The hair is straight and long and it's going through it. And situation. When did you realize your hair was. It looks like only, like, Jessel's hair. All right, well, Uber. The women on the trip in their interviews express worry and anxiety about Jenna's hair. Just kidding. We're talking about Jenna's hair. Still no. They don't like the way you handle conflict. How does it feel knowing your friends avoid bringing certain topics up around you because they're worried about your reaction?

[Ben Mandelker]

I apologize if my authenticity makes you so uncomfortable.

[Ronnie Karam]

See, this is why uba, okay, this is why I say UBA can continue on. Because, like, answers like that are hilarious to me. Me again, UBA and just at the very least, UBA and Jessel, if you don't want to take Sai, fine. But UBA and Jessel, they can go forward in my book.

[Ben Mandelker]

So he's like, but your reaction to the room, for example, the room situation. She goes, you know what? Continue being afraid of uba.

[Ronnie Karam]

Great.

[Ben Mandelker]

They're afraid of me. Good for me.

[Ronnie Karam]

Naomi wish. Giselle wish. I'm not afraid, but sometimes I don't want to deal with it.

[Ben Mandelker]

And it's long winded it's really just long. Just, you know, just be angry in the shortest. In the shortest span of time.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, they say it take. It takes a long time to have an argument with uba, you know, she's like, oh, well. And Aaron goes, and this is my issue that I have. Oh, well, you have an issue with everybody except for Naomi and Giselle. And Aaron's like, do you even know what I'm going to say? She goes, the issue did you have with everybody? She goes, well, because those are relationships. That's not nice to say.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, no, I don't like your tone. Is it her tone, Aaron, that you have a problem with me? Go ahead, tell the truth. We don't have an issue. And she's like, well, it wouldn't be, like, negative if you just listen. I was just gonna say, like, you assume things and then you get triggered, you know? But, like, you don't give me the benefit of the doubt, and that frustrates me because you're a liar. How many times does she have to tell you right to your face you're a liar and a shit starter, Aaron. That's why she doesn't trust you. She'd be a fucking moron to trust you. You do nothing but lie and try to stir and twist everything for no good reason. Brin number two. Brin number two.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, Raquel, what is your reaction to being. Being new to the group about people feeling like they don't want to make UBA upset because they're worried about her reaction?

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, well, I get it. I mean, when I went to speak with you about the beach, and she was, oh, I'm so happy. Everybody's afraid of me. Go ahead. Go ahead, scaredy. And she's like, well, I mean, we came in to calm things down, and then you say, are the two Puerto Rican girls coming here to attack me? And she's like, well, I spen. I felt that way. I spoke. I felt. I told you. When they come to play, you will see there was a dead pigeon. The end. Dead pigeon.

[Ronnie Karam]

And then Andy's like, well, that's not the point. We're talking about your friends censoring themselves because they are worried about your reaction.

[Ben Mandelker]

They should.

[Ronnie Karam]

They should. But that's not a healthy relationship. That's not a true friendship.

[Ben Mandelker]

But that's not true, though. And he's like, but they've all expressed it. And she's like, okay, fine, I don't believe it, but go ahead. And just was like, well, I think it's how we Communicate with Uber. You know, if we have an issue, I don't deal with it in a group setting. I call Uber and we talk it out. And Raquel's like, but I mean, if something happens in the moment, you have to have the conversation, right? And she goes, you know what, Raquel? I wish I tell you I care. I don't care. I really don't.

[Ronnie Karam]

All right, I want to go back to the conversation by the pool. Aaron, you told Jessel you're not part of the shit talking. Now that you've seen it, do you want to talk back that lie? And she's like, I mean, yeah, I was sitting there. I mean, I wasn't saying much. I was chiming in, but I wasn't.

[Ben Mandelker]

Offering information like percent talking that lady behind her back. And you've been mean to her all season, so cut the crap.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, really?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, it looked like you were a member of the conversation. And she's like, well, I was a member of the conversation, I guess so I'm sorry. I mean, I felt like it was getting too much, so I said so? And so I was like, yeah, she did say, you know, come on, guys, I feel bad. Yeah, that's what she says after she shit talks somebody for an entire season. That she just did it with Bryn. Oh, my God, you guys. Like, no one is even talking to Brent. I feel bad.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And it was like, well, you don't get a sticker for that. And Aaron's like, ubo, you won't give me a sticker for anything. She literally won't give me a sticker. So UBA's like, and you know what? Even make me more mad while I was watching, you actually switched the entire conversation by saying her husband called you. And she goes, did you see it? She's oh, I thought I saw it. Aaron's like, but do you have a problem? Because I have a lot of things that I'm not saying. Oh, God, that whole thing again. Oh my goodness.

[Ben Mandelker]

Scared. So Uber's like, oh, she was, yeah, well, it's really fucking rude. Oh, there's that tone again. Don't like it. So Aaron's like, yeah, so you want to assume and you want to find the worst of me and I don't understand. I've been nothing but a good friend to you. You goodbye. God, you serve up the worst. You're like, you're like a tray being past of the worst. And she's like, well, I've been a good friend to you. And she goes, nah, because like, you know, if. Whatever. I'm not even gonna go. So Andy's like, uma, you left the dinner on night two, and you said, I don't know if Bryn slept with someone to get this job. So I guess the question is, why go there? She's like, because I was mad. He's like, but why go there? Knowing about the comment that was made on Jeff Lewis's show? She's like, well, I wasn't thinking of Jeff Lewis. I was mad. And it's stupid thing to say, you know? Remember last time, last year, I said, maybe you don't know how to be love or stand up for yourself. It was like that. She's just bringing up the worst evidence against herself from years past.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. All right, well, you said there was a big difference between saying you sucked a dick for a job and saying someone slept with someone for a job. What's the difference? And she's like, oh, well, you know. Well, they're both really mad, like. But to me, like, you know, you suck a dick to get the job. Like, maybe I have a dick and maybe you have a dick, and maybe we have a dick, and like, you know, you suck dick to get job. Know? Dick, dick, dick, dick, dick. You know, nothing like that. I mean, I'm hot. I'm hot. Can I just say, and in conclusion, I'm hot. And he's like one of those. Look, she.

[Ben Mandelker]

You can look at me. You don't have to look confused. Look at me. And I can tell you. I was like, oh, damn.

[Ronnie Karam]

And he does the thing where he. His head, he goes. He like, swivels his head to the side really aggressively. And she goes, okay, don't look confused. Okay. I'm a hot person talking to you.

[Ben Mandelker]

So she's like, was it the right thing to say? No. Do. Do I regret it?

[Ronnie Karam]

Sure.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, I'm sorry here. Forever after life, I'm very sorry. And never tell me who this person is, because I might go to jail. And he goes, so do you accept her apology? And Bryn says, yeah. So he's like, okay, now again, now, about this accusation against Uber. Okay, now, Bryn, before we get into this, we all believe your assault, so let's talk about this other lie. And she's like, well, I did tell her, and it was the week before. Bravo. She's still sticking to this. That she told her. Now, the problem I have with this is we see a flashback to where Bryn is crying to the other ladies, and she's saying. And the thing is, UBA saying this stuff to me when she knows that this is something I'm dealing with. She knows that I've been raped and she knows that I'm going to group. She said something like, I'm going to group meetings and I'm doing all of this stuff trying to deal with it. But that's not what you said. You said that you mentioned it very quickly in a sobbing fit on the phone and that maybe she missed it when what you really said to the girls was knows that I'm going to therapy. She knows that I'm going to these group things. She knows. So you're still fucking lying. You're coming on here and you're just lying again and now you're sobbing and now you're doing. You're telling the same story you've been telling and you're giving the woe is me thing for the whole thing. You lied. You allied to a point where you could have ruined someone's life and you're just going to sit there and continue to lie and cry and make yourself the victim. That's why I cannot with this woman. I can't here.

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, here's the thing with Bryn is that like whether she told UBA or not is almost immaterial because she, she believes she did. And I don't even know if I question if she believes. Like I, I. Like this whole story could, could actually be true. It was like a word vomit. It went by quickly UBA like it just uber. Somehow UBA missed it. Like that could be true. I think where the issue is, and this is what Jenna says, is that is that Bryn hinges an entire thing. Like she makes it. The crux of her argument, like, why is it UBA said in the car was above and beyond bad is because she knew this about me and she's using it against me. Like she pretty much outright says that. And it's such a horrifying thing that like UBA would use it against her. That like everyone is massively upset and where Bryn is. It's like whether Bryn is lying about whether she told her is almost doesn't matter. Because all we do know what does come out is that Bryn isn't totally sure that, that UBA knows. And therefore it's really shitty that Bryn would say it with authority on camera for America to see, but then off camera be like, well, actually maybe she didn't know that. So that's what's. So that's what's so terrible about it.

[Ben Mandelker]

And still unable to take any fucking responsibility. So she's Going on and on and crying her tears and this and that. And she's like, but maybe she didn't hear me because I was rambling like a lunatic, you know, But I know I said it and I literally said like after that I was like, in her defense, you guys, because despite what you think I am, I'm always defending you, uba, you just tried to ruin her on tv. And Aaron goes, you didn't say that. And she goes, yeah, I said in her defense, maybe she didn't hear that cuz I was incoherent. And Aaron goes, no, I was there and you didn't say that. And Psych goes, I was there. You didn't say it. She goes, you guys, don't. I like, don't you know what we're talking about right now? Be careful. Be careful. You be careful, you compulsive liar.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, like everyone there is like, we all heard, like you never said that. Like, and I don't think anyone here is motivated to lie right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

And.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Bryn is just keeps on digging in. And she's like, actually I was saying like in her defense, in her defense, you know, whatever. And I was rambling and da, da, da, da, da, da. And they're like, and then she said that, like she says that everyone in the group was asking questions like, how rich was he? Who is this guy? And they're like, we never asked any of those questions. We never asked that.

[Ben Mandelker]

You're making the same thing to them that she was doing to UBA where she's making it. Like, yeah, I just told these women I was assaulted and all they care about is how much money this guy had and, and what he. Was he hot? Well, I mean, the fuck is your problem, man? And they're like, no, none of that happened. And she goes, nobody came and hugged me. Because, Rin, you just did what you did on national tv. And then of course you waited for the cameras not to be there when you corrected the record and said maybe she didn't hear it. Of course. So they're like, no, none of this happened. So Jenna's like, I mean, you told us that might not have clocked it. And that felt careless. Cuz we had just realized at that moment she goes, yeah, she starts fake crying, she goes, what state I was in. Because I don't fall on the ground and scream or run to bathrooms and throw up and cause a scene and say, you bitches, just because I keep my together. How are you keeping your together? You weren't keeping your shit together. She's like, oh, my God, you're all holding me to this little accountable for every. You're holding me accountable for every single word. Because they're destructive words.

[Ronnie Karam]

You should be. You should. Well. Well, especially because on this reunion, when you have Aaron saying, like, oh, really, now we're going to talk about tone, implying that we should be talking about, like, words instead of tone or actions. And now it's like, wait, you're gonna, like, talk? You're gonna break down every single word. But, yeah, these are, like you said, these are dangerous words and everything. And Bryn's like, maybe I wasn't angry. I was hurt. I didn't understand why. Why I went. You know, she had. When she had clocked. When she had, like, made the cancer thing, she was saying, like, you know, she didn't realize. You know, when she said the thing about the cancer, you know, moms die of cancer, she didn't, like, realize Aaron was right there. So maybe she was doing the same thing with me. She didn't put two and two together. That's why I went and told you guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

This is also extremely unfair because when UBA said, you guys, you do. You can't choose when you're. You don't. You don't get to choose if your mom gets cancer and dies. And Aaron made it about her because her mom is going through that. And I can see how she would be sensitive, but Uba's mom died from cancer. UBA was talking about herself and the fact that Bryn knows that now and she's still coming onto the reunion being like, remember when UBA was so fucking insensitive and said, mom with cancer, she had it going on in her own life. She's completely within her rights to say that, and you know that. So you're still coming on the camera and trying to make it sound like she was being a complete asshole. Mm.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Raquel's like, we were so angry at uba and it was the three of us in room. Because, Bryn, you said, I can't believe she's saying these things to me. She knows I was raped. I'll totally her. I was raped. And Jess was like, yeah, the con. The context of the conversation was, I cannot believe this. And so Andy is like, saying, yes, the context is hinging on the fact that she knew that and that, like, then they were very upset with her on your behalf because she knew that information and she was being reckless with it. And so that's why they're mad at you, because now they find out that she might not have known that information.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's so crazy how they have to explain to Bryn exactly what happened because she's completely deluded herself and is telling herself some different story and keeps trying to lie and they have to explain to her like a baby what she did, what she said, why it was hurtful, and she still just sits there crying like it's everyone's being mean to her. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Annie Yagar]

Welcome to the offensive line. You guys. On this podcast, we're gonna make some picks, talk some sh T and hopefully make you some money in the process. On your husband, host Annie Yagar. So here's how this show's gonna work.

[Unknown]

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[Keke Palmer]

Hey, y'all, it's your girl, Keke Palmer. And let me tell you, we're kicking off this new year with a whole new mindset. You know how everyone's all about new Year, new me. Well on, baby. This is Keke Palmer. We're taking it to a whole other level. We're talking new year, new perspectives, and, honey, it's gonna change your life. I sat down with astrology queen Chani Nicholas. Y'all, if you want to understand yourself better this year, this episode is. Is it? And then there's my chat with the incredible da Vinci where nothing was off the table. If you're looking to level up your mindset this year, his words are definitely going to hit different. If you're ready for that new year new mindset energy, you've got to tune into, baby. This is Keke Palmer. Catch it on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts and for the full experience, head to my YouTube channel. If you're looking for more podcasts to help you tend to your well being, check out New Year New Mindset on the Wondery app. Let's make this year our best one yet.

[Unknown]

Baby UFO lands in Suffolk and that's official, said the News of the World. But what really happened across two nights in December 1980 when US servicemen saw mysterious lights in the forest near RAF Woodbridge and claimed to have had a close encounter with an actual craft?

[Andy McVillan]

Encounters, a new podcast available exclusively on Wonderday, takes a deep dive into one of the most famous and still unresolved UFO UFO encounters to ever take place in the uk. Featuring shocking testimony from first hand witnesses, hosts, journalist, podcaster and UFO researcher Andy McVillan. That's me and producer L. Scott take us back to the nights in question and examine all of the evidence and conflicting theories about what was encountered in the middle of a Snowy Suffolk Forest 40 years ago.

[Unknown]

Are we alone? Encounters is a podcast which is going to find out. Listen to Encounters exclusively in ad free on Wondry plus. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or in Apple Podcasts.

Everyone out there should listen to Small Town Murder. You really should. Mainly because you never know who's next door. And that's, that's the point of this show, really. You never know who is next door. You never know what's gonna happen on Small Town Murder. That's what makes it so wonderful. The only thing you do know is that people are gonna die.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And we're probably gonna make jokes about it. That's it. That's all we can promise you. We dig into these towns, we see what makes them tick. From local legends to scandals they may have had. And of course the biggest scandals of all, horrible murders that take place there. And we put our, what I feel is completely appropriate comedic spin on the whole thing. And you know, you need a laugh right now. So get in there, listen to Small Town Murder. Follow Small Town Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then Jenna is like, oh my God, I was so devastated. Oh my God. She goes through her whole thing and how damaging this was to Uma, uba. And Brynn's like, well, I'm sorry, but if I say something to somebody, I assume that they know it.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Andy's like, let's go do your mind, uba. I'm hot. Okay, what else do you remember the phone call before Bravocon? So she remembers it very clearly. And UBA starts to cry, and she's like, she never said it. Like, that's why when she told me, that's when I ran to you. I. I asked her, I said, I'm a human being. Maybe you told me. Maybe. I don't know. I don't remember. Tell me what? When did you tell me that? Like, remind me. And you didn't. You looked at me and you didn't tell me. And that's when I realized it's not true. And you never told me. Me.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Bryn's like, when did you say remind me, though? You never said that. She goes in the corridor when I came to ask you, and she's like, uba, you chased me down the hallway and you grabbed at me. She did not chase you down the hallway. You were already in a room with the door closed, so stop this shit. Like, Uba's chasing you down. So she's like, I did not. And she goes, yes. And so I was like, it's on camera. I mean, can they bring that back? And she's like, I walked towards you and I heard what. I heard what. You text her. And then we get a commercial break. And so she. We come back and she's like, you know, you said that you're worried about uba. Do you remember when you said, uber is not okay? What did you text her? You said, I was violent. And Aaron's like, lock the door. You said, lock the door. And she was. I was fucking violent towards you. And then we see the clip of that of UBA losing her shit and coming to the door and saying, you're saying that I knew that you were raped. You fucking liar. I knew. I knew you were raped, you fucking psycho bitch. And slamming on the door. And so Bryn's like, they had to push me and put me in the room. And she's like, I was violent.

[Ronnie Karam]

And so Aaron's like, okay, sit back, sit back. And she goes, since the day you met me. You want to discredit me? You want to hurt me? Bryn's like, no, I don't. And she goes, let me tell you something. I always feel for you. Always. Like, ask everyone, how many times do I stand up for you? And then everyone's like, yeah, UBA stands up for you all the time. And Bryn's like, but that's why you were my first call. And Uba's just grateful.

[Ben Mandelker]

So she was your first call when you were going through complete trauma and you turned it around and tried to ruin her ass over literally for no reason. Reason.

[Ronnie Karam]

Sai is pretty direct here. She's like, bryn, you weaponized your experience for the downfall of a friend. It is awful. You know, watch your language.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch your language. Shut up. Just shut up.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's like, do you not see the implications of these allegations? And Bryn's like, it would be an allegation if I'm still sitting here. Like, well, she knew and she did this on purpose. But then like three minutes later, after saying it, I was like, in her defense, maybe she didn't clock it, but not all. Like, you could. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, it's.

[Ben Mandelker]

You did the damage and then you tried to fix it off camera when it didn't count. So doesn't count.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, and, and, and there, you know, Jessel's like, some, you know, something is not. Like you're, you're making this sound so trivial. And Brin's like, you don't have to tell me about this situation. Is it trivial? And Jessel's like, no, but you're making it seem like that. And then Bryn's like, guys, it's gonna be too much. So then they're all like, okay, all right, Bryn, all right.

[Ben Mandelker]

So UBA does this thing where she's like, listen, it was very wrong what you did, but the good thing is I forgive you. I'm not mad at you because I'm hot. But we will never go back to what we were. I want to go back to a time when I didn't fucking know who you were. Like, she rips into her in this moment and it's just so clean and so perfect and I loved it. And she goes, we're not going back. So then Andy's like, okay, well what did you say to the other women? Bryn, you and uba, I feel like, are not going to get anywhere. And she's like, well, after all of it, no one called me. Like, literally no one come comforted. Did you listen to what everybody just said? Even if you had to have. You had to have it explained to you like a two year old and you still don't get it.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Aaron's like, Because Andy's like, what do you want to say to the other women? And when she says that, like that was what she wanted to say. And Aaron is like, I reached out to you daily and then you blocked me. And Jenna's like, I reached out to you and you just didn't want to talk about it. You completely shut down. And then Bryn's like, yeah, well, sometimes people just like shut down. Which is funny because she was just holding Rebecca to task about, like, not like Rebecca does not want to talk about her religion. And maybe she just. I'm not. This is two totally different things. I'm not trying to say they're at the same level of what is going on here, but the point is that like Bryn, it's just funny what Bryn expects others to understand and to hold space for with her that she doesn't with other people.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, it's also not even about that because I'm not what you're saying. I'm just saying as far as Brynn's saying, she's like, no one comforted me. And she's crying. You just said nobody comforted you. But then we find out that you blocked Aaron and you wouldn't speak with Jenna. And she's like, yeah, Jenna, sometimes people shut down trauma, okay? Yeah, but you're the one accusing people of not reaching out. And they clearly did. Lying again. There you fucking go again. And she's like, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying we reached out and Aaron's like, like, yeah, I wanted to talk to you. I kept saying, are you good? Are you good? Do you know the price of bitcoin today? And Jenna's like, we were concerned. Yeah, we've just talked about you. They're all just so concerned, you know?

[Ronnie Karam]

And Bryn's like, I'm dealing with two things that no woman should have to deal with in life. Which no one is arguing that she's 100. Correct. She goes. And you guys are like, well, you said one thing was different and then you admitted that maybe you were confused the moment and you had a fucking horrible person and you're the worst person there ever was. And it was all this master plan to ruin people lives. It's like, but no one's saying, like, you're a terrible person because this happened to you and that you have trauma as a result of it. It's that like, in that moment you went there. The reason when it was a petty fight with uba, Uber was. Uber was hitting below the belt, saying like, oh, you slept with someone to get here. And your defense of that was, how could you? Yes, but your defense. Yes. And your defense was, how could she say that about me when she knows this was my life experience? You went there with it and then it turns out that actually she didn't know that. So it's like, like that's what people are holding her to task the audience Knows this. I don't. We don't have to preach the audience about this. It's just very frustrating the way that Bryn is interpreting.

[Ben Mandelker]

Pokes and she pokes and she pokes and she pokes and she pokes and she pokes. And she finally gets a reaction and goes, but I've had trauma, and you're. You're being mean to me when I have that trauma. You did this on purpose. You don't get to, like, sit here and cry trauma after you purposely got this person pissed off at you. She's one of the most frustrating people. And this is the segment where everyone's like, no, we're standing strong against Bryn. And I was actually proud of the cast. I was like, wow, they're really standing strong now. Let's watch them all folds. Boo. Boo.

[Ronnie Karam]

So everyone is not lecturing me. So Andy says. He's like, okay, well, at the end of the season, you said there was some ownership, that you were looking for Brand to take over the situation. Aaron, what is that? And Aaron's like, I just think that UBA didn't know, and I think that. That an apology should. She should have an apology so we can just move forward. Sabrina's like, I did say it. Did she know? Of course not. Of course not. I love UBA more than probably most anyone here. So I think that's why it hurts the most. And just, like, fudgeing her to hear that. By the way, if you love Uber the most out of everyone, why were you on her ass the entire trip until UBA snapped? Why? Why is that? Like, let's not forget you just said, Ronnie, that Bryn started this whole thing, which is true. That's not what you do to someone that you love, Bryn.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, just to try and make them lose their temper on TV so you can call them an angry black woman, which we've seen you do multiple times now. So don't say how much you love this person. Fucking obnox. And so now she's losing. We love each other. And, like, I know she didn't mean it, but UBA loves me, and UBA would murder a person for me. Like, I would never hurt UBA on purpose. So then UBA gets up after just telling Brynn, the only time we're going back to is the time before I knew your stupid ass. Now she gets up and she's hugging Bryn and saying, I'm sorry. I can't with this. Uba, listen, I'm on your side, but this is ridiculous. This goes beyond. Because this is going beyond, like, I forgive you as, like, a good, you know, Christian or whatever, or Muslim or whatever. Like, we're supposed to forgive. I'm going to forgive and move on with my life because it's better for me. This is a full on. I love you, Br. I love you. And I just don't. I can't. I can't be. Yes. I can't be on team either after this.

[Ronnie Karam]

So they hug and Uber goes back to her seat and. And. Okay, we'll leave it right there. All right, let's take a break. And then Bryn is like, you know, she's just saying the Brin and UBA have this, like, moment while everyone's offset. And, you know, Bryn is like, just, like. It's like, I felt that way and I'm sorry. But you know me, you know, you know I love you, and you protect me with everything. And. And they're just, like, bonding, and everyone else is in the. They're having this whole private moment. And then Andy comes over. He's like, hey, sorry, I left my phone here. Okay, get back to it. Sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

So funny. He can't go to Grinders without that phone. So this conversation just keeps going on. The slide's like, what is she doing over there? I mean, that's crazy. I mean, this is very kind of uba, considering those allegations would have ruined her. And then we go back to UBA when Bryn saying how much they love each other. They're gonna work on this. And then we go to Cy and Jessel, and they're, you know, they're just, like, giving Jenna credit for finally doing something on this show. And then back on the couch, Bren and UVA are still going on. I'm just skipping most of this Bren Anuba stuff. I can. It's just repetitive. I love you.

[Ronnie Karam]

I love you.

[Ben Mandelker]

I forgive you. I forgive you, but I love you. But I love you. And then the girls are just making small talk back in the dressing room. And then they start this. In Jenna's dressing room, they start this. I really feel bad for her. I really feel bad for Brynn. And so I was like, yeah, I'm starting to feel bad for her too. Well, she's just human, guys. She's just. Yeah, she's broken, guys. She needs love and attention, and all she's getting is, like, hurt people. Hurt people. And that's just how it works, guys.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And UBA's like, they really love you, Brynn. What you said is really hurting them. We'll get through this. And she goes I don't know. This time she's like, sad baby. And. And Uba's like, but with this haircut, you could. You could get to them with this haircut. She's like, maybe. So then in Jenna's dressing room, the producer's trying to, like, take away Jenna's champagne, and she's like, it's ginger ale. It's ginger ale. And then Raquel and the producer says.

[Ben Mandelker]

It'S supposed to be a dry set. Go yourself. Does anybody on this network know what show this is? This is the Real Housewives. What do you mean it's a dry set? No boo boo to this whole show. Cancel it. You know what? If there was any doubt in my mind, it has been erased after that one line from a producer that was probably Eric Fuller. This is a dry. Probably was out of here.

[Ronnie Karam]

Do your job, Raquel. Raquel actually has a nice moment. Like, I know we all are like, oh, don't cave in to Bryn, but if you're gonna cave in, like, you know, I thought this was a. A nice moment. She goes to Bryn's dressing room, and she sort of grabs her by the. The shoulders and she's like, look, I know what I. I. And she says, brienne, I know what I said on camera was really hurtful and my heart was broken for you, and we all love you. And she's, like, crying, and she's like, we just all want us back together. We all really, really love you. It was like a moment of. I thought it was, like, actually a very lovely moment of tenderness from Raquel to someone who was very broken.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't. I think that it was a moment of Raquel following the leader as she's done this whole time. It's like, if everybody's mad at Uba, she's mad at uba. Then if everybody's mad at Bryn, she's mad at Bryn. Now everybody's gonna forgive Brynn. So she's gon and apologize to Bryn and say, like, how sad she is, and they're just all sisters. I think that she's kind of a follower at this point, and I didn't buy one second of that.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then.

[Ben Mandelker]

But, you know, that's me.

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, honestly, I don't care enough. I don't care enough. I thought it was a nice moment. I'm not going to die on a hill about it. It was, like, nice.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's nothing to argue with you about it. I just.

[Ronnie Karam]

No, I know. I'm not taking it that way. I'm just saying, like, I'm just saying, like, this. This. This was so frustrating. It's a long episode.

[Unknown]

It was.

[Ronnie Karam]

I hate to be a hater. I hate being a hater on our show. Like, I hate podcasting and not. Not being able to find, like, the. The funny. Not being able to find the joy. Like, I feel like our job is to. Even in the shittiest or most depressing or saddest episodes, we find the humor. We find the jokes. Like, we. We make it funny and, like, we find the laugh. And honestly, I'm just like, you know what it is? It's. We're so close to the end of this wretched season that I've, like, you know, you get. It's like. It's like when you get. When you. When you start to approach home and you kind of have to go to the bathroom, and the closer you get to home, the more you have to go to the bathroom anymore, you're like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's like, oh, my God, we're so close to the end of this season. I don't even want to find the funny. I just want to put a pin in it and just be like. And that was it for the season. Like, bring out the pavlova, stick your fork in it, and that was it. Like, that's kind of where I'm at. You know, there were some fun moments. There were some laughter, sure. You know, but overall, this was not a good season at all.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, this. This show sucked. And I'm really glad it's ending and over, because it is definitely time. But, yeah, I just. I'm not buying any of this. I would have preferred them to just be like they were before, when they were very firm but still kind with Brynn, they weren't ripping her a new one or calling her a stupid slut or anything like that. I mean, they were being like, listen, this is why what you said was hurtful. And they just stuck to their guns. But now this whole, like, oh, we love you, Bryn. I think it's coming from the whole, like, this is Bravo. And, you know, we've had some rough seasons, and so now we are going to insist on everybody making up at the end, because that's what they do now, you know, where it's like, we're here to make up with each other. And so I think they're like, okay, let's just all go make up with each other when, you know, that girl took no responsibility for shit. I just can't believe if. If she had taken responsibility and said, yes, I was trying to hurt Uba, and that was uncool. Uber me then. Okay. But the fact that she's still sitting there acting like she's the ultimate victim and everybody else is the abuser because they're. They're having the gall to call her out because after she's gone through trauma is ridiculous. And I can't believe that they're all doing it. It's just. I was booing in my.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think. I think what it is, like, it's easy for us to be like, oh, my God, I can't believe you caved in. I think when you're sitting there in front of someone who is, like, broken and someone that you know, and they're just like. You just see they're a broken person, and. And they're, like, in tatters. Like, you can't help but feel, like, kind of bad for them. And, like, I think that's just what happened. I think that's just what happened because we don't have any stakes in it.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think where I'm coming from is I don't see her as broken at all. I see her as a compulsive, lying, evil person. So I think that's being broken. Crying. Any real tears, I think she's gonna finish this and just perk right back up and come right back to life, and it's gonna be like nothing ever happened.

[Ronnie Karam]

She will.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's gonna go. Go on. You know?

[Ronnie Karam]

But I think that's, like, at all. I think if you're a compulsive liar and you're manipulative, you are a broken person. And so they're seeing her. Not. There's. They're seeing, like, oh, she does this because something is broken inside of her, and they just. They go from being angry at it to just sort of compassionate, like, because they. I think they all know our lives will go on, and we're going to thrive and we have a trajectory, but she's going to have to. Until she gets. Until she really deals with this. And, like, it sounds like she's trying to deal with it, but they know. It's like, oh, yeah, we could be mad at her, but we ultimately know, like, like, like our lives will probably be okay going forward. And hers is.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's. It's a tough path forward for her, so they just feel bad. And so, like, for us, it's easy to be like them for going back to her. But I can imagine being in that room and. And you know me, I'm a Softy. Ultimately, I talk a lot of shit, but I'm a softy. And if I were in that room, I'd be like, oh, my God, Britt, I'm gonna give you a hug.

[Ben Mandelker]

Not me.

[Ronnie Karam]

I would have.

[Ben Mandelker]

I wouldn't.

[Ronnie Karam]

Because that's just. I'm.

[Ben Mandelker]

I've dealt with too many people like this in the past to where I just look at this as just. I don't care. I don't see her as broke. I see her as a breaker, not a broken. You know, there comes a point where it's like you're just hurting everybody else, and I don't fall for this burden.

[Ronnie Karam]

People hurt people. Rom broken people break people.

[Ben Mandelker]

But how many people aren't hurt? How many people haven't gone through trauma? How many people aren't broken in so many ways? Like, I don't like this, like, mentality of, oh, my brokenness is more important than everybody else here. I mean, she's sitting here talking to uba. God knows from her stories what this woman has gone through. She's not using that against people. I just. There's not. There's not a free card to use it. And the more that people do shit like that, it just. It fills me with disgust. It really does. I hate it. So Andy's back with his final thoughts. Okay, Jenna, you were serving with glasses. Why'd you take them off? She's like, to quote Aaron, I feel bad. I feel bad.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, so this continues for a very long. Final thoughts. Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Nothing that's over.

[Ronnie Karam]

Pavlova. I mean, Pavlova, people. Goodness. Bring in the Pavlova. Okay, there's more talk, there's more monologues, there's more this, there's more that. I gotta improve myself. I want to be there. Like, I don't have a mic.

[Ben Mandelker]

I have.

[Ronnie Karam]

I feel bad for Jess. I feel. I. It's so. It's happened. We've seen it a million times on this episode alone. Pavlova. Cue the Pavlova.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's not just any Pavlova. This is Naomi Watts Pavlova.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

See?

[Ronnie Karam]

Finally. Why do we. Why do we drop that in there? Wait, this. All this time, Jenna's Pavlova was Naomi Watts's Pavlova. Why do you wait till the end of the season to tell us that? We could have had a whole episode on that. Like, that's the fun stuff, right?

[Ben Mandelker]

What's going on with Naomi Watts? Is she just a Pavlova person now? Like, I don't know. I've got to look at it a business.

[Ronnie Karam]

Naomi Watts. Pavlova. What?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Where did this come from? Is it a famous. Ooh, a vegan swan. Pavlova. Disgusting. I don't even see anything about it. I mean, not even Pavlova.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, you know, now it ends with basically Bryn being a huge victim and everybody apologizing to Bryn somehow and they eat a pavlova and that's it. And when this show ended, I literally screamed off and die, so go yourself. And I don't take it back. But I will say, you know, one of my hobbies is rage. And I felt it coursing through me during this whole show and during this entire recap. So I get what you're saying, but I had fun.

[Ronnie Karam]

No, I did not have fun with this episode. I didn't have fun watching. Watching it. And I. I had. I always have fun talking to you, Ronnie. But this was. This was a task. This was of the hardest podcast episodes to do only because it was just. It was just. It just kept on going. It kept on going.

[Unknown]

We've.

[Ronnie Karam]

We've covered boring ass episodes before, but this one really, this one I think broke me today.

[Ben Mandelker]

This one took the Pavlova.

[Ronnie Karam]

This. My. My meringue is cracked at the moment.

[Ben Mandelker]

That you didn't break.

[Ronnie Karam]

This show broke. This episode broke me. Okay, just give me jle, give me Jessel, give me uba. Somehow became someone who's pro saw ditch the rest.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, we'll see. I have a feeling they're bringing back everybody. We heard that Rebecca's gone, but this whole. This, this whole thing was to save Bryn at the end. And I'll bet they bring them all back. I mean, it. It ended up getting record ratings for it. For it. I mean, it's still not great ratings, but really, we're all hate watching slc, which is their best show of the year in our minds. So who knows? They follow the ratings, they follow the money. So they will probably bring it back. So buckle buttercup.

[Ronnie Karam]

Look, Dubai, in my opinion, had a terrible first season and then they had a hilarious and excellent second season. Now, unfortunately, no one watched it because they had a bad first season. So I. I do know that these shows can rebound. So, you know, I'm just saying this season I didn't like and we'll go forward. We'll see what happens next season, but.

[Ben Mandelker]

We'Ll see what happens.

[Ronnie Karam]

My Pavlova is correct. My Pavlov correct. I am done and I am over it. Okay. I am done.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I can't wait to come back and Give you more shit for another entire year. Bring it on. All right, everybody, thanks so much for being with us. You can find videos of all our recaps over at Patreon as well as our traders recaps. And find tickets for the Watch what Happens live tour and replays of the golden crappies over at watch what crappens.com. we'll talk to you next next time.

[Ronnie Karam]

Bye. Watch what Happens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King Our.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ben Mandelker]

Plain she ain't no shrinking violet Cootar we love you guys if you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.