#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island

Summary

Watch What Crappens Podcast Summary
Episode #2745: Southern Charm Season 10, Episode 12 - "Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island"
Release Date: February 28, 2025

Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam | Wondery

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Introduction

In Episode #2745 of "Watch What Crappens," hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve into Southern Charm Season 10, Episode 12 titled "Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island." This episode primarily focuses on the tumultuous interactions among cast members, highlighting conflicts, alliances, and emotional confrontations that escalate tensions within the group.

Episode Overview

[05:03] Recap of Key Plot Points

• JT's Arrival and Behavior:

  • JT arrives in the Bahamas, displaying diva-like behavior by showing up late, leaving early, and throwing fits.
  • Ronnie expresses sympathy:

    "I actually feel bad for the guy... he should just stick it through like that's the job."
    (05:22)

• Shep's Pursuit of Sienna:

  • Shep attempts to rekindle his relationship with Sienna, who is 20 years his junior and lives far away.
  • Ronnie finds Shep's actions uncomfortable:

    "Watching Shep just trying to win back over Sienna... that one had me squirming way more than the substance ever did."
    (05:48)

• Craig's Confrontations:

  • Craig accuses JT of lying about past incidents, particularly involving Patricia, leading to heated exchanges.
  • Ben criticizes Craig's honesty:

    "He is the one most likely candidate of everyone on the cast to make something up, to fabricate something out of thin air."
    (08:25)

• Dinner Scene Tensions:

  • The group gathers for dinner where passive-aggressive comments and unresolved tensions come to the forefront.
  • Ronnie highlights Madison's awkwardness:

    "Madison's applying chocolate syrup to her lips... how is this gonna blend together?"
    (08:52)

• Boat Trip Fallout:

  • Plans for a boat trip to Shudder Island are marred by conflicts, leading to discussions about JT potentially being excluded.
  • Ben observes JT's failed attempts to socialize:

    "He just doesn't seem to really understand how to connect with the rest of his castmates."
    (18:51)

• Vanita's Attempt to Support JT:

  • Vanita tries to comfort JT by entering his room, leading to an intimate and awkward conversation.
  • Ronnie critiques Vanita's approach:

    "She straddles him... she's trying to convince him to stay, but it's all very cringy."
    (39:11)

• Shep's Breakdown and Departure:

  • After a night of heavy drinking and wandering, Shep expresses his longing for love and ultimately decides to leave.
  • Ben narrates Shep's emotional state:

    "He's trying my best here... this poor guy."
    (35:55)

Hosts' Analysis and Opinions

Character Evaluations:

• JT:

  • Initially welcomed but becomes an easy target due to his inability to navigate group dynamics.
  • Ronnie sums it up:

    "He overplayed his hand and messed up right out of the gate."
    (25:06)

• Craig:

  • Accused of lying and fabricating stories to manipulate group perceptions.
  • Ben emphasizes Craig's dishonesty:

    "He has always been someone who's played telephone, and he believes that he heard this, but he's wrong."
    (36:00)

• Vanita:

  • Attempts to mediate and support JT but ends up in uncomfortable situations.
  • Ronnie points out her missteps:

    "She shouldn't waste herself on JT; she's one of the biggest catches on the show."
    (43:03)

• Shep:

  • Portrayed as emotionally fragile, struggling to win back Sienna and dealing with personal issues.
  • Ben notes Shep's deteriorating behavior:

    "Shep's just so sad... he's spiraling out of control."
    (31:15)

Key Themes:

• Lack of Empathy and Communication:

  • The group struggles with effective communication, leading to misunderstandings and amplified conflicts.
  • Ronnie criticizes the group's inability to address issues maturely:

    "Nothing's happening on this show; it's ridiculous with this cast."
    (36:21)

• Manipulation and Gaslighting:

  • Craig employs manipulation tactics, gaslighting JT and others to maintain his stance.
  • Ben calls out Craig's tactics:

    "He's using this language because they had all agreed to get JT off the show."
    (36:21)

• Emotional Unavailability:

  • Multiple cast members exhibit emotional unavailability, exacerbating tensions and unresolved issues.
  • Ronnie summarizes JT's plight:

    "JT is still struggling to own his emotions and connect authentically with the group."
    (34:11)

Notable Hosts' Quotes:

• Ben:

  "He’s all sad. He’s trying to get anybody to believe that he has them in the first place."
  (26:35)

• Ronnie:

  "I can only imagine how the audience feels. So Shep... I'm just screaming for Shep."
  (53:31)

• Ben:

  "It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. So I don't know."
  (65:26)

Key Insights and Conclusions

Group Dynamics Deterioration: The episode showcases a clear breakdown in group cohesion, with personal grievances overshadowing collective goals. JT's inability to adapt and Craig's manipulative behavior intensify divisions, leading to Shep's emotional exit.

Lack of Resolution: Conflicts remain unresolved, with characters leaving episodes on poor terms rather than addressing underlying issues. This lack of closure perpetuates ongoing tensions and sets the stage for future confrontations.

Character Flaws Highlighted: Each character's flaws—from JT's social ineptitude to Craig's dishonesty—are magnified, offering the audience a critical view of their actions and motivations within the group dynamic.

Hosts' Final Takeaways:

• Ben:

  "This is so double standard with Craig... it's a bit of a mess."
  (33:25)

• Ronnie:

  "Everything about this makes me cringe for Shep. Like, oh my God, she doesn't like you."
  (56:06)

Conclusion: "Southern Charm" Season 10, Episode 12, "Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island," serves as a pivotal moment for the cast, highlighting deep-seated issues and setting up potential storylines for future episodes. Ben and Ronnie provide a candid critique, emphasizing the need for better communication and authenticity among the group to restore harmony.

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Transcript

[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ronnie Karam]

Watch what crap Crap.

[Unknown]

Watch what happens.

[Ronnie Karam]

Watch what crap is Watch what happens. Who cares what happens when there's so much happen. Watch what happens. Who cares what happens when there's so much that crappens.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hello and welcome to Watch what Crapp, a podcast for all the crap we'd love to talk about on Ye old brs. Happy Friday everybody. I'm Ronnie. And that is the gorgeous, thin and well, Croft, Ben Maner. Hello, Ben.

[Ronnie Karam]

Hi, Ronnie. How's it going?

[Ben Mandelker]

Good. How you doing over there?

[Ronnie Karam]

Doing great, thanks. Doing great. Just, you know, Friday. Happy to be at Friday.

[Ben Mandelker]

Has any beauty queen texted you back today?

[Unknown]

Of course.

[Ronnie Karam]

Gosh, I've been waiting. Oh, gosh.

[Ben Mandelker]

Maybe that's what I'm just a. Gosh, waiting in a store. Everybody, it is Southern Charm Day. Welcome. Before we get started, we're on the Mounting Hysteria tour. That's a tour that we go to your city. It's so fun. We're going to be in March. We're going to be in Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Toronto, Charlotte, Atlanta, Washington, Philadelphia, and then other places including Boston, Detroit, Chicago, Austin, Dallas, Las Vegas, Los Angeles. Hasn't been announced yet, but I'm sure that's coming up. So check out our website. Watch whatcrappens.com for ticket links and dates and all that good stuff. Also, if you want Traders recaps, guess what? We do those. Yay. They're on our Patreon, and so are videos like the one that we're doing right now. So if you'd rather watch some video recaps, go over there to do it patreon.com/watch what crappens. Or just join our YouTube and you get it a week later for free. So what's going on with you, Ben? What's new in your life since yesterday?

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, you know, just been exciting times over here. Watch some Southern charm, watch some traders, watch the substance. Really watched a lot of things in the past 24 hours, and they were all very visceral. So, you know, that's basically what's new with me. What's new with you?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, me too. It's been a visceral world over here, too. I'm still reading Lonesome Dove. That is nothing but pure pain and gore and disgust. I don't know how that's one of the most romantic books of all our time, but I'm on the fourth book. I'm vowing to finish this book, even though I'm disgusted. And I watched the Traders UK and that was really good. Loved it. And I ordered a laser thing online that, like, gets rid of hair. So I've been, like, waiting right the door, waiting for my laser thing to show up so I could start carrying myself. I'm gonna be so. I'm gonna be smooth like a seal next time you see. Wow.

[Ronnie Karam]

Are you gonna. Are you gonna apply it? Where are you gonna apply it?

[Ben Mandelker]

Everywhere. I want no hair everywhere. I want to look like a basic Wii character when I'm done.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wow. Okay, well, that's gonna be exciting. It'll be a smooth experience for you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so that's my big news in life. Let's get on with this recap. Southern Charm Season 10 Episode 12 Lost at Sea oh, poor Gar. Poor little shepherd in love with somebody that he's met three times, is 20 years younger and doesn't live anywhere near him.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, poor guy. You know, I. I did mention that I just watched the Substance, which, you know, I was warned it's like a really gross movie. And I swear I think that like it was only the second grossest thing I watched last night because I don't know, watching, watching Shep, just trying to try, try to just like win back over Sienna. Like that one had me squirming way more than the substance ever did.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I mean, no one even likes the title of the substance that watches this show because I feel like if you're any self respecting woman, what you're trying to avoid from any man on the show is the substance. Okay, Just stay away from them. They're gross. They're all gross. Including you, Craig, you compulsive liar. But we'll get to that in a moment. So we start with horror music playing because is arriving in Bahama and you know, JT is kind of diving out, which I don't really like. I think he's too new to be pulling this diva of like showing up late and leaving early and throwing fits and doing all of this. But he did lead to the only interesting things about the episode. So, you know, team JT for now.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I, I actually feel bad for the guy. I agree. He should just stick it through like that's the job. And there's always gonna be uncomfortable moments, there's always gonna be pylons. But. But I did feel bad for him.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then out freeways can't stand, stay standing. So accept your pylon, jt.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, and when he did arrive, you know, last week we talked about how on this show they, they like smash all the keys on the keyboard. And they did that like in a, in like a song. They made it like as he walked into Baja Mar. Which I appreciated. And then now we see everyone else like arriving back at the hotel because they were all on their afternoon adventures where we last saw them and Madison's like, okay, everyone drama today. So then they're all going to like get ready for tonight, get washed, etc, Molly has sunburn and eventually Taylor Goes into Vanita's room and asks how the fish fry was. And Vanita says she thought they'd be frying fish, but instead they were just getting fried on alcohol.

[Ben Mandelker]

And she was like, oh, my God, isn't it so cute? JT just texted me asking me about his shoes. And then she's showing the pictures of jt, you know, showing himself posing in different shoes, and it's not cute. And why are you still even accepting text from this person? And why are you giddy over it? You're making me very uncomfortable at this point, Vanita. Okay, I know we make fun of your dog scenes, but I like you. I'm. I'm rooting for Vanita. I feel like we've always been rooting for Vanita, but you're trying me at this point.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I agree. So Taylor basically. Vanita basically says that they vowed to have a night of no tomfoolery. And Taylor's like, like, I agree. And Vanita says, you know, I just want everyone to get along, and everyone is mad at jt so I'm like, once we get over that hump, we could be great. Yeah, good luck with that.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then Madison's calling Brett, and Brett's also very excited. I swear, they must have some charisma meter on this show, because everybody on it is just brimming. She calls her man and she's like, hi, Harry. And he's like, good, good. Well, what you doing? Nothing. Just working. I miss you. That's work. It's hot. Madison, he's a fireman. How do you think it is? Okay, so we are done.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, she's. And meanwhile, she's like, applying chocolate syrup to her lips. I was like, what is happening over there? She's like, tell me more, Brett. Like, her lips are like this, like, dark, dark, black, like, syrupy stuff on them. I was like, how is this gonna blend together? And then when we see her later, her lips are just, like, light. So I felt like I was set up for a story that did not pay off well.

[Ben Mandelker]

Now, like, in modern makeup, the ladies put on many, many layers of crazy things, you know, and this is an episode that really points that out. So maybe there was, like, a base of lip and then another thing for the lip and then another thing. Like when you were a kid and you would scribble with crayon on a piece of paper and then cover it all in black crayon and then scratch out pictures. They would be like multi colored pictures. You know what I mean? Did you ever do That I didn't do that.

[Ronnie Karam]

But that's interesting.

[Ben Mandelker]

Lame. So. Well, it must have been my Montessori school. Just kidding. I didn't go to my. Sorry school. And anyway, there's a lot of stuff. And later we see it with Molly putting on her makeup where she gets the really dark thing and just like, lines her face for the contouring.

[Ronnie Karam]

I know everyone's like, getting ready for Lion King.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And then she looks fairly normal by the time she goes to dinner. Couldn't you just put on a little, like, I don't know, eyeliner?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm really big on eyeliner. After watching the Traders uk because the hostess of that show is. She's basically a walking eyeliner stick. That's. She's an eyeliner stick with bangs. And so that's all I really ever.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's pretty much as close to a crow as a human can be. Like, she has that jet black hair with the bangs. And she comes in and I love the way she scolds everyone, but she's, like, very supportive. But then she scolds, like, during the challenges, she can't help. She breaks character all the time and cheers them on. But then at the round table, she's like, I want you to think about this. You just sent home a faithful. Think about that. Think about it tonight when you're sleeping. Like, okay, I get it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay. So now everybody goes over to dinner and Craig and Austin are wearing the same outfit. It's a big episode where guys are dressing each other too and they're like, wearing matching matchy matchy things. Like, later, Craig and Sep wear short rompers, you know, And I don't know, it's all. It's all very confusing. I'm not really sure what's happening this episode, but they go to dinner and Molly's ass decides to do more work than she has this season by sweating. So that's good. Someone's making an effort. And then Whitney shows up to dinner, and then JT comes in and the music's like. It's like every dying sound of every instrument.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And then everyone says hi. And Vanita. Vanita's like, there's a different type of joy when JT's in the room for me? Yeah, sure. I mean, it just feels like we've been told these things, but they're like, I still don't fully believe them, you know? So they all get on this bus and everything and like, people who like JT go on JT's bus but people. People who can't stand him go on a different bus. And Mass is like, I just wanna. I just wanna flick. I just want to flick him out of here. Just like a little. Little flick, flick, flick, flick, flick. So JT's like, well, I'm cautiously hopeful to be here. I mean, there's enough relationships in this friend group that I do care about that it's worth the awkward feeling that I have right now. My chest and my heart and my gut, I'm like, okay, just. You're. You're in the Bahamas. Have fun. Come on.

[Ben Mandelker]

My chest, my heart, my gut.

[Ronnie Karam]

I have enough. I feel it in my neck, my back, my. On my crack. A lot of friendships.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Shep is also moping around in the van, you know, because his girl still doesn't like him. And so they're like, good to have you, jt. And Whitney's like, yeah, yeah, I'm here too. I was just chilling today. She was like, yeah, this is good for you. You're gonna be happy, jt. You're gonna love it here. Just look, everybody else is. One girl won't show up. Whitney won't show up. Vanita showed up a day late. Everybody else stayed in bed all day. It's been great, great time.

[Ronnie Karam]

So now they all arrive at dinner, and JT and Madison are on opposite ends of the table. And then it's like Sally has to sit next to jt, but she doesn't really want to. So then Craig basically. Well, Sally's like. She's like, absolutely not. Sorry. I just do not like that guy. I mean, that's someone who. I would not given a BJ2 in the parking lot of a Great American, if you know what I'm saying. Actually, it's pretty obvious. I literally just said it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, she's. We cut back to why she's mad, and it's because at the tuba party, JT confronted her about breaking up the very healthy previous relationship of Gaston by giving him a kind of blowjob in the great American parking lot. So now, you know, order. Shep goes over to Sally and he's like, hey, hey. You know, I think we just, you know, we click. And she doesn't want to lose that. And I don't either. You know, I'm talking about Sienna. Just in case you're. In case you're wondering what I'm talking about. I just need someone new that's not sick of me yet to listen to this act. I'm trying to tell everybody I'm a man A man who can feel love.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Craig tells JT Craig has now taken Sal over Sally's seat because she doesn't want to sit next to. Next to J.T. so he's like, I've been dealing with this all day. I'm just listening. And Sally's like, well, you deserve better, Shep, and I don't want to see you get hurt. I'm like, I don't know if Shep deserves better. I think he deserves exactly this. Like, after all the years that we've seen Shep on tv, this is the precise thing that his actions require.

[Ben Mandelker]

So he's like, I appreciate that I'm a boy. And then Taylor just rolls her eyes. So then Craig's like. Someone's like, well, don't worry, Sienna's showing up tomorrow. And Craig's like, he thinks she is, but she's not. It's very obvious she's str him on now. Okay, all right, Craig, you know what? You're not wrong, but you've been in a relationship for one minute. That doesn't make you a relationship expert. Just please be quiet, Greg. Frank's getting worse and worse with every episode.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And then Austin's like, jesus Christ, man. And Craig's like, his head has been scrambled the entire time trying to figure out where they stand. Well, you know Craig. Craig has not one single ounce of empathy. So, like, Madison, I'm sorry to notice.

[Ben Mandelker]

But your chest is just glistening and, like, thanks. That was the point of buying them.

[Ronnie Karam]

So food arrives. It's all lovely and delicious, and Shep is like, hey, Molly, not to belabor the point, but remember how I was telling you about the text I sent to Sienna? The really romantic text that will surely win her over? The one that ends with, thank you for listening to my TED Talk? And she's like, oh, my God, yes. Oh, okay. So what, you want to talk about it? It. So then he starts showing her the text, and he's like, this is what I sent her. And she's actually being. Since she likes Shep, she's being supportive, even though she knows this is a creepy ass, terrible attack. She's like, oh, my God, this is really sweet. Oh, and that line about, oh, my heart sings when I'm with you. Oh, my God, you're gonna make me cry. This is so sweet.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, my God. And her freckled little lips. I just. That is so cute. Oh, my God. Too Garch or not to Garsh. Oh, my God. Chef. Yep. You're. You're, like, poetic. You're like, poetic. And Madison's watching. It's like, hey, ding dong, you got Molly right there, who actually likes you. Okay? I mean, why don't you shoot your shot with someone that seems to you because she lives in the same town, and he can't consistently cheat on her, and then he'd actually have to make an effort to be in a relationship. And the Sienna thing is fake anyway. I don't. I don't know what you people aren't understanding. It's really annoying that nobody on this cast really understands or they do understand, and they're just too bored to call it out.

[Ronnie Karam]

Out.

[Ben Mandelker]

Come to work. Yeah, cast.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, exactly. So Shep is like. I mean, if you got that text message, would you be like, over the moon, a free TED Talk? And she's like, yeah. I mean, even though you don't have any freckles on your lips. Oh, I'm a changed man. Look at me making cute jokes.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, oh, my God, do you need freckles? I'll put freckles on my lips. Like, whatever you need. What do you need me to do to stay on the show? I've already dated Whitney, so I really don't know what else I could do. Sure. Someone hand me an eyeliner pencil. Okay. Mama's got to pay the mortgage.

[Ronnie Karam]

So then JT's asking about the boat tomorrow, and Shep says, they're gonna go on, like, a boat trip. It's gonna be like, Jamaica, mon, and it's gonna be a 400 foot boat. And Sally is saying, oh, good, it's big enough where I don't have to. They won't notice if you go missing. Referring to jt, and he's like, would you like some.

[Ben Mandelker]

Some food? Salad? Why don't I hand the missus this? As everyone knows, I'm a respecter of the female. And she's like, oh, God. And they're like, wow, look at that. It looks like JT's making an effort to get along. Says, oh, yeah. He handed me a plate. Big whoop. I love your hair tonight as well. Love that too. Don't with me, jt. He's like, you're also stunning, I might add.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, this is where JT goes wrong because he does these things that he like. These are like, textbook chivalrous things, right? You're giving a compliment to a lady, and so therefore, you're getting along. But it's like, nope, that's not how you communicate with someone. That's not how you connect with someone. You're just giving comments that are kind of creepy and make people want to be like. So, like, he just. He doesn't seem to really understand. Like, he doesn't understand how to connect with these, the rest of his castmates. And that's his big downfall among many other things. Not that there's far for him to fall, but either way.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Craig is like just general apologizing. Like, I don't think she needs you to hand her a plate of food and call her pretty. Okay. I think that she's used to like, homely dudes handing her plates of food and calling her pretty. Like, that's probably 90 of her life in that town. Okay. She needs you to say sorry for slut shaming you in front of everybody, especially a new group of friends that don't even really know you yet. Sorry about that. Yeah, like, sorry I couldn't get laid by my dream girl. And so I turned it into a big drama about how you're being mean to her because I'm a complete simp. But, you know, maybe I'll try to be better, you know, she doesn't care about your sausage links, you douche.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So Craig's like, I think you hurt Sally's feelings some of the things you said before. And JT is like, well, I think that sometimes I'll come to people's defense and sometimes when I do, but you know, there's bullets are stray and. And I gotta work on that. It's like not. It's just. Just say sorry. Yeah, yeah, he's stupid. So then Craig is like, hey, hey, can everyone move down two seats to the left? And so everyone rotates because everyone thinks it's like a game or something. And Craig is, Thanks. I just didn't want to be at the end of the table. He's like, I want to be in the center of all the action. So I'm making everyone else move for me.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ben Mandelker]

So Sally at least is trying to earn a paycheck. She's like, jt, don't you think it's a problem when there's like four people in here that you have to apologize to? And he's like, I going had a little, little hot water for a while. I'm good, I'm good. She's like, don't you feel weird about it? He's like, you know what? There's a lot to say to a lot of people, but I'd prefer that it's one on one. And I feel this with my heart, my soul, my gut, my ankle bones, my kneecaps. Fill it with every bit of my pen.

[Ronnie Karam]

But how are you gonna make room for everyone you've upset? Because it's a lot. Well, I'm trying to show respect to each of you by not bringing stuff up at the table. I'm like, that's showing disrespect. Because people's paychecks depend on being able to fight at a dinner table on a TV show. So it's totally disrespectful what you're doing.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And they're like, leave him alone. She's like, no, everything's on his term. I don't want to talk about it later. I want to talk about it now. Now. And he's like, okay. That's fine. And she's like, fine, then don't talk to me. And Craig's like, but you see why it's not gonna be fun to go out on a party boat if all of us have something to talk to you about. Like, why don't you just apologize to people?

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, I will say something here, Craig. It bothers me greatly that you lied and you offended Miss Patricia like that, because I didn't say that word about her. Yeah, you did. You said she was a. At the cop when you handed her the cane. Craig, you're lying. It was loud and clear. Assassin's like, he would not make that up. He would not. I love when people come to Craig's defense and say he would not make up. He literally has lied for years on the show. He lied about his law school. What more do people want? Like, you can say. You can say that you like Craig. You can say you find him charming, that he's grown, but you cannot say that he would 100 not make something up. He is the one most likely candidate of everyone on the cast to make something up, to fabricate something out of thin air.

[Ben Mandelker]

And JT's like, hey, wooden, now you're a hundred percent sure that Craig's not lying. I don't think Craig gets me. Gets off on making us feel like. Especially his mother. She's very, very rich. Now, the thing with JT is, I believe jt. I don't think he called her a. And he didn't say the word affair and everything that we're about to get into. I don't think he did that stuff. The problem is he did come in swinging at everybody at the beginning of the season. He did insinuate that Madison, Madison's husband, was super jealous, which he was. When we found out. When Madison said that, he did get pissed. And they did call him for clarity, but it wasn't really about an affair. So we do know that he was jealous, but still, it wasn't really his business to be, you know, making that camera fodder or whatever. So she has a right to be pissed. But the problem is he's made everybody pissed, so there's nobody to stand up for, you know, stand up to Craig because they don't care. They don't even. They know that Craig is lying. They don't even care that Craig is lying because he's against somebody they all hate. That's you. And you did this to yourself.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, I think JT came into this season feeling like he had a really strong Freshman outing. You know, I think the audience, by and large, liked him, even if he was, like, annoying at times. He stood up to Austin. People liked that. And I think he came in thinking that he, like, understood the game now, and now he was going to make his move to really, like, center himself in the show, and he. He overplayed his hand, and he messed up right out of the gate, and he was never able to. To. To come back. And then he's been stuck on the outlines. People are not filming with him. He knows it. And now he's coming back, coming in, and he's sort of like, now he's gonna try to play the pity card, and he's just failing at it. He just completely flopped this season, even if he is in the right on these situations.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he was. He was at Bravo Con. And this is the image that will always stick with me, years later, of jt, And I think this summed him up pretty well. He's walking in, and there's, like, a group of people taking pictures, like a fake paparazzi or whatever. And when. Whenever they come in, they're like, well, so he came into some lukewarm woos. I would say some lukewarm woos. And then he had a water bottle, and he, like, threw the water bottle up to catch it and look cool, but then the water bottle exploded in his face. I think he didn't have the top on or something, so he caught it and it, like, squeezed all over his face. And, like, he had a moment of looking embarrassed and then was just like. And just started pouring it all over himself and then raised his arms to, like, do double politician waves and had really sweaty armpits. And I was like, this poor guy. Guy, you know.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's just kind of sad. And so that's kind of the image that will always stick with me. And that's pretty much every scene he's done since.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. Guy. So. So then Craig is like, shep was there. He saw you call her a. No, you're living in alternate reality. Craig. Ship back me up on this. And. And Matt's like, ship. What are you gonna say about that? Shep's like, well, gosh. Well, you heard it from Sienna's pretty.

[Ben Mandelker]

Little freckled lips first.

[Ronnie Karam]

That. I. I didn't hear that. I'm on record set by thing. I did not hear that.

[Ben Mandelker]

And so, hey, we have a gay person here. Let's have him say something gay. Cut to the gay person. And so Rodrigo's like, I'm shook. Thanks. All Right. Someone pay the man. So Taylor's like, that's one thing I don't believe, because JT's not the type of person to ever, ever. You demean a woman. Well, except when he slut shames one for kind of giving a blowjob job.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Vanita is like, that's why it's hard for me. And. And by the way, Vanita, like, this is your buddy. Why don't you, like. Why don't you help him out? Like, Vanita's like, honestly, very quiet for someone that's, like, her, like, friend and everything, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, the cast doesn't talk to Vanita either, so I don't think she's, like, really in a power position where she would. They would listen to her either. And I think she knows it. I think she's barely hanging on with this group, you know? Like, she doesn't offend anybody, but she doesn't. Nobody hangs out with her either. So I think she's. I think she feels like her position is tenuous enough, and it's already bad enough that she's kind of tied herself to this monstrosity this season, but who knows? So she's like, yeah, this is really hurting me. And Taylor's like, well, there's one thing he would never say, and he would never say the B word about her. So Craig's like, did you not say something about Austin, too? And Audrey? Yeah, but he hates them, and Austin hates him, so who cares? Like, we need to separate all of the issues and not make them one big issue.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, Craig is just trying to come for. Just trying to come for jt, you know? And you said shit about Madison and her husband, and you made fun of, like, the FaceTiming thing on your vacation. He's like, I didn't say that. I didn't make fun of everyone. Okay, dude? She goes, did you say the word affair? No. And Craig's like, well, I stand by everything I fucking said. So JT is, like, losing his mind because he's like, he's lying about that, you know? And she's like, do you remember that Chip? And Shep is like, gar. Garsh the fair. No, it was. Gar was nonsensical. The exact opposite of the Vietnam War by Ken Burns. Honestly, I didn't understand what he was saying.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then we cut back to the golf place where JT is talking about Madison putting on his Blue stripes in Jamaica, and it made Brett feel a little weird. And Vanita's like, but you didn't Say the B word.

[Ronnie Karam]

Right?

[Ben Mandelker]

You said the word affair. So what's the story? And JT's like, Craig lot. That's the story. And Madison's like, I'm starting to realize this might be a little bit blown out of proportion, and maybe Craig, you know, said it a little too dramatic or something. So now, jt, I'm not going to embarrass you in front of all these people. So next time I embarrass you, it'll be one on one on national television. When I say something like, you think I would have an affair with you?

[Ronnie Karam]

I would love to. I would love to talk. I'd love to talk. Thank you, Madison. Thank you. She goes, I'll give JT half an inch on this one. So Craig's like, I really thought you were gonna own your man and apologize to everyone. Watch Craig when confronted with the fact that there's no audio evidence or any evidence whatsoever from production. Still not apologize to J.T. at the reunion.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, because they just showed us a clip, too, of Craig lying. Because that's not at all what JT said. They just showed a clip of JT saying, Well, I handed Ms. Patricia Kane and she didn't take it. That was weird. Weird. Which is not the same as saying, that old woman's a. You know, so.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, correct. I didn't lie. What you said, flame this. It's like. What? You said, flame this. Ha. Got you.

[Ben Mandelker]

So he's like, you know, things are not gonna get better with me sitting here, so I'm gonna go to the bar. So Ryan's like, oh, I'm shook as well. All right. Another gay getting his paycheck. So he runs off after Craig to do nothing thing, as Ryan does on the show. And JT's like, Jesus Christ. That's why I didn't want to get into it. And Craig's just like, this is like the Twilight Zone.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then basically, Shep is trying to give JT advice. Like, hey, man, calm and collected. Gets the point across.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, you were. You're off the rails. Like, why the. Why JT? And JT's like, well, Craig gasless dude. He's like, hold on, hold on. No, he gaslit. He gaslit him. He gaslit you. He gaslit me. This guy's out of control. He's making me seem crazy. Yeah, but, like, you've had so many opportunities to come in and be like. And be cool and be chill and. But it seems like every time you just, like, everywhere that you step, it's insane. Right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hey, but, Austin, if you're gonna talk like that, why don't you talk that way to Craig? I mean, how come you only talk like that to jt but not to Craig? And he's like, don't you dare compare the two. There you go. He's like, yeah, but you just sit there quiet as a church mouse with Craig. And he's like, don't you dare compare to the ch.

[Ronnie Karam]

So now Ryan and Craig are talking the bar. And Ryan's like, he. He came here tonight to call you a liar. And. Yeah, well, I don't have a transcript of exactly what he said. No, I don't. But I know what I heard, which was, so Shep's a. Because Shep was there with me. But Shep's so messed up with his Sienna thing that he just wants everyone to get along, which doesn't make any sense. So then I guess. What does that have to do with anything? I guess he's saying that Shep wants everyone to get along. So when Sienna hangs out, she's not, like, horrified by the group, I guess.

[Ben Mandelker]

But she's never gonna hang out, so it shouldn't really matter. And, you know, I had some doubts before when this first came up, because I was like, well, maybe JT said in a separate conversation, patricia's a. And use the word affair or something. Maybe it was off camera. But now Craig is specifying, no, it was that day when Shep was there. And we just saw the footage of saying that. So stupid, right? So then back at the table, Sally is also mad at Shep. She's like, I'm just confused, like, why you've got JT's back when you've been friends with these guys forever. He's like, I just. I don't ever hold back. I'll tell you how I feel. And Austin's the one who holds back, okay? And now he's going for it. And I was like, that is a different animal. How dare you compare that to.

[Ronnie Karam]

But it's true. No, you're wrong. Well, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Wait, wait. What?

[Ben Mandelker]

You're backstabbed. Immediately. He's like, okay, you're not wrong here. I don't have to be mad anymore. So, yeah, I mean, this is so double standard.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ish. With Craig, Austin talks a big game until it's time to talk the big game. But jt, he's an easy target. I stand for justice. Thank you for listening to my TED Talk. I'm Gonna reuse that a few times.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Austin's like, yeah, I still hold a grudge, and you're a piece of. But all these other people have an issue with you, man. Okay? Like, everyone does. So blah, blah, blah. So Sally's like, well, I'm making this statement right now. I will not go on the boat if JT doesn't. If JT goes on the boat, Sally, you're doing nothing on this show. Okay? Bring JT on the boat. Hit him on the boat. What's a party without a pinata? Okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

And I guarantee the producers are going to pick JT over Sally because JT is in more conflict right now. So enjoy your time hanging out by the pool. So Austin's like, oh, you're a little weasel, Fox. JT. So JT's just like, well, Austin basically says that, like, you know, JT doesn't care what people have to say. And JT's like, hot. Vanita, weigh in, please. Come on, Vanita. And Vanita's like, ah, I can't. She's, like, crying. So Austin.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's really hurting me. And Austin tells him. He's literally a piece of. So JT's like, I'm out.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm out.

[Ben Mandelker]

You're not. None of you all worth my time. And so he leaves. And then JT's like, for you to call me a piece of after how you handled your last year, he's like, I'll go deflected someone else. I don't care. How dare you. So JT leaves, which, you know, I feel like they just need to start putting guardrails up to stop letting cast members leave at this point. It's ridiculous with this cast. Like, no one's there. They've got, like, half. They've got half a cast every time they shoot. And two of those people are jt. And the other one. I'm not jt, Rodrigo. And the other one. One. You don't do anything.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ryan.

[Ben Mandelker]

What are you guys doing?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So Shep goes over to the bar. He, like, startles Craig. And Craig's like, I've never done anything with ill intent. I'm, like, a little disappointed in you, man. You were there, and she was like, no, no, no, no, no. Gosh, we're in a good place. I'm a good little boy, and I just don't. I don't want to interfere with that. No, I'm not upset with you. I just wish you would have been like, jt, you were wrong that day. Like, but no, there's no reason to be upset. I know you're not upset. And Ryan, like, let him dig his own grave. That was a good one, guys. Right, guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then Craig actually believes his lies, or what is Craig doing, you think?

[Ronnie Karam]

I think he believes it. I think Craig believes it because I think Craig hears things that aren't always true. I mean, he has always been someone who's played telephone, and, you know, he believes that he heard this, but he's wrong. And the fact that he has such conviction is, like, annoying because it's like, you do this all the time. You didn't hear it. Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

My theory is that he knows this didn't happen and he's just using the word because he knows that that'll be an automatic block, you know, for the group anymore. And he's using this language because they had all agreed to get JT off the show because nobody liked him. And now people are waffling, and he's mad at Shat because he's not just sticking with the. With the original, but who knows, really? I mean, I'm just. I'm honestly just theorizing because nothing's happening on this show. So now JT goes to sit in the van, which is hilarious that they're like, okay, you want to leave? Well, we're not going to drive you anywhere. So he still has to be there. And Craig's like, oh, yeah, well, look, Madison says something like, well, anybody who's friends with JT can go in there, but I ain't going in there. And Craig's like, yeah, well, JT's best friend Shep is going in there. So now we're in divided vans, and Craig's calling Shep a for being nice to jt. And Taylor's like, well, JT has like, a ton of he needs to work on, and we all know that I would move in with those people for a good, solid few years before I ever say anything.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Craig's like, yeah, that's why we're trying to teach him. But there's one thing that I do not think that he would. I don't think he would talk to a woman that way. That's not the crux of the issue. Why we're even giving. Why you. Why you and Shep have his back with. This is nuts. I don't trust people that can't apologize. He didn't say sorry one time. So in the other van, JT's like, I've never felt more like a pinata in my life. That was as close to feeling Like a pinata as you could possibly be. It was like I was like a big thing stuffed with candy hanging from a tree, and people were swinging at me. What I'm trying to say is if you had a child's party, it's like, we get it. You feel like a pinata. So Shep is like, oh, you handle yourself very well. Like, no, I'm going to fly home tomorrow. Then Whitney is like, wasted. He's like. He's like, no, no, listen, don't leave. Have a sensible conversation with like, someone. Get Whitney some, like some hot coffee or something. He is wasted on this bus.

[Ben Mandelker]

Whitney's always wasted these days, slurring more than ever. Yeah, they have a sensible composition with Madison, you know, she's. She's. She's the most aggrieved Whitney. You can't yell at everybody else for show for not showing up to the workplace when you barely show up either. You've been off all day too. So JT's like, I'm done. I'm eviscerated. I've got no guts left in my body. This town will realize what it once had once it no longer has me. You shall remember my statue in the parks, but it shall never move because I have been aggrieved. All right.

[Ronnie Karam]

Vanita's like, are you mad at me? And he's. I just thought, let's just talk later.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh.

[Ronnie Karam]

So basically Whitney's like, let's go and gamble. So everyone heads off and there's like funniness in the. In the hotel, you know, getting smashed by elevator doors and things like that. And the girls are hanging out in the. In the girls suite, drinking, drinking and having fun. And Vanita, she gets into her pajamas and she slinks over to JT's room and she knocks on the door and he's like. He's like. He's like, no cameras, no cameras. And then. But she goes in anyway without the cameras. The doors shut and then there's fireworks and then we go to commercial. So I was like, okay, it's the old rope a dope where they. She goes in and then they just have a talk about everything and they try to make it look like sexy times. That's what I thought because that's what they always do.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So then the next morning, the guys room is just disgusting because it's guys, you know, and one of the sinksons is just running. We don't. We don't ever. Really.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. I was wondering what was up with that.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know.

[Ronnie Karam]

Running sink. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then Vanita had the giant. The most giant piece of food that she was eating. I was like, wow, what is this local delicacy? I couldn't figure out what it was. I was like, is that a corn cake? What is that? I. I want. It was a bagel. It was just gigantic.

[Ronnie Karam]

I was like, they have bagels in the Bahamas. It was a nor. It was very enormous. And they actually, like. They, like, sort of paused. They, like, timed the music. Like, if the music was. You know how they always have these sort of slinky sounds on Southern Charm, where it was like. And, like, on the last glink was when she finally took her bite, she was, like, slowly bringing the bagel up to her mouth. It's like a glink. I hope it was a good bagel.

[Ben Mandelker]

I really like when they get into their Peter and the Wolf mode on this show with the music and the orchestra and stuff, because they've decided that JT Is like, the bassoon or whatever.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Because everyone else is like a high. Like, and then it gets to him, and it's just like, every time they. They got to him, they just cut to the bassoon.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, man. To be the bassoon. Yeah. So Vanita, the producer, asked her, like, what happened? So I'm expecting her to say, well, we talked, and I tried to convince him to stay, but he was really sad. No, said she. She goes, well, I literally straddled this man and said, I don't act like you don't want this as bad as I do. Oh, God. It's like, Vanita Venita. This is. That's actually poor form because he, like, he did say he has a girlfriend. You shouldn't do that. Like, I know it's ultimately up to the man, but, like, come on, Vanita, you shouldn't do that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, that's not cool. And also, it was like a dinner that he just got completely, you know, eviscerated at, and he was all sad and left, and he's. He's like, need somebody to talk to. And she straddles him, and it's like, give it to me. I mean, geez. So he's like, well, I think I made it pretty clear that when I removed her not once, but twice off of me in my bed in the Bahamas because I have a girlfriend. But he's also like, can you believe it? A hot girl straddled me, like, what the hell? I know. Yeah. And she's like, for him to come out and say, like, listen, the feelings that I have the feelings that you have for me are the same and I have for you. You, but stronger. So then what is he doing too, These two?

[Ronnie Karam]

I can't. Yeah, I mean, he shouldn't. He was. No, he was wrong when he was initially being flirty with her, and he was wrong, like, that whole dinner and everything. He ate the whole meal and was being flirty. And then it's like, by the way, I have a girlfriend. Like, so he sucks for that. I'm just saying, Vanita, like, you know, like, don't waste your pretty. Don't waste your pretty on jt. It's time to move on. You're like, a gorgeous catch. You're probably one of the biggest catches on this show. Like, you could do better than jt. Like, sort of throwing herself at JT when he's already in a relationship. Come on, Vinita.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but this show. This show is famous for. You have to fuck somebody to be on this show. I mean, look at Whitney. Like, honestly, like, he's definitely the gate. The gatekeeper of that. Look how many people have had to date Whitney to get on the show or step or one of them. You have to do it to get on this show. I mean, it was like last year, it was Olivia that when she was pretending to date people just because she wanted to be on the show, you know? And I guess that's what. What they consider the show to be about. It's kind of like below deck, where they're like, well, somebody try and this season, or we don't have a show, you know?

[Ronnie Karam]

Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

But it's just like. It's just. It's kind of ruining the show because it's happening now with almost every couple that's on it, you know, and it's just, like, cringy to watch. So. But I didn't understand why she said for him to come out and just say, listen, the feelings that I have. The feelings you have for me are the same I have for you, but stronger. So he's saying. So he is kind of still leading her on, right? I don't know.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, if he says, the feelings you have for me are the same I have for you, but stronger. It's like, we have feelings, but you have stronger feelings for me. That's his way of saying, I think you like me more than I like you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So he's like, I mean, look, you're down, you're out, you're sad, and you got a beautiful girl throwing herself at you. And you're like, no, please, I can't I can't. I mean, I'm just trying my best here, guys.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wow. So Vanita's like, yeah. He was just like, I can't do that. I'm supposed to be in a relationship. I'm supposed to be dating this girl. I can't. And that was my cue of, like. Like, got it. I'm like, girl, your cue was. Came a few episodes ago.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, you're Q. And the weirdest part is she's telling this like it's the cutest romantic story. She's, like, flipping her ponytail around and, like, smiling in the diary room. It's weird. I don't like it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Vanita's had just a series of swings and misses this season, from almost drowning to trying to land J.T. h. Poor girl. So now Madison tells Sally that J.T. wants to meet up. So Madison's like, like, well, I know I've gone super hard on JT for this, but we were friends at one point. You know, I did lower my standards at one point in my life and let him in. So Sally's like, so you're going to call, you're going to look, meet him in person. She's like, I think he's going to come by. So then meanwhile, Shep comes like, I.

[Ben Mandelker]

Ain'T going over there. He better come over here. I'm not walking over there.

[Ronnie Karam]

Commercials.

[Ben Mandelker]

Here comes one right now.

[Unknown]

At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather, it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks both recognizable and unrecognizable names about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up, they connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcast podcasts.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then we go to the guy suite, and Shep comes down just looking like and gets in bed with Craig, and he's like, I saw your calls. Thanks for looking out, but I spiraled last night Because I just want. I'm just a person who want love. It's not because I'm still the crazy alcoholic that you refused to be friends with last year After I got kicked out of Bravo Con, right? And Craig's like, well, yeah, basically, we went to a casino. Shep got kicked out of the casino, know, and he was so drunk, he couldn't stand up. And then we went to the room, and he still wasn't there, and we couldn't find him. Dun, dun, dun. Then we hit an air tag, and the air tag said, this man is too depleted of life force to locate. I'm sorry.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, basically, Craig is like, oh, my. I mean, Shep is like, yeah, well, I guess I had a rough night. I. I guess I woke up on a. On a chair by the beach. I mean, I was fine. Nothing happened. So he basically got wasted, got kicked of the casino, wound up wandering on the beach, passed out in a chair. So I guess old Shep isn't so far away, huh? So he's like, you know, two nights ago, I was completely fine, though, and I was just, like, trying to process a lot. And I think yesterday, you know, it just all hit me. So, you know when you guys were like, leave your fun phone and let's have fun, I think I took that too seriously. So it's your fault. You guys made me get wasted.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but you know what? This isn't healthy. Like, you slept on a beach chair because of her. You know, like, you don't want anything to do with that. He's like, no.

[Ronnie Karam]

What?

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, it's just Craig, you have this stance. You're like, this is what's right, you know, sleeping in a bed, not getting kicked out of casinos. I mean, who even are you? How do you live like that? He's like, but, like, everything you're going through, like, is her fault. Because, like, if three weeks ago, you planned this trips, those feelings were the same, like, we'd be one big happy. No, it's not her fault. Oh, my God, this weirdo. So she's like, I'm just so in love. I know nothing about her, but, gosh, I love her. She has lips. Lips with freckles.

[Ronnie Karam]

Have you talked to her today? No. If she comes to the boat, then great. Well, that's what it is. Like, you get to spend another day with her. Another day. And you get to see what it looks like at the end of the day, right? So meanwhile, JT goes over to Madison. Madison's room, and he has a little red box As a. As a gift. And he's like, hey, can you give me another pillow? Sorry, I got a bad back. Diabetes. Bad back. I'm getting old. Hey, so thanks. Thanks for giving me that pillow. It was nice. Thing you ever done for me. Don't get used to it. Yeah, well, it's the little things. Anyway, I want to give you this. This to give to Whitney. It's a very nice box of cigars, but I got this from his patrician Whitney after Craig made that bullshit up. But, you know, you could smoke them if you want.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'll keep him liked. So he's like, okay. And you can also get decide who gets to smoke them. All right, well, thank you. Thank you for taking in this time, because I didn't want to get it into the table, but, you know, I didn't want to have those conversations at dinner. But thank you for volunteering to talk to me. Just where do I start to dive in? I'm sorry I brought up that FaceTime call that you actually made to Craig, and that was a huge mistake, you know, and she doesn't deny that the phone call happened. And he's like, it wasn't a hit job on you. And she said, well, that hurt my feelings. And he's like, okay, wait, hurt your feelings? Because didn't you hear what I said? You heard what Craig said that I said? I mean, this was a conversation for us, and, you know, now we're stuck in Craig's telephone game of and it's up, and I want our relationship back, okay? And she's like, I'm just. I just want this friendship to work, okay? I chose the best of two pairs of shoes last night, and I was a visceral. Eviscerated to my core.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Madison's like, well, I'm glad that he got to say his piece, but we can move on. I am done with this. He's like, well, thank you for your audience, and I hope you guys have a great day on the boat, because I shall not be there. And she's like, you're not gonna show up? No, I'm gonna go back and take care of some business. My mama sent me a rug, so I'm gonna put it somewhere. All right, well, I don't think you need to carry it out. I mean, part of. Part of being in this group is dealing with being hazed, and you're gonna have to get on that boat while everyone yells at you. You gotta do that. She's like, no, I can't negotiate the truth with Craig. No.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So he's gonna wuss out, which kind of just destroys the whole season, basically, because there's, like, literally nothing. So then the girls are talking about it, and they're like, what happened? She's like, nothing, really. I mean, he got some big fat cigarettes to smoke, I guess, like. Well, I guess he's just trying to be civil. She goes, I don't know. I'm forward. I can only imagine how the audience feels. And they're like, I almost feel bad for him. So now Craig, the relationship expert gets his completely uninterested girlfriend on the phone to lecture Chef.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, hey. Hey, Chicken. Wait. Wow, you guys look like you have a really sick place. Thanks. It is sick, but I need your help talking to Chef. So Shep is like, oh, oh, okay. Oh. Oh, yeah. What do you guys have to say? Well, I told Paige a little bit about last night, and Paige is just, like, laughing because she's just like, this is so. This man is so pathetic, all of them. And so Shep is like, well, it's just been hard, Paige. I'm sure you can understand. Well, the only thing I will say is, especially with long distance, if it's already shaky, it's only going to get shakier. Like, if you think. If you're in long distance and you think, like, one person, if it's been, like, two years and they still haven't moved to your, like, bucolic little suburb in the city south, then, like, you have to get the point and, like, realize it's just, like, never going to work out, you know? Do you understand?

[Ben Mandelker]

Not breaking up with you now. She's just waiting till between seasons, so she's not haste as hard on Twitter. So that's what you need to understand. Well, here's what she's. He's hung up on because he's like, how could someone tell me that they love me three weeks ago and now act like this? I don't even believe that she said she loves you. Unless it was, like, in that very casual, like, yeah, sure, love. Yeah, I love being with you or something that he took at the wrong. Because we already saw Shep bullshitting last week where he's like, she. I was going to miss you. Cutter going, well, I don't know if I'm going to miss you or whatever she said.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, that's the thing, Shep. Shep has not been a good character witness either. I mean, I do believe him with the Craig thing because we have cameras to back it up. But Like, a Shep literally made up some sort of fictional thing that Sienna said, I love you. So I don't know what's up with that, but it's been, like, three weeks ago, as far as I can tell, was when she went off to Africa and came back and, like, didn't tell. Speak to him the entire time and basically ghosted him after that entire experience. So, like, it's been pretty obvious for a while now that Sienna's not so into Shap. If anything, it seems like Sienna, after her trip to Charleston earlier in the season, that's when she started to pull. Pull away. She was like, oh, oh, no. I don't like this at all. Yeah, this is not gonna be for me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, he's full on pretending I'm his girlfriend without even telling me. It's weirdo.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Paige is like, okay, listen, things change. If she's not texting you back, she's not trying to sleep with you every night. She's not trying to hang out. She's not trying to introduce you to her family. Family. Now listen to this. Craig, you too. I don't like you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Craig's like, she doesn't.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like.

[Ronnie Karam]

I can't. I can't believe Paige just called Ms. Patricia A.

[Ben Mandelker]

He'll try it. Watch next season. He'll be like, oh, my God, Ms. Patricia. I should have known Paige was wrong when she called you the C word when I never. Randy's getting extra lashings for another month.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Paige is like, look, I'm gonna tell you something that my mom used to tell me all through my 20s. You're going to meet a man named Craig one day, and you'll be able to do better. So ride that wave while you can and then move on from the pillow, man. Also, if people like you, you'll know it. She doesn't like you. Am I done here? Do I get paid for this?

[Ronnie Karam]

Letters. Let her go. Okay. Chicken out. So now Molly is getting into a dress, and Ryan's hanging out with the girls, and everyone's getting ready for the boat, and Shep, they're. They're heading to the boat. And Shep gets a message from Sienna that, surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise. Hey, you're not sure I'm gonna be able to make it to the boat. I'm running late. Sorry. So, like, we all knew this text was going to come. And although I have to say, at this point, I am kind of feeling like, Sienna, you gotta cut the cord here. That you are kind of like, we all. Everyone can See, everyone at home, everyone in this group can all see you're not. You don't like this guy, and we support you not liking Chef. But now at this point, it's time to be like, just. Just say, hey, I'm not interested in doing this anymore. Which I guess is what's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but she tried to have the conversation with Shep, and he refused until they were on camera. And so now she knows what he's trying to do, which is make her look like a villain and him look like some sweet, innocent little boy. So I think she's just trying to avoid it until he's back home and she can dump him properly, you know?

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, what is.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's like, even though it's completely obvious what he's doing, it's worked. I mean, people on the Internet are like, that girl for hurting poor sh.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, well, you know, I'm still on Sienna's side, but I kind of feel like you should just do, like, a proper ghosting. So, like, don't commit to going on the boat ride that, you know, you're not going to go on. Just say, I'm busy this week. I'm washing my hair. So he's like, no.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, it would be nice to pull a real ghost where you're like, what do you mean I'm on the boat? What do you mean you don't see me? I'm right here. Just I'm holding your hand.

[Ronnie Karam]

Been here all this time. So he's like, wait, well, what's her eta? We'll hold the boat. We'll stop everything. We won't go on the seas. And she's like, basically like, no, I'm. I'm gonna be really. I'll see you tonight. I'll see you tonight. I'm minimizing my Shep time. Please go. Stop texting me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So everybody else has decided to just leave Shep because he's pathetic. Well, mostly Craig. He's like, we're leaving, leaving. So they go to the boat instead, and Shep is like, what a predicament. And then they're deciding that they're just gonna leave him because they're sick of listening to him. And now Whitney is also not coming because, you know when in this cast comes to work whenever they don't want to, and they're like, yeah, he's a vampire. So Matt. Molly's like, I mean, I just. I don't even get it with jt. Like, I'm trying to be nice and just be like, I'm gonna Try and understand. But like, he knew what he had to do and he can't even apologize. So whatever. He can right off.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So Santa replies and says, I don't know how late I'm gonna be. Why don't I just see you later at dinner? So then Shep tries to call her and of course she doesn't take the call. Like, I mean, I'm cringe. Everything about this makes me cringe for Shab. Like, like, oh my God, she doesn't like you. Why are you now calling her on top of that? Why are you being so clingy and needy? Stop it. It. So everyone's on the. Everyone's getting on the boat. And Craig is like, he's in his 40s. He'll make his own decisions. All we can do is lend our opinion of it. And if he takes it, he takes it.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Taylor's like, yeah, at the end of the day, you got nothing for nothing. He's not gonna. He's gonna do what he wants to do. And I can tell you this much, what he's gonna want to do is not own his emotions. Oh, what are you talking about? He's over there like rolling around in the them, you know?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like trying to get anybody to believe that he has them in the first place. So Shep just writes her back, gors, I really wanted you to come with us. We could have done the Titanic thing on the front of the boat. Except you would have been the one to drown and die instead. Cuz I'm rich. But still. Whatever. I guess I'll see you back at the hotel. So he. He walks to the boat, like as slowly as possible. And by the way, he's in a bright pink matching shorts romper.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Makes this whole. And he just much funnier.

[Ronnie Karam]

And he just is like. His sad walk is so sad. He's like, like that. Those hands are flapping more, swinging really sadly. And his head is hung down and everyone's watching him approach the. The boat. And everyone's like a shop. Oh, look at the wall. Our little walk, you know. And so he comes on board and they're like, like, oh sh. And they're hugging him. He's like, go.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Sally's like, I mean, I feel bad looking at him because, you know, he does look so sad. But he'll get over it.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's life. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

I might have suggested the first step. Find a parking space at Great American.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's right. So Mass is like, hey, Molly, go kiss him. Go kiss and make him feel better. So Craig's like, look, I want us all to have fun, because that's what you do when you break up. Although I'm not sure you really broke up because you had to be together in the first place, but you know what I'm saying.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And then there's a record scratch because Taylor's like, gross. She turns around, she doesn't like that. So then Austin goes to talk to Shep, and, you know, they're trying to make him happy, but it's not really working, cuz, you know, Shep's just so, so sad. So then Sally checks in. Then they get in the water, and Chef's like, I wanted her to come, but she's running late. So I just texted her and said, meet me back at the hotel. I mean, but this. This. This was her idea. This whole trip. This whole trip was her. It just makes no sense.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So Matt's like, oh, good God, could someone get him and drink? So then. So Shep is like, I'm just gonna have fun. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna have fun. So they get to, like, they're gonna go to rose aisle. So Shep is like, my island. No man is an island unless they have one. So they. There. They go there, and there's like, there's funny party times on. On the boat and everything. And then, you know, they tell if you have. If your hand is on the pole for three seconds. You h. The rule of the boat is you have to do a dance on the pole. So it's all kind of, like, fun stuff. And they're all like, yeah, we need to get chef drunk because he's spiraling right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So then Molly's talking to Shep leader, and she's like, yeah, I haven't had sex in over a year. It's like, been nuts. Like, I don't even know what it's like to have sex as an obese person yet. And he's like, you've been so. Like. I mean, I masturbate, you know, so there's that. So that's fine, you know, I mean, I'm not, you know, I got a vibrator. And he's like, wow. Well, I didn't want to say it. She's like, I mean, come on. I'm not a nun. Okay? So Austin saying, well, I don't know, you know, like, I don't know what the situation is, but, you know, nobody can make you get over someone except for yourself. You know, your Friends can be like, come on, man. But, you know, until you stop feeling like this is insane, what are you gonna do? You know? So then Vanita, Taylor and Rodrigo are talking, and Vanita's like, yeah, you know, JT really hurt my feelings because he wouldn't come on the boat. And I said, do it for me, but then he wouldn't come on the boat for me. And I was like, wow, that really hurts. Okay, you're another one. You two. Why don't you just date Shep?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

You're both pathetic at this point. Like, stop. The man said he doesn't want you. Stop texting him.

[Ronnie Karam]

Rodrigo's like, plot twist. JT is with Sienna. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I'm shook. So JT's packing up all his stuff, and then we go back to Vanita, and she's like, jt is my best friend, so it's hard to have everyone come at him at the table. He was like, I'm stressed. I feel like I'm getting beat up all the time. And I'm like, well, you got to make it right. Like, you're allowing everyone to beat you up right now because you're not speaking. So JT's like, well, I'm leaving the Bahamas because I see Mission Impossible right now with the friend group, and so.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, please. You're just picking that movie because he's also short.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then he's packing up, and it's the longest five minute packing scene I've ever seen. Like, well, we're paying this man, so we might as well get him due doing something. Let's watch him put his stuff into packing cubes. So we watch that for a while and then he leaves and he's like, see you later, NASA. And he's out. So then back to the boat. Austin's like, hey, Sally, show him your tits. There's a boat over there. Why is everybody telling Sally to do that all the time? Poor Sally.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, Sal. So then Austin's like, hey, Molly. Molly, do you think Shep's tongue would taste like sandpaper? And she's like, do I think his tongue would taste like sandpaper? Well, why don't you try it out? He's like, harsh. It's been a year. It's been a year. I'm doing her a favor. So Molly's like, I feel like I'm at a middle school dance. And everybody's like, go dance with him. But then I'm dancing with a tuba. Oh, flashbacks. So then they have lay hug and it's like cute and everything.

[Ben Mandelker]

And I'm not buying anything either. I'm not buying that Molly likes Shep or that Shep's even considering this. It's kind of bad. It's kind of bad improv at this point. So then Craig is doing some ocean euphemisms. He's like, hey, you know what you what I always say? Go where the tide is.

[Ronnie Karam]

They're like, yes, well done, Craig. So Madison and Shep sit on a boat together on. Because they're on the island and there's like a hangout. And Shep is like, gosh, Sienna and I, we went around that point and she was like, I want you to buy me that house and mask. Shut up. He's like, yeah, it was like a $10 million house. And I was like, I don't know. Hey, do you feel like maybe you're not rich enough for her? And Shep goes, yeah, maybe I do, Mike. Wait a second. What is this narrative like? No, she's not a gold digger. She has tv. She sees who you are. She talked with you. She got tuna salad spat on her face when you talked with your mouth open. Okay? Like, it doesn't have to do with money.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, that's what happens when you don't give guy, a guy like Shep what you want. He immediately starts calling you a gold digging slut. That's what happens. That's. That's classy change step for you guys.

[Ronnie Karam]

But then, to be fair, he goes, but then again, who am I? Who the fuck am I? I'm a fucking wild son of a bitch. Sort of a disaster zone. Yes, that's probably the stronger point then that. Sienna wants someone who can afford more than a $10 million.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but he doesn't really believe that. He just wants some pretty girl to tell him he's worth something, you know, which Madison doesn't, which I really like at first, at least. She's like, yeah, but you are sort of miss, how am I a good idea for anybody? I mean, who wants to wake up to somebody who's got a mailbox full of their daddy's money? No one, probably. Who wants someone handsome and set for life? No one. I've read Shakespeare.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm realizing that in the past, I was a wild man. But you know what, though? Last night counts as the past and today is the now. So I'm feeling a bit inadequate because a lot of girls are seeing, seeking a stable life, and I'm like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. So I don't know.

[Ben Mandelker]

Isn't that ride closed?

[Ronnie Karam]

No, it's not. I recently went on it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Really?

[Ronnie Karam]

I went on it with a cold brew. Yeah. Which is. Was a fun experience. I took an illegal cold brew you weren't supposed to have in a cold brew. But I was like, I told. I was told the person I was getting out. I was like, what do I do with this cold brew? And he was like, just, just hold it low so the cameras don't see you. So I had a. Just take it.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's Mr. Toads. Okay.

[Ronnie Karam]

I was like, if I'm going to hell, I'm going to hell with a cold brew. That's what happens on that ride. You go to hell. That's the whole point of the ride.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Madison's like, you deserve to be much loved as much as you're giving her. So you know, fakely. And he's like, oh, thank you so much.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wow.

[Ben Mandelker]

She goes, everybody deserves to be someone with loves someone. Everybody deserves to be with someone that loves him. Even so she's trying to be sad for him, but it's Shep, you know, and so she's like, whoever thought I'd be sitting here talking to you off ledge? He's like, oh, she's so angry about it. Oh, thank God we know now she's just a gold digging and I can move on with my life. That's my boy.

[Ronnie Karam]

And that was the episode. So next week it looks like Sienna is finally gonna tell him. I don't want to be in a relationship with you. We never were in love. We weren't even boyfriend, girlfriend, stop. Goodbye. Get out of my face. I'm looking forward to it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I hope they have another six episodes this season. They're really making it happen. All right, everybody, thanks so much for being here for Watch what crappins. We will be back later today with a traders recap and we'll be back next week with just all sorts of stuff. So check out our tour schedule over at watch what crappens.com and we'll talk to you next time. Love you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Bye.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bye.

[Ronnie Karam]

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