#2746 RHOP S9E20 Reunion 3: Rent a Poor

Summary

Watch What Crappens Podcast Summary: Episode #2746 "RHOP S9E20 Reunion 3: Rent a Poor"

In Episode #2746 of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve deep into the tumultuous Reunion 3 of The Real Housewives of Potomac (RHOP) Season 9, titled "Rent a Poor." Released on March 3, 2025, this episode dissects the dramatic revelations, interpersonal conflicts, and the fallout from Karen Huger's legal woes.

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1. Overview of Reunion Dynamics

The episode begins with the hosts expressing excitement about kicking off March and introducing the significant developments from the reunion. They highlight Karen Huger's impending absence from the show due to her legal troubles, setting the stage for a critical analysis of the reunion's events.

Ronnie Karam [04:53]: "Another huge announcement. Potomac is ending today and it's going to be the last time we see this exact group of women for a long time because Karen's going to be in prison..."

---

2. Karen Huger's Legal Troubles

A central focus of the reunion revolves around Karen Huger's conviction for drunk driving, which has led to her imprisonment. The hosts examine how her absence impacts the group dynamics and her standing within the show.

Ben Mandelker [05:14]: "They didn't really need her for the rest of the reunion. It was kind of amusing to me how little of an impact it made that she walked out..."

Ronnie and Ben discuss the minimal reaction from other cast members upon Karen's departure, suggesting a diminished role and credibility for her character within RHOP.

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3. Tj's Accusations Against Stacy

A significant point of contention arises when Tj accuses Stacy of paying him to participate in the show, casting doubts on her authenticity and intentions.

Ronnie Karam [08:29]: "He really did say that. I was shocked that this was the revelation..."

Ben Mandelker [08:58]: "I think TJ has more of a motivation to lie than Stacy does. I think TJ was humiliated on TV because everyone made fun of him..."

The hosts debate the credibility of Tj's claims, with Ben leaning towards skepticism about Tj's honesty, while Ronnie aligns with doubting his statements.

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4. Group Reactions and Confrontations

The reunion features intense confrontations among the housewives, especially regarding Stacy's relationship with Tj and Karen's legal issues. The hosts analyze these interactions, highlighting themes of loyalty, betrayal, and accountability.

Ronnie Karam [14:22]: "And your role on this show was just as successful as your acting career. You failed, okay? You. You. One season wonder."

Ben Mandelker [16:36]: "She doesn't want to commit to saying, I never paid him. She just wants to commit to saying, he would never say that..."

Discussions revolve around the authenticity of Stacy's character and her defense against Tj's allegations, questioning whether her explanations hold water or are merely defensive posturing.

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5. Karen's Public Statement and Accountability

Karen Huger's attempted public statement takes center stage as she tries to address her DUI incident. The hosts critique her approach, noting inconsistencies and a lack of genuine accountability.

Ben Mandelker [62:33]: "She's like, what happened to me? I don't want that to ever happen to me again. I'm just gonna say it was the meds..."

Ronnie Karam [64:55]: "She opens up about taking antidepressants but tries to shift blame from her actions to the medication..."

The hosts express frustration with Karen's evasive tactics, emphasizing the importance of taking full responsibility for one's actions, especially in the public eye.

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6. The Aftermath and Future Implications

As the reunion concludes, Ben and Ronnie reflect on the season's overall impact, Karen's continued absence, and the unresolved tensions that may carry into future seasons.

Ben Mandelker [75:03]: "I was like, oh, so she's trying to accept responsibility. They're like, oh, please..."

Ronnie Karam [73:28]: "So Stacy, you had a great season until it ended. So where are you gonna go here with Tj? She's like, I don't go anywhere with Tj..."

They ponder the show's direction post-reunion, considering how the events might shape the narrative and relationships in upcoming seasons.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Despite the chaos and confrontations, the hosts commend the season for its entertainment value and anticipate continued excitement in future episodes.

Ben Mandelker [76:03]: "I was done. I'm honestly, I'm happy with this season..."

Ronnie Karam [76:34]: "This was so funny to me. And he was like, but it looked like she was trying to accept responsibility..."

Ben and Ronnie conclude with a mix of amusement and anticipation, eager to cover next week's Atlanta episodes and continue their humorous yet insightful commentary on Bravo's reality offerings.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ronnie Karam [04:53]: "Potomac is ending today and it's going to be the last time we see this exact group of women for a long time because Karen's going to be in prison..."

• Ben Mandelker [05:14]: "They didn't really need her for the rest of the reunion. It was kind of amusing to me how little of an impact it made that she walked out..."

• Ronnie Karam [08:29]: "He really did say that. I was shocked that this was the revelation..."

• Ben Mandelker [08:58]: "I think TJ has more of a motivation to lie than Stacy does. I think TJ was humiliated on TV because everyone made fun of him..."

• Ronnie Karam [14:22]: "And your role on this show was just as successful as your acting career. You failed, okay? You. You. One season wonder."

• Ben Mandelker [16:36]: "She doesn't want to commit to saying, I never paid him. She just wants to commit to saying, he would never say that..."

• Ben Mandelker [62:33]: "She's like, what happened to me? I don't want that to ever happen to me again. I'm just gonna say it was the meds..."

• Ronnie Karam [64:55]: "She opens up about taking antidepressants but tries to shift blame from her actions to the medication..."

• Ben Mandelker [75:03]: "I was like, oh, so she's trying to accept responsibility. They're like, oh, please..."

• Ronnie Karam [73:28]: "So Stacy, you had a great season until it ended. So where are you gonna go here with Tj? She's like, I don't go anywhere with Tj..."

---

Watch What Crappens continues to offer its trademark blend of humor and sharp critique, providing listeners with an engaging breakdown of Bravo's reality TV drama. For more in-depth analysis and exclusive content, consider supporting the podcast on Patreon.

Transcript

[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Karam]

Cannot wait about severance to start again. So yeah, I'll be doing the same thing, watching it all through Prime. It's convenient to not have to leave the prime video app to switch between all of these subscriptions.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Karam]

That happens? Well, hello and welcome to Watch what Crappens, a podcast about all the crap we love to talk about. Unyield bravs. I'm Ronnie. That's Ben Mandelker over there. Hello, you handsome little tefl.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hi, you handsome devil yourself. How are you?

[Ronnie Karam]

Good. What's going on with you today?

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, starting a brand brand new week, fresh start and just, you know, it's our first episode of March, so that's exciting. What's going on with you?

[Ronnie Karam]

Big things happening. Big.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Things good. I'm proud to announce I finally finished all four books in the Lonesome Dove series. Okay. I know nobody cares about that, but I'm so glad to be done with that because that was a lot of scalping. Okay. It's a lot of skinning people alive and I feel good that it's. It's done. I'm on to happier things. I'm reading. The next thing I want to read is about hummingbirds. I just need something happy. We're going on tour. Woohoo. We leave for March. This is an exciting time. You ready? Here's your cities. Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Toronto, Charlotte, Atlanta, Washington and Philly. Following that, we're going to be going to Boston, Detroit, Chicago, Austin, Dallas and Las Vegas. Get your tickets over at watch what crappens.com. you can also find links for our our Patreon over there and that's where we have video recaps like this one. Hi. And our bonus episodes. Right now we are covering tray tours over there. So go check us out on Patreon. And that's that. So another huge announcement. Potomac is ending today and it's going to be the last time we see this exact group of women for a long time because Karen's going to be in Priz and who knows what's happening with Mia. I don't know. What do you think's gonna happen with her?

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, I think walking out of a reunion is probably frowned upon. It's a, it's definitely a diva move. I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure she'll be back, but she will probably receive a reprimand. She'll probably, maybe she'll be on promotion, promotion, probation, Maybe she'll get demoted to friend up. I'm not sure. I don't know. What do you think?

[Ronnie Karam]

I think there was a good chance of her being fired if Karen hadn't been sent to prison, I think. But, yeah, I think they're gonna get rid of her now.

[Ben Mandelker]

And the thing is, like, they were. They didn't really need her for the rest of the reunion. It was kind of amusing to me how. How little of an impact it made that she walked out. Like, no one seemed to care. No one was shocked when it was announced that she was gone. It was met with a shrug. So I think that says volumes about your place on the show.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, you know, she only had first seat.

[Ben Mandelker]

She only had first seat, by the way, because Karen went to, like, wasn't. Went to rehab. Like, there's no way that Mia's getting the first seat anyway. So if she's thinking that she's made it in some way that she's now a star of the show because she has that, she's sorely mistaken.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, you got to show up to work, especially when you're missing somebody. You can't just all not show up to work. What is this Southern charm where half the cast is just like, I'm tired, and they leave. So she leaves crying, and I'd be crying too. She might just be leaving because that dress is so tight. I mean, my God, that thing looks painful. What women have to go through. I mean, I'm considered dressed to the ninth today because I have a shirt with a collar on it. Okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I'm. I'm wearing a corset. You know, it's a T shirt corset. It's a. It's a new invention I created.

[Ronnie Karam]

Now I could pull a Mia and just push my moobs up, and I think that that kind of would give me that. But the guy couldn't sit like that all day. It's just too much moo.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So she's in her dress room being like, oh, you guys get me out. So then back on the set, Andy has basically alerted them that the. The husbands will not be coming out on the set, because the only husbands who've shown up are Eddie and Greg. Eddie has. There's no. There's no need for Eddie on the reunion at this point, as it turns out. And then no one cares about Greg, so they're clearly Nick's the husband thing, which is funny, because Greg was bitching and moaning last episode that he could have been gallivanting around Manhattan and said, he had to show up at NBC to shoot a reunion. God forbid.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And Kieran is like, oh, good. Greg can go home. Oh, my gosh. I'm gonna. I'm about to get wore out the way I dragged Greg up in here. Well, Greg's the one who claims he doesn't want to be on tv, so you just did him a favor, not going to listen to Greg complain about it, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I'm not so.

[Ronnie Karam]

And he's like, well, Stacy, I know you didn't want TJ to come today, and we had invited TJ to come. I really wanted to ask him this very important question. Did you get new boobs?

[Ben Mandelker]

DJ Can I feel? Yeah. And Stacy's like, yes, Paul, because we're no longer together. And Wendy's like, are you sure? Like, yes, I didn't want him to come. Well, Eddie is here. And Eddie, as you mentioned earlier, Eddie and TJ talk. And Eddie actually FaceTimed with TJ to see why he's not here. And TJ let Eddie know that you actually paid him to be your love interest on this season. And TJ also told Eddie that you told him not to come. And TJ also said, run him his money because the money is not adding up. And TJ also said, look for him on this week's episode of the Pit. In the background, the nurse that's waving at the camera.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So he really did say that. I was shocked that this was the revelation. I. I'm shocked that I was shocked because everybody has been saying online that this is going to be the revelation. But I. I was surprised that it was actually that I thought they were going to kind of miss out in the end and be like, oh, TJ says he's got a big wiener. You know, and that was going to be the big thing. But apparently, yeah, he's accusing her of paying him, which. Tj, you're an under five. If someone is paying you, keep your mouth shut and keep getting the money. I don't believe. DJ what do you think?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Gosh, it's hard. First of all, I thought it was going to be a new. The birth of a new controversy. I did not think we were going to go back to Kenya and Walter, but we did, and it's fine. Tj, I don't know. Like, I don't believe anything TJ says. I. I think it's. I think TJ has more of a motivation to lie than. Than Stacy does. I think TJ was humiliated on TV because everyone made fun of him. He looked like an idiot. He sounded like an idiot. He was an idiot. And I think then he. I think that TJ also was riding the Stacy train to get onto tv. And then when she said, you know what? I don't think I like you anymore because, like, I think you're shitty. He realizes his path to fame has been destroyed. And the narcissist that he is, because we all know that he's a narcissist. We all. We can see this, right? He is going to. Now he's going to retaliate. And I think that actually is, like, it's totally viable that he's lying. And he's just saying, you know, he's going to say this to cover. To. To clean up his reputation. Like, everything you saw was fake. I was paid. I was paid to do all this. I'm actually a different kind of guy. Well, congratulations. You're basically a whore.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, exactly. That was kind of.

[Ben Mandelker]

By the way. I don't.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm like, who brags about being paid to pretend they're somebody's boyfriend? Like, it just makes you even more terrible. And I am with you. I believe that he is not believable. I don't. I'm not going to believe tj. TJ was a piece of shit this whole season. And it makes. And I'm glad that Stacy makes the point later of like, how are you going to say that that guy's a piece of shit the whole time, but now that he says one thing, you all believe him. Like, you're all going to believe him over me. And I agree with that. I think TJ's a piece of. And I'm not going to start believing him now. I think that he got really upset with looking stupid on tv, but that's his own fault. Nobody edited that. He. And even if they did, she's not an editor. She's a person on the show who he is treating like. So that guy.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he was. He also shows he's a bad business partner because he now has. He's complained because, by the way, the season's not over. And I feel like if there was an arrangement, then he should have. Like, I'm sure the arrangement. I don't know. Like, I'm gonna defend her even if he. She did pay him. What I would not be surprised at is if he being the. That he is. Is like, well, I'll come on the show if she says, I would love it if you come on the show with me. And he's like, well, but you're getting you're getting paid to do this. And, like, I'm getting nothing for this. And she says, fine, I'll give you a cut or something like that. Like, I'll throw you something as compensation for your time and your energy, not like, hey, let's. I'm going to hire you to be my boyfriend. It's like, I'll. I'll kick something back at you because you are taking time out of your day. You're not doing auditions. You're. You're doing. You're shooting a scene with me. I mean, she shouldn't have to do that, but I would not be surprised if she did.

[Ronnie Karam]

Why? She was fair and stuff, right?

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is why she was hesitant that. To sort of, like, call him up and. Because she's like, I don't know how he's gonna ding me. Because, like, there's a. There are some gray areas. I would not be surprised if that were the case. But it doesn' matter, because even if she does fully pay him, if she has paid him, I'm gonna defend her, because if she did, if she has been paying him, I think that's great, because I. I love that Stacy is playing the role of this woman who is easily clutching her. Her pearls, but then at the same time is doing something ridiculous and shady. I love that. I love that in my Real Housewives.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, she was really ready for reality tv. If she's gonna just immediately pay somebody her first season, that's crazy. But here's the question. This leads me to. Whatever happened to hipaa? I mean, Winter Whore is supposed to go tell everybody that they hoard with you. I mean, whore hipaa, we need it, and we need it in law. I don't know. I mean, I know whoring is illegal, but it shouldn't be. First of all, that's a completely legitimate job. I'd do it if I could. If my boobs stood to attention, I'd be whoring out there right now instead of talking about whoring. But whatever happened to Horror Hippo? I don't like this. And we. We had the same thing. And this is not a whore, but this is stripper hipaa. Stripper hipaa. On that Salt Lake City show when that lady was like, oh, you know how all my sis. You know how I have five sisters and they're all strippers at this club? Yeah, I know none of you watched it, so I'll explain it. So this lady comes and she's like, well, that Mormon comes to the strip club, and my sister has all the receipts to prove. What kind of stripper are you? You got your money. Keep your mouth shut. I mean, this is ridiculous. I don't like it. I feel like whenever we take money for stuff like that, we should be quiet. There should be, you know, the Hippocratic. The Di. Cratic oath.

[Ben Mandelker]

Take that now. At first, I was thinking to myself, okay, T.J. well, the reunion has just aired. Are you going to show the receipts? If this happened, where are the receipts? But knowing him, he's probably trying to pedal it into an article for us or people, because that's just what he's. That's. That's what people like him are like. But, yeah, you. You are complicit in this, sir. If she paid you, you accepted the payment as well. Like, just know that you can. You can get mad at her being like, oh, she begged me to be on the show. You accepted the position, and you accepted the position because you probably had some sort of friendship with her or whatever. And obviously, you were shitty because you. If you did have a friendship with her, that's shitty that you accepted payment from her to be on her show instead of helping her out.

[Ronnie Karam]

And your role on this show was just as successful as your acting career. You failed, okay? You failed. You. One season wonder. Okay? This is what happens when you give this guy more than five lines.

[Ben Mandelker]

And now he's gonna play.

[Ronnie Karam]

And.

[Ben Mandelker]

And now what he's gonna do is he's going to say, well, she should be thanking me because. Because of this, I gave her a storyline for next season. You know, he's gonna do that. He's just.

[Ronnie Karam]

Except that she's not going to use him as a story. I mean, the other ladies will, but. Well, you know, like, other ladies. Who are they to talk? You've got Giselle, who brought Jamal on, pretended she was back with him. Then she's paid at least two people. Remember that guy who was getting blowjobs in the park? And then what was the other guy? Giselle's never had a real boyfriend. I mean, who are we kidding? Ashley with Beavis or whatever? Ashley with, like. I don't believe any of these people. And what's the difference? You're using Michael for. I don't know. I didn't like it. I. I mostly like this lady, and I think she dealt with all of this very well. But I guess we're going to be talking about this for another two hours, so we should just go through it. So Karena, who's never said more than she has in the past five minutes, is like, I said this. I said this was what happened. Yeah, you and the entire Internet were saying it. You know? And so Wendy's like, well, she brought TJ on and she hired tj and she paid him some money, and she still owes him a lot of money. It's a big week for TJ's selling wiener on Broadway.

[Ben Mandelker]

You owe him back money for pretending to be a boyfriend. Stacey's like, let me say this right now. Okay? Let me say. And so she's going into, like. She's doing quiet panic. And Giselle's like, oh, so we're pretending. I absolutely do not believe anything that you're saying. T.J. would never say that. Which is sort of a funny thing. Like, it's funny that her first response is not, I never paid him. Her first response is, tj would never say that. Right. That I did think was a little strange. I don't know why that.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, because like you said, maybe she gave him money for plane tickets, and, you know, she paid for dinner. That man has no money. So, you know, she paid for a lot of stuff with tj. So she's like, well, what could be considered paying somebody to come on a show, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Exactly. She doesn't want to commit to saying, I never paid him. She just wants to commit to saying, he. He would never say that. So now, of course.

[Ronnie Karam]

But I mean, look, it's the same thing. Like, dating an actor is the same thing. And even if you're dating a successful actor, frankly, because they don't want to pay for shit either. I mean, Lisa Rinna's husband works all the time. She don't like to pay for anything. You know, I think. I think that. And that's just a random example I pulled out. But actors, like, are famous. I guess I pulled it out because of the Sutton thing. Like, he didn't pay for the Elton John Oscar party. But of course she didn't. She's an actor. And actors do not like to pay. It's like, if you're dating a podcaster, Let me tell you who's dating me. Anybody who wants to pay for my Old Navy. I'm not paying for that. If I'm dating somebody. You are getting these moves and this wiener, Okay? I mean, I need at least your Old Navy super cash.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Wendy's like, TJ said that to Eddie on FaceTime. Okay, they're going to run it, baby. They're going to run it. And Kieran was like, TJ was acting like a be an actor, and he's like, control Room, Control room, Do you have that on camera? Did that happen? Hold on. Did it happen? So Andy's like, okay, everyone, I just asked the control room Stacy if they have that on camera. And apparently it happened while we were here with Mia. She's basically like, it's gonna come. He's like, and I have a feeling they're gonna roll it in 3, 2, 1. And then they all sit there and they're like, what's happening, Andy? He's like, sorry, that was a cue for in the show. And you're watching at home.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, well, we are ready to see it and beyond. She's like, show me the tape. Show. Show me the tape. I just don't believe. Another question is, if TJ was being paid, then why was he, like, being emotionally abusive, blatantly on camera? I mean, what kind of employee is that?

[Ben Mandelker]

Because he's still an actor and he wants attention. So, like, if he is being paid, he's like, excuse me, I read my sides for today, and this was not part of the script. Okay? I'm supposed to be by your side. That's what's in the sides. All day long at this party. And you left me with Ray to talk about out, you know, Commodore 64s. So he's like, that was not cool. I wasn't prepared for that. I didn't prepare for that.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So they're all demanding that they see it. And he's like, well, the problem is the camera that has the thing in it, the film or whatever that's shooting Mia. So thirsty ass Mia. Still. She walks out of the reunion and she's still taking up too much space. She's not even here and she's taking up space. And then we cut to Mia. Emmy is like, I'm leaving. I never should have. They never should have. But I never should have put myself in a position where they could talk about my neither hood. And she's, like, running all over the room and her poor gay is following her around, just trying to undo the straps on that dress that he spent all morning shoving her into. You know, he had to sit on her like a suitcase to get her into that thing. He was just like, oh, this is how ladies get their suitcases closed. Like Cameron from Real Housewives of Dallas just, like, tying that thing.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. The fact that she was like that she was in that corset and he's sitting there trying to unknot these ties in the back, and she's just, like, walking into a different room and he's having to Follow her. I was like, this is the definition. Definition of what we gays have to go through sometimes. So meanwhile, just. This is also why they let Mia go. They're like, okay, we're gonna let Mia go so we can free up that camera and get that footage.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, well, they said they should have just told Mia, we're not following your gay around with his corset strings. Okay, you're done. We're taking the camera back.

[Ben Mandelker]

They're like, sue, come over here with an iPhone. Film Mia. Okay, we're taking the big camera back into the control room.

[Ronnie Karam]

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Give your home the refresh it needs with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. So Wendy is like, you have called this man repeatedly your best friend. He's my best friend. That's not a best friend. Your best friend is not going to lie on you. So he's telling the truth, and he says he wants his money. You're in. You're in arrears. And so Stacy's like, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, Wendy. You're in arrears. I want to see it. I want to say, you're in. You're in arrears. You're in a rear. She keeps saying, you're in arrears. You all.

[Ronnie Karam]

But also, I like that Wendy. Wendy always turns into a lawyer when she's got a point. Like, well, here's mine. Here's my evidence. You said, he's your best friend, and a best friend wouldn't lie. You're on Housewives. Best friends lie on you all the time. What are you talking about?

[Ben Mandelker]

She does that point. She also starts pointing with all five of her fingers. She goes, okay. And she, like, takes her palm and she rotates it a little bit to the right, and then she starts pointing with it. It's like a little fin. I love when she does that.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Andy's like, you want to call tj?

[Ben Mandelker]

Call tj.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, he loves this shit, you know? It's like Andy's favorite thing to happen. And she's like, I absolutely do not want to call TJ So they all start demanding it and yelling at her like, you better call tj. And she's like, why would I entertain a lie? So he's like, well, why would she say it? And he's like, everybody, hold on. I am the messy one here right now. You want to call TJ let's ask about his boob job. Come on. And Stacy's like, well, I would love to see the tape, because I'm not going to speak on something that I know is a lie.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, they're not gonna. The control room's not gonna lie to me. And Karen was like, how much did you pay? And. Okay, hold on, hold on. Control room. Is there technically a way for us to show this to her? And he's like, no, not at the moment.

[Ronnie Karam]

Later.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, great. We're gonna tease this out. Because by the way, they could have just edited this and gone right to it. But they're like, wait a second. We just realized we have our third hour here. So now they're gonna give us every each of this moment.

[Ronnie Karam]

This is literally the whole hour. So if everybody wants to hear the end, that's how it ends. It's just this for another hour. But I was cracking up the whole time. So all they really need to do. First of all, don't. Don't play to Mia's hand anymore. I think they should say, mia, we've got an old man out here waiting for a steak and a lobster. He's got a couple of hunties in his palm. And just have her come back out. Take the. Out the camera and show me the footage. Okay, stop playing to Mia. It's making me crazy. So they're still going back. It's like, oh, my God. Oh. Now we see Mia finally walking out, and she's like, how do I get out of here? How do I get out of here? And so she can't find the door. It's like watching Severance. She had to make, like, a little map. A little map on a napkin.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Wendy is like, stacy, stop while you're ahead of it. It's. That's all I'm going to say. Stop. And Giselle's like, you're. You busted. Legs wide open, honey. So Stacy's like, can I ask a question? Why on earth would I sit here and say, like, less than an hour ago, he's one of the best people that I know? And she sounds like. Because it falls in line with everything else. But I say that he's one of the best people that I know because. Because he is. And this was just completely unexpected. It just was not part of the contract that he was ever going to bring this up on camera. That's probably why she doesn't want to call him. Because it's like, if she is paying him, it's like, okay, you get X amount per episode. And if she calls him that means he gets to say, this is part of an episode.

[Ronnie Karam]

So she's like, I stand in my truth. Show me the tape. And they're like, oh, God. And Wendy just goes, the way they're gonna roll the tape on you, Stacy. Oh, the way they're gonna roll the tape. And so they're like, okay, we'll come up with another story. And they're just all badgering her about it. So Andy asks for Eddie to come out, and they all start chanting, eddie, Eddie. Eddie. Brings Eddie out. So they talk to Karen's picture, and they're like, oh, I know, Karen. You're probably missing this, right? And Kieran goes, you've been vindicated, Karen. How does that vindicate Karen? None of this vindicates Karen, Kieran. But keep trying.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, because Karen turned on Stacy in the final, like, final two episodes, so that would be the vindication. So. So Andy's like, all right, here comes Eddie. So Eddie gets first chair because they still haven't bothered to move Wendy and Stacy and Jacqueline down the sofas. There's been a gap this whole time. So Eddie gets first chair, and everyone's like, eddie, yay. He's like, all right, Eddie, come have a seat. He's like, whoa, wow. Why am I here? He's like, eddie, have a seat. You seem certainly happy.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Wendy's like, eddie is the first husband in history to get first chair. And he's like, no, actually, no, he's not, but nice try. Okay, sit down, Evie. Evie. Eddie. And so they ask him about this, and he's like, well, he said he wasn't invited. And he said he's never going to be a Stacy again because someone owes his money. And Stacy's like, who? Who? Who owes him money?

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like.

[Ronnie Karam]

You. And she's like, I don't believe it. He's like, yeah, well, he said that she paid him to be here. He said she paid him to be on the reunion or the show. Let's get to. Specifically, because we're going to make two separate phone calls about this later. And he's like, no, I didn't get that level of detail. But she said. He said she paid him.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Stacy's like, I pay. I pay him to be my best friend. And Stacey's like, I. And I owe him money. That's what TJ Said to you? He's like, yeah. And in. In a nutshell, basically. And Jacqueline goes, well, that's not very Christian.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like, okay, Jacqueline.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is true, though, because TJ Is, like, purportedly this super Christian. And look, if he's being paid to play a character, then maybe he's not very Christian, but it seems like he is being very Christian. And so that's. That is not very Christian. Like.

[Ronnie Karam]

But I took this as Jacqueline telling her that's not very Christian. Like, I think she was saying it to what's her buns. You know who I mean? Stacy. I think she was saying, that's not very Christian. Like, because Giselle's like, speak on that. Speak on that, Jacqueline. And so Eddie's like, well, I called him because we just wanted to know where he was. It wasn't anything messy at all, you know, which is why we were waiting for the cameras to be there in the men's dressing room when we called him to get this all on camera. Like, I don't necessarily believe him either, you know, so he's like, you know, and where. Like, are you there? And he said he's tired of this narrative that was being painted of him being this flamboyant person and being. Listen, you're the person who painted that picture. You're the one who showed up on. Watch what happens live in your Gay Pride shirt. Get out of here. Exactly. Painting that picture. But you, sir, okay, if you don't like it, put down the finger paints.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. You seemed really very happy to take that opportunity to be a bartender. Okay, Mr. Shear. So then Eddie's basically keeps saying that he didn't get into details. So Andy's like, well, did he say she owes him money or did he say she owes him money for appearing on the show with him? Does he accept Venmo or is it Zell? What? How does this work? And so Andy's. And he's like, I. I really. I don't know. I don't have any more answers. Okay. All right, I have a question. What kind of shirt was he wearing in the FaceTime? Because that may inflect that if he has a nice shirt that shows that he may have money. So we know he's. Baby. He's like, I. I don't have any more details. I can't give you any more details about this.

[Ronnie Karam]

I like that Andy just keeps going. He's like, well, okay. Did you ever loan TJ money for groceries? No. Okay. Did you ever play poker with CJ and possibly not give him his payout? Has TJ ever bought a scratch off ticket that you bought that maybe was $5? Now there's a. Well, I'm just for any money. Is there any money when you guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

Go out to dinner. Are you like, we'll split it, but I'll take care of the tip. Is that what we're talking about here? What's the degree here of the payment?

[Ronnie Karam]

She's like, I don't owe him any money. I just don't understand what capacity I could owe him money. I mean, I didn't like the relationship because of the pressure and that's why I got out. So maybe he's upset about that. I just can't imagine him saying this stuff because it's just not true. And I just. Just wholeheartedly don't believe it. And when he's like, oh, you still don't believe it? You still don't believe it? And she's like, it's not true, Wendy.

[Ben Mandelker]

But why would he lie to Edi? Because, by the way, guys also lie about to protect their fragile egos all the time. Just watch Southern Charm that's currently airing and you'll see men lying to themselves about reality. So Kieran is basically, she's like, so you're saying that TJ is lying? And she's like, I'm not saying that Eddie is lying. I'm just saying whatever this is, I don't believe it. I'm saying that TJ is hurt and he's not here and we are not together. And you know who else is not here? Arabella. And she is going to be the one who gets hurt the most.

[Ronnie Karam]

So I was like, oh, so he's just making stuff up? Yes, that's what pieces of little bottom feeding users do when they are cut off from attention. Look at him getting himself more attention on the tv. So Eddie's like, well, you know, I would say it didn't sound like he was upset he wasn't here and you guys aren't together. He was upset because of A, the story that's being painted of him, which again, that's his own fault. And B, showed up in that, you know, you were doing, you were doing dealings with him that he was unhappy with.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, did he tell you that I paid him to be on the show? Because Andy asked you that question just a moment ago and your answer was yes. So then Eddie's phone rings and they're like, oh, my God, it's funny. We're gonna include every single detail of this. So then Eddie's like, no, I don't. He. He basically is like, he just told me that you paid him to be on the show. And she goes, well, that's not what you said five minutes ago. He's like, five minutes ago, I said the exact same thing. He's like, look, I wasn't calling to be messy with him. I was just going to say, bro, where are you?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, because if. Yeah. So Stacy's like, well, I love Wendy, and out of love for you, I have a certain amount of respect for your husband, even though really don't understand his sports coat right now. But I just don't know you to be liars. I just. And I don't think you would make things up for clout, but it's just not true. And if TJ Is here, I invite him to come here and say them to my face. I'll pay for his plane ticket. And Wendy's like, we'll call him white now on FaceTime. And she's like, oh, we are no longer together, and I don't owe him a call. So they're like, well, wait a minute. So why don't you be okay with him showing up, but you wouldn't be okay with a call? Well, I don't have an unlimited plan, okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I call Bill, you know, because, like, if you're saying that you don't take our word, and then the only person we'll take is his. And he's like, yeah, why not call him right now? This could be television magic. Call him. Call him. And. And Stacy's like, I am not calling him. But your characters in question.

[Ronnie Karam]

Nah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So. Well, that's you. It's like, okay, all right, all right. We're just gonna leave it there. Can you. Can we all give Eddie a seafo a round of applause? Okay.

[Ronnie Karam]

Great, Eddie.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, now, when you go back into your dressing room, here is a Kit Kat wrapper. I've crushed it up into a ball. Could you throw it at Greg's face and say, ha, ha, no TV time for you?

[Ronnie Karam]

So Wendy's like, you're Eddie Whistledown. And he's like, I'm Eddie the whistleblower. So they're attacked. They're applauding him. And Giselle's like, well, he just came and told the truth. And now she's like, well, for the record, I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. You know, if you felt like you wanted to get on the show and, you know, you needed a storyline, like, who hasn't paid for a liner, too?

[Ben Mandelker]

And let me tell you one thing, Ashley Darby, let me say it that you can hear me. I didn't need TJ to get on this platform or any. Any person, because I could have been like, Karen Huger and just gotten a DUI instead.

[Ronnie Karam]

And she's like, let me be clear. I don't need an accessory, and I'm not gonna say it again. And she's just like, nobody believes you. Nobody believes you. And she's like, the world won't believe you. You either. She's like, I don't care.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, you could squash it very quickly if you called him. She's like, well, I'm sure that I could just call him for everyone's benefit here. They're like, no, it's for your benefit. Listen, I'm just saying that as your friend who loves you, okay? If you come back to this group and you bring up this topic again and you say it never happened or TJ cleared it up, understand, none of these women. Nobody's gonna believe you. And your character and who you are will always be questioned because you had the opportunity cleared up, and you didn't take it. And I say that with love. And I'm not bullying you. I'm just reminding you that you're being a total idiot right now.

[Ronnie Karam]

On tv, I stand in my truth. And Andy is like, well, the control room, who can't even seem to wrestle a tape out of Mia's cleavage, is telling me me that he did say it. So come on. Control. Control room, right now. What? Right now. Down the well. Where, Lassie? Where? Okay. Okay. They're gonna bring it out on my phone. Okay. And I'm gonna show it to you. She's like, I stand in my truth. Show me the tape. So they bring out the phone.

[Ben Mandelker]

By the way, just want to say Mia has left the building. Does anyone care? No? Okay, great. Thanks, everyone.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, he's like, you want to come over here? She's like, I can't stand up in this dress, Andy. And if I go bend down over you, my boobs are gonna fall all over your face. And he's like, okay, I'll go sit.

[Ben Mandelker]

Next to you then.

[Ronnie Karam]

Now she's like, what about me? I can't get up either. Well, what about me? I can't get up either. It's like, no one can move. Andy just, like, scoot them all over to get them in position.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Andy is so excited because normally he'd be like, can we get someone in here to help her move next to me? Because he's not gonna move, but he's like, this is a moment. I'm. I want to sit right next to her. I want to hear her feel her breath on my shoulders as she gasps as she Watches this. So he, like, he. He gets right and in there, you know, so. And he's like, okay, here we go. Here we go. All right, you ready? Watch. Okay. So she's like, okay, well, this is just a shirtless man with a large dick who wasn't this guy behind your bar but the other day. Oh, sorry, we're on Grindr. Let me move on to the. Okay, here we go. Here's the video. All right, so we see the.

[Ronnie Karam]

And meanwhile, Ashley's over there messing with her dress because she's got this big dress with, like, tin foil coming. That girl looks like when you. You know, when you take food home from a restaurant and it's wrapped in tin foil and you're like, I'm gonna save this for tomorrow. But then you're kind of drunk, and you just rip it open and just start binging out of it. That's what Ashley looks like. She looks like a piece of chicken that she couldn't help eating at, like, 2 in the morning. So he shows her the tape, and it's. You know, we've seen most of this, and he's like, well, I'm not ever gonna be in D.C. again. You know, she's paying me to do the show, man. And everyone's like, what? And Stacy, he goes, I didn't hear that. What did he say? And they're like, oh, for Christ's sake. So they have to rewind it so she can really get it through her head that he said it. And he says it again. You know, she's paying me to do the show. Like, come on, you got to talk to that girl. Tell her to give me my money.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wow. It's also, like, such a douchey thing to do. Like, it's so. Like, even if it's true, it's so douchey. And he's also totally, like. Like, his code switching between bro and, like, Stacy's boyfriend is so obnoxious. I mean, get. We all code switch around different people. Like, I definitely act gayer when I'm around the gays. I act a little bit more bro. Y. When we're on bros, you know, people do it with basically different groups. So I get it. People do that. But this code switching between bro and. And, like, TJ that we've seen is, like. It just. It goes beyond code switching. It just goes into fakery. You know, It's. It is no longer in the realm of code switching. This is just someone who is, like, putting on a front, and it just. This. This just reads like A guy who's just trying to impress the bros and trying to be like, yo, that. Am I right, bros? Like, she's paying me, right? Hey, bro, that show. I am.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm a bro. I'm just like, oh, gosh, just go away forever, TJ.

[Ronnie Karam]

So TJ's like, she's whack, man. So that's it. So he gets off, and. And he's like, wow, he called you whack. That's the worst thing I've ever heard. And me, Jacqueline goes, oh, wow. So you. You were calling Mia and Mia liar? And they're like, oh, no, you're liars, too. Giselle goes, yeah, Mia is a liar. So whatever. That doesn't. That doesn't negate Mia being a liar. Sorry. Nice try, though. So Stacy's like. And Kieran is like, so that's your best friend? And Stacy's like, well, it's one thing to see someone disrespect you and make you question your relationship, but this is hurtful. It's just so very hurtful. That's all I can say. I just can't imagine him saying that. This is AI. This is AI.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sounds like ma'am, so. And he's like, well, you heard him say it. I absolutely heard him say that. And I can't believe that my ears are betraying me in this way. I have to see a doctor because there's just no way he would ever say it. So it's. At this point, it's my eardrums.

[Ronnie Karam]

So she's like, you know, I can't believe someone who prides themselves on being a man of God and being honest and someone I think loves me even if we're not together, to say that I've never paid him a dime and I've never owed him anything. And Ashley, meanwhile, is like, you think she uses Cash App or sell Venmo? I mean, what is it? And Stacy's like, I'm hurt. So he's like, okay, well, did you say, if you come shoot with me, I'll pay your expenses? And she's like, I've never paid him. It's just not true. I just. It is just not true. True. Well, for the record, can I just say, you can feel how you want to feel, and I'm sorry you're going through it. But most importantly, my husband did not lie. And Giselle's like, wendy, this is not about Eddie.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I'm just saying, I always got to clear my husband's name. You know what I Mean, Well, I just feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me. I don't even know what to say. Well, so is TJ gonna have any Venmo Zell receipts? Because once he puts those on Instagram, especially once this airs, what's gonna happen? And everyone's like, yeah, the receipts are coming, but I never paid him in any capacity. Oh, really? Have you promised to pay him? Never. So easy to have text messages, babe. They're all kind of like, hey, we've been down this path before. This is your first time. But we know you're taking a stance now. But there will be receipts that come back to hit you if you're lying. So this is your chance to get ahead of it.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's like, why is he doing this to you? And why would he call you Whack? That's just so mean. And. And he's like, yeah, it is mean. I just don't get it. And, you know, let me tell you, this hurt people. Hurt people.

[Ben Mandelker]

Everyone's like, oh.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's like, oh, please shut up. This is bullshit. You need to stop. And so Stacy. This is when Stacy brings up her, you know, listen, you all had doubts about tj, and you speak very poorly of him, but now when he gives you something salacious to use against me, suddenly he's like the pinnacle of truth. So what the fuck? And you're going to believe him over me? And Andy goes, oh, I thought you were going to say you guys. Tj. I mean, don't you think this is the moment we could have Stacy apologize to the. No, she doesn't owe them anything. I think they're being monsters. I think this lady at least is owed the benefit of the doubt.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I mean, she is. I mean, even. Even if she winds up, you know, lying, she is owed the benefit of the doubt over tj. It is. And it was funny because I think we all thought she was gonna say, you know, you guys were always come down on tj, and in the end, it turns out you're right. He is a piece of. We all thought that's what she was gonna say, but. But instead it was, you know, it wasn't wrong what she said, saying, you guys all came down on him. But then, you know, when it's his word versus mine, you take his side. It's also an equally fair thing to say. So Stacy's just saying, like, I can't clear up something I can't make sense of. So, anyway, we. We go to a flashback of Wendy just trying to. Again, hammer through her head that, like, if you say nothing, if you say nothing happened, like, we're gonna think you're a liar. Something does happen, you know, so like, like this is like your chance. She's like, look, I do not look crazy and I can't clear up something that I can't explain. I can't explain this. So he's like.

[Ronnie Karam]

So they're like, call him, call him, call him. She goes, I absolutely will be calling him with my attorney. And they're like, oh geez, come on now.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ben Mandelker]

All right, well, earlier this year, a car accident and a DUI arrest left Karen injured and Potomac shaken. And while Karen was tight lipped about her ongoing legal situation, she was very open to putting other people's business on blast. Well, guess what, that now she's been found guilty of drunk driving. And instead of answering for her behavior today, she went to a recovery center, which we all support, even though she's totally not answering for her behavior, but we totally support the recovery center. Just had to say that part once again.

[Ronnie Karam]

So it's the Karen's drunk segment again, because we've already had the segment, but let's do it again. Why not? So Giselle saying that she was just shocked. And then we see a clip of her and Karen at lunch. And Giselle's saying, well, you're gonna go to court at some point, or did you already go to court?

[Ben Mandelker]

Ah.

[Ronnie Karam]

And she goes, well, you can read the newspapers, Lost magazine, New York Times, whatever you'd like. I'm in all of them. And she's like, well, I'm just. I'm not trying to be messy. And then the waiter comes over and he's like, this woman, Karen has never had a drink here ever, Ever. We also don't have a liquor life.

[Ben Mandelker]

At least, but still the telly home. Later, the character would telly ho. So we. So we see like this. This lengthy segment because they're basically like, look, we edited together the segment and we're gonna air it even if Karen's not here. Okay? We're gonna make sure that this happens because it is very, very lengthy. Like, I'm actually scrolling through quite.

[Ronnie Karam]

It really is. I'm scrolling through it right now. Like, damn.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, back. All right, well, Karen's case is now closed and the verdict has been decided. As of this tape sleeping, her sentencing won't be known for another few weeks. But while Karen isn't here, there's still a lot of questions that viewers had that should be discussed so, for instance, Graham from Cracker said, we saw Karen deny having a drinking problem and abstaining from drinking on camera. But has her drinking been alluded to through. Hasn't it been alluded to through a lot of series? Has anyone's here seen this side of Karen? What I'm trying to say is that she an alcoholic. Can you back me up?

[Ronnie Karam]

They're all like, yes, Karen's a drunk. Everybody knows. Anyone with a TV knows this. And he's like, well, but do think that she had a drinking problem, or do you think that she has a drinking problem? Those. Those are your choices. Okay? So basically, I think he's saying, do you think she had one or that she has one? And she's like, well, she.

[Ben Mandelker]

Or you've seen this before. Like. Like, yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ashley's like, well, she's as alcohol to cope with some of her difficulties, which is not a drinking problem. Okay. That's like seeing a hole in your wall and putting spackle in it. Okay. It's just doing what needs to be, then.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sure.

[Ronnie Karam]

So they're like, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

I was gonna say, Jacqueline, you received the most anger from Karen because you reference her drinking, and we see, you know, Jacqueline getting it. How did you feel after watching this? Back she goes, thank you for finally asking me a question. I've been on this sofa for about an episode and a half. So to be very crystal clear, I mean, I don't want to be too heavy with this, so I guess I'll be crystal light. Mia threw me under the bus and talked about our private conversation. So this is really Mia's fault why Karen was mad at me. And they're like, okay, come on, Jacqueline. You did say it, though.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. She's like, well, I said it to Giselle. So then we see the clip of her telling the whole party, well, she called me, and she was a little lady. And so Jacqueline's like, well, I wasn't being malicious. And then she. She dragged me the entire season over that one little piece of conversation. I was just out of concern. So I agree that Karen went too hard on her for that. But listen, an alcoholic is not going to like you talking about their alcoholism, okay? Until they say they're an alcoholic, and then that's all they want to talk about. Okay? Once you say I'm an alcoholic, then you never shut the up about it for the rest of your life. Okay? But we're not there yet. So then.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, yeah. And also, Karen was like, oh, I found someone I can be who could be my punching Bag. I can make this. Like, this is gonna be who I can deflect onto the whole season to.

[Ronnie Karam]

Right? So she's like, I wasn't being malicious. And Giselle says, yeah, you know, but her problem was she was supposed to be going to court during filming, and all of this stuff could have been used against her, and so that's why she was pissed. So Wendy's like, giselle, I would agree with you, but we know that her continuously pushed her court case back. And I found that odd because I would have rather gone to court before the show aired. Well, she was doing that, so you guys couldn't use it against her on camera the whole time. Time. You know, I think also that Karen.

[Ben Mandelker]

Had terrible legal counsel. Let's not. Let's not overlook that part, which is about to be discussed very shortly.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So then we talk about the balloons. Jacqueline bringing the balloons. And she wasn't being shady. She was just there in peace, which is, of course. And she's like, well, initially, you know, it was because she came after my child's father.

[Ben Mandelker]

And then it was like. But then at first, I came there to be shady, but then it actually became a beautiful thing. Okay, wait, so were you were trying to be shady? She's like, no, no. It was gonna. It was gonna be a lovely moment. So we see a flashback of that, and she says, well, I just. I felt like that was really dirty work of Karen. However, I switched things up. I wanted it to be positive. All right, but by the way, did she wind up suing you for ruining the environment? Now, that's a court case I would like to see on tv.

[Ronnie Karam]

This is why they can't fire Karen no matter what. That shit's hilarious. So then he's like, okay, we're gonna move on. You're boring. So know, Kierna, you've been a close. Karen. Ally, do you regret defending her? She's like, well, you know, I have a social work clinic with Greg. And so it would have been nice if she had just come to that. Would you stop trying to plug. What do you guys get out of this social work company? Like, how much money are you making that you need to plug it this much? Is it like premium social work? Like, we're gonna come pick the children, but we're gonna do it wearing a suit, and we're gonna feed them very nice Fruit Roll Ups in the car. Like, what is this, white glove Social work staff?

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, you know, a real friend would have helped me promote my social work. She should have entered our 12 step program. I had a polo shirt ready for her, a free polo shirt for Karen Huger. So. And he's like, okay, well why do you guys all think Karen decided to take this case to trial? And Ashley's like, well, I mean, Karen had terrible legal counsel. I say that is someone, someone who's been in a five year divorce from Michael Darby and was actually married to.

[Ronnie Karam]

Him in the first place.

[Ben Mandelker]

Someone who takes terrible advice when I say this, but knowing that footage was.

[Ronnie Karam]

Out there, like who would, like who.

[Ben Mandelker]

Would advise that you take a public trial?

[Ronnie Karam]

And Stacy says, well, maybe she didn't remember what happened. Show me the tape. And they're thinking that's the first time she saw it. And Wendy's like, well, weeks ago it was reported that head council asked for the footage. So they had the footage. And I'm with Wendy on this one because I don't believe that there's a piece of footage on earth that Karen is in that Karen is not going to watch. I think that she would be like, you've got more footage of me? Oh, it's the drunk driving episode. Let's watch it. I look amazing during that. Can we use a little bit of clip of that? Get the Thomas Jefferson's concubine. And let's just use that clip for Instagram. I Look amazing. Hashtag HomeGoods just in case.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's literally like Faye Dunaway on that voicemail where she was like, where she was like yelling at the, at the reporter for writing a bad profile of her in the New York Times or something. She's like, what about me? You know, I was in, I was in, you know, I was in Jaws 45. I was excellent at that. I mean that's. Karen Huger is basically like Bravo's version of Faye Dunaway. It's not exact quote, but you know, Faye put away.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Giselle's like, well, it's delusion. You know, she pushed it and she didn't want to take any deal. And Andy goes, what? She was offered a. And she was offered two deals. And Giselle heard that it was six months house arrest or 60 days jail. And Andy's like, I wanted taking house arrest. I love my house.

[Ben Mandelker]

Everyone's like, yeah, how could you not take that? Wendy's like, I would bedazzle my little ankle bracelet in style. And she'd probably make all her kids wear like a matching ankle bracelet because that's what she does. So Giselle's like, well now her lawyer did not tell me this. I just Want to put that out there? I did not hear from the lawyer. I want. I want that out there. But I just heard it's credibly through someone named Smerin. Nah. And he's like, all right, well, something that probably didn't age too well for Karen was when she said clankity clank. And as proof that didn't age well, let's play that.

[Ronnie Karam]

And so he's like, vindication, Ashley. And Ashley's like, well, of course, you know, I did think about that in my mind, but. But, you know, nothing's great. But one of the things I wanted to ask her here today, and, you know, maybe I should talk to her. Picture. Hi. Picture. So one of the journalists told me that. Okay, so she's saying that there had been a person driving the car or in the car with Karen, who was actually driving the vehicle. This is what a journalist told her. And so we see the body cam footage, and Karen does say that in the footage. She's like, well, you know, Ray, this is the security that you got me. And that's your fault, Ray, because they actually fled the scene. Scene, Which I think was Karen just lying then to get herself out of it. Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So then Ashley said she got called by a journalist. You know, Diane Sawyer called up and was like, hey, we heard there was another man in the car. And so Ash is thinking, like, this is interesting, because it's like, now, a journalist heard this too, but where do you think the journalist heard it? From Karen, probably, like, this doesn't validate anything, so. And he's like, okay, all right. Well, that's fun. Fast, fast, casual. From. From Culver City. Said the biggest mystery is where was Karen before the accident? She said she was getting drinks with her girlfriends, but no girlfriends came forward and testified. So Giselle's like, says that she thinks that Karen was at a restaurant four minutes from the house. And, you know, Andy's like, God, but it's so easy to get an Uber. It's so easy. And so Wendy's like, I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna say anything. Never mind. I'm not gonna say anything. No, don't ask.

[Ronnie Karam]

Please don't ask me anymore. I will not say a thing. I'm a good person, and I will not say this thing. And so they're like, wow, Wendy's strong, huh? So Andy's like, okay, well, we're gonna leave it there. Jacqueline, thank you for the nothing that you bring to this show. Please leave and she's like, bye, everybody. I'm not a liar. You're a liar. Okay, welcome back. We're gonna wrap things up. Just kidding. It's gonna be another 45 minutes of this episode, but we want to show a scene that Karen shot. It's extremely important and very personal. Funnel. Let's roll the tape of Karen. And Stacy's like, show me the footage.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wait, real quickly before we press play. Stacy, you want to call dj? No, thought I'd try. Hey, Stacey.

[Ronnie Karam]

All right, let's play the footage. I'm a man, I'm a man and I'm sick of. Cause I'm a man who's sick of. I'm sorry. That was Dr. Greg from Married to Medicine. Single. I'm a man and I'm sick of. Can we roll the proper footage, please? So did you watch that last night Marriage?

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I have not watched it yet. Was he singing something? He wasn't singing.

[Ronnie Karam]

Greg started a fight with Quad's new boyfriend on their vacation and the boyfriend came running after Greg to beat him up, but they separated him. He never touched Greg, But Greg still filed a police report against this guy to try and get him to go to jail. And they're like, greg, it's not battery if he didn't touch you.

[Ben Mandelker]

He.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, well, there's a law. It's called thinking of battery. And so they got me on. I'm gonna get him on thinking about it and he's gonna go to prison. And you guys, I'm very sad about it. And so I did something, I got creative and I wrote a song. As he whips up. He whips up his phone and he's sing. He's written a song and he's like, I'm a man and I'm under stress and I'm sick of.

[Ben Mandelker]

How is this guy a psychologist or a psychiatrist? He has such small dick energy. I mean, the fact again that he was. That he challenged the NFL player to a push up contest. I mean, g. Like, he is. He's been the worst since the. The beginning of that show. And he is believe he did a song also. Do the like Laws. Do laws about assault and battery even qualify if it happened in a foreign country? Because they were in a foreign. Aren't they in the Bahamas or Jamaica? They're in the Caribbean. They're not in America. You can't press charges about an assault that happened in a different country. I don't think, I mean, I could be wrong. Especially when the assault didn't happen. Come on Dr. Gregory. Geez, that guy is the worst. Yeah, no, I didn't watch it because.

[Ronnie Karam]

I was watching the Oscars assaulted me.

[Ben Mandelker]

I was watching what a loser. And so I. I did not have time to watch Marriage Medicine last night before.

[Ronnie Karam]

I was watching real quality music or real quality creativity, which is Dr. Greg is singing his song. So that was funny. So anyway, we see this scene that Karen shot, and it's the same day, probably, that she shot her other thing. She looks like the same glam. She's like, glam to the nines. Like, here I am just reading in bed. I'm reading a book on Wick. It's called John Wick, Sophie Wicks. He's. He's only got four, so I've got him beat.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Ray's like, oh, you actually look pretty good. She's like, oh, thank you. Thank you. You're very funny. And she's like, well, you look better than you probably feel at the moment. Right. That was the line I was trying to feed you. Oh, yes. Well, I look good to cover how badly I feel. Thank you, Ray, for reminding me what my line was supposed to be. What? Well, he's like, well, it is what it is. I know. I think, you know, dots are being connected for me. You know, I didn't. I didn't watch the tapes before the trial. And I'm realizing that if you watch tapes, you can see dots, and if you see dots, you can see lines. And if you see lines, you don't cross them and you don't wind up across the median. So it all makes sense to me now.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, she's first getting out there that she's never seen this tape. And Giselle's like, I don't believe that. And Ray's like, I didn't watch the tape either. Well. Well, then you both deserve to go to jail.

[Ben Mandelker]

Who, yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Has evidence that they're like, who cares? So I might be going to prison. Who needs to look at the evidence?

[Ben Mandelker]

Who cares? And honestly, he. I. I can understand if she doesn't want to see it. It's too embarrassing for her. But I think that he should have watched it. He should have been like, okay, she. It's too uncomfortable for her. I'm going to watch. As someone who cares about the protection of my wife and her future, I am going to watch. He's like an executive, or he was an executive. He should be able to handle this.

[Ronnie Karam]

So he watched it, too. She just told. I mean, are you kidding? Ray's gonna watch that? It's like Ray's. If it was a film, it would be called Almost, you know, Free the Story.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, because I didn't want you. I didn't want you to watch it because I know you would have. You would. You would have told me about it. So I'm just sitting there in the courtroom and I finally have to watch it because I kept saying, well, surely they made a mistake. Right? Because everything's not connecting for me. And I watched it. I'm telling you, I don't recognize that woman. She is beautiful. My goodness. Have you seen a hotter woman on screen? Triple 20 up there. Very good. Great work, ma'am.

[Ronnie Karam]

But I'll tell you this. As the credits rolled, one thing I thought to myself was, where's the applause? That was an amazing performance. Whoever that woman was. Amazing. No one applauded me, Ray. Not one. And then I knew the tides were turning.

[Ben Mandelker]

When I finally sat down and watched footage of that night and I saw a younger version of me crawl out of my back and have a great time out there in Los Angeles, I thought that was pretty good. Little gross, but pretty good. Like, I think you're mixing up the substance with your. Your DUI video. Well, so be it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, it helped me. It helped me to see it because I blacked out before the impact, Ray. So according to David's testimony, when I hit the tree three, I was already blacked out. And he's like, but they were doing construction on the road. Ray, stop. Stop enrabling her. You are. You are the worst enabler I've ever heard. This is, like, beyond it. It's enrablement. Just stop coming up with excuses.

[Ben Mandelker]

You had no idea that they had built a median and changed the road 90 degrees? That's right. In my black. Dad said I would have gotten home safely had they kept the road going straight.

[Ronnie Karam]

But.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Karen's like, well, yes. I mean, there's new construction, but you know what? It's my fault. I take full accountability for this thing that I didn't do. And I need to tell you something. Self medicating is one thing, but I started doing that seven years ago when mom and dad died. And so when I started drinking and started taking antidepressants in alcohol form, it was fine. It would help. But then I needed more and more. And as life kept on lifing. And so instead of going back to the doctor, doctor, I adjusted my medication. So it's not my fault. It's medicine's fault. Thank you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, she starts this whole like, oh, yeah, I started Taking antidepressants. But then I needed more and more antidepressants. That is not how antidepressants work. This is such. You've never heard of anybody overdosing on their Prozac? It's just not true. It's not true. Now, maybe mixing them with alcohol can be ugly, but you should know the, that if you've been on these for seven years, then you should know not to be mixing them with alcohol. So she's like, well, I opened a beer, but I said, I don't want Pierre. So I had a champagne, which is nothing, it's basically water. But I had forgotten that I had taken the medication, even though I've been overdosing on it for seven years now. Like, Karen, just stop. It doesn't make it any better. If you took too much medication and drove. It's still driving under the influence. And this is your fourth fucking time. Lady just stopped.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, this is what she. What she's trying to say is this. Okay, I drove drunk. I admit I drove drunk. But I don't want to say I have a drinking problem because when I get out of jail, I still want to drink. I'm just gonna say. I'm just gonna say it was the meds. So that way I'm not committed on camera to saying that I have a drinking problem. And then people will get on me when I drink a martini. I'm just gonna say it was the meds and that way I can have fun when I get back and I will take Ubers the rest of the week way.

[Ronnie Karam]

And she's like, well, you know, I never drink and drive. No, you. He doesn't know that because her next thing is, you and I have an agreement, right? I have a driver. So many rumors because I have a driver, you know, that he goes, yeah, you know, that's interesting part, because they got into that whole blue eyes thing. Cuz you have a driver that has blue eyes, right? You guys, you're really trying to cover your ass for all of the seasons in a row. This is not going to work. And then we cut to the ladies reacting and Giselle's like, oh my God, I. I can't. I can't imagine like covering all the bases here.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then Ray's like, you know, people don't realize that I want you to have drivers. I mean, when you, when you had a dy. When was that again? 13 years ago. So long ago. We basically shouldn't even consider it anymore. And that's when we said, no more drinking. And Driving. And I guess you feel especially bad about it now that you've been there and done that. You learned a lesson. And they're like, oh, my God. Like, no.

[Ronnie Karam]

And also, just to. I know that I've already said this in this recap, but Karen, it turns out she not only got that one years ago, she also had two others that were expunged or not put on her record or whatever. Apparently there's. This is the fourth, so this is crazy.

[Ben Mandelker]

So you know what's also funny, by the way? What's. I just want to say what's really funny is that, like, at the beginning of the reunion, when Karen did her video, they were, like, pretending to cry. They feel so bad for Karen, and they're like, this is so good. So good that she's finally doing this, because they can't say, okay, this is. She's just trying to get out of being at the reunion. Like, they kind of get there, but at first they're like, we're. No, we're really happy for Karen. But now they're just like, okay, fuck this bitch. She's fake. She's not taking accountability. This all is like a PR stunt, right? Like, they finally, like, their. Their true feelings about this entire situation have finally come out.

[Ronnie Karam]

And I don't blame them, because this is just. This is too much. I mean, it's bad enough to do your whole thing at the beginning, your whole speech at the beginning, but now to have this where you're just like, let's shoot a scene of me in full glam where I'm taking responsibility for nothing and blaming meds that a ton of people are on because of. They need them. And I'm gonna try and villainize, you know, meds instead, which is just ridiculous.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, what happened to me? I don't want that to ever happen to me again. I'm like, it didn't happen to you. You did it. This was not something that wasn't like a tree fell down on your car and sent you across that median. You drove drunk.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ray's like, well, before you beat yourself up too bad, he pulls out like, a big pie chart on a poster board. He's like, did you know that there are 6,000. There are 6 million car crashes every year in the United States and 97,000 people addicted to peanuts. What are we gonna do about it?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes, but how many of them reserve Medicaid and drive? What happened to me was self inflicted, convicted. I drove. I had that accident. I put people in danger. I'm Going away, not court ordered. I'm doing this for me. It wasn't my fault that someone. It was my fault. It was my fault that I did this. It's my fault that I let someone self medicate me. And unfortunately, these are the consequences of me allowing someone else to do this to me.

[Ronnie Karam]

I will be going to a wellness clinic and getting facials for 48 hours to show America that I care. So he's like, that is just beautiful. That is beautiful. So is this place Odate okay for the grande dame? And she's like, listen, I was Karen Hugo before the grand arm, and I'm going to retire the grand arm, and I'm going to be just Karen. That's me. Just Karen. Because Karen is enough. Well, with maybe a couple of blue cheese stuffed olives in it. Race, please stop.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Andy's like, all right, thoughts, everyone? And now she's like, well, I mean, they covered all the bases. So what did you see? Well, like Ashley said, they were trying to cover all the points that they think we're going to question. That wasn't accountability. Not to me. I don't know what that was. You need to scrap that. Pick that out. Do her some favors.

[Ronnie Karam]

That was so funny to me. And he was like, but it looked like she was trying to accept responsibility. They're like, oh, please. Until she started talking about not even drinking a beer. And someone's like, oh, what about the beers in the car? There were like, open beers found in the car. He's like, oh, God. Okay. So Giselle's like, were you drinking? Yes or no? He's like, okay, okay. So Ashley goes, well, I was on the train here, and I was sitting next to this guy, and I told him I was on the show, and he said, oh, oh, oh, I'm gonna Google it. So he googles it. And he's like, oh, I know this lady. I used to go to this restaurant in the mall, and she'd be wasted there every single day. Day.

[Ben Mandelker]

He said it was the legal seafood. Karen would go to legal seafood and get wasted. That is the funniest thing I ever heard. Just her sitting there in front of the chocolate volcano cake they have and just, like, getting wasted on some sort of, like, crab martini.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So she's like, it turns out that was Karen, and this was bought be before the unfortunate passing of her parents. And Wendy's like, well, that's what I was gonna say day. But when I said that, I wasn't going to say anything, Remember? And then you guys were supposed to keep asking me, but you stopped asking me. Well, that's what I was going to say is I also go to a place for lunch, and whenever I go in there, the waiter says, do you know Karen Hugo? She's drunk every day here. Okay, can we could just go back to hipaa. Waiter. Hipaa. What is everybody just. What kind of waiter are you? You're serving her the booze. You don't get to serve somebody the booze and then call them an alcoholic every day. Day. I don't know. Can. Can you. Can we just drink in peace anymore? For sake. This is why people drink at home now, you bunch of traders.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, this legal seafood waiter has clearly, you know, left. Left the service industry behind. And he's going to tell all. Like this is. He is like the. The Kitty Carlile. Whatever her name was, who would write the tell all books. He's like, everything you wanted to know about legal seafood, but we're too afraid to ask.

[Ronnie Karam]

So they are still talking about how she didn't watch a footage. Nobody believes that.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Carlisle is an opera singer. I just want to say she was a real Kitty Carlisle.

[Ronnie Karam]

Kitty Carson or Kitty. Yeah, I know who you mean. That's an old school reference, but yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Kitty Kelly.

[Ronnie Karam]

Kitty Kelly.

[Ben Mandelker]

Kitty Kelly. She wrote some. Some book that everyone. Nancy. A book about Nancy.

[Ronnie Karam]

It was about Reagan or something. Something. You're really reaching back in the vault for that one. Kidding. So he's like, well, but if. Why wouldn't. If she was about to go to jail. Wait, if she had watched the footage, then why would she go to. Why would she go to trial? Because she thought it was going to be thrown out. Karen's delusional. She just. She was probably just like, oh, well, they can't use that, right? You say they're going to throw it out. Okay, good. Get it thrown out. Thanks, Ted. Thanks.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, we know for sure is that her legal counsel knows because they submit an appeal to have that footage thrown away. It's like, well, at her sentencing is just in a few weeks. How do we think this is going to pan out for her? Do you think it's going to be funny? Is it going to be sexy? Well, the judge have new boobs. We need to know the answers.

[Ronnie Karam]

Judge, objection. Do new boobs, Judge Casey pay you.

[Ben Mandelker]

To do this case?

[Ronnie Karam]

So they talk about her sentencing and Giselle's like, well, you can't wear your wig in jail. You know, and she's 60. And to be going to jail at 60, that is a problem. And I. I Don't see that going well at all. And Karen is like, yeah, I don't want to envision that. You know, all she had to do was wear one of our polos. One day at lunch. Free social work for life.

[Ben Mandelker]

Someone messaged us and said, you know, last week we were saying that she's going to go to, like, a Martha Stewart kind of thing, Camp Cupcake, or where Teresa Giudice went, but those were, like, for federal crimes. And Karen is actually going to be going to county church jail, which is much rougher. And it's gonna be. It's gonna be a doozy for her, that's for sure. I mean, she's already there. Karen isn't. Karen Huger's in jail right now. It's wild.

[Ronnie Karam]

Crazy. So then they talk about how Wendy and Giselle are friends now. And, you know. You know, it's wrapping it up. Stacey, you had a great season until it ended. So where are you gonna go here with tj? She's like, I don't go anywhere with tj. I lost my best friend tonight, but I'll rise and I'll be all right. And Giselle goes, maya Angelou. Leave my Angelou alone. Just leave her alone.

[Ben Mandelker]

Ah, still I rise, because you'll see. You'll see. And Andy goes, well, speaking my Angelou, we lost Mia Angelou earlier tonight. And everyone's like, oh, God. Like, don't put Maya and Mia together. So Giselle's like, well, I think it's whack. Just like, TJ called Stacy, and I think you. You know, Wendy said, we've all done nonsense and craziness, and we all come to arena, and we all deal with it, and you don't run out. Not only do you not run out, you run out the building.

[Ronnie Karam]

So she's like, but she also stood on business, you know, no con, no contrition, no apologies. And so, you know, now we're sitting here on the couch, and everyone's had their opinion. All of a sudden, it's a very different Mia. The way she tears up. And so, you know, they're all talking about how Mia is so full of. And Wendy's like, well, I was trying to say earlier, you know, know, you had this time to quote, correct. And you did not. You know, so. And so. And just, like, goes. And she gone. And she. So Wendy goes, can I just say something? The very first season, I clocked Mia, I clocked her like, oh, geez.

[Ben Mandelker]

They're like, yeah, but, like, she's the easiest clock. Like, that's like walking into a swatch store and being like, I think there's watches in here. It's like, yeah, she's easy to clock. So, yeah, she's like, like, so we see flashback to that. Etc. And so now Stacy's like, Wendy always knew. All right, well, listen, it's been quite a year of ups and downs, trials and tribulations, but I stand by the fact that this group has come a long way and was incredible season, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's over. And just I was like, oh, so.

[Ronnie Karam]

Let'S take a shot. Good, let's, let's take a shot before we're done today, out of respect for Karen, we're not going to have alcohol. I have passed everyone entire bottles of Prozac to swallow. Okay, great. Thanks, everybody. So on the screen we see February 26, 2025, Karen was sentenced to two years in prison with one year suspended. She was immediately taken to prison to start her sentence.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, they didn't even hand out some sort of like, gag or like, like Panama hats or whatever, like anything. So, yeah, that was it. The last hour was. It was kind of a goofy hour. I actually kind of liked how kind of freewheeling and sort of silly and stupid it was, was. But yeah, I was done. I'm honestly, I'm happy with this season. I think it was a good, like, it showed. This show still has a lot of life left in it after last, last year's like, tragic, terrible season. I think overall the season was very entertaining despite like a lull in the middle. And I'm excited for next year.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think they had a good start, a good end, a terrible in between and a good reunion. So I hope they can keep the good of it and keep it going next season because I still love this show and I'm excited for Atlanta, which starts week, which means our coverage also starts next week. So join us for that and we will talk to you next time. If you want videos or traders recaps, any of that stuff links to our tickets for our private show. Go on over to watch whatcrappens.com and Patreon and all that good stuff. We'll talk to you next time, guys. Love you. Bye.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King.

[Ronnie Karam]

Our way is the Amber way.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's always automatic with Ashley Auto.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ashley Savone, she don't take no baloney.

[Ben Mandelker]

Put your hands together for Carly clap Catherine D. Bernardo has our hearto get.

[Ronnie Karam]

On the right foot with Chrissy Offutt Dana C. Dana do we never miss her call? It's Diane Call Aaron mcnicholas she don't.

[Ben Mandelker]

Miss no trickolas Jamie she has no less namey you'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones Jones I go, you go we all go for Hugo Hava Nagila Weber we could all learn from Jennifer.

[Ronnie Karam]

Kearns she's our kind of mess It's Jennifer Messer Sipped some scotch with Jessica.

[Ben Mandelker]

Trotch Knock, knock, knocking on Katie Manock's door She's our favorite streamer Caroline Peacock.

[Ronnie Karam]

Kristen the Piston Anderson Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacy B Rigging.

[Ben Mandelker]

The funk It's Leslie Plunket she gets.

[Ronnie Karam]

A name from us It's Lindsay Bay D let's give a Kisserino to Lisa Leno Fresh as a daisy It's Maisie McHenry we love her on the rocks It's Melissa Cox Megan Berg. You can't have a burger without the.

[Ben Mandelker]

Berg this is Living with Michelle Vivian.

[Ronnie Karam]

I love Aya Olivia Williamson Tastier than Flanderson It's Rachel Manderson she sure is swell It's Raquel, yes, we canna It's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Savannah Cast a spell with Shannon Spellman let's share with Sharon Eldridge the Bay.

[Ronnie Karam]

Area and our super Premium sponsors she's VVIP it's Amanda V. Somebody get us.

[Ben Mandelker]

10Cc'S of Betsy MD she's got a leg up it's Beth Ani we're taking the gold with Brenda Silva let's get.

[Ronnie Karam]

Real with Caitlin O'Neal don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily sides who, what, why, where? And Gwen Pentland it's our queen It's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Queen Laifa Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall Know your words with Jason Kurt we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch She's a little bit loony Juni, my Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo we love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley we're ride or die for Lisa Rider Baron She's a whiz It's Liz Sarthy always killing it It's Lola Al Kalani the incredible.

[Ronnie Karam]

Edible Matthew Sisters she eases our woes It's Melissa St. Rose Give him hell.

[Ben Mandelker]

Ms. Noel she's the queen bee It's Sarah Lemke Shannon out of a Cannon Anthony, let's take off with Tamla plane.

[Ronnie Karam]

She ain't no shrinking violet Cootar. We love you guys. If you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey Imagine this.

[C]

You help your little brother land a great job abroad, but when he arrives, the job doesn't exist exist. Instead, he's trapped in a heavily guarded compound, forced to sit at a computer and scam innocent victims, all while armed guards stand by with shoot to kill orders. Scam Factory, the explosive new true crime podcast from Wondery exposes a multi billion dollar criminal empire operating in plain sight. Told through through one family's harrowing account of sleepless nights, desperate phone calls and dangerous rescue attempts, Scam Factory reveals a brutal truth. The only way out is to scam their way out. Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Scam Factory early and ad free right now by Joining Wondery at 24 I lost my narrative. Or rather it was stolen from me, and the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks both recognizable and unrecognizable recognizable names about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up, they connected with the people that I'm talking to, and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.