#2881 Summer House S09E17: Front Paige News

Summary

Watch What Crappens Podcast Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Watch What Crappens
• Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
• Network: Wondery
• Episode: #2881 Summer House S09E17: Front Paige News
• Release Date: June 5, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode #2881 of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve deep into the tumultuous ninth season of Bravo's reality show, Summer House. The episode, titled "Front Paige News," centers around the dramatic departure of Paige Desorbo and the ensuing chaos within the house. Ben and Ronnie offer their trademark blend of praise, ridicule, and sharp commentary on the show's latest developments.

Live Show Announcements

Before diving into the Summer House recap, Ben and Ronnie announce their upcoming live events:

• Seattle Recap Event: Real Housewives of Miami premiere in Seattle at Neptune.
• Finale Event: Mounting Hysteria Tour finale in Los Angeles at The Fonda Theater on June 19.

Notable Quote:

Ben Mandelker [01:38]: "We're going to have a great time in Seattle... and it's going to be so fun."

Patreon Content Update

The hosts briefly touch upon their Patreon offerings, highlighting exclusive content such as bonus episodes and video recaps. They mention their recent coverage of Love Island, emphasizing Ronnie's "psychological deep dives" into the participants' behaviors.

Notable Quote:

Ronnie Karam [03:00]: "I think we're doing very good psychological deep dives on these children."

Summer House Recap

Paige Desorbo's Departure

The centerpiece of the episode is Paige Desorbo's exit from Summer House. Paige delivers a heartfelt yet scathing farewell, criticizing the cast and the show's environment.

Notable Quotes:

Paige [03:43]: "I've made this decision not to return to Summer House."

Paige [04:25]: "You are the people that deserve Carl. I'm out of here. Bye. Stupid."

Ronnie and Ben express their disappointment and analyze the impact of Paige's departure on the show's future.

Notable Quote:

Ben Mandelker [06:36]: "I think this is Bravo. You failed... Summer House without Paige, I think this is tough."

Cast Dynamics and Future Concerns

The hosts discuss the remaining cast members and the potential struggles Summer House might face without a central figure like Paige. They speculate on Bravo's casting decisions, expressing concerns over the show's direction and audience reception.

Notable Quote:

Ben Mandelker [07:35]: "They have to be in that house by July... so they only have so much time before they start shooting."

Reunion Set Critique

Ben and Ronnie critique the show's reunion set, describing it as the "worst reunion set they've ever done." They mock the "Snooze Fest" theme and the aesthetically displeasing pastels.

Notable Quotes:

Ben Mandelker [11:22]: "I was very unhappy with that."

Ronnie Karam [12:31]: "Snooze Fest is not... Maybe not the best."

Carl's Storyline and Tooth Trauma

A significant portion of the episode humorously dissects Carl's ongoing storyline about his dental issues. Ben and Ronnie mock the repetitive focus on Carl's teeth, turning it into a running joke throughout their recap.

Notable Quotes:

Ronnie Karam [05:57]: "Carl's sad monologue moment. Cue up the violin."

Ben Mandelker [50:36]: "I have, like, yellow teeth, too."

Kyle and Amanda's Relationship Struggles

The hosts analyze Kyle Cook and Amanda Foster's tumultuous relationship, particularly focusing on their discussions about having a baby. Ben and Ronnie criticize the lack of genuine dialogue and the emphasis on superficial issues over deeper familial conflicts.

Notable Quotes:

Ronnie Karam [63:40]: "I think she is on a mental health journey... she deserves to have a family."

Ben Mandelker [65:54]: "I think she should fix her situation because... there are fundamental issues."

Craig's Redemption and Ongoing Lies

Paige's relationship with Craig becomes a focal point as the episode highlights Craig's attempts to mend his reputation. Ben and Ronnie are skeptical, asserting that Craig remains a "pathological liar" despite his efforts to change.

Notable Quotes:

Ben Mandelker [69:18]: "Craig is just a pathological liar."

Ronnie Karam [73:29]: "He's supporting you, Paige. Because, for those who don't remember, that's what Craig did."

Conclusion

Ben and Ronnie wrap up the episode by lamenting Paige's departure and speculating on the uncertain future of Summer House. They maintain their critical stance, expressing hope that Bravo can navigate the challenges ahead without losing its audience.

Notable Quote:

Ben Mandelker [85:12]: "It is a bummer. Yeah, it is a bummer."

Closing Remarks

As the episode concludes, Ben and Ronnie humorously navigate through a series of sponsor shout-outs, maintaining the show's lighthearted and irreverent tone.

---

Summary: In this comprehensive recap, Watch What Crappens dissects the dramatic exit of Paige Desorbo from Summer House, critiquing the show's cast dynamics, set design, and ongoing storylines. Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam blend sharp humor with insightful commentary, offering listeners a thorough analysis of the season's pivotal moments and their implications for the future of the reality series.

Transcript

[Ben Mandelker]

Wondry subscribers can listen to Watch what Crappens ad free right now. Join Wondri in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Misha Brown]

Every big moment starts with a big dream. But what happens when that big dream turns out to be a big flop? From Wondery and Ill Media, I'm Misha Brown and this is the Big Flop. Every week, comedians join me to chronicle the biggest flubs, fails and blunders of all time. Like Quib.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's kind of like when you give yourself your own nickname and you try to, like, get other people to do it.

[Misha Brown]

And the 2019 movie adaptation of Cats.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, if I'm watching the dancing and I'm noticing the feet aren't touching the ground, there's something wrong with the movie.

[Misha Brown]

Find out what happens when massive hype turns into major fiasco. Enjoy the Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to the Big Flop early and ad free on Wondery. Plus get started with your free trial at wondery.com plus.

[Ben Mandelker]

Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens? Hello and welcome to Watch what Crappens the podcast about all that crap on Bravo that we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker, and joining me today is the beautiful and radiant Ronnie Karam. Hi, Ronnie. How's it going?

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, hello, Ben. Unies. What you doing?

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, just hanging out with you. Getting ready to talk some summer house. Before we dive into that, guess what? Next week, Seattle. Big show recapping the the Real Housewives of Miami premiere that's going to be on Thursday up in Seattle at the Neptune. You better be there. We're going to have a great time. We love our Seattle peeps. We love all our Pacific Northwest peeps. We love all our peeps around the world. But we're going to have a great time in Seattle and it's going to be so fun. Great crowd always. So come join us. Ticket links are at watch or crappens.com also. Then the week after that, on June 19, we're doing Watch or Crappin's big grand finale event for the Mounting Hysteria tour. Last live show of the year. It's gonna be in Los Angeles, home turf. It's gonna be at The Fonda Theater, June 19th. Another great one. So don't miss these last two shows because once they're done, you're gonna have to wait a while to see a live show from us. So again, Tickets are at watchwckrappins.com the the links are There also. Join us on Patreon. We are covering Love Island. We just recorded our second episode. We recapped last night's show. We had so much fun. A lot of hot takes, A lot of opinions, assessments. A lot of truths were unraveled. Things we discovered. We discovered what certain people look like. We. Ronnie. Ronnie, basically, Ronnie figured out a whole bunch of shit on this episode.

[Ronnie Karam]

So I think we're doing very good psychological deep dives on these children.

[Ben Mandelker]

We are.

[Ronnie Karam]

And you are in child psychology.

[Ben Mandelker]

But you had some real good revelations during the episode, especially towards the end, about who certain people look like. So I really recommend. I really recommend you all listen. Patreon.com WalterCrapets okay, I'm sorry.

[Ronnie Karam]

Whatever I've done to that guy's sex life after that because.

[Ben Mandelker]

Anyway, it is time to move on with our recap of Summer House and.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. News, news time. Breaking news.

[Ben Mandelker]

Breaking news. Friend page news. Oh, my goodness. Someone's coming up to the podium to say something. Is this Paige Desorbo from Summerhous? Someone's crying.

[Ronnie Karam]

Someone's crying. That's my ex boyfriend. Please be quiet over there, drunk person. I have a little update for you. I've made this decision not to return to Summer House.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's been a very difficult choice between staying on a reality show with Kyle Cook, having to drink lover boy every weekend of my summer, or going and being successful and hanging out with real celebrities and enjoying a real summer for once in my life.

[Ronnie Karam]

I have spent seven years trying to pretend it is easy to have a conversation with people like Carl. And I am rich enough now that I no longer have to pretend you people bought that I shopped at Old Navy for a summer. You're all idiots. So I don't know why I'm wasting time with you. You are the people that deserve Carl. I'm out of here. Bye. Stupid.

[Ben Mandelker]

I. I always told myself I'll leave the show when they ever. Whenever they fix that damn door in the front. Well, they fixed it. So my time here is over.

[Ronnie Karam]

I've decided to leave this show to the elderly. Lindsay, enjoy. Enjoy this with your geriatric baby. I would like to just say, Lindsay, I'm so proud of you for actually giving birth to Matlock. Thank you.

[Ben Mandelker]

I have left you a six pack of Ovaltine in the fridge. Every time you drink one, think of.

[Ronnie Karam]

Me going, from now on, just know when you miss me, I'll be at home in my bed with my cat. Which is her. This is her. The Real way she ends it, she's like, I'll be in bed with Daphne. Goodbye. I love that Paige ended her relationship with Craig, which I always thought was kind of a branding deal anyway. And then I know we disagreed on that, but I always kind of looked at it like she looked at them like kind of the first couple type thing. Like, I'm gonna protect his personality. And now she got rid of Craig, and now she's doing the same thing with Daphne. She's like, I have a new line of pajamas called Daphne. Thank you very much. Out with one brand and with the new brand, this one can't look back or get drunk.

[Ben Mandelker]

I would also like to say that Daphne did not get kicked out of Kyle and Amanda's wedding. Any rumors that you heard were absolutely untrue. Cut to four years later when Daphne betrays Paige. Daphne absolutely did get kicked out of that wedding.

[Ronnie Karam]

Per thousand percent.

[Kyle Cook]

Thousand percent.

[Ronnie Karam]

A thousand percent. It was embarrassing.

[Ben Mandelker]

My ex cat was removed from the wedding, and I will never say her.

[Kyle Cook]

Name again for the rest of my life.

[Ronnie Karam]

This is the end of an era. Paige leaving Summer House. I'm bummed. I don't. You know, I wish I had more faith in casting, but they brought us Lexi this year.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am seriously very scared for the show. I think this is cannot. This is Bravo. You failed. What? To me, this is. She would not have left if they gave her the right money. I'm gonna tell you that right now. She is commanding probably a hefty price tag because she has blown up as she's always deserved to. And Bravo was probably not willing to pay that money. But Bravo, you should, because you also have Lindsay, who basically admits, as we'll see, like, that she's not going to be probably a regular on Summer House. She'll pop in, but she won't be a regular. You have Carl with who does nothing. Kyle and Amanda, who'll have the same old fights and talks about whatever. Jesse and. And west pretty good. Sierra's all right, you know, but, like, there's not going to be a lot to carry the show. I mean, Paige did a lot of heavy lifting. And I think this is a bad time for this to happen because the youth oriented shows, you know, you got Vanderpump rules coming back. In whatever form, it's going to come back. And then, you know, the audience isn't going to accept it. You just know that right off the bat, the audience is going to reject. No matter how good it is, the audience is going to reject it. Now, Summerhouse without Paige, I think this is tough. This is a tough time for Bravo.

[Ronnie Karam]

Bravo's going through it, that's for sure. Bravo's having a rough time of it, but, you know, we're. We're fans, so we hope for the best. You know what? Prepare for the best.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch for the best.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's it.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, when they got rid of the workers twins, we're like, how will the show go on? And look where we are now. It's.

[Ronnie Karam]

There was that moment because you know what? Say what you want about the workers twins. They were entertaining crazy people. Carl, Carl.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they were like the show. Carl, Carl, Carl, Carl, Carl, Carl.

[Ronnie Karam]

We didn't know how all that. The. The first cast leaving, you know, Stephen, the workus twins, the, you know, when Lindsay broke up with what's his buns. Yeah. Christina. We never, you know, shows can go on. It's not like it's destined to die, but it's destined to die if they go in the direction of casting that they have been. Which is like, let's get like, really, like silly influencers who only care about influencing, you know, even though that's kind of what Paige is. But Paige is more than that. I get that everybody they get now is going to be an influencer in some way, but I don't know, they need someone, like, really snarky and funny to fill these shoes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Because I think so much of the appeal of Summer House really started to come down to the fact that, like, stuff would happen in the house and then basically, like, Paige would go gossip about it with a friend. And that friend at first was Hannah, then it became Sierra, but now it's like Sierra and it's not going to be Sierra and Sierra and. And Lexi. Maybe they could center Gabby a little bit more because Gabby kind of does have that vibe and she's always been kind of like put off to the side that that, like, you know, Gabby could rise that challenge.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, the other rum. Gabby's out too. So the rumor is that they're firing.

[Ben Mandelker]

She did so much this season, though.

[Ronnie Karam]

No, she did a lot of hand holding literally through this reunion. But they did. The rumors are getting rid of Lexi, Gabby, Emerl and.

[Ben Mandelker]

Emeril, the other one. They didn't even let him do the whole reunion. That was the most on cast member and they didn't even let him do the.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, we talked about it last week when you were gone. Welcome home, by the way, to Summerhouse.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you.

[Ronnie Karam]

For those of you who only listen to Summer House, but. And we talked about it last week, how they're like, emeril, I'm so sorry. Only the only thing anybody ever talked about was your sexuality. Was that hurtful for you? And he's like, oh, yeah, I got, you know, blacklisted for my family parties about my kids, my niece's party, my nephew's party. Because they just looked at me as like, whore. Emeril, that whore never invited him again. They're like, oh, my God, Poor Emerald. Okay, Emeril, so what about the threesome? And did you stick your penis in Jesse's butthole? Okay, thanks, Emeril. Thanks for coming. See you later. They never asked you about anything else?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I mean, because he said, like, I think a mistake was, for me, was just, like, opening up with that sex party. And that just, like, really set a tone. I'm like, it was your choice to go to a sex party instead of the first week of filming on a TV show that you're so lucky to be on. And we've had a few messages from people who are like, I know Imran. He's, like, actually really nice, and he's, like, raising a charity to build a school in Bangladesh. I'm like, that's fine.

[Ronnie Karam]

But then Gavin is built out of sperm.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, then don't spend your first week on a platform going to a sex party instead. Sorry.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, no one. No one on this show has ever said, Emeril seems mean. I mean, Emeril's a very nice guy. And actually, I think the biggest shock to us that he was a nice guy, because he came in on the motorcycle, he did, like, the full. He got the full douchebag treatment, and he, you know, presented himself that way, and I was shocked that he wasn't a douchebag. He was actually a fairly nice guy. Just boring, you know, like a school in Bangladesh. Great. That's great. I'm not even gonna be sarcastic about it. That's cool that he does that. But that's still not a storyline on the Summer House. You need to have some messiness. So I don't know.

[Ben Mandelker]

He was.

[Ronnie Karam]

No hate for him. It just didn't work.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, he just didn't bond with the rest of the cast. And he can say, oh, they made me look like I was just, like, a man whore when I only brought back a few girls and, like, nothing out of, you know, crazy. I guarantee, if Emeril was making real relationships with people, Bravo would have. Would have showcased that because, you know, they know they can only have Carl and Kyle for so much longer. They can keep Kyle for a while. Carl is like. Like, I don't. Carl is kind of, like, running on fumes at this point. And I think they are always interested in fostering new talent on this show because it's really hard. They would have done that if they could have. I don't think Emeril gave them anything to work with, to be honest. So I'm gonna put that one on Emeril and not the editors. But I also want to say something. Since I wasn' here to comment on it last week, I just want to say I know it's old news. I hate this set. This was the worst reunion set they've ever done. The stupid, like, oversized bed party. Sorry, I'm. I hated every aspect of it. The white. The white bed frame. Like, you could do a slumber party thing, but not like this. This was terrible. I was mortified for everyone involved.

[Ronnie Karam]

I thought the idea was cute. But you're. You're. First of all, having a party called Snooze Fest. Not good. And we were saying last week, like, they couldn't exactly call it Bedbugs because it's, like, too soon. Like, New York really had to go through that. So that's too soon. But Snooze Fest, and then to name, like, to theme your reunion, that's actually really boring. Snooze Fest is not. Maybe not the best.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

But. Yeah. And then the pastels, they just look so silly. All the group pictures look pretty silly. It's like Easter's done, you know, I'm.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm sad that this is how Paige had to go out on the stupid set with, like, comforters. And it was. I was very unhappy with that.

[Ronnie Karam]

She went out first seat in bed. She's fine, you know, and she. No one called her on anything because she didn't really do anything mean or shitty this year. And this was also one of Paige's best reunions. Because I feel like Paige's biggest mistake. Well, I don't know if I'd call it a mistake because it's probably the most entertaining. She is. But it's also weird is how she does this whiplash thing every year where she's one way during the season and has very few problems. And then she shows up at the reunion and just rips everybody to shreds.

[Ben Mandelker]

And it's like, who the hell?

[Ronnie Karam]

What the hell's happening? And it's entertaining every time, but it's also like, where the fuck did that come from? She always kind of overshoots the reunion and this time she didn't. She just came in. She was, you know, she had her own offline story line, off camera storyline for the most part offline. And she did a good one. So I think for her it was good. It just wasn't a great reunion in general.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Well, maybe. Maybe she was unhappy with Craig all that time and it was just coming out at the reunion, projecting it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh. Or maybe it's just that everything's Craig and blame Craig for everything.

[Ben Mandelker]

Of course.

[Ronnie Karam]

Tariffs, Craig.

[Ben Mandelker]

Craig 100. I heard that Craig is the one who gave Trump the idea about the tariffs. So I will blame. I will blame Craig. That was me. I was in the mamas. No, but seriously, I think that she probably was. She did not overshoot like she was because she was in bed. She wasn't in a. I think in the past she was just in a chair and uncomfortable. She's like, why are we sitting in chairs when these could all be beds? And now she's in a bed and she's like much more pleasant.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. But, yeah, overall, I don't see Sierra really carrying this with anybody else. But you never know.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, yeah, hopefully they'll figure it out, but it's gonna be. They're really losing. God, I hope they don't bring back Danielle. Please don't. Please don't give us a Danielle salvo. That's not what we need. They've had a hard time finding new women on the show for a while. Like, they haven't had a good new female casting since really since Paige and since Sierra was the last good female casting and Sierra took a little while to warm up. It took like three seasons for Sierra to become interesting.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yeah, I don't know. I think they did. I think maybe this was all the plan anyway. They knew the cast was going to age out and so they started prepping early. They got Jesse and West in there and they've. They're the elders now and they're just going to start building around them is what I think. Because Kyle and Amanda, I mean, you know, look, we like them and everything, but there's just too much they showed at the end of this. They were like. And coming up and they never before seen footage and it's Kyle and Amanda, like, come. You're not ready to have a baby. Are we going to have a baby? I was like, no, no one needs this for another year. So I think that the whole plan is to bring on the slightly younger.

[Ben Mandelker]

Still douchey set, which I'm fine with. I'm just saying, like, I get nervous because casting on Summer House is always so hit or miss because when it misses, it misses so hardcore. Like, it's. They. They miss. So, I mean, their duds are some of the biggest duds on Bravo, but when they hit, they hit so well. So it's always. You never really know what's going to happen in a season.

[Ronnie Karam]

You never know.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they don't have time. And by the way, they don't. And they don't have the luxury of other shows of saying, like, we're going to take a little bit more time to figure out the cast chemistry because they are on a truly seasonal schedule. Like, they have to be in that house by July. So they only have so much time before they. To figure out the cast chemistry before they start shooting, which is probably why they do have these hits and misses.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I think they've probably already figured it out because it starts shooting in a month, so they've probably already got everything set.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bailey, you're up again.

[Ronnie Karam]

Bailey's back.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, well, let's pick.

[Ronnie Karam]

Just put all the people that have flopped on Summer House. Maybe if you give them all another chance, they'll all come back and do okay. You know, bring back Jules, bring back Alex, bring back Maya. Yeah, bring them all back.

[Ben Mandelker]

The guy from season two.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, let's not even put that out there.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, So I would welcome back Christina Gibson. I've always loved reporter Christina Gibson reporting at large. But, you know, she's in Palm beach now with a baby, so we'll never see her again on tv.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, yeah, she's done. So let's see here. Where are we waking up? Where we left off. Sierra confronting Lexi about her press tour. So she's like, yeah, like what you illustrated in the media. Lexi, like, painting a picture that me and Jesse are, like, doing whatever, like, manipulative or whatever to, like, rub it in your face like, what the fuck? And she's like, but, like, Jesse orchestrates all this stuff and then he does it all summer to me. Like, he specifically, like, pitted me against you three. Okay. But we didn't see that from the girls, and we didn't really see that from you. We only saw you and Jesse interacting the whole summer. So whose fault is this? Like, at some point it's like, are you just a dumbass that you're going to believe everything that some guy tells you? Because. Because you were nice to those girls and they were nice to you.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, yeah, I think, like, I 100% believe that. I think that Jesse is Sort of manipulative in this, like, fuck boy way.

[Ronnie Karam]

I do, too.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he. And he definitely says things that made her, like, maybe more suspicious of the girls, like, or. Or suspect that there was more animosity than that was there. But what I don't like about Lexi is that she really takes herself out of the equation here. It's fine for her to say, you know, Jesse filled me with thoughts that you guys didn't like me. And I was trying to push against that. And, like, I really. It was my bad because I didn't actually do, like, do the work with my own eyes to see, like, our relationships. I let someone else influence me. Like, she never really said that. She just was like, he pitted me against us. Like, he pitted us against each other. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't even think that he pitted. I think that he just is. Well, he did pit. I actually do think he bit. I take it back. He pitted. There was. There was true pit happening. But I also think that he does it in a way where he. I think he just likes to take himself out of responsibility for. For conversations he has and therefore come. It turns into pitting. If that makes sense. Like, if he has. If he's gossipy with the girls about. About Lexi and he, like, if he has a conversation with the girls and says she's a little, like, jealous, then he. Then they react and he goes and he brings the information back to her and then removes himself out of it. So, like, I don't think he's doing it to pit necessarily. You know what? Why am I even bothering trying to figure out why?

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, I think he is. I think what you're saying is right. He's going to the girls and saying, that girl's jealous. And then the girls are saying, he's. She's jealous, so watch out. And then he's going back to her and saying, oh, my God, the girls think you're just jealous. You know? So I. The problem in all of this is that saying anything that Lexi did wrong sounds like standing up for Jesse. Jesse's a douchebag, a liar and a piece of shit. So I want to just get that out. I don't. I think Jesse sucks. I ain't ever gonna listen to his music. I hate his stupid mouth. I hate his. I hate everything. Okay? Jesse sucks. That said, Lexi also sucks, and I think Lexi gets away with a lot because Jesse sucks so much and she's just doing everything. The question in all of this is, why are you Going to the press and making me look bad. When the season ended, you told me you don't trust me, and Jesse broke up with you, and now you're making it look like you had this birthday party that we ditched to go out together, which was a lie. Anyway. She had a birthday party on the 21st. They went to brunch on the 22nd. Jesse never even posted pictures of Sierra's face. He just posted pictures of food. But Lexi was like, oh, my God. They went to lunch the day after my birthday, but then went on all these podcasts saying, oh, my God. They both ditched my birthday party and went out together instead to. To make me feel bad. And that's shitty. That's shitty of Lexi to do it. So even now when she's being called out, she's playing this like. But it's because Chelsea manipulated me. It's like, oh, my God, are you an idiot? So now. So now you want to get off the hook because you're just too stupid. And also, your lie is completely clear that brunch was the next day, and you broke up with him, and you told her you didn't trust him, so why would she go? Lexi, yeah, she really.

[Ben Mandelker]

She really messed this one up because she really. She did a great job with breaking up with him on the show. Like, I loved the way that she broke up with him, but I don't think it was necessary for her afterwards to tell Sierra, I don't trust you because of what he said. I was like, well, this is the time when you actually want to, like, build up your alliances and your friendships. Like, this is when you. You go towards the women that you feel like you were kind of held back from because of him. Not like, maybe she was trying to say, hey, like, the reason why we're not close is because he made me feel like I shouldn't trust you. But the truth is, like, it was on him or whatever. She didn't really quite say that. And then, like you said, she went on this press tour. It's like, you're really messing it up. You're really showing your ass, too, in this, unfortunately. And you could have actually emerged from this being, like, you could have risen from this, and we all would have actually rallied around you, and we'd have been like, oh, my God, I want to see the. The side Alexi that we didn't get to see yet. I'm ready for season two with her. But instead, it's like, oh, no, you're just another influencer.

[Ronnie Karam]

You're Just thirsty for. For click.

[Ben Mandelker]

Trying to get attention.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, you're trying to like get headline clicks out there at someone else's expense and do it to Jesse all you want, but Sierra's like, don't do it to me. I didn't do it. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Ben Mandelker]

Every successful business starts with an idea.

[Misha Brown]

And on the best idea yet, we're obsessed with those light bulb moments. Like how a bored barista invented the frappuccino during his downtime and then it got acquired by Starbucks.

[Ben Mandelker]

Or how Patagonia's iconic fleece was inspired by a toilet seat cover.

[Misha Brown]

On the best idea yet, we dive into the untold origin stories behind the products you're obsessed with, and the bold risk takers made them go viral. These are the wild ideas and insights that made Birkenstock the best selling sandals since Jesus and made Super Mario the most played video game in the history of attention span.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, Nintendo almost became a ramen company.

[Ronnie Karam]

Until Super Mario saved it.

[Misha Brown]

New episodes drop every Tuesday. Follow the best idea yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. And if this podcast lets you than 45 minutes, call your doctor.

[Lindsay Hubbard]

At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks both recognizable and unrecognizable names about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up, they connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

[Ronnie Karam]

So she's like, yeah, but he manipulated me, so sorry. And she goes, okay, but like, just be careful of the picture you paint because like, I don't care about birthdays, okay? I didn't even go to pages 30th and Paige is like, that's true. Well, that's rude. The fuck is wrong with you? All right, now let's stop on Sierra. How do you not go to your best friend's 30th birthday party? That's fucking rude. Geez.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. He's like, all right, I gotta move on.

[Kyle Cook]

Okay, Lexi, I'm trying to get a sense of where you're at with Jesse. Are you mad at him?

[Ben Mandelker]

Really, Andy? Are you at your own reunion?

[Kyle Cook]

She's like, yeah, I am mad at him. And guess who else is my entire family. Okay? There was so much playing people against each other. Like, he made it seem like you three girls didn't even like me. And you're doing great, honey.

[Ronnie Karam]

You're doing great. Here's a little lip liner. Okay, Mom.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thanks.

[Ronnie Karam]

Just reaching under the seat where her mom is.

[Ben Mandelker]

A hand comes up between the cushions. It's just Tiffany. Wait, did they even. Did Andy even press Lexi on her relationship with her family last week? I don't remember. How do we not talk about this?

[Ronnie Karam]

This is. How do you not ask about the creepiest family on tv? Hey, why do you have a podcast with your mom called 6 and 9? That's weird. And about your sex tapes and. And why are you. You sleeping with your mom? And why is your sister and your mom at a sex club with your boyfriend at 4 in the morning? What the.

[Ben Mandelker]

We didn't need a segment of Kyle and Amanda talking about whether or not they're gonna have a baby. No one cared about that. It wasn't even really discussed that much on the show. Why are we doing that instead of asking about this crazy family? That's what I want to know.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I want the family on so we can ask the mom, the dad, and the sister why they're living off their baby. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

How about that? So Lexi is basically saying, like, yeah, you mean turn the girls against me or made me turn against the girls? And she's like, you know, then you.

[Kyle Cook]

Like, made me cling on to him. He, like, made me cling on to him, like, even more because, like, then I was like, oh, shit. Like, you're the only person than I actually feel like I have in this house.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm like, I. Again, I can see how he. He. He played those emotional cards, make her feel that way. But also, like, why don't you go out there and try to talk with him? And then you can see for real whether or not what he said was. Was true.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's using. I think what's kind of bugging me is she's kind of using, abusive. Like, she's using abuser language, like, isolation. You know, she's like, you isolated me from all of my friends so that you could have more control over me in this way. And I think, you know, I think she's skating, and Jesse's like, what the hell? Like, you're making it sound like I'm this big, manipulative mastermind. And Sierra goes, yeah, you're not smart. And so I think that's kind of what I need more of from Lexi. Like, we need the women to know that these men are douchebags and be able to handle them instead of being, like, in their own lifetime movie. It's Jesse, okay? If Jesse is in a lifetime movie, I think the worst it's going to be about is his. Him killing our eardrums with his terrible music and bad dad jokes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes. I mean, look, I do think that Jesse was overbearing, and I do think he's manipulative, etc. And I think there probably is some truth to that. I don't think he was, like, a. Like an evil mastermind, but I do think that he was. He does sort of get off and kind of like, you know, telling different people different things in the house, bring the information back and forth. I think it. Like, it centers him in the drama, and I think that he does get off on that. But, yeah, he's definitely not. He's definitely not like the husband in Sleeping with the enemy for sure.

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, I don't. I don't think. I just think that they both do. That they both want to be with somebody who's all about them, who only talks to them, who's. If he talks to anybody else, it's like, oh, my God. How could you make me feel that way? He says he likes boobs. She's like, oh, my God. That's my biggest sense insecurity. He said, you know, they both do this thing where they're like, how could you be talking to the girls like that Instead of talking to me? They both kind of do this thing where it's like, why aren't you with me? Why aren't you with me? And then, of course, it blows up in both of their faces. Oh, my God, I'm so glad.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's also probably really mad. And she's probably also really mad because she's like, oh, like, this show is about, like, girls hanging out in bed and gossiping. And I didn't get to do that because I spent all my time with this guy, and now I'm not, like, really the center of the show in that way. And I'm, like, mad at him about that.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, because they weren't like the center couple, because normally the. The main couple gets all the attention, and then the main breakup gets all the attention, and it just blew up in her face, you know? And I know that she watched the show before she came on it, you know, of course she did. And she knows that the girls already had that relationship, so she had the most. She had the path to choose. When she came in, she could have been, like, one of the cool girls, hung out with them, casually dated somebody, but instead, she chose, like, I'm gonna go straight for the center relationship and breakup storyline of the season. And it's just. And now she's in the middle of the couch. And it makes me laugh that Jessica and her both got stuck in the middle of the couch. I'm never gonna get over it. I think it's one of the great Bravo wins of the season that they didn't give them first place.

[Ben Mandelker]

I know there was really no reason for Colin Amanda to be first. First notch on this reunion. I'm sorry. They did not deserve that spot. So Paige is like, jesse, did you say to her, like, don't be friends with the girls? Because that would be hilarious. And Jesse's like, no, I wanted you to be friends. I mean, why would I not want you to be friends with them? And I do believe that he did want that. I think that Jesse likes everyone to be friends. But the thing is, he may believe that he wants her to be friends, but then I do believe that he wanted to spend, like, every second with her. And so he didn't. He did kind of suffocate her. And so, like, to her, that read as like, you don't want me to. You're not letting me spend time with people. So whatever.

[Ronnie Karam]

Whatever. I think. I think they're mutual suffocators. I think they're two little kids playing with dry cleaning bags over each other's heads, and, you know, they're both gonna go at the end of the day. So Wes tries to stand up for him, and he's like, wait, so did Jesse say to not be friends with them, like Amanda, Paige, and Sierra, but do be friends with Gabby and Lindsay because you did make friends, so he didn't isolate you from everybody. And she's like, well, he said that they're trying to break us up, and they don't like us being together. And he goes, well, but those three and not these two. And I think what he's getting at is like, Gabby is actively trying to get you to break up. So what do you mean? Like, how are you saying you're isolated when you've got plenty of friends in the house? I think is what he means. And she's like, well, but, like, he seemed like he knew so much and knew how to, like, move his way, you know? And, like, all you guys did love him so much.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, yeah. He tried to big dog you because it was his second season. That was your first season. Pathetic. I'm on season seven. I'm gonna leave you. So Lexi's like, yeah.

[Kyle Cook]

And I was, like, completely alone because, like, Emerald, you're in and, like, yeah, I mean, you're just. You, like, pouring it up.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, she's like, you're supposed to be my ally. We're supposed to be newbies together. And, like, you just were doing your thing.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Paige is like, well, he's a guy, so it's different to fit in. And he's like, yeah. I mean, obviously we didn't connect the same way, you know? And like, you said, Toegate happened, and then it was, like, this whole big thing. And she's like, yeah, so, like, I definitely cling to Jesse 100. And, like, he says it's miscommunication, but, like, I was, like, very gaslit and, like, I was very isolated and manipulated and, like, all of those things, like, it's been, like, heartbreaking. It's been, like, literally heartbreaking.

[Ben Mandelker]

Maybe she's just mad at herself because maybe she clings on to too many life rafts. You know, she's got her. She is still clinging on to her family. And in her mind, it's like, we love each other so much. We always want to be around each other, but maybe that's actually more of a safety line than it is, like, really any more. More than just, like, oh, my God, we love being with each other. I mean, I'm sure they love being with each other, but it is a safety net. It's something very comforting and secure. And so when she meets Jesse and he's all about her, Jesse is something, like, comforting and secure. So she clings onto that and doesn't meet other people. But then I think on some level, she may know that, like, this is her pattern. And she's, like, probably frustrated that she fell into this.

[Ronnie Karam]

I don't know. Just saying someone else is suffocating. You literally asked for a commitment the first day and then introduced him to your family the second date. I mean, you're both suffocators you're. You're equal suffocators.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but when she says, I clung on to Jesse 100, we'll stop clinging on to people.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes, that's clinging. So then Paige is like, okay, but like, nobody didn't like you, though. Like, I hope, like, you didn't feel like we didn't like you. Like, we don't like you now, but, like, we did like you then. Does that make sense? I know it's hard to follow the timelines, but, like, we did like you and tell you we did like you.

[Ben Mandelker]

We were so impressed with the number of likes and subscribes that you had. We were like, this girl's gonna be great. But then you didn't really hang out, so it was like we were unliked and unsubscribed. So I just want you to know that, like, we did like you for a small window of time.

[Ronnie Karam]

Time. It's just so funny how that's how I felt about that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sorry, Are you allergic? Are you allergic to this Lexi storyline?

[Ronnie Karam]

I think it's so funny how I was like, Team Lexi 100% until she started coming for Sierra. And now I'm like Lexi and she's a suffocator. Like, once I saw it turn to a girl I like, I'm like, that's not cool. That girl didn't do anything to you. So now I see you. But as far as the stuff she's saying about Jesse, I mean, I get it. I'm not going to stand up for Jesse. So then Amanda's like, oh, my God, I wish that you, like, texted me or told me or something because I didn't know. I said, yeah, but I was, like, really gas and, like, abused. So Jesse's like, well, and, you know, look, and the guys are such wusses too, because the guys come on here and now all they do is they're practiced Bravo apologies where they're like, well, yeah, I could have been better. And now that I see how I was taken, like, I really got to work on myself. And I would like him, whether he's right or wrong, to at least just say what he's really thinking and stop with these lie, these lie apologies and just be like, what are you talking about? You suffocated me too. You said this about the girls. You said this about him. Like, why is it all on me? I kind of need a little more fight back from Jesse, and I feel like all he's doing is just saying sorry so the audience will stop leaving him mean tweets. And stuff. And it's like, grow a pair, dude.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm not sure he even understands really what happened still. I think he was, like, just really head over heels for her, but his own garbage got in the way of his relationship. And he still is like, but why. Why this even happened this way? He's like, I don't know. So he's like.

[Kyle Cook]

Can I honestly just say, like, both of you, like, really liked each other, and, like, even though you would, like, break up and get back together, it was, like, so clear they ever. The funny man and the moly. You're really into this thing. And, like, for a myriad of reasons.

[Ben Mandelker]

And I'm like, wow, she used myriad. I'm surprised that everyone. Everyone on the stage was like, myriad. What? What's that?

[Ronnie Karam]

I know. I was waiting for them to just, like, pause everything and just put on Jeopardy music while we watched everybody try and figure that out.

[Ben Mandelker]

Lindsey Dale Hubbard, will you marry me? For a myriad of reasons.

[Ronnie Karam]

Lindsay Dale Hubbard, you just got the myriad contract. So she's like, yeah, you know, I think Lindsay's like, well, I think that you were, like, worried that he was making you look stupid, and he was worried that you were making him look stupid. And in the end, you were just worried about what other people thought, and you were just worried about metrics, basically, which Lindsay gets. Lindsay almost married Carl for the. The influence.

[Ben Mandelker]

Influencer Marshall's paycheck. So, Andy, everyone's, like, clapping. Everyone's like, wow, Lindsay. Lindsay with the therapy is finally kicking in. He's like, wow. Hey. And even girl's clapping for you. Carl's like, y' all. It was actually, like, really good. It was a really good. It's a really good read. I was. What I liked about it was that you. It was. It was nice, but it was also soft. It was a soft read. I liked it, actually.

[Ronnie Karam]

I was just saying the same thing last week. And, like, shut up, Carl. Shut up, Kyle. And like, how can she say. But I can't say I said it first. And they're like, kyle, when you said it, it was mansplaining, so shut up.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I wasn't running your thunder. I'm just saying I did your thunder better, so. And he's like, all right, well, do.

[Kyle Cook]

The two of you see a possibility of a friendship in the future?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I tried to create a friendship with Lexi, so I feel like we never really got the opportunity need to do that over the summer, so it's not really my decision.

[Kyle Cook]

Okay. What about you, Lexi?

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I'm Good.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm good. So he's like, okay, well, your storyline's over. Okay, bye, Emerald. Don't know why you're still here. Thank you. Round of applause for Emerald on his penis. Goodbye, Emerald. Bye.

[Kyle Cook]

Apparently, we have someone here named Emeril who is gonna.

[Ben Mandelker]

We're gonna say goodbye to him.

[Kyle Cook]

Is that a PA who worked for us? Thank you for your three months of service. Pa no, it's not.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, it's a cast member.

[Kyle Cook]

Emeril.

[Ronnie Karam]

Are you sure? He's not a pa. But he probably is a pa. Okay, let's take a break, everybody. So they go on break, and then Lexi reaches over to Sierra, and she's like, I'm truly sorry. Like, I really didn't mean for you to get caught in the crossfire. Like, he just, like, did so many things that made me feel like you were into him. And she keeps doing this thing. But then she goes on Nick Vile in like, a week or two to say all the same against Sierra that she was saying before. So, no. Bye, Lexi.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, so then Kyle is talking to Jesse backstage.

[Ronnie Karam]

All right.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Jesse's like, I don't know, dude. She's projecting. What? She's feeling that. And I just never did that. Yeah, it sucks. You want a lover boy? All right, so then meanwhile, Lexi's talking to girls, and she's like, yeah, I'm.

[Kyle Cook]

Just, like, really, really sorry, Sierra.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Sierra's like, yeah, yeah, okay, I appreciate that. I just hate press and I hate media. Probably never gonna talk to you again. Yeah, I just want to reassert all summer, like, 1,000%.

[Kyle Cook]

We were like, we like Lexi.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's so interesting. We probably will never talk to her, but she's a cool thought experiment all.

[Kyle Cook]

Summer long is what we felt.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Lexi's like, yeah, but because he was, like, pitting us against each other, like, off camera, like, I really did think that you didn't like me. Lexi, if you sense that they didn't like you, let me tell you something. They didn't like you. They didn't. I don't care what they say on the show. That they're like, we did like you, Lexi. And I don't think they were ever mean to Lexi, but I don't think they like Lexi. I think they looked at Lexi like a dumb twit who just came and made her whole life about some man. And they were like, okay, just be nice to the new girl, you know, I think they look at her as, like, kind of a young dummy, and they're like, okay, here comes this new girl on our show. Let's be nice to her. Like, let's not mean girl her. And just watched her dig a hole with this douchebag. And they told her he's a douchebag, but they let her do it. And then they're just all kind of watching. But I don't think they really liked her either.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think they had the same impression that the audience had, which is like, who is this child who is in this house now? Because Lexi's only like two or three years younger than, than some of the other cast members, but she reads as like a little teenager. And I think it's not just that she's small in stature. I think it's. It's truly the energy she puts out, the way she talks, the way she. She handles herself. And it just is not a culture fit with the house. And I think that was the big issue. And I think you're right. I think they made a conscious effort to not be a mean girl to her because they don't, they don't want to be that way. But you could tell no one really connected with Lexi, and it's not really Jesse's fault.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, agreed. So I don't think they did like her, but they were as nice, too, as they had to be. And so now she's upset because she's kind of failed on all levels here. And so Gabby, you know, who doesn't really do great with this cast either, just sits there and holds her hand now for the next hour and she's like, you did great. You did great. Like, he's not even worth one single tear. Don't you worry about it. You kill that. It's like.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Gabby's holding her hand and like, you're not, you're not even joking every time. They're not even talking about Lexi or anything pertaining to Lexi. And they'll cut to Lexi and you see Gabby still holding her hand like, you got this. You got this. I want to have a baby. You got this, Lexi. You got this.

[Ronnie Karam]

You got this. Like, Lexi just went through war, okay? Like, they're acting like Lexi just came back from a six year tour. And it's like, girl, you had a bad relationship with a douchebag. Why are we acting like this is going to traumatize you for life? She's like, oh, my God, I need all the support I can get. Jesse's not even saying anything.

[Ben Mandelker]

You did traumatize her. Playing it did traumatize her. Remember when they Broke up. She was like, I can't trust people.

[Kyle Cook]

Anymore because of you.

[Ronnie Karam]

This morning I thought someone stole my lip liner. Oh, I did take it, honey, but it was no. No harm, no foul. Here you go. Oh, thanks, Mom.

[Ben Mandelker]

You got this, Lexi. You got your lip liner back. You can do the rest. So Andy's.

[Ronnie Karam]

You earned that lip liner. You should be called line lipper because you're so supportive of that goddamn lip liner.

[Ben Mandelker]

You got this.

[Ronnie Karam]

Got it.

[Kyle Cook]

All right, well, we're back on the gag from Summer House. Okay, we're not even gonna do it. Fun and games to kick off our second episode. All right, history has proven that you don't ever want to see Lindsay Hubbard activated. We will not show a clip of that because we have to cram everything.

[Ben Mandelker]

Else in in the Latinx 45 minutes.

[Kyle Cook]

So after showing up. Yeah, she's pregnant. She's pregnant. So.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, hey, mouse from Massachusetts says, okay, Jesse, care to explain your stink face reaction to Lindsay being pregnant? And he's like, I mean, I think Lexi knows, like, we were super happy. I was just surprised. Like, I mean, a minute ago, she's ready to marry Carl, and now Summer, she shows up and she's pregnant by another guy. I was just, like, surprised.

[Ben Mandelker]

You got this, Lexi. You got it, Lexi. It's okay. You got it, Lexi.

[Ronnie Karam]

Jesse's like, yeah, but also, it's like your story. It was like, four score and eight years ago, we did this and this. I was like, where the fuck is this going? Okay, person releasing a new useless song every day on Instagram. I don't think you're the one to get to criticize how much nonsensical BS people are piping into the feed.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Misha Brown]

Every big moment starts with a big dream. But what happens when that big dream turns out to be a big flop? From Wondery and ill Media, I'm Misha Brown, and this. This is the Big Flop. Every week, comedians join me to chronicle the biggest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. Like Quibi.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's kind of like when you give yourself your own nickname and you try to, like, get other people to do it.

[Misha Brown]

And the 2019 movie adaptation of Cats.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, if I'm watching the dancing and I'm noticing the feet aren't touching the ground, there's something wrong with the movie.

[Misha Brown]

Find out what happens when massive hype turns into major fiasco. Enjoy the Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to the Big Flop early and ad free on wondery plus get started with your free [e-mail] plus.

[Kyle Cook]

Well, Carl, when you heard about Lindsay's announcement, you thought what?

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, I was happy for her. I was surprised. I mean, I'm taking one day at a time. It was a lot for me. It's a lot. But yeah, I was like, legitimately happy for her. Especially, as you can see, when I was like, you know, basically questioning, like, her and seeing how she was really humiliated. It was like a baby of humiliation. It's a. It's a. It's an embarrassing baby. But I heard about the rumors and the things and I'm just praying for her. I'm praying for her. I'm so happy for her that I pray for her every day.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, I'm genuinely happy for her and her embarrassment, baby. So.

[Kyle Cook]

All right. Battery Duracell battery from Best Buy says you were nice to Carl's face. But Gabby, that first weekend. But then you had a lot to say about him behind his back. Were you trying to make Lindsay feel better? Do you really feel Carl contributes nothing to the house?

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, my God, this flashback was horrible. They show Gabby talking to Lindsay and she's like, stupid Carl. This stupid hair, those big stupid teeth. What even are those? Was he a beaver? Was he building a dam? His stupid teeth. And his eyes, what are they made out of? Buttons. Buttons that are made out of poop. Ooh, I hate him. And he smells. Ew. He's like a broken down van missing a wheel. Gross. Who wants to be with Carl? Disgusting.

[Ben Mandelker]

He wakes up at 7am to go to Barry's boot camp. More like Barry's stupid camp, okay? Because he's only getting stupid every time he comes back. Gross.

[Ronnie Karam]

So we come back and Gabby's like, I was just like, trying to gas up my girlfriend. Because that's what you got this. Lexi, don't worry about it, okay? You got this. And like, where I'm from, like, you stand up for your girlfriends by dissing the guy. But, you know, I do call Carl. You know, I like him. Like, he's. I feel bad about it. I apologize to his teeth. Like, I called his teeth. They have their own burner phone, which is crazy. But I did call them and I apologize to them.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. You know, the best part about his teeth is that I always know if my hair looks good. Cause I can always just check it out in the reflection. And so Carl's like, y' all. She actually texted me about that moment, which I really appreciated. Uh, she sent me an emoji of a tooth and Then an emoji of an up arrow, which I think meant big teeth. And I think that was an apology. I'm not really sure. Actually.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, she sent me a teeth emoji followed by a lady that was cleaning. Oh. Like, teeth made. So I was like, wow, my teeth are really made now. Like, she likes my teeth now. She's like, I meant your teeth need the cleaning, but you're welcome. Did you ever.

[Ben Mandelker]

Did you ever think about that? If you line up, like, a bunch of iPhones and have them all take, like, a flash photo together, it sort of looks like Carl's teeth? No. So Carl is like, y' all. She's, like, cool. And, like. I mean, definitely, like, I was, like, a little disappointed right here. A lot. Like, you know, more about the tea thing, because it's. You know, it's probably on me because, like, I don't think you're all fully aware my teeth are. Well, I've had dental issues since I was 8 years old. I got hit in the face with tartar in the shape of a hockey stick for my bottle. My brother. My brother hit me in the face with a hockey stick. And I took a baseball to the face after that. And after that, a frisbee to the face, football to the face, A tree of the face, another baseball, hockey, another hockey stick. Ice skate went to the zoo. A koala fell on my face. A lot of things hit my face, broke my teeth.

[Ronnie Karam]

I love the Carl. Carl's sad monologue moment. Cue up the violin. He's like, I've always been insecure about my teacher teeth. Once I ate an apple, and I bit right into the seed.

[Ben Mandelker]

Ow.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ow. Once. One time, I got popcorn kernels stuck in my teeth.

[Ben Mandelker]

One time, I was like, hey, Bob, look, before you add that butter to the popcorn, let's put on my teeth instead. And then my teeth are yellow ever since then. It's a lot. I'm really insecure about it.

[Ronnie Karam]

But he talks about how much it sucks because his whole first season, he was made fun of for his yellow teeth. Okay, guilty. We're guilty. Okay, I'm gonna just confess. I know that was us, but our joke was that you were selling dental equipment and you had, like, brown teeth. Like, our only point was brush your teeth. And he's like, come on, guys. I mean, back in season one, I was brushing my teeth with a comb, and then they showed a clip of him brushing his teeth with a comb. I didn't even remember that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, really? We did, I think, lay a lot of trauma for this Cast because we were the only ones recapping the show, watching it, so they heard everything that we. We said. And, like, there was. I made some really catty comment once about Lindsay's boobs, and then she, like, mentioned it.

[Kyle Cook]

Like, someone said that my boobs like this.

[Ben Mandelker]

And I was like, oh, that was me. But. But the truth is this. We never made fun of the shape of Carl's teeth or the fact, like, we just made fun of the fact that they were yellow, which is, by the way, something you. You can do something about it with the own. With the supplies that you're selling. Okay? Because guess what? I have, like, yellow teeth, too. And then I went. I brushed my teeth, and then it's fixed, you know?

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, that was kind of the joke was it's like, you're. He's not a good salesman, right? Because that was Carl's storyline, the whole first. Until really now it's probably still his storyline that he keeps getting these jobs where he's not really doing a good job. He's a salesman, but he's not selling it. And we're like, well, this is one of the reasons you can't be selling, like, yellow teeth, you know? Anyway, that was really rude. But I think the deeper point is, to anybody on these shows, don't listen to this or anybody. Like, you shouldn't be listening. The Internet is so fucking horrible and mean. And I would never talk like this to somebody's face. I do it because I'm talking to my best friend on the phone, basically.

[Ben Mandelker]

But you listen. You were not saying it to someone's face. You were saying it to someone's charter. Okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

Right. And I know I'm not arrogant enough to really think he's talking about us. I just mean that I was one of those people who had those conversations. But stop being traumatized by the audience. Like, how are you still on this show and listening to the audience? I think the only people who can last on shows like this are the people who are like, I don't listen to that shit. Like, someone said, Stevie Nicks. This is so random. But Stevie Nicks was talking about how she had a conversation with Katy Perry, and Katy Perry was like, oh, my God. But, like, how do you deal with people being mean to you on the Internet? And she's like, I don't have the fucking Internet. What do I care? I'm not on Twitter. And then she's like, yeah, but, like, who are your rivals? Because, you know, like, if so and so says something bad about me, and then I say something back, it'll get like, all this engagement, and she's like, I don't have rivals. That's an Internet thing. Girl, get off the Internet and live your life. Like, get over yourself. You know? And I fucking love Stevie Nicks. Anyway, but I hope anybody on these shows listens to Stevie Nicks, because don't put yourself in the line of fire like that. People are monsters, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So be more like Stevie Nicks. Be more like Stevie Nicks.

[Ronnie Karam]

Listen to Stevie Nicks. Get rid of your Twitter.

[Ben Mandelker]

But also, if you do take one thing from it, like, you know, it was good. He. He had very yellow teeth. So yellow that it read on tv. And he fixed it.

[Ronnie Karam]

No, but here's the thing. It led to this path of destruction because first he got his teeth fixed, then he got veneers, but then the veneers were too big for his teeth. So then everybody made fun of his Chiclet teeth. So then he got the veneers fixed a little, but then they were way too bright, so they were making fun of him, like putting pictures of Ross's teeth, teeth from friends when he got a bleaching. And now, you know, he got his teeth fixed again, but now his face looks weird because he's sober and he just looks different. And his face got skinnier and everyone's like, he looks meth. Like a methy zombie now. It's like, the guy just can't win. You try and fix one thing. In other words, no matter what you do to please other people, they'll find something else to bitch about. So don't try to please other people.

[Ben Mandelker]

Just live in some Yellowtooth glory, okay? Just be. Just be yellow. There's nothing wrong with yellow. It's a great.

[Ronnie Karam]

But if you want to fix it, fix it. But don't do it for other people, because you just can never win that way.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, honestly, I'm not going to give Carl a pep talk about his teeth. I think, like, of course.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, that was a general talk to anybody who cares about what they say online, including.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, no, it's. It's never nice to hear. I mean, that's why I've never done reaction reality tv. Not that I really had too many choices.

[Ronnie Karam]

I've been batting. I've been keeping them off with the bat over here. Like, Ronnie, please, please.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's why I'm. That's on tour. I don't need people talking about, like, my bad posture or, like, my skinny, fat body. Like, I just. I know that's what would happen. And I know I would feel really bad about it. And, you know, we are monsters. But I think that in the case of Carl, it's like actually very like, fixable stuff. So, you know, you just fix it and move on.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I just love that Carl's mini breakdown turned into mine. I was like, oh my God, what is my karma? What have I done in this life? What am I doing today? What am I doing right now?

[Ben Mandelker]

But also, by the way, let's not get away from what this is really about, which is that Carl was being. Was being really passive aggressive at a fucker. And Gabby is like, you know what? Fuck this guy. This guy is so like, whatever. And she gases up Lindsay as she should. And then of course Carl's like, yeah, actually like really hard because, like, teeth is like my trauma. And like, you really, like, you don't understand. Well, that's true. I had a Nerf boomerang and it hit me in the face and it's like they're really self conscious about my teeth ever since then. So he turned it into yet another like, Carl, woe is me Carl moment. And I'm actually kind of shocked that, that, that, that was not one of your takeaways, Ronnie.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, it was one of my takeaways, see, because of course I groaned when he did it because I was like, of course now we're going to go into a Carl trauma, which makes you way worse because Carl was traumatized and that's Carl's thing, you know, we all know he's been doing it for years. He just did it for multiple seasons with Lindsay. You know, it's like, anything time, Carl time. Carl is called out on anything. He's like, oh, but here's my drama of addiction. It's like, oh, for sake. Could just do the dishes, you know what I mean?

[Ben Mandelker]

One time, fly landed on my upper lip and my mom swatted at it and didn't see me there and, and took a fly swatter right to the teeth. So it's a lot of trauma on those teeth. You're doing great, Lexi.

[Ronnie Karam]

The teeth of trauma. I've got a mouth of trauma. That's why it hurts. She's like, okay, sorry. So then Carl is still going on about his teeth. And Andy almost goes, well, you know, like what I'm looking at now is definitely an improvement. Which is probably not the thing to say, but everyone's like, yeah, we love your teeth now, Carl. Great job, Carl.

[Kyle Cook]

They look great. They look great, Carl.

[Ben Mandelker]

Because everyone's always afraid with Carl he's always like, oh, he's always, like, so delicate. Like, they always need to prop him up with every single thing.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. Poor Carl. It's always poor Carl. So then it gets to. Lindsay was nice to you about your brother's death. So what about that? The anniversary of your brother's death? And he's like, I mean, oh, yeah, I was with Lindsay. So, like, I mean, the situation sucks. But, like, that was touching. That was touching. Which brings me to a trauma of the time I hit my ankle on a subway platform. That really hurt. And so it reminded me of that.

[Ben Mandelker]

It was a really beautiful moment that Lindsay pulled me aside, and we all appreciated that. It was just unfortunate that at that very moment, I was so distracted by Lindsey's kind words that a ping pong ball hit me right in the face. And.

[Ronnie Karam]

Which is why I broke up with Liz. So Andy's like, so why'd you go up and be nice to him in the club, Lindsay? And she's like, because I'm not a monster. And his brother died. And Andy's like, oh, wow, Carl, what did you think? And Carl's like, that meant a lot. Lindsay meant so much. So he's like, so, are you going to be friends again, Lindsay? And Lindsay's like, no, no, not there yet. Sorry. So now we talk about Turner, and Turner's the new guy, and it's Ted Turner. We all know it. And Ted Turner learned from being with Marlo on Real Housewives of Atlanta that he does not want to have to buy more reality stars townhomes. So he's not coming on this show.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So how's Turner adjusting the father?

[Kyle Cook]

Like, he's, like, so much better than I could have expected.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he's like, so the three of.

[Kyle Cook]

You do not live together?

[Ronnie Karam]

No.

[Kyle Cook]

What is that? Well, we put our romantic relationship on.

[Ben Mandelker]

Pause, and then everyone has to be like, oh, my God. Even though no one. I don't think anyone even. Even believe that there was a romantic relationship. But they just have to pretend like they're all shocked.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So she says that they're just focused on being the best parents to Gemma ever. And, you know, she's extremely famous, and he's not. And it's very difficult because he doesn't want to be public. And she does want to be public. She's got. She's like, I just got a fix it an ad, and my teeth all stay in. Sorry, Carl Bun is drew. And Turner does not want me gluing teeth into my baby. And that's a problem. Like, when am I allowed to profit on the baby?

[Kyle Cook]

Mommy is public. Daddy is private. What does that make baby? So we decided baby's public and private. So you'll see baby's face, but you'll never see her left arm. Siri.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think this fight is about Lindsay trying to sell. I suspect this fight is about Lindsay trying to sell. Sell, you know, ad space for the baby. Like, you know, sponsorships and, like, you know, Babies R Us or whatever on the baby shelf.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, she's, like, trying to sell little tattoos on the baby that are, like Ford.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's like, when people wrap their cars with an ad like Adriana's insurance, she's going to have, like, the baby in, like, a little. Like, a little, like, Bjorn Baby Bjorn. That's going to have, like, branding all over it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes. Like the bike riders in Austin. Like, people who ride bikes in Austin, like, dress perfect professionally, and then they ride around with sponsors all over themselves. Like, girl, you're. You're on. You're on the shoulder of the freeway. Can you stop? It's not the autobond or whatever, so. Yeah. But anyway, they're having problems with that. So they're still just friends, but basically couples, because he still sleeps there half the week. But they don't have sex. But everyone's like, yeah, we see them all the time, and they act like a couple. And she's like, well, we kind of are. We're parents, but we're not together.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So Andy's like, so what would.

[Kyle Cook]

What would you say to the Lindsay Ebbert of nine years ago? Like, what do you wish that she knew then that, you know. Well, I would say you just have to trust the universe and that there's gonna be a lot of sandwiches without mayo, and it's not gonna go the way you plan or think it's gonna go because you're gonna go into a world of reps. And you're okay with that because you'll get a baby out of it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Mm. Yeah. So that's hers. You know, she's like, trust the universe. So while Lindsay bounced back last year, lightning speed. Carl was a different animal when he wasn't giving lemur energy. I don't know what that means because I don't watch this show, but that's funny. Madagascar. God, I love that show. You really do look like the lemur from Madagascar. All right, well, unfortunately, I was tripped by Madagascar on my way into a Whole Foods, and I've never forgotten it.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's why I only drive electric cars. No more gas cars, because I'm mad at gas cars.

[Ronnie Karam]

So he asked about Liv. And let's talk about everyone's favorite amateur magician, Lil. Sorry, I've been calling her Liv Lil.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, I really appreciate that, because she does make me want to live. We've got life, more life. But she's Lil. So I was like, yeah, well, honestly, I just thought she had a hot body and a cute face, which is.

[Ronnie Karam]

Funny because, like, what attracted you to live? She was hot. Also, I fucked her parents at a soccer game, and that was pretty hot, so I figured she would be pretty good. Oh, she wasn't. She gave me 11. Oh.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I think this also speaks so much about Carl. I mean, it's not wrong to be. To, like, be attracted to someone because they're hot, you know, and you're attracted to their body and everything. But I feel like. And I would have to go back to confirm this, but I feel like the story that was pedaled to us was she seemed really cool, and she, like, really understood my journey. And she's, like, really into magic, and she's just, like, someone who, like, likes me for me. And then when asked about it again at the reading, yeah, she's hot. I'm like, so that just shows Carl's still Carl. But he likes to present like, I'm deeper now. I care about the person on the inside. No, you just care about her body, which is fine. But, like, stop trying to act like you're deeper than you are.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, Yeah. I thought he was mean to live. I mean, Liv is a little fruitless. Lil. You bring Lil on, and then you just make her look. I mean, she kind of made herself look stupid, too. But I didn't like how he was like, oh, she's just like. She gave me a lemon.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, gross.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's dead to me now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wait, hold on a second, Ronnie. Hold on, hold on. You're doing great, Lexi. Come on. Stay in there. Doing great.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's, like, so traumatized. Jesse manipulated Lil.

[Kyle Cook]

I wanted to get to know Lil, and I couldn't even have a chance.

[Ben Mandelker]

To get to know Lil.

[Ronnie Karam]

Lil totally thought I hated her. So Andy's like, so did it bother you that Carl had this girl at the house? I'm just like, no, because I wasn't at my house that weekend. But it did annoy me watching it, because he said, where I conceived my daughter. Because Carl was like, oh, she conceived her daughter in the bed I paid for her. And she's like, I did not conceive my daughter in a Bed. I conceived her on a taco.

[Kyle Cook]

It was a hammock in the shape of a taco. Turner didn't yell taco.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Amanda's like, so you're pulling. Pulling a turner and keeping it private?

[Kyle Cook]

Yeah, because, like, I don't need to tell you guys where I can see my baby. That's an exclusive for People magazine.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So he's like, oh, I'm responsible for my words, and I'm very sorry for that. I'm so, so sorry. So now, Kyle, with different about Lindsay now than when you started. And he's like, yeah, you know, oh, no, sorry. It's about Carl. And Carl's like, yeah, you know, like, going back to, like, when I first knew Carl, everything with Carl was disguised, but, you know, like, he would, like, pretend to be someone he's not because he's on, like, you know, substances. But now Carl's just pretending to be someone he's not based on, like, Instagram likes. So I'm just really proud of him. Really proud of him.

[Ben Mandelker]

Amanda's like, yeah, it's really cool to.

[Kyle Cook]

See how happy you are.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm really happy. Carl does not seem happy at all. He seems like a shell of something. He seems like he's gone. He's. He's just, like, sitting there trembling on the sofa now. Especially that he's, like, remembering all his teeth. Trauma of childhood. So y' all. But I've been, like, you guys both been, like, really supportive and kind of pushing me in the right way. So I appreciate it, but next time, like, try not to push me on the tooth because a lot of. A lot of dental trauma.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Sierra's like, yeah, we love you. Don't ever change, even with your stupid jokes. Just. Just stay dead eyed, pony boy. Stay dead eyed.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay.

[Ronnie Karam]

Hey, guys, I know we need to talk about Kyle and Amanda some more. Let's talk about that. Do they want to have a baby? Should they have a baby? When are they going to have a baby? When are they going to have a baby, guys? So they go through their whole. You got this, Lexi. So Kyle works too much. Amanda doesn't want to have a baby with the guy who works too much, but Kyle doesn't want to stop working because he needs to work. They want to sell lover boy, but they can't sell it, so he's stuck there. And I don't think it's real. What? I mean, I think the real issue probably for me, would be if I was Amanda. The guy works all day, and then he's decided to Be a DJ to give himself an excuse to go be wasted in bars flirting with chicks and fans of the show blubbering all over him until 4 in the morning every single night. And that's not cool. I'm not having a baby with some douchebag that's possibly out fans all night.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And he knows that they have a baby. They're moving to New Jersey. So they're really. They're really trying to like, push off the inevitable theater.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So they don't say it. They both go through it. Like, it's this way.

[Ben Mandelker]

Work.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's work.

[Ben Mandelker]

Work.

[Ronnie Karam]

But he's not ready to change his ways. And.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he held. He held Lindsay's baby. And this, by the way, took 20 minutes of the reunion. 20 minutes that we could have been spent. They could have spent. Been asking. It's not even speaking English. Could have been. Been asking Lexi about her family, which honestly, like, I do not care about Kyle and Amanda's baby journey right now because there is no journey. So he has burned.

[Ronnie Karam]

There's no journey. We've. It's the kind of the same thing with Amanda and Kyle. For years and years. Amanda is willing to put up with this and that's what she's gonna get Kyle. I mean, I can. I still can't believe that she married Kyle. I really thought she was gonna. I thought her parents were gonna like throw her in a van and get her out of there, but here we go.

[Ben Mandelker]

But they. Yeah. And they. And they applaud Amanda for her mental health journey and all that stuff. And Lindsay talks about how postpartum is actually, like. It was like really was. Was. Was hard and it was like a lot to deal with. And I'm strong, so.

[Ronnie Karam]

But here's. This is going to be controversial, but I don't care. Amanda's mental health. Here's what Amanda's mental health journey is. I'm not happy. This man is not giving me what I want. So I'm going to start taking things that will help me be okay with that. So now she's been drugged up enough that she's taking up. I don't mean drugged up, but you know what I mean. She's gotten herself medicated and she's talked to a therapist and now she's gotten herself to the place where she's just going to be okay. Just be like, whatever he can do whatever he wants. If it works out, it works out. I don't think ultimately that's taking care of her mental health. I know she's feeling Better. But I think she's going to need to get what she wants. She deserves to have a family and if he's not ready, she needs to get the fuck out of there. I think this is just all temporary mental health fix. I think ultimately she's got to fix her situation and it's not going to be just like sitting there putting up with whatever Kyle wants for another 10 years.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I mean that is, that is an interest. That's a. Yeah, I mean I think she should fix her situation because I think that ultimately she and Kyle, it appears that they have different wants and that is ultimately something that will continue to haunt their relationship from what it seems like seeing them on TV outside in. But I also think that like, I think that she, it's like both, it could be both things that she is on a mental health journey and she has to deal with that stuff.

[Ronnie Karam]

Stuff. I think she is on a mental health journey and I think she is feeling better. I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying she's feeling better because she's, she's learned to kind of take what she's been given instead of being like, I think it's like sunken cost fallacy. We've had this discussion for a decade now about Amanda and Kyle. It's like she's already put in this time so she's gonna just stay with them and hope that once the show's over and once the lover boy is sold, it's all going to be different. But then she says even in this what I'm thinking, which is. But then I'm worried that even when all of this is done and you sell lover boy, you're just going to get involved in something else which is going to keep you out all night in clubs getting shit faced. You're going to find some other reason to do it. And that's true. And I think he's nice. Like, I mean I like Kyle and I like Amanda, but I just, if she's going to ever truly fix that mental health, she's going to have to fix this and get out of it. Unless he. She does what she needs.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, it's more like not so much fix the mental health if she wants, I think find true happiness. Yes, that's, that's what it is. And yeah, I do, I'm, I'm, I'm with you in this. I like actually both as much shit as we give both of them. I really actually enjoy Kyle and Amanda quite a bit and. But I do, I am very Concerned that there are fundamental issues with their relationship that I think they're hoping will just sort of get fixed and resolved. And, like, we've seen it happen too many times where those things never quite come together. And, yeah, it's gonna be. I think it's funny.

[Ronnie Karam]

We're like, we don't want to talk about Kyle and Amanda anymore. And welcome to the next half hour. So then we see that. We see all the guys at break meeting the baby, and they're like, so, Carl, you met the baby? And he's like, oh, yeah, Briefly. Just like, a little hello for afar. I said, hello. Oh, you sleep in the crib. I bought you. Hope you enjoy that. Page goes, yeah, Gemma said, fuck off.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I picked up on that energy when Gemma threw a rattle at my teeth. And long story short, I'll be seeing the oral surgeon tomorrow. So then we. Now it's time to. Let's get to the main event, which is Paige talking about Craig. So Andy's like, Craig.

[Kyle Cook]

This season, alpha males Kyle and Craig face off over the. The manliest topic you can imagine.

[Ronnie Karam]

Spritz cocktails.

[Ben Mandelker]

So we saw that again, and Andy's.

[Kyle Cook]

Like, do you think you fought too hard for Craig in that page?

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, no, because it was hilarious to me, and I do anything that's funny. But he was my boyfriend, and I thought I always fought very hard for him, and I always tried to protect him. Someone said some. Something bad about him.

[Kyle Cook]

So I'm like, yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

I would go at them like he was my focus 1000%. So I'd be like, ew. Like, I. I know. Like, I would always defend them. And then, like, in private, I'd be like. Like, you know, like, what you did was wrong and I had to defend you because you were my boyfriend. Ew. Gross. Disgusting.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So she's saying she defended him but told him in private he was wrong. And she doesn't even know if he was lying about the business stuff, because every time he talked to her about it, it was different. And Kyle's like, yeah, I mean, like. I mean, I was trying to take the high road, but I have, like, literally text after text of him. Just lie after lie. Receipts galore. And I like that. Amanda's like, yeah, Kyle was, like, upset. He would wake up in the middle of the night and just start freaking out and rocking back and forth. Really worried. Spritz really, really brings stress into Kyle's life.

[Ben Mandelker]

She said that he would sit on the edge of the bed and be like, which is so funny. Because I think we can all imagine Kyle doing that. I also, I have to say, I.

[Ronnie Karam]

Think that's like, he needs to go rinse out his nose.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think what's more refreshing than a spritz is this return to the narrative that Craig is a liar, which has been obviously, like, throughout this season. But this was, like, a big part of Craig's story on Southern Charm for many seasons, and then it kind of, like, went away. And then Craig is like, I'm reformed. I don't drink anymore. I like planting flowers. And people really forgot that Craig is just, like, a pathological liar, Especially because, really, the emphasis has been on Shep and Austin being the disasters lately. And this was really a great reminder that Craig spent so much of our time watching him on Bravo blatantly lying to us and the people on his show. So it's just so wonderful to, like, have a full 100 commitment back to the idea, like, Craig is a liar. We've caught him in lies. We have the receipts. It's so. It's so big. We don't have to bring out the receipts because it's just a known fact amongst us that he is a liar. I thought that was fun.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, and it's also. When did Craig. When did Craig start to repair his reputation? When he started dating Paige immediately. Like, she started doing that cleanup. And that's always kind of been my annoyance with her on this in this couple. It's like, stop presenting Craig like he's this thing. Like, he changed his whole. All that reputation. You just mentioned was Paige working behind the scenes. Like, here's what you do now. Here's the planter you buy. Here's the this. I think that was a big part of Paige doing it. And so my question was always like, but isn't that Paige lying? Because everybody's like, no, Paige would never lie. And I've always looked at it as page lying. Even if it's lying, I think it's normal to lie about your partner and deal with things privately. But the whole Amanda and Kyle wedding thing, I always thought was kind of shitty, the way that. That handled. They blamed Lindsay for leaking that story. And. And I don't. Did she ever get an apology for that? I'm still waiting for that. But she says it now. She's like, well, I was in a couple with a guy, and so I was glad this was being addressed because she's like, I was in a couple with a guy, and so of course I'm going to try to protect him and make him look better and take care of it in private.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think I. My take is a little different than yours, which is that I don't think that, like, Paige was. And maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I don't think Paige was like, this is what you have to do to look good. Like, you have to do this and this and this. I think it was more like, why are you acting like that? Like, be an adult. Like, it's more like she. Like, I think she, in that relationship was presenting her standards of what she expects out of a boyfriend. And, like. And especially as he was trying to probably be more professional, she probably was like, if you want to be professional, you can't be doing this stuff. You have to, like. You have to, like, go. And, like, yeah, I agree with that. Like a human. So I don't think it was like, a Lady Macbeth, but I think she probably was like, you need to get with the program, either with me or with your audience if you're trying to do X, Y, and Z.

[Ronnie Karam]

She's very good at curating the personality that she shows, and I just think that's smart. I don't really think it's malicious, but I think she's good at that. And I think if she's with Craig, like you said, she's helping him with his, too. But, yeah, I think his whole reputation is. I guess it's her cleaning him up and being like, you can't act like this, this.

[Ben Mandelker]

And, yeah, I. I interpreted what you said, and maybe. And maybe this was an error on my part. I'm responsible for my own words. I. I took it as, like, there was, like, a Lady Macbeth quality to it. And I just. I see her doing that stuff, but not from a. Like, some sort of, like.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, Lady Macbeth was, like, trying to control. Control him for her own good. And I don't think she was trying to control Craig for her own good. I'm not. It's nothing like that. I just think she's very aware of personality. She's like a politician to me. Like, she's very good at controlling image, I think. And so I think that she did that for him. That's all. It's a compliment, really, saying she's wonderful. But there's been a lot of moments where I'm like, come on, you're just fucking lying about Craig. Craig obviously was coked up at this wedding. Like, I believed all those rumors that were coming out at the time. And when Paige was yelling at everybody else about being a Liar. I'm like, but that you're lying because you're with Craig, and so you're lying about all this stuff with Craig. So.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know what sucks, though, is that.

[Ronnie Karam]

That wedding was nice to see her be able to be honest about it now. In other words.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes, I agree. And. And what sucks is that that wedding was a while ago. She. And so that was relatively. I would say that's relatively early on in their relationship that she was already having to lie and cover for him. I mean, we saw it in Winter House, too, and, like, that sucks. That's a lot of time to be put in that situation. I'm sorry. Surprised she actually didn't bail earlier. And that's. That's gotta be. Gotta take a toll on you, like, to. To. To have someone that's. You're constantly having to, like, cringe when they start to drink or cringe in public situations and having to, like, have it. Especially when I. I do think that, like, her brand is authenticity. Like, that's like, the vibe is, like, we go and I sit in the bed and I talk and, like, say it how it is. And to know that you have to, like, actually lie from someone, and, like, that's got to be. Like, that's got to be really. That's got to be sucky. And had to weigh on her for a few years.

[Ronnie Karam]

But why do you have to do that?

[Ben Mandelker]

You don't have to, but you wind up in these sit. Sometimes with people, you wind up in situations where you feel like you like the person a lot. So you're like. And then, you know, so I can see how she got kind of, like, roped into that. And it just sucks. It sucks that she got roped into that. Into that path. And I believe. If we're really gonna go back, I believe the same thing happened with her and Perry, or Perry, whatever his name was from her second season on the show.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. Where she's trying to protect Perry and stuff and, like, keep him off tv. He didn't want to be on tv. And then trying to, like, protect his controlling ways and all of that stuff. And we never even saw Perry.

[Ben Mandelker]

He sucked. He tried to. She basically was, like, nowhere that season, and, like, that could have totally derailed her entire life because, like, she could have maybe not gotten invited back.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So. So, you know, were you wrong about him being a liar? Kyle? And Kyle's like, no, I was just trying to take the high road, you know, because we see the clip of Craig. I love Craig in the pirate hat, just lying his ass off me. Like, really? You can't do this to me. I'm gonna, like, not serve your alcohol in all of my. 37. I mean, two stores of pillows. My pillow stores. We'll see when I. We'll see how you feel when I take your lover boy out of my pillow stores.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And Kyle's basically like. He's like, yeah. Well, he would always say one thing. He'll be like, okay, yeah, like, okay, I'm doing this, but I want to rob by you. Oh, wait, I already ran this by my. I've got run it by my business partner. Oh, wait, they are all doing this. We're gonna do this because they're not doing tea. And then it turns out they are doing tea. So just like, a lot of. It's like, a lot a stream of. From Craig to Kyle, and he just was over it the entire time.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Craig unfollowed anybody who doesn't support him or anybody who's not team lover spritz or whatever he's doing spritz social or whatever his thing is. So Carl's like, yeah. And once they broke up, Paige commented team lover boy on something. And, like, that really touched me. And she's like, oh, my God, please don't cry. God, your tears. Your tears are flammable. Okay, please. You. You literally cry. Everclear. Please don't cry.

[Ben Mandelker]

So now this. So.

[Kyle Cook]

Well, Paige, for the past couple years, you've been adamant that rumors of the Craig getting kicked out of Kyle and Amanda's wedding were untrue, but you want to change that story now?

[Ben Mandelker]

And she's like, okay, so what I was fighting about last year at the reunion was that Danielle sent the story to a blogger. And, like, I just was fighting because I was just so mad that I had to even talk to Danielle. So I was just angry at her. And we see a clip to Danielle talking about how she send this thing to the blogger or whatever, but she's like, now, was he asked not to return to the backyard? Absolutely. Absolutely. Lexi, are you okay over there? I see you're really clenching onto Gabby's hand. Are you okay with the story?

[Ronnie Karam]

It's just that I was manipulated. Okay. So anyway, so the next morning, I woke up and I said, you better apologize to the Petulas. And he refused. And I was mortified. And he was belligerently drunk. He was causing a scene. He was kicking tables. He was yelling at people. Break up with him. Why? Like, I can't.

[Ben Mandelker]

Why did she not break up?

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, how do you stay with that. That's. Stand by what I said then. Like, it's hard to respect staying with that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sorry, I. I do wonder, like, that's crazy that she didn't dump. Dump him right then and there. Like, I wonder, I do wonder what was holding her back at that moment.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ugh, gross. So she's like, yeah, you know, I never had a lot my entire life. But then all of a sudden with Craig, I had to be like, oh, he wasn't that drunk, or he didn't mean it. And, you know, it's overwhelming and tiring and so Ciara, of course, knew there were problems. And so then we get the breakup story. So Andy's like, well, he told me at the reunion for Southern Charm that it was Thanksgiving break, but he didn't think that you were actually broken up. And she's like, oh, no, let me tell you. He was at my house on Thanksgiving. Thursday. He left Friday. I broke up with him that Sunday. December10, the day he was on Watch what Happens Live. He came over that night and we had an in person discussion. And it's not like I just called him up and said, see ya. Like, we had a phone call and then we saw each other. And then in a timely fashion, at the end of January, I mailed his things back.

[Ben Mandelker]

I do have a question about that. How is that, like a timely fashion end of January? This all happened like over Thanksgiving. Why do you even want Craig's stuff in your apartment for that long?

[Ronnie Karam]

Because that's when she announced it. Because I like that they were keeping it. I think they were keeping it like copacetic. Until it wasn't. Because he was like, I need time and I won't want to announce it like this. I don't want to have to go on press and have all these discussions about the breakup. And she's like, okay, fine, I'll announce it when you're ready. And then he's out doing whatever he wants. And she's like, oh, no, fuck this guy. I'm getting rid of him at the new year. And she sent all his shit back.

[Ben Mandelker]

At the end of January. She's like, yeah, I'm getting the cricut machine out of here. It's haunting me so.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, it could take me as long as it takes me if I have to ship all your shit to you. You know what?

[Ben Mandelker]

I know that's actually.

[Ronnie Karam]

Especially in New York.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh my God, I'm really bad with mail. I'm really bad with opening mail and sending it.

[Ronnie Karam]

And we have cars and Stuff. I mean, in New York, you're lugging all the. All those boxes down and, like, having to get them wherever. No, thank you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Ew. Disgusting. So she explains, like, what you said, that there were, like, she was getting all these pictures of Craig out at a bar, and she was afraid that people were gonna accuse him of cheating on. On her, and she didn't want him to have to go through that, so she. She reached out to him and said, I'm gonna put the statement out. And then he didn't say anything, so she went ahead and did it anyway. And. And then Andy's like, well, Kyle, did.

[Kyle Cook]

It surprise you that Craig didn't defend Paige when the cheating rumor started to switch rule in the press?

[Ben Mandelker]

And Kyle's like, yeah, that made me maverick, because I knew exactly what.

[Kyle Cook]

Okay, whatever. That man.

[Ronnie Karam]

Sure.

[Kyle Cook]

I think he's supporting you, Paige.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. Because for those who don't remember, that's what Craig did. Right. When she made that announcement, he was like, oh, my God. I was so blindsided. I had no idea she was gonna break up with me. And how could she do this right now at the holidays? Poor Chris, when he knew already for a month, and he was already out partying with other girls. And that's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like.

[Kyle Cook]

It's just so interesting because you never know what's going on inside a couple. It's just so true. Paige, we really saw an emotional and.

[Ben Mandelker]

Vulnerable side to you this summer, and.

[Kyle Cook]

I don't think we've ever seen it before.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's right, which is why I've decided to leave the show, because I saw myself crying on the. In that bed, and I said, never again. Absolutely not.

[Ronnie Karam]

It was like watching the Fear Factor. I might as well have been swallowing worms and making cake out of my own vomit. No, thank you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Disgusting. Gross. Never coming back to nbcu. You brought up the worst side of me.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, and she says that, you know, being in the public eye, like, she doesn't feel like exes owe each other anything, but they're in the public eye, and their reputation means a lot. So when he's out there insinuating that she's cheating and he's leaning into, like, oh, she wanted other people, which she's like, I didn't dump Craig because of other people. I dumped Craig because of Craig. So.

[Ben Mandelker]

And we saw that this season, and what was great about this season of Summer House is we saw her really kind of, like, getting the ick or at least letting the ick come out to light. And you know, crying in that bed with Sierra, it was not just like, she met a guy in November and decided to move on. So Andy's like, all right, well, you.

[Kyle Cook]

Guys, you said you thought you and your ex boyfriend, that you.

[Ben Mandelker]

The two of you, would remain friends. I did think that, yes. Oh, sorry. Before that, she goes.

[Kyle Cook]

He's like, you know, I've noticed that you keep on saying ex boyfriend. You're not really saying his name.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, absolutely. And you will never hear me say his name again. Unless he changes his name to stupid, in which case I'll say that many times.

[Ronnie Karam]

So he's like, well, you just never know what's going on with people. Bravo con's gonna be interesting. Oh, you're so cute. Thinking I'm going to Bravo con.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, that's. That's adorable. Did you know that I've already been speaking to human resources? Right? I'm leaving this damn show.

[Ronnie Karam]

I've already started calling it Bravo Non.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I don't know if you know this, but I was at the Oscars Vanity Fair party. So, yeah, Bravo Con. Not gonna happen.

[Ronnie Karam]

No. Sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

No.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, Jesse, any plans to pursue Paige?

[Ben Mandelker]

Of course. Come on.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know it. Fly me to the goon and let me goon among the star all right, please stop singing. Thank you.

[Kyle Cook]

Right now.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's a lot.

[Kyle Cook]

It's a lot.

[Ronnie Karam]

You got this. Lexi got this. That was our song.

[Kyle Cook]

I love the moon. He took that from me.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Andy's like, paige, your growth over the last year has been in the insane to watch.

[Kyle Cook]

Amanda, you said the things that Paige achieved this year are the goals she told you about when you first met. It must make you feel really proud to see her.

[Ben Mandelker]

Amanda's like, yeah, I get emotional thinking about it. But to be fair, I also reached my goals, which was to make guacamole 16 times this summer. So where's my flowers?

[Ronnie Karam]

I learned how to make guacamole into bikini bikinis. So let's not just go.

[Kyle Cook]

Let's spread the love around.

[Ronnie Karam]

All right. Do you plan on going to the Hamptons? Lindsay, are you done with this show? And she's like, I am a baby now. So I don't know. Maybe I'll be a friend of, like, I have a baby. So, okay, let's end it. That's it. It's over. So everybody but Carl gets a white Russian. Carl's gonna get some breast milk. Just kidding.

[Ben Mandelker]

Andy really teased this joke out.

[Kyle Cook]

He's like, everyone, in honor of the season being over, you all get a shot of Breast milk.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they're like, oh, yeah, we're so excited for that.

[Kyle Cook]

Just kidding. It's a White Russian. Except for Carl, it's a double White Russian.

[Ben Mandelker]

What?

[Kyle Cook]

Just kidding. It's Lindsay's breast milk.

[Ben Mandelker]

What?

[Kyle Cook]

Just kidding.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's toothpaste. What? Just kidding. It's just oat milk. Oh, thank God.

[Kyle Cook]

Filled with breast milk. Oh.

[Ronnie Karam]

Maeve denied that Lindsay drank a White Russian.

[Kyle Cook]

Damn it.

[Ronnie Karam]

So they do shots and they're served in tiny bottles. And Kyle gives a toast. He's like, I gotta wing this one. Okay, friends, the family, I just want to tell you this. If you can't still pee your name into a blanket, is this even your name? All right, I'm gonna pee. Kyle, put your penis away.

[Ben Mandelker]

And that brings an end to not just this episode, but the Paige desorbo era on Summer House. So thank you, everyone, for listening. I know. I'm so sad.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's a bummer.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, it is a bummer. Also, like, I don't know what's gonna happen to our summer House. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. Everything will be fine. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Thanks for being here. And we will catch you on the next episode. Remember, [e-mail] Bye. Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King.

[Ronnie Karam]

Our way is the Amber way.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster, she can run my.

[Ronnie Karam]

Country it's Angie McGovern it's always automatic with Ashley Auto.

[Ben Mandelker]

Put your hands together for Carly Clapp.

[Ronnie Karam]

Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt. We never miss her call.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's Diane Call Aaron mcnicholas she don't miss no Trickolas Hava Nagila Weber. You'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go we all go for Hugo Jamie, she has no less.

[Ronnie Karam]

Namey she's our kind of mess. It's Jennifer Messer Sipped some scotch with.

[Ben Mandelker]

Jessica Trots she's our favorite streamer. Caroline Peacock, she gets an A.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's Kelly B. Kristen the Piston Anderson get a B in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera sera Whatever will be Will Lauren Sills be bringing the funk? It's Leslie Plunkett, she gets an A from us It's Lindsey D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Lino Fresh as a daisy. It's Maisie McHenry, we love her on the rocks It's Melissa Cox. Megan Berg, you can't Have a burger.

[Ben Mandelker]

Without the berg this is living with.

[Ronnie Karam]

Michelle Vivian I love Aya Olivia Williamson Tastier than Flanderson It's Rachel Manderson she.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sure is swell It's Raquel yes, we.

[Ronnie Karam]

Canna It's Savannah Cast a spell with.

[Ben Mandelker]

Shannon Spellman let's share with Sharon Eldridge the Bay Area betches Betches and our.

[Ronnie Karam]

Super premium sponsors She's VVIP It's Amanda V Can't lose when you're with Amy.

[Ben Mandelker]

Baldwin somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy.

[Ronnie Karam]

MD we're taking the gold with Brenda.

[Ben Mandelker]

Silva let's get real with Caitlin o'.

[Ronnie Karam]

Neal don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily saga Sides let's go into the woods.

[Ben Mandelker]

With Guy Tubbs who, what, why, where?

[Ronnie Karam]

And Gwen Pentland it's our queen It's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Queen Laifa Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch She's a little bit loony Junie Knock, knock knocking on Katie Manock's door My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurray Murdo we love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock we're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron She's a whiz It's Liz Sarthy always killing it It's Lola Al Kalani the.

[Ronnie Karam]

Incredible edible Matthew sisters She eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose we're on the floor with Molly Dorset There's a chance of meatballs It's Rebecca Cloud she's.

[Ben Mandelker]

The queen bee It's Sarah Lance Kim.

[Ronnie Karam]

Key we cannot tell a lie It's Sarah Tell of son Shannon out of.

[Ben Mandelker]

A can and Anthony Come on check your body, baby do the Sydney Congdon let's take off with Tamla playing It's.

[Ronnie Karam]

Always a good time when you're wasting time with Bravo she ain't no shrinking violet Coutar we love you guys. If you like, watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.