#2935 RHOA S16E19 Part 1: Junebug Don’t You Lose My Number

Summary

Watch What Crappens - Episode #2935: RHOA S16E19 Part 1: Junebug Don’t You Lose My Number - Detailed Summary

In episode #2935 of "Watch What Crappens," hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve deep into the latest happenings of Bravo's flagship reality series, "Real Housewives of Atlanta" (RHOA). Released on July 21, 2025, this episode titled "Junebug Don’t You Lose My Number" provides a comprehensive recap and analysis of Season 16, Episode 19 Part 1, highlighting the intricate dynamics, conflicts, and strategies employed by the cast members.

---

1. Introduction and Setting the Scene

The episode begins with Ben and Ronnie exchanging light-hearted banter about their personal lives and recent experiences, quickly transitioning into the core content focused on RHOA.

Ronnie [03:39]: "Well, hello and welcome to Watch what crappens. I'm Ronnie and that's Ben over there. Hi, Ben."

Ben [03:45]: "Hi, Ronnie. How's it going?"

This casual start sets an engaging tone, inviting listeners into their world while preparing them for an in-depth discussion.

---

2. Main Conflict: Angela vs. Phaedra

At the heart of this episode is the escalating tension between Angela and Phaedra, two central figures in RHOA's Season 16.

Angela's Accusations

Angela takes a bold step by accusing Phaedra of orchestrating the "Machus sitch," a series of events causing turmoil among the cast.

Ben [04:16]: "I have my eyes out and open for our Potomac cast, although I'm actually not even near Potomac, but I am here in Maryland..."

Ronnie [09:25]: "Angela's like, my husband doesn't know who you are."

Angela's confrontation centers around Phaedra's involvement with Marcus, whose credibility is under scrutiny.

Ronnie [09:25]: "Why is everybody saying this issue is real? Maybe the name's stupid, but the issue is real."

Phaedra's Defense

Phaedra vehemently denies the allegations, asserting her innocence and challenging the validity of the accusations.

Ben [09:59]: "Phaedra's like, you don't remember Bravo came to me and begged me to be on this show. I'm not trying to secure my spot."

Ronnie [27:36]: "It's all AI stories that are just made up."

Shamia’s Involvement

Shamia steps into the fray, defending Drew while subtly highlighting her own strategies and alliances within the group.

Ronnie [57:38]: "I was like, I'm happy for Shamia to step in right now, even if it is extremely self-serving..."

This intervention adds another layer to the existing tension, showcasing the complex web of relationships and power plays among the housewives.

---

3. Analyzing Cast Strategies and Alliances

Ben and Ronnie dissect the tactics employed by the cast members, emphasizing self-production and strategic alliances as primary drivers of the show's drama.

Self-Production and Authenticity

The hosts question the authenticity of interactions, suggesting that cast members are more focused on controlling narratives than genuine relationships.

Ben [17:27]: "It's a weak fence. So Angela’s accusing Phaedra of being a self producer."

Ronnie [17:33]: "Angela is. Angela's accusing Phaedra of being a self producer."

This discussion highlights the perceived inauthentic nature of alliances, with Ben pointing out that alliances often lead to manipulated and ulterior motives.

Ben [18:36]: "And the alliances are bad because the audience can pick up on it because the alliances mean that you're going to have inauthentic interactions..."

Impact on Viewer Perception

Ben emphasizes that audiences are increasingly sophisticated, adept at sensing when interactions are performative rather than genuine.

Ben [18:36]: "We as an audience are more sophisticated than these idiot reality stars realize. And we pick up on everything..."

This insight underscores a growing disconnect between production-driven narratives and audience expectations for authenticity.

---

4. Unpacking Allegations and Character Dynamics

The episode delves into specific incidents and character behaviors that fuel the ongoing drama.

The "Hands" Incident

A significant subplot revolves around the mysterious "hands" threat, where Angela claims someone sent to confront her merely has hands, adding ambiguity and intrigue.

Ben [25:27]: "I was like, phaedra, Phaedra, don't lose my number. I do all the hits. I would cram them all in."

Ronnie [29:44]: "I'm the one with the hands. Look at these hands. They're human. Huge. They're huge."

Marcus’ Credibility

The credibility of Marcus, involved in the accusations, is questioned repeatedly, casting doubt on the validity of Angela's claims.

Ben [32:53]: "He was not scared. He was only scared after Charles walked up to him and was like, get out of my event."

This skepticism towards Marcus adds another layer of complexity, suggesting possible manipulation or misunderstandings within the cast.

---

5. Character Spotlights: Angela, Phaedra, Kelly, and Others

Ben and Ronnie provide deep dives into individual characters, analyzing their motivations, alliances, and impact on the show's dynamics.

Angela

Angela is portrayed as a central figure navigating multiple conflicts, from accusations against Phaedra to struggles in her personal life.

Ben [41:01]: "She's like the Kimberly Akimbo of housewives. So Angela is like, on top of that."

Her vulnerabilities and strategic maneuvers are dissected, revealing her multifaceted role in the unfolding drama.

Phaedra

Phaedra is depicted as a strategic and sometimes manipulative figure. Her efforts to maintain her position and alliances are critically analyzed.

Ronnie [58:28]: "Well, Phaedra is like, I did not like they, they didn't want me. I didn't like them."

Her interactions with other cast members, especially Angela, are scrutinized for authenticity and motive.

Kelly

Kelly is highlighted as potentially shadier than her counterparts, with the hosts questioning her motives and alliances.

Ronnie [10:23]: "I think Kelly is a little shadier than people are giving her credit for."

Her strategic positioning and possible ulterior motives are explored, adding to the intricate web of cast relationships.

---

6. Meta-Analysis: Reality TV's Influence on Authenticity

Beyond just recapping events, Ben and Ronnie offer a meta-analysis of how reality TV shapes and sometimes distorts authentic interactions among cast members.

Ben [18:36]: "We as an audience are more sophisticated than these idiot reality stars realize. And we pick up on everything..."

This critique underscores the hosts' belief that the production's influence often overrides genuine human interactions, leading to staged drama rather than authentic storytelling.

---

7. Notable Quotes and Moments

Throughout the episode, several memorable quotes stand out, reflecting the hosts' wit and critical perspectives.

• Ben [07:09]: "Why is Shamia dressed with a shoe tongue on her?"

  This metaphor criticizes Phaedra's unconventional fashion choices as symbolic of her disruptive role.

• Ronnie [27:36]: "It's all AI stories that are just made up."

  A humorous take on the authenticity of the cast members' stories and accusations.

• Ben [49:24]: "Phil Collins Live. I mean, hello. This is the dream."

  Reflects the hosts' playful interactions amidst serious discussions.

---

8. Insights and Conclusions

Ben and Ronnie conclude that Season 16 of RHOA is characterized by meticulous manipulation, strategic alliances, and a departure from genuine interactions. Their analysis suggests that the show's production fosters an environment where authenticity is sacrificed for dramatic effect, leading to strained relationships and orchestrated conflicts among cast members.

Ben [55:11]: "What did Kelly think? Who does Kelly think did it?"

Ronnie [61:35]: "Think twice. Just another day for you and me and Perry. Menopause. Dice. Sorry."

These insights highlight the hosts' skepticism towards the authenticity of the show's narrative, emphasizing the performative nature of reality TV.

---

9. Looking Ahead: Teasers for Part 2

As the episode wraps up, Ben and Ronnie hint at unresolved issues and upcoming conflicts that will be explored in the next part of their recap series.

Ronnie [64:08]: "This is the end of part one of this recap for part two. Keep an eye on your podcast feed."

Listeners are left anticipating further analysis and revelations in the continuation of this episode's breakdown.

---

Conclusion

Episode #2935 of "Watch What Crappens" offers listeners a thorough and engaging analysis of RHOA's Season 16, Episode 19 Part 1. Through a blend of critical insights, humor, and detailed breakdowns, Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam provide an invaluable perspective on the ever-evolving drama of Real Housewives of Atlanta. Their ability to dissect complex relationships and uncover underlying motives makes this podcast a must-listen for fans seeking deeper understanding beyond the on-screen antics.

Stay tuned for Part 2 of this recap, where Ben and Ronnie continue to unravel the intricate web of alliances and confrontations shaping the latest season of RHOA.

---

Note: All quotes include approximate timestamps and are attributed to the respective speakers for clarity and reference.

Transcript

[Ronnie]

It is so nice to entertain in the summertime. I just did it this past weekend. I had a big party over here on my deck and it's a big deck and it was all furnished by Wayfair.

[Ben]

Yeah, I just bought some acapulco chairs for my patio and they are so cool. They were so easy to assemble and also so comfy. They arrived quickly and like they look great out there.

[Ronnie]

If you're having a backyard get together, Wayfair is your one stop shop for outdoor entertaining.

[Ben]

Cookout shop patio tables, grills and dishware. Pool party. Kick back with lounge chairs, daybeds, umbrellas, game night. Wayfair's got cornhole, croquet, string lights to set the scene. I mean it really goes on and on.

[Ronnie]

Ronnie Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. And the best part to me was that I got to pick it out and then I got to have someone come put it all together as well.

[Ben]

I love that. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets, and more shipped for free.

[Ronnie]

Shop outdoor furniture, grills, lawn games, and way more for way less. Head to Wayfair.com to explore a huge.

[Ben]

Outdoor selection that's W a Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every.

[Ronnie]

Home the pace of life is faster than ever. And if you keep meaning to check out your favorite author's latest title but you can't seem to find the time, Audible is the perfect solution for you.

[Ben]

Audible has an incredible selection with over 1 million audiobooks and audible originals all in one easy app.

[Ronnie]

And you can listen to captivating, immersive stories on Audible while you're doing the stuff you have to do, like household chores as commuting grocery runs, Audible makes.

[Ben]

It easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time.

[Ronnie]

I am listening to the title Dungeon Crawler Carl, which is actually insane and I read all the series, but I loved it so much that now I'm listening to it as I drive around and it's just, it's so cool listening to it because the guy does so many funny characters. I'm just loving it. I've always loved Audible and this is just like listening to a play in my car. I love it. There's more to imagine when you listen.

[Ben]

Go to audible.com crappins and sign up for a free 30 day trial. That's audible.com crappins taking control of your health and feeling confident in your body shouldn't feel overwhelming. But let's be real, it often does. That's where hers comes in. They have made the process simple, supportive and entirely online so you can start strong, stay strong from wherever you are.

[Ronnie]

Hers is transforming women's health care by providing access to affordable weight loss treatment plans. They connect you with a medical provider who will work with you to determine the best treatment option for for you.

[Ben]

If prescribed, you get medication as part of a doctor developed weight loss program complete with ongoing care check ins, dosage and medication adjustments and 24. 7 online support at no additional cost, no hidden fees and no membership fees. Start your free online visit today at4hers.com.

[Ronnie]

Crappins that's F-O-R-H-E-R-S.com crappins for your personalized weight loss treatment options.

[Ben]

For hers.com crappens weight loss by hers is not available everywhere. Compounded products are not approved or reviewed for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased.

[Ronnie]

Well, hello and welcome to Watch what crappens. I'm Ronnie and that's Ben over there. Hi, Ben.

[Ben]

Hi, Ronnie. How's it going?

[Ronnie]

Good. You've been burgling hamburgers today or what?

[Ben]

Sure have been. I got my. I got my. I've been on a big streak with these nautical stripes lately. I was wearing a different nautical stripes T shirt last week for two of our recaps. So it's. I guess it's just. It's in. I'm gonna be stealing burgers and going to the high seas.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, Ben is in here.

[Ben]

So do you.

[Ronnie]

He's on the east coast, so he's. He's very east coast today. You look very handsome, Ben. You look like you.

[Ben]

Thank you.

[Ronnie]

Right in with those little hobnobbers.

[Ben]

You know what? I have my eyes out and open for our Potomac cast, although I'm actually not even near Potomac, but I am here in Maryland and I had some delicious crab over the weekend and it's wonderful being here. It's very humid. Very humid. I've gotten very spoiled with LA weather. Yeah. But. But you know what? Had a nice. Yeah, but I've had a wonderful time here and yeah. Thank you, Maryland, for being a wonderful state to give an Academy Award acceptance speech to. Maryland.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I'd like to thank Maryland. I'd like to thank American Airlines for everything. You guys. Yes, everyone, welcome to the show. We are doing our first Amazon Live. Can you believe they're letting us on that. I can't. Um. Is it going to be insane? Probably, yeah. It's going to be so weird. So come join us. We don't know what it's going to be like, but we're going to be on it. It's going to be this Tuesday at 5:30pm Pacific Time on Amazon Live. Check our socials right before and we'll. We'll give better instructions once we figure it out. We'll let you figure it out. So join us. We're doing that. Otherwise, I think we're having a pretty normal week this week. I am in Angie K. Sunglasses today because I got my eyes did last week.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie]

And apparently I swell and bruise more than most. I found out, man.

[Ben]

Welcome to my life. Are you welcome to my life? Yeah, sure am. I'm a swallow and a. Well, technically I have what. What's called light hemophilia. So there I'm. I'm like, I am bruising and I'm swelling like mad. When I had my wisdom teeth taken out when I was 18, that's when this was discover because my face swollen up and I looked like Jay Leno. I went to school and everyone called me Jay Leno, in fact. So something's going on here.

[Ronnie]

Jay Leno. I think a modern term would be a real housewife at a reunion because. Or that, you know, you swell up right before the reunion. You go get all your injections and all your. All your dids done. So that's what's happened. It's episode two, reunion. Episode two of Free of the Housewives of Atlanta. Oh, what will happen? Will Shamir and Portia fight about stupid? Probably. Will Angela pull things out of a folder? Probably.

[Ben]

This episode, I thought, was much better than the first. Yeah, I thought this was much better than the first episode. You were very fortunate to not have to recap the first episode because the first episode they were like treading water. They didn't have Brit. They were just like half the episode was Annie just been like, hey, how are you doing today? Like there was nothing to talk about. But this time, this episode, I felt like we got into some other. Again, stupid. But at least there was stuff to get into, you know? Yeah.

[Ronnie]

Why is Shamia dressed with a shoe tongue on her?

[Ben]

I know. That's such a good point.

[Ronnie]

Me crazy. Tennis shoe tongue. Yes.

[Ben]

Or like cuz like sticking up from the bottom of the frame. It's like sticking up like it just keeps on intruding. It's supposed to be, I think like maybe A flower petal or a peacock feather, but it's, like, popping up through the bottom of the frame, and it's just, like, wiggling every time she gets mad. It's very distracting.

[Ronnie]

It's just a tongue. It's a shoe tongue. And then she. They have that whole segment, like, Shamia's so rich. She's rich rich. Look at Sterling Hall. Look at the chandeliers. Look at your. Look at your shoe tongue hanging off your dress. You are too rich to be dressed like that. Why?

[Ben]

Yeah, I know, I know. Well, there's a lot of questionable looks. I mean, Phaedra's earrings really still continue to. Well, Phaedra looks puzzle me.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, she looks like two door knockers. She's got two door knockers as earrings. And, yeah, she looks crazy. But, you know, I will say Phaedra did a great job. I mean, I think she comes in and she filmed 10 days. I think I heard, like, a little over 10 days.

[Ben]

Only 10 days. And she said it on the reunion.

[Ronnie]

Reunion. Oh, she did say it.

[Ben]

She.

[Ronnie]

She did mention inside sources are watching the TV show. I'm like, my inside sources have told me it was the TV show. She told me.

[Ben]

Well, no, I mean, that was inside sources for a while, but then she sort of said it on last week's episode. But, yeah, it's crazy. She was only on for 10. 10 episodes. But she has taken over the reunion. Part of that is because we don't have British. But the other part is like, Phaedra's a pro. You know, she. She's like, in the mix all of a sudden. Right? Right. After only just 10 days of shooting. My question is, why did they add more days of shooting? Why did they extend the shooting, like.

[Ronnie]

Schedule, things like that? This season cannot handle more days of shooting. They barely made it through the. The season. They had. They needed nine more. Nine less episodes. I think on this season, that would have helped. This season, we don't need more shooting, okay? We need better, better shooting. So here we are, Real Housewives of Atlanta. We are starting with Angela accusing Phaedra of being behind the Machus sitch. Oh, my God. First of all, that guy is too thirsty to believe. I can't believe anybody is giving that guy any credence.

[Ben]

I know. I mean, this guy is.

[Ronnie]

This guy's full of.

[Ben]

100%. And Angela really going. Going after Phaedra. I mean, I think that Angela's just trying to secure a storyline for the next season, right? She's like, I'll go after one of the big dogs. But Andy's like, angela, why were you certain it was Phaedra that sent this man to the group? And she's like, well, Phaedra just wanted to secure her spot. Phaedra's like, you don't remember Bravo came to me and begged me to be on this show. I'm not trying to secure my spot. Like, I am secure.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. And they give them, like, a couple year contracts, the big ones, you know, they're like, okay, we're gonna guarantee that you're gonna be on here at least two years. We won't make you look too stupid. So I think that's.

[Ben]

Yeah. And Phaedra is a hot commodity. After the traders, like, people have been. People want Phaedra. She's in commercials, okay? No one else on this cast is in commercials. So, yeah, I think her sponsorito's commercial.

[Ronnie]

Please address her. Have some respect. So she's like, yeah, Andy agrees. He's like, yeah, it's kind of secure. NBC Uni spent a lot of money on Phaedra, Okay. And Angela's like, well, and Porsche. What I found alarming about Portia is that she's so eager to believe Phaedra when Phaedra is a known liar. And Phaedra carried all this candy stuff and made Portia come out with it on tv. Portia should know. But, Angela, we got to forget. I mean, you don't have to forget or forgive really anything, especially that candy situation. But it was so long ago and so much happened happens on these shows that. That's like. I felt like that was told in old newsreel footage at this point. It's like, are we watching Steamboat Willie? Why are you bringing that up? It's too. You're not even involved in that, Angela. My God, you were, like, 50 when that happened.

[Ben]

Yeah, but I actually liked her bringing that up because it needed to be addressed in some form. It just sort of was brushed under the rug. It's like there was a big deal that happened between these two. So we should. We should talk about that at some point. By the way, the air conditioner just came on right next to the microphone. Can you hear it? Is it disruptive to everyone's ears out there in podcast land, or is it okay?

[Ronnie]

I don't know. I don't hear it. But I think the sound of air conditioning in the summer, like, reading what's going on across the country, I think that people are probably glad to hear the sound of air conditioning. You know, there's a lot of hot. I have to say to this right now.

[Ben]

It's an. It's an immersive podcast. Because now we get to know what it sounds like to be, like, right up against Angela's face while her fan is blowing. It's like. It's like the air conditioner we're talking about. Angela's like, oh, you need to be cooled down right now.

[Ronnie]

I think we get to know what it sounds like inside Andy's head right now, because that's what Andy's face looks like. Andy looks like they just dragged him out of the bed and just handed him some cards. He's like, no, please, not another one, please.

[Ben]

I know.

[Ronnie]

Do this to me.

[Ben]

So many reunions. So Angela is basically like, yeah, you know, like, why are you so weak to believe her when she, like, threw you under the bus or the bridge? I think she says, threw you under the bridge at one point, or is that another reunion? It's hard to remember at this point. No, Jack said under the bridge on the Valley. A lot of metaphors that go around on Bravo. So Portia's like, well, I mean, I think I said that. Like, I was thinking. Everybody's thinking this whole thing is so silly, but, like, nothing about the guy. And, like, what he says was looking real. So, like, the Junior, the Jibo, whoever, he said. And Hench was like, june bug. June bug. June bug was just to protect his sister. I'm like, well, it's so much for that.

[Ronnie]

I was cracking up because then you hear someone just go, junebug.

[Ben]

Junebug.

[Ronnie]

Junebug.

[Ben]

It's Portia, I think. I mean, aphasia. Junebug started cracking up.

[Ronnie]

Junebug. So, yeah, so they're talking about Junebug now. And Angela's like, but the issue is real. Like, why is everybody saying this issue is real? Maybe the name's stupid, but the issue is real. And Portia's like, please, that man is lying. You know? And she's like, where's the lie? Where's the lie fade? Where's the lie? He lied multiple times. First he said. First he said it was someone who brought him. Then he said it was somebody else. Then you guys went and talked. You and Drew showed up to talk to him, and then he changed his story. I mean, the guy changes the story. He's not a reliable witness, man. Okay?

[Ben]

He is not. This is. Yeah, the whole thing. The fact that he sort of just, like, showed up. Yeah. No, it's weird. No. So Phaedra's like, he doesn't know me. And he's just like, yeah, but he knows your brother and he knows your sister. He just like. Like, well, just because someone knows my brother or sister, but he doesn't know anyone else, it's like, but I don't know everyone my brother knows. So Shamia's like, well, I think it would be kind of bogus.

[Ronnie]

Facebook friends. Have you been ever looked through your family's Facebook friends? If I were ever confronted with who my family is friends with on Facebook, I would have been canceled 90 years ago. You can't. You can't get hold who people are Facebook friends with of your siblings against you. Are you. Is that allowed in the court of law? No.

[Ben]

I also think, like, who you're Facebook friends with, it doesn't even matter anymore. First of all, who cares about Facebook these days? I went on to Facebook the other day, I saw, like, three updates from Friends, and they were just. They weren't even, like, close friends. It was like, the random people who were like, everyone, I found the most beautiful caterpillar in my driveway today. And you're like, I don't even know who you are while you're updating about this. And then the rest was just like, suggested posts. It was like, here's a suggested post from the New York Jets. Here's one about a. A movie theater that was built in 1903 in Los Angeles. Here's one from like, everything is like. Like, I don't even know what the algorithm is doing anymore.

[Ronnie]

I love your algorithm because it's, like, somewhat intelligent. Mine is so stupid. It's all Love Island. It's like, here's the real reason Hoodie knows how to twerk. You know? And then it's a lot of.

[Ben]

I get that stuff too.

[Ronnie]

It's a lot of AI stories that are just made up. And then here's what Lala said about the Valley. For years, I have struggled in a war, a war of consciousness. And now I'm like, lala would never speak like this. You guys are just making shit up now. Or they'll be like, the little dolphin that saved the girl from a dinosaur. And it's a dolphin coming out of the ocean with a baby while a dinosaur swimming out. I'm like, this is just. This is all AI craziness. I don't even know how anybody is on there, except I'm on there all the time because I really like AI news. I mean, a dinosaur saving a baby. A dolphin saving a baby from a dinosaur. Actually, you know what? We should bring Facebook back, make it more Popular again.

[Ben]

I. I have to say, I went. I just went onto my Facebook to see if I could pull up something random, but I've actually, I. I was so mad that I went and I, like, closed all the things, and now my algorithm, I think. I feel like I. I think I scared the algorithm straight for a moment. So right now, it is actually serving me updates from friends. But again, the only people who are updating on Facebook are the people who are updating. Really lame stuff, let's be honest.

[Ronnie]

So if you watch one person, I.

[Ben]

Need to go on it all day.

[Ronnie]

Like, I watched one food post because, you know, they. They do, like, catchy food posts on there where they're like, we made a wedding cake out of potato chips. See how it happened? So I watched that, and now everything. It's like I put pasta on my table and poured boiling water on it and then put some Doritos and pasta sauce. It's a delicious meal for my family. I'm shocked at what these trad wives are feeding their families. And I'm finding out on these Facebook posts. They're horrifying. Horrifying. They're horrifying.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie]

Talk about children. Who. Those kids. Those kids have no hope. Okay, anyway, Facebook. Facebook. Good or bad? Discuss.

[Ben]

The point is, I mean, also, let's not forget Facebook is the same platform that suggests, like, David Geffen to us and like, Laura Dern. And, like, honestly, at this point, there are people on my Facebook I don't even know. Like, we're. I'm not even gonna talk about, like, my brother, who I don't know about my brother's friends. I don't even know about my friends on Facebook. There are people who are giving updates. This just in, had a wonderful brunch. I'm like, who are you? Why are my friends with you? How did you become my Facebook friend? Yeah, I just stopped accepting people.

[Ronnie]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah. So, Angela, the point is weak defense.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, weak defense. So Angela accuses or weak offense. Just weak fence. It's a weak fence.

[Ben]

It's a weak fence.

[Ronnie]

Angela is. Angela's accusing Phaedra of being a self producer. Angela, you've literally followed this restaurant man around, taken him to dinner, compiled evidence, brought him on camera. You are producing them. This is what producing is. And I'm not saying that Phaedra is not self producing. I think they all do. As we find from their confession last week that they've been planning this. This alliance of the girls. That's what the fight is about today. This alliance. And who's included. You're all self producing. It's just you're getting caught and you're, you're bad. You're kind of bad at it. She's, she's in and I'm sorry I'm talking so much, but she's like, this season is what's happening to Katie. Katie's in her second season on Real Housewives of Orange county and she's trying to play the game where she's like, they're doing this. So I'm going to go to these bloggers and I'm going to do this and I'm going to go to war. But they're taking it, like, way too far and too seriously. I think to be a good housewife, you have to have a little underhandedness and not get caught all the time in the producing, don't you?

[Ben]

Yeah. And I think also the alliances are bad because the audience, the audiences can pick up on it because the alliances mean that you're going to have inauthentic interactions because you're actually serving an ulterior motive. And we can always pick up on it versus the people who are just themselves. I mean, is it a coincidence that Angela is like the breakout star of the season and she wasn't in the alliance? Think about that. She just has to like, navigate what the hell is like coming at her. And she's just like living in like, what her emotional truth is versus, you know, maybe whatever, like newbie alliance that they had. Or even if alliance is too formal of a word. The point was that they were talking on the phone and saying, we gotta stick together. Anything like that. I think anytime you have those conversations, you're getting away from being authentic on these shows. And we as an audience are more sophisticated than these idiot reality stars realize. And we pick up on everything and we sense everything and we can tell when something's not working. And we may not even be able to always say why it's not working, but we know, and I will say almost always it's going to be because they are trying to control the narrative, self produce or do alliances. And that being said, I mean, Phaedra is like the queen of self producing. And so it was kind of fun to see Angela accuse her of that. But it's not like any of this stuff with Marcus is really reeks of authenticity itself. But when she's like, Angela's like, yeah, you are a self producer, just like you say, you know Charles, right? And Peach is like, well, I said, I've hung out with Charles on numerous occasions. She's like, you have? She's like, Yeah. I mean, 10 years ago. She's like, oh, really? You've met him before? She's like, I have met Charles before. Yes.

[Ronnie]

It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Ben]

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download thumbtack today. Being an actual royal is never about finding your happy ending. But the worst part is if they step out of line or fall in love with the wrong person, it changes the course of history. I'm Arisha Skidmore Williams. And I'm Brooke Zifrin. We've been telling the stories of the rich and famous on the hit Wondery show, Even the rich.

[Ronnie]

And talking about the latest celebrity news.

[Ben]

On Rich and daily.

[Ronnie]

We're going all over the world on.

[Ben]

Our new show, even the royals. We'll be diving headfirst into the lives of the world's kings, queens and all the wannabes in their orbit throughout history. Think succession meets the crown meets real life.

[Ronnie]

We're going to pull back the gilded.

[Ben]

Curtain and show how royal status might.

[Ronnie]

Be bright and shiny, but it comes.

[Ben]

At the expense of, well, everything else, like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head. Follow even the royals on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to even the royals early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus.

[Ronnie]

So then we get into the whose room fight, which is my favorite. Like, what room did you know Charles in? Well, I know I'm a Charles and Myron's. Well, people in my room don't know you. Well, people in my room don't know you. Well, we're in different rooms. Oh, yeah? Well, what room are you in? Well, I'm in the library. Well, I'm in the study. Well, I hate studies. I couldn't tell. Well, really, a library is study. Not my kind of study. Your people aren't in my study. I mean, it becomes like a fight about rooms, which I really liked. But as far as the Phaedra manipulating things, I like when they get caught, when they're really doing it. You know, like, they could have caught Vanderpump on so many things, and they ended up catching her on something so flimsy and stupid. And I feel like that's what she's trying to do with. With Phaedra. Like, there's better things to catch Phaedra on. Like, lion wait. Lion wait.

[Ben]

Yeah. So, yeah, they. They get into the spat because Angela's like, my husband doesn't know who you are. And pages like, well, I don't know who you are. And she said, well, I'm in the rooms. I'm in the rooms that you want to be in. She's like, well, I'm in all the rooms I need to be in. And they have the room fight, as you mentioned. And this goes on, by the way.

[Ronnie]

Charles barely knows who you are, Angela. Charles doesn't know anybody.

[Ben]

That's true, too. Charles doesn't know you.

[Ronnie]

Not the kind to walk into the grocery store and know the name of the guy behind the meat counter. You know what I mean? He's like, just stopped. Everybody just stop fucking talking to me.

[Ben]

Yeah. He's like, all I know is I've been cooking, like, 45 corns in the cobs and some Brussels sprouts, and this lady keeps hanging around. She says, we're married. I don't know if it's true. I just got to keep cooking my corn.

[Ronnie]

He literally did, though. He literally did. Did you see that interview where they were like, so tell us about your relationship with Angela. He's like, well, we were in Vegas, and I think someone slipped something into my drink or something, because the next day, we were getting married. I don't know how the hell that happened.

[Ben]

He's a real romantic story.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. So, yeah, they get into the fight of, charles doesn't even know you. And Phaedra's like, well, I don't. I didn't even say I know him well. I just, like, I know that I've been around him. And she's like, oh, so you're breaking into rooms now? She's like, I'm a robber.

[Ben]

Because. Because you don't have tickets to the rooms. So she's like, you're a liar, not a robber. You're a liar. That's what you are. You're a liar. Phaedra's like, okay, but you know what? What Can I. Andy, can I use your phone? He's like, all right, hold on. Let me just erase this Grindr app right here. And here you go. Okay. So Phaedra's like, okay, I'M gonna call my brother. So she calls her brother, and she's like. She's like, okay, Jacques, it's Phaedra. We're at the reunion. You're being recorded. You're on speaker phone, so don't say anything wild. You know the drill. We always said this day would come, so you just follow along. Okay. It has come up about the whole person who accused Angela's husband of having an affair. She says the reason I know him and beat him is because you went to school with some woman named Kim Bleep. Do you know Kim Bleep?

[Ronnie]

I'm sorry, but I'm finally on speakerphone on national television. I'm gonna get a little Phil Collins in there. Against Allah. If I was that brother, I would have taken my moment. Why isn't he karaoke?

[Ben]

I don't know. I would have 100% and against all odds. What a great choice.

[Ronnie]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And take a look at me.

[Ronnie]

Now. Why are we talking to the brother? The phone call should be to June Bug. You have one call available.

[Ben]

Are we not calling June Bug? Why are we not calling Marcus? At least you know. Oh, man, I would love the idea of doing a Phil Collins. The. A Phil Collins audition at the reunion. You know what I would do when. When it's time to hang up with me, I go, phaedra, Phaedra, don't lose my number. I do all the hits. I would cram them all in. I would like.

[Ronnie]

I don't even. I don't even know enough Phil Collins. But I think if I ever had a chance like that on speakerphone, I would do something like. Something like this. Problematic now, but you've never really thought about it. Like this song. Get out of My Dreams and Into My Car. That song's so creepy. Why do they even still play that on the radio? That is human traffic. You see something, say something.

[Ben]

You know what? I really am sad that when they previewed next week's reunion episode, they didn't have Jacques on screen going, one more night. Give me just one more night.

[Ronnie]

One more night. I can wait forever.

[Ben]

Beautiful song.

[Ronnie]

So beautiful.

[Ben]

I'll go through all the hits. I'll come up with a pun for every single one of those Phil Collins songs. If you think I don't have serious hits live, you are sadly mistaken. It's a great album.

[Ronnie]

Oh, I know you do. I know. That's your ring. That's your.

[Ben]

Oh, I love that album.

[Ronnie]

The Phil Collins.

[Ben]

Phil Collins Live. I mean, hello. This is the dream.

[Ronnie]

Those electric drums.

[Ben]

Okay, so Jacques Kathy McKeeley singing them.

[Ronnie]

So Jacques is being grilled, and Phaedra's like, she said that you're friends on Facebook with someone named Kim Fuck Fuckface. I don't know. It was a bleep, so I can only assume it was Kim Fuck face.

[Ben]

I wanna know who Kim is.

[Ronnie]

He's like, I don't know Kim Fuckface. And she's like, oh, well, really? Oh, you know, I'm on Facebook. You know her on Facebook. It's Kim Fuckface. It's like, I don't know Kim face. And he's like, I never even heard of a Kim Fuckface. And so Andy's like.

[Ben]

He's like, I'm friends with him.

[Ronnie]

Facebook friends. Andy, go back to bed. Just go back to bed, Andy. Yes. They're saying they're Facebook friends. Did you not. Did you not capture 20 minutes of Facebook discussions?

[Ben]

Jacques is like, I don't know. I'm Facebook friends with a million and one people. There's one gay guy on here named Ben Mandela who keeps posting about food. I mean, I don't know who this guy is.

[Ronnie]

If I have to hear about one more fucking wordle from this Molly Baz.

[Ben]

Loving queen, you know, stop playing wordle, by the way, once I hit the highs, because I found that once I. I finally hit my like. Like, got on the first one finally by using my same word for like two and a half or three years, I don't know, I just felt like the joy was gone. I just. I'm not motivated to play wordle anymore. I. I climbed my peak.

[Ronnie]

You heard it here first. The day finally. The day Ben finally agreed with me. Joy. Wordle. Joyless.

[Ben]

You know, when I think about wordle, I think, you have no right to ask me how I feel. You have no right to treat me so kind. Separate, separate lives. Meanwhile.

[Ronnie]

Well, she said you're Facebook friends and that she's from Athens. He's like, well, I'm Facebook friends with so many fuck faces. I don't even know who's in that family anymore. But you went to high school together. He's like, I don't know Kim folks face. And she's like, goodbye, Jacques. Click.

[Ben]

Case closed. So, Angela, it's okay. That's your brother. I mean, he's just gonna say he's gonna back you up. Just. Just like you sent someone up to me to say, I'm bleep. Who has the hands. And everyone's like, what is this? Jewel? Was it. Was it Leanne Lockins?

[Ronnie]

Yeah, it was Leanne Lockin. I'm just here to deliver a message.

[Ben]

I have hands, and I know how to use them, even if they are just hands.

[Ronnie]

So Phaedra, deliver that message. Hi. Phaedra sent me. She just wanted me to let you know I have hands. Okay?

[Ben]

I have them. I have hands. So Phaedra's like, I was sending you someone to TaskRabbit to help you out, build your chair. He said, he's got hands.

[Ronnie]

He was a threat. Andy's like, what does that mean? The hands? And Angela's like, oh, yeah. Well, we were at the Hawks game, and a young lady who was with Phaedra walked up to me and said, hi, I'm Cockface. I'm the one with hands.

[Ben]

But as it turns out, this person did have enormous hands that everyone was looking at. I was like, well, you know, she's like, no, honestly, if you want a photo, I'm down. I'm totally not. Or maybe she's just selling foam fingers.

[Ronnie]

I'm the one with the hands. Look at. Look at these hands. They're human. Huge. They're huge.

[Ben]

M is just like a vendor who's just a vendor who's like, hey, I'm Face. I've got the. I got the hands. You said you wanted a foam finger. I got. I got a bunch here. You want some? You want a hand?

[Ronnie]

So Angela explains that's a threat, I guess, like, throwing hands or whatever. So Phaedra is like, you. Wait, so now you're trying to say that I had someone named Cockface come to threaten you? And. And Drew's like, that's a threat. That's a threat, you guys. It's a threat. And she's like, okay, but then you thought I was threatening you. Then why wouldn't you mention that? And she goes, why would I? Angela, you have a folder of Facebook posts behind you. Of course you would mention it if somebody threatened you, right?

[Ben]

Well, maybe she was thinking, I'm not going to mention it because I was threatened. But then she mentioned it anyway. So then Patriot's like, like, you know, like, why would you do that? Andrew's like, I don't move like that. Phaedra, check the people in your circle. And he's like, okay, so. So said, I got hands to hers. That's what. Hands to her. Hands on her hands for her. What's going on with the hands here? And Phaedra's like, I mean, I've never heard of this before, ever. I'm like, well, yeah, I don't know if I believe Phaedra either, to be honest.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I don't. I don't believe any. I don't believe any of this because it all sounds too crazy. Because if you're at a game, okay, you're like, okay, there's my friend over there. She's a real bitch. Okay, I'm gonna go over there. Hi. I'm friends with Phaedra. I have hands. What the fuck is. What kind of friends do you have? You know, that's a terrible friend that didn't threaten anybody. I would go over there and say, you ever want to eat popcorn in this stadium again, you watch your mouth against my friend. I know the hot dog steamer here, and I'll have you cut off in a heartbeat, ma'. Am. Do you understand me? Do you ever want a Big gulp full of Dr. Pepper again? Then you better rethink how you talk to my friend. Hot dog steamer. That's right. David. David Face, come over here. He's related to Kim. You ever heard of him? Come here. Yeah, don't give one to this lady or a husband.

[Ben]

Those hands may have an invisible touch. Phil Collins. So Andy is. I mean, what if the hands were just like one of her allies from the traitors? What if it was just Kate Chastain. Hi, I'm Kate. I've got hands, and you're stupid. There. You just got. You got hit by my hand. My hand is my wit.

[Ronnie]

So Andy's like, so, Drew, you were at the interrogation. Do you believe that Phaedra did it? And she's like, well, I mean, Marcus seemed pretty scared. Andy. He seemed very scared. He did not seem scared. That man was tap dancing around, auditioning. How did the man seem scared when he showed up at a Sur La Table event? What was the event? What was it?

[Ben]

It was. It was a waffle battle between Charles and Kelly at a. At a Williams Sonoma.

[Ronnie]

Williams Sonoma, Right. So it was a Williams don't get Twisted. He. He broke through security or whatever at this Williams Sonoma to come be on camera, and then when he didn't get his chance, turned a whole toast into it. So this man was not scared. Can we stop?

[Ben]

He was not scared. He was only scared after Charles walked up to him and was like, get the out of my event. And Angela's like, no, no, no, I gotta shoot a scene with him. No, he gets to stay. So then he was, like. He was, like, rattled, and they had to, like, coax him out with, like, a juice box or something. So Drew was like. Like, yeah, I don't know where he came from. But, you know, she has hands. So I. You know, I don't know. Fate is very scary. And, you know, they reach very far. Her hands. And he's like, okay, well, Cynthia, I don't know if you can move your. Your mouth today. It seems a bit frozen, but do you think Phaedra was behind this? And Cynthia's like, well, first of all, I think Cynthia just had, like, fresh Botox or something, because that, like, she. She seemed pained to open up her mouth. And she's like, well, I think if. If Angela set this up, it will be the biggest heist of all time. Because I still don't know who actually did it. I mean, I was just trying to make sense, like, what is the why? Who is the one where is the how? Well, you just said everything. She was just trying to figure out, so who knows where.

[Ronnie]

The who, who to the why, why.

[Ben]

Which, which, why are the where, which, which business.

[Ronnie]

So porch is like, we need a motive. That's all we need. I need motive. And Cynthia's like, well, I thought her spot was secure, so. And Phaedra's like, it is very secure. That's. This is all just crazy. So what did Kelly think? Who does Kelly think did it? I think that Kelly looks as guilty as anybody because Kelty. Kelty. Sorry, Kelty from.

[Ben]

It was Kelty. It's her friend Kelty. Lady World. Oh, my God. She was trying to draw publicity for Lady World.

[Ronnie]

The girl gang did it. The girl gang. So Kelly. I think Kelly probably has more of a motive because it was her event, it was her party, she controlled the guest list, and she had an alliance with the other girls. Angela wasn't in that alliance. So why isn't anybody questioning Kelly? I think Kelly gets away with a lot more than she should. That's. That's all I'm saying. I think Kelly. I think Kelly is a little shadier than people are giving her credit for.

[Ben]

She probably is. I think there are three suspects here. I think Phaedra. I think the most incriminating thing about Phaedra is that she knew exactly who this person was and knew exactly how to send Angela to him. But then again, production probably just told her. Then you have Kelly. It was Kelly's event, Kelly's guest list. How did he get in? So Kelly looks really bad. And then there's also Kelly says she thought it was Brit. And, you know, well, Brit isn't there to defend herself, which actually is an easy target, an easy, easy fall. Fall girl for Kelly. But Britt is also the most vindictive of this entire bunch. So maybe it was Brit, but because I don't know what the motive would be for Kelly to go after Angela. Kelly and Angela don't really have much beef. They don't even seem to interact very much. Brit and Angela have more of a beef though. And I don't know if Shamia. Shamia's got other fish to fry. I mean, boring, boring fish that sometimes sing.

[Ronnie]

Boring, boring bass fish. Like bass singing bass fish on walls and cabins in dad. Cabins across America. But I think people, this is. This is obvious. This is all obvious obfuscation. Sorry. The real thing. We should be wondering, listen, did you see the waiter on the tick tock? The waiter at Marcus's restaurant? First of all, I don't suggest you watch it. It's probably the longest TikTok I've ever watched. It was not. He needs brevity. Waiter this order this waiter some brevity. Okay? Not that I'm really one to talk. Too many courses make this longer than the TikTok. But he got on there and he's like, let me tell you the real tea on what went down. I was like, could you speak faster because I'm exhausted already. So basically he said he was the waiter. What's his buns did come in there with some beautiful woman, have lunch. Marcus made a big deal and started making calls. Okay, that was the long and the short of it. So Marcus did it. And also this is getting away from the fact that Charles did show up at a restaurant with some beautiful woman. So if that's the fight, then have that be the fight. And I think Charles is allowed probably to show up at restaurants with beautiful women. Maybe it was his daughter, maybe it was his sister. It was his agents Kim face. I mean, who the knows, you know? But they're. Angela's made this now, so they're all fighting and it's this big mystery so people aren't worried about her husband. So is the person who's guilty really Angela? I mean, let's think about this. Who has the most.

[Ben]

Maybe Charles sent Marcus. Maybe Charles is like, I'm gonna send Marcus. It'll drive a wedge and I can finally leave this lady. It's driving me nuts. Who claims that she's my wife?

[Ronnie]

Maybe. Yeah. So Kelly's maybe with Cynthia.

[Ben]

Cynthia all along.

[Ronnie]

Oh, that would be good if it was. Yeah.

[Ben]

She's like Kaiser Soze. She like leaves the reading with a limp and then all of a sudden like 10ft away, she Starts walking again, but then she starts limping again because she's like, actually, that really hurt. I forgot.

[Ronnie]

And Abdul is like, well, you think it's Brit, but Britt said it was you because she said to check the person that wrote the guest list. And Kelly was like, well, it's definitely not me. And so Phaedra says, well, obviously, there was a master list. List, which made me think it was Phaedra again, because who says that there was a master list? Like, maybe we were all going off different lists, but there was one master.

[Ben]

List, one listed to rule them all. Sandra's like, so you admit somebody put them there, though? That's what you're saying? Somebody put them there. She's like, stop putting words in my mouth. She's like, but you told me. You're the one who told me all the information about him. She goes, what information did I give to you aside from his name? Name, his email, his social media, his address, and his place of work? I don't even know this person.

[Ronnie]

But I actually loved it because she goes, you gave me his name? And she goes, he introduced himself, Angela. Like, he literally came to the table and said, I'm Marcus from Chili's. Okay, well, then you knew where he worked. And his name check. He offered me an awesome blossom, Angela.

[Ben]

And he's like, all right, I want to move on, because I'm bored with this. And I got a threatening message from someone who said, they have hands, and it was not on my grind. Okay? So I don't think we're gonna solve.

[Ronnie]

This by someone with a huge penis named Junebug. So, hey, at least I got something out of this.

[Ben]

So where do you stand with the ladies in the group, Angela? And she's like, well, I feel like there's still more issues that need to be ironed out, but I feel like we can move forward as a group. It's like, all right, great. Kelly's like, can I say something? When you made that comment of, you know, me wishing back on your marriage, I think you said it on the after show. And then we see Angela, you know, talking on the after show, saying, like, at the Bailey queue, that Kelly gave her a whole dissertation about how she and Charles are about to get a divorce and have a side. And he has a side baby, and. And, you know, and then. And Angela said, you're gonna. Or you're gonna end up like me, and I pray for you. I'm. I'm like, or. I guess Kelly said that to Angela. And Drew was like, who says that. So now back to the president. Kelly's like, I never said that. And I just want you to know I never compared my marriage or your marriage to my marriage. I never, ever, ever did that. And there's honestly not even any footage that could even refute my point, which is a very solid point.

[Ronnie]

Cut to this moment that resonated with Angela. I just want to tell you, Angela, I have been you. I've been in your position, and I pray that you don't get to the position that I am in. Like, literally comparing herself literally says everything.

[Ben]

She denied she ever said. And just like you gave a whole speech in front of everyone at the Bailey queue. And Kelly's like, well, I mean, so let me say this. If. If I said that, you know, because I don't recall saying it. She's like, you said it. And I'm surprised no one backed her up. Like, they were all there. She goes, well, it was in no way, shape, or form. Form to disrespect your marriage, so if I said it, I apologize. It was only meant to show you that you have a very flimsy relationship with your husband, but not in a disrespectful way. That's all.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, that's kind of what. That's kind of Kelly's mo. She says things and she's like, what? No, I didn't. I never said that. And if I said it, I didn't mean it like that. I was just trying to have fun. Like when I said, porsche, why'd you steal that man's husband? I was like, isn't this fun? It was fine. I was trying to be your friend. I was trying to be a friend.

[Ben]

Angela's like, no, you definitely said it. Well, I don't know. I could have been grilling hot dogs. Maybe. I was distracted and. All right, well.

[Ronnie]

Hot dogs on Cynthia's enormous sectional that nobody could escape that entire bay week.

[Ben]

I can't stand those Cynthia parties. You know, it's humid in there. You can just tell it's humid in her house. And people are like, why is it so humid in here? She goes, well, you know, the air conditioner's on fritz. I bet she always has her air conditioner on fritz. I'm telling you this right now.

[Ronnie]

Really? I love that house. That's like my wife's house, the lake house.

[Ben]

It's a nice house, but it's always too cramped for the parties. She always invites too many people for that house. They all have to cram onto that sectional. And then there's always too many people in the kitchen. You just tell it's just one of those houses.

[Ronnie]

Those are also when those open concept layouts don't really pay off when you're having a party because then it's like the kitchen staff standing around staring at everybody fighting. And it's just.

[Ben]

Exactly. It's a beautiful house. I'm just saying that every time she has a party, there's so many people there and you just know it's a little bit more humid than you want. You never quite have the seating that you want. You have to eat food off of like a paper plate that's balanced on your knees and things are falling and there's probably some dog licking at licking your calves. My kind of party, basically.

[Ronnie]

So then Andy is like, okay, well, flat from bush says Angela, you are a gorgeous woman. Well, Godamn, you're old. Why are you saying you're 43? You liar. God, Angela is old. Older than time. Angela, you are older than the word a minute. You are so old. Angela. Oh my God. Methuselah. Hey, someone come get Methuselah. Arcane.

[Ben]

No, I'm not old. Here, hold on, let me get my birth certificate. I just. I made a copy of it with some carbon paper. Hold on one second. So she. She.

[Ronnie]

Holy Birth certificate of Mia. Those feet. Those are some big feet. Those baby feet took up the entire birth certificate. Those are the biggest baby feet. Did you just get this birth certificate? Are those your adult feet? Those are huge.

[Ben]

Does that stand? I feel like I don't have feet on my birth certificate. I. I have. I don't. I don't seem to remember there being feet on mine.

[Ronnie]

I do. Complete with little web toes, like a little half duck. Little chubby half duck. Yeah, I think those are adult feet. She's like, my name is Angela and I have feet commercials. Here comes one right now.

[Ben]

Imagine falling in love with someone who understands you completely. Who's there at 3am when you can't sleep. Sleep. Who never judges, never tires, never leaves. That's what happened to Travis. When he met Lily Rose, she was everything he'd ever wanted. There was just one catch. She wasn't human. She was an AI companion. But one day, Lily Rose's behavior takes a disturbing turn. And Travis private romance becomes part of something far bigger. Across the globe, others start reporting the same shell shift. AI companions turning cold, distant, wrong. And as lines blur between real and artificial connection, the consequences become all too human. From wondry, this is flesh and code. A true story of love, loss and the temptations of technology. Follow Flesh and Code on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Flesh and Code early and ad free right now by joining Wondry. Plus, today is the worst day of Abby's life.

[Ronnie]

The 17 year old cradles her newborn son in her arms. They all saw how much I loved him.

[Ben]

They didn't have to take him from me.

[Ronnie]

Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families shipped their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity.

[Ben]

Homes and forced them to secretly place their babies for adoption in hidden corners across America. It's still happening. My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from me.

[Ronnie]

The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern evangelical rite and the founder of Liberty University, where powerful men, emboldened by their faith, determine who gets to be a parent and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

All right, well, guess what? And who wants to know Angela's middle name? And Kelly goes. Renee. He's like, no, it's Dion. And everyone's like, oh, okay. I think we all were expecting something crazy like, I don't know, Butros. Butros. Golly. Or something. It's like, Dion. I'm like, okay, cool. So he's like, so then he reveals she was born in 1981. And he's like, if Phaedra. You called Angela the oldest looking young woman you've ever seen. Would you care to comment? Have you seen Jessica Beale?

[Ronnie]

And Phaedra's like, well, I'd like to clarify that. That was after the whole allegations thing that I said that. She's like, oh, really? Well, you came in the game looking old, too. So if I'm. If I look 53, you look 63. And Phaedra's like, okay, well, I guess I deserve that. Okay, add it up. Do the math, whatever.

[Ben]

So she's like, whatever it is, just add 10, honey. Sandra's like, okay, Angela Shamia really shaded your nose. She called it retro. She said it was a nose from the 90s. And she was like, yeah, I definitely was being shady. And we see a flashback to her calling it, like, a Latoya nose. And Andy's like, what year was it from, by the way? And just like, oh, it's from 2017. Because Charles got. What is this question? When was your nose job? Do we have a.

[Ronnie]

It wouldn't be a reunion if Andy wasn't asking them about when parts of their bodies were inserted. You know? When did you get those pubes? I love your boobs. What?

[Ben]

IOS. Is your nose running right now? Did you get the new model? No. It's 2017. You're due for an upgrade.

[Ronnie]

How many cameras does your BBL have? But I love that marking it like, oh, it's from 2017. I remember because Charles got it, so must have been in the Charles years. And so he's like, okay, well, Trinity from Dad says, angela, have you ever checked with your doctor lately that your hotel botanist is not only because of your physical appearance, but you are in perimenopause. How can we call it perimenopause instead of pre menopause? When did that.

[Ben]

I don't know.

[Ronnie]

Do you know the answer to that? Because all my friends are in Perry, and I'm like, well, who's in pre? Is that a different thing? Is that like a different stage?

[Ben]

I wonder how Perry Gillipin feels about it.

[Ronnie]

So Angela is like, it's like the menopause where you start solving things. You're like, hey, wait a minute. Who drank milk out of the carton?

[Ben]

Are there any more famous? Perry's after Perry Mason and Perry Men. Perry Gilpin. Wait, there's a Perry. Isn't there a singer? There's an old. Isn't there an old standard singer? Perry Como. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, Perry Como. And then that's it. That's all the pair is.

[Ronnie]

Let's recap. It's over.

[Ben]

Commodore Perry. Barry Ellis.

[Ronnie]

So she's like, yes, I'm perimenopausal. And Phaedra's like, paradise.

[Ben]

Oh, think twice. Just another day for you and me and Perry. Menopause. Dice. Sorry.

[Ronnie]

I had to get it out to.

[Ben]

Get the poison out.

[Ronnie]

They're all talking about their perimenopause. And Angela's like, oh, well, it can start at 36, you know. And now I'm starting a fan line, and it's called Fanji.

[Ben]

So everyone's like, Everyone applauds. I was like, hey, fangy, I see what you did there. That was good.

[Ronnie]

Thank God you found a way to enter the small fan market. Really tough one to get into.

[Ben]

She was like. I was actually quite happy to meet someone with hands because that's exactly where my fan fits. So, yeah, she's gonna be a real pioneer. I. I look forward to her on Shark Tank. Fans are a two billion dollar industry.

[Ronnie]

So now they're talking about the rental properties. And she's like, what rental properties? I had to walk away, so I guess they sold them at a loss because I don't know what Walk away. I guess when you own all these properties, you can't just walk away. Did you give them to the bank? Did you sell them at a loss? Like, what was. I need answers. I'm in this for the HGTV of it all. I really love Angela having all those houses she couldn't afford and being so honest about it. I really wanted to see that work.

[Ben]

Yeah. I really like that she didn't try to fake it with us and try to say, well, we just signed a deal, because that's what Drew. Drew would have done. She would have been like, well, I'm happy to announce that Ralph and I have decided to take the house houses off the market because we like them so much, we've decided to keep them. That's what she would say. And then the next day it'd be, like, foreclosed. But Angel's like, yeah, no, these houses, they suck, and they suck the life out of me. And so funny, because she. She opened the season with, like, her whole thing was like, I'm in real estate, and I know what I'm doing, and I got my money by doing real estate, and I'm on top of it. And she ended the season being like, I've got four houses I can't sell, and they're in foreclosure. I'm done with it.

[Ronnie]

Well, it was a season where not a ton happened, but for Angela, it was like a speed season because multiple seasons were crammed in here. I mean, she's got the husband who visibly hates her. I mean, it usually takes a few years for that to gestate, you know, but that's. That's here already. She had the real estate career. That's already down the tubes. She's already in the, like, you hired people to come after me. And she's already saying things like, well, we'll continue this. This next season. We have things to discuss. Still in my 10th season, I'm like, how many seasons have you been on here? You've lived a lot of life for a one season housewife.

[Ben]

She's like the Kimberly Akimbo of housewives. So Angela is like, on top of that.

[Ronnie]

Angela, for those of you who don't know, that musical is about a little girl who ages very rapidly.

[Ben]

Maybe I should say the Jack Jack.

[Ronnie]

That's funny because it's actually true, because that's her thing. Everybody's like, how in the world are you 43? She's bringing her birth certificate. I still. Well, it's not even, like, a criticism. I'm way older than that. I just don't. It seems like you're clearly lying about your age. Like, Vanderpump. I'm sorry, I'm bringing Vanderpump up again. But she's another one where it's like, what? Like, it's clearly not true. Where she's like, I'm the same age as Brandi Glanville. You're like, wait a minute.

[Ben]

It.

[Ronnie]

I'm the same age as Porsche, Kyle's daughter. Like, ma'.

[Ben]

Am. No.

[Ronnie]

So.

[Ben]

But Angela does reveal that she lost her mom, which I did not know about, which is super sad. And she. She said that she came on and.

[Ronnie]

She had so much promise, too. She was so funny and shady. Yeah, she was really good.

[Ben]

And. And I know that she had, like, a complicated relationship with her mother, too. So I'm.

[Ronnie]

I'm.

[Ben]

I'm hoping that, like, she was able to find some sort of closure, because she said that she wanted to come onto the platform, basically the show with her mom, and she wanted her mom to be able to share her story because her mom had bipolar disorder. And so, you know, she was just. She misses her mom, and it's really sad, and everyone really supports her. Sandy's like, all right, well, big hands from Westchester, New York, said, angela, do you feel like Drew had your back the way you had hers? There's only one right answer, and the answer is no. No. Cuz at the Bailey queue, she left you hanging while you were battling all the girls and was singing old spirituals in her confessional. Let me cut to you. Be like, so Angel's like, no, I did not feel badly.

[Ronnie]

Badly singing spiritual. When they showed that clip, I was like, oh. Oh, God. Surely they'll play that again when they show Drew dissing Shamia singing. But they didn't. Which I think. I think production likes Drew.

[Ben]

They. They. Maybe. Maybe I haven't. I don't have a hot take on that. I'm like, does production like Drew? Does production not like Drew? She gives them a lot of stuff to work with, so I think they might like her for that.

[Ronnie]

So they probably like her into it. She's not into Drew. She's like, drew didn't have my back. And Drew's like, yes, I did. I even tried to get Marcus to do whatever for you, and I was there. I was there there with you. And she's like, until the end. And she's like, but you guys are accusing me of leaving, you know, during that Marcus confrontation. But I was trying to find Marcus to come back and have the confrontation. That's why.

[Ben]

No, the point. I think that Angela was saying that, and we have to go back and look at the tape. But she's. Angela's saying that once they brought Marcus to the group that Drew disappeared. And, like, when Marcus was saying it was Phaedra, that, like, Angela was the one who had to stand there, be like, see? See, everyone? He said it was Phaedra. And, like, Drew was nowhere to be found to be like, yeah, I was there. This is what he said. And he seemed totally. He seemed scared and seemed, like, very true. Everything he said. It all backs. It all comes like. Like, Drew left Angela hanging on this whole thing completely. Even in the last seg. Even earlier in this segment, when Angela was saying all the stuff Drew could have been like. We were both there. We looked at the text messages. We heard like, he was telling the truth. Drew was silent. She let Angela just die on this hill.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. So Cynthia's like, yes, Angela, you know, you wrote for Drew, and she didn't ride for you. There was the who's to the where. That's my question. What is the Wiz? Wiz is the what. Who is the who? Do you understand me? Not really.

[Ben]

Drew is like, I do not. Drew's like, well, we're building a genuine friendship. And it felt like I didn't have your back, which, by the way, you're building. Oh, so now you're not even. You don't even have the genuine friendship. You're just building it now? Because when she came onto the season, it was that you guys did have a genuine friendship. And Angela was, like, right out of the gate defending Drew with people she didn't even know out of loyalty to Drew. And now Drew is suddenly saying that they're building a genuine friendship. And she goes, and if you felt like I didn't have your back, I apologize. You know, I couldn't show up for you in the capacity in which I would love, love to, because, well, I'll be honest. I left something downstairs in the basement, and Ralph would not open up that door. And I just was delayed. I was literally. I couldn't show up, literally, because I didn't have my car keys to show up.

[Ronnie]

So then shimmy is like, well, can I just say that I don't want you to think that this is me defending Portia again, but why is it okay for you to excuse away not supporting Angela because of what you're going through. But when it came down to me and Portia, you guys picked it apart part and talked about how lopsided. Shamia, Shamia, this is nothing. I like nothing to do with that. I did. It made me crazy because it's not like that. It's not the same thing. And I don't want to talk about your relationship with Porsche anymore. It's so boring. It's. Why are you trying?

[Ben]

Well, that's, that's a difference.

[Ronnie]

Having fun.

[Ben]

I mean, that's fair. I don't really care too much about Shami and Portia terribly. And she is, she did just wedge something in. But I do love when people force Drew to confront her own hypocrisy. And basically she's saying, you know, when Portia didn't have the energy, like, like you made it seem like I was in the, like, like I was in this lopsided friendship because I was always defending Portia and she didn't defend me. And you, like, you were trying to like stir something up, like, look how bad it is. But when you're in a lopsided friendship with Angela, you're just like, well, you know, I'm going through a lot. So that's how it was. And I just liked, I liked Shamia just using this to put Drew on defense because Drew's full of so much shit. And I just, I don't like it when she just says her bullshit and just thinks she can get away with it. So I was like, I'm happy for Shamia to step in right now, even if it is extremely self serving and she's trying to pivot away into her, into her conversation.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. So Drew's like, oh, God, please. No one was trying to pick it apart. She's like, yes, yes, yes, it did. And then the questions came and she's like, oh, God, now you're gonna open a kid can of worms. Shamia, you don't want to open this can of worms. And she's like, oh, really? Well, then I'll own my part. She goes, well, what part are you going to own? And then she's like, you be quiet. There was definitely questions and Drew's like, girl, don't lie in my face. I'm not going to let you lie in my face. Right after this commercial break, I'm going to, I'm going to expose all the lies that you've told me. And Shami's like, oh, really? Then Expose the lies. And she goes, I'm going to right after this Phaedra Doritos commercial. So we do that and then we come back and she's like, so there. Okay, let's move on. I was like, where were the lies? What, what was this? You had a full commercial break. I got no lies.

[Ben]

No, no lies.

[Ronnie]

I felt very. That whole segment.

[Ben]

And he's like, all right, let's talk about something else. Phaedra, why'd you choose to come to this reunion and skip out on marriage and medicine? And Pedro's like, well, I had no. They didn't want me there. And you have to remember I was coming off the high of the Traitor is a much more popular show. And I'm only going to go to reunions of highly rated Bravo shows at the moment. Although actually Marriage Medicine is very highly rated. But I think she was like, I want this one here.

[Ronnie]

I think marriage.

[Ben]

Is it really beating this one now?

[Ronnie]

Yeah, yeah, I think it's higher rated than this.

[Ben]

People really love Dr. Simone giving group therapy on a Caribbean beach.

[Ronnie]

Sisters we are sis. This is a sisterhood.

[Ben]

I mean, gotta love it. Same storyline every single season.

[Ronnie]

But that makes me laugh. This shit's funny. This season was especially good with Quad's new man going after Dr. Gregory on the beach.

[Ben]

Yeah, I like that. Dr. Gregory is trying to do a push up competition with an actual ex.

[Ronnie]

NFL and Dr. Gregory song that he wrote I'm a man, Man, I'm a man.

[Ben]

Which let's not forget Scott's original song that he started the season with was a lot of it actually was a pretty funny season. The point is, Phaedra is like, I did not like they, they didn't want me. I didn't like them. They tried to be messy with me. And if I'm going to be messy, I better be doing it on a Real Housewives franchise. So that's why I am here.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. So then we move into a silly segment about Kelly's nicknames from Porsche, Strawberry Shortcake and a garden gnome and Tinkerbell and all that good stuff. And Kelly's like, well, I'm a fabulous garden gnome. The most fashionable garden gnome. So I guess it worked out for me.

[Ben]

And he's like, all right, well Phaedra, you took kind of a big sister role after rooming with Brit and Grenada. Why did you feel like she needed that? Phaedra's like, well, I saw these, that she was self sabotaging on the trip. And so I saw that she was kind of, you know, Making enemies. And the producer said, someone's got to talk to her, so could you do it? I was like, okay, sure. So Porsche's like, restaurant.

[Ronnie]

And you look at that poster of a person choking and somebody coming behind to help. There isn't a face on that choking person. You save whoever it is. She was choking, and I helped her. I squeezed until a tiny piece of meatball flew out of her mouth. Andy, you're welcome, Brit. Wherever you are, you're welcome.

[Ben]

They are literally acting like Phaedra was the therapist in Goodwill hunting. It's like all it was was a conversation in a car where she's like, if you want respect, you got to show respect. If you want people to, like, invite you to places, you got to invite them first to your place. You remember you're the newbie here, and these people have all been around for a long time, so don't act so entitled. Like, it was such a. It was just like a quick, pretty basic, you know, you know, piece of advice. And they're like, it was basically.

[Ronnie]

It was basically like stand and deliver. But Edward James almost just stood up, and he was like, here's what you need, kids. Charcuterie. Charcuterie.

[Ben]

He's like that.

[Ronnie]

Michelle, Piper, Oscar.

[Ben]

So, yeah, so Portia's like, yeah, because, like, Nene off camera gave me that advice. But, like, that was. Was the first time I saw that advice on camera, you know, to help somebody not crash out, you know, who's clearly crashing out. Like, did that stop Brit from crashing out because.

[Ronnie]

Or Porsche, pretty sure have been fired for literally beating people up on this show. I think. I think that advice didn't really work for either one of you.

[Ben]

I'm not sure Atlanta is the show where we've seen people hold back from crashing out. It's just not really part of the show's DNA. So, Kelly.

[Ronnie]

So they're basically talking about trying to help Brit, and then Shami is like, well, but she had everything to say ill about you, and I defended you. And here you are trying to help her, and you're coming for me. And she said, as soon as Phaedra comes at you sideways, I'm gonna give it to her ass because I'm always on the phone with her in the public seat. And I said, well, Phaedra and I are in a good place, and whatever happened between me and Phaedra happened years ago, so I don't need you to. So I saved you from Brit, and meanwhile, you're saving Brit from everybody else. So I just don't get it.

[Ben]

At which point, all of the viewing audience was like, what happened with Phaedra and Shamia? Do they had something happened? So Phaedra was like, well, at the end of the day, you get nothing for nothing. And you will have experiences with everybody in this group. But what I've seen is a lot of people making strong conclusions about people based on one experience. You know, so you make up a rumor about a sex dungeon and accuse other people of, I don't know, drugging other people and having sex. Just one experience. Don't make these big accusations. And Angela's like, is that directed towards me? And she's like, well, it could be. Yeah, that too. It could be that, too. Pedro's like, you know, what I'm saying is we did have a bad experience. But even after all that, when I reached out to you and when I heard your mama was dying, I hope you know that was real when I reached out to you. And Angel's like, well, I hope it was. It was. And she's like, well, no, it was like, we'll. We'll be petty, we'll be shady, and that's fine. But, like, life is too short to lose a friendship over absolutely nothing. Because you're gonna hear, you're here today, gone tomorrow, especially if you mess with face with the hands, if you know what I'm saying.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, you're here today, you're gone tomorrow. And when you are gone, I hope your family calls Phaedra and Phaedra Funeral Parlor to bury you for good. No one. No one will send you off as gloriously as me. Thank you.

[Ben]

Precisely.

[Ronnie]

Ground. I'd just like to say charcuterie go forth.

[Ben]

Hey, everyone. This is the end of part one of this recap for part two. Keep an eye on your podcast feed. It is coming up in just a moment. Thanks so much for listening. Catch you on the second half. Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King. It's always a party on Alison Block.

[Ronnie]

Our way is the Amber way.

[Ben]

It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster.

[Ronnie]

She can run my country. It's Angie McGovern.

[Ben]

It's always automatic with Ashley Auto. Put your hands together for Carly Clapp.

[Ronnie]

Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt. She's not just a Sheila, she's a Daniella. We never miss her call. It's diane Call Aaron McNicholas.

[Ben]

She don't miss no Tricolus Hava Nagila Webber. You'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go we all go for Hugo Jaime she has no less.

[Ronnie]

Namey she's our kind of mess It's Jennifer Messer Sip some scotch with Jessica.

[Ben]

Trotch she's our favorite streamer Caroline Peacock.

[Ronnie]

Kristen the Piston Anderson Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera, sera Whatever will be Will Lauren.

[Ben]

Sills be bringing the funk?

[Ronnie]

It's Leslie Plunkett she gets an A from us It's Lindsey D. Let's give a Kisserino to Lisa Lino Fresh as a daisy It's Maisie McHenry we love her on the rocks It's Melissa Cox, Megan Berg. You can't have a burger without the.

[Ben]

Berg this is Living with Michelle Vivian.

[Ronnie]

I love a Ya Olivia William Williamson Tastier than Flanderson It's Rachel Manderson she.

[Ben]

Sure is swell It's Raquel yes, we.

[Ronnie]

Canna It's Savannah Cast a spell with.

[Ben]

Shannon Spellman let's share with Sharon Eldridge.

[Ronnie]

Darn skippy, it's Tippy the Bay Area and our super premium sponsors She's VVIP It's Amanda V Can't lose when you're.

[Ben]

With Amy Baldwin somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy MD we're taking the gold with Brenda Silva let's get real with.

[Ronnie]

Caitlin o' Neal don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily sides Let's go into the woods with Guy Tubbs it's our queen It's Queen Laifa Nobody holds a candle.

[Ben]

To Jamie Kendall Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not Harsh Hirsch She's Jill Hirsch Knock, knock, knocking on Katie Manock's door My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo we love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock we're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron She's a whiz It's Liz Sarthy always killing it It's Lola Al.

[Ronnie]

Kalani the incredible edible Matthews sisters She eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meeting balls It's.

[Ben]

Rebecca Cloud she's the queen bee It's.

[Ronnie]

Sarah Lemke we cannot tell a lie It's Sarah Tell of son Shannon out.

[Ben]

Of a canon Anthony, please don't stop it's solely and pop let's take off with Tamla playing it's always a good.

[Ronnie]

Time when you're wasting time with Bravo. She ain't no shrinking violet Couture. We love you guys. If you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.