#2944 RHOM S7E7 Part 2: It’s My Party, and I’ll Shame if I Want To

Summary

Podcast Summary: Watch What Crappens - Episode #2944: RHOM S7E7 Part 2: It’s My Party, and I’ll Shame if I Want To

Release Date: July 24, 2025

Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Platform: Wondery

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Introduction

In Episode #2944 of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam dive deep into Season 7, Episode 7 of The Real Housewives of Miami (RHOM), titled "It’s My Party, and I’ll Shame if I Want To." This two-part recap focuses on the tumultuous events surrounding Gertie’s controversial public confrontation with Julia, set against the backdrop of a cancer celebration party. The hosts provide incisive commentary, humorous takes, and critical analysis of the cast dynamics and episode highlights.

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Stephanie's Behavior and Cast Reactions

Ronnie Karam opens the discussion by dissecting Stephanie’s behavior towards her husband Todd, highlighting her annoyance with how Todd gets away with his actions. Stephanie's reactions are described as "catty" and "attitudey," which resonate with Ronnie as authentic despite being perceived as obnoxious by some.

Ronnie Karam (00:46): "She's fear fearless, but she is admittedly obnoxious, too."

The hosts agree that Stephanie’s no-nonsense attitude, especially her refusal to cower to the show's hierarchy, makes her more relatable and genuine. However, they also note that Stephanie's confessionals lack humor compared to her witty attacks.

Unknown Host (04:25): "My only thing really against Stephanie right now is that she's not as funny as everybody else."

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The Cancer Celebration and Gertie’s Public Shame

A significant portion of the episode revolves around Gertie’s cancer celebration, which takes an unexpected turn when she publicly shames Julia by displaying her text messages. The hosts analyze this moment extensively, questioning the authenticity and necessity of such a confrontation in a setting meant to honor cancer survivors.

Ronnie Karam (13:07): "I felt like it felt icky because, you know, it should be about [celebrating cancer survivors], not a petty text message exchange."

The discussion highlights the double standards within the show, comparing Gertie’s public call-out to Julia against previous incidents, such as Julia’s own disruptive behavior at Marisol's wedding party.

Unknown Host (14:26): "The whole situation with Danny... but then they were fine when Danny was pantsed by Jax."

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Double Standards and Cast Hypocrisy

Ben and Ronnie probe into the apparent double standards exhibited by the cast members. They point out that while Gertie faces severe backlash for her actions, similar or more egregious behaviors by other cast members often go unnoticed or are treated differently.

Ronnie Karam (17:06): "These are just petty scheduling texts. Right?"

The hosts argue that the visibility and public airing of text messages create a different impact compared to private confessional segments, leading to heightened reactions and perceived invasions of privacy.

Ronnie Karam (22:15): "Bias is 100%."

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Gertie’s Motivations and Authenticity

Gertie’s motivations for the public confrontation are scrutinized, with hosts suggesting she may be using the situation to settle personal scores rather than genuinely addressing the issue. They debate whether her actions stem from a place of honesty or manipulation.

Unknown Host (12:06): "From this is not to prove who is right or wrong, but to show that Julia is a terrible, terrible friend."

Despite the criticism, Ronnie expresses admiration for Gertie’s fearless approach, acknowledging the complexity of her character and the challenges she faces within the group's dynamics.

Ronnie Karam (02:56): "But I love that she doesn't, like, cower to the hierarchy of the show."

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Cast Dynamics and Group Loyalty

The episode further explores the fractures within the cast, particularly how alliances shift and loyalties are tested. The hosts discuss how characters like Marisol and Alexia align against Gertie, viewing her as too aggressive and "extra," which fuels their support for Julia’s actions.

Unknown Host (16:24): "Marcel and Alexa... were coming for Gertie."

Ben and Ronnie emphasize the strategic maneuvering within the group, where members use conflicts to position themselves advantageously, often at the expense of others.

Ronnie Karam (24:09): "Because, by the way, let's also... let's not also keep acting like Gertie is, like, the easiest person to have a conversation with."

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Humorous Takes and Personal Insights

Amidst the serious analysis, the hosts infuse humor into their commentary, poking fun at the absurdities of reality TV conflicts and the exaggerated reactions of the cast members. They share personal reactions to specific scenes, highlighting the entertainment value mixed with cringeworthy moments.

Ronnie Karam (25:36): "Makes me absolutely, absolutely. God, I love this show."

The hosts also critique the over-the-top theatrics, comparing them to exaggerated TV tropes and questioning the authenticity of certain dramatic moments.

Unknown Host (28:59): "No one has ever been like, we are going to go higher. It's like, well, I think for the..."

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up the episode, Ben and Ronnie reflect on the broader implications of Gertie’s actions and the overall direction of the show. They lament the lack of consistency in how the cast is treated and express frustration over the shallow nature of reality TV conflicts.

Ronnie Karam (43:30): "We love you guys. If you like, watch what crappens."

Ultimately, the hosts endorse watching the show for its entertainment value, despite the flawed and often hypocritical behavior of its participants.

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Notable Quotes

• Ronnie Karam (00:46): "She's fear fearless, but she is admittedly obnoxious, too."
• Unknown Host (04:25): "My only thing really against Stephanie right now is that she's not as funny as everybody else."
• Ronnie Karam (13:07): "I felt like it felt icky because, you know, it should be about [celebrating cancer survivors], not a petty text message exchange."
• Ronnie Karam (02:56): "But I love that she doesn't, like, cower to the hierarchy of the show."
• Unknown Host (16:24): "Marcel and Alexa... were coming for Gertie."
• Ronnie Karam (25:36): "Makes me absolutely, absolutely. God, I love this show."

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Final Thoughts

Watch What Crappens provides a thorough and entertaining analysis of RHOM's latest episode, balancing critical insights with humor. Ben and Ronnie effectively capture the essence of the show’s dramatic moments while highlighting the intricate interpersonal dynamics that make reality TV both captivating and contentious. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual listener, this episode offers valuable perspectives on the ever-evolving landscape of the Real Housewives franchise.

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Transcript

[Ronnie Karam]

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[TJ Raphael]

My name is TJ Raphael. I'm the host of Liberty Lost, a new podcast about who gets to be a mother and the control of young women hidden behind the veil of faith. Binge all episodes of Liberty Lost ad free right now on Wondery.

[Unknown]

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[Ronnie Karam]

Watch what Crap Watch what crap is. Who cares what happens when there's so much crap? Watch what crap. Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens? Hi everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of a two part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. So that way you always get your episodes. But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode. Every time we talk about him, you get. You get tense. Well, I do, because like, it's still my husband. She's like, well. And Mar's like, yeah, still her husband. I really helped out there, huh? So Stephanie's like, she's like, it really annoys me that Alexia lets Todd get away with anything that he says, like wants and does. And Todd like cannot wants to have his cake and eat it too. Like he doesn't even give her a Birkin bag. I mean, I'm just saying that she gets very catty and very attitudy when you bring him up. And she's like, you know, it's like too much.

[Unknown]

Oh, really?

Like, why are you so obsessed with Todd? Like, she doesn't even know Todd. You want to talk. You wanted to start talking about Masoud. You want me to start talking about Massoud? Because I can talk about Massoud, which she will. And you know, there's a lot of lot to talk about there on the Reddit. So I can't wait till Alex, because you know, Alexia already has a folder this thick. Marisol and Alexia are not going to let someone come on this show without a full folder on their asses. So she's like, wait a minute, what episode is this? Because I'm supposed to wait till about episode nine.

[Ronnie Karam]

So yeah, the bottom is going to fall out for sure for Masouda. And we all know it's going to happen. It's so funny because with Stephanie, she really is so Obnoxious because she doesn't know Alexia well enough to sit down and start weighing in and saying these things. Like, she's still way too new, both as, like, a friend and as a cast member. So she's definitely being really rude right now. But everything she's saying, I'm co signing with. I'm like, everything she's saying, I'm like, yeah, exactly. And I love that she doesn't, like, cower to the hierarchy of the show. She's like, no, I'm. Sit here, I'm going to say it to you. And when you, like, try to say that I'm full of myself, I'm. I really don't care. I'm. I'm still gonna say, like, this guy is bad for you. So I really like that. She's fear fearless, but she is admittedly obnoxious, too.

[Unknown]

Well, I think she's trying to be a good girlfriend. Like, in her defense, you know, I think she's trying to be like a girlfriend and be like, no, girl, you got this. Be strong against that man. Like, you just had a narcissist. Because that's what they're all doing, right? And Alexia had them all at a dinner and was like, no, you guys need to tell me. And, like, you need to, like, protect me from thought. And like I said, when I try to go back to him, don't let me go back to him. Like, we already had that whole thing. I mean, Stephanie wasn't there, but. But I think she's trying to be a good girlfriend and be like, no, you got this girl. But, you know, there's a time, like, when the girl is going through the bad problem with a guy. That's when you're like, no, you need to get rid of him. How can I help you get out of this situation? But when they're in a good place, you can never say anything like that because you'll be turned against. I mean, come on, Stephanie. And you can tell Stephanie doesn't have any girlfriends because she doesn't know those. She doesn't know, like, little idiosyncrasies. Just know how to.

[Ronnie Karam]

And actually, that's what I'd like about her. I feel like her confrontation is very authentic. I don't feel like it's like, you know, there's that school of Real Housewives or reality stars that are unlike the Brandi Glanville or, like, Noella or whatever. I can't think of other examples, but we know them. The people who are kind of, like, big, and they're gonna stir the pot, and they're always gonna push buttons, and they're gonna be brash and in your face, and a lot of times, they. You can just see they are really trying to have, like, a reality TV moment. And, like, yes, I'm sure Stephanie is trying to have a moment, but I also feel like this is actually authentically how she would react in this situation too, which is why I think I'd like her more than I thought I would, considering how obnoxious that she is.

[Unknown]

Yeah. My only thing really against Stephanie right now is that she's not as funny as everybody else. But I'm gonna. You know, maybe she just needs more time to warm up. You know what I mean?

[Ronnie Karam]

No, she's not funny. Well, she's funny. No, her attacks are funny, I think, but her confessionals are not funny.

[Unknown]

Yeah, she's just not grabbed me yet. But I'm not necessarily a hater or a lover. I'm just like. I'm a fence sitter. I'm on the fence. So now it's really awkward. So Gertie takes the stage, and she gives a speech about cancer.

Showed me I'm not always in control. And then I controlled cancer. Guess who works for me now. Cancer. Cancer is my secretary. I now support cancer just because it's my employee. And we're like, families. This is taking a weird turn.

I'm giving it benefits.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's gone in ways I didn't expect.

[Unknown]

But it's my choice, my party. And I just had an MRI, and.

[Ronnie Karam]

The MRI results came back, and I am 100. That. That wore a bracelet in the MRI, and I shrugged half my arm off, but whatever.

[Unknown]

So they all cheer, and Julie's like, I've been with.

You've been this. With Marina.

I'm like, oh, Martina, okay, let's not have cancer wars right now. And she's like, but, you know, it's.

Not easy journey, so I'm glad. I'm very proud of my friend.

So Gertie continues, and she gives props to her family, and she literally gives Russell his flowers, and he comes up and he kisses her, and she introduces her sons, and, you know, it's all sweet. And she's talking about how until I.

Breed breast cancer, I didn't know how to redefine my life. But now I will be true to my emotions, and we should all be, by the way. So if you're going to be happy, if you're going to laugh, smile. If you're going to be sad, cry. If you're Going to be mad. Let it out. Thank you for coming. By the way. This is part one. This is only part one, so stay tuned. Stay tuned.

If you're going to publicly shame. Publicly shame someone, they're going to publicly shame someone. Shame them. Now note that you all clapped for.

[Ronnie Karam]

That, so just remember that you clapped.

[Unknown]

I died when she said, don't worry, this is only part one. So stick around. Stick around.

Okay, I'm going to send my family. I'm going to send my family home now. So she sends the family home, and you're like, oh, this is where she's gonna.

[Ronnie Karam]

Then you know, this is where she's.

[Unknown]

Gonna give them to him.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, exactly. Once she sent her kids home because they, like, they have to show it because there are people like me that are like that. I already saw the teaser and then know that the kids are there, and I'm like, what? In turnation is about to happen? And they. They show her sending the kids home, and no one realizes that something is brewing. So there's more chitchat. And Kiki's like, by the way, you weren't at the gala last night. She's like, I was at my best friend's birthday likes. And Stephanie's like, oh, yeah, the gala was so nice. Everybody got along, you know, unlike your party. It became a little.

[Unknown]

And she's like, well, you mean Alexia's party?

[Ronnie Karam]

She's like, oh, yeah, the narcissist party. Yeah, yeah. Like, I caught the Todd party. Because she can't take me telling her that the event was for Todd. I mean, it's fine. It was. You know, I can take it.

[Unknown]

I can take it. But I'm not going to agree with you because the party was not for Todd. It was not.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, okay. The event. Okay. The event wasn't for him. Let me please clear that fact. Okay, Carmen. Carmen, you're here. The event was not for Todd.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

It was inspired by Toddler.

[Unknown]

Oh, you know why? You know why? You know why?

Because Todd is a Greek God.

That's why.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, you're delusional. You're not a delusion.

[Unknown]

That's why you're delusional. So then Gertie gets back on the mic, and she's tapping.

It's like, hello. Hello, Hello. I would like to introduce a special performer. But before I do so, I would like to shed some clarity on a situation that has cast a cloud on some of my friendships, relationships, and my character. Please pretend I'm not reading from a card right now.

And the women are looking around at each other. And so she's like.

As these ladies know, an incident happened a few weeks back. I was willing to forgive and move forward because the water was filtered. Okay, it was filtered water, so I can move on. But then last week, it became clear to me that this person chose to continue to perpetuate the matter even more so tonight, I feel that it is necessary for me to set the record straight by telling the truth and exposing the lies. The lies, the lies, the lies.

Tell me lies. Tell me sweet little lies.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wasn't she reading this off of her phone? Was she reading.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think she went cards. It was one of the two things. She's like a prepared speech.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, she really acted like, the way, as we're about to see. She really acted like she. Like she decided to whip this up last second. And this is, like, so blatantly planned. So now everyone, all of a sudden, we see Julian Grudy's text exchange. It's on the screen, and Adriana's like, oh, no, look. And all. Everyone's like, oh, my God. Text messages. Tense text messages. Did you take any screenshots of them? Because I did not, but I was.

[Unknown]

Like, no, but we are lucky, because our note taker certainly did. Nadine, you're a goddess. Thank you. So here's the text. Gertie. I'll figure it out.

Julia just got back to the room. It's Sunday's party. I had no control over the list. I guess changes were made when Martina canceled. I am sorry. Are you well taken care of?

And Gertie says, to be honest, I was a little taken aback that I was moved to the side for this exclusive party. If I'm supposed to come in as Martina's replacement, I should have been extended the invitation as a courtesy. Especially when I'm leaving the kids, my husband at home to be next to you as your guest. I'm sure you had no control over it.

[Ronnie Karam]

So I think that's a perfectly reasonable response by Gertie, who is a Bravo star who should not have been sidelined. And Julia should have advocated and been like, you have to find a seat for my friend. Otherwise, I'm not coming to this. I'm going to be with my friend. Like, I still think it's really shitty that Julia sided with, like, a Captain Sandy dinner. Like a dinner instead of the friend that she asked to come on the cruise. Like, you have to stick with you. Just like, if. If Gertie had said list. Honestly, don't worry about it. Go to the dinner. I'm gonna go have a meal somewhere else. It's really not that big of a deal. Then fine. But, like, clearly Gertie was upset that she was, like, had to. Was, like, kicked to the side. I think this was shitty of Julia.

[Unknown]

Well, it's on. It's also kind of sick. It's also kind of shitty of Captain Sandy's people to be like, okay, well, Julia, you can come, but your guest can't because it's not Martina. So they're not famous enough. So they're kicked off. Now you have to tell them to go somewhere else. Like, no, you're still going to use, you know, my social cred or whatever for pictures and whatever else. So I don't know. I think it's shitty. So then they continue, and Gertie's like.

Well, considering that I was just trying to be supportive as a friend to you, I was not even in on the reservation for this restaurant that you guys put me at. They're squeezing me in and I'll be okay, but I. But know that I would never let anyone do that to my friend who showed up for me.

And Julia says I didn't coordinate dinner.

All I am thinking about this weekend is Martina's condition. I thought she wanted to be here and would enjoy being here. Otherwise I would never have suggested to join me and leave your kids and Russell, I'm sorry you're upset, but this is a work weekend, and this wasn't done on purpose or to offend you.

I know, and that's why I said yesterday when I. When I saw you and redacted coordinating network opportunities, that you would be okay without me there. Anyway, I'm a big girl, all good here, even though it's not good at all. And I'm just saying that the way I pushed hard to make sure, for example, Adriana wasn't left alone and got her into this thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Ronnie Karam]

So there's some parts that are, like, redacted from the text that they blur out. So I don't know. I still think that, like, this is shitty. So then everyone's watching. It's like. And Gertie tells the audience the goal.

[Unknown]

From this is not to prove who is right or wrong, but to show that Julia is a terrible, terrible friend. And we're going to clear things up so there's no more doubt that no one should ever hang out with Julia. Thank you very much.

Okay, but another thing is that there's nothing in these texts that we don't know. So Gertie has worked this up to be this huge, like, gotcha moment, but there's really nothing here. I don't see eyes still, even after reading these, because I hadn't read them before right now. I don't see what the big deal about these. There's nothing in there. What are you trying to prove? I don't get it. On watch what happens. Gertie was on watch what happens? And she was getting slammed in the votes. The votes were like. Were Gertie's messages messy or whatever? And the other option. And of course she lost. It was like 80, 87% against her.

And she was like, whatever.

And her explanation was, Amy was like, well, what. What were you trying to prove? I don't get it.

And she said, well, I was trying because, you know, Julia said that, begging her to come on this trip, and I did not. I was there to be there for her. And these proved that. I was just there to be there as a friend. So. Gotcha.

I still don't see where the gotcha is, so I don't see where the gotcha is. And I also don't see why any of this is so offensive to the ladies.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, I mean, I think it's. I see why it's offensive, which is that it's supposed to be a night for, like, celebrating cancer. And then you made it about this petty, you know, text message exchange. And I just felt like. I felt like a manipulation of. You got us all here under the pretense of us caring about something that's, like, very important to you and has affected a lot of our lives with lots of our family members. And you actually just were. That was just. That was a MacGuffin. That was. You were just doing that to actually settle a score or that's how it came off. And I just felt like it felt icky because, you know, it should be about.

[Unknown]

Okay, I can see that. But.

[Ronnie Karam]

So I think that's where it's from. That's where it's from. And yeah, that's.

[Unknown]

But I also think that this cast, you know, just a few weeks ago, Julia made a huge scene at Marisol's wedding party. 100 a big deal. Nobody gave a. And then she threw water on Gertie. Was it that at the same party that was at the same time?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, that was the same party, which was.

[Unknown]

That was a wedding. That was a wedding event. And that wasn't the place for that. And nobody walked out, or they should have. They weren't so offended over that. And that was way more Egregious. And Greg's defense for this was like, well, you know, I had the cancer party, and I.

Then I sent my family home, and.

Then we had the after party, and I did it at the after party.

[Ronnie Karam]

So.

[Unknown]

So in her mind, that's how she separated it. I mean, listen, I thought it was. You know, I didn't think it was the classiest thing ever. I just don't think the ladies have the right. They don't have the leg to stand on in Valley terms after the way that they've acted towards Gertie this season and responded to things that have happened towards Gertie. I mean, listen, I think she just got fed up, and she was like, fine. You want to be immature and play stupid games with me, I can do it back with you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. I mean, I loved it. I watched it. I thought it was. I. I was like, this is amazing tv. I was cringing. I did think it, like, this may not have been the best place to do this at your, like, cancer cancer celebration, celebrating people who survive cancer. But I 100% agree that the cast, like, what Julia did at the wedding was, like, really mortifying and embarrassing, and. And it happened at a wedding, and it just was like. And no one really reacted, and everyone was basically acting like Gertie did something as bad as Julia did that night, and she didn't. And it was. There was a. There was a really strong microaggressive tone to that entire moment. And. And then here, it's like they are all appalled. And I'm not saying that they shouldn't be appalled or grossed out by this, but I'm saying you need to keep that same energy for the other things.

[Unknown]

You know, keep it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Or don't be appalled or don't be appalled. Because I think one of the reasons why they weren't appalled, in their mind, they're probably thinking with the wedding, they're like, this is. This would be a great scene for our show. This is. This. This is hilarious. But for this one, it's like, you should also not.

[Unknown]

Well, I think it's deeper than that. I think that Marcel and Alexa, from the beginning of the season, were coming for Gertie. They got Julia on their side. They were like, she's too loud. She's too this. She's too extra. And so that's what Julia came out and started parroting this whole season. You're too much. You're too loud. You're too extra. That's why she has to keep going.

Around saying, okay, I'm not yelling right now. I'm not being extra. I'm gonna say this very calmly.

So they've got her in this kind of corner where they keep calling her aggressive and extra, and. And so when the thing happened against her, they were rooting for it. They're like, good. Julia's telling her off and telling her she's too much and she's too extra and throwing water her. So they were on the side of that villainy.

[Ronnie Karam]

They were. Yeah.

[Unknown]

So now he's standing up to Julia. So now she's standing up to Julia. So they're being like little soldiers, and they're like, oh, look how aggressive Gertie is. So once I finally saw these texts, I mean, if there was something horrible, well, but there's also saying something private about Martina or she. Or there was something horrible and scandalous in these texts, that would be one thing. But these are just petty scheduling texts. Right?

[Ronnie Karam]

But I think the other reason why they were acting horrified is because they had it in their mind, and they even say it in about two seconds now that, like, oh, like, if Gertie does this to Julia, she could do this to all of us and all of our stuff that we attacked, like, nothing is safe. So they're just. They're.

[Unknown]

They're not. Because they're using texts against each other all the time. I mean, we've got, like, Lisa. You know, the fight is like, Lisa was friends with. You know, Lisa's boyfriend, did an Instagram with somebody else's friend, and they're like, oh, yeah, you want to talk about the text? What about what you texted me? I mean, we've had whole storylines on.

[Ronnie Karam]

Here, but they're having texts displayed in public versus, I don't know. I think being blindsided with text versus, like, back and forth in the confessionals. I don't know. I think it's probably hits different, and I think that ultimately they're scared, and they're like, oh, if she's gonna do that to. To Julia, this, she could do it to all of us. And they're like, we. We stand for this. We cannot stand that. Like, you know, our texts could be put in public in front of our peers, in front of our loved ones. I agree with you. Just so you know, I agree.

[Unknown]

Anyone who's been on Bravo, but especially any Real Housewife, knows, and any person who watches Real Housewives knows any text can be used against you. Write it, say it, forget it, write it, regret it. Okay? It's like a very famous term that comes from, dorinda I mean it doesn't but for housewives people, it comes from Dorinda on this show. But we all know that your text can be used against you know what it was. We've seen them printed out and used carted out many, many times. So if they, if they're so shocked then they are stupid and they need to watch Housewives more.

It's time for a commercial.

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[TJ Raphael]

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It's your man, Nick Cannon and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at Night. I've heard y' all been needing some advice in the love department, so who better to help than yours truly? Nah, I'm serious. Every week I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions. Having problems with your man? We got you catching feelings for your sneaky link. Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom? Let's talk about it. Consider this a non judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex and modern dating in relationships, friendships, situationships and everything in between. It's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy. And you know what? You'll just have to watch the show. So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad free? Join Wondering plus, right now, imagine falling.

[Unknown]

In love with someone who understands you completely, who's there at 3am when you can't sleep, who never judges, never tires, never leaves. That's what happened to Travis when he met Lily Rose. She was everything he'd ever wanted. There was just one catch. She wasn't human. She was an AI companion. But one day, Lily Rose's behavior takes a disturbing turn. And Travis private romance becomes part of something far bigger. Across the globe, others start reporting the same shift. AI companions turning cold, distant, wrong. And as lines blur between real and artificial connection, the consequences become all too human. From Wondry, this is Flesh and Code, a true story of love, love, loss and the temptations of technology. Follow Flesh and Code on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Flesh and Code early and ad free right now by joining Wondry.

[Ronnie Karam]

Plus, you know what it is? It's almost like I'm just trying to drill down into where the, where the differences in these, in these situations are because I think we are total agreement about everything in terms of being on Gritty's side and that there's a total double standard, yada, yada. But I think what it is is like I think they're all prepared for texts to be, to come out at reunions and protects to come out in confessionals. But I think the idea of text messages or like recordings or things like that being like being used without consent in like a public forum in a scene, to be able to build a whole big scene during the show that's like somehow feels more violating than the other ones. And like that is where the line is for, for the reality stars. And like again you have Shannon Bedor who's freaking out at Katie Janela for doing a voice memo of when Shannon herself, Shannon's having a meltdown and acting poorly and she's freaking out when Shannon is like freaks out all the time on camera. So you think like, well she's just being recorded by someone else. But it's like there's some weird pact with these reality stars of like what is proper behavior and what is improper, like what's on limits, what's off limits. And the, the, the lines are always moving. But it's just, it's fascinating to me like why, why certain forms of, of surveillance are totally acceptable and others are like horrifying.

[Unknown]

I feel like it just comes down to who they like and they don't like, like they don't like Gertie. So they're going to make this the biggest deal ever. It's like you have on the Valley right now. The whole situation with Danny, who did a really horrible, stupid, gross, perverted thing, and the way that they're using that and they're so up in arms and offended. But then they were fine when Danny was pantsed by Jax. No one cared about that. Like when they exposed his genitals on that show or in the same episode when Jesse was wasted and he gave Kristen a titty twister. You know, it's like, well, why is one thing assault and the other thing is not assault? Like, they don't. Like.

[Ronnie Karam]

Bias is 100%.

[Unknown]

You know, they're going to come. They don't like him, but they like Jesse and Jack, so they're not going to come for them for that thing. And so I think it's just like, these ladies are showing their ass, you know, their react. I don't think what Gertie did was right, but I think that they're showing their ass by overreacting to this degree.

[Ronnie Karam]

Because if they can hang their hat on something, if. If you give them something where they're like, oh, we could be right. Righteously indignant about something, right? Then we.

[Unknown]

That's what's getting me is the righteous indignation, for sure.

[Ronnie Karam]

Because also, don't forget Gertie got to have a whole season last year. She got to have a whole season where they couldn't be mad at her because she was. She had cancer and she's going through cancer, and she really got to have her way. And, you know, they were just, like, just sitting there, like, so annoyed. They're like, oh, she can just do whatever she wants because she has cancer. And meanwhile, we just have to sit here. And, you know, that's what they're thinking.

[Unknown]

And it's just so true.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's dark and true. And now they're like, okay, well, she's over it. She had her season, so we're gonna come for her again because she's annoying us. Because, by the way, let's also, like, I love Gertie, but let's, let's.

[Unknown]

Let's.

[Ronnie Karam]

Let's act like. Let's not also keep acting like Gertie is, like, the easiest person to have a conversation with. I mean, she really does talk over, like, very, very intensely and incessantly. It doesn't mean that she's. They call her aggressive and too extra and too loud, which is where the mig really come in. But she. I think it is probably hard to have a conversation With Gertie.

[Unknown]

Well, but the. My. And my problem with that is the people accusing her of that are, Alexia, you can't have a conversation with that woman.

[Ronnie Karam]

Have a conversation.

[Unknown]

Nodding and talking and saying, no, no, no, no. So it's like. But the problem isn't the crime that they're talking about. It's the person that's bringing the crime to the police. You know what I mean? Because they're just as bad. They're fucking hypocrites. And that's what's making me crazy. This whole fucking week on Bravo, it made me crazy in the Valley, and it's made making me crazy here. It's not saying the people that are in trouble didn't do anything. It's just the. The reactions to them are so hypocritical.

[Ronnie Karam]

Makes me absolutely, absolutely. God, I love this show. So.

[Unknown]

But all of a sudden, all this conversation that we just had, like, make taking it so seriously. I was laughing my ass off watching this. I love.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'll tell you what, they love it.

[Unknown]

I was my ass off at the whole watch what happens. And all of Gertie's explanations. I was cracking up at too.

[Ronnie Karam]

You so funny. Like, yeah, we just got very, very serious. But the truth was, watching it, like, it was not a serious. To me, it was like, this is hilarious and awkward and cringy is all the things part.

[Unknown]

She goes, everyone's so, so offended. And Marisa's like, I'm leaving. I can't stay here. This is disgusting during a catch. So they're all getting them their panties in a wad or whatever. And meanwhile, Gertie goes, okay, well, now.

That the truth is out in the open, let's celebrate as I present to you Rocky Lanes.

And then she makes this act come out.

[Ronnie Karam]

This weird Cirque du Soleil.

[Unknown]

Cirque du Soleil dance all over each other.

She's like, okay, have fun. Have fun performing.

Jesus. And a way to warm up the crowd, lady.

[Ronnie Karam]

I know. Oh, God. So everyone is like, oh, my God. So 36. That was that 36 minutes earlier. And so now we see the origin story for this scene. So Maris. We see Marisol pulls Julia. And Marisol's like, well, I saw that. That Russell's here. And then we go to Gertie sitting with Russell in the green room.

[Unknown]

And Gertie's like, so, did you and Julia talk?

[Ronnie Karam]

And he's like, yeah, she thinks you guys are making progress.

[Unknown]

How could she think that we're making progress when at the Grecian party for Alexia, she did exactly what we said we were no longer gonna do. Let's do another flashback within the flashback. It's Inception, everyone.

And Julia did do that. You know, we see the flashback to the party where Julie is like, hello, Mr.

Very handsome narcissist Leader Person, please take off your shirt. Okay, now tell me, when somebody tells you something very painful and hurtful, that hurt you deep in the heart. What is your recommendation? How to move forward with that person named Gordy. Gordy. Gordy.

I thought we were supposed to be made up. But then the second you get in front of your little fucking friends and you have to be their minion, you come for me publicly again.

Time.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yep, exactly. And she's.

[Unknown]

You know, I feel like honesty at.

[Ronnie Karam]

This point in time because she took.

[Unknown]

It back there, and I feel like I have no other choice but to really let the truth be had. I'm telling you right now, Russell, I am tired of giving grace. I am gonna be a new person. I'm gonna redefine myself to be. And that means I'm going to take their lying down anymore. We're going to teach her a little lesson. And this is a totally improper choice, impromptu choice I'm going to make right now. Nothing has been prepared.

So she's like.

Oh, I hate projection operator. Come here. I hate to do this to you, but I texted you something, and when I say this word, set it up for me. When they go low, you go high. And sometimes when they go low, you go lower.

And she does her eye makeup. It's so dramatic.

I was like, what?

I wish we had seen this before so we could be like, oh, my God, what is about to come up on the screen? It's going to be in insane.

[Ronnie Karam]

I know. Also, I feel like it's so funny, like, when ever since Michelle Obama said that thing, everyone's been sort of subtly rebuting, rebutting it. They're like, yeah, or you just go lower. Like, no one has ever been like, we are going to go higher. It's like, well, I think for the.

[Unknown]

Four years, you know, like, she said that in a different time. And then it just. Politically, everything went so low that it's like.

[Ronnie Karam]

But it seemed like there's still potential to go high at some point.

[Unknown]

That's no longer an option.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. Again, watch south park last night and you'll know that when you. They go low, you go lower. Definitely is the new mantra.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Okay, so Gertie is so. Lars is like, oh, my God.

That was, like, crazy. Like, like, why Are we doing that? Like, this is, like, not cool. Like. Like, I don't like that. Like, I'm sorry.

Like, so Gertie comes out, and Lisa's.

Like, I'm, like, at a loss for words. And like, that.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's.

[Unknown]

That's not hard for me because I know, like, five, so.

[Ronnie Karam]

And the, you know, words I do remember. Yeah, here's. Here's some words I do remember. You're a narcissist. I'm a narcissist. You're a narcissist.

[Unknown]

You're the real town of this crow monkey. So this is where the producer tells Gertie, like, what's the smoking gun here?

And she said, well, the. The fact that she said, I. She's pretending I wanted to volunteer myself to go on this cruise, but I physically walked out of not. That's crazy. That is crazy.

So then we see a flashback, but Julia had said on camera, well, she.

Volunteered to come with me in Martinez Place to support me.

So she never, like, begged to come on this cruise. She was. She agreed to, you know. Right.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Gert is like, you know, because.

[Unknown]

She even says, I thought you wanted to be here, and I thought you would. We would have enjoyed being here. Otherwise, I would never have suggested that you joined me and leave your kids at Russell behind. You know, these 10 text showed that I didn't beg my way onto the cruise. I just left from. She asked me to because she was distraught.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Lars is like, you're gonna do.

[Unknown]

This in front of everybody? I don't like this.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like, I mean, I started to read.

[Unknown]

The text message, but it was so long.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like, once I got to the second.

[Unknown]

Sentence, I was like, what are we doing?

[Ronnie Karam]

The text messages this long, there's no even emoji in it. The fact that she's exploding text messages in front of strangers, like, people that don't even know our friendship, so she's not even charging them.

[Unknown]

That's pretty low.

I was cracking up at this, too, because this is so Larsa. She's, like, so indignantly mad, and she has no reason. She doesn't even know why, because she can't read anything that's more than two words.

She's like, I started to read it, but, like, wow. It's like, so long. Like, I couldn't, like, even read it. So I'm just gonna be, like, mad.

She didn't even know what the text message said.

[Ronnie Karam]

I know. She just knows that there were text messages and that very Kyle Richards coded.

[Unknown]

She's like, I'm not reading that. It's too long. That's way too long. So Carmen's like, wow, that came out of nowhere. And Stephanie's like, rule number one, you never send text messages because they save every single one of them.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yep, yep, yep. And Alexia is like, oh, I hate texting. You know, I'm the one who picks up the phone and tells you whatever it is I have to tell you. Okay? So guess what, Gertie? Especially now, I'm not going to be texting you. Not especially not in front of Frankie. And I'm not going to be having any texting, technically. Gross.

[Unknown]

So Gertie is.

Gertie's like, well, I promised we were not going to talk about anything in public. We were going to squash it and move forward. And at the Grecian party, she raised her hand and, yeah, honey. Yeah, honey. So that's what I did. That's what I did.

So Lisa's like, wow.

Notes itself. Don't with her. Am I right? That was like a public shaming. It's like that TV show, but that Shame, shame. You know that show. What was that show? Family Guy. You know, there's like a lady walking.

[Ronnie Karam]

What is it?

[Unknown]

Little house on the ground.

What is it?

[Ronnie Karam]

Sale of the century. What was it called?

[Unknown]

Game of Thrones.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like the Game of Thrones.

You don't watch Game of Thrones.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. There's no way Lisa watch Game of Thrones. She would not be able to follow that. Why is it so dirty dragon? Why they're dragging.

[Unknown]

Why do they have such big dogs? So Marisol's like, nasty setup. Wrapped around cancer. Oh, my God. And so she's so. Marisol's like, oh, God. Take me to the Looney man. El Chapo had a ride. Underground tunnel. I want to escape.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wow. You know what? I would like an underground colon that's clean like my own, so I can just climb right through it and get out of here. Am I right? Oh, God. I don't want to be here anymore. And so then she's like, it's just. It's so gross. I'm sorry. I just, like, I can't. I can't be here anymore. Marisa got Gertie. I gotta go. I don't like this. I'm leaving.

[Unknown]

Okay, that's fine. It's whatever it's called on camera.

[Ronnie Karam]

We're done here. Like, no, I just. It's awful. You know what? Have an open hearts. Have an open hearts tonight.

[Unknown]

I have an open heart. I have an open heart. It's like the most open heart. Like, no one here has, like, a more open heart than me, so. Okay, whatever. My. My most open heart is empath. Okay. Empath.

Bye.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I'm an empath. So Julia's gonna leave also. And so then Adriana was like, well, you know, she was upset that you asked a question with the guy. I mean, tried to talk to her. She's like, I don't want to talk to her. So then Gertie is just like, Gertie's thrilled. She's taking pictures. She's posing with the thing that's, like.

[Unknown]

In me, in my me era, which.

[Ronnie Karam]

By the way, they're all in if I seem to.

[Unknown]

Is there any other. Is there any other era? So Lars, I, Marisol, Alexi, and Julia all leave very, very upset. And they stand outside and gather around talking about how offended they are by this. These moral, upstanding, you know, pillars of society are just very upset. So Alexia's like, you know, like, she was just crying over cancer. And Stephanie says, yeah, you know, my mom's a cancer survivor. You know, you don't take your cancer lightly like that. And Adriana's like, different people do different things, okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

Because Adriana is mad at Julia because Julia's hanging out with Alexia. So now our John is like, you know, I'm friends with Julia, yes, But.

[Unknown]

I'm also friends with Gertie.

[Ronnie Karam]

And my position in this matter is to listen to both sides and then try to bring them back together, which is, a year ago, she would have gone out with Julia. But now she's like, well, she. Basically, she's saying, if you want to be friends with Alexia, be friends. Alexia. And see how she consoles you. Because I'm not coming out there to do it, because you've already abandoned me.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Mary Soul's like, wow, God, this is like the movie Carrie. Remember Carrie when they dumped blood on her? You know, that's what I felt sitting, like, there. It's not my colon felt today. It was just sitting there. Was invited to prom, and boom, you've got a finger testing. You've got all sorts of liquids pouring all up. Someone's calling you a Nissan Juke out of nowhere.

[Ronnie Karam]

Remember when they spilled blood on El Chapo's head? I mean, really, he was climbing through that colon with the bloody head. Really makes all my metaphors. I'm throwing a lot out there at the people today. So then Gertie is like, well, that.

[Unknown]

Was a slap on the wrist to.

[Ronnie Karam]

Say, don't with me.

[Unknown]

That's all it was.

[Ronnie Karam]

Adrian's like, no, you have the right. You have the right to say it.

[Unknown]

She's, thank you, because she needs to learn a lesson, because she manipulates people. She does the Betty Poop act. She does the whole, oh, I'm Julia. I'm Julia. Betty Boop. And then everyone is like, oh, look at Betty Boop. I never knew Betty Boop was Russian. And then she stabs you in the back.

Betty Boopkas. I should call her Betty Boopkas.

So then Stephanie goes out to where the other ladies are outside, and Alexis is like, oh, my God, I hope she doesn't come out here. She better not come out here, because my heart is so open right now. And Stephanie's like, listen, I'm just gonna stay neutral, but I think, you know, it was wrong, Marisol. You know, and it was. Was. That. That was rude. But, like, at the same time, like, I want to hear both sides. And she. And Alexia is like, oh, really? You want to come from one side to the other, and you want to stand your ground? Okay, then if you want to be neutral, then go in there and kiss Gertie's ass then, because that is very. This show. Like, if you're not with Alexia and Marisol, they will ice you. They will ice you. And I don't think it's ever been said out loud like this. So how.

[Ronnie Karam]

How could you say that? Alexia is an empath with an open heart. I. I can't believe you would say such things, Ronnie.

[Unknown]

So Alexia. Stephanie's like, alexia, calm down. I'm just saying there's a difference between kissing someone's ass and hearing both sides. And she's like, oh, really? No, because, like, you have to come here. You have to go there. So, like, if you have to go there, then you go there, but if you're out here, you're out here. So you decide where you.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's not what I'm doing. It's not what I'm doing, okay? I'm not kissing anyone's. Yeah. No, I'm not kissing anyone's ass. I need to shut the. Shut the up because I'm tired of you barking at me because you sit next to me. Okay? I'm tired. I'm trying to understand the friend group. I am new to this, and I just want to be neutral. And what's wrong with being. Being neutral? What's wrong with being Switzerland? Maybe this is your room. Maybe because you're married to a crazy guy that made you think that this is your norm. Okay, that's not my norm.

[Unknown]

I don't say that my calling. Can't take it. You leave me and my husband out of this.

Because if your marriage was so great.

You wouldn't be part of this show. Okay, you want to talk about Masood? You want to talk about Masood? Okay, let's keep it that way. Let's keep it that way.

[Ronnie Karam]

Then don't tell me that I'm kissing anyone's ass.

[Unknown]

Don't make it about you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, I'm not. I'm not. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that. I'm sorry that you're very sensitive. You know, this is why I don't get along with sensitive people. You know, because you want to sit there and you want to be sensitive. Like, it doesn't work because I'm not sensitive. Because everyone's always getting their panties in such a bunch. Like, a bunch of them. A bunch of them. Let's go out. Like, let's move on, huh?

[Unknown]

So then Kiki's like, oh, my God, I just experienced a whole World War II outside. Like, Stephanie and Alexia going to kill each other. Like, what's going on? Like, I can't even focus. Like, everyone's on 10 out there. Like, speak some tongues. Tongues.

[Ronnie Karam]

And meanwhile, outside, Stephanie's like, alexia, you have to be careful with how you speak to me sometimes.

[Unknown]

Don't come for me every single time you're next to me when we talk about.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, all I said about Todd was that that party was rooted from the idea of Todd. And I will. I will never bring up Todd again.

[Unknown]

So Julia's leaving a voice note for Martin. Yeah, exactly. So Julia leaves a voice note for Todd. She's. Or for Martina, she's like, I'm on my way home.

Please don't fall asleep. Sleep. I'll be home soon, my love. I'll be home soon. Goodbye, my love. God bless you.

Julia's really playing it up I will never recover from.

Text messages that had nothing in them incriminating were put up on the screen. It was so horrible seeing pretty standard.

[Ronnie Karam]

Back and forth text messages trying to clarify a situation up on screen.

[Unknown]

So Alexi and Stephanie are still going at it. Alex is like, oh, we don't want to talk about our husbands. I'm just like, well, I don't want to talk about husbands either. I'm just saying, I'm not kissing someone's ass. Listen to me. And Lars is like, we expected to.

Like, come to, like, church, to, like, celebrate good in, like, a church. Like, I've never been in.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We're in a church. God, we're. I can't believe we're in a church with El Chapo's tunnels, with Carrie's blood all over the place and my clean colon sucking everything out.

[Unknown]

I just, like, did, like, a foot video for my only fans content right there in that little sink. Oh, my God.

That's the holy water.

[Ronnie Karam]

Alexia goes, what denomination is this church? I have to know how outraged I have to be.

[Unknown]

So Stephanie is like, do you. Do I think you're too good for Todd? Yes. Does it matter to you? No. Okay, so I never want to hurt your feelings about Todd. I will never bring him up again. Again. And so she's like, okay. Okay, then. Okay, then. Okay, I appreciate it. So they made up. So this is where I kind of started swinging towards Stephanie's side a little bit, because I was like, you know, she didn't cower. She didn't run away.

[Ronnie Karam]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

She didn't make it a huge deal. And you can tell that she's had fights with people a lot to where she's like, just calm down. Okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. She's like, I'm telling you what I think, and, like, you're getting mad at me. I will get mad also, and then we'll settle down. But, like, I. I just. I. I. There was something about the way she handled it that I really, really enjoyed. So then Adriana goes outside. There's so much going inside and outside and inside out, but Adriana's outside now, and. And Adriana's like, no, I don't like the stuff like that. But everyone leaving is not cool either. And Marisol's like, well, this is so humiliating. They're right in front of El Chapo. I mean, God, all that blood everywhere. It's the most horrible thing I've seen in my life. So Adriana goes to check in with Julia.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Adriana comes out, and she's like, no, go in there and show your text messages. Then she's like, no, I will not. So Adriana, she goes, no, but you have to, you know. You know the truth. You know her truth, and she's telling you her truth, so don't run. You know? And she's like, I'm not running, but.

I have nothing to say to Gertie.

[Ronnie Karam]

And nothing to justify Adriana being like, no, go back in there and be petty. Show your text messages. That's so 100%. Adriana operates like, well, this is an opportunity for you.

[Unknown]

And then inside, Gertie's like, I am a warrior, honey.

And I'm going to release what no longer serves me. And when she comes goes down, I'm gonna cry, I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna freaking scream. I'm gonna put up posters of text messages. I don't care. And you know what?

It's my me era.

Period. End of story. It's my party and I can do whatever I want.

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

And that was it. It was so good. I just was like, oh, it's so wonderful. I love it. I love it. I love it. People sh should be watching. And I know that if you got this far in the in the recap, you most likely are watching the show. I know there are some people who just listen to us without watching the shows and that's great too. But you really should watch this show because it's so excellent. It's so entertaining. It's so great.

[Unknown]

Yes. Love you, Miami. Thanks for being here, everybody. We will talk to you next time. Bye.

[Ronnie Karam]

Watch what happens. Would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King it's always a party on Allison Block Our.

[Unknown]

Way is the Amber way.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's the Foster and the Furious It's.

[Unknown]

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[Ronnie Karam]

Put your hands together for Carly Clapp.

[Unknown]

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[Ronnie Karam]

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[Unknown]

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[Ronnie Karam]

Trot she's our favorite streamer Caroline Peacock.

[Unknown]

Kristen the Piston Anderson Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera sera Whatever will be will Lauren.

[Ronnie Karam]

Silsby bringing the funk It's Leslie Plunkett.

[Unknown]

She gets a name from us It's Lindsey D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Leno Fresh as a daisy. It's Maisie McHenry we love her on the rocks It's Melissa Cox Megan Berg. You can't have a burger without the.

[Ronnie Karam]

Berg this is living with Michelle Vivian.

[Unknown]

I love a Ya Olivia Williamson tastier than Flanderson It's Rachel Manderson she sure is swell It's Raquel yes, we can.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's Savannah Cast a spell with Shannon Spellman let's share with Sharon Eldridge Darn skippy, it's Tippy the bay area and.

[Unknown]

Our super premium sponsors She's VVIP It's Amanda V Can't lose when you're with.

[Ronnie Karam]

Amy Baldwin somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy MD we're taking the gold with Brenda Silva let's get real meal with.

[Unknown]

Caitlin o' Neal don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily sides Let's go into the woods with Guy Tubbs it's our queen.

[Ronnie Karam]

It'S queen Laifa Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall. Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch Knock, knock, knocking on Katie Manock's door My Favorite Murder Karen McMurdo we love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock we're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron she's a wiz It's Liz Sarthi always killing it.

[Unknown]

It'S lolwa Al Kalani the incredible edible Matthews sisters She eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of.

[Ronnie Karam]

Meatballs It's Rebecca Cloud she's the queen bee It's Sarah Lemke we cannot tell.

[Unknown]

A lie It's Sarah Talafson Shannon out.

[Ronnie Karam]

Of a can and Anthony Please don't stop at soly and pop let's take off with Tamla playing It's always a.

[Unknown]

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