#2955 RHOC S19E04: Jo Way Out

Summary

Podcast Title: Watch What Crappens
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Episode: #2955 – RHOC S19E04: Jo Way Out
Release Date: August 1, 2025
Platform: Wondery

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Introduction

In episode #2955 of Watch What Crappens, hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam dive deep into Season 19, Episode 4 of The Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC), titled "Jo Way Out." This episode unpacks the escalating tensions and dramatic exits that mark this season, particularly focusing on Tamara Judge's tumultuous departure from the show.

Episode Overview

Tamara's Departure: The central narrative of this episode revolves around Tamara Judge's decision to quit RHOC. Hosts Ben and Ronnie discuss the buildup to her exit, highlighting the intense pressure and manipulations she faced from fellow cast members.

Ronnie [05:12]: "Tamra was like, quit the show when they were in New Orleans, right? Something like she left. She couldn't take it anymore."

Conflict with Jen and Gretchen: Tamara's strained relationships with Jen Monique and Gretchen Rossi are scrutinized. The hosts suggest that both Jen and Gretchen have started seeing through Tamara's attempts to manipulate the cast, leading to her losing support and influence.

Ben [05:32]: "Jen's doing a great job. She just came back with a lot of piss and vinegar. She ain't taking nothing from no one."

Heather Dubrow's Birthday Party Meltdown: A significant portion of the episode showcases Heather Dubrow's chaotic birthday party at a televangelist compound. During the event, tensions flare as Shannon and other cast members confront Heather and Katie Ashleigh about ongoing disputes.

Heather [07:06]: "Welcome to my birthday party, presented by the memory of Richard Marks, who, sadly, is still trapped in a closet in my basement."

Key Moments and Discussions

Tamara's Struggles: The hosts delve into Tamara's personal struggles, including her stress related to her relationship with Teddy Long and the constant scrutiny from Bravo. They emphasize that Tamara's attempts to seek support have backfired, leaving her isolated.

Ronnie [06:05]: "Tamara's manipulations are falling flat and she's losing her power and she just can't deal."

Jen Monique's Transformation: Jen Monique, previously viewed as a pushover, undergoes a transformation. In this episode, she stands up firmly against Tamara, marking a significant shift in her character's dynamic on the show.

Ben [12:57]: "Jen's like, let's not. Let's go this way, okay? Because this may work better for you."

Gretchen Rossi's Support: Gretchen Rossi aligns with Jen Monique, further isolating Tamara. Their united front complicates Tamara's position, leaving her with dwindling allies.

Gina [07:15]: "You are more evil than Alexis Bellino."

Tamara's Confrontation with Jen: In a pivotal scene, Tamara confronts Jen about alleged manipulations and blogging activities that have been causing friction within the group. The confrontation ends with Jen effectively dismantling Tamara's claims, pushing her closer to departure.

Jen [64:07]: "You don't want to bring me sick."

Notable Quotes

• Ben Mandelker [05:32]: "She ain't taking nothing from no one."
• Ronnie Karam [06:05]: "Tamara's manipulations are falling flat and she's losing her power."
• Heather Dubrow [07:06]: "Welcome to my birthday party... we couldn't find the key, so she's giving..."
• Gina K. [07:15]: "You are more evil than Alexis Bellino."
• Jen Monique [64:07]: "You don't want to bring me sick."

Character Dynamics

The episode highlights shifting alliances and power plays within the RHOC cast. Tamara Judge finds herself increasingly isolated as Jen Monique and Gretchen Rossi form a strong alliance against her. Heather Dubrow's erratic behavior at her birthday party further complicates group dynamics, exposing underlying tensions and prompting candid confrontations.

Insights and Conclusions

Ben and Ronnie provide keen insights into the personal and interpersonal conflicts that drive the drama in this episode. They point out that Tamara's inability to navigate the complex social landscape of the show has led to her downfall. The hosts also commend Jen Monique's newfound assertiveness, which has significantly altered the group's dynamics.

Ben [61:43]: "She's therapy cameras... dirty work."

The conclusion drawn by the hosts is that Tamara Judge's exit, while dramatic, is a result of cumulative tensions and her failed attempts to maintain influence within the group. The evolving personalities and alliances among the cast members set the stage for an intriguing upcoming season.

Closing Thoughts

Episode #2955 of Watch What Crappens offers a comprehensive breakdown of RHOC Season 19, Episode 4, capturing the essence of the show's drama and the intricate relationships among its cast. Through detailed analysis and engaging commentary, Ben and Ronnie provide listeners with a vivid recount of the episode's pivotal moments, ensuring that even those unfamiliar with the podcast can grasp the unfolding drama.

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Transcript

[Ronnie]

So I went to the dentist last week. Ronnie. While I was there, I noticed that everyone in the office was wearing super clean and crisp scrubs. Like, I mean, really clean. Like, sort of like when a crew meets a new guest on Below Deck down under, you know, and like Captain Jason's there looking all prim and proper, etc. It's like that. Imagine if Captain Jason got into medicine. That's what those scrubs look like.

[Ben]

Well, I already know what they were because all the trendy scrub wearers wear them. They're figs. They are the scrub wearer. If you work in healthcare, forget what you know about scrubs. And figs aren't boxy, itchy, or loose. Instead, they're comfortable, durable, and they have lots of smart design touches like pockets for scissors, your valuables, and more, so you can keep your hands free to, you know, do medicine.

[Ronnie]

Once I saw figs at the dentist, I started seeing them everywhere. Like, I live right by a medical center and almost every person near there walking on the street going to, like, get coffee, they're all wearing figs, every single one of them. It's crazy. And they also have like a ton of colors, like more pinks than Lisa Vanderpump would know what to do with, so. So head to wherefigs.com and enter figsrx at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. That's wherefigs.com and figsrx at checkout for 15%.

[Travis]

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[Nick Cannon]

In love with the perfect woman. Beautiful, understanding, available 24 7. There was just one catch. She wasn't human. Binge all episodes of Flesh and Code early and ad free right now on Wonder Plus.

[Ronnie]

Watch what happens. Watch what Cr. What happens when there's so much that happens. When there's so much that happens.

[Ben]

Well, hello and welcome to Watch what Happens. I'm Ronnie. That's Ben. Hello, Ben.

[Ronnie]

Hi, Ronnie. How are you?

[Ben]

Good. Everybody, welcome to the show. It is Real Housewives of Orange county day. Very excited to be here. Watch Tamara get her ass handed to. Jen's doing a great job.

[Ronnie]

Great job.

[Ben]

She just came back with a lot of piss and vinegar. She ain't taking nothing from no one.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Ben]

That's happening. And also, if you want this on video, come over to our Patreon. You want to see my big bruised purple eye? It won't heal. Come over and look at it. It's great. Don't worry. It's not gooey or Uzi or anything. It's just ugly. But we're over on Crappings on Demand on Patreon. If you want those for free a week later, you can get them for free on YouTube. Okay. We're gavers like that. Also, our bonus episode this week was our trip to Vegas. I went to see Beyonce. We both went to the Backstreet Boys and we both bitched about the hotels and the airlines.

[Ronnie]

So as is our right.

[Ben]

Yes, our old cogity bitching about the service. So go over there and check that out. That was super fun. And next week we will be doing crappy. No, next week's not crappy hour. Next week is our Amazon Live on Monday. Monday afternoon at 4pm Pacific Time. Our link will be in our bio on Instagram. So check that out. That has been really fun for us to do. So check that out. Monday at 4pm Also next week is our Dwell hello day. Those are our Wondery plus exclusives that we do recapping House Hunters. Next week we are recapping a new episode, which is rare for us. We usually do oldies, but there's one called like a cougar and a den for her little boy or something creepy and everybody's talking about it. So we will be recapping that next week on Wonder Plus. So lots of stuff. Thanks for being here. We love you guys. Let's get on to Real Housewives of Orange County Season 19, Episode 4, Judge, Jury and Jen.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, you know, ahead of this season, there was a lot of chatter, a lot of discussion about, well, mainly from the source itself. Tamra was like, quit the show when they were in New Orleans, Right? Something like she left. She left. She couldn't take it anymore.

[Gina]

She quit.

[Ronnie]

And you know me, again.

[Gina]

That'S my opinion.

[Ronnie]

And it's like, I think at the time, I mean, she said a lot of things which I didn't listen to. But, like, I think we all assumed, okay, she was stressed about Teddy etc, which is obviously probably still a major factor. But it's also clear that her is just not anymore. Jen just does not fall for it. Jen has Tamara's number on this episode and Gretchen has Tamara's number. There's two people that are just seeing through her and Tamara's manipulations are falling flat and she's losing her power and she just can't deal. So of course she left the New Orleans trip because Bravo has lined up basically two nuclear weapons against her. Two nuclear kryptonite, poison, toxic, whatever it is.

[Ben]

Two and a half. Because you've got Katie's husband as well, who is not standing for one ounce of. From Tamara or Ryan, which is actually pretty good. Now, normally I don't love when the husbands get in the mix, but I think he did it in a very calm and collected way and just handed her ass to her very calmly and walked off. And I think that's allowed.

[Ronnie]

Yes. And also, by the way, shout out to our friend Kiki, who managed to be drawn into the mess of this show. Like, that is the dream. So great. Great work, Kiki.

[Ben]

Yeah, I was proud of her. It's like, you go, Kiki. So we are still at Heather's terrible birthday party thrown in a televangelist compound.

[Ronnie]

With an all brown theme. And the chiron, as soon as we enter, says Heather Dubrow's birthday party. And underneath it said secondary observance.

[Ben]

So, yes, we're here with Evil Eyed Heather and Shannon has just lost her mind at Katie. You are the worst person.

[Gina]

You are worse than Alexis Bellino.

[Ben]

Katie. Janela, you illegally filmed me. Illegal. Illegal.

[Heather]

It's illegal. I am. We are done. We are done. I am walking right out of here. Oh, are those canopies? Well, I mean, I may just stop just to see what they've served. I mean, if Heather paid for all this, it would be terrible if no one even sampled the goods. Okay, I'll be right over here.

[Ben]

Can I take two? What do you mean I can't take two? You are the. You are more evil than Alexis Molino. And there is articles we talked about in Crappy Hour that were coming out this week saying after this episode, Shannon had to be sat down by production for abusing the production staff everywhere here. Shannon just came back because timeline wise, this was right after Love Hotel. And so Love Hotel is when Joel Kim booster did his whole tirade online against Shannon. And so she came back, and I guess she's just keeping it going by just being abusive to everybody left and right. So she's know when Shannon has that evil ponytail that she's coming for somebody. I would just hide in the bathroom if I saw her come in with that ponytail. Hide.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, that's. She means business. So Katie's like, well, I'm getting the blame for everything, so I'm gonna leave. So she gets Matt. Well, Matt's eating, and she is just a waste of a good dress. So there, meanwhile, are cheersing with hot.

[Ben]

Dogs, and Heather does this whole, like, oh, cheers. I love a good hot dog. And then she smiles and tears right into the camera. This wacky, fun Heather.

[Ronnie]

She starts eating her hot dog like a corn on the cob because she has no idea what the sort of food is. She's like, look at me, a lady of the people. It's like, heather, that's not how you eat a hot dog. Of course it is. I studied this at Syracuse acting school.

[Ben]

Yeah. So she goes up to Katie, and she's like, katie, let's discuss this another time when I'm not getting good hot dog will from the audience. All right?

[Ronnie]

This is what they call a ballpark wiener, and it's what people eat at.

[Heather]

Games of Balls of Bass.

[Ben]

So Gina's like, I genuinely like Katie.

[Gina]

But, like, it's hard for us to be on the outs because, like, I feel bad. Like, I want to hear her out and see if it's thing repairable.

[Ronnie]

She literally says it.

[Heather]

I will be.

[Ronnie]

When she's the one who gets the ball rolling on all of this. So Katie's like, you know, tells Matt what Shannon said, and Matt's like, well, it's stupid. It's not true. So just let her have her thing. So Katie feels bad because she knows that Shannon was trying to help her. And then she hurt Shannon and she feels really bad about that.

[Ben]

So they're walking out. They're walking out now. So then we see a car, and it's Tamara and a secret guest. Who could it be?

[Gina]

She's like, thanks so much for coming with me, Edison. Hard path. So I'm just so nervous. I don't want to be around Ryan. It's scary. Oh, and I know you must be nervous too, because it's been decades for you. Decades.

[Ben]

And we see it's Jo. And Jo has not only found a ride with Tamara, she's found. Found Jesus. Thank God Jesus is here. Gretchen and Joe have brought Jesus back to our televisions right in time for the Trump era.

[Ronnie]

I. At first, when it was Joe, for some reason, I mentally thought it was Lizzie, and I was like, oh, that's a surprise. I was like, wait, no, that's Joe. And they don't even really look alike. But, like, my mind was, like, inserted Lizzie in there at first. I love Tamra, who is so angry that Katie would allegedly would, like, have some sort of, like, interference with, like, Bravo, Babe. Or something, like, have a sympathetic phone call. Because Bravo, Babe says that Tamra is, like, planting bad stories. Whatever. Like that. That's like. That's Katie's biggest infraction is that she spoke to content creators, while meanwhile, Tamara is the content creator, and she's bringing, like, someone's, like, ex. Like, cancer was being actively messy, and then is acting like what Katie did is the worst thing that ever happened to this cast.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Gina]

And she's like, well, Heather said it was okay if I could bring Joe. She said, oh, Joe, yeah, bring. Bring Joe. And if Gretchen's upset about it, that's Gretchen's problem.

[Ben]

And then in the car, Tamara's like.

[Gina]

Can we just pray, Please? Let's pray.

[Ben]

And Joe's like, let's pray. That's me, Joe. Prayer. I don't know if anybody remembers me. I've become a big prayer since back then. So, dear God, I pray that our relationships can be mended, Lord. And that is my last line of the evening. Thank you, Jesus.

[Ronnie]

Dear Jesus, you found me at a low point in my life when I was just sitting on counters in 2005 in Coto de Caso, waiting for Slade to come home. And I would just bounce around the.

[Ben]

Kitchen, opening and closing cabinet doors. Remember when that's how they display. That's how they portrayed how bored Jo was. Jo was like, I don't know if I can just sit here all day. And then they have a long shot of her just opening a cabinet door and closing it.

[Ronnie]

That was in the pilot of this show because we rewatched it about a year ago, and it was just. It was, like, filmed on, like, a Fisher Price camera as Joe opening cabinets and closing them. Like, okay, do something to show that you're lonely. Should I open up the cabinet? Yes, yes, yes. Do more of that.

[Ben]

So they pray in choir. Music is playing. And then we go back inside, the ladies are talking, and Jen's like, so Slade, you haven't been around Tamra, right? Or conditioner any. Anytime recently. And Slade's like, I don't talk now, but I'm just gonna shake my head.

[Gina]

And Gretchen's like, have you met Slade? I have to keep him away from her. He will eat her alive.

[Ben]

And so mad.

[Gina]

I'm steaming mad.

[Ben]

So Tamara sees Katie leaving outside, and.

[Gina]

She'S like, oh, wait, you guys are leaving. Katie. Katie, come back. Katie.

[Ben]

Matt's like, do not talk to her.

[Ronnie]

She's like, I don't want to talk about it.

[Heather]

It's like, oh, I just want to make sure you're okay. Come on. Don't you want to go back into the party so I can humiliate you? I didn't get my chance yet.

[Ronnie]

That's like, oh, please. You started this. Now you want to pretend like you care.

[Heather]

Yeller at me.

[Gina]

Yeller.

[Ronnie]

So she's like, that's my fault.

[Heather]

So it's my fault that I'm hot and that you recorded Shannon.

[Ronnie]

Katie's like, you brought it up.

[Heather]

Had my lunch where I was trying to move forward with these ladies, and.

[Ben]

Then Tamara's just smiling in the confessional, that evil little Satan smile.

[Gina]

She's like, oops, I thought that Gina Ivan knew about that. I thought it was the conflict we had last year. Guess not. Whoops.

[Ronnie]

Katie's like, she has blood on her hands. If she was so concerned, why hold onto that information for a year? And Tamara's like, well, you got caught.

[Heather]

And said, again, it's your fault.

[Ben]

Yeah, but I owned it, Tamara. I already owned it.

[Gina]

She goes, I've done nothing but be nice to you and be supportive of you.

[Ben]

And she goes, you called me a Cup Fitness last year. I've never called you names.

[Gina]

Too soon. Too soon.

[Heather]

Do you know what it's like to close the doors on your warp floor Gym? Too soon. Don't say cut Fitness.

[Ben]

I've never called you names. And you called me the C word Chips.

[Gina]

Oh, yeah, you just got bloggers. He don't call names. You call bloggers.

[Ronnie]

Tamara, I don't know how many more times I have to make this point, but I will make it over and over again. You are the blogger. You have a podcast. You're so mad at people planting stories, you plant your own stories in your own podcast and put them out there for the world.

[Ben]

So inside, Shannon has yelled at somebody, and so now she's doing the second part of her job, which is wackily eating food.

[Ronnie]

Food.

[Ben]

It's like, what is this?

[Gina]

What is this? A buffet. I'm just allowed to eat anything here.

[Ben]

Is this a spring roll? Why don't they call these winter rolls? Trying to get in my mouth.

[Heather]

Look at me. I'm wearing a chafer. A chafer lid on top of my head. No one bang it. Like, Kelly Dodd. No. Up. Seriously. Oh, no. Someone just died. Who? Who banged it? Who did that? That was not nice. I actually. I was doing a bit.

[Ronnie]

I was doing a bit.

[Ben]

So Tamara comes and she's like, I made it. Heather's like, hello.

[Gina]

It'S me. I pray.

[Ben]

And Emily's like, oh, let me get my popcorn. So her and Jean are, like, making a big game out of, like, oh, we're eating popcorn. We're hilarious.

[Ronnie]

Emily did very little this episode, and she drove me nuts. Every time she showed up on screen and talked, she's just like, you're at an amusement park and you're tired and you're finally sitting down to have some shitty burger. And then she sits down next to you at the next table and is loud and annoying and then leaves all her garbage on the table for someone else to clean up. Like, she's just, like an annoying person at an amusement park who's walking slowly while you're just trying to get to the roller coaster. I can't deal with her anymore.

[Ben]

Yeah. But I'm glad she found another food prop. So I was pretty. It's actually pretty impressive that she can do that every single time. So Gretchen is like, oh, really?

[Gina]

Showing up with Slade's act shows she's not moving forward with me. She's trying to poke, poke, poke at me. Poke, poke, poke. By the way, stop poking on me. Slay. Jesus. Get that. Get that hook away from me.

[Heather]

Why can't everyone just get along after I make everyone mad at each other? I don't care about none of this. But it's entertaining, okay? Because, like, you know what? Like, I feel bad.

[Ben]

And Gina's like, I mean. And just right after saying, why can't everyone get along? Can't we just be nice?

[Gina]

Gina goes, I mean, Gretchen looks like a fake person. Like, look at her.

[Ben]

And Emily's like, yo, she dips herself in formaldehyde every night.

[Gina]

Yeah, she looks like an Instagram filter from 2003.

[Ben]

She looks like a Barbie filter from 2003. And they start cracking up. First of all, you guys are dicks. And second of all, Emily, you're talking about. You're talking formaldehyde. Are you fucking. Fucking kidding me? You look like you're going 80,000 miles an hour downhill without a helmet on. What are you talking.

[Ronnie]

You look like you're trying to escape a flow bee that's trying to consume your entire body.

[Ben]

You can't even close one of your eyes. You've had different faces every single season. What the fuck are you talking about? New hip.

[Ronnie]

We sat through and were empathetic towards an entire storyline about how you had to wear larger jeans than everyone else because it made you feel conscious about how the way you look. And now you're sitting here. You're just being so shitty right now. I mean, it's one thing for, like, us podcasters do it, but this is actually supposed to be your girlfriend on. On tv. No.

[Ben]

Yeah. You guys. You guys suck. So then. And I'm. And. And you've made me stand up for Gretchen, of all people. How dare you? How dare you? So then we go to Wacky Terry, who stoned, and he's like, hey, babe. I was just congratulating Ryan that his name is Natalia, because then Jen's name when they got married would be jenitalia.

[Ronnie]

That is very funny. That is very funny. I think that we should pitch this to NBCUniversal to get a spin off on the HD Network. It still is out there.

[Ben]

God. What was their TV show that Heather and Terry had for one second, that pilot. Well, they had a pilot. It didn't get picked up. What was it? Remember, she had a big party?

[Ronnie]

Yes, it was.

[Ben]

It was like two years ago. We already forgot about it.

[Ronnie]

It was not the h. It wasn't.

[Ben]

The HD advice with advice with Heather and Terry. I forget what it was.

[Ronnie]

Oh, yeah. This is how. Oh, it was about like. Like we were.

[Ben]

We.

[Ronnie]

We've been through it all. We're a marriage. We're a couple. Like, we will give you advice because when there's cracks, we're going to uncrack the cracked marriage or something like that. Yeah.

[Ben]

They were giving marriage advice. Let me see. They had a pilot for a show called the Seven Year Stitch.

[Ronnie]

That's right. That's what it was. Crack stitch. I don't know why. Yeah.

[Ben]

Help couples on the brink of divorce by providing them with internal and external makeovers.

[Ronnie]

Okay. The first makeover, you want to make sure that you look better than the people who are walking into your service entrance. Because if you look like the servants, your man will probably lose interest in you. Step one, look back.

[Ben]

Don't be fat, bloated, or poor or sober.

[Heather]

Spice things up.

[Ronnie]

Next time you have a casual lunch at Nobu, send all your flatware ahead and have them wash it for you.

[Ben]

It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Tamara]

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[Nick Cannon]

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[Heather]

There was just one catch. She wasn't human.

[Nick Cannon]

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[Ben]

So then we go to the girls. Tamara comes up to the girls and.

[Gina]

Say, you guys, I just got a text, a text about Katie outside driving me blood on me. Get the blood off of me.

[Ronnie]

And Terry's like, gretchen can't, can't you? Thinks, can things be better with an apology? And Gretchen's like, she just walked in with Slade's ex. Look how she's still being petty.

[Heather]

Jen's like, they went through something then and Tamara went hard and she showed up in an FBI hat when stuff was hard with Ryan, and she does things. And we all have to be sensitive all of a sudden. I don't think so. Homie. Don't play that.

[Ronnie]

And Heather's like, I don't get that reference. But I don't throw people away because they're damaged. Only if they're poor and refuse to work for me.

[Ben]

But when did we just say, like, look in the mirror. Work on it, Tamara, look in the mirror. Work on you. Okay, okay. But she is. She is working on herself, but you're just too angry to see it. I'm not faulting you, but you can't see it possibly. Do you have any money in your account?

[Gina]

Hold.

[Ben]

Hold it up to your face, and maybe you can see better, because right now you're seeing, like, a poor person. You're seeing poorly. You have poor vision to understand.

[Ronnie]

And just to follow up on your question of when do we say, look in the mirror and work on it? I do that every day to my mate. Look at that spot. Work on that.

[Ben]

Tamara had a life event. Give her a hot second. Just give her a hot second. That's me, you know, good old Heather. Just trying to look out for everybody's feelings. By the way, fuck that lady who abandoned her children. I hope she's gone from my party. Sensitive.

[Ronnie]

So Emily. Emily's swinging around licorice because she's. Emily does that. That thing where she thinks she's so funny when she's like. I think she almost thinks she's, like, a lady of the people. She's like, oh, look. Look at me. Great course. Swinging around my licorice. Look at all this fancy. I'm like, go back to your amusement park, please. So then Emily's like, give me a Diet Coke, Gaston. Diet Coke. I'm like, she just mortifies me. Why is she on Bravo?

[Ben]

Yeah, she's terrible. So then Gretchen basically stymies Tamara's whole plan by coming right up to Joan going, hi, Jo. Nice to see you, and giving her a kiss. And she's like, oh, my God, Gretchen, Hi. How have you been? So there. So sorry, but that's. That's already over. So Tamara lost that one. And then Jen takes Tamara to talk, and Tamara's like. Or she's. She comes to talk to her a little bit. And Tamara's like, well, we've already talked.

[Gina]

But she can say what she wants. Like, why does your boyfriend keep going after me on social media, attacking me?

[Ronnie]

It's like, tamara again. I know this is getting annoying, but like, you can't complain about a boyfriend coming up to you on social media when you have a podcast and you go after people on your podcast, including.

[Ben]

Her and her boyfriend. So, yeah, people are allowed to respond to you, Tamara. But this is amazing, watching Tamara lose just issue after issue today. I mean, she's already. This is only the first five minutes. She got her asshole handed to her by Matt, and with just one very innocent little line. Then she got her asshole handed to her by Katie as well. Then she walks in here with Joe. Nobody cares. Gretchen makes up with her. I mean, it's just one right after the other. We've had three, and it's not even five minutes yet.

[Ronnie]

And, like, the fact that Jen is going to be the one that really finishes her. When Jen for two seasons was just such a sweet, nice pushover. Like, her whole. Jen's whole thing was that, like, she's so gullible, and you're like, come on, Jen, wake up. And then, like, last season at the end, like, they. She had her Neo moment. She saw the Matrix, and she started doing, like, the slow motion kung fu, and now it's like, watch out, Tamra. She is activated.

[Ben]

I want to go see that. Have you heard? The Matrix is at that new place, the Dome, or what's it called? It's like the. It's kind of like the Sphere, but it's a movie theater in la.

[Heather]

Really?

[Ben]

In, like, England, I think Inglewood.

[Ronnie]

And they're playing the Matrix. You know, I love.

[Ben]

Yeah, they made it like a big. They made, like a big dome of some kind of a event space.

[Ronnie]

I'll be with you. Do you want to go to the Matrix? Let's go. I love the Matrix.

[Ben]

Oh, you do? I loved it, too. I mean, I haven't seen it since it came out, but I loved it as a kid.

[Ronnie]

Oh, my God, I'm obsessed.

[Ben]

Okay. So anyway, Gretchen's like, I'm gonna be.

[Gina]

Nice to Joe, because it's not about Joe. It's. It's. It's getting ready. Rusty, Tamara. It's getting rusty.

[Ben]

So then Heather gets a speech. There's a lot of sparklers going on. And Heather's.

[Ronnie]

Yes, go ahead.

[Ben]

No, go ahead.

[Ronnie]

No, I was gonna say. Cause Heather's like, hello, everyone. Welcome to my birthday party, presented by the memory of Richard Marks, who, sadly, is still trapped in a closet in my basement. We couldn't find the key, so she's giving, like, her own little spiel to welcome everyone, and the staff comes out with the sparklers prematurely, and she's like, oh, it's some premature ejaculation. You know, after this event was done, she walked back, there was like, who was the one who decided to walk out first? You, get over here. Get over here. You think you're clever? You think you're smart? How many plates do you have at Nobu? You shall never. You think you can do this to me? If you ever mess with me and my birthday celebration ever again, it will cost you a lot. And I am not just saying that that is a threat.

[Ben]

Poor Alfredo walked out of there with his hair on fire. Now we'll see who's sparkling early. So she's like, well, you know, I would like to welcome you all to my birthday party. Premature. Premature ejaculation. You have just seen me not fire somebody. I just wanted to say I appreciate all of you. You. You are all my favorite things. If Oprah ever told me to look under my seat, I would find you. I know Oprah. Thank you.

[Ronnie]

Now, all of you assembled here, I want you to look to your right and look up, and you will see I have attached a nice little picture of Drake in the upper right hand corner of this room. And now you know what it's like to live in my house just to see Drake out there. Hi, Drake. Hi, neighbor Drake.

[Ben]

All right, let's. So now they dance, and Shannon's like, whoa, I'm not gonna say I drop it like it's hot. I drop it like it's 60.

[Heather]

I'm sorry, I don't know if I understand this reference. Why do we drop? What. What do we. What is the itch that we're dropping and, like, it's hot? Is this a song? Gina's like, well, I can drop it like it's lukewarm. Because, like, I'm here for a good time, not a long time. That was for you, Drake. Because, like, I don't want to, like, take Advil when I get home because otherwise, tomorrow morning I wake up and I'll feel bad.

[Ben]

Yeah. So then the next day, we see a close up of a sign that.

[Gina]

Says F by Gina and Travis.

[Ronnie]

So Gina's chopping pillows. She's. This is her HGTV moment. She's gonna be selling a house, and.

[Heather]

She'S like, travis and I crushed in real estate. We did, like, $10 million in business.

[Ronnie]

It's because you had, like, most of that was Elizabeth Vargas's estate that she gave to you in Palm Springs, I'm sure. Because as far as we can tell, you're now selling, like, Like a, like a two bedroom house at a retirement community.

[Gina]

We're rocking and rolling.

[Ben]

And so you know how some, some real estate people will put out like cookies and some will put out, you know, keychains with their face on them or whatever.

[Gina]

We're putting out stretch balls because, like, like straight. It's like you gotta get, you know, it's like a metaphor because, like, you, like, gotta crush stress balls. Because, like, it's stressful. But also like, odd thing on the show is that Travis has big ball. So.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I don't know if she really thought this one through. It's like, hi, welcome to our house. Before we give you a tour, here's a stress ball to hold on to before you see everything else. It's like, what, what's. What's going to happen in this house?

[Heather]

It's haunted. So if you see a ghost, just squeeze the ball and you'll be okay.

[Ben]

What are you taking my blood pressure? The retirement home.

[Ronnie]

The. Is this. Got to squeeze the. What happened here? Just go out.

[Ben]

What, are you going to stick a hose up my ass and check my colon?

[Ronnie]

Two cheese. So wrong. I can't go to a house without holding a ball. I mean, enough already, Enough. So meanwhile, she's in a New York retirement community. Apparently.

[Ben]

Meanwhile, Jen and Ryan go to a dental. Dental place. And the nurse lady is like, oh, doctor, they love their uppers so much, they want to do their lowers in time for a wedding. They just bring up the judge model. Bring out the judge model. Okay. She wants to make sure she has a triangular row of possum teeth in case there are any predators in the front yard.

[Heather]

Thank you so much. We really just want Tamara teeth.

[Ronnie]

Ryan's like, yeah, we're addicted to our teeth now. Which sounds kind of up if you think about it. So Jen's talking about her like, you.

[Heather]

Know, it's like, what's the OC MILF list is Boobs, tummy tuck, chew wagon, and veneers.

[Ronnie]

So this guy, this dentist comes out who is just like. He's like in a brown shirt with like a random bow tie. Like, I think he was like, trying to look like a certain sort of way for the camera. And it just was. He looked like he should have been selling, like, popcorn somewhere.

[Ben]

Yeah, he was very like the. The backstory to Orville for sure. But he comes in and he lets them try on their lowers. I guess they have to wear them for a week to see if they like them or something. So they have like a mold that they put on and then they show a before and after of Jen's molar or Jen's bottom teeth. They're perfect. They were perfect before. Like, why does she. And they look exactly the same with the veneers. I'm confused. Are they just, like. Are veneers better because you don't have to take care of the porcelain as much, or is it easier?

[Ronnie]

I'm not sure. I just was really distracted by that hair clip that she'd put in right in front of her lower right tooth, just hanging out Tamara's hair just right there. Like, really, girl.

[Ben]

I just want to get one of Tamara's breast implants put in to my teeth. Is that possible?

[Ronnie]

Single white dentures.

[Ben]

So back over at Gina's, Gina's like.

[Gina]

Oh, Tamara might stop by. I don't know if she qualifies, though.

[Ben]

So she shows the house, and a guy's like, what?

[Ronnie]

What?

[Ben]

I'm supposed to squeeze it? Ah, come over here, honey.

[Gina]

No, not me. Okay, all right.

[Ben]

Because. What. Is this supposed to be you? Where's the lady from the picture? I just want to see the lady from the picture.

[Gina]

That's me.

[Ben]

No, no, the hot one.

[Gina]

That's me.

[Ben]

No, no, this one right here. It doesn't look like you. What are you, her mother? Get her out of school. Tell her to come say hi to daddy.

[Heather]

Okay, so I'm just gonna ask you to take. Take a seat on this chair here.

[Ronnie]

And I was gonna lift you up to the second floor.

[Heather]

Okay, Goodbye.

[Ronnie]

So then my grandma used to have one of those, and I loved it. And for some reason, like, we weren't allowed to ever, like, sit on it and ride it up the staircase. I was like, but it was the most fun thing ever. The few times that we got to sit on it and, like, ride. Ride the chair up the staircase.

[Heather]

Ugh.

[Ronnie]

It's my dream.

[Ben]

There was a movie where there was a horror movie where one of the ladies had one of those chairs. It was like, poltergeist or one of those. Actually, I think Poltergeist. And then she made the chair, like, fly up the stairs and out the roof. Never forget that. And I think it was.

[Ronnie]

I love a slapstick, Alice.

[Ben]

Yeah, I think it was like the lady who played flow on Alice, who was the one stuck in that chair, and they just like, yeah.

[Ronnie]

Oh, yeah. Went around. It was like a circular staircase, right?

[Heather]

It was a famous scene.

[Ronnie]

Was like, yeah, maybe this poltergeist, too.

[Ben]

I know.

[Ronnie]

I only saw. I only saw the first poltergeist. Oh, my God. There's Sorry. Speaking.

[Ben]

We'll see.

[Ronnie]

Guys, a big ass over there just. There's a spider crawling around my camera. Get out of here.

[Ben]

I saw them everywhere in this place. California. There's spiders everywhere. Speaking of, Tamara comes into this scene.

[Gina]

And say, hi, everybody, it's me. It's just braid. So tell me about your Wednesday. What do you have, like a group or something? Yeah, it's good. You got a lot of old people. I guess I could live here now. I'm old enough. That would be fun. Everyone probably got a UTI in here. Some. Hey, you got herpes. What you got over there?

[Heather]

Where's Sandy? Where's Sandy? Where's my mom? Not really. Where is she?

[Ronnie]

I'm so distracted by this spider. Get the. Off my camera. Get the. It's like in a. I don't want to. It's like it's. It's not really in a position to be. It's like. It's a weird.

[Ben]

Hit the camera.

[Ronnie]

Okay, let me try to, like, Let me try to use one.

[Ben]

You can do it. I believe in you.

[Ronnie]

No, the thing is this. Okay, okay. We were doing it. I'm trying to brush it off this. That way I can get onto it. Okay. Oh, now. Oh, it's going crazy. I just want to get it to the floor and then I can just go off. But, like, don't get into my podcast equipment while I'm recording. Well, I'm discussing Tamara Judge. I need this to be a spider free environment.

[Ben]

So did it escape now?

[Ronnie]

It's on my desk, scurrying about. I don't know where it is. Oh, there it is. Okay, now it's. Oh, God, it went under the recording equipment. Okay, you know what? It's just gonna live there. It's fine. Just don't be on my camera.

[Ben]

So Tamara's like, yeah, everybody's got an.

[Gina]

FTD in here for that. Spiders walking around with the big.

[Heather]

I feel bad because that spider didn't even get to have a stress ball.

[Gina]

So Gina's like, I don't even understand how, like, you and Katie, like, even got into this. Please.

[Ben]

So then we go back to Ryan and Jen, and Ryan's like, oh, yeah, I saw Katie and Shannon had it dust up. And Matt said, we're leaving. And then Tamara made her thirsty entrance. God, thirsty. Tamara. And Jen's like, well, I'm gonna meet up with her because, you know, everyone says she's going through therapy. I just want to see if that helps. You know, Maybe it will. Maybe it will. If it does I'm going to send a huge bouquet to that doctor and say thank you. Thank you so much for doing that. Thank you.

[Heather]

Thank you so much.

[Ronnie]

And he's like, well, I hope you're surprised, but. But you'll probably be disappointed. So then go back to Gina. And she's like, you know, I've been.

[Heather]

Trying to communicate to Jen, but she has anger from last year. And Tamara's like, yeah, I'm sorry. That's stupid. My reaction at that party was to Ryan. Even after Eddie said, let's move on, Ryan blasted him on social media. I mean, she's that girl who acts all kind, but she talks shit when people tell you that. That they're kind. Like, that they're kind. They're not kind. Okay, so, ha. All you kind people. Hey, ever try to have a kind bar? Guess what they should call it? A not kind bar. Cause kind things are not kind of.

[Gina]

Yeah, it's a meme bar. That's what that is. Enjoy your mean pie. It's got lots of sugar in this. Stupid.

[Ben]

But I love Tamara saying that people who tell you they're kind are lying. Tamara, you spent a whole season trying to convince us that you're Christian now.

[Ronnie]

So she went through a. You're actively going to therapy. You're actively going to therapy now to convince people that you're actually kind, just damaged. She's so full of shit.

[Gina]

She goes, oh, yeah, she can say stuff to me. But then I do one little thing, and I'm the devil.

[Ben]

You did not do one little thing, first of all. And, yes, you were the devil. So then we go back to Ryan, and he goes, what did you even do to Tamara? I don't get it. She's like, I don't know. But she's telling everyone I'm obsessed with her. So then we see a clip. And of course, this was all started by Gina. Shocker. So Gina's like, oh, Jen, by the.

[Gina]

Way, like, Tamara said, like, you wanted, like, to be Tamara. And, like, she said that you put her in an actual old.

[Ben]

You put it in her actual old hair extensions.

[Gina]

Like, I mean, what the heck?

[Ben]

We all look the same. And just like, oh, my God, why would I want to be a woman like Tamara? I mean, yeah. I mean, look, Ryan, you said that there's a smidge. Jealousy. There he goes. Yeah, there's jealousy. Have you seen Tamara? It's like a broom looking out. A broom looking out over at a fleet of cars, you know?

[Ronnie]

Yeah. Poor riches. They're like, if only we could make Cars levitate too. Why do we get stuck with brooms? This thing doesn't even have a radio.

[Ben]

These cars can be polished and plushed and vacuumed and waxed.

[Ronnie]

We're just brooms. It's just like waiting for pony ass.

[Ben]

To squeeze us into fight.

[Ronnie]

We should be sweeping things up, not flying across the countryside. Jen's like, I mean, who's the one.

[Heather]

Who asked for an inspo pic when you were getting a tummy tuck? That was you, honey.

[Ronnie]

And we see a picture of that.

[Heather]

You know, we have to get down.

[Ben]

That was so funny.

[Gina]

She's like, hey there, Jen, I'm trying to get a belly button put on. So I was wondering if I could use your belly button as an inspo package. I love the placement. Love the placement of your belly button.

[Ronnie]

Of course. So Jen is like, we just have.

[Heather]

To get down to what happened and she has to take ownership. You know, she goes, you know, the lies just escalate. Like, I'm a stalker, I'm obsessed. She loves Ryan. I mean, now, now he's a cheater and has the FBI chasing him and he steals money. Like, I just don't get it anymore.

[Ben]

So now we go to Heather, who's wacky. She's like, I am working with both Josh's from Million Dollar Listing la, which has now been canceled, but they hired my son, so we're getting them back on tv. Let's just. It's just, it's. It's a cycle. It's a. It's a TV star cycle.

[Ronnie]

Well, there are no better agents than Josh Altman and Flag. I mean, they had a bit of a falling out. Which you all remember from Million Dollar Listing la, right? We all watch that show. No. Can you roll the flashback? Anyone? Okay, let's see footage of them having a scripted lunch together. Okay.

[Ben]

Not even the people who watch Bravo for a living. Not even you. Okay.

[Ronnie]

No.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Ronnie]

Okay.

[Ben]

Actually, I tried, you know. Cause usually I do stick with the million dollar listing LA's especially, but I just, just, I was like, enough.

[Ronnie]

I used to.

[Ben]

Enough.

[Ronnie]

I used to.

[Ben]

But I made it halfway through and.

[Ronnie]

I was like, I think selling Sunset kind of killed it for me because after selling Sunset, Million Dollar Listing just felt kind of stale, you know? And honestly, I just, I. I could not get on board with Josh Flag and. And Josh Altman. That was just too much. And like, honestly, I still, I just, I don't know. Just so you only take on so much. Instead it's.

[Ben]

They. She walks through this house that she gutted and Then left for dead because they didn't want to put any more money into it, which I can't really blame them. And they put in floors, and already the house is livable. So, boom, you're done. Like, it changed.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, it looks good.

[Ben]

Yeah, it looks great.

[Ronnie]

That was really fast, too, by the way. Yeah, she's like, well, it's difficult to put a dime to it, you know, when. You know, like, when it's a. When it's a failure. But you have to do the numbers. And I win. I win. I win.

[Ben]

Did you know that Heather was taking. First of all, Heather did, like, a community theater show or something, and she's all. She also took classes at Groundlings. Did you know that? I hope they put that on the air, because I want to see how they're doing improv at Groundlings. I have to see it. Okay, here's a sketch. It's called you're poor. Okay? So it's this lady. She's gorgeous, and everyone wants to be just like her. And she goes into a store, but everyone there is poor.

[Ronnie]

Okay, and freeze. No freeze. You're about to go in the wrong entrance. The service entrance is around the corner.

[Ben]

So let's see. So they talk about how they put in 45 grand. They do, like, a wacky scene. The guys are like, oh, I could sell it better than him. Almond's better than Flag. Okay, so that was it. So then we go to the next scene, which is Tamara's house.

[Ronnie]

Yes. By the way, I did like Altman saying that Heather was wedged but sandwiched between LeBron and. And Drake. Oh, yeah, because you know that she has no idea who LeBron is. Oh, yes. LeBron. LeBron, as we all know, famous shoe. Shoe designer or textiles. He does textiles. He's.

[Ben]

I love paper towels. Love his paper towels.

[Ronnie]

Lebron, as we all know, president of Lebanon. Right? Help me out here, someone.

[Ben]

Commercials.

[Gina]

Here comes one right now.

[Ronnie]

So now we go to Tamara's house. So Tamara's gonna check in with Sophia.

[Heather]

So she's like, Sophia's going to community college right now to get her General Ed. And from there, she wants to get, like. I should say General ed. Gen. Eds Sophia. Eddie gives me.

[Ben]

I was gonna say, what is. What are we doing here? Not another Emily storyline.

[Heather]

She wants to go to the Music Institute in Los Angeles. She's also an entrepreneur, and she buys her clothes online. She's actually selling micro clothes. Well, as well. Isn't she amazing, guys?

[Ben]

Wow. You're selling camera dresses online. Someone save this Child, this girl's too smart for this. So Sophia has her dress, and she's like, mom, we need to get rid of this one. I think Elmo wants his skin back.

[Heather]

You're funny. Do another one.

[Ronnie]

Oh, my God. It's like a gaudy funeral.

[Heather]

Mom, that's funny.

[Ben]

Do you want to look like a worm?

[Gina]

You're funny. You're really funny.

[Heather]

She buys her clothes at Goodwill. I don't know what that is, but she goes to it. And she does have. She does have a good sense of style. Like, she's helping me, like, for my age. But I'm, like, not going to Goodwill. It's not gonna happen.

[Gina]

Don't have it. Not going to it.

[Ben]

So they want to do a tour of the music Institute, and Sophia doesn't want to because she doesn't want to move out. She's like, mom, I don't want to, like, spend $30 on eggs. Okay? Like, and I have a cat. Like, I need a place that accepts pets.

[Gina]

And she's like, I feel like you're making excuses because you're afraid to go because you'd rather stay here and listen your mom get banged by that guy from Costco in the downstairs apartment.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. And she's basically saying, like, I know it's scary, but you got to do it, because they basically become, like, codependent and stopping Sophia from living her life. And so then we see two weeks earlier in therapy, Tamara being like when.

[Heather]

She decided she was going to la. Cry, cry, cry. I couldn't even think about it. I would just break out in tears. And the thought of not having her there every single day. I'm sympathetic, America.

[Ben]

And the therapist is like, wow, look at you. But you're gonna help her out so much by all of this therapy you're doing.

[Gina]

It's pronounced therapy. Don't fuck it up.

[Ben]

Therapy.

[Gina]

Therapy. Can't even pronounce it right. It's the worst actor ever. I never should have let her. To take you from that ground. Language class.

[Ronnie]

You are doing the twerk.

[Heather]

It's called doing the work. Doing the work, not the twerk.

[Gina]

Yeah. Therapy gets me tools, and it makes things. It makes me able to couple things better. That's right. Now I got a part. Not to s. You stupid. You should have done that to me. I couldn't express myself.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. Tamara is getting tools the way I buy tools, which is like a usual. An impulse buy on Amazon, and I put them in my closet, and then it takes me about three years before every.

[Heather]

You know what I really Need.

[Ronnie]

I need that. I need to really buy a Roto leveler. I'm gonna get that right now. It's like, yes, you can have tools, but do you use your tools? That's a whole other question.

[Ben]

I do not. So this whole thing about her leaving and then she starts crying because she's.

[Gina]

Like, yeah, no, I had to go to therapy. I never gone this long before. But, you know, my. My parents got divorced. That was so sad. Remember? And then, you know, me and your dad, we're in a bad place. Remember him? Yeah, that's been real bad. Maybe Sydney leaving. Sydney leaving.

[Ben]

You need to come up with some new shit. Your parents got divorced? Really? You're cry. You're going to cry over your Simon divorce when you cheated on that man with someone who worked at his office? And no, Tamara, sorry.

[Heather]

I couldn't even watch the White Lotus season one because there was a girl named Sweeney who was in it. I mean, Sydney, you know what I'm trying to say? It's just flashback to therapy. Please cry.

[Gina]

Cry.

[Heather]

Okay. It's just so painful to not have your child around you. I can't wrap my brain around it.

[Gina]

Yeah. You know, because I get triggered and stuff. I learned that in therapy that word triggered. My third language is calling people dumb.

[Ben]

And so she talks about Sydney moving out when she was 14 and never coming back. And. And when Sophia moves out, she's not leaving, but because she was traumatized by Sidney, now she still worries that Sophie is going to leave her, and she's worried that she'll never talk to her again. I don't know, just maybe be less horrible to her. And also stop bringing up the daughter who doesn't want you bringing her up on tv. I mean, that's like a very simple way to not piss her off.

[Ronnie]

Well, you know, honestly, at this point, though, I have to say that daughter has to get over it. Sorry.

[Ben]

Really?

[Ronnie]

Listen, do you. Where do you think your money's coming, young lady? Where do you think your money is coming from? It's from your mom going on this television show.

[Ben]

Her.

[Ronnie]

You're not a teenager anymore. You can have a relationship with your mom.

[Ben]

When someone's that toxic, I say cut the cord. Cut the cord.

[Ronnie]

I felt like it was like, very moody teenager, and now it's like, okay, you're in your 20s now. You can probably, like, it's time to move on. Because, like, until she moves on, we have to deal with it. So then we go to Pilates class and Emily and Gretchen are there, and Shannon shows up Late. And they're like, we did this in Arizona. So then Shannon's like, oh, what?

[Heather]

How do I do this? Oh, look at me.

[Ben]

I'm.

[Heather]

I'm losing my balance. This is for those who wanted a sequel to Wacky Shannon Eating Wacky Hors d'. Oeuvres. Here's Wacky Shannon doing wacky Pilates. Wow.

[Ben]

Well, look at me hanging upside down on a rope thing.

[Gina]

Whoa.

[Ben]

Oh, can I have a spring roll while I do this? Is that what they're called? Why don't they call them winter rolls?

[Heather]

Wow. I feel like a winter spring roll right now because I'm wrapped in cloth. I'm so confused. It's kind of like a sexual position. Earl to Pearl wishes.

[Ben]

So they're being wacky. And the instructors, like, loosen your. Loosen your grip, ladies. Slither like a snake. And she goes, oh, that would be Katie. So then we go to a coffee bar where Katie is joining Gina and Heather.

[Ronnie]

And what sort of trap is this? I don't understand why Gina and Heather are being nice to Katie. Because Heather hated Katie all of last year and was, like, the main person who hated Katie. And now this year, she's the one who's, like, trying to. Later on, she says, I just want you to have a win. Like, what is happening? Like, what is the.

[Heather]

The.

[Ronnie]

What is the end game here for. For Heather? She must have. There must be a bigger fish to fry that she's. She's angling for. What. What is the. Why isn't. What sort of pawn is she?

[Ben]

That's what Heather does. Pretend to be nice to you, listen to you, say some stuff, twist it, take it back to Tamara and watch Tamara tear her limb from limb.

[Ronnie]

Okay, well, that. That works. So Katie joins, and Gina's like, oh, my God.

[Heather]

You like, like, match this place. Oh, my God. Because they serve matcha here. That's so hilarious for me.

[Ben]

So Katie asked them how the rest of the night was, and Heather, you know, has just two eggs.

[Ronnie]

Did you notice that?

[Ben]

Eggs?

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I did.

[Ben]

Well, she had, like, a little salad, an avocado salad on the side in a little bowl. But I noticed how they eat, and I was like, this is why whenever you really pay attention to how the super thin ones. Ones eat. This is why they're thin. I mean, Katie comes and she's like, I'll have a tea and a cucumber salad. I mean, that's just like a little tiny side of cucumbers, you know, tiny.

[Ronnie]

That's all she eats. So Heather's like, can I Ask what happened when you guys left my wonderful party.

[Heather]

Gina's like, yeah, because Tamara said that your husband yelled at her.

[Ronnie]

And Kitty's like, matt yelled at her. And then we see, like, flashbacks. Right? Like, And Katie's like, that's hilarious. And we see that.

[Ben]

Absolutely. He's not yelling at her.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. Going. He literally goes, you started it. You're gonna pretend like you care. Yeah, that was it.

[Ben]

Screaming abuse. So Katie's like, yeah, Tamara puts out a half truth, so when you come back and argue, you look like the liar. And then we go back to Pilates, and they're all getting affirmation cards. Oh, God. So did you ever affirmation card at Pilates? I will shove it up your ass.

[Ronnie]

I don't want a card. After I've worked out. Gretchen's card had, like, an image of, like, three cacti. One was winking at her, one was yawning.

[Heather]

And then it said, I forgive myself for past mistakes and failures.

[Ronnie]

Well, thank you to this tribunal of, like, bored and winky cacti for giving me this affirmation.

[Ben]

You hand me a card after Pilates, it better be a gift certificate, like a gift card to Baskin Robbins, or I will murder you with the card. Affirmation card.

[Heather]

Well, have you had. Gretchen, have you had a conversation with Tamara? Tamara Judge Gord's like, no, I don't have this desire to be friends with Tamara Judge.

[Ronnie]

It's like, but if you can have some sort of resolution, don't you want to do that?

[Heather]

She's like, well, why would I even set myself up?

[Ronnie]

Because maybe there's a chance that she would surprise you. I mean, Emily, you're the one who's in, like, a stupid ass feud with Katie over this nanny situation. Like, the same thing could have been said to you.

[Ben]

But, I mean, Tamara literally just walked in with Joe, and they're like, why.

[Ronnie]

Won'T you give Tamara another chance?

[Ben]

Okay, guys.

[Ronnie]

And these infractions are so much worse than anything that Emily is. Is accusing Katie of doing.

[Ben]

Yes. And so Gretchen's like, even if she.

[Gina]

Said, I'm sorry, I still wouldn't believe her because it's been 15 years.

[Ben]

Jan is like, wow, there is a repeated history of patterns. I mean, how many times you have to put yourself in a position to get hurt, huh?

[Heather]

Although based on this class, apparently it's 25 times. Thanks a lot, instructor.

[Ronnie]

So Emily's like, well, what about Katie?

[Heather]

Well, I said. I said what I needed to say to Katie, and I'm not going to talk to her anymore. I'm not going to open it up again and be stupid. I absolutely will not. Well, speaking of feeling stupid, I was trying to defend Katie and I went to bed and I was struggling with that because I really like her a lot. Well, if she videotaped me, I guarantee you she has recorded each and every other of you. She's recorded everything.

[Ben]

So you've seen the clip that's been going around all week of Ireland when Shannon and Heather were recording Kelly having a meltdown in that hallway. Right.

[Ronnie]

Not only did I see that clip when you were on vacation, I'm. I think I mentioned it, or maybe we even talked. No, no, I think it was before you were here. No, maybe. I don't remember. But we brought it up on. It was brought up on this show. Like you're all. You guys are all in a tizzy about Katie, but It was Heather DeBrow who videotaped Kelly Dodd in Ireland.

[Ben]

Yeah. Hypocrites, you know, and of course, the whole. I guess people would argue, well, she didn't take it to Alexis. Who cares? They videotaped to put it on tv. And that was also the episode where they were trying to make her get drunk and look stupid and all this. They're such hypocrites on this show.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I. I agree. So back over the coffee shop, Heather is like, well, I have to ask you another thing, Katie, did you meet up with Kiki Monique? And Katie's like, yeah, I mean, we had lunch. I mean, I met her when we went to that event in la. You know that event? No, I don't. But she was, you know, she's really funny. She's what? Hilarious young lady. And I heard you were asking Kiki to put out stories to hurt us. And Kitty's like, I did not. Who did you hear that from? Tamara on her own.

[Ben]

Shocker. It's Tamara. So then two days earlier, Tamra saying.

[Gina]

Katie contacted somebody that has a radio show and she's got a podcast, and she asked this girl to respond, repeat something that I'm not gonna repeat. It is so bad. It is just so, so, so bad. I'm gonna repeat it. I might repeat that. Make me try to be that. Repeat it.

[Ronnie]

Prove it. Never did I do that. Never. You know, I have listened to Kiki Monique for years. I mean, it's gotta be 10, 15, 25 years she's been on the radio.

[Heather]

I listen to her all the time.

[Ronnie]

And I thought she was a cool down home journalist. And the producer is like, well, did anything about the other ladies come up. No, I mean, why? If I went to lunch with someone who's on radio Andy, why would we.

[Heather]

Ever talk about Bravo?

[Ben]

Okay, so are they gonna play a clip of this Kiki Monique show where Kiki has all this inside scoop that she heard from an anonymous source? Because otherwise. Shut up. I mean, I don't doubt she sat there and talked shit with Kiki. Like, her name is Kiki. Of course you talk shit with Kiki. It's literally her name. The instructions are in the name. Okay, yeah, but he also has relationships with a lot of those people, so I doubt that she's going to be going around getting messy like that. But.

[Ronnie]

No, and I think that, like, all of these Real Housewives go around and talk to everyone about everyone, and now they're gonna just make it seem like Katie is. Is like some vile mole. Whatever. Like, I don't. I don't care. I don't care if she did bring up anything. I don't care if she said anything to Kiki to get her to repeat it. The funny. It's just. It's still so funny to me that they're angrier at Katie for allegedly trying to get Kiki to say something on the air versus Tamara, who just does say things on the air. Yeah.

[Ben]

So Heather's like, I mean, look, Katie, no one knows what to believe anymore. Some of us, including myself, we sit back and we say, hmm, what's next?

[Ronnie]

It's hard to know. Like, are you poor? Are you really poor? I can't even tell anymore. It's so hard. All I know is that when I see you on my ring cam, I hide in one of my very large closets. That's all I know. Poor people are coming for us all.

[Ben]

So Katie is like, look, I owned all the stuff that I'm being accused of doing because I did them. I'm not denying anything, but I'm denying this Kiki thing. This did not happen. And she's like. I mean, it's like a game of telephone. Everything's twisted, and that's not what happened. And genuine Gina's like, I genuinely, like.

[Gina]

Want to want Katie to, like, have a triumphant moment. But, like, the problem is she's only told a consistent. Like, it's a beard. It's bad.

[Heather]

It's so bad.

[Gina]

It's so bad.

[Ronnie]

Listen, I've tried to be in your corner, Katie, starting three seconds ago and ending now, but I don't know if I could do this anymore. That was a very tough three seconds. Katie's Like, I appreciate that. I mean, I even told Gina that. That I. I appreciated those three seconds. You're in my corner, and I would love. Oh, I would love for you to score just, like.

[Heather]

What's his name?

[Ronnie]

Bon Leroy.

[Heather]

What's my neighbor's name? Marriott.

[Ben]

The guy. The Bon Bon person. You know, the guy who came up with the little ice creams and the chocolate. God, I love those.

[Ronnie]

I'm so proud of him every time he scores. So. By the way, Heather, when. Since when have you been in Katie's corner? And why would you. Why would you love her.

[Heather]

Her to school?

[Ronnie]

I. I swear she has. I'm just trying to parse it out because, like, I know the reason why Tamara's going hard at Katie, because Tamara's going hard at Katie because she can tear apart one of Shannon's new allies. Because ultimately, it always comes down to Tamara versus Shannon. Right? So Tamara has one on that front. She has. Now, Shannon doesn't really have anyone on this show at this point. She's just sort of, like, alone. She has no. She has no buddies. 19 and Emily, they're on Team Tamra. Heather's the. It's always up and down with Heather and Shannon. There's no one left for Shannon, so Tamara has won that one. But Heather, I'm just. I think, is Heather now gonna try to go after Tamara? Because Heather can't go after Tamara on her own. Do you think that's what's happening here? She wants to embolden Katie.

[Ben]

Nice to Katie, or you think it's.

[Ronnie]

Just that you want to set up Katie for failure?

[Ben]

She's. She's having a scene with Katie to confront her about the blogger things. She's only. She's only being nice for this one scene so she can make Katie look stupid by accusing her of blogger stuff, and now she's gonna disappear.

[Ronnie]

I just like to. Game of Thrones narrative. I like to. I like to make it seem like it's much more exciting than it is.

[Ben]

I think that Gina was just like.

[Gina]

I'm not going there alone with her guys.

[Ben]

And Emily's like, I'm not going.

[Ronnie]

Yeah.

[Ben]

What, are you kidding? I'm cooking an egg in my purse. So Heather's like, I'll do it. I'll add that little snitch for all the bloggery blogger lies. Yeah, she's therapy cameras.

[Ronnie]

Dirty work. So now we have some clips of things going on around the. Around the county. So at Shannon's house, she's with Archie, and she's like, well, I'm I'm gonna.

[Heather]

Bring Archie to the beach. But, Archie, I'm bringing bread because you're going to get diarrhea. We all know it. So have some healthy bread. You're gonna get some nice, delicious Ezekiel bread, just like every dog loves.

[Ben]

Then we go over to Gretchen's, and she's cooking with Slade and her little twin daughter. And she's like, oh, my God, Slee.

[Gina]

We already had all of her tools. Why did you buy her more cooking tools?

[Ben]

And it's like, that's like me saying, what? You bought a dress? You already have a dress.

[Ronnie]

What I'm trying to say is women, no matter what the age, are basically like children. Am I right? So then we go to Katie's house.

[Gina]

Go.

[Ben]

You had that removed last week, Gretchen.

[Gina]

All right, well, it looks good.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I like.

[Gina]

By the way, is it toast ready? I can't smell it.

[Ronnie]

The toast has been ready. It just got. We face tuned the toast as well, so it's just that blur. I like how we're mad at Jean and Emily for saying that Gretchen looks so face tuned, but, like, we're all like, she's so face tuned. So Katie is at Katie's house. We sort of settle in on Katie's house, and Katie is telling Matt. She's like, well, I met with Gina and Heather, and Gina was actually great because she didn't really talk very much. Huh. What a relief.

[Heather]

She was like, I can see from.

[Ronnie]

Both sides how you feel.

[Heather]

And she's like, I'm in a middle spot.

[Ronnie]

And I'm like, I get that. They also dropped this bomb on me. Tamara apparently told Heather that I'm using this girl Kiki to plant stories about them. And I said, prove it. Show me.

[Ben]

Matt's like, whatever, you're perfect in this house. Like, seriously, like, Tamara Judge is in this friend group, and you're the untrustworthy one. Okay, okay. Can we just go to bed, please? Let's just go to bed. So then we go to Tamara and Jen's big meetup, and Tamara's like, there's.

[Gina]

So many other things I could be doing right now. I could be praying. I could be praying to Satan. I could be praying to Jesus. I could tell. I could tell Jesus all the mean shit Satan said. I could tell Satan that Jesus cough and fat.

[Heather]

I don't know what Jen wants to say to me, but I. I'm hopeful we can move forward because if it's something. Because if I said something I shouldn't have, I already apologized for. What else do you want from me. That's therapy talking. That's how you know you're healed.

[Ronnie]

So Jen.

[Ben]

Jen comes up. She's like, hi. And Tamara goes, oh, hi.

[Gina]

I have that belt. Stop.

[Ronnie]

Which is. Wow. Yeah, that's what she's trying to say. But Jen's like, oh, my God, I'm obsessed.

[Heather]

Yeah, obsessed with me. Well, thanks so much for meeting me. Yeah. Well, what do you want to talk about? Well, hi. A lot, actually. I know that you're, you know, you're going through a lot, and I know there's a lot going on with Teddy, and all the girls are telling me how heavy that is on you. How could you use the H word? Okay, you're not allowed to say that on this cast. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I can only imagine.

[Gina]

I want Teddy. You called it heavy. I'm telling that.

[Heather]

I just want to ask you so many questions, and I want to know that you're going to answer me honestly.

[Gina]

Oh, yeah. Why wouldn't I ask you honestly? Come on, try me. Try me. Stupid. I'm always honest. I'm always, always me. I'm always honest.

[Ben]

She goes, okay, so where did it all go wrong for you? Where did our friendship fall apart? Tamara, I just don't understand.

[Gina]

Well, what went south was when we went to dinner at Katie's house, and I admitted I was an asshole, okay? And I went off on Ryan, and then Ryan called Eddie a baby bitch. So he's not saying innocent.

[Ben]

No, you started it. And people stood up for themselves, Tamara. That's not the same thing. Like, you went way hard. You came with machine guns to a. To a balloon fight.

[Ronnie]

You. You went on TV and brought this FBI thing onto the TV show. You know, that's the thing on. On these shows, people are upset. Get upset when people bring sort of stuff that's lurking in the background onto camera. People don't like that. You know? And so Jen's like, yeah, well, you.

[Heather]

Run around about the FBI, then you make allegations that my home with my children was raided.

[Gina]

Yeah. And you say.

[Heather]

Can say whatever you want, because if anybody says anything back, they're the bad ones.

[Ronnie]

I'm like, that's. She did.

[Ben]

It's you. It's you who's saying it.

[Ronnie]

It's you.

[Gina]

Oh, God.

[Heather]

You're gonna say that to my husband? That. Say that my husband doesn't have a job and doesn't make any money. I had built a banger about that.

[Ben]

Okay. Does your husband have a job and does your husband have any money? Because it looks like he's following you around sucking off your teeth.

[Ronnie]

Wasn't that the storyline last year?

[Heather]

It's like, yeah, Eddie's not really doing anything with himself ever since cut fitness clothes. So I just want him to do something because he's getting really upset because he doesn't have a job.

[Gina]

Yeah, I dare say my husband doesn't have a job and didn't do anything.

[Ben]

So Jen's like, let's not. Let's go this way, okay? Because this maybe will work better for you.

[Gina]

She goes, don't be fat and condescending to me, okay? I don't know who the hell you think you are, but you're not. You're not who I think you are. Maybe it's something who doesn't remember who she is. She just woke up.

[Heather]

I do remember.

[Gina]

I'm just gonna realize her husband was doing it the whole time.

[Heather]

No, I'm Jen. I'm Jen. Yeah, I remember who I am. Jen Petranti. Yeah, I do. Isn't that amazing? I do remember. Thank you so much for reminding me to remember.

[Gina]

Yeah, you think you're somebody that's so above, like, you told Heather, the pro.

[Ronnie]

So last week we go back to that pub and Jen goes, heather, why.

[Heather]

Do you lower yourself? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Ronnie]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's bullshit. Are you not lowering yourself?

[Ben]

And so Tamara's like, oh, yeah, well.

[Gina]

I'm not the one that gets evicted that guy. What about that?

[Ben]

And she goes, okay, does it make you feel better that I got evicted?

[Gina]

No, but you can't say that I'm lower. Cause you're lower than me because you got addicted.

[Ronnie]

She's like.

[Heather]

And she's like, yeah, you got caught. Caught what? Cheating?

[Gina]

Yeah.

[Heather]

You've never cheated before, Tamara.

[Gina]

Maybe.

[Heather]

I do hear stories. Oh, now you didn't cheat. Suddenly didn't cheat? No, I left Simon for Eddie. And it was. No, no, no, no. No crossover. No crossover. She goes, well, I did the same.

[Gina]

As Will happen to find one of Simon's best friends that he worked with in the same office, but there was no overlapping it all.

[Heather]

And I said the same thing with Will, and I never said that I didn't cheat on Will. Okay, so it was the first time or the second time?

[Ronnie]

Because now Tamara's run out because everything she's trying to get to Jen at, like, Jen's like, yeah, okay, what else? And so she's like, okay, well, there was a second time.

[Ben]

Now I'll just make. Yeah, now I'll just. Now I'LL just straight up make stuff up. So she's like, what are you talking about?

[Gina]

She goes, you don't want to bring it up?

[Ben]

And she goes, well, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Gina]

Oh, come on, Jen. You don't know.

[Ben]

So the producer asked Tamara what she knows, and she's like.

[Ronnie]

Is there. Is there any question. Is there any difference between going to someone who's on radio Andy and saying, I heard something and like, maybe you can put it on your show, versus going to a producer and saying, I heard something, maybe you can put it on our show? I don't think there is a big difference.

[Ben]

I guess our argument would be that they. You. They will fight for themselves and use themselves as, you know, their weapons, but when you go use the media as your weapon, that is. Is super, super low.

[Ronnie]

Fair. So Jen's like, I don't have any.

[Heather]

Clue what you're talking about. But to be fair, I also rarely have any clue about what anyone's talking about. Deny, deny, deny. Dena, Dena, Dena. What is this allegation that you're pulling out of your rabbit hat?

[Ronnie]

Just.

[Heather]

Well, there are some rumors that there was another guy at a yoga studio that she got involved with.

[Ben]

Oh, God. Like, seriously. Okay, then who is it? Where is it? Who told you? Tamara. But of course she's not. It's just a rumor. It could be wrong. She can't get in trouble for it. And Jen's like, I don't even know who you are. She's.

[Gina]

Oh, yeah, but I don't care if you know who I am. Doesn't matter to me. Okay, like, if you're gonna keep poking at me, then, yeah, I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you.

[Heather]

There she is. She's back. There she is.

[Ben]

She goes, oh, and now I'm obsessed with you. Like, what am I, single white female? I mean, do you tell people I'm obsessed with you?

[Gina]

And she goes, oh, well, that was weird shit back in the day, like putting my old hair extensions, but in your head. What about that?

[Heather]

How do you know about that? Yes. What's weird is how you twist because you want to make other people look so beneath you. Haha. You're the one who's trying to make someone lower now, and it's mind blowing.

[Ronnie]

So Jen explains that, yes, she put Tamara's hair in her head, but for like, a second, because she. She was playing and she didn't leave the salon with it. She just was like, there, and, like, someone was like, hey, that's Tamara Judge's hair. So she put it in as a gag and had fun with it. So it's hilarious how Tamara does twist it to make her seem like a lunatic when it actually was a benign joke.

[Ben]

Like, Tamara, I don't know if you've ever seen your hair, but nobody's clamoring to get it put on their head.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, okay. This is like.

[Ben]

Christ. Unless it's like a scarecrow trying to scare off some crows, girl, nobody is looking for that on purpose.

[Ronnie]

This is like when Ashley put on Karen Huger's wig, you know, like. Like, and started walking around.

[Ben]

They'd have to distress the. They'd have to distress the fake hair to even look correct on your head. No one can reuse that.

[Heather]

You know, if I die in the middle of the night of stab wounds, it's her. She's gonna stand over my bed and stab. It's gonna happen one day, I swear to God.

[Ronnie]

So Jen's like.

[Heather]

They said Tamara was. Was in the chair next to you, and she just came in and we were all laughing.

[Ronnie]

She just tells. She explains it all, and she's like.

[Heather]

But you want to twist it. Like, I sewed your hair in my head, like it gave me some sort of joy. She goes, yeah, but you go to my doctor and get your face redone. You go to my gym because you saw I did a fitness competition.

[Ronnie]

Tamara, you literally advertised. You did the fitness competition to advertise your gym, and now you're mad that people actually came in from your marketing.

[Ben]

That's such a good point. And Jen's like, your gym was one mile from my yoga studio. How dare you? How dare you put yourself on that much of a pedestal and say, I came looking for you?

[Gina]

You did. You did come looking for me. He did.

[Ben]

She goes, oh, you're so special.

[Gina]

You're so sick.

[Ben]

How's your therapy? Listen, I didn't come to your gym. I didn't know about you. You are sick. Samra. Tamara. And I'll say it again.

[Gina]

She goes, don't call me sick. You can't call me. Call me sick. I got stuff.

[Heather]

You're fucking sick.

[Gina]

You can't use my. My sickness against me. How can you. She's using my mental disabilities against me. She's calling me autopistic. I can't.

[Heather]

That's unfortunate. I wish you all the luck in the world, but that's not cool.

[Gina]

127 toothpicks. 170 toilets of 27 toothpicks.

[Heather]

Tamara, step one is admitting you have a problem. Step two is actually fixing it. So Tamara's like, you know what? The old Tamara would have laid into her. But you know what? What she thinks about me is hair problems. So she can off. I don't want anything to do with her. I don't want to see. I don't. I just don't see where Jen and I can move on.

[Ronnie]

I like how she's like, the old Tamra would have laid into her. I'm like, was. Was that not what we just did?

[Ben]

Here's what the old Tamara would have done. She would have laid into her, denied everything, and then. Then when she couldn't win the argument, run away like a little wuss like you just did. You're the same old camera girl. You're the same one. So meanwhile, Jen sees a therapy dog. She goes, oh, my gosh, is that a therapy dog? Can I hug it? Oh, my God. Get over here, therapy dog. Get over here. She's just hugging the dog.

[Ronnie]

She's hugging the Tamara storming out. Jen, like the. The definition of villain edit versus hero edit is like Tamra storming off, Jen cuddling up a random adorable dog. And the dog starts chewing on her hair. And she goes, well, at least it's.

[Heather]

Not hammer Tamara's hair.

[Ben]

I mean, you keep chewing on this hair, it's going to look like Tamara's. Tamara's clip ins again. So save me the argument, dog. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for eating my hair.

[Ronnie]

So next week, the New Orleans trip happens and we're going to see what this show is all about. But wow, like, it's. It's really astounding to see that Jen so composed and so, so, so easily dismantling Tamara. It's shocking. I didn't know she would be the one.

[Ben]

It was lovely. Loved every second of it. So, yeah, we're one step closer to Tamara being like, ah, quit.

[Gina]

You never see me.

[Ben]

Loved it. All right, everybody, thanks so much for being with us this weekend. We'll be back Monday night or Monday afternoon, 4pm Pacific Time for Amazon Live and then with, you know, another zillion recaps. We'll talk to you next time. We love you guys. Have a great weekend.

[Ronnie]

Bye. Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King. It's always a party on Alison Block.

[Ben]

Our way is the Amber way.

[Ronnie]

It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster.

[Ben]

She can run my country. It's Angie McGovern.

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[Ben]

Betches and our super premium sponsors She's VVIP It's Amanda V Can't lose when you're with Amy Baldwin somebody get us.

[Heather]

10Cc'S of Betsy MD we're taking the.

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Gold with Brenda Silva let's get real.

[Ben]

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[Ronnie]

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[Ben]

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[Ronnie]

It's Rebecca Cloud, she's the queen bee. It's Sarah Lemke.

[Ben]

We cannot tell a lie.

[Ronnie]

It's Sarah Tell of son Shannon out of a cannon. Anthony, please don't stop. It's solely and pop. Let's take off with Tamla playing.

[Ben]

It's always a good time when you're wasting time with Bravo. She ain't no shrinking violet.

[Ronnie]

Coutar.

[Ben]

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