#2957 The Valley S2E17 Part 1: Jaximum Impact

Summary

Podcast Summary: Watch What Crappens - Episode #2957 "The Valley S2E17 Part 1: Jaximum Impact"

Release Date: August 6, 2025

In this episode of "Watch What Crappens", hosts Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam delve into the tumultuous events of "The Valley Season 2 Episode 17: Jaximum Impact." Accompanied by guest Kristen Doute, the trio provides a candid and often critical analysis of the controversial character Jax, his relationships, and the broader dynamics within the show. Below is a detailed breakdown of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode.

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1. Introduction and Overview

The episode kicks off with the hosts briefly mentioning their ongoing projects and upcoming events, such as reunion recaps and live sessions. They set the stage for an in-depth discussion of the recent reunion episode, focusing primarily on Jax's behavior and the ensuing drama.

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2. Jax's Sobriety and Credibility

One of the central topics is Jax's claim of sobriety. Kristen Doute expresses skepticism about his assertions, highlighting inconsistencies in his behavior.

• Ronnie Karam ([05:13]):

  "Jax is not sober. I don't care what anybody says."

• Ben Mandelker ([07:35]):

  "He forgot five minutes ago."

Kristen further critiques Jax's accountability measures, questioning the effectiveness and sincerity of his support systems.

• Kristen Doute ([09:18]):

  "Jax is three years old. And by the way, speaking of double A's, I asked for double as. You got me quadruple D's."

---

3. Accusations of Cheating and Emotional Manipulation

The hosts delve into cheating allegations against both Jax and other characters, dissecting the validity and motivations behind these accusations.

• Ronnie Karam ([10:56]):

  "But he's, he's nailing her to a cross for a kiss."

• Ben Mandelker ([48:14]):

  "You were in a relationship with a narcissist who's constantly degrading you... his dead-eyed terrifying personality is not cute."

Kristen defends herself against Jax's accusations, emphasizing her role as a mother and her struggles with Jax's behavior.

• Kristen Doute ([39:39]):

  "I was going to find him in the bathroom somewhere."

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4. Jax's Manipulative Behavior and Control Issues

Jax's attempts to shift blame onto others, particularly Kristen, are heavily scrutinized. The hosts argue that Jax uses his alleged mental health issues as a facade to justify his actions.

• Ben Mandelker ([38:29]):

  "He's putting all of his behavior under the umbrella of illness of some kind. Like, I'm sick. I can't fix it."

• Ronnie Karam ([42:53]):

  "He's like, yeah, you know, it's such a bad look."

Kristen highlights the challenges of dealing with Jax's manipulative tactics, especially in front of their child.

• Kristen Doute ([42:16]):

  "You don't even understand. You don't know what lonely is, okay? You don't know what it feels like."

---

5. Michelle's Cheating Allegations and Group Dynamics

The discussion shifts to Michelle's alleged infidelity, with Jesse Lolly confronting her about kissing another man. The hosts debate the seriousness of her actions and Jesse's response.

• Ronnie Karam ([55:35]):

  "Are you guys cool? Are you guys upset that Hooters is going out of business?"

• Ben Mandelker ([50:32]):

  "I don't care if he's charming... his dead eyed terrifying personality is not cute."

Kristen defends Michelle's actions to an extent, suggesting that emotional affairs are complex and not always black-and-white.

• Ronnie Karam ([48:14]):

  "I'm fully in favor of Michelle having a liberating cheating moment."

---

6. Critique of Show's Portrayal of Characters

The hosts express frustration with how characters are depicted on-screen versus real-life personalities, emphasizing perceived hypocrisy and selective accountability.

• Ben Mandelker ([53:00]):

  "Who is he? And every time I [see Kristen], I lose my place on the page."

• Ronnie Karam ([59:54]):

  "The Stonehenge. That is your mouth."

---

7. Mental Health Stigma and Accountability

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around mental health stigma, especially concerning Jax's bipolar diagnosis and drug abuse.

• Ronnie Karam ([33:05]):

  "He already was bipolar. And he's acting like he went... he got this diagnosis..."

• Ben Mandelker ([34:16]):

  "You constantly say that I've ruined your life, and you blame me..."

Kristen emphasizes the importance of genuine accountability over performative gestures in addressing mental health and personal issues.

• Kristen Doute ([40:25]):

  "I'm like, sorry, but I just don't trust him. Too dangerous."

---

8. Conclusion and Preview

As the episode wraps up, the hosts tease the continuation of the discussion in Part 2, promising further analysis and insights into the ongoing drama within "The Valley."

• Ronnie Karam ([63:08]):

  "Hey everyone, this is the end of part one of this recap for part two. Catch you on the second half."

---

Key Takeaways

• Jax's Credibility: The hosts consistently question Jax's claims of sobriety and highlight his manipulative behaviors.

• Cheating Allegations: Both Jax and Michelle face accusations of infidelity, leading to heated debates about the nature and impact of their actions.

• Mental Health: The conversation underscores the stigma surrounding mental health issues, particularly how they are leveraged or misrepresented in reality TV.

• Group Dynamics: The hosts shed light on the complex relationships and tensions among the characters, emphasizing themes of trust, accountability, and personal responsibility.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ronnie Karam ([05:13]): "Jax is not sober. I don't care what anybody says."

• Kristen Doute ([09:18]): "Jax is three years old. And by the way, speaking of double A's, I asked for double as. You got me quadruple D's."

• Ben Mandelker ([38:29]): "He's putting all of his behavior under the umbrella of illness of some kind. Like, I'm sick. I can't fix it."

• Kristen Doute ([42:16]): "You don't even understand. You don't know what lonely is, okay? You don't know what it feels like."

• Ben Mandelker ([53:00]): "Who is he? And every time I [see Kristen], I lose my place on the page."

---

Final Thoughts:

"Watch What Crappens" offers a no-holds-barred analysis of reality TV drama, with this episode providing a deep dive into the controversies surrounding Jax and Michelle in "The Valley." The hosts balance humor with critical insights, making it a must-listen for fans seeking a behind-the-scenes perspective on their favorite reality shows.

Transcript

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Karam]

Hi. How's it going?

[Ben Mandelker]

Sa God, everybody, welcome to the show. It's the Valley reunion part. Today we do these on video. You can find those on Crappins on Demand on our Patreon. Also, that's where you get our bonus episodes, which we'll be record, I don't know, today, tomorrow, who knows, but it's coming. We also did a Dwell hello this week, which is a House Hunters recap of the Cougar episode that just aired. Everybody's talking about it, so you can find that on Wonder Plus. And we do Amazon Lives every other week. We'll do that one August 18th at 4pm Pacific time. And also we've got Crappy Hour coming up Monday, which is on our YouTube channel that's at 4, 5:30pm Pacific time. So a lot going on. Check our socials. You know what Lincoln bio on the Instagram. Look at the Lincoln bio. What's going on with you today, Ben?

[Ronnie Karam]

Not much. Just really enjoyed that Valley reunion last night. Still really going strong. That's basically it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Stories of a narcissist over and over like music to my ears. I'm sorry, okay? I'm sorry, okay? I'm sorry, okay? I wish someone would just do a super cut of Jacks at reunions for, what, what, 12 years now? Just, well, not 12 because he got fired from Vanderpump Rules. But, you know, just. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Over and over and still does the same shit. Ben.

[Ronnie Karam]

Just pretending, just pretending to, like, own Things. He's like, yeah, no, I do this. I do this.

[Kristen Doute]

Yeah, it's my bad.

[Ronnie Karam]

I know I need help. I'm. I am. I'm a work in progress. I need to. I don't know why I do these things. I gotta do them. And he says that every single, Every single reunion in a very matter of fact, sort of faux accountable way. It's almost believable. Maybe in the beginning we did believe it, but, yeah, same old story from that guy.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, fuck that guy. So here we are with the Valley Reunion Part two. So we open with Andy's. We're back with the Valley Reunion. Oh, by the way, I'm still wearing sunglasses because today I had to get another surgery on my little eye to take out a gigantic bowling ball sized die. Not to be dramatic, but it was dramatic. Now I look like I've really had the shit kicked out of me. So thanks a lot, doctor. Actually, he did a great job. But I hope he did a great job. Who knows? Maybe I have a boob on my eye. I don't know. But that's why. So anyway, sorry for the douche glasses. Okay, we're back with the Valley Reunion. I'm adding Cohen. Jax, I'm exhausted. Also, you've been sober for how long? Jax is not sober. I don't care what anybody says. And I know you're not supposed to say that because the magic words are once somebody says you're sober on Bravo, then everybody's supposed to believe it and go with it. Jax ain't sober. I don't believe that for two seconds. But okay, I'll go along with you because we've got a long road to hoe.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, well, that's, that's, that's also how you would describe Jax's reality TV career. So more.

[Ben Mandelker]

That is a, that is a dead end hoed road. That, that, that road has been over hoed, Ben.

[Ronnie Karam]

The hoe. The hoe. Well, listen, one thing about a hoe is that it's always, it's always there, ready to go. You know, weeds keep growing, hoes keep hoeing. So Brittany is like, yeah, hello, I've.

[Kristen Doute]

Got local pack of 100 drug tests and I've given them to him sporadically.

[Ronnie Karam]

This is what she said last time. And the Jack's like, twice. Twice. He says it like accusatory, as if, like, I don't know what point he's trying to make. Like, no, she doesn't test me enough. So she. And she's like, yeah, he passes and everything.

[Kristen Doute]

He's like, keep testing me. I want you to test me. I mean, hold me accountable, because in my head, if I ever try to slip again, I know that you're gonna test me anytime you want. And I want you to test me because, like, not only for you, but for me, because I don't want to do drugs, alcohols again. It liked up my life. It up my life.

[Ben Mandelker]

Really? Because five minutes ago, you said drug and alcohol. Drugs and alcohol weren't your problem. It was just anger. So I do not believe you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, that's. That's how much it up his life is that it fooled him into thinking it wasn't his wanted problem.

[Ben Mandelker]

He forgot five minutes ago.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, he forgot.

[Ben Mandelker]

By the way, congratulations on your 156 days of false sobriety. 156 days of sobriety. No, you lie. Lie. So, yeah, I think he's insinuating it's kind of Britney's fault because she doesn't test him enough to keep him accountable. And the name of the game is everyone else needs to keep Jax accountable. Except unless it's by telling him stuff he did wrong. He doesn't like that. So, Jax, besides the therapy that you're into, do you have any kind of support for your sobriety? And he's like, yeah, you know, I have a sobriety coach. I have a life coach I really like. I'm, you know, I'm doing aa. I'm doing the aa.

[Ronnie Karam]

The aa.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, one more that they'll change my tire for free, which is great. No one told me about that. Thanks, Britney. But, you know, I didn't want to go. You know, I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you here, because I'm Jacks. I don't lie. Right? But, you know, I did not want to go to that. I did not want to go to the aa, But I did. I did.

[Kristen Doute]

Hold on, let me cry. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm just so grateful that he's doing this. And of course, when he says he's going, I. He just.

[Ronnie Karam]

He just means buy me some batteries, you know?

[Kristen Doute]

But I'm so grateful for that. Nobody wants him to clean. Be clean more than me, you know, for her son. And because I have to deal with him for the rest of my life.

[Ronnie Karam]

He'S like, well, here's the thing. All that matters is our little boy, whatever his name is. And I want to be a good father. That's it. I just. I want to be there for you no matter what. You can Call me anytime you can tell me. And when our son is finally born, I cannot wait to hold him in my arms.

[Kristen Doute]

Jac is three years old. And by the way, speaking of double A's, I asked for double as. You got me quadruple D's.

[Ronnie Karam]

Listen, I got. I got, you know, I've got my. I got so many coaches right now. I've got double D coaches. I got a coach bag. I got a coach ticket. I've got reruns of that show. Coach Love that.

[Ben Mandelker]

He just keeps buying her everything bigger than she wanted.

[Kristen Doute]

J, that is. That is does not fit in the carry on section.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, you know, he does the whole, oh, I'll just do it all for my son. Give me a fucking break. You're moving you. I can't list the shit Jax has done wrong to his son again, but nobody believes you. And also, you moved into a four story condo with a fucking tiny child with his bedroom probably on the fourth floor.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay, yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So he's like, yeah, my son, I do it all for the boys.

[Kristen Doute]

I'm like, well, you know, I don't trust you because you say things and then you fight with me every day, and then you try and flip it.

[Ben Mandelker]

And act like I was the one that did something wrong. And he's like, you're right. You're right. You know what? You're right. I start these fights because, you know, there's days where I'm like, you know, we should get divorced, you know, so we're toxic. So that's why I start fights, you know? But then there's days where we're like, we'll get along. And I'm like, I could still fuck her. Like, there was no one at the amp of this morning, so. And then I'll text her, you know, so it's my fault. It's my fault. But you know what? I do it for my son, you.

[Kristen Doute]

Know, that is all me. Okay? You know? You know what? That messes with my mind.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm confused.

[Kristen Doute]

What can I do?

[Ronnie Karam]

I know we're not good together. I know that. But still fucking hard. I'm a human being. I had 10 years with this woman. Okay? It's not fun to cheat when you don't have no one to cheat on, you know?

[Kristen Doute]

So Brittany's like, well, you're just saying this, okay, because somebody's got to cheat on.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm just kind of a guy who fucks a lot of random people, you know? I mean, there's no title in that.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Kristen Doute]

You know, like, what happens to the cows who can't come home to dinner. What if the dinner divorces them?

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay?

[Kristen Doute]

It's like, hard, man. It's like. Well, you're just saying this because simultaneously, I'm getting da. That's direct messages, by the way, from these girls that they say that you're love bombing. Okay, you're telling these girls that you want to take a bath with their love. Is that what love bombing is? I don't know. But you know what? They. You say that you want them to move in with you. How could you do that?

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, my God. And Zach is sitting over there making his, like, looks when Jax is like, I've been there. I've been here 10 years with this woman. He goes, that you threw away. That you threw away. You threw it away. So he's like, you know, I don't know how to handle this. What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to handle it? How am I supposed to.

[Kristen Doute]

And she's like, yeah, you trying to hurt me with all these girls, and, you know, I don't deserve to have to read this stuff. It hurts me. It hurts me, Jen.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, call Zuckerberg. You know, no one's making you read every DM you get. But still. Anti. Anti Jax. But still, she's like, I should have to read DMs. Well, now. Now we're just mad at the Internet.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, let's hear from. Let's hear from Jason, who we will later find out, was so massively disgusted by what Danny did. So clearly he will hold Jax the same standard.

[Kristen Doute]

Well, I will say, though, that the.

[Ronnie Karam]

Fact that Jax has been abusing cocaine for, like, 20 years, it's going to take a while for the depression things to stabilize. So, Brittany, I think you should just sort of suck it up and, you know, be a good wife to him.

[Kristen Doute]

Well, you know, he's a dry drunk. Okay, guess what? He's dry drunk, okay? He is like that type of shampoo that's powder. He's like that. I just don't like this personality. I mean, the therapist literally said to us that we could treat depression, we could treat bipolar, but we could never treat narcissism.

[Ronnie Karam]

And he's like, oh, well, Jax, Brittany says that you've said you. You have said over the years that, you know, you know, I gave you all this. This is all because of me. Chances are like, she would be living.

[Kristen Doute]

In Kentucky, married, like a local doctor. Jax. What do you say about that?

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm sorry, I can't. I can't go on I need to stop for a minute. Jason. Fuck off. Like, seriously. Jason, with his. Oh, yeah, Jax. Poor Jax. He's been accusing abusing cocaine for, like, 20 plus years. I mean, what, did the guy take a secret shot in a closet on a trip? No. Why are we excoriating the poor guy?

[Kristen Doute]

Poor, poor cocaine addict Jax. Can we just give Jax a break?

[Ben Mandelker]

Dockers, go fuck yourself. I cannot believe anybody has ever liked this fucking guy. You, Jason. Okay? So thank you. So Andy's like, yeah, so you think she'd be married to, like, a doctor? And Jax is like, probably a basketball player. And Jax is like, yeah, I don't. You know, I was never her type ever. I don't. I was never her type. I don't even know why I dated her. And I think Jax is saying that she only dates Blake black guys when it's not Jax. Which, of course, you know, leave it to Jax to, you know, bring bring a tinge of racism into everything at the reunion because he's not in. And Brittany's like, I was with you for 10 years.

[Kristen Doute]

I don't know what you're talking about. Like, everyone knows that I loved you.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he's like, the DMs I was getting from her friends back in Kentucky. I mean, let me tell you. You want to talk about DMs? What about the DMs I got for people in Kentucky?

[Kristen Doute]

JX, I was with you for 10 years.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, well, it was just hurtful to hear. It was hurtful. It was so hurtful. You know what's also hurtful? When your husband sends you rage texts incessantly and then acts like he wants to get back together with you. And then when you fall for it, he sends you more rage texts. I think that's a little bit more hurtful than.

[Ben Mandelker]

She rains you and abuses you and throws furniture at you and punches holes in the wall while your kids is. While your kid's around and turn your. Turns your knees black and goes in. Stops paying the mortgage after kicking her out of the house with their autistic son. Please. You heard about the fucking Kentucky DMs. A. I'm impressed that Britney's friends in Kentucky can use a DM because I saw her spin off. So cheers to them. I never thought you had it in you. Am I assuming this is all voice to text second? Shut up, Jax.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Jax is like.

[Kristen Doute]

Andy's like, what did those. What did the people in Kentucky say? Were there any dick pics?

[Ronnie Karam]

Would you like to show me? Well, I Mean, they just were saying that she would never date somebody like that. Like, that she wanted to be on reality tv. And, like, I'm not even his type. So he. What he's really saying is, yeah, she used him.

[Kristen Doute]

She's like, jx, okay? Because it's your fans in the comments, okay? You're. Listen, it doesn't count when you DM yourself on your Frank Drebin username, okay? And in your DMs, and guess what? We proved that it wasn't even that girl that worked at Hooters, okay? Because. So why you bring that up whenever you know it's a lie?

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

Because I'm.

[Kristen Doute]

Yes. He's trying here to make me look a certain way, and that's not true, James. I'm not trying to make you look a certain way. I just want to say the truth, Jax.

[Ronnie Karam]

And he's like, okay, so wait, let.

[Ben Mandelker]

Me get this straight. So Jax went into his DMs and got a girl who was cosplaying as a Hooters girl who worked with Britney and said she's just some slut that's using Jacks. Okay, okay. So you're. First of all, I love that. Who is that? Is she in the audience? Please DM us, because that's amazing. I love that someone just cosplayed that. I worked with Brittany, and let me tell you, she's been using you this whole time. She told me at the Ranch Station at the Hooters, watch out, Beware. You got to beware DM from. From a fake Hooters girl. I mean, you can't make this shit up.

[Ronnie Karam]

She would have left Jax a long time ago if she was using Jax, like, as soon as she saw a good opportunity to leave. Opportunity to leave, which would have been season six after he cheated on her. One of the times she would have left then if she was using him. I'm pretty sure she was not using Jax.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm pretty sure that there was probably. Well, I'm not pretty sure. I'm just saying I'm pretty sure because you did. But I'm pretty sure.

[Ronnie Karam]

You're saying I'm pretty sure because. I said I'm pretty sure.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm sure of nothing, really. But I think that probably she was using him a bit. I mean, look, you go, you meet this loser in Vegas, and you don't move to LA because of Jax, because he's Jax. All he had going for him was that he was on TV show that again. Then again, is that really using somebody? I mean, when you're dating somebody, you look at all their positives and their negatives. One of the positives was he was on tv, and she wanted to be on tv, so why not? Why is that worse than, like, he had a good job as a. You know. I was gonna say lawyer, but that's really pushing it in this example. Like, you know, very. I don't know, very high up in the world, you know, garbage man. And, you know, you think that that's a good living for you and that can support you. What's the difference? Like, so what? She met this guy. All he had to offer was being on tv. No one's fucking Jax for any other reason.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I. That's. That's what I would have to say. I think it's okay. I think it's okay to meet someone who's on TV and be, like, starstruck and start to, like. And they're handsome, and you see a fantasy where you think, like, oh, my God, like, I might date this guy who's on tv, and maybe I'll even be on tv. And I don't think that's, like. I guess technically that could be considered using someone, but I think it's okay to sort of have like, a fairy tale moment and. And unfortunately, don't realize that you are latching yourself onto, like, the monst in the swamp and not Prince Charming. But, hey, you know, not all fairy tales can be good.

[Ben Mandelker]

But if you guys aren't allowed to each other to be on tv, we wouldn't have half of the Vanderpump Rules universe. I mean, that's how most of these people got cast. You know, we can go down the list, James. Jenna is the newer one. Well, she's trying. Jenna's trying. Janet didn't anybody. You know, she cosplayed as a Sheena friend for years to do it. I mean, don't forget that Stassi.

[Ronnie Karam]

Stassi was, like, on the Amazing Race long before Vanderpump Rules ever came around. Everyone is a whore for tv. I'm a whore for tv.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sheena literally started Vanderpump Rules. She had the first scene in Vanderpump Rules because she was sleeping with somebody's husband. Some famous person's husband, you know, or. No, some person's famous husband.

[Ronnie Karam]

I guess I should say Lisa Vanderpump. I mean, she was in a music video for Poison Arrow.

[Kristen Doute]

Shoot that poison arrow in my heart.

[Ronnie Karam]

Remember? So everyone whores themselves out to become famous. Everyone does it. What's the point? We're Trying to make. By the way, the point was that.

[Ben Mandelker]

People sleep with each other to get on vanderpump rules and just spin offs all the time. So you know somebody for going to an audition. I mean, what kind of. What kind of LA people are these?

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, Jax is saying that you start to get in your head about things because he, God forbid this snowflake gets a DM from a random person in Kentucky and his world falls apart. Meanwhile, he's complaining about people getting it. Like how you get into your head sometimes. You know it'll also get you in your head when your own husband tells you you're fat and worthless and stupid and then cheats on you. That'll get into your head too. I think that's probably a situation he may want to look into.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Brittany's like something no one is ever going to accuse Jax of is something getting into his head?

[Ronnie Karam]

And there's so much room. That's the pity. I mean, getting so many ways in, so many wide passages in now there's.

[Ben Mandelker]

So much room in there and just yet nothing has traveled.

[Ronnie Karam]

He really did the. He basically did. You know how like Boston has the big dig where they just built a giant tunnel, like under the city. That's what he did with his nose. So like everything can get into that brain, but for some reason it's just. It won't go in. It's like getting a cat to play with a scratching post. You know, it's just the cat wants the couch.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's exit only. It's like an unmarried butthole. Exit only. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Nick Cannon]

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[Ronnie Karam]

So Jax is saying, yeah, you get into your heads and Brittany's like, what?

[Kristen Doute]

You were the one who came up to me at the bar. I did not chase you in Vegas, okay? I did not DM you. I did nothing. You came up to me.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, this is me, by the way, Ben, because for years the rumors are that Britney heard that Jackson the gang were going to be in Vegas and her mom was like, you better get to Vegas and get you on tv. And then Brits went. Brit went up and then started flirting with Jax and did all this to like, you know, worm her way onto tv. So this is actually fairly big news, I think, for anybody who follows, you know, like Reddit gossip, like me. Yeah, it's actually not true. I mean, she was in Vegas and Jax was the one who came up to her. So there you go. There's like, that's like the end of Lost. You know, we were all wondering the truth and now we got it.

[Ronnie Karam]

We all got it. And then Andy Cohen is like, okay, I need to bring ask a question that's gonna bring everyone together.

[Kristen Doute]

Are you guys cool? Are you guys upset that Hooters is.

[Ronnie Karam]

Going out of business? You're like, especially Jax. Everyone. But especially Jackson. Bernie slightly like, yeah, yes. And Jackson's like, yes, of course. It's like saying like, isn't it terrible that there was an assassination somewhere? Well, of course no one likes assassinations, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, everybody's all upset. And Jax is like, well, you know, they're not going out of business. They're just restructuring. And Brittany goes.

[Kristen Doute]

I wish I could buy one. Honestly, I wish I could.

[Ben Mandelker]

Brittany, I think you've invested in enough dead end streets. You know, leave it up to Britney to, like, want to throw her entire life into something that's failing. Like, have we learned nothing? Look outside your window, Brittany. It's an anti van. Get in. I've got a fly swatter in my hand and I'm ready to teach. Come on, sweat you on your little butt until you start learning some lessons. Hooters. Come on, Brittany.

[Ronnie Karam]

Let her have her pop up moment. Hooters by Brittany. The Hooters experience by Brittany.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think she's gonna be like, you know, fives of people in fabrics. No, Joanne, wait a second.

[Ronnie Karam]

Now, wait a second, Ronnie, now let's. Okay, let's not. Let's.

[Ben Mandelker]

I told you Joanne would know.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm just telling you, like, why. Why do you have to bring it there? Why do you have to, like, why do you have to mention that? Like, we're having fun. We're punching down on Brittany and Jax, maybe even some Hooters and you. And then you're going to, like, just add Joanne Fabrics into the mix. Like, we're. Some of us are still mourning. Okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

This is fresh because Joanne Fabrics has been dying for like 20 years. They've been having going out of business sales for 20 years in that store. And still it's like, Britney would pass that and think, wow, that's a good. There's a good next chapter for me.

[Ronnie Karam]

Brittany. Brittany. So this whole thing is so messy. I would not be surprised if she has some midlife crisis, cuts her hair short, and then goes on some spiritual quest to find Joanne.

[Kristen Doute]

She's like, I've had enough. She might be going out of business, but she's not going out of my life. Where's Joanne? I'm gonna find her, damn it. I'm going to find Joanne. Joanne's been to paradise. But if she ever been to me, well, I got to ban again. And I was like, well, I found ban again. So I thought that was good enough.

[Ronnie Karam]

So I stopped trying to look for Joanne.

[Kristen Doute]

I'm happy now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Britney has made so many bad decisions over the past decade. I hope her midlife crisis is just making a good decision for once, you know, because usually it's the other way around. It's like you finally start getting sloppy at your midlife crisis. I hope Brittany's like, you know what? I'm going to school and I'm Going to a relationship coast coach.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. I would like her to do some sort of continuing education and a style. It's like a stylist would actually be.

[Kristen Doute]

Even more impressive for my midlife.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think she needs to, like, sit.

[Ben Mandelker]

Down, enroll in community college. What'd you say?

[Ronnie Karam]

She needs to sit down in front of Law roach and get some assistance.

[Ben Mandelker]

I still haven't watched that. The Project Runway. It was terrible thing with yourself. It was, you know, you said, it's terrible, but then. So my friend last night was like, oh, it's so good. You should watch it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, we are all allowed to have a difference of opinions because gays are not monolith. Neither are gays and gals. Neither is anyone. I. Yeah, well, you know what? Fine. Fine. But I didn't like it. No, I thought it was. I thought they, like, destroyed it. I mean, I'm gonna watch the whole thing because it's still, like, the core is still there. And so at core, it's still good, but they made it so stupid.

[Ben Mandelker]

They just destroyed all the parts.

[Ronnie Karam]

Nina is still there.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, they just.

[Ronnie Karam]

They just tried to. They just tried to be really funny and really reality showy. And they, like, the first challenge was like, in the lobby of a building, and it just. They took away, like, all the cool elements. Just. It's very much like a Food Network show now. It's, like, very disappointing.

[Ben Mandelker]

They didn't take away Nina. That's all I really need. You know, I love your buttons. I love your seams. I love your shoulder pads. She.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, they also, like, don't show the eliminations anymore. You have to wait a week, which I think is really so stupid annoying. And then their big thing. They're like, because it's now on free form, they now have the judges sitting on the other side of the Runway. Guys, it's a whole new Project Runway. They changed up everything. They refreshed it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Free form.

[Ronnie Karam]

No, I don't like the changes. They made it. The changes were really. Are really bad. I think they're, like, really, really bad. I was watching it like, what the hell? Why'd they do this to the show? It was so unnecessary.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, that sucks, but I'll still try. I'll still try it. Except I saw that it was a two episode premiere and I already got tired. I was gonna watch it last night and I was like, I'm exhausted. I'm watching Avatar instead. And then I watched Avatar and I was like, why do I. Why do I want to have a 9 foot tall, thin blue body With a tail. Now I'm turning this off. It's. It's influencing me badly. I was like, can I get that surgery? Because they're kind of hot. I love their eyes.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, so you're talking about Avatar the Blue people, not Avatar the Last Airbender?

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I haven't. No. That's very Love island, though, huh? I love it. I love Avatar the Last Airbender.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, that's right. That is very, very Nick. Very Nick and Sierra. Anyway, so Jack, so Andy's like, jesse.

[Kristen Doute]

You live with Jax a long time.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ago when you were both modeling.

[Kristen Doute]

Was he doing drugs back then? This is a trick question.

[Ronnie Karam]

Of course he was. It's part of being a model, isn't it? And Jesse's like, oh, for sure. And Jesse's like, how do you think I got this hair done, Jack? Sniffed off. Snorted all my hair off in the middle of my head. So now I just have this dent here.

[Kristen Doute]

Okay, cool. So is that when you started Jax, when you remind when you were modeling?

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, yeah, I think it was when I was in Miami, probably like, 01 or so. And Janet's like, I was in seventh grade. Zach is like, I was 14.

[Ben Mandelker]

This is the part of the episode where I just started getting mad because everyone on the show is such a fucking hypocrite. Like, is Jax a mess? Yes. Jesse, you weren't doing drugs as a model with Jax. I'm so sure, Janet, all of you. All of you are fucking cokeheads. Brittany and Jasmine, during that. That dinner in Santa Barbara or wherever they are, were totally coked out of their mind. I mean, they all are all the time. So this is the part where it's like, I guess Jax has been caught. So we get to talk about his. But I'm impressed that Jax didn't out everybody on this show because I feel like at least 90% of these people are cokeheads. The only ones, really, I'm excluding are Nia and her baby and Luke, because I feel like Luke wouldn't pay for that. Luke is like, I'm not paying for coke. I will snort some. I will. I will get a paper bag and some. Some spray paint. Okay? I'm the Kim Richards route here.

[Ronnie Karam]

But note that this does not exonerate Jill, who we know is the biggest dog on the show.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, Jill's a coke. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Huge cokehead.

[Kristen Doute]

All right, well, when you were. When you were on Vanderbump Rules, there was speculation from viewers, Jax, that you were on coke.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, yeah, I mean, my eyes were bulging out of my head, you know.

[Kristen Doute]

And so were you doing coke at the filming?

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, yeah, yeah, I was. And like, the most obvious question, and.

[Kristen Doute]

He'S like, when you watch yourself back, what did you think?

[Ronnie Karam]

Like, I thought, there's a handsome guy. There's a handsome guy who was duped by a woman who was just using him to get onto tv. Poor guy. Poor guy driven to drugs by this woman. And you're just so disgusted with yourself, especially because you see yourself, you're sweating because you're in love with this woman so much, you start to sweat. It's just gross. So grass. So gross and sad.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Brittany calls him out because she's.

[Kristen Doute]

Like, you may feel that now, but you've always loved yourself.

[Ben Mandelker]

Because, Jax, you have a picture of yourself raged out on coke in Andy Warhol style hanging in your home. What are you talking about? You're so disgusted seeing yourself on tv, you're literally taking the most iconic images of you coke rage and making them huge and hanging them in your home with your son. So please stop with this.

[Kristen Doute]

Like, I'm just so disgusted with myself.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Kristen's, like, number one guy in the group, right? So Andy's like, yeah, you know, it's such a bad look. And Jax at one point says something like, yeah, yeah, you know, like, production did know. Like, production didn't know. But, you know, like, I was. I was doing it production new. I mean, there's shots of you guys out of town with you hiding coke from the table.

[Ronnie Karam]

You're miked up. Yeah, they hear you.

[Ben Mandelker]

They hear you trying to exonerate production.

[Kristen Doute]

Yeah, I would go to dinner with him, and he would leave me, like, every 10 minutes alone at the table.

[Ronnie Karam]

And they're like, wow. And Jack's like, I liked it. You know, I fucking love drugs and alcohol. I fucking love doing cocaine. It's like, we know. We know.

[Kristen Doute]

All right, Brittany, Jax. What?

[Ben Mandelker]

This morning.

[Kristen Doute]

What?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, this morning.

[Kristen Doute]

Hi. So, Brittany, Jax told you from the facility that he had been diagnosed as bipolar. And you said that's not the first time he'd received that diagnosis. She's like, yeah, me and his sister begged him to go to the doctor before we even started filming the show because they told him he was bipolar, and he never even got the prescription.

[Ronnie Karam]

Filled, so he already was bipolar. And he's acting like he went. He. Like, he. He really sort of presented to America that he went to rehab to help himself, and he got this diagnosis, and now he's gonna sort of like, start putting himself together when he'd already received this diagnosis and was still not trying to do anything. And then we find out that he's not even really taking his meds.

[Ben Mandelker]

When that happened on the show, I remember being like, oh, watch Jax. He's about to use this bipolar. Let's watch how Jax uses this bipolar diagnosis to get pity or whatever. And I got in kind of trouble with a few people in the DMs.

[Kristen Doute]

Which I'm still traumatized by.

[Ben Mandelker]

I had to read the DM and basically yelling at me for being insensitive about mental health. And I'm like, no, it's not being insensitive about mental health. It's being insensitive about Jax. It's knowing that a person like this is going to use whatever they can to get out of whatever they can. And sure enough, it was bullshit. He'd been diagnosed way before. So vindication for those three people on my dms. Person who probably claims to work at Hughes.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Brittany's like, so that's what you'll do, Jax.

[Kristen Doute]

You'll start a fight with me? And the reason. Because you. Because he didn't take his bipolar medication that day. It doesn't work like that.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Zach is like, that's not how medicine works. And Brittany's like, so why did you.

[Kristen Doute]

Tell me you haven't taken your medication and that's why you're acting that way?

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, well, obviously I still have some problems to work out, and I'm still angry. You know, maybe I'm a work in progress. Should I say that now? And I just feel like I don't have control. I lose it. Because control, to me, is a very big thing. And, like, rage checking and looking at cameras, that's a form of control for me. I love. God, my favorite rom com in all the world is a sliver. I love looking at cameras. I love that control.

[Ben Mandelker]

Do you know how creepy it is that you were watching on cameras, by the way? Could you tilt that one a little more? Can I get the bathroom cameras in the dressing room to my ear feed? Thanks. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, answer. And Brittany's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Kristen Doute]

He was telling me what I was wearing. He was telling me what I was wearing.

[Ben Mandelker]

And trust me, it was.

[Kristen Doute]

It's much uglier when it's described.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know what, Jax? Go to the therapist and say, give me the tools that will help me. Every time I get to this point, give me, like, three things I can do to stab myself out of it. So, for instance, my Therapist says I can put on some patchouli oil. The second thing I can do is listen to Landslide by Stevie Nicks. And the third thing is sort of wrap my head in a pashmina. It works every time.

[Ben Mandelker]

I just. I can't get past the Britney saying Jax was calling her and telling her what she's wearing. I wonder how Jax was describing that. I wonder how accurate, like, Jax's fashion sense is. Britney, I see you right now. You're a 90% rayon halter top with cutouts that aren't quite placed properly in a color that doesn't flatter you.

[Kristen Doute]

Damn it. He's. Call me again.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Kristen is basically like, just call me. Like, call someone. Call me. Call Luke. Call someone. You know? And he's like, no, you guys hate me.

[Kristen Doute]

You guys gave me.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, well, I hate what you did to her, but I don't hate you.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Brittany's like, yeah, I hate you.

[Kristen Doute]

I do. I hate you.

[Ronnie Karam]

So Britney is like, it doesn't matter.

[Kristen Doute]

How long you guys have known each other. Me and Kristen are far closer.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Jack's like, I understand that. But Kristen, I didn't get to go to your. Your baby shower.

[Kristen Doute]

And you know how hurtful that was. I've been in your life for 20 fucking years. And I know, I know she's your friend. I didn't get to go to your baby shower.

[Ronnie Karam]

Jax suddenly cares about going to a baby shower. Look, okay, this. Of all the things that he said that have been bullshit tonight and, like, for 10 years, this has to be the biggest one. Jax pretending to cry about not getting invited to a baby shower. I don't think I know any. Anyone who's ever cried about not going to. Getting invited to a baby shower. They are wretched events.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Kristen's like, we'll start treating her better and you'll be invited place. And he goes, yeah, but you know what? Not be invited hurts because I want to be involved with you guys. You know, I miss it. I miss it, guys. So Kristen's like, well, okay, but you gotta start somewhere. Just start with that, Jax.

[Kristen Doute]

Just start with that.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they're all crying. Everybody's like, oh, my God, look at how vulnerable Jax is being this cast, you know, I have to remind myself that everybody's trash, you know, like, you like people more than others. But it's moments like this where I'm like, eh, it's just varying shades of trash. Like, watching everybody go around the room pretending they're dabbing their eyes as Jax is coming Clean. As if he doesn't do this nine times a year, you know? So Jax is like, well, but I'm a sabotager, you know? And I'm a control freak. And it's just like. Like, I'll just find a way to fuck things up. That's just how I am. It's, poor me, guys. Poor me.

[Ronnie Karam]

Janet's like, well, you don't have to keep on doing it, okay?

[Kristen Doute]

And she's, yeah, you have a son now. You have a son now.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, I do. That's amazing news. But you know what? You can't just. You can't just change overnight. I'm trying, man. I'm trying. I mean, narcissistic behavior, manipulation, control. These are issues. These are, like, deep rooted issues. And I don't know where this came from. I can't change overnight, guys. So I'm just saying I have license to keep being a monster to all of you, okay? Because I'm gonna say I'm gonna change.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, he just says he's making. He's putting all of his behavior under the umbrella of illness of some kind. Like, I'm sick. I can't fix it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I'm sick. I need help.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sorry. So, yeah, giving me props instead of, you know, tearing me down, guys.

[Kristen Doute]

You know what? You constantly say that I've ruined your life, and you blame me for having to go to rap and not being able to film and losing jobs and this and that.

[Ronnie Karam]

And Jax is like, no, it's not your fault. But I needed someone to blame. You understand that? And of course I'm gonna blame the wife, the mother of my child, the person who stood through me, stood by me when no one else would.

[Kristen Doute]

You're the best person to blame. You're like, that's.

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, that was kind of funny, right? When I blamed you, that was funny. I was laughing, laying. Were you not laughing?

[Kristen Doute]

You weren't laughing? So wait, now you see that? I did the right thing. Do you think. Do you think I did the right thing? Okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

And he's like, yeah, 100, you know, because if I didn't go to rehab, like, I would be here right now. I would not be here right now.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'd probably be at. Like, I'd be gonna be alive. I'd be alive. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

If I didn't go to rehab, I'd be drinking somewhere right now. And Brittany's like, that was my biggest thing.

[Kristen Doute]

I was gonna find him in the bathroom somewhere.

[Ben Mandelker]

Truly, honestly, in a bathroom, not necessarily Dead, but. But probably just pooping and ignoring me.

[Kristen Doute]

While I sat at the table. I was sitting at the table.

[Ben Mandelker]

Do you know how hard it is.

[Kristen Doute]

To sit alone at an Applebee's every 10 minutes? It's hard.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's horrible.

[Ronnie Karam]

You gonna buy one of those, too?

[Kristen Doute]

Anyway, in his own way, through many reunions where I've sat here and with him and confronted him for horrible behavior, he has taken more accountability today than I've heard him take. What do you think about the more.

[Ronnie Karam]

Fake accountability tonight than in other nights of fake accountability?

[Ben Mandelker]

Fan be whipping out some Congratulations. Wow, he's really doing it, guys. This is amazing. This is amazing.

[Kristen Doute]

And Brittany's like, well, you know, it's performative. And I hope it's not performative, but I hope these are. Sorry, but I just don't trust him. Too dangerous. He's going to be racetakes me and screaming at me again.

[Ronnie Karam]

I'm going.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Jack's like, I'm just so tired. I can't stay here anymore. I can't do this. Like, how many times? Like, how many times? Like, I can't sit here and say, it's just going to stop today. I mean, like, am I going to do my best? Sure. Like, yeah, for sure.

[Kristen Doute]

Can you look at her? Can you look at her?

[Ronnie Karam]

Can you seriously, can you look at her?

[Ben Mandelker]

Look at me the whole time, he.

[Kristen Doute]

Hadn'T even looked at me.

[Ben Mandelker]

The whole time.

[Kristen Doute]

He ain't even looking at me. What am I wearing? You don't even know what I'm wearing. And you know how hard it is, you know, hard is to sit by my house by myself. I can't even go to the bathroom. Bathroom. Because every time I go to the bathroom, she's like, oh, look, we found him in the bathroom. I can't go to the bathroom anymore. I'm wearing diapers in my own house, watching myself on my own cameras in my own diapers and critiquing myself. What sort of way is this to live?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. He's like, yeah, you know what? I just. I just. I just want to be there for my son, you know, it's all about my son. So, like, he's the only person in my family. Like, everyone's offering hid powder all the time. Like, he poops himself. They're offering him powder. That's fine, I guess, you know, So I want to hang out with him. That's where baby powder still, though. Still though.

[Ronnie Karam]

Do you know, I just don't feel like people understand. I'm so lonely. I'm in my home, alone. No responsibilities. Hot bitches with giant boobs coming over. Tom Schwartz next door. My best friend living right next door. Do you know how lonely that makes you?

[Kristen Doute]

Well, you don't even understand. You don't know what lonely is, okay? You don't know what it feels like.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, yeah, but you get to be around your friends. I only get to be around many of my friends. And I don't know, it's just. It's hard.

[Ben Mandelker]

And she's like, well, I'm the one who's home alone with our child every night.

[Kristen Doute]

And there is a difference, okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

Me and you are different. And he's like, yeah, but I would just want to be with my son like I want to. And she's like, you don't even know.

[Kristen Doute]

What lovely feels like, J.

[Ben Mandelker]

And so Andy's saying, yeah, you know what? Like, you're to. Your control. Oh, sorry. He's like, it's in your control, Jax. I mean, what you're saying is control is a huge issue, but if you want control, you have control. Because the more you take control of your actions, the more your life with everybody around you is going to get better. Can't be going to come at Jax for physically abusing his wife a little bit. I really don't need your shitty Instagram advice on this. On this section.

[Kristen Doute]

You know what, Jax? When I was 17, I did what people told me.

[Ronnie Karam]

I did what my father said.

[Kristen Doute]

I let my mother mold me. But that was a long time ago. I'm in control. Control anyone? Anyone? No commercials.

[Ronnie Karam]

Here comes one right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, so Britain's like, yeah, you got.

[Kristen Doute]

A lot of yes men in your life.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Jax, oh, so now's the big question, Jax, are you still in love with Britney D? Let's go to a commercial for some depression pills. I love. I love when Bravo's really going off the rails and they're like, are you depressed? Yes, I'm fucking depressed. I'm watching the Valley.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, Andy, that's a really tough question to answer right now. Wait, hold on. Let me just. Hold on. I brought an onion here right for this moment. Let me just hold it up to my eyes. Oh, it's a lot to talk about right now. I'm crying. I'm crying, America.

[Kristen Doute]

He's like, okay, well, if you still love her.

[Ben Mandelker]

What?

[Kristen Doute]

You heard her. Come on.

[Ronnie Karam]

Just.

[Kristen Doute]

Just move on, Andy. I don't want to. I just want to move on from that one. It's too much.

[Ben Mandelker]

Be vulnerable. Be vulnerable, Jax.

[Kristen Doute]

Just be vulner. Okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

Why can't you just be vulnerable?

[Kristen Doute]

Okay?

[Ronnie Karam]

You're still in love with her.

[Ben Mandelker]

Just say it. Just say it.

[Kristen Doute]

Are you still in love with Jax? I mean, I said a million times, leaving somebody that you actually love is much harder than leaving somebody that when you're done. And I was forced to leave the person I thought I was gonna play with for the rest of my life. And it really is hard to leave. You know, it's like the last time I walked out of that Hooters and I never knew if I would see again because of corporate bankruptcy and such. It was real hard to leave when. I love that restaurant.

[Ben Mandelker]

So we talk about their son Cruz and his autism diagnosis. And she says that when he was, you know, first born and like, the first year of his life, he was doing great. He was talking, he was, you know, showing great progress. And then it kind of stopped, basically. So she immediately went, took him to the doctor and got the diagnosis. And she basically talks about going through that with her son and all that. And she's like, and then I was.

[Kristen Doute]

Doing it alone because Jax, you know.

[Ben Mandelker]

Jax wasn't doing any of that. Jax is off doing rehab or doing whatever, and I'm there raising our autistic son alone. And Jax is like, yeah, this would be really hard. Yeah, must be really hard.

[Ronnie Karam]

Excuse me, I gotta go pee. I gotta pee. Never mind. I gotta go pee. I gotta go pee. So sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

I should have started this before the autism section because it's probably a bad time, but I've really got to be right now. It's like, jeez, could you choose a more awkward time? So they're all like, okay, just go. They don't stop the show or anything. She just kind of goes off to pee.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Andy is talking. So Andy moves on to Michelle. Right. So after the bitter separation, Michelle moved from one dead eyed man to another dead eyed man. But this one's dead eyes were bugging out of his head. So Michelle, Jesse began to wonder if his new ex's honey was creating or was buzzing around while he and Michelle were still together. Jesse, you accused Michelle of cheating on you while you were married. Did you have any proof that she cheated? Jesse's like, well, we sat down with one of our really close friends, and her number one thing was, I did not cheat on you, and I don't want you talking about it on this show. So my friend looked her in the eye and said, but you did cheat on him. And she got pink in the face, Andy. And she admitted. And Michelle's like, that is not how the conversation went. Okay, that is not how it went, but whatever.

[Ronnie Karam]

While you went out one night, they met these two guys. They both started dating them. And Michelle's like, that's not what I said. And he said, well, did you cheat? And she's like, yeah, well, I kissed him. Well, you asked me did anything happen? And I explained exactly what happened. That you cheated. I did. Finally. Finally you've known before we started filming and you went on and tried to shame me because you wanted people to hate me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So we go over this whole thing. Was she cheating? Was she not cheating?

[Ronnie Karam]

So I fully support her cheating in this. You know, I don't always support cheating. I, I think generally I do not support cheating at all. But I think when it comes to Jesse's ass, I am fully in favor of Michelle having a liberating cheating moment. And then people can't get all righteous about this. I'm going to say people don't get righteous because how many romcoms have we seen where someone is in a mediocre to bad relationship and they meet someone great and they have like, they have like an affair and we all root for them to leave the shitty guy and go with the guy they like? We've all seen those movies. We've all liked it. I know movies aren't real life, but the point is, sometimes I'm okay with the rom com situation happening. I support Michelle kissing another guy while she's dealing with the living wretch and narcissist that is Jesse Lolly.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. You know, cheating's not great, but Jesse was out all the time. Like she's home alone raising a baby and he's going out partying, spending all their money to afford in the morning. So what is that? So if he actually doesn't stick his dick in somebody, it's not cheating? I guess technically. But what else would you really call it? I mean, I would say that's pretty close. You're out partying every night doing God knows what with your friends. And he probably.

[Ronnie Karam]

But he's, he's nailing her to a cross for a kiss. And like, I'm not saying that she's like, you know, again, not like we generally endorse cheating. And you know, I would have preferred it if she had kissed someone after she started the separation, but he's nailing her to the cross about a kiss when he's spent all their money and being a totally irresponsible partner and it's just awful and treats her badly and is and is derogative towards her and condescending and I don't care if he's charming and a model and can laugh and reveal all those jack o lantern teeth of his I don't care jokes, okay? I mean I'm going to grant her a kiss.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I doubt it was just a kiss anyway. She probably full on cheated and dated Aaron or whatever. But when you're in a relationship with a narcissist who's constantly degrading you and leaving you alone and doing all of this and you think you're at the end of your, I mean, whatever, I don't need to excuse, it's not my relationship. But Jesse is just taking whatever he can to not look like the fucking asshole in this relationship because we all watched his season one. We've watched him try and change season two while still going around calling her a stupid whore and all of this other shit. And see, we've seen the way he treats her on camera. And if he does that on camera, what is he like off camera? That's gotta be terrifying. His dead eyed terrifying personality is not cute. So when it's off camera it's a lot different. So you know this whole like I'm gonna use this kiss against you to really shame you so that no one's focusing on me. And I have to say it's worked. You know, if you read a lot of comments and stuff, we've discussed this at length, it has worked and it just, it's infuriating that this guy gets away with that shit. So I'm kind of with you. I'm like, I don't, I don't love cheating. But you, yeah, but you, yeah, but you. I don't care at this point. I will not be on team Jesse on this.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So Andy is like jesse, did you.

[Kristen Doute]

Ever cheat on Michelle?

[Ronnie Karam]

He goes, no, I don't cheat on anybody. And sure Michelle, you don't believe him? No. And then Michelle, I mean Kristen, sorry, I'm back. Don't mind me. Did I miss anything good? Did we accuse Michelle of cheating yet? Oh good, we're right in the middle of it. Perfect. So Andy's like Kristen, you said that Michelle had a boyfriend but that it wasn't and, and she's oh okay, welcome back. Huh? This is funny. My water broke but I gotta look back, I gotta leave, gotta leave. Haha. So Andy's like, all right, well Kristen.

[Kristen Doute]

You said last year at the mandrand that Michelle had a boyfriend. So what, what's going on was Aaron the boyfriend.

[Ronnie Karam]

I didn't have a boyfriend. Now, this is where Michelle's being tricky because she insists repeatedly, I never had a boyfriend. Like, Kristen was lying because I never had a boyfriend. And the negative space there is, of course, an implication, like, she had maybe a buddy, but they weren't officially boyfriend. So she's trying it.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, we weren't closed off, so, yeah, didn't count as.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's what she's doing. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So that's why I don't believe it was just a kiss. And Kristen's like, but, yeah, you were seeing someone. I know it's not Aaron. So, you know, the only thing I know about her and Aaron is exactly what I've said. You know, like, I mean, she asked me to text my friend, is he.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like a good guy?

[Ben Mandelker]

And, like, what's his deal? And that was the end of it. That was it. So I did it. And Andy's like, well, it was a boyfriend. It was just a friend. Jesse's like, yeah, a friend that she kisses. It was a friend who finally gave me attention. A lot happened during my marriage, but I never glows, did off with anybody.

[Ronnie Karam]

Andy, Jesse says she knows cheating and cheaters. That's my one thing. Oh, okay. He's acting like he's the first person in the world to be upset when he gets cheated on. And by the way, if cheating and cheaters are your one thing, why are you best friends with Jax? Just. I just. Just curious about that one. And why have you not laid into Jax for doing those things, especially because it's apparently a trigger point for you, but it may be only selectively. So Michelle is like, that's really interesting because as soon as I asked for a divorce, you started sleeping with a married woman. So which is it? And Jessica's. Who's the married woman? Well, you know who it is. It starts with the A. Oh, God.

[Ben Mandelker]

So now we've got another Pretty Little Liars on our hands. It's going to take us nine seasons to find out who A is.

[Ronnie Karam]

Is. Yeah, it's. Well, we all know it's. It's a. An Ana Anna Paquin.

[Ben Mandelker]

What are you trying to say there?

[Ronnie Karam]

I said it's.

[Ben Mandelker]

You went into some kind of coma.

[Ronnie Karam]

I was like, why can't I think of anyone who's any famous? Anna's.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, what? She's so good at the piano. I just can't. So Jesse's like, oh, oh, oh, my ex girlfriend who hasn't been married in 25 years, she goes, really? She is married. So again, I believe Michelle on this one because his eyes. His eyes say it all. You know, he. He does this stuff where he says something and then she calls him on the line and then he just does a really slow eye roll and looks away and has no argument.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

And that's what he did here. So that's his tell.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yep. So now everyone's, like, chatting the. Before we're in a commercial break, and Michelle's like, do I seem angry? And he is like, no, no, no. You still haven't registered an emotion for five years.

[Kristen Doute]

It's okay.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay. Because I still will never understand that term. Gaslighting.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, gaslighting. She doesn't know what gaslighting is, which, you know, I get. I mean, I. I can see that in her. So Andy's like, oh, Luke, Jesse said you told him at a time where Michelle went over to Aaron's apartment and caught him with another girl. And Jesse, we see that. And Jesse Lucas saying, well, before I say anything, I'll really want to apologize. Shouldn't have gotten in your marriage. But when she said that, when he. When she said that she was seeing somebody, that she went to see this guy and he was with another girl, that's what I said. That's. That's what I said. So that was my one thing to say in this reunion. So I hope I got it out right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for coming to my Luke talk. And Jasmine's like, oh, oh, oh. Can I ask a question? Like, the cheating of the. Like. Like, do you think that, like, emotionally, like, do you think that, like, you emotionally cheated on Jesse maybe? Like, was it emotional? Was it, like, cheating? Cheating. Was it emotional cheating? What kind of cheating was it? And Michelle, Jesse's like, 100%. That's what I said. That's what I said. Emotional cheating. Yeah. Cause that's what it sounds like. I mean, it's just what it sounds like to me. Just spoken to someone who's been a real estate pro for about five minutes.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. And so. And he's like, well, we're.

[Kristen Doute]

Michelle. Were you and Aaron in an emotional relationship? No.

[Ronnie Karam]

That is so false. Because he admitted to me in Hawaii, you guys used to meet up at the park while Isabella ran around. Hold on, let me finish. People who are not interrupting me. And he used to ask you for advice on this girl and on the girls he was dating. And then you asked him. She's like, that's not an emotional relationship. His words. His words. You asked him them for advice on our marriage and our separation. And so we see footage of Aaron being like, yeah, you know, I would talk to her about girls I was dating, and I would get her opinion. And then the only time she ever brought you up was when she said she was going to file for separation. Big emotional affair happening over there.

[Ben Mandelker]

And like, that is emotional cheating. Come on, a married woman with a child asking a single guy for advice about her husband? That is wildly inappropriate. No, it's not. While it's not inappropriate for men and women to be friends, Jesse, and to talk about their lives. Like, what are we in 1930? Like, well, 1950, I guess, would be more apt. But, like, what. What do we. What is this? Puritanical men and women can't be friends and talk about their relationships? Give me a break. Yeah, so Michelle is wildly inappropriate. You told our gland that you wanted to eat or out, like, wildly inappropriate. And he goes, oh, what? What? What are you talking about? And Jasmine's like, oh, yeah, get that same sale. Get that sale. I'm just kidding, guys. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Harassment's hilarious. Somebody else doing harassment's hilarious when it's one of my friends doing it.

[Kristen Doute]

Did you get the sale, though? Did you do it?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes. You did?

[Kristen Doute]

I made it.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like, yeah, I did. Somehow Jesse gets off the hook for this accusation because there's, like, a joke, and then, you know.

[Ben Mandelker]

Know.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's like. And then we move on, you know? So Andy's like, all right, how long.

[Kristen Doute]

Were you guys together?

[Ronnie Karam]

He's like eight and a half years. Ish.

[Kristen Doute]

Are we glad that you're not together still?

[Ronnie Karam]

And Janet goes, yes, yes, we are. Yeah, I think we're both happy.

[Kristen Doute]

Okay, well, then let's leave it there, because you guys are not famous enough.

[Ronnie Karam]

To keep talking about this.

[Kristen Doute]

Okay, well, that's too far away to hear.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm not gonna lie. Can we see Michelle by the fire escape? That would be great. Chelsea. Not far enough away from.

[Kristen Doute]

All right, well, after last season wrapped, Zach made comments at Jax's bar that.

[Ronnie Karam]

Left friendships in disarray and had Jenna.

[Kristen Doute]

Wanted to host an exorcism for his so called demonic behavior. Well, Kristen, when Janet apologized you at the White party, you said you were reluctant to believe she really wanted.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wanted to be friends with you.

[Kristen Doute]

Why was that?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, well, Janet was there like that. Like the Janet that's there on the Valley is not the V. It's not the. The Janet who I was friends with.

[Kristen Doute]

Okay, okay, well, what's the Difference between the two of them?

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, the Janet I was friends with used to wear her hair a little bit to the side, and the one in the Valley likes a ponytail. And that just creeps me the fuck out.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, she used to be funny and super intelligent. And the second we started filming, I was like, who the fuck even is this person? Who is he? And every time I make Kristen's head movements, I lose my place on the page. Sorry. Every time I see Kristen mine, I go, oh, man, I have to start searching. Jason's like, Docker speaking. So what are the examples? Because I hear a lot of this, like, big talk about, oh, Janice doing all these things she's masterminding. But I'm watching the show and I'm like, what are you guys talking about? Like, what is it? Kristen says, I mean, like, you're just not. You. Like, you're kind of Stassi Schroeder. You're kind of Lala Kent. You're kind of Sheena. Basically, she's saying she watches show and she's just copying reality star moves that other people have made long before her, which is what she's doing. And Janet's like, yeah, but this is what you're saying, though. I'm not out here saying I want to be those people. No, Janet, but you're trying to emulate. You don't have to say you're trying to emulate them. To emulate them. Dum dum.

[Kristen Doute]

Jesse, you wanted to say something? I heard a whistling through the.

[Ronnie Karam]

The Stonehenge. That is your mouth. And he's like, well, Janet and I have a good relationship, and we crack jokes together and stuff like that. And I watch her like a million times bring things back around that don't need to be brought up again. What we should be talking about is that Michelle is a slow who had an affair with me. And yet somehow that only comes up when I bring it up. I just don't like this double standard. What were we talking about?

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, yeah, basically, Janet sucks. Like, I've always liked Janet. But then I watch the show back and I see the Janet sucks. Like, and Kristen's like, yeah, like, she tries to get involved and make it about her. Jesse goes, yeah, it's like she wants to be involved in every little thing. And then all of a sudden, she tries to manipulate it. And Andy's saying, so you're saying she's manipulative. Andy's barely hanging on. He's just like, oh, my God, can I please go to bed? And Jesse's like, yeah. I mean, I watch a show and she sucks. And Jason's like, whoa, Whoa. That is wild, because I watched a show, too, and I just heard this side of the room talking about my wife. 80% of the time they're on camera. Yeah, because your wife starts 80% of the drama that's on the TV, Jason, that she puts herself. Herself in it. That's what they're saying. They're saying nothing has anything to do with Janet, but she manipulates everybody and gets herself in every situation for camera time. That's why they're always talking about her.

[Kristen Doute]

So, Zach, between seasons, what exactly did.

[Ronnie Karam]

You say at Jackson's bar opening? Okay, so there have been many different stories. Some people say I was totally hilarious and charming and maybe should have been sat farther up the sofa Alpha. And then others said, well, I was blackout. And I guess I told her. I said I wanted her to miss Kyrie. I don't really know. So Jax is. Jax goes, that's terrible. That's absolutely. And Andy is just like, I. I was. I mean, what part wasn't I groaning at on this episode? So Andy's like. And so.

[Kristen Doute]

Why would you say that? Well, you know what?

[Ronnie Karam]

That threw me off. I'm not gonna lie. And I don't know.

[Kristen Doute]

I don't know.

[Ronnie Karam]

When I said it, it was to Brittany, and it was not. I was, like, coming after her and these. It was a private, disgusting thing to say, not a public disgusting thing to say.

[Ben Mandelker]

So once again, this is something that Britney took and took to somebody else to start. Shit. Once again, like, Britney does this all the time. This is. The other 20% of storylines are Britney doing this shit. But this pissed me off. And I groaned really loud and booed at the TV because, Zach, I mean, I stood up for you. So I will have to take the L on this one, because I assumed it was Zach saying, since they never went into what exactly happened. I thought that Zach had said something when they were saying, like, you know, Janet is saying, you want her. You don't. Being stressed out can help her, can make her lose her baby or something. He's like, fine, then I don't care, or whatever. Something like that. But no, Zach, I guess, did say, like, than Ms. Carrie or whatever he said. That's terrible. Jesus Christ. And I totally believe it because we see how Zach is like, in the last. In the finale episode where he's like, shut up, stupid. Like, he just goes crazy with that mouth. But boo, boo. I'm just taking the l for you again.

[Ronnie Karam]

Hey everyone, this is the end of part one of this recap for part two. Keep an eye on on your podcast feed. It is coming up in just a moment. Thanks so much for listening. Catch you on the second half. Watch what Crappins would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King it's always a party on Allison Block Our.

[Ben Mandelker]

Way is the Amber way It's the.

[Ronnie Karam]

Foster and the Furious It's Amanda Foster.

[Ben Mandelker]

She can run my country it's Angie.

[Ronnie Karam]

McGovern it's always automatic with Ashley Otto. Put your hands hands together for Carly Clapp.

[Ben Mandelker]

Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt. She's not just a Sheila she's a Daniella Etchells. We never miss her call It's Diane.

[Ronnie Karam]

Call Aaron mcnicholas she don't miss no.

[Ben Mandelker]

Tricolus Hava Nagila Weber.

[Ronnie Karam]

You'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go, we all go for Hugo Jamie she has no less.

[Ben Mandelker]

Namey she's our kind of mess It's Jennifer Messer Sip some scotch with Jessica.

[Ronnie Karam]

Trots she's our favorite streamer Caroline Peacock.

[Ben Mandelker]

Pristine the Piston Anderson Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera sera whatever will be will Lauren.

[Ronnie Karam]

Silsby bringing the funk It's Leslie Plunkett.

[Ben Mandelker]

She gets an A from us It's Lindsey D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Lino. Fresh as a daisy It's Maisie McHenry we love her on the rocks It's Melissa Cox Megan Burke. You can't have a burger without the.

[Ronnie Karam]

Burg this is living with Michelle Vivian.

[Ben Mandelker]

I love a YA Olivia Williamson Tastier than Flanderson. It's Rachel Manderson she sure is swell. It's Raquel, yes we can. It's Savannah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Cast a spell with Shannon Spellman. Let's share with Sharon Eldridge.

[Ben Mandelker]

Darn skippy, it's Tippy the Bay area betches betches and our super premium spell sponsors She's VVIP It's Amanda V. Can't lose when you're with Amy Baldwin.

[Ronnie Karam]

Somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy MD.

[Ben Mandelker]

We'Re taking the gold with Brenda Silva.

[Ronnie Karam]

Let's get real with Caitlin o' Neal.

[Ben Mandelker]

Don'T get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily sides Let's go into the woods with Guy Tubbs it's our queen. It's Queen Laifa Nobody holds a candle.

[Ronnie Karam]

To Jamie K. Kendall. Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch Knock, knock, knocking on Katie Manock's door My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo we love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock we're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron She's a whiz It's Liz Sarthy always killing it.

[Ben Mandelker]

It'S long the incredible edible Matthew sisters She eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meatballs It's.

[Ronnie Karam]

Rebecca Cloud she's the queen bee It's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sarah Lemke we cannot tell a lie It's Sarah tell of son Shannon out.

[Ronnie Karam]

Of a can and Anthony please don't stop at solely and pop let's take off with Tamla playing It's always a.

[Ben Mandelker]

Good time when you're wasting time with Bravo she ain't no no shrinking violet Coutar we love you guys. If you like, watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.