#2978 RHOC S19E07 Part 2: See Ya Later, Alligator

Summary

Watch What Crappens – Episode 2978: RHOC S19E07 Part 2: "See Ya Later, Alligator"

Podcast Date: August 22, 2025
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam

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Episode Overview

This episode continues Ben and Ronnie’s sharp, hilarious, and lovingly savage recap of The Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC) Season 19, Episode 7, focusing on deepening drama among the cast—especially Tamara, Gretchen, Katie, and the fallout from the “roofie” rumors originating at the infamous "Naked Wasted" party. This second part dives into therapy sessions, cast-member alliances, messy back-in-the-day flashbacks, and the comical-yet-tragic spirals of denial and blame. Expect signature Crappens snark, impromptu impressions, and moments of piercing empathy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tamara’s Therapy Scene – The “Alone at Big Bear” Saga

[03:52–08:46]

• The hosts lampoon Tamara’s therapy session, focusing on her dramatics and seeming inability to take responsibility for conflict.
  • Tamara’s performance:
    • “It was so important for me to go up to Big Bear and to be isolated and alone. And that's what I was. Alone.”
    • Ronnie quips: “Alone with another person who could film me.” (04:38)
  • She rehashes being “yelled at” by castmates and details her anxiety, emotional meltdowns, and reliance on Xanax.
• Ben points out: Tamara has a long history of this “poor me” routine:
  • “You're completely reframing your wretched behavior all the time. Oh, it's perfect villain behavior.” (08:46)

2. Emily and Shane’s Parenting Dynamic & Luke’s Eating Struggles

[09:19–17:54]

• The hosts discuss Emily’s stress about her son Luke’s eating and Shane’s contrasting, detached parenting style.
  • Emily is seen missing calls from Luke while claiming to be a “mom in crisis.”
• Shane’s “toughen up” attitude versus Emily’s “fix-everything” anxiety.
  • Ronnie relates: “I'm more of a Shane... You're not going to the doctor unless you are bleeding out of your eye.” (13:21)
• Takeaway: Ben and Ronnie find value in the parental balance, but agree Shane could be more emotionally supportive.

3. Tamara & Heather’s ‘Who Has the Real Victim Card?’ Showdown

[17:59–29:28]

• At a restaurant, Tamara plays the "no one cares for me" card. Heather flips it:
  • “Excuse me, I called you that night. I spoke to you on FaceTime, and you hung up.” (26:28)
  • Heather: “I have stood by her to the detriment—Is that too big a word for this audience?—of my relationship with other people.” (27:26)
• Tamara counters with her own traumas—her daughter, Sydney, not talking to her; Teddy’s cancer—using them as excuses for her behavior, which the hosts find both gross and comical.
• Ben: “Cornered, she pulls both the Sydney and the Teddy card at the same time...” (29:28)
• Heather resigns: “She's whipped out the trauma cloak so this conversation's over. What are you going to do?” (29:49)

4. The Roofie Rumor Web: Gretchen, Katie, Slade, and Producers

[31:04–42:32]

• The podcast picks apart the mess around roofie accusations, who said what to whom, and behind-the-scenes manipulation:
  • Key confusion: Did Gretchen say she went to the hospital? Flashbacks show her contradicting herself (23:39–24:39)
  • Tamara’s “immunity agreement” with Gretchen is discussed, with Ben observing how strategic, not genuine, these alliances are. (24:39)
• Katie's storyline:
  • Katie as a "pawn" caught between covering for Gretchen and being thrown under the bus for allegedly spreading the roofie story via podcaster Kiki Monique. The hosts ridicule how everyone is rewriting history.
• Producer Manipulation:
  • “So it's really highlighting the producer's shadiness in all of this too.” (35:26)
• Core hosts’ take:
  • It’s wild the argument has shifted to “did Gretchen say it?” instead of focusing on why a cast member would feel roofied at all.
  • Ronnie: “If she says she was roofied, I would believe it because we saw the footage and she looked like she could have been roofied.” (39:38)
  • Ben: “This is also another very typical example of what happens with victims where she's now being villainized by the perpetrator.” (39:38)

5. Group Dynamics, Blame-shifting, and Upcoming Confrontations

[40:13–43:47]

• Ben and Ronnie lament the likely break-up of the Gretchen-Katie-Jen trio, ironically orchestrated by Tamara’s plotting.
• Ronnie: “You can’t be like, oh now I’m the victim because Gretchen won’t admit to saying it. You should never have done what you did, Katie. Come on.” (41:04)
• The mess is set to explode with the impending confrontation with Kiki Monique:
  • “Next week, Kiki makes her grand appearance on Orange County.” (43:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tamara’s therapy:
  • “I was so alone sitting on a log. Someone took the picture.” – Ronnie as Tamara (04:47)
  • “Oh, it's perfect villain behavior.” – Ben (08:46)
• On Emily and Shane’s parenting:
  • “You're not going to the doctor unless you’re bleeding out of your eye.” – Ronnie (13:21)
• On the “trauma cloak”:
  • “Cornered, she pulls both the Sydney and the Teddy card at the same time.” – Ben (29:28)
• On Gretchen and the ‘roofie’ storyline:
  • “Tamara’s immunity agreement… If you co-sign that you said this, I won't come after you. I'll use it to go after Katie.” – Ben (24:39)
  • “If she says she was roofied, I would believe it because we saw the footage and she looked like she could have been roofied.” – Ronnie (39:38)
• On producers meddling:
  • “It’s really highlighting the producer's shadiness in all of this.” – Ronnie (35:26)
• On group dynamics & drama escalation:
  • “These are the best seasons … when something grows out of a small thing and gets bigger and bigger.” – Ben (43:21)

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Important Timestamps

• [03:52] – Tamara’s therapy session begins (“I was so alone in Big Bear…”)
• [09:19] – Emily’s home: parenting struggles play out
• [17:59] – Tamara & Heather’s “victim-off” at the restaurant
• [23:39] – The “Did Gretchen go to the hospital?” clip; alliances and contradictions
• [29:28] – Tamara pulls the “trauma cloak”; Heather checks out of the fight
• [35:26] – Behind-the-scenes producer manipulations revealed
• [39:38] – Hosts defend Gretchen’s right to speak her experience (“I would believe her…”)
• [43:00] – Tease for next week’s big Kiki Monique confrontation

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Episode Tone & Style

Ben and Ronnie keep things quick-witted, irreverent, and biting, gleefully mocking housewives’ logic while occasionally landing moments of empathy for the cast’s real struggles. The running joke is that, for all the elaborate storytelling and trauma, most of the drama boils down to face-saving, blame-shifting, and producer-fueled games.

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Summary Takeaway

In this episode, Watch What Crappens delivers a pointed, thorough, and laugh-out-loud dissection of RHOC’s layered mess: Tamara’s perpetual victimhood and theatrical deflections, the “roofie” rumor tug-of-war between Gretchen and Katie (and the shadowy hand of Bravo production), and the parade of denial, revelation, and shifting alliances that make Housewives magic. The hosts’ commentary sits at the perfect intersection of Bravo superfandom and razor-sharp parody, setting up next week’s confrontation and escalating chaos.

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For RHOC fans and Bravo obsessives, this episode is a must-listen—equal parts roast, group therapy, and true Housewives scholarship.

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[Jen]

Watch what happens. Who cares what happens? Hi, everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of a two part recap. If wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. So that way you always get your episodes. But enough of that. Let's get right back into the episode. So Tamara's here, Dr. Michaela. And the doctor's like, so what's been going on with you? How you feeling?

[Tamara]

Well, you know, I've been like, really anxious and stuff because I was fighting with Eddie and he had to like literally hug me down and calm me down. Dr. Yeah, you know, I went to Big Bear and I had to isolate myself. It was so hard. I was so alone. I was so bullied. You know how in Big Bear they had big wooden bears at every place, every time they were going? Wow. So stop bullying me. You being so mean to me. Why is everybody. Why are the bears in Big Bears? I mean, therapy. But then I have to go to therapy because I have to shoot a scene where I don't get paid for this episode. So here I am. It was so important for me to go up to Big Bear and to be isolated and alone. And that's what I was. Alone. Alone and Big Bear share some footage that some person took of me being alone. Just so you know that I was.

[Jen]

Alone with another person who could film me.

[Tamara]

Look at me. I'm sitting on a log all alone with somebody. Satin behind the tree, taking a picture.

[Brandi]

I love that. It's just Tamara. I'm so alone sitting on a log. Someone took the picture. Tamara.

[Jen]

I know. So she's like, well, I confronted this.

[Tamara]

Girl about taking roofies, about talking about Rufus, and I wanted her to give.

[Jen]

Me a chance to believe her. That's. Oh, you're what? I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her.

[Brandi]

Sorry. I wanted to give her a chance to make me believe her or something like that.

[Jen]

I'm inviting you. I'm inviting you to say something truthful so I can finally believe you. I'm. I'm giving you the floor to, to change your narrative so it fits Mine. Would you. Would you like to take that chance?

[Tamara]

And then I just remember Gretchen yelling at me and Gina yelling at me, and Jennifer making a voodoo doll that was trying to copy my entire life. I called the car. I said, take me to the airport. And then when we're driving, I looked. The driver was a beignet. I was just such a mess. I was such a mess. And prior to dinner, I called Teddy, and Teddy didn't answer. And I just thought Teddy died or something. So that's when I took half a Xanax, everybody. I don't even remember anything. I don't remember anything after that.

[Jen]

And here you see a flashback of her calling Teddy. And Teddy's voicemail goes, hi, you've reached Teddy. Don't leave a voicemail.

[Tamara]

And Tamara's like, teddy, I'm leaving your voicemail. Please help you do. Okay, I'm on camera right now, so America needs to see that I care.

[Brandi]

It's a very Teddy voicemail greeting. It's like, hey, I'm Teddy. Don't leave a voicemail. Beep.

[Jen]

But I love that she still leaves a voicemail, because I think that Teddy sincerely is like, really? Don't leave a voicemail. I do not deal with your voicemail.

[Brandi]

But I also like that Teddy just starts with, hi, I'm Teddy.

[Jen]

Hi, I'm Teddy. Hi, I'm Teddy. You reach my voicemail. Don't leave a message.

[Tamara]

I was just upset. Satchick and Xanax and she drinks. It's because Teddy's sick, everybody. I just don't want people to see that side of me. The side of me where I get caught taking Xanax and drinks. When everybody's seen that side on these episodes of this show, it's like, Tamara.

[Brandi]

We all know the only. We know now what it is, but we've seen for years when you show up with your little black, beady eyes and act like that, it's not like the first time that this has ever happened.

[Jen]

I know, and I love that she's.

[Tamara]

Like, you know, they knew I did something. They could tell.

[Jen]

And we just see these little bubbles of flashbacks. Here's Tamara having. Trying to have this very serious therapy scene. And they put up a little bubble of Gina going, you sloshed.

[Tamara]

And then not one of them called me. Not one of them. No one's even concerned about me after I told them all to off and die. I mean, it's crazy. Like, no one even cares how I got home or nothing.

[Brandi]

And the doctor's like, huh? And how do you make sense of that, honey.

[Tamara]

She's like, they don't care about me. They don't like me. And nobody like. To me, I feel rejection. I have to think. I have to think, does this person like me? Now everywhere I go, I'm like, does this person like me? The other day, I went to buy a tank top and bear, big bear. And I was like, does that lady like me? Probably not. Probably not. She didn't rest me for my child. And other signs I've been bullied, Bullied wherever I go. Am I allowed to talk?

[Jen]

So Doc is like, you're very wounded, and I would say just a little bit annoying. That's part of your pathology.

[Tamara]

Yeah, well, after my dad left, my mom and Sydney left me, and Quiznos closed down. It's just hard to get close to someone. I put a wall up. She's my dad and, you know, Sydney and stuff. I just feel like I'm never good enough. I just don't know where my place is anymore. It's almost like you can't accuse people of stuff and trying to ruin their lives and stuff without them saying something back at you. It's just not right.

[Brandi]

So then, camera. Such a Tamara scene.

[Jen]

Oh, my God. Tamara's therapy is the gift that keeps on giving. I love it. I love how she comes in there just like it's like with Jax with his, like, his rehab scenes. Tamara coming in there crying and being like, oh, my God, am I even allowed to talk? I can't even say anything. People don't like me. I'm never good enough. Oh, what was me? And it's like, you're, like, completely reframing her wretched behavior that all the time. Oh, it's perfect villain behavior.

[Brandi]

Like, wow, so that's what you're wearing tonight. I mean, you look a little heavy. God, that was really shitty of you to say. Oh, I'm sorry. I can't say anything.

[Jen]

I can't say anything. Oh, okay. Cancel culture. So then we go to Emily, and she's home with Luke and the family, et cetera. And so they're trying to get Luke to eat some food. Looks like he's eating some fries. Whatever. He doesn't want to eat any sweet potatoes. It's funny because they're like. She's like, you want to have some sweet potato? And he's like, no way, Jose. And he's like, it's orange. And they're trying to show this is, like, further evidence, which I don't doubt. You know, he has a eating disorder. But I'm also like, to be fair, as a kid, you might not want to eat sweet potato like kids are, you know?

[Brandi]

Yeah, that is part of it. Like, okay.

[Jen]

And so would you like some broccoli? Like some broccoli and Brussels sprouts? No.

[Brandi]

Oh, my God. You don't like orange food? Well, I mean, Keller would try anything. The normal one would eat it. Oh, my God. How is it, like, watching you deal with this is, like, hard. It's hard to watch. Even as a non parent, I'm just like, oh, my God. And while I watch it, I'm like, don't say anything you're not supposed to parent. Shame. You don't understand what this is. Like, this is not your lived experience. And I get all that, but at the same time, I'm like, oh, my God. You're gonna. You're gonna. Why are you doing this? Stop it. I think she'll show up in her angels. I'd be like, stop it.

[Jen]

I think she's trying to be like, hey, it's okay. Look, Keller eats it. It's totally fine. But it's really coming off as like, Keller eats it.

[Brandi]

What's wrong with you? Hey, non freak, you want to try sweet potato? See, that's how you do it.

[Jen]

Shane is like, okay, let's get him out of here. So the kids go off and he gives Emily this really, really long hug, like he doesn't want to leave Emily, et cetera. So they go, and Emily starts talking about how when she was in New Orleans, Luke was calling over and over and over again and sort of made her feel bad. And she talks about how.

[Brandi]

But then we see evidence of this, and every time he answers, she just puts it on, like, go to voicemail.

[Jen]

I just feel so guilty.

[Brandi]

As a mom, you have a child in crisis. And he called me over and over again. And then they show him calling, and she's like, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail. It's like, man, the editors hate your ass, because that's. She was probably just like, pressing likes on tweets or something. And the editors were like, yeah, let's just show Emily pressing ignore on her child in crisis over and over. That's cold, you guys. Come on.

[Jen]

So she says that he started, like, when she came home. He was talking, like, all baby like and regressive. And Shane's like, yeah, but when he's. When you're here, he's like. He's like, normal. It's just like when you're here, he talks like a baby. I'm not saying that you baby him, but maybe it's time to throw out the baby bottles. You know what I'm saying?

[Tamara]

What?

[Jen]

So they're talking about this, and yeah.

[Brandi]

She'S like, no, but it's neurological. That's how. Why we have testing Shane. And Shane's like, okay, but if it's neurological, then we have to work around it, you know? I mean, you go to New Orleans, he gets up, he gets ready, and go to school. But when you're here, he texts you all day from school. He won't go. He won't leave. He's hugging you. Like, some of it is just an act for your attention, Emily. And she's like, he's possibly autistic, and you're simplifying it.

[Jen]

He's basically like, well, now I'm getting mad because, like, you act like I have to, like, cry and be upset and consider. Like, I don't have to, like. Like, I care just as much as you do. But you're making it seem like. Because I'm not, like, half expressing all these emotions that I don't care. Feel the same way. And then he tells us, and I was sort of like. I was sort of like. I kind of like Shane's perspective on this. And then he starts saying how, well, I'm more sensitive to my girls, and maybe that's wrong, but, like, you know, for me, like, whatever. He's like, if it were me, I wouldn't send the boy. Like, send them to a specialist right away. Because, like, the. The. I'm always telling my boys, you have to, like, you know, like, toughen up and, like, walk it off. And I'm like, well, I don't know, like. Like, if there's something that needs to be addressed, like, go to a specialist. Can we, like, step out of our gender roles for one second?

[Brandi]

I mean, I think what he's just trying to say is kids are kids, and you don't know how much of it is a kid being just an odd kid and going through a phase or how much of it is an actual thing. And, like, his way is just kind of taking it at the kid's pace and figuring it out as they go along. And Emily is, like, freaking out over every little thing and trying to label it as, oh, God, it's got to be this disease or that disease, or it has to be autism or it has to be an eating disorder. And he's like, can we just, like, chill? You know, because even if it is those things, it's not like, we're going to throw the kid. It's not like there's something instant you can do where you can just throw the kid into some kind of a machine and change everything. You're going to just have to kind of learn how to deal with it as you go along. Right. And so I think he's just got that more chill attitude where she's in, like, we have to fix it mode, which, I mean, I can see both sides. Obviously, I'm more of a Shane, you know, I mean, I was just raised to be like, you're not going to the doctor unless you are bleeding out of your eye. You know? But then I also had phases of growing up where I was diagnosed with a lot of different stuff that at that time was like, what even is that? It's like dyslexia or ADD and stuff like that. I was diagnosed with that stuff when I was younger, and we were just like, sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me, you know? And then as an adult, yeah, I do still type words in jumbles, as you see in my notes, constantly. There are moments where I have that. And add. I think anyone who listens to this show can probably vouch for that one being correct. But I don't know. It's like, is one. Is one version of parenting better than the other? I don't know.

[Jen]

I don't know. I think it's actually good to have the balance. I think it's good to have someone who is concerned and is like, it's like, we should look into this. I think it's also good to have someone who is saying, like, let's also, like, let's not make our child lose mind. Like, he's still. He's still a kid, and we can't make him. We can't treat him like. Like we have. We can also let him just go out in the world and exist, too. So I think the balance is good. But where Shane I think is not great is that, like, Emily is obviously emotional about this, and he is, as usual, not very supportive. When she needs some. She needs some support from her partner, and he's kind of like, why are you acting like this? Okay, well, okay, we can hug. Fine, let's hug. And he's like, it's like, it's one thing for him to, I think, maybe be more stoic around the whole situation, but I think within, when it comes to your wife and she's going through it, like, maybe step up a little bit and try to, like, do something to put her at ease because she is your partner.

[Brandi]

Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. But I can also see his side because you see him try to be patient with Emily during these conversations where he's just obviously thinking different and he doesn't want to label it all these things. Just. He's not ready to go, like, whole, whole hog on this. And Emily is just being kind of so over the top about every little thing. Like, he didn't want a French fry. Oh, my God, this is a huge thing. Isn't eating this. And he's like, oh, my God, it's normal for a kid to not want a French fry. So I think he's trying to be patient. And it's. There is a sense from Emily, like, well, I care more because I'm crying a lot. And like, how can you not care that our son has this disease? I mean, I would feel like she's saying that to me when he's like, it doesn't mean I don't care. It's like, just because I'm not going into histrionics about a sweet potato doesn't mean that I don't care about our son. So please don't insinuate that. But I do see what you're saying as far as, like, when somebody's really going through. It doesn't really matter if she's right or wrong. She still needs somebody to just be like, listen, everything you're saying, if. If you're correct about every single thing, and he has all. An eating disorder and he's autistic and he has all of this other stuff, it's going to be okay, and we're going to get through it together, and you don't need to.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Brandi]

Take it all on yourself. You know, he needs. She. He needs to, like, be able to do that too.

[Jen]

Yeah. I think because I. I do. Like, when he's sort of being like, hey, if it's a neurological thing, nothing to be upset about, like, it's just who he is, you know, and you just will work around it and make accommodations. He's trying to sort of like, he's trying to be actually very like. Like a return to normalcy. Like, hey, it's okay. We can be normal. Like, you don't. It's nothing to cry over. Like, if this is just the way he is, it's the way he is. We love him all the same. Right. I think he's trying to come from that tactic. But I think that, like, I think that Emily just needs reassurances that everything's okay. And I think she's feeling. She also has all these other issues about being a mom that come from her own childhood. So she's just sort of going through it. So that's what happened in that scene. Then we go over to Tamora.

[Brandi]

It's a barrel of monkeys over at that house. Great times. Great times.

[Jen]

So we go. We go over to ospy, and we have Heather meeting up with Tamra, and they have like, Tamara is very cool. She's like, how are you?

[Tamara]

I'm sad you may have noticed. I love Dr. Poly.

[Jen]

Like, that's her whole vibe. So Heather's like, how are you? Most importantly. And by most importantly, I put that in air quotes. It's more like least importantly because you should be asking me how I'm doing, since I just had to put floors into a mansion that I'm gonna sell at a loss.

[Brandi]

I just wanted you to know this is a very sensitive scene with you, Tamra. So I ordered peppermint tea instead of ships. I'm feeling things. This is me feeling.

[Jen]

Okay, so what happened now that our handsome waiter Cody, has come and left? Cause that guy Cody is like, hey, everyone, I'm Cod. I'll be your waiter. Would you guys like some biceps or triceps for your appetizer? All right, bye, everyone.

[Brandi]

Oh, I'm here to serve your tea bag. Whoa.

[Jen]

Whoa. Cody.

[Tamara]

Wow. Well, I guess I'm doing a little bit better than I was. I don't know if you saw the social media post sad mental health that I was sitting on a log all alone, a big bear. Isolating. Isolating. Not even the bears would talk to me. Big bear. Yeah. You know, but you.

[Jen]

You know, I felt like you walked into dinner in a good spot. You had a big smile on your face.

[Tamara]

Yeah. Because I thought for once, we. We got Gretchen on. On the side. We got our Gretchen on the side, and we were gonna just roast Katie. It looked great. Everything was going our way. And I talked to Gretchen, and I thought that I believed what she said, but then I thought back out of better acting, and I was like, hmm, no.

[Brandi]

So, yeah, she's basically saying she believed Gretchen's act of being so horrified at what Katie has done, but it all turned into a plan to ruin Tamara's plan. Tamara, you don't even sound how you sound like you don't even understand how you say it, because it is what you said. I mean, basically what she's saying is.

[Tamara]

Like, I talked to Gretchen. I had it all ready to go. And then before the dinner Gretchen decided she wasn't gonna go on with my plan. Do you know how upsetting that is? Do you know how upsetting it is?

[Jen]

That's what she's offended about. She's like, yeah, Gretchen, when she says that, she said when I thought back to her acting, she's literally saying like, wow. She led me on into thinking she'd be on my side, but then she wasn't on my side in trying to draw drive a wedge between her and Katie.

[Brandi]

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[Jen]

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[Brandi]

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[Jen]

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[Brandi]

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[Jen]

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[Brandi]

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[Brandi]

So this is where it gets really wonky. So Tamara says, okay. And I said to her, did you tell Katie at any time that you had to go to the hospital? And then we see a clip of unaired footage of them being in the van. And Tamara said she's asking Katie and Gretchen. No, no, she's saying she's asking Gretchen. And Gretchen's kind of whispering because she doesn't want it to be on camera probably. But she's like, yeah, but I did have to go to the hospital because I was so sick. So like, yeah, she said there that she did have to go. And she told her that. And so Tamara's like, and Gretchen is a queen of denial. You know, didn't say I went to the hospital. Well, yeah, you did. So which one is it? And then we see the clip of this is where Gretchen is in the confusing pink dress that was freaking me out that says I didn't go to the hospital. I felt so sick that I should have gone to the hospital. So Gretchen's a goddamn liar too. This is where I almost threw shit at the tv. I was like, wait a minute, you're all liars. All of you. Come on, man.

[Jen]

Well, because she knows that this is going to go like. What Gretchen probably knows is that this is Tamara's ploy. This is Tamara's immunity agreement that she's offering to Gretchen, which is if you co sign that you said this, I won't come after you. I'll use it to go after Katie. But Gretchen is afraid that Tamara's gonna go back on the immunity agreement and turn it into an issue of, like, how could you tell people that I. That I roofed you? That's illegal. You should never. She knows this is gonna be used against her, so now she's like, oh, I'm gonna hedge. I'm gonna actually, like, I did say that. But now I'm. I. You know, I don't want to get involved because I know this will be used against me, and I don't want to go back to naked wasted. That's my interpretation of it. And of course, Tamara is gonna do that exact thing. She is gonna revoke the immunity, I guess, because Gretchen didn't hold up her end of the immunity bargain. But now, now this fight, I guarantee in four weeks from now, I'm gonna be like, what caused all this mess in the first place? It's all just. It's just this whole thing is gonna spiral out of Tamra just trying to turn Gretchen against Katie by saying that Katie has been telling people that Gretchen has been saying that Tamara roofied her.

[Brandi]

My God. So Tamara says, oh, yeah, I had.

[Tamara]

Some suspicions going into dinner that it wasn't gonna work out. So I got triggered. I got. You know, so I knew I was going to get upset, so I didn't want to get upset. So instead of getting upset, I took a Xanax. I mean, God, I'm just on an island by myself. What am I supposed to do? It's just. I was taking a vitamin before rage.

[Brandi]

Hello?

[Jen]

Hello? My turn, my turn. What about me? I was worried about you. I sent a text to Terry and said, I wonder what's going on with Tamara. Did you not know that?

[Brandi]

Hey, Terry, you have a show called Botched. Could you have one that's called psychologically botched and find out what's going on with. With cuckoo pants over there? Because Cheese.

[Jen]

So Tamara goes, I didn't get a call. And then Heather just. All of a sudden, it's almost like. It's like the cape comes out and the evil queen is there, and she goes, excuse me. I called you that night. I spoke to you on FaceTime, and you hung up. Then I texted you, how are you? Where are you? And you know what? What do you do? You text me, you call me. Guess what? The tables have turned. This is my fight now, and I am the victim of the evening.

[Brandi]

I am extremely upset, and I'm going to show it by doing my underbite anger. Look. You notice when she does that, she juts her chin out and she puts, like, her upper teeth under her lower teeth and she goes, hmm.

[Jen]

Yes. This is when she has not only the claw hands, but she has the okay symbols. Yes and no.

[Tamara]

Okay, then. Okay. Okay then, fine.

[Brandi]

And she's like, I have been Tamara's friend and I have stood by her to the detriment. Is that too big of a word for this audience? Okay, I'll keep going. Just replace it with something else to the detriment of my relationship with other people. And I think the bare minimum you can text back. I think I've earned that.

[Jen]

You. You. What you're doing, going to social media and multiple podcasts before talking to me. And how can you. Can you understand how that might be upsetting to me? To me?

[Tamara]

Why can't you understand how I was feeling? I feel not alone. Not even a bear would talk to me. A big bear. You know how that feel.

[Jen]

I do, I do, I do.

[Tamara]

Please don't. You're trying to make me sound like a bad person. Well, I'm sorry, Heather, that I didn't make you feel more comfortable when I was in defeated position down on the ground.

[Jen]

That's not what I'm saying. Reaching out to you. I was reaching out to you. Rich person to less rich person. Also known as a poor and caring. And I was being a very caring person, as I've learned in my Stella Adler acting classes. You go like this. Oh, how are you? That's caring. Congratulations. And you threw me out. I felt like I wasn't important to you.

[Tamara]

Do you know what it's like to have to relive why your daughter doesn't want to talk to you, and in the meantime, your best friend gets brain cancer? I'm going through so much. I've got you so much.

[Brandi]

Stop it. None of those are an excuse to be evil. My daughter hasn't talked to you in forever. Okay, that's not like, fresh news. And this Teddy cancer stuff is. Is not your. Your free pass to be a dick to everybody. I can't even believe she's using it like that. That is so gross. Stop using other people's pain and real life traumatic storylines to your own advantage. That is so gross. Who does that?

[Jen]

It was so gross, but so hilarious. Cornered that she pulls out. She pulls both the Sydney and the Teddy card at the same time. God. And Heather just has to be like. She does that thing where she, like, she puts all her force in her face, right into her lips. Clothes just pull. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry about that.

[Brandi]

But she tells us. You know, I feel bad for her, but she's not going to listen to me. It. We don't have any room to continue this conversation because she's just. You know, she's basically like, okay, she's whipped out the trauma cloak, so this conversation's over. What are you going to do?

[Jen]

I thought about using my Reba McIntyre card and talking about the time that Reba ignored me when I went to Spago's, but she's not.

[Brandi]

I know what it's like to be frozen out. Have you ever heard of a little show called Happy's Place? Well, I hadn't until it had already been filmed.

[Jen]

Listen, you can always call me or even. Or text me, even if you just want to vent. And I will check that voicemail later. So just know that.

[Brandi]

Just know that somewhere Alfredo is reading that and thinking, should I give this to Heather, or is she going to throw the phone at my face again?

[Jen]

Did you know that if you order fried oysters in a baguette in New Orleans, they call it an Alfredo? Amazing.

[Tamara]

Okay, now, serious question. What's more beautiful? Did sir Misu here or the way that.

[Brandi]

So then we go to Katie and Matt at home, and their son's there, and she's like, can I, honey, make me a martini. Think you want a martini, Mom? She's like, mommy needs a martini. Okay, just shut up. Do your coloring or whatever it is you're gonna do. Go to bed. I don't even care. Okay, so then they sit down. And then meanwhile, at Goat Hill Tavern, Jen shows up to meet Emily, and Gretchen comes. And Gretchen's like, what is this place?

[Jen]

Gretchen did not even bother looking on Yelp beforehand to see where she's going. Also, Gretchen has, I guess, now fully transitioned away from being, like, the Texas party girl that she was when we met her, because she is in, like, a fur coat, and she's just, like, dressed up like she's going to Javier's, and they're just in a dive bar, and she's confused while meanwhile, Jen's standing there in, like, shiny black leather pants, like, and, like, ready to throw down Some bottles of Schlitz.

[Brandi]

Yeah, they look kind of crazy in the spar. But yeah, it is pretty funny that Gretchen is now acting like she's way above being in an Irish pub, you know?

[Jen]

Yeah. Like she's never been in one of these places before when, like, this was her whole storyline.

[Brandi]

So the waiter comes over and Emily's like, so I hear your espresso martinis are not great, so I'll take one. God, she's just so rude. Wherever she goes, she's so rude. And the guy doesn't even care. He's like, whatever. Whatever, lady.

[Jen]

Espresso martinis are my thing now. So Emily talks about our son has an eating disorder and, you know, they just don't know how to parent him. Etc. And, like, she just doesn't know how to do it. And Jen's like, let's play pool. She's like, I don't want to talk about it. So we go back to Katie and she's like, oh, man. The final night, Gina comes in and she's like, I called the reporter and he confirmed that he. You did tell Kiki the story at Mastro's. And did you hear Slade talk about this? Did you ever hear Slade talk about this roofy stuff? And Matt's like, yeah. And I can say this. You didn't make it up. So that's all that needs to be said.

[Brandi]

So now we have confirmation that Slade was basically telling everybody that Gretchen was roofied that night. So Katie's. So Katie's like, yeah. All right, guys. Well, after Nola, I felt like I had been thrown under a bus. I gave Gretchen the chance to come clean when I brought up Mastros and she didn't. And she said she was sure Tamara direct her the night of naked wasted. It was clear as day what she said. And Jen backing Gretchen tells me all I need to know about those two.

[Jen]

So now this trio is going to implode because now Katie is saying that, yes, she did say this to Kiki Monique, but she didn't admit to saying it because she was covering for Gretchen because Slade had already called him and said, deny, deny, deny, deny. So that's what she was doing. But now she's getting screwed because Gina called the reporter and she's basically saying that Jen is continuing to cover for Gretchen, but Katie is not going to cover anymore.

[Brandi]

But just to be clear, she still has not admitted to calling Kiki.

[Tamara]

She's.

[Brandi]

Yes, she is not. She's just say now. Somehow it's a mystery how Kiki found this Out. But Gretchen did say. Gretchen did say Gretchen.

[Jen]

Slade did say it.

[Brandi]

So that's where she's at right now. So now back at the bar, Jen's like, okay, let's talk about this Katie thing. You know, I want to support Katie, but, I mean, what the hell is going on?

[Tamara]

And Gretchen's like, yeah, when I had time to decomp, decompress, I thought, am I being naive? Am I like, what's happening?

[Brandi]

And I'm like, yes, yes, you are.

[Jen]

So then Gretchen's like, yeah, Katie originally.

[Tamara]

Told me that she had no problem saying that she would try to clear this up.

[Jen]

And then we see a clip of Katie saying, like, you know what? I'm gonna call Kiki, and we'll bring it up on camera. But then all of a sudden, Kiki. I mean, Katie backs out and is like, no, I'm not gonna call Kiki anymore.

[Brandi]

She's like, yeah, you know, it's just really late over there. I was gonna say FaceTime, but am I really ready for a face? I don't know if I'm really ready for that. I mean, she'll just lie anyway. She's just gonna lie.

[Jen]

So Katie's like, well, I mean, why am I to blame? Gretchen and Slade are the ones spreading all this and making this story up. And real talk, wait, back it up. Am I saying what really happened, or am I protecting Gretchen? Like, what do you want me to do? Producers imagine the producer said, please protect Gretchen.

[Brandi]

So it's really highlighting the producer's shadiness in all of this too. So the producer is like, okay, well, just tell me what really happened. Let's go. There she goes. Okay. All right, gather round, everybody. Here's another version of the truth by Katie. After Matt spoke to me, when this info about Kiki came out, Slade called Matt and said, tell Katie to say that Gretchen never said it, and I have to hold the line and protect Gretchen. So if Kiki's. If Kiki's claiming that I knew this story from Gretchen, the only time I've hung out with Gretchen was with Ryan and Jen, so they would have heard it. So why am I blamed for it? Why isn't Jen in trouble for telling Kinky Monique is basically what she's saying, right? Like, why am I blamed for calling Kiki Monique when Jen and Ryan were also there and heard this story? Because, Katie, we know that you went to lunch with Kiki. Monique, we don't know that Jen went to lunch with Kiki. I mean, Katie, girl, this is also.

[Jen]

So fucked up, because we all saw whether there was roofies or not. We all saw that there was a plan to get Gretchen wasted at that party. There's a plan to supply her with alcohol. And of course, you're responsible for what you put in your body. But like, we all saw. We all know it's a legendary. Seen in Housewives lore for a reason. And yet somehow we're now in a place where, like, Gretchen has to be protected. Like. Like, oh, no, Gretchen said she was roofied. Like, we can't let that out. Like, she said that, like, Gretchen was the victim here. Gretchen was like, if you ask me, she was the victim. And like, now all of a sudden. And now all of a sudden, like, we. It's like, oh, we have to tiptoe around the fact that she felt like she was roofied. Like, I kind of think that's too, like. Like, she should be allowed to say, like, yeah, I think I was roofie that night.

[Brandi]

You know, especially, I'm wondering if Gretchen is worried about getting sued or something.

[Jen]

I think she's either worried about getting sued, but from Tamra, or she may be worried that brought, like, Bravo would not be happy with her saying that because it makes Bravo look bad because it happened on their watch, and she doesn't want to get on the bad side, whatever it is. She's very self conscious about actually being on the record as making a big claim like that. And the truth is this, like, a lot of people, like, when they. I. You hear from so many people. First of all, there's a lot of people who get roofied, which is scary, but there are a lot of people who will say, like, oh, I went to a. To a bar last night, and, like, I only had, like, two drinks, and I was, like, on the floor in a way that I don't normally. I think someone put something in my drink. People will say that a lot, and I'm not. And it's not discounting it, but that's something that people say. And I don't think that Gretchen should be, like, afraid of. Of like, having said that ever.

[Brandi]

Yeah. And someone sent us a DM this week saying. Or maybe it was a comment or something saying, you guys, please don't make it sound like Ryan raped Gretchen. Ryan didn't rape Gretchen. She said no, and he laid off. So please don't make. Okay, first of all, we never said that Ryan raped Gretchen. But if you watch that episode again, know that was not as simple as somebody saying no and then somebody backing off. That was her getting progressively more and more wasted. She's completely out of it in the whole episode. And he's over there, like, putting things in her boobs. And he's honor with his hands all over the whole time, following her into the bathroom, coming onto a really heavy. He did not. She said no, and he did not just walk away. It was trying to convince her and trying to do all this, which you guys know that if this was to get today's standards, that would not fly at all. I can't even believe it did. Did back then. But we're not saying he raped her, but we are saying that man is an extreme creep and so is his mother. And they're. It's nuts that they got away with this and she's even back here. And it's nuts that she's bringing this all back into the public eye because it was bad. It was really, really bad. And I'm not being a Janet or an alarmist by saying that it was bad.

[Jen]

It was bad.

[Tamara]

It was bad. And I don't feel bad seeing it.

[Brandi]

And by the way, the comment Hunter was totally nice. I'm not yelling at you. I'm just saying, like, come on, watch it again.

[Jen]

But what. But it's just. It's interesting because this. The whole, like, focus of the argument is now shifting into, like, did Gretchen say it? Did Gretchen not say it? And I'm like, if she said it, I think she's, like, well within her right to say it.

[Brandi]

I think she is. And that's what I said last week. Like, if she says she was roofied, I would believe it because we saw the footage and she looked like she could have been roofied. So I would have. I would totally believe that. And this is also another very typical example of what happens, I think, a lot of times with victims where she's now being villainized by the perpetrator. Basically, it's like all these years later, you're re. Litigating it and you're reframing it as if you're being victimized by Gretchen somehow. And that's absolutely fucking bottom of the barrel. It's gross.

[Jen]

So basically, Katie feels like a pawn, and she thinks that. That Gretchen has been caught in a lie. And just also kind of a shame, because these. These three are kind of like. I like that they're. I like their little trio. I like that they, like. They're dealing with Tamara and Emily and Gina, and I just. I. I like them. I like them as a trio and looks like they're gonna fall apart, which.

[Brandi]

Well, Katie's whole.

[Jen]

Tamara's plan was.

[Brandi]

Yeah, and Katie's whole victim act here is ridiculous too. You know, Katie, you were the one who took this information straight to a podcaster, I mean, a radio person, and laid it out there. Like, who does? Like, that is bullshit. You know, Like, I'm Team Katie for most of this. Because even though I know she's a liar, she's still fighting people. She's still fighting the person that I think is the worst.

[Jen]

Right? In the good fight. Right?

[Brandi]

So, I mean, obviously she's been full of shit through a lot of this, but you can't be like, oh, now, now I'm the victim, because Gretchen won't admit to saying it. You should never have done what you did, Katie. Come on. Like, I like you, but your. Your rewrites are just too much at this point. Or just apologize for sake. What you did was gross.

[Jen]

Or Kitty should just. Just should just live in it. Because guess what? If she has to fall out. If she. If she falls out with Gretchen now because of this, it would have been the same as if she had fallen out of with Gretchen because she said, yeah, I did tell Kiki Monique. And, like, wouldn't you rather fall out while you stood in your truth? And then people were like, yeah, I like that. She, like, owns what she says, but instead she's falling out in a position where we say, well, Katie, she. She says that she didn't say it. And then she always comes back and says, well, I did say it. So, like, Katie has to, I think, be just more. If you're gonna fall out with them anyway, then just be more comfortable saying, like, yeah, I was messy. She's getting better, but she's not quite there yet.

[Brandi]

No, she's not even close. And then she turned on Kiki Monique. I mean, she's been all over the Instagram and everything else and this show saying, kiki Monique's just a fucking liar now. And so what does she lie about exactly? Because you went to. Yeah, now Kiki's the liar. So you went to lunch with Kiki. Then where did Kiki get the information about the roofie if it wasn't from you? Like, it doesn't even make sense that Kiki would just make something like that up when all this happened at Mastros. And, like, your lies don't even make sense now, Katie, come on, man.

[Jen]

Yeah, Kiki is not going to be like, let me just start up. Like, let me create a rumor about something that happened 12 years ago. No, so. So Gretchen is saying, how she feels like she has to call Kiki Monique now, which is what they should have done all along. And Jen is saying, I mean, playing devil's advocate, if Gretchen did say this, then why would Katie repeat it it to a blogger or a radio host? And Gretchen says, I need to get.

[Tamara]

To the bottom of this.

[Jen]

And so next week, Kiki Kiki makes her grand appearance on Orange county and we're gonna see what happens to settle the score and put it all out there.

[Brandi]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, what a mess. But this was really a good episode. And all these things came unfolding that I didn't think we're gonna unfold. I mean, really, these are the best seasons.

[Jen]

The best seasons are when there's like a small thing and a build and then something else grows out of it and gets bigger and bigger and bigger. As opposed to the bad seasons are the ones where they try stuff and it doesn't work. So it's this episodic, like, here's the. Here's another three week storyline. And here's another three. But this is just like it's growing, it's snowballing. They're whipping themselves into a frenzy over something honestly that like, really is not worth roping themselves into a frenzy for. But they're doing a great job at it.

[Brandi]

Yeah. Good times, everybody. Well, thanks so much for being here, everybody. We will see you Monday with Real Housewives of Miami and Crappy Hour, which will be at 5:30pm Pacific Time live over on our YouTube. You can also find links on our Instagram or it's a free post on Patreon. So go check that out.

[Jen]

Bye, everyone.

[Brandi]

Love you guys.

[Jen]

Watch what crap. INS would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King. It's always a party on Allison Block.

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A good time when you're wasting time with Bravo she ain't no shrinking violet couture we love you guys. If you like, watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcast Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.