#2990 RHOC S19E08 Part 1: Katie-Sixed

Summary

Watch What Crappens – Episode #2990: RHOC S19E08 Part 1: Katie-Sixed

Release Date: September 5, 2025
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ben and Ronnie break down the chaos and drama of "The Real Housewives of Orange County" Season 19, Episode 8, focusing on the fallout from the Katie scandal. The duo analyze the group’s intensifying feuds, the mechanics of accusation and exile, and how the cast navigates the "toxic" label as it hovers over the season. This installment is filled with sharp wit, pointed critiques, hilarious tangents (including wild bobcat sightings and broken penises), and signature affectionately savage recap energy.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Season Toxicity and Cast Dynamics

• Timestamps: 04:13 – 06:51
  • Ben opens by challenging the narrative that RHOC is currently "too toxic." He appreciates the cast mixture and warns not to scare Bravo into shuffling too many cast members.
  • Notable Quote – Ben (04:13):
    “If this is a ‘toxic’ situation and Bravo feels like they’ve got to make...wholesale changes...is this finally gonna be the thing that gets Gina and Emily out the door? Because...they’re not gonna go.”
  • Ronnie agrees, dubbing it a season of endless lies where only the names change – “It’s really hard to keep them all straight...What are we even talking about at this point?”

2. The Katie Controversy: Lies, Polygraphs, and Exile

• Timestamps: 06:51 – 15:54
  • The hosts summarize the convoluted web of accusations and shifting alliances leading to Katie’s ostracization.
  • Ben stresses that it’s not Katie’s lies that are unique, but the cast’s aggressive, collective shunning of her:
    "And that’s the toxicity right there. And some of you guys may lose your jobs as a result of it." (05:31)
  • Ronnie: “They’re all lying. Gretchen lies in this episode...Katie’s lies aren’t worse than theirs.”

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3. Tangent: Ronnie Wants to Befriend a Bobcat

Timestamps: 06:53 – 10:01

• Ronnie spots a baby bobcat near his home. Brief, hilarious animal tangent ensues, paralleling the social “hunger games” in Orange County.
  • Ben (07:59): “I would not...if there’s a mama, mama may come calling...it’s a wild animal, so I don’t think you should befriend it.”
  • Connects it back: making friends with wild animals = just as risky as trying to fit in with the Housewives cast.

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4. The Big Conspiracy Theory: Did Sheena Plant the Story?

Timestamps: 10:01 – 14:54

• Ben discusses a “ridiculous” online conspiracy theory suggesting that Sheena (of “Vanderpump Rules” fame) was actually the story’s source, not Katie.
  • Ben (10:33): “This is my favorite conspiracy theory...I just do not believe it at all.”
  • Ronnie and Ben agree the timelines and players are so convoluted that nobody can keep them straight, so “just try to enjoy the show.”
• They highlight Tamra’s role as both instigator and opportunist:
  • Ronnie (13:15): “Let’s concentrate on the real evil...it was Tamra who brought this on camera.”

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5. Adjudicating Who's Lying

Timestamps: 14:35 – 19:01

• Cast members’ shifting stories, historical clips, and the unreliability of memory are all lampooned.
  • Heather dodges blame; Emily and Gina are on a “righteous campaign”; Shannon is included by default, but less earnestly.
  • Focus on lie detectors—Ben and Ronnie emphasize that polygraphs are entertainment gimmicks, not evidence.
  • Ben (19:01): “Polygraphs...a proper polygraph takes like two and a half hours...You’re just not going to get anything realistic from...a short polygraph.”

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6. Testosterone Pellets, Sex Jokes, and Medical Miracles

Timestamps: 19:01 – 22:21

• Hilarious medical detour as Emily and Gretchen get testosterone implants.
  • Ronnie jokes: “What kind of drug do they need to put inside of you to want to have sex with Shane?”
  • Discussion of Slade's “broken penis”, leading to a tangent about how medicine prioritizes certain "repairs" over others.

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7. The Persian New Year Polygraph Witch Hunt

Timestamps: 22:24 – 28:46

• Emily’s Persian New Year party becomes the unofficial “let’s drive Katie off the show” event, raising questions about Housewife party ethics.
  • Ben (22:47): “I don’t think most New Year celebrations are like ‘how can we run someone off our TV show?’ But that’s what she used it for.”

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8. Housewives Logic: The Muffin That Sits Untouched at Oslo Coffee

Timestamps: 28:48 – 36:03

• Jen and Katie’s coffee sit-down is overshadowed by an untouched, glam muffin, symbolizing the show’s sometimes wasteful priorities.
  • Katie brings “receipts” including evidence the polygraph guy is a “simple actor.”
  • Ronnie (32:40): “What is simple acting? ...I could do...I can do lie detectors, or I can act like I’m doing lie detectors.”

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9. The Group Texts, Memory Holes, and Shifting Stories

Timestamps: 36:03 – 43:33

• Discussion about blurred-out texts, how production shapes storylines, and whether pivotal cast members are lying or can’t remember (or both).
• Ben and Ronnie split: Ben thinks there may be honest memory lapses; Ronnie thinks Jen is knowingly covering for the group.

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10. Gina & Brit: Heart Attacks and Word Art

Timestamps: 49:33 – 55:47

• Gina visits Brit (Matt’s partner), discusses Matt’s recent heart attack, and marvels at their co-parenting. The segment is lampooned for its emotional heavy-handedness and the omnipresent word art at Brit’s house.
  • Ronnie (50:03): “Does Matt only marry people with word art? Is it Matt’s fetish?”

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11. Reconciliation Scene: Tamra, Jen, and Heather’s Brunch

Timestamps: 55:47 – 64:27

• Tamra and Jen sit down (with Heather present) to “forgive” each other after a hurricane of accusations. The hosts mock the earnest, reality-TV cycle of “we fight, we forgive, rinse and repeat.”
  • Ben (56:28): “She [Heather] offered her a job as a housekeeper and she did not take it.”
  • Jen’s frustration and Tamra’s “therapy journey” are parsed and parodied:
    • Tamra (62:08, paraphrased by Ronnie): “That little girl in me just gets upset...Her name is Tammy Sue and she’s got hair in the shape of thimble.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ben (06:51): “They’re crucifying [Katie] for [lying]...and won’t even shoot with her to the point she has to leave the show. That’s the toxicity right there.”
• Ronnie (13:15): “Tamra has wormed it into her now being a hero of the season...And who started this whole thing? Tamra did.”
• Ben (19:01): “A proper polygraph takes like two and a half hours...You’re just not going to get anything realistic from...a short polygraph.”
• Ronnie (32:40): “What is simple acting? ...I can do lie detectors, or I can act like I’m doing lie detectors.”
• Ronnie (50:03): “Is it Matt’s fetish, at the end of the day?...He needs word art everywhere.”

Timestamps for Anchor Segments

• 04:13 – Ben questions toxicity narrative
• 10:33 – The Sheena conspiracy theory
• 14:35 – Who’s lying, and do polygraphs matter?
• 22:47 – Persian New Year as polygraph party
• 32:40 – Simple acting explanation
• 36:03 – Group texts and production interference
• 50:03 – Gina and Brit, word art, and heart attack aftermath
• 62:08 – Tamra’s therapy, “little girl” defense

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Additional Highlights

• Animal Tangent: Ronnie’s “should I befriend a bobcat?” leads to playful exchanges about the wisdom of making friends with wild creatures, both feline and human (07:04–08:22).
• Male Medical Mishaps: Penis-breaking as a metaphor for male privilege and the show’s tendency toward “medical oversharing” (20:49–21:51).
• Untouched Carbs: The fate of muffins and croissants in Housewives coffee scenes is described as a crime unto itself (29:20–29:33).

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Conclusion & Tone

This episode blends keen Housewives analysis with the hosts’ irreverent, improvisational humor. Ben and Ronnie juggle the mounting absurdities of RHOC Season 19—the lies, cast maneuvering, and off-screen consequences—while lampooning the show’s lack of self-awareness. For listeners, it’s a thorough, entertaining, and highly quotable recap, perfect for anyone who enjoys Bravo with a healthy side of shade.

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End of Part 1 Recap — “Katie-Sixed.” For Part 2, tune in to the next episode!

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[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what crappins. Watch what happens. Who cares what happens when there's so much. Who cares what happens when there's so much that crappens. Hello and welcome to Watch what Crappens, a podcast about all that crap on Bravo that we love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker and joining me today is the glorious and handsome and all around good guy, Ronnie Caram. Hi, Ronnie, how are you? You.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hi.

[Ben Mandelker]

I just want, I just want you to know, Ronnie, I will never round up everyone to chase you off of this show no matter what happens. Yes, you get to stay. I will continue to shoot with you.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thank you, my spicy little Asian.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you. We are talking about real houses of Orange County. The Internet is losing its shit. They've gone crazy. There's a lot to talk about. We're going to get into all of it. Just a reminder, we've got Crappy hour on Monday. Come join us for that. We in case you haven't seen the latest, we are kind of doing this thing where we alternate one Monday crappy hour, one Monday Amazon Live. And that's really fun. So crappy hours at 5:30 Eastern. I'm sorry, Pacific 8:30 Eastern. And then of course join us on Patreon, get access to our bonus episodes. We had so much fun doing a trailer trash of the Potomac trailer. I think we. What was that, like over an hour, Ronnie? I think it was like an hour and ten minutes.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, it was long.

[Ben Mandelker]

A two minute trailer. We spent an hour and ten minutes talking about it and dissecting it. So definitely go check that out on Patreon. And you also get access to our videos with Crap is on demand. Hello everyone out there. And if you don't want to watch our videos on Patreon after a week or so, they go onto YouTube. But you probably want to watch them fresh. So they're right there. Patreon. That's the news. And now we are going to talk about Orange County. And I've got to say, Ronnie, people are mad at this season as these dumb hookers fault. Okay? Everyone's saying this season's so toxic. This is, it's, we're getting an audience reaction like we got for New Jersey. And first of all, I want to say audience, be careful because I know we're all annoyed at this Katie situation. But like, overall I actually think that Orange county is in a really good place. I think it's like a really good cast. And like, let's not spook Bravo into doing too many things. However, if this is a quote unquote toxic situation that Bravo's like, we gotta like Shuffle some people out, I think. Is this finally gonna be the thing that gets us, Gina and Emily out the door? Because I think they'll never go. They're not gonna go.

[Ronnie Caram]

They're not gonna go. No, they're gonna keep them.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I just. I think that if heads roll because of the season, if. If, like, the perception is that things are too toxic and. And Bravo feels like they've got to make some wholesale changes. I think they did it to themselves. They did it to themselves. It's one thing, okay? Katie's a liar. She's obvious. Katie obviously lied, okay? But the fact that they are. They're crucifying her for it. And they won't even shoot with her to the point where she has to leave the show. And then that's the toxicity right there. And you guys are going to do it to yourselves. You're trying to shoot Katie off. And now some of you guys may lose your. Your jobs as a result of it. Congratulations, you idiots.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, they're all lying. Gretchen lies in this episode. I mean, Katie's lies aren't worse than theirs. And I believe Katie when she said that. Gretchen and Slade said that. So, I mean, I don't know. You know, they're just. There's so many lies in it. It's really hard to keep them all straight. There was literally a point last night where I just grabbed my head and said, what are we even talking about at this point? It's like she said this and you said this, and 12 years ago, you said this. But then they're showing a timestamp of 12 years ago, but then it's 13 years ago. And Tamara's like, but remember when I sat down with Slate and I apologized and I was like, yeah, but that was a year or this other clip where you were saying mean things. I mean, it's just my timeline. I'm exploding. My head is exploding. It's too much. It's too much, But I'm enjoying too much. Still enjoying.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

You know what? I gotta say.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Also, I have to ask you a question that has nothing to do with Orange County. I'm sorry, everybody, to derail it. Recap. So quick, go ahead. Should I befriend the baby Bobcat that's living outside?

[Ben Mandelker]

Because I really don't.

[Ronnie Caram]

Be friends. I want to be friends.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bobcat is living outside.

[Ronnie Caram]

Kitten. Is that what you call them? Kittens? Where? I saw it yesterday for the first time. I was playing piano in the window, and there was a little baby. Well, I thought it was. I Mean, I thought it was a lion. It looks like a lion. It's like a little baby. And it has spots on it. It's like, obviously pictures of it. I tried to, but it got away. I was so shocked to see it. Well, first I thought it was a mountain lion, but those don't have spots. So the only other option is bobcats. And I didn't even know we had bobcats here until we went to Ann Margaret's house, and she had a sign that says bobcat crossing. And I was like, we have bobcats. And so I looked up, do bobcats have spots? And they do, and they live in the hills. So I have a baby bobcat. But then that means there's other babies and possibly a mom protecting the baby. But.

[Ben Mandelker]

And it's not a. It's just not a kitten.

[Ronnie Caram]

No, it's not a cat. It's like a wild cat.

[Ben Mandelker]

I would not. So I would personally, I would not befriend it, because if there is a mama, mama may come calling, and I think we don't go near that. Also, I think it's a wild animal, so I don't think you should befriend it.

[Ronnie Caram]

But it's so cute.

[Ben Mandelker]

Let nature take its course. Well, get a kitten, then. I just don't.

[Ronnie Caram]

Those are in my house. I want this one outside the house. I want to be like, Monique.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I think enjoy it from outside.

[Ronnie Caram]

Have you seen Monique from Real Housewives of Potomac? She's been walking around with these little baby hummingbirds that keep coming to her and coming right to her hands and stuff. She's like, magic. Wow.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's my dream.

[Ronnie Caram]

I want to be like that. But with baby bobcats.

[Ben Mandelker]

We have hummingbirds on our patio. We have a little hummingbird feeder. And I would. I've seen people do that, and I would love. I don't know how you do that. Maybe you need to have essential oils or something. They don't come to our hands. Well, also, like, we have. There's, like, a bunch of green hummingbirds, which are sweet and lovely, but then there's this one big orange one who I've named Gill. And he just comes, and he always scares everyone away. He's, like, very territorial about the feeder. And I'm like, that's such a gill thing. Like, he's the guy in the office who just, like, walks into the break room, and everyone has to scatter. And so Gil ruins everything. So I think any chance I would ever have of, like, befriending a humble hummingbird, Gill ruins Well, but if I.

[Ronnie Caram]

Made friends with the bobcat, the bobcat could eat gill, you see, and then you'd be a. You'd have hummingbirds and I'd have a killer bobcat on my side.

[Ben Mandelker]

You're not bringing. You're not bringing the bobcat over to our patio to kill the gill. Okay, I will. I don't like. I don't like Gil, but I will protect Gil.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm not protecting Gil. Gil. Okay. You should take a picture of your.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bobcat next time you see. Have you seen it more than once?

[Ronnie Caram]

I try to. No, I just saw it yesterday. It was just like. Like walking around the hill. And I was so shocked to see it. And of course I was like, hi. You know, it's like talking to it. And it wouldn't turn around because the window was closed. But I tried to get a picture, but I just got a picture of the bush. So anyway, the point is we're at Real Housewives of Orange County, Season 19, Episode 9, which is also kind of known as befriending the bobcat because everybody decides to be nice to Tamara again, which I don't really get. But here we go.

[Ben Mandelker]

Here we go. So we start off and we see, like, the recap of. Of all the crazy stuff from last week and Katie being like, kendall, I'm done. I didn't lie. I didn't lie. I never said this. Oh, did you see the conspiracy theory from today about Katie? And what is that? Okay, this is. This one. Honestly, I think this is ridiculous. So Katie, the. The new conspiracy theory is that there is a. There's some account out there that's saying that this is somehow Sheena's fault, which.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, yes, I did see that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes, this is my favorite conspiracy theory, and I think it is 100 not true. I don't think it's pretty because Katie is doubling down. Katie clearly told Kiki. Okay, Like, Kiki has said it. I believe Kiki on this. I don't think Kiki. Like, I just don't think this is. I. I don't see why it, like, why Kiki would cover for Sheena if she heard it from Sheena. But the theory is that Sheena and Gretchen are really, really good friends. And it was Sheena who told Kiki that. That Gretchen said that she was roofied and Kate. And Kiki is saying it came from Katie. I don't think Kiki has any motivation to set up Katie in that way. It's. That's all just. It's too far fetched. Okay, I Am. I am on Katie's team. But, like, Katie is messy. She has had a history of lying throughout the season, and she just. She just didn't do it well. And she's. She just. I don't know. I. The Sheena theory, it's entertaining, but I just do not believe it at all.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, yeah, because even if she did tell Sheena and Sheena told whoever, she still told Kiki, right? Like, we know that she. She admitted that she went and hung out with Kiki and told her stuff. So I don't.

[Ben Mandelker]

But, like. But the theory is that, like, Katie didn't. Katie's not the one who said. Was that maybe Kiki got the. I guess maybe Katie's saying, like, I told her about the hospital thing, but I never said Rufy. And maybe she knows one who said Roofy. But either way, why do we keep. Why are we. Why are we also discrediting the messy Daily Mail reporter who got in the middle of all of this who's somehow not in any of, like, not in any of the online discussion, even though it was outed by. By Tamra?

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, then Tamara said that she. Tamara said the reason that she came out with it on the show was because the. Kiki told the Daily Mail and the Daily Mail told Dave Quinn, and Dave Quinn called Tamra. So that's kind of the chain that they're setting up. But at this point, like, who believes anybody on this show? I really don't. At this point. I'm just trying to calm down and enjoy the show because it's. It's too much.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's outrageous that this stupid, like, Daisy chain of gossip is something that's going to get someone, like, kicked off the show. Like, that's what's the true outrage of it. Because this is also stupid. And it's also very par for the course of, like, lies and rumors that go. Go around. And, like, this is gonna be, like, you're gonna drive someone off the show because of this when there's been, like, so much lying over the years. There have been so many worse offenses over the years, and this is what you're all gonna rally around and say, I don't feel safe. This woman.

[Ronnie Caram]

Let's concentrate on the real evil here. If we're gonna go back all the 13 years to naked Wasted. That was when they went out of their way to get Gretchen as drunk as possible to have Ryan follow her into the room. Ryan was pouring those drinks, too. And then have Ryan follow her into the bathroom and try and have sex with her and took him a long time to take the no as well. So that's kind of the crime here. And the fact that Tamara has wormed it into her now being a hero of the season because it's so funny how this show works. So you've got Tamara, who is the one who brought this on camera. No matter what you say about everybody else and who they told and who they gossiped with and who they did this to and who they blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was never brought up on the show. The one who brought it to the show was Tamara. Okay, yeah. Tamra was the one who did it. So then it got Katie villainized, and then it got Gretchen villainized, and now it's turned around to Tamara becoming friends with Katie, who's now the most popular person on the show because of all the bullying. And now that is leaking off on Tamra. So now Tamara and Katie are looking like heroes in this whole thing. And who started this whole thing in the first place? Tamra did. Tamara did. And the way that she's wormed this around to making herself kind of a hero now in the comment sections of this show is just hilarious and somewhat magical. Like, I mean, it's.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's because Dumb dumbs.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's crazy.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's because you got two dum dums in the mix, Emily and Gina, who of like, they. They're on this righteous campaign and it's blown up in their faces because honestly, I don't.

[Ronnie Caram]

Although Heather's been good about not letting it blow up in her face. But Heather's way behind this, too.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think Heather. I mean, Heather's. I don't think. I think Heather is just like. I don't think Heather has not liked Katie since last year when Katie came for her. And, you know, Heather's like, well, you know, I don't know if Heather would have been like, I'm not going to shoot with her. But Emily and Gina are on the righteous campaign. They're the ones who seem to be on a righteous. And Shannon, too. But Shannon's also like, that's just Shannon. No. No one would. No one really ever takes Shannon's righteousness seriously. But Emily and Gina, I feel like, are really aggressively against Katie, despite anytime.

[Jen]

Gina's like, I really can't feel. I was, like, really trying to make it happen. I was, like, really trying to give you a shot.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's like, no, you really weren't. You. You can say that you weren't. And it's. And if anything, if you have to Blame one person. I really blame Emily. I think Emily has gone above and beyond. She arranged an entire polygraph party just to bust this girl. And it's. I don't know what my point was. I think I'm just ranting. Just. I'm just going for it. You know, Emily's stupid. That's. That's the. That's the conclusion of today's episode.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, gosh. Okay, so we start in Emily's living room, and they're still talking about the lie detectors. Flashbacks from last week. She failed every single question. And bangs the examiner. Bangs is like, yeah, your body reacts to questions in a different way when you're lying. Yeah, we get it. You're also a paid actress, and we know very poorly paid. I would assume bangs. Shut up over there. And also, you're a bad actress because no lie detector is like, that lady's lying her ass off. You are. Shame on you. Well, I hope you are being shamed in the lie detector community that you're not even a part of.

[Ben Mandelker]

Really. I hope you go from the polygraph community to the monograph community, because it's just gonna be one of you poly bangs. I know people be polybags. I know people would be very interested in us actually starting this recap. But guess what? I've got something else to say, which is that in the wake of all this, there was a lot of discussion about how polygraphs, like, a proper polygraph takes, like, two and a half hours. And, like, you're just not going to get anything realistic from, like, the short. A short polygraph. I don't know how long they were up there, but it definitely looked like people were up there for 20 minutes, maybe. And, like, you can do a targeted polygraph that's, like, about a very specific, narrow range of questions, but even that's gonna take a while.

[Ronnie Caram]

But even though we know that it's bullshit from what we've seen on the show, without even knowing that this guy's been on a million shows, rents out his services, blah, blah, blah. Everything that is brought up later in the show by Katie, we know for a fact that it's bullshit, because we saw Gretchen lie in it, and no one even cares. Like, Gretchen lied in it and she passed the test. So we know that the test is full of shit. You know, even disregarding everything we know about the current justice system, where these are not even admissible in a court of law because they're full of shit. And Emily, who's working for the Innocence Project, trying to get innocent people out of Prison still, like, sitting there, you know, waving the flag for a polygraph is ridiculous. Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

People were talking about that online that, like. Like, polygraphs are known to, like, really not be reliable and are often used, you know, against people. And if you're on. And yet she's like, she should know this. As someone who's an advocate for the Innocence Project, that's, like, a big thing that people were talking about.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So Tamara's like, well, and you wanted.

[Jen]

I thought you did say that you went to the hospital. Crazy. Maybe when we were in the car, we were driving to see crocodiles or something. I think you said that you meant to see. You went to the hospital, something. Don't you remember?

[Ronnie Caram]

She's like, no. And then we see the flashback where Gretchen says in the back of that car, well, the next day, yes, I.

[Jen]

Did go to the hospital.

[Ronnie Caram]

Trying to whisper it behind the seat. And she's like, cause I was so sick. And she's like, no, I said that I was sick. I should have gone to the hospital. That's what I said. And Shannon's like, well, that doesn't mean that you were roofied if you went to the hospital. I mean, I'd go to the hospital. That doesn't mean I've been. Have I been roofie? Maybe I have been roofie. I don't know. Are we face good?

[Ben Mandelker]

So after we get the flat, after we're done with, like, the flashbacks of what happened last week, we then land in a really exciting scene, which is Emily and Gretchen getting testosterone injections. So they're here at this. At. At. At A Sandra, Maryland. And Emily's like, this is the appointment that Shane always has on the calendar. Like, don't forget your testosterone appointment, because I've been getting testosterone implants. So it's like this right. Size thing that they stick in your butt and, like, not in your butthole. Let me clarify. I'm hilarious. And it just makes a world of difference. My workouts are better, and I want to have sex with Shane.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, my God. What are they putting up there? Fucking Molly. What kind of drug do they need to put inside of you to want to have sex with Shane? I get the bio T, which is what they're talking about, these little testosterone pills. I just got mine last week.

[Ben Mandelker]

Week.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's why I'm talking like this this week. Hi, everybody. Welcome. Yeah, so I get those twice a year. I just got mine last week. And I can guarantee you right now, I do not want to have sex with Shane, okay? So I don't know what kind of magic pill they're putting up her ass, but nothing is that strong.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So then. And then Gretchen is talking about how she. She's like.

[Jen]

She's like, yeah, testosterone is great because all you want to do is I have sex all day long.

[Ben Mandelker]

And then she's like talking about how Louisiana Flashback of how she broke Slade's penis because she wanted to have sex too much. But then she also explains that there is a machine that will straighten the penis after it is bent. So, like, really, it's just so many medical. Medical miracles that we learn about on this show.

[Ronnie Caram]

I didn't even know all this stuff could happen to wieners that you could break on.

[Ben Mandelker]

I did know about this.

[Ronnie Caram]

You did know about broken wieners?

[Ben Mandelker]

My friend was dating a guy with a broken penis and it was a. It was an issue. Yeah, yeah. Like, if you, like about that, like, you could get it, like, because it could like. Yeah, because it's like when stiff, it could kind of get kind of like think about like a straw, you know, if you like, you break a straw or like, you know, or like a piece.

[Ronnie Caram]

All the turtles have this washed up with penises sticking out all over their face. They're like, stop everywhere. I mean, stop. Penises are killing the turtles. You don't. Don't make me think about straws. I'm still upset.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, so. But you can fix it. You can fix it. And that's great to know. So Slate is back up and running.

[Ronnie Caram]

How can you fix a broken wiener? But I've had the same. Same stock for two months and had surgery on it. I mean, the world is just not fair, really. I'm gonna go get a penis put in my eye. It's gonna have a penis sticking out of my eye.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, yeah. Because when it comes to men's sexual health or just health in general, there. That there will be a priority to fund research on that. Don't you worry.

[Ronnie Caram]

Like, who needs your eyes? Let's get his penis working.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay. Do you have any broken penises? There probably are in Congress right now. They have mass tracked all the research on that.

[Ronnie Caram]

You'll need your eye. You can just feel around with your penis. Okay, so, yeah, we get to hear about Slade's broken wiener. And then Gretchen still is talking about his wiener. I do not want to hear about Slade or Shane and their sex. I just don't want to hear about it.

[Ben Mandelker]

So don't need to know.

[Ronnie Caram]

Emily is like, so after my Persian New Year party, I hope that Katie's gone You're such a monster for making a Persian New Year party is such a trash event. Shame on you. Especially with your father in law in the hospital and you're supposed to be celebrating Persian. Would your, would your Persian father in law be happy that you're using this to ostracize my spicy Asian? How dare you?

[Ben Mandelker]

That's right. Yeah, no, it is pretty shitty. I don't know enough about Persian New Year to know like what it symbolizes and etc. Etc. Etc. But like, it seems like across the board, most cultures New Year's are like, let's celebrate, coming together, moving forward, opening new chapters, yada yada. I don't think, like, I don't think most New Year celebrations are like how can we run someone off of our TV show? But that's what she used it for. Although I guess we should maybe circle back to Shah's Sunset because they had some pretty toxic moments.

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, Ronnie, you're totally right. For instance, like, aside from my cute, adorable little table, there's, like, plenty of outdoor tailgating. Things like coolers and grills and folding chairs and patio heaters, things like that.

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

That'S W-A-Y-F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Gretchen is like, yeah, as far as.

[Jen]

I'm concerned, I'm not gonna be around if she's around.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Emily's like, yeah, in the end, like, you and Tamara had, like, a long hug, so remember, which, by the way, I love Gretchen, okay? Being around Tamra. But God forbid, Katie, Katie says this thing to Kiki, Monique, about a passing comment about something that happened 14 years ago. You will not film whatsoever. That's where she draws the line. Come on, give me a break. Give me a break, Gretchen.

[Ronnie Caram]

So we see a clip of this, this long hug, and Tamara is saying, thank you.

[Jen]

Thank you so much, Gretchen, for taking the time and going to meet with Kiki. She's like, yeah, well, I needed to because I needed to know for myself. Well, thank you. Thank you for getting to the bottom of the grizzly. Come here. Give me a hug, my little friend. Now. I'm so sorry you was dragged into this, you know, after I, you know, got you wasted and had my son follow you into the bathroom, then had me try to have sex with you and stuff for fun so you could look like the cheating snatch that you are. Thank you. Thank you for the vindication. Gr. That was, like, very interesting that she was like, thank you for, like, going and finding out the truth. And, like, I appreciate that you saying that, but I was also like, this wasn't even for you. This is for me.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So Gretchen is saying again something she said about 9 million times over the years.

[Jen]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the hug was sincere. And then we can maybe, you know, like, you know, I don't Know, I just hope I could trust it.

[Ronnie Caram]

However, then we're back in the waiting room and she's like, you know, I want to ask Katie if she even feels remorse. And Emily's like, here's what we need to do. We need to do a beach party. Then we see a flashback to Jen saying, guys, I just thank you so much for answering my call. I just have a great idea. I want to have a party. A party in a public place, a beach or something that I'm have to, you know, cook or clean or cater. I don't know. I was hoping it's between a parking lot and a beach, but I don't want to have the same. I don't want to have a party in the same location that my gym was located. So beach it is.

[Ben Mandelker]

I love this innovative idea for a Real Housewives of Orange county doing something on the beach. They've never really done that before. So Emily is like, can we get a handle where our minds are right now and put it all out there and just like try to reconcile that? Because I just would love for Tamara and Gretchen to just have a conversation or I don't care, go into boxing ring and beat the shit out of each other. I mean, I just feel like there's like all these grievances from 12 years ago that we keep on reliving and can we hope it's. Can we just like hop to 2025, please? Grievances from 12 years ago. You're the one who has been rolling around in the grievances like a pig in mud. You know, like, what was this whole Katie thing about in the first place?

[Ronnie Caram]

You're married to your grievance from 12 years ago. Shut up.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So back to the waiting room. You're married to Shane, for crying out loud. So we go back to the waiting room again and it's time to get their rice in their butts, their little rice sized pellets. So I mean, that's, that's really it. They get, they get their injections.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So then we go.

[Ben Mandelker]

Injections.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So then we go to Oslo Coffee Company and Jen's there. And now it's a big meeting with Katie and Jen. Dun, dun dun. And I just want to say all I could concentrate on was the giant muffin sitting in the middle of the table that no one was going to touch. And I just knew it was happening. And I was like, look how much that muffin has put into its look today. It looks like so delicious. Yeah, it's been in glam for, like, hours it was prepped. I mean, multiple people worked on this muffin, and these ladies are just going to treat it with total disregard.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's almost as bad as last season when when Gina and Jen had to sit down in a coffee shop and Gina ordered the world's largest croissant and didn't even bite it. And then she stormed out without even having her croissant. I was so mad for months after that.

[Ronnie Caram]

Disgusting behavior.

[Ben Mandelker]

It really is disgusting.

[Ronnie Caram]

This from you people. Carbs deserve respect, you know, they certainly do.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Kitty and Jen sit down, very serious, and Jen. Katie puts on her purse, and Jen's like, oh, I literally thought you, like, walked up with, like, receipts or something. And Kitty's like, oh, I have them. I have some very, very strong receipts that will fully exonerate me. 100. Just brace yourself for what I've got coming to you. Just get ready.

[Jen]

Okay, great.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'd love to see it. So. So Katie pulls out her envelope and she's like, well, this is just so hard. I mean, you know, I've had so many conversations about our lives. Oh, Jen's. I'm sorry, Jen's saying that. She's saying we just had so many conversations about our lives, about pasts, about the future, about Ryan's paint splatter denim jackets. Just so many thoughts about that stuff. I just feel like, what am I missing? And then I sit here after a stupid lie detector test and, like, did you even pass any? Like, what am I missing? Jen asking what she's missed is hilarious. Because to be fair, I think she asked that after every conversation, which she has with every single person she has in her entire life.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, it reminds me of that Golden Girls where Betty White said what I miss, and Dorothy says, just the boat, dear. So Jen's like, yeah, Kitty's been such a loyal friend to me, you know, such a good friend. But now I look at all those conversations and I think, were those all lies, too? What do you mean? Were they all lies? When she sat there listening to you sob about your ex or sob about your current or sob about your children or how are those lies? Stop being a follower, Jen. So back. Oh, Jen's having a real meltdown on social media these days. I heard.

[Ben Mandelker]

I heard that she's having a meltdown. What's going on with her? I haven't actually looked into it.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's basically commenting, like, you know what if you guys. How about instead of hating me, you just go over to Katie's page and you sent her love? Because I'm so sick of this race crap. I can't even. This is ridiculous. This is even about RA. She's just like, just stay off social media, Jen. You're making this worse for yourself.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay?

[Ronnie Caram]

Coming on and being like, I'm sick of this race crap. Not. Not great, Jen. All right, so which we'll. We'll go into more of that on Crappy Hour. I'll bring the videos and stuff. So Katie is like, do you want to see something? I have it in a manila envelope. And she's like, oh, no, I don't eat anything with vanilla in it, including that muffin. Please do not make me read the muffin. She's like, no, no, it's manila. It's kind of an envelope. So did you know that the guy they hired is a paid actor? And she pulls out a piece of paper and she's like, this is Wendy. Wendy, who works for him. This is all on his website, by the way. He tells you all these different things that you can book him for, and some he can do simple acting. What do you think about that? Well, Heather Dubrow does very simple acting, and she's had a job here for years. I don't know we're allowed to hold that against people.

[Ben Mandelker]

What is simple acting? What is. It's just like. Is that basically, like, you go on to TV and then they give you lines of what you're supposed to say to the people, and then you like. I don't know what simple acting is.

[Ronnie Caram]

I could do something just means, like, I can be. I can do lie detectors, or I can act like I'm doing lie detectors. Whatever you need me to do.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, I cannot do Chekhov, but if you need me to read some lines from, you know, like, Empty Nests, I can do that.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's like, yeah, I'll give you a couple of lines from Different Strokes, but nothing from like, Sam, why can't I think of his.

[Ben Mandelker]

If you need me to. If you. Yeah, Sam, I know you're talking about Shepherd. If you. He's like, if you need me. It's like, if you need me to be in your infomercial audience and reacting to a product, I can do that. If you need me to do Tennessee Williams, I cannot do that.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's like, do you want me to pretend I'm driving a car? Great. Sit me in a fake car and I'll drive it. Do you want me to improvise driving a car? That is much more difficult. I don't do that. It's difficult Acting.

[Ben Mandelker]

So I like the idea that, like, the implication that, like, maybe he's been accidentally called in to an audition for, like, Fences, and he's like, unfortunately, I can be in an infomercial about Fences, but I can't be in Fences.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I need simpler acting. Yeah, I'm from the school.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, someone saw him, was like, get this guy in. We need him in our place. I'm. I'm sorry. I'm just not qualified for your production.

[Ronnie Caram]

Very difficult. They're like, sir, will you be an extra in Avatar? He's like, that is a lot of makeup. That is difficult acting.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Ronnie Caram]

Needs simple. Simple.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's crossing a line. It's crossing. I have to speak with my union representative. I'm in. I'm in sasag, which is simple sag. I'm in simple sag. Aftra. This may violate our union's rules.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Katie tells her, yeah, this guy's an actor and he can do simple acting. And. Okay, you know what? This is fucked up. Okay, is it fucked up that she's telling you this, or is it fucked up that they just hired an actor to do the part? Like, what, are you mad at me? Do you even know what you're mad about? Jen. Jen just came in here ready to be pissed.

[Ben Mandelker]

She was about to offer him a role in Edward Albee play. This is fucked up. I didn't know he was a simple actor. I thought he was a regular actor. This is really fucked up.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I think I was set up by Gina and Emily. Did you notice every single question was a setup? And she goes, no. I mean, every question was a question to see if you were lying. You know, I think that's the point.

[Ben Mandelker]

Never asked Jen if she noticed something. Okay, don't ask Jen that question. There's only one answer to it. No, I didn't notice that. So, yeah, we see that. They are all. I mean, all the questions are. You know, we see this flashback of Emily's saying, everyone ask a question that you want to know about each woman. And what we're gonna do is take a lie detector test. And nobody has to do this if they don't want to. So Jen's like, well, I mean, I can't take this evidence back to the women. They're going to think it's preposterous. Katie's like, well, if you don't believe me, that's okay. And to be fair, I just don't think this is strong enough. This is to say it's too conspiratorial to Say these are actors and Emily paid them to recite these lines. It's just. It's just not going to. Even if it were true, it's just not. It's not going to convince these dumb dumbs.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I mean, it looked like a setup to me. I would just have. I mean, I. I say get the men involved at this point because Matt was there, Ryan was there, and Slade was there. So I say get them involved because Matt's sitting there also insisting that he heard it multiple times. And then we have all the calls from Slade. So I say it's time to just bring everybody in and get the truth out.

[Ben Mandelker]

And note, by the way, this is jumping forward a little bit, but, you know, people were taking screenshots of. There's a scene that we're going to get to very shortly about how Matt's reading texts from Slade and all of Slade's text messages are blurred out. So does that mean that Slade did not give, like, Bravo the authority to show the clearance to show his text, his Texas, which.

[Ronnie Caram]

Why would you have to give clearance if you've already given clearance that you're going to be on the show? Do they need clearance to show your text, too?

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know, but I think that's fishy. I think that's.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, that is.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think if it's. If it would be. If it were. Would be exonerating. I think you should. You.

[Ronnie Caram]

I think it's probably because they were talking about production because Matt said in an interview that he did this week, he went on Stu's podcast and he was saying that Slade said, hey, you know, you're. You better watch your wife because she's saying all this shit and production is pissed. They don't want this stuff coming back up again. And that's why Gretchen and Slate are lying about it, because they don't want to get in trouble with production by bringing up Naked Wasted again because they want to pretend that never happened. So he's.

[Ben Mandelker]

So that might be blurred out.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So Slade is calling you, telling him, you know, production's pissed. And I've got Alex Baskin on the other line right now, and he's extremely pissed off about this. You keep your wife in line and tell her to lie about it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is exactly what we predicted was. Was that it was not so much that Gretchen was afraid of. Of lawsuits, it was that Gretchen was afraid of the wrath of Alex Baskin and Bravo. Yeah, but that would make sense. Okay, so that makes sense why it'd be blurred out because Production actually does not want to show that. They don't want. They don't want to. They don't want to break the fourth wall that much.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, they don't want to make themselves look terrible. So then we see. So Jen's like, well, I'm. I'm trying to believe you. I mean, I'm sitting here listening to you. And so we see flash of these questions. And then Katie's like, well, Gretchen told us the story about naked wasted. And then she said, the next morning, I went to the hospital, they did a toxicology report, and they found something in my blood. She said that, and I will die on that. She goes, no, she said she felt like she needed to go to the hospital. She's like, well, that's how she's twisting it. Jen, come on. I actually believe Katie here. I believe her.

[Ben Mandelker]

I believe. I believe Katie. I. I believe that this is a. An honest misunderstanding with Jen. I believe there is room for the idea that Jen is not remembering at all. I. I cannot tell you how many little gaps in stories I don't remember anymore. Okay. Like, I would not be surprised if Jen was not fully paying attention. If Jen heard it, doesn't remember parts of it. And so her truth is that it was not said, but I don't know if that is the truth. No, I don't think that she's lying. You think she's covering?

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, I think she's straight up lying. Yeah. Because I think at the dinner they said it, and then when. First of all, this is kind of Katie's fault for going and running and telling a blogger. She shouldn't have done that. Right. If you're at a private dinner. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes, Katie is totally culpable.

[Ronnie Caram]

Katie shouldn't have done that. But I think that because she did that. And Gretchen. If Gretchen. And if Gretchen and Slade. If Slade called the husband Matt and said, don't do. Don't say anything about this because production is piss. We need to toe the line and say that Gretchen never said it. Then obviously they said that to Jen too. And Jen is choosing to stay with production and Gretchen because Katie never should have run to a blogger in the first place. So I think in her mind, she's not doing the wrong thing because Katie never should have run and told stuff from dinner in the first place. So I think in her mind, she. The Katie's still in the wrong because she went to the blogger, so she doesn't care. She doesn't see it as this big, huge lie. But yeah, I think that Gretchen Slade said it. And I think Jen's lying because they agreed to lie, and Katie broke the pact by going to the blogger at the first place. So I think that's how she's reconciling in her mind. She's like, again. And I mean, to this drama. I didn't do this. She's. She did this to herself.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Jen could be lying. I guess it's more like I could also see a world where she just doesn't remember because it's Jen. Now I will have to say I'm just sort of, like, going back a few beats because I. I feel like getting mad at Gina and Emily again. And I just. I just feel like it's. It's. I've gone five minutes without doing it, and I need to do it again. So the sequence of events. Tamara says this thing. Gretchen did not. Gretchen denies that she ever said it. Jen. I'm sorry. Katie denies that she ever told Kiki. Monique that. So Kitty does tow the line for a while. They're all towing the line. Tamara storms off. Right? Storms off. And it's pretty much dead at that point.

[Ronnie Caram]

Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, at that point, Tamara is the bad guy. The. The people who resurrected it. Remind me if I'm wrong, because guess what? I don't remember the full timeline, which is proof that people don't remember things. But the time after that, it was. It was. It was Emily and Gina who reached out to Kiki to get to the bottom of it.

[Ronnie Caram]

Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, no. Because Gina called. Gina called.

[Jen]

I'm reputable journalists.

[Ben Mandelker]

Right. Gina went and continued looking this up. So Gina is the one who also. I think there's blood on Gina's hands because this was done and it was dead. And. And Katie was being good. Gina was determined to get to the bottom of this. And, like, for what? For. To what end? The reason why is because she's addictive.

[Ronnie Caram]

Because Gina. Katie. Yeah. And they want to get her off, so.

[Ben Mandelker]

Exactly. And I think that's shitty.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. This. It is, of course, shitty. But she. But you know, Katie is still lying. Is still saying that she didn't tell.

[Ben Mandelker]

Katie is still lying.

[Ronnie Caram]

But.

[Ben Mandelker]

But Gina is the one who actually asks. I'm gonna. Just let me be mad at Gina. Okay? Just let me have a workaround here. Let me have a mental workaround. Gina contributed to the escalation of. This is what I'm trying to say. Yes. Because I personally think, really, at the end of the day, that Katie should not have said this to Kiki. But I also think that Katie, I know we talked about this last week. Like, how. What was the intentionality behind this? And maybe we should ask Kiki this. I, I would not be surprised if Katie brought this up because it was like, well, this was the thing that happened, you know, 14 years ago. And like, isn't this funny? Isn't this crazy? Like, why would. It's shocking because Gretchen's coming on the show and like, I mean, Tamara's been awful to Gretchen all these years. I mean, she even tried to like drug her all those years ago. It's like a tiny thing that now gets brought back with such a huge outsized level of importance. And I think that Gina contributed to that because it could have been dead. And Gina decided to keep, keep sticking her nose in it and making it a whole thing and then to the level where it becomes a polygraph. And now this woman's not even on the show anymore.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So Katie's like, well, Jen, I sat there yesterday, I looked at you and you were like, don't look at me. And she goes, well, yeah, because, I mean, you light fires and you just want to say, jen knows Jen was there and like, you want to validate through me and Katie and I, I don't know what the you're talking about, you know, and it took, you know, and she's basically saying, you can't keep dragging me into your drama over and over and expecting me to fight your battles. Like, you started this. I'm not doing it. Like, I'm not doing it. Sorry. And so she felt like she was thrown under the bus by Katie. So then we see a flashback to the hot pot. We see all these examples of Katie doing this basically to Gina where she's like, well. Or to Jen where she's like, gina, Jen heard it. Jen heard it. Jen heard it. And Jen's like, oh, I'm not gonna fight your fights for you. Stop dragging me into this shit.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Here comes one right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, my God, the boats are beautiful. They're so modern. The rooms are just so luxurious. I love all the colored lighting in there and the balconies.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

Learn [e-mail] or contact your travel advisor. So Jen, you know, Jen's, like, sick of all this stuff. So Jen's like, you know, you hear things or you make things up. It doesn't validate it to be true because you throw my name into it. Stop doing that, please. And by the way, thank you so much for thinking me in those moments. It's really an honor, but please stop doing it. So Katie is like, well, I mean, I don't know, like, you want blood. I don't know what to give you. I'm not lying. I am definitely not lying. I'm like, I don't know, Katie. I'm on your side, don't get me wrong. But.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I believe about this. I believe her about this Slayton Gretchen thing. But Jen's like, well, I'm sitting here telling you it's messy around you and you have to take accountability. And she goes, but I take accountability for when I'm wrong. But I'm not on this. I'm not guilty. And Jen just says, well, that tells me everything I need to know. Goodbye. And so she's done with her. So, yeah, I think it's.

[Ben Mandelker]

I believe. For the. I believe her with the Gretchen thing. I just want to clarify. It's more like Jen has lied so much in the past. It's like. It's just hard. Like, she just keeps on saying, I'm not lying. It's like, baby, you've. You're really. I'm sorry, Katie. You really sort of, like, painted.

[Ronnie Caram]

You've got the Ronnie disease. You're just gonna call everybody? Just calling everybody. I'm like, kyle is such a liar, you guys. Ronnie, that show's not even back on the area.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so Jen's Like I've been waiting for something to give me an answer, like, where am I with this friendship? Like, why does this keep happening? She doesn't stand there and say, I've been lying. Trust me when I tell you I would have remembered if Tamara had drugged Gretchen and she went to the hospital. Katie lied to me the whole time, and that just doesn't work for me anymore. But, like, I don't know. I just. I don't know Jen. I just feel like Jen is. I don't know what Jen wants.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, well, here's the thing that I think is confusing because Jen's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but we. We haven't caught Jen in a lie yet. Right. That I've seen on the show or that I can remember on the show. I don't think we. I don't think anyone's really caught Jen lying. No, no.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's just been around like, Ryan is also no angel. Right. Like, we. We sense that Ryan has been up to shifty business. And I think that Jen is. I don't know. I don't know if she's always the best. I don't. Honestly, I don't even know.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I guess we have seen her lie because she was having an affair with Ryan and she said that they weren't having an affair. And Tamara's like, but they were fucking in the parking lot. And she's like, but that. But that wasn't. I mean, we were waited till the divorce came through, so I guess we have.

[Ben Mandelker]

But we're having a conversation in the car.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but I mean, things that we think are a lie, but I guess that, you know, that wouldn't be in the group. That wouldn't be group dynamic lying or whatever. That would be like private life lying. So I'm not sure if you would count that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So anyway, they're. They're done. And Katie's crying. Jen leaves. And Jen's. Katie's like, you can God the white girl names on this show. Like, seriously, I'm just getting.

[Ben Mandelker]

I really. I whipped myself up into such a frenzy about that Gina rant I had about two minutes ago that I really, literally, I've been. I've been short circuiting ever since. Like, I'm like. I'm like. And then Jen. And then Jen said this and I'm like, wait, what? What. What's my point? Why am I. I'm like, now I'm angry at everything for no reason. I'm like. And then Jen, she picked up her coffee and I'm like, jen, you don't even know how to pick up coffee. Like, wait, no, look, I'm doing it too.

[Ronnie Caram]

And I don't even have rage today. I'm just. It's just the utter brain melt of this show. It's like she lied about this, but she didn't lie about that. And then that girl lied about this, but she may not be lying about this. And then Gretchen probably lied about that. Slade definitely lying, but then Gretchen might not be lying. Maybe Gretchen didn't hear, but Tamara's lying, but she's not lying about that. It's just so much trying to keep who's lying and who's not lying. And then they're bringing in shit from 13 years ago, and it's just. It's a brain melting fucking episode. So basically Katie goes, okay, well, you should go. And she goes, okay, well, I mean, I guess keep me updated. And she goes, I mean, whatever the fuck that means.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So now Gina goes over to. At this point, right? So Gina goes over to Britt's house. Brit is Matt's wife or girlfriend or whatever, and they basically like fake Kelly Dodd. And Britt's like, I almost wore a jean dress today, which is exciting. And he's like, really?

[Jen]

Oh, my God. We would have been like twinnies.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which I think that would be. My nightmare in life is to find out that I was twinning with Gina. No. Oh, no. I've got to burn my wardrobe.

[Ronnie Caram]

They are kind of 20s, though, because did you notice the word art when the. Yes, they showed a close up of word art. And I was like, I guess we're at Gina's house. But it turns out it was Brit's house. Does Matt only marry people with word art? Is it Matt's fetish? At the end of the day, I.

[Ben Mandelker]

Feel like we need a word kink. Words everywhere. He actually is, like, lost in the kitchen. He needs. He needs. He doesn't understand rooms, so he needs to have signs that say kitchen and things.

[Ronnie Caram]

And I think this one was intense. It was like, bless this home. The home of Mac and cheese. The home of children with smiles, flowers in the sunshine, toasters and toast. It's like, could you make a shorter word art? I don't have nine hours to stand here before I walk into your home and read. This is.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, Shell Silverstein. Okay, so, yeah, so Brit is. Brits offers drinks and everything, like coffee and all that stuff. And so Gina's saying, like, my relationship.

[Jen]

With Brit is, like, amazing. Like, I really feel like, like, we parent Together. And it, like, allows me to have, like a career and chase dreams. So finally, at long last, because of Brit, I'm able to chase my dream of selling two bedroom houses to old people. Finally, I'm living like, it's proof that.

[Ronnie Caram]

We have, like an amazing relationship.

[Jen]

Let me show you some tick tocks we've made.

[Ronnie Caram]

And so we'd see tick tocks of them dragging each other across the floor. I'm not really, not really sure what that. What that sub genre is on tick tock, but, you know, whatever. So things that I wouldn't be able to do without four parents fully committed. So then Gina is talking about how things happened with Matt. Guys, Matt had a heart attack.

[Ben Mandelker]

Pretty shocking. So he had a heart attack. And Gina is like. We see a flashback to her having dinners, like, having drinks with Shannon and Heather. And she's like, you guys, I went.

[Jen]

Straight from New Orleans to Cabo and then the next morning had a heart attack.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they're like, oh, that is so crazy. Maybe almost as crazy as Terry having a stroke and driving angrily through Beverly Hills. I guess I kind of did the spousal scary thing first, didn't I? And mine was more wealthy because mine involved a luxury car.

[Ronnie Caram]

Heather made me laugh with almost every line she said in this episode because she's just so ridiculous. I think she's just so happy to not be in any drama. She's just like, look at me. Fun Heather reacting to things and she's never reacting the right way. Gina goes, matt had a heart attack. And Heather goes, that is so crazy.

[Ben Mandelker]

She could have just heard my girlfriend.

[Ronnie Caram]

Guys, I found. I found a half off price deal on a Birkin, you know, wow, crazy.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Gina's like, I just can't imagine.

[Jen]

Brit, like, if you didn't take the hospital, like, you saved his life. Like, if you didn't do that, would be like, literally dead right now. Like, he would be like, gone. Like the guy that you live with, that you love, you'd be gone, not even there. Brit.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm like, can you just, like, ease up there a little bit? Gina, Like, I think Britt understands what would have happened. She's sitting here in a puddle of tears and Gina's like, I mean, he.

[Jen]

Would have died, G. Oh, he would have died, Brit.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, yeah, like, literally, like, I was.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thinking of Matt dying and I was like, oh, my God, like, I might have to have a conversation with my kids about their dad dying. And you saved me from having to do that. Gina, selfish ass is like, thank you so much. For saving me from having to have a conversation with my kids about their dad being dead.

[Jen]

So Gina no Brit like beast mode down to the hospital and like they had to get like a st in his heart because it was like 100% collapse and it was so nice.

[Ben Mandelker]

Cuz the hospital wrote on the stage stand.

[Jen]

So it was so nice.

[Ben Mandelker]

He loves a word now he has word on in his heart, literally.

[Jen]

And he was having like a full blown heart attack. And as soon as they got the stint in like the, the danger wore down. It was like a good wake up call and he needs to be healthy.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is by the way, really scary. And I was like, check. I was like feeling my heart. I was like, am I safe? So then Gina is saying like this.

[Jen]

Dan Stan is sort of like Katie's time on the Housewives.

[Ronnie Caram]

It was a stand less stint is what I said. Oh, bless.

[Ben Mandelker]

I thought he said what is a stint?

[Ronnie Caram]

No, it's like the word art on his stint. Bless the stint. So this is like what you realize like having like a functional family like.

[Jen]

That comes into play because like, like.

[Ronnie Caram]

If there was any between any of that, that wouldn't have been the same thing. Like this crisis was so eye opening to me because like it could be more opposite with travel in his ex.

[Jen]

You know what I mean?

[Ronnie Caram]

Like if he had a heart attack. No would take him to the hospital. You know what I mean?

[Ben Mandelker]

So Matt walks in and Gina, Gina's saying that this really lights. Lights a fire under her to get Travis to his divorce so she can marry him and like take care of the kids in case something were to happen to him.

[Jen]

And then Gina's like, yeah, I got you a gift.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, really? Is this for me?

[Jen]

He's like, yeah, I got like real like a real sweetie after like I get real sweet after like life threatening situation. So like look at like what you.

[Ben Mandelker]

So he, she's given him like a care package of like a Mediterranean cookbook, the Mediterranean diet cookbook, and like some aspirin. And he's like, great, thanks, thanks. Like I was hoping for a fun care package, but thanks for reminding me of the rest of my life now. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So then Hamra. Hamra, that's Heather and Tamara's couple name. Hamra. Heather and Tamara meet up at a restaurant and they're talking about what the hell happened at the lie detector test.

[Jen]

Tamara's like, I couldn't even sleep last night. I'm like, what the hell happened? I'm like, what the hell happened? So much happened. And you Know what I was thinking?

[Ronnie Caram]

And Heather's like, well, I've really tried with Katie this year. Really? Look at how good I've been to Katie. Do you remember that time I sat down with Katie to try and get information to use to hold against her later? That was just so good of me to do. I've really tried with her, but I just can't do it anymore.

[Ben Mandelker]

I offered her a job as a housekeeper and she did not take it. So Tam, I like that Tamara said that she couldn't sleep last night because she was on a high from adrenaline, which is so Tamara to see someone, like, run off of a show. And like, she's like, best night of the year. Like, that's like, what she lives for is someone, like, being the victim of a gang up. Like that. That's spe speaks to Tamara's villainy right there. So Heather. Heather is. She's sorry. Jen arrives and she's like, hi, everyone. I brought stuff. I brought stuff. Oh, do we need a cocktail for this? Because it's just me with my girlfriends. Okay. We can get cosmos. Okay. What? Who here is the carry. Who is this? Samantha. I'll be the Blanche. Like, okay, Heather, it's like, stop trying to be so the fun Heather right now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Fun girlfriend Heather, let's order something fun. I'm going to have a Paloma. Paloma? Exotic, fine, fruity.

[Ben Mandelker]

You mean like a tequila? A tequila with grapefruit? No, Paloma is the name of one of my cleaners and I was hoping to have a second one. Can we. Can we hire another Paloma for the house? No. Okay.

[Ronnie Caram]

She actually messed up on the laundry, so I was hoping you could pick her up and blend her down so I could drink her DNA.

[Ben Mandelker]

So they order their cocktails and everything? Well, actually, Jen asks about the strawberry margarita and like, the waitress is like, it's delicious. And Heather's like, has anyone ever asked you something and you say, don't get that. God, I'm so fun. Look at me. Interfacing with service workers in a pleasant way. I have grown.

[Ronnie Caram]

If you want to see fun Heather, let me call out a service worker for being the fake bitch that she is.

[Ben Mandelker]

And so, yeah, so she has. Thank you so much. So I met with Katie and right when she sat down, she was like, that whole thing was staged.

[Jen]

What? The paragraph was a setup?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And she's being set up. And she's the one that we're all. We're all picking to. To. To do this to that. They're okay.

[Jen]

They.

[Ben Mandelker]

Those people were not for entertainment. Trust me, if they ever tried to get onto TV land, they would not get through the front door. Those are not entertainment people.

[Ronnie Caram]

So the polygraph people work on tv? Well, guess what? My husband is a world renowned TV doctor in real life. So do you want to take pictures and put him in your file? Oh, okay, okay. So you're saying the polygraph person is super real. Then what about you lying about paparazzi shots? Because he also said that. Or we just gonna forget all your lies? Madame?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes, we will. Don't you unders. Okay, so the polygraph people work on tv. They can't be trusted. Well, last time I checked, I was on an episode of Malibu country with Reba McIntyre. Does that mean you can't trust me? Television's Heather Dubrow? I think not. Oh, that was good adjudication. So Tamara's like, well, I don't know what.

[Jen]

I don't know anything about that. I've never met these people before.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Jen was saying how this whole thing was like, sort of. It was like a weird interaction.

[Jen]

And Tam was like, did she say, I'm done? Did she quit? Did she run off? God, I wish I could have seen it. Oh, my God, my heart's racing so fast right now. I mean, personally, I wish we'd brought in a gay psychic to reveal this information, but whatever. Different roads lead to different places. Am I right, girls?

[Ronnie Caram]

So Jen's like, yeah, you know, I just. I don't want to see her and talk about her the whole time. I just want to have a conversation. And I'm glad that you're here, because last time I. She and I sat down, like, yeah.

[Jen]

It didn't work out. It didn't work out.

[Ronnie Caram]

So then we see Jen and Tamara fighting at the restaurant, and Joan being like, you're fucking sick.

[Jen]

How dare you call me fucking sick. I could be autistic. Miss.

[Ronnie Caram]

So, back to the present. Jen's like, yeah, I guess maybe I place more of a value on our friendship. And now I just feel embarrassed that I ever placed value on that friendship.

[Jen]

Yeah, don't say that. Like, we had some good times. We had really good times. Like, remember the time when I accused your husband of, like, having an affair? Remember the time I called the FBI and your husband? And remember the time I tried to, like, get everyone against you, like, a few different seasons in a row? Remember time I called the. The private investigator on your husband? We had so many good times. The other gin. Yeah. Remember when I told everybody that your husband, that your boyfriend wanted to me instead.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah.

[Jen]

They're so good. We've had some good times together. Come on. Come on. So good.

[Ronnie Caram]

So. So now Tamara's like, okay, well, let me just say.

[Jen]

Admit. Did I fucked up? I'm so sorry, Jen. What happened? Okay, can everybody listen? Play some violins or something? Tammy's about to open up. Okay, remember when I said that, Ryan? That was a real aha moment for me. It was aha. It was so aha. Hey, guys. That was so aha. That was 9 ahs out of 10 ahs in aha's. I really aha that bitch. You know what? I started therapy and I'm deep diving this shit. I don't even want to talk about it. But I will talk about that I'm doing it. And that little girl in me that just gets upset is the girl that fucking lashes out. I got a little girl in me. Her name is Tammy sue, and she's got hair in the shape of thimble. And she gets mad at people. And I'm mad now, but I'm working on it, babe. I'm working at it.

[Ronnie Caram]

But you'll do this. And then two weeks later, you know, you get backed into a corner and you're like, what? What? You're like a fucking aggressor, you know? Oh, are we gonna go backwards? I feel like this is going backwards. Rewind to that waitress lying about strawberry margari.

[Ben Mandelker]

Do that. All right, Knife.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Paloma's back. Anybody?

[Ben Mandelker]

We are going back. But I'm just saying, like, you know, you. You gotta start changing the pattern because people don't, like, you know, it's almost like crying wolf, you know, it's like.

[Jen]

Yeah, things don't go this deep when you. When you don't really care about somebody. And I do care about you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is like the classic thing that, like, awful people on reality TV do. They're mean and mean and mean and mean and mean. And then they're like, I only act.

[Jen]

This way because I care. Cause if I didn't care, I'd just be indifferent. I care about you so much. The angrier I am at you means the more I care about you. You just make me so angry sometimes. Don't make me so angry. Yeah. And by the way, you know who else cries wolf? Little girls. Little girls stuck inside a possum face. That's what they do. They crawled. My body's wolf. Sometimes there is a wolf, and you're the wolf, bitch. Okay? She miss.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Jen has decided to forgive her again. You know, Tamra, who's done all of this stuff. But you can't forgive Katie for.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ronnie Caram]

Said at dinner.

[Ben Mandelker]

So this episode is definitely the producers trying to be like, no, America, don't worry. Nothing's toxic here. Look, everyone's getting along, everyone's happy, everyone's fine. We just ran Katie off the show. But it's fine. Everyone loves each other now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So Jen's decided to support Tamara in her journey, her journey of therapy. So just thank you for going there. Thank you so much, Tamara. And they agreed to not do it anymore. And they kiss on the lips and Tamara's like, I love you soon.

[Jen]

I love you so much. Relax it. I'm so glad you're happy. So happy now. We're such good friends now, me and Jim. Just like sisters. Sisters separated the parenthood.

[Ben Mandelker]

And then Heather, they're like sort of hugging or like clasping each other's like elbows. And Heather takes like a selfie with them in the background. She's like, I'm gonna send this to Drake, my neighbor. We'll. But we'll save these for later to see how it ends up.

[Ronnie Caram]

So this is almost as believable as that strawberry margarita tasting decent.

[Ben Mandelker]

Does anyone know where Paloma is? She's due at the house at 4pm hello there.

[Ronnie Caram]

This is a two part recap. Okay, this is the end of part one. So thank you so much for listening to this. Just come back a little later for part two.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King it's always a party on Alice and Block.

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

Woods with Guy Tubbs it's our queen.

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It's Queen Laifa Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo we love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock garden It's Lisa H We're ride or die for Lisa Rider Baron She's a wiz It's Liz Sarthi Always killing it.

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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Sarah telling of Sun Shannon out of a cannon Anthony, please don't stop at Soly and Pop. Let's take off with Tamla Plain she.

[Ronnie Caram]

Ain'T no shrinking violet Coutar. We love you guys. If you like, watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey. It's your man, Nick Cannon, and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at Night. I've heard y' all been needing some advice in the love department, so who better to help than yours truly? Nah, I'm serious. Every week I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions. Having problems with your man? We got you catching feelings for your sneaky link. Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom? Let's talk about it. Consider this a non judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex and modern dating in relationships, friendships, situationships and everything in between. It's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy.

[Jen]

And you know what?

[Ronnie Caram]

You'll just have to watch the show. So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at Night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad free? Join Wondery right now.