#3060 RHOC S19E17 Part Two: And Just Like That…

Summary

Watch What Crappens – Episode #3060 Recap

Podcast: Watch What Crappens
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Episode: #3060 – RHOC S19E17 Part Two: And Just Like That...
Date: October 31, 2025

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

In this episode, Ben and Ronnie deliver a no-holds-barred, irreverent recap of the explosive Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC) Season 19 Finale, focusing on the cast confrontation over Gretchen Rossi’s social media activity, accusations of transphobia and homophobia, and the broader implications for the cast. The show is a mix of Bravo-fan deep dives, character lampooning, sharp moral critique, and the hosts’ signature comedic banter as they dissect both the on-screen drama and what it says about Real Housewives culture at large.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. The Episode’s Big Drama: Gretchen’s Social Media Scandal

The Confrontation Unfolds ([09:24]–[35:31])

• Tamara confronts Gretchen about liking a slew of posts on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) that are described as “disparaging towards the LGBTQ+ community,” citing “homophobia, transphobia, and more.” Gretchen denies knowledge, blames mindless scrolling, and claims ignorance.
• The hosts provide context from the fandom: this “exposé” about Gretchen's online activity had been circulating since at least August 2023. Ronnie says, “[12:50] So everybody pretending they've never heard of this...I just don't believe it. I think the show told them: don't go after Gretchen on this.”
• Ronnie reads some of the most egregious posts that Gretchen allegedly liked, including rhetoric equating homosexuality with pedophilia:

  "When you open the door to homosexuality, you open the door to pedophilia...If you want to save the kids, start by calling homosexuality what it is." – [15:03] (Ronnie, quoting liked content)

• Heather (Dubrow) is portrayed as “horrified,” as the group demands an explanation. Gretchen fumbles, seems detached, and is slow to demand proof or defend her character.
• Hosts analyze the cast’s responses, exposing hypocrisy (everyone “pretending” shock), show politics (producers possibly pushing when and how the story emerges), and the ways Housewives often “look the other way” on serious issues for paycheck and cast stability.

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2. The Fallout and Cast Dynamics

Gretchen’s Reaction & Group Processing ([35:31]–[48:58])

• Gretchen’s defense includes past drag queen parties and friendships:

  “I mean, I had a drag queen Tupper party in 2009!” — (Gretchen, [34:46])

• Hosts reject these excuses as “I have gay friends”-ism, with Heather noting:

  “If the best you can do is, like, cite a party you had in 2009. Okay.” — [28:03]

• The cast evaluates Gretchen’s underwhelming, tearless reaction:

  “If I was being accused of something I absolutely did not do, I'd be crawling across the table beating the shit out of Tamara Judge...The fact is she’s not angry, doesn't make any sense to me.” — (Emily by proxy, [35:32])

• Emotional stakes run high: Heather Dubrow is in tears, citing her work with LGBTQ organizations, while Gretchen finally “summons the outrage” only after being ostracized by the group.
• Gina tries to fact-check online and finds Gretchen still follows the same problematic accounts; the hosts suspect Slade wiped likes after the scandal became public:

  “Some of these accounts are so disgusting, even that is enough for me to convict.” – Ronnie [45:27]

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3. Critique of Cast and Production Handling

On Responsibility, Producer Manipulation, and the Issue of Leaks ([46:08]–[59:56])

• The hosts lambast Tamara for sitting on the info for a year (allegedly at producers’ behest), only confronting Gretchen once it fits a storyline:

  “You’re putting them in a position where they're supporting this person all year long…and then boom, at the end…you're like: haha, you've been supporting a hateful bigot this whole time.” – Ronnie [32:40]

• Ben (Heather) proposes nuanced explanations for why some wives “don’t act” immediately (laziness, mental workarounds, denial), but still calls for authenticity and accountability.
• On the network: Bravo’s apparent wish to “sweep the issue under the rug” and the damage of platforming known bigots for drama.
• The hosts assert the entire group is “complicit”:

  “You fucking all suck...Like, I don't think there's any standing up for any of them in this for me. Like, they're all gross.” – Ronnie [34:09]

• Ronnie parses the difference between “conservative views” and hate speech, condemning Gretchen’s documented activity as beyond the pale despite possible producer hesitance to air political stories.

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4. The Endgame and ‘Receipts’

Reunion Setup & Last-Minute Twist ([51:17]–[56:28])

• New drama emerges: The cast receives anonymous DMs alleging Tamara leaked show secrets to bloggers—prompting speculation that Bravo is “punishing” Tamara for pushing the Gretchen scandal on camera.
• Ronnie and Ben note that this “leaks” plotline is widely known in Bravo circles and doesn’t equalize what Gretchen did:

  “None of this matters. It's not what we're talking about. The point is Gretchen. The point is Gretchen’s posts.” – Ronnie [53:17]

• Ben suggests it’s more of a tease for the reunion and a way to “take Tamra down a peg,” but doesn’t negate Gretchen’s behavior.

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5. The State of Bravo & the Housewives Format

Fatigue and Hopes for the Franchise ([56:42]–[62:35])

• The hosts argue that “who leaked what?” storylines are tired, divisive, and detract from what makes Real Housewives compelling (real relationships, betrayals, alliances, growth).

  “It's too abstract...I think it's actually a little toxic for these shows. Salt Lake City is fine…but I think it gets away from the central premise...” – Ben [57:44]

• As Bravo leans ever more into online drama and meta plotlines, they suggest future seasons must “tighten up the ship.”

  “The best parts of the show is when we see someone say something or do something about their life or whatever, and then people react to it…” – Heather [58:02]

• Ronnie closes by saying several cast members may be done after this season, especially Gretchen and maybe Tamara; Ben thinks Katie may return.

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• On Gretchen's defense:
  “Some of my best friends are black, you know, people...We see it all the time, where people kind of…visit a marginalized community and yet not actually support them.” — Heather [27:22]

• On Housewives moral cowardice:
  “They’re just trying to sweep under the rug here. And it’s gross. It’s gross. And I think that the whole cast is complicit…” — Ronnie [18:52]

• About Tamara’s performative outrage:
  “It’s like you called the fire department when the house was already burnt down.” – Ronnie [43:48]

• On social media as a ‘character’: “The social media has been another character on this show for years. I mean, we even have a character named Social Media...It was kind of cool at first…now it’s the whole show.” — Ronnie [58:58]

• On the future of RHOC:
  “I don't see how Gretchen is going to come back from this. I don't see Tamara is going to come back from this...Heather may be just done.” — Ronnie [61:07]

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SEGMENT TIMESTAMPS

• [09:24] – Confrontation over Gretchen’s social activity begins
• [12:17] – Host breaks down timeline/awareness in fandom
• [15:03] – Quotation of inflammatory post Gretchen liked (Ronnie)
• [19:24] – Discussion of cast complicity and production decisions
• [28:03] – "Best you can do is cite a party from 2009"
• [34:09] – Blanket condemnation: "You all suck"
• [45:27] – Gina investigates Gretchen’s follows and likes
• [53:17] – Analyzing the leak subplot and its (non) relevance
• [57:44] – Argument for less meta, more real-life Housewives drama
• [61:07] – Speculation about the fate of the current cast

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SUMMARY

This episode is an incisive, at times furious, autopsy of RHOC’s most scandalous finale to date. Ben and Ronnie break down the Gretchen Rossi homophobia/transphobia scandal as both a moral failing and a reality TV circus, refusing to let anyone (cast or network) off the hook. With biting humor and righteous anger, they call for a reset in Housewives values and storytelling, nostalgic for the “real drama” of friendships and alliances, and less interested in behind-the-scenes leaks and social media as the center of Bravo storylines.

If you haven’t listened, this episode will catch you up on every twist, every hypocrisy, and every Bravo meta-moment with the clarity and shade only Watch What Crappens can deliver.

Transcript

[Ronnie]

Welcome aboard Virgin Voyages, where luxury meets drama. Free sailing. As you know, the Real Housewives of Miami took a trip on beautiful Virgin Voyages cruise this season.

[Heather]

But we thought, why did the Miami girls get to have all the fun? So we're putting the C in SLC and seeing what it'd be like if our favorites from Utah went on the same boat.

[Ronnie]

Today we're joining Lisa and Angie from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City as they indulge in one of our world class restaurants. With Virgin Voyages, you'll experience the same delicious food and good times that these housewives are about to enjoy.

[Heather]

Remember, the cruises are all included, so there's no need to worry about hidden fees or surprise charges. Now let's see what Lisa and Angie are up to.

[Ronnie]

Oh my God. This restaurant is amazing. I absolutely love the food here. May I take your order? Yeah, I'll have some.

[Heather]

So how could you order soup? That is so rude of you. At least be Greek.

[Ronnie]

Soup. No, I said so.

[Heather]

Soup? Are you talking about soup, man? I don't even know any soup, man. Why are you bringing soup into this?

[Ronnie]

I said so.

[Heather]

Why are you being like this? I thought we settled everything, Lisa. I just want to have a lovely appetizer in this delicious restaurant. I am so sick of being accused of things I was trying to do is honest. So a lot here. Lisa, I brought back all the soup bowls you gave me. Since we are obviously not friends anymore, they're in a crate for you to take home.

[Ronnie]

What a meal. Virgin Voyages offers top notch dining experiences with menus curated by Michelin starred chefs. While we can't guarantee your friends will be as entertaining as Lisa and Angie, we can promise you'll have an unforgettable time.

[Heather]

From the Caribbean to the Mediterranean, Virgin Voyages takes you to amazing destinations in style. Make your next vacation truly fabulous with Virgin Voyages.

[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

Watch what Crappens. Who cares what happens when there's so much? Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens? Hi, everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of a two part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. So that way you always get your episodes. But enough of that. Let's get right back into the episode. So now it's evening and everyone is getting ready for glam. And. And Shannon's like, so you guys travel to Paris and stuff? And the glam people are like, yeah.

[Tamara]

She's like, oh, well, I am taking.

[Heather]

A train there tomorrow to visit my daughter who tried to move across the.

[Tamara]

World to get away from me, but guess what? Surprise, surprise. Second year in a row, I'm coming over.

[Ronnie]

So Gina and Emily are still in their shitty, messy room, and we see the decorated penis still in there, which I like that Emily kept that. And Gina's like, oh, my God, now.

[Tamara]

Emily, I just burnt my hair.

[Ronnie]

I just burnt. You can't put plastic into an iron. Your hair is made out of, like, pom pom material. What are you putting it in there for?

[Heather]

Yeah, don't do that. Do not do that. Then they're all getting into dinner, and Heather's like, shannon, are you wearing slippers to dinner, honey?

[Tamara]

I am.

[Heather]

Well, originally I called these my nice shoes. But we can call them slippers, too.

[Tamara]

Thanks.

[Heather]

Thanks for that.

[Ronnie]

I just can't believe it's our last night, guys. I just can't believe it.

[Heather]

I just can't.

[Ronnie]

Oh, it's our last night. I accept it. I accept it. Let's eat. So they go in and they start talking about crab. Like, let's get crabbed.

[Tamara]

And Tamara's like, we don't want itchy crabs. Okay. Waiter. Yeah, I've had crabs before.

[Ronnie]

He's like, okay, okay. Well, would you like to order something?

[Tamara]

It's real bad. Right on my vagina. It was hilarious. It hurts so bad.

[Heather]

This place was crazy, by the way. They had, like, hanging fish everywhere, which is, you know, whatever fish place. But in there also in their, like, fish display, they. They had, like, several fish that they just, like, put citrus in their mouth. Like, that fish was just sitting there. Like. Like it was like a ball gag. And like, I know, like, there's a tradition of, you know, like a suckling pig. You put the apple in the pig's mouth and everything. But I think the difference is that the. The pig definitely looks dead and cooked. It's like, oh, here is a cooked pig with a. With an apple in its mouth. But these fish still kind of look alive. They're not, but they just look alive because they. They're just sort of in the same raw. They're like. At their raw state, you just look at these fish and you're like, can we give the fish just, Just. Just a shred more dignity before it's consumed by the likes of, like, Tamara and Shannon? Before we know the lemon, it's just, yeah, fish.

[Ronnie]

So they make a toast, and Tamara's.

[Tamara]

Like, guys, it's been such a refuge. What was Gretchen come and laugh at me for over a decade.

[Ronnie]

And then we start getting the. Our favorite song key change.

[Heather]

Oh, God, bridge that song.

[Tamara]

Okay, let's see what's going on. Chairman Eddie have been spending lots of time with Big Bad, and Sophie is planning to move to New York City to put some music. She has no plan to record anything with her mother because she probably fucked somebody named Nelson. Okay, back to my speech. I just want to thank you guys for being there. And, Heather, you helped me through some really dark times, and I appreciate that. Which is my way of saying, why are you such a shitty friend to me? Always are. Always such a bad friend to me. Bitch.

[Heather]

What? Heather and Terry sold their Beverly Hills house at a $5.8 million loss. No big deal. And she doesn't plan on buying a new place in Orange county, and that's no lie. Come on, Kyle Richards. We could be friends. Let me onto your show, please. Thank you. Thank you.

[Tamara]

Yeah, everybody, so it was great trip, and I'm really looking forward to the future with you guys.

[Ronnie]

The gated group is still going strong, as are Gina and Travis. And Gina's still living without fear. Unless she's critic.

[Tamara]

Unless she's critiquing Heather's improv. Excuse me. I also have an update, which is to say Shannon has a new guy.

[Heather]

In her life, Troy, a golden retriever.

[Tamara]

And she's riding this emotional high space cake free.

[Heather]

Oh, can we. Can we get a new Alfredo in here for me, please? I don't like my padumpchas.

[Ronnie]

May our glam always be flawless. May our receipts always be accurate. Okay.

[Heather]

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Ronnie]

This is. While Ryan and Jen still do not have a wedding day planned, Dawson recently graduated from Marines boot camp and passed out 20 minutes into the ceremony, so.

[Heather]

God, I just. I. I won't get. Is it.

[Tamara]

Is it really true that as a.

[Heather]

New girl, I don't get a badamcha there? Really? There's just. There's just no other badumcha that's around there for me to. To hear?

[Tamara]

No.

[Heather]

Is that a pajam show, or is there an actual medical emergency happening right now? No. Okay, that's fine.

[Ronnie]

So now Heather's like, okay, I'll do it again. So maybe our friendships, although sometimes compl. Always be worth the ride. What is she talking about? She's terrible at cheersing.

[Tamara]

Did you just make that up or read it@chat GPT?

[Heather]

Well, actually, funny story. I had Christy McNichol write it for me, and then when she gave it to me, I said, well, I'm glad you finally got a gig after 20 years. Here's $5.

[Ronnie]

Emily continues to navigate Luke's evolving diagnoses, and she's learning to embrace life's unpredictable ride, including the one at the Abbey.

[Heather]

Oh, okay, wait a minute.

[Ronnie]

Are those sharks hanging down off the ceiling? And they're like, maybe it's a tuna. I don't know. Is that a tuna or shark?

[Tamara]

Hey, everyone.

[Ronnie]

Wait.

[Tamara]

Hey, Gretchen. Hey, Gina.

[Heather]

They.

[Tamara]

They stopped playing the. The nice music at the end, so I think that means you have to.

[Heather]

Start doing the dark stuff now. Okay?

[Ronnie]

Oh, okay.

[Tamara]

Okay. Okay.

[Ronnie]

Gretchen, there's something that I have to address with y'.

[Heather]

All.

[Ronnie]

When we were in Orange County.

[Tamara]

Oh, wait, wait. Are you talking about the conversation we had together?

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. It's been weighing on me, and I cannot. I can't not bring this up. Gretchen.

[Tamara]

It's been waiting on me, too. Like, weighing on me so hard that I had to have Gina say it for me. Okay, Go on.

[Heather]

Go do it, Gina. Do it.

[Ronnie]

Well, Tamara shared a lot of posts that you've liked that are, like, very disparaging towards the LGBTQ community. LGBTQ community. Plus community. LGBTQ plus community.

[Tamara]

Oh, my gosh. I would never do that. I mean, if I like something, then I probably didn't know what it was about. I'm dumb. I don't have any issue with the LGBTQ lethargic community.

[Ronnie]

The lethargic GBTQ community. But wait a minute. Then why are you on social media liking these things? And she's like, well, unfortunately, sometimes I'm probably scrolling quickly and liking things. And so, I don't know, maybe I'm not paying enough attention. Oh, no, ma'. Am. I'm sorry. Oh, really? You just happened to press like on accident on every single hateful gay related post that there is.

[Heather]

Come on.

[Ronnie]

Slipped into that one.

[Tamara]

You know, sometimes I go on to no homo talk, and I just like things by accident. My bad.

[Heather]

So Shannon's like, I mean, by the.

[Tamara]

Way, how did you see it, Tamara?

[Heather]

Let's not forget Tamara over here, because this would be fun.

[Tamara]

Well, it was something that was sent to I heart.

[Heather]

And Emma's like, did you talk about it?

[Tamara]

No. I heart was like, no, that's why I heart sent it to me. Because they were like, don't talk about this.

[Heather]

So Jen is like, but Tamara, do you have it up?

[Tamara]

She's like, yeah, here it is.

[Heather]

So they're looking at it and Gina's like, oh, my God. There's like a lot of it. And there's like one about Dylan Mulvaney. Jen's like, who's that? She is a friend of mine. And we have a flashback earlier in the season when Dylan was on Heather's podcast and they talked about the discrimination and the hate that Dylan receives as a trans woman.

[Ronnie]

Here's the thing, you know, they're saying like, oh, this was just sent to Tamara and iHeart. IHeartradio sent Tamara headlines, meaning they were things that were already out in the news. This was not something that was like, oh, I heart's doing this deep cutting investigative journalism. All the ladies knew that this has been out. I mean, this is crazy. This stuff has been out for over a year at least. It's been out a couple of years. I've known about it. And I'm not like some magic person doing detective work here. They all know this. You're telling me that no one, no one texted Heather Dubrow and said, look at all these likes of Gretchen's. No one, really? And all of these. I know, it's.

[Heather]

Someone reminded me this morning. They. They added me. And there is a giant thread on. On X that says it's a threat exposing Orange county alum Gretchen Rossi's problematic views, including racism, homophobia, transphobia, Covid misinformation, etc, and it's. It's like, it's one thing. It's like one screenshot after another after another after another of like, the things that Gretchen has liked. And that was August 5, 2023. So it has like, it's been out there. It's been out.

[Ronnie]

So everybody pretending they've never heard of this, and they can't believe it. And they're all so shocked, especially Heather. Like, what are you talking about this stuff has been out there forever and someone sent this to you, and I don't believe for one second that the rest of us saw it, but you didn't. That's just absolute bullshit. I think the show told them, listen, we're going to bring Heather, we're going to bring Gretchen on here and we don't want this to become, you know, some hate filled, blah, blah, blah. We don't want you to go for her for that because, you know, Tamara's had this in her back pocket for years to, to use anybody who doesn't like Gretchen has. So I'm just not buying this. And it's just, I don't know, crazy to me.

[Heather]

I don't know if I'm gonna say that Heather, like, Nunu, I think I. Sometimes I think like, Heather could be like me, where it's like, I hear from, like, you, oh, Gretchen's been posting like, really homophobic stuff. And I'm like, okay, I, I trust that you said it. I trust you. And I'm like, oh, I hear that she does homophobic stuff. But like, I don't really, like, go necessarily. Like, go out and find the tweet and look at what she liked because I'm lazy and I'm like, okay, I trust Ronnie on this one. And then, but, but by me not doing that, I just, I'm like, okay, whatever. Not whatever, like, that's, that's okay. But it doesn't hit with the same potency as it does when you actually see what she has liked. And, and I would not be surprised if Heather is sort of in a similar place, because I do think that Heather is, she, she is a really strong advocate for these things. And I don't think that if Heather had seen it with her own eyes, I don't think she would, she would be chill. I really don't. I think maybe she'd known about it and I can imagine she did a mental workaround where she said, well, you know, she's conservative, I'm liberal, we'll find a way to shoot together. Find a way. And I don't think she really knew I, or she was in denial or whatever until, until this moment. Maybe I' naive, but that's, that's really how I read the situation.

[Ronnie]

I just don't see a world where someone in the audience didn't send her some of these screenshots. I mean, I'm going to go over them, some, some of these right now because these are insane. And some of them, like in the One you sent where there's 20. Some of that you can argue and say, well, these are just conservative views. These are what people are saying all the time on Twitter. Okay. Some of them. We teach gender ideology in school. And so it's normal for half of preteen classrooms to be gender questioning. Kids admit the cool kids in their class are transgender, so they just want to be trans too. It's all too much. Dems have gone too far. I'm out. So things like that. I read that. I'm extremely offended, but I read it all the time in conservative threads. So I'm also not shocked that someone who's really maga and conservative would say that. Right. But then you get to posts like this one. Hold on a second. I've got these all over my phone. This was by Tyson James, liked by Gretchen Rossi. When you opened the door to homosexuality, you opened the door to pedophilia. You'll never win by normalizing perversion. Sin is a slippery slope. Slope. You think it's bad now? Give it a couple of years. If you want to save the kids, start by calling homosexuality what it is. That was July 14th. So there's no world in which somebody like me or somebody in the audience doesn't send this to these people in the cast. I just don't believe it. So I don't know. I think it's a thing.

[Heather]

I think other people in the cast may have known. I think they. I don't know. It's. I don't. Do you think that Gina and do you think Gina had seen these before?

[Ronnie]

Yes, they've all seen them. These people are all on here all the time, looking at Instagram and seeing what everybody's talking about. That's all they talk about on Housewives now is like, what's going on on the blogs? Who's talking to the blogs? Who said what? They all know. There are certain bloggers. They're all caught talking to the bloggers. I just can't believe. And they're all on Instagram constantly. And their assistants and their social media people are on there constantly. There's no world in which Heather doesn't have a million people telling her, heather, this woman is crazy. And look at all the stuff she's liking on here. This stuff. This is not some hidden thing that hasn't been out. This has been out for a long time.

[Heather]

So do you think Gina acted very much like this is the first time she'd seen these? Do you think it was a situation where by Tamara bringing it up on Camera. I think it was like. Do you think it was a situation where they're all looking the other way? Because it was like, this is the sort of thing that's like, a little too serious for the Real Housewives. Do you think that when Tamara brought it up to Gina on camera, Gina realized that she had to kind of, like, take a stand and say something? Because rather than being accused of looking the other way, do you think she was getting ahead of the story in that way? Which is why she confronted her, which is similar to the advice she gave Katie regarding Heather DeBrow last season. Like, you have to talk to Heather, to Brooks. If you don't, I'm gonna have to do it. Do you think that?

[Ronnie]

I think she's like, a producer plant, and she. She and Emily do whatever the producers want is what I think. Like, anytime move forward, they're always the ones to come forward and do it. But if Tamara told them two or three weeks ago before this, they've all just been sitting there on this, not saying anything on camera, which is bullshit. I don't believe that any of them would do that. I don't believe Tamara would sit on this for a whole year when she's going against Gretchen and fake quitting the show and doing all this stuff. If she had this in her pocket. I think production was saying, you're not going to be able to use it. And Tamara was like, well, I'm going to use it. And so for two weeks, they've been trying to figure out, how are we going to deal with this? Okay, let's put it in the last five seconds of the show. So. And then we'll. And then producers turned it back on Tamra by saying, okay, well, if Tamra's gonna do that, then we're gonna blow it all back on her and expose all Tamra shit and make Tamara the villain in all of this. It's just so. It's just so crazy. And it's crazy that me, of all people, would stick up for Tamara in this situation, because I don't. I do 100% believe that Tamara has relationships with bloggers and that she's shady and she's doing everything that they're accusing her of. But it doesn't change the fact that Gretchen like all these. There's tons of them. There's tons of them. There's tons of them. Were like, I got my Trump hat. And it's like, there is like, okay, we're watching TV and politics, and especially if you're doing something in orange county, where there's a lot of conservative people in Orange County. Everybody knows it, you know, and so how much of that do you put on the show and how much of it do you want the audience fighting over political shit?

[Heather]

Right.

[Ronnie]

And I can see how the producers wouldn't want that, because it's going to piss everybody off, and nobody wants to see that on tv. However, this is beyond just political shit. She is posting nasty, homophobic, transphobic, horrible, horrible, horrible that they're just trying to sweep under the rug here. And it's gross. It's gross. And I think that the whole cast is complicit in agreeing to go along with it in the first place. And I think they do it a lot where they're just like, okay, we're gonna let this person get away with bad behavior because we want our job on this TV show. And they choose.

[Heather]

I think that's. I think that's. That's a. That's a fair point. And I mean, if Tamara saw these. These headlines a year ago, the. It. What's hard to imagine. I guess I'm. I don't know if I'm walking back some of my words or not, but as I'm just sort of thinking through it, like on the fly, it's hard to imagine that the moment that Tamara hears that Gretchen's coming back on the show, her arch rival, that Tamara doesn't immediately call up Heather debrow and say, there are. Gretchen's coming back. And just so you know, she's done this, this, this, this. These are all her tweets. It's hard to believe. And in fact, they ask her later on, like, why would you. Why would you reach out to Gina and not Heather? And that is a really weird thing. So I don't know why she wouldn't reach out to Heather.

[Ronnie]

Maybe.

[Heather]

Maybe in that moment, Tamara is actually protecting Heather. Maybe she had reached out to Heather, and she's not saying that she did that because she doesn't want to put Heather in a really tough situation. So she says she just only reached out to Gina. I'm not sure there's really a lot to speculate on in this situation. But you're right. In the end, seeing really, like, looking at those tweets today, this morning, it's. It's pretty shocking. What had. What. What. What Gretchen liked. And what's also, what's even more shocking is her inability to, like, her attempt to actually act like it wasn't her, that she didn't do it. I'm like, you Cannot come onto this show with that hair. Praying in a family circle before you go up to Beverly Hills for sleepover, praying to Jesus and then act like, and act shocked that anyone would even think there's any like the, any like that people would accuse you of liking these things. It's like, like it's, it'd be one thing if like you turn it on and then you see like Lisa Rinna liking all this stuff. You're like, whoa, that does. Lisa Rinna was probably hacked. I don't know why Lisa Rinna is my choice, but like, whatever. But I would still think Lisa Rinna's hacked. But Gretchen, you come on here, dress like a mega, like Megan Kelly meets like the 1950s. And you're, you're very, very religious. And then you're hot. Liking very sort of right wing hateful views on, on gays and trans people. And then you act like it's crazy that people would think that those are real likes. Like, you can't bamboozle us.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, we're not that stupid, lady. My God, it's crazy. Well, some people are, because I'm reading the comments and I'm like, what? People are falling for this. This is such crap. I can't believe it. But I just, I just find it interesting that everybody's taking a side. It's like, either I believe that there are a lot of people who believe Gretchen's innocent. And they're like, you guys need to leave conservatives alone. We're being bullied. And then there are a lot of people are like, no, fuck Gretchen. Get her off this show. But I don't, I don't see why everyone's not outraged at this whole thing. Because everybody fucking knew this was going on. Everybody, including Heather. And Heather refollowed Gretchen last week and all of this other shit. So I don't understand what's happening. And I guess maybe the reunion will explain it, but unless someone went seriously Photoshop crazy, Photoshopped all these random. Which seems like such a random way to get at somebody, like, oh my God, look what post she liked. I don't think that would be something that you fake. You would fake actual posts that she made, right? No one's gonna go fake a whole Internet history for years and years of this shit. So I don't know what they're doing to explain it. That Heather would even forgive this at all, or any of them would forgive this shit at all. But for them to all act like they've just heard it is absolute hogwash. And I think this, this show owes everybody an apology because this is just bullshit and we've got a lot more to go. That was. That's just the start. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

A lot of people have been asking me about my quince Mongolian cashmere, and I have to say it's soft and it's delicious. And to complete the look, I actually went and I got a watch band, a titanium watch band. So that way my little watch looks a lot more chic than when I wear the exercise band that came with it. So really, it's like a one stop shop for me for looking chic for fall.

[Ronnie]

Oh, so fancy. Yes. I got a cashmere hoodie from there and I look pretty amazing in it. Layer up this fall with pieces that feel good as they Look. Go to quints.com crappens for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com crappens free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com Krabins so they're confronting Gretchen and she's like, oh, my God, they've got to be kidding me, right? Because, like, out of all the things you could say, this is what you're going to come up with. I mean, this is just ridiculous. Nothing's true. And Heather's like, do you understand that I just threw an event for The Trevor Project. LGBTQ youth in so in danger right now. Every 40 seconds, she's like, yeah, somebody commits suicide. I know. And so now they're like kind of chatting at each other there. And Tamara's like, well, yeah.

[Tamara]

And you know what?

[Ronnie]

And Heather goes, I am speaking.

[Heather]

I was like, yes, this is a righteous. My turn. Still me. I was like, yes, it's at. Yeah, a righteous version of it. I love it. And just. And so she says, like, every 45 seconds, a queer child tries to kill themselves.

[Tamara]

And Gretchen's like, yeah, I know, I know, I know.

[Heather]

It's like, do you understand what hate rhetoric like this does to our Children.

[Tamara]

It's like, yes, yes, I do.

[Heather]

No, you don't. You obviously do not. Not.

[Ronnie]

No, you don't and you don't care. And she's just sitting there really calmly, like, trying to figure out what to do, you know? So, like, her whole demeanor is really weird. She's like. But no, it's not true. I mean, what. I mean, it's just, if I. Unbelievable.

[Heather]

If I. If I am. Honestly, if I am pro gay and I'm being accused on camera of being anti gay or like, well, obviously I'm gay, How about, let's say, like, racism? Okay? Someone says, I'm a racist and I'm on camera, and I. I believe my heart of hearts. I am not racist. And I said, and. And I. And someone accused me of that on camera. I'm not gonna be like, no, no. I'll be like, what? No, absolutely not. Like, what happened? Like, how can I clear this up? Like, there must be some misunderstanding. Show me what happened. I need to, like, address this right away because, like, if I. If I did something, if I put that out there, like, oh, I. I need to clear this up. And if I said something wrong, I need to apologize. Like, I need to, like, like, I. Mandatory. Mandatory that people know that that's not what's in my heart right now. And Gretchen just sitting there like, huh. Because like you said, she's trying to figure out, like, oh, shit, this is coming up. How do I spin this? How do I get out of this?

[Ronnie]

Like, what do I do?

[Heather]

I thought I already put this fire out. Yeah, she knew.

[Ronnie]

She knew it was going to come up. So she's like, wait a minute, didn't we already delete all these likes? Like, how am I getting. How am I getting pummeled for this? Like, you can see her so confused about it. And also, one little thing that's missing here, which is, I think the smoking gun, is if somebody comes at you and says, there's all these posts that you like and Tamara has the screenshots. When are you going to say, show me the screenshots, huh? Show me the accounts go online right now. And why aren't they saying, where's your phone? Show us who you follow on your phone. Show us these lights. Show us that you didn't like these things. Go ahead, show us. Nobody's doing that. So I just. This whole thing is so gross. So then Heather's saying, this doesn't seem like Gretchen because Gretchen's always had a lot of friends in the community. And if it's True. She has no words. I mean, people. That doesn't mean your hair aren't really friends in the community. And also somebody to come be a clown at your drag queen tupperware party in 2012 doesn't prove anything either.

[Heather]

Well, it's also like saying, well, I like, a lot of. I have. Some of my best friends are black, you know, people. Yes, there are a lot of. We see it all the time, where people kind of like to visit a marginalized community in a sense, and yet not actually support them. You know, it's like sometimes you people like to come and get the perks of it and love the association of it, but when it comes down to actually what you're voting for, what you care about, what you advocate for, it's like crickets. So Gretchen saying that she had a drag Tupperware party into, like, if that's the best you can do is, like, cite a party you had in 2009. Okay.

[Ronnie]

An on camera party with drag queens. Like, oh, okay, okay, Gretchen. So she's saying, it's not like me, Heather. And she goes, why are you not horrified? Like, can someone at least show her that? Because she still hasn't even asked to see them. So Gretchen's like, well, it just makes me really sad, guys. And she goes, it makes you sad? And Tamara's like, yeah, well, if you feel that way, just say you feel that way and at least stand up for what you believe, you know, because you're representing us when you're on this show, basically. So Gina does show Gretchen the phone, and Gretchen doesn't really look at it, you know? And Heather's like, this is about human decency. And then Jen tries to jump in and help her, and she's like, well, maybe do you feel biblically like this is something? Cause I know you're very strong in your faith. And Heather's like, biblical, you know, like, don't even start this shit. Don't even try it. And Jen's like, I'm just asking her. I'm just trying to find out why she would do this.

[Tamara]

And Tamara's like, jesus asks gay people text.

[Heather]

And she's like, just like, whoa.

[Tamara]

No, I'm sorry.

[Heather]

I'm just trying to figure it out. And Heather, Jesus does not like, hey, she's. I'm not saying that Heather. Jen, this is. Heather is angry right now. Just. Just step back. Let. Because Heather. I mean, Heather was livid. I mean, she was. I mean, the rage was in her eyes and justifiably so.

[Ronnie]

So she, you know, they're like, Jesus, doesn't he? And Jen's like, listen, I'm not trying to stand up for Gretchen. I'm just trying to give her an escape. Escape. An escape hatch to leave out of and get out of here. So Jen, friend to no one. Jen's like, well, I'm just trying to understand where would her mind be. I mean, it doesn't add up. You know, I know Gretchen, I know her soul and I know her heart. And something's amiss here, and I don't think it is. I mean, if you've looked at her Instagram one time, you pretty much know where she stands. I don't know how this is shocking to you, Jen, but.

[Heather]

Okay, well also the nose is a mess because it's really been face tuned out. So Heather says you are intentionally liking hate rhetoric.

[Tamara]

She's like, I don't know what you're talking about. So that's why I'm asking.

[Heather]

You did that?

[Tamara]

It's.

[Heather]

And so she was like, look, it's here, right? You see that?

[Tamara]

Like she's gonna need an explanation.

[Heather]

You see like that heart, you see.

[Tamara]

Your name on there, that means you like something. Okay.

[Heather]

And Gretchen's. Gretchen is just stalling out. She's just trying to figure out what her game plan is like.

[Tamara]

Yeah, I understand.

[Heather]

She's like, all I know is I'm.

[Tamara]

Seeing a screenshot of something I supposedly like, liked and I've never seen it in my life. And I'm completely blindsided with this information.

[Heather]

That is not my truth. I don't have the answers for you right now because it's just not who I am. I mean.

[Tamara]

How do you say you.

[Heather]

Don'T have the answers for you because it's not who I am. I, I don't like, it's wild. Like, the thing is we're all the whole like the spoof, spoof texts, spoof phone calls, this comes up on Bravo every now and then. It's always a losing argument, like you liked it. If anything, just say, I, you know what, I like these things. Two or three years ago, I, it's something that I believed in at that time. I've since done a lot of work and I've learned from people and I realized it was a really close minded, like just attempt to do something like that. And she just can't even do that.

[Ronnie]

Well, I mean, she's just. And also, as we find out later, she still follows all these accounts, these same accounts, These are not just like random posts that never come up on these The Matt Walsh blog, etc. This is like rhetoric. You don't. Or rhetoric. Sorry. That you don't. You don't just see once in a while on these accounts. The shit is on those accounts all the time. I mean, it's just ridiculous. So she's like, what? I never even seen those screenshots. And that's. Listen, I'm telling you, that's how I felt. And Heather's like, gretchen, why would you do that? And she's like, I don't know. And they're like, I don't know. It's not a good answer. She goes, I don't know though. So then of course she runs off and calls Slate. And Shannon's like upset and she's crying and she's like, some of my best friends are in that community. And I can't believe this. And so now that Gretchen has run off, Jen's like, so wait, Tamara, you knew about this for how long? And she goes, about a year. And Shannon's like, well, why wouldn't you say anything before?

[Tamara]

And she's like, because no matter what I say, I'm the bad guy.

[Heather]

And Shannon's like, but if it's.

[Tamara]

That's not the point. Don't try to deflect my. Why didn't you say something sooner? Are you defending her? She's like, no, but it's a legitimate question. If something heinous happens, happened, why wouldn't you let us know? She's like, because it's so gross. It was too dark. And if it was something. Something this dark and this gross should only be brought up on a cat strip by Gina.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, it's so gross. It's so dark.

[Tamara]

I mean, if it was something fun and light, like cheating on your boyfriend with cancer, that would have been fun.

[Ronnie]

But you know, this is too dark.

[Tamara]

Too dark.

[Ronnie]

You know? And like, you guys are trying to blame me for not telling. Yeah, but the point of this is, is you're making them look bad if they didn't know, which obviously I don't believe at all. But if they didn't know and you did know, you're making that you're putting them in a position where they're supporting this person all year long. And then boom, at the end of the year you're like, haha, you've been supporting a hateful bigot this whole time, you know, so you are putting them in a bad situation. I think it is telling the truth.

[Heather]

It's shitty of Tamara because she's like, well, I'm always the bad Guy. But, like, that has never, ever stopped Tamara before. Like, she'll. She'll say things like, fine, don't believe me.

[Tamara]

I'm always the bad guy.

[Heather]

But, like, she willingly does things like this before. And if this is something that she was, like, she actually was, you know, truly upset about. I mean, I'm not saying that she's not upset about it, but I'm saying, like, she is obviously, like, this is.

[Tamara]

So bothersome to me, but you've held.

[Heather]

On to it for a year and you didn't ever say anything.

[Ronnie]

Like that's any true. Any true Ally would have said something, period. And that's my problem with all of these ladies. You know, you choose something like a television. You're on a gay network. And I'm sure that that's why the network, I'm sure, was like, we're not bringing this up on the network. Like hell. This is like a very big. Like, gays love this network. You know, we're not going to touch this. But you brought her back knowing that this was going on, and then you were just going to try and sweep it under the rug and be quiet. No, you all. You fucking all suck. You all suck. Like, I don't think there's any standing up for any of them in the. In this for me. Like, they're all gross.

[Heather]

Yeah. So Tamara. Tamara's basically saying, if I were accused of being a homophobic, I'd be crying my eyes out. And Gretchen's like, but I know I'm not. Not. I'm not. I'm. I. I'm. I'm upset, like, about something, but that I. I'm not upset about something. That I know who. Because that I know who I am and what my heart feels. Gretchen saying she's not going to get upset because she knows her truth. I'm like, I think that's the most time. That's exactly when you get upset, when you know exactly who you are and what you believe in and you are being misrepresented in a massive and hurtful way on tv, you get very upset. She got upset over less.

[Ronnie]

This is where she's like, oh, this is crazy. I mean, I had a drag queen tupper party in 2009, which we see. And she's like, I've never been judgmental or had anything negative to say, you know, like, I don't care. But people live their life. And we see Heather, she's moved off to the bar to call Terry, and she's crying and saying, oh, my God. Gretchen has been Liking all these anti gay, anti trans posts. And then back at the table, Gretchen is still saying she's shocked and she doesn't remember liking any of this. She's like, what? I don't even know that you can account that you just showed me that I follow. And Tamara's like, I'm not buying your. And she's like, well, you guys are trying me make me out to be a homophobic person. It's like, oh, my God.

[Heather]

And Emily's like, you're just sitting there going, I don't know. I don't know. And they're basically. Sean's like, go talk to Heather.

[Tamara]

Okay?

[Heather]

She's obviously upset. Like, yeah, the bird. Emily says the burden's on you to make her feel better. So Gretchen leaves the table, and Emily's like, if I was being accused of something I absolutely did not do, I'd be crawling across the table beating the. The out of Tamara judge. I mean, I'll do that anyway. And the fact is that she's angry. She doesn't make it that she's not angry. Doesn't make any sense to me. So Gretchen goes up to Heather, and Heather is like, I don't know what to say. I'm horrified, horrified. And Gretchen's like, but do you think.

[Tamara]

I have hate towards your children?

[Heather]

And it's like, it's. It's frustrate. It's frustrating. And Lisa Barlow would say, because, like, people underestimate their ability to compartmentalize and that, like, Gretchen can be sweet and lovely to Heather's children in one space, but then like a. An Instagram post in another. And it's like, you know, you. People don't realize how like you. That they. They do that. And then they're like, what? But like, just because I like this one thing over here, look how nice of these people over here. I'm like, yeah, because you're kind of like, I don't know, is this the definition of exceptionalism or whatever? But you're sort of. Of viewing those like, oh, well, I like Heather's kids. They're. They're like the good ones or whatever.

[Ronnie]

No, she doesn't realize. I think it's typical in extreme religious. I grew up in a very extreme religious environment, and I cannot tell you how many times I was told, like, oh, you're. You know what, Ronnie, we love you so much, but, you know, it's just hate to sin or don't hate to see or hate to sin. Don't hate the sinner. You know what? You're doing is wrong. I don't agree with your lifestyle. No, of course you shouldn't have the right to get married. Of course you shouldn't, because that's just not God's will. But it doesn't mean I have to hate you. It's almost like. Like, look at what a good person I am by being nice to somebody that's an absolute garbage sinner, you know, which is the attitude you get a lot. And you will get it straight to your face, people telling you you don't deserve your equal rights and you don't deserve. And you should have the right, they should have the right to discriminate against you. And if we gave you the right to get married, we'd be given the same right to people to marry their goat. I mean, I've been told this shit to my face by my own family. Like, this is not some new thing, this new phenomenon that's just happening with people like Gretchen. And it's a pretty interesting reckoning right now in our country where this stuff is happening. And now we're seeing these people take over the laws and we're seeing what they're do, what they're doing with the laws to turn them against gay people, minorities, what they're doing with ice, what they're doing. I mean, it's just a fucking cluster fuck right now in this country. And now we have to listen to these people being like, oh, my God, you guys are bigots. Who are the real bigots? It's you guys who are calling us out on your podcast and you're calling us out in comments and you're calling us out online.

[Tamara]

You're trying to cancel us.

[Ronnie]

And we're just trying to have an opinion. Fuck you. Your opinion is that nobody else should have rights except you. So go fuck yourself, Gretchen. I'm not gonna sit here and listen to you fucking cry. And I'm not gonna sit here and listen to these other ladies act like they're fucking heroes for calling her on Instagram posts that have been out for years and they did nothing about so they can make their fucking paycheck sitting on this show and pretending that they like her for money. Singing all you guys.

[Heather]

Yeah, well said. So the back at the table, you know, Shannon and Tamara. Shannon's talking about how the damage is really deep and everything. And Tamara saying it's disgusting and, oh, it's a horrible situation. And then naturally, Tamara goes, I mean.

[Tamara]

She'S a horrible person. She's been going after me for 12 years.

[Heather]

I'm like, okay, Tamara, no, you can't. This is not your moment. Yeah, okay.

[Ronnie]

Stonewall Tamara.

[Heather]

Chairman once again trying to, like, push her going after me for 12 years agenda. So Gretchen calls up Slade and she's.

[Tamara]

Like, they're accusing me on.

[Heather]

On.

[Tamara]

On of liking posts on Instagram that are homophobic.

[Heather]

And he's like, what?

[Tamara]

Yeah, you have no idea.

[Heather]

He's like, well, that's crazy. I mean, that's like. That's so not like you. I'm confused.

[Tamara]

Yeah, they're accusing me of being homophobic.

[Heather]

Wow. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[Ronnie]

And you know that they're planning this because they automatically have. They automatically have their backup, right? Slate's like, oh, really? Tamra, the lady who made a homophobic slur on camera at me in 2008 when she said I look like a homo for wearing white thong sandals? Okay, yes, that was terrible too. I'm not letting Tamara off on anything. That was 2008. This was last year. This is right now. Slavery. Like, come on.

[Heather]

Yeah. Yes, exactly. So, so then Slade's like, I mean, she made a gay slur. When you search Tamra and gay slur, she comes up on the Internet. Well, of course she comes up because you typed in her name, you idiot.

[Tamara]

So Gretchen's like, I agree.

[Heather]

So she goes back to the table and it's awkward. And Tamara's like, did Slade give you any good advice? She's like, well, he just said he knows it's absolute bullshit. And he said, you don't have to defend anything. Like, you literally have to defend so much right now. Like, please do not go to Slade Smiley for PR advice right now.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, Slade also said you didn't have to pay your child support, and that's still why you can't marry him, you idiot. So Heather's like, well, that's where he's wrong though. That's where he's wrong. And Gretchen's like, okay. And Heather goes, yeah, you do have to explain. If you want your friendship to. To last, you do need to explain. And she's like, man, you guys gotta understand, this is brand new information to me. No, it's not. And you must have known that this to come in some shape or form. You need to be better prepared, you know?

[Heather]

No, I think the. The issue is that she knows she has this in the past, but she thought it was never something that was going to wind up on the show, and so that's why it's new information. So Tamara is like, I don't Think.

[Tamara]

Heather wants to hear what you have to say. 12 years I've been tormented. 12 years.

[Heather]

So Heather is really bad. And Gina's like, I think she wants to hear something else from you, you know? And they're like, we're going to go. We're going to go. So they're all going to go. And Jen's like. Like, you need to defend yourself, Gretchen.

[Tamara]

That's the fucking problem.

[Heather]

I tried to give you the biblical thing.

[Tamara]

You didn't even take that. Defend yourself. She's like, but I did defend myself. She's like, no, you didn't. I mean, this is sad.

[Heather]

Even I, Jen Badranti, can see that you're not defending yourself.

[Ronnie]

I even gave you a Bible as a weapon. Just swing at people and you still wouldn't do it. Like, I handed you the weapon.

[Heather]

Yeah. And she's like, and then you called Slade. That's the worst thing you could have done is call Slade. So then they basically get a different car for Gretchen. Yeah.

[Ronnie]

They're like, she's not coming in this car. So Jen's like, you know, she needs to tell everybody, I did not do this, which she did do. But they're not going to believe it. So Tamara's. Gretchen comes to get in the car, and Tamara's like, no, no, no. And Emily's a Gretchen, you need a separate car, honey.

[Heather]

And now Gretchen finally gets some fire. Now that Gretchen realizes that she's being iced out by the cast, she's not gonna be in the sprinter van. Now suddenly she. She's able to summon the emotion that she should have had. Had the outrage that she should have had if she were truly innocent.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. She's like, okay, well, that's fine.

[Heather]

I understand.

[Ronnie]

But you guys, you don't. You know, it's not what I believe in. Like, you're doing this to me, and Heather's, like, doing this to you. And she's like. She starts having a fit, a tearless fit, screaming, like, you guys, why are you doing this to me? I don't know where this is coming from. I've never seen it. I mean, I don't. You know, this isn't who I am, Heather. Why would know. Why would I have all these people in my life? And she's like, I don't know. And then they're basically like, leave. And then those tears. There's no tears. Her. She just turns around and act.

[Heather]

Yeah. Dry face.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. It's like these people. And walks off to her own car. And, I mean, I think we pretty much See the fakery right there. A loser.

[Heather]

So then Tam is like, do you.

[Tamara]

Guys understand why this entire year I've been so. She's not a good person?

[Heather]

Oh, yes. This sounds like this. These homophobic likes have really been weighing heavily on you, Tamara, which is why you didn't mention them at all. At any moment, she. You didn't even allude to. Thing you do. Tamara didn't even do her class.

[Tamara]

If they're like, I met things. I've seen things, and it's not good.

[Heather]

She didn't even do that.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, and. And saying like. You see what I've been saying this whole year? This whole year, we've seen you trying to make up with Gretchen and make a truce with Gretchen. And just today in this episode, you made a friendship pack with Gretchen. So stop, Please. Get off the ally head. You're not like the queen of the allies here, okay? The only reason you give a shit is because you can hurt Gretchen with it. You don't win. You are just gonna be a glass.

[Heather]

Speaking so much truth today. Like you are.

[Ronnie]

People are such fucking hypocrites. I can't. Especially with Tamra. It's like, congratulations. It's like you called the fire department when the house was already burnt down.

[Heather]

Commercials.

[Tamara]

Here comes one right now.

[Heather]

So now it's the next day, and everyone's in the car going to the airport, and Gina kicks off the scene with a variation on her trademark. I felt awful about the way that dinner went.

[Ronnie]

I felt wall. And that was like. I didn't sleep until 3:45. She's like, but I went in the actual. Oh, God. This really. This is when I started losing my mind. I know I've already lost my mind today. I'm trying to stay calm. I know I'm not really staying calm. When I told myself going into this, I wouldn't go too crazy today, I'm trying, okay? But watching the show, this is.

[Heather]

Everything you're saying is so. Everything you're saying is so true, and it's so real. And I think you just. I think you're doing great things, but.

[Ronnie]

I'm just like, okay. Veins don't pop out. But this, when I. Watching the show, this is what really killed me. When we saw what they were gonna do, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Bravo. So Gina's like, well, I went to the actual pages of the People, and she does follow accounts. Okay, case closed then. Because honestly, some of these accounts are so disgusting that even that is enough for me to convict but she's like. But then I went to the post that she supposedly liked and I can't find one. Really? Maybe it's because this was all in the press recently and Slade went back and unliked every single post.

[Heather]

Yes, duh. Exactly.

[Tamara]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, they're like, what, over a year old?

[Heather]

And he was like, yeah, but like.

[Tamara]

You can't find the actual proof.

[Heather]

Proof. So what sort of proof did you get when you ran Katie off the show? Just. Just wondering. So Tamara's like, exactly.

[Tamara]

Did she just go? And unlike these accounts.

[Heather]

So Emily's like, well, I don't know. That's the question. You can't just sit across from someone and accuse them of doing something without knowing for sure. And then here we are judging her reply. And maybe she was just in shock and didn't know what to do. And basically like, like Emily says that Gretchen's response did bother her. But like, we have to decipher what happened in real time without a lot of information. I mean, really, this was not like one post that someone doc this. It's like an enormous, an enormous amount of screenshots that are out there.

[Ronnie]

Also, this argument doesn't work that you're processing this in real time because you've had these posts for two to three weeks. By your own admission, Tamara gave you this information two to three weeks ago. So if you really wanted to do all this proof and you really wanted to do all this, why weren't you looking this shit up then? Then why are you only looking it up now? You're acting like you're, you're acting like you never had time to do this. You've had these posts for over a year.

[Heather]

So Emily is like, I'm just gonna go to sleep and wake up the night. You just can't like, just wake up smiling, happy about this. So Heather feels, you know, she's like. Feels bad. Like she feels terrible because it's a triggering conversation. And she obviously like saw red when it all happened. And Heather's like, you know. But she's also a friend for a long time, so I don't know know. Gretchen's always been really kind to me and my family. I would hate to ever accuse someone of something that's not true. Yeah, I have to know what they, what they've talked. I have to know what they talked about in the off season that made Heather follow Gretchen again. And I'm sure it's going to come out in the reunion.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, who knows? Because I saw a preview for the reunion. And it doesn't look like Gretchen's like, okay, I did say those things, and I'm different. I've learned it's nothing like that. She's blaming everybody else and saying it's all fake, like somebody hacked her or something, something. So I don't know what happened either, but it's cr. It's crazy that that happened. So it'll be interesting to see. But Heather's like, you know, I said, I hope this isn't true. And Gretchen said, it isn't, so I guess we'll find out. And Gina's like, but, guys, okay, it's my finale. I feel really, really, really bad, okay? And I want to bring something based on information that I thought was true, but now I'm not sure it's true. So I don't know. I'm just not sure. Take a look at these. She stills follow and then tell me it's not true. True.

[Heather]

Yeah, it's true. It's true. Sergeant's like, well, I mean, she's saying.

[Tamara]

She didn't do it, you know, so she seemed, like, very confused by it.

[Ronnie]

It's funny.

[Heather]

I wonder if Gretchen thinks that. I wonder if Gretchen feels like she deserves a second chance and for people to understand her. And I wonder if she feels like she's banging her head against the wall because the group has already made a decision about her and now she's been, you know, kicked out. I wonder her. And I wonder if she feels those things. And then she has any sort of reflection about Katie, because of course she doesn't. Of course she doesn't. Not to make it all about Katie, but I love. I love going. I love finding all hypocrites.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. It's just so. Yeah, they're hypocrites. So Emily's like, yeah, she should have said you for Tamber for bringing this up. You guys brought it up, actually. And she was like, this just goes back to the root of the problem, you know? Like, you. You and Gretchen go tit for tat all the time. I'm removing myself. And t's like, oh, so now it's my fault? And they're all like, oh, yeah.

[Heather]

Gina declaring that she's removing herself from the tit for tat between two people is now becoming a tradition on Orange county. Like, every. At the end of every season, I'm going to remove myself because you're such a fudgeing idiot. You get. You get played so easily. You are such an obvious chess piece for everyone on this show. And, like, Every time she announces that she's going to no longer. Longer no longer be part of the manipulations, she just falls into someone else's trap.

[Ronnie]

And it's always right after she does the thing that she was being tricked into doing. It's like you walked in there with the bomb vest, and now you exploded it, and you're like, well, I'm not doing that anymore. It's like, idiot. So Tamara's like, oh, God, you. You're gonna make it seem like it's my fault? And Emily's like, no. Or just say that you guys keep coming after each other about stuff you see online. And she's like, oh, my God. I don't want to be a around her. Like, I don't fight with her. She's a terrible person. And Gina's like, you know, they. They go on about this, and Tamara's like, you know, how much am I supposed to take from this girl? Like, all these things she can say about me? And I just sit back, no. Checkmate.

[Heather]

Yeah. So now she's like, I'm not destroying.

[Tamara]

My life, and Gretchen Rossi will never destroy my life because I have a good life, and I'm not out here lacking things.

[Heather]

So Gina's like, well, she feels the same. Well, that was a really good speech, Tamara. She feels the same way, and now look at the position she's in.

[Tamara]

Well, maybe she did it to herself, because maybe karma's a.

[Heather]

So now.

[Ronnie]

So now we go to one week later at Gretcher's house. So Slade's like, how you holding up, honey? And she's like, oh, I'm trying to pretend I'm okay. And she's so depressed because her friends are questioning her, and, you know, she should have thought to say at the time, show me the post. Not a screenshot. Like, I wouldn't ever like something like this. You did, Gretchen. You liked hundreds of things like that, and then you went back and deleted all the likes. And she's like, yeah, the only reason I said I don't think so is because I'm seeing what everybody else is seeing. So, I mean, I thought it must be true. Stupid.

[Heather]

So now Tamara is over talking to Eddie.

[Tamara]

She's like, my biggest concern right now is their retaliation against me and you. 12 years. 12 years we've had to endure this hardship. I can't. I'm scared. Hold me, Eddie. Hold me. I don't want to go down like this. They're gonna attack. When the lights go out, hold the kitchen on a candle, because otherwise, we're dead.

[Ronnie]

After production wraps, some of the women received DMS from a person with information about the show which was not yet known to the public. Let's get him on the phone. So Gina's like, oh, my God, the account is back. And now it has a different name. Yeah, Emily just sent me me a screenshot and they said, I know you don't know who I am. I'm just someone who wants to expose the truth. And Tamara's been leaking details about the entire season throughout filming to bloggers and fan pages. Okay, then why didn't we know about this season? No one knew anything about this season before it came out. So where were these leaks?

[Heather]

No, we know. We knew. We knew that Katie wasn't filming.

[Ronnie]

We knew. I think we knew some other the season was going.

[Heather]

No, we knew. Oh, before the season. We knew that Katie wasn't on the cast trip. We knew that there was a big fight. We knew that there was like, that maybe Katie wasn't filming anymore. So we knew certain things for sure.

[Ronnie]

Oh, I thought stuff like that just came out after. Okay, okay, then reset. So if you want to test my knowledge, feel free. I can prove everything I'm saying. So then we hear the infamous disguised voice on the phone. Like the Jerry spring match.

[Heather]

And like a mustache.

[Ronnie]

So everyone's online. It's like, that Slade, it's totally slayed.

[Heather]

So, yeah, the voice basically is like, I know this, I know that. I think you, you guys went to Costa Mesa. There is a detail about Costa Mesa. It was like, oh, yeah, you filmed it. You filmed at a restaurant in Costa Mesa.

[Tamara]

They're like, costa Mesa. He knows everything now.

[Heather]

But yeah, this person did no details. Specific details about the shooting. And then they, the producers are like, cross cutting between what this person's saying and actual scenes that happened. It was like the end of the Usual Suspects. It's like I'm expecting, you know, Tamara to like, lose a limp and go walking off into the sunset after this scene. They're all just like, shocked. And it's like, oh, my God. Like, Tamara is getting away with leaking info, yet holding Katie accountable for doing.

[Tamara]

The exact same thing.

[Heather]

So the first thing I'm going to do is not call Katie and apologize to her.

[Ronnie]

So one thing I want to point out that we didn't mention is in Slade and Gretchen's thing, one of the last things he said in that scene is, I'm going to get to the bottom of where they came from and I'm going to find out who's the owner of this frickin page. So I think, I think Slade has a lot to do with this, what's going on here at the end, because this totally seems like revenge because Slade could have called whoever this person is and told them all of those details too, you know, but that said, I 100% believe that Tamara was doing this. So I believe that Tamra does it. I think a lot of them do it. I think Tamara's been guilty of this for years and everybody knows it. She got caught in that. She got caught in one of these things with that blonde hair, blue, black heart, Twitter guy who, you know, she was fighting with him over stuff that she had told him and then he turned against her. I mean, she's been having this problem with bloggers and stuff for years. So I 100% believe this about Tamara. However, none of this matters. It's not what we're talking about. The point is Gretchen. The point is Gretchen's posts and now they're all making it that Tamra has been talked. Who cares? We know that Tamra talks to bloggers. We've known it for years. It's. It's a well known, out of the clock. It's not a secret. Gretchen still like those posts. So now what are you guys saying? Are you saying that Gretchen faked all of this? I want to hear you say it.

[Heather]

No, I don't. I actually, to me, I didn't see this as like anything that like negates what Gretchen did. I think it's just showing that like it's saying, you know, Tamara is messy also and that they. I, I feel like it's a weird, like a weird resolution for Katie. Honestly, I think it was their way of saying like, lick. And look at what Tamara does too. Now. Tune in next week for the reunion. I think that's kind of what it was. It was like a. It was like a little something to queue up the reunion. Be like, let's give it. Let's get them to her girls. Okay. But I did, I actually really like.

[Ronnie]

To do with getting Gretchen and Slade off. Although it did probably get him off watching Tamara finally get her at the end.

[Heather]

I really liked your theory that you said earlier because of course I didn't think of it. It didn't even occur to me. But I like your conspiracy theory that the producers were angry that Tamara brought this onto the show. So the revenge is that they're going to expose Tamra for being. For leaking to the press. I think that's like a pretty good, you know, conspiracy theory. BTS But I didn't. But it did not the scene. Regardless of that theory. Irregardless, I don't think the scene read to me as a. You know what? Like, we shouldn't. We shouldn't be. Let me start over again. This. The scene did not read to me like it was exonerating Gretchen. It just read to me like. Like, you know what? Tamra is acting high and mighty, but she's also down there in the dirt.

[Ronnie]

Okay, well, they sure get Tamara at the end of. At the end of this. Although I will point out, just to be fair, there is no proof except this one person's word. Where's the screenshots? Where's the text? Where's the dms? So I don't know. I believe that.

[Heather]

So mad at you. Heather gets so mad at you that you messed up her line.

[Ronnie]

Well, Heather doesn't even bring them. Heather's the one who made up the whole receipts proof timeline. And she has none of that in. In Salt Lake City. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that next week.

[Heather]

I. I think I would like going forward. And I said this at the end of the Salt Lake City recap. I think that Bravo needs to reign in some of this, like, who leaked what to the press. I just don't think this is the most compelling content. And I think it's actually. Actually a little toxic for these shows. Salt Lake City is fine because Salt Lake City is so funny. They can argue about anything. But I think it gets away from the central premise of what watching a Real Housewife show is about. We want it to be about dynamics amongst the women. And yes, of course, arguing about who. Who leaked what does bring out those dynamics. But I just think it's a. It's too much stuff about stuff that happens in between seasons and off camera. And I don't think it's a good move. I think it was bad when it happened on Beverly Hills. I think it's bad when it's happening now. I think it puts Salt Lake City in a risky position. So I think going forward, I would love it if Bravo kind of when these things happen, Bravo says, we're not talking. We're not fighting about that. It's too abstract or have like a.

[Ronnie]

Zero, you know, have like a zero tolerance thing where if you're caught doing it, you're fired.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ronnie]

And that's it. It, you know, like, do something to put a stop to it instead of leaning into it and making it a plot line on every single show. Because I think you're right. It's like, enough.

[Heather]

Yeah, it's too like. Like the. The best parts of the show is when we see someone say something or do something about their life or whatever, and then people react to it and it becomes a thing. Like, the most compelling seasons are when a friend stops being friends with someone else and starts being friends with someone else. And you and we. And we weigh in on why did that friendship fall apart? Or, oh, this person's not treating this person well. But like, h. But to like kind of like every week have to weigh in on who leaked? What did they leak? Are we on their side? It's actually a bit tiresome for me. Like, it's. It's not a. It's not a debate that I fundamentally care about. I actually don't care who leaked what, because ultimately I think they all leak. I think they all say things and I don't. Like, I. I'm sort of sick of having to guess whether or not did. Maybe Katie said it as, like, she didn't think it was a big deal, or maybe she said it like this, then was misheard. This, like, how many times I have to talk about a game of telephone. Like, I think it's time for Bravo to definitely, like, tighten up this ship across. Across the board on all their shows.

[Ronnie]

I agree. Just to play devil's advocate, though, the social media. The social media. Social media has been another character on this show for years. I mean, we even have a character on this show named Social Media because before they could say Twitter and all of that, that they would say, you know, we've. We heard this from somewhere, someone. And so we would always say, and now the bitchiest housewife of all time. So Shaw Madea comes to the stage because it was always a character on the show. Like, what you got caught saying about. On whatever. They didn't even allow them to say Twitter or whatever forever. And then once they started allowing it, it made it. It was kind of cool at first because it was like, oh, now they're calling. It's like behind the scenes stuff where it's like, okay, now they're calling themselves out. Out about the TV show stuff, which is interesting. I think that brought a really interesting dynamic. But it's. Yeah, I think it's gotten to the point where it's just like, it's the whole show now. It's. Every plot on every show is like, who's talking to some loser on Twitter, you know?

[Heather]

Yeah. And like, I don't mind if there's drama that, no offense from Twitter, not.

[Ronnie]

Calling you losers, but you know what I mean.

[Heather]

Yeah. But like, you know, if someone, if Whitney Rose goes and writes a tweet that's obnoxious, let's say. And then Lisa Barlow sees it and gets annoyed at her. Her. That's fair. Like, because that's, you know, social media. We, we live in a world with social media. We participate in social media and that's, you know, because. But we can see tangibly that Whitney wrote something. Lisa read it, she was upset and she reacted. And that like that is a dramatic stake. That makes sense to us. But if it's all like you spoke to someone and then they said this thing about a thing and I can't believe you said that. That. It's just, it's too, it's too in the shadows and it's also too much about the show itself. And I just don't, I don't. It's just not compelling to me anymore. I, I'm. I'm a little over it. That being said, by the way, I love this season. Everyone hates this season. I love this season. Even with this dark ass finale. I thought this season was great. I was actually very much into it. I thought it lost steam after Katie left, but I still really enjoyed it and, and I'm hopeful that it is our swan song for Emily and Regina.

[Ronnie]

I think it's going to have to be a swan song for a lot of these people. I don't see how Gretchen is going to come back from this. I don't see Tamara is going to come back from this. You know, I don't see them getting rid of Tamara, but I don't. Al. Also don't see how they're going to keep her after this. I think Emily, I think Heather may be just done. Heather didn't even bother pretending to live in Orange county and her end card said she's not even going to try. It's like she ain't back to Orange county. So, so she. That's two hours away. I mean, that's not like some close drive. It's not like just being in a, in a burrow, you know, in a suburb that's another city. It's. It's far away.

[Heather]

So I think, I think, I think we start with Emily and Gina and then we see how the rest of the show fares. That's what I'm, That's. Those are my notes. I understand that Heather lives in Beverly Hills, but she, look, she attended. She showed up. Tamra, I think, is our villain. I think we keep Tamra. We don't get rid of our villains. Otherwise you wind up with a Heather and Gina situation. Again. Again. Shannon. I would like to see less wackiness season. But like Shannon, you know, I. You always keep Shannon. She's always gonna have something going on. And I think they bring back Katie. I think. I think they will bring it back. Katie is such a fan favorite that they bring back Katie. Gretchen not coming back for sure. I don't think they can bring back Gretchen. And I don't know, maybe they'll give Lydia another shot.

[Ronnie]

Lydia. Oh, God.

[Heather]

That's all we. Maybe Becky.

[Ronnie]

Oh, God. That's all we need is more. More of that.

[Heather]

That.

[Ronnie]

But yeah, I mean, I guess. Look, I just have to finish this season by just giving a nice solid you to Gretchen. Off Gretchen. All right. Thanks everybody for being with us this season of Real Housewives of Orange County. We will of course be back for the three part reunion extravaganza to see what bullshit they're going to try and make stick to the wall this time. We will talk to you next week, everybody. Thanks for being here.

[Heather]

Here. Bye. Watch what crap. INS would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King. It's always a party on Alice in.

[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

Knockout It's Katie Manock we love him.

[Heather]

Madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock G It's Lisa H We're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron she's a whiz It's Liz Sarthy always killing it.

[Ronnie]

It's Lola Al Kalani the incredible edible Matthew sisters She eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meatballs It's Rebecca Clyde Maximum love for.

[Heather]

Sandy Maximoska she's the queen bee It's.

[Ronnie]

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[Heather]

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[Ronnie]

Tessa V she ain't no shrinking violet cootar we love you guys.

[Heather]

Foreign.

[Ronnie]

If you like, watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.