#3075 RHOSLC S609 Part 2: Fight or Flight Response

Summary

Watch What Crappens – Episode #3075: RHOSLC S609 Part 2: Fight or Flight Response

Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Air Date: November 12, 2025

---

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode continues the in-depth, witty recap and analysis of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City (RHOSLC) Season 6, focusing particularly on the aftermath of a chaotic plane ride home from a cast trip. Ben and Ronnie break down who was the real villain in the onboard drama, why off-camera fights hit different, what “bullying” means in the Housewives context, and how this scandal intertwines with ongoing rumors and shifting friendships. They also tackle a juicy sub-plot: revelations about “open marriages” and evolving relationship rules among the women. As always, the hosts employ sharp humor and dead-on impressions, keeping the episode lively and hilarious.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fallout from the Flight from Hell

• Plane Drama Breakdown
  • The major focus is the explosive confrontation that happened off-camera on the plane ride back, centering on accusations that Meredith and Lisa bullied Brittany for hours, with Heather and Whitney as witnesses.
  • Ben and Ronnie emphasize how things feel different when they happen off-camera:

    “It’s different because it’s off camera. Because on the boat you’re making content, you’re making a TV show... But on the plane it’s like, okay, cameras are down... Our job is to be brutally honest right now... But sitting behind someone on a plane and just talking about them for four hours? There’s a level of nastiness to that...” (Ronnie, 03:50)

• The "Bullies" Debate
  • The hosts debate if Lisa and Meredith were truly “bullies” or if Heather and Whitney (the “bad weather” duo) are exaggerating:

    “My general stance is it’s in the middle of what all these people are saying. It’s certainly not as innocent as Meredith is making it sound... but it’s not as vile as Heather and Whitney make it sound, because they’re Heather and Whitney.” (Ben, 06:40)

• Mary's Reaction as a Litmus Test
  • Both hosts flag that even Mary (who usually can't stand Brittany) was shaken enough to take her side, seeing Mary as a key barometer of how bad things truly got:

    “I think the most damning thing is Mary. The fact that Mary is taking up for Brittany speaks volumes... she seemed genuinely upset and scared... Like she’d seen a ghost.” (Ronnie, 09:49)

2. Different Accounts – Who's Lying? Who's Embellishing?

• Whitney & Heather’s Version
  • Whitney describes the event as “the most unhinged, vulgar thing,” with Meredith “pouring fuel on the fire” and demanding evidence of an alleged TikTok (05:39).
  • Heather claims, “I feel the trauma in my body. I feel like I’ve been hit by a truck. A trauma truck.” (Heather via Ronnie/Heather impression, 12:19)
  • Yet, Ben is skeptical:

    “It was so bad. It was so bad, this vortex of bullying that you went to sleep? That doesn’t make sense.” (Ben, 12:48)

• Lisa’s Denials & Distancing
  • Lisa, talking to her husband, insists that she just heard Meredith “saying all this mean stuff...but she was being so loud."
  • When Ben hears this, he pivots:

    “Shit, Meredith did it. Meredith was 100% guilty.” (Ben, 07:55)

  • Ronnie theorizes Lisa might be trying to avoid blame herself by distancing from Meredith:

    “She’s trying to create distance because she knows it was a bad look and she’s trying to be like, ‘Yeah, I’ll throw her under the bus, that way I don’t get any dirt on me.’” (Ronnie, 08:28)

• Flight Attendants & Physicality
  • There are allegations of physical intimidation: chair shaking, hair pulling, “wine being splashed”—though proof and consistency vary by narrator.
  • The hosts note “if it was that crazy, where’s the video at?” and call out the absence of any footage given modern times (Ben, 17:02).

3. Subplot: Marital “Arrangements” & Open Relationship Talk

• Whitney and Heather open up about discussing “arrangements” and open marriage dynamics with their husbands, with much double-talk and denial.
  • Heather: “I want to evolve with Todd, and I need him to evolve with me…” (22:16-25:06)
  • Whitney: “We talk about it, especially when we’re on the outs...but we don’t do it.” (23:38)
  • Both hosts delight in the awkward, veiled confessions, likening them to an O.J. Simpson “If I Did It” scenario (25:10).

4. Angie’s Family Heritage Story

• Angie, in a side story, pushes her daughter Electra to embrace her Greek heritage and compete for Greece in the Olympics, leading to a tense and emotional discussion about immigrant family expectations.
  • The scene is dissected for both its humor (Angie’s “Greek everything” obsession) and touching moments about generational identity.
  • Ronnie:

    "Angie basically sitting her daughter down and being like, ‘I've been thinking about it and I think I want you to be an Olympian. And you have to represent Greece’...is a wild thing to drop on your daughter, who's just like, I'm just trying to get back on TikTok." (32:21)

5. Heather vs Lisa: The Post-Plane Showdown

• Heather and Lisa meet for what is supposed to be a reckoning, but it rapidly devolves into stubborn denial, finger-pointing, and petty sniping.
• Quotes capture the dynamic:
  • Lisa: “No, I did not yell at yo. I did not yell at yo. One time, okay? And I did nothing to Brett, NASA.” (40:49)
  • Heather: “You deserve support. You deserve dignity. You deserve—rhymes with Mister.” (15:03)
  • Both: “You can fucking leave then!...You fucking bitch? You can't do this to me. So I'm drinking my juice. You know what? I'm not even gonna leave, then. I’m not gonna leave. I’m gonna drink my juice.” (46:51-47:07)

6. Mary vs Meredith: The Intervention Energy

• The final scene: Mary nervously confronts Meredith about the plane drama, urging her to take accountability and gently insisting, “for your wellness,” Meredith should apologize (54:00). Meredith continues to minimize and deflect, blaming others for exaggerating, and denying physical or vocal aggression.
• Ronnie observes, “The tenor of Mary’s confrontation is not ‘you’re lying,’ but ‘I am concerned for you’...” (52:00)
• Meredith: “Lisa was sitting next to me and she knows what happened...it’s a big nothing sandwich...” (53:00)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s different because it’s off camera. On the boat you’re making a TV show. On the plane it’s like, okay, cameras are down...but sitting behind someone on a plane and just talking about them for four hours? There’s a level of nastiness to that...” – Ronnie (03:50)
• “I feel the trauma in my body. I feel like I’ve been hit by a truck. A trauma truck. Does that make sense?” – Heather (via impression, 12:19)
• “If it was that crazy, where’s the video at? Someone would have taken a damn video.” – Ben (17:02)
• "You literally are accusing her of murder. That's terrible, Lisa." – Heather, mocking housewives' escalation (42:36)
• “Angie basically sitting her daughter down and being like, 'I think I want you to be an Olympian, and you have to represent Greece,' is a wild thing to drop on your daughter, who's just trying to get back onto TikTok.” – Ronnie (32:21)
• “The most damning thing is Mary...she seemed genuinely upset and scared...she was rattled, like she'd seen a ghost.” – Ronnie (09:49)
• “If everybody tells you you’re dead, lay down.” – Ben (55:19)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:50] – Why off-camera fights are fundamentally nastier, difference between show fights and “real life” bullying
• [05:39] – Whitney’s retelling of the plane drama: Meredith’s “unhinged” behavior and Lisa’s fuel
• [09:49] – Significance of Mary taking Brittany's side
• [12:48] – Ben pokes holes in Heather & Brittany’s narrative: “It was so bad you went to sleep?”
• [17:02] – “Where’s the video?” – Skepticism about flight incident extremity
• [22:16–25:06] – Open marriage and swinging talk between Heather and Whitney
• [32:21] – Angie and Electra’s Greek heritage standoff
• [39:00–44:00] – Heather vs Lisa confrontation, Heather calls out Lisa’s role, Lisa denies everything
• [47:43] – Mary and Meredith’s intervention-style lunch
• [54:00] – Mary gently urges Meredith to apologize, focus on “wellness” and accountability
• [55:19–56:29] – Wrap-up: Summary judgment on who was at fault; speculation on forthcoming apology lunch

---

Final Host Opinions & Wrap-Up

• The hosts ultimately side with a “truth is somewhere in the middle” stance: Lisa and Meredith were mean, Heather and Whitney are probably exaggerating, and Mary’s troubled demeanor lends credibility to the seriousness of the behavior.
• They express appreciation for the cast’s willingness to show honest conversations about marriage and family, and call the episode “everything I wanted” and “the best of the season.” Both push back on the notion that Housewives is past its prime; they call RHOSLC and Miami this year “fucking killer.”
• As always, the episode ends with shout-outs to their Patreon backers, and reminders for upcoming live shows (skip).

---

Summary Table

| Segment | Time | Highlights/Quotes | |----------------------------|-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Plane Aftermath Analysis | 03:50–09:49| “ It’s different because it’s off camera...there’s a level of nastiness...” | | Contradictory Accounts | 12:48–17:02| “It was so bad...you went to sleep?” “Where’s the video at?” | | Marital Arrangements Talk | 22:16–25:06| “We don’t do it. Of course. We don’t even think about it.” | | Angie & Greek Identity | 32:21–36:09| “...wild thing to drop on your daughter, who’s just trying to get back on TikTok.” | | Heather vs Lisa Showdown | 39:00–44:00| “You can fucking leave then!... I'm gonna drink my juice.” | | Mary Intervenes w/Meredith | 47:43–54:00| “I feel like you don’t [remember]. I’m concerned for you.” | | Final Judgments/Opinions | 55:19–56:29| “Somewhere in the middle...she should apologize...if everybody tells you you’re dead, lay down.” |

---

Tone and Language

This summary preserves the hosts’ irreverent, comedic, and incisive style. The episode is rich in deadpan asides, impression-driven banter, and classic Crappens snark. The tone swings from empathetic (Mary’s intervention, generational pain in Angie’s scene) to hilariously flippant (“Did you prepare this dog food on the same counter as gluten?”) throughout.

---

For anyone who missed the episode, this recap covers the main arcs, key quotes, shifting alliances, and captures the comedic Crappens spirit that makes their Bravo podcasts a must-listen for fans.

Transcript

[Ben]

This time of year, it's sensory overload everywhere. But one feeling we're still chasing Cozy and Bombas has the socks, slippers, tees and basically everything to get you there.

[Ronnie]

They're really stepping up their footwear too. New colors, new styles, fluffy things, suede things. If you've got feet, they've got something for em. And I love putting on a fresh new sock. That's one of my favorite things. When you get brand new socks and you put them on and you're just like walking on clouds. I love it. And Bombas really delivers on that front.

[Ben]

And head over to bombas.comkrappins and use code crappins for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com crappins code crappins@ checkout.

[Indeed Ad]

Don't just fill a position. Find the ideal candidate who will drive your business forward. For qualified candidates who match your needs, try Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com wonderyus just go to Indeed.com wonderyus right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com wonderyus Terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the Right way with Indeed.

[Against the Odds Ad]

What would you do if the ocean vanished, only to come rushing back towards you as a 30 foot wall of water? In this season of against the odds, rel extraordinary stories of survival during the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the deadliest on record. Listen to against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ronnie]

Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens? Hi everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of a two part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. So that way you always get your episodes. But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode. And now we put a pin in all that because now Mary and Bronwyn go to lunch. Okay, Actually, it's not a pin because it's Mary and Bronwyn and Mary. They sit down and Mary's like, you were wise beyond your years for not traveling back with us. She's like, was it awful? Pure chaos.

[Heather]

She's like, couldn't have been that bad.

[Ronnie]

She's like, from the time we boarded.

[Heather]

The time we sat in our seats.

[Ronnie]

Meredith Started going in on Britney and, you know, I have my own things with Britney, but I feel like, you know, at the end of the day, right is right and wrong is wrong. I mean, you have. Let's also not overlook this, Ronnie. Mary hates Britney. Hates her. Thinks she's a waste of space. She doesn't like talking to this person. And even she is taking up for Britney in this situation. So that's. Yeah, that's a bad sign.

[Ben]

Yeah, I mean, look, I don't doubt that Lisa and Meredith were monsters on that plane. I'm just. The thing I doubt is the level at which Heather and Whitney take it to. You know, they just take it to this level. It's like she was screaming at the top of her lungs for four hours straight and na, na, na, na, na. And that's where I'm like. But you can tell just how Meredith is reacting, that she's guilty, you know, of some of this. I definitely was smiling.

[Ronnie]

Shit.

[Ben]

I guess my thing is, I just don't understand Meredith doing this on the boat and everybody being fine with it. And Heather running around screaming bitch at somebody. And telling her she's guilty of all of this stuff that this lady's claiming she didn't do to the point where she's sobbing and Heather's still going at her constantly. I don't understand how all of this stuff is so different. Like, they're all acting like they're on some moral high ground, but it's different because it's on a plane.

[Ronnie]

It's different because it's off camera. Because on the boat you're making content, you're making a TV show. But, but on the plane it's like, okay, cameras are down, you know, like, union rules ot assist, I guess. Okay, can't work this many hours. I, I actually genuinely think it's kind of like, okay, like the. When, when you, when people are being ridiculous on the boat, there I think there's some element of. Because we're on camera. This is our job. Our job is to be like brutally honest right now. And we're going to be confrontational. But it's all in purpose of providing a story for everyone. Even though it's our truth, but it's also like we're, we're going to communicate in a way that's different than our normal communications. But now it's like we are, we're. We're recovering. And I think also there. I think the. I think sitting behind someone on a plane and just talking about them for like four hours is is there's a level of nastiness to that that is different than kind of like a confrontation at a table, you know, where you can say, well, I was mad, but, like, really, like. Like, the word bullying gets thrown around a lot and almost too much. Not almost definitely too much on Bravo. But this situation, it does hearken back to some classic, you know, middle school bullying. And I think people are reacting to that.

[Ben]

Yeah, agreed. So then we go to Whitney and Justin golfing, and Whitney is bending over, touching her toes in her little skirt, trying to get attention from Justin. And again, it doesn't work, which I felt kind of bad. So I was glad for that scene later where Whitney's gonna go get some from somebody else because she's really trying with this guy, and he's just like, whatever. So then she starts telling him about what happened on the plane, and she's.

[Whitney]

Like, that was the most unhinged, vulgar thing. Meredith Foster fricking mind. And when she started going for Brit Britney, and then Lisa was just in her ear pouring fuel on the fire. And then she'd look over to Brittany and be like, you up. You owe Meredith an apology. You up. Yeah. And then she'd look at me and be like, whitney, give us your phone. Show us the proof the tick tock doesn't exist. You guys are liars.

[Ronnie]

Now, I do believe that there is a world where the tone. Lisa may have said those words, but the tone could have been slightly different. Not to be a Lisa apologist, but this is more like, I take everything that Whitney says with a grain of salt. I can imagine Lisa being like, britney, you really up on this one. You need to apologize. Yeah, you really need to. As opposed to you're up. Like, it could have. It could have. It could have gone both ways. And, like, Whitney is really good at misinterpreting things. So in this case, I'm like, okay, I'm taking this one with a grain of salt. But that being said, I do think that Meredith and. And Lisa were. Were again, being Dixie.

[Ben]

I think. Yeah, I think. Look, I think my general stance is it's in the middle of what all these people are saying. I think it's somewhere in the middle. It's certainly not as innocent as Meredith is making it sound, but it's not as vile. And Heather and Whitney are going to make it sound because they're Heather and.

[Ronnie]

Whitney, you know, And I think that, like, no matter. And no matter what Meredith says, Meredith frames it as, I was just venting to Lisa about my feelings. It's like, well, Britney's right there. Like, you're being mean. It doesn't matter. Like, Meredith Marks is one of my faves. But like, this is a mean moment for her. This is a real mean moment for her.

[Ben]

So then we go to Lisa and John and of course she's eating like Wendy's nuggets and dipping them in the sauces and stuff.

[Lisa]

And she's like, oh my God, that was like so crazy. Yeah, like Meredith lost her mind, you know, and she's my friend, like, I love her so much, but you know, she was like crying. She was so hurt. And she didn't talk to Bretne. She was just saying all this mean stuff about Britney. Like, to me, but she was being so loud.

[Ben]

And he's like, but you weren't saying anything, right?

[Lisa]

She goes, no, I would never, I would never. No, I would never. But, you know, like, I don't know. Like, I've never seen Meredith that upset, you know, And I've seen Meredith mad, but I've never seen her that upset.

[Ben]

Okay, so now Lisa. So now I'm starting to change because Lisa's. We've seen how Meredith has gone off on Lisa and it's been ugly. And Lisa kind of deserved it too, because that was after the, you know, bathroom venting thing caught on Mike situation that Meredith's dad died. Yes. And Meredith lost her shit on Lisa. So now this is where I start to change and I'm like, oh, well, if Lisa is saying that Meredith was that crazy, then now I don't know. Now I'm stumped. Now I'm like, shit, Meredith did it. Meredith was 100% guilty.

[Ronnie]

Or at least is trying to create distance because she knows it was a bad look and she's trying to be like, yeah, I'll throw her under the bus that way. I don't get any dirt on me. But I, I, I agree with you. I, I keep on sort of playing out all the different scenarios. I like to, I like to voice out all the perspectives because I know there'll be people who say, but what about this? And so I'm sort of trying to like, hold room for all the perspectives. But I do think ultimately, yeah, I think like, Meredith was. At the very least, Meredith was talking shit about Britney right there, right behind her back where Brittany could clearly hear it. And it was not a nice thing to do. It was not. I mean.

[Ben]

Well, see, that changes my opinion though, because if she was just talking to Lisa, even if she was doing it loud enough that Britney could Hear. And she's like, fuck this girl. I don't mind that because Britney just brought on the camera that her husband's cheating on her. So to me it's like, well, you know, you bought the ticket. Sit for the show. That's how I feel about that. But if Meredith was screaming and yelling and for four hours straight and wouldn't stop and was shaking her chair and throwing wine on her and pulling her hair and Lisa was behind her abusing her as well. Yeah, that's totally different. That's bullying. So it's so hard to have an opinion because I don't know that I believe that it was that extreme. So I can't say they were bullies because Britney kind of deserved it. But then on the other hand, if they were that extreme, then they are bullies. So it's just hard to say. And I'm flip flopping not because I don't have an opinion, but because we don't have all the information.

[Ronnie]

I think the most damning thing is Mary. I think the fact that Mary is taking up for Britney speaks volumes. And I think Mary's entire demeanor in the final scene of the episode, which we'll get to, I think that also spoke volumes. She seemed genuinely upset and scared. Like, she seemed nervous, almost not nervous, but like she, she, she had this, her, her entire body language and her voice, everything about her seemed like, oh, I'm not telling you. Like, you need to check yourself. She's like, are, are you okay? Because what I saw was alarming. She was rattled, like she'd seen a ghost. And I feel like that, I think.

[Ben]

That was because it was a drug. I think in Mary's mind that was a drug and alcohol conversation. And I think they're like, well, Mary's going to be the one to have this conversation because she's got this, the thing going on with her son. And if anyone's going to have a drug and alcohol conversation, we're going to make it. We're going to make Mary do it. And so I think why would they.

[Ronnie]

Need to have that conversation? But why would they have that conversation?

[Ben]

Because she was.

[Ronnie]

Because it's like if she was merely just like talking shit or merely just like whatever, but like it was obviously bad enough that on some level we believe that, that people felt there was, there was some other greater thing happening. So that's bad.

[Ben]

So anyway, yeah.

[Ronnie]

Over at the Grand Hyatt, Brittany joins Heather.

[Heather]

And Heather's like, I was so scared.

[Ronnie]

That you were going to cancel.

[Heather]

I kept checking my Phone. And then I remembered you're just a friend of. You're desperate for any camera time you can get, so welcome.

[Ronnie]

How are you? I feels just like a stupid question to ask.

[Heather]

I'm so sorry.

[Ronnie]

You know, it's an even stupider question.

[Heather]

How about this one? You want to change seats?

[Ronnie]

God, I hate stupid questions.

[Lisa]

Oh, my gosh, Heather.

[Whitney]

I just feel like I've hardly slept. I haven't eaten.

[Ben]

She's like, oh, my gosh.

[Whitney]

That's not how trips should end. Sisterhood trips especially. And there's no sister stances that would even justify the way that you were treated.

[Ronnie]

So Brittany's like, I seen this.

[Ben]

Also a battle of the teeth. It's a battle of the add ons. What do you call the add on teeth? Where people put the add on teeth on. What are those called? Dentures.

[Ronnie]

Veneers.

[Ben]

Veneers. Yeah. It's a veneer fight. They're both like, what do you think?

[Whitney]

I was very hurt. Really? You were hurt? Tell me about it, sister. I was hurt.

[Ronnie]

It's like dueling pianos. So Brittany is like, no, it's hard.

[Heather]

For me to even talk about it. You know, I just. I can feel the trauma in my body. I feel like I've been hit by a truck. A trauma truck. Does that make sense? I wasn't listening. But when I saw that Lisa and Meredith were seated next to each other, there's something crazy. There's a crazy vortex of bullying that.

[Ronnie]

Happens when they're together.

[Heather]

They just feed off each other. And I saw it happened, and I assumed they would settle down. And then as you were shedding those.

[Ronnie]

First few tears, I went to sleep.

[Heather]

Did anything else that anything happen while I was asleep?

[Ben]

But then this is where I start going the other way. It was so bad. It was so bad, this vortex of bullying that you went to sleep? That doesn't make sense. So Brittany's like, well, it just got so out of control, Heather. Like four hours, and they were still at it. Hair pulling. She goes, what happened with Meredith when she got to. Got up to go to the bathroom and she said. She grabbed my seat and just shook it like this.

[Ronnie]

I'm not gonna lie, Dick move. But kind of a hilarious image of Meredith taking an airplane chair and be.

[Heather]

Like, you dig it, bitch?

[Ben]

Excuse me? Just trying to get up, you know? And so she was screaming, this one. This one.

[Lisa]

And Heather's like, yeah, I think that's when I woke up in a haze.

[Ben]

And I thought you were laughing because.

[Whitney]

I saw your chair shake.

[Ben]

And. Okay, so if you saw her chair shake, wouldn't you see Meredith standing up and shaking the chair?

[Whitney]

And I think Lisa said, you fucked up.

[Ben]

You fucked up.

[Whitney]

Show us the video.

[Ben]

Give us the video. And she goes, oh, so you heard her say that? And she's like, yes, I heard her. And that's when I think I'd woken up. And I said, what are you doing? Leave her alone.

[Lisa]

And then they both came at me full force.

[Ben]

And Brittany doesn't say, like, well, thanks for saying something.

[Ronnie]

So she just says, I just felt.

[Heather]

Like, really vulnerable, and I think they were just trying to make me feel really small. And I'm just really disappointed in myself that eventually I started crying, and I just didn't want them to know that they broke me.

[Ronnie]

And she says that the flight attendant kept on checking on her, and they're.

[Heather]

Like, are you okay, Ms. Bateman?

[Ronnie]

Is there anything we can get you? Ms. Bateman, are you okay? Ms. Bateman, can I get your autograph? I loved you. And Miss Saigon. Miss Bateman. Yes. I saw the off. Off Off Broadway, Osaka version, and you were wonderful in it, Ms. Bateman.

[Heather]

And I'm just like, yeah. I'm like, they, like. They gave me water and I don't know. I just can't believe Lisa would turn on me like that.

[Ronnie]

I was just.

[Heather]

I've been so good to her.

[Ben]

Yeah. I've just been so good for her. I've defended her when she. When she wasn't even there, like, fiercely. And she says, you know, she wasn't only egging it on, she was part of it. And she was kicking my seat, and she told me to my face that I deserved it. And she says, you know, she's just as culpable as Meredith. And I don't know, I just keep saying that I'm the unsinkable rubber ducky.

[Lisa]

But I feel really broken.

[Ben]

And Heather's like, you deserve support.

[Whitney]

You deserve dignity. You deserve. Rhymes with Mr.

[Ben]

Sister Vine.

[Whitney]

We are women.

[Ben]

And so she starts doing the whole thing, and she's like, when there is.

[Lisa]

A line between right and wrong, I.

[Whitney]

Choose the side of right, and I'm on your side.

[Ben]

I was like, okay, bad weather. You're ganging up on people and bullying them is totally up your two's alley as well. But she's like, I'm here for you.

[Whitney]

We are going against them together.

[Ben]

So the lines are drawn in the sand.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. She literally is like, if there was any, like, back and forth, there's any sort of, like, on the fence. Don't worry. I am firmly on your team. And this is also just as great because now I can use this against Lisa. So now we go to Braunwyn and Whitney. So this was. This is this. They go to a place called Le Depot, which I thought was where we had performed at the Depot, because there was like a fancy restaurant next to the Depot. So I was like, oh, my God, they're at the restaurant next to where we went. And then it wasn't at all because of course I looked it up and it was in Park City. I was like, oh, womp, womp. So Whitney, she is like, oh, my.

[Heather]

God, Bronwyn, you missed the flight from Hades. She's like, oh, my God, what happened? Okay, so the person that. Tell me, tell me. It was a lot.

[Ronnie]

So, well, I. I went and I.

[Heather]

I had dinner with Mary and she told me a little bit about it. Oh, really? Why did she say. Well, she said that Meredith freaked out.

[Ronnie]

On the plane and went ham on Britney for hours.

[Heather]

No, they didn't serve him.

[Ronnie]

That's.

[Heather]

It's an expression.

[Whitney]

Meredith was completely unhinged. She was taunting her and terrorizing her and Britney was a puddle. Yeah, Lisa was yelling at her too, and saying, you fucked up. It was ballistic. I don't know if it was fueled by alcohol, sleeping pills, I don't know. But it was pure rage.

[Ben]

And so Bronwyn's like, yeah, I don't know if this is exaggerated because the TSA would have done something. So this is weird. And someone would have taken a video. So for once, I'm exactly on the same page as Bronwyn. Like, if it was that crazy, where's the video at? Someone would have taken a damn video. Yeah, absolutely. So then we see. So then Bronwyn's like, well, apparently Todd and Meredith have something in common. Need to be reminded of flight etiquette. Now, I don't know if you saw, if you saw, but it on Twitter that people are accusing Todd of getting caught on a plane cheating on me. Yeah. Yep. I landed Salt Lake to a mess on Twitter and Todd was on his flight to New York and someone's caught him looking at photos of women on his phone. It happened. It happened.

[Ronnie]

She and she. Her mhms are bigger than they've been all season. She's like, you know what? I've decided I'm going to do the Watcher Crappens impersonation of me right now. They were like. She was doing like a big and shaking her head. Like, I'm surprised her forehead didn't knock over a Glass of water. So then we see all these tweets from this scandal of Todd. Todd being caught on a plane. I mean, this is. I'm always amazed by people who do such brazen things like this. Like, why are you. You are now a public figure, sir. Why are you looking at pictures of women? And why are you flirting with women on your phone and a public space, you dingbat.

[Ben]

So sat behind Todd Bradley on a flight from SLC to jfk. Todd was looking at a photo and text of mysterious woman in lingerie, Tom Bradley. Todd Bradley was spotted on his flight looking at women who weren't his wife. I mean, that's a nothing burger to me. Someone sitting there looking at. At pictures of hot women on their phone. I mean, well, but it might sound.

[Ronnie]

Like he was corresponding and so corresponding. And so either way, it's. This is. This is fuel for the fire.

[Ben]

Have an affair anymore. I mean, I swear to God, people are just everywhere with their fucking cameras. Leave me alone. Look at whatever dirty pictures I want. I paid for this seat.

[Whitney]

It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Against the Odds Ad]

Picture this. You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line stretching as far as your eyes can see. Then the line starts to rise, but it's not the horizon at all. It's a wave. A 30 foot wall of water, and it's racing straight toward you. On the day after Christmas in 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

[Ben]

Do you believe.

[Heather]

Do you believe this random person?

[Ronnie]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Yeah, I do. Because they knew where Todd was sitting on the plane and they said they were sitting behind him. And they were. And they. They knew what flight he was on. And when he came home, I was like, what, what, what, what's this? On Twitter? And he goes, what's Twitter? And I said, it's, it's, it's actually a. It's a social media thing. And he goes, what's social media? I said, you know, it's that thing that's on your phone. He says, my Palm Pilot doesn't have.

[Ronnie]

Anything on its phone except for a calendar.

[Heather]

And he said, isn't that great?

[Ronnie]

And I said, no, Todd, we have to talk about the affair.

[Heather]

And he goes, what affair? Because it's not on my calendar, which is on my Palm Pilot.

[Ronnie]

You see that?

[Heather]

My Palm Pilot has a calendar. Isn't that amazing technology? I said, it's very nice, Todd, but I'm trying to talk about something important. He goes, what's more important than the fact that we finally got a calendar on a phone? This went on for hours.

[Ben]

And then he goes, well, ask your friends, because they love to dabble in this kind of gossip and nonsense.

[Whitney]

He said that?

[Ben]

And it's probably them. He said. And I was like, no, no, no, no. Head shaking now.

[Whitney]

Head shaking now.

[Ben]

Absolutely not, Todd. Absolutely not.

[Ronnie]

She's like, gotcha. You were gonna make me feel bad.

[Heather]

About getting into a fight with Lisa.

[Ronnie]

Barlow, as Brick did, but then you're the one who is sort of having an affair, so guess what? I get to be the winner.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So then it changes over. Then everything changes. So she's like, well, yeah. She's like, well, when I got this screenshot tweet, I was furious with him, you know, because he had a business trip and blah, blah, blah, but, you know, we needed some space, so we got out of there, and I think they're just making. You know, I think what they're saying on Twitter is that he was talking to someone behind my back, and they were sending him photos, and if it was someone sending him photos and we talked about that ahead of time, it wouldn't even bother me.

[Lisa]

Yeah. What do you think of that? Because I don't know that I could.

[Ben]

Say that to anybody else in this group of friends, but you are the one who is a swinger and got fired for putting chocolate all over your ass on camera with your husband. So I think you and I are on the same page.

[Heather]

Huh? What? I'm shocked. I'm shocked. Yeah. Because I think, yeah, you know, if Todd said to me, I'd like to sleep with other people or I'd like.

[Ronnie]

Us to do it together, I would.

[Heather]

At least try it, you know? Look, I don't want to be. Want to be done with Todd. I want to evolve with Todd, and I need him to evolve with me. Okay? So. But.

[Ben]

And Whitney's like. Whitney's eyes are so wide.

[Whitney]

She's like, oh, my God. Does he understand that?

[Heather]

Well, I don't.

[Ronnie]

I don't think we're all the way there yet.

[Heather]

I mean, he's just learning about text messaging, but, like, so. But we're working on it.

[Whitney]

So wait a minute. So what is the agreement?

[Heather]

Well, that's what irritates me is that we don't actually have one.

[Ronnie]

And I would rather.

[Heather]

When Lisa says, oh, I heard Todd was making out with someone, I'm like, I bet he was. And I picked her out for him. I mean, what else? I mean, theoretically.

[Ronnie]

I mean, I didn't actually do that.

[Heather]

Did I do that?

[Ronnie]

You want what?

[Heather]

You want to say something before I say more? Because I feel like I'm giving a lot.

[Ben]

Yeah. So she gets saucy.

[Lisa]

She's like, oh, yeah, I picked her out. What do you think of that?

[Ben]

And Whitney's like, whoa.

[Whitney]

Well, I understand that fully because I went through it with Justin, because we got a lot of friends who do that. You know, they're like. They swing and have arrangements and stuff. Well, we call it different lifestyles. And, like, you know, obviously, with our age difference, we talk about it because he's old and so is Todd.

[Ben]

They're disgusting.

[Whitney]

So, you know. Yeah, so I need an escape hatch. So we talk about it, especially when we. When we're on the outs.

[Ben]

You.

[Whitney]

But we don't do it.

[Ben]

Of course. She's like, oh, yeah, we don't do it either.

[Whitney]

Yeah, we don't do it.

[Ben]

No, me neither. Absolutely not. We don't even think about it.

[Whitney]

We don't even think about it. So when we talk about it, we're like, what's the rules?

[Ben]

You too?

[Ronnie]

I actually. I actually couldn't follow it that much. I was, like, trying to follow it. I was like, are we talking theoretically? Are we talking about. This is the rule? Did you, like, were there extracurriculars? Are there not extracurriculars?

[Heather]

Just, like, I just always want him to get home safe, and I always communicate with him, and I just think, like, life is meant to be lived and marriage is sacred. So that's why I'm getting back on the pole. Okay.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

So she says.

[Ben]

She says, basically, the friends. She's like, justin and I talk about it all the time, Especially when we were about to break up. We talked about opening the relationship, and, you know, when my friends do it, they have to have all these rules. So, you know, you have to have rules, and the minute you break the rules, then you're going against the marriage. But, like, just doing stuff and having rules, that's not really breaking the marriage. Like, I mean, I always Tell Justin, you know, don't worry. I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna be safe, and I'm gonna get home fine. And then we communicate the whole time, and that's what makes it okay. Not that I do it, but, you know, if I did it, it would be that way. I would text him and say, I'm gonna be okay. And I'm. It's this whole big, long monologue where basically she's saying, we don't do it, but we do it. And when we do it, it's good because we keep in contact with each other. If we did it, which we don't.

[Ronnie]

Do it, it's like the O.J. simpson book that almost came to be.

[Ben]

If I did.

[Ronnie]

If I did it, this is how I would have done it by O.J. simpson.

[Ben]

And Bronwyn's like, well, you know what? I'm happy. And I know you're happy with Justin, and I'm happy with Todd, but, you know, it also has to work, and frankly, most of the time, it doesn't. Okay. Have you tried to do a helicopter on Walter Matthau? Okay. It's not easy.

[Heather]

And we need to be evolving in the same place in the same direction at least. And Todd can do what he wants to do, and I can do what I want to do, but we need to still be in a partnership when we get to where we want to go. 100%.

[Ben]

Dolphin outfits are not the only thing I've been inflating in that household.

[Whitney]

Okay.

[Heather]

You know, I knew you'd understand, because it's not that I want something so different, but, like, a little change. Of course, you correct a bit. You course correct a little bit, and it goes really far off, and we need to be going the same place. And I'm just. Keep speaking vagaries until your eyes glaze over, because I think you're losing the thread now. Yeah, well, there's just been times where I thought, like, I wanted something different, and Justin thought he wanted something different, but then we wanted the same thing, but it was different, and then I wanted something different, and then I was like, prism. And he was like, what? And I was, like, communicating through it. Like, we went to therapy, and, like, we got to the brute of why we were feeling that way.

[Ronnie]

The brute?

[Heather]

Yeah. You mean the brunt? Huh?

[Whitney]

Who's that? Yeah, but you know what? So, like, you know, we fucked other people and stuff, but then we went to therapy, but then we realized we're our partners, so we didn't ever do it.

[Ben]

You were so full of it. And she says, but when my kids are out of the house, you know, I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want.

[Whitney]

And she says, I'll invite you to my parties.

[Ben]

And Bronwyn was like, mm, mm.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Ben]

By then, we'll be deep in our own arrangements, so I'll come back. So I thought this whole scene was pretty fascinating. I can't believe that they did it. And it seemed kind of impromptu, and I loved it. I loved every second of it. And, you know, I think, you know, I'm not, like, the hugest. They're not, like, my favorites, but I was proud of them for this scene. I thought it was good. It's nice to hear some real honest, ish discussion about modern times and what a relationship in modern times is. I was like, you go, girls. Drinking mild. No shame. It was just, I wonder if Christina.

[Lisa]

Applegate has a problem with this.

[Heather]

So then we go to.

[Ronnie]

By the way, buried in this was this scene, which I also thought was quite compelling. And it's Angie. And so she is wearing a Greek flag, of course, because it's Angie.

[Whitney]

I can't.

[Ronnie]

And Angie is helping Elektra pack for a trip. And by the way, this whole scene takes place Electra's cute little bedroom. And it's so funny because she has all these ribbons up on the wall, which is like.

[Ben]

It's.

[Ronnie]

I don't know why the ribbons crack me up. But my favorite part is that there's, like, this little. There's a picture of. What's the name of the dog? Celia. Or something like that. Or Celiac or something.

[Ben]

Celiac.

[Ronnie]

That dog.

[Ben]

Did you prepare this dog food? On the same counter as gluten, but.

[Ronnie]

There'S a picture of the dog. It's like a photo of the dog and the dog just sitting there with, like, pink ears. Like, it's just, like, on this shelf on the side. I just thought it was so funny that she has this giant photo of the dog right there. And it's in the background of the entire scene. Elektra's having this whole, like, ugh, mom scene. And the dog. The picture of the dog is like, hey.

[Ben]

So Angie is helping her pack, and she's going to her next horse show, and she's trying to be nice to her daughter, but her daughter is in that age where she clearly hates her. And she's like, well, you need suntan lotion. You know, that is why I get so many compliments on my skin. Do you think I have nice skin? Okay, well, for an older lady. I do so, son. Buck. And don't forget to reply a midday. Why, hello. Would you look at me? And she's like, leave me alone, Mother. Do you like my sweater? Did you notice it? She's like, yes, I noticed it. How could I not fucking notice it? It's a gigantic Greek flag, Mother. I see it.

[Ronnie]

I know. By the way, I mean, let's also applaud Angie for some brutal honesty because we just had a scene where Whitney and Bronwyn were saying some truths that we never thought we'd hear on the show. And now here comes Angie. She said the words older woman on a housewives show. I don't think you're even allowed to say that. Like, what? What are you talking about? Older woman? Hahahaha.

[Ben]

I know. I'm surprised it wasn't bleeped out.

[Ronnie]

I know. So Angie's like, do you see the Greek flag? I don't like it, Mother. Well, I was thinking, a lot of sports are Olympic sports, and your sport is one of the most beautiful sports in the world. Imagine if you continue on, you could actually compete in the Olympics for Greece. What do you think of that, Angie? Just putting Elektra on an Olympic track out of nowhere. For Greece. For Greece.

[Ben]

And she's like, why? I'm American. Why would I be on an Olympic team for Greece? That doesn't even make sense. And she's like, but your grandfather is from Greece. And, you know, isn't that great? She's like, I mean, I don't really care. And she goes, well, Elektra's like, yeah, like, papa didn't immigrate for me to represent Greece. And she's like, well, I'm sure that wasn't on his radar. At 17, being a Greek is in your roots, and that's when your ancestors are from. And I can relate because when I was 13 years old, I thought about being Greek or being American and none of this stuff even crossed my mind. But the fact is, you are Greek. I'm aware I am Greek. I'm aware we are Greek. I know, Mother, stop saying Greek.

[Ronnie]

I have to say, when she said, when she said Papu didn't immigrate for me to represent Greece, I was like, damn, that was cold. That was so cold. Papu was like, I literally did that. He's like, when I was 13 and I moved to America, I thought, someday I'll have a granddaughter who'll do equestrian and represent Greece in the Olympics. So Andy's, you know.

[Ben]

But it is true. It is True. I think. What? What? I think that she has a point. I think the kid has a point. I mean, my family immigrated here. My grandparents immigrated here. And it was very important for them for their children to be American. You know, they were full blood Lebanese, but they wanted them to be American. So they didn't teach them the language. They didn't teach them. You know, they grew. They grew up only being American, and it was very important for them. They're like, we escaped that for this, so we want you to be proud of this. And all my cousins, all of us, have a lot of pride in being Lebanese. We know the food. We, you know, we try to get into the culture and stuff like that, but the wishes of our grandparents were to be Americans, you know, So I can kind of see what she's saying where it's like, okay, well, this is all kind of latent. Like, we're also American, you know, And Angie found pride later in life. And a lot of people do, I think, especially Greek people, you know, because I've known a lot of Greek people, and there is no taking that away. You know, they love being Greek. They're very into being Greek, as they should be. But, you know, I can see how.

[Lisa]

The kids are like, what the.

[Ben]

Leave me alone with this. You're like, you didn't even start this until you were on the show, and now you're on this show. You got popular for talking about being Greek, and now everything about you is a Greek flag. I think it's probably how Electra feels.

[Ronnie]

I think. I think, actually, I mean, honestly, Angie. Angie basically sitting her daughter down and being like, I've been thinking about it and I think I want you to be an Olympian. And you have to represent. Greece is like a wild thing to drop on your daughter, who's just like, I'm just trying to get back onto TikTok. It's like, guess what? You will now be doing this on an international stage for Athens. So, Angie, though I have to say, as crazy as the request is, Angie is like, she's. I think this is an incredibly sweet scene, and it's like, very moving. She's like, elektra, it's an honor to have roots in a country that started civilization. I'm like, well, it didn't start civilization, but, like, democracy, maybe. But let's. Let's relax here a little bit. She's like, every time we go there, you've gotten to see where Papu is from and all the hardships he went through, and you're sitting in this beautiful house with a roof over your head, with food, with hot water, with shoes, with a mattress that's three counties wide. All the things that Papu never had. Do you know why you're riding that horse that costs as much as my Porsche? She's like, what?

[Ben]

It does. I'm selling this shit the second I get a chance.

[Ronnie]

Yes. And I think just the thought of having all of this because he didn't makes me even more grateful for the country that he came from. That is why I'm considering becoming a dual citizen. And I am going to be joining the Olympics in. I'll be joining the Olympics in doing Olympic level perms. That's why I've been practicing.

[Ben]

So Elektra just standing there, ready to twist the knife is like, yeah.

[Whitney]

Well, I think I resonate more with.

[Ben]

Dad's side of the family history because Papa's a trainer and Papa's grandpa was a trainer. I'm into horses. And she's like, I was not raised around horses, so it hurts to know she's more connected to something I didn't even know about. But I want her to embrace being Greek and the heritage and the culture. And I'm hoping that it's just a phase and that she comes back around. And Electra's like, I mean, like, you.

[Ronnie]

Even know about Pegasus. We literally have flying horses in Greece. I mean, come on.

[Ben]

One time I said, knock, knock. And she said, who's there? And I said, olympia Dukakis. And she said, olympia Dukakis who? And it broke my heart.

[Ronnie]

It broke my heart like a plate on so many floors. So Electra's like, you're forcing the Greekness upon me and also America, quite frankly. And, like, you won't let me go anywhere with that. Do you want me. You let me wear anything but Greek. Okay. And you don't let me wear anything. Everything I have to have wear is Greek. And you have Greek mugs. You got Greek sweaters. You make me take Greek lessons. You make me go to freaking Greek church. I have to go to Greek Starbucks.

[Heather]

I literally have to travel to Athens to get Starbucks once a year.

[Ben]

She's like, but guess what? I had to do those things, too. And do you know, at your age, I didn't want to go to Sunday school. I didn't want to go to Greek dance. I didn't want to have to go to Greek school. But now I'm glad I did it, so. Do you know how many people wish they were Greek? They do. And I spent my whole life saying My dad was an immigrant, and I didn't say my mom was an immigrant because I didn't go to my mom's village. And so she's talking about how she wasn't really, you know, knowledgeable about her mom's history, and she doesn't want Alexa. Alexa Elektra to feel the same way. And she's like, okay, I got your point. It's not like I like Dad's side more. It's just like, I do what they do. It's like, you know, I'm dad, and you're just like, over there. You know, it's not bad. I mean, you can be over there, but like, I'm over here. Stay over there.

[Ronnie]

Heartbreaking.

[Ben]

She's like, oh, yeah. And you just see Angie's heartbreaking. And I saw a Reddit post and I didn't read the whole thing, but it said, I just realized that Angie named her daughter after a Greek character that hated and then murdered her own mother.

[Ronnie]

I know. It is. It is kind of funny. Elektra is a really crazy choice. Like, what about, like, Persephone? Well, Persephone gets dragged down to hell, but, you know, Hira Athena, really something. Nia Vardola. Anything but Angie Mia. The whole name.

[Ben]

Nia Vardelis.

[Ronnie]

That's her whole name. So Angie is like, I support that. I just want to share with you why this is really special to me. And I think it's going to mean a lot to Papu, and I think one day it's going to mean a lot to you. Elytra's like, okay, maybe in the future. Maybe in the future.

[Ben]

Maybe one day I'll give a shit about you, Mother. Okay, come here. Give me a Greek hug. God damn it. Mother.

[Ronnie]

But poor Angie. She looks like she's going to. She. She is. When she's talking about wanting to, like, she says, like, you know, she's just. When she's saying that she hopes that Electra comes around to it, like, you can. She's literally choking up. And actually, I thought was. I actually thought it was a pretty beautiful scene.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie]

Oh, look at that. Look at that.

[Ben]

Little Dolma Bueller was very upset by it. My little grape leaf.

[Lisa]

So now we go to Heather at Marmalade Cafe Marmalade.

[Ben]

So she gets a table, and we see the time passing. It's 11:10, then it's 11:35, then it's 11:57, then it's 12:15, now it's 12:26. And then enter Dorit Kemsley.

[Ronnie]

I know, right? So It's Lisa. Lisa meets Heather.

[Whitney]

Hi.

[Ronnie]

How's it going? Yeah, that was a lot.

[Heather]

It was a lot because Heather's just.

[Ben]

Giving her this look. Like, really? Because she doesn't even come in.

[Lisa]

Like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry I'm late. There was so much traffic from temple or whatever. Like, it was nuts. Like, there were so many wagons on the road, you wouldn't even believe it. But I'm here now.

[Ben]

She doesn't even do that. She's just like, hi.

[Lisa]

Okay, what do you. How are you doing?

[Ben]

Heather's like, you. You seriously just made me wait for you for an hour and a half.

[Ronnie]

Seriously. So Lisa's like some. Meredith was, like, upset and I just wanted to soothe her. Just didn't work. It was a lot.

[Heather]

I mean, I just wanted to talk about the whole thing because, like, from where it started to where we're at now. Because Britney doesn't want to be around you. Isn't that terrible? Britney doesn't want to be around you.

[Lisa]

But why May? Why May, though? But why May?

[Ben]

But why?

[Heather]

Because you were. You were like.

[Ronnie]

You were.

[Heather]

You were. You were terrible to her. You were horrifying.

[Lisa]

No, no, I didn't do anything to her. I didn't do anything to Britney. You know what I just kept saying?

[Ben]

Send her the fuck.

[Lisa]

Tick tock. That's all I said. Like, I didn't do anything to her.

[Whitney]

Lisa.

[Heather]

You kept telling her, she up. You said, you up, Britney. Show us the tick tock. Show us the tick tock.

[Lisa]

Being a bad woman. No, all I said was, send her the tick tock.

[Ben]

Okay?

[Lisa]

Because it started when we got to the airport and Meredith started, like, freaking out. Like when we were going through Barbados, like, we had to get our bags and she was, like, freaking out about it.

[Heather]

Well, you know, first of all, you'll forgive me if I wasn't paying attention in Barbados because I was trying to find my Internet friend Rihanna, one of my favorite dmers, and I was distracted. But from what I could tell, you were gagging up on Britney during the sisterhood time.

[Lisa]

No, I didn't gank up on her. I don't do that. I don't do it.

[Heather]

It felt like we were trapped in a plane and you guys wouldn't stop and you guys were egging her on. You were antagonizing Lisa.

[Lisa]

No, she did not say that. No, she didn't say that.

[Ronnie]

Horrifying.

[Ben]

Horrifying.

[Ronnie]

It was like, you know what?

[Lisa]

Heather's trying to let me into this. Like, what the fuck? You know What? You're not my God, okay? And you're not my judge, okay? So who the fuck do you think you are? Like, who are you? Meredith wasn't even talking to her.

[Ben]

You know what?

[Lisa]

First of all, Meredith was yelling at me about her the whole plane ride. So she was, like, just getting, like, so upset. And she started, like, screaming at Whitney, like, where's the TikTok? Where's the TikTok? So I just leaned over my chair, and then, you know, like, she was in front of me, so I was like, brittany, where's the fucking TikTok? Just give her the TikTok. And then you guys had a problem with that. You know, somebody else should have stepped in if you had a problem. Where was everybody else?

[Heather]

I did step in. I stepped in by looking over and then going to take a nice, long, not long, nap. And I was sound asleep until the very end.

[Ronnie]

And you guys were yelling at me.

[Heather]

Is what woke everybody else up. You were yelling at me.

[Lisa]

No, I did not yell at yo. I did not yell at yo. One time, okay? And I did nothing to Brett, NASA.

[Whitney]

Stop it.

[Ben]

You know what?

[Lisa]

You can't order me. You can't order me. Ben.

[Whitney]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

Baskets. And then accuse me of stuff like that.

[Heather]

Why? Well, at first of all, I think we all agree these are the best beignets we have here in Salt Lake City.

[Ronnie]

And there's no other booze.

[Ben]

These are, Ben. Your booze.

[Lisa]

How dare you?

[Heather]

These are.

[Ronnie]

There's no other establishment in the city that does a Ben that's even. Even close to this one. I'll just say that right now.

[Whitney]

Whatever.

[Lisa]

I didn't do anything.

[Whitney]

Okay, then what if four women have.

[Ben]

To gather around her then.

[Whitney]

And physically help her off the plane? We had to get her a wheelchair, Lis. We had to get her one of those electronic wheelchairs that took her all the way back to her car.

[Ronnie]

Well, maybe if she'd had some of the beignets at the Vita Premier Lounge, she would have been in a better mood. Cause they're the best beignets in the city, okay? And I was preserving my peace. I don't know why that's so complicated for everybody.

[Ben]

Well, I don't know why someone should.

[Whitney]

Be punished because they don't do what.

[Ben]

You tell them to do.

[Whitney]

Excuse me?

[Ben]

Weren't you just chasing her around a boat, screaming at her and calling her a bitch because she wouldn't confess to something that you wanted her to confess to? I mean, I don't know that you're with the right messenger for this man.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Lisa]

Here comes one right now.

[Ronnie]

So Lisa's like, I'm talking to you as a friend. A friend who doesn't appreciate a good Ben. Yay.

[Lisa]

Well, I'm talking to you.

[Ben]

It's a friend.

[Lisa]

No, but I'm talking to you. No, Because I don't think you. As a friend, yo.

[Heather]

No, you're not.

[Whitney]

No, I don't feel.

[Heather]

Talk to me as a sisterhood.

[Lisa]

Well, then I feel horrible for Britney being upset. But can she take responsibility for anything, though?

[Ben]

Can she?

[Lisa]

Can she?

[Heather]

So it feels like you're saying she deserved it. You're saying she deserved it?

[Ben]

No.

[Heather]

You're saying she's a terrible person. Are you saying that she's a murderer? You literally are accusing her of murder. That's terrible, Lisa.

[Lisa]

No, I'm not saying she did that.

[Ben]

You know, like, the only murder here.

[Lisa]

Is happening to that beignet that you're murdering right now. Okay, you know what? I don't appreciate Lisa.

[Whitney]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And she felt wine being splashed on her. Lisa. And her chair being moved and felt hassled and bullied by you guys for.

[Whitney]

The entire fucking flight.

[Ronnie]

No, we did not hustle and bully her. Don't put me in that statement, Hadar.

[Ben]

Yeah, but I'm telling you how Brittany felt. And that's all that matters.

[Whitney]

Not facts, feelings.

[Ben]

That's what matters in a court of law. So why would she think her chair was being jostled?

[Ronnie]

Meredith said when she got up to go to the bathroom, she grabbed her chair as lavrage to, like, gut herself up. It was just lavrage spilling.

[Ben]

Wine spilling on her la.

[Ronnie]

Raj lawage. It was lavraj. And the wine went on me. It went on me, by the way. She was, like, talking with her huns and, like, facing me and like this and like that. And her Hun was like this and that.

[Heather]

And, like, the wine was on me, if anything.

[Ronnie]

Like, I think we all saw the way that she could control water in the air, and she forced all of it, all the liquid. It went on to me. I was the victim. I got hurt.

[Ben]

Well, it went on Brittany. She goes, no, it didn't.

[Lisa]

It didn't get on Britney. No, it didn't. No, it didn't.

[Ben]

Mm.

[Heather]

Mm. I was on the fucking plane, Lisa. Why are you telling me a different version than what I saw on the plane?

[Ben]

You were asleep half the time, just entering that.

[Lisa]

Yeah, but you know what? I didn't yell at you at all. Like, I was like, she's really upset, you know, and then you were basically telling me to control Meredith, but I can't control Meredith. I mean, you were three feet away from her. Why couldn't you do it?

[Heather]

Well, the second I woke up, I did. I woke up, and then I ordered a Diet Coke and I went back to sleep. I really controlled it. And you know what? And guess what? Meredith was not happy about that.

[Ben]

And she's like, but nobody said anything.

[Whitney]

I got into a huge fight with Meredith. What are you talking about?

[Ronnie]

And so. So this is like, yeah, well. Well, like, you got into a huge fight with Meredith. I don't believe that. Like, what are you talking about?

[Ben]

And she says, you did it after the plane. You didn't say anything on the plane. And Heather's like, no, it happened in the seat. And she goes, no, because I was diffusing her in the seat, and I was the one keeping her away from Brittany. And I don't agree with what she said, and I'm not going to be. And so now she's like, I'm not. I'm not taking blame for Meredith. She's like, I'm not taking.

[Lisa]

You know, I'm not going to be held responsible for what Meredith said.

[Ronnie]

Yeah. So Lisa's just like. She's like, I'm not going to be part of this. And Heather's like, I'm trying to have.

[Heather]

An honest conversation, and you're refusing to engage.

[Ronnie]

Like, no, this isn't an honest conversation. This is an accusatory conversation over Subpar. Ben.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah. So she's like, okay. You know, basically, she's telling her it's the same thing as usual. It's like, you did this, Lisa? And she's like, no, I didn't. And she says that Britney's been a good friend to her in the past, and she's been a good friend to her, but she did come from Meredith in her marriage. So, like, is she going to take any accountability for that? I mean. Cause that's crazy.

[Lisa]

She's like, I mean, she's trying to hurt Meredith and her family. It's, like, mental to me. Like, am I in Willy Wonka's? Like, whatever. Like, what is that? Is it a land that he's in? Like, the Willy Wonka land? Like, I'm like an Oompa Loompa. Like, is like an Oompa Loompa gonna come out? Like, this is nuts to me. Like, I at least want some chocolate. Like, this is crazy. It's like, cuckoo town. This is like, cuckoo town. By the way, I love Oompa Loompas, Ray Dan.

[Ronnie]

They.

[Lisa]

You know, I will credit them for that. But, like, otherwise, this is terrible.

[Ronnie]

I. I loved watching her workshop through. Through that. It's like Willy Wonka's. It's Willy Wonkas. It's like the elevator.

[Heather]

Glass elevator.

[Ronnie]

But, like, the elevator's, like, not made of glass. Like, you're trying to look out of it. You can't see anything. And then you're like, where'd that girl go? Where'd the blueberry girl go? But she's like a blueberry now, so you're like, there's.

[Against the Odds Ad]

Nope.

[Ronnie]

Why is there blueberries in, like, a chocolate factory? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't. It makes sense if you. If you think about it. And, like, Cocoa Puffs. Because, like, Cocoa Puffs are, like, not actually a Wonka property, but, like, I think that they could, like, really merge their brands. That could do, like, a collab for, like, Sundance. I don't know. I'm just, like, thinking out loud.

[Heather]

What are we talking about?

[Ben]

Yeah. So Lisa's like, okay, here I am with Heather again. Like, every time I'm with Heather, she's accusing me of some shit, right? So she's like, I'm done. So she gets up, and Heather's like.

[Whitney]

You can fucking leave. Then I'm just a fucking bitch. You call me a fucking bitch? You can fucking leave.

[Lisa]

And she's like, yeah, you know what, you fucking bitch? You can't do this to me. So I'm drinking my juice. You know what? I'm not even gonna leave, then. I'm not gonna leave. I'm gonna drink my juice.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I'm gonna leave my juice.

[Heather]

Okay, well, you know what? I waited an hour for you.

[Ronnie]

No, no. You're trying to put that on me. Like, no, I was in a different time zone, so I was actually on time in a different time zone, so don't even put that on me.

[Ben]

So Heather's doing this whole.

[Whitney]

Brittany is destroyed. How could you?

[Ben]

And, you know, all I want you.

[Whitney]

To do is be a good friend.

[Ben]

I'm just trying to talk to you. And she's very upset, and, like, is like.

[Lisa]

Well, she's upset with the wrong person.

[Ben]

So then I thought it was over, because this has been, like, an episode a lot of time. We're at two hours right now in this recap. This is crazy. We're, like, an hour 55. So this has been very long. But.

[Ronnie]

No, but then another scene, and guess what plot twist you probably were wondering, why did Ben give that stupid anecdote about thinking that they went to the restaurant next to the depot. And I got all excited. And now Meredith and Mary meet up at a place called Asher Adams.

[Heather]

And.

[Ronnie]

And guess what? This was the restaurant. The fancy restaurant next to the place that we performed. What are the odds? Oh, my God. I was so excited. And I was like, this is the most stupid thing to get excited about. But I was like, I was just.

[Heather]

Thinking about that restaurant, and then they're actually in it in the same episode.

[Ronnie]

Isn't this crazy? And I was like, all the listeners are going to be so on my side with this, and they're gonna be so happy I took them on this journey. And so you're welcome, everyone.

[Ben]

I'm glad that worked out for you.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, it was fun. So Mary meets up with Meredith. Mary is. Meredith is all smiles, say, hi.

[Heather]

Look at this.

[Ronnie]

We're Asher Adam, right next to the depot. I was once there with Ben and Ronnie. And Mary's like, yeah, yeah, so how are you doing?

[Ben]

And she's like, well, you know what I mean? Fine. Great. And she just stares at her. She gives her that look like, go ahead, bring up what you're gonna bring up. Mary. You know, she's just looking at her like, I dare you. So Mary's like, okay, well, I feel like the last time I saw you, you weren't happy. And you know what? I've seen you go off and do the whole. Enough. But this was different than that.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, well, what is it that you think happened? Because I think there's a lot of stuff that's floating around out there.

[Ben]

Well, I don't think that anything happened. I was there, so I saw it happen.

[Ronnie]

Well, the reality is, I was upset. I vented to a friend. Brittany had headphones on. I don't think I even. I don't think she could even hear anything I was saying. Even when I took the headphone off her ear and I said, you dumb. I don't think she heard that. So.

[Ben]

And she's like, well, I think you wanted her to hear you, so that's a new thing, too, that she was sitting there with headphones the whole time. Not that it makes that big of a difference, but if you see someone wearing, like, an iPhone pro with noise canceling, I would assume that they couldn't hear me talking either. I wonder how much I've talked on planes that people can't hear. But anyway, I'm not going to excuse Meredith because I know that she's guilty. At this point, I'm like you're guilty. Okay, just. Just say you're guilty, Mary.

[Ronnie]

So Mary looks shaken. Mary looks shaken. And she looks like. She's like, ah, I don't want to have to have this conversation, but I have to. She's like giving intervention energy right now. So she's like, well, I'll just gonna say it went on. It went on for a minute. It's like wall. It was about 15 minutes. So, yeah, it was more than a minute, but 15. 15 is fine. She's like, no, no, Meredith. She's like, yeah, no, I. I feel a little concerned because I feel like it was a little bit longer than you remember. Wow. Okay, well. Well, look, all I know is I was sleeping and I watched two movies, how to Race in the Rain with the Dog. You know, it's a beautiful movie about a dog. And Amanda Seafried was beautiful. And I slept for over an hour afterwards.

[Heather]

It was.

[Ronnie]

It was a.

[Heather]

It was a very peaceful flight. I barely even said a peep, you know?

[Ronnie]

No, it was. It was longer.

[Heather]

Okay, fine.

[Ronnie]

I watched Mamma Mia. Too, but. And by that, I mean I watched the sequel. I watched both Mamma Mia's. I watched two Mamma Mia's in the dog movie. There, I said it. I watched three movies. Okay, I lied.

[Ben]

And she's like, yeah, I mean, it was definitely longer. She was, okay, so it was 30 minutes then. I mean, there's only so much time on the flight, so how long? And so she. Mary's like, yeah, I heard this. Maybe Meredith is in Mars and we're in Venus.

[Lisa]

I don't know.

[Ben]

And so Meredith is like, you know what? If anyone's telling you different, that's just not the case. And she says, I was there. And she goes, you were sleeping, so please. And she's like, well, but every time I woke up, I heard you. And she's like, well, that's impossible. You were across the plane. She's like, no, I wasn't. I was in the window seat a row in front of you. And she's like, you were still on the other side of the plane, Mary. And she was like, yeah, and I still heard you, so I shouldn't hear you if I'm across the plane scene. And I shouldn't have heard it, but I did hear it.

[Ronnie]

Well, I can't speak to what you could hear or couldn't hear. That's gonna be on you and Mary. What's interesting is that the. The tenor of Mary's confrontation is not. You're lying. You're lying. You're lying. The tenor is like, I am concerned for you.

[Ben]

Right?

[Ronnie]

So she's like, well, do you remember Whitney saying, meredith, please be quiet. People are complaining? Well, she never said people were complaining. She asked me to be quiet, and no one complained.

[Ben]

And.

[Ronnie]

And if I was yelling and screaming, I would have had an air marshal there to arrest me. So thank you very much.

[Ben]

As this is being spawned into something it's not, and I was in my feelings, and I vented to a friend, and that's all there is to it. And she's like, no. Yeah. No. And she's like, it's not being spun into something, Meredith. It's just like we were all there. Okay? We were there. And it concerns me because I want you to remember what happened. And she's like, I do remember.

[Ronnie]

I feel like you don't. I feel like you don't.

[Ben]

She's like, well, I don't. I don't.

[Ronnie]

Well, I really feel like you don't. And I'm not saying that in a tactic kind of way. She's like, I knew.

[Heather]

It's like, well, I was.

[Ronnie]

I was tuned in to you because I was concerned. You're Meredith Marx, and you care how you are projected, and you have an image. But I also think it's important to take accountability and move forward from it. Meredith, maybe.

[Ben]

So Meredith is basically. Meredith says, look, Mary did not see or hear anything because she couldn't see me from where she was sitting unless she. She literally stood up and turned around. She even had headphones on when I got up and walked by her. And I don't know what she thinks happened, but it doesn't line up with what I know happened. And Lisa was sitting next to me, and she knows what happened. And I think Whitney got into Mary's ear and told Mary these things happened, and Mary believed her. But it's a big nothing sandwich, and there's nothing else to it.

[Ronnie]

Let me tell you something. The headphones. The headphones is a weak excuse because. Let me. I've heard so many people over my headphones, noise canceling included. And the headphones don't. They don't push everything away, especially if you are fixating on what someone's saying. You really can hear things. So headphones. Not a great. Not a great defense. So Meredith says, oh, I have no interest in trying to, like, hurt somebody, but she wants to hurt me. She's like, but would you be willing to be like, brittany, the situation was bad, and I apologize. I mean, is that what you think I should Do? Yeah.

[Ben]

She says, yeah, for your wellness, I think it would be healthy. And she's like, yeah, you can't move forward in this group without apologizing. And Meredith says, well, I don't know, I have to think it through. And that's the end. So I was left kind of like, okay, I believe that Meredith and Lisa were acting like assholes, but it's like within the housewives behavior handbook. And so that's why they don't think anything is wrong. I think they're both thinking of it like, well, we, we were just fighting on a boat for three days. Why would this be any different? Like, I just was doing the same thing to her all morning. So I was doing that to her on the boat. So why is this such a huge deal? And I think the point that you made was correct that they weren't filming and so it's different. But I think that's probably how she's thinking of it. It's like, why is this behavior sometimes. Okay, now you guys are acting like I'm the Antichrist. And especially not coming from Mary, but coming from people like Whitney and Heather. I do believe that Whitney and Heather are probably exaggerating this a lot because they're the ones making, you know, Mary said she heard stuff and it wasn't great right at the beginning. But the ones who were saying she was screaming and going ballistic and blah blah, blah were Whitney and Heather. And I never believe Whitney and Heather because they just lie too much. So, yeah, bad weather. So I believe it's somewhere in the middle. I think Meredith and Lisa were assholes and Whitney and Heather are just blowing it up to make them look as bad as possible.

[Ronnie]

What's going to.

[Ben]

But it was mean and it wasn't cool of them to do it and she should apologize and be like, okay, I went too far. You know, if everybody tells you you're dead, lay down.

[Ronnie]

What's going to really suck for Meredith is a having to go step right into BravoCon. And this is the biggest thing that just happened right before the, the weekend. So now she's gonna have to answer all these questions and people be like, what happened? And people like, that was mean. She'll probably deal with questions from the audience. But what also we see the mid season trailer, we see that Mary arranges an apology lunch at Valters and she's basically saying, no one knows how to apologize. So if in fact at this luncheon Meredith gives a heartfelt apology to Brittany, it sucks for Meredith because she knows there's this Heartfelt apology coming up, and she's gonna have to sit through all of this shit all weekend from people being like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And, you know, she's like, I am about to apologize. Just wait for it. You know? But either way, it's still. It's not a great look for Meredith, I think, at the end of the day.

[Ben]

No, and.

[Ronnie]

But it was. I thought it was a fantastic episode. I thought it was, like, everything that I wanted. The best of the season.

[Ben]

It was a great. I mean, I think they've all been so good this year. It's been a great season, a great episode. Yeah, I was some comment somewhere. That's all I do is read fucking Internet. But somebody was like, you know, these shows are past their date. All these Housewives shows are just over. This just needs to end, and blah, blah, blah. They are not over. They're not. I'm sorry. Some of them suck right now. You know, Potomac's not great. I wouldn't say it sucks, but it's like, got a lot of new people. You know, it's struggling. Atlanta's still kind of struggling. OC has kind of hit some stumbling blocks this year, even though it's been an okay season for the most part. Some of them are okay, and some of them are just great. I mean, this one in Miami, both have been fucking killer this season. And I just don't think these shows are over. I just don't see it. I think they're so good people.

[Ronnie]

Shut the fuck up. I'm going to say this.

[Ben]

Ones that aren't great. I still love, you know, like, Potomac, I feel like, is struggling, but I still love watching it. And I still laugh every single time I watch. Watch it.

[Ronnie]

I think Potomac is excellent this season, honestly. We disagree on that. But I think that people need to, like, hush up, because what happens.

[Heather]

This is what always happens.

[Ronnie]

People are not happy with something or another, and then they complain and they say, oh, everything should be thrown out. And then what happens is that, like, network executives are like, oh, no, is something wrong? And then they retool everything, and then we get served like garbage, and then we have to wait for the. To retool again until it's like. Like, right. It's like sometimes you're not going to, like, you were. You may not like certain things. And.

[Heather]

And I say this as someone who.

[Ronnie]

Complained a lot about. About various shows, and, you know, I get it, but don't make it. Don't say broadly that all these shows are over and they. They just need to be taken off the air because you're just reacting because there was something you didn't like. And like, you can, you can not like something. You cannot like a character. You can be bored of the storyline. But to say that all these shows are done. No, no, you're done. These shows are still here and they're vital. They're vital and they're excellent.

[Ben]

You are done.

[Ronnie]

Listen, be careful what you wish for, okay? Because the moments like you network executives do some, do some sometimes. And if you, if you get them touching things that aren't really that broken, you will be ruined the day. Okay?

[Heather]

You'll be a light like Elektra.

[Ben]

You'll be appreciating her day that you said that. All right, well, this has been a super fun one. Thanks everybody for being with us. Join US in Vegas 10pm at Beer park in the Paris Hotel for our crappin's party at Bravocon. It's going to be some good times. We'll see a lot of you there. We'll see a lot of you hanging around Vegas. Go see Amy Phillips show Thursday, Friday or Saturday in Vegas at at the Planet Hollywood Hotel. Tickets are still available. Go to her link in bio at Meet Amy Phillips. Thanks so much to everybody who's with us. We will talk to you with Real Housewives of Orange County.

[Ronnie]

Bye bye. Watch what crap. INS would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King it's always a party on Alison.

[Ben]

Block our ways the Amber way it's.

[Ronnie]

The Foster and the Furious it's Amanda Foster it's always automatic with Ashley Auto. Put your hands together for Carly Clap.

[Ben]

Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt we never miss her call. It's Diane call Big yay. It's Emily Gaultier.

[Ronnie]

Aaron McNicholas she don't miss no Trickolas Hava Nagila Weber you'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go we all go for Hugo Jamie she has no less.

[Ben]

Namey she's our kind of mess. It's Jennifer Messer sipped some scotch with.

[Ronnie]

Jessica Trot she's our favorite streamer Caroline.

[Ben]

Peacock, Kristen the Piston Anderson get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera sera Whatever will be will Lauren Sills be she gets a name from us it's Lindsey D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Leno fresh as a daisy It's Maisie McKinnon, we love her on the rocks it's Melissa Cox, Megan Berg, you can't have a burger.

[Ronnie]

Without the berg this is living with.

[Ben]

Michelle Vivian I love Aya Olivia Williamson.

[Ronnie]

She sure is swell It's Raquel yes.

[Ben]

We can It's Savannah Cast a spell.

[Ronnie]

With Shannon Spellman let's share with Sharon.

[Ben]

Eldridge Darn skippy, it's Tippy and our super premium sponsors make way for AD J. Lopez She's VVIP It's Amanda V Can't lose when you're with Amy Baldwin.

[Ronnie]

Somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy MD.

[Ben]

We'Re taking the gold with Brenda Silva.

[Ronnie]

Let'S get real with Caitlin o' Neal.

[Ben]

Put us on a stretcher It's Charlotte Fletcher don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily.

[Ronnie]

Sides who, what, why, where? And Gwen Pentland let's go into the the woods with Guy Tubbs Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo She's.

[Ben]

A total knockout It's Katie Manok we.

[Ronnie]

Love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock G It's Lisa H We're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron She's a whiz It's Liz Sarthi always killing it It's Lola Al Kalani the.

[Ben]

Incredible edible Matthew sisters She eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meatballs It's Rebecca Cloud Maximum.

[Ronnie]

Love for Sandy Maximoska she's the queen bee It's Sarah Lemke we cannot tell.

[Ben]

A lie It's Sarah Tell of son.

[Ronnie]

Shannon out of a canon Anthony, please don't stop Stop at Solian Pop let's take off with Tamla Plane we're obsessed.

[Ben]

Now with Tessa V. You'll always get.

[Ronnie]

The full story with Tori Parsons she.

[Ben]

Ain'T no shrinking violet Cootar we love you guys. If you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.