#3076 RHOC S19E19 Part One: Golf Clapback

Summary

Watch What Crappens Podcast Summary

Episode #3076: RHOC S19E19 Part One: Golf Clapback
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Original Release: November 14, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Ben and Ronnie dive into Part One of the Real Housewives of Orange County Season 19 reunion, serving up their signature blend of comedic analysis, affectionate mockery, and Bravo-fan banter. Fresh off the energy of BravoCon (and a little ahead of schedule, with a nod to their “hotel room” recording setup), they dissect the cast reunion's aesthetics, feuds, and ever-present self-involvement, with a particular focus on the ongoing beef between Tamra and Jen, accusations of “stalking,” and the barely-contained chaos of the RHOC stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reunion Aesthetics & Opening Banter

• [03:24] The hosts joke about Bravocon, their “hotel room” set-up, and promote a Crappens party and panel at the event.
• [04:38] Reunion Part 2 begins, with Ronnie noting the cast’s bizarrely orange/red appearances, speculating maybe production is “making them look as terrible as possible” to garner pity after a controversial season.
  • "These people look crazy. Maybe they're doing that because by now the audience is kind of frustrated with the ladies..." — Ronnie [05:55]

Initial Fights: Tamra, Gretchen & Gina

• [07:13] The reunion resumes with Tamra and Gretchen in a heated exchange about digging up dirt on each other—a quintessential Housewives dynamic.
• [08:07] Tamra displays “a tear on her cheek,” dramatically playing victim for having been targeted “for four different presidential administrations.”
  • "I've been victimized by Gretzy Massy for four different presidential administrations. I'm a history book." — Ben as Tamra [08:12]
• [08:31] Ben riffs on Andy Cohen’s supposedly “wonky eye,” launching a side tangent about Botox, aging, and the self-obsessions of Bravo stars.

Food Fads, Keto Days & The Board Game Dream

• [09:29] Ben and Ronnie commiserate over low-carb and keto diets, joyfully declaring carbs' triumphant return to their lives.
• [13:51] Ben reveals a dream: playing Catan with Housewives, imagining Angie hoarding sheep and making feta (“I bought Greece!”).
  • "My dream has always been to play Catan with Real Housewives." — Ben [13:59]

The Jen Segment: "Single White Frienemies" & Accusations

• [11:38] The show's focus moves to Jen and Tamra’s complicated frenemy dynamic, with skepticism about Jen deserving her own reunion segment.
• [14:28] The hosts mock the overblown accusations of Jen “stalking” Tamra—buying a house nearby, sharing a hair salon, going to the same gym.
• [18:12] The pair lampoon how trivial these “stalker” claims are, devolving into absurd territory about grocery store lemons and imagined doxxing of addresses.
  • "You were two, two, three, Ted Danson Avenue!" — Gina (as parodied) [18:21]
  • "Why don’t you boil the bunny, Glenn? Boil the bunny." — Ronnie as Gina [20:38]

Jealousy Claims and the Lizzie Factor

• [23:11] Gretchen accuses Tamra of jealousy toward attractive new Housewives, referencing herself, Jen, and Lizzie.
• [24:53] Ronnie explains off-screen dynamics among ex-cast: Lizzie and Gretchen always trying to get back on RHOC, and Tamra poaching Lizzie for her own team.
• [25:05] Various former and less-memorable Housewives get roast shoutouts, including Elizabeth Vargas (“Unbelievable!”) and a winding story about Sally Kirkland and John Travolta.
  • "I know all of this just from seeing Instagram posts. So they've been hanging out for years. They're old buddies. They've been trying to get back on this show for years now." — Ronnie [24:27]

Tamra’s Tactics & the "Fatty Photo"

• [31:49] Renewed argument over whether Jen used Tamra’s old hair extensions. Cue Kelly Dodd for lawyerly adjudication and more reverse cowgirl jokes.
• [32:13] Ronnie likens Tamra’s relentless prodding to a “velociraptor testing the electric fence” from Jurassic Park.
• [34:54] Extended riff on Heather Dubrow’s cabaret act (“I’m just a gigolo… People have something to say about me…”) and cabaret in the Housewives extended universe.

Emily’s Relentless Critiques & Jen’s Finances

• [39:38] Conversation shifts to Emily’s past meanness toward Jen regarding her finances, with Ronnie calling Emily “rotten to the core” but admitting she knows when to dial it back.
  • "Emily was rotten to the core to this woman. Just fucking terrible... unlike Tamra, Emily knows how to rein it in when it’s important." — Ronnie [39:55]

Relationships, Marriage Plans, and Over-Sexualization

• [42:16] Jen’s uncertainty about marrying Ryan, her feelings of “being enough as she gets older,” and the cast’s opinions on Ryan’s over-sexualizing behavior.
• [43:10] Ronnie and Ben parody the Housewives’ boasts about lasting marriages, with Heather smugly one-upping everyone (“29 years, which I guess is significantly longer than you…”).
• [44:12] Another volley of reverse cowgirl jokes—with Heather, Terry Dubrow, and the TV as recurring punchlines.

Real Friendships vs. Bravo Fakery

• [47:27] Jen and Will’s awkward post-relationship interaction, and Gina's accusations about “fake friendships” among Jen, Shannon, and others.
• [47:55] Ronnie shows frustration at Gina for not standing up for her stated opinions and always retreating/deflecting when challenged.

Comedy Careers and Double Standards

• [51:07] Heather confronts Gina over picking on Heather’s comedy career while simultaneously wanting to be a comedy writer herself.
  • "What about me getting very angry in this moment says that I am not a comic actress? Please." — Heather (as spoofed by Ronnie/Ben) [53:02]
• [55:13] The hosts crack up at Gina’s supposed aspirations as a comedy writer, with solemn mock congratulations.

Fun & Games Segment: Pageantry and Pandemonium

• [57:36] Laughter around the “fun and games” montage—including Gretchen’s Lara Croft outfit and Emily’s affinity for riding strippers at the Abbey.
• [60:04] Honest confusion (from Emily and the hosts) about the true function of a cock ring, with clarification via Andy Cohen and plenty of side-eye.
  • "I always assumed it was to make people cringe during gay porn and turn it off because that’s usually my reaction." — Ben [60:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is one of the most aesthetically discordant reunions they’ve ever had.”
  — Ben [06:51]
• “You move your hair too much, corn starts popping out of it. No one wants your hair.”
  — Ronnie [32:06]
• “Tamra brought Jen onto the show. And then Jen’s freshman season, Tamra made her life hell...”
  — Ben [34:34]
• “It’s like a ghost. It was like insidious. But the thing that was insidious wasn’t even like a scary doll. It was the keto diet.”
  — Ronnie [10:27]
• “What about me getting very angry in this moment says that I am not a comic actress? Please.”
  — Heather (as parodied) [53:02]
• “Every season I’m like, when are they going to get rid of Emily? She is so rotten to whoever she’s being rotten to.”
  — Ronnie [39:55]
• “You were two, two, three, Ted Danson Avenue!”
  — Gina (as spoofed) [18:21]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:24: BravoCon banter and party/panel plug
• 05:55: Reunion looks and production shade
• 07:13–08:12: Tamra and Gretchen's argument
• 09:29–13:13: Keto/carbs/food tangent; board games with Housewives fantasy
• 14:28–21:05: The “Jen is stalking Tamra” insanity
• 23:11–25:05: Jealousy accusations and the Lizzie subplot
• 31:49–32:38: The “hair extensions” mini-scandal and Tamra’s relentless needling
• 34:54: Bravo cabaret rankings, Heather’s Richard Marx musical moment
• 39:38–41:13: Emily's mean streak and discussion of Jen's smarts (or lack thereof)
• 42:16–44:12: Jen and Ryan’s relationship and sexual dynamics banter
• 47:27: Jen and Will's interaction and Gina’s “fake friendship” accusation
• 51:07–54:45: Heather’s comedy career vs. Gina’s critique
• 57:36–62:02: Fun and games roundup, “cock ring” confusion
• 62:02–end: Conclusion and sponsors

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Tone & Style

• Playful, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable about Bravo lore, Ben and Ronnie use parody, exaggeration, and comic tangents (from board games to Sally Kirkland anecdotes) to lampoon both the Housewives and themselves as super-fans.
• The hosts’ affection isn’t far from the surface—even as they eviscerate certain cast members (Emily comes in for particular derision this episode, as does Tamra for her circular logic and drama-mongering).
• Quick, witty banter is peppered with over-the-top impressions, callbacks to Bravo history, and genuine exasperation at the season’s themes and personalities.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This recap gives you all you need: the “storylines” covered in the reunion, the central conflicts and personalities at play, the hosts’ unique comedic lens, and the offbeat tangents that spice up Watch What Crappens.
If you want to know which RHOC housewife bought a house near another’s ex, whether anyone stole Tamra’s hair, or the difference between a cock ring and a Prince Albert, you’re in the right place!

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Crappens Quote of the Week:
"I've been victimized by Gretzy Massy for four different presidential administrations. I'm a history book."
— Ben as Tamra [08:12]

Transcript

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

Watch what happens.

[Ben Mandelker]

Hello and welcome to Watch Watch Crappins, a podcast about all my crap on Bravo that we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker, and joining me today is the one and only Ronnie Caram. Hey, Ronnie, how's it going? Well, hello there.

[Ronnie Caram]

How are we?

[Ben Mandelker]

We are doing just great. And Bravocon is in full, full, full swing right now. Anyone who's watching us with crappies on demand are like, wow, you really, your hotel rooms look just like your homes. That's because we're recording this ahead of time. But I'm sure we're having a great time, a great Friday morning here in Vegas. Just a reminder, if you are at Bravocon, be sure to come by on Saturday because we are having a party. We're having a party at Beer park and it's in the Paris casino. It's at 10pm so once all the scheduling is done for the day, all the official scheduling of the weekend of Saturday is done. If you got nothing to do, come on over and hang out with us. We're gonna have a really fun time. So join us for that. And on Sunday, we are moderating the next gen New York City panel. So come join us and just say hi. We love, we love meeting everyone. So really excited for that. And aside from that, I mean, it's another, another week of Bravo comes to a conclusion with a pretty, pretty intense Orange county reunion. Ronnie, what say you?

[Tamara]

Hi.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hi. Oh, what do I, what say you about the reunion? Lots of.

[Ben Mandelker]

Did I not say hi to you at the top of the episode?

[Ronnie Caram]

You did. I'm not being sarcastic. I just had that moment of like, oh, I have to talk now. You know, whenever you do the intros, I get to zone out and check emails and, you know, see what, see what I'm doing over here. And then when you're like, ronnie, talk now. I'm like, I was like, did I just Orange County.

[Ben Mandelker]

Did I just like, launch into the spiel without saying hi to you.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was like, of course you said hi. Come on. Then. I called me handsome. All that good stuff. Yeah, I just, you know, check some emails. Okay. Orange County. Well, let's see. Emily's hair is still big, and Emily still made me morphe. How can you have a show with Tamara, Gina, Gretchen? And I'm still the most annoyed with Emily. How is that?

[Ben Mandelker]

I know.

[Kelly Dodd]

Shut up.

[Ronnie Caram]

No one's talking to you. No one is talking to you.

[Kelly Dodd]

You're a dork.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's just Kelly Dodd from the grave.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, yeah, I mean, that's basically Emily, right? It's just a lower Kelly Dodd.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know why. I don't know why you'd be annoyed with Emily. Is it because she was bragging about how she's doing reverse cowgirl on Shane Simpson?

[Ronnie Caram]

Thanks, bro. Oh, my God. Just giddy out of here. Giddy out. New hip. So let's get into it. Reunion Part 2. Everyone is still as orange as ever, girl. I mean, these people look crazy. I just felt sorry for them all over again. You know, maybe they're doing that because by now the audience is kind of frustrated with the ladies, especially with that finale where it's like all this transphobia and homophobia and we've got all this going on and the getting rid of Katie, and the audience is, you know, rightfully a little bit fed up, and maybe they're just like, let's just make them look as terrible as possible and maybe look. Make them all look like they have a fever. Just make a red set. Make them all look red or orange, and maybe they'll get some pity. It is not working.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, it's really not.

[Ronnie Caram]

I.

[Ben Mandelker]

Everyone looks crazy. This is one of the most aesthetically discordant reunions they've ever had. Just like, the color palette, the lighting. We said it last week, but it really needs to be emphasized yet again. This week just looks crazy. But we start off with Andy, who's in the middle of. Tamaran and Gretchen are fighting still, and Andy's like, hey, but you know, Tamara.

[Tamara]

Don'T you also bring dirt up on people?

[Jen]

Well, what have I brought up recently? Aside from the fact that Gretchen's been a. Ever since she's been two years old.

[Gina]

Yeah, but 15 years ago, Tamara, you brought up lies about me then. So there.

[Ronnie Caram]

And she's like, me.

[Gina]

Me and Vicky, we both walked in, and Gina, Keo saw you, too, and you were on Blank Slap, and we saw you make that with him.

[Jen]

You're such A liar.

[Gina]

You've been coming after me for so long. You've been going after my husband. He been going after me. He been going after my kids. Even the invincible one. I don't talk about you. I don't do nothing to you.

[Ronnie Caram]

This is about you. He's saying, you don't talk about her. You liar.

[Ben Mandelker]

Andy's like, all right. And then Tamara, just like she has this, like, tear on her cheek.

[Jen]

She's like, I'm going to wipe this away dramatically because I've been. I've been victimized by Gretzy Massy for four different presidential administrations. I'm a history book. If you sport.

[Gina]

It's so bad.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Andy's like, well, we have more.

[Gina]

To get into with Tammy and Gretchen later on.

[Ronnie Caram]

I want to move on. Okay. You know, I still do a wonky eyed Andy. Did you notice Andy's wonky eye is gone? What happened? Where'd it go? Did you do that? I have a wonky eye. How do I get rid of my. Actually, maybe mine is gone too. Let me look at mine. Do I still have a wonky eye? Maybe mine's gone too.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, you had. Well, you had like, you know, you had that star and maybe like getting rid of the sty. Got rid of the wonk. I have a one that's like a little. I got one that's like a little. Hangs a little lower, you know.

[Ronnie Caram]

Really?

[Ben Mandelker]

A little wonk? Yeah, just a little bit lower.

[Tamara]

It's got like trying to, you know.

[Ben Mandelker]

The tissue is a little bit bigger there.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, well, his is gone. And I think it's because he finally started getting Botox. And I recently got some boats. Although you wouldn't know. Look how much my face moves. Look how it moves. I've never disgusted. Done it. Well, you don't have to, you know, I just do it to make an effort.

[Ben Mandelker]

All I got is that way I can, like, join in on, like the incessant conversations that happen all the time about Botox. Everyone talks about Botox. And really, I just sit there. Oh, yeah, all you Botox people do it, talk about it all the time. Nonsense.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, it's like you and your. It's like you and the no carb people. It's like, I haven't eaten carbs. Oh, my God, I haven't eaten carbs. Oh, my God, I miss carbs. I miss carbs, too.

[Gina]

I had carbs since before presidential administration.

[Jen]

10 years carbs.

[Ronnie Caram]

Been doing that today.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I'm back at my carbs. I had a bagel today. So the carbs are. The carbs are back.

[Heather]

They're back, baby.

[Ronnie Caram]

Just like you can't even say carbs to a no carb person. Cuz look how you like I say carbs are.

[Gina]

Yes, I had carbs.

[Ronnie Caram]

I had bagels today. Here's what I had yesterday. Here's my food list.

[Gina]

I had some.

[Ronnie Caram]

I haven't had some.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sorry that.

[Ronnie Caram]

I had some straight up sugar on carbs.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm sorry. I spent a month of our podcasting tenure talking about carbs. So one month of our.

[Ronnie Caram]

Listen, no, we're both. We're both guilty of it. It's just at different times, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And I actually. I had my keto era too. Remember my keto era that went from into October. That was actually several months. And that was. I was a monster during then. I hated keto. Keto was the worst thing of all time.

[Ronnie Caram]

But do you remember that time we were doing a live. We were doing a tour. We were on tour. And you were like so upset because you were doing keto. It was ruining your life. I felt bad. It was like a ghost. It was like one of those. It was like insidious. But the thing that was insidious wasn't even like a little scary doll. It was the keto diet. And it was really tormenting you. You were having nightmares. And then you showed up to one of our shows wearing a little suit that was ice cream. Ice cream cones. And I was like, how can you do that when you're on keto? I would eat the suit. I would eat the suit.

[Ben Mandelker]

It was a shirt with ice cream.

[Heather]

Cones.

[Ronnie Caram]

In my mind. You had shirts.

[Ben Mandelker]

No. If it feels like it would have a matching pant, I think I just wore a white pants with it. I remember that. I loved that shirt. And I. It's like instantly I grew it once I finished keto. Keto was great until I got my first cholesterol test afterwards. And it like, you know, I don't even know how my arteries are alive after that.

[Ronnie Caram]

I just remember I saw that shirt and it was like my favorite thing. And I was like, ben, I love your shirt. I was like, Damn, keto.

[Gina]

For 15 years.

[Ronnie Caram]

Anyway, the point is, it's time for one of the most exciting segments of the episode. Jen, Binga ding dong and wanting to get married in a white bikini. Everybody, let's welcome the Jen segment. I'd like, you know, I like Jen, okay. Even though she's extremely problematic, I guess.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like all of them. But I mean, I still.

[Ronnie Caram]

I still have hope in My heart that Jen's a nice person. Even though I don't believe one thing she says in this reunion. But I don't need to. I don't need a gen segment. Some housewives. It's okay to be like, you know what, Jen, you're great, you're fine. You're not as problematic as everybody else, but you don't get your own segment. Nobody cares.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, there's a lot of Jen this episode.

[Tamara]

So rumors that she clipped in Tamara's old hair extensions combined with the circulation of a so called fatty photo left.

[Ben Mandelker]

Their friendship on ice.

[Tamara]

But could these single white frenemies take solid steps towards rebuilding their friendship?

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm surprised they didn't get mad that they were. They're actually neither of them are single. But yeah, Jen segment. Here it is.

[Ronnie Caram]

I can't be the only one when.

[Gina]

He said fatty photo who went fatty photo, fatty photo. Why not you? Sorry, my bad. I just get so mad sometimes.

[Ben Mandelker]

So by the way, I want to clarify also when I said the thing about Botox, I have no problem with Botox. I'm just saying I feel left out because I don't get to talk about Botox.

[Ronnie Caram]

Are you offended? Are you offended that frozen faced people are going to come for you?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I feel like I started talking about Botox and then the conversation became about carbs and I wanted to just put a bow on that because I felt like I came in hot. I feel like I came in hot on Botox and I was not, I was being facetious, but I, I just am left, I just am left out. So I'm just saying I just, I, I stand there.

[Ronnie Caram]

I turned it on you because we're watching.

[Ben Mandelker]

I've learned because, well, but while everyone's talking about Botox all over the place, I stand there and then I have to wait for my opening to be like, guys, who likes board games? Am I right? And no one cares.

[Tamara]

So.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hey guys, you know what's worse than Botox? Not having any carbs.

[Ben Mandelker]

Should I bring a board game to Vegas, do you think?

[Ronnie Caram]

A fucking board. Well, we're not sharing a room. You can do whatever you want. I mean, I'll come.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, my dream has always been to play catan with Real Housewives. Like that's. Who do you think do it?

[Ronnie Caram]

I'll come to your room.

[Ben Mandelker]

I would do Angie. Angie would just collect sheep.

[Heather]

This is like old Greece. I will trade you for your sheep. I'm going to make feta cheese like Angie.

[Ronnie Caram]

I won. I bought grease. It's like that's not for sale.

[Ben Mandelker]

And, Angie, you cannot trade. You just can't keep hoarding all those sheep.

[Heather]

I'm making feta, though. Isn't that the point of catan?

[Ronnie Caram]

Okay, so, well, it seems like you.

[Gina]

And Tamara got along in Amsterdam. Jen, where do you stand now? They're like, hey, yeah, I don't like her.

[Ronnie Caram]

I still don't like her. Out of here.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Gina]

Stupid.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Tamara]

I'm right here, by the way.

[Ben Mandelker]

What do you mean?

[Tamara]

Oh, you said, where do I stand? I'm standing right here. And I'm actually sitting.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, very literal, but.

[Heather]

So you don't talk.

[Ben Mandelker]

You don't talk to her?

[Tamara]

No, we don't talk. It's hard for me to navigate you, Tamara, and I don't know what version I'm going to get of you. I actually feel like you don't like me, and. And that's okay.

[Jen]

No, that's not true. I actually really like you a lot.

[Gina]

I'm actually really like you too much.

[Jen]

Which is why I make my. You laugh. Hell.

[Ronnie Caram]

And I'm a people pleaser, Andy. Yeah. So I just think that fighting for this friendship, you know, I'm fighting. And it's friendship that never was. You know what I mean? And I'd just like to say thank you, Tamara. Thank you so much for that friendship that never was. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Tamara]

No, no. Well, I wasn't. I guess I wasn't. And at this point, I was just over it. You know, there are things I just don't understand, like how. How anyone would take a photo in their fatty state and then keep it around. I mean, why would you keep a photo like that around? You're just really hell bent on making sure I'm, you know, people know I'm not who I portray myself to be. And you say, oh, you'll find out. She lies. She's not kind. And that's so mean of you. But also, I appreciate that you communicate with people. So thank you so much for. For letting people know. Thank you.

[Gina]

You know what? It's. Because everything. Everything that we feel. Y' all was poking at me. Poke, poke, poke. And when Heather was over and we were talking about you and I said I felt like you singled me to get off the show.

[Ronnie Caram]

Jen never did anything to you. What are you talking about? The only thing Jen ever did to you was stand up to you when you were with her all last season, and you still can't get over it. Tamara, stop acting like Jen has been doing anything to You. Every time Jen shows up, she's like, hello, Tamara. Hi. Are we friends, man? I know Tamara. I just want to trust you. I want to trust this Tamara.

[Gina]

She's like, yeah, we're friends.

[Ronnie Caram]

And she's like, okay, thanks, Tamara.

[Gina]

Hand me a finger. Hand me a finger. Look at this little.

[Jen]

Ow.

[Ronnie Caram]

Tamara. I'm electrocuted.

[Gina]

Stupid.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, Tamara brought Jen onto the show. And then Jen's freshman season, Tamara made her life hell and tried to keep. Get everyone talking about Ryan cheating and a dick pic and Heather Amin and all this. And now she's like, why would you.

[Jen]

Do this to me? Why would she think of me out. Why would you do that? 15 years. Minus 14 years Jen's been tormenting me.

[Gina]

Well, what's the crime with wanting to be on the show? I mean, come on. You know when she was coming on the show, I remember asking you about her and you said, she's great. Well, we weren't on bad terms. And Andy, that's back when I really like single white females, Okay? I used to like saying Sandy until they learned. Until I learned how they can stalk you.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Gina's like, yeah, well, she never.

[Gina]

Struck me as someone who was like, throw Steve for the show.

[Jen]

Okay, someone stop her. Someone stop her from. Come on, finish saying show. You're taking too long.

[Gina]

Okay, it was just.

[Jen]

I got anxious. It was just a chain of events that happens. This is what I heard. You brought the house.

[Gina]

You bought the house.

[Jen]

A couple toast tab for me.

[Gina]

Who else?

[Ronnie Caram]

No, we never lived on the same street. I never bought a house near you. No, I didn't.

[Jen]

Really? Yeah, your house. Okay, well, it's. The last time I checked, your house was in America, was it not? Guess where I live. America, Stucker.

[Gina]

Also in North America, too. You're in America? And also North America and California, too. How many places you can follow me to? Oh, really?

[Jen]

So you're just going to live on the west coast knowing that I live on the West Coast? Wow, thanks a lot. I guess I should be flattered.

[Ronnie Caram]

And I like that they're doxing each other because Tamara's like, well, you live by me and Simon's house. And Jen's like, well, where did you live? Point Circle. I never lived on Point Circle.

[Gina]

You were a beggar. You were two. Two, two, three. Ted Danson Avenue.

[Tamara]

Well, just because I love the show doesn't mean I actually live on the show. That's so wrong.

[Ronnie Caram]

I moved to San Malone street right after. Get off my ass.

[Tamara]

I had a condo on the Naked Truth.

[Gina]

That's a cul de sac.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's. I'll fork you. Fork you. Tamara. Okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Tamara's like, well, all of.

[Jen]

A sudden, you were going to my doctor. You were going to the same hair salon.

[Gina]

You were going to my local. And everyone's going, no.

[Jen]

I was like, she's not even. Noah. What's wrong with you?

[Gina]

Then I went to your house one time, and you gave everybody lemon in their drink. Where did you get that lemon?

[Ronnie Caram]

The grocery store.

[Gina]

Exactly. Part proven. Point proven. Consider me Shelly Long here to fool your shit. Okay?

[Jen]

Did you know that one time she found a baby and she took care of the baby with Tom's hair like a Steve Gutenberg. How disgusting is she?

[Gina]

Gutenberg? Gutenberg ate all people.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Tamara is first. Tamara tries the. You tried to buy a house right by me and Simon. You haven't been married to Simon in quite a long time, ma'.

[Ben Mandelker]

Am.

[Ronnie Caram]

She was like, what are you talking about? You weren't even with Simon. You didn't even live there. Just.

[Gina]

Yeah, but still, I used to live there.

[Ronnie Caram]

Okay, so you think she's. She's trying to buy. She lived close to where you once lived, so that's a stalker thing. And then she says, you were going to my doctor. Who's your doctor? I don't know who they are. Whoever they are, I will not cons. I won't call them a miracle worker, I'll tell you that. And then you were at the same hair salon, which is terrifying. Who would go to Tamara's hair salon on purpose? She looks like she's there to scare crows away from. From corn. And then she's. Oh, sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

The number of hair people that circulate throughout these Real Housewives is, like, innumerable. So it's, like, not crazy to have overlap with your hair people.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yes. So then her final thing is like, oh, yeah.

[Gina]

Well, then you came to my gym and you wanted to do a fitness competition, just like I did.

[Ronnie Caram]

She goes, you invited me to do the fitness competition. What are you talking about? You were a girl, a normal girl who had a gym a mile away from my yoga studio, and I was looking to train, and I loved your husband.

[Gina]

That's it. She's like, oh, okay, time for helps you to a gym. Then you come to a gym, and that's not stalking me. Okay? Why don't you boy the bunny, Glenn? Clothes just boy the bunny.

[Jen]

Guess what, Andy? She goes to the same Starbucks I go to. Crazy.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Gina]

Well, Frances from McDormand wants.

[Ronnie Caram]

To know, do you want to put.

[Gina]

Your partner in a wood chipper? Gretchen, do you find a parallel in how how Tamra is jealous of Jim's looks compared to how she was jealous of you when you first came on the show and Tamara's like, I've never been jealous. If you're either one, it must look like JonBenet, Mamsie.

[Tamara]

Gretchen's like, it's not just me.

[Jen]

It's me, it's Jen. It's Lizzy. Pause to. So that way you can put Lizzy up on the screen now.

[Gina]

Okay.

[Jen]

And I've heard her say it a lot of times in the press. She just wants my life. She wants my life. That's how she says. Well, why are you talking like me? You have the same voice as me today. I can't help it. I'm around you too much. I can't modulate between my voice and your voice right now.

[Ronnie Caram]

I have to point out this Lizzie thing. So Lizzie is like Gretchen. Lizzie's one of those. I mean, Gretchen was on longer, but Lizzie's one of those who's always hanging around the sides. You'll always see Lizzie at the Housewives parties. Like, she always finds a way to be friends with whoever is on Housewives. She's like Gretchen that way. So Gretchen and Lizzie hang out and I know all of this just from seeing Instagram posts. So they've been hanging out for years. They're old buddies. They've been trying to get back on this show for years now. The reason I bring this up is because recently Tamara had some posts and Lizzie was on there and she's like, love you, Tamara. You look so beautiful. You look great.

[Gina]

Like, yeah, thanks, bitch.

[Ronnie Caram]

So I think Tamara has gone so far even to take Lizzie from Gretchen to like team up with her against scratching on the next. They're all trying so hard to get back on this show. It's really funny. So good luck, Lizzie. I wouldn't mind another season of Lizzie actually. Would you? Yeah, I thought.

[Ben Mandelker]

I thought Lizzie was okay. I think she just sort of had like a boring final season. But like, she wasn't the worst.

[Ronnie Caram]

She was the worst. She stood up.

[Tamara]

Yeah, I think there have been some.

[Ben Mandelker]

Pretty, like, pretty good mid pack Orange county people who've come through.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, thanks for watching me, Ben. It's me, Elizabeth Vargas, back for tour. Unbelievable.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's Bravo Con and I'm here to say you can list my house any day.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's me, Elizabeth Vargas. Just here to give a little truth. I was in the Colts, Occult Italia.

[Ben Mandelker]

Look for me doing my one woman show on this on the roller coaster atop Circle Circus. Or I guess the Stratosphere.

[Ronnie Caram]

Whatever.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'll be there. Sally Kirkland died. Did you know that? I had to say no.

[Ronnie Caram]

I love her brand of things at Costco.

[Ben Mandelker]

I used to see her all the time at the diner. At the diner. I used to go to in Sally Kirkland. It was Sally Kirkland and Robert Forster were always there at the same diner. And Robert Force would always sit in the corner, and then Sally Kirkland would come in. RIP I was like, I just haven't announced a celebrity death in so long. Like, then they keep on dying during our show. And I said, you know what? That's it. Sally Kirkland. She's getting onto the show.

[Ronnie Caram]

So you say. You're like, you know what, Ronnie be damned. I will bring. Bring up a death in the middle of a. We didn't do our.

[Ben Mandelker]

We didn't do Sally Kellerman, but we sure as hell are going to do Sally Kirkland.

[Ronnie Caram]

And I actually know Sally Kellerman personally. And that was very upsetting to me that the one celebrity that you don't admit that dies during our podcast is one of my dear, dear friends. We were in Maime together at the Jupiter Theater in Florida. It's where she introduced me to her friend John Travolta, who took a private plane to see us. That's right. John Travolta right there in the front seat. Oh, Johnny, how far we've fallen, eh?

[Tamara]

Wow.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm sure. I'm sure Gretchen's friends in Orange county have a lot to say about that guy, huh?

[Ronnie Caram]

So I remember back then, 18 years old.

[Kelly Dodd]

Did you really?

[Ronnie Caram]

I remember going up to John Travolta. I said, nice to meet you, Johnny. Have you ever heard of Eddie? Eddie Judge? You know each other? You know what I'm saying? We had any sword fights, Johnny? John Travolta.

[Ben Mandelker]

You really met John Travolta back then?

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, he was her friend, so he came to see her in Mame, and everybody was all freaking out that John Travolta was coming to the Jupiter Theater. And they had asked him what he wanted to eat because it's a dinner theater. And he would have had the salmon like everybody else, but unfortunately, they gave him the offer and he chose a hamburger, which they didn't serve. And the whole place freaked out trying to get this man a hamburger. I've never seen so many service workers go crazy. They were a hamburger.

[Gina]

How are we gonna get him a hamburger?

[Ronnie Caram]

What are we gonna do? The whole theater went nuts, and he got his hamburger and never knew. I always thought, you know, this guy's probably just picking the easiest thing. Cause he doesn't want to seem too fancy. So he's just like, just give me a burger. Like, I don't care. Like a burger. We're only two blocks from A Publix. Whatever will we do?

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, God.

[Tamara]

There.

[Ben Mandelker]

There must be someone in this. In this burg who can make a burger. Hey, that was wordplay. Well, that's. I never knew that. That's amazing. Or maybe you said, I don't know. I'm sure someone's listening to podcasts. Like, Ronnie mentioned that April 13th of 2012, but I had forgotten, so that's cool.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, anyway, it's a man back in the day. Good lord, those eyes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Was that before Pulp Fiction?

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, it was right after that. Pulp Fiction. We had all gone to see Pulp Fiction together, so that was out that year. And that's also when Preta Porter was on. That had just come out too, which was Sally Kellerman's kind of big return. So it was a big time for them. It was a huge year for them. It was a good year for those two. Okay, Ben, take it away. I won't tell any more Sally Kellerman story. I could have fallen in love with Johnny, though. Although that went downhill quickly. Let's just pretend it's the John Travolta of the past.

[Ben Mandelker]

Excuse me. This is a Sally Kirkland moment. And getting over. We're still just getting over the Diane Ladd moment that we just.

[Tamara]

Okay.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, well, Sally Kirkland, I always think, didn't know you. Okay, do more dinner theater if you want any attention on this podcast.

[Ben Mandelker]

The Sally Kirkland, Diane Ladd, Diane Keaton, Sally Kellerman thing is a real. It's a real doozy.

[Ronnie Caram]

Two.

[Ben Mandelker]

Two Diane's, two Sally's don't like it, but we. You know what? I do like Orange County. So Gretchen is. Say, my camera. Sorry. Gretchen's accusing Tamara of being jealous of all the pretty girls, and she destroys everyone's life who is pretty.

[Gina]

And Tamara's like, I don't do that.

[Jen]

I don't talk about you.

[Tamara]

And she's like, well, you go on.

[Jen]

You go on your podcast and you have things to say. She's like, but I don't talk about you, Gretchen.

[Gina]

What?

[Jen]

Part of my episode dedicated to you and Slay and said, I was actually talking about you.

[Gina]

I wasn't talking about you. I was just talking about how they didn't like to pay child support for his cancer child.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Addie's like, well, by the way.

[Gina]

I would also argue with the two of you. I feel like you're both asked about the other person in interviews and stuff. I mean, come on.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's what we do.

[Gina]

And Tamara's like, I do not get asked backwards.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yes, you do.

[Tamara]

Excuse Me? I. I have to go to the bathroom soon. So is this gonna be wrapping up anytime soon? No. Okay, that's fine. Well, over from the sofa.

[Gina]

Oh, sorry.

[Ronnie Caram]

I wasn't finished.

[Gina]

Please say that again. I'd like to hear it.

[Tamara]

I said I was doing something wacky.

[Jen]

On the sofa, holding in the pee.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, little orphan Shani, we think you're.

[Gina]

Gonna like it here. Okay, now, over from the boulder holder says, Heather, how did you think Tamara had no ill intent in showing off Jen's photo? It. It seems obvious. It was a fatty photo. Come on.

[Heather]

Oh, Andy. If you had been there, it was a long evening where many things were talked about, including Teddy and what was going on with her and Wendy, Malik being a forever bitch, things like that. And there were traumatic conversations that were had. And in the middle of it, she just was like, oh, Jen wants to be me. And. Oh, God, there was a litany, Andy. Just a litany.

[Ben Mandelker]

And then just, like, cuts to, like, the Gretchen couch, and you just see Jen, Emily, and Gretchen just staring like.

[Tamara]

Is that a new cast member? Litany. Litany.

[Ronnie Caram]

Heather's like, I didn't mean anything by it. You had to be there. Look, I saw that photo of Jen, and I thought, now there's a woman who will wear Emily's jeans.

[Heather]

She could win an Oscar with how big she got for that photo.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Jen is like, well, you use my hair extensions.

[Tamara]

And Jen's like, I didn't use your hair extensions.

[Ben Mandelker]

And my goes.

[Kelly Dodd]

I think it was established that's lawyer speak, that it was a joke, and she put them in there temporarily. Case dismissed. Now, who wants to do reverse cowgirl? Shane.

[Ronnie Caram]

And full of it. She knew that they already. They already did this.

[Gina]

And she's still like, you stole my hair. You stole my hair.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, my God, Tamara, you move your hair too much, corn stops. Starts popping out of it. No one wants your hair.

[Ben Mandelker]

Tamara, she was like, the Velociraptors. You know how, like, they had to keep, like, the. The. The. The. The cage electrified at all moments because the velociraptor is always testing it to see if there's, like, a weakness. And then because you know. You know, it was based on real science. Guess. And that's what Tamara's doing. She's just gonna always, like, test that electric fence to see. Is today the day the power went out? Can I escape today?

[Tamara]

So she's gonna be like, you took my.

[Jen]

You put my hair in your hand.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, for the 10th time, I did not.

[Tamara]

She's like, Damn.

[Gina]

Didn't work today.

[Jen]

Try again tomorrow.

[Gina]

Oh, yeah. You won't lie to me. Hey, stealer. Everybody wants my hair.

[Ronnie Caram]

Andy, no one stole your hair. Tamara, calm down. Okay, well, in the realm of this conversation, I wasn't gonna say Tamra. That's not okay, because that. That conversation was not germane to what the bigger conversation was. And you cut to the other couch. It's like.

[Tamara]

Who'S Jermaine? Is Jermaine Jackson on the show? Can I meet him?

[Ben Mandelker]

Emily's like, who's Jermaine Jackson on this show?

[Ronnie Caram]

And I'm sorry, what was. Oh, sorry. I thought there was another big word in there. What did she say?

[Ben Mandelker]

Jermaine? I think the other big word was conversation. So Emily is like.

[Kelly Dodd]

Okay, lawyer speaking.

[Jen]

What?

[Kelly Dodd]

Your Honor, what was your real intent with the photo? Just that Jen had changed. I mean, we have all changed, for crying out loud.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, we've all changed.

[Gina]

You have all changed. I love seeing what Bravo does to people. Look at you guys. I could bounce you off a garage door and have a great after school game.

[Tamara]

I'll tell you what Bravo doesn't do for people is provide a toilet because I have to pee very badly. And I just want to say, before.

[Ben Mandelker]

I just make an accident in front of everyone, that.

[Tamara]

Tamara, when you. When we were in Temecula, you said it was shady to bring up the photo.

[Jen]

You did say that, yeah. What it was. It was shady.

[Gina]

Hey, look, I. Look at it.

[Jen]

I didn't even look great in that picture. I was being shady to myself, but I was mainly being shit. But when I said I was being shady to myself, I'm also saying I'm being shady to Jen because she basically is me. Copycat.

[Gina]

Yeah, basically. I didn't look in that photo either. But it was mostly because I was standing in front of the shadow that big fatty Gin was. Was casting all over me.

[Heather]

That was the point. She was showing me the photo in that context, Andy there. I knew I could get to it. So the point was, overall, Tamara was babbling so much, I zoned out. And she mentioned it at that point, and I just wasn't listening or paying attention because I was trying to get ready for my cabaret with Richard Marx. Did you all watch? Did you see me singing with Richard Marks, anyone?

[Ronnie Caram]

Did you. You watched that? Of course.

[Ben Mandelker]

Of course I did. She sounded great, actually. For a real housewife.

[Ronnie Caram]

For a real housewife, yeah, that. What was it like? I've got money. No, what'd she say? I ain't got no money. She's like, that's a joke. What song was she singing? I don't know.

[Ben Mandelker]

In my mind, it was always lady in the Tramp.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, no, it was Lady Tramp.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think when it comes to Bravo Cabaret, you know, we start at Countess Luanne, and then from there we go to Ashley. Ashley Darby. So, like, when Heather comes around and she hits 75 of her notes, I'm like, wow. I mean, hand her the Grammy now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, that's true. And I even sing a song like that with, like, musicality, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Time where that mattered. But, yeah, back in the day when I was in the Rat Pack. Oh, Johnny, Johnny Travolta get over here on my lap let's tell some Rat Pack stories.

[Heather]

I'm just a gigolo and everywhere I go People have something to say about me thank you.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's why the lady is Germaine.

[Heather]

Baby Litney Bop.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thank you, Alfredo.

[Heather]

Welcome back. Been waiting all day.

[Gina]

Savannah from Never Smiles says, why do you think Tamra can't stop talking about you even after Ryan Cease and desist. Oh, yeah. She talks about me more than I talked about him. That's for sure. That's for sure.

[Kelly Dodd]

Well, outside of the photo, was there more issues between the two of you?

[Tamara]

Well, I mean, she. I mean, Tamara said that she had an affair.

[Ben Mandelker]

It was.

[Tamara]

It was. It was horrifying. It was. It was terrible. I need the toilet.

[Gina]

And Tamara's like, it happened at your old yoga studio with an instructor. With an instructor.

[Tamara]

No, Tamara, that's not true. That's why I can't do this with you. Just be honest. Be honest.

[Gina]

Tamara, it was a rumor. I heard about it.

[Tamara]

I'm not proud of it. I'm not proud of it. I had an affair with.

[Ronnie Caram]

On Will.

[Tamara]

With Ryan, but I didn't have an affair with any man at my yoga studio. It was just Ryan. And I mean, well, I mean, to be fair, we had sex in the parking lot. And I guess technically, that was my Yugo studio, but, like, really, at that point, it's a little bit of a gray area.

[Gina]

Well, okay, I got no proof that you had an affair with somebody online outside yoga studio. Whatever. So I shouldn't have said that. I regret Dan Djenny's a big slut face who has fairs all the time. Whoops.

[Ronnie Caram]

Tamara.

[Tamara]

Tamara, I think your go to is if you're gonna say something like, you know, I'm gonna throw something and see if it sticks. And it just gets scary when you do that, because then we don't delve into deep things with You. Because, like, what if you get mad and take some and throw it at us? Like, what if you. Like, you know, truth's about us.

[Jen]

Oh, come on. You're just saying that because you once robbed the bank when you were 18. You had the record sealed.

[Tamara]

See, that's what. Exactly what I'm telling you about. Talking about.

[Gina]

Okay, you're right. I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have said the chance of bankruptcy.

[Heather]

That reminds me. I need to have you have a. A meal with Wendy Malik. So that way you out her secrets. See what I'm doing? See, everyone? That was a. Was a callback. It was a call back, but it was a reference to.

[Ben Mandelker]

It was.

[Heather]

I'm really dying out here. Alfredo, I'm gonna. I'm gonna need you to. I'm gonna need you to pay attention.

[Tamara]

Well, he's unfortunately in the bathroom, and it's exactly the worst timing that I could never imagine for myself.

[Ronnie Caram]

I actually said I have to go to the bathroom, so Alfredo offered to go for me. He should be back any moment. Hopefully he's wiping.

[Heather]

Oh, he just flushed. He just flushed.

[Gina]

Oh, yeah. But you're okay with Gretchen? How can we. Okay, but you're not with me.

[Ronnie Caram]

But Gretchen's never done anything like that to me yet.

[Gina]

Yet.

[Ronnie Caram]

Okay, Tamara, so are you admitting that if Gretchen did that, it would also be terrible? You're terrible. Why don't you just admit it, Tamara? So ridiculous. Just stop with the tears. My God. So does Jen have a wedding date yet? And. No, she doesn't. What's the rush? She doesn't really care. She's just doing this for the cameras. You ain't got. Y' all ain't gonna pay for it. And so then Gretchen's like, yeah, I.

[Gina]

Mean, there's no rush to get married. I've been engaged 16 years.

[Ronnie Caram]

You've been avoiding paying child support for a cancer victim for 16 years is what your lame ass has been doing. Gretchen, stop acting like you're living some love story.

[Kelly Dodd]

I think Jen is being really smart. I'm proud of it. They have a great relationship. And the fact that she's taking it slow and thinking about things, about wanting her children to be there and not rushing it is really smart.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which is Emily's way of saying, this is really good. Because the longer she waits, the sooner Ryan's true colors will come out and she'll realize she never should have gotten married to this guy in the first place.

[Ronnie Caram]

And just hearing it from Emily, like, Emily's so kind. I was so Happy that they showed the clips because it was so good. Because Andy's like, well, that's a big.

[Gina]

Deal because you were so hard on.

[Ronnie Caram]

Her and the way she was handling her finances, chances. And then we cut to the clip of Emily being like, you are so dumb. You don't even know how to walk around without carrying diamonds everywhere. When you owe people money, pay money back dumb. Like, Emily was rotten to the core to this woman. Just fucking terrible. And it just reminded me, you know, every season I'm like, when are they going to get rid of Emily? She is so rotten to whoever she's being rotten to. She's been rotten to everybody. She's just a nasty, nasty person. But, you know, unlike Tamara, Emily knows how to rein it in when it's important so she can try. And yes, on. Back on people's good sides again.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I think Emily has some upside. But, yeah, I.

[Tamara]

Was.

[Ben Mandelker]

That.

[Ronnie Caram]

She sucks. Emily sucks.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I agree. She sucks. No, I'm saying that, like, there's moments when. When, like you said, she can reign it in for like a second and, like, they're mo. There's always these flashes where I'm like, I could see a world someday where I could like Emily, but.

[Ronnie Caram]

But it's tough.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's real tough. So she's like, yeah, I just.

[Tamara]

I'm, like, so proud of her.

[Ben Mandelker]

And he's like, well, you were pretty.

[Jen]

Tough on her last year.

[Gina]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

And thank you so much for calling me very stupid and shaming me when I was at my lowest point, when I had no money. That was. I really thought that meant, like, a lot to me.

[Kelly Dodd]

Yeah, I think she's taking some of that to heart, and I think that she just thinks more about things now. I'm just so proud of her that she does push ups on her Instagram and it's just her doing push ups. Gosh, they could have me just fix everyone's social media at this point. Mommy makeover, Come make an Instagram.

[Ronnie Caram]

I really liked how she. They show this clip of Emily being absolutely vile. She's like, yeah, I think she learned from that. So I'm really. I just helped her, you know, that's me, good old helpful Emily calling you a dumb until you get it in order.

[Ben Mandelker]

Jen then goes, and guys, I just.

[Tamara]

Want to announce that if something happens to me, me and my kids are going to be just fine.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they all clap. They're like, yay, Jen.

[Tamara]

I've saved 35 in my account.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, they're already used to sleeping in parking lots. How Worse can it be? They're gonna be. She's like, we'll be fine. You know, we will be fine. We have learned to take. We've learned how to take salt out of ocean water. The kids are gonna be fine. Don't worry, everybody.

[Tamara]

Don't worry. I figured out cold fusion, so we're gonna be okay.

[Jen]

All right.

[Ben Mandelker]

Jen in Amsterdam, you worried if you would be enough for Ryan as you get older?

[Jen]

Did you really say cold fusion?

[Ben Mandelker]

You really should publicize that more.

[Tamara]

Yeah, I did if I figured it out. Have you told. Have you told the government? No, I don't trust them. Okay, well, Gina, you mentioned that Ryan over sexualizes Jen.

[Ben Mandelker]

Do you feel like the way Ryan sexy talks about Jen is the reason Jen may feel like she's not enough?

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, yeah.

[Tamara]

I just think that, like, Jen was, like, in her marriage, and, like, Jen spent, like, a lot of time serving others, and, like, Jen is, like, having a moment where she's, like, truly trying to figure out who she is. And I think that, like, Jen, when.

[Ben Mandelker]

It comes down to a lot of.

[Tamara]

Insecurities, I do think that, like, Ryan is, like, going to do. I think that he's gonna, like, leave you, like, when you don't look that way.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I don't think so. He'll leave you before then. So I think it's, like, has nothing.

[Gina]

To do with that. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I'll tell you this. I've never had a best friend as a partner. I mean, this is just so great, you know? I've never had someone spend so much time with me and touch me and love me, and I think, wow, does this end? Are we going to be able to do this forever? Will we. Will he always be able to touch me and love me?

[Jen]

Oh.

[Kelly Dodd]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

I've been with Shane for 17 years, and his hands are all over me all the time.

[Heather]

Me too. 29 years, which I guess is significantly longer than you. So I guess if you're going to one up Jen, I'll just one up you. I'll pretend I'm in the penthouse, and I'm saying one floor up from Emily Simpson, which is a joke, because it would be probably about 34 floors up anyway. Reverse cowgirl with Terry de Bro. Talk about a hot time, right, America?

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, thanks a lot because now Shane asked for that all the time. Sorry.

[Gina]

But you know what?

[Ronnie Caram]

You do at least get to turn around and face the television. Well, glad to see you made it back from the bathroom, Alfredo. Keep your finger on the button.

[Heather]

You guys don't understand what the Joy is to do reverse cowgirl on Terry Dubrow while watching old episodes of Suits. Talk about a hot time, right? That wasn't a joke. I was sharing. I was sharing my experience. This is important to me. This is important. Seats is important. I need to see the television show that I was not cast in. No, I'm trying to do comedy now and I feel like no one trips. Fine. I'll just go back to missionary. Back to missionary with Terry debrow.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, now I say something funny and you stop laughing. Great.

[Gina]

Great. That was really salient, you guys. That was really salient.

[Kelly Dodd]

Commercial.

[Jen]

Here comes one right now.

[Ronnie Caram]

At raising Canes, we're hyper focused on being the best at what we do and getting it right every time. Cook to order chicken fingers, cane sauce, crinkle cut fries, coleslaw, Texas toast, iced tea and lemonade. It's our one love. But is the hype real? Yeah, it's real good. Raising Cane's chicken fingers, one love. Next time, order with our app or online. Dedication isn't born in the light of day. It's carved in the quiet hours before the world blinks awake. At Boar's Head, we rise with a mission. You to deliver craftsmanship worthy of your table. A slice of something special folded into every moment worth savoring. Because dedication means delivering only the very best.

[Tamara]

Thank you.

[Ronnie Caram]

Welcome, Horsehead. Committed to craft since 1905.

[Ben Mandelker]

So while everyone purges the vision of Heather Dubrow doing reverse cowgirl on Terry Debra while she also watches tv.

[Ronnie Caram]

And he's like Nightmare Before Christmas porn.

[Ben Mandelker]

I know. She's like, watching, you know, my lottery dream home.

[Ronnie Caram]

Do me.

[Heather]

Do me.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was watching House Hunters the other day for Dwell. Hello. And on the bottom of the screen, because it was on YouTube TV that my lottery dream home guy came on. And he was just like the pop up on the screen, you know, that comes up and he's wearing like a bright pink fluffy thing with pink sunglasses being pulled down and he's going like. I was like, please, why do I need this on my Dwell? Hello. Leave me alone.

[Ben Mandelker]

He is really turning into like the flash version of the abyss monster. So Jen is like. Jen is. He's like the T1, T2000 or whatever it is. Jen is like, you know, Ryan and.

[Tamara]

I met with Will and it was weird. Just in case someone wants to know how things are going with Will. It was weird, but Will sat there and he owned everything, which is funny because he owns nothing. But can you imagine doing that in front of Ryan, having to say apologies to a Guy who has paint on his denim. It's humbling.

[Gina]

Well, does he appreciate the role that Ryan stake?

[Ronnie Caram]

And she's like, yeah, he thanked him for taking care of the kids. He really did. He thanked him. Oh, wow. So, Gina, why did you express in Amsterdam that you felt that Jen and Shannon have fake friendship? She's like, okay, maybe that was a little harsh, but I was getting mixed messaging. Like, when I was with John, you'd.

[Gina]

Say, like, I don't want that.

[Ronnie Caram]

But then you tipped all around Shannon.

[Gina]

And I didn't get that.

[Ronnie Caram]

Gina. I wish she know. Gina, Gina, Sheena, Gina. I wish Gina would just show up with a backbone instead of showing up and pretending everything she said was nothing and she never meant anything and she's just so sorry. It's like, show up with a pair, you know, grow some. He. Everything. Everything. She's in trouble for this season. Instead of standing behind it and just having an argument, she's like, yeah, that was harsh. I shouldn't have done that because, like.

[Gina]

I support all women.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's what this is about.

[Tamara]

Well, I said I don't want any traditional bridal stuff and just. It just makes me nervous. So. But when I learned that it was already planned, there's no way I'm going to go to my friend and say, like, undo everything you did. And then when I watched it back and Shannon, what you did and what you said.

[Jen]

What me?

[Gina]

What me?

[Tamara]

I barely. It was. It was nothing. It was just, you know, $5,000.

[Ben Mandelker]

But, like, you know, when you're unlimited.

[Tamara]

It was nothing.

[Gina]

I.

[Tamara]

Listen, I mean.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, would it have hurt maybe.

[Tamara]

A little bit less if I hadn't.

[Jen]

Paid $75,000 to John Jansen?

[Gina]

Yes.

[Tamara]

But let's not talk about the $5,000.

[Jen]

That I spent on my friendship.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was just so, so embarrassed that they even included me talking about money. I mean, that was disgusting. $5,000 I spent 20 times. That is a hundred thousand dollars I spent. It was so embarrassing. I wish I hadn't mentioned that.

[Tamara]

And to think that they got the wrong flowers and the wrong.

[Ronnie Caram]

The wrong.

[Tamara]

The wrong type of glassware.

[Heather]

It's just.

[Tamara]

It's just mortifying when you spent $5,000 on a friend like that.

[Gina]

You don't look at me.

[Tamara]

I didn't. You're not supposed to know how much I spent at the $5,000 that I spent.

[Ronnie Caram]

But I don't deserve that, Shannon. I don't. Of course you do. Of course you deserve someone who's single and on their own and has no children. Anymore to spend all of their life savings on your party? Of course you do. Let's not talk about the price. It was expensive.

[Tamara]

I'm just. I'm just a friend who does things out of the kindness of my own heart. Does anyone need Sloan Kettering? Anyone? That's like my. That's a card I really love to play.

[Ben Mandelker]

Sloan Kettering, everyone.

[Tamara]

Sloan Kettering.

[Ronnie Caram]

And do you feel like your friendship with Shannon is one sided? And Gina's like, no, no, I really don't. Like, even though I got salty, like.

[Gina]

I feel like I can say things.

[Ronnie Caram]

To Shannon and like I do things.

[Gina]

Say things to Shannon.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, we know you can, because you're rude to her every time. And she's like. Well, when you said, I worry about you, that really hurt my feelings. You know, if you're so worried you would call me or check in. I mean, who knows someone who's an alcoholic and just leaves them there to rot? No offense, dad. Did I say that?

[Gina]

Well, anyway.

[Tamara]

Tamara, it's just like you just cannot stop but bring him up.

[Jen]

You said that batch. Because she's drunk again. She's drunk. Drunk, you say? What?

[Gina]

What? What?

[Kelly Dodd]

Huh?

[Ben Mandelker]

Drunk.

[Jen]

You now drunk it out. Look around the room, alarmed.

[Gina]

Yeah, drunky.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I will tell you who I'm accountable for. Myself. And that's what's important. And I'm continuing to improve my martinis. Said myself. That's all that matters.

[Tamara]

Yeah, that's Fiona. I apologize for that.

[Ronnie Caram]

No, it's all good. Gina.

[Gina]

Oh.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, Gina. Oh. Do I hold any grudges?

[Ben Mandelker]

Nope.

[Tamara]

Heather, in regards to your friendship with Gina, do you think Gina has a double standard by accusing you of not always supporting her and then making light.

[Ben Mandelker]

Of your work to get back at.

[Tamara]

The com deck and answer that for you? Yes. Hell, yes. It's a big double standard. But feel free to answer in your own words.

[Heather]

Well, what bothered me was we're both putting ourselves back in the world in some capacity in our careers. She's selling one bedrooms to seniors. I'm. I don't know, taking over television, beaming myself into living rooms far and wide, reminding people that there are better options than just Wendy Malik. But you know, Gina. Thank you. I was. I was telling Nancy Travis the other day. I was saying, it's so great to work in comedy again. What are you working on, Nancy? And then I let the silence linger for a while while she tried to remember what it was like to work. Wow, A lot of Travis heads here today. Well, you know what? I. I have to speak my truth. The Truth is, she. She's no Andie McDowell, that's for sure. No Andy McDowell. Okay, why did the Nancy Travis cross the road? To get to the curly hair that Andie McDowell has. That's the real stalker, Tamra. That's the real stalker. Alfredo, get in here right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Fred, out. Thank you.

[Gina]

Okay, well, Heather.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, by the way, Heather, I just wanted to say it's not like everybody criticized you. I didn't say, oh, Heather, they're criticizing your career. I just said they were surprised you were doing comedy. Comedy, Shannon, that is not true, ma'. Am. You sat down, you're like, well, so all the other girls are saying that you're doing comedy and they seem very. Oh, they said it like this.

[Heather]

What? Excuse me, my turn.

[Tamara]

Still me.

[Heather]

I'm discussing why this is very important to me. What about me getting very angry in this moment says that I am not a comic actress? Please.

[Ronnie Caram]

Okay, this was my error because like, I was short sighted. Like, I did not make the connection between what we were having a light hearted laugh about you with your career. And I'm sorry about that and I feel.

[Heather]

I appreciate that. But doubling down in your interview. Excuse me, excuse me. Do not draw out your bad while I am talking. It's my turn. Still me. My turn. Comic actress, turn comic actress time. The sign says on the air and that is for the comedians. I am just telling you that every time I talk about my career, specifically the comedy career, over the years on the show, someone says something and makes me not want to open up about it.

[Ronnie Caram]

Emily, can you ask Candy if we can go to the bathroom? He apparently doesn't listen to me, so.

[Heather]

And you told me you wanted to be a comedy writer, Gina. How about that? And my knee jerk reaction to that was, was, that's so cool. I love you're choosing a profession in a dying industry. The comedy writers are not getting paid anything. They're so poor they have to go on strike. Great choice for you. You can write a skit about old people riding in on their Rascals to look at the studio apartments you're selling them. I love that for you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Breathe.

[Ronnie Caram]

Can't breathe. Choking on my own pee.

[Gina]

Can I go pee, please?

[Heather]

Excuse me. This is very important to me. Andy, why are you not paying attention to what I'm talking about?

[Gina]

I'm just trying to say. I mean, listen, she's already peed on one couch.

[Ronnie Caram]

We don't need another couch. Peed on.

[Gina]

That was me, Andy. Okay, Sorry. A lot of cats, a lot of this cast has peed on couches before. Okay? We care, Heather.

[Ronnie Caram]

It is important. This is important to me, okay? This is extremely. Extremely. Okay, okay, you know what? But I've had it with you people. Can we just stop for a second and say, gina wants to be a comedy writer?

[Ben Mandelker]

I. Did I hear that wrong? She said that, right? Oh, my God. But I.

[Ronnie Caram]

And then all the stuff that they kept interjecting here when she's like, oh, my God.

[Gina]

I think it's like Germaine to say, Celia, that, like, I never met stuff like that about you. And, like, maybe that wasn't nice, but.

[Ronnie Caram]

Like, I know you're a really good actor. And then it keeps cutting to Gina, what she was really saying. She's like, oh, my God, who told us she was funny? Like, the sales people at the Bergdorfs.

[Gina]

Am I right?

[Ronnie Caram]

And then it cuts back to Gina being like, no, Heather, I. I got nothing for respect for you in your career. Then it cuts to her, like, yeah, she was in sitcoms, like, 20 years ago.

[Gina]

Like, I was, too.

[Tamara]

Like, what's the deal with muffin tops? Am I right?

[Ben Mandelker]

They're the best part of the muffin. Why do we have the bottom part?

[Heather]

Okay, now you're doing Seinfeld.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, well, sorry, I've got to do my audition.

[Ronnie Caram]

Okay, well, you know, you doubled down, and it hurt me so. And he's like, well, I would like.

[Gina]

To say that she is the only person in this group has been on many, many, many sitcoms. Okay, Malibu country aside, Gretchen.

[Kelly Dodd]

You know.

[Heather]

Heather's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. That's funny, Andy. That's funny. Which reminds me, it's time for my annual call where I leave a vicious.

[Ben Mandelker]

Voicemail for that casting director.

[Heather]

If you ever considered Gretchen Rossi over me, television's Heather Dubrow again, it will.

[Ben Mandelker]

Cost you a lot.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I just want to say I've got to go to the bathroom right now. Thank you. Thank you, audience. Thank you very much for your warmth. I wasn't even expecting. Thank you. Oh, that's These flowers.

[Heather]

This is what gets the laugh. This.

[Tamara]

You.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thank you.

[Gina]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'll be back. I'll be back. We're just taking a look. I'm falling.

[Gina]

I'm falling. I'll be back.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'll be back.

[Tamara]

Wait, Andy, I just have a question. I received a text message from someone named Drake who said that he loved my bit.

[Heather]

Oh, now you're really doing it, Shannon.

[Ronnie Caram]

So we come back from commercial, and Shannon's like, wow, I wish they could have fixed my hair.

[Gina]

Well, you're lucky Jen didn't steal it.

[Jen]

And we're back.

[Tamara]

When it came to extracurricular activities, the OC proved to be as well rounded.

[Ben Mandelker]

As the oranges they hold.

[Tamara]

Now let's watch a segment of fun and games.

[Ben Mandelker]

So it's basically, I'm gonna fall over. Well, I'm gonna get onto a horse.

[Jen]

Whoa. Bicycling.

[Gina]

Wow. Wacky, wacky, wacky.

[Tamara]

Here I am.

[Heather]

Ha.

[Tamara]

I'm America's sweetheart. I just got off of Love Hotel and now I'm falling all over the place.

[Gina]

There's that slut on the beach.

[Jen]

Woo.

[Gina]

I'm fun, fun, Shannon happy.

[Kelly Dodd]

I just.

[Ronnie Caram]

I just came from a lymphatic drainage machine.

[Ben Mandelker]

All right, well, this quote unquote fun.

[Tamara]

And games segment, can you tell me what's the purpose of a lymphatic drainage massage? It just sounds like an excuse for an orgasm. Did you have one, Em?

[Ronnie Caram]

No, but I would have if I'd stayed longer. Later on, though, I pulled the turkey sandwich out of my bag and I rolled that around on myself and I came like a. Like a rocket ship. Andy, thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

[Heather]

Unacceptable. Not, thanks, guys.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'll be here all week.

[Heather]

A new low.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Andy's like, like, whoa, three billboards in Missouri.

[Tamara]

Wants to know what was with Gretchen's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Tomb raider outfit and fake bridge.

[Jen]

Like, oh, I love a theme. I just think it makes it fun.

[Ben Mandelker]

And campy, which is exactly what you're going for in a self defense class.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So they talk about her want telling everybody they had to show up serious because it was a very serious scene. And then she showed up like Laura Croft and then like did carjacking jokes on people. Weirdo.

[Heather]

Emily's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Emily's trying to explain why this is so funny and she's cracking up. And I'm like, like, I wasn't offended or anything. I just was like, I. It was a. You had to be their moment.

[Kelly Dodd]

She's like, oh, what was so silly? You guys, you guys, you guys. What was so silly is that like she kept on being like, this is serious. And like, you got to take this serious. It was like a really important thing. But then we got there, she's dressed like Lara Croft, like, hilarious.

[Tamara]

And Gretch is like.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm like, you guys are really entertained by ourselves. Anyway, honey, let's joke about our inside jokes again.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So they talk about how strong Jen is, and they all learned that she's very dense and nobody makes a joke. And then, let's see, Olive from Kittredge wants to know What Shane thought when.

[Gina]

He saw you at the Abbey having the ride of your life.

[Ronnie Caram]

And she's like, I was a victim of dry humping. Okay. And then they show multiple clips of Emily riding every stripper that comes into town, which is kind of funny. So we talk about strippers and cock rings. And Heather's like, I have never seen. Seen a cock ring before.

[Gina]

Wow.

[Ronnie Caram]

So they ask Andy what a cock ring is for. I actually don't know either. Do you? I thought it was to you guys hard, but Andy says to make your wiener look bigger.

[Ben Mandelker]

I always assumed it was to make people cringe during gay porn and turn it off because that's usually my reaction.

[Ronnie Caram]

I think it's like an of age, you know, it's like an age signifier. I always thought it was to keep boners.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, cock ring. I was thinking, you know what? The entire time I was thinking a prince. What do you call it? You know, the, the. I was thinking the piercing. I wasn't thinking conquering.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, well, okay, I'm gonna leave you with your boner.

[Ben Mandelker]

Could you imagine I saw a cock.

[Heather]

Ring and I'm gonna cringe and turn.

[Tamara]

Off the gay porn.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, it's the piercing at the tip. Prince Albert or something.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, no, like a cock ring. Like ding dong, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, that's different.

[Ronnie Caram]

Come to your door and they're like, ding dong, we're selling cookies.

[Ben Mandelker]

That changes this. This changes everything. Because really, in my mind, those troopers pulled out their dicks and there was a piercing. And Heather Debreau saw it up close and personal. Was like, if you ever show me that. But cockering is my. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

I know.

[Ben Mandelker]

Conquering is, I think, to keep the blood in the dick. So that way you stay hard. Right? Isn't it like what strippers use? Strippers need to use it because they're up there dancing for hours.

[Ronnie Caram]

I don't know. My dick look bigger. I just carry around like a really tiny representation of a dick. You just like a cornishon or something. And I just. When someone looks down there, I just hold it next to it and I'm like, look at, look at the giant next to that.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's like a little car. Like a little car and like a little diner.

[Ronnie Caram]

Like, whoa, hello there. This is a two part recap. Okay? This is the end of part one. So thank you so much for listening to this. Just come back a little later for part two.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King. It's Always a party on Alison Bliss.

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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Cast a spell with Shannon Spellman. Let's share with Sharon Eldridge.

[Ronnie Caram]

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Make way for A.J.

[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

Sides who, what, why, where? And Gwen Pentland island let's go into the woods with Guy Tubbs Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran. We got our wish. It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch, My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's a total knockout It's Katie Manock.

[Ben Mandelker]

We love him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock G It's Lisa H. We're right Ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron, she's a whiz It's Liz Sarthi, always killing it It's Lola Al.

[Ronnie Caram]

Kalani the incredible edible Matthew Sisters she eases our woes. It's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meatballs.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

Obsessed doll with Tessa V. You'll always.

[Ben Mandelker]

Get the full story with Tori Parsons.

[Ronnie Caram]

She ain't no shrinking violet Coutar we love you guys. If you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.

[Narrator]

Picture this. You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line stretching as far as your eyes can see. Then the line starts to rise, but it's not the horizon at all. It's a wave, a 30 foot wall of water, and it's racing straight toward you. On the day after Christmas in 2004, a 9.1 Magnus magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus.