#3083 RHOC S19E20: Liked and Loaded

Summary

Watch What Crappens Ep. #3083 RHOC S19E20: "Liked and Loaded" — Recap & Summary

Podcast: Watch What Crappens
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Date: November 21, 2025
Episode: #3083
Subject: Real Housewives of Orange County S19E20 (Reunion) — The Gretchen Social Media Scandal, Housewives dynamics, and Reunion fallout

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Overview

This episode centers on the bombshells dropped during The Real Housewives of Orange County season 19 reunion, specifically focusing on Gretchen Rossi’s controversial history of liking and following homophobic and transphobic social media posts. Ben and Ronnie dissect how the cast — and Bravo itself — handled (or mishandled) the revelation, grilling Gretchen’s excuses, the disingenuous response from her castmates, and the group’s collective pivot to blaming Tamra over Gretchen’s actions. The recap is equal parts sharp satire and genuine frustration, with particular attention to the uncomfortable, unresolved tensions at the heart of the episode.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bravo’s Deflection and Gretchen’s Social Media Likes

• Opening Rant: Ben and Ronnie immediately call out the show’s attempt to shift blame from Gretchen to Tamra, despite concrete evidence of Gretchen’s problematic likes.
  • Ben (05:23): “Interesting choice by this show to just ignore Gretchen's shit and blame it all on Tamra. I'm really surprised... these posts were not something that were made up... you can unlike shit, right, you dummies?... it's pretty crazy that they all know that this was real and they're all just gonna pretend that it wasn't.”
• Ronnie draws parallels to social deduction party games: Tamra, like a caught traitor, gets frantic and defensive, which is played for laughs but with a dark undercurrent.
• Everyone wants the narrative to be about leaks and “who brought it up,” not about accountability for homophobia/transphobia. The group, including the host Andy and Heather, side-step the core issue repeatedly.
  • Ronnie (14:42): “Tamra is such, like, an elite villain in the world of Bravo... she just manipulates so well... she never has had to do these [blog leaks]. So that definitely moves the needle more towards Slade. But... her behavior at the reunion just felt so guilty... Gretchen’s transgression is trans — Gretchen is the worst... And yet it’s Tamra's that seems to be the thing they really do all the roasting for. So that’s so Real Housewives.”

2. The Reunion Fallout: Gretchen’s Excuses, Cast Apathy, & Housewife Groupthink

• Gretchen’s Defense: She repeatedly claims she “mindlessly scrolled,” “didn’t know” what content she was liking, and “follows accounts from all sides.” She insists any offending post must be “doctored.”
  • Gretchen (24:56 as impersonated by Ronnie): “Well, I want to make it clear that there’s absolutely no excuse for liking anything that has any sort of, like, offensive sentiment... I denounce anything that... maybe seems homophobic or transphobic or anything like that, because I was just confused and I was shocked by what was being brought forward to me.”
  • Ben’s snap (27:25): “You accidentally like something that says... [anti-trans meme]? You accidentally like something on Matt Walsh blog that you follow and probably still follow. I mean, come on.”
• Heather Dubrow’s Disappointing Response: Despite her outspoken activism for LGBTQ+ rights, Heather pivots to “giving Gretchen grace” (37:15). She looks for “mental workarounds” to stay friends with Gretchen, even as Ben and Ronnie call this a “huge letdown.”
• Andy Cohen’s Neutrality Gone Too Far: Andy helps Gretchen with talking points, implying it’s possible not to know what’s on your feed if you follow too many accounts, which Ben finds infuriating (36:44).
  • Ben (44:04): “I get you’re a host, but at least don’t stand there and help her out: ‘yeah, you probably didn’t see [those posts] because you just follow so many accounts…’ Sit down. Just sit this one out, please!”

3. Cast Pile-on Tamra, Deflecting from Real Issues

• Group Dynamics: The entire cast, production, and even reunion moderators shift focus from Gretchen’s behavior to Tamra’s supposed plotting or leaking. Ronnie jokes that everyone is a “Spider-Man meme,” endlessly pointing fingers.
  • Ronnie (65:34): “This entire reunion... all the Spider Man. They're all pointing like, but you. But you. But you.”
• Rewriting History: Claims emerge that Gretchen is somehow the victim: she didn't realize, she was ambushed, the posts were “fake”, etc. The cast apologizes for confronting her at dinner, pivoting the emotional narrative to Gretchen’s “feelings” being hurt (70:12).
  • Ben (66:43): “I think production didn’t want them to bring this stuff up in the first place. It’s a huge can of worms. It’s a huge mess, which they could have avoided by not bringing Gretchen back in the first place… now they’re just gonna pretend like, let’s just whitewash this. Let’s just get over it and let’s just turn this into a fun fight against Tamra. And I think it’s disgusting and Heather is a part of it.”

4. Bravo’s Broader Problem: Who Really Gets “Canceled?”

• Ben and Ronnie’s Frustration: Both hosts passionately question why overt bigotry gets brushed aside or rationalized — by Bravo, the cast, and even its queer hosts and vocal allies. They note that a significant chunk of the RHOC audience and even cast members probably hold similar views or sympathize, fueling the network’s reticence to make a stand.
  • Ben (45:20): “Now it’s kind of in vogue again to have these kinds of hateful thoughts... bigots are kind of taking over right now. They’re very in fashion and they’re all patting themselves on the back... if you go against it, they will try and cancel your ass.”
• Ronnie empathizes but pushes back against the need for constant “couching” of criticisms by the left (53:19), insisting it’s valid to call out hate without needing to listen to “both sides.”
  • Ronnie (54:26): “If someone...likes [memes] that advocates for someone’s rights to be taken away... you’re allowed to say that’s offensive to me without having to worry about, like, but I understand what you’re saying.”

5. Memorable Quotes & Comedic Moments

• Deflection & Frustration:
  • Ben (25:23): “Just fire her for that. Can we just fire her for not being able to pronounce ‘sentiment’ and pronouncing it ‘cinnamon’?”
  • Gretchen (as impersonated, 33:07): “I greatly apologize if I like something that was offensive or had offensive cinnamon in it.”
• Satirical Take on Housewives Group Think:
  • Ronnie (37:15): “It’s like she’s looking for a way that she can justify maintaining some sort of like, friendly relationship with Gretchen... how can someone be so strident about certain stances but then be kind of oddly forgiving?”
• Bravo Production:
  • Ben (10:05): “Why is production never considered one of the leaks ever? Like, to me, it’s always so obvious that, like, it could be just some person, some messy person on production…”

6. Concluding Thoughts

• Ben’s Final Word (50:25): “I would rather Gretchen just say, listen, these are my opinions and I’m sorry you don’t like them, but I have a different political idea than all of you... at least she would have some nuts. Grow some heels, you know what I mean? Be a real fucking person. If that’s what you believe, then that’s what you believe. Just like I believe what I believe.”
• Ronnie ultimately points out: that the ambiguity, evasion, and collective refusal to hold Gretchen accountable is the Real Housewives: “That’s so Real Housewives.”

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Ben (05:23): “I'm actually pretty surprised by that. I didn't buy one second of that horseshit. So I guess I'd like to start this recap off by saying, fuck you, Gretchen, and fuck you, Bravo for doing this.”
• Ronnie (07:10): “Here's how I know that Tamara is caught. Cause she's acting like me every time I'm a secret bad guy in mafia or something.”
• Ben (14:42): “Tamra has been using these tactics for years. And they got her. They got her.”
• Ronnie (15:44): “Gretchen is the worst, and it's offensive, and it's, like, really terrible. And yet it's Tamra's that seems to be the thing that they really do all the roasting for.”
• Ben (27:25): “You accidentally like something … on Matt Walsh blog that you follow and probably still follow. I mean, come on.”
• Andy (36:44): “If you're following 4,500 accounts, it stands to reason that you're not seeing what most of these accounts are posting on a daily basis.”
• Ben (44:04): “What the fuck is this guy doing? This is so annoying … at least don't stand there and help her out. … Just sit this one out, please.”
• Ben (45:20): “Bigots are kind of taking over right now. They're very in fashion and they're all patting themselves on the back.”
• Ben (50:25): “I would rather Gretchen just say, listen, these are my opinions … at least she would have some nuts. I mean, grow some heels, you know what I mean?”

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• [05:20–14:40] — Opening blast: Bravo deflects from Gretchen, cast piles on Tamra
• [22:58–42:43] — The “scrolling defense,” social media discussion, cast gaslighting
• [44:04–46:59] — Andy and Heather’s complicity, performative “accountability”
• [50:00–54:56] — Broader societal context: why hate is tolerated, Ben & Ronnie’s frustration
• [61:09–66:43] — “Plotting” and shifting blame, messiness among the group

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Summary in the Hosts' Own Tone

Snarky, exasperated, and unafraid to be honest: Ben and Ronnie rage at the way Bravo, the cast, and even the reunion host conspire to shift responsibility away from Gretchen, who’s presented with copious evidence of anti-LGBT social media activity. Wild, desperate deflections (“cinnamon” instead of “sentiment,” cyber analysis reports) abound. In the irony that is the Housewives universe, the real villain is scapegoated, the supposed allies stay silent, and everyone seems more concerned someone’s feelings were hurt at dinner than about actual bigotry.

The hosts end with a pointed note: if the show’s message is to ignore real harm for the sake of storyline, no amount of folding tutorial videos on Heather’s Instagram feed can smooth out the “darkness and toxicity” lurking underneath.

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End of Part 1. For expanded recap, check for Part 2 in your podcast feed!

Transcript

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Heather Dubrow]

Hello, hello, Virgin Voyages. Are you ready to hear a set from DJ Meredith Marks?

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

Wow, what a gorgeous club. I know her.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Heather Dubrow]

Okay, Brittany, I'm gonna need you to quiet down because I'm about to start my DJ set right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Go Meredith.

[Ronnie Caram]

Woo hoo.

[Tamra Judge]

Meredith, can you see any bachelors up there?

[Heather Dubrow]

I don't see anything. I'm trying to focus on spinning this sweet turntable right now. Cause I'm a dj. Hey, Brittany, are you recording me? Are you recording me?

[Ben Mandelker]

No, I wasn't recording you at all. I was just trying to take a selfie.

[Gretchen Rossi]

You can't record me while I'm doing my DJs.

[Ben Mandelker]

And I just have my phone out because I was using the calculator until I realized there's no bill here, so I don't even have to come up with a tip.

[Heather Dubrow]

You're lying, Brittany. And I don't appreciate liars while I'm DJing for all these people in the club.

[Ben Mandelker]

I only have my phone out because I was playing Candy Crush while you were trying to dj. I'm so sorry. I was trying to save my ears. You're not.

[Heather Dubrow]

You're not. And you can leave.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

Well, hello and welcome to Watch what Crappens, a podcast about all that crap on Bravo that we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker and joining me this morning is the the one and only Ronnie Caram. Hey Ronnie, what's going on?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well hello, how are you?

[Ronnie Caram]

I am doing just fabulous. I am actually here in Dallas, Texas today because I'm at a board game convention. I'm nerding out. I'm going From BravoCon to BGG Con and so I am. I'm actually just telling you all that in case my video or my WI fi gets janky. I apologize. I am on good old fashioned hotel WI fi at the moment. But anyway, speaking of video, if you want to watch us not just listen to us, Go check out patreon.com watchcraft you can access Krappins on demand. That's our videos. We also have our bonus episode right after this. We are going to do a trailer trash on the new Real Housewives of Rhode island trailer that launched last weekend. So get excited for a lot of Dolores doppelgangers because that's pretty much what that one's all about. And aside from that, you know we got coming up, we got Amazon Live on Monday. Everyone tune in for that because it's ahead of Black Friday, so we know you're gonna want to get your deals. Okay. And that's. That's basically it from me. What's going on with you, Ronnie?

[Ben Mandelker]

Just ready to rumble with some Real Housewives of Orange County.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hey, fun times.

[Ben Mandelker]

Interesting choice by this show to just ignore Gretchen's shit and blame it all on Tamara. I'm really surprised, especially with Heather Dubrow, who has obviously LGBTQ children and is always making a stand and always has a Trevor project scene. And Heather is very much like, well, you're nice to me and my family.

[Tamra Judge]

Who cares?

[Ben Mandelker]

Who cares?

[Ronnie Caram]

Who cares?

[Ben Mandelker]

So I'm actually pretty surprised by that. I didn't buy one second of that horseshit. So I guess I'd like to start this recap off by saying, fuck you, Gretchen, and fuck you, Bravo for doing this. This is pretty crazy. I mean, they're really just gonna gaslight everybody, I guess. These posts were not something that were made up and were photoshopped and put there. And everybody acting like, oh, wow. What? Well, we couldn't find the likes. You know, you can unlike shit, right, you dummies? This has been out since 2023. I mean, and that's the compilation. It's been out a lot longer than that. That people. So it's pretty crazy that they all know that this was real and they're all just gonna pretend that it wasn't.

[Tamra Judge]

For what?

[Ben Mandelker]

To keep Gretchen. Did Gretchen bring something that I didn't realize? So that's. That's my opening thoughts. Wow.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

How about you?

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I mean, it was pretty. It was pretty wild. And then. Then segueing into the second half when they all just started piling on Tamra, that was the funniest thing to me. I was cracking up because, I don't know, Tamara just seems so caught. She seems so caught. And, you know, this is. Aside from the fact that, like, why are we deflecting onto Tamra in the first place? We shouldn't be. But the way she's just got to.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Be like, baby Slade. Obviously. Slade. It obviously with Slade.

[Ronnie Caram]

I mean, I play it a lot. Look, I'm at a board game convention, and there's a lot of these social deduction games, like the traitors and everything that we play. And she. Here's how I know that Tamara is caught. Cause she's acting like me every time I'm a secret bad guy in mafia or something. Every time I'm caught, she's. She's doing the exact same Ben Mandelker techniques.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Be like but what about this person?

[Ronnie Caram]

What about Slade? I literally, by the way, and yes, anytime I play mafia, I play Slade Smiley. I'm like, it's not me, it's Slade Smiley. I'm innocent here. Slade Smiley's have been bad. People are like, who's Slade Smiley? But I was just laughing so much at Tamra. She was so funny to me this entire episode because she was like, you know, like, the tears come on cue, but also like the way she just, like, screamed at Emily, which was hilarious.

[Gretchen Rossi]

She's like, why are you an asshole all the time?

[Ronnie Caram]

I just cracked up. So as much as it was a.

[Ben Mandelker]

Good episode, yeah, there was a lot of darkness here and a lot of toxicity. But the deflecting was fun because it's been the whole season, right? Yeah. It started with Tamara deflecting all of the naked, wasted stuff, which she thought she would be called out on by turning it into. Well, Gretchen said that I gave her a date rape truck. So it started with a very good deflection. And it's ending in. You know what? I don't even think it's a deflection. I think Tamara's right. I think it's pretty obviously Slade. I mean, in the final episode of the season, when Gretchen is crying to Slade, he's like, oh, really? Well, I'm gonna call the bloggers and I'm gonna get on this, and we'll get Tamra back. And then immediately they all get a phone call. He said something along the lines of like, oh, yeah, we're gonna figure this out. We're gonna get Tamra. Something like that. And then this happens. And now they all deleted the dm. Like, we don't even know who the d. We just read it, and then he deleted it on his end. So we never really even saw who it was. You fucking liars. You are such liars. All three of you, who are well versed by now in Instagram and bloggers and getting gossip and trafficking and gossip, none of you wrote down that name of who was sending you the dm.

[Ronnie Caram]

You're full of it. I mean, I will say. I mean, Tamara's strongest point is that she's been on the show for years and years. And this is like the. This is the only season where it's gotten, like. It's been a real issue like this with. With outside media. Although the funny part is that, like, the whole crux of the central controversy of the season is that she was talking to basically a reporter of good standing. So, like you, there's clearly Outreach. That happens. But, I mean, I would love to say that it's Slade, because I can't stand Slade. And I believe that Slade is the type that would leak every single piece of information that he had. But they did seem to have some decent logic towards the end of the episode about, you know, like, Slade wouldn't know this information that was leaked at all.

[Ben Mandelker]

He would. But of course he would know because they just shot the scene. So everybody. Everybody who was at the finale would know all of this information. It's silly. And Emily's saying, well, how would I know? You just said that you talked about Tam. You talked about these tweets with Tamara or all these likes with Tamara and Gina ago, and now you're saying there's no other person that knew except Gina and you. Well, that's not true. You knew Emily. So whoever you two big mouths talk to.

[Ronnie Caram]

So the hypothesis is. The hypothesis is that they are saying only. Only Tamara and G knew that they had that conversation in that store. And also, of course, the entire production staff. By the way, who filmed the entire thing. Why is it. By the way, why is production never considered one of the leaks ever? Like, to me, it's always so obvious that, like, it's like there could be just some person, some messy person on production, Alex Baskin.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, same with. It doesn't even have to be, oh, my God, who leaked this to the. Who could it be? Oh, really? Well, might be Alexia Baskin.

[Ronnie Caram]

I mean, it doesn't even have to be. It's fun to think that it goes that high. It doesn't even have to be that high. It just could be, like, a messy field producer who's, you know, and we've. We've met a good number of them in our lives, you know, so it could just be that.

[Ben Mandelker]

And we've also met a ton of housewives, and guess what? They leak shit all the time. Or they try to, you know, they all. So it's not. It's also not beyond any reason that Tamara did leak stuff, but it's not beyond reason that all of them did. And I don't remember a lot of stuff coming out about this season anyway. There weren't, like, huge leaks that were.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

Like, oh, guess what happens in episode three.

[Ben Mandelker]

Nothing like that even happened this season. The biggest thing that happened was this Tamara Gretchen thing. I didn't hear about the date rape drug accusations or any of that.

[Ronnie Caram]

I didn't hear about that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Did you? No, I didn't hear about that thing from the season.

[Ronnie Caram]

I heard that Katie stopped filming with a cast. I heard that there was allegations that Katie did something illegal, which is, I think the Shannon video.

[Heather Dubrow]

That's illegal.

[Ronnie Caram]

And I heard she didn't go on the cast trip. I heard things like that. I heard that Tamara had quit. I heard that she was back. So I heard things like that. In fact, that's. I think a lot of us were really excited for the season because there was so much stuff that was coming out ahead of time. But the stuff that they're specifically talking, that this, you know, FBI witness, muffled voice person's talking about, like, I heard it's Chris Samuels. It's just Chris Samuels.

[Ben Mandelker]

We really needed the. The shadow, you know, like, all that.

[Ronnie Caram]

Stuff I had not heard ahead of time. So, I mean, I don't know. We obviously don't know who the leak is, but I just felt like Tamara, whether she was the leak or not, she reminded me so much of how badly I play these social deduction games. I'm like, she's lucky she didn't make it farther into the traitors. And, like, was a traitor, because she was. She was spiraling in that. In that front chair, and she was like. Her head was going, like, left and right. And then, like, when everyone stopped listening to her, she finally starts crying to Andy. Ugh. I just. I mean, like, the stuff with Gretchen was dark. But I have to say, to me, the episode was saved by the hilarity of this wild goose chase they all were on over the stupid leaking situation.

[Ben Mandelker]

Because ultimately, I think the good thing about it, it is one situation where I believe Tamra, of all people, which made me feel extremely uncomfortable because I never agree with Tamra on shit, But I thought what was super entertaining about it was that they beat Tamra at their own game. And I thought that that was pretty wild. That I do believe 100% this is Slade. But it's also Slade beating Tamra, which is crazy. I never thought I'd see that happen. You know, someone who gets just as down and dirty with Tamra and beat her at her own game in the finale. And of course, it helps that he had the help of the cast, because the cast was like, fuck Tamra. I mean, Tamra's quit how many times this season? She's been a huge pain in the production and cast. They're all so sick of her. You can tell. I mean, they're all saying how sick. They're like, oh, God, did she quit again?

[Ronnie Caram]

Geez.

[Ben Mandelker]

And now we're letting her back in. You know, that's been a huge part of the end of the season. So the fact that she got beat and the cast actually went and said, we're going to help Slade. We all forgot who we got this DM from. We all are just going to believe all of this horseshit. We're all going to pretend that we didn't see these tweets or know that these likes were going on the whole time. That means the whole cast decided to team up and get rid of Tamra. And I thought it was pretty funny because Tamra has been using these tactics for years. And they got her. They got her. I also think that credit where credit's.

[Ronnie Caram]

Due, Tamra is such, like, an elite villain in the world of Bravo that she actually doesn't really even need to go to the blogs to get her to, like, to get her way. She just manipulates so well, and she just. She doesn't have to do these tactics and she never has had to do them. So that definitely moves the needle more towards Slade. But I just felt like her behavior at the reunion just felt so guilty. So that moves the needle back for me. I guess we'll never know. And I'm sure she'll be like, it wasn't me. And you know what? The ambiguity is part of the fun of it. But it is hilarious that Gretchen did the truly like of the offenses of leaking to quote unquote bloggers, which, of course, there are no bloggers involved, versus liking homophobic, transphobic tweets like, Gretchen's transgression is trans. Gretchen is the worst, and it's offensive, and it's, like, really terrible. And yet it's Tamra's that seems to be the thing that they really do all the roasting for. So that's so. That's so Real Housewives.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wow. Transgression really works.

[Emily Simpson]

I know.

[Ronnie Caram]

And it's also ironic on so many levels. She had a transgression, but a transgression implies that, like, she would normally. She wouldn't do that, but she had a transgression. And the sad thing is, I think that she normally she would like those things, but she was caught.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Okay, well, let's get into it tonight. So welcome back, everybody.

[Tamra Judge]

From exotic locales such as Amsterdam to New Orleans, Heather Dubrov's penthouse. Blah, blah, blah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so this first thing is just fun. We're doing mushrooms. Heather Dubrow is a cool mom, and.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

She does mushrooms whenever she can. I mean, the kids are gone, so why not?

[Ronnie Caram]

Can I say something? You know what image I think is most emblazoned into my brain from last weekend at BravoCon, when we were backstage before our panel, we got to go into the big. The backstage holding area, which is where they pretty much kept all the Bravo liberties during the convention. And it was, like the size of a massive lunchroom. And in fact, there was just tables. It was just this big, long room. Big, big, big, big, big, big room. And there are all these tables, truly like lunch tables. But there was this big aisle, and you had to walk all the way down that aisle to get to the buffet. And we were walking up that aisle, and I don't know if you saw this, Ronnie. Maybe you weren't with me, but Heather Debreau came strutting down that aisle like it was, you know, Paris Fashion Week. And she came right at us. And I think we were, like, talking with someone, because I would have said, hi, of course. I would have been like, Heather Debreau, lady of comedy, but I couldn't. But did you see her? The way she walked as she strutted down that aisle like it was a Runway? That was honestly one of the funniest images. And that's just what I think of is her with her shoulders going back and forth like, you better work.

[Emily Simpson]

Work it, girl. Television's Heather Dubrow.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

I may or may not be on mushrooms.

[Ben Mandelker]

Cool, Mom. No, I didn't. I didn't see that. Because you tended to see the Bravo Liberty I saw towards the end of the tunnel, which was cookies. That's all I saw. I was like, how many of those can I have? What are those made out of? You know, I didn't really see anybody unless we literally tripped over them. I know, because I was concentrating on whatever calories were surrounding me at the time.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, what was so alarming is, I mean, I, too, was looking at the cookies, and we finally got the cookies, and then that's when Shane Simpson came right up to us, and it's like, ah, Shane Simpson. He's saying hello to us. I'm just looking at the cookies.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay? So we talk about how wacky everybody is with their space cakes and their mushrooms. Everybody's really cool guys. And then we talk about how Katie didn't know the. She didn't know England was an island or, you know, what the Mississippi river was. And so, you know, everybody admits that none of them know, you know, and, you know, I admit that I'm not surprised, but I also probably wouldn't know either. I mean, I'm kind of a ding dong with all that stuff. So does anyone still have Their painted dick from Amsterdam.

[Tamra Judge]

And Gretchen's like, no, I just have a broken dick. That's all.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Andy's like, wow, good one, Gretchen.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hey, this is special.

[Ben Mandelker]

It was actually the only sign that we had that Andi just wants her.

[Ronnie Caram]

Out of there, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Cause the rest of the time, he was like, all right, I'll toe the company line and rally behind Gretchen. But this one, he just went, wow, good one. Gretchen kind of looked back at his cards.

[Ronnie Caram]

Gretchen and Jerry o' Connell should do, like, a special together where Jerry o' Connell could be like, guys get their dicks broken. Women break their face for facelifts. Am I right, everyone? God. Men and women.

[Ben Mandelker]

Women break their nails, and men break their dicks.

[Tamra Judge]

Yeah.

[Heather Dubrow]

Isn't that funny?

[Tamra Judge]

There's a straight guy opinion on Housewives.

[Heather Dubrow]

Whoa.

[Ronnie Caram]

Isn't it crazy? I'm a straight guy, but I'm talking about women's stuff. Isn't that.

[Tamra Judge]

No.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, my God. All right, see you on the next episode.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then we talk about Heather shooting the scene about her dad in front pouring the ashes into the canal, which I still find kind of odd. I mean, that's like, hey, dad, you lived here. And then you pour his ashes into the gutter. Love you, dad. But I guess it kind of fit. Yeah.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

Goodbye, cocksucker.

[Ben Mandelker]

So we talk about that and how touching it was and how many similarities she has with Emily once they really talked and realized, like, wow, her parents are both kind of monsters. And I don't know. I don't know what else they had in common, but it just.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

We both have sandwiches in our purse. Just kidding. That's mace.

[Emily Simpson]

Normally, I use the mace on Emily Simpson and People of the Servant class, but today we put the mace aside and bonded.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

I usually use the mace on carbs, so I've got mace in my purse in case Emily decides to pull out.

[Ben Mandelker]

Any more tuna sandwiches. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a Crappin's commercial with multiview from Xfinity, you can watch up to four football games at once, which can lead to some tough choices. French toast nibblers or breakfast nachos.

[Ronnie Caram]

Actually, I was thinking about heading out.

[Ben Mandelker]

Only because I want to beat the traffic. The best part of the sleepovers. The next day, I was going to.

[Heather Dubrow]

Throw the games on Bobby Big Wheels. I mean, how can you call yourself.

[Ronnie Caram]

A sports fan without Xfinity?

[Ben Mandelker]

We got the multi view, best college and pro games all in one place.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm not going anywhere.

[Ben Mandelker]

This is how football was meant to be watched Xfinity. Imagine that restrictions apply. Multiview requires Xfinity 4K capable TV box picture this.

[Narrator]

You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line stretching as far as your eyes can see. Then the line starts to rise, but it's not the horizon at all. It's a wave. A 30 foot wall of water. And it's racing straight toward you. On the day after Christmas in 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds experienced one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wondery.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Andy's like, ah, that's great.

[Heather Dubrow]

That's great. Okay, well, the season ended on a dark and dramatic note, to say the least. I want to start with the emotional final dinner in Amsterdam where you all confronted Gretchen about her alleged LOL social media activity. All right, we're getting right into it, everyone.

[Ronnie Caram]

So now we're here at the. At the. Gretchen. Gretchen liking homophobic and transphobic tweets. So we see a whole clip of that.

[Heather Dubrow]

Gretchen, your immediate excuse about liking these posts is to say, hey, if I like something, I probably didn't know what it was about, and that you weren't paying attention to what you were liking. What do you mean by that? And are we supposed to believe this in 2025? Go on.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, that many posts, you just like that many homophobic, transphobic posts. Really? Accident. Total accidents.

[Ronnie Caram]

I mean.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, go ahead.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was gonna say. I. I'm gonna say this is not a defensive Gretchen. This is may sound like it at first, but it's not. I have definitely been scrolling and I'll see like a friend just post something and I'll just like, like it. I won't even really watch the whole video. Cause I just, I know they're happy with what they posted and like, it's like a, you know, like, look, it's. It's their. It's their child, like climbing on a thing and I'll be like, like, I'm like, I'm not gonna watch that. But I know it's like I want to support them. So you'd like you know, I'm definitely blind.

[Ben Mandelker]

Then you realize later they're saying, like, oh, that was my child. Thank God he's trampling over trans rights.

[Tamra Judge]

Yes, go, child.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Mandelker]

What did I dislike on accident?

[Gretchen Rossi]

The child's like, oh, the gay should go to hell.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm like, like, like, like. But like, but like, like, like, there is a difference, I think, between, you know, aimlessly sort of going to and just, you know, supporting versus when you see, like, an obvious meme that says stuff about that's anti gay. Like, that's not something you blindly scroll by. Okay? So you can't really use this scroll by excuse. If you see giant text that's obviously about that. Like, people. You know what's on those screens there? It's. You can't do. You can't just act like you were just treating. You can't treat it the same way you treat content from your neighbor who's walking their dog down the street. Right?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, exactly. So she's like, well, I want to.

[Tamra Judge]

Make it clear that there's absolutely no excuse for liking anything that has any sort of, like, offensive sentiment. Okay? Sentiment. And I also want to make it clear to every single one of you that I denounce anything that's. That maybe seems homophobic or transphobic or anything like that, because I was just confused and I was shocked by what was being brought forward to me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, my God. It's not cinnamon. Okay, it's sentiment. But also, just fire her for that. Can we just fire her for not being able to pronounce eh and pronouncing it?

[Ronnie Caram]

I can't. She's seasoning her excuse with cinnamon.

[Ben Mandelker]

Cinnamon.

[Tamra Judge]

I wouldn't ever post something with bad cinnamon.

[Ronnie Caram]

Also, by the way, I think one thing that we haven't discussed is why also has Gretchen not been prepared for this? Because the. The. The thread that is mentioned on this reunion quite a bit is a thread that came up in 2023. It has been forward to us umpteen times. I've seen it with my own eyes. You've seen it with your own eyes. It's really long and really huge. I don't believe that someone went and doctored all those images. I. I believe that those are. They are real. And what I'm trying to say is someone surely had. Has brought this thread to Gretchen's attention. So even so. And in fact, it's probably why she unfollowed all those things. So why was she so. Why this? This. Oh, I'm surprised. Why are you so surprised when this is. This is clearly going around the Internet. It had to have been brought to her attention at some point. Like, hey, Gretchen, you're liking all this stuff and everyone's mad at you right now. What's your response to this? Like, someone had to say it. So she. Like, in my mind, I'm thinking, if you get. If you get confronted with this on the TV show, normally it'd be like, you know what? I saw that and I was appalled by that. And I unliked all those things because I was disgusted at my own behavior. And it made me realize, like, I gotta really. Whatever you. Whatever excuse you're gonna give, like, how are you not ready with that? But I think that in her mind she was saying, oh, God, I didn't think this was ever gonna be brought up on tv. And how do I handle this?

[Ben Mandelker]

She is ready for it. I don't know what you're talking about. She's extremely ready for it. She came with a plan. The plan was to act dumb and then blame Tamara for doctoring all these. To blame Tamra.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I guess, but that's what I'm saying. Like, this is like what I'm saying. Her excuses.

[Tamra Judge]

I've scrolled around, maybe I liked a couple of things.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, so you accidentally liked we teach gender ideology in school or it's normal for half of preteen classrooms to be gender questioning, blah, blah, blah. You accidentally like something that says, this is the trans influencer who went viral for flashing at the White House a couple of weeks ago about that. I mean, all this shit, you just accidentally. You just accidentally like something on Matt Walsh blog that you follow and probably still follow. I mean, come on.

[Ronnie Caram]

No, but what I'm saying is that like she's saying, I was in such shock about these things. It's like, you can't give that excuse because like, this was. This is from 2023. Like, how could you. You can't say that. You're in shock because. Because it's been going around. I'm just saying that she gave it. When she says, I'm just. I was in such shock. I didn't. The reason why I didn't have a quick answer. I was so surprised by everything. It's like you were not surprised. This had to have come to your attention because she's lying.

[Tamra Judge]

She's a liar.

[Ben Mandelker]

So she does her whole things and her whole. And Andy's like, well, did you recognize any of the posts that you saw that Tamara showed you?

[Tamra Judge]

And she's like, ah, no. And Tamara's like, well, which ones are we talking about?

[Ben Mandelker]

And Emily goes, the bleep one. Which, I mean, that could have been any of them, really.

[Tamra Judge]

And Tamara's like, but you followed the account, Dale. And she's like, well, I know that you said that I followed that account, but at the end of the day, you get nothing for nothing. And, you know, I think we've all been guilty of scrolling mindlessly at night, and maybe I saw something and I liked it. Not really looking at the content, Gretchen.

[Ben Mandelker]

It was like hundreds of. It's like multiple things. Babe, it's not two things.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, that's like me being like, oh, it was late at night. And I just like, you know, casually, like some, you know, racist, anti black memes. But, you know, it was late at night. It was like, what? No, it doesn't work that way. And for the record, I did not do that.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Heather's like, well, I get that.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

But when you have a good friend that's sitting across from the table from you who's so emotional and so invested in this and really doesn't want this to be true, I mean, I get it.

[Ben Mandelker]

You were shitting.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

But what was surprising to me is that the girls had had to say, go after Heather. Follow Heather.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so you're not. You're more upset that she didn't follow you to comfort you than you are at the post. Like, this is just. This whole episode is fucking mind boggling to me.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, it is hilarious. That. That's. That's her takeaway, which is like, I.

[Emily Simpson]

Had to walk away from the table. A celebrity who has been on Reba McEntire show, bitch. And you still didn't follow me that.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

You saw a celebrity walking away and you didn't even ask for their autograph.

[Emily Simpson]

If a celebrity falls in a farce in Amsterdam, does it still get people wanting autographs? A philosophical question for the ages.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

If a celebrity falls down but nobody's there to hear it, were they a celebrity at all? Somebody check on Reba.

[Emily Simpson]

If a celebrity falls down and no one is there to hear it, does that mean that they are just Wendy Malek?

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh.

[Tamra Judge]

So Gretchen's like, but I was legitimately like, what? Wait, are they even serious about this?

[Ben Mandelker]

And also, she seems completely benzo'd out, right? She's like, yeah.

[Tamra Judge]

I was like, are they even serious? Like, who's saying this? Because fundamentally, this is not what I believed or who I was. Cinnamon.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Tamara's like, wait, she didn't know.

[Tamra Judge]

You were following all these hate accounts? Really?

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

And Heather's like, I mean, there were just so many.

[Tamra Judge]

And she's like, nuh, no, I didn't know. I didn't know what?

[Emily Simpson]

You know, it wasn't just one. If it was just one, I would have rolled my eyes, you know, but the way it was presented to me.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Yeah, it was 200. Get her. Get her.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yes.

[Emily Simpson]

200. It's a lot. It's a lot. I mean, like, when it gets to be as many hate tweets as the number of auditions I have on a daily week, you know, it's mind boggling.

[Tamra Judge]

Gretchen's like, yeah, well, no, I follow it a lot.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Shannon's like, well, there were 200. There were 200 on that feed.

[Tamra Judge]

Well, yeah, she followed. She unfollowed over 200 accounts when she got back from Amsterdam.

[Ben Mandelker]

Which also proves how stupid Gretchen is, because like you said, she had been kind of in trouble for this off camera for so long, and she didn't unfollow until she got home from Amsterdam. She's like, she didn't bother unfollowing until she was like, oh, I guess they're gonna call me out on this on tv.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Shannon's like, well, but how do.

[Tamra Judge]

You know they're all, you know, that they're all hate accounts. Yes, I know.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Jen's like, but you know what? You know, I'll tell you what, it taught me a lesson. You know what I thought, wow, I really need to pay attention. I mean, who do I even follow? Who do I follow?

[Ronnie Caram]

You know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I mean, I need to pay attention too. I had to make sure that I wasn't following someone with anti Asian shit on their thing. But I didn't follow Jen, so I was safe.

[Ronnie Caram]

I love how Jen's takeaway from every single season of Real Housewives of Orange county is. You know, I realized looking back at.

[Heather Dubrow]

The season, I just have to pay more attention.

[Ronnie Caram]

You know, when I learned that I didn't have any money to my name, I just realized, I gotta pay more attention.

[Heather Dubrow]

When I realized that, like, Ryan had.

[Ronnie Caram]

Been sending dick pics to other girls, I just realized I gotta pay more attention, girl.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's like the ultimate thing for Jen to say. Wow, you know what I learned?

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

I really need to pay more attention.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you so much for your anti trans posts.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thank you so much.

[Ben Mandelker]

You really taught me something. God, we all learned a lesson here today. You know what? Let's all lift Gretchen up above our shoulders. All I really want to do is learn in this life. Thank you, Gretchen.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thank you, Gretchen.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you so much.

[Ronnie Caram]

Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Heather Dubrow]

Thank you.

[Ronnie Caram]

Good old Jen. Always learning.

[Gretchen Rossi]

I mean, listen, I greatly apologize if I like something that was offensive or had offensive cinnamon in it. But I will say that the one post that was brought forward, it was very upsetting to me. It was very suspect to me, and it doesn't align with who I am.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's like, you are you, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rossi]

I'm someone who doesn't believe in gay rights. I mean, I'm someone who believes in gay rights.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Tamara's like, but then why would you follow people like that? You know, all this guy does is put stuff like that. And she's like, well, right.

[Tamra Judge]

But I took steps to go and look at who I was following because I had, like, 4,500 accounts or something I was following, you know, so, like, maybe that's my mistake. I follow too many accounts. And, like, maybe I didn't know what they were posting because, you know, I follow left wing accounts. I follow right wing accounts. And, like, back in 2020, when the election was going on, that's why I followed those accounts.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, that's when you followed, like, the, you know, those far right. Like, the extremely far right, hateful accounts. Like, what is. How is that an excuse? It's like, well, it was political season. Listen, I was just hating on gays and trans people. It was the political season.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was just caught up in it. I was caught up in it, you.

[Heather Dubrow]

Know, and he's like, well, it is a free country, by the way, and you can follow the right wing accounts. You can follow whoever you want. And maybe you should follow the accounts that browse ZABOTV.com.

[Ronnie Caram]

All right, I'll throw in that.

[Heather Dubrow]

Okay, so Gretchen, tell me more.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Gretchen's like, true, and I will.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Say it was a good lesson for me to learn. And so I went and I re. And I rectified it, and I went and I looked at a lot of the accounts I was following, and I was like, I do not stand for.

[Heather Dubrow]

This, and I am not gonna follow.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Accounts that have this type of rhetoric. And I don't know why I initially.

[Ben Mandelker]

Rhetoric, or do you say rhetoric, too? Did I make you say rhetoric? Because, yes, you did. I've always. I've always pronounced it that way. That is my bad, and I'm sorry for brainwashing you.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I can just go behind the fact that I was doing a Gretchen impersonation. It definitely was not Ben Mandlinger pronouncing it that way. Definitely not at all.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's how I Pronounce it.

[Ronnie Caram]

You know what's really terrible? For some reason, somewhere in the past three years, I cannot stop saying apropos as apropos. And that's not correct. 100% apropos. And I don't know where that came from. That's good.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Apropos. Apropos of nothing, however. Apropro. Rhetoric. Oh, no, I said rhetoric. Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

This is the best part, and I interrupted you. So go. Go for it.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Let me get a running start and what I was gonna say, because it's a really salient point. Okay, I'm not gonna follow accounts that have this type of rhetoric. I don't know.

[Heather Dubrow]

Initially, I followed it, but maybe they.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Had a post about God. Maybe they had a post about something.

[Ronnie Caram]

Tamara's.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Eh, I don't know. I can't tell you why, because it's a lot of accounts. And the reason why I followed something and didn't follow something. I don't know. I'm just a girl.

[Tamra Judge]

I just follow things that say nice things about God. I don't know why people are upset with me. I was just following nice posts about God.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, you're just such a fucking good person, Gretchen.

[Ronnie Caram]

I love it.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm so sorry, guys.

[Tamra Judge]

I liked all these hateful posts because I love God.

[Ben Mandelker]

So sorry. Sorry you misunderstood that.

[Heather Dubrow]

Andy's like, all right, let me help you out.

[Ronnie Caram]

Because you seem just suing all the.

[Heather Dubrow]

Wrong things, by the way, if you're willing. If you're following 4,500 accounts, it stands to reason that you're not seeing what most of these accounts are posting on a daily basis. There you go. It's a freebie, Gretchen. Run with that.

[Ben Mandelker]

What the fuck is this guy doing? This is so annoying. You know, this is really disappointing coming from him and Heather. Everybody else, I could kind of understand, you know, because I don't doubt that they're not following a lot of these same accounts, but Andy and Heather are really killing me. Like. Like, you know what, Andy? I get you're a host and you don't. I'm not expecting him to necessarily attack her and be like, you fucking homophobe. What the fuck were we thinking? Or anything like that. I'm not expecting that. Okay? I'm not a crazy person, but at least don't stand there and help her out. Like, yeah, you probably didn't see him.

[Tamra Judge]

Because you just follow so many accounts.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, come on, sit down. Just sit this one out, please. Jesus. She doesn't need any more help.

[Emily Simpson]

Can I say something to you? As long as Rondell Caram is acting like. Like I am not an ally anymore. Can I say something that will absolutely not let Gretchen off the hook? I've known you a very long time, and all those times, you've never gotten a role on Malibu Country. So I think when you initially said that, that was a lie. But other than that, I think 14 years, you have never been anything but kind to me and my family. And I never believed that you were that kind of person. But I have people that I have had in my life for a very long time that I thought were that way and found out some very disturbing things that go against my family and my children specifically, and everything I believe in, and that it has shattered me. And I will tell you that what I've heard over the years, rumblings of this kind of rhetoric from you in different communities that I have always chosen to ignore. But when I saw all those posts and saw that you liked them, this is what worries me. Gretchen Rossi, when you follow a multitude of hate mongers, what you are going to see in your page is hate.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, I mean, nice monologue, but you basically just said you just took a very long road to say, yeah, I've known for a long time you were like this, but you've always been nice to me. So stop following. Stop liking shit so you don't get caught. That's what it sounds like to me. So Emily's like, well, she's saying, like, you know, like ours, like dogs. That's what we got on ours, because that's who we follow. Dog accounts.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I'm saying this yours, Emily, yours is animals. Gina, yours is Windex and other things that the maids need, etcetera, to clean my house. And I don't know, I'm assuming that Katie, I don't know what she sees, maybe just lies. And I see. I don't know, I see trips to Venice, etc. But, Gretchen, you see hate. You see hate.

[Tamra Judge]

Well, my page. My page is all fitness and possums falling in love and Possum's gotten trash cans and stuff like that.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

I mean, it shows what you follow.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Andy's like, well, mine's guys.

[Tamra Judge]

I like Twinks and Housewives and like, Diana Ross was pretty much the occasional Charo post.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

And Heather's like, yeah, I have Kate decorating and folding.

[Emily Simpson]

Hey, and also how to fire a butler. Oh, God, I love those videos.

[Ben Mandelker]

I love the Heather Follows folding videos.

[Ronnie Caram]

I want to make fun of that, but I too have seen my fair share of folding videos because I'm Such a bad folder. I really am. You know, I'm just one of the.

[Ben Mandelker]

You're a bad folder. Go ahead.

[Ronnie Caram]

No, I don't have anything to add to it. I'm just a bad folder. Sorry.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

You need to watch more videos. I have all of my staff watching them. And then I have videos of people trying to get past gates they don't have codes to. And being electrocuted. It's hilarious.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, you know what I love? I love those videos of a dad coming home from the military and surprising their child. And then their boss gives them bowls to bring to Nobu. So heartwarming.

[Tamra Judge]

But, Heather, you've got to understand, that was a small percentage of all the accounts. I follow.

[Ben Mandelker]

There were a lot of posts, ma'.

[Tamra Judge]

Am.

[Ben Mandelker]

There were lots and lots of posts. And Tamara's like, well, the last few.

[Tamra Judge]

Days, you've been unlocking problematic posts. Huh? Huh? She goes, no, I told you guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Emily's like, wait, how do you know what she unlikes and likes? How does the Internet work? You can see if people like things and if they don't like them, that is crazy. And Gretchen's like, yeah, that's a word. And Tama's like, well.

[Tamra Judge]

Cause I printed out two days ago how the post that she still had locks on and all, but this one making fun of Dylan about being on the Bud Light cam. That's the only one that she still liked by you, Gretchen.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, Gretchen still left that one up. She still left that one up. That's the one that Heather probably hates the most because she's friends with Dylan.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. I mean, Gretchen's like, that's where she draws the line. She's like, I can't fake it anymore. I have to stand up for Bud Light. I cannot really. Dylan Mulvaney drinking Bud Light? God forbid. Andy's like, okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

Andy's like, but wait, isn't that a good thing? Like, shouldn't she have unlike them? I mean, wasn't that the right thing to do? Andy, you're killing me here. The point is, she's deleting them because it's the reunion and she doesn't want to be caught, right?

[Ronnie Caram]

Not because she. Not because she had a change of heart. And Shannon just turns to Gretchen's like, you.

[Heather Dubrow]

You didn't. Unlike the Dylan Mulvaney ones.

[Gretchen Rossi]

No, I did.

[Heather Dubrow]

Wait, did you unfollow or did you unlike. She goes, both. She was like, I can't follow this anymore. This is too complicated for me.

[Tamra Judge]

Sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Tamara's like, oh, God.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Tamara printed out all this stuff.

[Heather Dubrow]

And Andy's like, okay, well, so she just went through. And she unfollowed a bunch of things.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I appreciate the accountability, and it.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Was a good lesson for me, which is, if you have a reunion coming up, always unfollow the hate memes that you liked. That way you can like them again later.

[Emily Simpson]

What.

[Ben Mandelker]

What was the accountability, Heather? The whole. I didn't mean to and I just scrolled things that I had no idea what they were and liked. Hundreds of posts, and these are deep fakes. How is that accountability? It's this cat. They're losing their minds on this.

[Ronnie Caram]

I will say.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, listen, I'm not going to say that Housewives audiences are always the brightest, okay? But come on, are we really this stupid?

[Ronnie Caram]

I will say this is what it really strikes me as. In all honesty, it strikes me as Heather, I think, really likes Gretchen, and I think she. Heather is looking for mental workarounds. So that way she can still. She can still be friends with Gretchen. Because I think it's too devastating. I think it's almost like too devastating for her to like, to face. To face this. That's what I really think is what's going on with Heather. Because I don't. I'm actually surprised, too. I think it's really bad. I mean, it's your children here, and it's what you stand for. It's like you just did an event in WeHo during the season. You have Dylan on your show, and the fact that she's sort of, like, looking for mental workarounds, to me, it says that this is someone that she really. I think she just is having a really hard time reconciling the Gretchen that she thinks of that she really adores versus the Gretchen that is really sitting here. And I don't think she's really at a place yet where she can. And she's able to kind of, like, deal with that.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think that's very giving and kind of you to think that. I obviously disagree. I think that she's doing this because she thinks this is too dark. And honestly, you're talking about a lot of people in the country that feel like Gretchen feel. Right? So there's not. This is not something crazy that Gretchen. These posts that Gretchen liked, these are not something that all of us are unfamiliar with. We see it as gay people. We see it all the time. We've heard it our whole fucking lives. And now it's kind of in vogue again to have these kinds of hateful thoughts to the point where they're not even hateful at all. They're just normal. And now you're just expected to stand by and listen to this shit every fucking day of your life as the racist and the homophobe take over. And that's just how it is. Bigots are kind of taking over right now. They're very in fashion and they're all patting themselves on the back. And if you go against it, they will try and cancel your ass. And that's just how it is. And I think that Heather's not wanting to get into that. She doesn't want to have to listen. Half that Bravo audience at least is going to. I already saw a lot of the comments they were leaving on Heather's Instagram after the Amsterdam thing, when they were blaming them all for getting on Heather, when they were blaming them all for going after Gretchen without finding out that these posts were true. Like, people are like, they weren't true. And you guys are going after Gretchen.

[Tamra Judge]

You're being mean and na na, na, na na.

[Ben Mandelker]

And calling Heather's kids all sorts of names. And I think that she's like, I don't want to tangle with that side of the country right now. It's not worth it to me. And that is half our audience, and I don't want to hear it. And I think that that's where she's coming from. And I don't know that I really blame her.

[Ronnie Caram]

I think it could be a mix.

[Ben Mandelker]

It is pretty disappointing if you're gonna make your whole storyline about standing up for what's right and then you don't stand up for what's right because it's too hard, you know, I think it.

[Ronnie Caram]

Could be a mix. I think there could be a genuine concern about that because it really is an issue. People are losing their jobs, you know, and they're losing a whole lot more because of bigots. Voter rights, obviously, yes, but like, for people just for, for saying certain things, you know, when, when there's like definitely like some bigoted mindset out there in the, in the country. So there could, it could be somewhat fear based, but, you know, I, and I'm not seeing this as an excuse, but like, in terms of like, how can someone be so strident about certain stances, but then seems to be kind of almost looking for, like when she says, well, at least you were accountable, it's like she's looking for a way that she can justify maintaining some sort of like, friendly relationship with, with Gretchen. And that's why I'm saying, like, I, you know, I think we all know we've. We've all had people in our lives who are, you know, they are on different ends of the political spectrum and they do things that you're like, that's. You say that's problematic to me, you know, but they stay in your lives because there's enough history and, you know, you feel like you know who they are as a person. You know, like, you're like, on one hand, you're like, I probably should.

[Ben Mandelker]

Should.

[Ronnie Caram]

I should drop this person as a friend. I really should, because I'm actually, like, offended by them. But somehow they stay in your life in some weird way. And we all know it's like, you know, there's family members, sometimes that can happen. Luckily, luckily, none of my immediate family members have that. I have no issue with that. And I think that that's what's happening with Gretchen, with. With Heather, is that she's trying to deal with the fact that she's had this long friendship with Gretchen that she. She's really enjoyed it. And I think that, like, she's. I think she's just trying to figure out a way. But I think for us as outsiders, their friendship, it's like, how could you stand for these things? How could you have an event in West Hollywood? How could you have these radio shows and you have these children that you advocate for? And that's all really wonderful that you do that, but how can you do that and sort of be oddly forgiving to Gretchen? And that's. That's really a hard pill to swill.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, it's not swallow. It's not even forgiving it. It's not even forgiving it. Because Gretchen's not apologizing for anything. She's just playing dumb and saying she never did any of that. And Heather knows that that's bullshit. She knows. She is. She knows she's a huge trumpy. She's posting online with her hats and her this and her that and her anti vax shit and all of this. Heather knows exactly who that is. And as far as people, you know, that we deal with in our own lives, of course, I mean, I talk about it all the time. I come from a very religious, conservative family. I have these arguments all the time with people very close to me that I'm not dumping, but I am telling to fuck off every time we have those conversations. And I am trying to explain the other side to them. But when it comes to a friend, no, I'm not going to listen to this shit. Absolutely not. When it comes to my family, you don't choose your family. You make that work. But when it comes to friends and people I have in my life, there's absolutely no fucking way. And I think that a lot of this is just producer. I think production didn't want them to bring this stuff up in the first place. It's a huge can of worms. It's a huge mess, which they could have avoided by not bringing Gretchen back in the first place when, you know all those posts are out there, you ding dongs. But instead they're just gonna pretend like, let's just whitewash this. Let's just get over it and let's just turn this into a fun fight against Tamra. And I think it's disgusting and Heather is a part of it, so sorry. She's. She's. She's just as bad in my eyes and I hate saying it, but, you know, that's what I see, so fuck her too.

[Ronnie Caram]

I would have liked her. I would have liked her to have. To have been stronger against Gretchen. It was a little surprising that she was, she was. Her vibe was more like, I'm just dis. I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed. And I would have liked her to. To be more like Gretchen. I don't care what you say. You like these things. This is offensive to my family. And I really expected a lot more from you. And I felt like we didn't. I mean, we got that on the episode, on the episode itself in Amsterdam. But it was surprising that she was sort of soft on Gretchen, I thought, as well.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, Nandi too, coming up with excuses and being like, oh, no, but she did unfollow people. Isn't that the right thing to do?

[Tamra Judge]

She's doing great, guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

This is really. It's just, it's a. Mind watching this, honestly?

[Ronnie Caram]

Commercials.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Here comes one right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, Jen, Gretchen's like, it was a lesson.

[Tamra Judge]

I don't subscribe to it and I don't align with it.

[Ben Mandelker]

You subscribe to all of them and you align with all of those accounts. So whatever. I would. You know what? I would rather Gretchen just say, listen, these are my opinions and I'm sorry you don't like them, but I have a different political idea than all of you. And I think you know my right as a one. Whatever the arguments are for the anti trans stuff or the anti gay stuff, the religious arguments against anti gay stuff, all of this that we're seeing every day, every one of us is seeing this every day. I wish she would Just have stood up for it and said, this is what I think, and I'm sorry that you guys don't agree with it, but it's nothing personal against you. These are my beliefs. I still wouldn't agree with it. And I'd still be yelling and screaming and pissed off over here, but at least she would have some nuts. I mean, grow some heels, you know what I mean? Be a real fucking person. If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. Just like I believe what I believe. And I'm ready for all the comments that are gonna come at me and call me a reverse bigot and everything else that I hear whenever I go off like this from religious nuts. I'm willing to take it. So fucking take it. If you have an opinion, then be willing to stand up and stand up for your opinion, you know? But this whole I'm gonna do it and then just pretend I'm too stupid to understand what I did, and I'm the real victim here. Cause you guys are calling me out. I mean, that's what we're hearing all the time now. If you call out bigotry, we're the bigots. Because how dare you?

[Tamra Judge]

Oh, I thought you were the accepting ones, huh?

[Ben Mandelker]

But you don't accept my bigotry. You know, that's exactly what we're seeing here. And to see the gay person and the person who supposedly supports gay person, gay people bending to that is just gross. Like, I don't. I don't know. I don't know what else to say.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, no, it's upsetting. It's very upsetting. It's so upsetting. Forget about Camille grammar.

[Ben Mandelker]

By the way, if you try to rob my house, I'm gonna shoot you. That was in the headlines today, Mauricio. Threatening to kill people if they crazy.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm glad that that's like now, I guess the discourse that's happening in public these days, I guess it's the top down effect. So just to lighten it up a little bit.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thanks, Mauricio.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I actually also, I mean, I know we're trying to move on from this. I also do think that there is a part like what you, you. You touched on it, which is that, like, probably Heather just wants to move forward with this.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's.

[Ronnie Caram]

I think it's an uncomfortable situation for her that there's someone that is a friend of hers, but the friend is also hateful and it's just like she doesn't want to, I think, deal with this right now. On the reunion. It is more fun, it's more entertaining for the whole audience. Months to talk about, like, you know, grilling Tamra about, you know, who, who leaked what, you know, and so she's probably putting a nice little like, well, at least you took accountability, you know, showing that she's the reasonable one. And, you know, like, let's move, let's move on. Also, there's this, like, I also do think that there is this pressure on, on us to, you know, that, that people who are more left, lean left have been sort of put in this, put this label, that we're like this totally irrational left leaning, you know, mob who doesn't listen to reason, who doesn't listen to the other side. And that's always been our problem, is that we're in our ivory towers and we don't understand the real world. So there is this, like, pressure to be like, okay, I hear what you're saying, I hear what you're saying. And I wonder if that is something that Heather is also catering to, which is like, you did something really hateful. And I will give you some. Okay, you did, took some accountability, so I will grant you that. But, you know, and so, you know, that's also frustrating that like, you know, we have to do that all the time because we've been accused of being totally, you know, not. We've been accused of not listening to the other side. But the truth is, I think, like, when you've been. If someone is saying, hey, like, I'm, I'm gonna like this. I'm gonna like this meme that goes out to a hundred thousand people that advocates for someone's rights to be taken away and advocates for someone to be viewed as lesser than and then could lead to some. To violence against a person. Could lead to me for it to be less safe for me to walk around on a street without getting punched in the face or even who knows what. Like, I think you're allowed to say that's offensive to me without having to worry about, like. But I understand what you're saying. Like, I don't know why we have to couch things when it comes to, like, rights.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, that's what this whole fucking thing is. It's like, let's just ignore it. So Jen, now we get Jen spin. Okay? Jen, who acts like the biggest dummy in the world, comes with her spin to help out Gretchen. So she's like, well, but the post came from somewhere, right? So if you're telling us it wasn't you, then where did it come from? And Tamara's like, wait, the posts were real? And Gretchen's like, wait, you mean the original post? And Jen's like, yeah, I mean, where did that come from, huh? Go ahead, blame Tamara. That's what I'm setting you up to do right now.

[Tamra Judge]

And Gretchen's like, well, that is a question. So when I went home, I hired a cyber analysis company. And you, Heather, said to me, I need you to prove to me it's not true. So I did. I spent thousands of dollars.

[Ben Mandelker]

You should have sent that to that mother who still needs the child support that Slate hasn't paid.

[Tamra Judge]

Getting a cyber analysis done on these posts. And you can see it's a 25 page report. The most egregious post is a fabricated, fake post.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, God. Okay, okay, Gretchen, so what about the other 199 ones? Even if we believe you, which I don't for one second, and did they show which is the most egregious post? Right?

[Ronnie Caram]

They didn't. But I am. I am wondering, between the lie detector and this cyber analysis firm, I am wondering what's going on in Orange county with these. These online experts.

[Heather Dubrow]

Sandy's like, well, it's important to note that at the time.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's reading it now.

[Heather Dubrow]

At the time of our initial investigation, the most egregious and offensive post did not exist anywhere online. Our system detected it may be a combination of AI and some other image editing software. And the software is called technological and malevolent ratio antagonism, also known as Tamra.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Whoa, what are the thought.

[Ronnie Caram]

Who would have thought?

[Tamra Judge]

We've been using software that's called, if you're gonna use me, at least give me a taco.

[Heather Dubrow]

Okay.

[Tamra Judge]

And it found that these posts are fake.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Tamara's like, wait a minute, did.

[Tamra Judge]

We even have AI three years ago? I mean, come on.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Andy's like, okay.

[Tamra Judge]

Leading to the conclusion that it's a manufactured post and could not be authenticated. Tamara's like, okay, well, it's probably a post that Instagram removed because it had the word, the F word in there.

[Ben Mandelker]

And so Gretchen's like, well, this third.

[Tamra Judge]

Party cyber analysis company continued to do a lot of research on a lot of accounts that unfortunately were tied to Tamro.

[Ronnie Caram]

Was this third party cyber analysis company, the Liberace foundation, by any chance?

[Ben Mandelker]

Exactly, exactly. They continue to do a lot of research on a lot of accounts that unfortunately were tied to Tamra. So are you saying that Tamra was the. Tamra was the honey pot, like she was coming up with far Right. Horrible gay people or pedophiles. She was coming up with all these posts to trick you into liking them, so then she could use those later because you've already admitted that you had to go and follow 200 accounts. And unlike all of these things, like, we've already got that into evidence, right? Where Gretchen has basically said, yeah, and Andy said she's doing the right thing by deleting all of these likes. But now you're saying that these posts are faked. So which is it? Yeah, Were they fake posts or were you tricked into liking the posts? This makes no sense.

[Ronnie Caram]

I wasn't really. I think she was trying to say, like, no, I'm not the. The. Like, I'm not the one who likes to hate accounts. Actually, the hate accounts. It's Tamara who's actually connected to them.

[Gretchen Rossi]

So Tamara's like, oh my God, I was suing your fucking ass.

[Heather Dubrow]

And Gina's like, what does that even mean? I feel bad. I can't follow.

[Gretchen Rossi]

And Gretchen's like, okay, then sue my ass. No, I have nothing to do with this.

[Tamra Judge]

Nothing.

[Heather Dubrow]

So Andy's like, well, how did you find that pose? How did you find this?

[Gretchen Rossi]

And Tamara's like, it's been cycling around social media for a long time, Bear.

[Ronnie Caram]

And it really has. Like, Tamara is not lying about this. It is. I mean, again, the number of people that have sent it to us, it's staggering.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's for years. It's been four years. And it hasn't only been during this season. It's been a long, long time that Gretchen's been doing this shit. And everybody knows it, including Andy, by the way. So what? Where'd this post come from?

[Tamra Judge]

How'd you even find it? And time was like, well, it's been sad, it's been tackling, it's been around.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Gretchen says, it's not. And Shannon's like, well, you said it.

[Tamra Judge]

Came from two T's in a pod.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, no, she didn't. She said that it was a headline on two teas and a. It was a headline that I heart sent them because it was going viral this season. But that post was from 2023. The one that compiled all of this stuff that they're talking about is from 2023.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I think that also, I think the. The mentality is like, again, a lot of Bravo stars, a large chunk of them are conservative, right wing, and a lot of them have gone and liked problematic posts. I mean, Corey Kiefer was up there liking anti trans posts a few years ago that we, we caught that, we flagged that. It's, it's, you know, it's. And so I think the mindset is like, okay, we're casting people on these shows. They're from all different backgrounds. And really these shows are to show how different people from different backgrounds interact in many ways. And you know that. And like, and the byproduct of that is that, that some of these people like really problematic things. And I think they're like, okay, that's that. But, but I think with Gretchen though, it, it was really like, it was a lot of it. And I think that the volume of it is what has been so shocking. You know, it's just been, it's like a, it's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, it's also not just like Republican things. It's liking hateful, very far right things. Right. Extremist things. And I think also your point about a lot of these people, I mean, especially on Orange county, this is Orange county we're talking about. These are the women of Orange County. So a lot of them I think are like, well, don't come after me like shit, are they going to come through mine too? Especially you've got Emily up there. You think she doesn't have a lot of Trumpy shit going on over there. She was reposting that like all those Save the children, you know, QAnon posts, I mean, a few years ago too. So it's like they could all be caught. So I think they're probably doing like a. Okay, let's, let's have an emergency session here and just save us all from this. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

I think between Orange county and Orange county and Utah and New Jersey, Southern charm. I mean, obviously there's a lot of, you know, right, right wing, right leaning, you know, people on Bravo, McBee Dynasty. Hello.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but so it's. And the thing is that I don't think that either of us are offended by the mere presence of someone who is conservative or right wing. I mean, like, you know, it's like we're here to see people of different backgrounds. But I think it's the fact that Gretchen, she, she liked so many of these, as you said, far right wing things that were really hateful and are about, you know, you know, depriving people of their rights just to exist as a human and that. And I forgot what the rest I was gonna say, but I think you guys can know. I don't even have to explain why.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, there's a difference, there's a difference between having a disagreement with someone politically so it's not like saying, oh, fuck all Republicans, blah, blah, blah. It's not that. I mean, people are gonna have different. You're gonna meet people in life with different points of view. 100% fucking suck it up and be. You're still gonna have to interact with people. It's not that. These are far right, hateful, bigoted posts. And if people are saying, well, that's just. You're just disagreeing with me politically, it's like, oh, okay, so you're. That whole side now is completely racist and. And bigoted. I mean, okay, if you want to take that title, that's fine, but, yeah, I think it needs to be a distinction. It's not like we're not talking about tax policies here, you know?

[Ronnie Caram]

Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

So anyway, so now they're arguing about where these posts came from. So Shanna's saying, you said it came from your podcast. And Tamara's like, well, let me finish. And Gretchen says, no, it was just one Twitter feed. And Tamara says, okay, well, two years ago, it came through to Teddy because it was tweeted. So Gretchen's like, wait, two years ago? And she goes, well, I don't know. I can look up on my phone if you want the exact date that she retweeted it.

[Tamra Judge]

And she's like, no, but you said on the thing it was a year ago. Now you're saying two years ago.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, so you haven't seen the post either, Gretchen, it was posted in 2023, and it was a compilation of your post that went back years and years. Okay, so now they're trying to get her on the specific date Tamara first saw it together. And Gretchen's like, well, you were the.

[Tamra Judge]

Only person that knew anything.

[Ben Mandelker]

No. And she's like, I wasn't the only person. It's been all over Reddit. It's been all over the entire Internet.

[Ronnie Caram]

Right? And Gretchen's like, and Gina, I really.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Like you, but it really was frustrating to me because I had someone call me and say that you were. You and her were plotting and planning together.

[Heather Dubrow]

Oh, yeah, I know. And like, but you saw. You saw what? You saw, Gretchen. And the reality is she. She brought it up to me. I feel mad.

[Ronnie Caram]

She doesn't plot.

[Ben Mandelker]

And so Tamara, Gina, and Emily saying, oh, yeah, we never plot. Okay, then how do you explain having all of this information two weeks before you even brought it up? Isn't that a form of plotting?

[Heather Dubrow]

Well, let me ask you this, Tamara. Why, after you made up with her several times, did you bring it up at the end Tamara's like, well, when.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Did I bring it up? Andy?

[Heather Dubrow]

He's like, in Amsterdam.

[Gretchen Rossi]

No, I didn't. I brought it up the night after.

[Ronnie Caram]

Aaron saved it after me, which is true. Tamara. Tamara told Gina this after that, like, country whatever. Whatever that. That thing was that they did that. That event. And so she told Gina and Orange county. And then Gina just sat on it and decided to wait until the big trip, which is also pretty shitty of Gina. Let's also, you know, like, she's like.

[Heather Dubrow]

Oh, I felt bad. And this is like, whammy. I was like, really?

[Ronnie Caram]

So you waited until it was a group scene two weeks later, so. And also you waited until right after that they had made. Right after they made up. So now you're gonna destroy this friendship that. Not friendship, but, like, this fragile truce that you claim that you want so badly.

[Ben Mandelker]

Exactly.

[Tamra Judge]

But I don't plot.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Andy's like, okay, but you said you resolved everything with her. And then you two, pointing to Tamara and Gina had talked about bringing it up. And Heather's like, so why didn't you.

[Gina Kirschenheiter]

Tell Gina to squash it?

[Tamra Judge]

And Tamara's like, yeah, Gina, anytime I bring anything up, it's like, oh, God, here Tamara goes. Here she comes with some poison.

[Ben Mandelker]

And Emily's like, but you did bring it up. And I'm saying what doesn't make sense to me is that you've had this for a long time. That is true. That's a good point. But it's also a good point that you knew for two weeks too, Emily. You knew as well as Gina, and you also didn't do anything. This is like. I think it does. It does go to show that Tamara, you know, has just been sitting on this and waiting until she could use it to her advantage.

[Ronnie Caram]

This entire reunion. This is like that Spider man meme where they're all pointing at each other, all the Spider Man. They're all pointing like, but you. But you. But you.

[Heather Dubrow]

So Andy's like, okay, so you said you knew about it for two years and.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Yeah, well, I found about it two fucking years ago, and I never thought about it again until recently when you.

[Heather Dubrow]

Came on the show and camera's like.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Oh, no, that's bullshit. Yeah, you want to figure out how to weaponize it against me and harm me and hurt me. That's what you did. You used it against me.

[Heather Dubrow]

You used me like a hate tweets against me.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Tama's like, why did I bring.

[Heather Dubrow]

It up the first day then, Badge?

[Gretchen Rossi]

Cuz I don't know, Tamara.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I'll say why you didn't bring it up, which is because you didn't think you had to, that that was the nuclear option. And you're like, I'm not going to do the nuclear option on the first day. Right. Because we have a whole season, you know.

[Ben Mandelker]

Right. We need this for. We need a finale. But I also think production was like, we're not bringing this up, because everybody in production knew that this was going on. And I think they were like, we're bringing Gretchen back. We just want to bring her back for the old fun of fighting with Tamra, but we don't want to bring all this stuff onto. So don't do it. And now I think it makes them look all like assholes that they didn't bring it up, but they are kind of assholes for not bringing it up. Cause this is crazy.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, I don't think that it was even supposed to be. I don't think that Tamra's like, I'm gonna save this for the finale. I think that Tamra got to a breaking point because Tamra now has this narrative that Gretchen's been coming after her for 15 years, when the truth is, it was Tamara who was always going after Gretchen. But. But she was just. I think she was so fed up, and she just decided, you know what? I am doing the nuclear option. I don't care. But if. But if I do the nuclear option, people won. Really believe it. It won't have the same gravitas because I've used up all my credibility because I'm in this endless feud. So let me give it to some dumb, dumb to do it for me. Gina, get over here.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ronnie Caram]

Because Gina is the person who would walk into the Oval Office and be.

[Heather Dubrow]

Like, oh, my God, look at that nice red button. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I just sent off a bunch of nuclear weapons. I feel mad.

[Tamra Judge]

I feel bad.

[Ben Mandelker]

The colon.

[Tamra Judge]

It turns out the code was, I feel bad.

[Ben Mandelker]

All you have to do is enter that into the football. Sorry. So Gina's like, well, I think she.

[Tamra Judge]

Brought it up in retaliation.

[Ben Mandelker]

Tamara says, well, why is that changing.

[Tamra Judge]

That You're a homophobic bitch, bitch. Nah, I'm not, and you know it. I just went to a gay bar this year.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Yes, you are. You are so gross.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but then you. But. But when you say tied to Tamra, what does that mean, though? What does that mean? That these tweets were tied to Tamra?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, like she made it up. Is that what that means?

[Gretchen Rossi]

No, that's not what I Said, there's a Twitter feed that Tamara happened to have on her phone that night. And she was like, look at this. And that Twitter feed that. That was the only feed it was on. It has not been anywhere else but on your Twitter feed.

[Tamra Judge]

And she's like, gretchen, it's all over Village, bitch. It's all over village. She goes, oh, well, now it is. Cause you started putting it everywhere. No, no, that's a lie. You're a fucking lie. You're a fucking lie. You lie. She's like, do you know how many DMs that people have sent me that? You're the one that's out putting that into the press, girl.

[Ben Mandelker]

So now you have dms from Slate. So you're getting a lot of stuff from bloggers saying that Tamra's the one telling them, why are they communicating with you so much? Miss lady who never talks to bloggers. And she's like, do you know how.

[Tamra Judge]

Many people are saying that?

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, my God, can someone just buy this woman a Jeep, for Christ's sake?

[Gretchen Rossi]

I'd like to buy a consonant.

[Ronnie Caram]

She can't even do. She can't even do it right.

[Ben Mandelker]

She can't even Wheel of Fortune right.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's like, paying the wheel. It's like, you don't have to buy the consonants.

[Gretchen Rossi]

I'd like to. Anyway. She's like, I'd like to solve the puzzle.

[Ronnie Caram]

Trans people, we're gonna stop you right there. The first word is pants, not trans.

[Tamra Judge]

I would like to paint for G. Because that's the gay and the lgbtq whatever.

[Gretchen Rossi]

And.

[Tamra Judge]

And I support them. I would like to donate money for.

[Heather Dubrow]

A G. Can I say one more thing in Gretchen. To Gretchen? Because, like, I really want to say this to you. In hindsight, was this something that I felt I needed to bring up? Yeah, because it was something that was brought to me, and it was, like, a little disturbing to me. And I wish I had brought it up to you, not at, like, a dinner table. So I guess what. I guess what I'm trying to say is, is I feel. I don't know, it's like. It's not so much remorse. It's not so much like. It's not so much sadness. It's like. I guess you could just say, I feel me.

[Ben Mandelker]

So now not only are they going to let them let her off, they're going to apologize to her.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm sorry. I am. I embarrassed you.

[Ben Mandelker]

This isn't dark enough. I'm so sorry I brought up your hate posted dinner.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm sorry. That when you, you know, liked all these things that advocated for the removal of rights for a segment of the population, that I approached it in a way that made you feel uncomfortable. I apologize.

[Ben Mandelker]

Unbelievable. And Gina's like, yeah, I'm sorry for.

[Tamra Judge]

Doing that at dinner. Thank you. I appreciate it. Because I didn't think. I thought you and I had a good enough relationship that you could talk to me like. And if you knew, like a couple weeks or maybe a month before. I wish you'd brought to me because I feel so blindsided and ambushed. And I'm sorry for that. You know why? Because I feel glad. Just kidding. It's opposite. Stay. I feel bad.

[Gretchen Rossi]

Wait, did you mean glad?

[Heather Dubrow]

G L A D? I don't even know what that means.

[Ronnie Caram]

Hey, everyone, this is the end of part one of this recap for part two. Keep an eye on your podcast feed. It is coming up up in just a moment. Thanks so much for listening. Catch you on the second half. Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King. It's always a party on Allison Block.

[Ben Mandelker]

Our way is the Amber way.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's always automatic with Ashley Auto. Put your hands together for Carly Clap.

[Ben Mandelker]

Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt. We never miss her call. It's Diane call Big yay. It's Emily Gaultier.

[Ronnie Caram]

Erin McNicholas she don't miss no Tricolus Hava Nagila Webber. You'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go, we all go for Hugo Jamie, she has no less.

[Ben Mandelker]

Namey she's our kind of mess. It's Jennifer Messer Sipped some scotch with Jessica Trotch.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's our favorite streamer.

[Ben Mandelker]

Caroline Peacock, Kristen the Piston Anderson. Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey baby que sera sera Whatever will be will Lauren Silsby. She gets a name from us. It's Lindsey D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Lino. Fresh as a daisy. It's Maisie McHenry, we love her on the rocks It's Melissa Cox. Megan Berg. You can't have a burger without the Berg.

[Ronnie Caram]

This is living with Michelle. Vivian.

[Ben Mandelker]

I love Aya Olivia Williamson, she sure is swell. It's Raquel, yes we can. It's Savannah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Cast a spell with Shannon Spellman. Let's share with Sharon Eldridge.

[Ben Mandelker]

Darn skippy, it's Tippy. And our super premium sponsors make way for A.J.

[Ronnie Caram]

Lopez.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's VVIP it's Amanda V. Can't lose when you're with Amy Baldwin.

[Ronnie Caram]

Somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy MD.

[Ben Mandelker]

We'Re taking the gold with Brenda Silva.

[Ronnie Caram]

Let'S get real with Caitlyn1 put us.

[Ben Mandelker]

On a stretcher It's Charlotte Fletcher don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily sides who, what, why, where? And Gwen Pentland let's go into the.

[Ronnie Caram]

Woods with Guy Tubbs Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall Hail the cork master the master of the cork Jennifer Corcoran we got our wish It's Jen Plish she's not harsh She's Jill Hirsch My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo She's a.

[Ben Mandelker]

Total knockout It's Katie Manock we love.

[Ronnie Caram]

Him madly It's Kyle Pod Shadley in the study with a candlestick It's Leslie Peacock G It's Lisa H We're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron she's a wiz It's Liz Sarthy always killing.

[Ben Mandelker]

It It's Lola Al Kalani the incredible edible Matthew sisters she eases our woes it's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meatballs It's Rebecca Cloud maximum love.

[Ronnie Caram]

For Sandy Maximoska she's the queen bee.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's Sarah Lemke we cannot tell a lie It's Sarah tell of son Shannon.

[Ronnie Caram]

Out of a cannon Anthony, please don't stop it's solely and pop let's take off with Tamla playing we're obsessed all.

[Ben Mandelker]

With Tessa V. You'll always get the.

[Ronnie Caram]

Full story with Tori Parsons she ain't.

[Ben Mandelker]

No shrinking violet Cootard we love you guys. If you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondry. Com Survey.