#3134 My Secret Santa Part One With Reality Gays

Summary

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Watch What Crappens #3134 – My Secret Santa Part One (with Reality Gays)

Date: December 25, 2025
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam
Guests: Jake Anthony & Mattie (Reality Gays)

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Episode Overview

In this raucous crossover holiday episode, the hosts of Watch What Crappens and Reality Gays join forces to break down Netflix’s 2025 Christmas movie, My Secret Santa. True to form, the crew delivers wickedly funny, lovingly snarky, and deeply tangential commentary. While ostensibly a “movie recap,” the episode meanders through debates about low-budget holiday films, dubious Netflix metrics, questionable acting, personal holiday memories, tangents about landlord drama, and the existential crisis of quality control in Christmas cookies. This is part one of their deep, unserious dive.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Netflix's "Holiday Movie Machine" & the Why of This Episode

• Netflix Rankings Skepticism

  • The crew opens by pondering if My Secret Santa is really #1 as Netflix claims.

    “Although how real are those rankings? I don’t even know.” — Ronnie (01:45)

• Crossover Housekeeping

  • Watch What Crappens (Bravo and Housewives experts) meets Reality Gays (90 Day Fiancé specialists).

    “We’re just four friends who like to hang out... if you’re here just for the Christmas movie, go somewhere else.” — Mattie (11:58)

2. Holiday Movie Comparison—Standards Are... Low

• Improvement in Netflix Movies?

  • Ben notes My Secret Santa is “one of the best” in a sea of badness—because its storylines, though dumb, at least resolve.

    “Of the terrible Christmas movies we’ve watched... this MAY have been one of the best.” — Ben (02:26)

  • But don’t get too excited: it’s still “blandly okay, rather than entertainingly bad.” (Ben, 04:09)

• Bad Christmas Movie Hall of Fame

  • References to “Ladies of the 80s,” “Minty Village,” and “Hot Frosty” as previous low bars.

3. Acting & Casting: A Deep Dive into the Absurdities

• Alexandra Breckenridge's Underwhelming Turn

  • The crew pan her as lacking the comedic chops for a “female Santa.”

    “You needed a female Robin Williams, and she didn’t have it.” — Ronnie (06:37) “This movie would have been way funnier with Kate McKinnon as Santa.” — Jake (07:11)

• Awkward Chemistry: Mother-Daughter Hijinks

  • Ben describes recurring “herbal tea commercial” energy between Taylor and her daughter.

    "They had a lot of these cutesy moments...almost an herbal tea commercial." — Ben (09:07)

• Diana Maria Riva: The Breakout Star

  • The entire panel raves about her performance as Doralee, the landlord.

    “Diana Maria Riva. What a breakout star! Why is she not like in every movie?” — Ben (17:17 / 17:44) “She just was lonely at the end of the day. Just a lonely well.” — Jake (18:09)

4. Holiday Movie Tropes, Writing Failures, Semiotics

• Weak Character Backstories & World-Building

  • The lead’s lost punk past is anachronistic and confusing—her “screaming kittens” band seems like 1994, but her age pegs her for 2010.

    “I have a lot of questions about age here.” — Ronnie (41:43) “Her band is from 2010...what kind of band was she in?” — Ben (42:11)

  • Cookie Company Setup Quickly Abandoned

    “I assumed it’d be about this cookie company. But...she just needed a job to lose.” — Ben (51:03)

• Scriptwriting Tangents

  • Writers’ room jokes on fake names (“Carly Smails”) and IMDb stalking for background on who could be to blame.

    “Sounds like a 30 Rock name.” — Ben (27:17)

  • Canadian Productions

    “This whole thing is very Canadian. It stinks of Canada. Like maple syrup.” — Ronnie (28:15)

• Opening with False Whimsy

  • Ben on the movie’s shimmering “magical” credit sequence:

    “There’s the suggestion there’s going to be magic in this movie. And I just want to say right now, there’s no magic.” — Ben (37:54)

5. Tangents and Personal Anecdotes

• Santa/Bearded Men Fetishes

  • A delightfully unhinged segment on gay Santa fetishism—lampooning greeting cards, beard hygiene, and age/attraction.

    “I have a fetish of somebody being attracted to me...If it weren’t for weight loss drugs, I’d be fully in the Santa camp.” — Mattie (19:38)

• Landlord Stories

  • The character Doralee inspires stories of real-life annoying landlords and reappraising the “villain” as you age.

    “You start siding with the people that are supposed to be the villains. Like, you watch Rent and you’re like, they’re not paying their rent!” — Mattie (60:57)

• Brush with Sister, Sister

  • Jake (Reality Gays) drunkenly yelling “Twitch!” at Tia or Tamara Mowry at karaoke—

    “She turned around with fear in her eyes…her boyfriend immediately grabbed her and dragged her away.” — Jake (34:02)

6. Holiday Music Sidebar

• Netflix’s Budget Flex
  • Noting that the use of Kelly Clarkson and Ariana Grande’s “Santa, Can’t You Hear Me?” marks My Secret Santa as Netflix, not Hallmark, territory.

    “Hallmark’s not paying for that. The Food Network just is going to have, like, Paula Deen grunting into a wooden spoon." — Ben (34:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Netflix Rankings:

  “There is no proof. There is no Nielsen family. I don’t believe what they say.” — Mattie (01:51)

• On Diana Maria Riva:

  “She was giving a comedic performance that was nuanced and layered. I mean, every time she came on screen, I was so happy.” — Ben (17:44)

• On Questionable Writing:

  “I think you can do the formulas really smartly. Like, I still say that Lindsay Lohan movie, the first one we ever did, was probably the most successful because at least it kind of knew what it was.” — Ronnie (26:38)

• Re: Opening Credits No Magic:

  “There’s sort of the suggestion there’s going to be some sort of magic in this movie. And I just want to say right now, there’s no magic.” — Ben (37:53)

• Cookie Company’s Failure:

  “This is the beginning of Klotz Cookie Company. I preferred the story of Klotz Cookie Company...” — Mattie (40:20) “You could not afford somebody to do this poor girl’s roots.” — Mattie (40:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:45] – Can we trust the Netflix “#1” ranking?
• [02:26–04:09] – Assessing My Secret Santa versus the lowest points in holiday movie history
• [06:37–07:57] – Debating the lead’s comedic chops (or lack thereof) as Santa
• [09:07–10:31] – The awkward mother-daughter dynamic
• [17:17–18:06] – Diana Maria Riva praised as the episode’s MVP
• [19:38–20:26] – Santa fetishes, beard hygiene, and age-humor tangent
• [34:02] – Jake’s “Twitch!” story (Sister, Sister at karaoke)
• [37:54] – Ben calls out “fake magic” in the film’s opening
• [40:20–41:25] – Cookie company as a wasted plot device
• [60:57] – Siding with the landlord: “they’re not paying their rent”

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Flow & Tone

The episode is, as promised, a hilarious, sprawling, and at times delightfully chaotic hangout—with constant detours through personal anecdotes and inside jokes. The hosts’ banter launches from the low bar of Netflix Christmas movies into sharply observed pop culture riffs, gay specificity, nostalgia, and a half-serious, half-absurd film analysis.

For new listeners:
You don’t need to have seen My Secret Santa—the hosts summarize and paraphrase, but mostly you’ll find yourself laughing at the cultural critique, asides, and meta-commentary on the mechanics of holiday TV movies.

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Conclusion

My Secret Santa: Part One is more than a movie recap—it's the intersection of queer pop culture critique and holiday film takedown. Part discussion, part roast, and part therapy session about how low our holiday rom-com expectations have fallen, it’s a must-listen for Bravo fans, 90 Day Fiancé enthusiasts, and anyone who has opinions about bearded Santas, ambiguous Netflix metrics, and the sociology of cookie company management.

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Stay tuned for Part Two!

Transcript

[Mattie]

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[Ben]

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[Mattie]

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[Ben]

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[Mattie]

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[Ben]

Watch what happen. Watch what crappins. Who cares what happens when there's so much of crappin? Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens?

[Jake Anthony]

Y' all, get your sleigh bells ready and your creepy prosthetic creepy Santa mask because this is the annual gay crappens with reality gays. And watch what crappens with myself. Jake Anthony.

[Ronnie Karam]

Ben.

[Jake Anthony]

Hugh Mandecker. I never say your name.

[Mattie]

Right there.

[Ronnie Karam]

Hugh Mandel.

[Ben]

That's okay.

[Jake Anthony]

And Ronnie Karam. Y', all. This is what you've been waiting for. We are talking about Netflix's My Secret Santa. And it's no secret because it's number.

[Ronnie Karam]

One on the number one movie on Netflix. Although how real are those rankings? I don't even know.

[Mattie]

There's no proof. There is no Nielsen family. I don't believe what they say.

[Ronnie Karam]

I. I think it's a shadowy company. I love them, although I love them. I love you, Netflix. Just you're shadowy.

[Ben]

Things.

[Mattie]

Netflix can go itself because, hey, they char they charging me even more money to watch your damn channel and this is what they're gonna give me.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

They sponsored us this year, so I would have.

[Mattie]

Oh, well, they love you. I still hate your asses. Give us some more money. I'm still paying.

[Ronnie Karam]

You especially gave the challenge, which was very exciting this season.

[Ben]

This is our second Netflix holiday movie in a row. But that doesn't mean it's gotten any better. Although I do think that my Secret Santa. I think of the terrible Christmas movies we've watched over the past five years or so, this one may have been one of the best. I think in terms of time with that for you storyline, it's like a stupid ass movie, but like there were a Lot of characters and they all got like a small arc and like, it was sort of like they tied up all the loose ends in a way that, like other movies have kind of failed to. Of course, I think our low benchmark. Our low watermark or low whatever, I think is what the very diva Christmas, whatever that one was. Oh, ladies of the 80s.

[Mattie]

Of the 80s.

[Ronnie Karam]

That was such a ridiculous fever dream that didn't seem to have any reason to be there besides those women getting a check.

[Mattie]

Right. That's a bit of a reason. I don't care. On the sidewalk. I'll give her money. I mean, more of us, when we're.

[Jake Anthony]

Podcasting in 20 years, still follow Donna Mills. You know, in four years we're gonna. Or 40 years, we're gonna make a podcast Christmas movie and sell on patreon with us 4 queens just going about.

[Ronnie Karam]

GPT write the script.

[Ben]

But I will say. I will say that, like in this movie's, I guess, for lack of a better word, adept quality. Adeptitude for its quality. It was also one of my least favorites that we watched.

[Jake Anthony]

It is probably my least favorite.

[Ben]

Yeah. Because it had kind of like a bland okayness to it as opposed to the glaring plot holes of a hot Frosty. Or the. The one where they. The. The Minty Village. Where. The Pioneer Woman Village.

[Mattie]

Yes, Mint Village.

[Ronnie Karam]

Which erased people's memories when you went into it. Because that's not the way you would know. There's not an outside world with.

[Mattie]

What was the. The Food Network lady's name who worked at the.

[Ben]

Reed Drummond.

[Mattie]

Reed Drummond. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

And you drank the hot chocolate and then you all abandoned all. All of your earthly delights. You wanted to dorosty. Remember, Remember, hey, what's cancer? I sometimes still think about that.

[Jake Anthony]

I think him going. He was saying, though, with this movie, cancer. I never laughed out loud at this movie. It felt. Honestly, it felt a little joyless to me.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, I laughed out loud and. Bad dialogue. There was some bad dialogue that. Some of the worst dialogue that I've ever heard a non human person say. Most of it came from the father who was. I don't know where they found him.

[Ben]

There were definitely some choices in this movie. So, like, it definitely still was a bad movie. And there were definitely choices that were made that were really bad, but they weren't as glaringly terrible. I wanted actually to be so much more worse than it was. You know, I also remember in that Minty. It was the Food Network holiday that we're talking about in that. In that Food Network holiday. Movie that. This woman, she was a lady from the city. She was a career woman who's coming back home to this tiny town, and she goes to this. This house that this new family is living in, and she rings on the doorbell and she's like, hi, are your parents here? And she goes, no, unfortunately, they died in a car wreck two years ago. Moments like that.

[Ronnie Karam]

Someone. I agree. Someone wrote that this had. What you were mentioning, Ben, is everyone was kind of playing the middle because they had Alexandra Brenridge, who's done really serious stuff. Lucille Ball, she ain't.

[Jake Anthony]

Now. What.

[Ronnie Karam]

What is she?

[Mattie]

Balls.

[Ronnie Karam]

Who's newer comedic actress instead of. Instead of someone who's in his 70s. Or like, someone who does physical comedy. Well, you needed. You needed a female Robin Williams, and she didn't have it. Even though she does. She's done a lot of series. I remember her from Dirt. Remember?

[Mattie]

Remember. So I didn't remember her from that.

[Ronnie Karam]

She was like. She was like the ingenue of the show. And Courtney Cox was like the bitchy boss.

[Mattie]

Yeah, Courtney.

[Jake Anthony]

This movie would have been way Funnier with Kate McKinnon as Santa. You know, comedy.

[Mattie]

But it doesn't work. You should have played it. Meryl Streep. They should.

[Ben]

Kristen Wigwort, Glenn Close.

[Ronnie Karam]

I mean, what you said, Mattie, makes sense, but the problem is you have to have a heroine ingenue playing part. And a budget.

[Jake Anthony]

And a budget.

[Ronnie Karam]

But the other thing is, you had to get. So it doesn't really work. Someone like Alexandra Breckenridge does not play a comedic Santa. So that's why it was never really going to be funny.

[Mattie]

I'm not funny either. You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to play Santa, and then they have you playing Santa. It's like, ho, ho, ho. What do you want for Christmas? Like, I need. You need more.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, at one point, did you hear him go. Or she goes Jingle Bells, like, every single time. Like, when does. Everyone would see her? Oh, that's right. I'm stancing Jingle Bells Rudolph.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know what?

[Mattie]

I didn't.

[Ben]

I had no idea who Alexandra Breckenridge was. I sort of, like, vaguely recognized the name, but I. I really have not followed her career or anything.

[Mattie]

This movie.

[Ronnie Karam]

I. I only knew her from Dirt, but she's in this, like, Sad river or mystic river or Spirit.

[Ben]

Oh, she was a mystic. You know what? This.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's the show Lenny.

[Mattie]

And.

[Ben]

And we're in this now. We've got a movie.

[Ronnie Karam]

River. I said Sad River.

[Mattie]

Well, because it's the same thing. It's like Virgin River Suicide Suicides, you.

[Ronnie Karam]

Know, it was a show on Netflix. There was, like, five seasons. No one watched it, although I think people did. You let me tell you, hospitals watched it, not people.

[Ben]

Let me tell you something. First of all, one thing I noticed is that Alexandra. Alexandra Breckenridge and the. The woman who played her daughter, you did not look like she was 15. I'd like to add that I didn't.

[Jake Anthony]

Know what her real age is.

[Ben]

I have.

[Ronnie Karam]

Movie, of course.

[Ben]

She's 23. She's listed as 23, but I think we all know she's about 32. Madison McIsaac. They. The two of them would do a lot of. They would do a lot of like. Like. Like eyebrow lifted, smirking at each other, where they turn their head to the side and they go, yeah. Like, I know for people listening on the podcast, it's gonna be very hard to describe, but they, like, had a lot of these, like, cutesy moments where they were almost in an herbal tea commercial. Like, oh, really?

[Ronnie Karam]

Sleepy time.

[Ben]

Yeah, like, that's what they would do every scene. They're like. Like, mom, I didn't know you were in a band. Me in the band?

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes, you, Mom.

[Ben]

I was like, okay, you two.

[Ronnie Karam]

We also need to talk about the fact that the mother has kept her daughter completely in the dark of her entire life, of what happened before the daughter was born.

[Jake Anthony]

We still don't really know.

[Ben]

Who knows?

[Mattie]

I think that mothers should do that. I mean, mothers and fathers should do that. My mom doesn't tell me shit, you know, And I don't blame her.

[Jake Anthony]

I wish my mother would have done that when my parents got divorced instead of telling me everything.

[Mattie]

Yeah. I think that parents deserve, like, silence. The kid does not need to be baggage with your, you know, bad. That is true from the past, you know, Like, I know you got pregnant in the back of the rack, you know, where they rack the fucking pins at the bowling alley, but do I need to know that? I don't. You know how I do. Smelling of stale beer one night and just opened up. I don't need you to open up.

[Ronnie Karam]

Feed me.

[Mattie]

You're my mother.

[Ben]

Besides, you want to have, like, a little bit of a twist later on. Like, I. I had this Aunt Ruth who was really my mom's aunt, but she, you know, like, what do you call. You don't call them grand aunts. So Aunt Ruth, great aunt, she was this love Leah, Lovely, lovely sort of batty older lady. And every time. Every time was the holidays you know, see her at Russia Shan on Passover. She was always very flummoxed about David Dinkins. She's like, did you see what Dinkins did today? And she was like, I only eat potatoes because of sodium. I only eat potatoes is Aunt Ruth. That was her whole thing. She was just. I loved Aunt Ruth. She always sent a car. She was so lovely.

[Mattie]

But hating had sodium.

[Ronnie Karam]

Dinkins, now that's a name.

[Ben]

She's always like, Larry, because my dad's Larry. And she's like, larry, did you see what Dinkins did today, Larry? So she died, and we're, you know, going through her things, and it's like one photo after another of her with Sammy Davis Jr. Her with Jerry Lewis.

[Ronnie Karam]

She was fully in the Rat Pack. I was like, what? Aunt Ruth? She was in stogie and Sinatra's just, like, tweaking her boob. Yeah.

[Mattie]

Like some old vintage David Dinkins porn.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, I have a lot of David Dinkins with whole things.

[Ben]

You need nice withhold things. You get like a surprise for the family later.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, you really need to write a movie where, like, gay nephew goes back and look through his old Aunt Ruth and you find out that Sammy Davis Jr. Is her grandfather.

[Mattie]

Yes. You've got, like, a glass eye in there.

[Jake Anthony]

Yes.

[Mattie]

This was such a good find. Before we get started, I know we already have gotten started. I just want to tell people this is kind of about a Christmas movie, but not really. We're just for friends who like to hang out and it gets really dirty and we talk forever. So if you're here just for the Christmas movie, go somewhere else.

[Ronnie Karam]

Is anybody really here for the Christmas movie?

[Mattie]

I don't know.

[Jake Anthony]

I don't know. Sometimes.

[Ben]

And I guess we should do some book. We should do some housekeeping, which is that this is a crossover event. So if you know who we are, are. You may not know who they are. They're the Reality Gaze. And if you know who they are, you may not know who we are. And we are. Watch our crappings. We're two podcasts coming together. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Reality Gaze. Or is it the Reality Gaze at realitygate? You guys have an Instagram?

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, we are Reality Gaze podcast.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, we're podcast.

[Ben]

Podcast.

[Ronnie Karam]

I hear. I hear it's very on trends right now.

[Ben]

Huge.

[Mattie]

Huge, big one.

[Ronnie Karam]

Say that again.

[Ben]

Be sure to subscribe.

[Jake Anthony]

You can find you where I want to hear it.

[Ben]

Okay. You can find the reality gaze at RealityGays podcast and you can find us watch whatcrappens Be sure to follow both of our podcasts if you don't do it already. And with that in mind, I think we have to dive into this. I want to say one more.

[Mattie]

I want to say one more thing. No, I have one more thing before you're. One more thing.

[Ben]

No, I have one more.

[Mattie]

No, I have one more thing. Ben. I am exfoliating my lips today. So if anybody is wondering why I keep wiping my mouth and then putting on lip stuff, I'm trying to get very smooth lips while we do this. Okay, Ben, please.

[Ben]

And I. Wait, one more thing. I'm working on my posture, so if you see me slumping. And I'm also trying to work on my resting bitch face. I pulled. I looked. I was. So. I have a teleprompter, so when I look up, I have this sort of strange angle. And I notice that when I'm trying to have a pleasant look on my face. But sometimes when I'm reading the notes, I forget about my face and I scowl at the camera, and I'm in a very good mood. The scowl betrays my emotional state.

[Jake Anthony]

That's why I get Botox. So I don't scowl. I can't.

[Mattie]

No, I literally look at. Look at me mad right now.

[Ben]

This is. This is what my face looks like. Wait, wait, here, let me. This is what my face looks like when I'm not paying attention.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, you're about to, like a little.

[Mattie]

Bit of saliva just coming down.

[Ronnie Karam]

You're about to complain about the weather.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah.

[Ben]

It's very scary. Sorry. For people on. Who are. Who are just listening, who have no idea what's happening with my face. And maybe you're lucky. I want to say something. We're talked. Okay. We've talked about Alexandra Breen, Ridge.

[Jake Anthony]

Wait, no, I have one more thing.

[Mattie]

Before we talk about.

[Ronnie Karam]

Go ahead, go ahead.

[Jake Anthony]

For our listeners, because every once in a while, listeners are Come to us. And if you don't know Ben and Ronnie, you say, why don't you cover housewives? Because no one does it better than you two. And that's. So if you're housewives, like, they're historic. Yeah. So if you're into. If you're a. A Bravo holic back in the Bronx, literally, for the.

[Ronnie Karam]

For. For. For reality TV programming and podcasting.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, you were. You were doing this show like Lisa Rinna was like, four faces ago.

[Mattie]

Girl. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Well, yeah, for both of our audiences. You guys are the. You guys are specialized in 90 Day Fiance. We specialize in Bravo. So if, you know, did Y' all.

[Jake Anthony]

Do Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, too?

[Ben]

I think you did it when I.

[Mattie]

Did the first game, and we did not do the second because we were really busy and we considered doing this one. And God, I'm so glad we didn't, because I watched the whole thing. I just finished it. I loved it. But, God, what a dark, dark.

[Ronnie Karam]

It got real, y'.

[Mattie]

All.

[Ronnie Karam]

We covered every single thing. And did you guys get in trouble?

[Mattie]

Trouble, like, just. Just even having the discussions? I'm like, I don't know that two men need to be weighing in on some of this.

[Ronnie Karam]

It was. It was really tricky because. And we deferred a lot to when we had, you know, co hosts on who Were Women. But luckily, Demi made herself so ridiculously awful. It did all the work for us.

[Mattie]

Yeah, she really did. Oh, and her husband, Brett Brent, an old man. They were calling him Old Man Brett. That was so funny.

[Ronnie Karam]

And he got.

[Mattie]

What a prick.

[Jake Anthony]

The guy used to. Angie from House.

[Mattie]

So the good thing about that is Angie, his. His ex wife was on Housewives for a minute. She blew up her life too, but she was on Housewives for a minute. And she has a really messy current husband who fucked up her time on Housewives by getting too involved in all of this shit. And he started all of these fake accounts against the women and were coming after the women online under fake names and stuff. And so I love that she had two messy men right in a row.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Brett, with his new work, he looked like Ron Perlman from Beauty and the Beast. You know, he's lived in the sewers. And Linda Hamilton was like, I love.

[Ben]

No, he's disfigured. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Kind of like Cat.

[Ben]

It's a. It's a. It's an everlasting romance. Okay.

[Mattie]

Okay.

[Jake Anthony]

That was my one thing. We can start.

[Ben]

Thank you. Well, we've talked about. We've shot. We've shown a light on Alexandra Breckenridge. We've shown a light on.

[Mattie]

Well, we didn't mention she's Walking Dead. She's in Walking Dead, and she wasn't Walking Dead. Yeah. I don't remember her. And I watched most of Walking.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh.

[Mattie]

Because she had red hair. Maybe that's all.

[Ben]

You know what's great is the Walking Dead is also, I think, the note they gave everyone for their acting choices this episode. It went out for this movie. They're, like, robotic.

[Ronnie Karam]

Definitely.

[Ben]

But what I was gonna say, though, is that the real scam. I think the real. I think what I've been really trying to say for the past 24 hours. Ever since I saw this movie that's been on my mind. The headline here, Diana Maria Riva. What a breakout star.

[Ronnie Karam]

Where have you been? Where have you been? Diana Maria.

[Mattie]

Why is she not new?

[Ben]

Why is she not like in every movie? She was wonderful.

[Ronnie Karam]

She was like, in real Women have Curves or some new. Like.

[Ben]

Like, it was dialed in. She was. I mean, she was giving a comedic performance that was nuanced and layered. I mean, every time she came on screen, I was so happy. She was so good.

[Jake Anthony]

I did laugh. Yes, she did.

[Ronnie Karam]

She did. She just was lonely at the end of the day.

[Jake Anthony]

Just a lonely well.

[Mattie]

But it's also, of course we're gonna love her. It's like we've got three lonely whores here, and there's like, literally three of us on this show right now. We are the landlord down the hall. Who's gonn?

[Jake Anthony]

Your dad, Ben is the only person on this podcast that still believes in love.

[Ronnie Karam]

Not just dad, your grand. Your grandfather.

[Mattie]

It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin commercial.

[Jake Anthony]

Have y' all ever been and it's okay. This is a safe space for some gay men? It is. Have y' all ever had any type of like. Like Santa or bearded man fetish?

[Ronnie Karam]

I think Santa versus bearded fetish is very different. A white. When I worked at the gay bookstore, we had these dirty cards that was like burly Santa, but, like, some were like kind of like Tom of Finland Santa.

[Jake Anthony]

No.

[Mattie]

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Okay. But then there's the ones like straight up Santa with a big dick. It was always just weird.

[Mattie]

No, I've never had that fetish. I'm. I've always been taught to be very wary of older men offering me things.

[Ronnie Karam]

I never learned that, but yeah, they.

[Jake Anthony]

Come down the chimney. Yeah.

[Mattie]

Yeah. But I do have a fetish of somebody being attracted to me because I, you know, I'm 50 and I'm like. I come in and out of Santa. I mean, if it weren't for like, weight loss drugs, I'd be fully in the Santa camp.

[Jake Anthony]

Got it.

[Ronnie Karam]

So you want to be the Santa in that?

[Mattie]

I mean, not in a creepy, like, kid way, but like, you know, I hope like somebody with a Santa fetish. I mean, I could use those people. So if you know anybody, like, yeah.

[Jake Anthony]

If you have a 28 year old with a tight ass who's into Santa.

[Mattie]

Yeah, exactly. Like, so if you know anybody with that fetish, I'm not against them, but yeah, I've never really had A Santa. Santa. Because you know what? I really don't like beards. And I don't. I really hate white beards because I feel like it's just rude to everybody around you because you get shit in them. You get. Every time you drink a coffee, your little stain. It's like a dog, you know, it's like a. A white dog. And you can tell that they've been eating outside because it's all over their mouth.

[Ronnie Karam]

I just do have to say, when. When white dogs have stains all over them. I do say, can't you clean your dog like Malteses? I'm like, someone clean your dog's eyes. It bothers me.

[Mattie]

Oh, the eye boogers on. On dogs. Like, the eye booger stack on the dog really is just so wrong.

[Jake Anthony]

They have medicine.

[Ronnie Karam]

We've gone off the rails.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, you can take.

[Ronnie Karam]

Not dogs. Looks.

[Jake Anthony]

No, my dad. My dad. I remember when I was in Oklahoma taking care of my dad because he had two Malteses, Emmy and. Well, first of all, Tila and then Emmy, but Tila died. Tila. And then. No, he. Man, that's the names of the dog.

[Mattie]

Yeah, but you didn't have much going. I mean, that's right.

[Jake Anthony]

We were sitting in the hospital at MD Anderson. He was doing, like, some type of treatment, and he was sitting there, and I'm just like, you know, in the hospital as well and looking on my phone. And my dad goes, matthew, I said, yeah, Pop, go on there and look up and see what that stuff is called that you give them all teases so they don't get tears in their eyes. And I said, what are you talking about? I thought my dad was crazy. And there's this thing, I think it's called, like, no more tears. And it's like they stop the dogs from getting eye boogers.

[Mattie]

Oh, wow.

[Ben]

I have to say that I think you may have just given a monologue that would count as character development on any one of these Christmas movies. Why don't you celebrate Christmas anymore? The last time I saw my dad, we were sitting in the hospital room, and he says, look up that medicine that takes the tears out of a dog's eyes. And I did.

[Mattie]

I did.

[Ben]

I just haven't been able to celebrate ever since.

[Ronnie Karam]

That would have helped, actually. When. When they said, why don't you want to date? Well, I don't know. I've just kind of sworn off guys. Okay, so you're like mid-30s, maybe 40s. I have a problem with the age. All ages. Like, she got pregnant in high school, then there's this daughter. How old are you?

[Ben]

On some of these characters backstories. And the last piece of the last performance I really want to highlight because obviously Diana was the standout for me. She did excellent work. But also, like, let's not overlook Tia of. Yeah. And Tamara fame. She really, like, somehow she, like, didn't really have to do much. She barely had any lines. But, like, some of those scenes where she's at home alone, drinking a glass of wine, staring at a computer with, like, kind of rage in her eyes, I was like, I've met this girl before. Like, I've worked with her.

[Mattie]

I've been with a girl before. I mean, I really. I really related to the moments where she was trying to Google things but couldn't figure out the right terms to get the information. Because, I mean, she. There were so many scenes of her googling, and she just couldn't figure anything out. And I was like, that is so me. Like, I can't use AI. You know, a lot of people love it. I can't. I don't even know what to ask it. I just get flummoxed, you know?

[Ronnie Karam]

But talk about a character who had no want at all. Just blind ambition. That's what they gave her.

[Jake Anthony]

And she. Physical comedian at all.

[Mattie]

Were the.

[Ben]

The characters who had no wants at all were. Were the 30 people who showed up for this, like, strange Christmas concert that the hotel was throwing.

[Mattie]

Don't.

[Ronnie Karam]

Don't forget, they heckled. They heckled everyone.

[Mattie]

Well, yeah. Yeah, there was a heckler. There was like a Joe Rogan heckler over there.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Mattie]

And then.

[Jake Anthony]

Yes.

[Mattie]

It was also just a town that is so into Santa. I just thought that was so fun. Celebrity. They're like, oh, my God, Santa is going viral. The hotel Santa's going viral.

[Ronnie Karam]

And she went out.

[Ben]

Really good Santa experience. Everyone see that Santa, five stars on Yelp.

[Mattie]

They get a review. They're the. The local paper wrote to Santa at the hotel.

[Jake Anthony]

Ben is grow. Someone growing that you. You know, you're Jewish. And so growing up, did you think it was weird that children went and sat on a stranger's lap?

[Ben]

I don't think you. No, no. It's just sort of like part of like the Christmas lore, just something Christians do, you know.

[Ronnie Karam]

And fought. I did not want to sit on an old slap. Yeah, yeah. And now I would do it for. For a good $5,000.

[Mattie]

I did it. I just amounted a 20 on the spot. You're not gonna promise me some presents later? Money first, bitch.

[Jake Anthony]

I want it now.

[Ben]

Well, should we dive into this movie?

[Mattie]

Sorry. Let's talk about who is in this. We've talked about who's in it. Who's made this movie is what I want to know. Because I wrote down the name Howard Bronstein and Son. Okay? So I googled that, and the first thing that came up is a man and his son were found guilty on multiple charges. It looks like wire fraud for a signature signing a forgiveness application on a second PPP loan. So do you think that was them?

[Ronnie Karam]

This whole movie was just a tax shelter so they could get out of it?

[Mattie]

I think that's what it was. So then I looked up his real IMDb and I see some stuff here. 2023. The girl who Escaped. The Cara Robbins thing. Something called the Informant. The Brooke Ellison Story.

[Ben]

The Girl who Escaped.

[Ronnie Karam]

The Girl who Escaped.

[Mattie]

Oh, my God.

[Ben]

S. A title that just says.

[Mattie]

That's just on this.

[Jake Anthony]

No, not. Not actual. This person did not make Sinners.

[Mattie]

Ben, I've got a present for you. His previous movie last year was called Hanukkah on the Rocks.

[Ben]

I think my friend wrote that, actually. Hanukkah on the Rock. My friend, she writes like. She writes Christmas. She writes these movies.

[Mattie]

Oh, my God.

[Ben]

I think she wrote a Hanukkah. Hanukkah. Oh, no, she wrote one about the Kansas City.

[Mattie]

Julie, Thor and Wolf. Oh.

[Ben]

Oh, that's 100. Her.

[Mattie]

That's her. Yeah, she did. She wrote it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben]

She's Jewish, so she, like, she can. She gets some of the. Like, the. The Jewish holidays.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's a little Yiddish in there. And it was all.

[Ben]

Julie's wonderful. She is like. She's so great. You know, she's one of the. One of the first people I met out here in la. She lives in Connecticut now. She's very. She. She just. She found her lane and she just does these movies. She used to write on Everybody Loves Raymond. I mean, she's a real blessing. And that's why I'm like. Like, we'll never do any one of her movies. Because I don't want to ever have to tear apart one of her movies, because I know her. But, you know, I'm happy that she's doing well with this.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think there's a formula, though. I think you can do this. You can do the formulas really smartly. Like, I still say that Lindsay Lohan movie, the first one we ever did, was probably the most successful because at least it kind of knew what it was and it wasn't. And it was really digging into that. Speaking of. I just Wanted to say that movie was written by Ron Oliver, who also co wrote this movie.

[Mattie]

Okay, well, there you go.

[Ben]

Now we understand why this one was so good.

[Ronnie Karam]

And also someone named Carly Smails, which again sounds like a 30 Rock name.

[Ben]

Sounds like a someone of Norwegian descent.

[Jake Anthony]

That's a fail of a parent because that name never is going to sound adult.

[Ronnie Karam]

Carly Smales at your service.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, no, you're never gonna sound like a 40 year old woman with that name.

[Mattie]

I'd like to introduce you to my daughter, Pookie. Snooky Tinker Town.

[Jake Anthony]

Now Esquire.

[Ben]

Actually my, my. My favorite credit that I saw in the opening credits of this TV of this movie was in the middle of all these names. And I have to say the line producer really stood out to me. I remember when, when, when their name showed up, I was like, excuse me. Me, their name was Gil Gill. G I L L E S Gilles La Plant.

[Mattie]

Please don't forget to water me.

[Ronnie Karam]

This whole thing is very Canadian. It stinks of Canada. Like the whole, the whole movie does. Like maple syrup.

[Ben]

Yeah, like maple.

[Ronnie Karam]

Maple syrup all over it.

[Mattie]

Be nice to go now. We're all going to be asking for citizenship soon.

[Jake Anthony]

Don't get, don't have Caitlyn. Stop doing our social media filmed in it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like it was filmed in like Kiln Kill Map or something like that. Or one of our listeners who's from.

[Ben]

There, they just, they love getting lost there. They're like.

[Mattie]

This was British Columbia and Sun Peak. I think there is a place called Sun Peak that they filmed this same.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So I have two observations. First of all, yes, they were clearly filming on location because that was not CGI breath. And this movie, the entire movie, anytime they went outside, there were full.

[Ronnie Karam]

This was, this was freezing.

[Mattie]

Didn't it make you guys. Oh my God, like if ever I have breath that is questionable that I know. Like I've just had coffee or whatever. I'm like, well, just not, you know, talk right in someone's face. Like to see how breath travels that far out of you and into someone's base. It was just. I don't want to talk anymore around. I don't want to ever speak in public again after seeing everything coming out of these people's mouths.

[Jake Anthony]

They should have just called us My secret Covid.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, it was arctic by. By the way, before I have one more thing before we have to get into this. When the title is called My Secret Santa and every time I see the phrase my secret something I think of when I was looking in My mother's drawers when in her room. And there was a book called My Secret Garden. And it was this book of erotica. And I of course. Erotica for women by Nancy Friday. And I obsessively read it when I was.

[Mattie]

I bet you did. That is the creepiest story I've ever heard. I can just imagine you standing there touching yourself at your mother's drawer, reading.

[Ronnie Karam]

Reading a book out of my mother's probably sock drawer.

[Ben]

Oh, my Secret Garden.

[Mattie]

She's like, wait a minute. Socks laid out differently in here. Wow.

[Ronnie Karam]

He touched his throbbing member. It was. It's all like story.

[Ben]

It's all. I want to read it.

[Ronnie Karam]

It was it's peak 1980s ladies erotica.

[Mattie]

And it's like Friday, like every day.

[Ronnie Karam]

Nancy Friday.

[Mattie]

That's the sexiest name you can have. Friday.

[Jake Anthony]

That now that's a lot better than Carly Schnails did now. Well, Jake has a connection to. Well, Tia or Tamara. We're not sure, but Jake does have a connection to one.

[Ronnie Karam]

I. I had my birthday party once at Boardwalk 11. This karaoke bar in. In kind of palms.

[Jake Anthony]

West LA is Motor National.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. You know the motor which goes like every direction of the. Of the compass. It's like west, then you're north. Then like, how is this National Boulevard? Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

West LA is weird.

[Ben]

Well, Culver City is specifically. Is just a disaster.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah. So I had my birthday and of course, as you do, you drink some and you may drink to excess. And Tia or Tamara? I'm really not sure. I think it was Tamara Mowry. She's the one who's loony these days.

[Jake Anthony]

You don't know. You have no idea. Don't even act like you know.

[Ben]

I don't think that she has. I don't think so. I don't think she doesn't.

[Ronnie Karam]

I thought one of them went loony.

[Jake Anthony]

No, I don't think so.

[Ben]

I don't think so.

[Ronnie Karam]

One of them was only thinking of.

[Ben]

The girl from Saved by the Bell.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, maybe. No, no.

[Jake Anthony]

Lisa Voorhees.

[Ronnie Karam]

Lark Voorhees.

[Jake Anthony]

Lark Voorhees. Yes. Sorry. We can.

[Ben]

Cameron Manheim.

[Mattie]

When in doubt, the answer is Cameron Manheim or Park Overall.

[Ben]

Remember Colin Taylor?

[Ronnie Karam]

We have dropped Park Overall. Our listeners have been telling us we made a Park Overall reference. You guys made it literally the next day.

[Ben]

Really?

[Ronnie Karam]

She's always on.

[Mattie]

She's like a willingness.

[Jake Anthony]

That's what Jake and Jake. Yeah.

[Ben]

Wait, so what happened? So one of the sister sisters. Was that your birthday party?

[Ronnie Karam]

No. Kind of.

[Jake Anthony]

Okay, I'm gonna Finish telling this story.

[Ronnie Karam]

No, no, no. This is kind of. She was there, like, with, like, a competing birthday party, I think, and Twin.

[Ben]

Birthday party, if you will.

[Ronnie Karam]

I. Exactly. I saw her and I was like, oh, my God, that's one of the Maoris.

[Jake Anthony]

That's. This is when Jake just moved to la.

[Ronnie Karam]

So he's been here maybe two months. No, I've been here like six.

[Jake Anthony]

He was still a big star fucker, like, and got really enamored by any celebrity.

[Ronnie Karam]

But it's that level of stars. Like, it's like Tia and Tamara, like, all the big ones. I would see. I wouldn't. I would. I wouldn't even talk to them, but I would get really excited by, like.

[Ben]

Like, by like a Diana Maria Riva.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes.

[Jake Anthony]

Or like time in this karaoke bar. He's getting drunker and he can't stop obsessing, watching what Tia or Tamara is doing.

[Ronnie Karam]

And I say. And I say, I do remember. Do you remember Twitch's their movie where they teen witches, but it was called Twitches.

[Jake Anthony]

And everybody was like, no, because we're not gay. We didn't watch that.

[Ronnie Karam]

And. And so finally she was by the end of the night, and I just. I was staggering out of the. The bar and so was she. And I finally was in a crosswalk.

[Jake Anthony]

No, she was not drunk because I was not drunk. And I remember walking right beside you. I'm gonna continue this story.

[Ronnie Karam]

I don't remember it that way. And I screamed, twitch. Twitch.

[Jake Anthony]

You did scream drunkenly. Twitch. At her. And she turned around with fear in her eyes while Jake ran up to her in the middle of the crosswalk, held her by her shoulders and said, I love your work.

[Ronnie Karam]

I told her I loved her work.

[Mattie]

What'd she say?

[Ronnie Karam]

I screamed, twitch at her. She's like, thank you so much.

[Jake Anthony]

Thank you. And her hot boyfriend, whatever, immediately grabbed her arm and drug her away.

[Mattie]

Oh, wow.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's a good thing her brother Taj Moi wasn't there.

[Jake Anthony]

He's hot now. Anyway. Now we can start.

[Ronnie Karam]

Now we can start. It's only 35 minutes in.

[Mattie]

It's pretty. Wow.

[Ben]

Well, that's great context. That's great context to power us into this, into this future film.

[Jake Anthony]

You know, one thing about this Kelly Clarkson song.

[Ben]

Oh, I was going to say this is how you can tell it's a Netflix Christmas movie because the opening music is actually a licensed, you know, Kelly Clarkson Ariana Grande duet. And, like, Hallmark's not paying for that. And definitely Food Network is not. Food Network just is going to have like. Like you know, Paula Deen grunting into a wooden spoon on.

[Mattie]

Yeah.

[Jake Anthony]

Voice.

[Ben]

Voice memo under it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Dress up in those suits.

[Mattie]

Yeah. And not paying her because she's had controversy. They're like, you took a pay cut, remember? Just do it, Paula. Just do it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Keep the sleigh rides, blah, blah.

[Mattie]

How many times I gotta say sorry? So who. Who's singing the duet in this?

[Ronnie Karam]

It's Kelly Clarkson and Ariana Grande. It's Ariana Grande.

[Ben]

No, it's because I Shazammed it. I Shazam it. I was like, this is sort of good.

[Ronnie Karam]

And I was like, it sounds Christmas song, but it's actually. It's the. The problem is there was like, after.

[Mattie]

With.

[Ronnie Karam]

With Mariah Carey's ubiquitous song. Everyone tries to make that song again.

[Mattie]

Never heard of it.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's the same exact. I'm gonna get music nerd for you really quickly. It's the same exact harmonic progression as.

[Mattie]

They all are if you listen. All the exact same.

[Ronnie Karam]

So frustrating.

[Ben]

This one. This one is called Santa, can't you hear me? Which is a bit needy. I think of these two ladies.

[Mattie]

In heaven and you don't belt. But I do like that. I do love that song. Santa Baby. That's a great Ariana Grande song. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's also kind of sexual.

[Mattie]

Yeah, but they play.

[Ben]

You know, I also like.

[Mattie]

Yeah, I wish they had that one.

[Ben]

You know which one I like? That's very similar. Instead of not. Not Santa baby. I'm also into Baby baby. You know, Amy Grant.

[Ronnie Karam]

I never.

[Mattie]

Should die.

[Ronnie Karam]

See? Okay, look, it is so weird. He was raised Catholic, but he knows all these contemporary Christian songs because all his friends were like, like big evangelicals.

[Jake Anthony]

No, all my girlfriends.

[Mattie]

I thought you were I. Christian. Christian. I didn't know you were a Catholic Christian.

[Jake Anthony]

Oh, I was raised Catholic. I thought about becoming a priest, and then two months later, I. My ra.

[Mattie]

Adam. Wow.

[Ronnie Karam]

That had. That had a rough ending.

[Jake Anthony]

It. You know.

[Ben]

It did.

[Jake Anthony]

Literally.

[Mattie]

Yeah.

[Jake Anthony]

I didn't know what lube was then. It was rough.

[Ben]

God bless it.

[Ronnie Karam]

Meanwhile, can we talk?

[Jake Anthony]

Where do we go from there?

[Ronnie Karam]

She's not. Not so her job class.

[Mattie]

We, we, we, we.

[Ben]

I can't even get to her job yet. I'm so pleased. Something else.

[Ronnie Karam]

Go ahead.

[Ben]

So we have this song that's playing. It's definitely Netflix signaling. And we're seeing, you know, sort of generic small town winter everything. And as the credits roll, there's this, like, shimmering Tinkerbell effect that swirls around everywhere. That's like, before, like, Howard Bronstein's name shows up. It's like, tinkle, tinkle. There's sort of like the suggestion that there is going to be some sort of magic in this movie. And I just want to say right now, there's no magic.

[Mattie]

No magic.

[Ben]

There's nothing magical happens.

[Ronnie Karam]

But how?

[Mattie]

You guys, this was directed by somebody named Mike Roll, and he's directed when the one calls the heart Falling Together, lots of. Lots of huge ones. My favorite title on here is from 2023, and it's called Married by Mistake.

[Ronnie Karam]

Oh, been there.

[Ben]

I. I loved you know what. And actually, you know what's also funny? He also directed tar. So this is a real great show of versatility and range.

[Ronnie Karam]

There was lesbian intensity in this film.

[Mattie]

That was a good movie. I was kind of on her side until I was like, I just couldn't anymore. I was like, surely she's innocent. She wasn't. Spoiler alert. Okay, so then we go to a cookie company called the Clots Cookie Company. Who's buying. Who's buying something from somebody named Klotz? I'm not buying food products from you. I'm trying to keep my heart going. But the Klotz cookie Company. These are the most basic ass Christmas cookies I've ever seen.

[Jake Anthony]

They're terrible.

[Ben]

I know.

[Ronnie Karam]

Go. So a couple of questions about the business model here. Do they do cookies all year round, or is this some type of seasonal business?

[Mattie]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And regional business.

[Mattie]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yes.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

So we're talking this place operates maybe three to four months a year. What do they make? Like, be. What do they make the rest of the time?

[Ben]

Clots. I mean, it's seasonal and regional. It's a popup, basically.

[Jake Anthony]

And.

[Ben]

Clots, you know, it's like.

[Ronnie Karam]

Like a Jewish bakery.

[Ben]

I know. It's like, you know. Well, there are. There. Is that, like, San Francisco ice cream sandwich. What's it called?

[Ronnie Karam]

Uts.

[Ben]

No. Yes, It's.

[Ronnie Karam]

There is also. It's. UTS is the one who makes. And it's. It. Yeah.

[Ben]

Wait, UTS is the potato chip, right?

[Ronnie Karam]

Us is the pet chip. You're right.

[Ben]

The point is there is a story tradition of. Of delicious snacks that end with, like, tz. And that's why we have Klotz cookie Company. But yeah, I agree. They have to work on their branding because Klotz just does not sound good. And by the way, I would also like to say I was pretty invested in this Klotz cookie company from the beginning, and we never see it again. Like, this is the beginning of Hot's cookie Company.

[Mattie]

I preferred the story of Klotz Cookie Company because. And I also really liked her because she was really killing the game.

[Ben]

Here comes one right now.

[Mattie]

So we meet our lead actress who. Listen, I know Taylor.

[Ben]

This is Taylor.

[Mattie]

We're talking about how much budget you guys have. You could afford Ariana Grande. You could not afford somebody to do this poor girl's roots. I mean, the girls from a Christmas movie on Netflix. So TVs are bigger now.

[Ben]

I think that was intentional.

[Mattie]

No, it was not.

[Ronnie Karam]

It made her look.

[Ben]

I think it was because she used to be in a band. And so there's like, sort of like.

[Mattie]

A grungy 90s look because they were still like, blonde. Like, they weren't like roots, unwashed hair. If they had said we wanted to look and have roots, that would have been one thing. Because it would have been. It would have been visible in a way that you got it for the character. This was just like. They didn't send her in. You know, I felt for her.

[Ben]

Yeah, she just. I definitely noticed that as well. I was like, this hair is doing something. But I just sort of assumed it was part of her post grunge, you know, Persona.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah, but she doesn't. The thing is, she doesn't have. It seems like she was. Was a punk singer, but there's nothing about her that feels punk at.

[Ben]

Nothing. Nothing. And like, if. If she, like. Well, she. Okay. Her kid is also. What's funny is that, like, I have.

[Ronnie Karam]

A lot of questions about age here.

[Ben]

Yeah, her kid is 15. The child is 15.

[Mattie]

I learned not to ask. I just roll with whatever you tell me.

[Ronnie Karam]

Gave up.

[Ben]

She gave up her pop punk career when she went. When her Child College 15 years ago. So that means that she was in a band around 2010. So I'm like. I'm trying to like, figure out what kind of was she in the Veronicas, like, where.

[Ronnie Karam]

Where.

[Ben]

What kind of band was. Was she in in 2010?

[Ronnie Karam]

The illustration that they had, it looked like something from earlier.

[Ben]

It looked like it was from 1990s 94. The art would actually make her closer to being like 55 years.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's what I'm saying. Something was. And. And when he said, that's you on the court, I'm like, it's an illustration. Someone drew her. You can't tell that's her just for.

[Ben]

Like, Linda Perry is. Linda Perry is 60 years old. And you know, of course, from four non blondes.

[Mattie]

Yes.

[Ben]

So like, that's kind of like the vibe they're giving and the way when we. When we meet this guy, the Way he talks about her on you, like this was like a change my life. I was like, her, you made me.

[Ronnie Karam]

Want to play guitar.

[Ben]

36 years old when her band was out, that.

[Mattie]

That was a thing. Like he was like a predator or something, like going. Cuz she was only like a local band and he was just like following around this high school band or something. It was weird. Yeah.

[Jake Anthony]

I mean, he's no Aaron oconnell, but.

[Mattie]

Now he really is not.

[Ronnie Karam]

But I, I think he's a better actor than all because he's been in tons of stuff.

[Jake Anthony]

I thought he was the best actor of the thing, besides sides.

[Ben]

Thank you, Diana.

[Mattie]

You know what? I didn't believe his hair.

[Ben]

Never loved this actor.

[Mattie]

I didn't believe his rug. That rug was disturbing. It was a disturbing r. He's.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's been, it's been a. It's been on and off. He's been around. He was on like the black. The Black List. Is that the show? Yeah, the Blacklist, New Amsterdam. He's been.

[Jake Anthony]

I had a lot of bronzer on at first.

[Ronnie Karam]

I think he. I used to think he was so hot. And I will say, when he was in that towel, I enjoyed it.

[Mattie]

He's hot, but he's very factory. You know, he's. He. He's just very smarmy. But he is, he is very cute.

[Ronnie Karam]

A lot of character things we should talk about with him, but we'll get there.

[Mattie]

Right now we're concentrating on this. There's a lady, she was in a band in 1992 and now she's 30 something and it's 50 years later and somehow she's in a cookie company.

[Ben]

And also she's quality control.

[Mattie]

Yes.

[Jake Anthony]

A small cookie company for people listening. By the way, I, I'm. We're only on the fourth sentence that I wrote.

[Ben]

Oh, love that.

[Jake Anthony]

So just buckle up.

[Mattie]

I've already got 10 pages into this. So we are, we're with her. She was a punk girl, but now she's like a kooky Karen. And she's the manager who walks around. She's like, that cookie is not good enough.

[Ben]

That Santa Claus.

[Ronnie Karam]

Everyone hates her. Yeah.

[Mattie]

I was like, whoa, everyone has to root for a cookie Karen.

[Ben]

No, also like, she's like, she has standards and she's like, we're not putting out a shitty looking Santa Claus.

[Mattie]

Santa was so in this. That Santa was fine. It was.

[Jake Anthony]

That's the problem, Ronnie. It was fine. It wasn't spectacular.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, yeah, we're telegraphing this Santa thing like this Santa should be good we're telegraphing the fact that she knows about Santas.

[Mattie]

Yes.

[Ben]

Yeah. Well, what happens is. So. So right now, what we are establishing is that this character is ornery and is persnickety difficult and has. Anna's Has. Is. Is very detail oriented to a fault and has no joy and doesn't understand life. And that's why we will see her act in this way for the rest of the movie.

[Mattie]

Just kidding.

[Ronnie Karam]

None of that.

[Mattie]

I know. They were like, okay, here's our lead character. She just called the police on a minority in the neighborhood for no reason. You're like, okay, I guess we're gonna watch A Karen Christmas. And then after, she's like, totally nice. I didn't get it.

[Ronnie Karam]

It. I thought they were gonna change her character. Like, Christmas. It was like Mrs. Scrooge or something. Like Vanessa Williams limbs when she learns the.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, that's a good.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I think that they try to. Later on jumping ahead. Like, I think they try to show that, like, she's a joyless person and she can't even enjoy, like, whimsical things, whatever. But, like, what I got from it was like, this is someone who's actually, like, scrutinizes things very carefully. And she's like a difficult manager. But I'm like, also, she doesn't seem to be able to hold a job. And also, since she can't hold a job and she's taking all these odd jobs, how did she wind up in a management position?

[Jake Anthony]

If it's because that's what I was. You don't get just. You have to be an experienced baker to be a manager of a bakery. So I thought. So we're just abandoning probably the years of baking school and, like, working at bakeries for years and just going.

[Ronnie Karam]

It.

[Ben]

Yeah, I.

[Ronnie Karam]

And also, she dropped out of college, so there's no degree.

[Ben]

And who's cooking?

[Mattie]

Okay.

[Jake Anthony]

Not everyone has to go to college, Jake.

[Ronnie Karam]

Wow. No, I'm saying.

[Ben]

I'm saying, unfortunately, it looks like her dreams of being a Northwestern grad have gone down the bike.

[Mattie]

Sorry, can't be our cookie manager.

[Ben]

Wow.

[Mattie]

Can't be Cookie quality. I recognize a lazy eye on a Santa. You didn't go to college?

[Ben]

Wow. I guess. You know, last time I checked, all those other Stanford graduates were doing pretty well with their cookies.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's.

[Ben]

But the.

[Ronnie Karam]

The issue here is she's. She's, like, lecturing her employees, or they're not really her employees. It seems like somehow above them.

[Jake Anthony]

Yes, yes.

[Ronnie Karam]

And. And her job is to go behind every other baker and check their work.

[Ben]

Okay. I mean, I think that like you're like, you need equal if you're doing at the Klotz company. You need to have quality control. And like, the implication is that this is something that she has expertise in that she's worked her way to this position and she's very demanding and she's had to make a lot of sacrifices along the way, which is what has, you know, usually in the way in the world of these movies. That's why she has a cold, hard heart that she can't find joy at Christmas time because she had to work so hard to get to this position. But it turns out what the implication is later on is that she just somehow got this position. She's poor and like, she got it and was like, I'm gonna take it very seriously and I'm gonna be a bitch to everyone who's frosting cookies right now, but it has nothing to do with how I am at home.

[Mattie]

Yeah. She's also like, I, I get. And, and they did play this off in the movie that she's just severely depressed and stuff. But she's like projecting a lot of her own onto the cookies because she's like, this Santa is not good enough. I mean, he's clearly depressed. It's like, okay, you know, like, don't, don't put this on the Santa. Like, I don't need to eat your failure. You know, just. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

I.

[Mattie]

The cookie and send it out.

[Ronnie Karam]

Can we talk about the fact that there are multiple Christmas trees in this kitchen? There's like a k. A Christmas tree over here. There's like one over here. And there's like decorations everywhere. Just. There's something about that. Beginnings to code. It seems to be a sanitation issue. I would think so, but I feel they're trying in the first 10 minutes of a movie of Christmas movie. They try to show. There's so much decoration, there's so much reminder. It's Christmas, everybody. To make sure we know that.

[Jake Anthony]

As you forget. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Really?

[Ben]

They're also like, like, and they're also. So, so this. The supervisor comes over and he's like, excuse me, Ms. Jacobson, can I, can I speak with you, please? Okay. So he pulls her, he pulls her over and he's basically like, look, unfortunately, like, you know, cookie demand is at an all time low because too many people.

[Ronnie Karam]

Favorite sentences of dialogue. Yeah.

[Ben]

Too many people are cooking store bought or making cookies at home. I'm like, no, your cookies are shit. Actually. That's what.

[Ronnie Karam]

Exactly.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Mattie]

You know What?

[Ben]

I mean arifs, do you think, do.

[Jake Anthony]

You think the fact that people would.

[Ronnie Karam]

People would stop like buying portos if, if people started making cookies at home because, because Porto is good.

[Ben]

So I think we all know this was just an excuse. There's an excuse for the supervisor to fire Taylor because they're like, she's miserable cuz no one likes her. Seeing things in these cookies that do not exist. Reject her own issues from her failed crappy band and we don't like her around anymore.

[Mattie]

And she said no, this was like the retaliation. I did not like this guy.

[Ronnie Karam]

That's life. That's life right there.

[Mattie]

It is. And I didn't like him at all. And she got like zero justice. Like she didn't do anything wrong. He's like, hey, guess what? The cookie economy has changed now.

[Ben]

Take it. Okay.

[Mattie]

And if you don't like it, thanks Obama. Okay. Say it on your way out, you dumb slut. Like this guy. I didn't believe him. This guy was a harasser. If I've ever seen line and all caked Christmas.

[Ronnie Karam]

If, if this is so seasonal. There's no other time, honey, you had to go and.

[Ben]

Yeah, I, I, yeah, that was, that was, that seemed like a not a smart time to fire someone.

[Mattie]

Now they have a bunch of lumpy ass like lopsided sad Santas going out there.

[Ben]

Yeah, fire the frosters. By the way, like you're making cuts. Fire the frosters. Because you need like you don't fire management first and then just.

[Mattie]

America.

[Ben]

If you want to ruin someone's Christmas, go for the lowest level position.

[Ronnie Karam]

Just a quick question, there was. This is more about like how the stakes are just the flimsiest stakes in the world for a movie because she loses her job. Just something to remember later. And this whole thing is going to be about snowboarding later.

[Ben]

And yes, well, and she also can't find a job, which is funny because you know, the original name of this movie is the Town with Door Dash. So she wasn't able to find a position.

[Ronnie Karam]

Unfortunately, Doordash forgot town.

[Jake Anthony]

The dreaded Doordash.

[Ben]

So I, I assume that this initially I assumed, okay, it's gonna be about like this cookie company is like a family cookie company. They gotta say the cookie company. And it has nothing to do with this cookie company. This is the one thing that never really. They come back to just CL's cookies. They don't even reference them. They're not like we just got some clots as cookies. It's not like, like she doesn't Go and make a delivery of cookies back to them to help them out to save the company. Like, it's nothing. Like, that's just she. It's just she needed to have a job and she needed to lose her job. She needs to be in financial straits.

[Mattie]

I will say that this guy walks like he has a butt plug in. Did you guys notice how he was walking?

[Ben]

Like, what did they do?

[Mattie]

There was a lot of gay stuff in this movie. Like, they had the boss with the butt plug. They had the guys that in the stall in the end. They had the gay brother at six a lot. Yeah, well, yeah, there were more.

[Ronnie Karam]

There were more. Oh, he's definitely gay.

[Jake Anthony]

No, that was his partner.

[Ronnie Karam]

Partner.

[Jake Anthony]

Although his partner was about to cheat on him when he followed those two hot snowboarders.

[Ronnie Karam]

But that wasn't it. Do you. I think I. That was too. It was. He heard Stephen King. You missed that.

[Ben]

He's a big Stephen King fan. Remember, he loves.

[Ronnie Karam]

He's a horror person.

[Mattie]

Oh, I didn't get that either.

[Jake Anthony]

How could I have missed that?

[Ronnie Karam]

I know. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I. I thought what you did, because I said, is he going after those two snowblowers? But it was that he heard Stephen King's name.

[Jake Anthony]

I thought, wow, Netflix is supporting open relationships.

[Ronnie Karam]

Good for them. No, I. I immediately. I had to correct that too. Yeah.

[Ben]

So she gets fired, which means she has to crawl into her old blue van.

[Mattie]

Oh, boy.

[Ben]

Boy, that, like, why does she have least believable things?

[Jake Anthony]

How did she get this fan, y'?

[Ronnie Karam]

All? How she explained where.

[Jake Anthony]

Why the van?

[Ben]

Like an anthropology. Her house is an anthropology. Everything she wears is a soft, you know, sweater and.

[Mattie]

Yeah, well, the van.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Mattie]

Really cute. I mean, I know it looked junkie, but it was actually super cute for, like, hashtag van life. Because it, like, had a full interior of like. Like a living big. Yeah, like she. I mean, this. And this is a problem with this character. Like, she's ready to be homeless from the very beginning. She's driving around in a van life van, and it's like, you need to aim higher. You know what I mean?

[Jake Anthony]

So what was this the van? And they should have. Was this the van from when they were the screaming Kittens and this was their band van?

[Mattie]

Oh, maybe.

[Ben]

I think that's the implication.

[Ronnie Karam]

Would have been really nice to hear.

[Mattie]

Yeah, that would have been nice, like.

[Jake Anthony]

If we had, like, screamy kittens kind of like on the side. But it's like, oh, that all in.

[Ronnie Karam]

All, craft so much.

[Ben]

That's what I. I assume is her old van, her old band's van. But the thing is, again, her band is from like 2010 and like bands and like, like teenage girl bands in 2010 are not driving this van.

[Jake Anthony]

No.

[Mattie]

Yeah, well, you just need something to get your amps etc to the thing. So I mean, I think they would drive a junkie van. So maybe that is what it is. But what about. I mean, we don't have kids, obviously, but people, you know, people with kids, do they keep pictures of them and their kid in their sun visor in their car? Who does that? Gross.

[Ronnie Karam]

It was, I feel like that was just a moment for her to spur us to say, I'm doing everything for my daughter. I'm living for.

[Mattie]

Yes, but it's just not good to your daughter because you use the sun visor when the sun is burning out your retinas and then you pull down the sun visor and you're like this.

[Ronnie Karam]

It's all too convenient.

[Jake Anthony]

And this is very late 90s because I remember or even mid, like in middle school and high school, like everyone, if you were dating someone like in high school and you had a car, you would put a picture of the you and that person in your little. This was very big. In my hometown of Lone Grove, everybody would have a picture of their loved one. The visor not in their visor, but on the dashboard in front of the steering wheel. It's always like, oh, yeah.

[Mattie]

People are like, yes, my kids. Just nobody does anything.

[Ronnie Karam]

Well, honestly though, this was the visor was about the reveal. This was about the. Here's me and my kid.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, it does seem like the person that wrote this movie was in a Kimmy Schmidt bunker for about 15 years and came out and thought life hadn't changed.

[Ben]

Because they probably wrote the script in 1999 and it's been sitting around for 25 years. And they finally just like threw it at Netflix. So they arrive at. I was actually very impressed by this. She arrives at her home home and it's like a multi family, like sort of apartment building kind of thing. And like, it's funny because normally in these movies there's always someone who is poor and broke, like, oh my God, the family business is about to fall. We don't have any money. And then they like go back to their like hobbles 1905 Victorian mansion house.

[Ronnie Karam]

This. This actually did feel like. It did feel like it's not government housing, but it felt like she would live there. It did feel like she would live there. It Was Flop house adjacent with nice. With. With nice. Like, with nice Christmas.

[Ben]

Like, condo is, like, sort of condo. But it was, like. It was, like, actually almost too realistic for these types of movies, because normally they just make it seem like these beautiful towns where everyone lives in a lovely house with, like, a. With an angled roof and, like, shingles and a. And a chimney and, like, a front porch. I was like, no, this is the. She lives in an apartment building.

[Ronnie Karam]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And so. So she's walking in, and she's walking into this, like, very gloomy hallway. Scary hallway. She's basically left, like, the set of Nomad Land and now is, like, entering into, like, that would have been good.

[Mattie]

If she just lived in her van. And, like, Frances McDormand was her neighbor, and she, like, had to pretend to be Francis.

[Ronnie Karam]

Hey, friend.

[Mattie]

Pretend to be Santa So that Frances McDormand didn't freak out every Christmas because her son died.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah, There you go.

[Ben]

Or she, like, she's like, I know what I'm going to do to raise the money for my daughter's snowboard camp. I'm going to sell these precious family dishes. And then David Tran comes by and breaks all the dishes by accident.

[Mattie]

Spoiler alert.

[Jake Anthony]

Spoiler.

[Ben]

Sorry.

[Ronnie Karam]

Sorry. Nomad Land.

[Ben]

Nomad Land.

[Jake Anthony]

Cut.

[Ronnie Karam]

So, yes, she's trying to. She walks through, and she's creaks. She steps on, and there's a creek. And then we meet Doralee.

[Mattie]

Now, when she said her name was Doralee, I immediately resisted her because that is the name of Dolly Parton's character in nine to Five. And so. So my first thought was, how dare you?

[Jake Anthony]

How dare you?

[Mattie]

How is this not Dolly Parton? Like, you can't just call somebody Dora Lee in a movie and have a.

[Jake Anthony]

Be okay with that.

[Mattie]

So it took me a minute for it to be won over, even though it was that actress, and I love that actress, so it didn't.

[Ronnie Karam]

I feel like if you call someone Doralee, you are immediately telling them, I think this was a misnomer. I think you're immediately telling us that this person is stupid. Stupid. Or this person is. Well, because that was Dolly Parton's. She was backwoods, and they think they considered her dumb, and she was considered her dumb, so she had to go above her name. And there are. So they're already saddling Dora Lee as this, and she's so much more.

[Jake Anthony]

I don't think they were thinking about that.

[Mattie]

But they were, though, because this was gays, wasn't it? I mean, this was like, gay guys.

[Ronnie Karam]

Your Character.

[Jake Anthony]

They had, like, your character a huge deal.

[Ronnie Karam]

Your character names. Really important.

[Mattie]

They are.

[Ben]

There were too many, like, references to beards in this movie that I was like, this has to be written by a game.

[Mattie]

Yeah. This was especially.

[Ronnie Karam]

There's, like.

[Ben]

There's, like a. There's a lot of gays. Yeah.

[Jake Anthony]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So she comes out and she's basically like, you're late with Rent again. And she's annoyed. And she's like, this twit here thinks I don't know about her stupid band. I know she's got money. I know she's getting residuals.

[Mattie]

Her band. Her teenage. Her teenage local band from 97 years ago.

[Ben]

She says they released an album.

[Ronnie Karam]

They have.

[Ben]

They have a vinyl.

[Ronnie Karam]

You know, one album. I had to put a new carburetor in my van. And Zoe wants a new snowboard for Christmas. Like, that's an excuse.

[Mattie]

But I really felt for the. I really felt for Kaylee or whatever the girl's name is, because Zoe. Zoe knows.

[Ronnie Karam]

Of course it is.

[Ben]

Oh, Taylor.

[Ronnie Karam]

Taylor.

[Mattie]

I felt for Taylor because I used to live in. When I lived in West Hollywood, my landlord lived right upstairs from me, and that is so annoying. And she had a window that she could see me come out of my apartment. It was like an outdoor building. And so she would always be like, oh, honey, could you maybe be a little quieter down there during the movie? It's like, you always had to hear her shit. And so I felt for her for having her landlord be right there up in her business. I don't need that.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

Could I also say that maybe this is a real trope of the landlord being a bad person, of the landlord saying, you know, you're late on the Renegade again. This is four months maybe the first time she was like, hey, Taylor, good to see you. It's the second. It's actually the fifth. And I just didn't get the check yet. It's great. You know, Zoe's looking really, really fun.

[Ben]

That is one of those.

[Mattie]

That's one of those things you say as you age because you start siding with the people that are supposed to be the villains. Like, you watch Rent. And when I went to see the movie version of Rent, I was like, but they're not paying their rent ranked. Like, how are they the heroes just.

[Ronnie Karam]

Trying to abide by the rules of business?

[Ben]

It's not like Dora Le and Scrooge McDuck here, like, swimming around the pools of gold. She's living the same.

[Mattie]

She also needs to pay your ass. A long time ago. This isn't California. You don't have squatting rights. Yeah.

[Ronnie Karam]

And like. And by the second, by the second time, she's like, Dory's like, taylor, you know, I, I know money's tight, but just maybe by the sixth or seventh, the check, the third month, she's like, taylor, I know you've been avoiding me just giving the money. And now this time is like, I need the money.

[Ben]

Which makes sense.

[Mattie]

By the fourth time. Yeah, I love 100%, you know, because I'm kind of rooting against the girl. I'm like, where's her cookie?

[Ronnie Karam]

She's the most well drawn character in the entire.

[Jake Anthony]

She should have had an eviction notice on the door that said, be out in two weeks. That would have also raised the stakes of this movie. Movie reality.

[Ronnie Karam]

Gaze and watch what crap insides with landlords. Put it out there.

[Mattie]

Yes.

[Jake Anthony]

We love landlords. All right, everybody, that was the first part of our marathon, so buckle up. We've got more coming to you, so be sure to check out the next episode and we will talk to you later.

[Ben]

Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King. It's always a party on Allison Block.

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She's our favorite streamer.

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She's a total knockout.

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It's Katie manock in the study with a candlestick. It's Leslie peacock G It's Lisa H. We're ride or die for Lisa Ryder baron she's a whiz. It's Liz sarthy always killing it.

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It's Lola al Kalani the incredible edible Matthew sisters she eases our woes. It's Melissa St. Rose there's a chance of meatballs. It's Rebecca cloud.

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Maximum love for Sandy maximoska. She's the queen bee. It's Sarah Lemke.

[Mattie]

We cannot tell a lie. It's Sarah tell of son Shannon out.

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Of a can and Anthony please don't stop at solely and pop let's take off with tamla plane you'll always get the full story with Tori our story.

[Mattie]

Persons she ain't no shrinking violet coutar we love you guys. If you like watch what crappens. You can listen ad free right now by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.