#3242 Bonus: Rob Has a Podcast/Watch What Crappens Crossover

Summary

Watch What Crappens x Rob Has a Podcast Crossover (#3232)

March 4, 2026 | Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam | Guest: Rob Cesternino

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Episode Overview

In this special crossover bonus episode, Ben and Ronnie from Watch What Crappens welcome legendary Survivor commentator Rob Cesternino (Rob Has a Podcast) for a rollicking, inside-baseball discussion about the current state of reality TV. The trio deep-dive into The Traitors ("Traders") and Survivor Season 50—what works, what flops, memorable moments, and meta-controversies that keep fandoms feuding. The episode is packed with hilarious, affectionate jabs, eye-opening reveals from former contestants, and dream-casting for future seasons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reunion: Reality TV Podcasting Roots

• [00:53] The hosts reminisce about their early days—TVGASM (Ben & Ronnie) and The Fishbowl (Rob)—attending reality events in LA pre-podcasting boom.
  • "Back in the heady days of 2004, 2005… it was a whole different world back then." – Ben Mandelker (01:29)
  • They jest about splitting earnings and surviving the reality TV boom.

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2. Coverage Focus: What They Recap

• [02:33] Rob covers competition reality (Survivor, Big Brother, Traitors); Ben & Ronnie specialize in Bravo universe.
• Discussion of the perennial challenge: Keeping up with neverending season marathons, especially during weak runs.

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3. THE TRAITORS (Traders) DEEP DIVE

Comparing Traitors & Survivor

• [05:08] How Traitors is fundamentally a different, more random, less control-driven game than Survivor:
  • "Survivor is an easier game to play… Traitors is just—there's so much randomness to it." – Rob Cesternino (05:18)
  • On Traitors, even with the numbers, "you're never really safe."
• [06:42] Ben notes: as spectacle, Traitors is brilliant—but it’s not a “perfect game,” unlike Survivor’s original design:
  • "Traitors is meant to be a spectacle first… Faithfuls don’t have as much control as the Traitors or a Survivor player." – Rob (06:42)

Gameplay, Strategy & Player Experience

• [07:25] Ronnie observes: "Having a gamer brain can backfire—Rob had it figured out, then got murdered."
• [08:02] Candace's infamous conga line, suspicious for both Rob and the audience—Rob hid from it, fearing the twist would kill whoever was first in line.
  • "I hid from the conga line because I thought that was the thing… maybe not so smartly… I tried to warn Candace, but I was already dead." – Rob (08:02)

Housewife vs. Gamer Dynamics

• [10:05] The recurring “Housewives on Traitors” controversy:
  • Reddit and media (e.g., Vulture) take sides: Should Housewives be cast at all?
  • "You need both of these things for Traitors to work… It’s the Avengers of reality TV." – Rob (12:08)
  • Ben pushes back on critics who claim Housewives bring only drama:
    • "It’s dismissive—so much of these games is about how you interact. The Housewives’ strength is their social game." – Ben (15:05)
  • Ronnie: "You gamers are pretty dramatic as well!" (10:50)

Controversial Reunion

• [13:27] Candace accuses Rob (Rob Has a Podcast) of "cheating" at the reunion.
  • Ronnie: "Super low of Candace…"
  • Rob: "What I saw there… they go into 'reunion mode'. They’re doing their thing—they know the assignment." (14:05)
• [14:13] Ben: "They [the Housewives] make it interesting!"

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4. Improving the Game/Format

• [20:04] Rob suggests giving Faithful more ways to protect themselves—maybe a ‘doctor’ role or powers to shield each other.
  • "Faithful are sitting ducks… Traders pick off the smartest people, then drag the rest to the end."
• [22:46] Ben proposes competitions with true stakes; Traders should be incentivized to sabotage shield gains, not just the prize pot.
  • Rob: "Could lead to more interesting roundtable discussion… instead of just paranoia."

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5. Editing, Twists, and Casting

• [23:27] Donna Kelsey’s “secret Traitor” twist—was she out of her comfort zone?
  • "She was a little bit just not ready for being… that role." – Rob
• [24:38] Dorinda vs. Ron edit drama: Ron claims Dorinda was edited to be nicer. Rob: "I was home when all that stuff was happening... I haven’t heard from others that Dorinda was horrible."
• [26:18] Ben & Ronnie mourn the eliminations of big Bravo personalities like Dorinda and Portia: "She was so tame compared to how they usually are!" (35:15)
• [28:10] Donna Kelsey twist: as a viewer, Ben liked not knowing the traitor’s identity; Rob wishes there were more actionable “clues” given to viewers.

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6. Meta-Strategy and Reality TV Culture

• [34:46] “Gamer” vs. Housewife alliances—should the show have themed seasons (all Housewives or all Gamers)?
  • Rob: "Gamers will come in scared next time, with a reputation now."
  • Ben: "The seasons are affected by previous meta. I want more seasons because the ongoing conversation is fascinating."

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7. SURVIVOR 50: An All-Star Season

Cast & Format

• [39:22] Survivor at 90 minutes: hosts find it harder to stay up-to-date, backstories/journeys often dominate episodes.
  • Ben: "I can't stand the journey!" (40:26)
• [41:59] Survivor’s new era is about personal growth, not just winning.
  • Rob: "Survivor is much more about what did every single person get out this journey… what did they learn about themselves."
• [44:56] The legend-heavy cast: mix of old-school icons (Surree, Ozzy, Coach, Colby) and new era stars (Q, Christian).
  • Q: "Such a star… then the meltdown was wild!" – Ben

Who’s Missing, Who’s Changed

• [49:06] Carolyn was a "lock" to return but got nixed for “doing Traitors.” Amanda Kimmel and Jerri Manthey wanted back, but were cut.
• "Ozzy is now Oscar—sideburns higher than ever." (53:37)
• Colby: previously cranky, now newly positive. Angelina: Now self-aware and “a mom.” Mike White: physically transformed.
  • "Mike White reamed me out on my podcast—for not respecting his gameplay or the Emoji Movie." – Rob (56:34)

Nostalgia & Dream Twists

• [53:00] Dream twist: all first-boots season.
• [53:37] Who's most changed? The group agrees: Ozzy (now Oscar) and Colby stand out. Mike White is now fit.
• [55:10] Ben recounts the infamous "can I have your jacket?" moment from Angelina.

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8. Survivor 50 Predictions

• [66:20] Final Three picks:
  • Rob: Joe, Tiffany (winner), Jonathan
  • Ben: Emily, Mike White, Chrissy
  • Ronnie: Aubrey, Suri, Rick Devin
• Discussion of who is strategically poised versus personal favorites.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ben Mandelker [15:05]:
  "All these games—Traitors, Mafia—are about how you interact with people. The Housewives’ strength is the social game, theoretically. To dismiss them is to dismiss a valuable component."
• Rob Cesternino [12:08]:
  "You need both of these things for Traitors to work. It’s the Avengers of reality TV."
• Ronnie Karam [10:50]:
  "You gamers are pretty dramatic as well… Jam Jam, you were kinda a drama queen. Drama is universal!"
• Rob Cesternino [08:02]: "I hid from the conga line… I thought the traitors were using it to murder. Maybe not so smartly, I tried to warn Candace, but I was already dead…"
• Ben Mandelker [65:35]:
  "Now the challenges have their own mythology—can you beat Kelly’s 35-second record? It’s kind of funny."
• Rob Cesternino [56:34]:
  "Mike White reamed me out… It’s a hilarious interview, but nobody on an exit interview has ever come in that hot!"

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Humorous and Meta Moments

• [32:33] Ronnie: "Don’t hate someone for being cute!" (on Rob winning Traitors)
• [72:29] Ben: "We’re not washed. We're not cooked. We still got it."
• [73:32] Ben: Fox Reality Awards nostalgia—celeb brawls, surreal afterparty scenes.

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Time-Stamped Highlights

• [03:49] – Survivor nostalgia and show longevity
• [06:04] – Traitors vs. Survivor as a “game”
• [09:13] – Backstage POV on “murder in plain sight”
• [12:08] – Hot take: Housewives vs. Gamers debate
• [20:04] – Rob’s suggestions for improving Traitors' format
• [28:10] – Donna Kelsey twist and gameplay mechanics
• [35:15] – Idea: all-Gamers or all-Housewives season
• [39:22] – Survivor transitions from 60 mins to 90 mins
• [44:56] – Biggest Survivor legends and new era stand-outs
• [56:34] – Mike White's infamous RHAP interview
• [66:20] – Survivor 50 final three predictions

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Useful for New Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for Bravo and competition reality fans alike, packed with inside jokes, social game analysis, meta-reality TV culture commentary, and top-tier banter. Whether you want a primer on what makes “Traitors” compelling, how Survivor’s meta keeps evolving, or to reminisce on reality TV’s wilder, earlier days—this conversation delivers.

Transcript

[Rob Cisternino]

Hey, per don pori interrumpirto playlist. Peroesto es me Jorge Musica son cosas gratis. Descarga TikTok busca free link in pieza is la Sharahora.

[Ben Mandel]

Watch what happens. Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens?

[Ronnie Caramen]

Well, hello and welcome to Watch what Crappens. I'm Ronnie. That's Ben. And today it's not just Watch what crappens. It's also Rob is a podcast.

[Rob Cisternino]

And I'm Rob Cisterno. I'm so thrilled to be back together.

[Ben Mandel]

Oh, my God, Rob.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yes.

[Ben Mandel]

This is. This is a thrill. I'm. I'm specifically excited, not just obviously, as a fan of Traders and Survivor, but also, like, we go back, oh, 20 years or so.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yes. Like, yes. Well, once a decade, I like to collaborate, so I'm so happy to be back. And congrats on all your success. Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

I mean, what people don't may not realize is that back in the heady days of 2004, 2005, Ronnie and I were doing TVGASM and you were doing the Fishbowl, and we'd see each other at these, like, reality show event things in. In LA all the time, you know, and that was like a whole different world back then.

[Rob Cisternino]

And we made it. This is so great. We're alive. We made it through true Survivors working.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, yeah, you made it all the way through that time into podcasts, actually matter now, which is crazy.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, right, right. And. And you guys are so successful, and the only place where I have you beat is that there's only one of me, so I don't have to split the money like you two have to.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, we've both got murder plans. I'm sure we're taking life insurance out on each other over here soon.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, but this is great.

[Ben Mandel]

Let's. Let's not diminish your accomplishments. I mean, you have built an amazing empire over on your end. We sort of have our own areas of reality tv, you know, like, we're

[Rob Cisternino]

the Traders Brings us together.

[Ben Mandel]

It actually does. It does so for our listeners. Rob, you're covering Survivor. You do Big Brother too. Do you do just all the CBS reality.

[Rob Cisternino]

I would say the competition reality show. So anything that's a game with their strategy, that's the stuff that we really. But Survivor is number one, and the Traders has been so huge, and we do a lot of Big Brother coverage all season long. So really, anything that's a strategy game.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Big Brother is a bear too. To keep up with that you know, we've had seasons where we've done Big Brother, and that is not an easy one to keep up with, especially when the season sucks or something, you know?

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Which has been the case recently quite a bit.

[Rob Cisternino]

This last one was good. I don't know how closely you follow.

[Ben Mandel]

You know, we'll get onto that. But, like, I've heard that this last one was a really good season. But you know what? What we're gonna do is we're gonna do first half of this episode, we're gonna talk Traders, and we're gonna talk to Rob about both you having now been on it and also from as you as a commentator about these sort of games. And then the second half, we're gonna do something that is where I personally am really excited about. We're gonna talk Survivor.

[Rob Cisternino]

So, Ronnie, are you excited for Survivor?

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. Listen, I've watched tons of Survivor seasons. I used to do videos called Survivor in two Minutes, where I would make these comedy videos and just do the whole episode. And I used to be obsessed, but these shows just go on forever. I mean, that it's season 50. At some point, I just had to. I know a lot of the people on this one, though. I remember Coach, and I remember. And he's exactly the same, which is hilarious. He's got, like, a Bravo thing going on where he's coming on. He's like, it's 2.0. It's like a different. A different coach. Nah.

[Rob Cisternino]

4.0.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I've seen a couple of his. So, yeah, I'm pretty into Survivor. I just.

[Rob Cisternino]

Nobody's ever like, this is like a 3.1. This is like a little bit of an update from the last.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Do like, the incremental, like a 1.2.

[Rob Cisternino]

This is like a patch.

[Ben Mandel]

They just have a software.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I've changed my font. That's it.

[Ben Mandel]

Okay, so let's start with the Traders. And of course, the question I have to ask.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Because I feel. And I. You probably answered on your podcast. And if you're like. Like, with us, we are so consumed with Bravo that we never get to, you know, really listen to too many other pop culture. So apologies to your listeners who probably.

[Rob Cisternino]

That's okay if you don't know everything I've ever said before.

[Ben Mandel]

Okay. But, like, the burning question for me is, how was the Traders experience different than the Survivor experience for you?

[Rob Cisternino]

So the Traders experience is so bizarre because you go there and it's not necessarily like Survivor, where it's like, hey, okay, I'm going to get my people and. Okay, I know I have the numbers and I'm in a group and I'm safe. Where on the Traders, if you're faithful, you're never really safe. And even if you have numbers that somebody in your numbers could be wanting to kill you or you said the wrong thing to the wrong person. And so there's so many different ways where you screwed up, and even if you didn't screw up, somebody thinks you might not screw up, and then they could just end you like that. So Survivor is an easier game to play, I think, than the Traders, where the Traders is just. There's so much randomness to it.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, yeah. I.

[Ben Mandel]

Some of my friends, I'm. I'm a huge board gamer and I play a lot of these social deduction games, et cetera, and a lot of my board game friends struggle with the traders because they feel like the faithful don't have any way to get any good, real information. And so they're just sort of scrambling. And so for them, the strategy side of that is, like, really, really hard. And I. I can imagine that idea of, like, just going into this game and you think you're doing well and then you're just. You are just, like, snuffed out in a second because you said the wrong thing to the wrong person and you had no idea. I mean, I personally love that as a viewer. I think it's like, it's a great

[Rob Cisternino]

TV show as a game. It's probably not as elegantly designed as Survivor, which is really just such a perfect game in terms of. In its purest form. But the Traitors is meant to be a spectacle first. And there is a game that's being played more so by the Traitors, where the faithful that if they can avoid the purge of just being picked off by the Traders, that there are a lot of things that the faithful can do later on in the game, but they just don't have as much control over their fate as the Traders do, or as a player might have on Survivor or Big Brother.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Well, yeah. I mean, as far as the gameplay goes, you see how much it hurts you to have a kind of gamer brain, because you had it figured out pretty. I mean, right before you got kicked off or murdered.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

You got banished, right?

[Rob Cisternino]

I got murdered. So I got murdered in plain sight, Ronnie.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes, yes, yes, that's right.

[Ronnie Caramen]

He got murdered. You figured it out. You're like, candace, let's go. Then you were dead.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. And you were the only one that knew that A murder of plain sight was probably happening. When Candace started up that conga line. It was for us as viewers. It's like, this is the most random thing ever. And it did not strike anyone as strange. It strike you as strange that she was doing that?

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, it did strike me as strange. I know that she has said that you. She, for whatever reason, that she wanted to do a conga line. I'm not sure why that. That was a thing, but she had been talking about it for, like, a day or so of, like, we should do a conga line in the castle. Nobody's ever done that before. But I was already thinking, okay, there's a murder in plain sight is happening. And then once I was looking for anything that was weird or out of the ordinary, and then the conga line started. I'm like, wait, that. That is actually very weird that that was happening right now. And so I hid from the conga line because I thought that that was maybe the thing the Traders were doing of, like, whoever is the first person in the conga line is going to be the murdered person. Which was actually better than what actually was happening, where it was like, hey, actually know that somebody's going to just burn your card in the fireplace. But I was very concerned about that. And then I. Maybe not so smartly then, was like, I got to warn people about this. The traitors are trying to kill people, Candace. They're gonna kill us tonight. And so I tried to warn Candace about the murder in Plain Sight, but I was already dead at that point. They already. They already threw my card in the fireplace.

[Ben Mandel]

I was gonna say, did you. Have you talked to. Okay, well, that's interesting, because I think the way it was presented was that you had said something. It looked like you had said something beforehand and the card had happened afterwards, but you were already burned.

[Rob Cisternino]

So I thought they had already made the decision. So what they presented in the show. And again, I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly if this was how out, but Rob and Lisa were making the decision of what to do. I was with Candace, and then they went and. And threw my card in the fireplace. And Candace didn't know who they ended up killing that night. And so she was sweating bullets that, oh, I hope they killed Rob C. Because he figured this stuff out. And then she was very relieved when it was me. No.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Bummer. So a big article came out today after the reunion.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

On Vulture, saying, no more Housewives on Traders. And that is very. That is a big controversy every season on Traders. When I'm reading the Reddit threads, people having a fit about the Housewives. I mean, such a fit. I, I look at it and I think, you know, you, the gamers are pretty dramatic as well. I mean, I feel like there's a lot of drama queens with the gamers as well. I mean, Jam Jam, obviously you, you're kind of a drama queen. Last night you watched or this weekend, this. On the reunion, you told Jam Jam he was a pick me girl.

[Rob Cisternino]

I didn't call him a girl. I didn't say it's a girl.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, so I think you guys have your drama too. So I say unfair. Damn you, vulture. Take it back.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, and also, just, just to read, just to clarify. Not to clarify, but to add on to that, here's a quote from, from, from the blurb that was because none of us were willing to pay the paywall podcasters.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Cheap ass podcasters.

[Ben Mandel]

No, I'm like, I'll just, we'll just use what we listen. This is what they put out there. Okay, so the author is Joe Reed, and he says after last week's lackluster reunion, which by the way, they've all been lackluster, this is the fourth lackluster reunion in a row. Actually, the first season didn't even have one, I don't think. But after last week's last lackluster reunion, it became clear that the Housewives don't want to play the traitors. They want to play the Real Housewives of the Highlands and have arguments that spill out into social media, then meet up for a Housewives style reunion, which I would argue is all reunions on reality tv. With their patron, Andy Cohen, the contrast this season couldn't have been clearer. Rob Roush played a near perfect game, while Lisa and Candace made mistakes and then spent the better part of two months telling any Instagram follower or podcast host who would listen about how they were betrayed in a game that's literally a game, the name of the game. So what are your thoughts on this blazing hot take?

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, I have gotten to see the fan bases battle a little bit, especially on Twitter where that the strategy fans are saying like, oh, the Housewives, they don't get it. And Lisa and Candace are being bitter and then the Housewives fans being like, okay, the gamers are ruining things and Rob shouldn't have done what he did. And first off, I think that you need both of these things for the traders to work. And I do think that the reason why it's so successful is it, it's it is this Avengers of reality TV where the Housewives bring in, they, they really, they put a lot of the asses in the seats for this thing. Because if this, if there, if you didn't have Housewives on the Traders, it would not be nearly as popular. And I think that it's no coincidence that the second season when Phaedra was a traitor, that was the season that the show really became a juggernaut. So first off, you need the Housewives for the trade. You can't do the Traders without the Housewives. I did think that some of the things that Lisa and specifically Candace were saying about the game that Rob played, that. I don't think that Rob did anything that wasn't above board in theory with that.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I thought that was super low of Candace to come on and accuse him of cheating blatantly. And it was, it was so stupid. You know, for those of you who didn't see it, she was saying, well, I heard that you told Rob or you told Colton that I was a traitor. Well, dummy, even if he did, it wouldn't matter. It would only matter if he said, yeah, she's a traitor. And I know I'm a traitor.

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, I thought that was a nothing burger. She did not really have anything there. But I think that what I saw there at the reunion show and I hadn't ever been to any of these reunions with the Housewives was that you're being talking to them and they're all normal and then they go into like reunion mode.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Rob Cisternino]

And so that they are like, they're, they're working it and so they're doing their thing. They, they know what the assignment is.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes.

[Rob Cisternino]

If you thought it was lackluster with that, it would have been even more boring if they were just like, hey, you know, tip my cat. That guy was good.

[Ben Mandel]

It 100 would have been. And I think what Joe Reed seems to be missing from what I can tell here.

[Rob Cisternino]

And I, I know Joe Reed is a nice guy.

[Ben Mandel]

Is, is Joe Reed a, is he a Housewives fan? Do you know? Or is he, does he watch more

[Rob Cisternino]

of a, a strategy show fan?

[Ben Mandel]

So.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Right.

[Ben Mandel]

That's what comes through to me, which is that what Housewives fans, what we all love is the, the excitement of these crackling personalities coming together. These sharp tongued women who've had to kind of get by with their sharp tongues and their wits and clashing. And I think it's actually, there's an interesting parallel with Survivor where I feel like, or maybe earlier seasons of Survivor, people just focus so much on, on those who had brawn, you know. And like, I think in later seasons we have come to really appreciate those who can be a little sneakier and those who are really can use their wits. And like, what I like about having the Housewives on there is because we know what sort of personalities they have. We know that when they are, if they're put on the hotspot, they're, they're going to defend themselves in interesting and entertaining ways. And it's exciting to see them being thrown in the mix. And so when he says, when this, when Joe Reed says, oh, they just want to have arguments that spill it onto social media. They're not trying to have arguments to spell it on social media. That's just, they are just used to the fact that that's the area where they litigate things. And so to be like, oh, they just want to have arguments. I think it's actually so dismissive of a whole element of this game because so much of this game, yes, it's about strategy, but it's not purely about strategy in my opinion. All these games, traders, any mafia, all these games are about how you interact with people and your social game. And the housewives like their strength is the social game theoretically. And so I just feel like it's totally, I think I feel like this, it just totally dismisses a really valuable component of the game to just be like, oh, whatever. With the housewives sorting fights.

[Ronnie Caramen]

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[Ben Mandel]

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[Ronnie Caramen]

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[Ben Mandel]

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[Rob Cisternino]

The problems that may have happened with this season, if you have any issues, like I don't think it has to do with that. There were too many housewives on the cast. If anything, it was more of an issue of the faithfuls not being able to put things together and be able to crack what was going on towards the end of the season. And it really was an exciting end of the season. So I don't feel like that there was any issue with the housewives being so prominent in the season. I think that the show and I was the biggest person to be a it came at my expense, if anything, where I ended up being murdered early because there was payback from that. The housewives had been taken out so early in previous seasons they got power and it was a lot of like, hey, let's take out the gamers in this season. But the show needed to do that.

[Ronnie Caramen]

It's like sense of the father.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, the show needed to do that because that it was getting too much. Where okay, well, we know the Survivor is a traitor. We know a Big Brother person is a traitor. And so they showed this season they could do anything.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I would actually love when you were talking about, when you were talking about the game, you know, not being as good as a Game as a game, you know, a survivor. What improvements would you make to the format of the game? Like have you thought, I'm sure you thought about it.

[Rob Cisternino]

I've thought about it a little bit. I think that this, they need to do more to. For the faithful to be able to protect themselves where that things like I don't know, maybe if you get a traitor out then the traitors don't get to murder. Or there could be more ways that players could get shields and try to protect each other. I know it's sort of like a werewolf type game. Then maybe there could be like a doctor type character who is somebody who could protect one of the faithfuls. If they think they know who the traitors are going to murder, could they try to save a person? So I think that the faithful are often jested sitting ducks and so that the traders are looking okay, who are the people who are the smartest people and then let's try to get rid of them and try to drag all of the people who, who are never going to figure it out to the end. And sometimes that could be not as exciting to watch.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, I think that like the, you know, I, I play. Have you ever played the Resistance or Resistance Avalon? It's kind of like it's kind of one of these games, you know, and a lot of a common thing and whether it's resistance or mafia or werewolf or blood on the clock Tower. Yeah, there's like someone who knows like for sure who one of the traitors is essentially. But if they just are like I know it's this person then they are going to be at high risk of getting, getting murdered. So they have to like sort of like show that they know the information but they can't be too crazy about it and it makes a really great tension. And like when the treaters premiered, we're not premiere but after that first season I was like, oh my goodness. This format is so ripe for so many interesting variations because you can start adding in secret roles that these games all have. You can have a season where it's like it is all housewives in the turrets or it is all Survivor people and you can mix and match. But like I think like aside from adding roles and things like that, hidden roles where people have special powers, I think the number one thing they've got to do is they've got to tighten up their approach to the competitions because they, they just don't carry any weight for the audience. And also I think it's the thing we all care the least about if there were an element where the. The traders were actively in every single mission working to sabotage the ability to get shields. Like, like, if the mission fails or if this thing doesn't happen, then no one gets shields, then that means that the tr. That the faithful could look at the behavior of people in those missions and use that as actual, you know, building blocks to building arguments and breadcrumbs towards things.

[Rob Cisternino]

That's a really good point. I think a lot of people throw out the idea of like, well, the traders should be trying to prevent them from getting money, like it's the mole. But to have them be able to prevent the players from getting shields is actually something that they would want. And it's also, oh, that this person blocked me. I think that person's a traitor. So it could lead to more interesting discussion at the round table. And because a lot of times the roundtable stuff where it gets ugly is sort of like, you seem like a traitor. You. I think you said something wrong the wrong way. So maybe if they had like a little bit more to go off of, like, that the discussion would be a little bit more substantive at the roundtable.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I don't know how much you're allowed to talk about of stuff that didn't really air, but there was a lot of controversy this season. Well, a couple things. First was the Donna Kelsey secret trader thing and why she was so quiet. A lot of people online were speculating that she was. They just got her off early because she. She ratted herself out basically and told somebody she was a traitor. Is there any truth to that?

[Rob Cisternino]

I mean, I hadn't heard that. I think that Donna Kelsey was probably not really thrilled to be a tr. My read on it was that Donna was out of her comfort zone. She was a traitor. It was not a thing that I think that she necessarily wanted. It was sort like randomly who. That we're going to make one person a trader. I got the sense that she didn't necessarily want to be that person and then she was doing it by herself. And I think that she was, like, overly cautious. I think she would have been better off if she was one of the normal traders and like, had like a support system. But I think that she was a little bit just not ready for being. Having that role and having to be by herself and make those calls.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. Another one was this Dorinda versus Ron. Yeah, Ron stuff. Because Ron, once he came off the show, you know, we saw some of it where he. She was saying, you know, you don't ask us about Our families and stuff. Ron, he's like, I don't give a fuck about your family. So we saw some of that stuff. But after, you know, he's been doing a lot of media and a lot of sets, you know, as a comedian, talking about the show and suggesting that there was a lot worse side of Dorinda that they kept editing out. And then Dorinda said a lot of really problematic stuff to him. And, you know, there's been a lot of stuff like that going online. Did you feel like there was a lot of stuff that was left on the editing floor with those two?

[Rob Cisternino]

I mean, I wish I knew I was home when all that stuff was happening. So from what you heard, I definitely got that Ron feels that way in terms of how that. What he got from Dorinda, I don't think that he would make that up. But I also haven't heard from a lot of other people, oh, my God, the. Dorinda was horrible to Ron when we were there. So.

[Ronnie Caramen]

But you see a lot of, like, Dorinda acting up that.

[Rob Cisternino]

No, cut Dorinda from season three to season four. And you guys are the Durinda experts. I don't know if Dorinda seems like that. She's totally just, like, chill and Zen. And. I mean, other than saying to Ron, you didn't ask anybody about their families, Dorinda was very quiet and was not at all, like the person that we saw in season three come back from the mission and start yelling at everybody. And maybe it was an adjustment, but I don't know. I think it was different.

[Ben Mandel]

I think it was an adjustment. And that's why I was, like, sad that she got murdered, because I. I wanted her to be on the hot seat because I felt like if she would been on the hot seat, then we would have seen that Dorinda. And it was definitely an anticlimactic second run for her, for us, because we were, like. We were so upset that we only got, like, a sliver of her last season. And so when they brought her back, we're like, yes, now we're gonna see Dorinda, and she's gonna be. You know, she's gonna.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, yeah, you want to see?

[Ben Mandel]

You better watch your ass.

[Ronnie Caramen]

You know, you want action going cray cray.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. But actually, she was rarely, like, on the defense. Like, she had a few words with Maura, but it was really sad to see that. It was sad to see Portia go out early, too. And I think Porsche at the reunion, you really could imagine, like, oh, she Would have had. She would have just been a trim. Just so fun to watch, you know, on this show. And seeing her deal with people, you know, that was like a. Those are gut punch loose portions.

[Ronnie Caramen]

So many of them that they got that. That were eliminated early were just good. I mean, you. Ian. Poor Ian didn't get to do anything.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, yeah. For Ian.

[Ben Mandel]

What did you think about the. The Kelsey. The Donna Kelsey twist, by the way, in general, did you think that's a good twist?

[Rob Cisternino]

So when I found out what it was like and how it all worked, I actually do think it could be something interesting where I felt like it was a little bit of like a cat and mouse game between the secret trader and the real traders, where that. The real traders, like, I could imagine a world where they're getting pissed. Like they. They're not giving us the people that we want to murder. Like, if the secret trader was like, really messing with these people and like giving them only, like, their friends, it's like, oh, I don't want to kill them. Like, it could be something. I just thought that with, you know, when it. It wasn't really a fair fight to have Donna versus.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Rob Cisternino]

The three traders who I think in their own way were all, like, pretty capable when they were working together as a group. Like, they were pretty formidable, those three. And then once the wheels came off, it fell apart.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, I. I liked it as a viewer. Personally, I enjoyed that. You know, we had no idea who it was because, you know, for the past few seasons, I love that we know who the traitors are, and you have this amazing tension, but sometimes you think match. What would this game be like if I didn't know? So to have just like one was, like, I thought, really fun. And I hope that I would love to see them try it again and see if it. If it sort of pops more the second time. But I enjoyed the guessing game just as a spectator.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, it was something that they tried that. To speak to your point that they really were trying to give you that. Okay. So when you're at home, you don't know. When they go stand in the circle of truth, are they gonna say they're a traitor or a faithful. Can you figure it out at home? But I don't think you really ever could have figured it out at home because I feel like that they weren't giving you a ton of clues. Clues as to what. What to be looking for.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Well, it's kind of the fundamental problem in the game for me is that there's no real Clues, you know, there's no clues for anything. So it's just basically a guessing game to the end. Unless people are super dramatically acting suspiciously. Yeah, it's, you know, it's kind of a carnival game, but eventually, like for

[Rob Cisternino]

the faithful, if you can make it past like the initial couple of rounds that you could say, okay, why did this person do this? How come when we brought this person's name up, why are they defending this person? And then especially, yeah. And then it starts to snowball. Then once you get that first trader, it's like, okay, why this person voted with this person? Okay, why did this person vote for this person? And so I do think that there's a lot of ways it can unravel for the traders once you get a couple of rounds in, but it's always going to be a little unfair for those first couple of people who end up getting murdered just for whatever reason.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

I mean, so if you had, if you had made it deeper into the game.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Two part question, do you think you would have been able to suss out Rob? And second of all, do you think you would have been able to discern that Candace was leaving a breadcrumb? Because one of my pet peeves on the season was how she left the biggest breadcrumb in my, from my vantage point, from a lot of people's vantage point, and no one seemed to really, you know, do anything with it.

[Rob Cisternino]

You listen, I was not on Rob's trail when I was there. He seemed like he was not even interested in being there. He was like in the fridge eating cookies, like getting drinks, like he was in the very beginning of the game not doing anything that I thought was suspicious. But as the game went along, you had those two big votes that Candace put where Candace was like, it's just, it's just random. And then she votes for him again. But also the fact that he has the dagger and then he doesn't end up being murdered. And it's like, okay, well, nobody in that group was a traitor. So I think that that was also a big tell that he has that dagger for so many rounds that he never has to use, where if you were a faithful, I think you'd want to burn that immediately just to get that monkey off your back where it's not another reason for the traders to kill you. And he never really has a shield. So I think that that also would have been pretty suspicious as you got towards the end of the game.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. Do you think that his looks helped propel him to the Win.

[Rob Cisternino]

And I don't want to take that away from him because that's part of the whole package. But he really had. He had the women and he had the men all really just eating out of the palm of his hands. And he doesn't talk a lot. He comes off as somebody who doesn't seem like he's really scheming. He was good in the challenges. He's polite, so he did so many things right. But in that castle, the people were just swooning for Rob.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Well, yeah, I mean. Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

I mean, he's not.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Bless him. Yeah. But you can't hate on someone for being cute. You know what I mean?

[Ben Mandel]

So do you think if you were. If you had been a traitor.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

What. How would you have. How would you have handled yourself?

[Rob Cisternino]

I didn't want to be a traitor and maybe mistake on my part, but I thought that coming into the game, I really wanted to bond with people, and I felt like that if I was holding back this secret that I was a traitor. I thought that that would have come off as shady to people. And I knew that the survivors were going to have a big target on their back, and I really was worried that people were going to come in and look at me as, oh, he's a gamer. It's always one of the survivors, and we're going to banish him right away. But I felt like that if I could come in and be myself and be a valuable person to the faithful, I thought that would help me. Turns out that I played in a season where there were no other game people that were in the turret. Nobody was keeping me safe. And so. So people all thought I was a faithful, but the traders didn't want to keep me around.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Right.

[Ben Mandel]

I'm kind of, like, ready for a. A time when we can, like, not have this, like, housewives versus game war. Like, I'm just sort of, like, sick of it because I, like, I'm. I'm fans of people from both sides and watching them, like, take each other out, and then you get stuck with Mark Ballas at the end. It's, like, really annoying.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. And Mark's a really nice guy also. But I wanted to work with. With the housewives that, you know, we had, I thought, mutually aligned interests where there was five people from the games and five people from the Housewives shows, and you had Michael Rapaport there, and Michael Rapaport was like, okay, okay, let me. I'm a math guy. Okay, so there's five housewives. Okay, Trader. Okay, five. There's five. One, two, three, four, five, five gamers.

[Ben Mandel]

Okay.

[Rob Cisternino]

That's a trader right there. And I was like, I said to Portia, like, hey, do we have a Michael Rappaport problem? Like, I think that we need to, like, try to work together. They have numbers, we have numbers. It should be the housewives and the gamers versus everybody else. Like, why? Why not?

[Ronnie Caramen]

Great. That is a great point. Because if you could just make it halfway through the game, you could do a Survivor style. Just make it halfway through as a team and then turn on each other, you know?

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Rob Cisternino]

Or just try to keep each other safe for a little while.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. I would love to see an all Survivor season or an all gamer season and an all Housewives season. I think that would be nice because the housewives could be actually be housewives because, you know, as people saying, oh, they're trying to make it so dramatic. They are so tame on this show compared to how they usually are.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

You know, I mean, and you can see in the reunion, because Candace comes out a little more as Candace and Portia had the whole reunion. I mean, the whole reunion reunion was Portia, and she was on there, like two episodes. So, you know, they could really take over the show. And if they were really ready to let their freak flags fly. And then on the opposite end, I think the gamers would be able to be a little more vocal and not shy back from being as scary to the rest of the cast because they're. They're big gamers, you know?

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. Oh. I think that the gamers that play next time, I think are going to be playing very scared from the start because now I feel like there's such a reputation and it's such a thing of we have to take out the gamers. I wonder how much also Dorinda coming into last season and then going off on Bob the drag queen. If the housewives came in this season a little bit, hey, I'm not gonna, like, create as much chaos or drama. I'm just here to get along with everybody because they really weren't having a lot of conflict in the actual time in Scotland.

[Ben Mandel]

Well, you know.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Right. Well, I'm sorry, but the Bob the drag queen thing, Dorinda didn't really go off on Bob or any of that. Bob came for Dorinda right away. So Dorinda didn't get go off on Bob until the reunion. That's when she came in. Like, I was so nice to you.

[Rob Cisternino]

Wasn't she mad that they ate dinner without her?

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, yeah, she Because. Because they were stuck on that pontoon, so I forgot about that. Yeah. So she was just. I love that. But it is such a bummer, though, that. That she came back and was so. So clearly, it was like, oh, I can't go off on people. Etc.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I mean.

[Ben Mandel]

And what's interesting about. I think especially the Traders, maybe even more so than Survivor or Big Brother, you do, like, develop a meta across seasons. And so people are often reacting to what happened in the last season. Like, oh, well, the. The gamers. We seem too scary. We have to come in kind of chill this season, you know, and everyone has to sort of react what happened last season, which is why, like, you know, I don't want to kill the golden goose, but that's why I kind of want to have more and more seasons of it. Like, it's hard to wait for, like, once a year because they're. The seasons are actually really affected by each other, so it creates an ongoing kind of, like, conversation between them. But I think it's like, it's such a malleable format. You really, like. Ronnie said you can do a season of All Housewives. It would be great. And you could have a season of the exact same players, bring the entire cast back and play out in a whole different way. That'll be really fascinating. It's such a. To me, it's such a good format, and that's why I just got so mad at that article being like, you know, it doesn't need the Housewives.

[Rob Cisternino]

Like, no, you need it. You need everything.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, everything. And like that. Yes. The house. Yes. Candace and Lisa were being salty, but thank God they're being salty. How entertaining is it to watch that reunion? Watch them be salty? You know, of course, Rob played a great game. They know Rob played a great game, but also they. They also, you know, let them. Let them go and. And attack him, too. Like. Like he deserves that as well.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. At least they were upset with Robbie that I kind of thought, like, I was gonna go there. And Maura was like, okay. Oh, wow. She's gonna really give Rob a piece of her mind. And she's like, oh, well, he's gonna buy me a purse.

[Ronnie Caramen]

So she was waiting for that Birkin. I saw pictures going around today of her with the Birkin, so she got it.

[Rob Cisternino]

I'm so doomed.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I'm so dome the whole time.

[Rob Cisternino]

Busca freelo TikTok shop.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Do you guys want to move on to some Survivor Survivors? Let's do it. Season 50, like, so Survivor, like, you've Never seen it before. Yeah, three hours, you guys. No one told me that part when you were like, hey, let's talk Survivor too. I was like, I'm down. I haven't watched that in forever. I turned that on. I was like, three hours? Yeah, you have to catch up to three hours.

[Rob Cisternino]

You missed so much that you were overdue.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Exactly.

[Ben Mandel]

Who knows? It was a lot. I have to say, since, since the switch to survivor, going to 90 minutes, I have a harder time watching it. I've been, I've watched every single season of Survivor. I'm never gonna abandon it. But what will happen is sometimes I'll, like, miss an episode and, like, you miss one or two episodes and then you're like, in a hole. You're like, oh, man, I've got three hours to watch. It's just sort of hard to. And I feel like so many of the quote unquote, new era episodes are people going off to another island, journeys, a journey. I honestly, I, I, I don't want to, I don't want to piss off your audience if this is not the way people are feeling. I can't stand the journey.

[Rob Cisternino]

No, I think that you are in, like, on the right side of history. I think that. So, Ronnie, since Survivor came back after Covet, it's been the new era of Survivor. And so it used to be 39 days and that was the whole thing. And now they made it 26 days, so it's less days. And they do a lot of different things just to keep it, like, more random and fast paced because it's a shorter amount of time.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. And the journey part, they seem to have calmed down on that a bit, at least for this season, I guess, maybe because we know everybody. But there were a couple where I was trying to watch where I was like, what is this? They're like, well, I lost a lollipop when I was a kid in a

[Rob Cisternino]

mall under my desk, but got stuck

[Ronnie Caramen]

in the escalator and he hasn't been

[Rob Cisternino]

able to walk, so I deserve to rice.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I'm like, what is this? This is like you're supposed to be surviving, not crying about every little thing in your life.

[Rob Cisternino]

You know, a lot of backstory, a

[Ben Mandel]

lot of it's, it's a very touchy feel. I mean, look, I love Jeff Prost. You know, he is one of the, he's one of the all time great reality show hosts of, you know, he's just so good. But sometimes I feel like when I watch Survivor, you know, since his talk show was canceled, he's like, well, the talk show's canceled, but I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna like, here's a talk show segment, and you're sitting there, and he's like, what does it feel like? You're here. You're feeling the sand. Have you ever felt sand before? Blue scarf. Have you touched sand before? It's like, yes, I have touched sand. And what does this sand feel like? I'm like, oh, my God. Let's go. Come on, let's go.

[Rob Cisternino]

That's been another big change of Survivor as it's gotten towards the new era, is that it really is much more about trying to tell a journey of self discovery for all of the players. So it used to be back in the old school, Survivor, it's like, one person's gonna win, and then what are they willing to do to win? And everybody else is gonna lose, but one person's gonna get a million dollars. Now Survivor. And Jeff will say, this is much more about what did every single person get out of this journey and this experience? What did they learn about themselves on Survivor? And we're really telling that story in the backdrop of, yeah, one person's gonna go home every week.

[Ben Mandel]

Mm, yes. So it's more sensitive.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I mean, it's like every. I think every reality show has done that in the past decade where it's like, okay, guys, let's embrace, like, what makes us cry, you know, but it's

[Rob Cisternino]

not really what the fans want.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Well, I mean, I don't know, because they keep watching, so I don't know. And people even talk like that in real life. You know, it's like, how are you? It's like, well, I mean, triggered and traumatized. You want to hear about my week? You know, it's like, oh, geez. You know, for me, I don't.

[Ben Mandel]

I don't mind if there's, like. If there's scenes of someone who's, like, dealing with something, dealing with the death in their family. What I don't like is sometimes, like, the. Like, a challenge will end and someone has, like, came in dead last, but they, like, manag to somehow, like, push a ball up a ramp after many tries. And then we sit there for five minutes while Jeff has, like, a therapy session with them. Like, what did that ball me for you? I'm like, it lost.

[Rob Cisternino]

It's okay.

[Ben Mandel]

Like, this is not the moment where I need to have, like, a journey. What do you think? What do you think? Okay, so who are you rooting for? Anyone in this cast, Right? Like, off who are your favorites? Who are your favorites that you want to win and who are your favorites that you think would.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Will.

[Ben Mandel]

Will. Will win?

[Rob Cisternino]

Okay, so I'm excited to see all of the legends come back. In terms of the cast of what they ended up doing, I felt like they brought back too many people from the new era where there's 12 people that played from seasons one through 40, and they brought back 12 people who played from seasons 41 through 49. So it really is very lopsided in terms of the newer players that they brought back from the last couple of years. So in terms of the legends being there, you're very excited to see a lot of the, you know, four timers, five timers, Surrey, Ozzy, coach are all the mainstays, and Colby ends up coming back then also, I really like Christian Hyubicki, who is back for this season from the new era. I really like Q. Q, I think, is just somebody who is an casting person, and so he's been so fun to have him come back.

[Ben Mandel]

His meltdown on his season was so epic. He was doing so well. He was such a star, and, like, he just. He really was like. He had his whole tribe. I was like, this guy's going to the end. And then all of a sudden, a flip switched, and his meltdown was so wild. I agree. He is, like, one of the great casting choices. I don't understand. I. I don't have, like, a strong memory of Tiffany.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Wasn't. Didn't she leave, like, relatively early in the.

[Rob Cisternino]

She came in eighth in her first season. She played with Q, right?

[Ben Mandel]

Oh, that's right. She played with Q. Yeah.

[Rob Cisternino]

And sometimes when they do the returning seasons of Survivor, they like to bring people back in pairs where it's like, oh, they fought the first time, so we'll bring them back and they'll fight again.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, I would have liked some. You know what? It would have been great to have some representation of those sort of, like, middle seasons. You know, you have. You have, like, a Colby, which is great. Although you know what I did not like about Colby? I did not like when what's his face Fashion show. What'd you say?

[Rob Cisternino]

Riz God.

[Ben Mandel]

Oh, God, I can't stand Riz God. I cannot. Please tell me he's not a real fan favorite, because I keep on saying he's a fan favorite, and I'm like,

[Rob Cisternino]

they say everybody's a fan favorite. I mean, he did a nice job. He's Ronnie. They have a guy named Riz God now.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Okay, what does he do.

[Ben Mandel]

He's, like, young and.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, he found a lot of idol or he had an idol and he didn't play it for a long time.

[Ben Mandel]

Oh, he drives me nuts. Hey, he's like. I'm sure. He's, like, a sweet kid, but nice guy.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Good God. Good God. But what? What? I don't remember who I was even talking about, but whatever fashion show. The guy who got. Why am I playing as I got medevacked out.

[Rob Cisternino]

Kyle.

[Ben Mandel]

Kyle put, like, a Survivor buff around his chest, like a. Like a halter or a crop top or something, or tube top. And Colby was like, oh, man, I don't need to see that. I was like, wait a second. I was like, I'm clocking that, Colby.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. Well, remember when he was on the tribe with Richard Hatch and Survivor All Stars?

[Ben Mandel]

Oh, my goodness. It's. I. I don't remember that. I mean, I. I watch them all, but they also, like, blur together.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes. But was he.

[Rob Cisternino]

Richard Hatch always blurred?

[Ben Mandel]

Always, always blurred. Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I mean, they actually improved blur technology for Richard Hatch. I think it actually got. They got tracking on it because you had to with that guy. Geez, man. Keep on your clothes. Keep it inside. You know, you were talking about this. Oh, I'm sorry, Ben. Go ahead.

[Ben Mandel]

No, no, you go. You go. I'm just babbling.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I was just gonna say I loved kind of the juxtaposition of the annoying people in this episode being the oldest and the newest, as far as. At least for me, because the one from season one was instantly annoying. Yes. And I just loved. It's just bossy. I wouldn't say annoying. Probably just came in there like, oh, really? You're gonna see it from season one. Missy and everyone, you know, tried to get Surya and tried to control everything and then immediately got sent packing. Love that. And I can't wait to see it kind of happen to Savannah, because I feel like Savannah is. Has got that energy, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, where she's a newer one, she's like, oh, my God, I'm new, and they don't even know anything about me. And she's kind of coming in to control the whole thing, too, so I'm liking it. Set up to be pretty interesting. Guess what I did.

[Ben Mandel]

Guess how well I did, guys. Guess how well I did. I won it all.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Oh, my God. I'm so up and down with her. Like, in some ways, I love her bratty energy. And I. And to Ronnie, her backstory is that she used. She's A news reporter, and she used to work at a newsroom, and they all hated her so much that for two years, no one would talk.

[Rob Cisternino]

They bullied her.

[Ben Mandel]

They bullied her. She was like, I was bullied in the newsroom, and I. We would talk on camera, and when the cameras were down, no one would talk to me. And she was so stressed out. And, like, that's her whole journey, was that she was bullied in the newsroom,

[Ronnie Caramen]

that she's annoying, which is not nothing.

[Ben Mandel]

Everybody at work.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I love that.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

That was.

[Rob Cisternino]

She replaced a beloved member of the team, and they froze her out.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes. That was truly her emotional arc.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Who do you think is missing from this? Because I would imagine that there are a lot of hard feelings going around. I read siree, you know, kind of dissing. Carolyn Rob is right here.

[Ben Mandel]

Ronnie Rob is right here.

[Ronnie Caramen]

No, I know. Well, obviously.

[Rob Cisternino]

Obviously, all of the show, those are missing. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

So who do you think is. Who do you think really got shafted on not getting invited?

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, Carolyn was somebody who was like the. One of the loftiest locks to come back. And then she went and did the traders, and then they seem to really take exception to the fact that she did the traders, even though siree did the traders. Stephanie. To the traders. But it seems like that they didn't like that Carolyn did the traders and didn't talk to them first about going back and doing that. And then Amanda Kimmel was somebody who was supposed to be in the mix and then ultimately didn't end up coming back. Jerry Manthy really wanted to come back, and she was gutted when she didn't ultimately get the call. But to speak to your point, Ben, about not having anybody from the middle, I would have loved to have seen Malcolm come back where I feel like that he was somebody who had unfinished business from the last time that he played.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. I mean, wow. You know who I would have loved to have come back? Mainly because I. At the very least, I could have just looked at him would have been James. Why? I was shocked that James was not in the mix. Yeah. Where is James these days? I feel like we never see any.

[Rob Cisternino]

We never see him. I think he came out at the season 36 finale where they brought back the. The. Some of the idols that got misplayed. And so they brought him back at the reunion for Survivor 36 with Eric Reichenbach, but that's the last time he's been seen on Survivor.

[Ben Mandel]

You know who I think would have been great? I feel like we don't talk enough about Fabio Like, Fabio is just one of the most random winners of this show and he was such a bizarre creature. Like, he should have just been in there. That would have been hilarious.

[Rob Cisternino]

So they started and they said, okay, we have no winners. We're not bringing back any winners. And they didn't bring back any of the older winners. But then from the new seasons, they brought back three winners. So I don't know why they changed that very late in the game because that's why they were like, okay, that's why Boston Rob's not here or Parvity or Tony or Sandra. We just did a all winner season. So we're not bringing any of those people back. But then, like, right at the end they're like, I'll bring back some of the winners.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Rob Cisternino]

The people that just won, they'll bring them back.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, yeah. Like D and Kyle and a fresh million.

[Rob Cisternino]

Savannah.

[Ben Mandel]

Savannah, Remember?

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Also, you know, from the new era. As long as they're plucking from the new era. There was also that. I'm sorry, I'm really bad with the names. Like, definitely when a Survivor season or Big Brother season ends that's tucked away in a zip file and I have

[Ronnie Caramen]

to like, well, you're with a wiki. Yeah, Just ask.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, but the season when there was like the pastor. She was a pastor, but she was. So, yeah, she would have been a great choice.

[Rob Cisternino]

She would have been really good. She was a villain in that season and the whole season she was like really, like propped up as like the main character. But I. I don't know if whatever happened, if there was like any falling out or whatever reason, they didn't bring her back.

[Ronnie Caramen]

How many times have they brought back Susan, the trucker from season one?

[Rob Cisternino]

So she. Well, she only came back one time for Survivor All Stars, but she is, of course an icon.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Bring me some. Susan. Isn't it crazy to tell some people off?

[Ben Mandel]

Isn't it crazy to think there's been 705 people?

[Rob Cisternino]

51.

[Ben Mandel]

751. That's. That's just a wild number of people to go through it all. I would love to have a season of all first people voted off because there's some really amazing. They're cast for a reason. They're interesting people. Let's get them all on there and like, like give someone a chance to go from having been voted off first to getting all the way to the end.

[Rob Cisternino]

You could do it. I mean, there's some story there in the people that. I mean, obviously you like them enough to have them on the show once so you could do a season about it. I think that it would be good to do. They always do three tribes do one tribe of first boots. Because I'm not sure if you have 18 great first boots that people would remember, but you definitely have sex. Okay.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. You can scratch up six, huh?

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

So because you guys are more familiar with all of these people who came back, that is changed at all. Did it? Who's the most changed? Did anybody actually come back as a different version of themselves?

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, Ozzy is trying to be a different. He's going to be Oscar now instead of just regular Ozzy.

[Ronnie Caramen]

So that sideburns really high now, guys.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yes.

[Ben Mandel]

Crazy. He looks crazy now. I'm sorry. He's got. Actually, he has inherited the hair of a former Survivor contestant whose name eludes me, but you know who I'm talking about.

[Rob Cisternino]

Jambo.

[Ben Mandel]

Jambo, yeah. He has Jambo's hair now. Like, that hair. I'm sorry, I can't.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Okay, so Ozzy. That's a good one. So who else?

[Rob Cisternino]

Colby. The last time he played was. Was, like, cranky and joyless, and now he is this new person that's like, I'm gonna appreciate every day that I'm out here because every. Every morning, I thank God for two things. Number one, that I'm alive. Number two, that I'm on Survivor, and number three, tops.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, sorry, man.

[Rob Cisternino]

As long as I see any guys wearing a. A tube top, halter top, bikini, that's

[Ben Mandel]

a bridge too far.

[Ronnie Caramen]

He was cracking me up because you can tell he's trying to be positive, but he just can't do it. He's like, this kid won't shut.

[Rob Cisternino]

He's annoying.

[Ben Mandel]

This kid needs to go.

[Ronnie Caramen]

How are we gonna get rid of him? And then a few minutes, you know, a few hours later in the premiere,

[Rob Cisternino]

he's like, I'm your dad now.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, I'm your dad. And he's like, oh, my God, thank you so much, because I love my dad so much. He's like, okay, I regret that one.

[Ben Mandel]

Angelina's trying to change. So, Ronnie, the Angelina season. Angelina was hilarious because she just lacked any self awareness. And they showed a clip of it, Ronnie.

[Rob Cisternino]

But.

[Ben Mandel]

But like this. She basically was part of this woman getting voted off, who then had a cameo on the White Lotus, I'd like to add. And. And then as this woman's getting voted off, Angelina's like, it's really cold. Can I. Can I have your jacket before you leave? Can I have your jacket? Your jacket it's like you, like, how dare you ask me this right now. Yeah, but she's trying to be like, now, like, I'm aware I'm a mother now. I understand things.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah.

[Rob Cisternino]

Speaking of people, who's changed, My Mike White is changed that he is ripped now.

[Ben Mandel]

I know.

[Ronnie Caramen]

That was crazy. I was not expecting that at all. Yeah. I watched, Watched his season. I was shocked.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, he was. He's ripped now. I feel like he's gonna last a long time because I think everyone wants to get a part in the next White Lotus, Right? I think there's like a. There's a meta there where it's like, well, I don't want to be mean to Mike. I want him to get to know me long enough. So that way he wants to put on that show.

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, he always puts somebody from Survivor in the seasons.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. I remember the first season. I was like, wait, isn't that guy looks so familiar. Wait a second. I think he was on Survivor.

[Rob Cisternino]

Alec Merino.

[Ben Mandel]

Yes. Alec, do you have you had Mike White on your show?

[Rob Cisternino]

So I. There was one time and I. It was one of the more famous moments in the history of Robin's podcast because Mike White reamed me out.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, no. Why?

[Ben Mandel]

Why?

[Rob Cisternino]

Because I was an. I. I have to, I have to take ownership of.

[Ben Mandel]

Judge of that.

[Rob Cisternino]

So back in, in, you know, Mike White famously, many, many great films, School of Rock and. And many others. But in 2017, the movie, the Emoji Movie came out and we like, made like a lot of like, we were goofing on the Emoji movie at that time, and Mike White had done like some rewrites on the Emoji movie. And then when his season, his original season was on, I, I on occasion would ask guests like, hey, what do you think of Mike White's movies? I was like, hey, what do you think of the emoji movie? And that he. When I got to talk to him, and also he felt like I didn't give him enough credit for his game, which is also fair. He played a really good game and I didn't highlight it enough. But he also didn't get featured. You know, his game wasn't like really obvious in the edit it and so he really, like, laid into me and that said that he, you know, it's a hilarious interview, but nobody on the exit interview has really come in hot like that.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Wow.

[Ben Mandel]

Well, listen, the emoji, I'm sure now

[Ronnie Caramen]

he can kick my ass too, just with his abs.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, now he can. And you know what? Look, he wrote a movie. Look, he has. He wrote a movie that has 6% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[Rob Cisternino]

My kids love it.

[Ben Mandel]

You know what I think my friend wrote was also a writer on it, now that I'm saying it. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I'm really rooting for these two ladies just to watch their relationship, because it was cracking me up. Aubrey and Genevieve, their whole relationship of just. Both of them are just staring at each other, wasn't it? It was Aubrey and someone else. I think it was Genevieve, wasn't it? Staring at each other, and they're like, yeah, well, like, I could trust you. Okay, well, I could trust you. And then it cuts like, I don't trust that bitch. I'm gonna take her down.

[Rob Cisternino]

I really like that. That was like Housewives.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, it was.

[Ronnie Caramen]

And Aubrey's got such a dark energy about her. I only know her from this episode, but I loved her dark. Her darkness. So I'm gonna be an Aubrey acolyte for now.

[Ben Mandel]

Aubrey is great, but I love Genevieve. I just love. I love a cold, smart woman, and she just, like the way she. The way she just, like, maneuvered through her season. She was just so great. She was, like, cold and corporate, and I just loved her.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I'm.

[Ben Mandel]

I'm worried that she's not gonna make it that far this season because people are like, you know, they have their eyes out of her. You know, they're scared of her. But I just think that she's was. She's great. I was so happy that she was included in this.

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, Ronnie, one of the other things that people do a lot now on Survivor is if you're a lawyer, you have to pretend you're something else. And now she was one of the secret lawyers, and now they really know she's a lawyer.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, can't have a lawyer. Well, I just like that. I think it should get her some points that she's being played by Toni Collette. I mean, I would think that people would, like, automatically be like, oh, my God, I love you, Muriel.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

What do you think? I know. Seriously, what do you think about this twist of in the hands of the people?

[Rob Cisternino]

I think it was a good idea, but I think that they didn't really give the fans that much to actually vote on. Like, it was very specific things, and a lot of the options were worded in a way that it was clear what they wanted the outcome to be, and they didn't really let the fans vote on too many things that people. People really cared about. Like, let there be. Should there be two tribes or three tribes? Should there be a final two or a final three? And like, there were. I wish there was more things that we were actually voting on that people cared about.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. It feels kind of, like, superficial. And also, it's like, will there be no idols or tons of idols? And of course, the fans are always going to choose the hard option. They're going to choose the idols and everything like that, which is fine. But I agree. I feel like. Like it's not. It's not very impactful. And what I hate is that Jeff is like, but this season, I'm not doing anything because it's in the hands of the fans. So the fans have voted, and they decided they want you to win an Outback steak because you know that's coming. It's like, you're going to go to the sanctuary. Are they going to win a steak from Outback or a pizza from Domino's? It's like, which corporate branding will the fans vote for? Yeah, you know, it just feels a little over. Overwrought. I all, well.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, go ahead.

[Ben Mandel]

I'm sorry, Ronnie. Do we know if the fans got to vote on any of the competitions?

[Rob Cisternino]

They got to vote on what the final four competition was gonna be because

[Ben Mandel]

I have to say, I'm getting also a little. I'm getting some. Some competition on we. I feel like it's sort of. Of getting into a. We're going up a.

[Rob Cisternino]

What's the emoji for on we? They were inside out.

[Ben Mandel]

I want to get blacklisted by Mike White.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Okay. It's just abs.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, just abs. But I do kind of feel like it's a Grab something. Go. Go under. Go under some beams into the mud, Go up a ramp.

[Ronnie Caramen]

They aren't impressive, though, like, how they had to go under those logs and then dig a hole under and on the other side, you know, I kind of like them because you have to think, like, how would I dig it? It? You. I would never dig it. I would die. I would just die.

[Ben Mandel]

But I would give up just watching,

[Ronnie Caramen]

like, one of them just reached over and was, like, doing this, like, kind of swimming through it, which I thought was kind of cool. But, yeah, there's just. There's only so many, you know, ramps and. And pulley things you can do for whatever reason.

[Rob Cisternino]

There's less variety in terms of the types of challenges that they would do. Like, for a long time on Survivor, they'd be like, okay, and now there's wrestling and now there's. You know, this was, you Know, one on one competition and, and really everything in the pre merge is some type of a race and then everything in the post merge is like, okay, get ready and stand still for as long as possible.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

The endurance challenges. This is just a Ben thing. I hate endurance challenges on reality tv. They stress me out. But also it is just standing around but that. But largely I just get stressed out when it comes time for Big Brother to have the them stand on a wall and, and like lean over. I'm always like holding on to things.

[Ronnie Caramen]

The Big Brother classic hold on to a phallic. Hold on to a phallic object. You know, it's like a flinging hot dog or whatever.

[Rob Cisternino]

I want more.

[Ben Mandel]

You know, I would love to see. I, I don't. Honestly, I don't mind obviously if we have a mix of all these things, but it post merge there are so many endurance challenges that they just sort of become all the same to me and I just like a mix. Like I love the auction when it comes up. The first food auction and they once had a, a challenge that I absolutely adored which is that they had to like all get onto this platform in the water and there was like not enough room for everyone. And so like if one wrong move and everyone would fall off the platform. And so you never really knew which which group of people was really which team was going to. To win. And I liked that as a nice change up. But like the, the obstacle course thing, I'm. I'm just sort of getting a little. A little over it. I'm like, I feel like there's so many interesting things, puzzles out there and interesting ways to have competition that I would love to sort of see some more variety

[Rob Cisternino]

for sure that they're really.

[Ben Mandel]

Can you fix that for us, please?

[Rob Cisternino]

Listen one, right now we're gonna complain about the same things every single season. That's one of the things with the new era where that in the old days of Survivor there used to be a lot more novelty and variety of like, okay, this season we're doing this. This season we're doing this. And I know that they're stuck in Fiji for, you know, a variety of budgetary reasons, but it's almost like at this point in Survivors history, they're like, we figured out what the show is every season we're gonna do. It's. It's this, it's this, it's this, it's this, is this. Like, well, can you change it? Like, no, we, this is how we do it now. Dictionary.

[Ben Mandel]

Can we do Dictionary I mean, it's

[Rob Cisternino]

like, well, what about. Could you have like. Like, what if you have like this versus this? Like, no, Every season is the next number. That's it. We decided this is. This is the show now.

[Ben Mandel]

And now like that. And now the challenges. Not only are they not really changing the challenges as much now, some of the challenges have built in their own kind of mythology. Like in this season, Kelly, Kelly so and so went. And she. She did this in 35 seconds. Can you beat that record? So now there's, like, lore behind the challenges, which is kind of funny, which I actually. I don't mind that. I actually like that the show is not afraid to break that fourth wall, but I'm like, let's just, like, fix it. I. I feel like there was a new challenge, like, last season. They, like, sprung a new challenge on us. We're like, whoa, a new challenge?

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, it's exciting. If they have a new challenge and it's fine. But that they also like. But they make the challenges easier also.

[Ben Mandel]

Or.

[Rob Cisternino]

Or I should say they make them like, harder so that they last like eight minutes as opposed to that. There used to be on Survivor you'd have these endurance challenges and they go for hours and hours and hours and like, ah, that's boring. Just make it so hard that the challenge only lasts for five minutes. We got stuff to do. Like, we're not gonna sit around here all day and watch this for five minutes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

We're gonna have an endurance competition. So let's see who can endure getting hit over the head multiple times with a cast iron skill.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Okay, one of you. Okay, great. Everyone else is knocked out on the ground. We are done. Let's. All right, where do you think this season is going to go? Let's do some predictions for the final. What do you want to do? Final three.

[Rob Cisternino]

Three. Okay.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Okay. Let's say final three. Rob, you go first.

[Rob Cisternino]

Go first. Wow.

[Ronnie Caramen]

So I can copy all of your choices.

[Rob Cisternino]

Copy all. All of my choices. So I'm trying to think of I'll. Joe. And let's say Joe, Tiffany is my winner pick. Even though Ronnie doesn't know who she is. And then

[Ronnie Caramen]

I don't have to know things. If we could only talk about things, I know we'd have a very, very short show though, so don't worry about that.

[Rob Cisternino]

And Jonathan.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Okay. And Tiffany for the win. Okay, Gotcha. Ben, go for it.

[Ben Mandel]

It's hard to say because I'm like, trying to think of who seemed like they might be getting a winner's edit, but like, to the credit of Survivor, I think the thing that is so amazing about the show is they've become so sophisticated with their edits that I don't think people. It's. It's hard to determine the winner's edit versus the difference of, like, who is getting the act one of the season edit. I also, for some reason, Tiffany was on my radar as well. But, like, you know what I'm gonna say? I'm gonna say in the top three, I'm gonna put Emily flippin. Even though she's totally bonkers. But I just, for some reason I see her kind of like bonking up to the top three.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I like her.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, she's great. I love her.

[Ronnie Caramen]

She's a real. Is she the one that's like, nobody really wanted to talk to me the first time, but now it's. Things are different. Is that her?

[Ben Mandel]

Yes. The first. Her first.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Thank you. I really vibed with her energy.

[Rob Cisternino]

She was.

[Ronnie Caramen]

She just got so happy when that guy started talking to her. She said, yeah, someone's talking to me.

[Ben Mandel]

You would have loved her first season. She constantly had these, like, emotional breakdowns because no one liked her. And then she had these emo. Because of her emotional breakdowns, people just continued to not like her. I'm gonna say Mike White because everyone wants to be on White Lotus.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Sure. Yeah. That's a good one. Okay. And

[Ben Mandel]

this is hard. Where does it. A third one? Let's say Chrissy Hoffbeck.

[Rob Cisternino]

Oh, okay. Chris, Mike. Chrissy. And who was the third?

[Ronnie Caramen]

Emily. Mike.

[Rob Cisternino]

Emily. Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, I. I'm just gonna go with people that I want to see because you never know on these. On these games, especially in the beginning. So I'm gonna say Aubrey Suri.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

And the guy who does the news, just because Rick Devin cracks me up, he's like. And then it gets really serious. But he's always got that dad. He's always got that dad.

[Ben Mandel]

Like, I'm just so glad to be here.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Let's murder that motherfucker. You know, it's kind of an edge to him. Like, I believe maybe he's killed somebody. And so he's kind of my dark horse. And I'll say siree only because I think it would be so difficult. I think it would be an uphill battle. But I believe in her, so I'm going to say her.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. I can't tell. Does she have a massive target on her back or do people. Is there ever a sense of like, man, she is so good. I don't want to be the one to destroy her journey. Journey this time.

[Rob Cisternino]

Well, that's what Jenna Lewis tried to do, that she needed to take her out. But I think that there's a little bit of, like, the same sort of thing with Donna Kelsey where people are like, oh, do we want to get the fans mad at us and take her out? People love Surrey.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah. I was. By the way, I was sad to see Jenna go, only because I was like, man, it's been 26 years. She comes onto the beach for, like, one day, and then she's gone. Like, right away, I was like, that is. That was so mean of everyone. I. I'm sorry.

[Rob Cisternino]

I know.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Too hard, though. She came right on. Like, all right, siree. We're getting her. We're getting her. She up the competition. I'm like, well, you're all going to up a competition. You had to throw a stone on a rope through a little V. You know, who can do that?

[Ben Mandel]

No, actually, I've got. I've got one last question. I know we're sort of trying to wrap up, and we. For all intents and purposes, we should be wrapping up, but I'm opening it back up again.

[Ronnie Caramen]

We're trying to apologize.

[Ben Mandel]

I'm being a bad, bad podcaster. But, Rob, you did come back on an All Star season, and in the season that you were on, you were like. I mean, you did.

[Rob Cisternino]

You.

[Ronnie Caramen]

You.

[Ben Mandel]

You. You got extremely far. You were just, like, doing all sorts of amazing stuff on it. But then in the All Star season, you did not last very long.

[Rob Cisternino]

That's right.

[Ben Mandel]

So what was like coming into an All Star season like this in season 50? What's different? What's different when you come in there? Well, and that these players should hopefully have been paid. Paying attention to.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. And it's a great question. The time that I came back, I played on Survivor All Stars, which was season eight, but nobody had ever been on an All Star season of a show before. You didn't really know what it was going to be like. Now everybody is like, these grizzled veterans that have been back. It's my fifth time playing, so people are like, I'm, you know, I'm coming in with my game plan. But it's like, hey, either this. This person's my friend. I can't vote them out. And that's why Boston Rob did so well. He was the only person that was willing to like, hey, I don't care.

[Ben Mandel]

I'm gonna.

[Rob Cisternino]

I'm gonna screw up everybody I've ever met and find my Wife. So it was. I think it was. It was complicated. The feelings about, like, wait, are we friends or is this a game? Whereas everybody's, like, very clear what. This is cool.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah. Coming in. Ready to rip each other on this one. I like it.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah, they're ready.

[Ben Mandel]

We. Maybe we should. Maybe we should circle back midway through the season and see how all our. Our predictions, our hot takes are, you know, because it's so fun to talk with you, and it is really cool. It is. It is cool. The shared experience, like, the three of us were in the midst of the reality TV.

[Rob Cisternino]

We've seen it all.

[Ben Mandel]

20 years. We've seen it all.

[Ronnie Caramen]

We've been there.

[Ben Mandel]

We've been there.

[Ronnie Caramen]

We've been there since the old days. Rob, so great to talk to you.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yes, yes, yes. This is really, really fun. Yeah. We're not washed. Okay. Let's let the record show.

[Ben Mandel]

We're not washed.

[Rob Cisternino]

We're not cooked.

[Ben Mandel]

No, no, we are.

[Rob Cisternino]

We still got it.

[Ben Mandel]

Still bringing heat for old times. Remember back in the day, Johnny Fam.

[Rob Cisternino]

Remember that? When Johnny Fairplay got slammed by Danny Bonaduce?

[Ben Mandel]

Sure do. Yeah. Sure do.

[Rob Cisternino]

Were you there that night? I was.

[Ronnie Caramen]

I was there when Perez Hilton got punched. Were you with that one?

[Rob Cisternino]

No. Who punched Hilton?

[Ben Mandel]

I think like that.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, it was.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. I mean, he probably should have gotten punched a lot more. He was, like, drawing, like, wieners on all these people's faces.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, he got punched at that award show. And I was hanging out with Johnny Bananas that night, who I loved back in that. In that.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

And we were. He was wasted, of course, but we were just cracking up. And he was just kind of being. He came out just looking like, tweet, tweet, tweet. Like literal birds around his head. And people were booing him on the way out. I was. I was kind of proud of our culture that night.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah, I. I remember going to one of those FOX Reality Awards, and China the wrestler was.

[Rob Cisternino]

Oh, yeah. Next to me.

[Ben Mandel]

And then New York was there, and Jeff Conway came on stage because he was doing a lot of the VH1 stuff. And then there was just. It was. You know, it was a time. It was a time to be alive.

[Ronnie Caramen]

It was a time.

[Rob Cisternino]

It was the time.

[Ben Mandel]

It was a time.

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

It was a special.

[Ronnie Caramen]

All right, well, everybody find. Rob has a podcast. Wherever you get your podcast. What's your personal insta.

[Rob Cisternino]

Rob Cisternino.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Oh, there you go. I keep it simple, too. Mine's Ronnie Caramen. Ben Mandel. You see, we all did it, right, guys?

[Rob Cisternino]

Keep it right. Yes.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Because back.

[Rob Cisternino]

Back when we started, it wasn't hard to get your real name.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, when we blogged, we had fake names because we were like, we're serious artists, and we don't want to be known as TV Thirsty.

[Ben Mandel]

A couple of years, I wanted to be a TV writer, and I was afraid that if I was blogging that it would get in the way of me having gainful employment as a television writer. So I was like, I have an alias.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Has that been proven wrong for any of us? Yeah.

[Ben Mandel]

And the writing never really happened.

[Rob Cisternino]

Never happened.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Playing. Yeah, look at us now. But, yeah, who needs it?

[Rob Cisternino]

Yeah. Maybe Mike White could read a script of yours.

[Ben Mandel]

I know now that I've. Now that I've shaded the emoji movie out of solidarity with you, you know, I did.

[Rob Cisternino]

That was my writing career. Leave Ben alone. Put him on the White Lotus.

[Ben Mandel]

Mike White was like, you know what that guy. This guy's pretty funny. That podcast. I should put him in the White list. Wait a second. He backed up Rob Cerno.

[Ronnie Caramen]

He's got a Google alert platform.

[Rob Cisternino]

Rob Cisternino. So he's out.

[Ben Mandel]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caramen]

All right, Rob. Thanks so much, everybody. Thanks for being here. We'll talk to you next time.

[Ben Mandel]

Bye, everyone.

[Ronnie Caramen]

Bye.

[Ben Mandel]

Watch what Crappins would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Allison King.

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Our way is the Amber way Way.

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It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's always automatic with Ashley Auto. Put your hands together for Carly Clapp.

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It's Amanda V. Can I have a Kavanaugh? It's Anna Kavanagh. Somebody get us 10cc's of Betsy MD

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we're taking the gold with Brenda Silva.

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Let's get real with Caitlin o'.

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Neal. Put us on a stretcher. It's Charlotte Fletcher. Hogle your horses. It's Christine Hogel. Don't get salty with Christine Pepper can't have a meal without the Emily Sides.

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Who, what, why, where? And Gwen Pentland. Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall. We got our wish. It's Jen Plish. My Favorite Murdo Karen McMurdo She's a

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total knockout It's Katie Manock.

[Ben Mandel]

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[Ronnie Caramen]

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[Ben Mandel]

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we cannot tell a lie It's Sarah

[Ben Mandel]

Talafson Shannon out of a can and Anthony Please don't stop it's solely and pop let's take off with Tamla plane Strike a pose.

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[Ben Mandel]

And tick tock and contradas Short dramas

[Rob Cisternino]

emotionalis Rapidos y difficiles dejar Descarga TikTok Aura. And TikTok Encountramas emocionales rapidosi Dificiles de dejar Descarga TikTok Ahora estobali TikTok shop Tiajuda de escubri Productos de buen valorio Fertas sorpresa Rapido simbusque Das interminables solo Buenas compras Descarga TikTok Aurora.