#3367 Southern Hospitality S4E11: Drama in the DR

Summary

Podcast Summary: Watch What Crappens #3367

Episode: Southern Hospitality S4E11: Drama in the DR
Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Ben Mandelker & Ronnie Karam

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Episode Overview

Ben and Ronnie dive into a pivotal episode of Southern Hospitality (Season 4, Episode 11), where the Punta Cana vacation wraps up in classic Bravo style—full of high-stakes dinner-table confrontations, emotional reckonings, microaggression discourse, and the fallout from an ongoing feud between Emmy, Michaels, and the group. The hosts mock, praise, and dissect every awkward moment with their signature mix of snark and pop-culture reverence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Post-Church Charades

• The hosts recap how, after a moving church day, the group almost immediately reverts to squabbling.
• Ben recalls: “[The cast] found inner peace and thought about deeper things in life and then immediately abandoned those lessons to get into more squabbles.” (03:01)

2. Maddie’s DJ Nerves and Starfish Fashion

• Ronnie and Ben riff on Maddie’s anxiety about DJing for the first time in months, and her questionable starfish jewelry.
  • Ronnie jokes: “Are you going to be doing a Golden Girl set? Why are you wearing giant starfishes all over you?” (04:34)
• This segues into affectionate mockery of Maddie’s style and group support for her big night.

3. Major Drama: Emmy, Michaels & Public Accountability

• The dinner table becomes ground zero for unresolved issues — namely, Michaels' continued anger at Emmy for microaggressions and the group’s pressure for reconciliation.
• Standout moment: Michaels stages a phone-free dinner to force focused interaction (07:22).
• Emmy feels targeted after being excluded from Michaels' church outing (“...it was also a passive aggressive way for me to get at Emmy.” – Ben as Michaels, 10:50).
• Emmy tries to defend herself, but the group repeatedly calls out her lack of self-awareness and tendency to make everything about her.
  • Quote: “You just lack, like, self-awareness...the other night you and I had a conversation, but you made it all about yourself.” (Michaels, 17:56)

Notable Exchange:

• Emmy’s Dramatic Declaration: “My outfit's honestly a great representation because… I let you walk all over me.” (Emmy, 11:29)
• The hosts lampoon Emmy’s “sand and fishnet” analogy, suggesting snarky alternative outfits (bear trap, broken glass) to resist being walked over (12:22).

4. Group Dynamics and Failed Apologies

• The cast’s attempts to force conversations and apologies continually devolve.
• Ronnie observes: “She’s just incapable...she’s being so over the top with her. And, like, Mia just cannot stop laughing. Julia cannot stop laughing.” (27:47)
• Ben and Ronnie question why it’s on Michaels to keep educating Emmy or hashing it out:
  • “At a certain point, Emmy just has to do the work, and it’s not up to Michaels to babysit her the entire time.” (Ben, 23:51)

Key Quotes & Moments:

• Ronnie: “It's like beating your head against a wall, basically. So anyway, he's like, okay, then you. You can speak, Emmy. I'll listen to you.” (26:36)
• Emmy in tears, feeling picked on: "I'm like, just this, like, easy pigeon for people to, like, pick off of me, you know?” (Emmy, 32:52)
• Group laughter at Emmy’s dramatics, set against the reality of her actions and words.

5. Side Drama & New Revelations

• The group cheers Maddie’s gig, despite lingering tension.
• Molly and Emmy bond over shared grievances against Michaels, and a new accusation surfaces that Michaels may have contributed to Molly’s firing—contradicting his previous denials (39:11).
  • This storyline is met with skepticism by the hosts, who question Emmy's reliability and Molly’s motivation.

6. Grace Lilly’s Return: Tarot, Sobriety, and More Muddled Feuds

• Grace hosts tarot readings at Zach’s Daiquiri Deck, and we see her attempt to reconnect with Maddie.
• The reconciliation quickly breaks down over conflicting accounts of Grace’s sobriety and a past incident where Maddie cared for an intoxicated Grace (61:30).
  • Maddie: “You've been up for two days and you relapse...during the Ozzy Osbourne marathon.” (Maddie, 63:03)
• The hosts note the sadness of Grace’s real-world struggles and how her “journey” with sobriety continues to let down friends and herself.

7. Final Thoughts on the Cast’s Maturity and Plotlines

• Ronnie and Ben agree Michaels has grown somewhat, handling blowups with more patience—but they also call out his occasional immaturity (45:09).
• The lack of alternate storylines—beyond the central Emmy-Michaels saga—is highlighted as both a frustration and a reality-tv inevitability.
• Ben: “I think they just need to stop hanging out with her, because...she’s never gonna admit to [her role in the conflict].” (25:04)

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Are you going to be doing a Golden Girl set? Why are you wearing giant starfishes all over you?”
  – Ronnie Karam, 04:34

• “My outfit’s honestly a great representation because...I let you walk all over me.”
  – Emmy, 11:29

• “Why wouldn’t you dress like a broom, you know, cleaning up the sand?”
  – Ronnie Karam, 12:17

• “At a certain point, Emmy just has to do the work, and it’s not up to Michaels to babysit her the entire time.”
  – Ben Mandelker, 23:51

• “If she can’t take responsibility or do whatever, just put her on timeout. Get rid of her.”
  – Ronnie Karam, 20:53

• “She’s just incapable...she’s being so over the top with her. And, like, Mia just cannot stop laughing.”
  – Ronnie Karam, 27:47

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Post-church recap & beach drama setup – 03:01
• Starfish jewelry riff & Maddie’s anxiety – 04:34
• Dinner table showdowns and phone confiscation – 07:22–11:12
• Emmy’s sand/fishnet analogy & group takedown – 11:29–13:34
• Breakdown of failed apologies and Emmy/Michaels feud – 14:49–19:44
• Dissection of microaggressions & accountability talk – 20:29–23:51
• Group reflects on repeated, unresolved Emmy drama – 25:04–27:27
• Side drama: Molly’s firing revelation and group’s skepticism – 39:11–41:45
• Grace Lilly’s tarot readings, sobriety dispute with Maddie – 52:02–63:24

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Host Commentary and Tone

As always, Ben and Ronnie approach the content with affectionate sarcasm and pop-culture savvy. They offer sensitive analysis around social issues (microaggressions, sobriety), but never shy away from lampooning reality TV’s most over-the-top moments. Their impressions of cast members, pointed jokes, and group therapy-style breakdowns provide both levity and insight.

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Episode Takeaways

• The Emmy-Michaels conflict reveals deep fissures about accountability, self-awareness, and how not to mend fences on reality TV.
• The group’s constant circling of unfinished drama is both exasperating and the main source of narrative momentum this season.
• Maddie’s performance, Grace Lilly’s complicated journey, and new alliances (Molly + Emmy) round out the episode, while the hosts question whether anyone is truly learning—or just playing their assigned Bravo roles.

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For fans of Bravo, group drama, and sharp podcast recaps, this episode offers a comprehensive, satirical deep-dive into one of the juiciest “friendship breakups” this season. And as always, Ben and Ronnie mock because they love.

Transcript

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[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what happens. Who cares what happens when there's so much. That happens? Hello and welcome to Watch what Crap ins a podcast about all that crap on Bravo we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker and joining me today is the glorious and charming Ronnie Caram. Hi Ronnie, how's it going?

[Ronnie Caram]

Well hello,

[Ben Mandelker]

welcome to your podcast. We are just a few weeks away from our big cabaret Forbidden Housewives that's gonna be in New York City. It's sold out but you can get tickets to stream it. You can, you can stream the whole show. Go to the link. It's on our website, it's on our social media and watch along with this madness. We'll see how this all turns out, but it's gonna be crazy. We're looking forward to that. Also, join us on Patreon for bonus episodes. We did a trailer trash of the latest McBee trailer and we also have a newsletter and we have ad free listening and crap is on demand where you can watch. So go to patreon.com watch what crappens. Today we are talking Southern hospitality. Season 4 Episode 11 this beach is crazy. The kids are going to be wrapping up their Punta Cana trip and where we last left off, they went to church. Michael took a bunch of them to church where they found inner peace and thought about deeper things in life and then immediately abandoned those lessons to get into more squabbles today.

[Ronnie Caram]

Michaels is like, I felt so empowered leaving the church. I was like, wow. Like, I was looking for a spiritual calling. And I don't want to sound like Grace Lilly, but I really felt my grandma's presence in there. Is your grandma Bob Marley? Because no, you're not Grace Lily, don't worry about it. You're fine. Hi, y'. All.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, yeah, like, Lake's like, yeah. You know, you feel at home. You feel at peace. I'm like, so proud of you. He's like, thank you. So now they're gonna have a dinner tonight. And so they all get back and everything and they're like, getting ready. And Maddie has some starfish earrings. So Joe's like, wow, I like your earrings. It's. And I. A starfish? Yeah, my starfish earrings. Joe, can I ask you, like, what necklace should I wear? I have a starfish one. Wow, you have starfish earrings on a necklace. That's like a lot.

[Ronnie Caram]

Are you going to be doing a Golden Girl set? Why are you wearing giant starfishes all over you?

[Ben Mandelker]

We have a silver dollar option. Sand dollar.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's crazy.

[Ben Mandelker]

They're like, huge.

[Ronnie Caram]

Miami, old lady starfish necklace and matching earrings. That's the heavy ears. The woman has very strong earlobes. I'll say. That sounds like. Yeah, you know, I was going to say that one. Yeah. So that's when I was going to pick starfish. That's really good. Okay. Joe, you know, I haven't DJed in like, months, and like, the whole time I'm just thinking about, like, you know, like, you got a gig. You got a gig. So it's like, so hard because I'm just thinking like, oh, my God, what if I press play and music doesn't start? Or like, you know, like, I'm like, here's the music. But then it doesn't come on. Like, what's going to happen? This is so much pressure.

[Ben Mandelker]

So hard pressing play. So Joe's like, you got this. Don't worry about it. Like, okay. Like, you know, like, I got her back. And man's like, I just. I get my head, and it's, like, really hard to get out of my head. So I'll be, like, thinking about how anxious and nervous I am until the gig is over. Like, I can't wait. I just have to press play. So he's like, it's okay. You're all right. Oh, you smell. It's Joe. It's dry shampoo, Joe. God, get with it.

[Ronnie Caram]

So now Charlie and Justin are FaceTiming, and he's like, you look good. The slick back's eating right now.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, yeah, well, look, I'm breaking out all over. Where? Right where your beard was. Because, like, your beer. It's like, oh, my God. It's like, crazy. Oh, my God. Like, I don't know what to do. I don't want to. I'm afraid. I'm afraid to tell people. I don't want everyone to know. Okay, we got to keep it secret.

[Ronnie Caram]

So now tj, Justin's. Justin hangs up. And then he presses. And then he goes, love you. And teacher's like, I am dead. I think I love her, though. Shut up. So the producer's like, did you purposely wait until she was gone to say I love you? And he's like, yeah, I feel like I don't want to scare her, you know, like, maybe it's too soon on FaceTime, but, God, I haven't. I feel like I haven't said I love you to anybody too soon. You know, It's a thing. And they're like, well, how many girls have you said, I love you, too? And he's like, honestly, like, probably, like, close to, like, 40 women. Are we counting that girl from behind the bar? What was her name? Ruse. Are we counting Ruse? Yeah, a lot of women. A lot of.

[Ben Mandelker]

I love women. I love them a lot. So now in Julia and Brad's room, they're getting ready, and he's, like, so glad that she can be there, even for just 24 hours. And then they talk about pants. And Brad's like, whenever you're on vacation, you don't have your partner with you. It just feels like something's a little bit off. So it's nice to have the other half. And by the way, since Emmy didn't say anything to You. I guess this would be now be a better good time to greet her, because, like, maybe she at least acknowledged your presence. She's like, whatever. I hate the. But yeah. So Emmy did not say hi to Julia when she initially showed up.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So now everybody goes to dinner, and Michael's is like, we actually have a rule before dinner starts tonight. Okay, Give me your phones. No one gets to have their phones. So he stacks up everybody's phones and takes them away. I don't know that I'd be at this dinner, especially with these people. You might need to call for help.

[Ben Mandelker]

No, it's gonna be very important. Like, we're not gonna be distracted. So that way we can all see me get upset at Emmy. So Brad is like, okay, no phones.

[Ronnie Caram]

Whoa.

[Ben Mandelker]

And they're like. He's just like, by the way, how was the beach? Looks like, you guys, I got some sun and Bella's, like, so fun. I loved it. Wait, who are you? Why are you at our table? Who is this person?

[Ronnie Caram]

Bella? Okay, everybody. Well, welcome. Julia. We're sad you missed the past few days. Okay. But we're, like, happy to have you, by the way. Everybody just claps except Emmy. Okay. We could have taken pictures of that with our phones, but I didn't let you keep them. Okay. So we're happy to have you for the last supper of our trip. Because it's last supper. We went to church today. I'm gonna say the last supper a lot today because I'm sticking with the theme.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so then Michaels is asking, have you spoken to Grace, by the way, Maddie? And Matt is, like, even seen her since Girls night. But I feel like she's, like, taking, like, the right steps. That's like. I'm really proud of her. And then later on, I'm going to say that she's not taking the right steps. So Lake is like, yeah, she's addressing that. There's, like, a problem, and that's, like, the difference. I'm like. I mean, it's like, well, what's going on? Like, the. Isn't that the first step? Like, I don't know, the nine steps or whatever. Yeah, the nine steps.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's not like the first step. Like, what are the nine steps so hard? It's like, so many steps to remember.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's a lot of steps.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Well, this is step one. A lot of people do step one, like, 300 times. I picked up, like, 10 white chips before I stuck with it. So, like, you know what I mean? Right? Do you guys like my starfish earrings. No, be honest. Be honest.

[Ronnie Caram]

All right, guys, I want to just give a toast to my beautiful girlfriend Maddie, because, like, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of Starfish. I'm so proud of your earlobes. So strong. You know, it's your first show in a long time, and I'm, like, really proud of you. But. But more importantly, I'm proud of this group. Like, I'm proud to be your friends. I'm proud to be opening a restaurant with Lev and Lamar soon, probably most likely, but I'm going to own. It's going to be great.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm calling it Joe Aer da, so hope you guys all come. So, hey, then Mia is asking everyone, what's the. What's your favorite thing that everyone ate? And then Justin goes. Michael's probably say, TJ's ass. Everyone's like. And Mia's like, michaels, did you pray for me at the church? I prayed for everybody. I prayed for everybody, and I cried a lot. And they're like, really? He's like, yeah, it was, like, very nice. I think that, like, my biggest thing is, like, I carry a lot of pain, and I feel like sometimes I don't release it and, like, being there, I just felt like I got, like, a lot, and it was, like, really nice to just, like, cry and release and pray, man.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's like, Michael's like, you know what? Like, when I met you, like, you weren't that secure about your sexuality, but now, like, sexuality is like a superpower. It's, like, crazy. Like, you're so gay now. Like, you're super, super gay now. Everyone's like, oh, my God, yes, Michaels, you're so gay now. Congratulations. Like, yes. Biggest gay I've ever met in my life. You did it.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's funny, because I'm, like, on the COVID of so Gay magazine now. So that, like, like, works out really well. So for me.

[Ronnie Caram]

But it's so dot gay.

[Ben Mandelker]

So not gay.

[Ronnie Caram]

So dot gay, dot.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, so dot gay. So dot. The dot stands for the dot. But by the way, I just want to re that, like, I brought people that I just felt were closest to me and, like, really supported me through this journey. So, yes, it was a spiritual moment, but it was also a passive aggressive way for me to get at Emmy. And in case people didn't realize that, I'm just gonna underline that one more time right now. I know.

[Ronnie Caram]

And just in case this didn't start a fight, I'll start a fight about it right now. I Used my church, My church moment to get it. Emmy. Okay, Emmy, you gonna say anything? She's like, oh. I mean, it was, like, heard loud and clear. I mean, we all have best friends here at this table, like, you know, like. Or we're loyal to.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, I mean, Mia's like, well, he just said it that it's his closest friends he brought to the church. He's like, oh, I heard, I heard. I just don't think I'm in a place where I'm, like, ready to be silenced or, like, shut down. And I think that, like, my outfit's honestly a great representation because, like, you guys probably what looks like fishnet for you. It's just actually something to match the sound. Because I feel like you let, like, I let you walk all over me. And they're like, oh, you rehearsed that, didn't you?

[Ronnie Caram]

I love that they all took turns calling him out on rehearsing that stupid line. I just wanted to match the sand because I feel like I've let you walk all over me. Then why are you dressed like sand? Because then you're dressed like someone who's continuing to let her walk all over you, right?

[Ben Mandelker]

You should.

[Ronnie Caram]

Why wouldn't you dress like a broom, you know, cleaning up the sand? So now you can't walk all over

[Ben Mandelker]

me or, like, dress like rough terrain. I'm dressing like rough terrain, which is historically difficult to walk across, or dress

[Ronnie Caram]

like a bear trap, you know, and be like you. You walk all over me again, I'm gonna catch your ankle.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am dressed like hot coals. Because if you're gonna walk over me, at least have a spiritual moment.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's why I'm wearing an outfit made out of nails. So you cannot walk all over me without making your feet bloody.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am wearing broken glass. That way, if anyone walks over me, it's gonna be any Linux.

[Ronnie Caram]

And so they're like, wow, I really thought about that line, huh? He's like, yeah, Michael's kept that in his notes app for, like, three months waiting to use that. Super gay, super gay. I told you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, I was thinking about it when I was getting ready, because it was like, either wear a fishnet or open button button down shirt A or open button down shirt B or blazer with nothing under it C. So, you know, I went with a sandy fishnet.

[Ronnie Caram]

I mean, like, that's how you feel like, I mean, so, like, you think, like, like, like, like, like, like, like. I mean, like, what do you think? Like, what? What do you think, Michaels?

[Ben Mandelker]

But you Think I'm, like, a bad friend, then fine. No. No, I never said you were a horrible friend. Those words never came out of my mouth. I just said you walked all over me, and you were terrible to me, and you made me cry, and you were, like, the worst person I've ever met in my entire life. But I never said you were a horrible friend.

[Ronnie Caram]

Like, you don't think I listen to you? Like. Like, I would. Like, like, what do you think? Like, like what?

[Ben Mandelker]

Because you don't. Okay. You don't really, like, sit down and, like, think about how other people are feeling. Like, you did the exact same thing with Brad. And, like, my biggest thing is, like, you need to stop trying to defame him. Like, I feel like you're saying that you were, like, threatened and stalked is, like, kind of a reach. A.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Julia's like, have you considered an apology? She's like. I'm like. I mean, like, what? Like, what are you talking about right now,

[Ben Mandelker]

guys? I mean, we gotta, like, pinpoint it. Like, I just need to know. Like, at this point, I've, like, said a lot of bullshit, so just tell me which one I want to. You want me to apologize for first? Okay? And he was like, emmy, you need to be held accountable for the things that you say, even if you think you're saying it in private to people. It's Charleston, and sometimes that doesn't happen. And I've heard for the same story from, like, multiple people that have nothing to do with this group. And some of the things that you're saying, it's like my jaw drops and, like, a lot of things that you're saying happened. Like, never even happened. And, like. Like, you were saying that he was, like, trying to break down your door. Like, you said that.

[Ronnie Caram]

I never said that. He was trying to break down the.

[Ben Mandelker]

What? What?

[Ronnie Caram]

What?

[Ben Mandelker]

She's like, not.

[Ronnie Caram]

Not any conversation that I've had with this group. Like, I mean, yeah. I mean, there was, like, the baker down the street. Like, maybe I said that, but they're a baker. Like, you're allowed to tell people. Bakers. You know, you're allowed.

[Ben Mandelker]

You can say whatever you want.

[Ronnie Caram]

Terrified. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bakers. It's like, it's in the name. Like, you bake up some shit for them, right? It's obvious. So Julia's like, okay, well, instead of putting words in your mouth, can you just maybe tell us what you think you've said? And then he goes, well, all I know is that you were very upset in your text message to me, and, you know I was not naked crying on the bathroom floor. Brad never banged on my door. I did have a panic attack after you not banged on my door when I was naked on the floor, though. But I. But I wasn't either. Those things. I just was. I called the police. I said, hello, is this the shower police? Because someone's outside my door, I think maybe. I'm not sure. It could be a cleaning lady. It could be actually just, like. Like, nothing. But I don't know. That's. That's all that happened.

[Ronnie Caram]

I mean, I did have a panic attack after you texted me. So, like, I can tell you that she's like, did you have a panic attack because you realized we heard everything that you said? She's like, I. I didn't know you guys were out there. Okay? Like, I did not know that you guys were out there. Okay? Molly's like, yeah, you're kind of missing the point. And Brad says, okay, look, you've been going around the streets of Charleston thinking you're having private conversations, saying all these things about me to the point that it made me cry, Emmy. Okay? And then you stab me in my back, and you twist the. And then you keep going deeper, and you just keep going deeper and deeper. And she's like, okay, Brad. Brad, I'm so sorry that you stalked me. I'm so, so sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, for. I. I. He's like, well, what are you apologizing for? Everything. All the above. Every. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Crosswalks. Crosswalks are so hard. Like, who even likes those? Those are so stupid. Like, I'm trying to drive.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like, why do I need to make the sign of the cross when I walk? Like, that's stupid. Why are you telling me to do that? Like, I apologize for that. Because there's other religions than Christianity, so I apologize.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm sorry for the word that I use to describe my feelings because I was, like, triggering. And, like, I should know to, like, get a dictionary to, like, say, what's another way to say stalking? Or, like, what's another way to say, like, terrified by a black man? I mean, I don't know. Like, maybe I should do that. But, you know, like, I sparked deep emotions in you, and, like, I never, ever wanted to make you feel that way, like, until you were behind bars. And so, like, I just. Like, it's just, like, how I express my emotions. Like, sorry, sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, I just want us to coexist. That's all you're gonna get out of me right now. That's good. No, that's that's all I want. I mean, what. What I'm realizing now is I think I let my frustration about with Brad not having a conversation with me make me harder and more stubborn. And, like, I have to put on my armor and be, like, on defense. And I never wanted to get to that point because I thought if I'm getting engaged to a defense lawyer, he would do it for me. Right? But I regret deeply the pain that I caused. I regret that I caused some pain after he banged on my door while I was naked in the shower.

[Ronnie Caram]

So she's like, yeah, I just. I never wanted to make you feel that way. But, like, like, we all know, like, I'm. I'm pretty like an emotional person. And, like, I feel things, like, so. So deeply. And, like, I don't, you know, like, I don't think, like, having anxiety or, like, being in a bad place with other people, you know, like, I don't like that. And Michael says, like, but it's not about what you need, okay? Like, you just lack, like, self awareness. Like, the other night, like, you and I had a conversation, but you made it all about yourself. Like, you know, I'm sorry. Like, I love you, but, like, I don't want to make it about you. Like, I'm done. I'm over at. And she's like,

[Ben Mandelker]

So then everyone.

[Ronnie Caram]

Every single time. Every single time, it's the same thing. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like, I feel like, like, what's the point of giving you the opportunity to speak if you're just gonna, like, give me the run around? And Bell's like, okay, like, guys, let's take a breath. Yeah, everyone, let's breathe. Let's breathe. And Michael's like, link, like, don't. Please don't speak, okay? Like, the thing is that you only speak whenever it's Emmy having an emotional reaction. And like, I said, you in the van today. I said, I wish you rode for me as hard as you ride for Jordan. And I said that. And I said like, that to you straight up. And, like, I don't want to hear it. Like, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear.

[Ronnie Caram]

I was like, but I do wide for you. He's like, no, I don't want to hear it. Okay. I don't want to hear it, Lake.

[Ben Mandelker]

But also, like, Michaels, you treated her like, like, like such a few weeks ago, and now you're expecting, like, blind loyalty from her. I mean, I kind of do think that she should ride for Michaels in this situation. I Don't think Emmy is the one that anyone should be writing for. But sometimes I feel like Michaels doesn't realize how. Like, when. When he shuts down, he's. When he's upset at someone, how. Like, that is like, maybe, like. Like, it's like, I don't know if I want to ride hard for you, because I don't know when this is gonna turn against me. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Emily's just over there hyperventilating, and me and Julia are cracking up across the table, like, whatever. So Lake says, you know, when Michaels is upset with somebody, he just, like, will straight up shut them out. Like, ignore them, but, like, just talk to her, you know? He's like, I'm not in a place where I want to have a conversation. I just want to, like, bring it up at dinner and, like, yell at you about it and then not talk about it. Like, what? You're the one who keeps bringing it up, so you don't want to have a conversation about it? Then stop bringing it up every episode because it's now episode 11. I mean, frankly, I don't even know why Amy's here. I feel like they should have just gotten rid of Emmy. Like, if Emmy's not going to be able to, like, come. Just come out and apologize and do whatever she needs to do to get through it, then she shouldn't even be on the show, because this is pretty bad, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. This is, like, a microaggression that has, like, continued for the entire season. It's, like, shocking. I mean, even, like, Ramona is able to. When she has a microaggression, usually within, like, one or two episodes, she's able to, like, throw some sort of, you know, perfunctory apology on it, so that way they can all move on. But Emmy is like, I feel like I've never seen the microaggression drag on this long for an entire season on. On one of these shows.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, it's crazy. So, like, if she can't take responsibility or do whatever, just put her on timeout. Get rid of her. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a crappin's commercial. Lately, I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day, and I'm leaning into pieces that feel easy and comfortable but still put together. It just makes getting dressed simpler. Quince has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are clean, and everything just works without needing to overthink it.

[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

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[Ronnie Caram]

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[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I was wondering what, like this is a weird one, because Michaels was trying to explain to Emmy a few episodes ago, like, his lived experience as a man of. Of color who has, like, dealt with microaggressions and things, and he's trying to explain it to her, and she just kept on making about herself in that moment, and it was, like, very, very frustrating for him where he's like, you know, we're not getting anywhere. And so I feel like I understand why he's, like, really upset and mad at Emmy because she's proven to be, like, a really insensitive friend in that moment, and maybe not even a friend at all. And so I get that. So I think it's weird that, like, everyone's saying to Michaels, you've got to sock. You got to talk. You got to talk to her. You got to talk to her. It's like. Like, how much does he owe her? Like, he doesn't have to educate her on, like, at this point, like, what have we Learned anything from 2020? I mean, in some ways, I think we have her learned nothing. But also, like, at a certain point, Emmy just has to do the work, and it's not up to Michaels to, like, babysit her the entire time. So I thought it was a little weird that everyone was telling, like, michaels, you have to talk to her. You have to talk to her. You have to talk to her. I mean, maybe they were saying, you guys really love each other, so, like, hash it out. But, like, I think it puts them in a really weird position, to be honest.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, well, it's just, like, causing. It's just. It's starting another thing in another episode where it's like, let's try and talk to Emmy about this thing again. It's like, she's never gonna learn this. She's just never gonna learn this. I think you guys just need to stop hanging out with her, because at this point, it's like, okay, here's another trip. Okay, let's ruin another dinner by, like, coming at Emmy about this thing she's never gonna admit to, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So I just think it's like beating your head against a wall, basically. So anyway, he's like, I don't want to hear it, Lake. So now he's. He's coming for late, kind of. And so TJ's is like, Michaels, I need to. I hear you, but you need to talk. And they're like, yeah, just straight. Shoot it and be done. Just be done with it. So this is where they're like, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And TJ's like, yeah, I don't think you can tell everyone else they have to make up, but then, like, you can't talk to her. And so, like.

[Ben Mandelker]

So I think I almost wonder if, like, maybe this is, like, a reaction to that situation with Lake where he was mad at Lake, but he wouldn't actually tell Lake why he was mad at her. And so they're like, okay, we have another situation. Like, Michaels, grow from the previous situation with Lake, and this time, talk. Say. Say what's on your mind. But I just feel like this is, like, a little bit of an extenuating circumstance where I'm like, I actually don't think he's really that obligated. I think he really did say it, and, like, he's allowed. And I think he just tried to say, like, you make it all about yourself. It's really frustrating for me. And I think it's sort of. I think in this specific situation with Emmy, I kind of don't know if he really does. He owes her, like, a whole conversation.

[Ronnie Caram]

He's already given her the conversation. He sat down, he talked to her. She wouldn't cop to it. Then he got upset with her again over dinner. Then that didn't work out. Then it's like, again, you know, and they're like, talk about it some more. I think a lot of it, too, is just. They don't really have anything else going on this season except for this. Like, that's the only plot, really, except for, like, maybe Justin's gonna. That rouge girl. Or like, they don't really. None of the cast that's sitting at the table has anything right now. So they're like, do it again. Talk some more. And it's like, okay, guys, you're just. You're just. Do something else. You guys have a responsibility to do something on this show, too, for Christ's sake. So he's like, okay, then you. You can speak, Emmy. I'll listen to you. And she's like, I don't like it. Like, I don't think he will. Like, I don't think he will.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, because it's always about what you need. Oh. Meanwhile, Mia's cracking up because Emmy is being so hysterical. She's being so over the top with her. And, like, Mia just cannot stop laughing. Julia cannot stop laughing. Emmy's like, I just don't know, like, why you're so upset with me. And Mike is like, because it's always about what you need.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. But, like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm going through like, you know, like, I didn't ask for anything to go this way. Like, I didn't ask for my life to be like this. Like, I did not ask for my life to be a shit show. You know, Like, I didn't ask for this past two years to happen to me. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm too much as a friend. Like, so see, Emmy? There you go. It's like, oh, it's so hard for me in this whole two years has just been so hard for me. Yeah. Can't do it. She's. She's incapable.

[Ben Mandelker]

Michaels is like, I never said you were too much as a friend. I just said that you. Like, I said that, like, you lack self awareness and, like, you make things about yourself. Okay? And he's like, I know. I know who I am. I know. I know I can. Yep. But, like, look, I listen to you, Michael. Like, I know it's like a lie. It's like Molly goes, I think there's a difference between hearing and listening. She's like. And Michael's like, what? That's what my issue is. And he's like, I just. Like, I. I just. Like, I don't know what I've done to be a bad friend. All I do is listen to you. Like, you don't know how hard it is for me to listen to you. Do you know how hard it is for me to listen to you? Will's not even here because normally Will listens for me, and then he tells me, but now I've got to listen. It's hard.

[Ronnie Caram]

I did say you were a bad friend. And so now there's a cat there. You know, it's like one of those, like, neighborhood cats, and it's just sitting there and watching them. And Maddie gets this terrified look on her face, and then he's just like, But Michael's like, you said that you, like, wore a shirt because, like, all I do is walk all over you. Like, what?

[Ben Mandelker]

And he's like, that's your interpretation of what I said.

[Ronnie Caram]

But that is what you said, though.

[Ben Mandelker]

You said that, Michaels.

[Ronnie Caram]

That's, like, literally what you said.

[Ben Mandelker]

You literally said it. It was a whole thing.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's like, okay, then what kind of friend do you think I am? He's not the best one right now. Okay, so I'm not, like, the best friend right now? Like, ow, ow.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, my God.

[Ronnie Caram]

Step deep that. Like, step deep that kind of vein, you know? Like, how am I being so, like. Like, how am I making about me right now? Like, it's Like, I'm. I'm not at all like, Maddie, are you, by the way, are you scared of the cat? Because there's, like, a cat right there.

[Ben Mandelker]

I am, yes. So Maddie says that she's afraid of cats. And Maddie's like, no, like, joe, Joe, go after the cat. Go off the cat. So Emmy's like, okay, guys, I'm still crying. So Michaels. I just like, Michaels. I think you're, like, missing the point. The conversation, which was actually that, like, I'm going through a lot right now. He's like, no, you're missing the point. You're the one missing the point. Like, no, no. It's like. It's just like, no, I've done everything for you. Like, I. I don't know. I. Like, I've done so much for you. I'm doing everything. But everyone's totally distracted by the cat now because Maddie is, like, making a scene about it. So now no one's paying attention to Emmy.

[Ronnie Caram]

Maddie's, like, standing up on the chair, like, oh, my God. I don't know where cats have been. Like, where have the cats been? Like, they've been all over the town. They're like street cats. You hang out with this cast?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, amigos, trust me. I mean, I've had my faults and my friendships with people at the table, but, like, you think I would do anything to, like, try to, like, hurt and disrespect you? Like, I love you. You don't understand how hard it is for me to love you because it's so scary. I' gets stocked in hotel rooms, okay? And so for me to open my heart is very hard because I'm. I'm afraid to open up even my hotel door.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, my God, the cat's running. The cat's running now the cat's running. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Get the cat. Joe. Joe, don't be nice to the cat, or it's gonna keep coming back. Joe. Okay? It's like, grace, Lily. Okay, give it a lunch. Give it a lunch. Shoe. Shoe.

[Ben Mandelker]

Cat, go. So Emmy is, like, upset now. Now, Matt. Now Michaels is just. Just totally not listening to her. I mean, it's like, not only is Michael's not even listening to me, he's publicly humiliated me, and I would never treat my best friend like that. So, yeah, she's like, I just need a moment. I need some time. I need a moment.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm possibly humiliated. So, yeah, she goes. She's like, I need a moment now. So she leaves, and Joe's like, you want to go, like, on a walk or something. And she's like, yes. No tears, as usual. And he's like, okay, is it. Is it just too much for you? And meanwhile, Maddie's like, oh, my God, that thing looks like a cheetah.

[Ben Mandelker]

It is a cheetah. It's secretly a cheetah. Run. Run.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's as big as a fist, by the way. It's so small. It's like this cute little kitten.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, it's a cute little cat. So Joe and Emmy are walking, and Emmy is, of course, sobbing. She's. I don't know why I do this to myself. I don't know why that. So Joe's like, it's too much. It's a lot. Every year. Year. Every year I do this to myself.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. And so back at the table, everyone's telling Michaels he needs to talk to Emmy enough. He doesn't need to talk to Emmy. Jesus Christ. He's like, what's the point of having a conversation? Like, she doesn't give a. What you have to say. I'm wasting my breath. Enough. And TJ's like, well, I understand what you're saying. Not the listening part, but I don't think she can walk all over you. I mean, you are pretty loud. So he goes, God damn, I'm loud. It's like, yeah, yeah. They're all like, yeah, you're loud. So then Molly's like, well, I do understand what it's like to be screamed at and embarrassed in front of a group of people from Michael's. So I sympathize with Emmy. Oh, what a shocker.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Yeah, what a shocker.

[Ronnie Caram]

Nancy Grace is gonna sympathize with Emmy. I get. Didn't see that one coming.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Emmy tells Joe while they're on their walk, just because, like, I don't have my fiance here to defend me. Like, it's just like. I'm like, just this, like, easy pigeon for people to, like, pick off of me, you know? Yo, those classic pigeons. Know how people pick off pigeons? You know, they go to pigeons, pick them up off the ground, and just, like, pull their feathers off. That's me. Classic city pigeon life right here. And if he was here, like, he just fucking. If we were here, he just fucking destroy all these people, just like he did last year in my honor. Remember? Remember when he did that in my honor?

[Ronnie Caram]

Remember when he showed up to the reunion and laid everybody out for me? Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Ben Mandelker]

He.

[Ronnie Caram]

He ditched it because he was a wuss. Just like. Well, I mean, yeah, I don't think Joe really, I mean, I don't think Will has the best track record of there for Emmy. Like, he's never, like, looked at one of her necklaces and been like, whoa, that's starfish. Right? So, like, I think the only thing Will can do is, like, you know, advise her to remain silent.

[Ben Mandelker]

But Mia's like, look, Michaels, I don't know if this is the way that you talk, because you talk kind of in riddles, like, whatever. Like, I don't have a voice and I feel walked over. I, I, I like, I think that, like, if I had an issue with tj, if I had an issue with Molly, if I had an issue with Bradley or anybody, I would just say, hey, you, me, by doing this, I don't like it. Fix it. And then we'd be friends again. He's like, yeah, but like, riddle me this, okay. I am a doctor, and I'm. And I'm. But I'm not the dad of the patient, but the patient's my child. Like, how's that possible? So you're doing a riddle that the doctor is the mom. It's a very old fashioned riddle where people were shocked that doctors were women. You got to really, really keep up with your riddle game, Michaels.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm actually really impressed that you got that. Okay, but the point is, like, you, you have to, like, just say what's on your mind. I mean, I get it, but he did say what's on his mind, didn't he? I think there was something else. You gave a microaggression, then you refuse to apologize for it. And I'm black, so you, you acting like microaggressions are no big deal affects me as well, because it's like you're all over me by denying that it would be hurtful or, you know, I mean, I think he said that in so many words, did he not?

[Ben Mandelker]

I think he pretty much said it. He's like, this is an extremely sensitive topic. We're talking about race right now. And this is going to be bigger than whatever it is that you're upset about, but you're somehow making what you're going through bigger than this moment. And, like, you really can't do that. And she just was not able to hear that at all.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. So then Joe and Emmy are still talking, and she's like, oh, my God, like, who the wears a shirt that says, this represents you walking all over me? Like, who does that? And he's like, well, you know, it's because He's a drama queen. You know, he just wants to make the trip about himself.

[Ben Mandelker]

So that's why Sammy's like, yeah, I don't need a person like that in my life. You don't need someone who makes every moment about them in their. In your life. Got it at me. So Joe's like, yeah. The difference is, I think that, like, with Michaels, he actually, like, loves you. He does, yeah. He actually, like, he. When we were coming to this trip, he said he originally packed that fishnet because he felt like you could see right through him to his soul. So, yeah, he changed it up, turned it to sand, and like, you walk on sand, but, like, at one point it was soul. So he loves you. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So he's like, I understand if you don't want to make it to Maddie's thing or whatever. So back at the table, they're talking about Maddie's gig. It's almost time to go, but she needs her phone. They gotta go because it's time to shot shots. So they give a cheers to her and her gig. And then Julie's like, I'm not taking that shot. And DJs like, so now everybody gets up to leave and go to this gig. And Emmy's, like, thanking Joe for talking to her. He's like, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. Like, I hate to see at the dinner table like that. It's, like, so hard.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, I'm like, easy pickings. Like, God forbid, Like, if Will were there, like, everyone would shut the up in two seconds dance. Right? Because classic Will always shutting people up all the time because he's a lawyer.

[Ronnie Caram]

So now they go to this gig and Maddie's anxious, but everyone's dancing and she's having a great time. So she does her gig, basically, and everybody dances around and they have a lot of, like, synchronized dancing, like, a lot of choreographed dancing, which I found very love line.

[Ben Mandelker]

Line dancing.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yes. They have, like, Yeah, I would love that if I was doing something and if there was, like, choreography.

[Ben Mandelker]

So they're like, whoa, look. Look at that. That's amazing. And Bella goes. Bella goes. Yes. That's. That's Matt, Joe. That's your girlfriend. And he's like, yeah, we haven't had sex all week, but that's my girlfriend. Yeah, for sure. Like, one more day, we probably won't be boyfriend girlfriend. But, like, for right now, still doing pretty well.

[Ronnie Caram]

She threw something on my desk that I needed. It was like a pencil eraser.

[Ben Mandelker]

Her.

[Ronnie Caram]

I haven't Been able to erase anything in a long time. But she's my girlfriend. She's. She stole us, you guys.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Yeah. So then Molly goes to check in on Emmy, and Molly's like, hey, I want to check on you. And Emmy's like, thank you. Because, like, do you want to sit right here? Like, us. Us white blonde girls have to stick together, you know? And Molly's like, yeah, I mean, I don't know what you're going through, but I understand the wrath of Michaels when it comes to having your friendship, like, torn apart. So, like, I'm here for you. And she's like, oh, God. Good. I need my best. I need my best friend. And it's like, me and tj, like, at our worst, never talk to each other like that. And, like, me and Brad at our worst, like, I know I'm reactive, but, like, I'm reacting to people who've hurt me. And, like, I don't yell at my best friend. Like, when you care and you love a person, you reel it in or you accuse them of stalking your hotel room. It's one of those two things.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. You know, like, I just think, like, Michael's like, he has, like, a hard time, like, taking accountability for his actual actions. Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, and Molly's like, yeah, everything you're saying, I feel the same way about Michaels. And I always knew there was something fishy about him because a girl from that neighborhood went missing. And I'm sure if you look in his trunk, you will find that little girl. Okay, now, secrets. Okay, calm down. Okay. I. I just. Like, I think you were. I. Look, I just want to say this, like, I don't think that you were wrong with, like, a lot of the hurt that you felt with Michaels, because, like, what I was told by him, like, you were very valid. I'm just gonna say that. I'm just gonna say that.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Molly's like, well, what do you mean by that? Was that. Was that proper English? Okay, well, your whole issue with Michaels being a part of your firing. He's the A.G. he's the attorney General. I had no idea. No. Assistant General Manager, agm. He didn't let me finish. He's a managerial position, and he was asked his opinion on if you should be fired, and it was a yes.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Molly's like, ah, he has told. He told me he had nothing to do with it, and he fought for me. And so we see a flashback of Michael's being like. Like, I've been, like, defending your honor even when you're not there. Like, I did not even find about. Find out about your firing until the morning of now.

[Ben Mandelker]

Why is Molly gonna just, like, believe this? This face value from Emmy, someone that she has just recently, like, last episode, reminded us that she's always had a frosty relationship with her. They never got along. Emmy always treated her like Emmy called her like a. On tv. And now all of a sudden, Emmy gives her this information about the person that she's beefing with, and Molly's just going to take it face value.

[Ronnie Caram]

And, yeah, she knows what Emmy's doing here. I mean, she should be smart enough to know what Emmy's doing here. But, you know, Molly has always loved to join, jump on anything to try and make a story. She's trying so hard. I mean, Molly, God bless her, she. You can't look. You can say. You can look at Molly and be like, molly's boring or like, Molly sucks, or Molly's like Nancy Grace, whatever. But you can't say, Molly doesn't try. And Molly is gonna try. You give her a little. A little inch of. She's gonna take a mile, and she's gonna go. She's gonna run with it. So here she goes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, she will. So she's like. She's like, I knew it. Michaels has been lying to my face. And if there's anyone who would know this information, it would be Emmy. Emmy is the closest person to Michael's, and I'm pissed. I'm hurt. I'm heartbroken.

[Ronnie Caram]

Why was she fired again? I forget what she did. Why did she get fired? Do you remember?

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't remember. Did she?

[Ronnie Caram]

I thought it's because she was missing work too much for her other job.

[Ben Mandelker]

Southern Herbs and Planning. I honestly don't remember. I really don't remember.

[Ronnie Caram]

Why did.

[Ben Mandelker]

They should have, like, fired. Brought this up, like, one more time in the middle of the season. So we remembered.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, I think so, too, because I don't remember what it is. So anyway, so. But you got fired. I mean, ultimately, it was the people who fired you, Leva and all of them. So even if he agreed to fire you, you were apparently doing stuff that was fireable, right? I don't know. I don't remember.

[Ben Mandelker]

Emmy tells us. Emmy tells us. I know what it's like to have a gut feeling that you're in the right and have everyone gaslight you telling you that you're wrong. So I'm just like, yeah, we're gonna be honest. Because I've got to be honest. Honestly. The best policy I'm like, if this is a reference to Will cheating, lady, there's a lot of people saying that he's cheated. At some point, you have to, like, take the blinders off.

[Ronnie Caram]

Will is cheating on you. Will has been cheating on you. Oh, my God. And honesty is your best policy. You were saying that Brad was beating down the ch door and that you were naked on the floor, terrified. Get out of here. So now they're friends. That's all it took. So Michael is. You know, everybody else is enjoying the gig, and they're like, oh, my God. Maddie's doing so great. So she finishes the gig, and they all jump in the pool and swim together. And Emmy gets in there, and everyone else is cheering and having fun as she's just kind of, like, waiting close to them.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like,

[Ronnie Caram]

everybody's so mean to me.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So then now we're back in Charleston. Okay. It was a. It was a fun trip. And now we're back in Charleston, and TJ is on FaceTime with his mom, Stephanie, and she's like, hey, what are you doing? Did you just get home? Have you vacuumed yet? He's like, yeah, as soon as I got off the plane. Oh, good. Did everyone behave? Yeah, for the most part. And then we see Justin, who's FaceTiming his mom, Mary, up in Boston, and she's like, so I never even got to talk to you? And he's like, yeah, I know. Mom was fun. Like, we're drinking. It's good times. Oh, yeah. I love hearing that. Did you talk to that girl that you're in love with? Yeah, man. Yeah, it was great. I love my mom. She's a rock. Growing up, she's the matriarch. She was tough, Irish Catholic, Boston woman. I remember this one time, this girl literally left underwear in my mom's car. My mom said, hey, what are you doing with this underwears? And I said, what? What underwear? She goes, this underwears? Is this your aunt's? I was like, yeah, it is. It is my aunt's. She goes, I knew you had a. For my sister. It was weird. It was really weird. Weird moment for us.

[Ronnie Caram]

So he's talking about Charlie, and he's like, yeah, I know you love her, Ma, because, you know, the green flag for you is a red flag for me. She's like, oh, God, it's the Taylor Swift God. That's a definite check for me. That. That puts it at the top of the list. I love Taylor.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. He's like, really? It's like, oh, yeah. I can't Wait to meet her. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, well, I'm sure I'll bring her up to Boston. No, I'm talking about Taylor Swift. I want to meet him. God.

[Ronnie Caram]

So now it's time for a shift at Republic, everybody. And Joe's like, oh, here, T.J. i'll tell you how I feel. I'll show you how to do it. Look. Look at this as a mouse. The mouse goes around the. The tree two times, and then the mouse goes up the tree, and then the mouse goes into the hole, and then the mouse has a couple of drinks, and the mouse comes back out, and the mouse's girlfriend's like, you're an alcoholic. It's like, well, nobody gave me a business.

[Ben Mandelker]

But why would the mouse go into the hole? What's. Why is the mouse going up the tree if it's just gonna go down into the hole? Joe. Well, like, it needs to, like, tell everyone that there's, like, an emo party in the hole and then has to go to the hole to host the party.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Link's like, whoa, wait, you don't know how to tie a tie? He's like, no, we know you do, because you're half lesbian.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Maddie's asking Emmy if she and Michaels have talked yet, and definitely not. I mean, it's like I would be doing myself a disservice if I just acted like everything was fine and the way that he treated me was fine, because it's not like.

[Ronnie Caram]

And Maddie's like, I definitely agree. He was, like, a little harsh. Oh, my God, you guys. What do you. He was not harsh. This was not. This wasn't one of the Michael screaming at women things that we've seen. I didn't feel like it was. Did you? I mean, we've seen a couple times this season and called him out on it, but I didn't think this was that really. I thought he. He. I thought he actually kind of learned his lesson and kind of stayed somewhat calm through this.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I mean, unless. Unless there was something else. I know at the beginning of the trip, before they even had their talk, he was being really frosty to her. So he was doing the same thing where he's like, I'm not gonna say why I'm mad at you. I'm just gonna be mad at you. And she was like, why is Michael's mad at me? So that was a thing that happened earlier in the trip, but.

[Ronnie Caram]

Well, yeah, he's definitely still immature.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. So Joe's working the line outside, and he's like, I love where I'm at right now. And I'm feeling like re energized after vacation, after, like, my awesome event that I threw. And I just feel like everything's like falling back into place. I, like, take away my chronic back pain. Like, dirty's like, not so bad.

[Ronnie Caram]

You know where we should watch the game? We should. We. We have a sporting club. Club Lamar. So we're gonna watch it. So Love is here now, dressed crazy well, Love and needs some help with her outfits on this show, I think so. They're like, oh, my God. Love by the queen of rep. Michael's just talking about the trip and he's like, yeah, you know, like, there's been drama going on, but I try to make sure that Leva doesn't hear about it, you know, like, leave the outside of work. So he's telling her it was fun and, you know, and Brad's like, yeah, we had a great time. I love is like, huh? Okay, so Joe comes up and he's like, it's been a crazy few weeks, but I'm like, so glad to be back at work. I cannot wait for you to give me my own business. This is going to be great. You know, you're not going to regret this, Leva. You're not going to regret this.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, now that I've been like, back at my job for like a day, I just feel like I have this newfound fire. I feel like I care more about my career. So here's my hand, and you can just put the keys right in there. Right in there. And I'll just go and start the business. So, yeah, right.

[Ronnie Caram]

I'm ready. I'm ready for something bigger now. You know, like after taking a four day weekend during the busiest time at the restaurant to go see my girlfriend, dj, which is what you don't like. Yeah, I'm ready for you to give me a business. Just ready for something bigger. And she goes, yeah, well, I feel like, you know, you put your mind anything that could happen,

[Ben Mandelker]

it's like, yeah, well, there are like other people that are hitting me up and I'm just like, there's no way I'm gonna do this for the first time without people that I love and trust the most. Like, there's no way. And I'm just gonna, like, get back there. And I just think that, like, you know, I could just do like two more tables, you know, like, that's like that. She's like, oh, I love seeing it. And if you were just trying to make me feel like you were using other people as leverage for me. Like that didn't work.

[Ronnie Caram]

So better get Joe a restaurant before somebody else does. Okay. Okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

Make sure you find those Frankie Valli fans a seat. Okay,

[Ronnie Caram]

here comes one right now.

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[Ronnie Caram]

So now we have date night with Lake and Jonessa and they're just like giggling at each other like, ha ha ha, you're cute.

[Ben Mandelker]

You're cute. No, you're cute. No, you're cute.

[Ronnie Caram]

Like I was like such a bitch to you the first time we met. Like, yeah, it was crazy because I was, like, so nervous, and you're, like, so pretty. And I was like, maybe she's bi or gay or something. And so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do it. So, like, you're coming, and you're walking towards me, and I was like, you need a drink. And then you're like, I'm working. It's like, oh, sorry.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Like, wow. What? By the way, when did you and your ex break up? Sick. About a year ago. He's like, yeah. Wow. You know, for me, I was, like, really young when I had my first real relationship because I would secretly date girls that they could spend the night at my house. And then my mom caught on pretty quick, and she would FaceTime me, which was crazy because they didn't even have FaceTime back then. But, like, somehow my mom just had it. And she'd be like, lake, what the hell are you doing? So I was like, cool. But my dad didn't like it.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. And they talk about how her dad's still a homophobe, and he thinks that she's just, like, doing all of this to be, like, rebellious. And so she's just going to be patient with her dad, I guess. She's like, well, you can't change him him. And so then they're like, oh, my God, your eyes are so pretty now. You're right. And then they kiss outside. Lake's like, it. We're gonna do it. And they kiss on camera. So then Grace Lily time. Grace Lily is where everybody, the. The, you know, the total environment. Everybody wants to get their cards read. A nice dark room with some patchouli going and some candles and lots of scarves. Nope. It's Zach's dad.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

Wants to get their cards read at Zach's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Dax, I don't know, but she. There she is at Zachary. Zachary. Zachary. So love explains to us, you know, although Grace hasn't worked for us for a couple years, she did mention that she wanted to get back to it and get back into work. And the nightlife business wasn't the best environment for her. And I just want to inspire and have her to have something and. But in a space that, like, isn't late night, I just don't want her to be tempted by buy, you know, booze and alcohol everywhere. So we put her in a place that has 12 different Daiquiri machines flowing at once.

[Ronnie Caram]

You know, she's just so childlike, and she's just loves substances too much. So we're putting her in A place full of substances that are childlike in color to really get her excited about not drinking anymore. Okay. All right. So meanwhile, Grace is reading the cards and she's like, oh, my God, I sent something fiery. The girl's like, oh, my God, that's so mean. She's like, yeah, glad I could help. God, this is a good one.

[Ben Mandelker]

So then everyone else start. Well, Joe and Maddie show up because they're there to see Ally, because Ally is going to be performing, singing at Zachary Deck. Zachary. Zachary's. This is like the Peach Pit or that place on the OC where they'd watch bands like, why Wait, so you come to Zachary's. Zachary's. For frozen drinks, but also to get your tarot cards read, and also to watch a singer songwriter strum on her guitar and sing.

[Ronnie Caram]

Love is just like, get anybody even interested in reality TV here to bring in people. Just please bring in as many people as we can. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. If it's the alley girl that nobody knew from Vanderpump Rules. Bring her in here. Okay. Bring in the Bella of Vanderpump Rules.

[Ben Mandelker]

So Maddie's like, I know ally because I DJ'd with her ex all the time. And her family lives here in Charleston. So I'm like, excited that she's in town and that she's here singing at the premiere concert venue of Zachary's. Zachary's.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. James must have known that she was going to have her big moment this week at Zach Stacks because he announced that he's found the wine guys. He's dated somebody for like four weeks and he's found the one. I saw it on some headline. I was like, james is still in headlines.

[Ben Mandelker]

No one asked for this other. Are they having a child together?

[Ronnie Caram]

Are they? Oh, my gosh. I guess maybe I should read the headlines.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I think they are. I think it says, Ali Luber shocked if James Kennedy Baby News. So the baby news is the following, which is that I think he's expecting some sort of. I think. I think he's expecting a child.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yikes. So, wow. So then, Grace, Lily is now doing her reading. And check two of pentacles. That's yin and yangi okay, you know what that is? Those are like two worms. But they're giving each other the 69. You ever see them on skateboards or anything like that? That. So basically you're a skateboarder. Watch out though, cuz, traffic is terrifying. The girl's like, oh, my God. Okay. Thanks. I'll never skateboard. Okay, my work here is done.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wow. I wasn't expecting to see Grace here. I mean, she's been a horrible friend to Maddie, so it's like, a little awkward. I mean, the things that she told Maddie to do, like to peg me, like, that was terrible. So Grace is like, yeah, it's definitely awkward seeing Maddie and Joe. And I do want to extend this olive branch because I've been thinking a lot about this olive branch. This is my second olive branch. The first one I accidentally dropped into daiquiri machine. Real weird. Yeah. I've been thinking about this olive branch and I don't know, I just want this to be a really good olive branch because, you know, I actually don't like olives. But I do love branches. And I thought, well, take the good, take the bad, you know, take them both. And there you have olive branches of life.

[Ronnie Caram]

So Grace, Joe's just ignoring her. Joe and Maddie are ignoring her, but Grace comes up to stand right next to them, and they still ignore her. She's like, love your shirt. It's like, oh, thank you. And your pants. Okay, I appreciate that. Everything good with you? Yeah, it's actually good. I've been in a really good place. I've been thinking about all the branches. Okay. Really into all the branches right now. It's like. Well, obviously, like, I clearly care about you and I love you a lot, but we're both pretty hurt, so. My butt, specifically.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, well, I was also hurt. Okay. Because I showed up at a theme party and no one told me about that was slumber, so. Okay.

[Ronnie Caram]

I love that she's holding on to this.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's so funny to me now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Told me it was a pajama party. How am I supposed to feel?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I'm just gonna say hi and I. I'm just gonna say hi. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna say. Hello. Hi. Hi. Hi, it's me. Oh, I didn't know if you wanted to chat for a second. Yeah. Yeah, okay. We can chat. Okay. Yeah, let's go outside a lot. It's nice out here. Hey. So it's been over a month since. Since, you know, I saw. I saw Maddie. Yeah, it's been over a month since I. Grace and I last spoke. And I'm concerned. Yeah. So did anyone. Did anyone apologize to Joe? Did she apologize to you? Joe? He's like, not really. No. She didn't even compliment you on your star for sharings, which was too bad.

[Ronnie Caram]

So they sit down and Grace is Like, I miss you. I can feel it's been a while. Like, I haven't even seen you so long. Like, the other day I was hula hooping out on my front lawn. You weren't even there. Clothes clapping for me. That was weird. So thanks for missing that show. But you know, it's been such a crazy summer. I mean, I don't know. I just really want to start off by saying I really am sorry with what happened that night at Molly's house. I mean, yes, my feelings were hurt, but you know, I hurt your feelings now. Your feelings were hurt while you were wearing pajamas, so you didn't feel stupid like I did. My feelings were hurt, so one of us felt stupider than the other person because they weren't in pajamas. But, you know, whatever.

[Ben Mandelker]

I know why you're hurting. I know why you're hurting because you did just get a new pajama set and you weren't able to wear it. But like, it doesn't give me a reason to feel like you can just like walk all over me all the same time. The reason why I wore this top is because it's like, reminiscent of sand. And you walked all over the sand at one point in your life in Tulum. And that's like the. This is Tulum sand. That. What are you talking about? I don't know. I. I was trying something and just forget it.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but. Okay, Maddie, if I could go in time, I would unshoot John Frank Kennedy because he was very handsome and handsome people shouldn't get shot. Okay? And also, I wouldn't hurt your feelings, okay? Cuz I think the emotions were high, you know? And you didn't tell me, like, it's a pajama party. And I showed up and I just felt like fool, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I feel like I'm trying to be a good friend and I feel like you're throwing daggers at me and like, trying to hurt me. No, that's not what I'm doing, Maddie. You know, as someone that's been through drug addiction, right? You know my struggles, you know, the things I've been through, but I haven't been. I've been doing a lot better. Doing real good now. Okay? I'm not asking for help. I'm not. I'm actually getting help and I'm not asking for help. Is that nice?

[Ronnie Caram]

Like. Well, I mean, I do hope that that's the case and like, I hope that you do, like, get that and follow through. Yeah, but it is the case because I met with Isaac Okay. I don't know if you know him in the community, but he's like a drug and alcohol person. And then I've done n a meetings, you know, and that's where you just sit around and go, nah, nah. You know, I'm going to therapy new and those kinds of things. You know, stuff like that. I took the train last week. That's neither here nor there, but it was fun.

[Ben Mandelker]

We don't have a train. Oh, what was that? I don't know. But Grace. You know what? Grace has told me a million times over the past six years that she's going to get help with this, and she never has. She's always just been on a journey, and this journey has never, ever come to a destination. So it's hard to believe right now that this is the time that she's clean now.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but I've been sober, though. But I've been sober, so I think

[Ben Mandelker]

that, like, where we just move from here is like, me seeing those actions of you actually getting help.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, okay. You want me pissing a cup and show it and show it to you? Okay. It'll probably taste like something out here. Have you tasted this stuff? Stuff? It's terrible.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I would have loved to have seen a drug test maybe on girls night. Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

She's like, well, I went on drugs that night, though, because I only had two glasses of wine that. That night. That's different, you know, and it's immediately like, of course you're like, oh, you're not sober. Like, people do not get not sober from a couple glasses of wine.

[Ben Mandelker]

Maddie's journey was different. I think that sometimes, like, she kind of envies maybe people that are able to have a drink. Right, right. She sort of was like, Maddie's just sort of, like, jealous of my sober journey, I guess, because she can't have one at all. But I'm like, on my own journey and, like, I'm doing better for myself and, like, you know, God has a

[Ronnie Caram]

plan, and it's for me to have rose. That's what his plan is. Okay, so this is interesting because she's like, I'm totally. I'm totally in touch with my addiction, which is why I can still have a drink and be fine with it and. Sorry, you can't. It's very interesting because there are different, you know, ways that people get sober. Some people are. Are not really alcoholics. They're just drug addicts. So not doing the drug anymore is maybe their version. But it is interesting because Maddie is sober. Sober. And she's she's talking to this girl who's like, oh, I'm almost over that now. All I had was a couple glasses of wine. So that of course rings as total to Maddie. She's like, okay, what conversation are we having right now, lady?

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, so Grace is like, Then Maddie's like, well, two days before you were doing something when I picked you up. Up. And she's like, no, no, no, that. Not yet. You picked me up. I was drinking. It's like. She's like, that's not true. That's what she said. It is true. No, you told me you relapsed. She's like, maddie, no, I was cons. I was considering relapsing, but I didn't relapse. No, you said you relapsed. I was like, how do you know that you weren't with me. You don't know if I relapse or not.

[Ronnie Caram]

But I was with you. I came to pick you up. I was with you. And you told me. And so she tells us. A few days before the girls engaged party, Grace reached out saying she needs help and she's in a situation where she's too up. So Maddie picked her up and took her to her house and took care of her and she bathed her that night and she was up out of her mind. Oh, Grace. Oh my gosh.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. I mean, Race's story is sad because we do see, we saw that she did get help, but we also know the real life headlines, which is that she's been arrested once or twice now since this. It's just been a rough journey for her. So she says that she wasn't using that weekend. And she's like, she didn't see me have any drugs on me, any anything that. That pisses me off. I slept over at her house. There's nothing wrong with that. She's supposed to be my friend, babe.

[Ronnie Caram]

It's. There is when you're so up you have to be picked up and then she has to literally bathe you. So. God, Grace. So Maddie's like, you know, I give her headphones to listen to like ocean and meditation because that helps me go to sleep, you know. And I think she took that as me like putting her off or something, but I don't know. So Grace is like, yeah. And then the whole time she's on her phone watching the Osborne. Osborne's.

[Ben Mandelker]

Maddie goes, yeah, because that was the week that Ozzy Osbourne died. So I was watching the Osbornes a lot. Like, what the hell? Maddie's like, okay, you've been up for two days and you relapse. Okay. During the Ozzy Osbourne marathon. No, I had no drugs on me that night. I was not doing drugs. I've been drinking that night. I was just wasted, that's all. But not on drugs.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah, but, Grace, if you're so wasted, even on alcohol, that you're up for two days straight and still need to be picked up and bathed. Bathed. That's a. That's a problem, babe. Oh, I hate this for Grace. Lily. I love Grace. Lily.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Caram]

So she's like, okay, do you want me to grab Joe? Because, like, Joe literally was in the car there. Okay. And she's like, nah. And no matter what, you guys are always going to take each other's side, so whatever.

[Ben Mandelker]

It has nothing to do with that. Yeah, well, I just feel like we should end the conversation, like. Yeah, okay, Fine. Fine, fine, fine. So Maddie gets up and goes inside, and Grace is like. Like, yeah, I was hoping for some support from her. I didn't get that, unfortunately. And that's fine. Like, I don't need everybody's support.

[Ronnie Caram]

Oh, bummer. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think it's got to be very tough to be around Grace, and she probably does take a lot of energy and effort, and she does lash out. But I also feel like she's, like, a very lonely soul. And I do. I actually, like, really concerned for her. Her.

[Ronnie Caram]

Yeah. Oh, Grace. Come on, Grace. We're rooting for you, lady.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. But in the meantime, we are done with this episode. Thanks, everyone, for listening, and we'll catch you on the next episode of Watch what happens. Bye, everyone.

[Ronnie Caram]

Bye.

[Ben Mandelker]

Watch what crap. INS would like to thank its premium sponsors. She answered the call. It's Adia Paul. Ain't no thing like Alison King.

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