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- [00:18]
A
Hello and welcome. This is Gabriel Custodiet of Watchman Privacy privacy practitioner, consultant, author, and frontline fighter in Push for Privacy. I know why you're here. Like the rest of us here in the Resistance, you're trying to escape the technocratic apparatuses that you see enveloping you and crushing your freedoms. That's why I created all of this, all without sponsors. I hope you enjoy this show. But then when you're ready to take the next steps to secure your privacy and your future, Visit my website, escapethechnocracy.com to start the real journey. Your support alone determines the future of the show. See you there. I'm very pleased today to be joined by Lauren Rodriguez. Lauren is the wife of Keone Rodriguez, who is in federal prison right now for running Samurai Wallets. And so it's a privilege to talk to Lauren. And let me give people a quick summary. If this is your first time hearing about any of this, Samurai Wallet was a bitcoin wallet, non custodial wallet, which means that only you, the user, are in control of your keys, your, your funds. And it was running for around 10 years, and then one day it wasn't running anymore. And the creators were scooped up by the FBI and other federal agencies, and now they're in prison for reasons pertaining to, basically, if you look into it, a judge wanted them in prison is kind of what happened at the end. And so Lauren has been doing God's work. She's been doing her Stella Assange work, her Lynn and Caroline Ulbricht work in keeping the word alive. And we'll also direct people here at the beginning. The website is billandchione.org you can read more about the details and then you can support Lauren and other people involved in this by giving a donation and also signing a petition. So we will get into that. But, Lauren, welcome to the show. How's it going today?
- [02:12]
B
Hi, Gabriel. Thank you so much for having me. I think you gave me a better introduction than I could ever do myself, so. So thank you very much.
- [02:20]
A
Let's just start right from the beginning, Lauren, because we'll get into some of the details here, but a lot of the listeners will already be familiar with what's going on. What is the thing that you would like listeners to take action on from the start, or what are the things that you're really looking for these days from people, their network? What's the most that the audience can do right now?
- [02:42]
B
So there are a few things. And, you know, two, you mentioned right off the bat, the Signing the petition, donating if they feel able, and willing. The other things are if anyone does know anyone in the administration to bring this to their attention, or if anyone has any ideas to push this along to get them pardoned sooner, that's. That's really what we're after. The pardon application's been submitted. It's just now a matter of, I guess, getting the attention on it. So if you do have those ideas or do have those connections and are willing to reach out to me, you know, I would love to talk to you.
- [03:21]
A
Absolutely. So I'll encourage every single person listening. Check out the website we mentioned, billandkeone.org sign that petition. Now. The name requires a name and an email address. And if those look fake or bogus or temporary email, I don't think that will count. So you need to give name and email address. Consider giving a donation if you've ever used Samurai Wallet. If you supportive of the Bitcoin ethos or the Monero ethos or anything like this, consider giving a donation. And as Lauren said, if you have connections or you think you might know somebody who has connections, feel free to post about this to get somebody from the administration aware so that we can fully pursue this pardon. Lauren, how is Keone doing these days in prison?
- [04:04]
B
So, I mean, it is a federal prison, so it's not where he'd want to be. It's incredibly boring and frustrating. So especially someone who loves freedom and liberty, and that's what he's kind of worked for his whole life, to have that all stripped away. He spends a lot of time reading, gets through, you know, a book in a day or two, so a lot of reading. But even it gets to a point where that gets boring. So it's. He's kind of taking it one day at a time. That's all. It's all you can really do now.
- [04:42]
A
One thing I heard is that it's a different kind of prison, so he's not experiencing violence or some of the other terrible things that you would in a different kind of setting. Is that the case?
- [04:54]
B
Yeah. And it's something I'm incredibly thankful for, obviously, is his wife. It's a prison camp, which means it's the lowest level of. There aren't people that are violent, there's no sex offenders. Those kind of people are not allowed in because there's not a fence around. Is this particular camp is run more like a minimum security, just meaning that they're pretty strict as far as shakedowns and tossing cells. And there's just Some. Some variables there, but there. There isn't the violence to worry about. One of the interesting things, and he's heard, because you can work your way down from higher security levels to the slowest level of a camp. So there are people who have come from higher levels. And I said the biggest kind of difference I've noticed, which was an interesting one, is the lack of, kind of respect between inmates and each other and kind of guards to the inmates because the threat of violence isn't there. So that's just an interesting kind of note. It doesn't really affect Keone necessarily at all, but he has written about it in the Notes from the inside a little bit. So just if anyone is familiar with the prison system or I guess maybe watch some documentaries, it's just interesting.
- [06:20]
A
Yeah, no, that is curious. And what Lauren has mentioned is that Keone is actually writing some letters of his observations from prison. And as a very smart guy with a very interesting political views, Keone obviously is saying this from a fascinating perspective. Those are available on the Rage and we'll have some links for that. But on that topic, Lauren, people wants to follow kind of the latest stuff. Obviously they can listen to shows such as this, but people want to be at the cutting edge of news. What account should they be following, and any other places that Keoni is getting the message or you getting the message
- [06:57]
B
across, they're more than welcome to follow me. I kind of primarily am posting about this case because it is kind of the center of my life currently. Occasionally Keone will also send me things to post on his X account. Other than that, there are some other accounts that will follow along. But the Rage is where he's written the letters, as you've mentioned.
- [07:25]
A
Right. And we'll have the links to all the things that Lauren has mentioned. Please do give them a follow. It's also important because there's some doomers out there, like, oh, you know, there's no hope against the government. Well, it's important simply to boost the numbers up and connect with people and be able to talk to others and just show that there is this support and that people are posting about this regularly. That has a lot of value in all this. So I would encourage people, don't at all be a doomer in all this.
- [07:54]
B
That really does matter so much when these politicians or people within the administration are trying to see whether something will be valuable for President Trump or for the country at whole. Having tangible numbers or tangible engagement that says, no, this is something people care about is really what they look To So, you know, currently I think we have 15,600 some signatures on the petition. I had just done a quick search and the estimates of adults within the United States who own bitcoin is between I think 35 and 70 million. And we only have that few of signatures. So it is something that the more you talk about it, the more you share it with friends and family and let them know why it matters because there is some barrier there. A lot of people do just will believe, well, if they're arrested, they must have done something wrong and that's not the case often found out. So there is education needed. But the more people do realize the truth of the situation, the more they're talking about it, the better outcome and the quicker outcome I think we can achieve.
- [09:21]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. And so I would encourage everybody listening to at the very least before the end of this episode that you're listening to, go to billandkeoni.org, click on the button to go to the petition website and just give it a sign and then share it with somebody else. Just simple thing to do. Could you take us back, Lauren, because you were there when the raid by the FBI happens on your house and Keon's house in near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I know it's dramatic, but this is important to tell the story a little bit. Could you tell me your perspective of that night?
- [09:56]
B
Yeah, sure. So it was April 24, 2024. It was five in the morning. We were woken our dog actually I think noticed that, you know, there was something going on. So, so we woke up and there was a light rising up to our bedroom window and Keoni went over and looked out, you know, bleary eyed. And then the. I think they saw him and so on a loudspeaker. And we live in a very, we live in a historic small village, sleepy, sleepy little town. Two bedroom cottage. Like this is not, you know, this is unexpected here. Come out with your hands up. And so, you know, obviously throwing on robes and slippers. It was cold and Keone's throwing on shorts and headed downstairs. And I'm trying to get a leash on my dog because as I'm sure your listeners are aware, the police and FBI, ATF all have a propensity to shoot dogs, so wanted to make sure he was safe. And we stepped outside our door and the house was completely surrounded. We had the red laser sight dots multiple on both of our chests. You know, went out with our hands up. We were handcuffed and separated. About 40 or 50 agents were again around the house there was the FBI Hostage Rescue Task Force. They had an MRAP. They were wearing night vision goggles. They flew a drone in through our house to clear it before the agents went in to clear it. When I came back later, it was clear they had ransacked multiple rooms in the home, you know, cut open flour bags. I don't know what they were expecting. We were hiding in our kitchen flower. But it was just so over the top. And we came to find out later that this was a simultaneous international coordinated raid between our house and Bill's house in Portugal. And again, this was the first interaction that we had ever had with law enforcement. They never contacted us with a letter that's saying they're investigating us. Just like a CID letter or a don't destroy evidence letter. They never even contacted samurai asking for help, saying, you know, we think criminals might be using your software. Like, what can you tell us? Nothing. This was our first interaction was a hostile, aggressive, five in the morning raid.
- [12:34]
A
Are you dealing with any kind of PTSD or anything from that night?
- [12:38]
B
I guess not that I'm aware of. I have noticed it in our dog, who didn't used to bark at all and now is like anxious when cars drive by. So it's definitely there. I, you know, I might be. It's just something that is kind of maybe trauma after trauma that, that you just deal with because, because you have to right.
- [13:02]
A
Right now. You weren't, you were not arrested, though I believe you were handcuffed, temporarily detained in all this. Has your life or your travel or anything been complicated at all being the wife of Keoni?
- [13:14]
B
No, it hasn't, thankfully. I know, and that is something we're really blessed with because in so many cases, the way that they get to their kind of target is threatening family or threatening, you know, the wife or parents or children to indict them as well. In this case. Again, very, very thankful that they didn't take that route because that is a very usual tactic.
- [13:43]
A
You know, I know some of the audience is curious about Bill and Sabrina. They had said that they don't want to make things public really. So I just. We could, I think we should assume that they're, you know, hanging in there as well. So maybe we'll get some more information on that at some point. Lauren, just going back to, to Keone's situation, whatever you're willing to say, and are there any, is there any other drama happening? For example, Keone, kind of a high profile person for the prison, he's writing about his time in There is that causing any kind of drama?
- [14:16]
B
So it did initially, I think it was after the second notes from the inside letter had been published and around that time, so before Keoni went into prison, actually the, the start of this case, someone was interested in doing a documentary. So he had come to our house while K was still on house arrest, interviewed him here and then would go to the court, to the court hearings and did some filming, did some interviewing and is working, just following the whole case the whole way through. So he had reached out to, as you can imagine, wanting, reached out to the prison to want to interview Keoni in the prison. Well, this kind of, I guess brought Keone's name to the assistant warden's attention and Keone was called in. He was questioned about that, questioned about the fact that he was writing these articles which are complete, completely within his First Amendment right even as a federal prisoner and was threatened with solitary confinement, was threatened to be transferred to a higher level security facility, was threatened that, you know, they just, just various things and thankfully the Kony was completely within his rights. He knew this and this associate warden did, did back down and, and I guess confirm with the prison's legal counsel that yes, what he was doing was lawful. And so they didn't take any, any of these, these steps that he had been threatening. But it was, you know, it was a concern. It was. I needed to contact our lawyers on the outside and other advocates to, to see if, if something did happen. Like what do you do when you're being held in federal custody? You're, you're no longer a person, you're, you're a ward of the state. And yeah, so it was definitely an unsettling time, but that's really been the only issue so far.
- [16:37]
A
And has that been, is that okay now? Is he okay to continue writing or has that discouraged him from doing it?
- [16:46]
B
No, he's put out. So I think there's. This happened, like I said, I believe after the second or third. And so he's put out a couple articles since then because again, it is completely his constitutional First Amendment right to write and have published his thoughts even while being a federal prisoner.
- [17:08]
A
Could you remind people who maybe wants to send Keone a letter, maybe they can send him a book. Could you remind people about that and then specifically what he might be looking for?
- [17:22]
B
He's definitely looking for letters. He was, you know, when he first went in, he had received a lot that's kind of tapered off and I know something he really enjoyed and he was trying to write Back to everyone that did send him a letter. Again, it's something kind of a connection to the outside world and something to take his time to be able to read and then write back. There are some rules along mailing to an inmate. First it needs to be in a white envelope, must have a return address inside. It can be, I think it's up to five sheets of paper, nothing else. They're pretty strict about that. We've had instances where some things have just, I don't know, they say it smells of perfume or incense or whatever and have been returned. As far as books, books can be ordered but they can't be sent directly to the prison. They need to be ordered through an Amazon or another book distributor. And they can be new books only. They're also for some reason very particular about used books. They do not allow them into the prison books. He likes to read. He's I mean big on history, also likes fiction. Pretty much anything is just to just to kill the kill the time. So if you enjoy it and think he might and are willing to send I'm sure he would appreciate it.
- [18:55]
A
Absolutely. And so for people who want to send him a book, no use books. And then you either have to go into your Amazon account or buy through a book distributor online, send it to the address that's on billandkeone.org and that will have your. Does that have to have a return address on that as well?
- [19:18]
B
Gina that one does not coming from a publisher. However, if you would like to know if you would like him to know who sends it if you do on Amazon you can do a gift tag and it's we'll say from that way he's received several that he doesn't know who they're from. You know, obviously they're still appreciated. But if you would like to know him to know who they're from, then you can include that as well. And then also you know, if he's he has received from someone which he's really enjoyed, they sent him a subscription to the Epoch Times Magazine subscriptions are also welcome. So any like newspaper magazines, they kind of what's nice about it and I guess the books as well, but particularly the newspapers they get, you know, whoever receives it will then share it around with a couple different inmates so that they all get a chance to kind of again that connection to normalcy and to the outside world is. Is appreciated.
- [20:16]
A
Now Lauren, I was reading one of his recent notes and I'll quote him here. He says so he's listening to the radio While he's doing whatever he says, there's one song performed by a female singer going on and on about Ophelia. I'm not 100% certain, but I suspect it may be Taylor Swift. I enjoy the song, which I guess makes me a Swifty. Maybe someone will write me a letter telling me who sings that. And I thought that was quite revealing about just how disconnected he is. He can't even confirm if this song he's listening to is sung by somebody he thinks it is. So that's something wild to consider. But I have to ask you two questions about this. One, is that your influence that he likes this song, and two, he knows these are public, right? These letters?
- [21:00]
B
Yeah, I gave him a hard time about that. I, I am not a Swifty. I, you know, don't hate anyone who is like, do your thing. But that's just. I think I'm maybe a bit old for that genre and don't listen to contemporary. I think he's probably more up on contemporary hits than I am at this point because he is listening to the radio, which is, you know, interesting. It is a crazy situation that. So when I go and to visit him in the prison, which again, thankfully we live close enough that I'm able to go in once a week. But you enter in and you can take some money for the vending machines, your ID and as like a clear bag and that's it. So you can't have your cell phone, you can't have a watch, just kind of all these things. But how reliant I am, at least. And I think most people are on. If you have a question about something, you pull out your phone and you search for the answer. And whether it's AI or Google or whatever it is, it's right there. And to not have that ability to just know, I find very frustrating for the, you know, five hours a week I'm there while he's been in prison for, you know, over 100 days. It's, it's, it's very foreign from, from modern life on the outside.
- [22:17]
A
Absolutely. And there's obviously a lot of black moments in all this. But I'm also glad to see that he can obviously some of see some of the interesting things. Who is the skinwalker?
- [22:30]
B
So that's some. So I'm kind of right along there with everyone else reading. I mean, he had told me about, about this guy previously, but he has not had a visitor while I've been there. And I desperately want him to because I like everyone who read the notes from the inside about the skinwalker have conjured this image of, you know, a hairless, tall, tight skinned person and desperately want to see if what's in my head matches the actual guy. But unfortunately, I don't know. I have not been able to see him. I think since Keone and he mentioned in that letter, has moved to a different bunk sleeping housing section, he's a lot less perturbed by his shuffling of feet, thankfully.
- [23:33]
A
Right. Yeah. So. So we'll have people track down that, that note and read it. But basically Keon's having an interesting time observing some of the eccentric people who are around him, so we'll encourage people to. To check that out. And I'm glad he's finding some. Some interesting things while he's, you know, stuck in this horrific situation. What are you learning, Lauren, about prison and things? Like, one of the things Keoni talks about is the purposeful backwardness of all of the things within prison. I wonder if you could share a few thoughts on that.
- [24:07]
B
Yeah, you know, every, every so much of the prison system seems to be purposefully frustrating. And it goes, you know, there's a myriad of examples, but one that I'll point out that it just doesn't make any sense is there's something called a cop out. And that's a form you have to fill out as a prisoner to request pretty much anything. So Keone needed to request for tennis shoes. And the process is you have to fill this out, then you have to give it to a counselor and then they approve it. Well, the issue is instead of having these forms available just, you know, in the hallways or somewhere where the prisoners can access it, they have to track down a guard or a administrator of some sort bother them. Which, you know, if you can picture kind of that grumpy teacher that's been there and hasn't liked kids for a long time, and you're kind of afraid to ask anything of because they'll just bark at you. Like, you know, that's. These people are just, just trying to get by and get home. At the end of the day. They don't really, really want to go above and beyond. And so you're having to interrupt their days and whatever they're doing twice to go get the form, leave, fill it out, and then go turn it back into them to be approved. So just something like that, that would make their own lives easier to have again, this form readily available so they don't have to have that interaction. They don't. And that's. I mean, that's just a really small example of, you know, so many just ways that it just if you were designing a business or, you know, if this was privately run, there's just so many opportunities for improvement that will not be addressed because it's the prison and because it's, it's purposefully frustrating as part of the punishment, we think.
- [26:19]
A
Right, right. And not, not endorsing private run prisons, by the way. But yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about your, what is your life like these days? I know you're doing a lot of talks, you are being invited to go to a number of places, you're speaking to Congress and, and such. How is all of that going for you?
- [26:41]
B
So it's nothing I would have chosen for myself. This was definitely my ambitions did not lie in public speaking or, you know, trying to engage politically. That's just not, you know, not my background, not my interest.
- [26:58]
A
Right.
- [26:59]
B
But it is what's there and what needs to be done. So I'm trying the best I can to step up and fill that. Keone out of the two of us was definitely the more engaging, more articulate, better speaker. So it's big shoes to step into on his behalf, but there's only me to do it. So I'm doing my best. And he's obviously super, super appreciative of it. It's, you know, it's like I said, it's different, it's tiring, it's a, it's a steep learning curve and try not to bore people too much, try to remain positive as I, as I can. But, you know, it's, it's hard as we are seeking a pardon, this is now into the realms of the political and with that comes a lot of maybe baggage as to, and this goes back to what we said before, that they want to see that this is a popular choice, that people care about this issue. It's not even so much that this is the right thing, that this is the just thing to do. It's what does the American populace care about? And so if they know this is something they care about, if they know this is going to be a popular choice and not get a bunch of pushback, then it is something that they're more likely to take to President Trump. I think President Trump himself would, because this is the Southern district of New York, is the same office that came after him. He knows their tactics, he knows that they lie and they manipulate and they twist facts and that they'll do anything to win. So it's not necessarily President Trump that we're trying to, just trying to get to him. Because I think once he would see this or hear about this case himself, he would go, yeah, of course, I get it. Because he has experienced this. It's just getting to him and getting over, you know, he's the President of the United States. He's a very busy man. He's got a lot going on. So there's advisors and people that, that kind of curate and this is I guess my speculation that they kind of curate what gets to his attention. So that's why it's so important to try to raise the awareness and continue to put the message out there so that in the hope that it will get his attention.
- [29:38]
A
Right. You've been very active posting about all sorts of interesting things. And as a result of really getting into this, I have noticed that you have noticed the other just bizarre injustices, hypocrisies going on both in the case of Samurai Wall and just beyond what has been your experience just more broadly about the, what I call the legal industrial complex. And you know, how has your thoughts on things maybe changed or been refined in the last year of doing this?
- [30:09]
B
Yeah, so I, I don't, I like a lot of women. I liked true crime podcasts, I liked wrongful conviction podcasts. And so I was aware that the justice system doesn't always get it right. You know, there's bad prosecutor, the, you know, whatever, cops are bad here and there. But it wasn't until coming, experiencing this, having, having this case thrust upon us that I realized how pervasive it is. And specifically in the federal cases and in like corporate cases, the amount of people that have come out and said, you know, oh, that your case, that happened to me too. That happened to me. The same, same thing. You know, it's just over and over again these, these kind of playbooks that these prosecutors work on. And it's not because they're, you know, they want to get to the bottom of the truth. That's really doesn't matter at all in federal cases. What matters is they want to win. And then they want to turn these notches, these wins notches in their belts into either high paying, you know, defense positions at private law firms or into political careers. Every single attorney, defense attorney we spoke to when trying to get a defense team for this case, the first thing they led with was they were previous prosecutors within the Southern District of New York. That's weird. And then these other cases that again, people have brought to me, they're all, if you look even Slightly below the surface of what the prosecution puts out in their giant press memos. You go, that can't. That can't be real. That can't be what happened. There's a guy, Michael Castellero, who, he's awaiting sentencing right now. His whole company, his profitable company, they took it, they became like managers of it and stripped it, while during his court case, and stripped it of $20 million, leaving their investors without money. The government just stole this money. There's a couple, Chris and Aaron Mazzy. They were doing a. A documentary. Not a documentary, they're doing a film about corruption and I believe it was in Hawaii back in the 70s or something, and made the government there look bad. They were both indicted and, you know, lives again, torn apart over is just almost comical. There's a guy, Ed Rosenberg, that Amazon, as a private company, had a dispute with him that again, could have probably been easily handled privately or with an arbitrator. They took it and sicked the DOJ on him. And then there's this guy, Dr. Ron Elfenben. I don't know if I'm saying his name right. He was indicted after speaking out against Biden's Covid response. A judge actually threw out his case. And yet they're charging him again. And then we go into, like, Roman Storm, whose case is very similar to Tornado Cash's very similar case, and brought in the same court as. As our case as, you know, Samurai Wallet's case. And they're again charging, bringing more charges against him. He's going back to court, I should say. So it's just all of these cases, when you look a little bit deeper, it's just there's such corruption. It's shocking. And it comes to a point where I don't. The problem seems so vast that I can't even comprehend how you would start to tackle it, because it's so pervasive within the doj. And it's not, you know, a new president comes in. President Trump came in and he put his, his team in place. But, you know, that's the ag, the deputy ag, These kind of heads of branches. The problem lies in the Assistant U.S. attorneys. These are the lower level, you know, bureaucrats. They're not appointed, they're not elected, and they're the ones that are actually bringing the cases. The other issue is that I believe it's like 84, maybe higher. Percent of DOJ employees donated to Democratic campaigns. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that our case was, you know, our case was about Bitcoin and Whether you like freedom money or not. But some other cases maybe are political and how you can get. And ours was political in that way, but not maybe left right so much, but how you could get a fair trial, a fair hearing, a fair investigation with that large of a disparity, it's just not possible.
- [35:30]
A
It is a little bit of a black pill to take. And I would encourage people who are looking to take action. What you can do is you can go to billandkey.org, sign the petition. Certainly it's good to do something simple that can have a ripple effect and also consider donating to the cause. I know, Lauren, it's. It's awkward to, you know, talk about fundraising and such, but I wonder maybe you could talk a little bit, remind people about the financial situation. It's not just that Keoni was, you know, sent to prison for five years and then three years of supervised release, but there's financial. Serious financial hit that was done here for somebody who was, you know, earning money, and now he can't even do that. Could you remind people a little bit of all of that stuff?
- [36:15]
B
Yeah. So, you know, we were never. They. They didn't create samurai to become, you know, wealthy, was run as a business. They tried to keep the fees low. They had employees they were paying. That's. That's first off. So it wasn't. We weren't starting from a place of. Of mass wealth. And then this case came about, and they. One of the stipulations was, you can't use any cryptocurrencies. No. Interacting with cryptocurrencies, that's what our life savings was. That's what the company's funds were kept in. We were not a fiat household. So that came about, and, you know, thankfully, the Bitcoin Policy Institute set up a defense fund. They were, you know, the only ones who stepped up to do that. And we're really grateful to them and for the people who contributed to that. That BPI was able to raise around a million dollars that was split evenly between our defense counsel and Bill's defense counsel. Unfortunately, it was nowhere near enough. I looked up some. Some stats on this, and Roman's case proves it to be true. To take within the Southern district of New York, to take a technically complex case to trial, you are looking at around $13 million per defendant. We did not have that kind of money. Jeez. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's probably part of the reasons they bring these cases in the Southern district of New York is because they know you know, the process is part of the punishment. We have additional punishment on top, but the process is also a punishment. And we, you know, it did end up not going to trial. Keoni and Bill decided to plead out due to, you know, various biases of the judge and other factors like that. But we are still, you know, millions of dollars in debt, legal debt, from where we were on top of. When he gets out, he will have, he has an additional $250,000 fine on top of the million dollars. We're in debt. So it's, you know, it's not, it's not a place you'd wish anyone to be in. And it's hard because they did. This is a company. Samurai was a company that, you know, as you said at the beginning, they, they built and they worked on. They, they poured in money, blood, sweat, tears, hours for 10 years. And part of the plea was also that they had to forfeit the entire gross earnings that Samurai made over those 10 years. So all gone. So there was nothing, nothing left. And yeah, it's just, it's, it is what it is. And we're, we're getting on but, you know, not, not a place you'd want to be spending then coming out of prison after, after five years not having worked and then, yeah, all the debt sitting, sitting on top.
- [39:29]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. So you're listening, you're wondering, what can I do? Well, you can change. You can help individuals here, right, by, by donating. This helps Lauren, this helps Sabrina, who is Bill's wife, and it also helps Bill and Keone to get out free with less debt or no debt. So please consider helping them out as individuals. One of the cathartic things I would say, Lauren, when Keone was doing a number of interviews on high profile platforms before he showed up to prison, was listening to the interviewer. Obviously some of these people didn't know him. So they're going in, they're trying to be neutral, they're trying to understand what's going on. You know, maybe this guy is guilty of something. And then within like the first two minutes, you could tell that they're like, oh, this is just bs Basically. It was a common theme in all these discussions. And one thing that Kim Iverson said was she said to county, you're a victim of choke point 2.0. Could you unpack that a little bit?
- [40:31]
B
Yeah. So, you know, it was, she said this, and I've heard a lot of people bring this up. And choke point 2.0 was during the Biden administration, a real crackdown on crypto businesses from kind of, it was, it was twofold. It was the pressure put onto banks to debank these companies and individuals. And then it was also the ambiguity within the SEC's kind of regulations that they were, it wasn't clear, clearly defined and then they were indicting and charging people kind of similar to the, as they did with Keoni and Bill for violating things that that wasn't clear. The one difference in ours I would say is that the regulator FinCEN, which stands for the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, they were actually very clear as to the guidelines and regulations and laws surrounding what would be applicable to Samurai Wallet as a non custodial software provider. And they had put out guidelines in 2013 and then reiterated them in 2019. And it is what Keone and Bill followed to stay within the bounds of the law. And they did. What's extra interesting with that is our prosecutor, six months prior to indictment contacted FinCEN and said, you know, do you think that Samurai Wallet guys are, are breaking this law? And they emphatically said no, they're not, they're non custodial, therefore they are not money transmitters. And if you're not money transmitter then you don't need to follow KYC aml, which is anti money laundering, you know, regulations. So the regulator that is under treasury whose Congress gives them the authority to implement and track these laws, these financial laws, said no. And yet the prosecution went ahead and charged for those same laws. It's kind of crazy in that sense.
- [43:03]
A
I would encourage people certainly to track down some of those interviews. There's nine of them, I think displayed on billandkeony.org There's a lot that you can dive into even beyond Samurai Wallet. Keoni, Bill, as Lauren was saying, there's a lot of craziness happening in the legal industrial complex these days. So Lauren, another update recently is that Samuraiwallet.com, the website that in April of 2024 had the FBI cease logo on it, it seems to have been bought by scammers. What's the deal with Samuraiwallet.com so I
- [43:40]
B
think you're exactly correct. That was one of the properties that was forfeited to the federal government. And that's just another indication that this was never about law, this was never about crime. This was about stopping people, stopping your listeners from being able to transact with their money privately. That's the only reason if they care. If it was about stopping criminals, you know, they would have taken steps to try to protect people and they didn't even from when they, they arrested and took down the servers. So Samurai Wallet being non custodial, there was no chance of people losing money with the service. No one did. There was never any complaints. There was actually never through discovery. You know, no one. This was all on their own initiative. No one came to the feds and said, you know, this is we think they're doing wrong or we lost money. That just wasn't possible with the way that the app, the code was written. But this is now the second case, second instance, where because of the actions of these federal prosecutors, individuals are likely to have been scammed and lost money when they took down the servers. Sure, more than a handful of people freaked out and trusted or weren't, maybe were anxious and tried to move their bitcoin off of Samurai Wallet and got scammed that way. And now here's another instance where the government allowed this website, the Samurai Wallet website, to be purchased by scammers and set up again. It's just ridiculous that they are causing harm. And yet the people in prison are Keoni and Bill.
- [45:38]
A
Absolutely. So we'll wind this down here, Lauren, and give you some final thoughts. And I'll just say to people, please check out billandkeone.org if you think you can help Lauren in some way, make connections or invite her to your platform or suggest her onto a platform. And of course, the bigger the better. The more outside of bitcoin, the better. Those are always good things. Of course, the larger the platform, the better. And thank you so much, Lauren, for, for sharing your thoughts and I'll give you the final words, whatever you'd like to say.
- [46:10]
B
Well, thank you again so much for having me on. And I'll just say that, you know, a lot of people think, well, what can I do? And I know I feel this way a lot in this situation, but it's something that Ross Albrecht and his mother Lynn also, you know, reiterated that in their case and getting him a pardon, the signatures, the fact that they were able to show a hundred thousand people had signed and were in support of pardoning Ross, that really did make a difference in his pardon. So, you know, each signature, each kind of interaction, telling people it really does matter. And, you know, so I just want to thank you if you already have signed and just encourage you if you haven't, that it does matter. And you know, getting, getting that friend, getting that family to sign as well would just be so grateful. So thank you.
- [47:06]
A
Hey, thanks for listening. I could really use your help real quick if you could share this episode with someone. Engage with me. Leave a review anywhere.
- [47:12]
B
Thank you.
- [47:12]
A
This helps me to break the technocratic shadow banning that is happening with my brand. And of course, if you really want to escape the technocracy, go to escapethetechnocracy.com privacy tutorial, series, books, newsletters, consulting and of course you can leave a donation. Thank you very much.
- [47:38]
B
Sam. It.