The Other OTYs (with Will LaPorte)

Summary

Wavelengths with Brendon Bigley – Episode Summary

Episode: The Other OTYs (with Will LaPorte)
Date: January 9, 2026
Host: Brendon Bigley
Guest: Will LaPorte

Episode Overview

In this special episode of Wavelengths, Brendon Bigley welcomes his friend and resident film/music aficionado Will LaPorte to discuss their favorite albums and movies of 2025. Departing from their usual video game focus, they each share top ten lists for both albums and movies, alternating between each category and diving into what made these works stand out. The conversation is rich with personal insights, reflections on art, culture, technology, and the shifting terrain of music and film in 2025.

"Just imagine: Being normal about games for once? It's more likely than you think."
— (00:00, Brendon Bigley)

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Key Discussion Points & Episode Structure

Setting the Scene & Format

• Brendon introduces a new studio space and updates listeners on life changes.
• Explains that this is an extra-long, off-format episode focused exclusively on music and movies.
• Brendon and Will plan to alternate between their top 10 albums and movies of 2025, discussing each in detail.

---

Albums & Music in 2025

Trends Noted:

• A turn away from streaming services like Spotify, driven by corporate ethics, algorithm dissatisfaction, and a longing for more direct ownership of music.
  • Notably, the book Mood Machine by Liz Pelly fuels this backlash (12:16).
• Increased engagement with music videos and artist intent, a return to "active" music listening (11:19).
• Algorithmic discovery (even on platforms like TikTok) is discussed as a double-edged sword.
• The continued rise of hyperpop, experimental, and electronic music; influence of privilege and background in artist success.
• Album art and aesthetic as crucial to the listening experience.

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Notable Album Picks & Quotes

• Geese – Getting Killed
  "It's just a really good record...even the people who're acknowledging that this corporate machination, injecting of Geese into everyone's veins feels a little dirty, have to also admit that it's just a really good record."
  — Will, (06:39)

  • Discussion on the band's origins, privilege, and the importance of artistic growth.
  • Talk about the standout song "Taxes" and Cameron Winter's meteoric rise (08:41).
  • Brendon's Album of the Year (#1).

• Sedan Archives – BPM
  "I immediately put it on the TV...blasted it in the house while I was doing chores and lost my goddamn marbles."
  — Brendon, (09:54)

  • Praised for its inventiveness and unpredictability; considered "the most bisexual album since Blount" (66:03, Will).

• Nina Jirachi – I Love My Computer
  "It's one of the best and most inventive electronic, hyperpop, like bubble gummy records I've heard this year. It explores the Internet in such a cool and satisfying way."
  — Will, (24:09)

  • Deeply discussed as an album that captures millennial/Gen Z Internet nostalgia, complete with commentary on digital identity and alienation.
  • Major themes: love/hate relationship with technology; album art highly praised.
  • Brendon's #2 Album of the Year.

• Other Standouts

  • Null, Null EP – Punk supergroup, discovered via TikTok.
  • Deftones, Private Music – Cathartic, "bratty," and still strong after two decades.
  • PinkPantheress, Fancy That – Rich pop with Y2K influences, full-album appreciation.
  • Frost Children, Sister – Synth-pop/emo/hyperpop hybrid, "the kids are all right" album.

• Album Art as Experience:
  Will places a surprising emphasis on album covers, framing them as essential to the experience and interpretation of the record (67:03, 132:47).

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Movies & Cinema in 2025

Trends Noted:

• The shift to video store-style movie rental models (e.g. Letterboxd Video Store).
• Critical attention to the political context of films—pandemic, tech, fascism, colonialism, and generational trauma are frequent themes.
• Many strong performances and an unusually competitive year for Oscars.
• Genre filmmaking is embraced as a vehicle for deeper explorations of modern anxieties (horror, sci-fi, art house, superhero films).

---

Notable Movie Picks & Quotes

• Sinners
  "There's one scene...that is one of the best uses of diegetic music and one of the craziest scenes I've ever seen in a film...I was gripping my chair, unable to believe what I was watching."
  — Will, (162:18)

  • A Ryan Coogler genre epic about Black music, generational trauma, and exploitation; lauded for style, substance, and cultural resonance.
  • Brendon's #1 Movie of the Year, Will's #2.

• Sentimental Value
  "This is a movie about getting through your complicated relationship with your father via the power of your siblings and loving them. And it hit like a truck."
  — Will, (44:20)

  • Highly personal, compared to "Drive My Car"; a meditation on grief, generational estrangement, and art as communication.
  • Brendon's #2 Movie of the Year.

• Wake Up Deadman (Knives Out 3 by Rian Johnson)
  "While it does have bits and pieces that are a little bit too on the nose...on the whole, it's part of this collection of media...asking larger questions about faith's role in modern life."
  — Brendon, (72:58)

  • Praised for its exploration of faith, religion, and personal crisis.

• 28 Years Later
  "It was one of those movies that, when I left, I knew I had to see it again."
  — Will, (163:09)

  • Sequel to "28 Days" and "28 Weeks Later," regarded as an artful, unexpected reinvigoration of the zombie genre.
  • Both saw it together; parallels drawn to Miyazaki's work in tone and visual.

• Blue Moon
  "Ethan Hawke...is not Ethan Hawke. It is Lorenz Hart. He is basically transformative in this thing...the best performance I've seen this year."
  — Brendon, (116:18)

  • Powerful, mostly monologue-driven exploration of artistic legacy and self-hatred.

• One Battle After Another (Paul Thomas Anderson)
  "The fastest three hours I've ever had in a movie theater."
  — Brendon, (144:01)

  • Fantastical, politically charged, with standout performances and commentary on whiteness and power.

• No Other Choice (Park Chan-wook)
  "It's like falling apart like sand through my fingers trying to describe why every single moment hits me like a truck...In my opinion, perfect movie."
  — Will, (194:51)

  • Will’s #1 of 2025. A dark comedy, nihilistic yet engrossing, unique for its raw empathy and narrative structure.

• Weapons (Zach Cregger)
  "Packed horror theaters where people are screaming at the screen—that rocks."
  — Brendon, (95:44)

  • Not just horror: a pointed meditation on generational neglect and the failures of authority.

• Superman (James Gunn)
  "This movie was so optimistic and so considerate and so caring...I really needed to see that this year."
  — Will, (58:14)

• Materialists (Celine Song)
  "It is very pointedly not a romcom, even though the movie sets itself up that way..."
  — Brendon, (47:16)

• No Other Land (Documentary)
  Recommended by Will as a must-watch political doc about settler colonialism and Palestinian lives.

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Quotes & Standout Moments

• On Quitting Spotify:
  "The thing about Spotify is those scandals don't go away. They haven't reverted, they haven't changed their minds..."
  — Brendon, (13:13)

• On Music Videos:
  "[I] struggle to look up and watch a music video. I would like to get past that...start engaging with the artist's intent..."
  — Will, (11:19)

• On Art as Survival:
  "That's the best kind of art. The art that gets you back into art. Especially making it."
  — Brendon, (83:32)

• On Generational Pain in Filmmaking:
  "How did he know? How do parents know? How do you still relate even when you're not speaking? It feels like this sixth sense empathy..."
  — Will, (174:52)

• On Cultural Connection:
  "Listening to this record makes me—makes me feel Puerto Rican."
  — Will, (178:15, on Bad Bunny's DTMF)

• On Album Art:
  "It needs to inform the experience of making the record and what you're trying to put forth."
  — Will, (67:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–04:05: Introduction, format overview, banter
• 04:30–16:43: Albums #10 and #9 discussion; streaming/tech fatigue
• 16:43–23:39: Movies #10 and #9
• 24:09–41:32: Albums #8 and #7 (album art, TikTok discovery, Deftones, PinkPantheress, etc.)
• 44:20–51:55: Movies #8 and #7
• 52:02–65:45: Albums #6 and #5 (BPM, Eliza, art as lifeline)
• 65:54–70:50: Movies #6 and #5
• 77:20–83:19: Albums #5 through #1 (OPN, jsam, Bad Bunny, Geese, etc.)
• 87:17–108:09: Movies #5 through #1 (Weapons, Blue Moon, Sinners, Sentimental Value, No Other Choice, etc.)
• 192:19–199:51: Will’s #1 movie: No Other Choice
• 200:02–208:38: Brendon’s #1 movie: Sinners
• 209:28–End: Closing thoughts, hunger, plugs, gratitude.

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The Wavelengths Tone & Takeaways

The episode is relaxed, conversational, and brimming with genuine enthusiasm for art—mixing personal anecdotes, cultural criticism, and critical analysis. Brendon and Will move freely between deep feeling and humor, conveying how art is tangled up with identity, memory, activism, and survival.

“It’s one of those lines that when I heard it I was like, so mad that I hadn’t written it, you know, which I feel like is, to me … If you’re a person who makes things, every once in a while you get this, like, creative envy …”
— Brendon, (185:43, on Geese - "Taxes")

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Notable Closing: Where To Find Will LaPorte

• Ghost Down Online (blog/website)
• Newsletter (linked via his website, comes out every other Tuesday)
• Active in the "Film General" channel on the Wavelengths Discord

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a treasure trove for anyone interested in the state of music and film in 2025. It’s big-hearted, honest, and invites listeners to revisit or discover the most vital cultural works of the year, often in the spirit of survival and making sense of a chaotic world.

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“The rest is history. Yeah. Wow.
We did it. Those are albums and movies.”
— (209:26, Brendon & Will)

Transcript

[A]

Hello, and welcome to Wavelengths. It's usually video game news. For the rest of us, I'm still your host, Brendan Bigley. This week, it's gonna be something kind of different. This week is gonna be all about the best albums and movies of 2025. I was joined by my friend Will, who is a person who sees a lot of movies, listens to a lot of music, who I thought would be fun to have a conversation with. And we thought it'd be a short one and ended up being a really long one. So I won't make this intro too long. I will say, though, this is the first episode that I'm recording in a new space. For those of you watching via the Patreon, this is the only bit that will be in video, but you can see that I'm in a new space. And this space used to be the bedroom of our apartment and is now the office and recording studio, which is fun. And what used to be the office that I recorded in is now our bedroom. My wife and I, for the past week, we've been going through everything we own, figuring out what to keep selling, giveaway, or throw away, which has been an extremely long process. It's taken basically all week so far, but it's just about done. Or at least with this part. We still have other things that we need to do, but, you know, it's kind of a new, exciting kickoff to 2026. The two of us just realizing that we needed more space to do what we do. My wife also makes YouTube videos and Instagram stuff and. And TikTok about fashion. So I think we just needed. We just realized that we needed, like, a better space to shoot YouTube videos in. So that's what we built, which is really exciting. I'm really stoked about it. And right now my desk is looking basically the same as it did, but with, like, a couple new additions here and there. But generally speaking, we're probably going to get some, like, lights in here and stuff. I don't know. I don't need to go on and on about it, but I'm just really excited about it. It feels like a, you know, doubling down on what started last year. So I just want to say a huge thank you to everybody who listens to this show and supports the show. If you are one of the Patreon backers, thank you so much. If you're one of the people who upgraded to the yearly subscription, that was very cool. Thank you for doing that as well. Just really, really glad to keep doing this. And in Case, you've been wondering why I've been MIA for a little bit. That's why we've been working on it. I took a little bit of a holiday break, like a real holiday break, but then also just been working on this ever since the new year started. So next week, expect to see me come back with a bunch of stuff. New episodes of Signal Check and Streams and short form stuff and a bunch of videos that are in the hopper that I'm really excited to work on. So, yeah, stay tuned. Be back next week with like the normal stuff, the real stuff. But for now, not to say this isn't real, because this is very real. It's a very long MP3 file that you're about to listen to me and my friend Will talking about movies and albums. Bye. Bye. Hi, Will.

[B]

How's it going?

[A]

I'm doing great. How are you?

[B]

I'm good. I had a lot of sugar this morning and a lot of coffee this morning. Yeah.

[A]

You got a pastry? What? Pastries. Do you do pastries?

[B]

I got a kouign aman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do people know what a Kouaman is?

[A]

I don't know. Explain it.

[B]

So it's like, imagine you roll the croissant into like a kind of hockey puck and then you burnt sugar on the top.

[A]

Yeah, baby.

[B]

And. And it's real good.

[A]

That's the good stuff. Yeah.

[B]

And I also had a chocolate filled donut.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's Champions Decadent breakfast. Yeah. My parents got Percy and I a waffle iron that makes waffles shaped like snowflakes. And we didn't clean it before we turned it on for the first time. So it just filled the whole house with like the smell of chemicals that will probably kill us. So then we pulled out our normal waffle iron and made waffles as well.

[B]

That's how you break it in.

[A]

That's how you tell you break it in. You got it. You got to burn off the chemicals. That might actually be true. I don't know. I'm not really sure. I imagine you're just supposed to wash it first. We're here to talk about movies and albums. Before we started recording, you said you wanted to do movies first.

[B]

Well, we were debating whether to do movies first or albums first or alternating between movies and albums. And then Brendan suggested doing five movies, then five albums, then five more movies than five more albums.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we kind of landed back on two separate lists.

[A]

Yeah. But now that we're recording, we're talking about it. I feel like people are Gonna want the chaos. So maybe we just go with your idea. You wanna do it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, let's do it. All right. What do you wanna do first still? Which number 10 do you wanna do? Movies or. We're doing top 10 lists, by the way, folks. Do you wanna do your number 10 movie or your number 10 album first?

[B]

Let's do number 10 album, because you have a lot to say about this one, too.

[A]

Oh, do I? Great.

[B]

Yeah. My number 10 album.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't mind me kicking it off.

[A]

Please, please.

[B]

Is the Geese album Getting Killed.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. That's not even that album. There's a bomb in my car. What an opening.

[B]

Truly, it. Both of the openings of their past two records.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are absolutely insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like whirlwinds of cacophony and sound. It's.

[A]

Can you. Can you explain to people? Because I think you're. You're more tapped in than I am, and I came to this stuff pretty recently. Can you explain to people the geese phenomenon?

[B]

So a little bit. Geese have been around for I. Almost a decade at this point.

[A]

Yeah. 2016 was their first release, and they

[B]

released a very good album that I think was their. Their first breakthrough, at least into, you know, big music listening circles was 3D country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That record's real good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of good tunes on it. A lot of. Really. There's like a jazzy, psychedelic, really experimental rock, similarly to Getting Killed. A lot of yelling and screaming and pleading.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sexiness. Oh, and then Cameron Winter released a solo record in December that also kind of blew up.

[A]

Yeah. But Cameron Winter is the front man.

[B]

But Getting Killed got them huge. I don't know what happened. I. I don't necessarily know why they got as big as they did. Like, who shook whose hand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Getting Killed got Geese profiled in all of the biggest music magazines like Rolling Stone and Pitchfork and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They had interviews and YouTube shorts, and you couldn't really kick a rock without hearing their music in a bar or cafe or something.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they were a phenomenon, especially here in New York.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because they're. They're from here.

[A]

They're from Brooklyn. Yeah.

[B]

So because of that, myself and a few other people I know were kind of like, well, now I don't want to. I don't want to listen to it anymore because they're being, like, shoved down my throat, essentially.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then I did. I did listen to the record.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I was like, man, this really does justify how huge they got, because it really is that good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Even the people who are acknowledging that this corporate machination, injecting of Geese into everyone's veins feels a little dirty have to also admit that it's just a really good record.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's one of those situations where, like, if you look into it at all, they all come from, like, very privileged backgrounds, you know, like Cameron Winter in general. I think his dad is a composer, his mom is like the writer of the book on polyamory. And. Yeah, and then I think it's their drummer or their bassist whose dad or I think worked like in the record industry, like as a producer. So, like, definitely not coming from nowhere. But on the flip side, they put in the work. You know, they've been around for a decade. And if you listen to all of their releases, like, they've been putting in very solid amount of effort that entire time. It's not. It's not like, you know, I feel like Lana Del Rey is the one I always point at whose work I really enjoy. To be clear, Norman fucking Rockwell is like an all timer album, in my opinion.

[B]

I'm nodding.

[A]

Yeah. But also, before she became, quote, unquote, Lana Del Rey, she had like four or five other projects because her like, very rich parents just kept like rebranding her and giving her a shot with different musical styles until one, like, took hold culturally. And that's not the case with Geese. They've just been geese the whole time. And they've been honing this sound and getting better and better and better until Getting Killed came out. And it's really well deserved. And then I think the bigger, the biggest thing. And this, this was the moment that really made me be like, oh, shit, this is real. Is Cameron Winter specifically headlining a solo show at Carnegie hall couple weeks ago? He's like. He's 23. It's worth mentioning, I think the last person to have done that was Bob Dylan.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It's pretty wild. Like at that age. It's pretty wild. Like, it's. It's the. It's a real deal situation, you know, And I think it's. It's one of those cases where you go from, I am. I can't, as you said, kick a rock without hearing about Geese to, like, I can't turn on any music player without listening to Geese of my own

[B]

accord, you know, I think I listened to the song Husbands 100,000 times. That song rocks.

[A]

Yeah. Is that your favorite song on there?

[B]

It's Between Husbands and oh, Pais de Cocaine. Yeah, I think those two because. And they're so heavy with like sad yearning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That they. They're really addictive. If you want to put yourself in some kind of like walking through New York City streets and your crush isn't texting you back mood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You put those two songs on.

[A]

Yeah, that, that album, that album is. Is fantastic. And I might talk about it later. Do you have more to say about getting killed?

[B]

Check it out. It's good.

[A]

It's a good hot take. Good album.

[B]

Hot take. Despite what everyone wants you to believe about geese being good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They are good.

[A]

Yeah. My number 10 is an album that I know you know and care about because you showed it to me. It's the BPM by Sedan Archives. I remember you sent me this one. I immediately. We're sitting in my living room right now. I immediately put it on the TV that we're sitting in front of right now, which has like some nice big speakers plugged into it. And I just like blasted it in the house while I was doing chores and lost my goddamn marbles listening to it. I was like, I was just so blown away by the inventiveness of every moment of it. One of the albums that it reminded me of in terms of like setting up some expectations and then kicking them out over and over and over again. Are you. Are you a Smino fan?

[B]

A little bit. I like love for you and I like. I'll peep Smino every now and then.

[A]

Yeah. Noir is like another one of those all time albums for me because it's like every song I think I know what I'm getting into. And then 14 seconds later, it like just mutates into something completely different. That's how I felt listening to this one. And every time I've gone back to it, I've just been like blown away by it over and over and over and over again. I think it's fantastic. Everybody should check it out. Very cool album art also. And also the music videos off of this one are really good. I feel like music videos have come back this year. Maybe they've always been around. Maybe they never really went away. But I feel like I've been watching more music videos this year than I have in like previous years. Maybe going back to like the VH1 top 20 era. How do you feel about that?

[B]

I am a person who really struggles to look up and watch a music video. I would like to get past that because I'd like to start engaging with the artists intent of a record and the visual ideas that surround their music more. But there's always a wall between myself and my desire to actually sit and watch one. But I do think that this year now that it feels like more people are leaning away from just kind of consuming whatever slop hits them and trying to engage more intentionally with people's music and people's art, that it makes sense that people would want to look up and watch a music video more.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is also, I think the year probably worth mentioning that a lot of people have just started like very vocally moving away from streaming services. Will's giving me a big thumbs up. Will's been like an anti Spotify. I don't even know, like Warrior, maybe how I'd put it.

[B]

It's been a long several years now

[A]

of yeah, whatever the opposite of proselytizing is is what you've been doing for Spotify.

[B]

I have been singing, yeah. The opposite of praise about Spotify for a long time. And then this year the book Mood Machine came out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By Liz Pelly. And I read that and it made me even more of a hater. But it also made a lot of people even more of a hater and more aware of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What that kind of algorithm based like corporation pushed music listening is doing to people's tastes and ideas of art.

[A]

Yeah, I'm working on a piece right now. I don't know when it'll come out or like what form it's going to take, but I'm working on a piece right now specifically about like the move that I made also off of streaming services and into like a locally hosted MP3 library again. And I got a Zune and Percy has an ipod now. And like, that's just kind of what's happening. But one thing that I was doing while starting that piece was like looking up the history of Spotify scandals. And it's just like every single one you find is a reason to quit Spotify. And the thing, the thing about Spotify that, I mean, makes me laugh as maybe making light of it too much. But like those scan, those scandals don't go away. They haven't revert, they haven't changed their minds about anything they've ever done. But the news cycle obviously moves on and then you learn something new that's horrible about Spotify. Again, that also is another reason to quit Spotify. But again, none of the scandals that have happened before, the most recent one you heard about, whatever it may be, have gone away. So it's like compounding reasons to leave Spotify specifically. And I think one thing I'm curious Your take on this. I think one thing in particular is people are like, oh, well, they're all bad. You know, but also my feeling about it has always been like, you know, you might be going from Spotify to Apple music, which is like not that much better in certain ways, but it is slightly better in some ways. And by taking a stand at all and doing one small thing that you have the power to do, which is quit, you make a statement. And that's better than not making a statement, which is what people are arguing for when they say it's all bad. You know, it's like it's the. The. Yet you participate in society somewhat. Meme.

[B]

Yeah. I guess this does relate to music and the bpm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. But I think constantly of the ending of Tenet.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Whenever we like, this comes up, like, no ethical consumption. Etc.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where Robert Pattinson's character says, what's happened, happened is an expression of faith in the mechanics of the world. It's not an excuse to do nothing. People sitting on their hands and saying, well, you know, the ICE ads are bad, but like, what difference does it know? It does make a difference to. For yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For your own conscience, say, well, if you're going to advertise ICE to me and double down on advertising ICE to me and like recruitment, try to recruit me to this fascist agency, I'm gonna walk away.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like for yourself, let alone for corporate reasons or which corporation's better. Just doing it for you, for your own mind, for your own heart is a good thing to do.

[A]

Yeah. And if you enjoy, like there's that political side of it. Right. Which you could take a stand against. But then there's also just like at its very basic foundational level, there's like, if you listen to their algorithmic playlists at all, they're just shoving AI generated bans at you because then they don't have to pay them, so they get to keep more money instead of paying artists more, which is so evil. It's like every, every decision is so evil. I don't know. We don't have to. It doesn't have to be a laundry list of the reasons to quit Spotify. But like, those are two great ones. Not to mention Covid denialism. You know, if we go all the way back to 2020, lot of, a lot of weird bullshit with that company. But anyway, that's. That's been a big shift.

[B]

That's also the magic of having your own music, like, library set up in your house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is you can do things like pull up the BPM and blast it while doing laundry and not have to think about where that music's coming from.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Because it's yours.

[A]

Let's do a number 10 movie. What's your number 10 movie, Will?

[B]

My number 10 movie is Chainsaw man the movie Res arc.

[A]

Chainsaw man the movie. Yeah. You love Chainsaw Man. I. I shouldn't be surprised by this one.

[B]

I will spare the listener me going on a very protracted rant about Chainsaw Man. But I do love Denji. I love the series. It is my favorite comic ever. Which was not true a few years ago. But over the course of reading the newest releases in Part two, there's so much depth to this series that it requires a little bit of work. You have to get beyond the Denji's. I want to touch a boob character moments in the very beginning. But once you do, you're rewarded with a really rich and tragic world. A really beautiful and layered story about survival and grief. And the Res arc is. It feels like this modern Romeo and Juliet. It's a love story about two characters who don't think they can love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And beyond the. The way it's, like, beautifully animated. The score is incredible. All the things that make a good movie. It's just some action that you kind of can't see or imagine anywhere else. There's really nothing like the way Chainsaw man looks and feels. I'm a big manga head. I don't typically prefer anime, but I made the exception for this movie and it was so worth it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like some images that you kind of just can't believe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Happening on a giant screen.

[A]

Yeah. So in theaters. Yeah.

[B]

I did. I got to see that.

[A]

Must have been great.

[B]

It was. Chainsaw man makes me really sad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For obvious reasons. And I also am caught up. So I know everything that happens in the post of this movie. But it was. It was like eye candy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really sad eye candy.

[A]

That's great. Wow. Was everyone in the theater crying with you?

[B]

Sometimes not. I don't mean to bring this down too much, but sometimes some things make me so sad that I can't cry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was not crying during Chainsaw Man.

[A]

That's fair. That's.

[B]

But everyone was pretty moved and silent and locked in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was a packed theater. I think I, like, barely got a ticket.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For. I think it was the Regal by. Or the AMC by Union Square.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Just very good.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. Chainsaw Man.

[B]

What's your number? 10 movie.

[A]

My number 10 movie. I think it's one that you didn't see, but it's Sore a wife from the future. Have you watched this yet?

[B]

I haven't even heard of that.

[A]

Okay, so you and I are big letterboxd heads. Letterboxd is an app for raiding and just keeping track of movies, making watch lists, stuff like that. High recommendation. If you don't have a letterbox, sign up for it. It's like, maybe one of the only good social platforms that exists. But anyway, Letterboxd this year started a streaming service. Did you know this? Yeah. They have a thing. It's called, I think. What is it called? I think it's called, like, the rental store.

[B]

Like the video store?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the letterboxd video store, exactly. So they have this thing called the Letterbox Video Store where they're going out and they're finding movies that are playing at. Playing at. Oh, what is it called? How did I just forget the, like, festival. Like, film festivals and stuff that don't have distribution and, like, saying, we'll distribute your movie for you to our community of, like, extreme film freaks. And they had this first wave of them, I think it was, like, 10 movies they launched it with. And I just basically sorted all of them by which one had the highest average rating. So I was like, I just want to. I just want to watch one for now and see how it feels. And this was it. It was sorai Away from the Future. It's directed by a director named Yandy Lawrence. And the conceit, I don't want to say too much about it because actually the review that was on the app that made me want to watch it was somebody who literally said, don't read anything else, Just watch it. Which I was like, all right, that's interesting, but I will give you, like, a slight. A slight thing, because it's kind of in the name of the movie. There's a guy who lives in Croatia. He's a photographer, and he's, like, really trying to get a solo gallery going. And he wakes up one morning and there's a woman in his bed who he's never met before. And she's like, hello, my name is Sore, and I'm your wife from the future, and I'm here to make your life better. And basically endeavors to get him to, like, quit smoking, quit drinking and start exercising and do all of the things that should make you healthier, etc. Etc. But she also is, like, helping him choose which photographs he should submit to galleries and all this kind of stuff. And that's about as much as I want to tell you, which I know is definitely leaving a lot on the table, but it's. It goes places that I extremely wasn't expecting. It is a genre of film that I really love, and even telling you what that is, I think would be a little bit much. But it is an extremely, extremely inventive use of this genre. And at its core, I think is a really beautiful meditation on relationships. Because I think if you're hearing. If you're hearing my very rough description of it from the beginning, you're probably like, oh, it's another movie where the woman has to put in all the work to save the man who, you know, is, like, too lazy to help himself. I promise you, the movie goes in better places than that. It's, like, significantly more interested in Soiree's agency than that. But that's sore. Away from the Future. I really loved it. Hit me out of nowhere. It definitely. I will say this. There is a little bit of, like, a young adult novel or, like, fan fiction adjacent tone to some of its writing, which I think might turn some people off. Like, if you're not a person who watches, like, I don't know, like, K dramas at all, you might be like, what is he on? Why does he like this movie so much? But I. I found it more endearing than not. That's Story Away from the Future.

[B]

It is on my watch list now.

[A]

Yeah. The one thing I'll say about the letterboxd video store is that it's very expensive to rent movies there. Yeah. That one, I think, is 20 bucks to rent.

[B]

That's what's stopped me so far.

[A]

Yeah. That's why I was like, I'm gonna pick one and I'm gonna watch it. And then I did, and it was my 10, 10th favorite movie of the year, which is pretty good.

[B]

Sounds worth $20. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I saw a lot of movies this year. I have 27 movies from this year that I rated at least. You have a lot more. I'm sure. You're. You're at the theater all the time. What's your number nine favorite album of the year, Will?

[B]

My number nine favorite album of the year is Nina Jirachi's I Love My Computer.

[A]

Damn, what a good one.

[B]

So the whole. I don't. I don't know where you, like, went with this idea of us recording our Odies thing, and I do appreciate where we landed on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the original pitch of this conversation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was that I asked you if you wanted to talk about. I love my computer.

[A]

Oh, yeah, right.

[B]

That was, I think three or four months ago or something. And then it kind of fell to the back burner and then you hit me up and we're like, when are we doing that conversation?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, yeah, sure, let's do this day. And I was like, what? I wonder what. I wonder what Brendan means by conversation. And here we are on a wild ride through media.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I Love My Computer is one of the. It's one of the best and most inventive electronic, hyper pop, like bubble gummy records I've heard this year. It explores the Internet in such a cool and satisfying way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From someone who I think is a little younger than us.

[A]

Yeah. That's the vibe I get.

[B]

But still had a lot of the experiences we did like your computer and the Internet knowing you better than most people in real life do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And see ending up as a kid watching snuff films by accident just because that was the nature of being online back in the day. And all wrapped in really beautiful production and just like bangers. It's just. How many songs is it, like 10 or 11?

[A]

Yeah, it's short.

[B]

All of them are bangers. It's a beautiful, short, sweet record. The album cover is one of the best ones that I've seen.

[A]

This so fucking cool.

[B]

It's. It's just.

[A]

Did you watch the last season of Black Mirror by any chance?

[B]

No, I didn't.

[A]

Me either. I should start off by saying this, but the other day Percy and I just. We had like literally exactly 45 minutes to kill. I was like, black mirror episodes are 45 minutes. And I know there's like three seasons of it I haven't seen, so I just picked one at random and put it on. There's this one we watch with Peter Capaldi where he. He's like trying to help lemmings become sentient. Basically, it's a whole thing, but as they become sentient, they keep demanding, like, new pieces of technology being plugged into his like, old 90s computer. And at the end of the episode, it looks exactly like the COVID of his. I love my computer, but, like, in service of lemmings. Anyway, it's a great, great album art. It. It's. And also, again, this is another one where like some of the external media outside of the album, like, there's. There's a Frost Children remix of Fuck My Computer, which is one of the lead singles that also has great album art. And then a Lot of the music videos, they're just lyric videos, but like they are produced with that same kind of like in your face overwhelming kind of techno pop vibe that is pulling from like the 90s and the 2000s and the present simultaneously and kind of hitting you with all of it at once. It's really good. It's overwhelming in the best possible way.

[B]

Also, she's really nice in interviews. She seems like a really dark.

[A]

Yeah, she does seem really nice.

[B]

Like endears me to the music even more.

[A]

Will and I bought 10 tickets to see her in Philly in February and the show just got canceled like with no explanation and they just refunded everybody immediately. And it turns out that the reason was that the venue double booked themselves that night and decided to kick Nina Jirachi out.

[B]

So dumb.

[A]

So dumb.

[B]

Wrong choice.

[A]

Yeah, and. And didn't reschedule or anything. They just gave us all our money back. Which is sad because I was really excited to roll up with a big crew for that show.

[B]

I was also supposed to see her in October and I got sick that night and I couldn't go. Yeah, two times down that I couldn't go see her.

[A]

So sad because those shows seem so fun.

[B]

Yeah, one of these days.

[A]

Yeah, we'll get to see her. My number nine album of the year is an ep. Some people care about this. I don't care about this.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Yeah, it's an EP by a punk super group in California called Null. Oh it's. And the out the EP is just called the Null ep. I will say this as a person who once again has a physical music library on a laptop that's plugged into my router. Most. Most apps and services do not play well with the name Null. Most database management tools are not stoked that there is a band called Null in that database which is making it very difficult to like recommend this album to people because I tell them to search for it and they can't find it because even Google is like, what are you talking about? But anyway, Null is a three piece punk group from California made up of three people from different like big kind of underground punk bands out there and they released an EP. It's five songs long and I think the whole thing is 10 minutes maybe or 11 minutes and is so unbelievably energetic and in your face and is pulling from things like Jet Set Radio as like a very visible, obvious like esthetic pull, but is much angrier about it. And also what I appreciate about it at least is it feels like Very LA or very, like Silicon Valley. Like, it feels like it is, like, staunchly opposed to the vibe in LA and Silicon Valley, because some of the things they're singing about are things that we don't encounter at all over here, but are, like, very obviously things that you would run into if you were, like, anti capitalist at all and lived in LA right now, which I really appreciate. I listened to this album basically on Repeat for like 2 weeks until I got absolutely fucking sick of it and I needed to take a month off and then started listening to it again. I think one of the interesting things, and I brought this up in the into the Aether game of the year episode as well. Or maybe I didn't, but I meant to, which is that this is one of the pieces of media that I found through TikTok, actually. Which is interesting because on one hand here we are saying, like, don't trust Spotify's algorithm. And on the other hand, like, I have a TikTok account. I'm using TikTok because I'm posting on TikTok all the time. And every once in a while I find, like, great art through the TikTok algorithm, which really makes me feel very conflicted as a person. And this is one of those albums where, like, I just heard about it through TikTok because they were like, hi, we're null. This was the post, literally, it just said, like, hi, we're null. We have a new EP, it's out now. And it was just like a 15 second clip of one of the songs called Burn you off of this thing. And I was like, that sounds unlike anything I've ever heard in my whole life. And I need to listen to it right now. And then I went on Bandcamp and I bought it. That's sick. That's cool. I mean, it's. On the other hand, it sucks that that's what you have to do as a band these days, but, like, it's never been easy to make it as a band. You know what I mean?

[B]

That. And they're also. It's not like they made some. They did some sort of silly TikTok dance. Like, they were just like, hey, here's our music, here's our music.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And that's like. It feels like that was the original intent of platforms like that, right? Not to juice them to get your stuff to the top, but more like, hey, here's what I'm doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Enjoy.

[A]

Can I ask you a question before we move on to our number nine movies of the Year. How do you want to handle spoilers? Should we be talking about spoilers for things that we've both seen?

[B]

I. I guess there are some films on this list that it's kind of hard to talk about without spoilers.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, sorry. I didn't want to spoil for anybody because most people haven't seen it. But like some of these movies and I'm looking at the list going to kind of want to talk about. But anyway, what's your number nine movie of the year?

[B]

My number will play by your. Yeah, well, I'll. I'll say if there's going to be a spoiler. My number nine movie of the year is Eddington.

[A]

Is it really? Yes. Wow. One of the few. The Bold, the Brave.

[B]

Eddington is a. A film that I thought I was going to hate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I decided to go see it because of. Well, there was kind of a big push in TWG's film General.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To get everyone in there to watch it and have their own little take of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Shout out. And I decided to kind of against my volition, because I'm not crazy about Ari Aster.

[A]

Yeah. I loved Midsommar and I have not loved anything else that he's made.

[B]

Yeah. I haven't seen Beau's. Afraid. So I guess I don't really know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I watched it and honestly, when I left the theater, I didn't like it. I was like, man, that was really upsetting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And some of the things that happen in that movie are infuriating and.

[A]

But did you marinate on it or did you see it again?

[B]

I marinated. I just thought about it for a few days and it eventually really stuck with me. It stuck in me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it. The ways that it is upsetting are so true to what we're experiencing now, people. Some of the critiques I heard of it are that it's, like, too soon to make a pandemic film.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even though Bo Burnham made it inside, like, immediately after vaccination shot. But that's neither here nor there. And I think even though it's set during the pandemic, it's not really trying to shove that in all of our faces. I think more what it's trying to say is the things that are continuing to happen now in the fallout of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's trying to address those in a way that I think is a little nihilistic, but also really thoughtful and critical. Critical of. I guess this is a little bit of a spoiler, but critical of mostly big tech.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, I think Joaquin is phenomenal. I think the film looks really beautiful, which was shocking.

[A]

Yeah. I do like the look of it. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it looks pretty. I also love the desert. Like, I'm a sucker for it. So anything in the desert.

[A]

You just like anything in the desert?

[B]

Pretty much. I love being there. I love watching movies set there.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

And Pedro Pascal is employed like a Swiss army knife. They use him perfectly in that movie.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

So, yeah. Eddington.

[A]

Eddington, baby.

[B]

I. There are so many mixed takes on that movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So many people hate it. A lot of people I know love it. And I. I don't know. Curious where you'd land if you ever watch it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, now I feel like I should watch it. I. All right, I'll watch it. My number nine movie of the year is Hamnet, directed by Chloe Zhao. Did you see Hamnet?

[B]

I did not.

[A]

Okay. Hamnet is. If you've seen. They've been marketing it very, very heavily. It's been, at least in New York. It's like every subway sign has Hamnet somewhere in there. Hamnet is a movie starring Jesse Buckley and Paul Mescal, and it's about Shakespeare, the lead up to writing Hamlet. It's based on a true story. It's about Shakespeare's actual life, which I don't think this is a spoiler, because this is like a history class common knowledge thing. Although when I was in the theater watching it, people did gasp when this stuff happened. So maybe it's not that obvious. So if you. If you don't want to know anything about Hamnet, I guess going in and you don't know the history of what happened, then I won't talk about it, or I guess I will talk about it now, so just skip ahead. But Shakespeare and his wife have three kids. Two of them are twins. One of them dies very early. His name is Hamnet. And Shakespeare goes on to write Hamlet as, like, an ode to his lost son. And a lot of the movie is. Most of the movie is from the perspective of his wife, who's played by Jessie Buckley, who is, first of all, turning in, I think, like, this, the best actress Oscar performance of the year. That doesn't seem to be a hot take. Everybody seems to think that. But walking out of the theater, that was like, one of the first things I said to Percy when we were leaving. I was like, that is. That's the best performance I've seen this year. Probably it's told from her perspective, and it's this kind of mounting resentment against William Shakespeare, because he spends most of his time fucked off over in London, like, working at the Globe Theater making plays. And she kind of has no semblance of how big he is getting as, like, a playwright and as a creator. But also when he's home, he's, like, barely able to communicate. Like, as a person, he's just, like. He's very reserved, and he's always been that way since they first met. The first scene is them meeting. And the whole movie is basically. And this is kind of a recurring theme in a lot of movies, I think, this year and last year as well, which I find interesting. But the whole movie is basically about, like, the inability to communicate in ways that aren't art. And it's extremely, extremely heartbreaking and beautiful. It's wonderfully shot because Chloe Zhao is, I think, perfect at knowing where to put the camera. And even just from the first trailer of this movie, I knew I was gonna love it based on purely the fact that Sam Richter did the. Sorry, Max Richter did the score, who I've been a big fan of basically my whole life, even though I just said his name was Sam. And then also just, like, getting Chloe Zhao in those forests, shooting greenery like that. Like, I knew I was gonna be obsessed with it immediately, and I was. I thought it was fantastic. The interesting thing about this movie is that people have said that if we're talking about the discourse about movies, a lot of people have pointed at it and said that it's said it's emotionally manipulative. It's a movie where, like, I bawled my eyes out for, like, 45 straight minutes in this movie. And so was everyone in the theater. Like, people were sobbing in the theater in a way that I have not experienced before. Like, I've seen sad movies in theaters before. I've never experienced one where, like, everyone was, like, losing it the way that they were in this movie. And I've seen people saying that it's emotionally manipulative. To which my response is, it happened in real life. It's the thing that happened in real life. It's just being shot with cameras and put on screen, which is, like. I don't know what to say about that even. And even if it was all made up, this is a thing that happens to people in real life.

[B]

Sometimes sad things happen.

[A]

Sometimes sad things happen. Anyway, beautiful movie. Great performances. Jesse Buckley's gonna win the Oscar, definitely, in my opinion. And even though I think I like this movie a lot more than a lot of other people, I still think Hamnet's gonna be one of those ones I go back to every once in a while.

[B]

I gotta watch that.

[A]

It's so fucking good. I loved it. I loved it. That's number nine.

[B]

Squeeze it in.

[A]

All right. Number eight album of the year.

[B]

My number eight album of the year is the Deftones album, Private Music.

[A]

Oh. I didn't listen to it.

[B]

It's. I kind of went through a Deftones journey this year.

[A]

Nice. At the.

[B]

Like. I met your friend Josh Rivera. Joshua Rivera.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your wedding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we started talking on the Internet and I saw him sing the praises of Deftones in general.

[A]

Yeah. And.

[B]

And that kind of spearheaded me getting into their backlog because they're a band that I've always wanted to like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But struggled to something about, like, Chino Moreno's vocal delivery.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or they're. The way they write metal songs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Didn't work for me at the time that I tried. But this year, suddenly it all clicked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I got really into. What is it. Koi no Yokai, I think is one of their records. And around the Fur. Like those two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And got heavy in the Deftones and listened to only them for a month. And then I was rewarded with a new record. And it's like, revered by many people as one of their best in a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is really cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The covers is like lime green with a snake. It's really heavy and nasty.

[A]

Brat Sexy by the Deftones.

[B]

It is. It's Brad. It's a bratty record.

[A]

It's a bratty record.

[B]

They're somehow at their best still like 25 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I love. It's really cathartic. I put it on when I'm on the subway and I'm like. I'm a little grumpy and I need something moody and heavy to listen to. I'll. Usually. I'll oscillate between one of the other albums of the year on my list or Private Music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's me with the Noli P. Yeah.

[B]

The Nolip is. It's so good. It's. It's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What I would describe as stupid idiot music in the best possible way.

[A]

Yeah. Complimentary.

[B]

It's like extremely. It's all catharsis and so hard hitting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've only listened to it once, though. I did not listen to it enough times to get sick of it.

[A]

Yeah. But.

[B]

Yeah. That's. That's Deftones.

[A]

Deftones, baby. Just shout out to Joshua Rivera. Very good at just posting ambiently on Blue sky about a thing that he loves and then secretly becomes another obsession of mine. That's happening right now with the Ace Combat franchise of video games. Ace Combat 7 was just on sale in the Steam sale for I think $5. And I picked it up and God damn, is it fun to play Top Gun, the video game. Surprise, surprise. My. What are we on eight?

[B]

We are on eight.

[A]

Yeah. My number eight album of the year is Fancy that by Pink Panthers. This, this is a long running tradition of mine where I will hear a single blow up so big from a pop artist that I'm like, I gotta know what the rest of the album sounds like. Because I find that frequently that's not how people listen to music. In a post Steve Jobs itunes world. It's like you just get illegal. You know, you just like, you buy the song illegal off the album Fancy that by Pink Panthers and that's the only song you own from Pink Panthers. And I was like, I gotta know what the rest of the album sounds like. Pink Panthers fucking rocks, dude. Like, that album is so good. The whole thing is good. It starts with illegal first of all, and then you're like, oh, well, we're starting with the high. We're not starting with the high note. The rest of it is as good as that song. And it's like amazing that the rest of it hasn't blown up to that degree. Her vocal delivery in general, I just think is amazing. She has such a unique voice and her production is so cool as a throwback to like specifically the early to mid 2000s era that like we all were raised on listening to like the Britney Spears era of like, I think she's pulling from like pre toxic Britney Spears.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

And like Christina and all these like pop icons from their day and it's just exceptional. The whole thing fucking whips and. And I love it.

[B]

Damn. I gotta check that out. I have. I have saved it.

[A]

She's very cool. All right, what are we on number eight, movie of the year. I love that we're alternating albums and movies now that we're doing it. It's so funny.

[B]

Maybe it was a. At first I was like, maybe this will be too chaotic. But I kind of like this.

[A]

It is fun. I'm having a good time.

[B]

I love bouncing between media. My number eight.

[A]

I wonder if we're any in common.

[B]

I. We. It'll be close.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think we might have like one or two that line up. We'll see.

[A]

I don't even mean line up, but I mean like that we both seen and Both put in our top ten.

[B]

We're about to.

[A]

Oh, are we? Okay.

[B]

My number eight movie of the year is Sentimental Value.

[A]

Oh, shit. Number eight? Yeah. Wow.

[B]

It's just. Well, they were just. I saw a lot of really good.

[A]

You saw a lot of good movies this year. That's fair.

[B]

Number eight is not a critique of sentimental value because that movie is impeccable.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll say again, as somebody who I think I have over 60 movie or over 60 video games on my like game of the year list this year. Like number 50 is still a great video game. You know what I mean? That's just what the year has been like. And that's what every year is like for art, which is nice. Sentimental value, though. I'm surprised to see this low considering your praise for it specifically. Yeah.

[B]

I definitely don't want to get too into this, but I'm a person who has a complicated relationship with their father. Yeah. And this is a movie about getting through your complicated relationship with your father via the power of your siblings and having. And loving them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it. It hit like a truck. They were. I was kind of surprised at how funny moments of this movie were.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's. This is like a teeny spoiler, but there's one scene where Stalin, Skarsgard's character Gustav is walking El Fanning through the house and shows her a stool and says, oh yeah, the stool my mother used to kill herself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then later on in Norwegian he tells his daughter about telling her about the stool and she's like the one from ikea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like little stuff like that really made this. Little moments of comedy amidst this really hard to watch. Like the suffocating movie really made it magic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I left this movie and I went on to for my newsletter, write 10 stories about my father. And that is kind of how I processed watching it.

[A]

Yeah, it was.

[B]

I've been thinking about it pretty much non stop ever since I saw it like what, a month ago or a month and a half ago now. And I've been making my way through Joaquin Triers filmography little tiny bit by little tiny bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Since then.

[A]

Worst woman in the world.

[B]

Yeah. That movie is really good too.

[A]

It's a good. Another good movie. Great performance.

[B]

Yeah. I love Stellan. I think I saw him in Manhattan one time, so. And I love Renato Rencve.

[A]

Yeah, she's really good.

[B]

She also really good in A Different Man. I loved this movie.

[A]

It's really good. I might talk about it later. My number eight Movie of the year is Materialists.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Yeah, this is. I was really surprised, actually, to like this one as much as I did. This is by Celine Song, most notably, I think did Past Lives. Those are her only two movies, actually, now that I'm looking at her directorial list here. But Materialist, I remember it came out every. This is when I was still working at Disney, and everyone I knew in the office who saw it was disappointed by it. So I put it on the back burner for a long time. I was like, I guess I won't watch it then. Like, if people really didn't like it that much. If you don't know anything about this movie, it's about Dakota Johnson and her kind of will they, won't they, with two characters, both played by Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal. And she kind of goes, like, back and forth deciding which of them she's gonna date, or at least that's the way the film would have you believe it is set up. It's not really that.

[B]

It is not.

[A]

And it is very pointedly not really that, even though the movie sets itself up that way. And in the beginning, I think this is.

[B]

It is like, crucially not that.

[A]

Yeah, I don't want to dunk on this movie too much, but one of the worst movies I saw this year, in my opinion, was highest to lowest. The new Spike Lee movie with Denzel Washington, who. Denzel Washington really tries his best to save that movie, to be clear.

[B]

But.

[A]

But it is set up in a way where the first half of the movie is like Denzel Washington as a record producer living his quote, unquote, best life. And then I won't say what happens, but, like, a bad thing happens. And then the movie turns into a very different movie, and they are both, like, shot and edited in different ways each half of that movie, which is supposed to accentuate the difference between, like, him living at his peak versus him living at his lowest. Materialists is a much subtler take on that same idea. Because the first half of the movie is shot basically as if it's like kind of mid 2000s Rom com set in New York City, or like an episode of Sex and the City, maybe even. And that's what. That's the life that Dakota Johnson thinks that she's living at first. And her job is literally like a matchmaker. Like, her job in the movie is that she finds two people in New York and sets them up and they get married all the time. And she has, like, a perfect track record of getting people married. But she can't find somebody for herself. Which all sounds like, again, an early 2000s romcom. I mean, it's basically Hitch with Will Smith and the turn of the movie. And the reason I find it so brilliant is that not on a dime, but gradually it shifts into a much more meditative, more realistic version of like, trying to find love in New York City or just in general. It's like. It's an interesting meditation on relationships, specifically, like, ones you've had for your whole life and how they can evolve. And I think that back and forth between what you think the movie is gonna be and what it's actually transforming into in real time is really interesting and also is like the most crucial marketing error they could have possibly made. But I also don't. I don't know how you would have done it differently because that's how you get butts in seats is being like, Dakota Johnson's deciding between Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal. Like, obviously people want to see that. And when they don't get that, it's understandable they would be upset. But it's a. It's also, I think, highlighting the huge gap between your own expectation of a film when you sit down to watch it and what the actual art is trying to tell you in front of you, and how willing you are to throw your own expectations out when you click with the thing that is being presented to you. Crucially, that's what the movie is about. Also, I think that that is brilliant to have this kind of like meta. Meta layer playing with genre. And I thought it was spectacular.

[B]

Yeah. I spent the past few minutes nodding really heavily because I also. I similarly loved Material Slot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't expect to same. I knew. I love past lives a whole bunch. It's one of my favorite movies ever.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[B]

And I went into Materialists thinking. I don't know necessarily how gonna top past lives. There's like, a lot of expectation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Weighing on her making her second movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I also know Dakota Johnson to be kind of a. A wooden actor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is sometimes utilized really effectively.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think it was in Materialist.

[A]

Yeah. The way Dakota Johnson acts, especially in that first half.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like, oh, yeah, this is. This is what Dakota Johnson's like in every movie. And then she's slowly starts turning in a better and better performance as it goes on. It's like, oh, fuck.

[B]

That flashback to, like, the scene where they're trying to find parking.

[A]

Yes. Oh, my God.

[B]

Like, watching that in comparison. I think yeah. Going into the movie and watching Dakota, I was like, oh, here's another. Here's another Dakota Johnson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then that scene happens and I'm like, oh, no. She's. She's like Pedro Pascal and Eddington. She's being utilized as, like, a Swiss army knife. Like, perfectly for the role was written perfectly for her. I also really. It didn't make my top 10, but I liked that movie a whole lot.

[A]

It's really good.

[B]

I think I went to see it with a few friends, and I was the only one of the friends who, like, really resonated with and loved it.

[A]

Yeah. Percy didn't like it very much.

[B]

Yeah. But it's another one of those that I understand why someone might not.

[A]

Yeah. Same.

[B]

And there are a few moments of complete ridiculousness. Like when Dakota Johnson's walking through the street with, like, the hoodie and sunglasses.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which did remind me a bit of 50 shades of gray.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's.

[A]

It's real good. It's good.

[B]

It's also really beautiful.

[A]

It's. Well, yeah, it's beautifully shot. Yeah. Number seven album of the year.

[B]

My number seven album of the year is Danny Brown's Stardust.

[A]

This album's so good. Didn't make my top 10, but it's so good.

[B]

It is. It's.

[A]

You texted me, like, three times telling me to listen to it, and I did. I was like, it's really good.

[B]

It's. It is. He took such an interesting direction with this record. I think it is his first record since. I think it's his first record since Getting Sober, which Danny Brown came out of the scene as this, like, huge party maniac constantly doing drugs and drinking. He has songs called Smoking and Drinking and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like an album called Triple X, which is referencing Ecstasy.

[A]

Yeah. Whoa. Shit.

[B]

I've been listening to him on and off for the past decade, and usually it's for fun. Like, I have a lot of fun listening to his music. And this. This record is also really fun, but it's also pretty profound. It's. It's a lot of looking back on his career and reflecting on the kind of person he used to be and, like, what he's done to, like, move himself and his art out of that space.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's also looking forward in that all the people he's working with on the record are, like, hyper pop and noise and experimental and industrial producers. Yeah.

[A]

The way he's just kind of like, attached himself to that crew in general. Yeah. Is like. It's just Exhilarating to watch him, like, live, specifically alongside some of those artists.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I saw him a few weeks ago, and I. Femtanil and Underscores both opened and he brought them both on stage and it was, like, clear how much they all, yeah, love each other. And this tour.

[A]

So good.

[B]

He had. He was having so much fun. It's. It was just a fantastic time. And I love the new record. I love how there are moments of, like, meditative, like, peace and really, like, thoughtful bars. And then there are moments of fun and idiocy. Yeah. There's one line where he says, I'm going nuts like Conker. And I've been thinking about that a lot.

[A]

Yeah, we love to have a bed for a day, don't we, folks?

[B]

But, yeah. Stardust. Really good. What's your.

[A]

What are we on number 7?

[B]

7.

[A]

Number 7 album of the year for me. We haven't talked about this one at all. I'm curious if you even listen to it. Did you listen to Bleeds by Wednesday? I did. I love this album. You ever hear a guitar tone so good, you just. You just listen to it on repeat over and over again, and you're like, oh, yeah, there's lyrics and, like, other. Other instruments here all the time. Yeah, I'm very much that way. Sometimes a guitar tone is enough to get me to listen to an album all the way through. And that's what happened with. With Bleeds. I had never heard of Wednesday. I didn't know who they were before listening to this one. When some of the Album of the year list started coming out, Wednesday was kind of towards the top of a lot of people's lists. And I was like, oh, okay, cool, I'll check it out. And Townies, which is, I think the second track on this thing, just, like, knocked me on my ass. It is, like, one of those perfect songs that I think if I had heard it in high school, it would have been my personality kind of levels of great. It's specific. I mean, like, it's about growing up in the Midwest, specifically, which is not. I don't relate to that, because I didn't. But there is something deeper, on a deeper level of, like, going back and visiting home. That was really interesting about that track to me. And then when they start getting into, like, the chorus and the bridge and stuff, they kick it into, like, high shoegaze gear and it becomes my dream genre, which is, like, indie rock that is clearly inspired by and pulling as much from, like, the shoegaze greats as possible. I like the blurring of that line, you know, because as much as I love My Bloody Valentine and. And I don't know, list anybody else from that. From that crew, there is something about taking that genre and adding more, like, song structure to it that I find just scratches the right parts of my brain. And that's what Wednesday is doing on this album basically the whole time. I remember we've talked about seven by Beach House before. That's. That's always my main gripe with that album in particular, is like, it gets so close to being that and then never really commits. Like, they. They never kick it up to high gear because it's Beach House and their whole thing is like kind of slow, plodding melody. But they. They want. It's almost like they aspire to be that and they never break through the glass. And Wednesday just does it, like, immediately, and it never gets old or tiring. It's a great album. Bleeds by Wednesday.

[B]

It is great. My bandmate and friend, and also your friend Aaron recommended it to me, and I put off listening to it for a really long time because I hated the album cover.

[A]

The album art is very interesting. It's just like a little, like, Gremlin Girl.

[B]

And I think it's Jokerman font above that.

[A]

Is it.

[B]

It's like. It's similar to Joker, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I struggle listening to albums that I don't like the album cover of, but I got past it and I did, and I was like, damn you. The strip is really, really good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's aspirational. Like what you said about guitar tone before.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I. I aspire to that kind of sound for when I'm playing guitar.

[A]

Yeah. There are a couple bands here and there that I listen to purely for their guitar tone. I. I don't want to be dismissive of Wednesday because that's not how I feel about this album in particular. It just is. Another great thing about it, I won't. I won't name any bands because now I realize it's an insult, but. What's your number seven movie of the year?

[B]

My number seven movie of the year is Superman.

[A]

Oh, shit. Yeah. This did not make my top 10.

[B]

But understandable. You're a big. You have a lot of feelings on Superman, so I get why it'd be tough.

[A]

Yeah. You know this. Yeah. This is a movie that on Letterbox has four stars and did not make the list. But yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about this one.

[B]

I have. I'm, like, mixed to positive on James Gunn Overall, sometimes he makes me grow, but most of the time, I enjoy

[A]

how I feel about him, too. I.

[B]

To put it, like, bluntly and simply, this movie was so optimistic and so considerate and so caring for, like. For lives and people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And lives beyond just people. Like, lives of animals, lives of things and creatures.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I really needed to see that this year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It has been a shit year on a macro level.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not to be reductive and say, with everything going on in the world, but there really is a lot of horrible shit happening every single day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Due to the machinations of a handful of billionaires. And seeing this movie pretty directly combat that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Lex Luthor is a perfect villain for right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just kind of spit in the face of that and say, no, we're gonna remain optimistic and put one foot in front of the other and be human beings to each other, despite people trying to make us not. It was necessary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why this movie really hit heavy for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Superman.

[A]

Superman. Yeah. I think we talked about this a bunch, but I feel like the thing for me with this movie is, like, they get so much of it. Right. I think. I think the characterizations of Clark and Lois and Lex are, like, basically perfect. And even. Even the, like, kind of tertiary cast really, really worked for me. And it's the moments. It's the moments that feel like a James Gunn movie that are the weakest parts of the movie for me, which is. That was always my fear for this thing in particular, like, from the minute it was announced that he was writing and directing it, I was like, oh, man, I'm not excited for, like, the Motley Crew, Guardians of Galaxy Adjacent Team to show up in this thing. And then they did.

[B]

They did. In exactly that way.

[A]

Exactly that way. And the. The back and forth between it is, like, some of those sequences are really great. Like, I do. I do genuinely enjoy a lot of the stuff that happens in that movie with that crew. Like the Mr. Terrific, like, beach fight scene. So good in a. In a vacuum is amazing. And then in service of the story they're trying to tell, I'm like, it's too much. It doesn't make sense. It does. It shouldn't. Like, it doesn't need to be here.

[B]

It is maybe one of the. The Gunniest parts of the movie.

[A]

It definitely is. Yeah. Yeah. And yet, at the end of the day, I think it's, like, one of the better Superman movies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is great. And I'm glad we got a good one.

[B]

It's nice to get a good superhero movie every once in a while. Yeah, I think we got. So not on my list, but another one that I loved this year, despite everything, is Thunderbolts really worked for me.

[A]

Thunderbolts is good.

[B]

The rest of the superhero media that came out this year didn't really. But Thunderbolts and Superman both kind of.

[A]

Yeah. Also didn't make my list or my top 10. But I. I'm a big Superman fan and I'm a big Fantastic Four fan, and I. And both those movies came out basically in the same week. And I really liked them both. I like them both a lot, actually. Fantastic Four worked for me, I think a lot better than it worked for a lot of other people based on my reading. But I'm excited for more. I'm excited for more of that, even if it doesn't all culminate in whatever is next with fucking Doomsday, Doomsday and then Secret Wars. I'm glad we got that Fantastic Four movie because it was fun and we

[B]

love to have fun.

[A]

We love to have fun, don't we, folks? Number seven movie of the year for me is one that we saw together. It's 28 years later. This is. This is the return to the 28 whatever's film franchise with Danny Boyle. There's. There's 28 days later, which he directed, Rowan directed, or I don't know if he wrote that one. And then 28 weeks later, which he did not directly, but he's back with 28 years later, this movie. I think I wrote this in my letterboxd review. It feels written and directed by students in a big way. And it feels edited. Like it was edited in imovie in a big way. And that is maybe the most complimentary thing you can say about a director who has made as many great movies as Danny Boyle and a writer like Alex Garland, who I know people are mixed on, but I tend to like his stuff more often than I don't. For them to make something that feels this, like, fresh and inventive, especially in a genre this fucking old, in, like, what is becoming a film franchise, is really surprising. Like there's some real, like, art house shit in this movie, you know, cuts to. Cuts to archival war footage, like just basically non sequitur shots of zombies in the woods. Just kind of like living and eating stuff during, like, slow dialogue moments just for fun. I mean, they're not for fun. There. There's a reason behind all of it, but it just feels like a real art house. Twinge on this genre. And honestly, it doesn't feel fit as well with the first two movies, in my opinion. But it does make it something like, unique and good. And I had an amazing, amazing time watching it. I really loved this thing. I think the performance is great. Aaron Taylor Johnson, in particular, I was really surprised by as just, like, a real dad. I think he was like. He's really good in that role. Yeah, I. I just. I think this movie is great. Wraith finds also just turning in, like, a performance that's way too good for, again, this genre. I think that's the thing. Like, I. I don't want to On, Like, I don't want to shit on zombie media too much, but, like, I. I really got to a point around, like, the 2013-2015 era where I was, like, totally done with it. Like, I just. I could not ingest one iota of zombie media, and you couldn't pay me to do so. So to get me in the theater to watch this movie in general and then walk out loving it as much as I did, I think says a lot. Yeah.

[B]

And we're seeing the sequel in, like, a week.

[A]

Yeah, in like, a week. Which I'm really excited about. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I hope, anyway.

[A]

I think also written by Alice Garland, but not directed by Danny Boyle.

[B]

Directed by Nia Dacosta.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Nia Dacosta, who will, I think, be there that night.

[A]

So exciting. Yeah, I'm stoked to see that.

[B]

I'll have more to say about that movie later.

[A]

All right, let's do our number sixes, and then we'll take a break. Okay.

[B]

My number six album of the year is Sudan Archives of the bpm.

[A]

Ooh, I've heard of that one. It's really good.

[B]

It is. So the day. I think the day that record came out was, like, a few months before the Tame Impala record came out.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Deadbeat. And I listened to that record, and I hated it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, this is really disappointing and bad.

[A]

Yeah. What happened with that album?

[B]

I wish I knew.

[A]

Yeah. People generally didn't like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've never been a Tame Impala fan, so I didn't even check it out because I knew I probably wouldn't like it. And then when people who like Tame Impala also said they didn't like it, I was like, oh, okay. I really shouldn't listen.

[B]

That record was rough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I needed something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That day.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I was, like, kind of digging around for something in the vein of, like, electronic pop. Housey. But, you know. Good. And I found out about the BPM by an artist at that point I'd never listened to called Sudan Archives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who apparently already has a record out that's really good.

[A]

Another one?

[B]

Yeah, like before the bpm, Shreli.

[A]

Oh, okay. I thought you meant there's another one. Since this one.

[B]

I wish to put it as, like, bluntly and simply as possible. The thing that I say to people to get them to listen to this record is it is the most bisexual album since Blount.

[A]

Yeah, baby.

[B]

It's so sexy. It's so dancy. It makes me feel like a supermodel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I'm walking around, I remember texting you like I was walking around the Lower east side fashion district.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. Or at least the district where everyone dresses really nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think you're in Soho maybe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Manhattan, huh?

[A]

Yeah, Manhattan.

[B]

And I felt powerful. Like, I felt like I was dressed to match the energy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even though I wasn't. I think I was wearing like a hoodie and loose fitting jeans, but not in a cool way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just. It's so. Such a beautiful record. It's so, to me, immaculately. Immaculately produced. I love her voice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love her bars. I love the way she like, rap talks and rap sings and talk things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just. It's like an adventure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And really good cover.

[A]

Really good cover.

[B]

Like the, like the album cover a lot.

[A]

I like your focus on album art. I didn't know this about you. That was very funny. I.

[B]

It's. It's important to me because it's having been a person who's been involved in the process of making album art. It does.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Do need to, like. It needs to inform the experience of making the record and what you're trying to put forth.

[A]

It's tough.

[B]

The vibe is gonna be.

[A]

It's tough. It's. It's tough to figure that out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My number six. Yeah. My number six album of the year is Eliza Dream os, which, if you. If you read the blog, you probably have seen me talking about this more than once. But Dream OS is basically like, what if Windows Vista was an album? That's kind of how it was pitched when I first heard about it. And then I started listening to it and it very quickly became the. The album I listened to the most this year. Like my Apple Music Wrapped or whatever was like, this is the only album you listen to basically this whole year. I love it. I mean, I spent a lot of My time, specifically when I was in Tokyo listening to this on repeat. The same way you were with Sudan Archives, walking around in Soho. I was walking around Tokyo listening to Dreamos on my photo walks and stuff. And what an album to be listening to while walking around Tokyo. I. I love it. I think it's great. It's one of those ones you could just put on and listen to forever on repeat, over and over and over again until it's. Until you get sick of it. But honestly, I never did. And I still listen to it almost every day. At least, like, one or two tracks. I love it. That's Eliza's dream Os.

[B]

Eliza is not spelled how you think it's gonna be spelled.

[A]

A, L, Y, Z, E, A. I

[B]

have also saved that. This album cover is wonderful.

[A]

It's so good. It's so good. Yeah. It's real. I just got the. The term for it.

[B]

Y2K.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of Y2K. Jason number six movie. What's yours?

[B]

My number six movie of the year is Twinless.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I didn't watch this one. Oh, yeah. I really want to. Yeah.

[B]

Oh. Friends.

[A]

And it's on. It's on my. It's on my watch list. I'm excited about it.

[B]

It's. I'm struggling to find the words for what kind of movie this is because it's so simultaneously hilarious and tragic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the way that this movie made me laugh out loud and cry within 15 minutes or so of each other. And the way all these characters are so real and experiencing grief and in such an ugly, chaotic, harmful way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is authentic. Is. It's kind of unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this is only, I think, James Sweeney's second movie, and he stars in it, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's kind of, like, hard to believe that they pulled it off. It's also one of the, like, sexiest films I've seen. So funny. They dress as Sims on Halloween. It's.

[A]

But yeah.

[B]

And the title card drops, like, 40 minutes into the movie.

[A]

That's. That's how you know it's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's final fantasy stuff right there. Yeah.

[B]

And one character plays two twins and does a perfect job playing both. There's a monologue in the movie that is one of the most heartbreaking things I've seen all year. And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Twin list. I don't want to say much more about it. I think you should go.

[A]

You're one of two people I know who saw that movie and recommended it to me this year. And both of you have Great taste in movies. The other one is Chris Plant. Hello, Chris Plant. But I'm excited to watch that one. Twinless, My number six. I almost said album movie of the year. Really surprised, actually. This is this high up here. Wake Up Deadman, the new Knives out movie.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Directed by Rian Johnson. Written by Rian Johnson. Okay, I'll start off by saying this. This is, in my opinion, the best Knives out movie. Definitely. I. I like the first one a lot. I think it's. I think it's a good movie. The second one, I dislike. And every time I see it, which has been multiple times since I first saw it in theaters, I like it less than I did the time before. And I remember leaving the theater the first time I saw it, thinking to myself, this is a movie that has already aged poorly in the time between making it and it coming out and will only continue to age poorly. And it's true. It's about Elon Musk when he bought Twitter. And it's just a movie about dunking on Elon Musk for buying Twitter is kind of what it felt like. It's like, 2 of its time. The interesting thing is that I've seen interviews with Rian Johnson where he's talked about how, like, that's actually the point for. For him when he's making these movies. He's like, I'm not interested in making something timeless. I want it to be about what I'm interested in in the moment that I'm making it. Even if that's like, two of the moment for viewers, like, whatever. It's my movie. I'm the one making it. Which is like, I can respect that to a certain degree. Wake up, dead man. Though, while it does have bits and pieces of it that I think are a little bit too on the nose about stuff that's happening right now is on the whole part of this collection of media that I've been consuming recently, silksong included, which is asking larger questions about, like, faith's role in modern life, and not in, like, a purely religious perspective, but in, like, kind of divorced from. I mean, it can be, but in a kind of divorced from that sense, like, what does the word faith mean to us as people now? You know, Benoit Blanc in this movie, very pointedly, when he shows up, which is like 35 to 40 minutes into the movie, which is, honestly, I think, brilliant, very pointedly is like, I am not a man of faith. I do not go to church. I don't believe in any of this. And he seems to actively hate it even he lambasts the church in his

[B]

first scene in the movie.

[A]

Yeah, he's. He's like, yeah, he's pretty against it. Josh o' Connor also turning in an amazing performance. One of. I mean the dude is good at his job, but the extremely open hearted response he has to Daniel Craig being like, fuck this place. You know, like it feels built as a way to manipulate me and it works. And that's what makes me so angry about it. Like, I think that's one of the more interesting things I think in that movie is when he's like, how does being in this chapel make you feel? And he's like, it's having all the intended effects. Like I feel the mystery, I feel, you know, I feel the divinity. I feel all this stuff. And like that pisses me off. Josh oconnors response to that I think is really beautiful. And the movie on the whole is largely about, you know, the ways that faith and religion have been perverted and corrupted by kind of like not just the manosphere. But that's kind of what's being explored here. But you know, by. By many, many forces. And Josh o' Connor being like, at least in this case, playing a character who has basically hit rock bottom and used religion as his way to kind of like find himself again and knowing that not everybody's going to have the same path to get there, I think was really beautiful. I'm also not a person who is like very religious, but I sure did watch a lot of media about religion this year in the lead up to writing my Silksong review. And I just found that this movie, even though it came out after that or I just, I just found it to be basically exactly on the nose about everything that I had been thinking and writing about for the past like two months leading up to it coming out, which really worked for me, I think. Great performances. It's shot beautifully. Yeah, I liked it a lot. I think it's really good.

[B]

It is really good. I also watched it. I also had a lot of really strong feelings about Josh o' Connor's performance as a priest. Basically being surrounded by terrible people and having a crisis of faith. Yeah. I was raised Catholic, so a lot of this movie hit pretty hard for me, I would say. Nowadays I'm an atheist, but also kind of a Jesus and Bible appreciator. There are elements and aspects of Jesus's teachings and faith in the Bible that I. That still resonate and work for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I try to carry a little bit, even though I Don't believe anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this movie did a really good job exploring and explaining why that stuff still matters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why people like what. There's a whole scene in the movie that a lot of people have been talking about where Josh's character, Judd, is on the phone with a person who works in, like, contracting.

[A]

So good.

[B]

And that. That scene alone made the whole movie worth it for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just. It was so human.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And that was, like, one. I. I haven't seen him in much aside from Challengers, so. That was one of the best.

[A]

O'. Connor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like, I haven't seen lots of mirror or anything.

[A]

You got to watch it. I do, but it's so good that. And I'd be really curious how you feel about the Mastermind. I would be, too, which came out.

[B]

I heard some mixed things about it,

[A]

but I didn't like it. He's good in it, though.

[B]

He's good in a lot of stuff. Yeah. That seems to be his Dead Man. Good movie.

[A]

He's the star of that new Spielberg sci fi movie coming out next year. Hell, yeah. Disclosure Day.

[B]

The trailer for that looks so good.

[A]

Yeah. I'm excited about it. That's Wake Up, Dead Man. That's my number six. I think with that, we take a break and we'll come back and we'll do our top fives.

[B]

Sick.

[A]

Goodbye, everybody.

[B]

See you soon.

[A]

We're back. We're back in the show. We're doing number five album of the year. Thanks for being with me, Will.

[B]

Anytime.

[A]

You said you're gonna yap about this

[B]

one a little bit because it kind of goes beyond the album itself.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Also, we have mic stands now.

[A]

We have. Yeah, we got mic stands. We were both holding our microphones. I don't know about you, but my arm. Sorry. Boy, are my arms tired.

[B]

It was. I think I was doing it kind of a lazy way. Had some, like, elbow action going.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But this is. This is kind of nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I like not holding a mic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also like holding a mic.

[A]

So hands free. Now. I can drink water also while. While I'm talking.

[B]

Stay hydrated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My number five album of the year is oneotrix Point Nevers Tranquilizer.

[A]

Yeah. You like this one?

[B]

I really like this one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have been, like, a loose appreciator of OPN for, I don't know, a decade now or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Um, I didn't hear his big album that made him famous Replica until last year. I just listened to Garden of Delete and never explored beyond that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Replica is incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He released another album last year called Again, which I, like, enjoyed vaguely, but it didn't, like, Hook Me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But this year with Tranquilizer, he kind of went back to his roots, I think, a little bit. It's a very. It's. This one's way more sample heavy and more like sound, collage and texture based, but it's. It's also magical. It feels. Whenever I listen to it, I feel like I'm in a new world. It adds color and life to any walk that I'm on.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

When I hit the. When I'm in Manhattan, I'm feeling overwhelmed. It, like, matches that energy. Or when I'm walking through the park and I'm feeling at peace next to the lake.

[A]

It matches that energy too. Yeah.

[B]

And I think what's really sick about OPN is that he's also scoring films now. Since good time in 2017, he's been scoring the Safdie brothers movies and I think a couple other things here and there. And he also did the score for Marty supreme this year, a movie that did not make my top 10. Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. I was wondering if I was gonna

[B]

hear about it, but it's twice already, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's like number 11 or 12 or something. It's really good. But the score for that film is my favorite score. This.

[A]

The thing Percy said to me the other day was, why do I feel like everyone we know has seen Marty supreme already? The movie isn't out.

[B]

It's because the Alamo had a bunch of, like, special feature screenings or whatever. We got ping pong balls.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

They gave us orange ping pong balls and a big poster with Timmy Chalamet with a ping pong paddle. And the world is in front of him.

[A]

Are they the orange ping pong balls that say Marty supreme on them?

[B]

And I think they say Dream Big under them too. Yeah.

[A]

That's funny. It's, uh. I'm excited to see it, even though it's. I've also heard kind of mixed things about it.

[B]

I. I feel like I'm one of a few people that. It wasn't a perfect movie for me, but I know a good amount of people for who really was.

[A]

They felt that way better.

[B]

It was a perfect movie.

[A]

I have actually heard more stuff about it. I remember you and I were on a walk a couple months ago is before the Smashing Machine came out, which was the other Safdie movie that happened this year. The Safdie brothers, who made a bunch of movies together. I don't want to say broke up, but they decided to start making movies separately. And I remember having this take that was like, I never want an artist's work to be bad. To be clear, I'm always going into experiencing art with an open mind, or at least as close to that as I can get, wanting the best for them. But, boy, would I love it if the Smashing Machine and Marty supreme were both bad. So the Saffy brothers could realize that they're more powerful together than they are apart. I would love that. And the Smashing Machine came out. People did not like was all right. And then hate it. But yeah. And then I was like, maybe if Marty supreme is also bad, they'll get back together, start making movies again. Yeah.

[B]

Supreme is very, very good.

[A]

Yeah, I did. I mean, even when I saw the first trailer, I was like, this is obviously gonna be good. Yeah. Yeah. How do. Yeah. Anyway, Wonder Choice boy. Never.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's the thing is, like, I a little bit wanted to use this moment to also talk about Marty Supreme a tiny bit, because it didn't make my list. But it is. Was really important for me because that was my favorite film score.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, this past year.

[A]

Yeah. Nice.

[B]

I like whenever you go see a movie in 70 millimeter, I learned that apparently the score also comes from that 70 millimeter reel and is, like, bigger and deeper and more layered because of it.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah. Uh, maybe I learned that from a wrong source and it's not true. But, you know, the Internet, sometimes they lie to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I felt the score in my entire body. There are synth bass hits that I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to replicate on my own synth because of that movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was so inspirational, that score. It's like perfect 80s scumbag synth pop. And the fact that Daniel Lopatin was able to both make that score and this record.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Within the same year and explore the entirety of, like, the breadth of his capability of sound design and synth and also sampling and sound collage. And get both of those projects out was really.

[A]

It's unreal.

[B]

Like, it made me want to get. Because I released an album this year, and I. Since then, it was like, in August, I have not really felt any sort of pull to make music by myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or like, make synth stuff or sample stuff. Because it feels like I'm spent in a way. But listening to Tranquilizer and the score from Marty Supreme, I feel, like, reinvigorated to get back into those things again.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

Because if he can make two of them, if he can make the best score of the year and one of the best electronic music records of the year, why can't I do my little twiddling in Ableton? Yeah, you know, totally. So, yeah. Tranquilizer is magical and inspirational and beautiful.

[A]

That's the best kind of art.

[B]

The art that gets you back into art.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

Especially making it. What's your.

[A]

My number five album of the year is Belong by jsam. I love jsam so much. I just think, like, I truly. I think she's, like, one of the best songwriters alive right now. She's one of the best producers alive, given that everybody on the planet wants to work with her all the time. And she's very selective. She just spent the past two years touring with Boy Genius. She produced their album and then also was their guitarist or, like, one of their guitarists on their tour, and then just kind of popped back with an album. First one, I think, since 2015 or 2016. Anakko, I think, was her last album, which was a long time ago at this point, and released this new one called Belong, which, I mean, it's basically like an ode to growing up as a fan of, like, emo music, you know, like Jimmy Eat World and Paramore and all this stuff. And she's, like. She's pulling very heavily from that stuff and blending it with her own very unique style of, like, kind of bedroom production. Her first album turned into is, like, pretty well known as being one that she produced entirely by herself in her bedroom. And it does not sound like that at all. It's very, like, loud and. And rich and deep. For somebody who's producing stuff entirely by herself and then went on to do Everybody Works, which I think is a perfect album, basically, top to bottom point being Belong, I was expecting to sound, I would say, a little bit more polished, and I'm glad that it wasn't. You know, it's also the first album that she's released where she has guest vocals from Jimmy of Jimmy Eat World and Hayley Williams from Paramore on.

[B]

I didn't know that was the Jimmy from Jimmy Eat World.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

His name's Jimmy.

[A]

He had. Yeah. James or Jimmy or something.

[B]

Like the lead singer of Jimmy Eat World's name is Jimmy.

[A]

Yeah, he's eating the World.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah. Just like. I guess it makes more from the Foo Fighters. Anyway, it's a great. It's a great album. It's. It's a really great album. It. She has given some interviews, talking about how kind of out of out of the loop she feels like in the indie rock scene that's mostly like, white dudes. And writing this album and calling it Belong feels very much like a statement to me, being like, you need to fucking take me seriously. And it's. It's an angrier album than some of the other ones as well, for I think that reason. And it really hits. It work. It works very well for me. I love it. And it's funny, I have. You know this about me, but I have playlists where I just have, like, kind of a best of all my favorite artists, where I just, like, take all the songs that I love from them and put them in there. My. My Best of jsam playlist is actually just all of her albums. I haven't removed a single song from it. It's just all of her albums in one playlist.

[B]

Wow. No, no. Culling from Brendan.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Skip famously, you love to make abridged playlists and album playlists.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. There are two artists that have that. It's jsam and Carly Rae Jepsen.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really good record. I did listen to it at your recommendation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I did like it.

[A]

Record Mendation. Yeah. Jason Belong. Really good.

[B]

Really good.

[A]

All right. Number five movie of the year.

[B]

My number five movie of the year is 28 Years Later.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

We did, in fact, go see this together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember the day I invited you to come see it with me. You were like. If I remember correctly, you were like, thank God I was gonna work for the rest of the night. And this pulled me away from it.

[A]

It's how I usually am when people text me and ask me to do things.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Please get me out of here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do I. What you described about it feeling like it was edited for a school project. Being complimentary is so real. All. Every time there's a zombie headshot, they pan around it. Like they do two or three.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Shots of that and, like, repeat it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And every time that was done, it was so, like, jarring.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And cool. I think something that 28 years later did that even the films before it in the series didn't really care to do was portray the fact that these zombies are still people, which I think some zombie media, like Last of Us has stuff like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Some zombie media does play with the fact that, yeah, this was a person once, but this movie really questions the inhuman traditions of that the main character is founded in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's the crux of the action is that this. The shitty dad that you mentioned earlier, Aaron Taylor Johnson, takes this kid out, his name's Spike, for his first hunt to go find zombies and kill them for, I guess, reasons that I think the whole purpose is just to go out and kill zombies. Just to prove yourself as a man.

[A]

Yeah. And I also think there's a little bit of, like, a culling aspect because you don't want them too close to the island that they live on. Yeah.

[B]

And Spike is very clearly uncomfortable with that because he's seeing, despite the fact that they're now, you know, mindless and overtaken with the rage virus, they're still people and he still has to kill them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the movie does a wonderful job playing with that idea through Spike and relatively innocent character having to go out and kill zombies. And Spike's mother, who spoilers, I will say, but has a terminal illness and everyone in the town has just kind of abandoned her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To languish and eventually die. But Spike is like, I want to help her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Rey finds character. The doctor. Like it when they. You meet him at first, he's a crazy guy with a temple of bones.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The bone Temple in 2026.

[A]

The titular bone temple. Yeah.

[B]

And everyone's like, we have to stay away from him. What. What the fuck is he doing? And you realize that the reason he's doing what he's doing is to honor his role as a doctor is like, preserve and cherish life. And he's taken that to, like, you know, kind of an extreme. But it also. But the world.

[A]

So what? You know, why not be extreme?

[B]

Why not? And Spike finally finds someone who is. Who cares as much as he does and is willing to give Spike's mother the, like, honor she deserves, like, the. The respect she deserves and what she's going through.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that all hit me like a truck. Something else that hit me like a truck is what you said after we left the movie, which you didn't mention, but that you.

[A]

I thought this would come up again. Yeah.

[B]

You said it was like a Miyazaki film.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that I already liked it when we left the theater. But that really reformed how I saw the movie in its entirety because the wind swept the windswept northern, like, UK isles landscapes and, like, the really solemn journey that the kid's going on with his mom, like, leading around this infirm person and meeting a kooky old man. It's all very Miyazaki, both in structure and in tone and the way it's filmed in the latter half, it's just. Yeah, it's so good.

[A]

It's one of those things that's really hard to articulate. You know what. What makes something a Miyazaki film when it's not also animated? Yeah, you know, but it is kind of a. You know, but when you see it. And I just. I remember the thing that set it off in my head initially was there's one shot in particular where there they're walking through a field of flowers and there's this, like, beautiful blue sky up above. And I was like, oh, that looks like a Miyazaki shot. And then the more. The more of the movie that happened, I was like, oh, this whole thing feels like a Miyazaki movie in a way that's like, kind of hard to articulate. And it is tone and it's vibe at the end of the day. But that really clicked with me. And I think also just like one of the more interesting twists on the genre in general is this feeling of like, it is. I mean, it's the name of the movie, but it's 28 years later. Like, how has society moved on from this? And one of the more interesting things as you're talking about is like, the zombies have evolved also. Like, the zombies have become just like creatures that are out in the wilderness now at this point. They've been living long enough that like, some of them have evolved to not need to eat people anymore. Even, you know, they eat like worms and grubs and insects and stuff, which is. That's an interesting take by itself. It's just asking those kinds of questions. But then also, what does a civilization of survivors look like 28 years later? Kind of fashy is how I put it. You know, there's like a real fascist element to the society on the island. You know, it's cult adjacent in a way that the movie is like taking a very, I think, hard stance on being like, you know, you've basically created this, like, little island of people who. Who nations don't really exist anymore at this point. Or they do, but not in England, which I don't want to say too much about, because there's some interesting stuff going on there in terms of the global landscape. But these people are nationalists, and there's only 100 of them that live on the island total, but they're nationalists for their island. And the way Spike is like, being corrupted and inducted into that nationalism that makes him think he needs to like, step up, quote unquote, for like, Hyper masculine reasons and start hunting zombies is really fascinating. And then as you said, like his immediate revulsion when he has to actually do it for the first time, you know, you can see or you can understand why there would be so many other people who would exist in that society and not have that feeling about it. Or if they did, they would try to tamp it down as much as humanly possible. But no, he's like, I'm going to saved my mom. It was really beautiful. Yeah, it was fucking good movie.

[B]

I got like really emotional talking about it just now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm very curious how the Bone Temple is going to play out.

[A]

I'm excited about it.

[B]

Really interesting Clockwork Orangey cult stuff happening. And also Killian is going to come back.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm interested in how they're going to bring him back.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[A]

Anything but a zombie. Yeah.

[B]

So we'll see.

[A]

We'll see.

[B]

Yeah, the end of that movie is really wonky.

[A]

Yeah, we'll see how it plays out.

[B]

What's yours?

[A]

My number five movie of the year is Weapons.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

By Zach Krieger. I mean, good year for horror in general. I always say that I will go see the one horror movie that everybody tells me to see. I don't dislike horror, but I don't seek it out the way I think a lot of other people do. So when one of them, like bubbles up enough, I'm like, okay, cool, I'll go see it. And Weapons, I think, is fascinating because of how different people's takes on it have been. Like, I've really loved. Of all the movies that came out this year, this is the one I've loved talking to people about the most because there are a lot of people who walked out of it and they were like, it's not about anything. It's, you know, just like a kind of fun horror movie that doesn't need to be a commentary on society, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, there's a shot of an AK47 hovering above a child's home.

[B]

Who cares? What does that mean?

[A]

The movie is called Weapons. All of the kids suddenly go missing and the town needs to reckon with the fact that all of the kids have gone missing one day for some horrifying reason. I think Weapons is very much about stuff. I won't say too much about it because I think you should watch the movie, but outside of just like what it's about, it's just a really fucking well constructed horror movie. Like I saw it in a theater. My favorite kind of movie going experience is seeing a horror movie in a packed theater where like nobody knows what's. What's up. Because I saw it, I think the week it came out and people were like screaming at the screen, which rocks. Like anytime that happens, that rocks. It's told from a bunch of different perspectives from bunch of different people who are in the town. I think all the performances are great. In particular, I love. Oh my God, I just forgot their name. Julia Garner. Julia Garner is fantastic in it as like the teacher that everyone in town decides to blame for the fact that all the kids have gone missing. If you haven't seen the trailer, it's worth mentioning like one night at, what is it, 2:17am all of the kids in her class just get up and run out the front door doing like the Naruto run into the woods.

[B]

A lot of debate about whether it's a Naruto run or not.

[A]

Is there really? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's supposed to be a Naruto run, but that sure is what it looks like. You know, regardless of the intention, it definitely looks like it. But yeah, they all run into the night and. And they. They don't come back is how the movie opens. And I think at its core, the thing that really strikes me about it is just like the failing of the adults throughout every single possible instance where they are put in power. Anytime an adult needs to make a decision in this movie, it is the wrong one. Or it's one that sticks by the status quo, which maybe also gets into a bit of what the theme of the movie is about. But at the end of the day, like, I just find that the exploration of the failing of adults in society when it comes to raising their kids to have a better life than they have is something that feels like very apt right now. I think it's great.

[B]

I do too. Something that really sticks out to me about the way the movie treats and interacts with children is, if I remember correctly, Julia Garner's character, her teacher, got fired from her previous job for hugging a child. Yeah, I think that was what happened. And I think that kind of says a lot about the way we treat children. Like, no, they shouldn't be shown any affection by anyone other than parents or something.

[A]

Yeah. Am I remembering correctly that there was a kid who was frequently not being picked up by their parents?

[B]

Yeah. And she drove him home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like they, rather than the parents facing any sort of repercussion, she got in trouble for it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. The movie does have a lot of things to say, I think. I think talking about it is worthwhile. I also think that leaving it up to people's interpretations is worthwhile. But I do think that I'm someone who just, like, really thought it rocked and had a really fun ride. I don't normally prefer to see horror movies because unless they're so. I watched a lot of horror as a kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, a lot of horror I should not have been watching as a very young child. And because of that, I don't really react to horror. So if the whole movie is built around jump scares and being spooky.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And unsettling, it doesn't really do much for me unless there's substance beyond that.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

And weapons had that, like. Weapons had that, like, heft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was very emotionally intense. The way that Josh Brolin's character experiences his grief is so like. Like we were talking about earlier with Twinless, like, toxic and horrible, but also understandable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, every night he sleeps in his son's bed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just seeing that alone, like, they don't say, every night I'm sleeping in my son's bed. Like, they just show him waking up in his son's bed every. Every morning. And it's. It's horrible. Yeah.

[A]

It's crippling.

[B]

Devastating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's also.

[A]

It's worth mentioning, a lot funnier than you would think it is. I mean, unless you know that Zach Kreger was, like, the whitest kids, you know, guy, you know. But even still, given the subject matter, like, it doesn't seem like a movie that would be, like, laugh out loud funny for most of its runtime, given everything that it's about, you know, especially, like, a movie that can contain what you just said about Josh Brolin's character is also the kind of thing that's going to make you, like, cry. Laughing is wild. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That there's a whole scene with a character who's, like, kind of a comic relief. The movie is structured. Like, people have been calling it Horror Magnolia, which is accurate, because that is kind of how it's structured. Yeah.

[A]

It's been used.

[B]

And there's one character who's, like, looking for money for a fix that they follow around for a lot of the movie. And pretty much every scene with him is hilarious.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's. It's Buck Wild because there's a scene where he's looking through a house and he. He, like, is looking for things to sell and he's like, oh, shit, Willow. And that, like, knocked me on my ass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really funny. Really sweet. Really? Like, knowing that Zach Kreger wrote that movie to, like, channel his grief at losing Trevor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trevor.

[A]

One of the whitest kids, you know. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Is it adds a. A layer of, like, understanding to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I get why someone would want to inject comedy and grief into.

[A]

Yeah. Trevor Moore. Yeah.

[B]

Weapons.

[A]

Weapons. His next movie is Resident Evil also. Really? Yeah.

[B]

He's.

[A]

He's rebooting Resident Evil.

[B]

Yeah. You think it's gonna be good?

[A]

I would say no if it wasn't him. He knows ball from what I've seen

[B]

also, Resident Evil is kind of funny a lot of the time.

[A]

That's what I mean. Like, a lot of Resident Evil is camp. I think he could probably pull off camp if he wanted to. And weapons in particular made me, like, very confident. I see that. Yeah. I'm more hopeful than I would have been.

[B]

Do you think they're gonna bring back Mila Jovovich?

[A]

I would guess no.

[B]

Hey, maybe.

[A]

What's your number four album of the year?

[B]

My number four album of the year is FKA Twigs album YouSexua.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I went through a breakup earlier this year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this record came out right around that time. And the way Twiggy happens to release her music right at the moments in my life that I need it most, just by pure circumstance, is something I've written about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's so. It's such a beautiful and cathartic and lonely and wintry and sad and sexy and lushly produced. Listen, I think there's a chance that it's. It's not my favorite record by her because I think Magdalene is my favorite by her still, even since the release of you Sexual. But sometimes a record comes out and it just, like, hits you right at the perfect time that you need it. And this one. Did I listen to the song you Sexual? And the song Sticky? And the song Striptease? I don't know, a thousand times each. I looked at my Apple music replay stats, and I was like, oh, that's not right. I remember listening to it this many times in a day.

[A]

Yeah. So. Right.

[B]

But there's something so delicate and haunting about her, this, like, vibe she's always had, even though in real life, she's kind of just, like, I don't know, Silly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, she had a Subway takes, and it was about her being a germaphobe, and she was, like, giggly and laughing the whole time. And it's Just the. The polar opposite vibe of her music for the most part. It's like Hayao Miyazaki and Junji Ito.

[A]

Yeah. Or the other Miyazaki that makes Dark Souls. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Loves his poison swamps.

[A]

Yeah. He's like a very jovial, sweet man. Irl.

[B]

Really.

[A]

Yeah. Hidetaka Miyazaki is like, famously what you would expect Hayao Miyazaki to be like. And Hayao Miyazaki is what you would expect Hidetaka Miyazaki to be like that.

[B]

I did not know that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought Hidetaki Miyazaki was similarly dour, but maybe that's. They get it all out with their Dark Souls and their Usex was. But I don't know. I. I've spilled a lot of ink about this record and I love it a lot and it means a lot to me. I don't know how when I make these lists, there was like a few years in the middle where I wasn't making them because listening to too much music got overwhelming. But I've recently gotten back into it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's. It's fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I started doing it more in earnest and more thinking about these things more critically since Smile came out last year. A record that we both loved a whole lot.

[A]

Yeah. If we did this list last year, Smile would have been my number one. Yeah.

[B]

Smile was also my number one last year.

[A]

Porter Robinson, Smile, by the way.

[B]

You should check it out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that got me back into. Really diving into why records stick with me the way they do. And I think Smile, I've only listened to a few times this year. Like, it didn't move far beyond last year for me, but it still would remain my album of the year that year because it meant so much to me when it came out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I needed it then. And I think Usexual is going to be a little similar. I'm not sure how far beyond this year it's going to carry me, but. But I think sometimes things show up when you need them and do the work they need to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even if they don't stick with you far beyond that time, they're still. They were still important for that moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's how. That's how you Sexual makes me feel.

[A]

Hell, yeah. I'm glad.

[B]

Did you ever see the, like, the tags on the streets around, like the Lorries and Soho and stuff of like. Have you experienced yousexual?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a lot of people spray painting stuff on sidewalks in New York that's actually ads for Things usually. Have you ever seen that one? I don't even know who it is. There's just that one person who, like, writes quotes about love, and then it's their Instagram handle.

[B]

I think I have seen that.

[A]

Yeah. That's all over the place. There's just, like, one person. I wish I knew their name off the top of my head because I see their stuff, like, constantly.

[B]

Your number four.

[A]

My number four album of the year. Okay. So before, when I was talking about the artists who. I have best of lists where I don't skip any of their songs. There's a secret third one, and it's Fourth Wanderers.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

They have released, or they before this year had released two albums which I thought were, like, perfect rock albums, really. Like, kind of melancholic teen angst albums that I absolutely adored. Back to front, both of them. Then they broke up Probably, I think, 2016 or 2017 or so I remember. It's when I was working at Anchors before I started Disney. They broke up. There's this long list of bands that I have found, like, right after they broke up and We'll Never get to see again. And 4th Wanderers was one of them, and that almost added this extra emotive layer to their music, to me. But I never thought that we would get another Fourth Wanderers album again because, again, I mean, the band broke up. It's been over a decade from what I understood. The lead singer went on to, like, I think, open a wine bar with. With the lead singer of the national. Also. It's like. Like an indie rock wine bar. I don't know, somewhere in New York. Should we go And. Probably, yeah. I have it on a list of places I want to go visit at some point. But anyway, they opened up this bar. They've been doing that for a while, and it just seemed like, okay, we're not gonna get music ever again, probably. And then all of a sudden, literally out of nowhere, this album came out. It's called the Longer this Goes On. And it's just another fucking great Fourth Wanderers album. And I think there's. There are multiple feelings I have about artists who don't really change their vibe or their tone that much. Sometimes I can find it, like, cloying and repetitive. And sometimes I'm like, that is actually literally all I want is just more of this. And that's kind of what I got from this album. It is just more of the thing that I wanted and already loved from them. So now I have another album in that playlist of non skips. That I adore. 4th Wanderers, the longer this goes on.

[B]

4th Wanderers, the Secret, 3rd artist and

[A]

my 4th favorite album of the year.

[B]

Was that on purpose or.

[A]

No, it just happened to be that way.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

I didn't think about it until I said it out loud.

[B]

That's serendipity, baby.

[A]

Number number four. Your number four.

[B]

My number four. Movie of the year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Technically didn't come out this year, but it was only widely released this year or more widely. No Other Land.

[A]

No Other Land. I haven't even heard of this.

[B]

It is the documentary about people living in the west bank.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Pre2023 and how the settler colonialism on the part of Israel was affecting their lives and livelihood. It was a collaboration between Israeli and Palestinian directors. Well, and writers. And it's mostly like iPhone recordings and like handheld camera recordings of people living and working and repairing their towns as Israel kind of dicks people around and claims to be building like army barracks and destroying schools.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Children still in them. And it's a very tough watch.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[B]

And I think the most important thing about this movie to me is the fact that it is all filmed before 2023.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A lot of people like to only really started paying attention on October 7, 2023 and beyond on both sides of the debate. And this was going on well before that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People were being dicked around and uprooted from their homes and shuttled into second class citizenry for almost 100 years.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think it's really important watch that movie. If you would like to learn a little more. If you don't already haven't been keeping up with the genocide, I would recommend the work and writing of Dana L. Kurd, who does a lot of episodes for the podcast. It could happen here on Cool Zone Media and iHeart. I'm not a professional, so I don't really want to spend too much time speaking to the genocide aside from acknowledging that it is happening. Yeah, it is ongoing. Palestinians are being massacred still. Even though I believe there's currently supposed to be a ceasefire. They're still being killed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And read up, pay attention, call your lawmakers and when primary time comes, maybe try and get these motherfuckers out of office.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Looking at you, Chuck.

[A]

Looking number four at you, Chuck. That's no other land. Which I just added to my watch list.

[B]

Another land.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I want to shout out Film Forum, who has been Film Forum in the Zen soho, I believe.

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[B]

It's a theater that does a Lot of really good, really anti genocide, anti colonial programming, and I recommend it. I went there with my partner M, and friends Andrew and Addie to watch this movie and we all left feeling obviously very bad, very righteously angry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's important to be righteously angry sometimes.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. There's one scene in the film that I've been thinking about a lot. One of the directors and a person who's featured in the film lives in Israel and drives out to the west bank to like, help and create the documentary and, like, help rebuild. And he's arguing with one of the other directors, cousins, about how he gets to just go back and go home and sleep in his bed while everyone else has to constantly be on the run or hiding or just like living on scraps. And they're arguing, but then one of the other people there is like, all right, we got to go rebuild the shack. And then after they're arguing, he like puts his hand on the guy's shoulder and is like, all right, let's go build this thing. And it's like, you can have your very mild differences in ideology, but as long as you're like doing the work and actually fighting back and actually trying to rebuild and actually trying to help in a substantial way, the petty squabbles don't matter as much as actually being present.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also want to note that I don't know the status of this now, but a few months ago, one of the directors of no Other Land was abducted by the idf.

[A]

Oh, my God. Really?

[B]

Yeah. I haven't followed up on that story since, but they're not really happy that this movie is being circulated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And won an Academy Award. So that's no Other Land.

[A]

No Other Land. All right, I'm definitely watching it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's your number four bummer movie? For different reasons. Blue Moon.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Yeah. This is, you know, talking about Hamnet before and being like, Jesse Buckley is definitely going to win the Oscar. I don't think Ethan Hawke is going to win the Oscar for his performance in Blue Moon. And I think that that's a. He absolutely should. This crime. This is. This is the best performance I've seen this year. It's the best performance I've seen from Ethan Hawke, definitely. He plays songwriter Lorenz hart in the 40s. It's dramatized so that he is sitting at this one very specific bar the night that Oklahoma is released. Oklahoma being by Rodgers and Hammerstein before Oklahoma had happened. Richard Rodgers most famous co writing partner was Lorenz Hart. This is the first thing that he made without Hart. And obviously Oklahoma is like a huge, unbelievable blockbuster smash hit that still resonates and exists today and is being performed in high schools everywhere and being reinterpreted all the time.

[B]

Wasn't there just a Broadway re release like last year?

[A]

Yeah, maybe two years ago. It was great. It was very dark production of Oklahoma, which was exceptional. Percy and I went to go see. Was really, really good. In this movie Hart goes to see. It opens with him going to see Oklahoma, walking out before it's over and then going to his local haunt bar and just monologuing for about two hours. Ethan Hawke. If you look at pictures of this movie, you're like, that's Ethan Hawke. If you watch this movie, it is not Ethan Hawke. It is Lauren's heart. He is basically transformative in this thing.

[B]

Such a hater.

[A]

He is. He is the all time hater. He hates Oklahoma. And he will talk about it nonstop to everybody that he talks to, including Richard Rogers. When he shows up, his former writing partner, while he's in the same breath asking him if he wants to work on something new together, he's like, also, Oklahoma sucks. The interesting thing about it is the immediate acknowledgment also that like, Oklahoma's gonna live on forever. He's like, it's good in that general audiences are gonna love it, but it's bad. And that it's not about anything, which is wrong. To be clear, he's just a hater, but his performance in this role is like unreal. It's basically like a one room drama for the most part. But if you know anything about Hart, like, he is famously an alcoholic and does not handle himself very well throughout the course of the movie. It starts off as like, wow, what a fun guy to be around. And over time you're like, wow, what an incredibly grating person to be around who is just like basically filled with misery and is trying to in all instances deflect his own feelings of inadequacy as much as possible by talking non stop and not letting himself or anybody else think about it. But all it really does is make everybody think about it all the time. Because he's bringing it up constantly, which is, it's tough. I mean, it's basically like an anxious life at its core because he has, he has feelings that like, his work won't last. And you know, what's interesting is that it has, you know, a lot of his songs are very famous, including the one the movie is named after. It is a. It is a tough watch, definitely. Despite also being a fucking blast to watch because, like, divorced from what you know about Heart and where the movie is going to end, I won't say how it opens, but like, it opens in a way that it's basically like Titanic adjacent. You are watching it the entire time, being like, if you don't know anything about this guy, it would be amazing to go into a bar on some snowy night in the 40s and see this guy sitting there and have a conversation with him. Like, what I would give to talk to him at this time. And simultaneously like, what a tragic, sad man he was. And Ethan Hawke plays him perfectly.

[B]

He does.

[A]

I've. It's funny, I didn't even realize this about myself, but I've seen a lot of Ethan Hawke's movies. Like almost everything he's been in, I've seen. And this is like by far his best movie. And I think the most interesting thing too is like, it's directed by Richard Linklater, who I don't think I mentioned at all yet. This is one of his best movies. Also, very clearly to me, I am very, very mixed on Linklater. I love the before trilogy and almost nothing else.

[B]

You see Hitman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You didn't like it?

[A]

I thought it was fine. It's a Glen Powell acting reel, which is great. And he's getting a lot of great roles because he did that movie, I think. But I wouldn't look at that movie and be like, it's good because Linklater did it. You know what I mean? This is his best movie since the before trilogy. Definitely, in my opinion. I think it's probably. It's like top three for me. And also all while he's working on his. He's trying to one up Boyhood right now. Do you know about this?

[B]

I did not know about this.

[A]

So did you know boyhood took 12 years to make? I did.

[B]

I did hear that.

[A]

Believe it or not, he's trying to one up it by doing. I think it's a 20 or 30 year movie right now. It's an adaptation of the Sondheim musical Merrily We Roll Along.

[B]

Wow. So like this was when Sondheim shows up in Blue Moon. That's like a. Yeah, a little MCU Easter egg.

[A]

Yeah, I honestly very truly think it is because I imagine, you know, while doing the research to adapt Merrily into a film, he probably learned a lot about Sondheim and then found out that he liked New New Larry at some point. You know, I don't know Maybe Weird moment in that movie. Definitely. But anyway, he's. He's doing, he's doing it as, as a, like a 30 year project, as that play or that musical takes place over the course of 30 years and he's like, we're going to shoot it in real time.

[B]

When did he start?

[A]

Like two years ago, three years ago? Yeah.

[B]

He ain't making it that far.

[A]

I know. I'm like dreading it. But anyway, I'm glad that in between shooting sprees for that movie, he's making other stuff like this makes me happy.

[B]

Blue Moon rocks. It is my number 12. It's like just outside rather than Marty Supreme.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I think the thing that I said about Blue Moon right after watching it is this is what would have happened to Jesse from the before trilogy if he never met Selene. Become this really like jaded, washed up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like wannabe writer who's like everyone. Everyone has moved past.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I, I think, I agree that it's like Ethan Hawke's best role that I've seen him in for sure. I don't. I think I still prefer Before Sunset as like a Linklater movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, it's Blue Moons.

[A]

Me too. By the way, I think Sunset is his best movie. Yeah.

[B]

I. There's the writer. E.B. white has a kind of small role in this movie, but he gets a few lines and scenes that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you mentioned that your dream, or one's dream walking into a bar is meeting someone like Lorenz Hart and like listening to him talk. But I think if you are already at the bar trying to drink and be alone and that guy walks in, you're like, oh, Jesus.

[A]

Oh, God damn. Yeah, right, Exactly.

[B]

And I think EB White is that guy. But watching him warm up to Lorenz and slowly like kind of unfold and like humor him and be like, you know what? You're all right. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was so charming. I really loved that role in particular. It was really understated and cool. And yeah, I agree that it could have been a stage play.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it turns really stressful once, like the rest of the party, like exits the musical and shows up at the bar. You get Andrew Scott and like Andrew

[A]

Scott is Richard Rogers, which is very interesting performance. His. His specific like American 1940s accent.

[B]

It's. He struggles to hide his accent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's really funny. But the way Roger's like eyes are darting around while he's talking to Lorenz is such. It's so natural. Like I've been caught in the corner by an old guy talking at me about things. And I've been like, alright, I want to get out of here.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

That was man. Blue Moon really good.

[A]

Blue Moon really good.

[B]

Glad you watched it.

[A]

Yeah. I loved it as much as you could love that Number three, My top three. Wow.

[B]

We're in. We're in there.

[A]

We're in there.

[B]

This is like the home stretch.

[A]

Yeah. Number three album of the year.

[B]

My number three album of the year is Deaf Heaven's album.

[A]

Lonely People With Power. Yeah. I've heard of this one, but I haven't heard this one.

[B]

Do you like this kind of music? Like black metal. Metal. And I know you like, enjoy hardcore here and there.

[A]

Yeah. It's like I need to be in a really specific mood. I kind of listen to everything, but it's like everything.

[B]

Asterisk.

[A]

Yeah. It just. It needs to be calling to me. It's not very often that I put something like this on.

[B]

This record. Came out way earlier this year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I try not to have too much recency bias in like, where and what I put on my lists and try and, you know, reevaluate stuff that I heard way earlier. But this record, I didn't have to do that because it just stuck with me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For the entire year. It's. They had a really huge breakthrough record called Sunbather 12 years ago now. And that was my first time hearing them. And the song Dreamhouse is a masterwork. And I think it's one of the greatest songs ever written. I kind of fell off of them since then. I didn't listen to them too much in between then and now. But this record this year is. Is also a masterwork. I think the whole thing is as good as Dream House is as a song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the way the narrative unfolds. And they have. The thing about black metal is it's like the vocals are delivered with mostly screeching.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's hard to interpret anything they're saying. But once. Once you take a pass the lyrics one time, it all becomes a lot more clear. Like less unintelligible screaming and more really intense critiques of power. And the way people use it and the way people manipulate it and use it to manipulate others. Yeah. The lyrical content is really poetic and angry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And powerful. There are a few interludes. There's one with Paul Banks from Interpol delivering like a monologue that's interesting about the story happening on the album cover.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is. I. If I'm not mistaken, it is a man Pulling up to hire a prostitute on the street with. With a child in the car. That's, like, what the album cover is portraying.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they write songs about that experience and how that would impact a child being in that situation. And it's kind of how it feels to live these days. Like, we're all just kind of subject to this. The horrors, this thing that we should not be exposed to that, namely, children should not be exposed to every single day of our lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's also really punishing. The guitars, loud as hell. Yeah. Guitar tone, really, really good. The drums, like, really, you know, like caveman, Unga bunga stupid. Just blast beats constantly. But done so well. There's one synth and guitar breakdown interlude that is. If we're talking songs of the year, I believe it's called Incidental 2 with Jay Matthews from Boy Harsher. And it's. That is one of my favorite songs of the year. Even though it's just an interlude, it's just so well done and so crushing. This album made me go back and reread the book Grendel by John Gardner, which is about the story. It's like an interpretation of Beowulf through the perspective of Grendel, like, terrorizing the town. And then when he meets Beowulf and Beowulf kills him. Spoilers for Beowulf.

[A]

Spoilers for Beowulf.

[B]

And then I started reading Beowulf because I wanted to kind of understand the. The nature of terrible power being utilized for bad reasons and even more powerful people coming along and, like, conquest and poetry and really, like, harsh worlds and the beauty within them. And it's been really rewarding to read that, and I'm glad that an album inspired me to finally read it.

[A]

Yeah, Beowulf's good.

[B]

I don't know if that's. Like, I'm enjoying reading it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. Maybe because I didn't have to read it for school.

[A]

Beowulf's good.

[B]

Lonely People with power is good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's my number three.

[A]

Did you not like the books you had to read in school?

[B]

Some of them stuck with me. I had to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for school.

[A]

Did you really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's an interesting one.

[B]

For school. It was like a college level course or something. Yeah, it was like a. It was a college level course.

[A]

Yeah. I had a high school teacher recommend that book to me, but it wasn't like, I didn't have to read it for a class, but I did read it in high school because an English teacher told me I Should check it out. Did you like it when I was 15 at. Yeah, I did.

[B]

I wonder if I'd like it now.

[A]

I also wonder if I would like it now. Yeah, I haven't really thought about it since then, honestly.

[B]

Still own a copy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Much to think about.

[A]

Much, much to Motorcycle Maintenance about. Am I right or what? My. My. My thing with. I was just talking to my parents about this the other day, but, like, I was a really terrible student in high school, specifically in English class, but I, like, obsessively read and reread all of the books that we had to read in high school. Like, I loved almost all of them, and I would read them constantly, and then anytime they, like, told me to, like, take a quiz about them or, like, actually, no, the tests I always did well on, but, like, if I had to, like, write essays about them, I just wouldn't do it.

[B]

Did you like writing in high school?

[A]

On and off.

[B]

It's interesting.

[A]

If I was writing for school, then no, but if I was writing for myself, then yes.

[B]

Huh. Wow. Yeah, I've never. I. You could barely get me to read any of. I didn't finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I made it to, like, the last 10 chapters and called it. And then, yeah, I kind of made up. I kind of hallucinated what happened at the end for my essay and did

[A]

get an A. Oh, there you go.

[B]

Sometimes if you lie in school. No, don't. Don't.

[A]

Will. GPT hallucinated the ending of the book. Pu. My number three album of the year is Sister by Frost Children. Let's go. This is just the most fun album I heard this year. I mean, just like, pound for pound, like, you put it on and she's like, a joy the whole time. This is a real, like, the kids are all right album for me. They're not even that much younger than I am, but I remember listening to it for the first time and just being like, these. This is. This is a sibling duo that has been inspired by a lot of the things I was listening to probably in, like, my freshman year of college, like, end of high school era, you know, the Skrillexes of the world, the Dead Mouses of the world, etc. But also, like, metro station and 303. And, like, a lot of these bands that were, like, really maligned because they sucked. But Frost Children is, at least on this album, taking a lot of inspiration from that kind of music. This, like, synth pop emo scene hybrid and being like, we're gonna synthesize that into something totally new. And they do come out the other end with a thing that does sound like their influences. Like, they're very much wearing them on their sleeves, but feels like a kind of perfected version. It's like perfect cell version of all of those influences put together. And when I heard it for the first time, I was just like, this is what Those people in 2009, 2010 were really trying to accomplish, but I don't think had the wherewithal to get to, while simultaneously, again, they're pulling from all the things that have happened since, right? So there are these acknowledgments that, yes, Skrillex basically not invented, but kind of popularized dubstep in a big way. And there's a lot of pulling from, like, his production style in there and the rise of house as, like, the culture in a way that it wasn't, you know, even. Even when we were in high school. Like, in that era, going and seeing, like, deadmau5 was not a super popular thing to do, despite, like, how big he was. But, like, the festivals, the size that we have now, like, the EDM festivals that exist now were not the size that they are now back then. And Frost Children is pulling from all of that on this album and just making, like, the most fun record they possibly can based on all those influences. And it's a joy to listen to. My only complaint about it, literally my only critique is just the first song doesn't drop as hard as I want it to. It builds for, like, almost its entire runtime. And then when it, like, quote unquote, drops, it feels very. Which is, you know, again, more of them pulling from their influences. But it sounds very like Avicii to me, which is, like, fine, but it does it. I want it to, like, slam, and it doesn't, because the rest of the album feels like a payoff for that opening track. Also, just say, like, Ralph Lauren is a track on that album that I just. I listen to obsessively still. Like, I just. I. It's on repeat all the time. I love it.

[B]

Damn. First of all, rest in peace of each.

[A]

Yeah, seriously.

[B]

Second of all, that was one of the records that I was. I happened to be on a walk through Brooklyn, and you texted me, like, will, listen to this right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is. I think how you usually recommend music to me is usually, stop what you're doing.

[A]

Listen to it right now. Yeah.

[B]

And I did. And I was like, damn, this is it. Met that moment for sure. I was. It made my day Better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also the. I keep bringing up album covers, but it's just a cool square drawn on. I believe one of the members of Frost Children's back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is just such a really lovely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The cool S is emblematic of the era they were. They came out of.

[A]

Totally. Yeah.

[B]

And all them metro stations and three or threes walked so they could run.

[A]

Yeah. They're sprinting.

[B]

They came out when we saw Porter Robinson last year to do Mona Lisa.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really sick.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Porter Robinson helped with the production of that album, which is cool.

[B]

I can't wait to see what he's gonna. Not to move the combo away from Frost Children, but I really can't wait to see what Porter's gonna do next.

[A]

Yeah. Where are we? Number three.

[B]

Number three. My number three movie of the year is. Sorry, Baby.

[A]

Yeah. Another one I haven't seen yet.

[B]

It's another one that you gotta see.

[A]

I am dying to watch.

[B]

Like, I'm looking at you.

[A]

It's literally the first movie on my watch list. Like, when I open my watch list, it's like the top one.

[B]

It's directorial debut from Eva Victor. And just an immaculate portrayal of. For whatever reason. There is a very particular, very heartbreaking reason that it happens in this film that I don't think I want to spoil. But I guess I should give a content warning that there is a sexual assault in the movie, which is kind of the crux of it. I admittedly wish I had known that going in because it's a little tough. But just a movie about feeling stagnant as a young adult and feeling like everyone in your life is moving past and beyond you while you're not moving. And I. This is one of a few movies that I've seen in my life where I. The only ticket available was front row. And it was like I was doing craning my neck back for the entire thing. But it didn't matter because of how good the movie was. There's a scene where Agnes finds a kitten on the street.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just kind of picks it up and takes it home and then walks through the door. And Naomi Acke's character looks at her walking through the door with the cat and just says, whatever you need. And, like, accepts that.

[A]

And that's great.

[B]

That kind of love where someone that you love does something. I don't. Maybe a little ridiculous, but something they clearly needed to get through whatever they're going through in that moment. And you just kind of accept it and roll with the punches with them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's kind of what makes this movie grip me in the heart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is people, both loved ones and strangers gathering around you to give you what you need in the moment. There's one scene that people who've seen this film will talk about that is really important, where she just pulls into the parking lot of a sandwich shop. And that might, if I'm really thinking about it, that might be my favorite scene in any film this year. They're like the two movies above this. There are a lot of scenes I really, really love in those, but nothing quite like that one. Yeah, that's. Sorry, Baby. Sorry, baby. You gotta watch it.

[A]

I'm really excited to watch it.

[B]

It's also really funny, I will say. Like, it's. It's a comedy drama and there are a lot of really funny scenes in the movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's subject matter in the film that might be a little, like, squeamish to joke about, but they still do successfully and tastefully joke about it and it's done really well.

[A]

Yeah. Nice.

[B]

What's yours?

[A]

My number three movie of the year is One Battle After Another.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

Directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. Man, how do you even talk about this one? I'll say this, I'm a big Paul Thomas Anderson fan, which is not surprising for a person who likes movies. A lot of people are big Paul Thomas Anderson fans. He's a very popular director. The only movie I've ever seen that didn't really click with me of his was Inherent Vice. I've seen it twice. Both times I was like, I don't. I don't know if this one's for me. One Battle after another, in some ways, to me feels almost like Inherent Vice again. But I don't. I don't want to be too dismissive of it, but, like, done right, maybe. It's obviously about right now in a big way. I specifically, I think it's paired up against Eddington a lot as, like, these are two movies tackling a lot of the same subject matter, and a lot of people liked one of them a lot more than the other one, which does make me interested in watching Eddington even more. Actually. I think specifically, the thing that really strikes me about this is first of all, its format, like, the way the narrative is structured, I think is very interesting. The very long opening with Leonardo DiCaprio's character as Bob and his relationship with Perfidia, played by Tiana Taylor, who's like, I mean, probably one of the best performances of the year. Also, like, just an all timer PTA performance also, but their relationship and the ups and downs of it and specifically the downs of it and how it wraps up and where her character goes throughout the rest of the movie is like, that could have been its own film by itself and would have been also in my top three, probably. And then where they decide to take it from there, you know, skipping ahead many years. Leo's raising their daughter. The reintroduction of Sean Penn's character, which that performance also. Unbelievable.

[B]

Terrifying. Best horror performance of the year.

[A]

Best horror performance of the year. Best walk of the year. If that was an Oscar he would get. It definitely should be. Yeah. It'd be like him and Tim Robinson in Friendship maybe are, like, the only two who would be in the running for it, really. But the structure of this thing, I just think is exceptional. And on top of that, I think a lot of its portrayals, I mean, obviously there's like, the heavy look at, like, kind of the conservative structures and the power imbalance that exists right now. And specifically, even though this was, you know, has been in the works for, I think he said, like, five to 10 years, like, it's been the works for a long time.

[B]

Trying to adapt Vineland for Forever.

[A]

Yeah, for a really long time. Yeah. I think longer than that. Right. It's been, like, maybe 20 years. I don't know. It's been a long time. Obviously, the depictions of, like, the. The camps that they're sending immigrants to, et cetera, et cetera, are, like, very, very, very relevant and of the moment. And being able to watch, like, groups of people essentially push up against the powers that be and not only, like, free the people who are having all these injustices thrust upon them, but then also dispensing justice on to these, like, military freaks who have decided to make Misery their job is, in a way, like, heartwarming, despite how heavy it is. Like, it's. It's exhilarating to watch a bunch of people be like, no, we're. We're going to fight against this as. As visibly as possible in ways that you kind of, like, can't really in real life because of, like, the surveillance infrastructure that exists. And, you know, they. They try their best in. In the film, but I think one of the things that's most interesting about it to me is the fantastical element of it. You know, I think the. The fantasy, and I don't mean that as, like, what I wish I could do, but I mean specifically, like, the fantastical elements of the way some of these things are depicted is what makes Them hit as hard as the. They do. Like, there is. There's a sequence that takes place where they show. I forget the full name of it, but it's like the Christmas Club. And it's like all these old white. The Christmas Adventures Club. It's all these old white guys who is like, you know, the cartoon. Even more cartoonish version of, like, the masked cult in Eyes Wide Shut, you know, but it's like five billionaires who are like, you know, we control the world, basically. But they call themselves the Christmas Adventurers Club. And they all are so lame. And they all wear the same, like, stupid Patagonia vest.

[B]

Really terrible aesthetics. And also, like, mega racists.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a kind of racism that's like. You can find it these days, but it's harsh to find.

[A]

You can only really find it in closed rooms with these five guys in them. It's that kind of stuff that really elevates it past, I think, being just like, oh, this is a movie about right now. To, like. This is a movie that's about always, all of it. Following Leo's character as Bob, who is completely inconsequential to the plot, but is also our lens through which we see this world, I think is, like, one of the more brilliant writing decisions I've seen in a long time. The fact that he is completely inept at this point at the kind of revolution that he wants to start, but is also kind of cosplaying the part of somebody who is making it happen is very interesting. Like, you could remove him from the plot of the movie and nothing would change, literally at all. And yet he's our window into it. And I think in particular, the one. The one that really hits me is. Is the bit where he meets Benicio del Toro's character, who is. He plays a guy who is like a karate instructor in this one town. He goes by sensei, and he is everything that Leo thinks that he is. And just the portrayal of, like, Leonardo DiCaprio scrambling to be. To have, like, any. Any semblance of a hold on what's happening. You know, trying desperately to charge his phone. He's just, like, plugging his phone into outlets for, like, eight seconds to get, like, maybe 1% of 1% of a charge on his iPhone, while Benicio Del Toro's character is, like, simultaneously moving entire, like, families and groups to safety away from what is basically an ice raid without breaking a sweat. You know, it's like, oh, we've practiced this a million times. We're gonna do it. It's gonna be totally fine. Does not care at all. Even the. Even. You know, there's a scene that's been going around of like the moment where he gets arrested and he's like doing a little dance on the highway. Cause, like, he knows he's gonna be fine and he knows that he did his job already.

[B]

Like a few small beers scene is a line that's really only a few small beers. Yeah.

[A]

It's just like every, every decision is great in this movie. It's the fastest three hours I've ever had in a movie theater. I thought it was great. One of another all timer PTA movie. Loved it.

[B]

I really want to rewatch it.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I saw it at the Lincoln square IMAX in 70 millimeter.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

At 8:45 in the morning. Because that was the only time that I could go that could like fit it into my schedule. But I was like, I know I have to go see this because I'm also a huge PTA fan. Boogie Nights is my favorite movie ever.

[A]

Is it really?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know that recently because I rewatched it after we rewatched Roma and I was like, no, it's. It's Boogie Nights.

[A]

It's Boogie Nights.

[B]

Yeah. Roma's still up there though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had a few, like, issues with its portrayal of a few things. Like this is. We're a little bit spoilers, so I guess skip ahead if you don't want to know what happens to certain characters. But Regina Hall's character just kind of vanishes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I, I in some ways understands, like narratively and world wise why something like that might be important for a character to just disappear. Because that does happen. Alanna Haim gets capped in the head in the first half hour of the movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So people do just disappear. But I think it kind of the way other characters got to have this, like, really a lot of agency in their endings and like get happy endings. Even Sean Penn's character, Lockjaw, gets like resolved in the end.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

But the way her character just vanished really bugged me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because she was so pivotal in the plot and then just kind of gets tossed aside in a way that I felt was not narratively satisfying or cool. And it bothered me personally a little bit that Johnny Greenwood did the score for this when he's like a huge, unrepentant Zionist. And like, for him to be doing the score of this movie, of all movies, is a little. Made me feel a little weird. Yeah, no, it was a good score. But other Than that, though. This movie was a fucking ride.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The ending with the. The roads and like going up and down. Watching that in a giant screen, I felt like I was on like nitro at Six Flags. Yeah. Like, it was like my stomach was turning, like watching that whole thing play out. I was. My hands were sweaty. I was like. I don't think I blinked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That whole thing. I thought Willa was just a perfect little shit eating protagonist. She was just not incompetent, but kind of like. What's the word? Like, oppositionally defiant. Like whenever people would tell her to do something, she would just not do that thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like when she kept the phone on her, I was like, of course she would keep the fucking phone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like ruin everything.

[A]

She's a teenager.

[B]

She's a teenager.

[A]

Yeah. She wants to do what she wants.

[B]

Every scene of Leo trying to like get the code on the phone was.

[A]

Yes. That. That bit in particular, I think is like one of the more incisive and accurate portrayals of leftism, like tone policing and. Yes.

[B]

Just. What's the word? It's like purity. Politic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, just because someone is. And I think the end does a really good job with this too, but just because someone not like knowing every single thing perfectly, but still trying their best, not being enough for some people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Who are like, have all the. The theory skills and all the like, practices and all the language down, but don't really know how to interface with another human being.

[A]

Yeah, is right.

[B]

I think that's really important.

[A]

Turning. Turning away help.

[B]

Yeah. It's like the.

[A]

At the time where you desperately need it most. Yeah.

[B]

I think the first few episodes of Andor did a really good job portraying like leftist infighting and people just not understanding the end. The end goal of what we're doing and getting really caught up in the imperfect execution.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that stuff was really important for me to see and I think people to see in general, like a little cathartic and. Yeah. I would give my life for Benicio Del Toro's character in this movie.

[A]

Yeah. Unreal.

[B]

He's just perfect.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Every scene with him was immaculate. Yeah, he's a perfect performance. Best supporting actor, Please give it to him. And yeah, I also, I also loved one battle after another. I have, like, some critiques.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

I really loved it.

[A]

This is the first year in a long time where I'm like, legitimately interested in what happens at the Academy Awards. Yeah. There's just been some great performances and some great movies this year that I really want to see where they. Where they land.

[B]

There are some people who really should win.

[A]

Yes. Number two album of the year, Will

[B]

My number two album of the year. My number two album of the year is Quatica's Vanisher, Horizon Scraper.

[A]

Another one I don't know anything about.

[B]

I'm curious if you'd like this one. If you listened, maybe you would.

[A]

Adding it to my list.

[B]

When is this coming out? Friday. Something. I don't know. Whenever Wavelengths comes out.

[A]

I'm not sure when this one in particular is going to come out. Yeah, I think around my goatee video.

[B]

Around the time or before this comes out. I believe I will have released a little interview I did with our friend Aaron about this record and her experience with it. And that kind of informs a lot of why I love it so much. It's this huge. Okay, so normally I don't really. With an album that's more than like 45 minutes max. I try. I like. I like my albums, my new albums a little shorter most of the time because when I see a runtime that's over 45 minutes, I think you really have to, like, earn me sitting and listening for over an hour if you want to give me an album that's over an hour long. I think this one is like 70 minutes long, and I think it earns it. The opening track is like eight minutes long.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's such a wonderful escape of a record. I've listened to the opening track of this album alone a whole bunch of times because I'll put it on whenever I walk through Prospect park. And it's a thing that just builds and builds and builds. And you think, listening to it, that there's no way the rest of the album can match the scope and grandeur of this opening track of layers of choral harmony and woodwinds and pianos and everything. And then it does. Rest of the album is as good, if not better than the opener. Quatica is someone. I don't actually. I don't know how it's pronounced. I'm not sure if it's Quadeca or Quatica.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he's someone who I found out about last year when he released a mixtape called Scrapyard. And he has this one song called Pretty Privilege on that mixtape that still, to this day, I listen to multiple times a week. And then I'll just replay it when it's over and I'll replay it when it's over. None, like the other songs on that mixtape are good, but none of them hit Me quite like that one. And I feel like this record was a whole album of songs that are hitting me. Like that song, it's about death, it's about adventure, it's about love. It's really immaculately produced. Danny Brown's on it for one song. Yeah. And Quatica's on Danny Brown's new record for a few songs too.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's really important to me. It makes me want to write more overheard songs. Like, it makes me want to get back with my friends and make music with them again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It makes me want to kind of expand the idea of what I think of when I'm writing like beyond synths and samples and guitar. Just like what else? Like World Wise or Lore Wise, Story Wise and texturally I can utilize to get a message across. And this one, I think is gonna stick with me for a long time. Like, I was talking earlier about how records don't really move beyond. Sometimes records don't move beyond the year that I first heard them, even though they were important to me then. But this one, I think is gonna maybe stick with me forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It might be one of my all timers. And it's only number two.

[A]

Yeah. I'm excited to hear about number one. How do you feel about the album art? Right.

[B]

It's one of my favorite album covers of this year. It's really pretty. It's got a little moon on the top corner and the like there's a. It's a navy blue background and there's white like feather looking things that fold out into a sail.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It looks like an abstract painting of a sailboat on the water at night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I think sailing is a big theme on the record too. Really good album cover. I'm not sure it's my. It's one of my favorites of the year. I'm not sure if it's my favorite album cover of the year, but there are a lot of good ones, so.

[A]

There are a lot of good ones. That's Quatica, Vanisher, Horizon Scraper, which I've added to my list of things to check out. Good. I'm excited.

[B]

What's your number?

[A]

My number two album of the year, probably unsurprisingly, or maybe surprisingly, because it's number two. Not number one is I Love My Computer by Nina Jirachi.

[B]

Number two.

[A]

Number two. I fucking love this album. I love my computer. I love this album. I just don't think anybody's made an album that felt to me so that. So perfectly encapsulates exactly how I feel about technology. I always. I always find it really hard to articulate my relationship with technology, especially, like now in the past couple of years, as I would say, over the past, like, decade maybe, as these people who we built up as, you know, like the heroes of the Internet, you know, people who made social media platforms and all this other stuff have so quickly become corrupted and have become like, basically the. The people standing between, like, culture and everyone else. You know, there was a time where I was in high school and it was 2007, and, like, my one other friend and I signed up for Twitter and we were just tweeting back and forth at each other, like during class, instead of texting, because we were the only people who had Twitter.

[B]

That was back when you could, like, text on your.

[A]

You texted 404 on your phone. Yes. Yeah. Instead of. Instead of like, going on the Internet and doing it and I mean, we all know where Twitter's at now. And also, like, signing up for Facebook and being excited about it and being like, we're going to be connected forever now because Facebook exists, isn't that exciting? And the ways in which Facebook has become, you know, like, in some ways, like the poster child of how bad social media and the Internet can be for us, while simultaneously the Internet has become the thing that allows me to have this job that I'm doing right now and has connected me to people I never would have met before, who don't live anywhere near me, has allowed me to learn how to do everything that I do on a daily basis and anything that I would ever be interested in doing. There's, like, so much that I am grateful for to be alive right now at this exact moment that is only due to the technology that exists. And for that reason, and especially growing up, I think when we did where, like, you know, I was listening to an episode of the Verge cast recently, and they were talking about aol. They were talking about, like, America Online and AIM in particular. And they were like, there was a time where you needed to set an away message on AIM because the Internet was a place in your house that you went to. Like, the Internet was like, you had a computer room or you had a computer in another room and you needed to sit down there. And that's how you got on the Internet. It wasn't just ambiently with you all the time. And I've been thinking about that a lot recently just in terms of, like, how far back my, like, creative interest in the Internet has been around, you know, even Going back to, like, learning little bits of HTML and CSS to be able to, like, edit my away message and stuff, and then MySpace and Zanga and all of these things. But, like, if you grew up at that time when all of that stuff was happening, and we have watched this, like, shift from the Internet as a place in your house that you have to go to to, you know, the first iPhone being released to where we are now. For me, at least, that wonder and that awe has never really faded away. But I also simultaneously acknowledge all of the bad parts and all of the darkness that's there. You brought up Infohazard earlier when you were talking about this album, which is, you know, about Nina finding a snuff film when she was a kid. And, like, I had that exact same experience. I remember being in a friend's basement with a bunch of other, like, teenage boys, and they were like, there's this one video that everybody's talking about. None of us knew what it was, but, like, we searched for it to find out what it was. It was one of the most horrible things I've ever seen in my life. And even talking about it right now, I can see still vividly picture it. Nina Jirachi captures all of that. Like, everything that I just described, she captures all of that on this album. That's unbelievable to have such a nuanced feeling about it captured in this relatively short span of an album. The one song that has really popped off from this one, which I think rightfully, because it's a fucking banger, but also I think is, like, really fantastic in terms of commentary on what it's like to live online. Is Delete, which is a song about she. She, like, wakes up and post something on I like her Instagram story or something like that, literally, just so her crush will see it. And then as soon as they do, she deletes it off of her story. Like, she's like, I'm posting it so you will see it. And then as soon as it's there, it's gone. Because you're the only person this is intended for, but I'm not gonna send it directly to you. It's gonna be a public thing. Is, like, such an interesting commentary on how we relate to technology and our relationships with each other, with technology as the bridge between us. That there are these all, like, fascinating, weird cultural norms that have just kind of, like, popped up around it, that we are all constantly needing to navigate and recontextualize all the time because things are evolving so fucking rapidly that, like, you can never really get a handle on anything. And then also it's fucking banger EDM album. Like every song rocks.

[B]

That's like. The other thing is on top of the commentary being wonderful and thoughtful and the like, the aesthetic design of the record being really evocative of Y2K and growing up in the burgeoning of the Internet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's. It just rocks.

[A]

It just is so good.

[B]

It's just really extremely good. And fun pop music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And getting those two things together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In one package is such a feat.

[A]

It's unreal.

[B]

And she's like, she's like so much younger than us. She's like a kid and like she's already off to this and I can't wait to see what she does next.

[A]

Yeah, I know. Me too.

[B]

Yeah. And like listening to the record reminded me of so many experiences with the Internet that I had as a very young kid that I. Things I shouldn't have seen and like getting talking to crushes and getting visual boy advance and like staying in touch with high school, middle school friends. All on aim.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All the sounds, the way she uses corrupt Internet sounds on Fuck my computer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She says, it says my name. It says. And then she uses like dial up tones to make the word Nina Jirachi.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a corruption of it.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

I wonder how long that took for her to put that together into a way that sounds almost like Nina Jirachi.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. That records really good. Good.

[A]

It's. It's amazing.

[B]

We have more in common on our list than I thought we would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Honestly, sick. Now I'm really curious what your number one is if that wasn't it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cuz I. I thought for sure that was going to be it.

[A]

We're on number two movies.

[B]

Number two movies.

[A]

We're almost there.

[B]

My number two movie of the year as of December 8th of this year is Sinners.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

It was at my number one spot for a really long time and new movie usurped it very last minute. But Sinners fucking rocks.

[A]

Sinners is amazing. Yeah. My,

[B]

My father and I like will talk about movies. Like one of the few ways we connect is we talk about movies and music usually. Like I'll text him like, hey, I saw this movie like the Godfather or To Live and Die in LA or something and I'll be like, great movie, William Friedkin. And then that'll be the end of the conversation and he'll spell William Friedkin wrong. But I called him one day and we talked about sinners because he'd finally gotten around to watching it. And he told me about this dream he had that I don't know if it was caused by the movie or in advance of it, but where he was visited by his great grandma and she was surrounded by, like, African tribesmen and she was asking him to look in a black pit, even though he wouldn't understand what was in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they all disappeared and he woke up. And I've been well in. And I've been thinking a lot about whether he had that dream before or after the movie. Because I'm thinking about the one scene that you can probably guess, which I'm talking about from the movie, which is one of the best. The best uses of diegetic music and one of the craziest scenes I've ever seen in a film where Sammy is playing for the juke or the. And the building explodes and he's visited by ancestors and Future.

[A]

Yeah, future.

[B]

What's the opposite of ancestors?

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. It's just past, present and future. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And the past, present and future of music. And everyone in the building has, like, this really cathartic sonic experience. And watching that scene, I saw it twice. And watching that scene both times, I was, like, gripping my chair, like, unable to believe what I was watching.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will say, the first time I was like, corny. And the second time I was like, oh, I was. I was incorrect. I was simply plumb wrong.

[A]

I've talked to so many people who saw that movie twice and felt that way exactly where, like, they literally were just like. Yeah. I thought it was, like, pretty good, you know, four stars, four and a half stars or whatever. And then they saw it again. They're like, what the fuck was I thinking? Yes.

[B]

That's when I saw it the first time I left the theater. And I was like, I know I have to see this again.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It wasn't like, sometimes I'll plan to. Like, I'll buy two tickets for a movie to see it twice. But this one I left and I was like. I immediately went home and I was like, I'm going to see it again.

[A]

Yes, I have to know.

[B]

And I went and saw it in 70 millimeter and it was so pretty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Michael B. Jordan is two Michael B. Jordan's.

[A]

Yeah, enough. Enough for the full five stars by itself. Yeah. The.

[B]

There's so much to take away from it. Like the nature of exploitation of black music, the nature of generational trauma and how our white ancestors who experienced colonialism and generational trauma. Kind of just buy into whiteness and then pass it along to the next generation.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who they try and convince to also buy into whiteness. The music was so good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The music in that movie is so goddamn good. It's just. Sexy movie. A lot of good, sexy movies this year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of people going down on other people.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

it's. Man, I'm so glad they gave Ryan Coogler a blank check to make this movie.

[A]

One of the. One of the, like, historic movie deals also. Oh.

[B]

Because he got, like, he has.

[A]

He has full. I think he owns the full intellectual property to the whole thing, which, like, basically doesn't happen outside of George Lucas making Star Wars. Like, that's so cool. So you could just kind of do whatever he wants with it. And I think he has distribution rights also, so he could just like, take it off of whatever streaming platform it's on whenever he wants and put it on a different one.

[B]

That's so sick.

[A]

Or release it himself or do whatever. Yeah. Wild.

[B]

I also love the way the. There were people talking about, like, oh, I hope they make a sequel or prequel using this or this. But I love the way there's the suggestion of this whole wide world, like, for example, with the Choctaw vampire hunters. That's like a thing that just exists in that world.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, there's something, I don't know, a lesser movie might have been like, oh, and stay tuned for the sequel to see what happens with those guys. But this movie, that was just. It's just the world has lived it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it exists. And it's similar to Lord of the Rings how, like, all the orcs had their own, like, handmade armor and stuff like that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, just. That wasn't. You didn't have to give us tastes of the rest of the world. You didn't have to suggest all the crimes and wild things that the brothers got up to in Chicago, but they did because it makes the movies universe feel lived in, but not in an exploitative way. In a natural way. Like, other things happen. Other people are living their lives. And this is Miles Catton's first movie. Unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I used to have a guitar just like that one.

[A]

Did you really? Yeah.

[B]

I played Overheard's first show with it and it broke. And I think about that guitar all the time.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

Dobro, Hound Dog, Resonator.

[A]

Yeah. I had one friend in high school who had one like that who was in my band. And it sounded amazing.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I was always super jealous.

[B]

They're really cool. I think Bonaver uses like an all metal one.

[A]

Oh, does he really?

[B]

But yeah, just everyone in the movie firing on all cylinders.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Orlando's character. Really good. Really funny. Yeah. And just sinners. I don't know.

[A]

It's Sinners, baby.

[B]

Like, everyone saw it, you know, so.

[A]

Yeah, it's good.

[B]

It is. What's your number two?

[A]

My number two is sentimental value, which you. You already called me out before we started recording. My. My letterboxd review for this was Drive My Car two. If you know.

[B]

I really want you to say more about that.

[A]

Yeah. If you know anything about me, you know. Drive My Car is one of my favorite movies ever made. Same. It's. If you haven't seen Drive My Car, I guess it's probably worth mentioning. I won't say too much about it, but it's a movie about a guy who is going through grief. He's a. He's a director and former stage actor who is putting on a production in this, like, seaside town in Japan and for reasons I also won't talk about, is not allowed to drive his own car. And the theater company hires a driver for him. And it's about his relationship with this driver who is driving his car, which he feels very strongly about as he's processing where his life has led him basically, and is trying to put on this production. It's a beautiful movie, visually beautiful movie, thematically, basically perfect, I think.

[B]

When's the last time you watched it?

[A]

It's been too long. But I do have the Blu Ray, which is nice, so I can watch it whenever.

[B]

I watched it twice in a week last month.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wild choice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So worth it.

[A]

Yeah. You talked to the microphone.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Wells leaning back as far as, like,

[B]

I'm making a bunch of throat gurgly noises that I didn't want to be picked up. But I watched Drive My Car twice last month.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I cried harder than I've cried in a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I basically agree with everything you're saying about it being a perfect movie on all fronts.

[A]

Yeah. Sentimental Value is tackling a lot of the same thematic ground just from a different perspective. Because you can imagine if the protagonist of Drive My Car had gone on to like, have a bunch of kids, it wouldn't be that outlandish to think that Stellan Skarsgard's children in this movie would basically be exactly in the same scenario. They would. They would be tackling the same kind of estrangement. From their father. And they would be wondering why they can't just have, like, a normal conversation with him. And it's because of generational trauma and grief, essentially. But I think more interestingly, and this is where this comes back, the only way he can really have a conversation with anybody in his life is through his work, through his art. Skarsgard's character is a director in this movie. And we learn pretty early on that one of his earlier movies was one in which his daughter played somebody on the run from basically the Nazis, like, Nazi adjacent in in the 40s. And I don't want to say a whole lot about, like, what that means in particular, but in the context of the ending of this movie, it kind of reframes how you think about why he would cast his daughter in that role at that age in particular, because she's pretty young. And the movie centers around him basically writing a film for his other daughter, who has not starred in a movie, but is an actress. Like, she is a stage actress, and she says no immediately. And he goes on to cast Elle Fanning, who is in this universe, basically just an extremely famous actress. Not that she's not in real life, but she's also one in this movie. It's interesting because she kind of plays a more famous actress in the movie than she is in real life. But anyway, Cats are in this role and just, like, struggles through the production of it. And it's basically flipping back and forth between his daughter, who is the lead of the film, and is this actress who turned down the role, like, struggling with the fact that she literally feels like she was born to play that role, but said no because of her relationship with her father, and also is, like, struggling because of the way acting takes a toll on her. Like one of the. I think it's the first scene of the movie is, like, her struggling to even get on stage. She has, I don't want to say, a panic attack. That's how everybody else talks about it. They talk about it as a panic attack. But my reading of it is that she's basically, like, giving it all on stage. Like, everything she has within her, she's able to produce and put on the stage. And the act of going through that emotionally is so distressing, especially when she's becoming the character that she becomes in that play in particular, that it looks to other people like a mental breakdown despite it just being her absorbing and becoming the role. Completely similar to Drive My Car. Yes, exactly.

[B]

The way Chekhov invades.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yusuke's like heart and mind in his productions and why he can't act anymore.

[A]

Right. I just. I just think that this movie is like a meditation on grief, but also simultaneously a meditation on, like, how we communicate with one another through art and why art is important. For that is basically like, again, like, Drive My Car perfectly executed. Again, it's about a lot of the same things, but is tackling it from a different direction and a different vantage point and I think is extremely, extremely successful at it. I think realistically, if I had seen this movie when it came out and rewatched it again before doing this, it would probably be number one for me if I was to guess I really

[B]

wanted to get in a rewatch too, but I didn't have the time.

[A]

Yeah. But, like, Drive My Car is one that I think I'm going to go back to every couple of years. This and my Number one are both movies that I like, I just kind of, like, live for. It's like I. This is all. It's all I want movies to be is Sentimental Value and what I have at number one.

[B]

The thing I've been saying about sentimental value versus worst person in the world is I think worst person in the world, to me at least, is like a better, like, movie. Like, I'm putting in a bare quotes, but objectively.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Sentimental Value is a more perfect movie, like, for me. Like, I prefer it just because kind of fits that puzzle piece in the back of my head a little more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are things portrayed in Sentimental Value that I don't think I've ever seen in a movie. Like the way a father can be so, so scathing and, like, aggressive and pedantic with, like, little tiny comments. Yeah, yeah. The bit.

[A]

The bit where he's, like, trying his best to not say, I don't like going to the theater.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then ends up basically saying it anyway in as many words is, like, crushing.

[B]

Yeah. Or the bit where he's telling Renata Renfrey's character that she's living her life wrong.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all the comments he makes around that and the whole, like, oh, now I'm the bad guy. Like, I've. I've lived.

[A]

Oh, now I'm a bad guy. Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It sucks. And it's captured so well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So like it. A lot of the crux of the movie is when Agnes is. No, not. Is it Agnes main character's name or is that Agnes is also in. Sorry, Baby.

[A]

So I don't remember.

[B]

But Renato Vente's character finally Reads the script and realizes that Nora.

[A]

Nora, sorry, Agnes is her sister.

[B]

Nora finally reads the script and realizes that it was like he was there for all the experiences she had. Even though they weren't talking.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And man, stuff like that. Like, how did. How did he know? How do parents know? How do you still relate even when you're not speaking? And it feels like this kind of sixth sense empathy that people somehow possess even though on the surface they are being shitheads. Yeah.

[A]

There's another one where you should prepare for every single person who appears in it or worked behind the scenes to get nominated for an Oscar. Oh, yeah, there's also.

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[A]

I wouldn't be surprised if Skarsgard won for this.

[B]

Like, walks away with it.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

It is, I think, his best performance I've ever seen.

[A]

Yeah. If he gets nominated for supporting actor, it's going to be between him and Sean Penn, I think. Oh, yeah.

[B]

If I was to guess that scene where he gives the. His grandson look.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

The Blu Rays of the piano teacher.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Unreal.

[B]

It's really funny because in Renata Renspei's Criterion Closet video, she picked the piano teacher. And I'm curious if. Like that.

[A]

Oh, really? Yeah. That's funny.

[B]

That's related. Yeah. That movie really fucking good.

[A]

It's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're at number ones.

[B]

We're at number ones.

[A]

Album of the year.

[B]

Will you ready?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My album of the year, after much deliberation and a few tears here and there is bad Bunnies. Debitira mas photos.

[A]

Yeah. They're so good. Yeah, it's. It's.

[B]

I mean, like, musically, to me it is a perfect record.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a sonic adventure. It's just so much. It's one of those records that does homage perfectly and respectfully and with like, with love and not exploitation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I guess it's a little hard to exploitate. Exploit your own culture, but some people manage to do it. He doesn't. He loves Puerto Rico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He loves it so much that he did a three month residency there that I believe every single date sold out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Our friend Andrea went to it and sent me videos and it looks like the. The best thing on planet Earth.

[A]

The videos were amazing.

[B]

I went to PR earlier this year for the first time since I was a kid. Yeah. And a lot of the time. A lot of the time I spent there, I was listening to that record that had just come out a month before and walking around San Juan just like walking the entire City front to back. Because I had not. I didn't know. I don't have any family in San Juan. I didn't, like, know any of the things to do, so I just walked and I listened to that record. And I thought a lot about how I have struggled to feel like a Puerto Rican because I didn't grow up speaking Spanish. And I've ended up pretty, like, divorced from my culture just by the nature of my parents, more often than not desiring for us to assimilate rather than, like, maintaining any sort of presence of our Puerto Rican or Dominican culture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even before this record, Bad Bunny, since I first heard por Siempre in 2018 or 19, has been really important for me to feel like I'm connected to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've learned a little more Spanish just by listening to his music. It doesn't always hit. Not all his albums are it like that. But I. Un Vera no Sinti really hit for me too. I spent a lot of time driving around listening to that one. But this was the first time since hearing Bad Bunny that I'd been back to pr. And the first thing that happened when we landed and got in our rental car was we turned on the radio and the song DTMF was playing. And it was hard to not burst into tears, like, at that exact moment. I just remember, like, putting my head on the window and then rolling it down and hearing, like, cookie whistling while we were driving around to the western side of the island. And it. Listening to this record makes me. It makes me feel Puerto Rican. And it feels a little corny, but it. There are a lot of things that I've experienced this year that have kind of lent reason to why I don't feel that way. And some of them are within my control. Like, I could go find a Spanish tutor. I could learn Spanish if I wanted to. I could look up the recipes. And I have been. I made Tostones for the first time in a long time this past weekend.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

They were really good.

[A]

Were they good?

[B]

It's really easy. I should do it more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But there are reasons that are not my fault. Like the fact that there was a nationwide push in Puerto Rico to get people off of the island to allow room for industrialization. And there was a mass sterilization campaign on the island, which means less Puerto Rican babies were being born in the mid 20th century. So the population is dwindling. And there's an American effort to, I don't know, extract and curb as much of its function as possible, which continually Evolves and evolves insidiously as time goes on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was sitting in a 787 coffee, which we have a few of those here in the city, but I was in a 787. I don't know, their, like their practices, their background, and I've been a little scared to look it up, but they do make a really good coquito latte. So, you know, maybe I'll continue to not Google them. If you, if you want to reach out to me and say, hey, actually they're awful, go ahead, but I'm going to keep this a mystery for my own sanity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was sitting in a 787 NPR and these two white dudes walked in and they started talking about their hundred acres, small scale hospitality projects that they were planning in pr. Each of them had one of their own.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think about that all the time and how people are so blind to their own, because these people probably have like no human as illegal signs on their lawns back home.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I was thinking about how that insidious, capitalistic, exploitative bullshit is completely lost on them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like they don't understand the harm they're doing in forcing out someone's abuela so they can build an Airbnb or a Verbo. And that kind of that rage is present on the record, too. There's a song called Lo Que Paso Hawaii, which is about how Benito's doesn't want what happened to Hawaii, what the US did to Hawaii, how the culture was eradicated and it became a hub for, I don't know, whatever Hawaii is. For now, according to the us

[A]

Tourism first and foremost.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he doesn't want that to happen to Puerto Rico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it sometimes feels like we only have a tiny bit of power in regards to shifting it back and giving the people their land back and not being subject to things like the Jones act or the constant presence of exploitative capitalism and wealth on the island. And the record turns toward love and celebration and family and history, and it's its culture, both here and across the diaspora, like especially in New York. The opener is called Nueva. And the music video, which is one of the few music videos I watched this year, is about a wedding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That takes place in the South Bronx, I believe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's really beautiful. And I've been to celebrations like that and they are very beautiful. And just because we're across the diaspora doesn't mean that we're not who we are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. They beat the armas photos by Bad Bunny. My record of the year.

[A]

Also one of the best pieces of album art of the year.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's two white lawn chairs in front of a bunch of palm trees and notably empty.

[A]

One of them is knocked over or one of them is not knocked over. I forget.

[B]

Let me see. I've been listening to it a lot in the past few weeks as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nope. They're both standing.

[A]

They both are different.

[B]

They're different longchairs.

[A]

Yeah. But it's.

[B]

It's a really good album cover.

[A]

Really great album art. Yeah, it's a great album.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Thank you for sharing all that.

[B]

Anytime.

[A]

Bill. My number one album of the year, I am floored by. It's Getting Killed by Geese. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. I. Man, I couldn't believe how much this went from 0 to 60 in terms of how it connected with me. You mentioned this when you were talking about it a little bit. But the way I've always phrased it, because it's a way that my music has been described by other people, is this like a somber optimism, in a way. There's this like, undercurrent of like apathetic kind of sadness with this over overarching twinge of like, things can be better and things will be better. That is very, very, very much present on this album and also on Cameron Winter's album Heavy Metal, which I heard both of them for the first time this year. Heavy Metal came out end of December last year, so I've actually seen a lot of people counting it for this year. Yeah, I decided not to. I do think Love Takes Miles is like an all timer song. Like that's one that people will just be talking about literally forever and be pointing back at. But Getting Killed by Geese opens with There's a Bomb in My Car over and over and over and over again, which is like a really, truly horrifying opening and then basically leads into like almost a Beatles song with. With Cobra. That is this like. It's a dichotomy that's so in your face. You start to need to ask questions about why, you know, and that's. I think the thing that really struck me immediately when I first started listening to it was like, how is this like when I was listening to that opening track, Is that Trinidad? I think it's Trinidad. I was like, how is it possible that this is the album that everybody's talking about? You know, it was my first time listening to them. How. How is it possible that this is the album when I was listening to Trinidad and then Cobra happened, and I was like, what the fuck is this? And then, as it kept going on, almost nothing that happens in Trinidad really shows its face again for the rest of the runtime. Which only makes it more interesting that Trinidad is there at the beginning. Like it is. It is there specifically to turn you away or, on the flip side, invite you in. Because if you can connect to what's happening in that song at all, if that rage and that fear connects with you, then everything else on the album is really going to connect with you. And I remember I was listening through it because I hadn't heard any of it at all until I sat down and listened to it all the way through for the first time. And a lot of the songs connected with me. It wasn't until Taxes happened that I was like, this is one of the best albums I've heard my whole life. Because Taxes, if you haven't heard it, it's a song that just, like, kind of starts with a drumbeat. And it's Cameron saying, I should burn in hell over and over again and kicks in with this, like, really euphoric big moment that lyrically, he says, if you want me to pay my taxes, you'll have to come over with the crucifix. You'll have to nail me down. Which, great writing by itself. But the final lines of that song are. And I will break my own heart. I'll break my own heart from now on is like. It's one of those lines that, when I heard it, I was, like, so mad that I hadn't written it, you know, Which I feel like is, to me. And I imagine you feel this also record. Yeah. If you. If you're a person who makes things, like, every once in a while you get this, like, creative envy when you hear something like that. And, like, that's one of those lines that, when you hear it is like, how has this not existed in the public consciousness for thousands of years already? It's like, one of those, like, obvious things that when you hear it, you're like, the only way to do that is to be, like, a creative genius, basically. And that's how I feel listening to this album. It make it. You said this earlier about a different album. This is the kind of thing that when I hear it, it, like, really makes me want to make stuff, you know, I find it creatively energizing to listen to this album. And honestly, for the past, like, couple weeks, like, every day I've listened to this album all the way through Then sometimes also heavy metal. Like, I'll just listen to both of them, but at the very least, I'll listen to taxes, like, multiple times a day. Because something about that song in particular is like a Winter Soldier activation in my brain that just makes me want to make things. I find that, generally speaking, Cameron Winter, I think, is connecting with people. If I were to guess, because his voice is one that is, I mean, literal singing voice is one that is, like, very easy to kind of make fun of. Like, when you think about, like, the best singers, quote unquote, or like the most, I don't know, culturally relevant singers to this day, no matter who they are and when they lived, they're all kind of voices that, like, you can caricature very easily. You know, the Bob Dylan's of the world, the Elvises of the world, whatever. Cameron Winter has spent years, like, developing one of those voices for himself in a way that is, like, new and fresh and interesting to listen to. But he's also, like, very good at singing, which is interesting, and he's a very good musician. And I think learning more about the story of, like, where this album came from, where this band came from, all the stuff that we talked about before, where it's like, yeah, I mean, for the most part, you know, they all went to, like, a very affluent high school. They're all like. They seem to come from, like, pretty wealthy backgrounds. They kind of been set up to succeed, and yet they put the work in anyway and they, like, made something because they really believe in music and art and want it to stand the test of time is like, I think, very interesting. But at the core of it, like, the album itself feels to me like our, like, Born to Run kind of like success. Like, it feel. It feels like it speaks so much to the moment. And that's why when this album came out, I think, like, the generation right below ours connected with it so heavily because it's like their moment where a band, like, gets them and gets what it's like to live. Exactly. Right now.

[B]

Right smack in the middle of the decade, too.

[A]

Yes. And you, you wrote a great piece about this album and you shouted out the album art, which is, you know, somebody. It's a shot from below, somebody in the sun. It's like blinding the camera, playing the trumpet and also pointing a revolver directly at, like, you. Essentially.

[B]

It's my album cover of the year.

[A]

It's amazing. It's amazing. And that's what it feels like to listen to getting killed. It. It feels like this really, like, Euphoric acknowledgement that being alive fucking rocks while simultaneously begging for death because you can't exist for five minutes without hearing something horrible. It encapsulates this moment perfectly. And then simultaneously is, like, just incredibly well written, great music that energizes me and makes me want to go out and make more stuff, which doesn't happen to me very often these days, if I'm being honest. Like, less and less frequently do I hear something where I'm like, this is very. This feels very new and very fresh and, like, the kind of thing that I would, like, bend over backwards to have made or, you know, be in proximity to. And speaking of music videos, taxes. One of the best music videos I've ever seen in my life. Unreal. We'll watch it.

[B]

Watch it right after this.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

We were talking a little bit about Sofia Coppola right before this.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Another person who came from, like, vast wealth and connection, but didn't really, like, compromise.

[A]

Daughter of Steven Spielberg.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the one. Steven Spielberg directed the Godfather, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But didn't rest on that and still made.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, the best work she possibly could. And still, like, I think of the story of how she got Bill Murray for Lost in Translation and how much she struggled to actually get him to be on set.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that. I don't know. Not to be in defense of Nepo babies or anything.

[A]

Or Bill Murray. Yeah.

[B]

Or. Or. But what you make with that matters and can go stretch beyond the privilege you were afforded into being something really powerful and necessary.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I just. I think you feel this way, too. But this is the kind of album where I listen to it, and I'm like, I really hope that anything I ever make and connect with people on the level that this album does with me, you know, that's, like, always kind of been the driving force between everything that I do, no matter what it is, is, like, how do I excise these emotions that I feel within me and just, like, put them on a plate for other people to maybe feel or relate to? Which is why sentimental value hit so hard for me also. Again, I don't want to spoil how it ends, but, like, that's very much what that moment is. And it's also how Hamnet ends, which is why that movie connected with me so much as well. But getting Killed feels like it really encapsulates that. Yeah. Great album.

[B]

Really great album.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My number 10. Your number one.

[A]

Yeah. Feels like an immediate old timer to me. Number one movies Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[B]

My number one movie is. I tried to think of a really bad movie to say now, but I couldn't think of any. You got one in the canon?

[A]

Yeah. Ice Cubes, War the Worlds.

[B]

I did not watch that. I don't know why people did.

[A]

I watched it. It's the worst movie I saw this year. At the bottom of the list, in case you're wondering. What's your number one?

[B]

My number one movie of the year is the Park Chan Wook film, no Other Choice, which Brendan still hasn't seen.

[A]

Killing Me. That I haven't seen it because it

[B]

just came out widely on Christmas.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But it. Em. And I got to see it on December 8th at the AMC in Times Square just because I was really on top of the early releases. I didn't think anything was gonna top Sinners this year. Yeah. I love that movie so much and had such a profound impact on me. And maybe there's a chance that I emotionally resonated with Sinners more than I did with no Other Choice, but no Other Choice is a perfect movie. It's. I. It's in some ways kind of sucks that it's my number one, because I can't. I struggle to even put words together as to what this movie does to make it perfect. Like, it's. It. It's like falling apart like sand through my fingers trying to describe why every single moment in it hits me like a truck. There's no. There's no real big emotional catharsis or payoff. There's no, like, oh, I've been through. What this person is going through and where they ended up is really important for me to see. It's a. It's. It's a little nihilistic. It's. It's very dark. It's like a dark comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a lot of really funny moments in it and a lot of really brutal, disgusting moments in it. And all that humor and all of that nastiness and all of that. The terror of living in this hellscape that we currently live in are captured with some of the best sounds I've ever heard. Everything, like, hits your ears exactly perfectly to make you feel satisfied or disgusted or you're along for the ride via these sounds in such a way that it feels like you're inside of the main character's head and you're watching him make all these choices.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That.

[A]

Well, he doesn't have any other choices.

[B]

He doesn't have any other. They. They sure do say that. A lot. Famously, they say the words, I have no other choice or There wasn't another choice constantly.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Perfect. In any other movie would be really silly. But it makes so much sense here. There was no other choice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's something about watching a character be in a situation outside, entirely outside of their control and without their consent and being thrust into something and then getting out of that via all the most wrong possible means learning all the wrong lessons from what happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because by. By being put in an extremely desperate situation, their true nature is revealed. There's a lot of Breaking Bad in this movie. Like via the character of Walter. There's a little bit of the Shining in this movie. It's so. The way they depict certain things. I really don't want to spoil this movie for you at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I appreciate it because I need you to know what I'm talking about without. But I need you to see it for yourself. They depict certain things so grossly, so viscerally.

[A]

They

[B]

every. I. I care about all of the characters in the movie, which is a little uncommon considering the nature of the way they're interacting with each other. Yeah. Like, it's not.

[A]

The.

[B]

The amount of empathy they have me feel for certain people is troubling. And the ending is exactly what you'd expect, which is

[A]

good and bad an equal measure.

[B]

Yeah. I. I hope we get to see this movie together. I would like to watch it again. It's. It's my movie of the year. Like there's. There. There was no other choice. And it's really interesting because I did not much care for Oldboy. I watched it and I was like this.

[A]

It didn't work for me. Yeah.

[B]

Not to say it's like a bad movie or anything, but it didn't resonate with me really at all. And like, the action in it was really good, but there wasn't enough of it to make it feel like a campy, pulpy action movie that I wanted.

[A]

Yeah. I think Park Chan Wook has gotten better as a director as time has gone on.

[B]

Oh yeah. Because decision to leave has been like, nipping at the back of my head since I watched Dog earlier this year.

[A]

Unreal how good that movie is.

[B]

I still haven't seen the Handmaiden and I have to watch that.

[A]

You have to watch the Handmaiden.

[B]

But yeah. No other choice in my opinion. Perfect movie and highly recommend. And you should watch it. And I don't want to say anything else.

[A]

I can't wait to see it. I'm so excited. Yeah. I remember seeing a trailer for it like six months ago and just being like, watch list. Very excited. We'll keep an eye out for when it comes out.

[B]

Every scene in that trailer is like 15 times better in the movie.

[A]

Great. My number one, probably unsurprisingly at this point, is Sinners. Sinners is, as I was mentioning before, sentimental value. Just like everything I want when I see a movie. You touched on most of what I was going to circle around with this thing. So I'll just say because we didn't talk about this part in particular, just visually stunning. I mean, what they were able to do from a cinematography perspective is unreal. I don't know how many people know this, but like I went to film school initially to be a cinematographer.

[B]

It was like I didn't know the cinematographer part.

[A]

Yeah, I spent a lot of time when I was in high school. That was when I got into photography, was in high school. And it was also like kind of when YouTube and vlogging was on the rise and I got myself like a little video camera and I started to make vlogs. But every once in a while I would make these, like really what I thought at the time were like kind of artsy cinematography reels that like didn't really have, you know, too much of a semblance of story or whatever. It was just kind of like shots from around certain days that I thought were really pretty. And that was, that was my. That was my portfolio when I applied to a lot of art schools is like my photography for my photography classes and my film work and stuff. And then also these videos that I was posting on YouTube. And anyway, I just. I have always had a very strong connection to cinematography and color grading and all this kind of stuff. And Sinners is like ridiculous on that front. It's like real every frame of painting kind of shit in that thing. But even outside of that, I just think there's so much power specifically in the way genre films have been almost like co opted by the greatest artists living alive in some ways to like make really interesting points in venues that would not normally be considered for this kind of thing. Like when you. I don't. It's not a spoiler. Say this is a vampire movie at this point because again, everybody has seen it. But like when you hear like, oh, it's a vampire movie and Michael B. Jordan plays two of himself and et cetera, et cetera, I don't think you go in expecting to feel as much as you do while you're watching it in the same way. Like, I don't know. I think one of the other best movies I've ever seen in my life is. Nope. Like Jordan Peele's Nope, you know, alien abduction movie that is, like, asking big questions about, like, religion. Also really interesting. Really interesting movie. And that's always what genre has kind of been for, right. Like, sci fi and fantasy and horror have always been kind of reflections of what we're going through as people. And they've been ways of exploring things that are, you know, a little bit hard to tackle head on, but through abstraction is maybe easier to see. But Sinners tackles so much. And then also on its surface is just like a thrilling, extremely fun movie to watch. Like, it is. It is just riveting to watch Michael B. Jordan play Smoke and Stack. Like, unbelievable how fun they are on screen. Or he is as both of those people on screen.

[B]

Feels like two different people.

[A]

Does feel like two different people.

[B]

I've heard tell that some people did not realize that they were the same person.

[A]

That rocks. Which is awesome.

[B]

Imagine having that experience.

[A]

I think also in some ways this is gonna sound very silly, but, like, one of the most important parts of this movie to me, in some ways, is seeing Ryan Coogler escape from Marvel. He is. People know this. I worked at Marvel for a long time, almost a decade I was at Marvel or at Disney, and I was working on Marvel stuff the whole time. And he is one of the only true directors to have helmed the Marvel movie while I was there. And what I mean by that, I don't mean that to disparage the other people who have made Marvel movies, but what I mean very specifically is, like, he is one of the only people who, like, didn't walk away from the movie when the studio started meddling, which they always do. And more specifically, he's one of the only people who really put his foot down and was like, I'm making a movie the way I want to make it. You are not going to tell me how I'm going to be making. Specifically, Wakanda Forever was the one that I was really around and in the marketing cycle for. Everything we did from a marketing perspective for that movie had to be run through Ryan Coogler's team, which, like, doesn't happen. Like, does not happen at all. I remember there was this one day I woke up to an email where his team had just sent us a podcast that was the Making of Wakanda Forever. That they were like, we just made this whole podcast and you have to publish it. Figure it out. And a lot of the people I worked with were running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they're like, what is this work that just got handed in our laps? And I was like, oh, cool, we get to publish something good. Isn't that exciting? Like, isn't that really great? I've just like, I've never met the guy, I've never exchanged an email with him, etc. But like being in semi proximity to his work, I've always been so excited about what came next from him when he was done with. And I don't think he is done with Black Panther.

[B]

I think he's, I think he's making a third one.

[A]

He said, yeah, I think he, he said he's making a third one. Then also Denzel Washington also like was like, yeah, I got cast in the third Black Panther movie, which is interesting. I think. I think that was Denzel Washington who said that somebody let it slip in an interview that they got cast in Black Panther 3. I don't know anything about it to be clear. I actually didn't hear anything about Black Panther 3. But point being, he's going to go back to it. But like, I'm so glad that someone of his caliber as a director and as a creative has managed to walk away from the Marvel industrial complex and made something like, as powerful and earth shattering and I think like industry shaking as, as sinners is. It just doesn't happen like ever. You know, I think there are a lot of people who look at the current state of media as it exists right now and look at like film and Hollywood and stuff and they're like, it's only Marvel movies. And like that's bullshit. That's not true. I mean we, you and I just talked about 10 movies each. You had Superman in yours. But like for the, for the most part.

[B]

No, no, no. Marvel.

[A]

I think not Marvel though. Yeah, but technically 10 movies, you know, 19 movies that are not superhero movies, right? That are all great and were made by great artists working at the top of their caliber. Whatever, whatever. This is happening all the time. But I think specifically for Ryan Coogler to walk away from making Wakanda forever and for his next project to be like a big genre piece that is a blockbuster, like Steven Spielberg in his prime era blockbuster that brings this many people out and also becomes a classic the way like Jaws did. Fucking rocks. Like it's like that. That does not happen often. You know, people are making great movies all the time. But what Sinners is, is like Not a thing that happens very frequently. So when I get to sit in a theater and I get to have this moment of like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm witnessing this for the first time right now. You know, the kind of movie that people will, like, ask what it was like to see in theaters in 10 years. That is so fun. You know, I felt that way when I was watching Dune. I felt that way, like, in theaters when I was watching Lord of the Rings as a kid. That's how I felt watching Sinners, which is sick. And I kind of hope they never make another one. I don't want any sequels or prequels or spin offs or anything.

[B]

I don't need more of that world. I think it's. I think it's a perfect little gift.

[A]

I agree. Great, great little Cube.

[B]

I would love to see what Miles Catton and Haley Steinfeld and all them get up to next.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And 1. Mi Mosaku is like, she's so good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love her and everything. Have you seen his house? Not to like.

[A]

No, I haven't seen his house.

[B]

She's really excellent in that too. Just. Yeah. Sinners. Incredible.

[A]

Good movie.

[B]

Immaculate.

[A]

Great movie. Even one of that and Sentimental Value are the only movies I gave five stars to this year.

[B]

I'm a little generous with my five stars.

[A]

I'm becoming less generous of my five stars. I was actually looking back at this recently. Yesterday when I was thinking about recording this later, I was like, let me look back at, like the other movies I've given five stars to over the past couple years. And every year I've given them out less and less and less.

[B]

I think I might maybe 20, 26. I get a little stingy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I get a little, you know, take a half star off here and there for minor gripes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Usually my thing is if I had. No, if I like watched the whole movie and there was nothing that really glared out to me as, like, horrible. And I. I really liked it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Probably give it five stars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, the rest is whatever.

[A]

The rest is history. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

We did it.

[A]

We did it. Those are albums and movies.

[B]

Albums. And what did you think of the alternating thing?

[A]

It was. It was so fun. It was very silly. I hope you liked it, dear Listener. I hope it wasn't too disorienting. Yeah. But I thought it was fun. I had a good time. Thank you so much for being here.

[B]

Anytime.

[A]

Are you as hungry as I am?

[B]

I am very hungry.

[A]

So hungry.

[B]

We thought we were going to be done at 12:30.

[A]

It is 3pm it is 3pm okay, let's. Let's wrap this one up. Well, for real, I know you famously said that you'd never start a podcast, but you sure do love guesting on them. So thank you for being here. Where can people find you online?

[B]

I have a blog and website called Ghost Down Online. Yes, that's Ghost down as in below. And I also have a newsletter that I believe you can find at that website.

[A]

Great.

[B]

That comes out every other Tuesday.

[A]

Love that. You can also find Will and Film General in the Discord.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Thank you so much everybody for listening to this. If you made it all the way to the end, if you want to, you can back the show on Patreons patreon.com wavelengths thank you so much, everybody who is doing that and making this a possibility. I hope you enjoyed this bonus OD episode and I'll catch you all in. Either this will come out in the new year or I'll catch you in the new year, everybody. Bye, bye, bye. Sa.