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We Fixed It, You're Welcome
Can Target Hit the Bullseye Again?
01:01:03
Target is dropping prices on more than 3,000 items to win back shoppers. But can price cuts alone win back customer trust and brand loyalty? In this episode, our panel analyzes Target’s plan to address declining foot traffic, shrinking sales, and boycotts. We explore whether these price discounts are a short term marketing tactic or part of a deeper brand reset, and whether we think they will work. From customer sentiment to operations complexity and employee impact, this conversation breaks down what Target can do to hold onto relevance in a crowded retail landscape, and to win back customers who feel Target is no longer for them. Key TakeawaysDiscounts increase traffic temporarily but do not rebuild loyalty aloneTarget risks losing differentiation if it competes purely on priceBrand trust requires transparency and consistencyEmployees and customers both need clarity on the company’s directionA strong narrative must support any pricing strategy Our PanelAaron Wolpoff – Hos...
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- [00:01]
Mark McCray
You know what's missing? Real talk about what Black men go through mentally and emotionally. Man Listen Mental Health conversations for Men of Color we're diving into the real stuff. The pressure, the struggles, the healing. No filters, just brothers sharing their truth about navigating life and finding purpose. Whether you're living it, supporting someone who is, or just want to understand, this is for you. I'm Mark McCray and I'm ready to have these conversations. Find us by searching. Man Listen Mental wherever you get your
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Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [01:00]
Aaron
You're welcome, the show where we take over companies. You come along for the ride and we try to put them back better than we found them. If you're a giant retailer and your sales are flat and the narrative around you isn't what it used to be, what do you do? You cut prices, you put money back in people's pockets, get that foot traffic back up and you stop selling fruit loops, I guess, because that's what everyone wants. Today we're going to talk about what's going on with Target. There's a lot happening for longtime listeners. You'll remember we fixed Target all the way back in season one. We told them what to do, but they must keep having meetings and making decisions without us. So we're going to look at this a little differently and try to fix whether cutting prices, switching up products and just generating publicity and is enough to bring back shoppers, especially those who have expressed dissatisfaction and even anger earned anger at how Target's been showing up for a while.
- [01:58]
ExpressVPN Announcer
Chino, give us the scoop on Target
- [02:00]
Aaron
and bring us up to speed.
- [02:02]
Chino
All right, so as Aaron just shared, we're talking about Target today, which is your favorite place to go in for toothpaste and then come up with an entirely new wardrobe, maybe a candle or a couple couple throw pillows and you don't even realize what's happening. But they've just announced price cuts on more than 3,000 items, everything from baby essentials to pantry staples and everything else in between. And as shoppers continue to feel the pinch with rivals like Walmart and Costco and Amazon as it eats away at their market share. These cuts are real, and they have about 5 to 25% off across the board on these items that they're rolling into spring as part of a really big push under new leadership to get more people back into the door. But there's another price on the table that doesn't exactly show up on the shelf, and that's the cost of broken trust, which is what we want to explore a little bit more today. As Erin shared, over the last couple of years, Target has quietly scaled back its diversity, equity and inclusion commitments. They pulled back on Pride merchandise. And after a lot of backlash, there has been some boycotts around Target. So some boycott leaders are saying it's over. Others are saying, you know, they haven't really changed or fixed what they've broken. So today we're asking, you know, there's a few dollars, you know, saved, actually walk back and change how we feel about them moving forward, or did they fix the kind of promises that they've broken? And so does these price cuts and discounts make up for it? And so we'd love to turn to you two because as the resident Canadian, we no longer have Target for reasons we shared in season one. But you both are on the ground. You will shop at Target. So I'd love to get your perspective on this.
- [04:11]
Melissa
Well, I will say I used to be a very loyal Target shopper. And after the whole fiasco with them stopping their DEI initiatives, I have been not shopping at Target, and I haven't shopped there since that whole thing has happened. And I think what's amazing about that for me personally is I was a Target red card loyalist, right? I went to Target all the time. I followed the social media accounts of when you go to Target for shampoo and you come up out with $500 worth of stuff. So I've always loved Target. I've always said that if I. If there was only one store in the whole world, what would it be? For me, it would be Target at that time. Now, I haven't even. I haven't stepped foot in Target for over a year, which is, to me, very crazy. They sent me a notice, said, your credit card is going to be shut down for inactivity. And I said, fine, shut down. And so that's my stance, really. I took a hard stance there. And then over time, I was able to find other places that I could shop that I could get things and save a lot of money, too, because I wasn't buying frivolous Things that I didn't need. But I think more importantly, Chino, you've kind of brought up their new initiative around cutting prices on 3000 on trend spraying items across their entire inventory of goods. These cuts sit on top of thousands of items already reduced in 2025. And they're really focused on trying to get into more of the value proposition space. Their full year net sales were down by 1.7%. So that's almost $100 billion. And it's really driven by, you know, a 2.6% drop in comparable sales. Even as their gross margin might have improved, their operating margin reached 4.8. So all of this commentary really talks about earnings outperformance has come from margin expansion, expansion. So less shrink, lower supply chain costs, more ads, membership revenue. But their store traffic transactions have been really under pressure since these initiatives have started. So I do think we have to talk about them hand in hand. But I also think that what they're trying to do is really kind of appeal to the masses today, consumers today who are feeling the pressures economically. And the thing about Target is it's always kind of focused on curation and being like the cool place to shop. Not on the most cost effective to be honest. And with their partnerships with like Joanna Gaines and all the designers that are doing like these pop ups for fashion and things like that, they really weren't focused on like I would say like keeping it cost efficient, so to speak, at prices down low. Where I think that that's the place where if they're going into that space, they need to understand that their competitors like Walmart don't even have to really do anything because that's what they're already known for and what they've been doing all along. So these like $3,000, it feels a little bit like they're trying to not pull a fast one on us, but pull it go into this space. When who are you really going to be Target? Like that's what I'd like to know. Like who are you going to be when you, you know, when it comes down to it, you know, because Walmart really has always been doing that. They're constantly doing this rollback campaign and you see the prices going back and forth. They do basket price studies across for consumers and I know a lot of consumers look at that and they'll say similar, you know, all these same brand type items across the United States. What does a basket cost at Walmart? What does it cost at, you know, Publix? What does it cost at Target? And you're looking at all of those across the board. Walmart is kind of the mental default of cheapest cart. So strategically they're using their own scale, their reputation, their higher margin businesses to play offense on pricing, where it feels a little bit like Target might be playing defense or trying to kind of hit something because they think it's going to get them what they need to in terms of those margin differences. So I think that that's a lot of speaking here and it's not giving a lot of answers in terms of what they should be doing. But I think that when you think about all of those things, there's so many components and Sheena, so you've kind of opened up the Pandora's box for Target. So I think besides talking about the DEI initiative, we really need to talk about like what are they trying to achieve by this? Because are they trying to become a more affordable place to shop versus a curated experiences that they've provided in the past?
- [09:34]
Aaron
You're right, Melissa. Typically, you know, a move, a bold move like that, we're slashing prices on 3,000 items that would be, well, number one, celebrated by consumers.
- [09:45]
Melissa
Right.
- [09:45]
Aaron
And number two, hello, marketing, that would cause an escalated price wars, you know, campaign, and you'd see it rip a ripple effect across retail, which we might see. But like you're saying, Melissa, Walmart and there's other Costco and other solutions that consumers have trained themselves into in the interim, especially those that have had a beef with Target for any number of the reasons that we've mentioned and said you're not for me and you've shown me you're not for me, you've publicly said you're not for me anymore, I'm going to go somewhere else. You're not alone in that. We've, we've seen that ripple effect happen. So the fact that they've said, okay, well now we're going to cut some prices, you know, we're not seeing that celebration that you'd expect to see from a move like that. And some leaders are saying, well, okay, that's a good move, the boycott. We'll back down on the boycott. It's over. And some are saying, wait a second, what's just, what's happening, you know, is this smoke, smoke and mirrors. What are you trying to do here? And we're in the middle of this.
- [10:47]
Melissa
Yeah, I think that also operationally, I think, you know, we've talked about when you have a change like this price change, for example, if you haven't really thought out the strategy of how you're going to make it deliver on that promise. So I'm cutting prices on 3,000 items. You know, there's a lot of work that needs to be done, right? You, if you're cutting prices, you've got to re tag things. You have to change the shelf tags and how it's being promoted on. Hopefully there's a story around what's being, you know, discounted. If you're, you know, going across 3,000 seems like just a lot, to be honest. The app needs to be changed. The point of sale systems need to have all the updates in it. You know, one of the things I used to love about Target is going and scanning the barcode yourself so you could see the price, you know, in store. And so if those are mismatched, that's going to be a problem and it's going to feel gimmicky, it's going to feel not authentic. Like we really care about the prices. Like I said, I used to follow a lot of different Target accounts and there was one where people would go in and they would show, like, and this is pre DEI backlash was Target had problems getting the prices right. So you'd have like four pairs of jeans, all the same, same brand, and one would be discounted, the other one would be discounted differently and then another one would have full price on it and then the shelf would say something else. So what is the price? Right, like, of course you're going to take the one that's the cheapest, hopefully to the front. But like, what if it's not your right size? Right, but it's the same jeans across the board. So that, that's the kind of thing that doesn't inherently derive customers loyalty and trust of the whole process. So, you know, again, I wish this would have been more thought out, you know, in terms of the customer and saying, these are the top 3,000 items that are sold in March. So this is where we're going to, you know, so, you know, little leprechauns everywhere, whatever they want to do to make it, like, feel like you're in part of the decision making. Because right now I feel like it doesn't feel like who is making the decisions.
- [13:13]
Aaron
So that's why we need to have these conversations, because I'm grounded in the marketing side of it. Okay, so 3,000 SKUs discounted, that's a marketing play. Let's see, figure out how to bring the audience back, you know, the consumers back. You're grounded in operations and you're saying, you know, this is going to be an operational nightmare and it's going to impact the customer experience and you know, they're trying to do something to win back. And if customers leave with in the, there's complexity to it and they have a less than stellar experience, they're just going to say well why did I even try Target again? And then, you know, you're grounded in the people side of the equation. So talk more about that. What's that like? What's all the impact on all sides with the people involved?
- [13:57]
Chino
And I want to talk people in two forms, right? The people who are buying, right, the Melissa's that they've lost the loyalist. And what's interesting too you brought up a really important question Melissa is like this feels very gimmicky. This is great. But you've broken trust with us and really appreciative that we have, you know, this, you know, seeming discount on important items. Right. They can flip that however they want to, but when will that ball drop? Is it okay once we shop enough and then this just goes away? Are you saying forever? This is kind of your standard to help with the market? Like what is the messaging around this? Because as quick as it came it can easily go and that has been Target's problem is they swoop in and say we're going to do something as a brand, whether it's standing on the DEI front, you know, when it comes to, you know, we talked about in another episode having theft monitors and people feeling uncomfortable shopping in different places. Like what are, who is your audience here? And, and, and sticking to that because if you're going to be the value proposition, that's, that's Walmart. We know that. Right. And Walmart has steadily done that. That's how they built their brand. Target unfortunately has become incredibly wish washy. And so I appreciate this discount that can go away tomorrow. And again to your point Melissa, going back to the actual operations side, if this isn't, you know, seamless is this, if I'm not able to scan and the prices aren't consistent across all store and purchase experiences, this is null. It's null and void. And the purpose of this for Target, although they think this is going to bring people back, it's actually going to detract people because it's going to make us feel less trustworthy of yourself. So I think, you know, the first solve for Target is figuring out what they want to be and if this is their new standard, great, let's do more. Let's do more. I don't want to see 3,000. I want you to build a story and let us gain your trust and then have that consistent consistently show up because they've lost trust over time and they need to build that back up. So that's the people side on, you know, the customers. Then there's the people side of everyone that's working there. Right. As you mentioned, a logistical nightmare. Someone's, someone's been working overtime, 60 plus hours. They just to get these SKUs together, you know, everyone that's on an inventory team having to do that. What is your messaging to them? Where again, as employees you're feeling this whiplash. Right. Stores have been targeted, there's been a loss, there's been cuts in hours because there's not as much shopping happening. So the employees have been taking that hit. So what is your message to employees saying, okay, yes, we've had to cut your hours. Job stability is a little bit shaky here, but now we need you to do more. We need you to work triple, double shifts to get this out. We might take this away, but this is a lot of work you're gonna have to put in the front end to help us get to our perceived goal. And I think it's gonna be imperative for Target as a brand and as a company to have their employees rally around this mission. And we can't do that without the brand story. So, Erin, I wanna like pivot to you because we all are all confused. We're all whiplashed. And how would you tell Target to like un. Whiplash us, if that's a real word?
- [17:38]
Aaron
Yeah, well, and from the employee perspective, you know, if consumers are celebrating and we're all high fiving in the streets and say, and saying Target did it, then as an employee you feel that you, you feel that in the atmosphere and you just get behind it and you say, all right, we're, we're going in the right direction where I'm going to work that double shift. I'm, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna sacrifice some of my personal time and, and I, I'm on board with this. You know, you can just, companies that are on, on fire, you can just feel it in the atmosphere. And you feel it from, you know, as a consumer, as an employee, as a bystander, you can just tell that they tapped into something that is, it's, you can't look away from it. And Target didn't do that.
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- [19:17]
Aaron
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- [20:44]
Melissa
And I think as leaders, this is one of the things that I always share with leaders that are up and coming that work with me. Other, you know, and with the C suite is the connection to the mission and the overarching goals. Gino and Erin is so important and understanding how each of these people, the people that are the inventory stalkers overnight, the people that are cashiers, the people working in the pharmacy, the people that are, you know, manning the fitting rooms, you know, how are they adding value to the mission of Target? That's got to be there. And I think Chino and Aaron, that's what's missing right now is like when we say, what's the soul of Target? Like they've had an opportunity where they've had a pretty significant, you know, trust broken situation with the dei, you could see competitors who have leaned in to them breaking that trust. So Costco is a perfect example. Costco said, all you Target people, come on over.
- [21:52]
Aaron
Let's.
- [21:53]
Melissa
We're, we're going to, we may not have all hundred things, but like, trust me, you're going to come in here for milk and leave with a couch. So just, just come on over. And they have really leaned into what they know really mattered to the customers at Target, which was dei, right. So they double downed. And now they're kind of coming out of this economy where there's been a lot of uncertainty and there's been so much stuff going on where people are like, I trust them, I trust that they're going to fight for me. I mean, right now they're fighting to get tariff money, rebates back, you know, all those kinds of things. And so they have kind of a soul. And it feels like Target lost their soul. And I really feel Chino and Aaron that like, I like this idea of the discounting the three. Of course, everybody wants, we all need it during we have inflation fatigue, you know, we all need it. But I would have loved it to be aligned, Aaron, with like a rebrand and remarketing and said, you know, and even something that said, we heard you, we understand this is our position is that we actually kind of were allies to too many things. And so we lost kind of our place in line. Right. And so what we're doing is we're paring it down, but we're definitely focused on bringing you the most diverse, the most, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. And even showcasing that in their stores in the way that their store, you know, like they can't like have Target be the same Target and then discount everything and think that like we're all going to forget what they, what they
- [23:38]
Chino
did to us before, right, yeah.
- [23:41]
Aaron
It wasn't enough or what we've seen so far isn't enough. Right. So they did enough to create a short term stimulus.
- [23:48]
Chino
Right.
- [23:49]
Aaron
Which is going to work for a little while and the stock price will probably go up and people, foot traffic will be up and they'll point to those metrics and say, we, you know, we did something substantial. It's, it's really not, you know, it. If they take something that's $7 and they cut it by, you know, the 15% or whatever, that, okay, that's a, that's a consumer win. They didn't cut it to 250, where you're like, all right, I'm going to sell my Soul over the $7 product now I can get it for 250, fine. You know, my morals will be compromised a little bit and I'm going to shop at Target. You know, people do that. If they shop at Target, name that name the provider of your choice, even if they're not, you know, fully on board with, with everything they stand for. And they say, yeah, but you know, I buy this there because they're the only ones that have it and those types of things. So no, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a deep discount. They didn't rebrand themselves as a friendlier company. They didn't rebrand themselves as an always on discounter. They just kind of put something out there and they can call it a campaign. They could say, oh good, I'm glad you took advantage of that seasonality, the temporary price cuts. Now we're back to Target and slowly prices go up and then they're back to where they were. But they got what they wanted. They got the market signaling, they wanted that. Look, we won back trust, we won back foot traffic. And what I find interesting is they threw in the cereal, the General Mills and we're going to take certain cereals off and you can't have them here anymore. We're phasing those out at the same time, which is really confusing. So we can throw that into the mix too. But I don't know. You know, of course there it's better to be healthier, but I don't know who, who is pushing for that to be simultaneously, you know, intertwined with that, with the messaging that's going out from Target right now.
- [25:43]
Chino
It doesn't make sense at all. And then what's the other part too? We talk about seasonality, about this again, going back to the trust, right? This can just Be a season of, hey, we only want you to inflate the market share, the numbers. And that's what's happening. It would have been more impactful if they came and said, we're keeping the standard for a year, two years, three years, five, because again, we've seen the market go up and down. That's great. We've also had many conversations on the podcast about how many companies will try to inflate and end up at the end of the day, you know, dissolving their business, you know, going all the way back to like Party City Days. I think that's like our second episode. Right. And you know, it might be a case of too little, too late for Target. And so the point of this podcast is to get ahead of it. And I think what they need to recognize is, sure, this might push your numbers for a second, but how do you stay consistent? How do you bring people back when you've lost the Melissa's your loyalist and who have now found different consumer behaviors, found different stores to go to again, Costco being the big one. Right. Where I do think that, yeah, sure, we have a discount for who knows how long. I'm still going to go to Costco because I can get everything else there at a, you know, at a bulk price. Or I will always just stay at Walmart because it's still a little bit cheaper even then. Right. Like Walmart has the power to, you know, market share and say, okay, well that's not really going to do much for you because anyone that's looking for that value add, who's really looking at those numbers, they're still going to go to Walmart because great, what if there's something that's, you know, number 3001 that it's something that I need that's not a part of this. Right. You have not discounted your entire store and said, hey, we're going to do this for the next X amount of time. They can't do that. That's not what they're known for. And so unfortunately for them, this was a miss in terms of a campaign. And I think, Erin, you said it best. We need to look at this as a campaign versus a long term strategy where their long term strategy is needing to figure out what their messaging is and how they can buy back that trust.
- [28:01]
Melissa
Yeah, I think they risk being caught between being that value player, everyday value player, which is what Walmart is. The dollar stores are those kinds of things and that premium luxury elite experience. And so they're going to be stuck in the middle and no longer are they going to be seen as the clear leader in fun design forward partnerships with cool fashion up and coming fashion designers and really kind of keeping it affordable. So that's been lost somewhere in the mix. And I think their leadership is clearly leaning on the financial aspects and the financial levers to get them to profitability. But that is not to your point, Chino. That's not a great long term strategy strategically. They also treated the boycott of Target and as kind of like a PR incident, thinking it would just go away. And I think that's what they're saying today. Oh, it's done. We're done with it. We're done with the boycott. You don't get to tell us when we're done with the boycott. You know, we're not done. We're not done because you haven't done anything to help us. So really I think they've got to make some serious steps both in finding out what is their mission and what do they want to be in the future. Do they care about the people they've lost? Maybe they don't, to be honest, I don't know. But they need to re anchor the brand on a clear guest or consumer who they know and what segment is that and can they recommit publicly. And really I think that's one of the things that we were saying is that it's great that you're going to cut these prices, but those prices relate to me how. Right, so tell the narrative, like control it, like pick the reasons why you pick those 3,000. Be able to like have the insiders who might still be part of the red circle. I'm not anymore. But you know, would say like I get this from Kroger's. You bought these five things in the last month. These four things are on, have coupon digital coupons and you would save you know, $20. Right. So that's kind of the kind of thing that like they should look at, you know, what have consumers been buying and design those price cuts around a member centric experiences in my opinion and then try to like slowly pull in all of those people that have left and think about why they left as well as what made Target special. Right. Because I think that they're getting caught in like, like do you see what I'm saying by saying they're kind of getting caught in the middle space?
- [30:47]
Chino
Absolutely. This is what happened in Canada, right? They tried to come in Canada. They were this middle ground. We did not know, we did have had no introduction. We we knew the red circle from the commercials, watching anything in the US Right? But we as Canadians did not understand their brand and they came and failed. Within a year, they packed up and left Canada. And so again, I see the same trajectory because now they're in this weird middle space to the US Is where they started. This is what they know. And so to lose this now, if they don't get ahead of it, I think they're in for trouble. But you actually had me think of an incredible idea, Melissa, because, you know, again, with this whole pr, you know, boycotts are over. Trying to dictate that to the people who are boycotting doesn't work. And I think what a better campaign would have been for them. It's something that they can do. Again, Target, if you're listening, this is a really great idea. Reach out to those people and sit down and maybe have a focus group, maybe have an ad talking to those people and saying, what do you need a discount on? Life is expensive, Inflation is hard. We made a mistake. Here's the. I'm sorry, why don't you pick the 3000 again? Of course you can go through the data, right, and you can figure out what people are, you know, what makes sense in the margins. But that's not a story. You know, I think having a better story about how you're communicating to the people you've lost is more important. How do you build like that trust and say, listen, we, we never discount X product. We know that it's one of the things. But if everyone has voted, maybe you have it as like open votes. Everyone download the app and you vote and, you know, at the end of the month, we pick the 3000 based on what you're voting. Again, trying to rebuild that trust. If they can't do that, it doesn't matter what their brand kind of positioning is because we don't believe what you have to say. And I think that will be the first step into helping them. And again, they need to do it in tandem. But you can't do one without the other when it comes to rebuilding a brand, but also rebuilding that trust. So that's kind of, I think, one of my ideas on how to solve that.
- [33:04]
Aaron
Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, and while they're doing that, you know, instead of saying we're going to ban certain products, including products you like, you know, we haven't checked with you, just make sure that you're on board with this. They can be also, you know, while they're focus grouping, which I love, they could be saying, look in their brand campaign or in their messaging campaign and all they're, maybe it's a full rebrand. We'll talk about that. But we're curating your shopping experience to create better habits, healthier habits. And we're making, and we have the affordability aspect of it, too. So it's, you know, we'll, we'll take us to our fix. But a good play might be, here's what $20 will get you at Target. Now, there's a healthier version of Froot Loops in there. If they're, if my Froot Loops are gone tomorrow or my lucky charms. What, what do you have for me and what's it going to cost me? And you know, how far can $20 go at Target? Because the last time I remember going there, 20 bucks didn't get very far.
- [34:05]
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- [34:48]
Aaron
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- [35:36]
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- [35:51]
Melissa
yeah, and I love that because that kind of gets to my point around, you know, this is a lot of what we try to do in operations as well as in marketing. You try to understand your customer segmentation, the customer journey, overarching and really understanding the consumers and saying, look, this is for, you know, single, you know, young boy, you know, whatever, like person, you know, Chino, you know, is, you know, that's the person that needs this in their cartoon. And like, I love Erin. Like, what can $25 buy you at Target, right? And it, and it's not just one shampoo is, you know, it's shampoo, it's a Stouffer's Mac and cheese, it's a Kombucha, whatever it might be, right? And then you, you kind of like start getting back into those narratives around what it meant to go to Target, which was really like, it was, it wasn't just going into like a dollar store, right? It was felt like a more of an experience experience. And so I think again, you know, cheaper isn't necessarily better in a lot of consumers minds these days. And so I think that we could even, you know, talk about what changes Target has to make to keep up with the tastes of its, of its loyal customers, right? And so to do that, we're not going to have every single cereal available to you, right? We're going to have a curated Target marketplace because we also have furniture at Target, you know, most King super or, you know, most Krogers don't have furniture besides maybe a few plastic lawn chairs, right? So we're going to have all of these different types of. And we're going to have the best and most affordable those experiences that bring you joy. So that's when we bring in the Joanna Gaines, right, To have this curated. You know, how your bedroom could look or your college dorm room could look, right? Then you have the curated marketplace and you say, look, we want to have healthy choices. We want to have the most popular choices. And so these are the top 10 popular cereals across America. And those don't include Fruit Loops anymore, right? But we got Cheerios, we got, you know, we got Rice Krispies, we got Frosted Flakes, whatever they might be. I do think that again, I still am getting to the heart of it is that they haven't said who they are anymore. And again, I don't want to keep bemoaning the whole DEI initiative. And boycott. But there are really no winners or losers in that, right? It's not, there's a winner here and there's a, you know, a winner here. No, it's really about what have we learned from that? And that's the thing that we haven't heard from them. Right? Like, what have we learned from that? I can tell you what I've learned as a consumer. I've learned I don't need Target. I thought I would die without Target, to be honest. I, I love, I mean I, I love Target. I used to. So that's what I learned. Which was really kind of weird to think, you know what, you can get shampoo in other places, you know, and you don't have, you know, you can get throw pillows at other places. And so that was really an interesting thing for me, somebody who used to go there weekly. And so I think like I've learned that I can do without. But what has Target learned about that whole situation? What have they learned about their customers and their voices? I mean, they have lost foot traffic, they've lost, maybe they, their big superstores need to be smaller. Right? You know, I don't know.
- [39:44]
Aaron
But the challenge that they're in, they have many challenges. But let's, let's give them a marketing challenge. Is the Target symbol, You know, it's a Target, it's a red Target with a dot in the middle. That's so open ended. That's anything. You know, it could be anything. They're not called discount mart, sorry, if that's your trademark. They're not called Shop for Less. They're not called Buy Everything. We have everything under the sun here. They're called Target. And that means you can do anything you want with that. So the marketing challenge is the minute they start defining we are this and we're not that, they lose people because anyone who wanted them to be that would pin them down and say, well, I thought you were that. You know, in my mind and my perceptions you were. But now you're telling me you're not. Okay, well now Target as a definition and it's getting narrower and narrower and that's not for me. So it's to their advantage to leave.
- [40:38]
Asana Announcer
What?
- [40:38]
Aaron
Target is big.
- [40:40]
Melissa
I see what you say there. I think I understand that. But I also like my point again about there not being a winner in the whole boycott situation is truly that, Aaron, because there is no winner. So like even if they were to say our soul and mission, this is our vision and mission, there's always going to be people that aren't happy. I would just like for them to be able to kind of put something down as that would help all of us understand, like, what have you learned from this? Where are we going for, how are we moving forward? And if the 3,000 discounted items is the way we're moving forward and we're not going to talk about it. Okay, but that doesn't entice me to come shop again. I don't know.
- [41:32]
Chino
And I think that's the point too. So I agree. Like, there's two things, right? You're always going to isolate some part of the market, right? Whether you define it, which is what you're sharing there, Aaron. But I hear your point too, Melissa, because it's the learning aspect. I don't think it's necessarily learning. It's how can you work with us? Is there a way for us to negotiate and get on the table? You need us to come back at the end of the day. So, so what I would appreciate having, you know, I'm speaking as you, you know, as someone who used to be a loyalist. I'm not, I'm Canadian. I don't have Target. But who, whoever used to be a loyalist. I think asking them what would be your value prop. Why can't we do a, a focus group? Why can't we have you vote on what the products are? Maybe you, yes, you do Target, and It's only the 10, you know, cereals that are the most popular. And you know, here's two that are brand new, really cool brands that you might not have heard of. That's at a discount because as we know, healthier foods are more expensive. It's really hard. You know, health is important, particularly as inflation goes up. You know, you tend to buy not the healthier things X, Y and Z, push people to do better and say, you know what our stance is, we want to make sure we're supporting. Maybe we never talk about this piece. Maybe we never ever really get there. But what I can say to you as a brand, because I don't want to isolate everything else. And again, would I want to shop there? I don't know. But why don't you ask the people what they need and provide that. And if it is a discount for a certain time, that's not going to work. We need this. We need to trust you. So whether it's redoing your brand over time, you need to tell us what this is about. Need to give us the why. Your teams need to have a why. Because I again, Aaron, I know most of you not really stepped foot in a Target. Aaron, I don't know if you have, what is the energy when you walk in. Is it the same, you know, Target experience you used to have? Or are people walking around who are working there just not really engaged where you feel like, ugh, whatever, I don't really care to be here. I can get actually I'll pay a little bit more but for a better experience.
- [43:53]
Aaron
Right. Well, and yeah, and as I said earlier, if, if you feel the negativity from the outside as an employee, you can't help that. You can't help but internalize that, you know, like you feel it too. And then you're, you, you know, like you said, you walk around dissatisfied or consumer. Say a customer says something to you and you, you kind of agree with them. So they're in a tough position to be the ambassadors of Target by wearing the shirt. And the best thing you can do is, is do the training and talk to your employees the same as you talk to the, you know, before you talk to the outside and say, here's what, let's define what we're all about. And I, you know, I'm playing it both ways because I said minute you start defining, you're going to lose people. But look, they, they have a, they're sitting in an opportunity to restate, even play into the open ended nature of it. Target, we're for everybody. I think we forgot about that a little bit. I think we publicly messed up a little bit. Let's rephrase it or restate it so everyone knows we are for everybody. Right? Come find yourself here. And what they did is cut prices. But in the messaging and the narrative, what they're saying a little bit but not enough is we, you know, we feel, we know consumers are feeling the pinch. We know we, we've let you down in a number of different ways. One thing we're going to be able to do, you know, we can't restore all of it right now today. We can make, we can start making changes in that direction. One thing we can do is start to eliminate some of that fatigue and not just, not just cut prices, but help you make better choices too and be the place for that. So cutting prices was a surface level again. They're going to see metrics, they're going to see charts go up, they're going to celebrate it, they're going to say we did it. You know, it'll cool down over time if nothing substantial actually happens. But if it's a Place where again, not just this surface level, 10% off. Whoa. Thank you, Target. It's no, we, you know, let's reframe. We're, we're open ended. We live in your imagination. We're for everybody. And we're not only going to cut prices, we're going to have better choices at prices that the everyday consumer can afford and appreciate and thank us for.
- [46:18]
Melissa
And to piggyback on that, I would say take those operational cost effective wins and transform those into shopper visible magic, so to speak. Right. And so take some of those savings and invest in your team that is there at the local level so that they can have those conversations with shoppers who might be like, you know, I'm not really sure about, you know, shopping here again and da, da, da, da. They need to be able to understand how to have those conversations authentically. You know, reinvest in the staff reinvest in, you know, the, the cleanliness, merchandising moments and experiences. Like maybe they need to do like a whole, you know, redo of how they actually lay out the store. Right. Maybe they're looking at their inventory. Like Erin said, like where they have here are some smart choices. So at the end of each aisle they'll have like this is, you know, for, you know, these are some smart choices for you for breakfast, these are some smart choices for late night snacking. Right. Those kinds of things and really kind of, you know, showcase that they're looking for solutions and new solutions and fixing some things behind the scenes so that it's easier for the customer to come back. Right.
- [47:40]
Chino
Or the customers who are, who have
- [47:42]
Melissa
still been going there to still go there. You know, I think again, designing those price cuts, it feels more member centric and less Target centric. Right. You know, so that we understand where they're coming from is also going to be very helpful because like we said, cheaper is not always better. And that was one of the things about shopping at Target. I knew I could probably get that cheaper at Walmart down the street. But I liked Target. I actually liked going in there. I liked that they had a lot of different things and I loved how they would have these, you know, cool partnership displays and I, I loved, you know, the seasonality displays. Right. Like I loved when it was back to school time, they had everything in the right, you know, in one section and it was very easy. They had everything printed out for all the schools and locally so you know, you could just grab a box and it already had everything in it. Right. But those are the Things that I think, you know, people are willing to pay a little bit more for that kind of curated experience. And I'm not saying a lot more. I mean, you know, we all know Target is not Nordstrom.
- [48:55]
Chino
Okay.
- [48:55]
Melissa
But again, I feel like there's that component that Target really should focus on more than price cutting is that that's why people went there. They love, you know, they're, they're loyal. They, you know, it's. It's like, okay, I really want to go there, right? So I feel like they need to turn that. And turn those operational wins that they've had or they're going to have with some of these price cuts, into investing into their team, into their stores, into that experience so that people will come back. And, you know, like, the statement doesn't have to be, you know, just, yeah, we made a mistake. I don't think they have to say that. I think what they have to say is we recognize that what our loyal, you know, shoppers are missing are, you know, these, you know, partnerships with so and so or whatever. Right. You know, I think that they've just been quiet about it and just. It. It's not going to go away.
- [49:55]
Chino
It's not. It's not. And I think, you know, going back to what you're sharing, it's like, you know, targeting the target curated experience, which means more. More experiential activations at your store.
- [50:09]
Melissa
Right?
- [50:09]
Chino
Have your store employees bring people back in. Right. So you have to reengage. So again, reinvesting into your team will be helpful, right? Reinvesting into figuring out what your brand is and investing and speaking to the people you've lost and asking them, what do they need? You made a mistake. You know, for some people, they'll never go back. Right. I remember, you know, I had an aunt who Canadian Tire was a thing. They made one mistake on her tire. She swears to God she'll never step foot in a Canadian Tire. I love Canadian Tire. Totally different on the Canadian side, but you'll have people who will never go back to Target, and that's okay. But there's a whole plethora of people that are open to hearing and saying, you know, maybe we don't want to cancel you forever, but I need to know that you figured something out or you're doing something for me that you completely pulled back. Like, what are you doing for me and for me to come back? And if you're not going to be the value prop, which you are not, not yet, maybe in 10, 20 years, where you have a brand presence like Walmart that is known for that, that's great. But you're never going to compete with Walmart against value. So that's not it. Don't start going down that pathway. Little campaigns like this is fine, but it's not going to work. You need to go back to the experience. That's what Target was about. It was creating things, educating you as a consumer on new brands that you may not have heard of, curating the list so that it's not a thousand things, it's 10. And again, speaking to your loyalists, whomever that is today, and saying, what do you need from us? And that will be your starting point. And if you can't do that, unfortunately, I think Target US will mirror what has happened in Canada. You know, where there's no presence here. It took a year and you guys ran out of here. So we don't want that. I don't think that they want that.
- [52:10]
Melissa
I want to ask you, Aaron, about that because Chino brings up some really good points here. And how is it that the Target execs haven't learned some lessons from the failures in Canada? Kmart, like other, you know, what are they thinking? Like just cutting costs is going to do them any good? I mean, look at. Dollar stores are going down, right? You know, they're only charging a dollar and people are, and, and they're, they're, they're going out of business. So why is it that they aren't learning and, and looking at the competitive ecosystem and thinking, okay, we've got to shift, we've got to do some things differently. And so how do we either scale back or grow here or, you know, market differently? It just seems really strange to me that, like, there's so many of these examples out there that are in their atmosphere kind of their orbit may not directly relate to them, but you've seen just like. And then cancel culture so deep, you know, you've seen one bed ad and you know you're in trouble, right? So what is your thought there of what they could possibly be thinking and why they aren't really kind of. Or are they?
- [53:37]
Aaron
I mean, you have to wonder, right? It's because there's. We were two to three years into this, right? It's been. Or maybe more. It's been a while. So to come up with a response, you know, a tactical response, if you waited that long, the expectation is it's going to be big, it's going to be a full strategic reset, there's maybe a rebrand like we said you have to wonder if they're just spin and maintenance mode or if the execs are. Sorry, execs. But if you're just so well compensated that you're above it all and you, you know, you're immune to what's happening at the, at the store level. I hope that's not the case. I hope they've been digging in and, you know, doing some really, really serious soul searching over the past few years. And this is the tip of what we're, we're going to be seeing rolling out. But no, there, there is a Melissa to your point. Like there's, it's, there's a disconnect. Right. And it's. And a disappointment to, you know, three years. That's, that's what you chose to do. You know, it's like when you, you hear about a movie that's been in development for forever and then it comes out and you're like, wait, that took you that long to make that terrible movie? And I'm not saying it's terrible, it's just not. It's, it's a non starter so far, at least, you know, for the things that really matter.
- [54:59]
Melissa
It's very interesting to me because this, this has been. The wonderful thing about the consistency of this podcast is that we look for specific areas and opportunities to fix.
- [55:12]
Aaron
Yeah.
- [55:12]
Melissa
And yet it feels like it doesn't matter what genre, what business, what company they kind, it all kind of comes back to these types of things where it's active listening, understanding your consumer base, you know, understanding the complexity in operations, people, culture, brand marketing. Right. And really that's. It feels like again, I want to say going back to our CEOs that fail upwards. Like, I do believe there's been some changes at Target and there's been some new people that have come in from the, at the exact level. But is it just like musical chairs? Like, are not, are not they looking at what's going on and saying, oh, maybe we should try something different? I mean, of course we want to, you know, make it the most affordable. But like we're just going to cut prices and be gimmicky that way and just say that and not have it be like I said something that's surrounding a narrative that is a really cool, like we've seen brand launches. Aaron, you've been involved in them like that are really, really fun and just take off. I mean, we talk about the super bowl ads. Right. You know, all of these kinds of things. Like there's a way to make Investments that can really rocket ship you. So what is the problem here? I. I feel like Target is trying to go the opposite direction. And they're, and they're like following Chino might think your favorite word. They're following a playbook that's going to make them obsolete. Like, they, they need a new playbook.
- [56:53]
Chino
They need a new playbook.
- [56:55]
Aaron
Yeah, that's our, that's our job. They're not here. We get to tell them it's our show. We get to tell them what to do. So we're gonna fix this. It's. It's what we. We have to. All right, here's what you're gonna do. You're not gonna celebrate that the boycott's over, because we haven't. Not all of us have decided that it's over. So it's over when. When the public says it's over. When. And I'm not talking about fringe. You know, activists have their party of one. Like, there's always going to be dissenters. Right. But when unilaterally consumers and, and those that have a valid point to make, say, Target, you're off the hook. Then it's over. But don't call it over yet. And you're in a position to own this narrative. So the less you say and the more you stick to a talking point, the more people are going to talk about you and you're going to lose control of that. And I think we're a long way away. I, you know, I haven't looked at their books today, but I think we're a long way away from no more targets ever, anywhere that's going to be that, you know, catastrophic things that haven't happened yet. But are you. Is there a slippery slope and a precipice? Yeah, we're seeing. We're seeing some things, you know, eroding. Own this narrative. Take this moment and start rebuilding. You know, let's. Let's think about the people involved. Chino and Melissa, we've talked about a lot about the employees. I think that's the heart of it. You know, you have a moment to rebuild the company around your employees, right. And think about can they afford your products? You know, this is. Think about them as, as proxies for the rest of us. Do they could or do they walk around happy? Do they look. Do they make discoveries in the store like the Target lady on snl and, you know, oh, I didn't know they sell this here. I'm going to get this for myself, you know, and we're.
- [58:40]
Chino
You're.
- [58:41]
Aaron
In the middle of like a hostage negotiation with. With the boycott. Be people that have been boycotting you where the doors open a crack. So, you know, look at your employees and your people and look at who. Who isn't represented here and how do we adjust our hiring practices or maybe go back to some of the ways we used to do this and not make it a political statement. Just make sure your people are representative of your communities and who shops at your store and start to rebuild your identity around the people. That's. That makes a lot of sense. Right. While you're doing that, if you're gonna cut prices, do it well. You know, people will appreciate it. If you're gonna cut products and say they're banned now, do it in a way that people also appreciate. So instead of saying, well, you're not gonna get this here anymore. Well, what. What am I gonna get? You know, what are the alternatives? Are they affordable alternatives? Are they things that you can trade any into liking? Are you. Or can you curate experiences around those discoveries and make sure that I have. Operationally, it's not a nightmare because I can't find what I bought last week. It's. It's a natural progression to something else that, oh, this is even better and it costs the same or it's affordable. I'm on board, you know.
- [59:51]
Melissa
Right.
- [59:52]
Aaron
And then you just do that stuff. Yeah. Melissa, do we, do we fix it again for Target?
- [60:02]
Melissa
I think we did. I think, you know, I think there are some very key things in there that you talked about, Aaron. I think first of all, I would tell them to re anchor their brand. Their brand was so important and really re anchor it around their guest and their guest and recommit publicly. Like own it. Pick your core segments, know your customers, whether that's progressive suburban families, whether that's, you know, young urban shoppers, whatever it is, do so in your actions, not just your ads. Rebuild your inclusive merchandising and diversity with better store levels, you know, planning. And instead of retreating from that, I say use transparency in a we heard you campaign that explains how they'll protect employee values as well as, you know, the consumer values, making it clear that those are not for sale and those are something that they stand by. And I think designing the price cuts around what we've talked about, a customer experience, not just a panic promo, is really important. Turning those operational wins, wins into investments into their team, into the stores, into the consumers, and then really like thinking about how they are going to continue in the future to integrate their social risk into their product and store governance. And like I said, there's no winners when you're boycotting and things like that. There's no one winner and one loser here. But really, you know, train your store employees and your staff to be accountable because there's going to be interactions with people, you know, and show that authenticity to the local community, I think is going to be really important. So I think there's ways for Target to really kind of come out of it and kind of rocket ship towards the future. But I think they do need to really own up, really own up right now.
- [61:57]
Aaron
Okay, we'll, we'll, we'll put that all in a paper for them. Chino, did, did we fix Target?
- [62:06]
Chino
I think so. You know, Target, you can't put lipstick on a pig. That's what this is. And everyone has kind of seen right through it. You need to get to the core of who you were. And that was, again, curating experiences. You're not the cheapest store around. You need to recommit to your consumers one way or the other. Right. So get in front of it, own your mistake and learn from what you've gone through. Right. Whether that's Target in Canada, because you are, you know, I'm looking at this like a train going down the wrong track, full seam ahead. And I'm like, you've been here before. Don't do this again. Right? From a lot of the brand governance, the storytelling, the experience. Right. You cannot afford to play in this middle ground in a time where retail is still suffering across the board in the height of inflation, people don't have the extra money to spend. You know, they went in for toothpaste, got a new wardrobe. Everyone's looking at how much they can save on that toothpaste right now. So, yes, this campaign of $3,000, 3,000 items listed, great. But there needs to be a story around it. Without a story, this doesn't mean anything. And it's is not building back the trust to the people. You need to regain trust for, for you to survive long term.
- [63:34]
Aaron
Well said. Well, Target, your move. That is going to wrap up our Target episode. Did we hit a bullseye with our fixes? That's for you all to decide if you like what we came up with or you would do this completely differently. Give us a shout on Social at. We fixed it Pod.
- [63:51]
ExpressVPN Announcer
That's.
- [63:52]
Aaron
We fixed it Pod. And we know the companies we talk about are paying attention to too. We've seen the engagement. We know you're listening. We always try to do good here so maybe something will actually happen. As always, all we want is a thank you target. Listen to us Stay fixed because we know from our listeners there are lots of other companies out there that desperately need our attention. And for all of you throwing topic ideas our way, we love it. Keep it going. We'll do our best to get to everything and we will see you next time.
- [64:23]
ExpressVPN Announcer
We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.
- [64:38]
Asana Announcer
Working across teams is tough, but Asana helps you handle it. Asana AI can spot roadblocks and assign work to keep everything on track. That that's how work gets handled. Visit us@asana.com Working across teams is tough, but Asana helps you handle it. That's because Asana is where humans and AI coordinate work together. AI can spot roadblocks and assign work in a snap so everything and everyone stays on track. That's how work gets handled. That's Asana. Visit us@asana.com that's a S a n a dot com.