← We Fixed It, You're Welcome
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. GLP1s are changing the eating habits of millions. That makes sense. If we all take a drug that calms our appetite, we probably buy less food. But that's just the beginning. Turns out people are also drinking less, spending more on clothes, redefining what value means to them. And with 21% of US households now having at least one GLP1 user, this is all making a big impact on the economy. And that happened fast. Our consumer market was not built for wild shifts like this. What we've seen are businesses trying to adapt as quick as possible, often getting in their own way. Turns out in a lot of cases, you can't just slap GLP1 friendly on a product and call it a day. That's not enough. But like all trends, the companies that can figure this out stand to make a killing. Those that can't might just disappear forever. So how do Companies appeal to GLP1 users when GLP1s are still so new and this is all happening in real time? How can companies better prepare for any kind of market disruption like this one? That's what we're here to fix. And thank goodness we've got some help. Joining Chino and me today is Lisa W. Miller. Lisa is consumer insights and Innovation strategist at Lisa W. Miller and Associates. Before that, she was VP of Insights, Frito Lay and PepsiCo, and VP of Innovation at Brinker International. For the past six months, Lisa has reviewed more than 30 GLP1 studies and surveyed 6,500 US consumers for her report, the GLP1 Blueprint. What's next and how to prepare. So if we're going to fix this, I know we're going to need Lisa. Lisa, welcome to our show. We're so glad to have you. Let's hear. Tell us just a little bit more about you and also what first got you interested in GLP1s.
- [01:52]
B
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. It's a great conversation, great topic. So my background is I'm a consumer strategist, a consumer researcher. What does that mean? That means I ask questions for a living. And so I help companies big and small. So companies like Walmart, Applebee's, Chili's, American Heart association, even some financial services and big box retailers. But it's all about asking the right questions to be able to understand their consumers so they can grow. And I Love what I do. But here's what got me. And I was so excited when you reached out because this topic was so frustrating to me because as a researcher, I literally all a lot of the folks, the CEOs and the CMOs that I work with, they're. Lisa, like, what's going on with GLP1? Like, I read these reports and they're kind of conflicting and they're different and I don't know what to do because I pull a number out and then I look at another report and it's different. So as a researcher that likes to ask questions, I decided to take it upon myself to do my own research. And so in January, really buckled down and 6,500 surveys later, I know a lot about GLP1 consumers and what's next.
- [03:06]
A
Well, thanks, Lisa. And you've read through all those studies so we don't have to. And you've done all the proprietary research. And we're really happy you're here because you're going to be informing our topic today. Chino, we could talk about the medical side of GLP1s, but we're not doctors. So let's talk about the business and cultural impact.
- [03:23]
C
What's happening here aside from the potential benefits to users on GLP1s, which is shaking up the economy, as mentioned in the PwC report that 21% of US households have at least one person using a GLP1, and that's more than double since January 2025. So means grocery spending in the household is way down. Apparel spending, weirdly, is actually on the rise. Restaurant visits stay about the same. And according to Circana, people are ordering fewer sides, snacks, breads and alcoholic drinks. The National Restaurant association found that nearly half of users reported cutting back since starting this medication. In other words, the restaurant might be full, but customers are spending less. And that's, at the end of the day, bad for business. So what are companies doing about this? Well, a lot of big food companies are investing in smaller packages. Fiber. Fiber is the craze right now. You know, there's shorter ingredient lists and more protein. You know, hello, Doritos protein line as an example. Olive Garden rolled out a lighter portions at lower prices. David's Bridal even launched a fit guarantee just in case it just needs to be reworked because of GLP1 weight loss. But other companies are just putting GLP1 friendly labels, as Aaron mentioned, the slapping that on everything. And so either they're already healthy to begin with or they're actually not really GLP1 friendly. And so what's going to make sense moving forward is looking as a company at what's going to happen be right. And the companies that are getting this right are the ones that are going to last. And so, Lisa, let's start with the thing that surprised you most from your survey findings and would love to dive deep into this.
- [05:17]
B
Oh, for sure. Well, let me just start with that one thing we talked about at the beginning, which because I was so frustrated, I read those 30 studies and the issue is I encourage everybody out there. When you're looking for data, there's data out there, but you have to understand what it is. Who did they ask, who did they survey, who paid for the survey, Is it trended over time? So caution out there, just don't grab and go. It's not a drive through. You have to really understand what you're looking at because you can make really bad decisions, not understand the context of the data. So that's number one. But since January, one of the biggest, I think, most interesting thing that I have heard nobody talking about and I have done the digging is that there's been a massive increase in men just in the last six months that are starting on GLP1s and guess what? They're demographically different than what the women are. And I think that's fascinating. And so, you know, you think about this image in our mind of who a GOP one consumer is, it's based on what we see in social media. You know, I call it the Oprah effect, and then there's the Serena Williams effect on all of these things. So there's been this massive narrative around females in GOP one and maybe let's just say a little older, right. Women and then all the celebrities. Right. And so this narrative around females has been driven by social media, but the data shows men are pretty darn interested and in fact, growing and, you know, a huge part majority of the users today.
- [07:00]
A
That's really interesting because there's, like you said, the public face of it is overwhelmingly female. So is it just a matter of catching up or going with the consumers that they feel are first, you know, more likely to adopt or what do you think the imbalance has been in what the perception is versus what the reality is?
- [07:20]
B
Well, part of it, it's remember that survey design that I just mentioned? So let's think about that. And again, it's never to say there's right and wrong. It's just you have to understand what the data's telling you. So if you're doing a survey among primary grocery shoppers, then that data organically is going to skew FEMA from the start. If I'm looking for just restaurant users, that, and I'm going to fill up 100 people or 300 people that are GLP1, they're going to be heavier users of restaurants just by, you know, you're not going to get a random sample. So one of the things is that some of the data we've been seeing, I feel like maybe not random and therefore it's skewed.
- [08:02]
C
Right.
- [08:02]
B
So maybe that's, that's part of why. The other part, and Tina, you mentioned this earlier, is the fact that, you know, with a lot of households, you know, the fact that women had tried it and now maybe the spouses or the brothers or, you know, siblings, you know, all this, there's acceptance now. So the stigma, people are more open to talk about it now. Women weigh more than men, but that's the thing, too. But the other part is the last leg on that is, I bet you didn't know this, but from a physiological standpoint, men have fewer side effects.
- [08:42]
A
I did not know that.
- [08:43]
C
I had no idea. I was like, not another one. Not another one for the men. Okay.
- [08:49]
B
Yeah. And so think about this. A man might see the wife or a co worker just like, oh, my God, this GLP1, I'm sick, I'm nauseous. And then they're not going to want to try it, but then they see the results and then they're like, well,
- [09:05]
C
maybe it's not so bad.
- [09:06]
B
Maybe I might try it. And then, oh, my gosh, I don't
- [09:09]
C
have those side effects.
- [09:10]
A
Yeah, well, and it's also interesting from a consumer perspective, when you see someone that's not a proxy of you and not representative of you, so you can say like, okay, well, I get that it works for females, but I'm not a female, so how do I know it's going to work for me? You know, there's that barrier of adoption, especially if, like, Lisa, what you're saying is, is permeated in the news cycle and the social feeds and all that. Like, all I'm seeing are women and GLP1s. But then I'm, what do I do about myself? Like, I don't believe it yet. You know, you always have to cross that barrier of adoption for consumers of like, but prove it works for me.
- [09:48]
C
On that note, too, what's really interesting too, because again, in Canada, I feel like we have had more direct to consumer GLP1 use cases faster than it has been in the US and what I've actually noticed in, in these commercials is again, in the beginning, a lot of women, you know, leading the charge. Hey, I'm on GLP1s of all ages too. Like, I don't just see GLP1s as an older women demographic anymore, where last year I would say more so. But in the commercials, you're seeing more men. There was a really good one that was actually directed specifically to men. I think with Felix Health that, that did that. And again, for men in the room, I know this is a new and it's, you know, exclusive, you know, we fixed it pod, you know, information and insight. But I do think that you're going to be seeing more men as part of the conversation and saying, hey, look, we actually don't get as many side effects. And so I think the narrative is shift, swiftly shifting to be more inclusive that way.
- [10:50]
B
Well, and nobody's said. And that's why I'm excited you guys are getting the scoop. Because if you think about it, nobody's talking about men adoption trial rates until now. And obviously there's probably studies like you just mentioned in that creative that you just shared of that, that target audience is pretty important. But the other thing too is just I encourage everybody in the room here just saying, hey, go. You know, how many friends do every. All the listeners out there are viewers. How many people do you guys know there on DLP1s? And when I talk to, you know, CEOs and yes, predominantly male and I bring this up to them, they're like, wow, I hadn't thought about. But yeah, I have a lot of friends or maybe the person themselves is on GLP1. And so the stigma, I think for men is definitely different, but the demographics of age and income, where they are in their careers, they're a female user is very different. And it's really important of how you market. You know, average is awful. So you can't treat a GLP1 user as just a GLP1 user.
- [11:51]
A
Yeah, if I really think about it, I can think of a number of men that I know that are on GLP1s. Are they active? You know, they. Maybe it's the stigma. Maybe it's just because they're earlier, they've caught the second wave of it. But they're. I, you know, I don't see them actively talking about their journey on social or things like that. It's more of a private. A private and you know, this is for me type of thing. But, but that could Be for a number, like maybe men just behave different on social in that type of regard or there could be a number of factors at play there.
- [12:24]
C
I'm also curious too, because in my, you know, social setting too, there are a few friends who have been on GLP1s and often it's been a bit secretive. There is still a stigma around using them. And I think, you know, for people who are medically where doctors are saying, you know, try this, it's, it's great. But there's other, there's the other users who's like using it for weight supplement, right? And I think when it's medically deemed required versus using it for weight loss for people that may be average size for those that are advertised using it in that way, there is a still a sigma about it where, you know, I remember going into someone's fridge and I saw it and I was like, oh, I didn't know you were, you were doing this. And again, not a problem. But there's still that stigma. I don't think it just leads into to only men. So I'd love to talk about that. Lisa. Oh, yeah.
- [13:11]
B
Oh my gosh. We get. How much time do we have? If you can imagine on the, in the data, the survey that I have, I can cut that data by how much weight do you want to lose? I can cut that data by where did you get your GLP1 meds? Did you go to a doctor? Did you go to the Noom and Weight Watchers? Did you go to the himhers? So all of those things impact number one, maybe how long you're going to be on it because the support of a physician might be more. But all of these variables are compounded into how do you even market to it? What is my risk as a company? I'll tell you one other fact. When I look at the data, I have over 30, 60 restaurant brands, actually. 60 restaurant brands. And I can actually say with precision what percent of a certain brand's current users are on GLP1 today. And it ranges fast food all the way up to polished casual dining. And here's the thing, that number varies from 12% to 43%.
- [14:22]
A
Wow. You know, maybe GLP1 eating habits and eating styles are just better for all of us. You know, the ripple effect is smaller portions and healthier diets and, and meals. The restaurants are accommodating these things. But there's also, you know, if you start to formulate your, your menus around GLP1 users and you or you have a specialty GLP1 section, does that alienate the consumers or the patrons that aren't on it? Like, would someone who's not a GLP1 user Gravitate toward a GLP1 style meal menu option? Or you now segmenting your customers in different buckets where they don't want to be categorized publicly?
- [15:05]
B
And I will tell you, and I can't share too much detail, but many of my clients, because in addition to this ongoing tracking, I do, that's my own proprietary data, companies hire me to ask questions on behalf of their brands. So that very question is a very hot topic because people are trying to figure out if you have a brand that's 43% of your consumers today or on GLP1, then that answer might be different than somebody that has 12%. And then the crazy, the other compounding thing is with the Medicare that just came out on July 1st at $50, copay boomers have kind of kept the restaurant business afloat a little bit during these economic times because they have money to spend. And so now you have a whole new population that the accessibility has increased dramatically just as of July 1st.
- [16:02]
A
43% versus, what is it, 12? 12%, that's a big swing. So 12%, you're talking about a niche within your, your current user base or maybe a secondary market to look at 43%, that's recalibration. That's like we stop the press, we gotta do something different. You were missing the train here.
- [16:25]
B
And then some brands of those are actually benefiting from the fact that so much of their business is that because of what they offer.
- [16:34]
A
Yeah.
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B
So they don't need to say anything because their brand's already on point.
- [16:39]
A
Right.
- [16:39]
B
And then there's, you know, other brands that, holy cow. You know, and let's just think about, you know, just at a high level, you know, a family dining with pancakes and French toast and all of that versus a steakhouse. You know, there's certain brands that are going to just organically already be on trend with this.
- [17:02]
A
Well, and Lisa, I don't need to get calculated about it, but are there brands that can take this as an opportunity for cost savings? And like I heard McDonald's is going to stop doing the endless refills. And now you, now you're going to get asked for it at the counter or get your one serving and that's it. And that's going to, that would be an industry sweeping trend and reform if you, there's endless, you know, endless pancakes, come back for more. Can they cut those out because they're going to say these, you know, we want to be responsive to the times. Is it, are, are there companies that are thinking about this a little bit more from a bottom line perspective?
- [17:39]
B
Well, I will just say we've seen this movie before because during the pandemic, people kind of used the pandemic as a way to cut, cut menus back or shift menu priorities. And so the short answer to your question is absolutely, that's happening. And I think the part of it is, you know, I'll just call out a brand, not that I worked on this at all, but, you know, Chili successfully tightened their menu and they got grief for it during the pandemic. But what happened along the way is their operational excellence went through the roof because they actually improved the items that they kept. And so you always have to also watch that negative press to say, you know, even though they get grilled by their consumers temporarily, if it's a better experience, in the end they're going to win the consumer vote. But I will comment on just one fun thing just because, you know, the World cup, you know, was recently here and I think there's going to be all those social media posts about the size of beverages that are the size of your head. And you know, there were all of these TikTok videos that, you know, people from around the world were like, wow, this is a very large drink now, people like what they like. But I think there's just an interesting, at this very moment coming out of the World cup, there's a moment of portion sizes have been in the spotlight lately from our friends from around the world.
- [19:13]
A
Totally. And ranch dressing, for whatever reason that's caught on fire around the world. But I, I, I'll push a little bit. I have to ask cynically, like, can they take in restaurants or, or food packaged goods companies take something that was already there, already relatively healthy, reduce the portion size on it, make the package GLP1 friendly and charge more for it. You know, is it, or can they capitalize on a moment?
- [19:39]
C
I don't think so. I think that the things that are healthy, right, like so you think about a salad, I think maybe not packaging up as go GOP one friendly, but maybe emphasizing the healthier options. Like we've seen this before when like the vegan movement and you know, now it's been protein and now it's all about fiber. There's always been a type of movement and I think what's interesting with GLP1s is it's physically changing people's behavior Right. It's, you're, you're suppressed in your appetite and you're kind of your vices. Right. People who are, you know, it stops people from smoking and overeating and all of these things, which is very interesting. But I, I don't think it would be packaging it into a GLP1 specific, you know, box. But I do think saying, hey, here's more healthier options if this is what people are looking to do more of. Right. Like, we did need a bit of a shift and a shakeup when it comes to portion control. Healthier options in terms of food where, you know, historically the cheaper option was often not great for you. Right. People would go to the Walmarts and, you know, accessibility when it comes to fresh food in many places, particularly in the south of the U.S. but I think having more of the good stuff I think is a great option for people who are looking at kind of this complete shift in consumer behavior and really leaning into it versus saying this is GLP1 friendly. I don't know if using that branding would make sense, but Lisa, you might tell me differently, so who knows?
- [21:13]
B
Well, of course I have a point of view. It depends on who your customer is. Right. And so I'll just say Walmart has a whole page that's GLP friendly. And because their business is very much impacted, if they make it easier for somebody that's on it in the short term, it may be fine, but the products themselves, it's, it's not necessarily. I know one of the things that we talked about was like Doritos protein and that's a pretty overt, you know, move. And so there's this bell curve, but I think it starts back with, is your GLP1 user a male or a female? Is your GLP1 what are their needs? Like, I have data to show There are some GLP1 users that quantity is still super important versus others. The quality is super important. And so I think that the answer is it could work for some to either lean into GLP specifically, but then there's lean into the attributes protein and fiber. And then there are others that could be just, hey, my products already fit, so I'm just going to ride the wave. So I think it's, you know, that whole notion of average is awful. We have to understand the question and the target audience to really be able to get to the right solution.
- [22:28]
A
Yeah, well, and consumers vote with their wallets. So I, at least for the moment, I could go to Walmart and buy, I could buy a literal, literal Barrel of cheese puffs, you know, for the same price or maybe less that I could for a small packet variety pack of, of high protein cheese puff formulated for, you know, for a dietary restriction type of things. So but you know we're talking 21% of US households. What if we get to 30% or 50% or you know to getting closer to the vast majority, those big cheese puff barrels, they may start disappearing. We might not see them as much.
- [23:09]
B
I think, yeah. I think what I say is like the Wave one of DLP users is already in the rearview mirror. Wave two is actually already here because of the men. Wave three is about to come which is going to change also everything because if you get more adoption in older consumers, the current usage of GLP1s is quite a bit lower for older people like over 65. So those on Medicare and while my data I don't exactly have a direct link based on what I've read is obviously cost is a, you know, if they're on Medicare and it's not covered, they're not going to have it. I think one headline that also you guys are going to get the scoop on is the $50 unlock. Everybody's like yay, hooray, high five. Well the reality of it is there's 2x65 and plus year old people that $50 is not cheap enough 2x that actually are interested but $50 is still too much. So I think your question Aaron of that it's going to grow. The only thing that is going to preclude it is you know, if some negative press really comes out saying the longitudinal studies or you know, something really significant, recall something, something, something like that because those are, those aren't those you can't predict. But what you can do is if a business is listening, you should predict that because okay, if in an instant some news breaks that holy cow XYZ on GOP and you have all of this around, you better be, it's perfectly predictable. So you better be ready so you won't be caught off surprise, caught by surprise like a supply chain issue. Right. Don't just bank on it and put up set and what is it, what is it called when you just set it and forget it? I forget.
- [25:02]
A
Right. True, true. But companies have been put through the ringer with these diets and these trends that have happened. You know, some keto to paleo to caveman to plant based KFC was selling impossible nuggets without chicken and almond. Now they're gone. That lasted a minute. So this is another thing yet to throw in front of these companies that are just trying to profit and make money and do, you know, do well and keep up with the trends of consumers. But now is, you know, if. If we're all going to be in GLP1 era for a good while, is. Are the trends that are being established now, are they being. Are these the trends? Can we, can we count on them? Or like Lisa, you said this is the second wave or the brink of the third wave. Is this super volatile and unpredictable where the company should not make major swings or changes based on anything that's happening in the moment because it's all too early.
- [25:58]
B
Yeah, I think my background, as I mentioned or you mentioned, I was at Frito Lay for a number of years and then I was head of innovation at Brinker. And the opportunity, that idea of if you wait for things to be certain, you've missed the opportunity. And so my belief is do lots of experiments. It's this idea of reinvention where you anticipate, you design and you implement small experiments all the time. So you're not putting all your eggs in one basket because we live in a world of uncertainty. But you can't just not do anything if it's going to get that big. I did want to call out an example you mentioned, Erin, at the beginning about David's Bridal. And I want to, because that goes back to something outside the food business, which is, I learned through a friend, literally. I was on a call with a client and she had gotten married in November, and we were talking about GLP1. And she goes, lisa, she goes, when I bought my wedding dress, they made me sign a contract that I was not on GLP1 and. And that I was not going to lose weight because the refit costs of the small boutiques was becoming excessive because they build it in the cost of a final fitting. And so you have all of these mothers of the bride, all these people that it's supposed to be joyful, and yet they're saying, oh, my gosh, if you're on GLP1, I can't guarantee you're fit. So they went through fear, which is fear of excessive cost. So I'm going to make you sign a contract, which is horrible, I think. And then on the other hand, David's Bridal, they're like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not going to make you sign a contract. In fact, we're going to go above and beyond that and say it's a fit guarantee no matter what. So they're Leading with joy to say, we know it's going to happen, it's going to anticipate, but we can't interrupt the most joyful moment of a woman's life to say, oh, don't encourage you to lose weight because, you know, it's kind of sometimes a thing. But that's a good example of they saw a problem. They were, people were coming in weighing 30 pounds less on their last fitting. And sometimes you can't even adjust right. You just can't. And one the smaller boutique said, oh, no, no, no, we have to prevent that problem Versus David Bridle said, no, I can't not, I'm not going to make you fit to me. I'm going to fit to you. I'm going to help you in that problem. So that's a good example of fear versus joy when you have uncertainty around GLP1.
- [28:38]
A
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- [28:40]
C
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- [29:07]
A
See terms she know how our company's adapting on the talent side and the people side, because I can see, you know, like it could be a perk, like a new employee, like we cover your GLP1, we'll pay 100% of it. Or if someone goes through a radical weight loss in a year, that's, you know, is there, are there policies or they're being taught? Is there like how do you handle this, these types of situations?
- [29:32]
C
I love what you said, Lisa. What kind of the fear versus joy. And I'd actually, you know, talk about any organization where they have a uniform, for example, right. Imagine, you know, I don't know, think of even McDonald's, right? They Everybody has to wear the McDonald's uniform. If everybody or 40% of McDonald's employees all went on a GLP1 tomorrow and then three months, they've all lost drastic amount of weight. That is a lot of money when it comes to replacing or tailoring these outfits. So what do you do as a business Right. And I think again, there's the food aspect, but there's also the other aspects on business that we can look at. And from an HR and people perspective, this is becoming more and more part of the conversations with employers. I'm actually helping a certain agency with this exact challenge right now. Because, you know, first and foremost, right before GLP1s were really looked to as a weight loss, you know, miracle drug, it was used for diabetes. Right. And so there's an aspect of like, there's again, medical necessity where a doctor's requiring to, to go on GLP1s for whatever medical benefits. Right. So there's that piece. I can't. You can't, as an employer dictate if someone is going to do that or not. Right. That is just a part of it. Or for example, if there was somebody who is overweight and they, you know, elect to go for gastric bypass surgery, they have like major weight loss as well. Right. You need to treat it the same from that perspective. But what do you do? Because as you've mentioned, Lisa, you know, the cost to using a GLP1 prior to July 1st for anyone that was on Medicare was very, very high. So a lot of people couldn't afford to do that. And so companies right now, in an era where we're cutting back, we're laying people off, we're looking at the numbers, they're kind of weighing out, do we provide more benefits? What the data is actually showing is more and more companies are actually cutting back on their employee benefits right now quietly, or they're doing more employee elect. So it's like you're opting into buying, you know, your GLP1s or your dental or whatever, and that's a route others are taking. But I do think when we look at GLP1s from a business perspective, you need to understand that it does impact kind of the operation side as well. And you need to make a choice whether you're going to live on the joy or the fear. And I think the best way to do that is to actually look and say, hey, this isn't going anywhere. How can we adapt to that? Whether it is your benefits, whether it's tailoring or having, you know, there's also uniforms that can, you know, that are one size fits all. Maybe you do that so that you kind of cut the cost there. So it's very interesting. And from a branding perspective, Aaron, I'm curious, like, how does somebody brand or like, are you an employer that's GLP1 friendly? Like, how do you brand yourself for that outside of food?
- [32:38]
A
Yeah, it's part of your company culture. You just have to say, you know, whatever your policies are that exist already, I think there's, if you go in the employee handbook at this point, if we're going to get to this level of, of saturation, there should be, you know, we should understand how to navigate these things. If you comment, I don't, I don't know, like if you comment on someone's appearance, is that harassment or is that, you know, being a good co worker and a reinforcement that they, you're supportive of their journey? Because not everybody, some people, it's very private, but some people are living this out loud and are very, very vocal on social and, and that, see that makes, permeates it in the air, percolates it where it seems like everyone's taking home, everyone's talking about it, but maybe you say the wrong thing to the wrong person and that they have a lot of sensitivity around it and they don't want to talk about it. So I think, you know, marketing is one side of it. You can present your externally to the culture at large. This is our corporate stance on GLP1s. This is why when we go to hire people, you know, these are the practices we look at and implement because this is our company culture, is how we represent ourselves as part of our, our marketing and our external public facing image. But it's really like companies have to figure out how to help navigate these gray areas because I don't know if you've seen an increase of incidents of those gray areas getting stepped on or people leaving because they felt it was a hostile work environment. Because when people were just trying to, I guess say something constructive or not say anything, I don't know, like it's, it was a tough time.
- [34:14]
B
Well, I think what's interesting is first of all, Tina, what an interesting insight that had not thought about on the employee uniform size because clearly there's a lot of data from a retail apparel of, you know, people buying clothes. But one little antidote, Taylor in New York, for every one suit he takes in, you know, or I'm sorry, for every one that he lets out, he's taking in 11. And those are suits in New York. But the other thing I was just thinking about is, you know, again from some stories that I've been reading about is a small town in the northeast, you know, firefighters, police officers, this Little community had $900,000 of insurance claims that hit their city budget. Small town and then even a church actually had $400,000 of GLP1. And that's going to catch the attention of the CFOs and the bookkeepers and the accounting people. And so Erin, I loved what you were saying is that again, it's anticipating that if those costs continue, then that's going to make higher premiums necessary for those that are on it. And so it just raises some really important questions. And sure, the prices have come down quite a lot in the last 18 months, but it's still, you know, if you don't have insurance, it could still be $1,600 a month. And if you have insurance, you know, on the low side might be 140amonth to 300. So it's not cheap and it's ongoing. It's not like a full year prescription for two months of antibiotics or whatever.
- [35:53]
C
Whatever.
- [35:53]
B
Or even the blood pressure medicines. It's just a completely different genre of expense.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah, it's a new subscription service that gets tacked on to your NetFL and your utility bills and all that. Now you got this other thing. Yeah, yeah.
- [36:07]
C
And it's interesting. So like in the report from business group on Health, the, you know, they surveyed a number of employers and 1 out of 10 say that they're currently covering their GLP1s for their employees, but they're actually not going to do so next year. That's 10%. Right. And so when people are eliminating that, how do you as a business think, okay, how can I support GLP1s as well users? Because in this conversation, if anyone's listening, yes, you're losing the weight, but you have to think about it holistically. It's the restaurants that you're eating, it's the clothes that you're wearing, it's the uniforms that you have, it's the, you know, the consumer behavior of what grocery stores that you shop at. It completely changes so many things. And I think if you just look at it as a one stop shop from an employee benefit perspective, you actually need to look at it more holistically because the research is also showing that, you know, you have longer term or better attrition, not attrition retention for GLP1 users. When you have doctor support. Right. When you have a medical team that's saying, okay, well, you know, here's the nutritional guide that you should be doing, not just what Walmart is sharing with you. And so I think if you're going to be an employee or an employer that says, I stand with the folks that are using GLP1s and that it's not going anywhere. I think it's a, maybe an opt in service because it is expensive. It's, you know, if you're a small town, if it's a, you know, government funding, it's really hard to bear those costs. But if folks need it, having an opt in portion kind of has best of both worlds, covering you as an employer and helping your employees. While at the same time when you're looking at those benefits, thinking about it from a holistic perspective where it's not just hey, here's a shot and like that's it, it's how can we help you? What are other guides, programs, playbooks that we can share with you to help you in this journey, whether you're trying to lose £10 or £100. I think that part is really important. And I'm really curious, Lisa, to understand how brands are looking at that.
- [38:16]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. I haven't had, I do a lot of employee engagement surveys. But it's interesting. The questions I've been getting have been coming more from the CEOs and the CMOs. So I actually, I've learned a lot on this because in the sense couple things and you don't know if it's correlation or causation. So that's my nerdy geeky research talk. But what's fascinating is I can tell you that the people, the joyful outcomes of people feeling better, being more healthy do outweigh the fear of the side effects and the cost. For those that are on it right now, the majority, of course there are going to be still more women than men have the side effects. But here's an interesting thing to ponder that again, I had not thought it, but it's going to end up in my next month's survey. Thank you, Chino. Is I want to know if it improves employee satisfaction because I feel better. And if I feel better, I'm going to be happier and I'm going to not be as tired, I might not be as stressed. I'm just physically going to feel better. And I'm going to put some questions in my survey about that for work because I haven't asked like I've asked a lot of questions around appearance and social gatherings and, you know, a lot of things. But I hadn't asked a question about do you feel like you're better at work because you're feeling more healthy? So it's a great question.
- [39:33]
C
And even going a step further too and kind of on the opposite side too, because we talk about GLP1 users, we're often thinking of people who may need to lose weight. There's also the side effect of people who have any eating disorders. Right. So for folks that have binge eating disorder, where you tend to overeat, GLP ones has been used to help kind of curb and stop the food noise, what they call it, which is actually really helpful. And I've read some reports where for people at work, they're saying, I didn't have to worry about the snack table that was there. I could just do my job. So it's really interesting. But then you also have the complete whiplash of anyone that might be suffering with, you know, for example, anorexia is one when you're seeing a lot of people lose a ton of weight. It actually kind of furthers that narrative. And you're seeing that a lot in pop culture right now. I think it's really important for us to kind of talk about that because there's also a subset of GLP1 users who are underweight and using this to kind of promote their eating disorder. So as an employee looking at that and saying, how can we also help people on the other end of the spectrum? So there's so many ways you can go.
- [40:42]
B
The celebrities and the health. You know, we've seen all the stories of the celebrities that are way too skinny and too much and some admitting it, some not. But I think it's super fascinating because imagine if there was a narrative, and I, you know, I can't presume, but if there was a narrative that that overall health, which I think most companies believe, that if employees feel healthy, they're going to be more productive. But if you think of GLP1 is a help for retention, a help for productivity, all of these things, then is that a cost to the company or is it a benefit? You know, and so it's huge.
- [41:18]
A
Yeah. Well, it's also, I'm starting to think, like, how do we bioengineer the right employees for our company? But it, you know, but is there also like a caution or a danger on the company side for, like, Chino, you're mentioning people that have the contrary motivations to what it's actually intended for. Is there a danger to making GLP1 since they're so relatively new, too accessible and too cheap, and being an enabler as a company and we don't know what data is going to come out someday? Like, Lisa, you said you can't sit around and wait. You have to act on these types of things. But could companies start Getting the pushback for making GLP1s too accessible and too, I guess, maybe like feel like a promoter within the company culture.
- [42:08]
C
I listen, what I would say with that is GLP1s are about your health at the end of the day. And if I were to advise any company and all of my clients that I work with, it's treated as an employee benefit, a medical benefit, take it out of your hands, have it there, have a support there, understand kind of the pros and benefits, but also understand the other side where you need to kind of support both ends and let employees opt in. I don't think you need to advertise and say, we are GLP1 friendly. You all need to be on GLP1s to be here. I don't think we'll ever get to that space. I hope we never do. I hope not, because again, there's not, there's not many longitudinal studies about them. Right. And we joked about this before recording. Maybe we'll all be part of the class action lawsuits GOP1 40 years from now, who knows? But I do see the benefits there and I just think employee employers should be very careful with kind of the language and messaging and just have it as a benefit that people can opt into and leave it at that for the time being.
- [43:17]
B
Well, and it's always preparing for. You have to prepare that this trajectory is happening. But like I said earlier, at the same time, you have to anticipate it kind of blowing up in a class action suit or some recall those things that would change the trajectory of growth. And you don't want to. You've got to be able to be adaptable.
- [43:38]
C
Right.
- [43:38]
B
And nimble. And that's hard for. I mean, I work with big companies and small companies and some small companies are not at all nimble and then some big companies are very nimble. So the size of a company no longer dictates its nimbleness.
- [43:55]
A
So, Lisa, you said we're in the second wave. The third wave's within. We can see it coming. Let's say the third wave is here. What does that look like?
- [44:06]
B
Well, with the adoption of baby boomers at the lower price point, that is going to unlock new usage. And so if any of the listeners out there have brands that skew to boomers or even tangentially, the ripple effect, they'll start feeling. The data I have shows that it's probably in the near term, it is a pilot and we can put that link if anybody's interested. But it's a pilot through the end of 2027 and today in my data there's about 6 million people that, that opens up accessibility of that price point. Right? It doesn't mean they're eligible. It just said if they were eligible that price point works for them. But the other side is there's 11 million senior citizens that can't afford $50. So if for some reason this pilot is wildly successful and maybe there's a way to get it to $40 or $30, then there's an 11 million more seniors that are interested. Again, whether they qualify is another matter. But that just shows even wave three is a mini wave compared to if the price continues to come down. So that's one thing. The other thing that concerns me a little bit is the fact of the ease of accessibility. Erin, you always, I mean what great questions both of you is when you think about the accessibility of the non doctor prescribed versions. So now there's international compounding. There are, you know, you can buy it through Goodrx and Noom and Weight Watchers. So me as a researcher, I did my own little sample of one experiment. I decided to say how easy is it? So I sampled because I get all these feed because I talk about a lot, you can imagine my social media feed is full of ads. And so I decided is it easy or hard to get access? You know and so as a researcher I decided I'm going to try it out. And so I was pleasantly surprised that I got denied because by my doctor I shouldn't just, I mean she could do it for other reasons but based on the loose criteria I should get denied and I did. So that made me feel good. But then there were two companies that I got easy access like Ready to Go and it was promoting, you know, for that you're not obese, you just want to lose 10 or 15 pounds and that's that vanity weight loss versus and I think that's a little dangerous. So I feel like that people need to be watching that because if you think about the impact of social media on young Gen Z, a lot of my work I have a whole parallel path of deep dives on Gen Z and if the impact of social media on Gen Z, what if we have a generation of kids that take these drugs and they don't need to and sure if it's prescribed and warranted, absolutely they should have access. But I saw a report of a woman who's 20 years old and she took the GLP1s and her bone density is like a 50 year old and
- [47:15]
C
I will say too so it's just kind of echoing that. And in my, you know, I'm a younger millennial, almost Gen Z, but I'm seeing this in my day to day with my own peers and I've seen people take it where it's borderline on a, you know, it's troublesome and it's a health scare. And again, we don't know what the long term effects of GLP1s are at this stage. It's also very tricky. But the other thing is, is what happens when you stop the weight comes back on. There's a lot of hormonal changes and imbalances. Your insulin resistance is much, is much worse than when you started. And so it is for the people who are just using it as a short term weight loss kind of quick fix, it's incredibly dangerous. And though that's what we need to have our guardrails on because unfortunately I'm seeing this live in my circle of friends and friends of friends. And I don't think that's going to go anywhere, particularly in a moment where skinny is back, unfortunately. Hate to say it, but that's what's back and that's what we're seeing and it's through your, all of your feeds. And for the younger generation, we've been here before with the diet cycle, we kind of, you know, flipped to body positivity. Now we're back into this, you know, very dangerous position. And I think government healthcare providers and those that are giving kind of direct to consumer GLP1s need to have better guardrails, particularly in these younger age groups.
- [48:50]
B
And those are the ones that are getting it, not from their doctor. My data shows that younger consumers are not going to their doctors where older are. And I think I do have that, I do have that question in my survey, like, do you expect to have to be on this for the rest of your life? Do you consider this a short term fix? So I have that data in my survey as well.
- [49:07]
A
Well, speaking of your survey, Lisa, and the work you've been doing, is there anything else shocking or surprising that came out that we wouldn't expect?
- [49:14]
B
I think for me right now, I am so excited that this report is finally out. And just some of the insights there, the biggest one was this whole mail thing. But I do think the notion that wave one is different from wave two, which is going to be different from wave three and that it's too big to ignore at this point. And I think every company really should be at least having a conversation. So you're proactively either saying, okay, I get it, it's something I understand. I'm going to continue watching. But strategy as is fine, but at least overtly have the conversation about it and not be caught off guard because you opened it up just perfectly. Erin, is there going to be winners and losers in this? And I always say lead through joy, not fear. And you have to tackle that uncertainty with decisiveness. But you can't ask your customers to change their behavior. That's absurd.
- [50:11]
A
Right. Well in this, your studies just, just breaking like it's just going to get out there and we'll see the effects that it has because that's, you know, there's, there's power to understanding when there's conflicting reports and surveys. But you've, you paid attention to all of it and you've conducted your own proprietary research and you can say, look, here's what I've, what I've gained after taking a look at this entire industry. We'll see what the survey does too. Because brands and companies should be paying attention to the work you've been doing.
- [50:41]
B
Yeah, that's my hope because I just feel like again, I have this passion for asking questions and helping companies get to the right answer. But the other thing we didn't talk about that I do want to mention is on my journey of just digging into all of this topic, one weekend I saw a bunch of articles around clinical trials. One Wall Street Journal article mentioned one clinical trial. So I actually went in and I looked up the history of GLP1 clinical trials over the last five years since the pandemic. And the number of clinical trials was, you know, maybe call it 10, 20, something like that and you know, years ago, like five, six years ago. Today in 2026, there's 200 active clinical trials and they range from supplements to surgeries to prevent or to help fix Ozempic face. It literally says that in the, in the, and trial is it's a surgery to offset Ozempic face because the fat you lose in your face to, you know, different types of beverages that have protein. So the fact that that has been exponentially growing in the number of clinical trials and for those of you that don't know exactly why does that matter? That means companies are paying big bucks to be able to have claims on their packaging relative to the ripple effect around GLP1. And so that, that is a huge signal that people are paying the big bucks to, to have these official FDA approved claims.
- [52:16]
A
Okay, well with that we gotta, we gotta fix this whole thing. I don't know if we can, but let's, let's do what we can. So navigating this really fluid landscape of GLP1s and the second third wave of adoption, if you. Okay, here's how we're going to fix this. If you are a male and you're taking GLP1s, you can be private about it. That's up to you. But start being more vocal about it. Those that, that feel like they, they want to share, number one, to normalize it, reduce the stigma around it and also to provide more consumer data and more understanding about what the balanced and the actual representation of the user base looks like. Because if, you know, if women are predominantly the marketing advertising face of it, the known consumer base, but then men are just more and more becoming, maybe not, not parity yet, but increase of adoption and the rate of adoption. Men sharing your stories and just making again, reducing stimul stigma, normalizing it and being more representational of the, the population that is on GLP1s, I think that would help pretty quickly to create some balance in the narrative and what people are seeing and potentially those that would benefit from it. Again, if you see someone who looks like you and, and is a proxy for you, you and there's a benefit to you to be advocating or saying take it or not. But maybe you, if you see someone who looks like you, maybe you're more drawn to look into the medical benefits for yourself. If you are a company that wants to use statistical data and consumer research, don't just grab the number and take it out of context and use it for your own evil intent. Really, you know, put it in, put it in the right context. Explain where it came from. Understand whether you have an actual right to use that data, to use that statistic, that pull point that we all want to stick on the front of packaging that shows ours is healthier, ours is better like grounded in something and if it's not yours, don't use it. It's. That's wrong. If you are a company, a food, packaged brand or restaurant, be responsible too. Don't take this moment to gouge customers and shrink meals to a third of what they used to be and charge double for them and put some kind of label on it. Don't do that. Just be good responsible citizens. If we're gonna, you know, if GLP1 mentality mindset behavior is around for the long haul, like yes, you can do a momentary cash grab, you could probably make some good short term revenue gains. You look at that and Say, oh good, we're onto something. No, that's not going to last forever. So let's all figure out how to manage this new normal and we'll see what we can get through together and just know this is, this is happening in real time. So Lisa's study is going to help us get a lot more understanding that we didn't have before. But you know, who knows, six months a year from now new formulations like we just, this is a changing dynamic. So let's all understand that we're, we're, you know, there's, we don't know what we don't know yet. Chino, does that sound about right? Did we fix it?
- [55:40]
C
I think once we see Lisa's new research report come out, I think that'll definitely add to this fix. I do think we've given some solutions. Companies you need to look at it outside of just kind of the food and beverage GLP1 label, friendly food friendly labels. You need to think about it from your employee benefits. You need to think about it as a holistic option. Having buy in options for employees that look to, you know, sign up to GLP1s is important. I also think that, you know, we need to have guardrails for a younger generation and making sure these direct to customer GLP1 providers are doing their job, you know, to make sure that it's in the right hands for, for people who actually need it from a health perspective. And I think if we can do everything that you shared Erin, and what's going to come out in Lisa's report, I do think that we've provided some solutions and I'll call it a fix.
- [56:43]
A
Great points. Thank you Chino. Lisa, did we leave things better than we found them?
- [56:47]
B
I believe so. I thank you guys because I learned I have some new perspectives. So I appreciate spending some time with you guys because it just helps me think differently to add different perspectives. So in my, I'd add this conversation will help me ask different questions, additive questions to even shed more light on some areas. But I think for me the biggest fix is that you, you cannot the building on what you said Aaron is you can't. The reason you can't grab that data is that range of how many are in your brand number one. But then what's the male female composition? And so you can't race to a solution to a problem that you don't understand. And I think that that's the big fix. It's everybody's like throw the label, throw the protein, let's do A bowl, whatever, whatever.
- [57:37]
C
But it can't be.
- [57:38]
B
You have to understand your consumers and your customers. And the ad from Chino, thank you very much. And your employees, because you can't race to the solutions. You cannot race to the solutions until you understand the problem or the opportunity. Because sometimes it's an opportunity, it's not a problem.
- [57:55]
A
Very true. Yeah. Thank you. Well, that's going to do it for this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. A big thank you to Chino and to Lisa W. Miller for giving us early access to her findings in the GLP1 blueprint. Lisa, how can companies and the rest of us navigate what's happening with GLP1s? And we want your report. How do we get it?
- [58:15]
B
Absolutely. So you can find my report on my website and it's lwm-associates.com and there's a tab that says GLP1. You click on that and you will get right there, pop in your email and the report is there. And for those that want to go deeper, they can just reach out and ask, ask further questions.
- [58:35]
A
That's wonderful. Thanks again, Lisa. Thank you to our listeners. Our fixaholics. We're not there yet, but we're getting close to the end of our season. Oh, I know. But here's the good part. We fix it. You're welcome. Has an end of season tradition where we, your fearless fixers, sit back and let you do all the fixing. Here's how it works. You send in a voice note, tell us who you are, share which company you'd want to fix, explain how you'd fix it and email it to us@myfixefixitpod.com keep it to like a minute or so, but just keep sending them our way and send them in@myfixefixitpod.com we can't wait to hear from you and we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.