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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride and we try to put them back better than we found them. Melissa and Chino, I can't believe it's the end of our third season. We're going to take a look back and a look forward and get to everything we can before our season wraps. You know, usually when you get to the third installment of something, you can tell the best ideas were already used up a while back, but that has not been the case here. You both continue to surprise me with new insights. I learned from you both all the time. And we've had such great guests this season. Brad Reese came on to talk with us at our Reese's and Hershey's. We had Zach Wichter from USA Today. We got to talk about Outer Space with Christopher Hearsey. I dug into Southwest Airlines with the former head of strategy, Reni Huey Lipton. There were a lot of standouts. We're going to take a look back at some of our favorites, see what we might have missed and give our season a proper send off before we jump into the next one, which we will do after a short break. Before we do that, Chino, any overall thoughts or reflections on this season? I know we covered a lot of
- [01:03]
B
topics we have and I think the word of the day always is a playbook. I think we've set up a few playbooks for a number of different companies and so I'm excited to dig into some of the things that we want to revisit.
- [01:19]
A
Excellent. Thank you. Chino. Melissa, how about you?
- [01:22]
C
I think that we've had an amazing season and one of the things I've loved the most is understanding that automation and AI isn't the answer for everything and that we have been able to bring really great expert perspective to the table and utilize, you know, innovative ways of thinking about the challenges that are ahead for a lot of people out there.
- [01:44]
A
Yeah, we've talked about AI a few different ways in emerging technology and encroaching technology and we keep finding, I think, new ways of, of tackling it and, and hopefully creating hope for hope for people that are scared of it and a balance and, and all those good things. Was it last season or the season before? We had our fixes, our hypothetical fixes quantified in dollar amounts and market value amounts and we're circling a billion dollars of value back then. So coming out to the end of season three, I'd say we're in those high figures at this point. I'm proud of us. Yes, well, it wouldn't be. We fixed it. You're welcome. Unless we fix something. Or maybe fix something again. I know we each brought something to the table, but before we introduce what we've each brought for each other as a show, we keep a folder of proposed fixes that have been submitted to our show and I pulled one for us today. So let's give that a listen. Hi, this is Rich and I'm the host of Shipwrecks and Sea Dogs, a maritime history podcast. I'm a homeowner and I go to places like Home Depot and Lowe's quite a bit and I would love to see a smart cart with a built in tablet that shows a map of the store and most efficient way to get to all the items on your list, show you real time inventory, a photo of the item prices, similar products, et cetera. It could sync with a mobile app so you could have a shopping list ready to go, projects loaded and offer project ideas, video tutorials, and even let you request assistance from an in store employee without having to search around for anyone. It could also have scan and pay technology right there built into the cart so you could skip the lines. This could work for other retailers as well. But I was really just thinking specifically about home improvement stores since they're so big and have billions of items. I've seen things similar to this, but not exactly like this and certainly not at home improvement stores.
- [03:31]
B
Thanks.
- [03:32]
A
All right, thank you, Rich. From Shipwrecks and Sea Dogs. Yeah, Home Depot, home improvement stores, you never can find anyone when you need them, right? You try to flag someone down and they say not my aisle or not my section or I'm busy. So a smart cart that knows more than we do. That sounds pretty good. What do you think?
- [03:53]
C
Well, I love this idea, but here's the twist. It already sort of exists. So Home Depot, I don't know if you all know this, has an app and has had this for years. You can voice search or literally take a photo of a part and it'll tell you the exact aisle and bay Lowe's does it. Sam's Clubs does it with a scan and go. Target does it, Ikea does it. Ikea really needs to do it. And Macy's even has a version of this that they used with IBM Watson many years ago. So it isn't that somebody should maybe build this, it's somebody already built this and most people have no idea. So then maybe the real question becomes, okay, if it exists, why isn't it like the way everyone shops there. And I think Rich brought up great examples like you and I probably have all done this, where you go into Home Depot looking for a very specific thing and you're lost. I mean, the aisles are huge. The bays are even huge. So I'm not even sure, sure that it really gets you to the exact space you're looking for. So this gets really interesting. You know, from, you know, my perspective from an ops lens, there's, you know, kind of two different versions of GPS in the store. You know, the easy one, which I think is on most of these apps, is just really like, look up where the inventory is, you go down that product aisle, but then you still have to kind of do a little searching and looking around. But I don't know that that's also what people are looking for. Like, I actually enjoy the conversation with somebody at Home Depot because they may tell me, oh, you're looking for that, but that's not actually going to fix your problem.
- [05:36]
B
I love that. And you know what? I'm not a handy person. I've been to Home Depot a few times in my life. And recently I bought an ottoman with like a storage compartment, and it was on sale because one of the hooks kind of fell off of it. So I took the full autumn to Home Depot and said, hey, can you help me figure this out? And I had chatgpt it ahead of time and, you know, asked the chat what it. What it suggested, and it did give a number of different things and colors, and the suggestions were great. But as you kind of suggested, Melissa speaking with the salesperson was actually more informative, and they were actually able to show me exactly where I need to do, do how I need to drill it in. Made sure that I also got wood glue because it was actually in a backing and they can actually see the product. And so what was, you know, a $400 ottoman on sale for 50 bucks with like a $10 fix, I was able to do going to Home Depot. But I do think there is something for having that automation, because I remember trying to find that person and to actually find the exact hook that I needed was at the very top. And so even for this salesperson, it took about 20 or 30 minutes later for them to actually find a ladder to go and grab it. And it became like a whole process. And so I do love this idea of having some sort of an automation where I can walk in, maybe I speak to a salesperson, and they can provide other examples, but using that to kind of go in Grab what I go and just check out, because there's also not that many cash registers, so I had to wait another 10, 20 minutes either. So if I can walk out with it and you're, you know, auto paying and I can grab and go would be ideal. So I really like this solution.
- [07:25]
C
Yeah, I even think that, like, when you were talking, it kind of brought some ideas to mind. I think we're kind of pulling on this thread about how to fix this because I do think the tech is important. But understanding from an inventory and operations perspective, especially at Home Depot, you've got a lot of specials going on and seasonal things. And so keeping that map up to date is going to be very difficult. And so, you know, pinpointing it to like the third bay up, like to your point, Chino, which is not accessible by somebody of a normal size. Right. You know, and you can't find anything that's a problem. So maybe it's about having more accessibility to the associates that work there. So maybe having like literally somebody with a little desk, not even a desk, but like a little station in front of each aisle. So, like, you could come in, you know, you need to go to aisle 14. But as you get there, you see somebody standing there and you say, hey, can I tell you my problem? This is what I'm looking for. This is what I think I need. And then they can tell you, yeah, let me walk you over here and let me bring the little portable, like, hooky thing so I can grab it for you because it's way high up. Or they can tell you, oh, can we dig deeper into that? Because I'm not sure that you actually need that pipe. You might be looking for something else. So I love, you know, like these real life examples because I do think it's something that helps with the experience and helps with everything. But the solution might be really old school, which is put your associates in places where you can find them.
- [09:05]
A
I love that too. And they do have associates strategically placed around the store, like, you know, in flooring or in the key. The key station where you go get your key made and paint made. Yeah, but I do like. I like the idea of floaters, or I guess they're stationed. They're not. They're the opposite of floaters, but stationary employees that are all purpose. Because what happens to me is I'll. I'll download the app and I'll have it at the ready, and then it'll say aisle nine and. And then I'll just pace back and forth on aisle nine and say I need help anyway. So I wind up flagging someone down. So having someone nearby and accessible would be really helpful. But I'm not, you know, not. I don't want to take anyone's jobs. But I'm not anti automation either, you know, if it creates efficiencies and lowers prices or does something better for all of us. I think their self checkout's really efficient. At Home Depot that's helped quite a bit. You can get in and out very quickly. So I'm not anti progress but there's something about those. I like the smart carts or the smart apps or some. But there's, there does reach a point where you do you just need somebody and you know, like you said, you need someone who knows more, knows more than the app does.
- [10:12]
C
And Aaron, from a brand perspective, don't you feel like they need to do a better job? If they've had this for a couple years or more than a couple years, then it's not really necessarily the tech, it's that they haven't really shared that. So maybe when you walk up they should have a sandwich board. I mean something simple that just has the QR code and says looking for something and then you just, you know, and, or did, you know. Right. You know, those kinds of fun things. And you know, they could even make it fun. They could make it like a scavenger hunt. Right. Where you could get like a really good deal. Like if you scan the QR code they'll say this, these are the specials of the week, weekend or whatever like that. Right.
- [10:52]
A
Well, mostly you're the experienced person but they also the, the mobile or the app interface experience has to be better than the person because.
- [11:00]
B
Right.
- [11:00]
A
You know, you ever go to a deli and you try to go up to the counter and they say no, use that kiosk over there. And then you spend 20 minutes on the kiosk trying to figure out how to put mustard on your sandwich.
- [11:10]
C
Yes.
- [11:11]
A
And then so same with, with Home Depot. Finally Larry or Vanessa walks over and you're like, thank goodness you're here. I've been struggling so that app adoption would have to be outpace what the human connection would be, you know, in terms of efficiency. And I got what I wanted and I'm in and out and it's, I came in for one thing and now I left with something better and I saved money. Like is that happening on their app? I don't, you know, I don't know. But that could be a friction point.
- [11:40]
B
It could be And I just, you know, thinking about the consumer behavior. Right. Home Depot is a really unique store because it's not close. Right, right. I kind of know what size I am anywhere where Home Depot, it's real life solutions for real life problems.
- [11:53]
C
Right.
- [11:54]
B
And it's using tactile feeling to actually sort it out. And that's why the human experience is helpful. But where I think tech can help and automation is actually when it comes to training these salespeople, I think by nature when you're at Home Depot, you're trying to fix something. And so speaking to someone that you feel is trusted is really helpful. But why not arm them with a catalog of, you know, different fixes and different opportunities as like training. So, you know, when I came up to the salesperson and I said, hey, I need to get a new hinge and I thought I needed this specific one. They could have turned into their AI because they can't fix everything. They don't know everything like us fixers. But they can use that as like a tool for training so that they can come with different solutions and you know, either upsell again, I bought the wood glue it was needed, or show an alternative or say, hey, I can see that you're working on a planter for your backyard to put herbs in. Hey, did you know that you can do it in this different angle or have you tried this? And arming them with different suggestions they can give to the team is a great way to help train the people and from a business perspective, again, help upsell at the end of the day. So I would say that would be where I would lean into AI if I were Home Depot.
- [13:19]
C
Yeah, I really feel like you hit it. Like, I feel like the fix is hybrid. It's not just the tech, but it's also the experience and the associates that they have working for them and the resources, because those are really important. I mean, I think we've all had great experiences there when we've been able to find somebody to help us as well as, you know, when you're easily going in and get, getting something and getting out. But again, I think that there is a version of a fix that is hybrid that can really help and kind of address like, I think what, you know, Rich was saying in his, in his suggestion was really like, how do you streamline this and make it as easy as possible? And I think that sometimes that ease you have to think about what is needing to be solved and fixed. You know, when you go to someplace like that. And I do believe that there is a way to do that together with both of those.
- [14:14]
A
Yeah, no, I totally agree. And you go to Home Depot for a reason. You know, maybe. Maybe you need a screwdriver, but maybe there's. There's a problem. You need to talk. You just need to talk it through with someone and then they help you figure it out. So you're there physically for a reason. And count the number of times I said I just, I'm just going to go to Home Depot because you need that experience. So technology. Yes. Smart carts, sure, bring them on. Some of this stuff might already exist and people just don't have the awareness of them. Or maybe they're not fully replacing one to one that human experience. So can we look at using the technology for what it's good at and then supplementing or doing a handoff for where people are just better? And we'll. We'll have the best of both. That's our fix. Rich, you got us talking. Thank you for that. We're one and done. I like this where we're headed. Let's move on. Melissa, what did you bring for us?
- [15:10]
C
Okay, so remember when we talked hired or hustled? That was episode nine. That was the one about people getting preyed on in a brutal job market. Fake recruiters. Paid coaching packages that were really just a toll booth. People getting charged money just to maybe talk to someone. The whole point was candidates had basically stopped being the customer and started being the product. And the advice we gave was pretty simple. Real recruiters don't charge you verify before you trust anybody. And if feels urgent or too good to be true, it probably is. That's a red flag, not an opportunity. Here's the fun part. We were talking about people losing a few hundred bucks or you know, to fake coaching packages. That feels almost sweet. Now the FTC has as reported job scam losses went from $90 million in 2020 to over 500 million in 2024. And this year, one report says scams starting on social media alone hit 2.1 billion. That's eight times what it was in 2020. And that's just what people actually report. Can you imagine all the people that don't? The FTC thinks less than 1 in 10 victims even bother. They're embarrassed. They don't want to say anything about it. Right? But it's not just more of the same. It's a completely different animal. Now we're talking deep fake video interviews. Like someone's run a real time face swap and pretending to be an actual exec on Your zoom call reports of that jumped over 1300% in a year. That's also fake onboarding software people getting told to install on their computers after they get hired. Except it's really malware and is quietly draining their bank accounts. Like really? This is crazy. And here's the twist we definitely didn't see coming. It's just not candidates getting scammed anymore. Companies are getting scammed by fake candidates too. Checker found almost a quarter of companies already caught identity fraud on a new hire. Amazon says they've blocked over 1800 fake applicants, some of them state sponsored. This has gotten so bad that Google McKinsey brought back mandatory in person interviews in 2026 just to catch these deep fakes. So maybe my favorite stat of the bunch is a monster survey this year that found 95 of job seekers have run into a shady offer. And almost half say they're now skeptical of basically all recruiter outreach. Chino.
- [17:50]
B
Ouch.
- [17:51]
C
Even real recruiters. So yeah, we call this episode Hired or Hustled like it was just a rough patch in a tough market. Turns out we were just describing a little calm before something got even worse. So really, what we know now, what we, I mean, gosh, are, you know, what are we focusing on? So like, should we have focused on candidates getting burned or companies getting burned? Any ideas? Chino, thoughts on this?
- [18:21]
B
It's. It's so funny. I read my own little boutique recruitment firmware. Not the Amazons, but I've actually experienced a fake interview myself where I'm like, this is not real. And I asked a few questions and I asked the person to move and it was like, oh, this is clearly a deep fake. This happens. This is real.
- [18:36]
C
Really? Oh my God.
- [18:38]
B
Yes, it's very real. And the other challenge too, and you'll see it on LinkedIn a lot and actually on companies pages where they're now actually stating, hey, the only communication you'll ever get from us is from an an email that looks like this. Anything outside of this is not real. We'll never ask you for, you know, your sin or personal numbers identification numbers. We'll never ask you to pay us like they have this on their company pages now. Almost any. Every company is doing this because of the scamming that's going on in the impersonation. I've been impersonated too. And that has been going on. That has been going on for years. It has. It's not a new thing, but I would say with the catalyst of AI, it's taken a whole different beast and I think the difference, I think we really focus on the candidate experience and how to watch out. And I think again, go to someone you trust, use referrals. Again, I'm a recruiter, I work with some companies that I can't actually ever mention their name until you sign an NDA. And there's a process around that. But again, I'm never asking for anyone for money. No recruiter ever should. But what we can look into next time is the other way of when the companies are getting scanned. We didn't touch too much on when there's fake candidates. And that's a whole other beast.
- [19:59]
A
That's a whole other side. Yeah, for sure. Chino. We, in that episode we focused on ethically dubious companies that kind of position themselves to sit at the intersection of candidates and the companies that are hiring and they're maybe skimming off the top, maybe just building a data bank of monthly subscribers. But what touched the nerve at the time was how celebratory they were about it. So those, those middle market companies were so self bro. Congratulating on. Look at our run rate, look at our revenue. We've been around for 10 months. Look at how many subscribers we have. We're building this mini empire off the backs of people that just now have another barrier and a threshold to jump through that they'll never reach the company that they, they want to work for. You know, do you have a company that needs talent? You have a talent pool. They're never, most likely would these companies get in the middle of it for profiteering. They're never going to talk to one another. So that's what really, you know, hit a nerve back then. But this is a whole new level. This is just pure exploitation.
- [21:02]
C
Yeah. And I think the other thing is that, you know, when we were talking about this, Chino, one of the things we said is trust your gut. Right. Like we said, don't pay a recruiter, trust your gut. Does that really hold up anymore? Because that was great advice against maybe a typo filled email, right. Coming from a Hotmail account or something like that. Right. It's basically useless against a real time deep fake on video.
- [21:32]
A
Right.
- [21:33]
C
And so maybe the advice needs to move from instinct to actually verification. Go verify for yourself every time through a channel, through, you know, calling the, calling the front desk of the company, you know, just, just to check to make sure these are real jobs that are open or, you know, this is a real company. It's not a forefront, unfortunately. Maybe the new rule is really simpler and colder. If a company won't do a real interview, you walk right this episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation, analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business.
- [22:21]
B
The result?
- [22:22]
C
Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more@accenture.com Spotify
- [22:32]
B
this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything
- [22:39]
C
on the web, like restoring a vintage
- [22:41]
B
motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini in Chrome is here for it,
- [22:48]
C
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- [22:50]
B
There's no place like Chrome.
- [22:52]
C
Check responses set up required Compatibility and availability Various 18
- [22:59]
B
I work mostly remotely, right? And so it's really hard. I think we touched on something and if I were to give anyone a piece of advice, there's some, there's a nugget there that you had Melissa around verifying the source, right? Calling is different because people aren't in the office anymore. So that's another business off. But you know where everybody is LinkedIn. And if I'm a hiring manager and I've spoken to you, or I'm interviewing you and you message me on LinkedIn, yes, maybe I have 300 LinkedIn messages, but I know that I've spoken to you so I'm going to actually connect with you. And I think that is a tool that you can use to verify. LinkedIn as well has their own verifying methods so that people aren't creating fake accounts. You can see from their interactions, you know, from a company sponsored page, you know, you can't really just say hey, I work anywhere. You have to do that. So I think that is the best way for candidates to do this where they know Again, of course there are fake companies that are posted out there, but this is where again, trusting your gut of those companies are often asking you for money or your personal identification. So don't give that to them. A recruiter will never ever, ever ask you to do those things. So never give that to them. The only time that gets tricky is now where you know we have the deep fakes in an offer stage and where you do send them your address and you do send them your bank account so they can give you money. That is where you need to verify and at that stage, if you haven't had some form of an in person there, because even in remote or some type of an onboarding in person or Touchpoint or a LinkedIn message where you can verify this person's address, that is where you need to watch out. That's what I would say the watch out is. And lastly, for companies like I've mentioned, include a disclaimer on your company page of what the real address is, because anyone can spoof an address at this stage. And so what does that look like? Identifying what your actual hiring process is and, you know, maybe create a code word or something. But it's now on the companies to do their due diligence, to protect the candidates, even if they're not working with them or they'll never be employed there. It's your job because it is your brand that's on the line.
- [25:20]
C
I love that. I mean, so, I mean, when we left this a year ago, it was, you know, the grounds really completely shifted under us. And, you know, you are right in the mix of this. So I love how you've been able to speak to this more directly. And I do think that the verify process is more intense than what we were saying, which was go with your gut instinct. Right? You know, like, you should know, you know, about these companies, companies. And like you said, even checking someone on LinkedIn, like I've, I have people reaching out to me all the time about the podcast or about different things. And when you go to their LinkedIn profile, if you see that there's nothing really there and they're, you know, they've only had connections with so many, nobody's following them. They've only, you know, they have one job history kind of thing. You can pretty much bet that that's just been a created, you know, person at this point. And so I do think that, like you said, there's verifying through company websites, there's verifying through connection, which is the most important thing. And I do agree that you just have to be really vigilant and protect everything, as if somebody is going for your personal information, your personal bank accounts.
- [26:35]
A
Okay, I've got to fix, but, you know, you have to validate this and tell me if it'll work because there are bad actors on LinkedIn too. But I think we're going to make LinkedIn a lot of money. So why does LinkedIn stop at the matchmaking part of the equation? Why can't LinkedIn be end to end? So not only do you meet a potential employer employee on LinkedIn but you do your interviewing through a LinkedIn video, you know, video setup, your multi round interviewing, your, your screening and you're contracting and negotiations, it's all within the LinkedIn ecosystem and it's verified every step of the way. You can report bad behavior and it's, there's parameters around it and the oversight, it's all owned by LinkedIn. What do you think?
- [27:24]
B
I love that idea. And there's a semi version of like the recruitment process called Recruiter Lite on LinkedIn that a ton of recruiters use. The challenge that I would say is that for most companies and for the Amazons of the world, sure, LinkedIn is not cheap, right. And so for most companies being able to kind of buy in, even if you have like a hundred people, it's still a pretty nominal cost per year to do that. And the other challenge here is it's more so the candidates, right? Can you verify that? Anyone? It's, it works when you're verifying from the company. But the big challenge now that we find is from the candidate perspective. And there are a lot of fake candidate profiles unfortunately. And so I think that is where the miss is. But I do think that there's a nugget there of if we can have a verified process, leverage LinkedIn to do that. And again, as a company, you know, you need to like, you know, maybe you hire a consultant, maybe you do your due diligence to make sure that that happens. And government, hey, the, in Canada we have, or in Ontario specifically, we have now recruitment laws to, to help protect a lot of candidates who've been scammed by these people. And as a recruiter I have to pay a fee and get licensed and certified. And as a company, if you're working with recruiters in Ontario, you can only work with certified recruiters, otherwise you get fined. Simple as that. And so if you're a solid recruiter, you have your license and you've been verified. So that's another route that we can take for larger companies who are working with third party recruiters. But I do think visibility into your process, hiring process, you know, verifying through your connections and through LinkedIn and at the same time still trusting your gut. I will never not say that because sometimes, you know, you can have a deep fake of, you know, maybe you're meeting this panel and none of us are actually there. And so we want to make sure that we can verify that in some way.
- [29:30]
C
Well, I think Erin, you picked something that we can actually put on the docket for next Season because I think that's a great idea. And also it kind of gets to what is the responsibility of recruiting software and tech. So like Greenhouse Workday, all of these that. I mean, how can they validate everything that's going out there? And I think there's a lot that can be kind of. We could talk. I mean I think that's a whole episode right there.
- [30:00]
A
Oh, for sure. Yeah. It's like with file sharing and peer to peer is. It's just our software versus. Wait a minute. I was contacted through your platform that we could have a whole conversation on that. So. All right, we'll put a pin in it. But great topic to bring to the table. I'll go next. So mine is a story that came and went. We got a lot of requests for it at the time to cover it, which just didn't make it happen. That's right. I'm talking about Burger Gate. This was from back in February 2026, when the McDonald's CEO Chris Kaczymski posted a video of himself trying out the delicious Big Arch burger. You probably remember it. It's so memeable. It probably lives rent free in your mind like a gif. But if you don't remember, the guy acted like he'd never eaten any food before. He took the most awkward and underwhelming bite of this brand new, delicious, luscious burger that you can imagine. And it followed it by the lukewarmist enthusiasm known to man. The whole thing was a PR nightmare. And as this taping, he's still chairman and CEO of McDonald's. I wish him good luck and all the best. But I guess the fallout hasn't been too bad. But my question is, should all CEOs be put into the spotlight like that? Was that fair? Maybe it was an off day for him. Maybe some CEOs are better suited to the back of the boardroom in the the business and behind the scenes and just aren't meant to be the front person. But let's say your company is the size of a McDonald's and people want to see who's running this thing, but your CEO just isn't great as that public face. What do you do about it?
- [31:33]
B
You coach them. There's no world in which if I'm a CEO, chief executive officer of any company, no matter what it is, if I can't get in front of anybody, and if I'm asking you to buy this product and as the head of this company, I'm not willing to try it or I don't even like, my own brand that I'm trying to sell. There's never a space for that. I just. As a customer, I think they lost again. I don't know the numbers there, but it definitely rubbed people the wrong way. And I know a few people. And the viral moment of people going to Burger King and Wendy's and all of their CEOs jumping in and saying, look. Look at how much we love our burgers. Like, come here. Because clearly, you know, maybe you can't trust McDonald's.
- [32:17]
C
Yeah. What's interesting about Kaczynski's Instagram is that his Instagram following has apparently grown by tenfold. Maybe not for the right reasons, as Chino mentioned. Right. It's maybe a little bit of mockery, and people want to see what he's going to actually do. But having more followers than any of his closest CEO competitors, even if it's a mockery, is that actually how you want it to go? You know, do you want. Does that change the calculus, Aaron? Like, do you feel like, from a brand perspective, it's okay that, you know, everybody knows that he's. He's this goober, goofy kind of guy that's the CEO of McDonald's, and then he went and did it with chicken nuggets. I mean, like, it's like. It's like a. It's like, is this a joke, like. Or is he really doing this right? Because I agree with you, what you said, Chino. Like, you know, experts and PR specialists would always say that your advice is basically not to make it about you as a CEO, but to make it about your product, your employees, your. Whatever services you're selling, highlight their stories instead of your own personal brand. And I don't think he was trying to create a personal brand. Honestly, I think that's what he was trying to do. It's just that he was so awkward that it kind of blew up. So I. I think there are versions, Aaron, where the CEO as a face works, but it's someone that actually kind of, you know, really fits the whole vibe. And this is kind of like a joke now. So I'm not sure that's what McDonald's wanted, but that's what they got.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, it takes me back in the. I think it was the late 80s, early 90s. They had. The Disney movie of the week was on every week, and it was. Was hosted by Michael Eisner. And if I getting it right, I think he's the one that insisted on being the one to get up in front, you know, he's running Disney. He's going to introduce the Disney movie. And he didn't. My understanding, he didn't test well. He scared people. He's, you know, he had a certain demeanor that it didn't tee you up to watch the cartoon afterward. It's. He was a little icy, you know, so that didn't go over well. But with this case, it's. No, you got me thinking, like they had a moment that they. If he was self aware and willing to laugh at himself, they could have owned that moment. Moment. And I guess it worked out anyway because like I said, he still got the job. But I'm just picturing this campaign where he's watching, you know, the, the most intense spectacle of a movie in 3D. And he's just kind of sitting there like, all right, this is all right. You know, like a little non plus. And then he's in line like in like a Formula one race car. And he's just going, okay. And then everything's just kind of okay, you know. And then he goes back to the burger and takes another bite. He's like, I took another bite. This burger is incredible.
- [35:07]
B
Oh, Aaron, come on. That's brilliant, right?
- [35:12]
C
And it could have been one where physically, like, you know, he had that. His polo shirt buttoned all the way up to the top. Like, I don't even know what that is. Like, yeah. And like, like by the time he got to the third one where he's actually having another bite of the Big Mac, he's like, shirt unbuttoned, you know, hair is all messed up. You know what I mean? Like, I love that idea. Like, okay, I think that that's to kind of live into it and make it feel like I, you know, that's what people want. People want you to not take yourself so seriously. Like, come on. You know. And like, I think that's the thing that, like, you know, when people make a mockery of it, I'm. I feel like it's. It's hurtful to him, right. Personally, and I feel like. But they could do it in a way that's fun, you know, all those kinds of things.
- [36:01]
A
So, yeah, I don't know. I didn't think of that before, but that it would have closed the chapter. You would have loved the guy.
- [36:06]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:07]
B
That would have been an ongoing bit, right? It's like, you think of, you know, the commercials where it's like that stand in, like, who is the, you know, the Old Spice guy or the, you know, all of it. It could have been a bit. And I think that's where they missed the mark there. Is there still an opportunity? I don't know, for them. And I think the lesson here is, like, lean in, right? Like, you know, a mistake happened. Are we gonna, like, skirt away from that? No, you lean into it. And I think if he were. If they were able to own that a little more, that would have been so much more powerful. And maybe that is a commercial. And if they do, credit goes to Eren there, because I think that is a brilliant idea. And I think that could still be executed because it's still somewhat recent, even though it's the end of season three.
- [36:55]
C
I love that idea. Aaron. Actually, I think that, you know, then, you know, Chino, we may not have gotten subway sandwiches. Maybe we can get, like, chicken nuggets for life. I don't know.
- [37:05]
B
Chicken nuggets for life. A McFlurry. Like, come on.
- [37:09]
C
I'd go for a sausage McMuffin with egg and a sweet tea.
- [37:12]
B
That's.
- [37:13]
C
I'm all over it, so.
- [37:16]
A
Well, yeah, you know, you're right. There's a life expectancy. Like, you can't go back and manufacture a moment way down the road and say, remember me? I'm the guy that didn't like our burgers. Well, now I do, you know, but, yeah, say there. There's a. There's a time period where it's still fresh in the public imagination. You still have unfinished feelings about this guy that may have impacted your feelings about McDonald's. Maybe there is still something to it. I'd love to see it. I love when, you know, someone falls on stage and then that turns into. That's what they do. They fall every time on stage, you know, because we love it. So it's a prep.
- [37:49]
C
Yes.
- [37:49]
A
Yeah, there's something to it. The guy could, you know, make that his. His thing. He's the non plus guy. And it turns out he was wrong the first time. He's non plussed about everything except McDonald's.
- [38:02]
C
I'm loving it. Oh, my gosh.
- [38:07]
A
Gina, your turn. Take us home with what you brought for us.
- [38:10]
B
Well, to no one's surprise, my podcast that I'd love to revisit from this season was our 711 episode where we talked about their attempt to bring the viral Japanese egg sandwich into North America. And I even did some boots on the ground research and went to my local 711 and picked up one of these sandwiches that was in Dingy Corner, a little bit warm. I ate it. Didn't get sick, but it definitely tarnished my experience compared to what I experienced in. In Japan. And so our takeaway from this episode was that although it was a viral moment, the problem was they were not really thinking about the consumer behavior. Our solution really was they needed to test in smaller markets first, and they need to think about the entire customer experience. No one wants to eat a warm egg salad. And I think that is where they miss the mark. And we did this episode back in March of this year. But as of April, funny enough, Seven Eleven's parent company announced that they were closing 645 stores in North America. As of 2026, they're still opening 205, but they're primarily closing down the bulk of their stores. And I think the bigger issue here was not that they've exported this product in this viral moment, but they never created the habit around that. And so I think it's really tricky when you bring a culturally specific product into a new market. And I also feel that one of the big lessons here is that that you can't just copy and paste in a different place. So would love to touch on that. I don't know if any of you had a chance to go to 711 and try one of their. The egg salads before they went away.
- [40:18]
A
You know, I went chasing the egg salad. I went looking for it, and it wasn't there. I don't know if some. Some stores still have them, but whenever, wherever I went, I couldn't find it.
- [40:28]
C
They say that they did do a bigger rollout and that Canada was secondary. So I want to ask you, Chino, about this. So the US Version got some real pushback. People noticed that they kept the crust on the bread, the filling, played it very safe. It was a little sweet, but a little milder than the real deal. Than what, you know, the. The one in Japan. If people had tried both like yourself. And they actually said that they. That 711 was listening because Canada course corrected. Is that true? Did. Is. Was there crust on your.
- [41:07]
B
Yeah, listen, yes and no. So I picked up one sandwich, and I'll tell you this. I walked into the store excited, ran over, because I lived off those egg salad sandwiches when I was in Japan. And so I came there, I went into the back section where there's, like, the fridges, which is where you would expect the egg salad to the sandwich. And I picked one up and I noticed crust on it. And I thought, hmm, this isn't great. I picked another one that also noticed crest. But when I went to the front of the store, to ring out because I said, you know what, for the pod, I will fix this. I need to do this research. Let me try this out. And when I went to the counter, I noticed there was four or five egg salad sandwiches sitting in a tray of ice. Again, a little sketchy. Is that the customer experience that you had in Japan? Absolutely not. Did I swap mine out and eat it anyway? Yes, I did. Did I get sick? No, but it was that experience of having to like switch my egg salad sandwiches really didn't make me feel great about what it was. And so I think there wasn't that much quality assurance as compared to in Japan where again, every single day in my like 21 day trip ate one every single day. Not once did I ever see any egg salad sandwiches with any crust on it. They all looked fairly identical, same and delivered the exact same taste. And so we touched on in the episode too about the behavior. Right. Going to a convenience store was a part, is a part of Japan's culture. It's where a lot of people get their bulk of their groceries versus in, you know, North America. It's a convenience store, it's a quick shop. You're in a pinch, you're running, you're grabbing gas. And so I think that's where they missed the mark. And unfortunately it has not taken off the same way. And they've now starting to close stores down. And I don't, you know, the closest 7:11 to me now is about 45 minutes away. So I don't think I'll ever get one in North America again.
- [43:14]
C
Well, but I do think that the crust feedback is actually a great op story for 711 in that they actually did listen to what customers were saying in the United States first. They, from what my research says, it took them a while to find a Canadian bread vendor that actually had like that soft, milky bread, you know, kind of texture that they're looking for. So to your point, it's maybe not so much about the taste, it's about presentation. And like, gosh, am I really going to go into 711 and get something that's on a tray of ice? Like, what the heck? It's like a slushie and a sandwich. I don't know what that, what that is. So, you know, so it's, it's like they, they were listening, they were trying. But then to your point, this whole culture around convenience stores is something that you can't just have happen overnight. Especially in a culture where for us the convenience store was really like, okay, we're Stopping by to get a bag of ice and we go inside and get a pack of gum and a lotto ticket. Right? Like that was kind of our 711 experience. And so it wasn't like, oh, this is where I'm gonna go after work. Because this is where I go every day to get my meal right or get. Or before work and I get my drink or you know, that kind of so and 247 in a more, you know, convenience store way. So I do think that there are some components of it that they tried to get right and they're still kind of evolving. But I do think that the biggest miss is that they can't really fix that culture because that's not the culture that we have in terms of convenience stores.
- [45:02]
A
And they didn't take our advice and evolve and come up with something else like, okay, go with the food idea, but turn it into a gourmet barista bar or turn it into, I think I said peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, which has food allergy issues and nut butter issues and things like that. But something where you don't need fresh ingredients on hand all the time. Put in a Wetzel's pretzels. But. But even like Thrifties had the ice cream counter for so many years and had that feel the old fashioned drugstore. And. And I don't think those are around anymore either because you had to either staff employees behind the counter or have cross functional employees that had to run back and forth all the time. So I don't know if this was one that was doomed to start to say we're going to have a fresh ingredient or fresh sandwich with fresh ingredients all the time in an American 7:11 or if there's still a way to go about it. But this experiment didn't seem to work out for them.
- [45:56]
C
Yeah, I feel like they have to target it. Like I feel like they need to open, fully open a 711 that is like the branding, everything should be Japanese. So that like it's very clear that this is the experience you're going to get when you go, go to this 7 11. And I think that they target like large metropolitan areas that have this idea that this culture, right. They're all into that, that culture right now. So that like you start out, you know, in Los Angeles and K town, Japantown in San Francisco, those place in New York City, what, you know, where they have that already. And so then you, you can build out, you know, a whole Tokyo experience. Right. Like I want to go to the Tokyo 7 11. I don't want to go to this, the 711 that's got gas and a Slurpee.
- [46:49]
B
Exactly. And people would travel for that because it is viral, it is a great product. And on that note that you were talking about Aaron, in terms of other opportunities, I think they were also just focused on the wrong 711 viral hit from Japan. The other big one is their coffees in a cup. They're iced coffees, which is a lot easier to translate because in America, in North America everybody's grabbing their coffee from somewhere, whether it's Starbucks or drink obsessed. Yep, we're drink obsessed. Like we know that we use convenience stores often to grab a quick and go like a Red Bull or whatever
- [47:26]
C
and you're willing to pay $8 ex right.
- [47:29]
B
Like so like that was the Ms. I think if they were to do this again in the other 205 stores that they're opening is looking at little segments and saying okay, what translates in terms of like the actual product and like the logistics of getting what you need and delivering the same quality that you do in Japan? Coffee. That's about it right now. And I love the idea Melissa of creating Japan like or focused seven Elevens that people travel to. So maybe there's one in every big city. Please do one in Toronto. That's where I am. I would travel. I do miss that egg salad because otherwise I have to go back to Japan and I don't mind doing that. But I would really love it and I would give you more of my money 7:11 if you can translate that. But I think to change that consumer behavior is looking at what's already happening which is coffee drinking and looking at that viral product instead of the one that was really difficult to kind of recreate.
- [48:31]
C
I think having that as a pop up experience too and like cross cultural things like Shohei Ohtani showing up and you know, picture, you know or like all those kinds of things. Like I, I do think that's would be amazing and like even partnering with like the Japanese dollar store. I don't know what it's called but it is fabulous. You know, like I just go in there just to. I didn't know you could get erasers that small, but whatever. So I just love that idea. Chino. I think that again I think focusing it and like maybe re redoing that and then kind of seeing how, how it would make sense because I do think it would be a shame to have a 711 Tokyo experience in rural South Dakota. 711 if that's not what they want there Right. Like they want something else there, then of course you're not going to make money on that. So like, that doesn't even make sense. But if you had it, it, you know, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, they really, it was an experience and people went there, then that would be really cool.
- [49:35]
A
Different themes. If there's a Star wars theme, 711 somewhere and then a tiny little food court theme, 711 that does have fresh food. Like we, yes. We would travel for these things. Things, we would road trip to them. We'd stop on the way. We'd see a billboard, you know, yeah, let's create, create more excitement in our lives.
- [49:52]
B
Everybody loves an experience and I think that's what they need to remember. It's the experience of Japanese. 711 is what makes it successful.
- [49:59]
C
Yep.
- [49:59]
A
Well, they're closing stores, they're opening a few more, so there's still hope for them. Let's, let's do this. 7:11. We, we gotcha. Well, thanks, Chino. Thank you, Chino and Melissa. I think about everything we've accomplished and I'm continually thinking, thrilled to be fearless fixers together with you both. I can't tell you how many times I've heard from listeners, oh, Melissa's amazing or Chino's amazing or they're both incredible. I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm right there with you. Either of you. Any, any final thoughts for the season?
- [50:29]
C
Well, thank you for bringing us together. I think this has been one of the greatest things experiences I've had. I love fixing things and I think that I've learned so much from all of you as well as from our guests this season. I think we've had some fantastic guests that really brought the fire and made. Challenged us to think about things in different ways. And I'm always surprised when we, when we leave a episode and feeling like, gosh, I really want to know more about that topic. I think that's we, we've done really well when we've done that.
- [51:03]
B
Yeah. And I just, just to echo what you shared, Melissa, it's, you know, being with the two of you every single week is being incredible. And again, exploring different things. I feel like we all get to like ping pong off of each other and learn a lot. And again, the guests this season, like, really appreciate your time. But of course, our listeners for sticking with us for three seasons, you know, it's really, it's, we do this because of you and we really appreciate all of that and we're excited for the new season.
- [51:36]
A
Thanks, Gino. Thanks, Melissa. Yeah, I'm excited too. Before we go, and I'm glad you mentioned guests and listeners because before we go, we've got an awesome lineup of topics and guests. Also, for season four, I think we're going back to outer space with our topics. We're going to talk sports, which we haven't really devoted an episode to yet. We're also going to predict the future and we're here to fix all of it because that's what we do. Not really going away. You'll be able to catch up on a few of our favorite episodes with updates from me until we come back with new ones. So make sure you subscribe to our show next week. You'll enjoy a recent episode we hand picked for you. Keep an eye out for new ones very soon and we will see you next season. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.