B (3:28)

Oh, thank you, Erin. It's great to be here with your dream team. And I'm super excited to be here on the eve of the biggest annual event in media, really the one time of the year people really want to talk about advertising. Right. So. So it's a delight. I'm thrilled to be part of the conversation. One other thing that did not make the official bio, I am originally from Seattle, Washington, so I am morally obligated to say go Hawks.

A (4:01)

We'Ll take it. And I'm glad you mentioned it. We're taping this portion before the show, so we don't know the outcome yet. And we don't know the commercial outcome yet. But we will and we'll get to that later.

B (4:12)

No, we still have hope on all fronts. Great game and some great commercials.

A (4:16)

It's anyone's game. Thanks, Annika. I can already, I can tell you're going to be instrumental to this conversation and we're going to get into it with you. Let's do that. But Melissa, we got ads as entertainment. We have millions and millions of dollars on the line. What are we going to fix today?

C (4:32)

Well, super bowl ads used to be a big TV buy. Now they're a luxury good. In 2010, a 30 second spot was just over $3 million. Now you're flirting with 7 to 8 million for the same 30 seconds before you've even paid. Ben Affleck shot anything or cut the social edits. By the time you add production, talent, digital, a lot of products and brands are quietly putting 15 to 30 million behind what is on paper, half a minute of attention. So how did we get here? The super bowl is one of the last Everybody in the room at once. Moments left in media. A hundred plus million people, same game, same three hours, no skipping. And the ads stopped being just ads. We rank them, we rewatch them on YouTube, we argue about them at work on Monday or on LinkedIn. Once your media buy becomes a cultural ritual, the spreadsheet stops being the only voice in the room. So in terms of concentrated money, this is about as intense as it gets. Broadcasters hauling something like 650 to 800 million dollars of in game ad revenue in a single night holiday and back to school might be bigger seasons overall, but nothing else forces that much budget into a tiny window at those prices. So the real question isn't are we spending a lot? That's what we already know. It's are we over concentrating a lot of money on one very flashy coin flip? And there are those storybook wins that keep CMOS coming back. Duncan is the modern poster child. One Affleck Drive Thru Spot airs once and suddenly you've got billions of impressions, a jolt of early year sales and a whole Dun Kings universe of menu items and merch. T Mobile's latest super bowl hit didn't just test well. It actually drove more than 10 times the engagement. And the average big game ad people actually searched, clicked and checked them out right after it ran. This is what you want. Those are the chart agencies put in every pitch deck when they say you deserve your own super bowl ad moment. But there's also the graveyard that we don't put in the deck. The crypto bowl class, the overfunded apps, and the direct to consumer darlings that bought their way into the game and then quietly disappeared. Some just flamed out. FTX reportedly paid around $6.5 million for its 22 Super bowl spot, with Larry David positioning itself as the future of finance within the same year it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy with estimated liabilities in the tens of billions. And the ad is now essentially a museum piece of peak bubble energy. So when people try to measure this over time, the awkward truth is a meaningful chunk of super bowl spend is inefficient. Too much money in for too little lasting business out the league. And the networks have a sure thing. The advertisers are the ones gambling. So that's the tension we're going to live in and try to fix. Today, super bowl ads are more expensive, more measurable, and louder than ever. We're not just asking was it funny? We're asking was it worth it? And what does worth it even mean when you just paid $8 million for half a minute. So here we go. Let's talk.

A (8:04)

All valid points. Yeah, well, I did a little bit of fun. Let's put that 8 million. We'll start with the 8 million but not all the production budgets. Let's put it into perspective. What you know, you're sitting there with your ad budget. You're trying to be responsible, you're trying to be, create a, create a, as big a stage as you can. You know, what could you do with that? So a 8 billion or $8 million. You, you could make 8 to 10 billion flyers paper. Now don't do it, you know, save, save the trees. But that, that's what you could paper the earth with your brand messaging. You could do 20 billion impressions on Facebook so bc morning noon and night, 24, 7. You could cover all of Times Squares at US Billboards and get the, you know, the regional but also get the PR play amplification. You can do that for two weeks. You could wrap your, the entire New York subway system, all the trains, put them in your branding. You could do that for a month. Or you could go on cameo and buy 1600 cameos of iced tea talking about your brand. So is the super bowl ad, you know, 32nd spot given? No, I think you probably have to fight for that budget and, and fight for the, the allocation and you know, make a good case for it in the room and say, look, I stand behind it like enough people have to sign off on that, that if, especially for brands that haven't done it before or maybe have had a spotty track record and are doing it again like you, you have a lot, have to have a lot of sign off and a lot of faith that what you're doing is, you know, better than the brand, the budget allocations I talked about, but also going to be substantial for your company. And Annika, you've, you've had experiences like that. Like you've probably fought the fight or talk, talk companies out of it or you know, what's that? What's that? What are those conversations like?

B (9:55)

Absolutely. And on both fronts. Right. Because the super bowl is not for every brand. And it's, it's so important to understand that when a brand is, that is weighing the decision, am I going to make this huge play or not? There are a couple of things that are important to consider. One, are you ready to go big? And is your brand prepared to live up to the moment and the opportunities that come from the single biggest moment of awareness that can be created in the global media calendar? Because the single, the super bowl is singular. And so, yes, sure, there are a lot of companies that could pony up the cash to be part of this game. Again, not every company, but there are a lot of companies out there that could do it. But it's really important to consider, you know, is your company in the right stage of its life cycle to. To be ready to deliver on the uptick of likely customer acquisition, the influx of traffic, because if you're not, then you've just wasted a whole bunch of money. The other thing is, are you prepared to really invest in making that creative moment pay off and more and more, you know, that's not just about 30 or 60 seconds. It's about the before, during, and after. It's about, you know, hiring a great creative agency or creative leaders who are going to swing for the fences and do something bold and bringing in the right talent. If you're not ready to step up for that, then you know what, sit it out. And maybe next year is your year, but it's just the. The cards are not going to be in your favor for a successful one.

C (11:55)

I love what you're saying here, Annika. I think it's so important to understand that you can absolutely destroy value if this spike hits your operating systems, your. Your teams, your app, whatever it might be, and it crashes and you're not able to live up to the promise that you've delivered in this ad.

B (12:18)

Right.

C (12:18)

And so your, you know, your call centers are flooded, your app goes down, you don'. Actually have the merchandise, you know, at the Dunkin Donut stores, you know, all that you said you were going to have. And so it really is a long game, like you said, a strategy that you have to make sure and ensure that all of those things are aligned in order to get you there. And then I think one of the biggest things, and I know Chino will jump in on this, is when you said alignment of, like, the super bowl is not for everyone. I think that's so easy, important, because I have seen, I have actually been at companies where we had a Super bowl ad, and yet the ad had nothing to do with our business. It was a celebrity. You're trying to make it funny. It's supposed to be this moment, but, like, at the end, you put your name out there and people are like, wait, what do you do?

D (13:17)

Right, so, Chino, thoughts, Thoughts on this? Well, I work with a ton of.

B (13:23)

Creative agencies, a few of which who.

D (13:25)

Will have some super bowl ads, which.

B (13:27)

I'm excited to see.

D (13:29)

And Anika and Melissa, I think you bring up a really big point of like the why and the who. So of course you need to make sure your brand can afford it. You know, you can actually deliver on what you're promising. But who are you actually working with to build this ad, right? What is this that needs to be memorable? And you know, I think about one of my favorite super bowl ads of all time was the Snickers Betty White ad where she slaps someone because she's hungry, right? And I don't even remember even what year that was, but it's something that permeates in my brain. When I was at the grocery store the other day, I looked at a Snick, a Snickers and I, you know, I thought of this ad years later. And you know, having the right creative on this is imperative because if you're not making something that is a smart ad, strategic making, a magical moment, that's, you know, trend setting, all of the things, there's no point. So you need to make sure you're partnering with the right creative agency with that. You need to look at the talent that's there. You know, have they won a can? What other things have they done? Because not every agency is super bold, ready and worthy. Right. You know, the agency needs to make sure that they have the right talent there who can produce those strategic and creative and memorable ads. And I think a lot of brands kind of forget that. And of course an agency is like, yes, if you're going to pay us, you know, eight, $10 million to build this, you know, we can make it happen. And yes, we're going to, you know, put our name in this pitch deck. But in that RFP process, really doing your research on who is there is important too when you're looking at the talent of who's creating these ads. Because if the ad isn't great, at the end of the day, you can spend $10 billion. Doesn't matter if it's not a great ad, it's going to be forgotten about if it's not true to your brand, wasn't worth it and you could have used that money a lot other places. So it's really interesting to point out.

A (15:34)

Well, it's interesting if you're saying if the company's right and if the signals are there, because I wonder how much of it is. You know, we've run it through this logical decision making process and a flowchart and we've looked at external factors and all the weather conditions are right. And yes, we should do an ad versus you get, you know, you have a renegade CEO that says we should have a Super bowl commercial by now. Our competitors do, or where's our super, you know, or, or you have an agency that comes in and they, they have a pretty compelling presentation and they say you should have a Super Bowl. And the, the CEO is like, yes, we should, you know, or, or you hire a, a hotshot CMO from another kind of creative from another, you steal them away from another agency and, and then they're fired up and they want to do something big on a big stage for you. So how much of it is instinct, which could work, it could play out in your favor or pride or you know, the. Just that we should factor versus like no, we've run it through, we've done computations, we asked the binary, yes, no question. And here it is.

C (16:37)

Yes.

B (16:41)

It'S probably a little bit of both, Aaron. Like those factors are absolutely real, right? There are moments where there's a CEO or a CMO who wants to be on a big stage and perhaps wrongly, that drives the decision making. But you know, any smart corporate leader, marketing leader is going to look at the business rationale because honestly, it's just too expensive to not do that. And guess what? They're, you know, they're going to be on the line if this decision was a big failure and didn't deliver the roi. I think maybe one way to bring this to, just to make it real is with an example. And there's an ad that folks will see in the game this year for Rocket Mortgage and Redfin, which is a really interesting, interesting company. Visionary CMO Jonathan Mildenhall, who was at Airbnb and Coca Cola, they have an incredible ad with Lady Gaga who is covering the iconic, beautiful Day in the neighborhood song from Mr. By Mr. Rogers. And it is a, it's stirring and beautiful. I love it. But beyond just the creative and you know, having Gaga, which, you know, that's thumbs up all around, I think it is brilliant from a business standpoint for a couple of reasons. First of all, Rocket acquired Redfin in mid-2025, right? So Rocket is a mortgage company. Redfin is now part of their portfolio and they are creating a more holistic end to end experience for home buyers. So yes, you can find a home on Redfin and then you can purchase that home and then finance it through Rocket. But most people don't know that Redfin is now part of Rocket. So in at the super bowl, they are going to make that link abundantly clear to a huge potential audience. So there's a real business case for why now? Why this year? Because of that acquisition. So that's number one. Number two, you've got a, you know, I think a moment in culture where the idea of neighbors and knowing our neighbors and having a little bit more humanity, I think really resonates with so many of us culturally. And we could all use a little hope. We could all use a reminder of. Of kind of going back to our collective humanity. And so I think that creative choice is, which surely was, you know, has been in the works for a while, is just so resonant. And then you have an incredible creative talent in, you know, Lady Gaga who's going to give this, you know, maximum exposure. Like, I just think it is, yes, it's big, it's celebrity, it's beautiful, it's craft, but it is incredibly smart from the business standpoint and from like a people and culture standpoint. The way Jonathan Mildenhall revealed this, they had a big corporate town hall where they screened this ad, I think probably as part of a bigger corporate event, but they had like a big jamboree, screened it for everyone, talked to their entire employee base about the rationale for this and the strategic thinking behind the brand platform. And, you know, all that whole workforce is getting the inside trapped on why they made this decision. So they're not just going to see a very expensive ad in the Super Bowl. They're going to understand. Yes, you know what? We understand our company has made this bet because it's actually going to make our jobs as salespeople, as customer service reps easier. So I think that's one way of sort of understanding, like an A plus example of why this works.

A (20:33)

Yeah, yeah, same. Well, I was just going to say it takes a lot of restraint and a lot of knowing your brand and a lot of critical thinking and a lot of trust to do something like that. Because it's going to air right after chip commercial where a baby runs up on a coffee table and steals the last chip and then, you know, and then what's next? And you're going to come with this moment of humanity and unite us all together. Like, it better be good.

C (20:58)

I think this is the positive side of the planning, the alignment, all the things I love. Annika, what you were, you know, describing here with this, because I think on the opposite end, the cautionary tale is, you know, super bowl ads can be a terrible misfit for fragile or unproven businesses, like early stage launches without reliable product, market fit, crypto style bubbles like all the things we've seen where, you know, trust is shaky or cash burning, companies that can't really trace their, you know, revenue payback on a very expensive awareness campaign. So if your unit economics, your retention, your customer experience, your operations aren't already solid, the super bowl just amplifies those weaknesses in front of 100 million people and so you'll fall flat. And so this is a great example, Annika, of where you're seeing what that journey can look like and where you can really, you know, be very thoughtful and intentional about it, build up to it. Right. You know, I know that there's been this whole week there's been a lot of leaks of Lady Gaga singing the song and there, there's all, all this talk about it. And so for you to bring that up is just a wonderful thing because she's getting a whole bunch of awareness from fans about, oh, why is she singing that song? Right. You know, that's a great song. And, and it, you know, a time in our country where, you know, taking care of your neighbors is important. Right. So it's just a wonderful thing that, to share that, that like, look at, think about how you actually put together a plan and execute it and actually get the buy in from the people in the company is going to make it so much easier for them to deliver on that promise.

D (22:53)

And I think just adding to that too is really important to know it's that buy in from the actual company. So whether that's the brand and, or the creative agency that were at that screening because we also have to take into account the market right now, there's a lot of layoffs happening. $8 million if you're watching an ad and you know, two months ago everybody was laid off, it's like, you know, where is this? Where, where was the money for that? Did we just let go of a hundred people to afford this? And so being able to explain that rationale is really important. And I think, Anika, that's a really great example because they have checked the boxes, they have done something right. And I'm excited to see what happens on Tuesday, you know, after all of the excitement on, you know, the ROI there. But I do think it's important to talk about what it is amiss and you know, looking at as a brand, your own internal economics within, in the market. So if you have been laying people off, maybe this isn't the time to be letting you know, running an $8 million ad, as you were mentioning, Melissa, where, you know, you're in a fragile State. But being able to sell your idea to your people will also be a really great case study for how you can sell it to the market. So again, a win, win, win on, on that ad. Just because they have done the checks and balances and they've allowed their internal teams to understand what is happening there so that in a few months it's making their lives easier. Everyone has had that buy in versus on the flip side, where people don't do that and, you know, they just couldn't afford it at the end of the day and people have to get let go.

B (24:43)

Right.

C (24:44)

From a strategic lens, it's really important that, you know, a company knows where they are in their life cycle. Right. And so to your point, Chino, companies go through ups and downs and things like that. And so the tone and being like deaf to what they're going through, if they just had layoffs, you know, the last quarter, if they've had, you know, to shift their market strategy, whatever it might be, is very important to make sure that again, alignment to me is so important and, and to be very careful and cognizant of what you're saying to your teams as well as to your loyal customers as well. Because sometimes I also think the ads, like, try to grab customers that aren't really their demographic. Right. You know, you understand the customer segmentation and you're kind of going for a new segment. Well, you know, how does that make the loyalists feel?

B (25:42)

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A (25:43)

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C (26:26)

Right?

A (26:27)

So yeah, for sure. And you also have to look at the programming landscape and understand not just what your competitors might be doing or your category might be doing, but you know, what, what the sequencing of ads looks like and the other ads in the market. Because like, like on again, we were saying, like you could do these bold message statements and if it works, it cuts through. And if there's four of them in a row, people feel preached to and they feel like, wait, are we here to be entertained and watch football and what do you see? Like, why are we getting so fired up about something right now? I just, I want the baby on the coffee table. I want the grandma, the, you know, arm wrestling the grandson for, for a bag of cookies. And it turns out the grandma's played by, you know, John Cena. I don't know, but you know what I mean? Like, it's not, it's, it's a rare occasion where you're not just. The stakes are not just your own brand and your own company and how you come across, but who played before you, played after you, how the game's going. If it's a terrible game with no action, you know, maybe, I guess, maybe that's a good chance to stand out, but. Or maybe people are just less invested as a whole and you don't get the buy in that you wanted. So stakes, stakes are just higher and higher.

B (27:42)

Absolutely. It's, it's the moment where you really, you really want to invest in, in having a reason to be there and having a strong creative idea because falling flat is just, you're just doing yourself a disservice. There's a brand that, a Chinese E Commerce brand that you all may remember, tamu, that a couple of years ago bought six super bowl spots. And I mean, it was unbelievable. And they ran the same terrible creative in six super bowl spots. I mean, over and over and over again. I remember watching it and just thinking like, it's wait, it's the same. They're running the same spot. And you know, sometimes that happens twice. An advertiser will get a bonus. Like, no, it just kept going and it was terrible. But it did a short term job of raising awareness of a brand that really was still new to a lot of American consumers. Right? They did. I mean, as terrible as the ad was, it did accomplish awareness. But over the long run, I mean they, yeah, they, they got awareness, but the conversation around that brand was just about how much everybody hated the ads and was annoyed by the brand. And then when you dug in, you know, they had terrible customer service reviews and product quality reviews online. And so they made a massive, massive media investment. I mean, it's hard to imagine a company like, I mean, it's. Very few companies have invested that much in terms of like six spots over the course of the game. But over the long run, I think that was just a real missed opportunity and they could have done even with a little investment, just more creatively to sort of tell a more compelling story. And then, you know, to the earlier conversation, having the infrastructure in place to deliver on what they promised, which is sort of shop like a billionaire, right? Like, get, you know, low prices, but get all the things and, you know, at your disposal. So that's. That's one that is just an interesting one. And now today, I think they've been kind of wiped off the map in the US because of tariffs, so. RIP tamu. Well, and it makes it for a.

C (30:17)

Viral moment, though, you know, like, they become a mean company. And TAM definitely has. We've actually had a podcast about them before. I think that I, you know, I love what you say also in terms of, like, really kind of understanding, like, what that investment looks like and feels like for the end, you know, the person sitting and watching in the audience. Right. The other thing I like is when companies don't take themselves too seriously and they admit, like, I can't remember who it was last year, but I think it was John Krasinski that was the spokesperson for whatever company it was. But they were like, we can't afford it, so we're running. They ran his ad like before the super bowl started, like, so they're like, you're not going to see us until the end. Like, and then, like, they kind of did a little teaser. And then at the end, like, after the super bowl, they ran his ads. Right. You know, and it was kind of funny. They said, we can't afford to play during the super bowl, but we hope you'll tune in or whatever it was. But I think that, like, you know, kind of understanding where you fall in the whole atmosphere of super bowl ads is, like, very important. And so to your point, too, like, come on. Like, that's. That's not even, you know, the cheap shop for E commerce, for everything. Right? So, like, really, is this the place where you want to, like, like, look cheap as well again, still?

A (31:42)

You know, I mean, yeah, it's such an interesting dynamic because people want different things. They all want successful outcomes. But, you know, you've got. If you're on the agency side, you've got the client saying, put the logo on everyone's face. You know, uh, make sure that the name is repeated. Make sure they know the name of the new product extension that's out. If you're on the agency side, you want to do something avant garde. I mean, super bowl commercials are forever. So you want to make your market history. And you, you know, maybe it's like you don't even show the logo. And they're like, no. And then you have the. The financial responsibility side of it, where it's do no harm, right? Don't, don't upset the brand. Don't, don't, don't change expectations. Just layer on expectations or, you know, don't take us off course. You know, so, so be safe. Like I said, we've seen that. We know the super bowl ad playbook, right? It's, it's a, it's a celebrity pairing that's unexpected. It's a reunion of a sitcom. It's a, it's a grandma, it's a baby, it's a dog. It's. So play along those established lines even. And maybe that isn't right for your brand or right for your company. So it's all those different factors, like competing against each other. But it's like, um, you know, in Hollywood, they say even if you make a bad movie, but you make it to theaters, like you've won, you know, that's, that's a big accomplishment. It's kind of like if you make a Super bowl commercial and even if it's, you know, regardless of how it's received, as long as you didn't make, you know, make everyone feel bad themselves or say something extraordinarily racist or something. If it's a mid, mid tempo ad and it just does what it does, you've. You maybe staked your, you've made your career on it, or you've at least not taking the brand down and you've boosted sales a little bit. So maybe it did what it was supposed to do.

C (33:26)

You know, I guess I would ask you, Aaron and Annika about this though. Like, what is the definition of ROI on an ad like that when you're talking to an agency, when you're doing those types of things, like, what are you really like? Because it's not, it's really like if you're spending $8 million, it's not really good enough to just like stay where you're at. Like, why the heck would you do that? You should have invested that into like, you know, 8 million decals that people could put on their computers, you know. So I'm just wondering, like, in your, in your perspective, when you're, when you're talking to an agency, when you're talking to the board, when you're sitting at the C Suite table and you're trying to get an ad through, what are you saying you're hoping the returns are going to look like?

B (34:16)

First of all, every brand will, you know, it will be different for every brand because every brand has different business goals and objectives in Especially in looking at an event like the Super Bowl. But there are, there are some measures that, you know, one would likely consider, I mean, obviously sheer brand awareness. For example, if you're a newer brand that is looking to scale, if you're a brand that is maybe a few years old, has built the infrastructure, is really starting to hit its stride and is ready to take a giant leap forward, you might look at the ROI in terms of your overall brand, you know, unaided brand awareness. The likelihood that you're going to make a gigantic leap forward by being in an event like the super bowl is quite high. And so, you know, there are measures like that customer acquisition, you know, also driving down. I mean, it sounds sort of counterintuitive, right, Because super bowl commercials are of course so expensive for all the reasons we've, we've discussed. But if you're looking at it in the context of a larger holistic marketing program, not just those 30 or 60 seconds, but you're building out a more considered long term program with that as your anchor point and you can, and whether that is for a quarter or the entire year, the ROI on that actually can make a lot of sense because the audience that you're going to reach is so significant, it can really drive down sort of the cost of customer acquisition over time. It can drive down like it, it sounds kind of bananas, but it's, it's the truth. Aaron, I don't know if there are any other ads that you have from your experience or observations.

A (36:11)

Yeah, I was just going to say that there's two types of metrics you can look at. So one would be if you're, if, if it's a product tease or a product launch and it's, you know, it's, it's Cheetos, Lime supreme or whatever and you just announced it and everyone gets a bag. You can for sure look at quantitative metrics the next day and then look at sales trends over time and point back directly to that, that ad as the trajectory point. Right. But if you're an insurance company or you're even Budweiser, does the, the, you know, the recurring every year ads, it's more of a, more of the halo effect of are we staying on recognition on a big stage? Are we adding to the narrative, Are we building on last year? But it's not the point of purchase sale necessarily. Dollar for dollar, it's more, are we elevating our brand? Are we elevating our market share? Are we doing all the things we should be doing for a company of our size and are we executing well on them and fulfilling the promise that we, that we set out to. So that's, that's what I'd add is that you know, point of purchase sale the next day and did we uplift our brand?

C (37:22)

I'm also hearing you say that again. It's about understanding where you are and so it makes the most sense for companies that are at specific inflection points in their journey as a company. Right. So a scale up brand that's ready to jump from maybe regional to national stage. Right. Some you know, so for an awareness perspective, a category challenger with real distribution trying to break top of mind or even an incumbent defending their share of the business from a disruptive rival.

D (37:56)

Right.

C (37:56)

So really kind of establishing who they are. I know that that is something that makes a lot of sense to me in terms of those ads like being you know a company in that scenario. I just, it's just scary that there are still so many companies that invest in this and it's like a rescue mission trying to solve, you know and then in nine months they're bankrupt. Right?

B (38:24)

No, it's true. There's also sometimes the, the bandwagon effect a little bit like there it feels like almost every year there's, there's a theme to the, the types of advertisers that all of a sudden rush into the game. This year AI companies, it's, it's like the AI bowl. So you know we're going to see a lot of ads either for you know from Anthropic and Claude OpenAI, Google's focusing on Gemini and then other companies that are touting their AI tools to you know a few years ago there was a big focus on pharmaceutical companies kind of coming out of COVID and healthcare and you know and then of course the as we all know and fondly remember the great crypto bull and even going way back like the dot com bajillion years ago where you know all of these dot coms that had loads of funding got into the game and then I.

D (39:29)

It's interesting too because you're talking about the psychology of kind of that competition and you know we had these like the zeitgeist of whatever the year. Right. This is the AI boom.com boom in previous years but so much money. Does it make sense? Does it, does your message get lost in the sauce you know for market trying to get the market share. But if everybody's doing it audience do you guy there do you miss and so I wonder angada from your Perspective, like, would it be more strategic? You know, examples, maybe you don't spend $8 million. Maybe it's 2 million on scale the advert before saying, listen, maybe it is a little, you know, we couldn't afford to hear, but remember us here and making sure the paddock around for the super bowl ad spot because if everybody's there, I don't necessarily want to be in that same conversation where my name and brand gets lost in all of that. So curiously, to get your take on.

B (40:29)

That too, this year, you know, row is N. Which is, which is interesting. So it's the competitive set. And understanding the big picture is also always something to consider.

D (40:42)

But it's interesting too, because we talk about the psychology of that competition and we have the zeitgeist of whatever the year this is the AI boom.com boom in previous years. But does it make sense? Does your message get lost in the sauce? You know, trying to get the market share? But if everybody's doing it, do you get, do you miss and so I wonder, Annika, from your perspective, like, would it be more strategic? For example, maybe you don't spend $8 million. Maybe it's 2 million on the ad, right before saying, listen, maybe it is a little, you know, we couldn't afford it here, but remember us here and making sure that you're padding around the super bowl ad spot, because if everybody's there, I don't necessarily want to be in that same conversation where my name and brand gets lost in all of that. So curiously, to get your take on that too.

B (41:44)

Yeah, I think that's such a good point. You know, and I, I agree. And, and research shows that when lots of brands, especially from a, like, let's say just a, a category that is less familiar, when a bunch of brands in the same category show up, people don't, people get confused. They just, they can't remember which was which. And so the impact of that investment for, you know, all of those brands is diluted. So I think it's a really smart point, you know, if everyone in the automotive category or everybody in AI is, is. And you know what, maybe you're going to sit this one out and you know, zig where others are zagging it. It should, it could be a much better, a much better strategy.

C (42:33)

I also think that there's that halo effect in the sense that, like, if you see an ad go viral, I love those companies that jump on that and then kind of create it a response. Do you know what I mean? In their own way, this is the thing that bothers me the most about super bowl ads is that it is hard to discern sometimes what the company does or, you know, like, you'll be like, oh, they had this spokesperson because I love this actor, I love this athlete or whoever it might be. And it was, you know, for, you know, let's say for weight loss drugs, right? But now I, I can't remember, was it Ro? Was it him and hers? Was it, you know, like, who, who was that? Right?

B (43:19)

But you just know, you know, in.

C (43:20)

The, the sense of it. And so like, to me, that's not great, right? You know that you're not getting what you, you want me to, you want me to go to the Ro website, right? And that. That's what you want. So I think that that connection too is still like a little foggy sometimes. Even when you get the best people. I mean, that's where Duncan killed it. Because they got a Boston voice, they got Ben Ackland, they got Tom Brady, right? They got the Boston voice of where Duncan's located. You know what I mean? And so like, you immediately were like, oh, okay, Duncan, right? You know, versus like, oh, it was a coffee place. Was it Dutch brothers or was it Starbucks? Like, I don't remember. His favorite coffee is something, right? So I think that, like having that really tight connection is. It's, it's hard. And I mean, it's a challenge for agencies and CMOs alike. But that is definitely, you know, when you think about the culture of who's sitting around, you're watching the ads, there's stuff going on, you're eating, you're kind of paying attention, you're not paying attention. So you really have to make that connection and make it make sense to the, to the person sit, you know, the person sitting in the audience.

A (44:40)

Yeah, well, Melissa with the, the Duncan, there's, you know, if you got bought in on it, it wasn't just go buy Duncan tomorrow, which of course they want you to do, but there was more. There was like a, there was like a 22 minute mini movie of that, which I watched and it was great, you know, and you could get immersed in that world and they had more content for you and they built off of it and they're still playing the dunking's thing. So it's, it's super bowl ads are not a fixed, you know, time coded thing anymore. They can be as, as immersive or as layered, multi. Layered omnichannel campaign as a brand wants it to, you know, and they can last as long as they want it to. And it doesn't even have to start at the ad. It could start, they could tease. Now there's a teaser of the ad and a teaser of the teaser. And like you said, a secret, you know, a secret celebrity doing some PR stunt, like why are they carrying their groceries upside down and they're falling on the street? I guess they're losing their faculty. No, they're not. It's just, you know, so it can, it just, it grows and it's not a 30 second, it's not a 60. It grows and grows and it can be, it could set brands up, I mean really for a good ad, could set brands up on a three year trajectory.

D (45:54)

Exactly. And I'm curious too about call to action specifically, as you know, making sure that that brand awareness is there and you're not mixing it up with another brand. I have started to see a lot more brands using QR codes. Again, don't love it post Covid era. You know, you don't love scanning a QR code in a menu. But I wonder when you're spending $8 million on an ad. I really don't want someone to mistake this and you know, maybe almost forcing that fit and driving that action with the QR code. I wonder if that's something we're going to see more. Because, you know, at Costco, as I've been looking at, you know, different TVs, I've found certain brands actually will push out ads with QR codes, which is something I've not really experienced. I'm seeing that more and more from different ads I've been watching and I'm very curious to see if that's something that's going to continue to ensure that brand recognition is there. I'm curious to get your take on that. Annika and Erin and Melissa look to.

B (47:02)

The point of ROI and, and ensuring that we've got data and metrics where we can track the impact. I think every brand is looking for more accountability and so it's possible. It'll be interesting to see if any of that pops up on Sunday. But I, even if it's not a QR code, I predict we'll see, we'll see different ways to engage in different kind of calls to action. Whether that's going to a website or it's, you know, searching, searching something on TikTok or what, whatever it may be, that is now part of the super bowl playbook. Because the brands who are making these investments, they want the data, they want to, they want to drive the engagement and the traffic. They want to capture. Capture that audience. They want to start either deepening or building a relationship with a widely expanded customer base. And so, yeah, I think there's. There's no doubt that we'll see kind of different forms of that manifesting in. In the big game.

A (48:05)

Thanks, Annika. If you're a company that's never done an ad and you're ready, let's say the markers are there and you, you see, you're seemingly ready to play on the big stage. Do you use that moment to say, get to know us. Here's who we are, or do you use that moment to do a needle drop? Like, look, we just did. We just changed everything you thought about everything. You know, boom, there's no more fees on anything we do. You know, like, do you. Is that too much, too soon? Or do you use it just for the recognition? Or what's the, I guess, the responsible and the creative angle? Like, what do you do in that situation? And you're not. You're not Budweiser. You don't get four ads per game and, you know, all the background signages, you got one shot. What are you going to do?

B (48:47)

Go big. It's the super. Like, I think there are brands that have been really successful over time. Like, the things that we remember, the things that do become sort of those cultural touchstones and the things that are talked about the next day, it's when there's something that actually breaks from the super bowl playbook. And. And so, I mean, I think there, there is value to using that moment to either, you know, reintroduce yourself, to surprise that audience. You know, there's got to be a real, like, reason for that. Otherwise you're just doing something random that is not going to connect back to your brand. I mean, I think about a few years ago, this was like, maybe one example of the. From the crypto bull that was successful. But do you remember that, that Coinbase had that ad where it was just the floating QR code and everyone was just like, what is happening on my screen? Why is there a floating QR code today? Coinbase is still active around, you know, they're one of the companies that has. Has survived and thrived. I mean, it got everybody in America picking up their phones and pointing at that QR code and, like, signing up for Coinbase. I think I did it during the game. So, I mean, they are a brand that had a real reason. Like, yes, there was awareness, but there was a real reason to sort of okay, hey, here's what we're doing. We're doing something bold and totally different and it really worked for them. So. Yeah, I mean, you're in the biggest stage. Like, don't be afraid to swing for the fences.

A (50:33)

True. And that one cost about a dollar to produce, it looks like.

B (50:39)

Exactly. They were able to stay on the low end of the range with, with that gem, that's for sure.

C (50:45)

Yeah. A summer intern was in charge.

B (50:47)

Yeah.

A (50:49)

Okay, well, let's. We, we have ideas. We'll fix this situation. We're going to help companies navigate whether they should be in the game, whether they should keep coming back, whether it's doing what they intended for it to do. And so if they know their company well, really understand what they're all about. You don't want to learn something about your company negatively for the first time when it's playing out on a stage that size. So, you know, really do something that's. Well, you know, we've said this before, but like do something that's true to your brand and your company, but do it loudly in a participatory kind of way where people want what you're talking about. Do the mic drop. I'm all in favor for that. You know, be, be bold. Also, you have to, I said earlier, but you have to look at your, not just your, your head to head competitors, but look at what is the. What does the day of entertainment look like? What does the programming look like? Maybe plan for contingencies. If the game's going bad, what kind of mood are people going to be in? Does our ad play in that format? If, if people are in a great mood is going to play in that, you know, like test it. I love the town hall or the pre. The roadshow or something besides, just like here's our teaser campaign or. And then it's too late. You know, you have an opportunity to really craft it. Not to the point where you've sucked all the creative life out of it, but to the point where you're like, look, we've shown this every number of different ways. People love this. We can't get this out fast enough if you don't belong there, regardless of whether you have the money, if you have new money and you're flashing it around, you maybe hold on to it for a little while and see if you last the year. Be a little bit responsible, fiscally responsible. But even if you've never had an ad before and the, your. All the markers are there and the signals are there and your competitors are holding back and you just, you know, it's not a point of pride and a point of contention. Like, you know, we, we've got to do this because we, we just, we got to put our, our flag in the, in the sand type of thing. It's like, no, we belong at the Super Bowl. Our brand should, our brand definitely should be there. We're in league with the other companies that are there. We got something to say. We've got interesting creative, we got a powerful message. We can quantify the results one way or another. Yeah, let's go, let's do this ad. Yeah, let's. We're, we're, we're all in. We're bought in. Melissa, if we put that all together and that's, that's our advice to the company. The next company up that's looking at next year's ads, did we fix their situation?

B (53:15)

I think we did.

C (53:16)

I think we brought awareness to, to the topic of super bowl ads. I think there's a few things I would say. You know, only invest and buy an ad when the rest of the machine is already working, meaning your operations, your, you know, you understand who your customers are and you understand who the audience is and you have a product and services that can handle that national spotlight and can handle it because you want to make sure that you're, you can deliver on those promises that you are sharing in these ads. I'd also say, and I think you might have mentioned this, but making that super bowl at the center of a larger campaign and a very intentional campaign, not just a 30 second event, I think is important. And lastly, but you know, very importantly is being attentional and having true alignment. So understanding tone, understanding what else is going on in the company, understand what's going on in the economy, so to speak, so that you're making sure that you're not going to be the next company canceled.

A (54:22)

Thanks, Melissa Chino. Did we help cautionary tales that are planning for next year, do we just, you know, give them the rationale to go spend elsewhere? And then the good companies that have something to say, do we give them the go. The, the go ahead? And, and are they, are they amped up now? Did we fix it?

D (54:41)

I think so. You know, I think again, knowing what that message that you're trying to share and making sure that it's a strategic one, take the emotions out of it is, I think the big kind of takeaway from this conversation for me on kind of the Super Bowl. And you know, you're never going to have as many Eyeballs as you will on that moment. So make it count. Don't be afraid to be bold. You know, get your teams around it. You know, do as much testing, be strategic, hire on a cloud to make sure you're crossing all the boxes there. But I think if you can check yes to all of these kind of precursor questions, go for it. Do it. Do it next year.

B (55:28)

Yeah.

C (55:31)

Chino and her super bowl playbook.

D (55:33)

We love a playbook.

A (55:36)

Anika. Did we fix the situation? Do it. Do companies get, do they understand how to play now? If they've never done an ad, if they did an ad that flopped, if they want to come back and try again, do we put them in a better place than they started before this episode?

B (55:50)

We fixed it. We fixed it. I think companies need to take a hard look at themselves and really ask the question, is this the right moment for us? Are we ready to play? And if you can look at all of those factors and, and come to the smart decision, yes, then I think we've had a great discussion about all of the considerations. Get a great creative agency partner, think about the end to end of it all and build around it. It's not just those 30 or 60 seconds. It's so much more. And then to the point of delivering on the product, delivering on the operations, and really delivering for your people and ensuring that people in that company understand the why and can use that super bowl moment as a rallying cry and something positive to take forth. I think we can do all those things. Yeah, we've, we've fixed it. And companies who've listened, hopefully they know when they should, when they should, you know, take the field and when they should stay on the sidelines.

A (56:54)

I love that. Thank you. That, that's a touchdown for us. I'm, I'll, I'll take it. Um, go team.

B (57:01)

Go team.

A (57:02)

Well, thank. That's going to wrap up our episode. Um, before we go, I'd like to give one more big thanks to Annika Kobzev one more time for joining us. This would not have been the same without you here. How can everyone keep up with what you're doing now?

B (57:16)

Oh, that's so kind. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. Annika Kobzev on LinkedIn. I'm, I'm visible there, so please connect with me.

A (57:26)

Fantastic. Please do. Yeah. And thanks, Annika. Thanks, Chino and Melissa. And we're back. We talked to you pre game and this is our post game analysis. Not of the football. The game was fine. Let's dig into the commercials. We're of course not the only ones talking about this year's ads, but we have our own take on things. You're going to want to hear this. Joining Melissa and me for the post game rundown is Annika Kobzev. Anika has advised on a number of super bowl campaigns over the course of her career. She's led global communications for storied agencies like McCann and TBWA. Now as founder and principal of Throughline Advisory, she works as a fractional chief communications officer and advisor, helping brands to elevate their visibility through strategic communications and content. Welcome Anika.

B (58:16)

Thank you. Great to be with you.

A (58:18)

Oh, we're so happy to have you. And we're also happy to be joined by Amelia Renshaw, Head of strategy at Lucky Generals New York. Amelia is a dynamic strategic leader with deep knowledge of brand comms, social data and content strategy. She creates impactful and transformative brand experiences by helping clients uncover the meaningful role for their brand to play in culture and their consumers lives. Throughout her career, Emilia has spearheaded brand positioning, award winning creative campaigns and comms thinking to help turn ambition into action for brands such as Universal, which comes into play today, Ally, Google, Peloton, Pinterest and Girls who Code, among others. Emilia, welcome to our little after party.

E (59:02)

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.

A (59:05)

Oh, we're so glad to have you here. Okay, well let's get into it. What was the worst ad? No, I'm just kidding. But no, but what were we seeing this year in terms of running themes and what worked? Well, let's start there.

C (59:18)

Well, I think that one of the things I was really proud of us is that we called it, I think we actually thought that there were going to be a lot of AI driven ads and talking about AI companies so like Gemini, Amazon, Alexa, OpenAI, Claude, et cetera, as well as AI use within ads. And there were a lot of ads on sports betting which was interesting given that whole ecosystem and what's going on there. And then there was still a lot of celebrity mixed, you know, ads, a lot of celebrity deep into ads. And I felt like the emotional anchor ads were fewer this year, but they were really, really powerful. So I know, Anaka, you brought up one that I, it was beautiful was the Redfin rocket mortgage one with Lady Gaga was, was beautifully done. The surprise for me that really touched me, I think I might have even teared up was the lay's potato farmer retirement one. I was like what? And, and, and then at the end of the super bowl, them having the QR codes. Right. We talked about QR codes and Coinbase and things like that. And, and that Lays had like, if you want potato chips in 72 hours, scan this code. So I, I thought it was interesting. I'd love to hear your. You guys are all professionals on this. I'm, I'm, I'm the person that's just watching it and then I'm thinking, will I actually buy that? And also there was an. Annika, I think you mentioned this as well, is the, A lot of the health types of things. I, and I thought some of those were cool, great liquid iv the, you know, all the different types of things. Like, you know, test your, like look at your pee.

D (61:09)

You know, that was, I thought that was good.

A (61:12)

Well, let's, let's talk about the LAYS one real quick because I could tee up a little bit of a topic conversation. So Lays had done a study recently in 2025, I think, where they said that 40% of those who participated in the study, consumers did not connect back the fact that lays are potato chips and that they come from potatoes. So they made it very abundantly clear that, yeah, you're, what you're eating, what you're crunching down on is a potato and it comes from a field and it comes from a farmer. So Lays and elsewhere. What, what who did well, doing either like a reframing or re. Like, here's what you think you know us for and we're going to clear some stuff up. Like, like Rocket Mortgage, for example, was kind of a underutilized asset in our portfolio. And then they were able to connect it and say, you should know this about us. Who, who do you think did that? Well, in terms of, you know, reframing the dialogue around their brand?

E (62:04)

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think kind of touching on what you were saying, Melissa, about just the onslaught of AI players in the space this year and it feeling a little bit like a changing of the guard of just the brands that show up at the Super Bowl. I think that Claude did a really great job with a tough challenge. Obviously they are facing, you know, the same challenges that all of these other AI brands are facing of just making people feel comfortable using their product, which, you know, some did better than others. But I think, you know, it was a really interesting take on it. I think they were the first brand that I saw really tap into that human insight that there is a lot of fear around using these products. And, you know, you don't want to use them if you're afraid that they're going to be selling you something or using your data. And so I think of all of the players in the AI space, I think that they really won the night and it was an interesting reframing on what the brand AI space can really offer.

B (62:55)

I think that's such a good point, Emelia. And I think also one thing that Claude did so well is they, they won the night when it comes to the AI players, but they also won the pre game because they, they dropped their ads a couple of days before the game and they were poking at their biggest competitor in the space, OpenAI and ChatGPT and they got Sam Altman all fired up and they, you know, by taking a pretty bold creative moot, you know, not being afraid to throw some punches as a challenger brand, I think they absolutely dominated in sort of the pre game conversation and then they really delivered on it in the game.

C (63:44)

Yeah, I like that. I also, for me, the thing that I liked is to understand how AI can be used in a way that isn't threatening because I think a lot of people are scared of AI.

B (63:57)

Right.

C (63:58)

And so for me, one of the ads that really, I felt like, really did a great job of that was Codex OpenAI, which was the. You can just build things. Remember? They, they, they started with the little kid like making something and like it went on and on. And then at the end it was like, you can build things. And I thought like, that makes AI feel like a partnership and a tool less of like a threat. And I felt like there was some creepy AI stuff like the vodka. I was like, I'm not sure that I really like the robotic vodka. That to me was like, you know, Aaron and I have met some like an incredible founder for robotics and I, I just, he was mind blowing. He made all of us rethink what were our purpose in life. But like, that just felt creepy, a little bit cringe. And I felt like there were moments like even the Duncan commercial with the.

A (64:57)

You know, the aging.

B (64:58)

Yeah, the goodwill.

C (65:00)

Duncan instead of Goodwill, you know, I thought, ew, I don't know that I like that all of those guys are like redone, you know, Like, I, I.

D (65:11)

Didn'T like that and it was funny.

C (65:13)

I asked a couple people, you know, and I saw online that there was some backlash to that, that they liked the idea of nostalgia, the 90s friends, all that stuff. But it felt a little weird that it went, it went that direction instead of maybe just having them in it as they are today. Right, Yeah.

E (65:33)

I think you touch on something really interesting there too, because, you know, I think on one hand you see OpenAI telling this story about the history, but also the inevitability of this tech innovation in a really beautifully produced ad, I might add. But then at the end of the night, you're also faced with the reality of a lot of this AI slop and kind of the negative effects of AI, And I think that that balance was a really interesting dynamic throughout the entire night. And it will be interesting to see what some of these brands do after the big game and how they continue to counteract that perception moving forward.

A (66:07)

Yeah, and that's what I liked about Claude, is they made it relatable, so they used terms that people were familiar with. They used simplified interfaces. They didn't overcomplicate the situation. And I'm all for taking another brand's thunder and stealing it, especially on a stage as big as that. Hello, Pepsi. We could talk about that too. But with Claude, a couple things I was thinking about is, are they trying to solve, number one for a problem that doesn't quite exist yet? Because do consumers have ad fatigue within their AI tools or is that just kind of a new emerging concept? And are they, you know, are they trying to solve for something that isn't to a pain point where people are really willing to change their behavior? And if they're saying no ads here, is that a sustainable business model? You know, if they, if they have to walk you back in six months from now and realize in order to be viable, they've got to have ads like everyone. Well, now ads are the standard across AI platforms and they're the holdout. Like they're, they're going to have to walk that back and, you know, reverse course. So those are the two things in my mind. Like, great, make a bold statement, make it as big as you want. But, you know, remember what, we're all going to remember what you said here.

D (67:19)

Absolutely, yeah.

B (67:21)

The point of delivering, and we, we had spoken about this on the earlier episode, the importance of delivering on the promises you make in the Super Bowl. So very important. Which brings me to another ad from last night which got a lot of traction and then attention for all the wrong things. The AI.com ad, the go claim your domain AI.com and then the site crashed. Right? So, and I know this not just from the coverage, but from somebody at my super bowl party who actually went on to try and claim his domain and then could not do, or his site and he couldn't, couldn't do it. So I think, yeah, it's, you're on the world's biggest media stage. It's important to deliver on the promises over the long term and then operationally be sure that your company is ready and prepared to, you know, deal with the, the traffic, the onslaught, the whole thing. When you have the world's attention.

A (68:24)

Emilia, what do you think about taking the, you know, using that kind of platform to take the legs out from another brand as opposed to saying something, you know, specific about your own brand? Like, what do you think on that?

E (68:34)

Yeah, no, that's a great question. I'm, I'm always of two minds. I think the way that Claude did it and leading up to the super bowl and creating a lot of noise was really smart. I think sometimes spending most of your time in a 30 second, or sometimes, if you're lucky, a 60 second ad in the super bowl, talking about what you're not, or talking about your competitor to reframe who you are, I think can sometimes land poorly. And also just knowing that it is such a crowded space, yes, you have attention, but you're also shouting over all of these other brands, really making sure that your message is simple, it's understandable and that people walk away knowing who it's for. So I think that that sometimes can be amiss if people are spending the first 75% of your ad thinking it's for someone else.

C (69:19)

Well, I mean, it's interesting that you say that as well, because Pepsi, I know, Erin, you weren't going to talk about that, but like Pepsi utilizing the Coca Cola polar bears. I've, I've seen both people saying, oh, like that's, you know, save the polar bears is out there now. You know, all this stuff. And it's funny because it got people thinking. I mean, so Pepsi did get. Now everybody's talking about it and they're talking about it in terms of Pepsi, not just Coca Cola. So like, like in that scenario, they're utilizing something that's very well known about their, their top competitor. Yet it seems like even if it didn't land exactly, well, people are still talking about it. So isn't that what you wanted to have happen? I don't know.

E (70:05)

Absolutely. I mean, I think what they did in a smart way is they didn't wait until the end to reveal who it was for. I think even just setting up the dynamic of the polar bears, the Pepsi challenge and using that as the idea right off the bat, I think it immediately reframed it as this is a Pepsi Spot. I think in those situations, that does work pretty effectively.

A (70:26)

Yeah. And the memorability and the recall is key because you had something like the benchmark Ben Stiller and Benson Boone, who, you know, Ben Stiller falling down in costumes. Never not going to be funny. But they said, they said bananas a few times, and then at the very end they said instacart. You know, so had they said bananas and, you know, takeout or bananas and something else. Get, you know, cereal. It might help with the, you know, might help with the recall and, and the connectivity back to what this was all about. But I remembered bananas.

C (70:59)

I also was interested and I don't know, you know, you have. As brand marketers can talk about this, but I was very interested in the turbo tax ads with Adrian Brody. And they were different, but they were all aligned about the pain of taxes and the drama. And he kept doing that. And they were like, no, we're pain free. That's why we need you to stop crying. And he's like, I can't stop crying. You know, all the things. So, you know, I wonder about, like, for them because they had like three or four ads during that whole time, like, is that the right investment?

B (71:33)

Right.

C (71:33)

You know, it seemed like I, I thought it was interesting because I was like, what, what are they trying to get at? I mean, yeah, taxes suck, but, you know, what are they trying to get at?

E (71:44)

It's a good question. And, you know, I can't speculate on what their media buy was necessarily or what else is running, but I think in that context, I would imagine that that suite of ads that they ran around the super bowl are also running in preseason games leading up to the super bowl, the Olympics. I know I saw some TurboTax stuff there as well. So I think really making sure that that message doesn't reach wear out, knowing that tax season is so short, they really have to hit it hard in the first couple of months of the year so that by the time people are filing their taxes, it's really top of mind. I think in that case for their brand, that media buy does make sense because they do probably go dark for most of the rest of the year. I wouldn't say that that's probably the case for some other brands where they do have to think about that full year and stretch it out to keep that conversation going.

A (72:32)

Yeah, I would think if you're going to do that much coverage during the game, you know, these were like little standalone vignettes with Adrien Brody. It would kind of be smart to do your own little. Like there was one with Melissa McCartney that was telenovela themed for something else. But to do like, do like a part one, part two, part three, where you're creating your own little like sub programming bites that you can link together afterward and get some. Get some mileage out of. But people are. May stay tuned for part three if they like parts one and two, you know, and then all of a sudden that's what they're watching for during the game.

C (73:04)

Oh, that makes sense. Like, because. Because honestly, they were standalone. So like the first one played at the very beginning of the game and I. Or maybe even pre game. And so you saw it and you thought that was it. Right. Like, oh, right. No, no drama taxes or whatever he was saying. So.

A (73:21)

So what if it's Adrian Brody saying, I've got to tell everyone about this. And then he starts knocking on doors and he collects, you know, they're going to use celebrities anyway, starts collecting celebrities and they go on a mission, you know, and they. And they build this parade of people around them and it just once you hang on to say, oh, who's going to be involved next? Or how big does this actually get?

E (73:42)

Yeah, yeah, I will say the Adrien Brody connection, you know, made me think about, obviously, the super bowl is a time when there are so many celebs, you almost can't spot which brand is using who. And every year it changes. I think Matthew McConaughey has been in a Super bowl ad every year for the last 10 or something like that. I'm sure I'm getting that stat wrong, but I think where TurboTax got it right and I think some other brands fall into this category. Fanatics with Kendall Jenner, I would say as well, it feels like the idea is so. Or the celebrity is so rooted in a bigger idea, but they don't feel tacked on. It still feels very cohesive. It feels like you're leveraging what you know about that celebrity with what you know about the brand or what you want to communicate about the brand. And I think that. That the use of celebrity in that context, I think works really well. I think others miss the mark when you get so many in there and you just.

C (74:31)

Yeah.

E (74:32)

And they feel random and it feels like whoever was available. But Yeah, I think TurboTax is a.

C (74:37)

Great example of all that. Stone one with the Emma Stone one with Squarespace.

D (74:42)

I thought she.

C (74:42)

It was beautifully done and kind, you know, and it was interesting because the Turbo Tax ads had already been running, so this whole black and white Very dramatic, very, you know, intense. But the humor in it yet the intensity of it, you knew exactly what this was going to be about. And I, to your point, I think, you know, just throwing a celebrity in there to be, to be the celebrity of an ad doesn't always hit because you're like, wait, that celebrity is not really, that's not really what I would think of them for. Right. You know, and so I, I did, I, I did appreciate that one. That was one of those that I really liked. And I, I, you know, and I thought like, the Levi's one was kind of Aaron maybe hit at the Sydney Sweeney ads of, of. Of Amer, you know, of, of a while back while when they said you that was their whole thing. And then that was kind of a cute one. But again, I thought that there were just a lot of interesting messages. And it was, you know, very, it was a little more, There were some that were a lot more serious, you know, even though they used humor for like the prostate cancer one and all those kinds of things. I thought it was interesting just to see the mix of ads and you know, like, Annika, we knew we were going to get the AI ones, but it was interesting to see all the health ones and, you know, those type.

B (76:17)

Yeah, I mean, health was. There were so many health and pharma ads this year. And, and look, I mean, we see some of that every year. It felt like there were more this year and most of them, you know, not super successful. I do think that the Novartis sort of relax your tight end. I thought it was hilarious. Oh, my God. So funny and expecting. You've got these NFL players, you know, who are, you know, just sort of in their moments of Zen. It's, you know, everyone just sort of is in on the joke. And then the music choice of Enya was also just hilarious and I think sort of hit that nostalgia factor. But a really important message too, and timely for Novartis to be introducing this blood, this simple blood test for prostate cancer. So, you know, I think money well spent for them to get in front of a huge audience during the super bowl. And they really delivered creatively where, you know, so many of the other pharmaceutical ads just kind of fell short. Like, I don't know, Ro with, you know, you have Serena Williams, she just you know, just sort of. I expect more, right. For more.

A (77:40)

Well, Annika, we talked a little bit about previously about the. Would you have a message, a message focused ad and then you have another one and can it be too much? You know, because you have to think of it as a night of entertainment or a night of programming, or you have two message focused ones and then you have one of someone getting hit in the face and it's hilarious. You know, how do you think that you're watching it in real time? Like, were you thinking about those things or how do you think that effectiveness came across?

B (78:05)

No, the context is important. And I think even Melissa, to your point about the Adrian Brody TurboTax, and then you move into the Emma Stone Squarespace where you have these stark black and white ads that are so striking on their own and then do they have the same impact if you're sort of seeing that device used multiple times during the game now, context always matters. And you know, look, I think there were a couple of points where we had. It was like, is it the Backstreet Boys Bowl? Like we are just, you know, we're seeing a lot of Backstreet where, okay, first time, really funny. Second time, okay, you know, third time now what. What was I watching? So, yeah, I mean, that's where I think, look, being earlier in the game can be an advantage. Right. Because you're hopefully just stacking the odds that you're going to be the first or in the first bucket of whatever the trend may be. Also, you're catching people before maybe they tune out if it's a boring game or if they're, they're just distracted. I think there's also, you know, there's, there is, there's a time for, there's a time for humor and everybody's coming to the super bowl for humor. But a really well placed emotional ad or human centric storytelling, boy, it can really land and stand out. And I think that that can be okay even if you've just been in a humor zone. And then, right. Wow. Something comes out and it hits you. It can really capture attention. Like the lay spot. Right. I mean that I think with the, the father and the daughter that was emotionally resonant really cut through. I had friends on a text chat who were, you know, commenting about it and sending messages. I thought that was really beautiful. Emelia, I think are, you know, the Universal Orlando Resort little bro spot that you worked on. Really sweet, very lovely human story that so many people can kind of emotionally connect to. You know, that's another. That's a little bit refreshing after a lot of slapstick humor.

E (80:23)

Absolutely. I think what you touch on too is, you know, this is such a unique media moment where you have a tuned in audience and it's not necessarily Just about grabbing attention. It's, what do you do once you have it? How do you fill that space and leave someone with something to think about after? And I think that's where simplicity really wins. And, you know, even some of these ads that we've been talking about, I think they all have that in common, regardless of tone, whether they're making you laugh, making you cry, they are so simple and it's so easy to get. You don't need all of these layers or all of these celebs to understand it. It is just that heart of the idea comes through, and that's something that brands can build on long after the super bowl as well.

A (81:01)

Yeah, well, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I appreciated about your. Your spot is for Universal Orlando, right? It was, it was such a personal story, but it was so, but it wasn't even a family. It was just the dynamic between two brothers, and you assume the family's there, too. But then it was just like, there was just a, like a narrative shift or a camera angle to the younger brother. Like, all of a sudden you're, he's leading the way. And, and it was just such a small. Yet we'll call it, you say Universal, but the message was we could all feel what they were feeling, you know, and want to tap into that moment. And it played really well on a, on a big, on a big stage.

C (81:39)

Well, and then also the scripting, Right. Like Little Man. Right. Like Little man, you know, and how it changed over time. Right. And it went from, like, being kind of, like, derived. He felt it was derogatory, and then it was, like, endearing, and then it was, like, uplifting. Right. And to, like, not have it be, like, a whole bunch of things that are just getting thrown at you or too many words or too many songs, you know, another Backstreet Boy song or whatever it might be, I think, is it, it is that simplicity that drives, you know, everybody to have a connection with it, because you're not forcing a connection. You're, like, allowing people to think about it in their own way. Right. And think about, like, oh, the wonder of childhood, the wonder of the first time going to Universal Resort, you know, all the things. So I, I, I appreciated some, I appreciate those kinds of things that aren't, like, in your face, forcing you to think of things a certain way. And the spots are so short, you know, it isn't that much time, so you have to, to be able to grab somebody by the heartstrings right away or make it something that they want to watch. I'm sure you guys do all the testing on that. But I thought it was interesting because there were some ads that I just, you know, and I was literally taking notes because I. I knew that's what we were going to be talking about today. And then all of a sudden I'm like, totally tuned out. And I'm like, oh, wait, I missed that ad. Like, I didn't. I didn't even see, you know, and then I see the, like, logo or whatever it is. So I was like, oh, I wasn't even caught in the first 10 seconds. I didn't even worry to pay attention. I like, you know, so I don't know. Aaron, did you have an ad that you thought was outstanding, different than what we've talked about?

A (83:33)

Well, like I said, I like the Universal one, and it was NBC, it wasn't abc. So Disney wasn't all over it with Disney, Disneyland, or Disney World. But I had a feeling if they had an ad for Disney World, it'd be very different from the Universal ad, which. Which I would appreciate. Same with, like, Sabrina Carpenter and the Pringles ad. It's just Sabrina Carpenter doing what she does, and they built an ad around her, and it's very different from Lays and two, you know, chip companies, ostensibly competitors, get to each do what they do, and there's no. No crossover confusion about who they each are. So I like seeing that. I think there was AI fatigue. I think, you know, when you get to the one with Matthew Broderick and you don't know what that does versus Copilot, versus any of the others anymore, it's, leave me alone. I have maybe a worst of the night type of thing. We'll keep it positive and constructive, but. But no, let's hear what other people say and then come back to me.

B (84:31)

I'm curious if anyone has a perspective.

A (84:34)

On Coinbase, the text on a screen ad?

B (84:37)

Yes, the.

E (84:38)

The karaoke.

B (84:39)

Our second Backstreet Boy. It was karaoke. Screen karaoke. Yeah. Coinbase karaoke. So I. I will tell you that it was very polarizing in my household. Very polarizing from a marketing standpoint, I think it is. I thought it was brilliant because everybody stopped and you had that, what is this? Moment? And it reminded me a bit of what Coinbase did with the floating QR code a few years back. Right. Felt on brand. And you know the song Every Everybody, I'm not gonna sing it.

C (85:17)

That would be bad.

B (85:18)

But the song Everybody by the Backstreet Boys is sending a Message about, you know, Coinbase crypto is for everybody. Right. Like, that's sort of the subtle thread through it. So I do think there's something kind of joyful and funny and very strategically smart about what they did. So. And I. And it ranked very high, like amongst ad critics, it seems to have ranked very high. And then it is absolutely at the very bottom of the USA Today AD meter and many of the people, the civilians I was with last night hated it. So I'm. I still think it's smart, but certainly polarizing is my take.

E (86:03)

I am so glad that you brought that one up because I had the exact same experience marketers are. We're talking about it in my circle. And then all of my friends that I watched at home with were like, what was that? I don't think I got it. I don't know what this was for. And I think it does represent. I think that there. When we think about impact with the super bowl, it seems like it falls into one or two of two camps. You have fame and buzz on one end of the spectrum where it's just put your brand out there, get people talking about it, good or bad. All press is good press. And then on the other end of the spectrum, it's that lasting impact and using this as a moment to cement your brand in the mind of your audience and create an emotional connection. And so I would say Coinbase probably did that fame and buzz, but I don't. I have questions about the lasting impact and I guess only time will tell. And where they take this beyond the Super Bowl.

A (86:52)

Yeah, I'm not sure the legality, but if they tied in some type of real time contest into it, I think they could have capitalized on that moment. So if it's everybody wins, you know, some people win a dollar, some people win a luxury yacht. So people win a million dollars, and then you're all checking your coinbase together, you can create that communal moment.

E (87:11)

That's interesting.

C (87:11)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's interesting to hear your perspectives as marketers because again, that was an underperformer. You know, when you look online right now, like, everybody is like, what? That was not worth $8 million. Like, what were they thinking? Like, to your point, Aaron, like, they, they're like, that was not a big production. They could have given away a million. They could have given away five bitcoins. Like, come on, you, you know, you could have helped us all out, right? You know, or sign up and you, you could pot and Monday morning you might be the winner, right? That kind of thing. So I do think, and I think it's unfortunate because, Annika, it was not the first Backstreet Boys song. So the. The started, you know, so T Mobile had Backstreet Boys. They actually have the Backstreet Boys singing. Right. So, like, then you're like, wait, is this a T Mobile ad? Right, like, so there's confusion when they're. You're using the same type of, you know, media and music. And so that's. I think that also led to, like, it fell short because by the time it actually showed, it was a little like, we've already heard. We're okay. We get the 90s references. That's okay. You know, so I. I think that that probably was an issue for them. Right. Because I do think that I was excited about it because we had been talking about it. So I, you know, in my mind, I was like, oh, this is great. This is good, because this is connected to what they did before. But then I was like, oh, no. Yeah, yeah.

E (88:54)

My strat brain makes me. I want to dig into the data and understand, you know, how many searches for Coinbase results in downloads and things like that. Because if that's part of their strategy, it's pretty brilliant. But I don't want to give them too much credit.

A (89:07)

What's the Venn diagram between Coinbase and Backstreet Boy searches?

B (89:10)

Yes, exactly. Erin, we're going to need an update episode update in 48 hours.

A (89:17)

We'll crunch the numbers with all the AI tools. We'll run it through all of them. Yeah, well, I do. The one that I felt most, most tonally off, I'll just say it was the Hims and hers where it talked about the 1% and just totally distancing ourselves from the wealthy. Yeah, it was well, well executed. That wasn't the problem. It was just, you know, go look up the CEO's compensation. Like, not a nonprofit company. They are in this for. For the. For the cashola.

E (89:45)

You know, you bring up such a good point. And I think that that was something that really struck me. Watching some of these ads is I think, not just being recognizable and knowing which brand it's for, but does your brand have an authentic role to play? Can your brand tell this story? And I think that that's such a good example of a brand that. Great message. Maybe not the best kind of brand to. To share that message.

A (90:10)

Yeah.

C (90:11)

It's funny because I, you know, I was taking notes and I just put, like, sad face on that one because I was like, what was that, like, to your point, I think tone is so important. And, like, I think that's also the issue with, like, celebrity soup, right? Like, when you have a lot, it just. If it doesn't feel like there's a reason or a clear voice that you're trying to share, and it just feels like you're trying to have a celebrity on. In your. You know, in the mix at. At a dinner table with other celebrities. It doesn't, like, make any sense to the consumer, and that's not something that, like, we're used to. So, like, I love. I think that, like, people are drawn towards things that they can connect to. And, like, you know, I know Dove is still doing the same types of things. You know, the girl power they had, like, you know, the women athletes. And that was great. I also was going to ask you because, Annika, I think you brought it up, or maybe you did a million. But, you know, with the Olympics going on at the same time, do you think there was a little bit of, like. It's interesting because watching the Olympics, there's very specific types of ads that are playing, you know, big ads, you know, which are showcasing the athletes, et cetera, et cetera, which are really heartwarming. But I was, like, wondering, like, because it's exactly at the same time I was wondering if people were trying to choose, like, should we do the Olympic season versus doing the super bowl ad, or. Did you guys hear anything in your space about that?

E (91:49)

Yeah, absolutely. I. And I will also throw World cup into the mix as well. I know not in this current season, but it's definitely in conversation as people think about their media budgets for the year. And, yeah, I was really struck by the brands that weren't in the super bowl this year that I imagine they're doing that calculation and either showing up at the World cup or at the Olympics. Coca Cola, Nike, a lot of auto brands as well. Visa. Yeah. And I'm sure that is part of the calculation and looking at how much reach do you get for the dollars spent. And I'm sure that stretching it across the Olympics has similar impact to one spot in the Super Bowl.

B (92:28)

I think that's right. There was only really one spot that I thought tried to kind of bridge both worlds. And that was the Michelob Ultra, I think Ultra instructor spot, Right where they had Kurt Russell, who was reprising his sort of hockey coach character from Miracle. And I actually, I. I'd seen it not perform so well in some of the critical rankings. I enjoyed it in the moment, and it Got some laughs in the room that I was in. And I think it's, you know, look, they're very Olympics. Feels like a very different universe than the Super Bowl. It's a very. It's just. And I think that ad actually played well in the super bowl, and it has the potential to land very well throughout the course of the Olympics. So it will be. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the legendary February plays out.

A (93:29)

Well, that's what you want. Ideally, you know, you have to segment your audiences, but you can. If you get. If you get carryover and people stay with you, then you just bring. Bring on the campaign. It goes wherever you want it to go. All right, well, we don't have to fix anything. Thank goodness. This time, the ads were what they were. Any final thoughts? Any brands you want to see next year? Any brands you want to see do over next year? Final thoughts, Annika?

B (93:59)

I would love to see Microsoft come back to the super bowl and get back into its emotional and reconnect with some emotional storytelling. They had an ad for Copilot that was fine. I guess it just. It didn't feel. It felt like it didn't meet the moment of super bowl for me. And I do think Microsoft is a brand that touches everybody. I would love to see them really recommit to some powerful storytelling. They're a big brand. Use that moment to reconnect with consumers in a different way. So that's one I'd love to see back in the mix.

A (94:44)

Okay. I like that I go with William Shatner. What is he, 92? 92.

D (94:51)

Yeah.

A (94:52)

Proving that Raisin Bran belongs in the cultural conversation at Super Bowl. I would love to see that done in a. In another way where it's like everyone's just, like, can't get enough of Raisin Bran all of a sudden. There's got to be a way to crack it. It just. That wasn't it for me. Melissa, what do you think?

C (95:12)

Oh, my gosh. You know what? I. I would love to go like, Annika, I like some more traditional brands showing up again. You know, I. I feel like I. I like the, you know, new competitor, upstart. But to me, I felt like. I felt like I was missing some things. I, like, missed Coca Cola. You know, I wish that I would have seen some of those I loved. I will say I just loved the Lays ad. I thought that was so great. And it. It did kind of. It was nostalgia, right? But nostalgia in a way that wasn't. I felt like Duncan was trying to go for nostalgia with, like a 90s kind of thing going in. And it just didn't. It didn't resonate with me. So for me, I, you know, I loved, like, Levi's and some of these just kind of coming back to, like, this is who we are. So I like that.

A (96:06)

Yeah. And I like Levi's, too. Showing you own every piece of your brand, you know, whether it's the. The label or the inseam or the rivet, like, it's yours. Use it. I thought that was a good moment. Amelia, what do you think?

E (96:20)

Yeah, Melissa, I'm with you on that one. And I. I would put, you know, in terms of tone, humor back into the mix. I think, you know, when it's done simply effectively, it doesn't rely on tons of celebrities to deliver that and feel like it's a shtick. I think it can be very effective. And I think, you know, part of. I feel for marketers because I think now it is so expensive to enter the super bowl that there are so many eyeballs. There's so much pressure on these spots to do everything. My parting thought is I want people to feel free to use this as a space in a larger media plan. It doesn't have to do everything for your brand. Being clear, being simple, and using this as a moment to entertain and leave people with one thought about your brand rather than 10, I think hopefully will free everyone up to make these fun again and simple.

C (97:12)

Well, and I love. I love that. I also think, Annika, you brought this up, like, with Ro and Serena is like, if you have a celebrity spokesperson make that connection and lean all the way in, right? Because I think that the, like, the celebrity ad soup is just, you know, I don't. I don't get it. Like, what does so and so have to do with this brand, right? Like, if. If Instacart is going to lean into it, then Ben Stiller should be all over the place, right? He should. He should show up and to air, like, how Aaron likes a, you know, one of these scenari. He should be delivering for somebody and be like, hey, I know you said bananas, but I got you this. You know, that kind of thing. And it would be funny and he would be great. But then, like, you can identify it with it, because right now they're just throwing celebrities at ads, and I don't identify that brand with that celebrity.

E (98:09)

So, yeah, yeah, 100%.

A (98:11)

Yeah. Use those cultural moments and create your own. So I love that. Melissa, like, get.

C (98:16)

Wait.

A (98:16)

Ben Stiller's at My door, delivering my instacart during the game. And now there's a camera crew here. Like, you could use that as your next ad. Like, cut it in real time, you know, that would be incredible.

C (98:27)

Totally.

B (98:28)

Yeah.

E (98:28)

Because I think viewers can feel the pressure that has gone into these ads. Like, they can feel it when you're holding back or you're trying to cram everything in there so that you're ticking a box. And, you know, the more the ads that don't do that, I think really stand out. So more of that, hopefully in the future for sure.

A (98:46)

All right, brands, you got a year. Clock's ticking. Let's do this. Emilia, how can people keep up with what you're doing, the agency and all the good stuff?

E (98:55)

Oh, great question. We are active on LinkedIn. Lucky generals. We have a lot of fun campaigns coming out. I can't say which ones, but more to come from Universal for sure this year. So, yeah, stay tuned and give us a like and a follow. You know, maybe book a trip to Universal. Who's to say?

B (99:12)

Hey, had to do a shameless plug on board.

A (99:15)

You didn't hear it from us. You did. Annika, remind everybody. How can. How can we track up with what you're doing?

B (99:23)

Oh, thanks, Aaron. You can find me on LinkedIn. Annika Kobzev. I. I am the only one.

A (99:32)

Well, thank you so much for being our guest. Thanks for hashing it out with us and bringing. Bringing the commercials to the forefront. And like I said, we. We got. We got into this. It was a little. We didn't get it, too, to insider, you know, but, like, for those of us that are in the field, like, there's good stuff for us. And for those that just wanted to hear some talk back about the ads I think we got, we went to some interesting places. So I'm glad we did this.

B (99:59)

Me too. Awesome.

A (100:00)

Thank you to everyone who is listening. If you like what we're doing and you want to advertise your company on our podcast, we'll. We'll do it for 7 million. That's. That's last year's price. Guys, agents are standing by, so you better reach out to our team@advertisefixeditpod.com that's advertisefixeditpod.com. keep listening. Keep supporting your home team. They're going to go all the way next year. I can feel it. And we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every up. Somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.