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Welcome to We Fixed it. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies. You come along for the ride and we try to put them back better than we found them. When you hear the word luxury, you think of the good stuff. You pay more. And in return, what you get is better. A step up. Better materials, better craftsmanship, better everything. Whether you shell out $3,000 for a handbag or 700 bucks for sneakers, you're not just doing it to buy a product. You're paying a prem on purpose to associate yourself with the company behind that product. The brand, the label, the prestige. You're saying, I'm extra. I'm hot stuff. This is me. Or at least who I aspire to be. But what if it turns out the company behind that product isn't who you'd want to be? What if you love the look but you're not so sure about the business practices? How far does it have to go before the shine starts to wear off? And how can luxury brands and all fashion brands do better? Well, we're going to address all that and we're going to do it in style. Joining us today is Kirsten Harris. As managing partner and chief sustainability Strategist of Earth First Consultants, Kirsten has advised Fortune 500s across the fashion industry on products, strategies, and also business practices. Throughout her career, she's worked with Nordstrom, Lululemon, Amazon, Nike, and many, many more. In addition, she's the founder of the sustainable lifestyle apparel brand Evolu. She's impacted global fashion trends and we've got her. Hey, Kirsten, thanks for joining us. We're so happy to have you.
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A
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
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B
Yeah, Kirsten's a little under the weather and she's toughing it out for us. We'll go back to Evolu or just tell everyone just a little bit more about you.
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A
Well, Evolu, I created Evolu because, you know, I've been in the corporate world for over 20 years and then created Earth First Consultants to help mills, manufacturers and brands become more sustainable authentically. That's a big thing for me. And I was running into the issue where a lot of smaller brands thought they could not be sustainable because they didn't have the capital behind it. So I wanted to prove that they could. So to lead by example, I created Evolu Evolution of you. And it's made in the usa. It's comfortable, premium, quality and sustainable and impact driven.
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B
So thanks, Kirsten. You bring a ton of category experience and all of this, and I'm suddenly feeling underdressed for the occasion. But we can't stop now. Chino, take us into the world of luxury and high fashion. There's nothing for us to fix there, right?
- [03:30]
C
Maybe a little bit. And as you said too, Aaron, luxury is supposed to mean better when we talk about the materials, but specifically the standards when it comes to responsibility and sustainability. And when you're paying that premium on a handbag or whether it be a sneaker, you're not just buying the product, you're buying the ethical prestige. So here's the uncomfortable question that we want to ask. You know, what happens when the sustainability story doesn't match the proof when it comes to that cost of the premium? And this week we're really going to be diving into the the LVMH brand, which is the world's largest luxury group, controlling a portfolio that includes Louis Vuitton, Dior, Sephora, Loewe, Tiffany's, Mulberry. So many to name. And those are just a few of them. And the reason that they're at the center of this conversation is not because they're the only company that's under scrutiny, but it's because they're the biggest. And when a conglomerate of that scale sells craftsmanship and it tells you that they're being responsible and they're having a premium price, and they're repeatedly facing scrutiny over their labor practices and supply and trade transparency and other ESG claims, it's no longer a PR issue, it's a credibility issue for their entire portfolio. And so I'm going to take it back a little bit and share some context here. So in 2024, Dior, which is an LVMH brand, investigators found in an Italian court that they uncovered labor exploitation within their subcontracted suppliers. So subsequent reports flagged that there was also gaps in the UK supply chain as well, and they had outdated sustainability statements on their public page. And by 2025, Dior agreed to contribute 2 million euros, which is around 3 million USD, towards victim support and to help really monitor their supply chain. But just this year in March, Sephora, which is also owned by the LVMH brand, has now also faced scrutiny over their regulatory practices as well as with unfair commercial holdings. And so what's interesting about this is this is not an isolated event just about Dior. It looks like to be a broader problem within transparency and compliance across that portfolio. And when we zoom out further across the luxury sector, brands are increasingly being challenged to prove that they're not Net zero pledges their worker protections. Their sustainability narratives are more than just marketing language. Regulators are watching, investigators are watching, and so are the investors, along with the consumers. And so why does this all matter? In today's episode, we're not just saying and asking, is LVMH greenwashing? A lot of people are. But we're asking the harder and arguably the more important question in modern luxury, what is the premium that we're actually buying? And so we're going to jump into LVMH and get ahead, help them get ahead of the scandal before they start seeing their luxury brand not looking any better than the fast fashion of the world when we look at the Zara and Shen. So let's get into it. Kirsten, I'm very excited to have you here to dive in with us.
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A
Well, thank you, Gino. Yeah, this is definitely probably a great example because it's such a large brand and covers so many different types of companies. One thing that's important to separate here is that Louis Vuitton is more of a labor issue versus Sephora is more of a regulatory issue. But you are correct in that they all fall under esg and it's neither should be happening. This should be very specifically spelled out in their plan up front and not an afterthought. And that happens a lot with luxury brands and other brands as well. This first got really noticed, I would say in the mid-90s and since then, because, you know, this has to do with third party contractors, they've really a lot of companies, brands, apparel brands especially, have really, really tried to work on transparency and you know, being clear. But you know, defining sustainability is really difficult for a company to do internally and then to know their consumer does it or define sustainability because it can be very, two very different answers. So it's important to understand what the, their definition is and to build the structure in place. And that includes the workers. That's a very important part of it, the worker's voice to make sure that these types of things don't happen.
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B
It's interesting. Thanks, Kirsten. The lvmh, it's one of those conglomerate companies you don't think about and you hear those names in that brand portfolio. There's no, there's not a dud. There's not a dud in there. They've done a great job of curating and cultivating their brand family. But I wonder, you know, with a company of that size, you hear about these things, these situations come up industry wide. Maybe this company may, maybe outside, but are these systematic issues across, you know, the, the, what do you. Speculation, you know, the, the parent company and the way that they reinforce running the businesses or with a company that size where it's, there's a name, an umbrella name over everything. Are these individual companies acting, you know, the way that they companies act and is it just a matter of timing or the, you know, the recency that these things have happened not simultaneously, but pretty, pretty close together?
- [09:50]
D
I think there's a couple things that we have to unpack here because I think that there's the sustainability issue, traceability, et cetera, which is definitely one part of it. But Aaron, you bring up a very good point. LBMH is huge. The number of houses underneath it are in of itself. Each of them stand alone.
- [10:14]
C
Right.
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D
And are their own brand. And so as you get bigger, that oversight over each of those areas is just practically almost impossible. And so when we're talking about this greenwashing chino and the problem that we're trying to fix around sustainability, it really seems like that visibility into real time, what's happening, tighter subcontractor controls, documented wages and labor practices and working conditions, all of this is really difficult to unpack. And it ends up being more of a compliance issue which when you're talking about a luxury brand and you're paying a premium, you want it to be more than just a compliance. Right. You want it to be built into the brand. And so I do feel like they're in a difficult position because, you know, it's like whack a mole. You got one brand that's on track, then you got another that's not. And it's, you know, you're dealing with other countries where it's very loose you know, where, how it's happening. And then on top of that, I really think a big component of that is when we think about today's customer, do customers care? Okay, And I mean this in a very, you know, I have luxury brand items as well, you know, but I think they care differently. I don't think it's that they don't care. I think they care differently. And data suggests sustainability is still super important. Very top of mind. But consumers now are more skeptical, right, because of these types of situations that they're in. They're more price sensitive. We're in this economic world where, you know, I may not want to be spending thousands of dollars on a purse, you know, and I'm less willing to accept the vague claims that have been out there for the last couple decades. Right. So what's changed is really that behavior gap. People say they value sustainability, but they're not willing to pay more unless there's the product delivers on that quality, convenience and proof. So, for example, PwC did a data survey and found 85% of consumers say climate impacts affects their lives. And their willingness to pay for sustainability was only at 9.7%.
- [12:45]
B
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A
It's really interesting because I have run into this with, you know, building my own small, sustainable brand and the challenges around that. When you're talking about the luxury market, you are absolutely correct that there is enough margin, there's enough premium built in there. They're buying the status, they're buying the heritage, they're buying, you know, they're just buying it for having that luxury piece and being part of something special and there's room in there. Unfortunately, a lot of those brands are older brands because they built up this heritage. So in the beginning, when they first did their compliance plans or did their working on their esg, they did not take into consideration everything that's come forward in the last 20 years. Let's say there's a lot more visibility and transparency now, and we're really seeing that in the luxury brands. When you're talking about more of a mid tier or lower brand, not fast fashion, we won't go fast fashion. It gets difficult for the consumer that shops at Nordstrom, shops at Target, gets home with both their bags, and they're like, okay, I want to be sustainable. I want, you know, I love it. But then they're like, but I need to take something back. And so a lot of times sustainability falls down on the list. And I think that came up in Melissa's statistics, especially for the United States, is that the consumer usually puts comfort quality over sustainability at this point in time, just because there's such a premium charge on creating that sustainability. And then there's also the white noise that there is. A lot of consumers are just like, okay, sustainability. I don't believe it. You know, it becomes a lot of white noise. So it's reframing the issue, defining what sustainability is and using different terminology and just being very direct with your consumers about your policies and what you stand behind. And it's very different in the luxury market versus other markets.
- [16:49]
C
Yeah, I want to tap in here too, because I think, you know, focusing on the LVMH brand, right? That's luxury. And as you said, Kirsten, there's a premium. Like people are spending $3,000 for a sock. You know, some, some, some brands, right. And we know that it doesn't cost $3,000 for sock. And so they have the margins to do the sustainable thing. And it goes back to the question of this ethical prestige. If I'm spending $3,000 for a sock, I'm wanting it to be crafted from someone, you know, maybe in home base or in Europe, knowing that it is not a slave trade labor. That is the point and the why the cost is so much higher versus yeah. That I can go to the fast fashions of the world and spend $2 on a sock. And I know kind of what I'm purchasing with that. Versus, again, that ethical prestige. And my question to you, lvmh, as this, as the biggest Congo conversation conglomerate in luxury, is do you not have a responsibility to do the right thing? So, yes, things have changed, which I, again, you also, I'm hoping, are hiring the best people. You're, you're making sure that the talent in the pool is there. You're, you're hiring Kirsten to make sure that your sustainability efforts and consultants are up to date in 2026 standard and, and that you're not sharing something on your website that is completely a false narrative of what is what the investigators found. And so for me, it goes back to if you don't do these things, I don't really want to be spending $3,000 on a sock anymore if it's the same slave labor as a $3 sock. And I think that is the question to LVMH of how much does your brand and that luxury feel is important to you? Because otherwise then you just become a part of the lower tier, like the Zara is like maybe the second tier even. But again, at that premium, we're expecting more. And so my question, I guess to the team and I think, Aaron, for you too, from a branding perspective, like, if they keep having these scandals, I'm going to start looking at these really notable brands a little differently and pause. And maybe I go to another luxury event because I'm like, you know, maybe it isn't what you're, you're saying that it is maybe this and as crafted as well. If this is what's being investigated.
- [19:21]
B
Yeah, totally. You know, if you're, if you're voting with your wallet as a consumer, especially as you hit the upper echelons and you care, sustainability and fair sourcing and all those things just is one of those conditions you care about, then you want to, you want to be sold a Story, not just a product. So you want to know. This is from, I don't know, yak in the Himalayas that is only, only born every 200 years. And you know, the yak fur just drops off naturally in the, in the wind and it's gathered and by people who are paid well for it, you know, and it took that journey to, to arrive to me and you know what I mean? Like, you're. Whether a sock or a code or whatever, if that's what you care about, you're going to care about the evolution of what you bought and not just the finished product. So voting with your wallet. We're looking at those different triggers. Like, is it the, the, the sourcing of the material that's important? Is it the integrity of the material and the, what they call it, cost per unit, cost per wear or something like that? Where, how long it holds up over time? Is it the exclusiveness? There's only one, one yak in the world that does this. So, you know, whatever those conditions are, I think that adds the premium to the premium to the exclusivity, which is what, what people pay for in marketing. Right. And, and what companies hope for, especially in this type of industry, is, and is, do we have something that has an ex, an exclusivity to it? Are we creating a, you know, some, some type of rarefied air? If you own one of these, you're, you're one of us. And there's only a few of us.
- [20:53]
D
Kirsten, I want to get your opinion on this because you brought this up about your company, about the authenticity and the messaging is to keep sustainability from becoming just marketing and brand wallpaper. We really need to tie, you know, measurable proof and evidence that from a product level and from third party and audit and compliance. I've talked about this again, about making sure that they're actually doing the right things. And I think that to Aaron's point, we need credibility like we need the, the gap is right now those brands, even though they're luxury brands, are facing a credibility issue, authenticity issue. Right. And so how do you frame that narrative when research is showing there's more and more skepticism rising sharply around the world, around these brands and around, you know, the nature of sustainability initiatives. Are they vague? Are they unverified? How do we verify them? And how do we focus on not allowing greenwashing to be rewarded, but really focusing on the authenticity and what it is supposed to be standing on and that platform around sustainability? So, Kirsten, what would you walk into that boardroom and say how do we change that narrative?
- [22:22]
A
Melissa, you bring up a really great point because a lot of times in the boardroom they don't. It depends how connected they are to the actual product. You know, there's a long line there from the people making the decisions to the people that are talking to the factory workers and making those decisions. And there's a lot of price points in between. And unfortunately, that's where a lot of the problems come into play. But I think it's critical that, you know, transparency is always part of your plan. And third party mapping and audits. I've always said, you know, if you have a factory, you need to have boots on the ground and you need to be checking that factory. You can't rely on somebody else all the time. And like lvmh, you know, they got. It was more of a third party contractor and just, I just want to make sure that everybody knows. Tina, you mentioned something about me and lvmh. I have not worked with LVMH at all. So just to clarify that, if that, that was thought. But yeah, it's, it's, it's getting that message across and keeping up with the technology. Because technology is changing so fast. I mean, right now you can get a hang tag or a garment tag, scan it and you can go all the way from fiber to the end. You will have the complete story of that garment. That technology is expensive, so a lot of brands cannot afford it. But, but it's worth putting the money into and hopefully will become less expensive as it becomes more available to more people and more brands, I should say. But technology is changing just so quickly that I think a lot of the older brands, like the big conglomerates, have so many different brands doing so many different things that they have so many different supply chains that they can't keep up. It's not just apparel, it's not just cosmetics, it's alcohol, it's, you know, whatever. It's all of these different things that really take. It's basically the same concept. You've gotta be aware of your suppliers. You've got to know who your workers are. You need supply chain transparency throughout audits. You know, the whole thing. So it comes down to the, the, the same story. But when it comes to premium brands, there is absolutely no excuse that they can't just sit down one by one and go through where their brand is, what they believe in, what they're telling their customers, and that they're toeing the line. What they're telling their customers is matching what they're actually doing. And that's a lot of times where the disconnect is, is the marketing is actually not going back into the words that were put into
- [25:29]
B
Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoft offer while supplies last ends June 30 terms@akams.college PC. Okay, but I like what you're saying. I like everything you're saying. But that's a lot of soul searching. That's a lot of stop the presses. That's a lot of self analysis and self critique. Companies aren't known for that. So you know, why would they put themselves through that? Do, do consumers really care about that? Tracing the origins and sources, or do they care about is it here, is it in Dallas and is it getting to my house in two days? Do they care about, you know, the, there's price, there's transparency in markups. Like everyone knows shark, shark tank, right? They one of the main questions is what does it cost you? What do you sell it for? Consumer like we're all hyper aware that companies make, you know, especially with a slap, a label on something that means something that has prestige around it. There's a, you know, and there's a multiple attached to that. But you still see it in a store, in a well lit showroom and you say ooh, I want that. And you understand the company's making money off you. So you know, let's just play it out. Like why, why should companies put that much work into something that consumers might not even care? Or do they care about? But maybe they don't.
- [27:04]
D
I think they do now because I think luxury used to rely on mystique and that it was a name, it was a brand, right? But now it also has to rely on that verifiable data, brands that can show credible product histories. Just like Kirsten mentioned, you know, the journey of from fiber to actual end product can strengthen that loyalty. While brands that stay vague risk looking polished on the outside, but on the surface and underneath they're empty. Right? So traceable luxury items let a shopper or a customer scan, ask and verify where it came from, who made it, what standards were used, et cetera, et cetera, and what happens next, especially as it goes on that journey from repair to resale, all of those kinds of things. And so it's increasingly becoming a part of the product experience and the whole life cycle of that product, not just the supply chain component of it, where it starts, you know, which is really what we're talking about with the sustainability. But I do think when you're talking about luxury items, it's kind of like car facts, right? Like you go on and you go to buy a purse, you know, you want to know, like, oh, was this water damaged? And it's all been fixed, you know, like, I don't really want that. Like, same thing with a car, like, has it been totaled? And I'm not. I don't really want a car that's been in an accident like that. Right. You know, that kind of thing. So I do think that, like, when you're thinking about that, you're really making an investment in something. When you're talking about these luxury products, it's not, you know, for some people, yes, the minutiae that can afford to buy a bunch of Hermes, you know, bags, whatever. But like, I do think that for most people that, you know, purchase it, it's a very meaningful, emotional purchase. And so you gotta rely on that. And as that brand, you need to think about that. Like, I don't want to spend my money. If I'm going to, I'm going to pick a different brand that I feel aligns with what I want, my personal mission. Right.
- [29:15]
C
I agree with everything. And I want to go back to Aaron's point of why, why do this? And I think where LVMH has missed the mark, particularly with your is they had statements on their website saying we are doing this and that statement, the trouble. So I agree with Kirsten and you, Melissa. It's the ideal for some, for some customers, it's going to be very important to walk through the entire life cycle. I would love to know that my sock is the 1 yak out of 10 years, given that'd be so cool. And again, why I would pay for that premium. Sometimes it's just the heritage and it's the brand. It's having the Swang with the Loewe logo on it.
- [29:55]
D
Right.
- [29:55]
C
Like, that's sometimes that's all that is. And where I think LVMH can protect the halo of the portfolio is saying, okay, if we're going to make a statement, we're going to make sure we're going to back that statement up. And I want to also clarify not saying you worked at LVMH I'm saying they should hire you to be their third party consultant because it is important to have Kirstens of the world to make sure that if you're going to make a statement on sustainability, you're actually walking the Walk in 2026 standards. Right? Bring your brand up to where we are today. And if you're not going to do that, that's okay. Not everyone's going to claim to be sustainable. Right. We do have this white noise that is happening and that's also fair too. But the point is of the ethical prestige. If you're saying, you know, I'm paying a premium because you know you're going to get the very best and you know all of these fixers are going to handcraft the beautiful woven sock for you, but actually it's not. We're, we're outsourcing that and doing slave labor that doesn't feel well. And you're also like, then why am I paying again, $3,000 for a sock? It doesn't make sense. And I think the big thing that LVMH as a brand needs to do is get ahead of, of these scandals before it impacts the rest of other brands to lower that credibility. Because if we just feel like this is what you're doing, you're just telling us something, but you're doing something, you know, subpar when you're supposed to be luxury. I'm not trusting your brand anymore as the lvmh. And again, I love, I think they're doing really cool designer things, pushing boundaries. If you're a part of LVMH and I'm seeing this, I might not want to buy that robo bag anymore. And so I think that's where they need to get ahead of it. And either take some of these statements down, bring people like Kirsten in to make sure you're really holding yourself accountable at the production line, or quietly walk it back. Right? You know, if people really don't care, then fine. But just don't make a statement that you can't upkeep.
- [32:16]
D
You know, I have a line story to that. Chino, I think you brought up a really great point, is that, like, you need to be honest with your customers about what you can deliver. Right. And set that expectation right away. One of the things that I thought was really interesting in one of my previous roles was that we had a really high expectation for something that we were going to fix. We were going to fix your car. And less than a week, okay, that never happened because we had to deal with subcontract. We had to deal with an auto shop. We had to deal with, you know, we didn't. We couldn't control all of that stuff, paint, whatever it might be. So I went in there thinking, okay, like, if I'm a customer, if you told me my car could get fixed in two weeks and it gets fixed in 10 days, I'm excited. Right? And all of a sudden, our scores, our NPS and everything went through the roof. And I'm just saying. But we were honest and we. And it was so interesting because I had a lot of these national companies coming in asking us about that, because the average time to fix your car was seven days, right? And we were, we were telling customers, we can get you that car in 14 days. And we had better scores because our customers were happier because we were hitting 10 days. You know what I mean? And it was funny because I said it's because we were being honest with them. And so they knew not to expect their car back.
- [33:45]
C
Right?
- [33:45]
D
They knew that. And so I think that's the same type of idea there, Chino, where we're saying, we know that you understand the sustainability is important, traceability is important, all of these things. Working with your third party vendors. We also know that there are things outside of your control. So why don't you be honest about what you can control and what you want that narrative to be. And so maybe you go from this number of like 100% of our labor forces, you know, above the age of 18 and, you know, yeah, right. Okay. Not. Maybe not there.
- [34:22]
C
Right.
- [34:23]
D
You know, but you can say that we're working to constantly improve working conditions. You know, if there are children working in these areas, we are identifying those areas and building schools and trying to, you know, whatever they're trying to do so that they're being realistic that, like, we can try to control what we can control, but we can't control the fact that we go to Vietnam and everybody is under the age of 18 that's working in this, you know, sneaker store, you know, what, whatever it might be. So I love that, Chino, because I do feel like that is the key about authenticity, Kirsten, that we've talked about.
- [35:01]
C
Right?
- [35:01]
D
Like, how do you use that narrative in a way that helps you? And I think that, like by just posting something clearly that is like a, A decal on the wall. Right. But you can't live to it. It just, it just feels very false.
- [35:19]
A
I think a lot of people are really beginning to see through all of this. As well. They're tired of just seeing the pretty picture. They know it's not as pretty as it looks. It's almost like you're looking at a facade, you know, just this pretty building, but it's just hollow inside. And I think consumers are getting wiser. And if they truly do care about sustainability, they want that transparency. And there's no reason that a company or a conglomerate like LVMH can't afford to have that traceability on every single one of their products because they have the room in their margins to do so. Not every company can do that, but every company can be honest about what they are doing and what they want to do. And I think people understand that story of, you know, we want to help the little guy. We, we understand that you're struggling now, but you're heading in the right direction. And that's always been my message when I'm working with smaller brands is, you know, every decision you make every day, just take it one step in the right direction, just one step at a time. Sustainability, you know, what is your packaging, you know, what is your shipping? Are you using carbon neutral shipping? You know, just every single step, go through the process and have that transparency available if your customers are curious, but make sure that it's kept up to date. And I think that's where a lot of retailers fall short, is their websites are kind of this other department, it's it or whoever. And it's like they live over there. We're over here in the real world dealing with our suppliers, the supply chain. We got to get this done, this done. Oh, we got to drop that. This dropped out of production, whatever. And it never quite. The messages never quite connect. And I think that people need to all have a seat at the table
- [37:18]
D
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B
Yeah, we. Kirsten, we were talking about someone mentioned whack a mole earlier. Isn't, isn't it constant? Or you can add to the whack a mole in an ecosystem like this because, you know, you have segmented departments and, and someone is in charge of Supplying and sourcing and someone's in charge of manufacturing and someone's in charge of, you know, distribution. And you've got the, you've got the actual suppliers themselves and you've got a brand family that is under one parent umbrella. So isn't there always a way to shift the responsibility to say, well, it wasn't us, it was this isolated supplier or it wasn't the parent company. There was one. There's one company within our portfolio that needs some work or, you know, we tried our best as a family brand under this company we were given. You know, there's some governance issues with our parent company. Can you always just say someone else? Someone else?
- [38:37]
C
I think if lvmh, again, it's two brands out of a lot. So there, again, it's helping them get ahead of anything worse happening in a world where people are caring more, they have the capital. This is not a small brand. This is someone where you can hire an LVMH specific, you know, internal audit where you're going to all of your brands to make sure you don't have these scandals. That's not a good look. Dior, I love your makeup. I don't want, I don't want to hear that. I want to see that. I'm actually going to go to Sephora, even though it's a world, and go and purchase somewhere else. Right. If I'm. If this, these scandals continue to pop up under the umbrella, you have the capital to bring in internal auditors. Kirsten, I think it's beautiful what you shared too, of just the disjointed conversations. Hire someone to bring it all together. Right? That's what they should be doing. So that again, we're not focusing the blame. And maybe saying in your statement we're doing better or we're aiming to where we're just doing 1% better each day of having that transparency across the departments. And maybe that's like their first quarter goal. It's not changing the supplier, but it's saying, hey, we realize that the boardroom, we're kind of missing marks here and we're not seeing gaps because we're not talking to each other. So this is our first action in Q1, Q2. Right. And then continue to build from there. But if the largest conglomerate in luxury street is not able to do that, how can you expect anyone else to? And I think again, in a world where fast fashion is, is on the rise, if it's not mainstream and people are starting to look at fast fashion differently, if I'M a luxury man where I'm again, $3,000 for a sock. I don't want to be associated with that. I want my demographic. I want my customers to want to spend $3,000 because they know we're not these people. So for that market differentiation, lvmh, it's essential. It's a part of their DNA as a heritage luxury brand. And if they don't do that and they don't take these fixes, you will be no better than Shen, and that will be a really, really, really cold day in hell. Yeah, that is a problem.
- [41:02]
D
I, you know, I, I like what you say, though, Gina, too, because, and Kirsten, I think that one of the things is that they do have the capital, they have the power to make these significant changes. And they're a business. Let's get real. Like, they're not a nonprofit. So, you know, sustainability is one initiative of many. And so one of the things they could do is look across the table and do more collaborations. So, like, for example, around strengthening, you know, these vendor controls and traceability, build that into a truly trademarked, you know, copyrighted traceability action and product like QR codes or something like that. So, you know, like, I think about your pets, you know, putting a little tracker in your, in your pets, but like, doing something like that so that, like, people have the visibility and the transparency to see where their product has been and coming from. But also it helps to eliminate or not eliminate, but, like, wave off their big issue with counterfeit. Right. Stuff. So, like, they could use it as a business platform, not just a sustainability platform. And I think then they could get more minds thinking about it, more teens thinking about it working cross functionally across the table. And I think that we've also seen, you mentioned this very early on, and I, you know, I don't want to, Kirsten, I don't want to not talk about this, but people at the table haven't gone into a store. When was the last time they went into the store? And if they went in there and try to help a customer, would it look like the CEO of McDonald's eating a hamburger? Like, I have a feeling that, like, if you were to have them actually go into their store and see what a drag it is, is it a luxury experience? And are you listening to what your customers are saying? It also might transform what they decide, how they decide to re. Pivot or whatever you want to call it, these initiatives. Right? Because, you know, if I can go to Canal street and buy the same Prada purse Okay. You know, and it looks pretty good.
- [43:33]
B
Yeah. But it's got, it's got two D's in it.
- [43:36]
D
Well, they've gotten better about that. They like they're even giving you the little sacks with the thing. So like, you know, I, I think that like it's, it's definitely, you know, you know, one of those things that you have to think about. Like I want to know that this is really verifiable and I have something that you know and it will transform the resale market as well. Like if it's a traceable article and it's being sold on the real real. Okay.
- [44:07]
C
I, Melissa, I want to add to that too because I think from a sustainability factor and Kirsten, jump in any at any point. Right. Resale is a huge sustainability opportunity for again luxury brands. We have the realreal that their whole brand is reselling you luxury goods. And lvmh, maybe this is the way to do that. And from a business perspective you're not making anything new. Right. You're selling your old inventory and that's genius businessman. Don't give it to the realreal. And sorry to anyone from the real real that's listening, maybe they should do that internally. And I love the idea of having something traceable where, you know, from tag to store. We'll figure out a better way to market that. Aaron. But I think it's a great opportunity.
- [45:00]
D
Yeah, I love that idea of them doing the resale within there. Right. You know, and it's just showing this, this 360 view of like the sustainable is not just from where it starts but from where it ends and it continues to grow. You know, it continues to have life. And you know there are companies that, where they say like hey, if your sizes change or you're doing this or that, you know, like Everlane, they'll be like here, call us, we'll send you a bag, put your old things in here and you'll get a credit and resell them for you. And so I think that there is, I mean obviously luxury brands. Like, you know, it makes it way more affordable for people to come into it. And then it also, like I said, controls that counterfeit noise out there.
- [45:47]
A
It does and it doesn't because like on Poshmark they've done a really good job and Wheelreal's done a really good job and they have very strict policies but I like to keep an eye on things like this and every once in a while you will have some bad actors on there and they are really good about kicking them off right away and refunding the customer's money. So to your point, Avalu is about to launch Second Chance by Evolu. We originally had it side by side but because the price points are so different and it's focused on very different things, reclaimed fabrics, dead sock and then also upcycling garments on Second Chance by Evolu will be catching that. And I think a lot more retailers are doing things like that. Lululemon's doing that. They have their, you know, their previously lived in line or. And I think it's really successful. But as far as counterfeiting goes, I think it's going to be very difficult unless you really are able to trace all the way from the consumer's hand and then all the way into the upcycling process. That track, it's going to be difficult for a lot of people to know if it's real or not. When you're coming to the luxury, going back to luxury items.
- [47:15]
B
Well, and I want to see these $3,000 socks too. I think we should pool our resources. All right, well and one more point to make is that these fashion houses, the legendary, the Gucci's and Pradas and Diors and all that, they're, they're not just competing against one another. You've got, you've got the TikTok style things that you know, command a premium all of a sudden and everybody wants them and, and then they come and go. You've got brand collabs. So you could have Burger King do a collab with a sneaker company and those could go for $2,000. So you know, you've got that traditional house versus house mentality. But it's, there's a wide open playing field too. So competition could come from anywhere. And especially if you're diluting your market appeal or you're giving consumers reasons to not like you, they're probably going to spend their money somewhere else. So. All right, so I think we have enough to fix this. I'm going to pull it together. So we're saying take accountability for your actions. Even if you're at the parent company, you took on a big responsibility. You've got a bunch of brand houses under, under your umbrella, lbmh. They all belong to you. So be a good parent, do incremental change. If you're going to try change, you know, one day at better, one day at a time and if you walk back policies, if you have to take down your, your pledges and you know, some people will understand Some people have never looked at those. Some people will drop you and say, sorry, you're not who you thought I were, but. So there'll be pushback and you'll lose customer part of your customer base, but it's, it's more true to what you can actually fulfill. And, you know, there will be a percentage that'll just say, okay, no big deal, remember, or take an opportunity, take a marketing opportunity to make sourcing part of your story. So from a point of origination down the, down the line to, you know, how, how ethically and responsibly the product was handled and going back to that point by point tracker. So not just that it came from this factory to here to here, but you know what? Tell me everything. You know, as much as I want to know, if I want to spend a couple hours looking at the sourcing of this garment that I just purposely paid a premium for because I not only love the fit and the fabric, but I love everything your company's doing. Fill me up with knowledge. I want to know, make, make that part of the premium experience that I purchased. I'm thinking maybe lvmh, they're powerful enough, maybe they could set some type of industry standard or credential or benchmark or something that says, we are stepping up on behalf of our industry and we've created this new certification. It's achievable, it's attainable. It's not just to force competition out, but let's make our voice heard because we have so much influence over our industry. We're rising to the standard. Who's with us? And invite competitors to come on board. Why not? And then I love the resale market. So owning your own resale market, I think that's a tremendous opportunity. Not to put the resale websites and things out of business. But yeah, if, you know, I know they want to sell us new stuff, you know, yellow is not in anymore, whatever it is, but still, someone's going to want them. So why not, you know, create this nice little closed loop ecosystem where you're prolonging the useful life of your products and you're finding a secondary audience that maybe will never buy your, your, your spring collection, but they'll buy something because they want, they want to participate, you know, and okay, so it's, it's slightly loved. Like, okay, who cares? Let them in. So let's do that. Let's just give them that grab bag and say, here you go, Melissa. Did we fix it?
- [51:03]
D
I think we gave them a lot to think about. I think it's a lot to fix. I do think that they need to work on Prud, proving the traceability, making sure it's visible, it's authentic, and it's in language that is an experience for the actual client. So kind of a show me experience. So, like you can scan something when you go home and you can see, you know, start to finish. I would love something like that, like, tells the story of the product. It would be pretty cool. You know, sometimes you get those cards in, in, in a package you get from after you bought it and it says packaged by Melissa. Right. You know, or, or this was carefully crafted by Melissa. You know, that would be, you know, a fun thing to kind of put some identity around the product. I do agree that I love, you know, adding, repair, resale, all of those to that entire experience as well. You know, I think it's easy to say audit more, strengthen those subtractor controls. I don't know how easy that will be. Especially, you know, Chino, you mentioned, like, the number of brands under lvma. You know, they've got to sense some accountability and you want it to feel like from a customer's side, it's not just a checklist of things that they've done. It feels more authentic to the entire initiative. Lastly, something that you didn't mention, but I think, you know, we kind of touched on a little bit, but is also really training the people and the staff that are dealing with the customers, so the client facing staff in the stores where, whether it's online or, you know, in person, to really be able to talk to some of the claims that have been coming up, you know, Gino, like, oh, you know, I, I, you know, kind of questioning whether this, you know, Dior purse or tie is really worth it, you know, and really being able to have a common story to tell and also being able to share that information upwards. Because oftentimes we focus on fixing something that actually now no longer matters to the customer. It's something else. Right. So I think that would be a good way of connecting the executive table to the actual customer. And I think that's something that needs to be done.
- [53:23]
B
All right, good stuff. Thanks, Melissa. Chino, your topic. Did we fix it?
- [53:28]
C
I think we did. Luxury should always mean better quality, period. Lvmh, you built a brand around that. And I think the same way you look at and you tell the story of a $3,000 wool sock and the craftsmanship that goes around that, I want to hear how that came to me. And I love this idea of training the people, having that a part of your brand story within all of your family of brands, it's imperative for you to do that to stay luxury. Right. I don't think there's going to be a day anytime soon where this is going. You will not be luxury with any of these brands, but I think with repeated scandal, that can happen. Right? There's more competition and, you know, the market share is getting smaller. And I think to continue to stand out is be the standard in the industry, knowing that you are the biggest, put a claim and just be honest. We are not asking for perfection. We're asking for honesty. And if you can do that and you can put some resource into making sure that, you know, the parents are keeping all the kids in line, I think you can get ahead of this and you will continue to thrive as a heritage brand, you know, 200, 300 years from now.
- [54:51]
B
Thanks, Gina. That's great, Kirsten. We are asking LVMH to spend money and. And put themselves under the microscope and create a ripple effect across the industry. Not just, you know, there's the high, high end, ultra premium, but it's gonna go. It's gonna permeate like this would. Everything we're saying, it's kind of seismic. Is it worth doing? Do we fix it?
- [55:16]
A
I think we fixed the direction. I think the real fix is moving luxury from the storytelling to actually controlling the systems and having fewer claims, stronger evidence, tighter subcontractor, governance, auditing, worker protection, public accounting. And yeah, this is how luxury protects the premium.
- [55:43]
B
So still work to do?
- [55:45]
A
Yes.
- [55:47]
B
All right, well, that's going to button up this episode. We tried to tie up all the loose threads. Before we sashay away, I'd like to give thanks to Chino and Melissa and to our wonderful guest, Kirsten Harris. Kirsten, how do we check out Evolu and how do we keep up with what you're doing?
- [56:03]
A
You can find evoludstrom or evolu.come a v o l u.com and basically we are foundational apparel. So we don't have. We're not changing collections and styles. We're legacy apparel, basically foundation of your wardrobe. You put your unique style on top of Evolu and that way it'll stay in your closet for years until you want to upcycle it.
- [56:29]
B
Oh, very cool. All right, go check out Evolu. And thanks, Kirsten. Thank you to our listeners, our fixaholics. Whether you're high couture, you buy off the rack, or the clearance tags in the back. We're glad you tune in. You can listen in sweatpants. We won't even know. As long as you listen, we're happy. Remember that trends come and go, but good business practices are always in fashion. We will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels.
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