Ep 258: Judd Apatow

Summary

We Might Be Drunk – Episode 258: Judd Apatow

Release Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Mark Normand, Sam Morril
Special Guest: Judd Apatow
Location: NYC
Episode Description:
NYC comedians Mark Normand and Sam Morril host legendary writer, director, and producer Judd Apatow, with Bill Burr and Tom Segura joining throughout for an in-depth comedy roundtable covering road life, international comedy, peeves, drinks, the art of movie-making, and the modern state of comedy—with classic stories and plenty of laughter (and drinks).

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Episode Overview

This episode is a comedic deep-dive into international touring, the culture of comedy across countries, and the inner workings of showbiz and film—all anchored by Judd Apatow, who opens up about his career, documentary projects, and philosophy of comedy. The group shares wild road stories, industry woes, and candid memories about icons like Rodney Dangerfield, Norm Macdonald, Diane Keaton, and Martin Scorsese, all in the show's signature loose, riff-heavy tone.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life on the International Comedy Road

• European Tours:

  • Tom Segura and Bill Burr exchange stories about recent tours—covering Oslo, Dublin, Paris, Athens, Rome, Milan, Stockholm, Helsinki, Barcelona, and Amsterdam.
  • Comic camaraderie abroad: comics “glom” to each other like seeing ambassadors in foreign lands.
  • Describing audiences: Stockholm described as “the best crowd” (06:12), while Helsinki and Amsterdam get called “tough, efficient, not expressive.”
  • Segura on Dutch crowds: “You get off and they’re like, 'It was amazing.' You’re like, tell your face. I’m dying up here.” (07:30)

• Cultural Observations:

  • Endless art and beauty, weird food (reindeer, whale), sauna cultures in Scandinavia, and struggles with foreign ATMs and the quest for drip coffee.
  • Debating the North American "bar culture" vs. European bar scenes: “I like the communal thing...whereas, like Milan, it’s just, you’re at a table outside with your group...I like the idea I can meet someone at a bar.” (09:41)

• Romantic Escapades:

  • Segura recounts a fun but failed attempt to invite a Liverpool woman to London—ending with her bailing out of fear of “being trafficked”—leading to a bit about the fear of trafficking fading as women age. (11:00)

2. Comedy Peeves and Customs

• European Peeves:
  • Trouble with unplanned museum visits; Van Gogh and Anne Frank House booked months out.
  • Difficulty getting good drip coffee: “I'm sick of the Americano...Give me a drip where you can just pour it out of a pitcher." (15:36)
  • Resenting slow hotel check-ins for weary travelers, complicated rental cars, and ATMs swallowing cards.
• Cultural Nitpicks:
  • American comics get mixed receptions socially: “my buddy Chase is trying to meet chicks, the second he says 'American', they’re like, ugh...I love when they ask me what's up with the tariffs, I'm like, I didn't do it!” (17:02)
• On “home”:
  • Vacation fatigue and returning home: “At what point do you go, I'm ready to get back? I think literally right at the end.” (09:24)

3. Modern Comedy and Showbiz Realities

• International Scenes:

  • Polish stand-up is booming—Segura wants to play Warsaw and Krakow (20:09).
  • Comics are drawn to “smaller venues where you sell out” vs. playing big, half-empty theaters: “Just put me in an 800 and we'd sell two. Great.” (22:03)

• Travel and Drinking:

  • The myth of “no hangover” with natural wine (“Turns out if you drink enough alcohol, you will still have a bad hangover.” (22:56))
  • Fears of leg cramps from travel drinking and lack of sleep—“Alone in my room, screaming.” (24:14)

4. Judd Apatow on Comedy, Docs, and the Industry

• Behind the Book:

  • Apatow’s new book discussed, described as “fancy” with thick, heavy, textured pages, and rare photos.
  • The rarity of photos pre-iPhone era—even major comedians have only “eight photos” from key times (34:48).

• Apatow’s Early Career:

  • Stories from writing for The Critic (42:16) and Larry Sanders, being the only non-Ivy League guy in the room.
  • How Larry Sanders was about “people who love each other, but show business gets in the way” (51:13).
  • Lessons in running writers' rooms and how to handle tough note-giving from execs (86:10).

• Movie War Stories:

  • Difficulty getting Anchorman made, Will Ferrell’s original script set on a mountain with chimpanzees and throwing stars (96:53).
  • Inviting Paul Thomas Anderson to help edit Funny People—and how a film’s "voice" can suddenly become someone else’s (80:44).

• Comedy as Art and Commerce:

  • The death of the “mid-budget” comedy film thanks to streaming and the end of DVD sales; optimism that a big hit could re-open the market.
  • Importance of strong dialogue in comedy films, referencing Clerks and Swingers as models for low budget, joke-driven dialogue (91:26).

5. On Comedy Legends: Reminiscence and Documentaries

• Rodney Dangerfield:

  • Anecdotes about seeing Rodney perform and hang-out stories: “He murdered as hard as you can murder...had such a mastery of the one liners.” (38:44)
  • Dangerfield’s legendary insecurity: “He always thought he wasn’t getting respect...maybe the guy who got the most respect out of everybody.” (38:15)

• Norm Macdonald Doc Announcement:

  • Apatow confirms he’s directing a Norm doc—drawn entirely from archive Norm footage, not talking heads: “We didn’t interview people...It’s just Norm.” (68:26)
  • Insights into Norm’s secret battles with cancer, gambling, and his comedic purity: “He was the purist.” (69:22)
  • On Norm’s legacy: “How many comedy-defining moments did Norm have that are world class, memorable, risky too...so many times that he did a shockingly, insanely original take on something.” (57:44)

• On the Importance of Docs:

  • Preserving the legacy: “If you don’t have these docs, I think in the future people won't know what these people were about at all.” (72:46)
  • Mention of Bill Hicks’ “American Scream,” docs on Joan Rivers, Rickles, Carlin, Mel Brooks, and more.

• Riffs on Cancel Culture and Comedians’ Legacies:

  • Jokes about reducing comedians to "one word": “You can't reduce people to one word who have contributed this much to comedy. Come on.” (04:00)
  • Nuances of dark material aging—and what’s now “SVU plot lines” were once comedy bits. (48:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

International Comedy + Road Life

• On why comics bond abroad:

  • “It’s like seeing an ambassador.” – Bill Burr (01:15)

• Dutch Audiences:

  • “They’re not an expressive people.” – Tom Segura (07:17)
  • “You do the show and you’re like, ‘that’s it?’ What the fuck?” – Tom Segura (07:24)
  • “I always say it's like the girl you bang and… she was like, 'that was awesome.' Give me a moan.” – Bill Burr (07:35)

• Travel woes:

  • “No drip coffee. I’m sick of an Americano...give me a drip where you can just pour it out of a pitcher.” – Bill Burr (15:36)
  • “Slow hotel check in—been saying it for years.” – Bill Burr (28:54)
  • “My buddy Chase is trying to meet chicks, the second he says American, they’re like, ugh.” – Tom Segura (17:02)

Industry and Showbiz Wisdom

• Apatow on Larry Sanders:
  • “It’s about people who love each other but show business gets in the way...No one ever tells the truth to each other, and if they ever look someone in the eye and tell the truth, it’s a huge deal.” – Judd Apatow (51:05, 51:21)
• Handling Execs:
  • “If you find people who are really smart, like the people at Universal...They've given me tough notes that've been correct, and so we get each other.” – Judd Apatow (88:13)

On Comedy Legends

• Dangerfield’s meanness:

  • (When asked about what Rodney said of an old friend) “She was what? She was. She was what? She was.” – Rodney Dangerfield via Judd Apatow (37:31)

• Norm Macdonald’s Integrity:

  • “He was a purist. I could come out and say [I have cancer] and would get a bunch of clicks...but I’m just gonna keep being funny.” – Norm, paraphrased by Bill Burr (69:22)

• Comedians’ legacies:

  • “If there’s a Norm Macdonald doc, in 30 years someone might watch, and that's your path into going down the rabbit hole to look at everything.” – Judd Apatow (73:00)

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Timestamps – Quick Reference

• 00:06 – 07:58 — Travel tales: Europe, Paris, Rome, Dublin, Athens, cultural faux pas
• 09:24 — Discussing bar cultures: Milan vs. Dublin/Liverpool
• 11:00 — Segura’s “trafficking” story from Liverpool
• 15:36 — Drip coffee rant
• 17:02 – 20:09 — Americans abroad, Polish comedy, international scene
• 22:50 — “Natural wine gives you hangovers too”
• 28:54 — Slow hotel check-in peeve
• 34:48 — Old photos: “before iPhone, whole eras not captured”
• 37:31 — Rodney Dangerfield’s insult
• 51:05 — What Larry Sanders was about
• 57:44 – 62:04 — Norm Macdonald doc: “so many times he did a shockingly, insanely original take...”
• 68:26 — Norm doc structure: “It's just Norm”
• 79:01 — State of comedy movies, mid-budget genres, AI, and horror competition
• 80:44 — Bringing in Paul Thomas Anderson for Funny People
• 86:10 – 88:55 — Taking network notes; the struggle, failures, resistance, and finding the right partners
• 93:19 — Scorsese doc, legacy, “King of Comedy” as favorite
• 96:53 — Anchorman’s original script with “chimpanzees and Chinese throwing stars”
• 98:21 — On making movies to “just have access” to the process, being on set for Anchorman
• 101:19 – 102:15 — Behind Bridesmaids, Kristen Wiig’s breakout
• 108:43 — Working with Warren Beatty, comedy cameos

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Final Notes

• The episode is a wide-ranging, high-energy hang blending road stories, comedy nostalgia, industry inside-baseball, and honest reflections on art and business—all with classic, sharp wit.
• Apatow’s insight into the persistence needed in showbiz, and the importance of documentation (via books and docs), is especially resonant for aspiring comedians and film lovers.
• Standout segments include stories about Norm Macdonald, stories from the golden age of alt-comedy in LA, the nature of running writers' rooms, and how global comedy (and travel culture) is evolving.
• The episode closes with plugs for everyone’s upcoming gigs and a heartfelt endorsement of Judd's new book, Comedy Nerd, positioning it as essential reading for anyone interested in comedy’s past and present.

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Recommended for:

• Fans of stand-up and comedy history
• Anyone interested in the creative process, movies, and insider showbiz tales
• Stand-up comics (and comedy writers) navigating the modern industry
• Documentary lovers and "comedy nerds" of all stripes

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“If you don’t have these docs, I think in the future people won’t know what these people were about at all.” — Judd Apatow (72:46)

Transcript

[Bill Burr]

What?

[Tom Segura]

It's good to see you.

[Bill Burr]

Hey.

[Tom Segura]

It's been a minute.

[Bill Burr]

Been so long. It's good to be back in America.

[Tom Segura]

I know. We were. We were gone for a while.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yeah. Did you know what did. Oslo, Dublin. Geez. Whereas Finland.

[Tom Segura]

The only place we overlapped was, I think, Dublin.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I missed you by a day.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. How crazy is that? It was like, Jordan, Jensen, me, then you in Dublin.

[Tom Segura]

Crazy. And then you do Paris. Now. Paris was great.

[Bill Burr]

This time I'm saving it.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. Paris is, like, not always my favorite of a comedy, but this time it was great.

[Bill Burr]

All right.

[Tom Segura]

But. Yeah. How is Athens? It looked cool.

[Bill Burr]

Did you go there?

[Tom Segura]

I've been there. I've been. Oh, that was Rome.

[Bill Burr]

Okay. Got it, Got it.

[Tom Segura]

Rome was great. I saw Francesco de Carlo. He took us out to dinner. Did the sneaky. He did the sneak. Credit card pay behind my back. I tried to do it and they were like, he beat you to it. And he's famous over there. Oh, yeah, Francesco. You know, so we're walking around Italy and people are like, mamma mia, Francesco. Like, the way they're so emotional when they see him. And then I got recognized. Some guy's like, dude, just a little different. But no, he was. He took us all around. He's an incredible tour guide.

[Bill Burr]

Isn't it funny when you see another comic overseas? You're like, ah. You glom onto him. It's like. It's like seeing an ambassador.

[Tom Segura]

Well, I saw Seinfeld in Paris.

[Bill Burr]

Wow. Yeah. There you go.

[Tom Segura]

That was incredible.

[Bill Burr]

That's the biggest.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, just like, not who you expect to run into and have a night out with, but.

[Bill Burr]

And he reached out to you.

[Tom Segura]

His wife did. It felt like his wife set us up on a blind date.

[Bill Burr]

Was she on Raya?

[Tom Segura]

She set us up. We're all hanging out and great hang. But then it's like, you know, we all are doing, like, the fun group talk.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

But then it turns into comedy nerd.

[Bill Burr]

Mode, and we're just like, see you, sister. We gotta talk comedy. There it is.

[Judd Apatow]

Wow.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, we had a good time.

[Bill Burr]

Seinfeld Hang in Paris. Sounds like one of these vision board things, you know?

[Tom Segura]

We had a great night. Yeah. Talking comedy for hours. Loved it, man. Just awesome.

[Bill Burr]

Wow, that's great. Look. What is it? Hotel. Is that his place?

[Tom Segura]

No. They picked a cool hotel bar. That. This is such a smooth move on their end. First off, they pay before we could even find the bill.

[Bill Burr]

That's what they get.

[Tom Segura]

The other move, I told her where I was staying and she Picked the place walking distance away. Oh, just a classy move all around.

[Bill Burr]

Pro move, pro move, man. Did you discuss Zoran, the talk of the town?

[Tom Segura]

We had it. We had a great night, man. It was. It was fantastic.

[Bill Burr]

It was incredible.

[Tom Segura]

A lot. A lot of, like, old school comedy talk, like Robert Klein, Carlin, Pryor. Then we did, like, the new age Geraldo. Talking, like, all over the map. Loved it.

[Bill Burr]

Wow. So cool. I'm hanging out with Sean Murphy. Boo. Come on, now. Murphy's great.

[Tom Segura]

Well, we take, you know, and they. I brought my friend Chase with me, and they. They love Chase. You know, Chase is. My mom's a social worker. Seinfeld, Jessica Seinfeld's mom's a social worker they're talking about. So we do all these group pictures after. You know, I take one with Jerry, then all three, then me, Chase, and Jerry. Then at the end, Chase goes, all right, now, moms with social workers got a big laugh out of them. I was like, all right, he's fucking. He's cooking.

[Bill Burr]

Thank God. When you have the side friend who gets a laugh, you're like, all right. He's exhausted, too.

[Tom Segura]

I wouldn't bring him if I didn't believe in him.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, yes. Well, how do you offer the photo? How do you. How does that come up?

[Tom Segura]

Do you go, chase brought it up, which is nice. I don't want to bring up. I don't want to do that.

[Bill Burr]

I had to get a photo with him once. I said, I'm only doing this to help sell the Beacon. He was like, all right. So he got there.

[Tom Segura]

You should have said, because I value you as a friend. That's so much worse to say. I'm using you for tickets.

[Bill Burr]

Well, I guess you're right. Well, we're friends. I wouldn't go, hey, I value. As a friend. Let's get a photo.

[Tom Segura]

You know, you would just say, let's take a photo.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that's true.

[Judd Apatow]

Hey.

[Tom Segura]

Or you could just say, yeah, let's get a photo.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Did you get any blowback? Hey, you hanging out with Zionist here?

[Tom Segura]

I don't fucking know.

[Bill Burr]

Good. Who cares? It's all over Hamas.

[Tom Segura]

You can't reduce people to one word. Who have contributed this much to comedy. Come on.

[Bill Burr]

I've been saying that about Michael Richards.

[Tom Segura]

I know. I've been saying about Cosby.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that was more of an action. Wow. So cool. What lives we have. We're sitting here going, oh, I was in Rome. Oh, sorry. I was in Athens.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, dude, Milan. Crazy.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Well, I got to. Oh, wow. Milan. I want to hear about that.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Burr]

So I get to Riyadh, I do the show. I'm there seven hours, I fly out.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Through the night.

[Tom Segura]

Literally. It's the movie, the town. You just exactly have a mask on. You have a duffel bag.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. I hit one woman. I got a child bride. I got out of there, and then I landed in Athens on no sleep. I'm on, like, an hour's sleep. I get an Uber, and then my wife and baby are at the hotel, and I'm like. Felt like the last. I got out of the last chopper of Vietnam and I made it to the Indiana Jones. Yes. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I really did feel like it was that meme where you're just like. You say the wrong thing, they're all chasing you and you, like, start the plane.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, exactly. Swords.

[Tom Segura]

I had the same thing, but with Barcelona. But, dude, I got so sick in Barcelona. I did the show, but I was sick as a fucking dog and did the show, then had to go to the hospital. Oh, in Barcelona. And it's some shitty hospital. They're, like, not speaking English. I know I should know better Spanish, but I'm like, this is not a good situation to be in.

[Bill Burr]

Damn. What happened?

[Tom Segura]

I was like, I think this is a flu. So let me just get Tamiflu so I can knock it out. So you gotta go to the hospital. Get that.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. And then.

[Tom Segura]

Or urgent care or something. But it was, like, late night. I didn't want to cancel the show. How often am I in Barcelona?

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Tom Segura]

But, yeah, I had to fight through that one. I had to stay an extra day in Barcelona because I was so fucking sick. Just banging out movies in the hotel room.

[Bill Burr]

Did you see the city at all? Because it's a great city. A little bit.

[Tom Segura]

But that was the one I had to kind of sacrifice because I was just so fucking ill. Yeah. And then. And then I'm, like, trying to get better while also binge drinking every night and traveling every couple of days. And it's that thing where I'd be, like, chugging a beer, then I'd be.

[Bill Burr]

In the bathroom, I'd be like.

[Tom Segura]

And I cough out green phlegm into the sink.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, man.

[Tom Segura]

Just. Just a pig.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

But I, you know, start putting a little bodega in the Tamiflu, you know, mix it all up.

[Tom Segura]

I was really not. But it turned out wasn't the flu, but it was just, like a fucking nasty viral thing. And I was like, I was better in a Few days. But it stuck with me for probably like a week.

[Bill Burr]

Damn. Without the booze. We'll keep it on you, the booze, man. But yeah, Athens is incredible. The ruins. The show was insane. All the crowds were great. Sweden was the best crowd.

[Tom Segura]

Stockholm gets it, man.

[Bill Burr]

They get it.

[Tom Segura]

They get it.

[Bill Burr]

Beautiful city. My God, chicks too. Oh, the women are all 6 foot 8 and blonde and oh my God, blue eyed, pure white snow. Unbelievable.

[Tom Segura]

Have to take it there. But yes, they're very attractive women.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I get the IKEA thing.

[Tom Segura]

No, they're very hot and. And the crowds are great. Scandinavian crowds, man. They just get it.

[Bill Burr]

They agree. Well, Finland was a little tough.

[Tom Segura]

I've never done Helsinki.

[Bill Burr]

Helsinki is a cool city. It's very pretty and organized and clean. But the crowds are very, like, efficient. They're like, we like that one.

[Tom Segura]

That's the funny part. It's like Milan. They laugh, but then you do like three Holocaust jokes in a row and they're like, they all applaud as a group. Like, this is such a strange form of comedy. Like, I feel like I'm doing like a TED Talk kind. It's not how, but they were very nice.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, Amsterdam's kind of like that.

[Tom Segura]

Amsterdam's kind of tough. They're kind of tough, you know, Here's a little peeve. Amsterdam.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. What happened?

[Tom Segura]

I got some peeves. They're not an expressive people.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, exactly.

[Tom Segura]

You know, it's like you sell a lot of tickets there, so you're excited, right?

[Judd Apatow]

And then.

[Tom Segura]

Cause they're big comedy fans. But then you do the show and you're like, that's it. What the fuck?

[Bill Burr]

I know. I'm like, that's my best stuff.

[Tom Segura]

And then you get off and they're like, it was amazing. You're like, tell your face. I'm dying up here.

[Bill Burr]

I always say it's like the girl you bang and you're like, oh, I'm kind of not doing well. Then later, she was like, that was awesome. Give me a moan.

[Tom Segura]

Give me something. You gotta give me something. Not to mention these people are on bikes the whole time, right. Don't go to a booty call at 2:00am, like, I'll get on the bike. Everything's on a bike there. And it's. And the roads are literally two feet.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

So you're like, you know, it's like a Mini Cooper whizzing by, then a bike. Then you're like, you're like, I gotta like walk like sideways.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I know. It's a tight town.

[Tom Segura]

And the weather's tough.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, weather can kill it.

[Tom Segura]

They really had legalized weed. And now that other places have it, they've lost a little bit of. It's still a fun city.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, it's pretty.

[Tom Segura]

But the problem is, like, I'm not a planner, and there are two big attractions, the Van Gogh Museum and the Anne Frank House.

[Bill Burr]

Yep.

[Tom Segura]

You gotta plan that one out, like, six weeks.

[Bill Burr]

I did the same thing. I got to Van Gogh. They're like, you crazy? This is two months booked.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I've been there before. It's sick.

[Bill Burr]

It's amazing, really.

[Tom Segura]

But, yeah, I wish I. The National Institute. The National Art Institute in Berlin was insane. They got the Warhol, the Elvis one. They got, like. They got Picassos. They've got, like, Gerard Richter's this huge German artist, and he's like, 94, and he's still going, wow. And his shit's incredible. And then they had. I mean, the Berlin Art Institute, it's legit.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

But they're glossing over some periods of history. They're like, in 1945, 42 to 45, some weird stuff happened. But anyway, in 46, there was a big boom, and you're like, huh?

[Bill Burr]

I know. I went to the History Museum in Berlin, and I got there right at the wire, and they were, like, pushing me out. They're like, hey, get out of here. You gotta go. The train's schedule. And I'm like, you gotta be a real Nazi about this museum here.

[Tom Segura]

You guys have a history of pushing people on trains.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. Loved it. Loved the trip. Now, at what point do you go? Because you're seeing beautiful things, you're flying all over the world, jet setting, art crowds, history. But at what point do you go? I kind of. I'm ready to get back.

[Tom Segura]

I think literally right at the end.

[Bill Burr]

All right, that's good.

[Tom Segura]

I was actually having so much fun, and the bars in every city were so. I mean, it is funny, though, because I'm more of, like a. Like, I'm more of a New Yorker, Dublin, Liverpool type drinker than I am, like, Milan. Like, I like the communal thing of a bar.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Tom Segura]

We're all just hanging at a bar together. You can kind of bullshit with people, you have your friend, but you can kind of have a chat.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Whereas, like, Milan, it's just. You're, like, at a table outside, you're with your own group, and I don't like that. I kind of like the idea that I can meet someone at a bar.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, of course.

[Tom Segura]

So, yeah. Dublin's great. That's always fun. But then Liverpool was like, that was like on another level. That was like the best that I had on the tour. The Hot Water Comedy Club. That's. That was the only club I did. And it was like on fire.

[Bill Burr]

Wow. You don't hear about Liverpool. Ever hear about the Beatles? And that's it.

[Tom Segura]

Dude, the women in Liverpool are gorgeous.

[Bill Burr]

What?

[Tom Segura]

And they, they're like the opposite of London women who, like, they're hotter but they think they're not hot.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that's great.

[Tom Segura]

And it's like, it's insane.

[Bill Burr]

What? So is it like a blue collar?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I think it is.

[Bill Burr]

Okay.

[Tom Segura]

But they, but they have the soccer team and dude, it was like I met this woman there. We had this like amazing night. She was so cool. And it was to the point where we both hammered at like 4am and I was like, you should come to London with me.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

And she was like, all right, I'm coming.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

Okay, wow. All right. So she goes, I'm gonna come with you. And then there was like, it died down for a second. She goes, are you gonna human traffic me? And I'm like, what? I was like, no. And my friend Chase goes, no, he's got like a good career back in America. And I was like, hey, that's not why. We're not trafficking weapons. You can't say it. So I was like, I think I could do a bit about this because what happened?

[Bill Burr]

You trafficked her.

[Tom Segura]

I trafficked her.

[Bill Burr]

All right.

[Tom Segura]

But no, but the next morning, like, she's like, I'm gonna come. And then the next morning, she didn't meet me at the train station. She goes, I'm not coming. And I wrote back, the trafficking. She goes, yeah, I'm just, I'm too scared. And I was like. I said, that's the problem with women in their 20s. They're still scared of getting trafficked. I need a woman my age because they know their trafficking years are long behind. You know, they're like, because if you're trafficking women and you're bringing home like a 40 year old, I think that the head trafficker is like, can I see you in my office for a sec? We're letting you go.

[Bill Burr]

This damage. Good. Yeah. This fruit is old.

[Tom Segura]

But no, yeah, she. But then she's messaging me all week. She's like, my grandma said I should have come. I'm like, she told your grandma what's happening?

[Bill Burr]

Oh, weird.

[Tom Segura]

And then she like went to see a tarot card reader and he was like, yeah, I was like, well, I don't know what's happened, but she was still messaging me the whole trip.

[Bill Burr]

But it was.

[Judd Apatow]

It was.

[Tom Segura]

We had a fun night. It was still fun.

[Bill Burr]

Very romantic. That's fun. We just like. Impulsive like that.

[Tom Segura]

I love to be impulsive.

[Bill Burr]

I do, too.

[Tom Segura]

You're in Europe. What are you going to do? Yeah, the UK is fun. And, you know, London. London. You go to London this time or.

[Bill Burr]

No, I went in like May.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Burr]

And had a blast. I went to Wales, London, all that.

[Tom Segura]

Where else did you hit this time besides Finland?

[Bill Burr]

Finland, Sweden. Oslo.

[Tom Segura]

Oslo's pretty. Anything weird in Oslo?

[Bill Burr]

I had reindeer and I had some. I had. I just ate a ton of fish. Yeah, it was all great.

[Tom Segura]

Any whale sashimi? They do weird shit over there.

[Bill Burr]

I know. They love whale, they love reindeer.

[Tom Segura]

Doesn't taste good though, either.

[Bill Burr]

No. More saunas than cars. Wow. In Scandinavia. Fun fact.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, saunas are great.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I love a song. I love a sauna culture. I know a lot of my hotel. A lot of. A lot of my hotels had saunas. And I was like, man, this is saving me from the hangover.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, totally.

[Tom Segura]

I would just force the gym every day, even if it was like 30 minutes. Because I was like, yeah, I had. I had 12 beers last night. I should probably.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Tom Segura]

Do the rower for 15 minutes. That's like. That's breaking even. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. It's better than nothing.

[Tom Segura]

Something. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

So did you. Did you have a little bit of relief because everybody's all impulsive at the 13th drink and the 4 o' clock in the morning? But if she was like, I'm not coming on the train, I'd be like, that's probably for the best.

[Tom Segura]

I was. I wasn't like, relief. And I was like, it's fine, I don't care. It's like. I mean, it would have been fun, but I was also like, we're going a new adventure. Like you. It's almost like a video game. And it's like, game over. And you're like, all right, we'll start a new life. You just have to keep. You just have to keep the energy up. Because I think, like, you know, I'm traveling with a good friend of mine and it's like, for me, it's like, just keep morale high the whole time. No, no. No sulky, no bad moods. Just keep the energy good. And I. I think it was. It was a good trip and nice trying to think what else was killer.

[Bill Burr]

Any missed flights?

[Tom Segura]

No, but. All right. But we did a canceled train, which was pretty annoying. It was actually the one she bailed on, so I got my money back.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

So that was actually. I was like, hey, maybe this was meant to be. Yeah, the Jew and me is really coming out. I'm like, I could have met the love of my life. I'm like, free train ticket.

[Bill Burr]

All right, let's try to think. What else happened? Yeah. If I had any crazy moments. A lot of crazy flights.

[Tom Segura]

You miss anything?

[Bill Burr]

What?

[Tom Segura]

How long was May and the baby with you?

[Bill Burr]

Just Athens. And then they flew back because. Just popping around six nights.

[Tom Segura]

That hotel's sick.

[Bill Burr]

Great.

[Tom Segura]

The one you see. The Acropolis.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Tom Segura]

From the breakfast.

[Bill Burr]

The roof. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Stay there once. It's insane.

[Bill Burr]

Insane. And that neighborhood's great. We had all the cafe and hit Wolf.

[Tom Segura]

Wolf nights. What's it called? Wolf.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, we did. I took the mother in law there. Wolffish. Wolf face.

[Tom Segura]

Wolf. Something in Wall Street.

[Bill Burr]

I can't remember. Yeah. Sea. Wolf.

[Judd Apatow]

Sea.

[Bill Burr]

Wolf. Sea.

[Tom Segura]

Well, that place is like off the beaten path, but it's incred.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. We walked there, then walked home. That neighborhood was awesome. Yeah, Athens has got some stank on it, too.

[Tom Segura]

I love it. It's kind of dirty. It's fun.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, it's gritty. Yeah, we had a blast. So I went down to the train station to catch the train and not one piece of garbage. No graffiti, not one rat. It's crazy.

[Tom Segura]

You know, it's weird. There's no garbage, but also, I feel like there's no garbage cans in any of these places. Are they just holding their shit?

[Bill Burr]

I looked this up. You actually have less litter with less cans. It's one of these weird human nature psychological things. So I don't know what that's about.

[Tom Segura]

But, yeah, there's no littering.

[Bill Burr]

No littering.

[Tom Segura]

Crazy.

[Bill Burr]

They do have graffiti over there.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, but what about my people? Yeah, but they. Yeah, I'll tell you. You know, I got a pee for the. In Europe, there's a lot of the ATMs, they suck up the card.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that's scary.

[Tom Segura]

I don't like the cards suck because I'm traveling with an atm. I'm like, I need it. I need access to cash.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, you got to have cash.

[Tom Segura]

And I hate the suck up. I'm always like, fuck, are they gonna give it back? It's like the opposite of a blowjob. When they swallow, it's bad.

[Bill Burr]

Right? Right? Yeah. Spit it out.

[Tom Segura]

Spit it out. Because at one time it sucked it up and I was on a tour and I lost My car.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

But it's like, you gotta know I'm booking. I'm booking all this shit here. I should be here. You're looking at my other.

[Bill Burr]

Of course. Of course.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

I gotta pay for you. No drip coffee. I'm sick of an Americano. I'm sick of the flat white. I'm sick of the latte. Give me a drip where you can just pour it out of a pitcher.

[Tom Segura]

The Americano sucks.

[Bill Burr]

It sucks.

[Tom Segura]

It's just lazy.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

At least a cappuccino. There's like. Okay, it's like the milk. I get it. But. But just water and espresso.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

Water.

[Bill Burr]

And then I would ask for milk. They'd be like, oh, milk. Look at this pussy.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

All right. You don't know what you're doing.

[Tom Segura]

Now you get excited, too, because you get to, like, a pretty at a train station. Like, they'll have it. Like, they don't even fudgeing have it. They don't have me a fudgeing drip coffee.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. And then when you're at a restaurant, you want the report. I got a breakfast. But they can't do a report. They got to make a whole new bullshit.

[Tom Segura]

I'm. Dude, I'm with you. This is like. See, they look down upon us, right? Like we're like trash. Because I like a good diner. Like, four refills, but that's what I like. And the coffee's a little weaker, but you're just like. It's the ritual of it.

[Bill Burr]

Exactly, exactly. So I'm making keurigs at hotels.

[Tom Segura]

I can't do that.

[Bill Burr]

I'll take a keurig because at least it's drip.

[Tom Segura]

It's just fucking nasty, though.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Tastes like shit.

[Bill Burr]

Got one right here. Yeah, it's that great.

[Judd Apatow]

But.

[Tom Segura]

But yeah, no, I. It bums me out that the. No, but, you know, they look down upon us in these other countries. Like, some other countries are fine with us. But we were in a bar in Berlin, and my buddy Chase is just going up to chicks, trying to meet them, and the second he says American, they're like, ugh. And it's like, hey, Germany, you've made a few mistakes in your day, too, maybe. I know forgiveness.

[Bill Burr]

And I love when they ask me what's up with the tariffs? I'm like, I didn't do it.

[Tom Segura]

I know.

[Bill Burr]

I didn't vote for the guy. I didn't set the policy. What do you want from me?

[Tom Segura]

No, they. They love to let us have it. And then. But then you have, like, that weird kind of like American pride, you know, you're gone, you're like, no, fuck you. We got a lot of cool shit going on in America too.

[Bill Burr]

It's the big brother syndrome. I can make fun of it, but you can't make fun of it.

[Tom Segura]

Exactly.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. So you want to throw up. What's up with Gerard Jeopardie? That guy sucked, you know, Fuck you, Fritz.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, you guys, that guy looks like shit. Have you seen Gerard Depardieu lately?

[Bill Burr]

No.

[Tom Segura]

He claims he drinks 12 bottles of wine a day.

[Bill Burr]

Wow, 12.

[Tom Segura]

And I'm like, no. And then you see a picture, you're like, oh, he might drink 15. Yeah. This guy looks horrible.

[Judd Apatow]

Look at him.

[Tom Segura]

Look at that nose.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Tom Segura]

That's an alcohol. You ever see an alcoholics nose?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, just talk about reindeer.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Looks like Rudolph. That red fucking nose I hate.

[Bill Burr]

This is their Artie Lang. Holy shit, that guy.

[Tom Segura]

The hair. It's weird to look like shit, but then still have like kind of nice hair.

[Bill Burr]

I know. And it's got a. Like a velvet blazer on. Look at a young departure.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, he was a honk. He was like their De Niro man. Wow. What? What? Where else do you hit?

[Bill Burr]

Let's see. Finland was cool. Oslo was cool. Some of these cities, you. You land and you're like, I need a. I need a minute. So you like sit in the hotel room and jerk off and look at your phone and you kind of missed the whole thing. So Finley, I didn't see too much of, but I had a fish soup there that was unbelievable. I asked the hotel guy, like, what's your thing? And he goes, we got a fish soup. It's great. I go, fish soup.

[Tom Segura]

You're a soup guy though.

[Bill Burr]

Love soup. I went to the first place across the street. I got a fish soup. It was unbelievable. They put a dollop of mustard on top and it's like salmon with a good gooey lemon broth. It's incredible.

[Tom Segura]

I was like that Greek suit with the. The chicken, the lemon and the egg.

[Bill Burr]

Yes. Very similar to that. There it is. Oh my God, it's incredible.

[Tom Segura]

That's so. So because you're such a soup guy, do you have a higher bar for what constitutes a good soup? Or are you kind of just like, no, I'm just happy to have a soup?

[Bill Burr]

No, I think I'm. I got a bar. I got a bar and this was a well made soup and it was like their delicacy. Also, the crowd was a little tough in Finland, I think. I didn't I don't think I bomb, but they just don't give a lot. And a guy yelled out, why don't more comics come here? And I go, you heard the reaction? Why? You guys don't laugh at shit.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I got that. And I think in Amsterdam. And I was like, they're like, you played Riyadh? And I heard. I'm like, they laughed harder than you.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. And I'm not gonna say any names, but last time I did Amsterdam, the booker or the owner of the theater, whatever, was like, gotta tell you, we had three very major prominent comedians here, and they all had a meltdown on some. On the audience.

[Tom Segura]

In which place?

[Bill Burr]

In Amsterdam.

[Tom Segura]

Amsterdam's like, it's fine, but you want. It's funny because, like, my closure was killing everywhere. And it did, like, fine. And it sucks to get off on fine. Yes, they were fine. It wasn't awful. But I got off like. Yeah. I was not. Because it's funny. I was dreading that Paris was going to be that. And Paris turned up being great.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yeah. Paris kicked it up a notch, I think 10 years ago. That was a tough audience.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Now they're cool.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. No, everything else was great, but I'm trying to think where else I hit. Yeah. I mean, Berlin is, like, Williamsburg, basically, but in a good way. Like, they laugh hard.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Met all these cool Polish comedians. Like, so many Polish comedians came out to the show, so, you know, chopping it up with them after the show. They're all really cool. They got a scene in Poland. So I'm going to go to Poland.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, I would love to go Warsaw.

[Tom Segura]

And Krakow, I hear, is amazing.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, easy. That's a lot of history there.

[Tom Segura]

And then I want to go to. I should have hit Munich while I was in Germany.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, Here. That's pretty. We got. Look, we got a whole world ahead of us. We got all these new places to hit.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. I was talking to Louis last night, and he gave me, like, a long list of all these other. He's like, you've never been to, you know, Budapest. You've never been to Sophia. I'm like, I don't even know where Sophia is, but. But they gave me a long list of all these places. Like, he's like, these will be great. And I was like, all right. So.

[Bill Burr]

All right, great.

[Tom Segura]

I took him down.

[Bill Burr]

And we've never done South America.

[Judd Apatow]

I know.

[Bill Burr]

Actually, I did San. What's that place called? What's the big one in Brazil?

[Tom Segura]

Oh, no, not Brazil.

[Bill Burr]

Paulo. No, not Brazil. Car Car. Gosh. It's two words. I don't know why I'm blanking on this.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, Jesus. Sounded like Drew lynch for a second there.

[Bill Burr]

I'm like, Mitch McConnelly here. What the hell is that place called Carlo? Huh? No, is that a place? I'll take it.

[Tom Segura]

You do Argentina? No, I feel like Buenos Aires. We could probably do all right.

[Bill Burr]

That's true. They say it's the New York of South America.

[Tom Segura]

Say everything's in New York. Everything's in New York. If you're just like, this is not.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, San Jose. No, that's in California. Sounds like that, though.

[Tom Segura]

You did rooster tea feathers in South America.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, it was. It was at a bar. My friends set the whole thing up, and we just flew down there and stayed in a house on the water.

[Tom Segura]

Sometimes that's like, you have a better time. Like, that's another thing Louis was saying is, like, I don't want. They offer me these huge venues in, like, Japan. He's like, I just want to have a Good show. Do 800 seasons. Yeah. I kind of get, you know, like, look, money is cool and all, but, like, you want to love the trip, and you want to love the show, and you want. You want to feel good about the.

[Bill Burr]

Show that you people. I completely agree. Like, sometimes they put you in these, like, 1500 seaters, and you're sweating the tickets the whole time. You're like, you're ruining my trip. I know. Just put me in an 800 and we'd sell two. Great.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

It does suck to walk into a huge, cavernous venue that is undersold.

[Bill Burr]

I know, I know. Especially in, like, a random, faraway place because you already feel.

[Tom Segura]

We feel like a failure.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, exactly. And you're like, I flew here for this. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

But I would definitely hit back all these places. I think, for sure.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Comedy's popping, baby. It's all over the world. Thanks. The Internet.

[Tom Segura]

It's fun to just, like, man, I ended up at a bar in Amsterdam that was like, just. It was like, all natural wine. I just got fucking hammered on natural wine. And, you know, the thing is, I've convinced myself you don't get a hangover from natural wine. So I think I have, like, an extra six glasses.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And then I'm like, well, I'm really fucking hungover. Turns out if you drink enough alcohol, you will still have a bad hangover.

[Bill Burr]

Thousand percent. Every. Every elixir pill. Hey, try this when you're done drinking. It'll save you. None of that shit works. And I tried, hey, clear tequila. You're safe. I'm like, no, I get hangover on everything.

[Tom Segura]

Is that what you. That's your go to on when you travel? A lot of beer, too.

[Bill Burr]

A lot of beer. That's. I don't love all the beer. I like beer, but it's like pint after pint after pint. You're like. And I'm like, give me a martini. I had the worst martini I've ever had in Athens, and I just guzzled it down. It tasted like fucking vinegar.

[Tom Segura]

That's like, a great start to a story. The worst martini in my life, dude. I'll tell you, I had, like, so many beers. And I was fighting this cold, too, the whole trip. So, you know, my body's rebelling against me. I woke up two mornings. So you know when you're like, okay, I got five hours of. I can get five hours of sleep. I'm on the flight. I'll be okay. I'm gonna be hungover. But five hours I can do. I wake up an hour before I'm supposed to wake up with the worst fucking cramp right here. I'm like. I'm like, ah. Just screaming. Just like, ah. Alone in my room, screaming. I get out of bed. I finally stop it here. Then it picks up here.

[Bill Burr]

I'm like.

[Tom Segura]

My body, I feel like I'm fucking, like, morphing into something. Just like, gah. Wolfman.

[Bill Burr]

And there's that one guy. Have a banana? Yeah, I got a banana next to the bed. It was in my ass.

[Tom Segura]

And by the way, I did have a banana the next day. And the next night, guess what happened? Same shit. I woke up two straight nights with the worst fucking leg cramps for like, 30 minutes.

[Bill Burr]

Damn, it was hell.

[Tom Segura]

And I was just like, oh, if I just got that extra hour, I would have been okay.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, at least when you have a cramp, it, like, gets you up. Like, you kind of wake up.

[Tom Segura]

I hate it.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that sucks.

[Tom Segura]

I had it once. I had a girl over, and I got one, and it was our first night together after we had talked on the phone a bunch.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, boy.

[Tom Segura]

And she slept over. And it's like that thing was like. She's like, wow, this is, like, a good night. And then 4am I wake up like, ah. And she's like, he's gonna kill me. What the fuck? She was screaming. She's like, ah, no. My fucking leg.

[Bill Burr]

I'm getting trafficked. It's happening.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, man. Oh, dude. I was the wolf man. Fucking brutal.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that Cramp, is it? The only way to get rid of it is walk around.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, dude.

[Bill Burr]

But, hey, it's good to be back, Boy, when you land back on American soil, you're like, whoo, I'm home, baby.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, cuz, you.

[Bill Burr]

You.

[Tom Segura]

You did a lot. I was gone for, like, a month. I left. My routing was brutal. I started in, like, I threw a couple nights in Chicago, and then it was like three nights in Chicago, then Winnipeg, and then it's like, coming back here then, and it's like, fuck. All these connect flights.

[Bill Burr]

You're just like.

[Tom Segura]

By the end, you're just like, no wonder you get sick.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, the connections. Like, I had to connect to go to Riyadh. I had to connect to Istanbul. I was on the wrong side of the airport. I had to run. I'm sweating. I had a jacket on, jeans. I got horrible bo. I take my jacket off, and I was all embarrassed. And then I realized, you're gonna have bo. Middle Eastern flight pretty good. Then I tried to get an Uber when I landed, and they don't have Uber there, which blew my mind. Yeah, every Uber driver here is Middle Eastern, you know, but over there, they don't even have it. I was like, this is your thing. But they sent the guy to pick me up. But, yeah, good times, good times. Glad to be back. But my agent wanted me to do all these European dates for, like, two months. I was like, break it up. I have a child.

[Tom Segura]

Fucking. Yeah, you have a baby, dude. I mean, for me, I'm kind of like, I got nothing at home. I. Part of me is like, I kind of want to go back out. I got. I arrived, like, kind of energized. I was like, I feel fucking, like, good. I don't know.

[Bill Burr]

All right.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, it's weird to drink for 16 nights straight and be like, I feel great.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

But I kind of do.

[Bill Burr]

But then you start wondering, is their food healthier? Maybe? Like, your body was like, this is nice. We're having real bread, real vegetables.

[Tom Segura]

The amount of bread I ate, like, every meal was a fucking sandwich. Like, you get a sandwich on a Parisian train, and it's like, ham and cheese with butter. And you're like, this is better than, like, a gourmet sandwich anyway. Their fucking train station is better. I know you put butter on anything, it's fucking butter. And bread is just like.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. And they do real butter there. You picture that guy in glorious basterds. You know that little dairy he had up there on the mountain? Whoo. The Irish butter is Incredible.

[Tom Segura]

Too good, Butters. Fucking good, man. Why French food is so good? The butter.

[Bill Burr]

It's all butter.

[Tom Segura]

Baby ate a ton of food. Yeah, it was. I mean, it was insane, dude. It was so much. And it's the best when you could just get on a train too.

[Bill Burr]

I know. I love a train.

[Tom Segura]

I had a few trains in a row. Like, this is fucking nice.

[Bill Burr]

It's very nice. You get the view. There's no security. You don't get there an hour early. Trains, the best. Yeah, it's crazy. Like it. If you live in London, you can just train to Paris for a weekend, you know, like crazy. It's crazy.

[Tom Segura]

Or Amsterdam, whatever, wherever.

[Bill Burr]

But also, I don't think London has, like, in America. We can go to Malibu. We can just go to Malibu or Hawaii. We have our cool shit in the country. I think they have to leave to have cool.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, but they're closer.

[Bill Burr]

That's true.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, they're close. You could train versus, you know, taking a train to Malibu from here.

[Bill Burr]

No, that's true.

[Tom Segura]

But I've never even been to Hawaii. I would love to.

[Bill Burr]

What?

[Tom Segura]

I should go, man.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, you turned down a Hawaii.

[Tom Segura]

It was routed with Australia and it was a year. I'd done so many fucking cities. I was like, I don't want to. I was also single. I was like, I don't want to chill in fucking. I don't want to chill in Hawaii for five nights alone.

[Bill Burr]

That's true. There's something sad about that, definitely. And that's a long flight.

[Tom Segura]

You think you have some spiritual awakening on some mountain, but really you're just jerking off in a room and just like, fucking, I'm lonely. I'm going to kill myself.

[Bill Burr]

You still have your brain in Hawaii.

[Tom Segura]

You know, it's still, still you.

[Bill Burr]

It's still your.

[Tom Segura]

I did a sketch like that on snl. Sandler. Do you see that?

[Bill Burr]

No.

[Tom Segura]

He does a travel infomercial and he's like, I just want you to know you're still going to be you over here. That's the whole thing. It's a great sketch.

[Bill Burr]

That's hilarious.

[Tom Segura]

I got some other fucking things I wrote down. What else?

[Bill Burr]

Everybody's quiet everywhere too, if you notice that. You go any city in Europe, it's like everywhere, the restaurants are quiet. Even the bars are kind of quiet.

[Tom Segura]

Germany, they're chatterboxes. I got a lot of people just started chatting me up in bars in a ways where I was like, these people are fucking nuts.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, interesting.

[Tom Segura]

There was one woman just chatting us up and I was like, she is wasted, this chick. My friend was like, you think she's wasted? I'm like, yes.

[Bill Burr]

She's.

[Tom Segura]

She's screaming at us.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

But I'll tell you, here's a P for traveling the slow. Hotel check in.

[Bill Burr]

Been saying it for years.

[Tom Segura]

You know if someone's checking into a hotel, they've been traveling.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Tom Segura]

Why are you torturing us?

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

Would you like us to explain the benefits here? I just want sleep. I want to take my pants off.

[Bill Burr]

Give me the key.

[Tom Segura]

I'm taking my pants off here. If you don't pick it up.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, this shit. Okay. So you're like, why is this ready? Get it going.

[Tom Segura]

Get it going. Just have the key ready.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I would say the same for rental car place. Just. I show up. I already. I made the reservation. Just give me the key.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, you know what I watched on the plane ride back, which was like, God, how about those fucking. The movie selection on the flight to Saudi Arabia. Those were fucking rough. Oh, it's like one anti Semitic documentary. And Mission Impossible 5. I'm like, this is it.

[Bill Burr]

And then.

[Tom Segura]

And then you got flying back, though. Damn. Planes, trains and automobiles, like, so good this time of year. I can't not watch that movie. It's the ultimate Thanksgiving movie.

[Bill Burr]

Incredible movie.

[Tom Segura]

And you tear up.

[Bill Burr]

I just watched the John Candy doc.

[Tom Segura]

I got to watch it.

[Bill Burr]

It's all over the dock. Another thing about the Saudi Arabia flight, they pray. So I'm getting. Look, I'm an American. If you pray on a flight, we're fucked. But they pray. Normally they're like, hello. But I'm like, what the hell's going on? But that's just normal. They have to pray every 10 minutes. So, yeah, that was scary. But yeah, movie. Oh, we might have our guest here. Yeah. Planes train. So good. The doc. The doc game is unbelievable.

[Tom Segura]

It's a great movie.

[Bill Burr]

It's good. It's not great. I'd say it's good. Yeah, but it's like, we got the Scorsese 5 part.

[Tom Segura]

Seen that yet. Is it great?

[Bill Burr]

I already finished it. Incredible. 10 hours.

[Tom Segura]

Damn.

[Bill Burr]

Charlie Sheen doc was fun. The Billy Joel doc was fun.

[Tom Segura]

I gotta peeve. Why hasn't Sheen been on here yet?

[Bill Burr]

I know. He just.

[Tom Segura]

He's been on everything.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

We've been gunning for him since before he did this shit.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

Simon Rex, we know. You listen to the pod. Just fucking text him for us, will you?

[Bill Burr]

Text him. We're fun.

[Tom Segura]

We're fun. He'd like us.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. We'll do crack or whatever he wants. We'll give.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, he's trying not to do crack. Okay, well, drink your non alcoholic beer, Charlie.

[Bill Burr]

Does he have a non alcoholic?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Ooh.

[Tom Segura]

Well, I'll drink it to get him on.

[Bill Burr]

I mean, I'll drink it, but non.

[Tom Segura]

Alcoholic beer is a bummer, though.

[Bill Burr]

That is a big bummer.

[Tom Segura]

It's a bummer.

[Bill Burr]

Especially from the guy who's winning Tiger blood.

[Tom Segura]

I know.

[Judd Apatow]

What a.

[Bill Burr]

What a shift.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. Just. Let's get blown. Is that it? It's like fucking Dan St. Germain, our buddy. We'll be out with him and he'll. He'll order like a Heineken.

[Bill Burr]

Zero.

[Tom Segura]

And I'm like, ugh.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

Just don't drink.

[Bill Burr]

Just don't get a.

[Tom Segura]

Just get a Diet Coke or something, please.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, by the way, I posted my tour dates today. The amount of queefs hitting me up to open. I'll take Buffalo. I'll take this. It's crazy. These guys are like sharks in the water.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. By the way, don't you have people you bring already?

[Bill Burr]

I do, but everybody's like, oh, yeah. You got anybody for Des Moines? Like, all right, you can do Des Moines.

[Judd Apatow]

You can. You can.

[Tom Segura]

By the way, if we end up shooting the movie, you can move these dates, right?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, of course. These are all club dates.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, good. Yeah, I gotta get back in the clubs, too. I wanna. I wanna build up for the. For when I tape. But, yeah, I feel like it's getting there. It's funny. You feel like you. Like after Liverpool, I'm like, I could fucking tape here. And then you have a show in Amsterdam and you're like, I need a few months.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, right, right.

[Tom Segura]

You always judge it by the bad set, not the good. That's how you have to.

[Bill Burr]

That's so true.

[Tom Segura]

It was so bad at the cel. Like, so really, so comically bad.

[Bill Burr]

Interesting.

[Tom Segura]

It's funny. Louie and Judd were actually on the show. And it's funny, getting. Seeing Louis get brought up to. He gets no applause.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

They're so shitty. At one point I was like, man, this crowd fucking sucks. And some late. I just said it. I was like, man, you guys are terrible. And this woman just goes, it's your material.

[Bill Burr]

Oh.

[Tom Segura]

And I was like, wow. All right. And I was. In my head, I was like, these are getting applause breaks in fucking Europe. These are working.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

What a. I mean, yeah. I was just like, whatever.

[Bill Burr]

Damn. You know what's weird? I had a horrible set at New York comedy club on 24th street last night. I'm bombing.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Hey. And then I go, come on in. Whenever you're ready, man. All right. He's got a pee. Oh, the audience is titillating. They're like, who could it be?

[Tom Segura]

Don't know.

[Bill Burr]

Okay.

[Tom Segura]

But that's true.

[Bill Burr]

It's probably on the. The thumbnail. But I had a horrible audience. Five minutes in, six minutes in, I'm like, struggling, and I go, what's going on? Did something happen? You guys suck. You. You're gay, you're fat, you're ugly. And then I'm killing.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Then I. Once I did that. They respected me or something.

[Tom Segura]

I had a couple. I had a couple hit, but I still didn't get what I wanted. And I saw Louis. I saw Louis laughing at me bombing, which it is funny to see a comic you respect just watch you eat it.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Tom Segura]

And I handle it like such a little bitch. And when I got off, he goes. He goes, you couldn't get back after that? I said, I really couldn't. I was too annoyed that she said that.

[Bill Burr]

Right, right.

[Tom Segura]

Of course.

[Bill Burr]

That's mean.

[Judd Apatow]

But they were.

[Tom Segura]

They were bad. I mean, it's funny. Matt Kauf got off stage, and I go, how were they? He goes, awful.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

So in my head, I was like, okay, he's a good writer, Lou. Yeah. Matt's got good stuff. And Louis on stage was like, you know, Sam really hated you.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, he's done that to me before. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

But, yeah, whatever.

[Bill Burr]

I saw Louis. This is years ago. I was like, they're tough. And he goes up. He goes, I heard you guys are a nightmare. And that got a laugh. And then he started killing.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I've done that before. I mean, like, I've heard. I've heard. Not to try. From the other. I'll say something.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Like, I heard you guys aren't worth giving any effort for.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Tom Segura]

Like, you just trash them out of the gate and. Yeah. You like. It's like a hot chick. You just neg them.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Tom Segura]

And they're like. Like, I think you're hot, but.

[Bill Burr]

Right, right.

[Tom Segura]

The other guys were saying you're weird looking. They're like, well, who is this guy?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, Yeah. I think they build some. They build. You build like a. Oh, he doesn't need us to laugh.

[Tom Segura]

Totally.

[Bill Burr]

So now they're laughing.

[Tom Segura]

Totally. Come on in, man.

[Judd Apatow]

Do it.

[Bill Burr]

Let's do it. You under the weather?

[Judd Apatow]

No.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, your flies down.

[Judd Apatow]

Just running and sweating and dripping here for you right now, dude.

[Tom Segura]

The book's awesome.

[Judd Apatow]

Oh, thanks, guys.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. I love the book. The book is great too.

[Judd Apatow]

Right? It's fancy.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. I like. I like the feeling the pages.

[Judd Apatow]

Right. It's got a texture. It's very heavy.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, yes.

[Judd Apatow]

Some thick books are light and other books are so heavy that you don't even know if you want to read them.

[Bill Burr]

And I'm just jealous of anyone who took photos. I have six photos of me as a child.

[Tom Segura]

We were talking about this last night. Like, the amount of photos you have pre iPhone.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

But that's really scraping. Like, when I lived with Sandler, I think there's like, eight photos of that era that exists. So it seems like we covered it, but it's literally like one, like, instant camera, you know, like a throwaway one. And then one comedian took pictures one night at the Improv. So we had that group shot with Spade and Covert and Sandler. That's a great. But no, I mean, in high school, I like, no photos of anything. I have whole eras. I have old girlfriends. There's not a photo of same.

[Bill Burr]

Say nobody believes you. You're like, no, I swear. I have a girlfriend. She lives in Canada. By the way, what'd you hit the Gap? You got a real earthy tone here.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, I went really tan. I went really kind of Banana Republic.

[Bill Burr]

All right.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, I was just doing the Today show, and, you know, you gotta play to the demographic. You gotta play to your audience and know that this feels friendly. It's called marketing, guys.

[Tom Segura]

Dude, you. I love the. Yeah, the parts with Sandler, it's great. And then I have a question, because there's a story of you, Sandler, Tarantino, and all these guys. Seen Dangerfield.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

In Vegas.

[Judd Apatow]

That's right. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And you have one line where you say dangerfield had, like, the darkest insult.

[Judd Apatow]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

What was the line?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, basically, they were doing, you know, they had done Little Nicky.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Dangerfield was in it and Tarantino was in it. And, like, Harvey Keitel. It was a crazy cast. And then one day, Sandler's like, let's go to Vegas and just pay respects to Rodney and go see his act. So it was like a crazy crew of, like, me and Adam and Rob Schneider, Tarantino, Carl Weathers.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

You know, Rob's like, I'll tell you why. Don't get any respect. You're vaccinated. That's why.

[Judd Apatow]

And so we go see the show, and he's kind of great. He's in his 80s, murders someone heckled him, and he kind of went off and it was like, really Fun to see him at full strength. And then we went after to his hotel room to hang out with him, you know, and it's a classic Rodney in the white robe moment. Smoking a lot of weed. Everyone's smoking weed. And you know, I'm trying to talk to him and he's so, he's so odd. He's just like an odd guy. Like we all worshiped him. But he's pitching us movies he wants to make. Yeah, I want to do a movie with I got 11 wives. A Mormon. I got 11 wives. You know, I think he made that movie.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, five Wives. Yeah, they talked about, all right, fine, I'll do five, we can't afford the other six.

[Judd Apatow]

And then I said, you know, my grandmother was best friends with Tony Fields, the comedian. And she was like a Joan Rivers type of self deprecating comedian who was really, really genuinely hilarious. And I said, what did you think of her? And he goes, she was what? She was. And I was like, damn, what does that mean? He goes, she was what? She was.

[Tom Segura]

Oh my God.

[Judd Apatow]

And it was the meanest thing I think I've ever heard anybody say.

[Tom Segura]

I have a question about that story. Cause Adam told me this once when he went to. I'm assuming this was the same trip because he said it was him and Tarantino talking to Dangerfield. And Dangerfield was like, oh, I'm a fucking hack. I'm the worst. You know. And Adam's like, no, you're the best. Yeah, you don't think you're the best? He's like, no, I'm a fucking square. And Adam told Tarantino, he's like, he thinks he's a square. And he said Tarantino was high out of his mind. And he was like, he's like, yeah, you're fucking square. And Rodney's like, what? And he goes, what? And he just went away like pissed. And Adam's like, what the fuck are you doing? He's like, no, he's the best. He's like, he's a squam. Like he didn't realize what he was saying. But it offended Rodney.

[Judd Apatow]

I'm sure. Rodney easily offended. Offended.

[Tom Segura]

He was.

[Judd Apatow]

He always thought he wasn't getting respect and, and maybe the guy who got the most respect of everybody.

[Bill Burr]

I know, right?

[Judd Apatow]

That's the weird thing that, that was.

[Tom Segura]

His hook, remember the documentary and they, and they're doing like, describe Rodney in one word at the end. And Bill Murray goes, respectable. Oh, that's perfect.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean people loved him so much. He was just kind of.

[Bill Burr]

He's the king.

[Judd Apatow]

But I went to see him. I don't. Maybe early 80s, at the height of Caddyshack era, at the Westbury Music Fair.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, I've been there.

[Judd Apatow]

And he murdered as hard as you can murder. Talking so fast.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, I don't know what drugs he was on, you know, like, was he on coke or. But he literally had such a mastery of the one liners. And he was just ripping them. And then he would get a laugh and then you would miss the next two jokes.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

Because he was talking so fast.

[Tom Segura]

That might be why I rewatched Back to School so many times, because there's so many one liners.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

You just go back.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

You know what's cool about Rodney? If you listen to his album, he doesn't say, I don't get no respect till like, 28 minutes in. He saves it. Which you'd think, hey, it's a catchphrase. He uses it every 10 seconds. But he. He saves it and it gets, like a huge applause. Which I think is. That's a pro move. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, before that, you know, he used to talk slower. Like, if you look at. If you've ever heard the earliest Rodney record, it's like.

[Tom Segura]

It's like listening to Simpsons season one.

[Judd Apatow]

Exactly.

[Tom Segura]

What the fuck's up with Homer's voice? It's weird.

[Judd Apatow]

It would talk like this. And, you know, I was. How did my wife. The other day. It was a completely different thing, but kind of hilarious. And also would record comedy albums at his club. And it's amazing because he wouldn't even do great on his comedy album.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

Like, it would feel like a late night set at a club where there's, like, half a house.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And that would be the comedy album. No Sweetening. Just. This is what it's exactly like.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. You can hear the clinking of the glasses and all that stuff. Yeah. I just realized Dave Attell is now our Rodney.

[Tom Segura]

Well, he's like, kind of. He's like, almost like, with hipper references, I feel like. Yeah, sure, he'll, like, know who the kids are talking about.

[Bill Burr]

Right?

[Tom Segura]

But, yeah, he's kind of got a Rodney type thing.

[Bill Burr]

Well, also, just the. You're the best. He's like, I'm a hack. I suck. No, you're great. Everybody loves you. And he's like, I can't stand myself. My act is weak. Whatever.

[Judd Apatow]

But what do you think Dave thinks when his head hits the pillow?

[Bill Burr]

I think he's thinking, what's the new bitcoin Gaza? Whatever.

[Tom Segura]

When his head hits the pillow. He's had like 16 coffees right before, so I don't think he's sleeping that much.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. And it's like 8am Probably.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I remember leaving diners with a towel at like 4am and he'd order a large iced coffee to go. And I what are you doing?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. He's like, I got a new porn store to check out.

[Tom Segura]

Dude. When I open your book, one of the coolest pages is like. And this is like, maybe just cause you're a nice guy. I forget how much shit you've done because you're not talking about it, but like, it's like Larry Sanders on one page and the other page is the Critic.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

So these are your two. The two sides of your comedy.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. Well, I worked there both at the same time.

[Tom Segura]

That's two days and two days.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. So the Ben Story show got canceled, and I had tried to get a job on the Simpsons after the first season. I wrote a spec. I had no career whatsoever and I didn't get hired, but they liked it. And so then when the show got canceled, two the people you know, Al Jean and Mike Reese, were starting a new show called the Critic. And they asked me to write for it a couple of days a week. And then Gary knew I was unemployed and he's like, come work for me. He's like, you'll learn a lot.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Judd Apatow]

And he didn't say, like, you'll be helpful to me.

[Bill Burr]

Right? Right.

[Judd Apatow]

He said, you'll learn a lot. And I would go in there two days a week and just pitch joke and then go to the critic and pitch jokes. But I was the only non Ivy League person in the critic room. And they were all like the legendary writers of the time and the Harvard guys. And I would make some dumb dirty joke and they would just look at me and go, oh, Judd, you've outwitted us again.

[Bill Burr]

Elitist gun.

[Judd Apatow]

And they would be like trying to figure out like Fermat's theorem in between jokes. Like, they were all like math geniuses and like to talk about math.

[Tom Segura]

Well, dude, you. It's like the two most different shows tonally. I love both of the shows. If you. And I'm sure a lot of people listening haven't seen the Critic. I think they're all on YouTube. Yeah, you should watch it.

[Bill Burr]

It's. It's incredible.

[Tom Segura]

Like, I feel like it's almost like the predecessor to Family Guy. It's like a lot of funny flashback. It's so funny.

[Bill Burr]

It's A little dated because it's so many movie references and a lot of fashion, all that. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

The 90s was, like, all fat jokes.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

It was just a guy with, like. Like stand on a. On a trampoline. It would break and be like. I guess that's the joke.

[Judd Apatow]

It was. It was open season at that time. Oh, yeah, I was. Remember there was, like, a parody of some sort of movie where Arnold Schwarzenegger is an actor rabbi, and he, like, breaks into the Supreme Court. He's like, tonight, we're going to make some laws.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. I love that show as a kid.

[Tom Segura]

Critic pilot is one of the best pilots ever. Yeah, it's perfect. I love that show.

[Bill Burr]

The mom was amazing. The Easter island kid. Everything was great. The drunk, drunk dad.

[Judd Apatow]

The funny thing that happened is. So I wrote this spec. Like, you know, because that's what you used to do. You would write an episode of a show to prove to another show that you were a good writer. You would never get a job with the show. Like, if you wrote, like, a Murphy Brown or something, you would never get hired by Murphy Brown. But maybe someone at Seinfeld would like it.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

And so they didn't make my Simpsons episode. And then literally, 22 years later, I'm doing a Q and A somewhere, and I go, you know, all my stuff, it's all about, like, people who don't want to grow up. And, you know, in fact, the first thing I ever wrote was a Simpsons episode where Homer takes his family to see some sort of hypnotist. He makes him think he's 10. And then the hypnotist has a heart attack. And Now Homer is 10, and he becomes best friends with Bart, and he doesn't want to be brought back to 40.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Tom Segura]

And they.

[Judd Apatow]

And they run away so that he won't be brought back to his real age. And. And there was an article about it, and they printed the Q and A. And then the guys at the Simpsons who ran the critic and had been there since day one, called me and said, oh, we'll make it now.

[Bill Burr]

Oh.

[Judd Apatow]

And then, you know, they rewrote basically every word of it.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

And made it, like, the dream of what it. You know, what I always would have hoped it could be. And they made this hilarious episode. They let me go to the table read and the records. So I got to sit in the room while, like, Dan Castellaneta was doing Homer, which was like watching Jackie Gleason do you know, Ralph Cranberry? I really thought, like, oh, this is one of the greatest things that's ever happened in comedy.

[Bill Burr]

Could they throw you a bone and let you do a voice like, let you be Judd?

[Judd Apatow]

I was in another episode.

[Bill Burr]

Okay, there we go.

[Judd Apatow]

There was an episode about a DVD piracy that I had a line or.

[Bill Burr]

Two in that's pretty legendary.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Your kids like, hey, look, here's me on the Simpsons. I'm yellow.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. That's a big one, dude.

[Tom Segura]

In the book, you talk about Cable guy, which I feel like. So you didn't get credit writing for that, right?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, I did. But you wrote it a big. Well, there was a script, and we wrote a lot of it. Enough that I thought I would get credit of some sort. But the guy who wrote it was a lawyer. And you have to write, literally, a legal paper to try to explain why you think you deserve credit. And I was just so young and dumb that my letter was bad. So I wound up getting zero credit. And then the movie didn't do well in the box office, and I was so upset and complaining publicly, and people are like, I can't believe he's trying to get his name on the cable guy. But. So that hurt. But I produced it as well, and it was really.

[Tom Segura]

But then great. But then you had lunch with Warren Beatty.

[Judd Apatow]

I did. So, like, it bombs. So, yeah, it bombed. Here's the funny thing. It made a hundred million dollars, but they expected it to just make whatever.

[Tom Segura]

Was it rated R?

[Judd Apatow]

It was rated R. That'll do. I mean, it ends with Jim committing suicide. You know, it was a little darker than people expected.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And so I was really bummed. And Shandling's like, you should talk to Warren about it.

[Bill Burr]

Warren.

[Judd Apatow]

Warren Beatty. Because they were friends at the time. And I said, okay. So he set up for me to go out to lunch with him, and he said, you know, you never know if something is good for, like, 10 years. He's like, movies, you know, sometimes they open, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get good reviews, sometimes they don't. But in, like, 10 years, you know, if anyone cares if it survived in the culture.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And that really has turned out to be true because we've had tons of movies that were below expectations in reception. And then you go, oh, 15, 17 years later, people are still talking about Walk Hard.

[Bill Burr]

Right. Or Idiocracy.

[Judd Apatow]

Idiocracy is a perfect example.

[Tom Segura]

I saw Walk Hard with. It's the only time I saw a movie with my biological father, who I was not close with. And he was like. He's, like, trying to have a relation with me. He's like, we should see a movie. And I'm like. Like, we're. What's something I can see that will have no weird parental theme in it? I was like, walk hard. Then it's like the whole thing about.

[Judd Apatow]

Him and his dad.

[Tom Segura]

I'm like, what the fuck? And it's literally the whole thing. He's like, you never played Cash with me. I'm like, what the fuck am I watching next to him? Like, this is the most uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Then it brought you back together.

[Tom Segura]

No, I don't think we talked after that. I think it was like, let's not deal with any of this.

[Bill Burr]

I saw 12 Years of Slave with my black friend. Same feeling?

[Judd Apatow]

Similar.

[Bill Burr]

Damn, that's. That sucks.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. It was like when I saw National Lampoons. Animal House with my mom.

[Bill Burr]

Oh.

[Judd Apatow]

And I'm like, 10 years old, and there's, like, hand jobs in it.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

It was uncomfortable with Tammy that day.

[Bill Burr]

You mind if we dance with the old dates? Yeah, that movie's got some. Where you're like, whoa.

[Judd Apatow]

Oh, yeah. I, I, you know, I'm putting together a comedy exhibit for the Motion Picture Academy Museum, and it's. It'll be in, like, two years, so they're letting me, like, pick all the objects, like, to put. But in the museum, and I was looking through things to consider, and I. I was shown the script of Animal House, and. And there I. You open the page, and it says, do you mind if we dance with your dates? And then there was the notes from John Landis, the director of, like, what music and how he wanted it to shoot it.

[Bill Burr]

What are you studying? Primitive species. Wild joke. But, yeah, great movie, though.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Great time they got together. I was obsessed with Animal House as a kid, and they got together and just traded frat stories and just wrote them all down.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

So they got that movie.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. Some of those movies, it is funny. Like, I loved Revenge of the Nerds growing up. A few of these are definitely rape scenes. It's kind of. Oh, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

I think that was a thing. Right? Like in Animal House, like, the girl is passed out, and then the joke is deciding whether or not to attack her.

[Tom Segura]

And I literally, an SVU plot line now, like, oh, that was. That was funny back then, though.

[Judd Apatow]

I know you wondered just, like, what was happening, like, in the culture that, like, I mean, you know, hundreds of people approve that. Oh, it's like one entire studios and marketing departments and, you know, but that's how you watch.

[Tom Segura]

You watch it through a time capture. You're like, oh, this is like kind of. It's interesting, you know, it's not like good or bad. It just is, you know, it just was.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. I mean, it's like honeymooners to the moon. The whole joke. I'm hit. My wife goes to the moon.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, but you'd have to be hit hard.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, exactly.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

And we knocked out of the moon by then.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

That was pre moon landing, right? Damn.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, that probably. That was pretty moon.

[Bill Burr]

Like a whole.

[Judd Apatow]

So it might have inspired.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Russia heard it. They're like, we got to get there first.

[Bill Burr]

We got to hit our wives harder. Now I gotta ask. So when you're in the thick of it, I'm talking Ben Stiller show, then the Critic, then Larry Sanders, which is such an iconic comedy.

[Tom Segura]

So iconic.

[Bill Burr]

Did you know, like, I'm a little. I'm a young kid from Long island who's now in LA. I'm riding on 17 shows. I'm in the throws. Did you go, I'm doing it, or was it a constant fight for survival?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, both. I mean, I was lucky because Larry Sanders. My job was just to pitch jokes. I didn't have to approve the jokes. And really, the more stressful job is which joke to put in the script. It's fun to just sit there eating a sandwich, just babbling all day. What about this? What about that?

[Tom Segura]

We turned it into a career.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, exactly. And that's all it really was, was just trying to get a joke in. You'd get maybe one script a year to write. Then slowly I rose up. Where? The very last season, I co ran the show with Adam Resnick. And that's stressful because now you could let Gary down.

[Tom Segura]

How did he pitch that to you that he wanted you to run the show?

[Judd Apatow]

There's just a moment where he was unhappy with how it was set up. And then he just said, will you please come in and help me? And I had seen him go through a lot of writers and some of the best writers in the world that he just didn't connect with.

[Bill Burr]

Scary.

[Judd Apatow]

And I had seen that go dark a bunch of times.

[Tom Segura]

Well, the last season's dark. I mean, the last season is like, it's beautiful. It's kind of sad. The idea that you don't realize how much they love each other till the last season. The characters, when Hank is such a weasel the whole show. But the last season, he's kind of like, no, fuck Jon Stewart taking over. Like, I got you back. That was kind of where you're like, oh, whoa, this show kind of like It's Got Heart, you know?

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, it was real.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, that's what he wanted to be about was like, he would always say it's about people who love each other, but show business gets in the way.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

And so, like, your ego gets in the way. He also said that no one ever tells the truth to each other, and if they ever look someone in the eye and tell the truth, it's a huge deal.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

And, you know, so that was the conversation in the office. Like, people just have a mask, and they're. They want to be seen a certain way. And that was what the whole metaphor of the show was like, being behind the curtain and how we all have our own, you know, private world in our head. And this way, we want people to see us. Like, Hank Kingsley wants you to think he's, like, the shit.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

But to everyone, he's like, he's so clearly not the shit.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, yes.

[Judd Apatow]

And also, he wants to know if Larry loves you.

[Tom Segura]

Him.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

There's one episode where it's all about him just wanting a raise and saying, I'm gonna quit if I don't get a raise. But he just kind of wants to see if Larry would back him.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, so that's the thing that Gary was. Was most.

[Tom Segura]

It's all relationships.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. It's all about, you know, how people connect and, you know, and if you think about any job you've ever had, like, it's all the same. The same stuff for any office. I mean, that's why I think it's an inspirational show to a lot of other shows. Shows, because it is. It just went very deep into those relationships. But so when Gary asked me to run it, I was so nervous, so I just said to him, I go, I know what usually happens to the person in this job.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And I go, I really don't want.

[Tom Segura]

To lose, like, working for Trump. It is.

[Judd Apatow]

It is. It's like, yeah, like, you're scaramouchti or something, you know, And. And so I said, how can we do this? Where at the end of this, you don't hate me?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And we talked about it, and I don't think anyone had ever done that with him, you know, to just really sit him down and go, you know, what is the process that makes this easier for you? And I think the reason why it worked was I think he just liked writing with me. Not that I was doing anything so great, but I think he felt comfortable being funny with me.

[Bill Burr]

That's huge.

[Judd Apatow]

And so he would loosen up, and I could kind of get him going and take notes and, you know, manipulate him into figuring out all the problems where other people would try to fix everything for him, which you do have to do. But I was like, how do I get Gary to tell us? Because it's all in his head.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

And if I can make that fun, maybe he'll give us more of the show and it won't land on us as much.

[Bill Burr]

Sure. Wow. There he is.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, there he is.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always think that show is, like, the opposite of Seinfeld. They were on at the same time, but Seinfeld was like, no relationships, selfish show about nothing. And that show was, like, just emotion, love, fighting, jealousy, and all showbiz, where Seinfeld had very little showbiz, very different show.

[Tom Segura]

There's also, like, some of the callbacks in that. I mean, one of my favorite episodes is Hank's Night in the sun where he takes Larry's sick and Hank takes over. And the first night he takes over the show, he kills. Cause he's, like, charming. And then it all goes to his head and he becomes a piece of shit. It's just a great episode. I mean, it's a great episode if you, like.

[Judd Apatow]

Like.

[Tom Segura]

Like, oh, do. Am I gonna like this show? You just watch that one. Then you're like, all right, watch that then. Start from the beginning.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. Peter Tolan wrote that episode.

[Tom Segura]

It's a great one.

[Judd Apatow]

He wrote a lot of the. The best ones, but it is the one we all point to. There's also a funny one with Colin Quinn as Rip Torn son Dude. Pretty great.

[Tom Segura]

Apparently, that was what made Mike Myers want Colin Quinn to be Scott Evil.

[Judd Apatow]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

He wanted. He saw that because Colin is like, his spoiled son, and he's like, this will be great. And Colin turned down Austin Powers.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. What an idiot.

[Judd Apatow]

He didn't see it. I have a. You know, Jake hasn't had a funny story where he was up to direct American Pie. And he read the script and he went in for the meeting and he said, you know, I think it's, like, really good, but, like, I don't think you should have this kid fuck a pie. That he did not get that job.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Tom Segura]

He also. He read Star Wars. He's like Darth Vader.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. Sometimes you're just proven completely wrong. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, that's the scene, man. I mean, I feel like you see Jason Biggs now. That's the first thing you think.

[Bill Burr]

Of course. Of course I saw that. I always say, I Saw that movie in a black neighborhood. And the, you know, black commentary is always hilarious. And right when they showed the pie mangled, some guy goes, he tore that up. Popcorn in the air. So I gotta ask you, we got you here.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

So the DOC world is, is exploding right now. I feel like. Yeah, I got John Candy, Ben Stiller just put one out. You got Charlie Sheen, you got Billy Joel. They're doing one on. Is it Downey, the writer?

[Tom Segura]

Jim Downey.

[Bill Burr]

Jim Downey.

[Judd Apatow]

That was a good one. That's on Peacock. That's a.

[Bill Burr]

Is that out?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

That's really good.

[Judd Apatow]

Because it talks about how he writes and he was the best writer. He was the best on the show. And. And when you see what he wrote or what he was part of writing, it's insane.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

It's every, every sketcher that you remember.

[Bill Burr]

But I, you, I think are doing a Norm doc. Is that out there? Is that public?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, that's public. That's going to be the next year. Enough to just watch everything. Yeah, I'm directing.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that's exciting.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. I mean, you did. So you did the Shanling one, you did the Carlin one. They're both. I love them both.

[Bill Burr]

Great.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. Well, people love Norm, so it's, you know, I think people are gonna really enjoy it because also it's fun to dig up the stuff that, you know is hard to find or just things that he's talking about that unless you were like the most hardcore fan, you would never find this conversation and his opinions about these things. Because, you know, I used to write with Norm for Roseanne. Like we were hired to write her act. Like her stand up act. And we would go to her. Better than writing her tweets on the weekends. We would go to her house on the weekends and write jokes with her. She'd bring out like a big stack of legal pads and then she would tell us thoughts she had. And, you know, he quickly left because he got hired on the TV show. Like, she was so impressed with him. She's like, you're gonna write on my TV show. And then I had to work for another year writing this HBO special with her that she did like she would have. There was one funny one where she said, I want to do a joke about how it's better to suck dick than kiss ass. Because when you suck dick, it's like an agreement. I'll suck your dick and then you'll give me this. But when you kiss ass, it's just for the hope that you might do it.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, that's good.

[Tom Segura]

Like Dirty Seinfeld.

[Bill Burr]

What's the deal with Suck a Dick? It's a blow job, but you don't get paid. Okay. But yeah. Wow. So Norm was. He's my guy. He's my number one. And there's so much content. Like that's the. I feel like I've seen all of it because I'm a psycho. But there's so much he was, he gave so much for a guy who died young.

[Tom Segura]

Young.

[Bill Burr]

Like the Conan's and the podcast and the TV show on Netflix, the YouTube show and all the stand up. It's like never ending. And snl.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. It's what, that's what I thought was most impressive about it. Because when you really look at it like how many comedy defining moments did Norm have that are like, you know, world class, memorable, Risky too. You know, him doing the ESPY monologue or him doing the Bob Saget roast where he said all nice things from a joke book.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And you started listening it and there's so many times that he did a shockingly, insanely original take on something.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And I think that's fun to just see how his mind works.

[Bill Burr]

The Conan Carrot Top moment where Conan falls out of his chair. And there's so many iconic.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, and when he brings Conan the gift bag for getting the Tonight Show. I mean, and then he's just leaving like that next week. I mean, it was just, just. He always had a. Yeah. On panel. It was like it was always gold, man.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, the heartbreaking part is you can't show all of it, you know, because you have limited time. There's one that I couldn't get in that maybe, you know, maybe you could tell, which is the Bill Cosby story about his dad.

[Bill Burr]

Yes. By calling him. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And he forgot his dad was dead.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, exactly. But he didn't want to say that to Bill Cosby. He's like, we called you dad. He didn't answer the phone. He's like, ah, I don't know what to tell you. Whatever. And the firing, him getting fired, then him going on Letterman to talk about getting fired. I mean, that was amazing TV for that time.

[Tom Segura]

They had a special thing. Letterman really got Norm. I don't know. I mean, so did Conan for sure. But he's a guy that, like, if you don't have the right interviewer, it's not going to be as good.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

The Letterman interviews, when you re watch them carefully. Because I think for a lot of years when you would watch Letterman, you wondered how much he liked people. Like, that was part of the fun of the show is, like, is he enjoying talking to people? And when he talks to Norm, he literally looks like he's in heaven.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

Like, he's so excited to see what he's gonna do. And Norm would push it and be edgier or grosser than most people because people were always, like, warned off. Like, Letterman doesn't like when you get kind of weird in that way. And Letterman was just tickled. And I think what came out is that Norm was really influenced by him.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

Because I think on one of his last appearances, he did one of Letterman's bits.

[Bill Burr]

Totally.

[Tom Segura]

And when he did one of his simple pleasures.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, right. And you go, oh, that was the beginning of him figuring out his style.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And then he did. I mean, what was that the last routine he did? World War II.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. The identification joke. And then he. It was rare to see him get emotional. And you could see Dave fighting off getting emotional, because that's not his thing. And he could be like. Like, you could tell it was hard for both of them. I was like, wow, this was like. That was a heavy TV moment.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. And a big deal, because Norm was going through something that people didn't know about. And he wanted to take the opportunity to tell Letterman that, you know, he loved him and how important he was to him, and Letterman didn't see that coming. That someone would be so vulnerable and caring at that time.

[Bill Burr]

And I love a comic who. He's clearly such a smart guy. He's like, well read on Dostoevsky and all this shit. And he's like, brilliant dude. You know, he had his problems, but his jokes were so silly. Like, he had a great joke where he would do on his TV show where he'd read the cue cards or the blue cards. He was like, yeah, Donnie Wahlberg and Jenny McCarthy are. Are getting married. They're doing it on Retard Island. You know, like, that joke kills me, but that's the dumbest joke on the planet.

[Tom Segura]

It's funny because you know how good he is.

[Bill Burr]

Exactly.

[Tom Segura]

And you don't see that bad a joke coming from him. And that's funny.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, on the talk show, he definitely liked doing really bad jokes that threw you. Like, wait, is that even a joke? Or it would be, like, edgy in a way, like, you didn't see coming. Yeah, I mean, he really has some jokes. Like, when you watch all of them, like, from that ear or update, where you're like, wow, that joke would really get you in trouble.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, he's walking a tightrope. There was like this. This was an air of discomfort where you're just like, what's gonna happen? Like one misstep, you're like, this could go really fucking south in a bad comedian's hands. But he was just so good.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I have this prized possession I have. I have like 150 old film noirs that Adam Egot gave me. And he's like, this was meant for Norm. Cause he's the only guy I know who loves noir as much as you. So he gave me this hard drive. I have like 150 old movies.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Tom Segura]

He's like, oh, Norm. Like this. I was like, fuck. Norm loved noir. I didn't even know that.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

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[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

No, it's. I mean, and that's what I like about documentaries is, you know, that we love Norm so much, but I'm just so fascinated by like, like, who, who was Norm? I know. And how we did this was like a, it's like a found footage documentary. So we didn't interview people.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

We didn't like get people like dissecting them. It's just Norm.

[Bill Burr]

Great, great.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, and, and because, like, you know, when Norm passed and I went down the rabbit hole, there were incredible interviews like, you know, morning radio in Hawaii. And he doesn't like two hours and, and he's so funny, but they can't tell when he means it, when he doesn't mean it, you know, and, and that stuff is pretty priceless.

[Bill Burr]

Some of his, I'm a nerd, but some of his best stuff, he did Chris Hardwick's pod a couple times and those are incredible, like, treasures because he opens up and he stops being, trying to be funny and he's just on and going, and he goes, you know what I hate is all these comics now doing one man shows. About having cancer. Like, everybody gets cancer. Shut up. You're not special. Getting cancer is not an accomplishment. Not knowing the whole time he had cancer and he was like, on them. Like, I could come out and say, and I would get a bunch of clicks and, you know, victim points, but I'm just gonna keep being funny.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

He was the purist.

[Judd Apatow]

And also, you know, he had cancer when he was really young, 20s, and he got over it and then he got it again later in life. So, you know, when you think about his personality and just that, like, I don't give a shit. Energy.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, it is like through the prism of someone who's seeing life in a. In a much deeper way.

[Tom Segura]

Well, you wrote about this in your book about funny people. And was it your mom? Someone got really sick.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And then. And she was like, she had like, no worries when she was really sick and then she got better and.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And it's. It like came back. It's like you did that with the character and funny people.

[Judd Apatow]

Right. Because. Yeah. Every time she thought she would survive, all of her neuroses and crazy would come back. And every time she thought she had no chance, the medicine's not working. She would get really, like, serene and mellow and pleasant and. Well, I'd seen that with other people too, where, like, you get sick and you suddenly, like, you could just see everything clearly and what's important and how you should treat people. But when you get better, it is like a weird thing. You're. It's hard to hold on to that feeling. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

And I wonder if that's why he could gamble away 400 grand and just be like, what are you gonna do? Because he's like, I'm still alive. You know, I have cancer.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. But that's a bad. That's. I think he was a. Must have been a gambling.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, he had a problem.

[Tom Segura]

And that's like. That's insane to do that.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

That's insane to piss away that kind of money on chance.

[Judd Apatow]

But also, we don't even know if that's true because, like, I've talked to people on the like. Like he's exaggerating the losses or like it's very Bob Dylan esque in the sense that he's not a reliable narrator.

[Tom Segura]

And we're talking about it and it makes him. It adds a mystique, I guess.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. We just don't really know. I mean, he clearly was gambling.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

And had some problems with that. But like, the stories. I mean, that he lost everything Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm sure he took some hits and maybe he did lose everything, but I don't think he lost that much in one day. Like, but. But who knows? It's like I'm doing a documentary about Mel Brooks.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, nice.

[Judd Apatow]

And I said to him, mel, are any of these stories true that you tell all these funny stories? And he's like, no, I make them up.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Judd Apatow]

They're all apocryphal. He's like, I change him. I punch him.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

So that's also part of. Everyone's a storyteller, so you have to work to try to figure out, okay, where is the truth? Truth in this? It doesn't matter where the truth is.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

Do we care if the stories are.

[Tom Segura]

Well, I remember there was like a movement of, like, honesty, like one man show type comedy where, like, that was valued over funny. But to me, like, who gives a fuck if you're laughing, you're laughing, right? As long as the joke isn't. Isn't the truth.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, I assume in everything, nothing is completely accurate, even in documentaries. I mean, it's only my point of view. And so I can, you know, have a different point of view from someone else who was there. It's like the vibe I put into it, you know?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Like, some people might go, oh, I think that person was happier than that. And you kind of made him seem sad or.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

Or you made him seem, you know, just like a different vibe than he was based on what you choose to put in it.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And so that's the interesting part about it.

[Bill Burr]

Well, I'm just glad you're documenting all this stuff because, like, sometimes I'll just watch Comedians and Cars and you're like, oh, man, we have Brooks and Carl Reiner having soup together. We have Jerry Lewis. We have an hour with Jerry Lew, an hour with Don Rickles. And they're all gone now.

[Judd Apatow]

Exactly.

[Bill Burr]

And you're like, we got this now, thank God.

[Tom Segura]

And the Rickles is good. I mean, it's cool. You know, Joan had that cool doc. Oh, yeah. It's. It's nice to, you know, to see these people's lives. They were groundbreaking, like Rickles was. It's insane.

[Bill Burr]

I know. Crazy.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, if you don't have these docs, I think in the future people won't know what these people were about at all. Right.

[Bill Burr]

So, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

So if there's a Norm MacDonald doc, you know, in 30 years, someone might watch the documentary, and that's your path into going down the rabbit Hole to look at everything.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Like with George Carlin, you know, people didn't really know much about his journey and his life, but they probably will start with an interesting doc first. But. And some people don't have them, and you go, oh, did we never really, you know, learn about them in the way. You should?

[Bill Burr]

Totally. I mean, we had so little. I mean, you're. You're older than us, so. But when I started, there was. On comedy. Remember that CD or whatever it was? That was it.

[Judd Apatow]

It was like the Carson interview.

[Bill Burr]

Yes. Yeah. Carson. They had Seinfeld one.

[Tom Segura]

Terry Gross ones. Yeah, like Terry Gross and like, Jackie Mason, Henny Youngman. They're good interviews. They're cool.

[Bill Burr]

Sure. But then you had a special and then like, five minutes on Carson or Letterman or whatever, and that's all you had of standup. It was like this weird, elusive thing. And now this podcasts and documentaries and stuff.

[Tom Segura]

Now there's, like, too much.

[Bill Burr]

It's crazy.

[Judd Apatow]

I know.

[Bill Burr]

That was a lot.

[Judd Apatow]

But, like, I love the Bill Hicks documentary.

[Bill Burr]

That was fun.

[Judd Apatow]

Is a really good one.

[Bill Burr]

American Scream. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. That was great. When he said, I showed up to the improv, and I couldn't believe there was a building built for this thing. I love. I think about that all the time.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

You show up at, like, Comedy Works in Denver. You're like, wow, this is a cool room. I get to.

[Tom Segura]

This is for me, Bill Hicks doing, like, like, the weirdest, most random cities. That Flying Saucer tour.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Where he's bombing with these brilliant jokes. I know, it's incredible. It's actually like listening to those. You're like, holy shit. And he's such a dick to the crowd. It's so funny when he says stuff like, don't worry, guys, there's a purple veiny dick joke around the corner. I'm like, oh, my. He's so condescending to these people. It's so funny, though.

[Judd Apatow]

But, you know, it was such a different time than, like, late 80s standup, because a guy like Bill Hicks, he wasn't that famous. And so we look at him as legend.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

But at the time, he is a road dog.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And he's running around and he's playing these, like, funny bones and small cities and, you know, crowds are coming, but not to see him, probably a fair amount of the time. And so he is at war with the crowd.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And if they're not smart and they're not good, like, it becomes a different dynamic and something explosive happens in the room as he's, like, battling to teach them something or yell at them for not getting it. Because he's also doing a lot of things. Stuff, you know, deep in the South.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And he.

[Tom Segura]

He actually went to these places, all these kind of like, you know, political comics now who only played a people of their own ideology, whereas Bill was actually in the sticks telling them shit they didn't hear. And that's the difference with Bill and a lot of these comics now who are like political comics, but which is. Which is brave, I think. But then also Bill dying at, what, 32 or 33, whenever he died, and not being known and then being known after death is almost like an artist. You're at like a, you know, the Met or something, and you're like. Like, this guy died in poverty at 28 and now he's huge.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. I mean, it was a big deal to be the guy out there saying, like, the war in Iraq is wrong.

[Bill Burr]

Right, right.

[Judd Apatow]

In the 80s, it was early 90s, it was more shocking for him to go on stage and talk about why drugs are good.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

So many of those ideas had never been covered in that.

[Bill Burr]

Totally. Totally before. And didn't he get. He got kicked off Letterman?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, the last time he did Letterman, he did a really edgy set. And I guess there was some abortion material in it and they didn't air it. And then, like, after he died, like, you know, not soon, like years later, Letterman had his mom on.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And he played the. And it was. It was kind of an amazing moment.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Yeah. Damn.

[Judd Apatow]

And then you see the set and you're like, it doesn't seem. I know that level. Edgy.

[Tom Segura]

How do you feel now? Like, you try to. I mean, late night's obviously dead in terms. Especially with stand up now. It's like you put together a set, it's not really worth the work for anyone now, which is a shame, because I think there's something cool about the rush of doing a set, even if it's a horrible. It's not ideal at all. You're 5pm in Burbank. Whatever you're doing, you know, it's a nightmare. But there is something cool about it still. Like throwing a suit on. You're like, oh, this isn't normal. This is.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, it's a sprint. Right. Like, everyone is so used to the long strats. And back then you were designing everything in your act for the six Minute hunks.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And you had to get the crowd to figure out who you are in, like a Minute and then try to get some kind of momentum and really strong and have a bunch of them ready to go. It was a different kind of terror.

[Tom Segura]

But that first joke on a late night set's usually just like a throwaway because it never. It's. You throw it a good joke and it never gets what it deserves. And you're like, fuck, I like that joke.

[Judd Apatow]

I know.

[Bill Burr]

It's like riding a bike where you have to get that momentum. Now I'm rolling with that.

[Tom Segura]

First couple pedals, get him into the rhythm. Yeah. I mean, but you talk about doing the Young Comedian special in the book with Ray Romano, and I think the Apollo is on.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And you said how you just like, you never curse, but you were on hbo, so you're like, you just kept throwing in fucks for no reason.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. The fuck wasn't part of the punchline. I'm just like this fucking guy. And then they would play it on Comedy Central all the time, that special, and they would beep all the fucks. And it's like a Richard Pryor routine, but they're not for any good reason or any good joke. But when we taped that, it was in Arizona, and Ray Romano was just so funny. Like, we were taping the special and they would do interstitials where they would interview each of us for promos or things to put between the cost comics. And Ray was just smoking. Everything was just killing. And it was a moment where we all went, oh, my God, it's Rey. Yeah, Ray's gonna be the big guy.

[Bill Burr]

God, I saw him like a month ago at the Cellar and he had great new stuff. And I go, that one joke about the texting your wife is brilliant. He goes, that's just what happened. I didn't even write anything. Like, he's still killing. He was murdering.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, he's good, man.

[Bill Burr]

He's good.

[Tom Segura]

He's good.

[Bill Burr]

And squeaky. Squeaky clean. Yeah, he looks great.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. What? So it's amazing going through, like, the book where you have, like, you know, you're talking about, like, you have 40 year old virgin knocked up and then all the stuff you're just involved in where it's like Pineapple Express.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Bridesmaids. All these movies are like. It does bum me out that we don't see movies like this.

[Bill Burr]

I know, I know.

[Tom Segura]

We're working on one. We'll see what happens there. But, you know, be done.

[Judd Apatow]

We got to bang the door down.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, I mean, it's a weird moment.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, are you optimistic about it.

[Judd Apatow]

I don't know. I mean, I feel like everything is changing in a way that is so weird. There's going to be so much, like, AI Slop and crazy coming at us. So obviously, thank God for live, because that is what people are going to want, because they're going to. Their eyes are going to be blood red from watching just terrible stuff on their computers and phones all day, and they're just going to want to see real stuff with real people. But for comedy movies, I think that, you know, when DVD went away, that was half the money a comedy movie would make. So when there were no DVDs, suddenly it was a bigger bet to make a comedy where you could make a horror movie for $5 million, but a comedy might need 20, 25 million dollars to do a good one. And so they just started betting elsewhere. And then writers go, oh, there's no money in writing these screenplays. And then they just go, I'll just learn how to write horror movie or something else. Next thing you know, it kind of doom loops. Yes, in a way. But it. But, you know, it's always one giant hit away from becoming a market.

[Tom Segura]

But all the hits aren't comedies. Like, when it's not Oppenheimer, I guess Barbie's technically a comedy, but like. But like, it's like Oppenheimer. It's a movie like weapons. It's like. It's like horror movies or, like, big budget. Yeah, I'm sure the Odyssey will be a hit, you know, but.

[Bill Burr]

But then we both saw one battle after another, and you're like, this movie's amazing. Oh, my God, cinema's back. And then you hear it's made, it's lost millions. You're like, God, if this can't be a hit.

[Tom Segura]

Did you see that?

[Judd Apatow]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Bill Burr]

It's great. It's great.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

In his book, Judd talks about needing help editing Funny People, and he brings in Paul Thomas Anderson.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

To edit. It was just, like, hilarious. That's like. You're like, I'll just call one of the best directors ever to.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, well, he had, you know, just done Punch Drunk Love, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. Yeah, it's great. And so he came to see the movie, one of the previews, and he's so nice and obviously the best. And so I said, you want to come in? Help me. Because he's like, you know, the movie's too long. And, you know, when you hear that from me to take it seriously, so I go, why don't you just come in and just, like, show me where the cuts are? Because, you know, I really fall in love with the story. And if I lay it out and it just feels like this is the story, if it's 15, 20 minutes longer, I personally don't care at all. I'm like, well, that's just how long it takes to tell this. And so he went through it with me, and then I couldn't quite figure out how to time the ending. And I said, you want to, like, to just take a pop of the ending? I'll just go get something to eat. Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

What does that mean when you say that? Is he just, like, in a room?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. With the editor? Yeah. You know, and I said, like, I. You know, because there's that scene. It's in the supermarket. And at the end of the movie, Sandler pulls out these notes that he wrote some jokes for Seth, which we all know. If an older comedian wrote you a joke, when you're a young comedian, that's crazy. It's very rare that they're gonna do something. And that was like a sign that he was apologizing and they wanted to be friends with him. But I couldn't figure out the song or when to cut to the credits. And there was a song we were thinking about. Comedy Tonight. You know that song, something familiar, Comedy Tonight. It's from the old Larry Gelbart play with Zero Mostel in it. People will know. But anyway, so I left, and then he. He cut it, and it looked exactly like a Paul Thomas Anderson movie.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, no.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, it literally was like, oh, I could just give you my footage.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And your point of view is so clear and strong.

[Tom Segura]

I would love to see the Paul Thomas Anderson 40 year old virgin.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. I mean, it kind of blew my mind. I'm like, wait, this feels like him. Just like, you know, he edited to the music on an offbeat and then cut the black and, like, earlier than I would have. And it was a real lesson in the power of those choices.

[Tom Segura]

Like when a comic gives you a tag, but it's entirely in their voice. I can't. I can't use that.

[Bill Burr]

And that's risky, giving your movie to him. And that's like leaving your wife with Idris Elba. She might not come back. I know, but did you kind of go back and tweak it and make it your own?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, what's funny is I tested it in a version similar to that, and the movie was really long. It got longer. Maybe it's like, two hours and like, maybe like seven. Like 22 minutes.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

So when you're doing that, you're like, I gotta get this under two. Or you're like, whatever.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, I'm always like, I'm okay at like 210. Like, I know people want it to be 145, 150. And I'm like, you know what? We're like, where you going? What do you gotta get home to?

[Tom Segura]

Do you ever regret it or are you always like, nah, fuck it, it was right?

[Judd Apatow]

I never regret it. Only in the sense that I never have. People like, 10 years later say that it was too long. I think it's like a movie theater experience, because when you're in a theater, you're kind of antsy, but most people watch it at home anyway, and they pause and take a piss and have a sandwich. And so it's not the ongoing debate, it's just, what does it take to get to know the characters? And so I tested it, and it tested the highest it ever tested. So you ask the crowd how many people out of 300 people think this movie is excellent or very good? And that's like the number. And if you can be in like the 80s or above, you're pretty good. And it tested really high. But then I still cut like 10, 12 minutes out of it. And sometimes I regret that.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

There was a scene where he goes back to work at the end of the movie, and you see Sandler on a movie set and he's making a hot dog eating competition movie. And you kind of see him kind of hating his life making this movie that he doesn't like. And I'm the director and I'm trying to get him to eat six hot dogs in one take. I'm like, I just want to do a oner where you eat where we could see you eat six hot dogs. We just have to get it once. And it's just him going, I just had leukemia. I eat six hot dogs. And it's me trying to trick him into giving me one take.

[Bill Burr]

Damn.

[Judd Apatow]

And it was a pretty funny scene, but the movie was just. It was just too long.

[Bill Burr]

So funny. All that's gone. Oh, that's on a cutting room floor. Wow. Well, we wrote a movie and they. We were close to getting this thing made, and they keep saying, cut it, cut it down, shorten it short. So we had to get.

[Tom Segura]

But the problem was we. They wanted it longer originally. So we're like 120. And we're like, this is too long for what this movie is right.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And then they're like, it needs to be 100. And we're like, you made us write 120.

[Bill Burr]

So we padded it.

[Tom Segura]

So we. Well, we. We cut it down.

[Bill Burr]

I think.

[Tom Segura]

I think we're in a good place.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, but it did the. These queefs with their notes. You got to keep applying their notes. And you're like, you're making us cut jokes.

[Tom Segura]

We fought the joke.

[Bill Burr]

That's true.

[Tom Segura]

We were pretty good about keeping the jokes.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, that's part of what the book is about. Because, you know, I wanted the book to also be about all of the failures and everything that went wrong and why it went wrong. So I put in all the pilots that didn't get picked up, all the shows that were canceled, and just talked about where I handled it wrong because. Because there's an art to getting notes and having a conversation and not wanting to be upset with the people giving you the notes. Because usually some of them are good, some of them aren't. And so can you have that conversation without losing your mind, without losing your temper?

[Tom Segura]

What's the worst you lost, do you think?

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, I started out really bad because I got advice that I misinterpreted as a kid where this friend of mine was running In Living Color, and I was doing the Ben Stiller show, and he just said to me, he goes like, don't change anything for them, because if they screw up your pilot and it's bad because of their notes, they'll never apologize to you. They'll never say, we screwed up your pilot, so don't change anything for them that you don't want to change because you only get one shot at it. And I really took that in for years and was very resistant. And so sometimes when we were doing the Ben Stiller show, you know, the executive who's usually like a mid level guy, and he's getting notes from his boss and he gets in trouble if I don't do them, and he'll have all this laundry list of notes, a lot of which will ruin everything we're trying to do. And I just remember once I'm like, well, I'm doing nothing. I said, I'm doing none of them. What happens now?

[Bill Burr]

Ooh. And we got canceled.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, because there's nothing worse.

[Tom Segura]

Were the people you're working with like, dude, what the fuck are you doing?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, well, they were private conversations, but, yeah, we did have that feeling. Like, did Judd just screw all this up? Because right when the Ben Stiller show started, the head of the network changed. So it went from someone who loved it to someone who didn't.

[Tom Segura]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

And then I was like, well, why would you take notes for someone who doesn't like it at all?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

So he's gonna tweak it, but he doesn't like it.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And so I was very resistant.

[Bill Burr]

Why do these execs ever get fired? You always hear the guy. They do.

[Tom Segura]

They get fired constantly.

[Bill Burr]

Do they?

[Tom Segura]

I took a show out, the people we pitched who were different, like, six months later.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, okay.

[Tom Segura]

They're getting fired constantly. That's probably why they're living in such fear.

[Judd Apatow]

That's why there's a panic.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, I've been lucky. Like, in movies, the people I've worked with, I've worked with for, like, 18 years. And so we know each other and they're really smart and the notes are really good. And I realized, oh, you have to find the people that get you.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Because that's most of it. Like, if you wind up selling something to someone that doesn't get the joke, it's very painful. And if you find people who are really smart, like, the people at Universal have been so smart. Like, they've given me tough notes that have been correct. And so we, like, we get each other and we can have an honest conversation.

[Bill Burr]

Got it.

[Tom Segura]

It's very difficult to break into that world now, I think. I mean, not that it was easy back then, but, like, I think right now it's like we're finding, like, wow, this is pretty crazy.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, you know, I wrote a show that we got Brian Cox attached to. We struck out everywhere with him on the fucking pitches, and now it's like we have to go, you know, independent financing, which we're going to, which will be fine. But it's like this fucking Brian Cox.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, I know.

[Judd Apatow]

It's always been that way. Like, it's always been intense that way. Where you feel like you're in this environment where you're trying to be creative. Everything's an experiment.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

I think it works. But how do I know? I'm only going on, like, a gut instinct, but if you challenge me too much, I might lose touch with the part of me that gets why it works.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

And so, like, as it shifts, I might lose it.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

And so I'm trying to figure out, like, when should I listen, when should I not listen? Because I might lose the thread at some point, and that's the dance. And some people understand that. But if you're really nervous about your gig, and your boss is mad at you, and your last TV show got canceled. You might get different kinds of notes.

[Bill Burr]

That's true.

[Judd Apatow]

And none of us have had the therapy or the training to know that. That's such a delicate conversation. Like, if someone went through your act and just said, I'm gonna tell you which of your jokes are good and which aren't, like, you want to throttle them. Like, your instant thing is, like, to be a protector. Right. And. And.

[Tom Segura]

But especially when it's a comic you don't respect.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I'm like, oh, you didn't like that one? Have you seen your act?

[Bill Burr]

I know, I know. That's always weird. But at least now we have the advantage of. Because Tom Segura was in here and he's pitch. He sold some show. What's it called? Bad.

[Tom Segura]

Bad Things.

[Bill Burr]

Bad Things, Something like that. Bad Thoughts. It's a wild show. It's dark, it's gory. It's sexy. Gross. And he goes, I pitched this. They hated it. They never gave me the time of day. Then I shot it. I spent all the money, and then I brought it back and they sold it or they bought it in the room.

[Tom Segura]

It's literally what we had to do with our comedy specials. But, yes, shows and movies now. But, you know, there's people that want to get it. It's fun to make stuff. And there's people that want to get into this game as investors. I mean, it's not doable.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. You just got to prove it a little bit.

[Judd Apatow]

Now you have to find new paths and use the technology because it's cheaper to make things. I mean, it's hard with movies because there's all sorts of costs that you would never assume are there. But if you're scrappy, you can make cool comedy things. When I started out, what were you gonna do? Get, like, a Super 8 camera. But, you know, with a Canon camera, you can make a movie. Lena Dunham's first movie, she made for 50 grand on just a Canon, like a camera anyone would have. And it looked great. She just had an amazing cinematographer, Jodi Lee Leipz, who went on to do Girls, and it launched her career. So I feel like now we need people to have the energy to just make stuff down and dirty the way, like, Swingers was made or Clerks or something.

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Tom Segura]

Clerks is a great example, too. I mean. Cause it's so dialogue driven.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, right.

[Tom Segura]

And you talk about horror movie. It's like, okay, well, if it's psychological, it's Gonna be a lot of dialogue. Right. So get back to writing good dialogue, I think, is really the thing.

[Bill Burr]

Our movies got a lot of that.

[Tom Segura]

It's very dialogue heavy.

[Bill Burr]

It's all joke.

[Tom Segura]

We wrote a couple big things in where they're like, do we need a yacht for this scene? And we're. Yes. Non negotiable. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, you know, we did that with Pineapple Express because we had a limited amount of money. We wanted it to feel like an action movie, but we didn't have an action movie budget.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

So if, you know, if you watch it, the opening scene is Seth and Franco getting high for, like, 11 minutes, you know, and then, you know, you know, there's a little like, you know, someone gets shot, and then they get scared and they run in the woods, and they're just like, alone in the woods. High. Yeah, like, for another 10 minutes. And so. And then that saved us enough money to do, like, one big cut of car chase.

[Tom Segura]

But the last part is pretty damn action heavy.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

It's like we're saving all the money to blow up the underground, you know, marijuana grow lab.

[Bill Burr]

Now, speaking of docs and movies, have you seen the Scorsese doc yet?

[Judd Apatow]

I just, you know, I leaped to the King of Comedy episode.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that's.

[Judd Apatow]

That's my favorite movie.

[Tom Segura]

That's your number one Scorsese.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, I know it's my number one Scorsese. Goodfellas, I think, is the one that I probably go back to the most, the taxi drivers. But King of Comedy, I remember when it came out, I literally can remember seeing it in Hicksville. It was right after Reagan got shot, so people got really weirded out by the whole kidnapping thing. But I always loved it. I just was out of my mind for that movie. And it's funny to hear him talk about it because he was kind of pushed into it by De Niro, but yet he still worked his ass off on it and went deep with it. And it's held up kind of like what Warren Beatty was saying. These movies that at the time were completely forgotten and people didn't get it. And then suddenly you're like, yeah, King of Comedy is top five, right? Scorsese.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, that's interesting. But didn't people. Because he said that. It's not always true, though, because it wasn't Bonnie and Clyde critically acclaimed out of the gate.

[Judd Apatow]

It was. That one was. Yeah, that was a big movie, and that kind of changed cinema at the time.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, but Scorsi, I didn't realize they cover the backlash he got a ton of backlash for that. He got a ton of backlash for Taxi Driver. A ton of backlash for the Last Temptation of Christ.

[Judd Apatow]

That was real. I mean, I remember that when that movie came out. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

They bombed a theater. A guy died.

[Tom Segura]

Damn.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. I mean, there were protests around the world.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. And then they said, so what you do? How'd you get out of. He goes, I made good, fellas. So he just moved on. But he said the most backlash he got was Wolf of Wall street, cuz it was 2013, so it was like toxic mail, problematic massage, by the way.

[Tom Segura]

That's the point. Point.

[Bill Burr]

I know. It's like it was also the birth of social media and like, you know, cancel. So he was like, this is new. Like I got more for this than the. The passion of the Christ. Or not Passion, Temptation of the Christ. So you're like, oh yeah, this is a new world you're living in now. And he didn't realize that. So that was really interesting to see.

[Judd Apatow]

Cuz people are like, are you celebrating this?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And so clearly not. I know, but yeah, that's part of it is like, you see why people are seduced by that life style. You know, a lot of those people.

[Tom Segura]

If people don't take the right message from his. He's not. He can't, you know, he can't hammer them. By the way, this guy's not cool at the end.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Tom Segura]

You know, good fellas. He ends up at witness protection. Like, is it fun on the rise? Yeah, that's the point. It's supposed to be fun.

[Judd Apatow]

A bunch of guys from my high school were part of that. Oh, Jordan Belfort.

[Bill Burr]

Wall Street.

[Judd Apatow]

That. That place?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Wow. Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, that's.

[Judd Apatow]

A lot of kids in our high school got in trouble for stuff like that.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, cool.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. But. But it reminded me as a comedian of like when people, you do the joke about the racist guy and they're like, hey, that's racist. You're like, I know, I'm making fun of the hillbilly. That's the. He's the punch of the joke. But so it was really cool to see Scorsese just go like, yeah, people get mad and moving on. That's what you got to do.

[Tom Segura]

You just got to keep going, focus on your. On your work, you know, just like, is my act getting better?

[Bill Burr]

Exactly.

[Tom Segura]

Is this moving in the right direction? Yeah, you can't worry about.

[Bill Burr]

Right, right. But really, really great Doc. And boy, the coke fueled moments and the depression. He's got like seven wives. He's got 28 kids. It's fascinating.

[Judd Apatow]

I know. I forgot how intense he. Oh, my God, is he so mellow now? I mean, mellow comparatively to what he was then, but just that. That he's literally gonna kill himself because he feels uninspired to make a movie.

[Bill Burr]

I know. And he had Goodfellas and Temptation. Like, I just want to make those two movies. That's all I want to do. And everybody's like, why do you want to make this shit? And then he does it, and it's great. But the fact that he had asthma in Greenwich Village or Little Italy, and his dad took him to the movies because it had air conditioning. Wow. That's. Then he's like, this is it. So just the stars aligning. I mean, so cool.

[Tom Segura]

And that he. The fact that he meets Paul Schrader, I mean, that guy's, like, perfect for his writing.

[Bill Burr]

Perfect.

[Tom Segura]

It's like, sometimes you just meet the right person. Like Keith Richards met Mick Jagger.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Tom Segura]

People. Sometimes you just. The stars align.

[Bill Burr]

And De Niro lived down the street on grand street, just in the same area. I mean, the whole thing's been.

[Judd Apatow]

That's like, what I. When I was, you know, doing the book and laying it all out and thinking about all the stories, you do go. Yeah, it's weird. Like, Adam McKay and Will Ferrell.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, Connect.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I forgot you did Anchorman.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, I produced Anchorman and Talladega Nights. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

That's crazy.

[Judd Apatow]

But just that they.

[Tom Segura]

They couldn't. They wouldn't make it, right?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, they wouldn't make Anchorman for years. They just didn't get it at all. And we would just pitch it. You know, Will and Adam, you know, they wrote one version of it that was like the movie Alive.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, really?

[Judd Apatow]

Where it was like a plane of anchor people going to an anchorman convention. So everyone on the plane is an anchor person, and Rodney Burgundy wants to fly the plane, and they get in this, like, accident where they hit a. They crash. Got into a FedEx plane that's filled with chimpanzees and Chinese throwing stars is what they're transporting in the FedEx. And then. So now they're stuck on the side of a mountain in winter trying to survive. And every once in a while, they get attacked by the monkeys throwing. Throwing stars at them. And they wrote. It's the funniest thing. And no one would make that for a while. And then they just started over, wrote another one.

[Tom Segura]

Well, he tapped in. It's funny you brought up the toxic masculinity because that's like, what that movie is. You're tapping into a dude who's just like. Doesn't, like, under. But that's why it's funny, because he's like, I'm the shit.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I'm the greatest. No woman's gonna tell me I'm not great. And that's. And then, of course, you get the love story. It's perfect.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, they were just so ahead of their time in thinking that was a good target. And that's something that's bubbling under in this country. People like that because they loved making fun of the arrogant idiot man.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah. Blissfully Unaware is funny.

[Bill Burr]

Of course. That's what Kramer is. He comes in, he thinks he's the coolest guy, but he's a doofus. He's a hipster doofus. But, yeah, yeah, that movie changed. I saw it once with a couple friends in college. We didn't really get it. And then we saw it again and we loved it. It was the weirdest movie, but I still quote it.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, it's some. It's. I mean, just to watch them shoot it, like, I like part of, like, the comedy nerd thing is I sometimes feel like I only did things to have access. Like, only by making decent movies can I get to the places where I want to just watch them make the movie.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

So as a kid, I would just. My dream would be, want to watch the Marx Brothers or somebody make a movie. So Anchorman, to me, is like the childhood dream come true. Just sitting on set, watching them shoot afternoon delight.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

But I have to be good enough to get the credibility to be there.

[Bill Burr]

Right, Right. You know, it's like going to Home EC for the girls.

[Judd Apatow]

Exactly.

[Bill Burr]

Wow, man. Yeah. Seeing it. Seeing. That's Will Ferrell really in his element. Well, I guess all those movies, talenting at nights is amazing.

[Tom Segura]

Amazing. He's locked in.

[Bill Burr]

Sasha Baron Cohen is great in that. Oh, man. Wow. Right. Right in there. Right in the thick of it.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, Bridesmaids, too is like, yes. I mean, so many good jokes. I rewatched that recently on a flight, and I was like, holy. I. I remember liking this a lot, but it's even funnier than I remember.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Ham is such a piece of.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Kristen Wiig, Rose Byrne are so fun. Melissa McCarthy, they're so funny, all of them. It's like, yeah, it's great.

[Bill Burr]

And it was one of those, like, this is a funny women movie, but it was just a funny movie, you know, and everybody had to put this women label on It. It was just good.

[Tom Segura]

That's why I said, let's do Lady Ghostbusters. How about fucking make an original script like that? Just make original movies.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, well, no one was thinking that it even was a female driven comedy. It was just. Yeah, I saw. I saw Kristen Wiig, like literally the first episode of SNL that she was on. And she scored so much on the first episode.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Judd Apatow]

And I just thought, oh, this is. She's one of the greats. And so she was in Knocked up, she played Katherine Heigl's boss, like one of the bosses in that scene where they tell her to tighten it up.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

With Alan Tudyk. And so we were always like, what can we do with her? And then her and Annie Mumelo, they kept talking about how they're invited to all of these weddings and they're sometimes in other cities and, you know, they don't have enough money to be a part of it because they're getting more and more expensive and that. And they grinded for like four years on the script. And that's why it's good. It's just because the two of them. And then later when Paul Feig came on to direct, they just did not stop trying to make it better. It wasn't tossed off. They really obsessed. And then also when I think about when did I have a good instinct every once in a while. It's a very simple thing that Kristen Wiig really feels like she knows her world of comedy and which of her friends are great. And I think that Paul and I just got behind that in a big way. And so when you watch it, it feels like a troupe because it's everyone that Kristen loves, you know, and she was just completely right when she would bring in people like Melissa McCarthy, she was great.

[Tom Segura]

It was also funny. Cause at the time I remember, I knew, I think Rose Byrne from that show Damages on ff. And I was like, oh, she's a good actress. Actress. I didn't know she could do comedy, though.

[Bill Burr]

I know.

[Tom Segura]

She played it so straight. And it's like you need that in a movie sometimes. Like when it's all comedians. Like, no, you need the one non comic in there sometimes.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, well, we.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, we used to watch on Damages and Love Drawn Down.

[Tom Segura]

That was a cool show. I don't know Glenn Close. Yeah, she's a badass on that show.

[Judd Apatow]

And then she played Russell Brand's ex wife in get him to the Greek.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, really?

[Judd Apatow]

That was so funny.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, if I saw that one.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that was big. Did. Is that Jonah. Jonah Hill story true, that he was discovered by Dustin Hoffman?

[Judd Apatow]

I think so. I think the first thing he did was I heart Huckabees, maybe.

[Bill Burr]

Ah, wow. All right. Yeah. The. The. The rumor is he was in an open mic and Dustin Hoffman was there watching his daughter. Oh, I don't know. Maybe give that a go. I don't know. I heard that. That's Whisper Network.

[Judd Apatow]

Sounds familiar.

[Bill Burr]

Okay. And now he's. Now he's great. Great. All right. Sorry. I'm locked in on this Jonah Hill thing.

[Tom Segura]

Pick up Judd's new book. It's awesome.

[Bill Burr]

It's true.

[Judd Apatow]

What does it say?

[Tom Segura]

He says he didn't discover, but his son.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, shit. Damn it, Jake Did. I thought it said did. Okay. My fault. Glad we thank God for A.I.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. You're using the A.I.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, he's dating his daughter. Oh, that's 2012.

[Tom Segura]

We're bad at the news on this show.

[Judd Apatow]

A.I. is very behind. It's scraping old information.

[Tom Segura]

Get Judd's new book, Comedy Nerd. It's awesome. It's. It's really. See his body of work? Really, really cool. And it's cool pictures and cool stories.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah. And you got your first time doing stand up in there. I mean, you got so much great archival stuff.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, one thing I found in there that I was so excited to find that Rick Messina, the great manager, found was just an incredible picture of Eddie Murphy doing stand up when he's 20 years old on Long island at Eastside.

[Tom Segura]

Wow.

[Judd Apatow]

Like, that's the things. Like, when you start reaching out, like, who's got cool stuff?

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And there was all these pictures from Eastside, which was the great comedy club in Huntington. I was a dishwasher as a kid in high school.

[Tom Segura]

The theater there, too. That's a sick theater.

[Judd Apatow]

I haven't played that.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, it's sick.

[Bill Burr]

That's great. It's a gorgeous Huntington's. Kind of like this weird hidden gem. It's got that strip of bars on it. Walt Whitman's from there.

[Judd Apatow]

That's true. I went to Walt Whitman Elementary School.

[Bill Burr]

Hey, I'm back.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

All right. There you go. Long Island. What the. What's going on in the water at Long Island?

[Judd Apatow]

It's gotten so weird. It's just the.

[Bill Burr]

Well, I'm not talking about the comedy. It's like Howard Stern, Jerry Seinfeld, you Eddie Murphy.

[Judd Apatow]

I thought you talk about all the serial killers.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, it's got a little Billy Joel. It's got a little everything.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, when I was a kid, I Thought like, oh, maybe I could be in comedy because so many people were from Long Island.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And so you would see, you know, Seinfeld and people like that and just go like, oh, I feel like I'm kind of like that a little bit.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

Remember when Seinfeld gets off stage at Governors and Media, he's like, it's like another country. I'm like, holy shit. I've never related to a quote more. I've taken some fucking L's.

[Bill Burr]

That's really Alabama.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really like Governors is like Governors.

[Judd Apatow]

Is where I started. It can be.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Judd Apatow]

And back then, the open mic night a lot of times was hosted by this hilarious comedian, John Mulroney.

[Tom Segura]

I've heard of it.

[Judd Apatow]

And John, you know, it was like a Rickles esque act, but with like a tough, you know, I don't know if he was in Brooklyn, but he had that kind of like energy and he would really mix it up with the crowd. It would get like hilariously ugly.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And. But he was hosting an open mic, so then he would kill and destroy the crowd. Humiliate them. Then you would get up and the crowd thought, oh, we're supposed to yell at the comedian. And then we couldn't handle it. And then the crowd would take us down.

[Bill Burr]

We have that now with the crowd work comics. Everybody's trying to get a clip. So they go, hey, where are you from, homo? Look at this douche. So then you go up there and you're like, so Uber's weird. And they're like, boo.

[Judd Apatow]

Boring.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, just do it on your own show. I know we gotta. We've been away. So we do have to mention this Diane Keaton.

[Bill Burr]

The best.

[Tom Segura]

The best rip.

[Bill Burr]

Did you work with her?

[Judd Apatow]

I didn't, but I was telling someone that I went to a party once and I got there really early and. And me and her were the only people there. And so I got like a great half hour.

[Bill Burr]

Wow.

[Judd Apatow]

Chatting with her.

[Bill Burr]

How was that?

[Judd Apatow]

You talked a lot about. There's a lot of. She was talking about like architecture or something. But she was so funny and kind of like what you think she would be. She really was just unique and hilarious and very cool. And when you watch the stuff, you know. Cause there's all these things online of her. She's just so interesting.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Like there's a great clip going around of her on. On the COB Report and it's just so funny and charming her with him and they're like flirting and whoa. You know, check it Out. See what you think.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Woody Allen said, I didn't care what the critics say. I just would try to get her approval. It was all about Diane Keaton.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, Annie hall even played against Sam is so good. And then all those Woody Allen love and death.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. Sleeper.

[Judd Apatow]

She's baby Boom.

[Tom Segura]

Manhattan Murder Mystery.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Segura]

She was shoot the moon. Godfather.

[Judd Apatow]

The Godfather.

[Tom Segura]

I mean, that's crazy to be an Annie.

[Bill Burr]

I know. That's the two most different, right?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, she said you couldn't really get work. Everyone else was getting working because she was considered more of kind of an odd bird. And then they put her in the Godfather and that's what changed everything. But before that, they thought she wasn't traditional enough.

[Bill Burr]

Right, Right.

[Judd Apatow]

But that's why she was great.

[Tom Segura]

But also, you know, apparently the costume designer in Annie hall like, hated her because she's like, I don't want her to wear this shit look bad. But then it becomes iconic.

[Bill Burr]

Right.

[Judd Apatow]

And I never heard that. Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And it's. You look at that and you're like. It's funny. I'd see a girl out in like a. Like a hat like that, an outfit that's hot. And you're like, oh, yeah. Because I probably got my first boner to Annie hall when I was like 12, you know, because she was like weird and she was like the hot, but like, kind of cool.

[Bill Burr]

Quirky.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

And like clever. I mean, the banter and Annie hall is insane. It's. They're so good together.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, in a way, there's really no precedent for that before her.

[Bill Burr]

No.

[Judd Apatow]

That type of character.

[Bill Burr]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

Maybe Shirley MacLaine in something like the Apartment.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, that's a great one, too.

[Bill Burr]

Fun fact. Shirley MacLaine said she couldn't keep up with Warren Beatty's needs. Wait, no. Were they sister. Oh, I'm sorry.

[Tom Segura]

Mark's really. He's really roughing on the news this episode.

[Bill Burr]

Joan Collins, who did he date?

[Judd Apatow]

I think Joan Collins.

[Bill Burr]

All right. That's the one.

[Tom Segura]

He dated Diane Keaton, too.

[Bill Burr]

Is that right?

[Tom Segura]

Yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Wow. Good for her.

[Judd Apatow]

I went to go see Diane Keaton shoot something with Warren Beatty was this movie called Town and Country. And it was. It just. Everything was going wrong. And it was, you know, supposed to be like a 45, 50 day shoot. It's like day 95.

[Tom Segura]

Oh.

[Judd Apatow]

Everyone's getting crazy. Gary Shandling was in it. He's like, you want to come? And so I go to this house and they're shooting in this, like, small room in a house, and they're like, oh, go by the monitor. And you know when, like, you're in a space and, like, they're working and you shouldn't be watching at their monitor. So I'm really, like, uncomfortable. And Warren Beatty's doing the scene with Diane Keaton. And then, you know, they yell, cut. And I, like, try to slip out of the room. And as I'm, like, exiting the room, Warren Beatty just goes, that bad?

[Tom Segura]

You say, you won't know for 10 years. So, yeah.

[Bill Burr]

Damn.

[Tom Segura]

Damn, dude.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, there it is.

[Judd Apatow]

Town and country.

[Bill Burr]

Warren Beatty. What a hunk.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Tom Segura]

So was he a cool guy? Warren?

[Judd Apatow]

So nice. Yeah, he was very nice. And I remember he did the very last episode of the Larry Sanders show, right? The joke was that Larry bumps into him in a parking lot and asks him if he'll be a guest on the very, like, the final episode of the Larry Sanders Show. And the joke is that he's pitching it, like, can you do it? It really would mean a lot to me. It's a big deal. We've been on for so long, and this is the last one. And your career means so much to me. And that Warren Beatty just goes, no. And then just drives away. And so, like, it's all set up. Everyone thinks he's going to be late. He's not late. Yeah, everyone thinks he's going to want a zillion takes. He doesn't. But then he just pulls me aside and he goes, explain this joke to me. Why is this funny? And I go, I don't know. You're born baity and, like, you're so much better than this dumb talk show. And why would this guy ever think that you would do it? And then you're just like, yeah, no, I'm not doing this. And he's like, okay, I get it.

[Tom Segura]

But also, like, he. But he's doing it, so that's fun. That's a weird, meta thing about things. But he is fucking Warren Beatty, and he is doing it. I don't know. I get it. But it is funny that you're like, yeah, he should like Larry Sanders in that world, I think. I don't know. Yeah, no, it's also cool to see. It is. I feel like he never really did a comedy. Really?

[Bill Burr]

He did Bulworth.

[Judd Apatow]

Oh, bull. Yeah, Bullworth.

[Tom Segura]

And.

[Judd Apatow]

And, you know, Heaven Can Wait now. Heaven Can Wait is one of the great comedies. And then, you know, Ishtar, which doesn't totally work, but the first half is pretty funny.

[Tom Segura]

Is it?

[Judd Apatow]

There is some funny stuff.

[Tom Segura]

Elaine May, like, Kind of like not give her a shot for a while, I guess.

[Judd Apatow]

It was very expensive. And they shot in the desert and.

[Bill Burr]

Right, right.

[Judd Apatow]

But it definitely has way more great stuff than. Okay, I would think, in the first half.

[Tom Segura]

Half.

[Bill Burr]

That was the go to punchline for a while. Yes, that and Shampoo.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, and Shampoo. Kind of a dark comedy.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not great.

[Tom Segura]

I know. People love it.

[Judd Apatow]

Many things are of their moment.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right.

[Judd Apatow]

But if you grew up during the Nixon administration, you would really.

[Tom Segura]

The cave. And Ms. Miller holds up. That's incredible.

[Bill Burr]

All right, well, get the book, folks. Get the book. Get the comedy nerd book.

[Tom Segura]

Rip. I know we're late on it because we were in Europe, but rip. Diane Keaton, the best. We loved it.

[Judd Apatow]

All right.

[Bill Burr]

And much like an Apatow movie, this is going long.

[Judd Apatow]

I'm gonna show you how it's done. We're gonna linger.

[Bill Burr]

Let me call Paul Thomas.

[Tom Segura]

Great to see you, dude.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, good stuff. Thanks for coming in. Comedy.

[Tom Segura]

You gonna plug this or.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah, good idea. Hey, I'll be in San Diego, California. Two shows at the Observatory in North park, then Prior Lake in Minneapolis. Minneapolis, Minnesota, That's a casino. Then we got Kansas City. Going back to the clubs to build a new hour. Des Moines, Funny Bone Brea at the Bray Improv.

[Tom Segura]

Nice.

[Bill Burr]

And boy, oh, boy. Spirit Mountain Casino. Making a cash grab there. Oregon, I guess. New Brunswick, back at the Stress Factory. San Antonio, Tulsa and Arizona and India. Indianapolis, Buffalo. You, you. The list goes on. Go to my website. It's all there. What do you got, fast?

[Tom Segura]

I got. I'm at wise guys. November 14th through 16th. My second time at the club this year. I love that club. And I'm in Reno, Nevada, at the Atlantis casino. Two shows, November 29th. I'm not there for money. I'm excited to be in Reno Thanksgiving weekend. And then December 4th, Carnegie Hall. I'm gonna add a bunch.

[Bill Burr]

Whoa.

[Tom Segura]

Yeah, I'll see you there. I'm gonna add a bunch more stuff early next year. I gotta get on it. I'm gonna figure that out. But, yeah, a lot of cities this year.

[Judd Apatow]

I saw him in Kirk. Carnegie Hall.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, that's right.

[Judd Apatow]

Jimmy Carr.

[Bill Burr]

Jimmy Carr Show.

[Tom Segura]

I should have gone to that.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, it was a bail. It was a fun time. All right, well, thanks, gang.

[Judd Apatow]

Thank you.

[Bill Burr]

You got any dates? You'll be on the road.

[Judd Apatow]

When's this run? This runs November 16th. I have no dates. All right, Mel Brooks, Doc in January.

[Bill Burr]

There we go.

[Tom Segura]

Oh, that'll be good.

[Bill Burr]

That's huge.

[Tom Segura]

Bodega cat whiskey guys dot com. Get a bottle per for the holidays. All right, see you soon, guys.

[Bill Burr]

In hell.

[Judd Apatow]

Comedy Sunday's a date on my next bender. You know the beer Jew's close I've had a little too much burping and Norman's talking shit about the fucking poke.

[Bill Burr]

And I get down in the same.

[Judd Apatow]

Way up on the roof like the cops coming and naked Samuel is feeling dangerous I'm out to lunch here in.

[Bill Burr]

New Orleans this woman doesn't look like I remember her and I get down in the same way.

[Judd Apatow]

We might be.

[Tom Segura]

True.

[Judd Apatow]

As a raider scavenging a derelict world, you settle into an underground settlement. But now you must return to the.

[Bill Burr]

Surface where arc machines roam.

[Judd Apatow]

If you're brave enough, who knows what you might find. Arc Raiders, a multiplayer extraction adventure video game. Buy now for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and S and PC.

[Tom Segura]

Rated T for teenager.