Akon: The Truth About My Multiple Wives & The Real Cost of Fame

Summary

Podcast Summary: We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson

Episode: Akon – The Truth About My Multiple Wives & The Real Cost of Fame

Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Paul C. Brunson (WNTT)
Guest: Akon

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode features an in-depth, vulnerable, and engaging conversation between host Paul C. Brunson and international superstar Akon. The two explore Akon’s complex personal history—including his upbringing in Senegal and the US, his time in jail, his business acumen, and spirituality—as well as fame, his role in the evolution of Afrobeats, his approach to relationships and polyamory, and the real meaning behind his infamous “multiple wives” narrative. Akon provides rare insight into the costs and privileges of fame, his dedication to Africa’s development, and his mindset on legacy, business, and purpose.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Early Life, Family, and Upbringing

• Akon was born in St. Louis but raised in Senegal, returning to the US at age 7 or 8.
  • "My dad was a forward thinker… Every time one of us was born, he would fly my mom to the States… then send us back to Africa." (43:09)
• Large polygamous family: “My dad… he’s 18. Literally, yeah… I don’t even know the number [of siblings]… like my pops is about 89 now, and I got a nine year old brother, so he had a child at 80.” (44:04)
• Grew up with strong family values, communal living, and respect for multiple faiths.

2. Struggles, Hustling, and Turning Point

• Akon recalls hustling in Newark and Jersey City, running a car theft operation and using his proceeds to fund music studios.
  • “Last thing I wanted to do was call my dad for the electricity or for a phone or a water bill for nothing.” (49:44)
  • “Stealing cars was... making like 200, maybe $250,000 a week... that was the biggest mistake I should've ever made—bring in help.” (52:13)
• Caught and sentenced to 3 years in jail—transformative period.
  • “When I got out, the first thing I did was go and start recording all the songs that I wrote when I was in jail.” (56:56)
  • “Locked Up was the first record that I wanted to release because I felt like that was the moment that I was in at that time.” (57:07)

3. Music as Vehicle, Faith & Purpose

• Akon viewed music not as an end, but a vehicle for broader purpose, especially for Africa.
  • “That’s when I realized, okay, music is just a vehicle for me to do what I need to do.” (27:50)
• Spirituality, legacy, and giving back are central themes.
  • “Africa is where I need to be doing it… the more I got into those things, more things were introduced. And that’s when we got into the electricity… that's what opened the door.” (30:58)
• Charitable work led to initiatives like providing rural electrification.

4. Business Mindset & Ringtone Revolution

• Akon credits his success, in part, to his business-forward mindset—especially understanding digital music and ringtones.
  • “I always retained my digital rights… ringtones came up, and those were $5.99 for 15 seconds... I need to be focusing on ringtones. Every song that I make has to be ringtone friendly.” (21:27-23:17)
  • Used ringtones as a marketing strategy—a walking billboard for his music.

5. Crossover, Audience, and Cultural Reach

• Akon reflects on making “pain” and “black stories” accessible to global audiences.
  • “You’ve been able to take pain… a story that traditionally is centered in black culture and make it accessible to everybody.” (09:56)
• Unusual dynamic: audience is mostly non-black except in Africa, which he views as success in spreading understanding.
  • “Black people don’t wanna hear the same story that they’re actually going through right now… the more of a group… that I felt haven’t experienced what we’re experiencing is what I want to see out there.” (12:13-12:24)

6. Mindset vs. System: The Black Community & Africa

• Host and Akon discuss whether Black empowerment is more about mindset or systemic barriers.
  • Akon: “It’s our mindset because the mindset is what creates the system… our mindset hasn’t been mature enough to understand that unity is the power…” (15:04)
• Cites Nigeria and Africa’s musical explosion as an example of untapped, now-unleashed potential.
  • “My goal was to make sure that everybody understood that I’m just one of almost 2 billion Africans that actually have some kind of talent that could be showcased to the rest of the world.” (17:58)

7. Legacy, Spirituality, and the Michael Jackson Connection

• Shares working with Michael Jackson as a “crowning achievement” and the lessons learned from Jackson’s humility and lack of ego.
  • “Working with him made me understand why he’s as big as he is—because he had no ego.” (36:41)
  • Candidly questions the official narrative of Jackson’s death, expressing both skepticism and spiritual comfort regarding mortality.
  • “Death was never an issue for me… what have you accomplished before then, or was your purpose fulfilled before you died?” (40:41)

8. Relationships & Polyamory: Truth or “Entertainment”?

• Akon’s relationship status—including “multiple wives”—is recurrently designated as “entertainment.” He keeps the details ambiguous for media and privacy.
  • “Is it more than the president of Senegal?” Akon: “It’s entertainment.” (84:19)
  • On how his polyamorous family works: “The women… can alternate roles… so a woman’s role is really to manage the household… you have other sisters that can work with you... their job is cut in however many wives you may have.” (87:41)
  • First wife’s position is “the queen... nobody violates wife number one.” (89:03)
• Acknowledges emotional complexity and responsibilities:
  • “You’ve got to be able to understand that when they’re going through a level of emotional distress, you got to be able to ease that.” (91:35)
• Repeated phrase: “That’s entertainment”—a running joke but also commentary on how public narratives can mask and manipulate reality.

9. Marketing, Social Media, and Rage-Bait

• Akon openly discusses “strategic ignorance” in marketing—using controversy to drive engagement and spark important cultural conversations.
  • “Sometimes I may say the dumbest thing online… to create a conversation about something that’s important… It opens up a whole conversation.” (69:57–71:33)
  • “You gotta know how to manipulate the algorithm because the attention span is only small and the average person is going to respond to something negative before they respond to something positive.” (72:46–73:00)

10. Current Projects & Ten-Year Vision

• New album “Beautiful Day” (94:10) fuses musical growth with Afrocentric and spiritual influences; designed to “make music feel good again.”
  • “You can definitely hear the growth from Trouble to Convicted to Freedom to Beautiful Day. You’ll be able to see how they align…” (94:10–94:33)
• Akon hints at secret, transformative projects around African development, to “cement my legacy.” (95:32–96:42)
  • “The next plan is gonna cement my legacy. Like nothing you’ve seen before in your life… It’s entertainment.” (96:07–96:45)
  • Pledges WNTT will get the exclusive when he’s ready to share: “I’m giving you my word today, you’ll be the one I give the exclusive to.” (97:46)

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• On Universal Emotional Pain:
  “We're all going through something. We're all going through the same thing, just in different directions, or is being translated differently or culturally it feels like you're going through something different, but this is the exact same thing.” – Akon [10:13]
• On Music as a Vehicle:
  “Music is just a vehicle for me to do what I need to do.” – Akon [27:50]
• On Polyamorous Family:
  “Their job is cut in however many wives you may have, if it’s four times… that’s four times less work you have to do because you have other sisters that can work with you on those situations.” – Akon [87:41] “The first wife… is always gonna be the first wife, no matter what… She's the queen.” – Akon [89:03]
• On Death and Purpose:
  “Death is promised. The question is, once you die, how will you be remembered? What have you accomplished before then? Was your purpose fulfilled before you died?” – Akon [40:19]
• On Strategic Controversy:
  “Sometimes I may say the dumbest thing online… to create a conversation about something that's important... It opens up a whole conversation.” – Akon [69:57]
• On Michael Jackson’s Work Ethic:
  “He had no ego… If I would have asked Mike to bark on the record, he would’ve did it… He gives you 100% trust when he hires you to do something.” – Akon [36:41–38:17]
• On Mentors and Legacy:
  “You're going to get to a point in your life when you're going to be able to speak to billions of people and you have to decide, what do you say when you get there? …Always say something that's going to lead to something that's gonna help humanity.” – Advice from Akon’s grandfather [98:46–100:45]

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IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

• Upbringing, Family & Early Hustle: 43:02–51:03
• Jail, Vision Board & Turning to Music: 56:33–63:28
• Music as Purpose / Africa’s Development: 27:50–31:36 & 94:07–96:07
• Ringtone Revolution & Business Acumen: 21:09–23:17
• Polyamory & Relationships: 78:20–93:52
  • “Entertainment” as a motif for privacy and deflecting direct questions
• Marketing Strategy & Social Media: 69:54–73:00
• Michael Jackson Collaboration: 34:13–41:02
• Spirituality, Legacy, Death: 40:03–44:41, 94:07–96:42, 98:46–103:40

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FINAL REFLECTIONS

The episode stands out as a candid, at-times philosophical look at both the glamour and burdens of Akon’s unusual life, and the role music, business, and identity play in shaping an enduring global legacy. Akon’s humor, self-awareness, and ambiguous “That’s entertainment” catchphrase signal both candor and media savvy, setting an example of how to control one’s narrative in the public eye. The underlying message is a call for deeper unity—especially within the African diaspora—and the courage to turn struggle into legacy.

Host’s closing thought: “That is what we need more of in society is conversation. It's a great reminder that we can have different views on things and still get along. I'm still going to the concert.” (104:17)

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To Learn More

Listen to the full episode for nuanced insight into Akon's views on fame, culture, love, business, and purpose.
Follow WNTT on Instagram: @needtotalk and TikTok: @weneedtotalkpod

End of Summary.

Transcript

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[Host]

You believe in polyamory? So then, Akon, can you say, how many wives do you have?

[Akon]

I'm serious. Aight, yo. Because I like you and you are my brother. I am nobody.

[Host]

Not only are you a musician, artist, but also I'm a businessman.

[Akon]

I just wanted to be rich. But the problem is popularity comes with a cost. Like Michael Jackson is my boy, but I just feel like there's a lot of holes on the explanation of his death.

[Host]

So as your power and influence grows, do you ever fear a threat against your life?

[Akon]

My goal was to make rich or die trying. Literally.

[Host]

It was stealing cars.

[Akon]

Yep. And now I'm in jail. That's what inspired me, man, to do this, man. Cause I felt like this ain't the life I want to live. When I was in there, I would just ride on strength. So now every time a guard would walk past, we would sing the song out together. Locked up. They won't let me out. They won't let me out of lodge. That's when I realized, okay, music is just a vehicle for me to do what I need to do.

[Host]

All right, so I didn't know we we would get into this topic. Right, but we gotta. I mean, we're here.

[Akon]

We're here.

[Host]

We need to talk.

[Akon]

I'm giving you my word today, you'll be the one I give the exclusive to.

[Host]

Hey there. Before we begin the episode, I just want to say thank you for choosing we need to Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow. And the Bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. Now, do you know what? I think the first thing that I heard about you and Neo on tour was. I saw clips. You know what I saw clips of?

[Akon]

Oh, yeah, Me and the pants, the bar. You know, I've been doing that since 2008.

[Host]

No, I didn't know it.

[Akon]

I've been doing it since 2008, man. But back then there was no social media. There was none of that. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

And it was interesting because it really got famous when I did it in Africa.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Cause for the first time I was able to perform in the stadiums in Africa. And I was like, oh, this is the perfect, like the perfect tool. Because before I would just crowd surf, I'd jump off the top speaker right into the audience and they'd catch me, throw me around. But then, you know, that was just too risky. People would get hurt. So then I got sued a few times. Well, more than a few times. Every time I did a show, I was damn near buying somebody a house. Oh, really? I gotta figure something else out. And that's how that came about. I said, okay, this is a way I can go into the crowd. It's mad safe and it's an attraction.

[Host]

Yes, but is it safe though?

[Akon]

Yeah, super, super safe.

[Host]

Is it? Because honestly, when I see it, you look like you're like bouncing, bro.

[Akon]

I'm like a little kid. Like literally, like I'm literally in a plastic ball. That surrounding is as far as I go, I don't go farther. So even if they was to drop me on the floor, I'm on my feet. Or if I'm not, the ball gonna hit the ground first and then I'm right behind it. You feel what I'm saying? So it's like the distance from me into the floor is like, you know, less than a foot.

[Host]

And then I guess for the fans, they get an opportunity.

[Akon]

It's amazing. And as close as they can ever get, they get a nice little photo in the process. And then a mix of all the fun and the craziness. Yes, it's really dope. It's really dope.

[Host]

So then on tour, because you've been on tour many times throughout your career now, what are the songs that you most like to perform?

[Akon]

I mean, I love all my songs, bro. Like, when I wrote them, they was all experience based songs. So they all mean something different. It's not like a favorite, it's all like a meaning. You know what I mean? Like, every song has a specific feeling that it gives you a specific place in your heart that actually, you know, you could say reside. It's like, it's hard to say, okay, which is my favorite song.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

If that makes sense.

[Host]

All right, so then let me hit you with a tougher question. That is, which song carries almost the most pain with.

[Akon]

Was a lot of those. The first album was all pain.

[Host]

Was it?

[Akon]

I mean, outside of Bonanza. Yeah, that was the. Every whole album was pain. But I mean, when you look at Locked up, that was a wake up moment. I think that record is what saved my life in general. Cause had not gotten Locked Up. I wouldn't never wrote it. You know, Mr. Lonely. A lot of pain in that one. Trouble Nobody. Yeah, a lot of them is mainly earlier songs, to be honest. The first album. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Cause, yeah, when you start going into all of those records, Ghetto, it's all pain. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Okay. And when you perform it, do you go back to that moment? Do you put yourself in that same place?

[Akon]

No, not actually in that place, but it actually reminds me how far I come. Like, what's crazy is my first show in Dublin on this tour, I literally started. I was. I had my glasses on. The audience ain't seeing. But when I sang Ghetto, I was literally crying behind my glasses. Cause it was just surreal for me, like. Cause I was like, damn. I'm like, damn. Like, you think 20 years later I'm here not only singing this song, but I got all these white folks feeling my pain, hearing it, understanding it from a perspective in which they came from. That I may not even understand. But it's still the same vibe of what we go through as a people to struggle through certain things to get there.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You know what I mean? So it was just wild because I remember when I wrote the song, I didn't know where my life was heading. I didn't know which direction I was going. I just wanted to be rich. I didn't know how and I didn't care. It was like.

[Host]

That was the focus.

[Akon]

That was the focus. Get Rich or die trying. Literally. You know what I'm saying? It was like, man. So I knew what it was. I felt. I understood, man. It seemed like everything hit me at that. Like, hit me. And it happens a lot of time when I perform records. Like Freedom.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Or Ghetto or Mama Africa. Like really records that's cultured, you know, I choke up literally on stage, but I play it off like, ain't nothing going on.

[Host]

See, I didn't realize that you cried on stage or that you always. That you do cry on stage. You feel the old.

[Akon]

Oh, yeah. Some songs, some songs, I be dead Crying, but I'd be sweating so hard, you don't know if it's a tear or if it's a.

[Host]

You just see fluid.

[Akon]

You just see you, like, man, that boy's sweating. But, yeah, it happens a lot.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Yeah, it happens a lot.

[Host]

All right, so then sharing the stage with Neo, you talked about how you two. You knew you had to be on tour together.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

But how special is it to you to share the stage with me?

[Akon]

Nah, it's amazing because we kind of realize just how different our paths are. Like, a lot of times you actually think that you're. Everybody share the same pain. And the paths are very similar. And when I say path, I mean musically.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

Okay. So Neo has a different set list than mine. Mine is, you know, stems from, like, reality. His is almost like there's reality added, but it's more like love and romance. Mine is like reality, pain, struggle. So it's like two opposites worlds. But then when we get to the overcoming of what our lives are, you can hear the difference in the music, because the music gets more uptempo, it gets more dance driven, it gets more celebratory.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You know what I'm saying?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

He starts off making love, I start off talking about pain. You know what I'm saying? You know, he ends up partying and I end up fiesting. You know what I mean? So it's like. But they both. You could tell. Like, they. It feels like life. And you can. Like, both sides can feel. The fellas understand, the women understand, the elders understand, the kids are enjoying. So it's like, it's literally from 7 to 70, that demo. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah. It's not only 7 to 70, but you were talking about in Dublin. You saw, you know, a mostly white audience.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

It spans race, ethnicity.

[Akon]

You probably see my shows, which is crazy. The only time I actually see black people in my audience is when I'm in Africa.

[Host]

Are you serious? Not even in the States?

[Akon]

In the States, Atlanta is salt and pepper, dc. It don't matter where I go, really, whether I'm in America, Europe, like, even in the Middle east, it's. It's just like it's all Caucasians. If I do see a few Africans in the building, they make sure I see them because they had the flags up. And I can't miss them because there's a number of white people there, you know? You know what? You know, that does shock me. Yeah.

[Host]

You know, because I was. I was talking to my wife about you coming in And I was saying, you know, I think that, like, we were debating what has made you so iconic. Right, right. And I think a lot of people point to your voice. They talk about the moment you hear.

[Akon]

Like, you know, that's own. That's definitely God, gal.

[Host]

You know what I'm saying? A lot of people talk, I think, about your ability to create hooks. Like, I think you're one of the most masterful people ever.

[Akon]

No, they don't.

[Host]

In terms of a hook. But I also think what you've done that not a lot of people talk about is you've been able to take pain. You've been able to take a story that traditionally is centered in black culture and make it accessible to everybody.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

And that, to me, I think, is your special story.

[Akon]

No, it is, because that's always been my focus. I was like, okay, how can I tell this story in a way to where every nationality, no matter where you're from, you can understand it? Because one thing I do know is that we're all going through something, right? We're all going through the same thing, just in different directions, or is being translated differently or culturally. It feels like you're going through something different, but this is the exact same thing.

[Host]

Right?

[Akon]

You understand what I'm saying?

[Host]

Right?

[Akon]

Like, it's no different, no matter how you see it, because the pain, you're going to feel it regardless of how it's translated to you. That's the one thing that we all have in common. We know how that feels.

[Host]

Yes, yes. But then. But though to not have, say, more black representation in your audience, how does it feel? And let me even throw this out, is so. I don't know if you heard of Neville Garrick.

[Akon]

That name sounds really familiar.

[Host]

He was Bob Marley's creative director. And so Neville is someone I was able to meet. He passed away, unfortunately, a few years ago of cancer.

[Akon]

Right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

He was living in Dr. Yeah. Yeah, man. I hung out with him.

[Host]

Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah.

[Akon]

I know exactly who you're talking about.

[Host]

So Neville, he changed my life.

[Akon]

I'm bad with names, by the way, but faces I'll never forget. But when you said that, I knew exactly who you. We spent like, two weeks together.

[Host]

Incredible.

[Akon]

No? Unbelievable.

[Host]

Unbelievable, right? And I remember talking to him about. He would tell me about Bob Marley shows, right?

[Akon]

And he said, same thing, same thing, same thing.

[Host]

And I said, well, how do you feel? Like, how did Bob feel about that? He said he felt like Bob felt a certain way about it. So how do you. Because he wanted to See more of, you know, his community represented at his shows.

[Akon]

Right, right, right, right.

[Host]

So how do you feel not having more black representation at your show?

[Akon]

Oh, I felt like I made it. Like, nigga, you made.

[Host]

All right, tell me how you really feel then.

[Akon]

No, that's how I really feel. Cause you gotta think black people don't wanna hear the same story that they're actually going through right now. Like, they're actually living the story I'm telling.

[Host]

Right?

[Akon]

So it's a difference. So me the more of a group of people or a group of a culture that I felt haven't experienced what we're experiencing is what I want to see out there. Cause I need that story to be told. I need them to understand the position that we hold. The reason why it's so much trauma, the reason why so much anger, the reason why so much divide. Like, we, as black people, we have a certain level of. Like, our characteristics and mindset is flawed to other cultures, and they don't understand why we understand it. So it's not flawed to us. But when you compare it to other cultures mindset, it's completely flawed. Because they understand, okay, why they can't come together and do anything. Why every time a group of them come together, something has to go on? Or why is it that when we do something, it's a discrimination when they're not added or they're not involved or not mentioned? Because our whole life we've been. You can say left out. Okay, if you can use that word. I don't know if that's the right analogy, but we just believe that we contribute so much that we don't get credit for. We contribute so much that we're not invited when the celebration happens. Like, we've invented countless amount of technology. We've contributed to countless amount of culture, sports, fashion, storytelling, like, you name it, history, right? But we, as a people, we've never took the time because of the mindset of how history of pattern just continued moving forward that we never had a chance to fix, to come together, to maximize on it. We're so busy, like, still dwelling on the pain, not celebrating it, but complaining about it. Versus, okay, how do we fix it? Okay, how do we bring it together and actually maximize it to where we're all benefiting from it.

[Host]

Well, all right, so I didn't know we would get into this topic.

[Akon]

Right?

[Host]

But we got it. I mean, we're here.

[Akon]

We're here.

[Host]

So let's.

[Akon]

It's a conversation.

[Host]

Yeah, let's. We need to talk.

[Akon]

Right where to pick a side at.

[Host]

We need to bring him in. Just hold the sign up. All right, so my question on this is, I hear you in terms of mindset for some, but the way I always look at it is I look at it as systems, especially systems in the west versus systems in, say, Africa, especially sub Saharan Africa. So do you think. And we don't have to go too deep in it, but I'm just curious is how much of it you think is mindset versus system versus system?

[Akon]

It's our mindset because the mindset is what creates the system.

[Host]

Okay?

[Akon]

Right. So if you come with a flawed mindset, your system's gonna be flawed. If you come with a struggling mindset, your system's gonna struggle. You know, if you come with a weak mindset, your system is gonna be weak. So ultimately, because our mindset hasn't been mature enough to understand that unity is the power and is the strength and the muscle that we need to create a successful system, until we come together, that system will never exist.

[Host]

Okay?

[Akon]

Right. Cause think about it. In order for a system to work, there's so many different departments, but all them departments have to see eye to eye. They all have to connect, they all have to unite for it to be a strong system. Yes, but you got your system, I got my system, my homie got his system, my sister got his system. You know, Uncle Doug got his system, Cuzzo got his system. But none of them systems are talking to each other.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

They're all competing with each other. And because of the mindset of it, and ultimately because of how the systems were created against us, and we became a part of that system, not understanding it, to create our own, we said no. How do I benefit and maximize the system that I'm in? Because I can't change the system.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Because we've been taught that we can't change the system when we really can.

[Host]

Yes. Is this why you. I feel like there's a 10 year period where you stepped outside of the States. You went to West Africa a hundred percent. That's why you went.

[Akon]

Okay, 1000%. Because Africa had this black market system of music. We got all this talent, but nobody knows about it but the locals. Like, at what point are we going to inject ourselves into a system that allows our music to be spread globally? Right. I love using Nigeria as a perfect example, because Nigeria had unlimited talent, unlimited population.

[Host]

Yes, yes.

[Akon]

And unlimited. Like, man, the Nigerians are the smartest people on the planet.

[Host]

I mean, next to the Jamaicans.

[Akon]

No. I mean, y' All Jamaicans.

[Host]

No, no, no. But no, no.

[Akon]

Yeah, yeah. If you trace any Jamaican, Nigeria, it's going back to Nigeria.

[Host]

It's the same thing.

[Akon]

Their DNA goes right back to Nigeria. I don't know no African ain't got a Nigerian DNA somewhere. Lacked, you know, like. But just the way they. Man, they're so brilliant mentally. But it's because there's so much of competition within that system itself. No one took the time to say, okay, well, let me create an opportunity for who you may even deem your competitor to open the door for them, because they may open the door for you.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

Like, I was in a position where I wasn't looking to compete with my brothers and sisters. I needed them to be where I was at because I'm tired of being there by myself. And I know that there's people out there that sings and run circles around me. They exist in Africa. My tone is just the one you heard, but there's more like me.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

And that was my goal. My goal was to make sure that everybody understood that I'm just one of almost 2 billion Africans that actually have some kind of talent that could be showcased to the rest of the world. So whatever opportunity, whatever platform, I had to actually open the door for the rest of my brothers and sisters to get noticed. I. I gave it.

[Host]

Yeah. You know, I mean. And you did. I think that. I mean, in terms of record sales, global impact, I mean, Wizkid has to be top 1%. Oh, 100% in that.

[Akon]

And as a kid, he was that. He was crazy.

[Host]

He was a kid. How old was he when you met him?

[Akon]

I would want to say that Wiz was, like, 14, maybe 15.

[Host]

Wow. Okay. So he was a kid.

[Akon]

No, he was a kid.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Like, that's why they called him Wizkid. He was a wizard. Literally, at that age. Like, he was writing for other artists, including Banky W. Okay. You know, the kid was a. He's brilliant.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. And so you. Do you. I mean, are you. I mean, with. Humbly.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

Do you believe that you were one of the key players to unlocking Afrobeats to the world?

[Akon]

I think everybody plays their role. Right. I think oftentimes when a question like that is asked, it's really only the people can answer that for you. You know, I know I played a huge contribution as to helping to showcase African talent.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

You know, whether it's Afrobeat or I'm a piano or Afro House, like these. Anything that's culturally Like, I think has value. I want to be able to maximize it, too. Because I'm a businessman at the end of the day. Right? So it don't just help me. It helps everybody involved. Right? So I think when we have a specific ideal of how much or whether you're the one to be crowned the goat or the reason for something to happen, I just believe that God gave all of us roles, and I just try to play mine. I don't count nobody's money. I don't do anything, expecting anything back in return. Every African artist that you mentioned, none of them can tell you that I've ever enforced a contract, came after them for any money, or even presented them with a deal.

[Host]

Okay. Not even Wizkid.

[Akon]

Wiz. The only reason why me and Wiz had a contract was because it was with Banky W. And Banky had him. Okay. But me and Wiz directly, we never had a contract. It was with Banky's company that was signing Wiz, and we wanted to empower Banky's company.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

And Wiz was a part of that. Cause we was like, okay, you could be the first joint venture that we do in Nigeria, and all the artists under your label can utilize this platform to push out. And that's how Wiz was able to be able to get that opportunity.

[Host]

Okay, all right. Fair, Fair. So because on this point, because you. I mean, not only are you a musician, artist, but also a manager. Right, right.

[Akon]

Of.

[Host]

Of talent and then a collaborator of talent. But you just said something that I found really interesting. You said, I'm a businessman. Right, Right. So I've interviewed lots of. I say exceptional musicians, and not all musicians qualify themselves as a business person.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

But the one thing that I was doing in my research that I said, I was like, nah, Akon is a businessman. Is when I saw or when you realized how much money you were making on ringtones.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

To me, that was fascinating. Could you talk about how that influenced your music?

[Akon]

Well, I would probably say that kind of gave me an understanding of where music was going, business wise.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

I already saw it going digital. Like, I. That's why I always retained my digital rights, because I saw then, okay, technology's changing, and music is a part of that change. Right. We were selling singles at the time for $1.99 for songs that was like, at length, four minutes, some five, even seven minutes at that time. It was no timeline for how long a song was today. Two minutes max. Right. And those was like $1.99. But then ringtones came up, and those were 5.99 for 15 seconds. If that. That was the longest a song was. Was 599. I said, well, hold up. Something adding up, or maybe it needs to add up.15 seconds for 4.99, which is 5 bucks or 199 for four or five minutes. It just made complete business sense to me. I said, I need to be focusing on ringtones. Every song that I make has to be ringtone friendly. Well, I'm not releasing it. Cause I'm gonna utilize not only the ringstones to promote myself. Cause every time the song rings, guess what? Somebody's hearing the song. Oh, what song is that? And they go buy it.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

So you got walking billboards all over the globe with your ringer on their phones every time it rings. And that could happen five, ten, maybe 50 times a day.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Akon]

You know what I'm saying? So I don't need radio no more. I got ringtones. And then on top of radio.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Oh, forget about it.

[Host]

So when you're writing music, right, you're thinking.

[Akon]

I'm thinking completely ringtone ringtones. Yep. I'm thinking ringtone. Okay. Which part of this are we gonna push out for the actual song? So I always thought about the chorus. So when I wrote the chorus, I said, okay, this chorus has to be able to work on a ringtone.

[Host]

Okay. That's incredible.

[Akon]

Yeah, that's incredible.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, I could see that. Like, I didn't realize how much. How many albums you've sold. Not even till doing this research. Everything. It seemed like after with the drop of your first album, everything just went platinum.

[Akon]

Like, yeah, man, I was blessed, to be honest. You know, I think it was. But believe it or not, the Africans was the ones that supported the most. Like, especially the first album. You couldn't walk through Harlem without hearing Akon. Senegalese was up there. You know what I'm saying? And then from there, it went to the West Indians, because I was doing a lot of dub pleats. So between the Africans and the West Indians, it became like they became like my mouthpiece, like my promotional tools. Like they. They. Their word of mouth is really what got me even noticed, to be honest.

[Host]

Okay, but. And then from there, there was the crossover.

[Akon]

Then it crossed over. When I got to Mr. Lonely, everything changed.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Like, overnight.

[Host]

Overnight.

[Akon]

That's what it felt like, at least.

[Host]

And how did it change for you?

[Akon]

Well, for me, I started noticing that I was traveling internationally. Cause before then, I was performing locked up. I troubled nobody ghetto domestically. And then I was getting a lot of dates in Africa. Those records was huge over there. Then I had a mixtape called the Illegal Alien, where I had Senegal, and I had all the hottest beats at the time. And I took those and freestyle over them. So the mixtape was just as popular as the album and the singles. So with that, I was all over Africa. We was everywhere in Africa. And then when we dropped Mr. Lonely, then I was like, okay, this is different. Cause now I'm on. I'm getting called on pop stages. But what was crazy was the pop audience knew the urban records.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

They knew the locked up records. They knew the ghettos. They knew. I was like, ooh, this is different. Then we would go to places in Europe, like Germany, you know, Netherlands. You go to places like Germany where nobody spoke English, but they sing the song from top to bottom. That's when things got really interesting. I wouldn't say weird, but it's funny because I would think that after I got off stage, I could have a regular English conversation with you and they couldn't understand nothing. I'm like, but how are you singing my songs from top to bottom? And we can't speak English together?

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

So that weirded me out for a minute. I was like, wow, this is different. That's when I realized, okay, God is special, right?

[Host]

And you're blessed. Yeah, and you're blessed 100%. When you think about your career, what was the moment where you just looked at it and said, this is surreal. I can't believe I'm doing this?

[Akon]

I would probably say when the first time it actually happened, where I actually had that moment, because I kind of experienced expected it in certain places, like home in Senegal, I expected it, but it was mania. Almost like Michael Jackson status. That's when I almost caught it. But I was like, well, I'm in Senegal. They're supposed to support me this way.

[Host]

It's like, you know, and when you say almost Michael Jackson status, you're talking about.

[Akon]

No. Like, I couldn't go out. I couldn't go nowhere. Like, literally, I couldn't walk down the street. I couldn't go to the local store. It would always be thousands of people waiting outside.

[Host]

Thousands.

[Akon]

Like, thousands. But when I went to Zimbabwe, it was like, wait a minute. Like, from the airport. We couldn't leave the airport.

[Host]

Wow.

[Akon]

Like, we couldn't literally leave the airport. Like, we couldn't leave the airport. Like, the people would not leave until I showed my space. So they had a sunroof up there, and I popped my head out the Sunroof. I felt like I was in three stadiums in one. It was so many people for as long as you can see people. And I literally had to ride all the way to the airport on the roof. Cause that was the only way I had to be there. You know, I just tell people, like,

[Host]

to tell people, move out.

[Akon]

It was like a sea of people. It was unbelievable.

[Host]

I mean, how does it feel to have that response to music that you create?

[Akon]

That was another thing that was surreal. Like, you, like, damn, like, my music is affecting this many people like this. That's when I realized, okay, I got a major purpose. Like, it's those moments that make you realize that, okay, everyone in life has a purpose. And your purpose is always going to be intangible with your gift. Whatever your gift is that God gave you, that's what's going to be what's going to take you or walk you through the trail that you need to walk through to get to your purpose.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

That's when I realized, okay, music is just a vehicle for me to do what I need to do. And I'm almost positive that Africa is where I need to be doing it.

[Host]

Interesting. So, yeah, what did you believe you needed to do if it wasn't the music? The music was the.

[Akon]

At the time, I didn't know. I just knew I need to be in Africa doing something. Cause the support here is overwhelming. There's gotta be something I'm supposed to be doing. And I don't think it's just get rich. It ain't about money no more. Right. You know what I mean? Like, God pushed you through those stages where, okay, you want money? Okay, here's the money. All right, you want popularity? Here's popularity. Okay? Now it's like, okay, you got the popularity, you got the money, you got the respect. Okay, what are you supposed to do with that? You don't just brag about it. Like, I know it's something more, right? You gotta know it's something more. Like, you can't think that the blessings is just here for you to walk around and just say, I got. I got, I got. Like, to me, it just didn't make sense. And then that's when we got into, you know, the charitable stuff. When I started Confidence foundation, we started rebuilding schools and remodeling, giving computers and stuff like that. But it felt like it's still something that needed to be bigger. And as it seemed like the more I got into those things, more things were introduced. And that's when we got into the electricity Because I started going through those rural areas, realizing there was not even no lights. And how I even got there, I was in Sierra Leone doing a concert.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

This is how crazy, you know, music walks you through your purpose, right? We got the huge stadium, Sierra Leone. Been waiting for this concert for I don't know how long. You know, we finally get there, the place is so packed that outside the stadium, there's another 14, 15,000 people that couldn't get in. And I was like, those people can't get in. Why say, well, they can't afford the tickets. I said, okay, so all the tickets are sold out. Okay. We still have place. Because they did. They sold out all the seats.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

But the field still had space. But the stage was in the center of the field. Me being who I am, I need everybody that couldn't afford the tickets, put them on the field.

[Host]

Wow.

[Akon]

So now the field is flooded with people. The seats is flooded with people. Everybody's happy. We start rocking. Boom. Get into the third song, which is ghetto, right? As we say in ghetto, lights go out.

[Host]

That's a sign. That's a sign.

[Akon]

That was a sign. But what was crazy was the lights never came back on.

[Host]

Oh, man. No generator.

[Akon]

No generator. It was the stadium electricity. Well, the country, it all went out to the point where everybody got rowdy. Da, da, da, da. We ended up having to redo the show. But when I realized, okay, what happened? Like, what happened? He said, well, you know, the power went out. It happens like this all the time. Like every night, it happens at a certain time. We don't know when, but we know it's gonna happen.

[Host]

Is that the. What is it? The power load, the sharing?

[Akon]

Yeah, it's something like that. It was something. But them, they just didn't have enough. They just didn't have enough. So ultimately I was like, okay, we gotta figure this out. Cause I don't want to be going to other countries and we having the same problem. That's when I started getting interested in energy. I said, I gotta figure how we can fix the energy problem in Africa starting in Sierra Leone.

[Host]

So that was it.

[Akon]

Yeah. And that's what opened the door. Yeah.

[Host]

Look at that. Look at that. Yeah. You could see where music has guided you.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

So what do you believe your purpose is today?

[Akon]

To develop Africa? 100%. I know for sure that's what it is.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Yeah. Because anything that I've ever done that went towards the development of Africa, I never got no pushback. Like, everything went smooth sailing. Like, I'll find the Right. Partners, right investors. Everything is rolling. And then when I realized, okay, development is coming on an abundance on a level that Africa will never need anybody again, then you start getting. You start seeing. Okay.

[Host]

Yep.

[Akon]

Now I understand. This is definitely my role. Somebody gotta play it.

[Host]

Yes. So you're willing to step up 100% to that resistance?

[Holly]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Cause if I don't, I don't think nobody else will.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Holly]

Hello, my name is Holly, and I'm asking a certain someone, my friend, my dear friend, who knows who they are, to pick up the phone so that we can connect.

[Akon]

Welcome to ID Mobile. Please leave your message after the tone.

[Holly]

I always feel refreshed once we've had a conversation. It's almost like we go back in time to how we used to be. We reminisce, we talk about the fun days. I can't really tell how you are through text. And your laugh. I can't hear your laugh over messages. And then when we do get together every two or three months, it's like a huge mammoth catch up of everything. And I feel like maybe some calls between those meetups would just help us. Even if it's 15, 20 minutes just to, like, touch base with each other. I would really like that.

[Host]

This may shock you. One of my best friends that I've had for the last eight years, I believe I've only picked up his phone call about four or five times in the eight years.

[Akon]

Wow.

[Holly]

Why?

[Host]

I hate to say this, but it's efficiency for me, so why is that bad? Help me understand that.

[Holly]

I think we're choosing convenience over connection. If somebody rung me and said, hey, Holly, I'm just calling you to see how you are, I'd be like, oh, wow.

[Guest Artist]

Really?

[Holly]

Yeah. It makes you feel wanted and appreciated. Yeah. And important to somebody.

[Host]

Yeah. And I do believe if I called my best friend, he would truly feel like I thought he was important to me.

[Holly]

Yeah.

[Host]

We're in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health uk. We want you to ditch the text. My conversation here with Holly, I've realized that I am not making my friends feel important. And when you make it a call, your friends feel your importance. I have to show you this. All right, tell me what's happening in this photo and who are you with.

[Akon]

Bro, this is my. This is my most proudest photo. Bro.

[Host]

Is it this photo? Yes.

[Akon]

Now, mind you, I'm a full blown celebrity. Yes. At this point,

[Host]

you're big. What? But you're not that big in that.

[Akon]

Man, man, listen, I'm a child compared to this man.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

I was so happy. I couldn't. Man listen. Cause I grew up my whole life looking up to Mike. Mike, you know, he's like everybody's idol. Nobody can tell me that Mike didn't have some kind of impact in your life. I don't care who you are.

[Host]

He was my favorite growing up.

[Akon]

Oh my goodness.

[Host]

Yeah, it was like growing up in New York, it was Prince versus Michael.

[Akon]

Right?

[Host]

I love Prince.

[Akon]

Me, I never liked Prince. Don't say it. No, no, not like that. But I'm just saying if I had to choose one, yo, Mike is my boy. Yeah, it was so it was always that rivalry. Like I would feel guilty listening to Prince, even though I loved his music, especially the Purple Rain album. Like I love that album, but I could only play it once a month. Cause the rest of the day's gotta go to Mike.

[Host]

Yes, yes.

[Akon]

I was a die hard Mike fan. As much as I loved Princess, I couldn't support him openly because I rock with Mike.

[Host]

Yes. So with Michael, I mean Michael Jackson, the way that I hear the story is that he wanted to work with you.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, so that must be one of the top crowning moments for sure. Yeah.

[Akon]

Without a question. Because like when I was locked up, I had this 10 year plan.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

I said, okay, this is what I want to be able to accomplish within now, in the next 10 years. From the moment I get out, I'm starting the ground, hitting it running, starting over here. Mike was at the top of the list on the things that I would want to achieve. And normally at the top of your list, it's always the things that you may deem impossible. But you say, you know what, if I don't try, I won't ever go. But if I can reach half that, I'm successful.

[Host]

Right. So you're saying you had Michael Jackson almost like on the vision board?

[Akon]

On the vision board, like my goal is to work with Mike.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Before all this is over, I need to work with Mike. Once I work with him, then I know I made happened in five years. It didn't even take 10. So I was already like blown away at that point. It was unbelievable.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you work with him now I have to ask. Right. Because I'm fresh off of seeing Michael in the theater. Right. And first is, what was it like working with Mike? What was your biggest surprise working with him?

[Akon]

First of all, it was a surreal, unbelievable moment. Electrifying the work with Mike in the studio. My biggest surprise though, working with him was how easy it was to work with him. Working with him made me understand why he's as big as he is. Because he had no ego. Literally no ego. He would do any and everything or even tried. If I asked him to do it, he didn't care. He was like, listen, I called you in there because I believe in what you do, and I need that to rub off on what I'm doing. I need to do something that I wouldn't think of doing. If I would have asked Mark to bark on the record, he would have did it just because I asked him to do it. And he would also want to see what it sounded like. He's not even like, nah, man, I ain't no dog. I ain't barking on that bark on that record. He wouldn't have did that. He would have been like, roof, roof. How'd that sound? What'd you think? Like, he gives you 100% trust when he hires you to do something. He like, it's your ship. You tell me. You know, whatever you need me to do, I'm doing it. That's how much trust he has in it. And not too many artists have that in either a producer, a songwriter, or someone that curates their sound or someone that's already known for a specific sound. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was like, to see that, I was like, wow. I remember working with artists that went wood in the hood, like, ain't had ain't so no records. And you think you working with someone like a Mike because of how they moving. And I'm like, but Mike, it was like he had so much passion for the art. He never questioned it. Like, he already knew that the combination of us was gonna be like. He didn't have to think about it.

[Host]

So he just trusted it.

[Akon]

Yeah, he just trusted the process.

[Host]

And then after you two would create, would he then give opinion or he just trusted you in.

[Akon]

No, that's exactly. He would just trust.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

He would just trust and me, because I trust the same way. I'd be like, mike, well, just do whatever you feel. We gonna keep what's good, we gonna keep what's not. I mean, he's Michael Jackson.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Everything ain't always good, though. That's another thing that would surprise me. Some things wasn't as good as I. I'm like, damn, it's Mike. But I realized, even with me, everything ain't always. It's records you ain't never gonna hear, ever gonna hear.

[Host]

Right. Right.

[Akon]

You know what I'm saying? The stuff that I really, really believe in boom. Like, there was times where I thought Mike couldn't hit a bad note, you know, But I realized Mike was human. Like, we all was.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

But he was a perfectionist, though. He wasn't letting it go unless it was perfect. That's for sure.

[Host]

Okay. I mean, and I have to ask not to be on the controversial side, but just the more and more people that I talk to in the industry.

[Akon]

Right, right.

[Host]

I read once that you said he was the healthiest person that you knew.

[Akon]

Yeah, he's. From what I've known of him, he's super, super healthy.

[Host]

Super, super healthy.

[Akon]

Very good. Ate like he had a schedule for his food. Like, he was just very organized.

[Host]

How do you truly. How do you believe he died?

[Akon]

I just believe that. I mean, what I believe is what I believe. I just don't feel like. I just feel like there's a lot of holes. Like, it's not a solid canvas on the explanation of his death. I just honestly believe that there should be a lot more investigating, need to be done without a question.

[Host]

So do you fear that? Right. And the reason why I bring this up is truly not a conspiracy theorist, but because I now understand more about power and the threat that comes.

[Akon]

That comes with it. Right?

[Host]

That comes with it. So do you fear that as your power and influence grows, especially with projects in Africa, do you ever have the fear of a threat against your life?

[Akon]

Not really. Like, that's the one thing I've never been afraid of is dying. Because I just feel like God's disciples are meant to come back. Like God. Death is promise. The question is, once you die, how will you be remembered? What have you accomplished before then? Or was your purpose fulfilled before you died?

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Like, death was never an issue for me. Like, even that's why I was probably so successful in the street, because I didn't. I always feel like God was protecting me at every moment. Like, so even with stuff like this. That's why I said I welcomed it. Like, because I know it's coming, and I know that what I'm doing is something that was worth doing. That's why I'm getting the resistance.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You know what I'm saying?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

But death can't be. If you're a man of faith, death can't ever be something that you fear, because then you really have to question your own faith and question yourself.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

The moment you're afraid to die, now you have to ask yourself, like, why? Like, you're supposed to be welcoming that, to be honest. Like, if your faith is as true as if you say it is.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

And has your faith always been that level of strength?

[Akon]

When I was younger, no.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

I was scared. Cause I didn't know what to face. I didn't know what I was going to face. Like, okay, what happens when you die? You ask all them questions. Like, you go to hell, you go to heaven.

[Host]

Yeah. What does it look like?

[Akon]

Is it over? Is it black? Is it dark?

[Host]

Yep.

[Akon]

Do you go? Are you reincarcinated into a tree? A cup? You don't know. Like, it's all these questions. But then when you realize some things ain't meant to be explained, and there's some things that our mind capacity will never be able to understand. You know what I mean? Like, that's just a part of the faith. The same way we've never met God, but we know he exists.

[Host]

Okay, okay.

[Akon]

Or whatever higher being it is that you worship.

[Host]

You worship. All right, can we unpack that piece?

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

Because in looking at interviews and research around you, the one part that I have a question mark on, like, a curious piece on, is how you grew up.

[Akon]

Oh, man.

[Host]

And the circumstances. Because even to hear you talk about Senegal and you talked about how you lived with different religion and how there wasn't conflict. I think a lot of people think Africa, conflict, conflict. I'm with you.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

Senegal was one of the few places where there was no significant conflict. Right. And I think that that does shape.

[Akon]

No, it does. It shapes. Yeah.

[Host]

So when you go back, you were born, though, in the States, in St. Louis. Yeah. Okay. Born in St. Louis. What do you remember about? So when you think, earliest memory of childhood, what was that like for you?

[Akon]

Well, it was my earliest memories. I kind of wanted to go back to Senegal.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Because. Okay, so when we were born, my dad was a forward thinker. Like, I think I got that from him. Always trying to vision the future. Every time one of us was born, he would fly my mom to the States. She would have us, and he would send us back to Africa. So we all came to the States to be born for our U.S. citizenship, and he would send us back. You know, we went to school there until we were old enough to come to the States to finish school. So all of us came, like, around 7 or 8 between all of my brothers. And then our earlier years, we were in Senegal. That's why we all still speak well of. You know, we all accustomed to our native tongue and everything else, culture and everything. Okay, so.

[Host]

And even on that Is. And so how many? Because is it 19 of y'?

[Akon]

All? Yeah, my dad. Yeah, my dad is. Yeah, he's 18. Literally. Literally, yeah.

[Host]

So you had 19 siblings or 18 siblings in green?

[Akon]

It's something like that.

[Host]

Okay. So you don't even know the number?

[Akon]

I don't. It don't even matter no more. Like, really, I swear, though.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Cause my dad, like, my pops is like about 89 now.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

And I got a nine year old brother, so he had a child at 80.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Which. That means the genes are that strong. I don't have to worry about it. I know at 80, I'm gonna still be pumping out babies.

[Host]

Okay. But are you, though?

[Akon]

I don't know. We'll see. You know, If I reach 80, God, you know, willing.

[Host]

All right, so then born for the US Citizenship in the States.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

But then you go back. So growing up in Senegal, how did that. How do you think that shaped.

[Akon]

No, that shaped me, period. Like, I think those earlier years gave me, like, you know how they say you want to teach the child as much as you possibly can when they're at that sponge years? And that was the one thing that I. If my pop did nothing else right in his life, he did that right. Cause he made sure. While we were young, we learned multiple languages, we learned our culture, we knew where we came from. And that mindset that came from the idea of treating everybody the same, no matter what your faith was, and just understanding life from a family perspective, that came with me because all my friends, I couldn't understand when I got to the US how none of them had their fathers around. Like, where's your dad, though, bro? You know? Or where's your big brother, you know? Or where's your mom, for that matter. You had single fathers raising kids. There was a lot of single parent way of life in America. And I couldn't understand, like, how this was possible or how my friends would be spending weeks at a time in my house, and his parents don't call a check on them, where they at. So I understood that there was a huge displacement in family values in America, and I came with that. So I invited everybody. Like, even now, like, my brother Babs would tell me, yo, bro, you're too nice. Like, you give everybody a chance. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

But I don't know how to not give them. Like, I'm the kind of person that give you 100% trust from the moment we meet until you pull those layers off. And I don't trust you no more.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

But I'm not gonna meet you. Not trusting you.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

It's the other way around.

[Host]

I'm with you. So then you were in the States because your father was a musician, so he's traveling. And so where were you? Was it Newark that you sold most of the time?

[Akon]

Yeah. When I got to New Jersey, I was Jersey City.

[Host]

Oh, Jersey City.

[Akon]

It was Jersey City, but I used to work in Newark.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

So I was back and forth between Jersey City and Newark, which was, like, the two craziest sides. You from Queens? You already know.

[Host]

I have to tell you, I'm not gonna say it. You say it, you get in trouble. I'm not gonna say it.

[Akon]

You go ahead. Dirty Jersey.

[Host]

But on the real, for all of us that know is it's a rough spot.

[Akon]

Yeah, it's a rough, rough spot. But I think what helped me in Jersey was the fact that when I was in St. Louis, I lived in East St. Louis.

[Host]

Okay. Yeah.

[Akon]

So East St. Louis is equivalent to what. I think East St. Louis is probably the reason why Chicago is what it is today. Cause at that time in that area, it was so bad that the police went on strike for 30 days. Now, I don't know an area that could be that bad where the cops go, strike. It was just. It was unbelievable. But when I got to Jersey, it wasn't as bad from how everyone seen it to be, because I already came from a culture in Africa where I already experienced extreme poverty from a level of living out in the rural areas. Drinking well water and electricity was literally candles and kerosene lamps. We didn't have the luxury that I got in the States. So everything in the States to me was luxury.

[Host]

Interesting.

[Akon]

You know what I'm saying?

[Host]

That's interesting.

[Akon]

It was different. Like, while they're complaining about it, I'm like, man, this is what. This is it. We got lights on, man, we got switches. Clean water on the faucet. Like, y' all tripping.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

You know, so it was definitely different.

[Host]

And so in the States, were you. Cause at a certain point, you. It was just. What, you and your brother?

[Akon]

Yeah, just me and my brother Muhammad. Yeah, my older brother.

[Host]

So this is in Jersey, in Jersey City.

[Akon]

So we had a three. Three. We had a three story house in Jersey City on Kennedy Boulevard. And my dad had an opportunity to go to Atlanta. Clark Atlanta, on a cultural exchange program as a professor there. So he's like, listen, Mo, you only got one year left. Ali, which is me. You got two years left. You decide if y' all want to Stay, you know, because Mo is responsible. So your brother's gonna stay, then you guys can stay at the next year you graduate, you can come meet me in Atlanta.

[Host]

This is in high school.

[Akon]

This was in high school.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

So me and my older brother Muhammad stayed at the house while my mom and my pop went off to Atlanta with my other brothers.

[Host]

Wow. So you were how old? Like 16.

[Akon]

Then I was in high school.

[Host]

15. 16.

[Akon]

No, I was older than that because when I came from Africa, I didn't speak no English. I didn't graduate high school till I was like, 20. 20. 20. 21. Really? Yeah.

[Host]

Okay. Yeah. That's older.

[Akon]

So I was older. Yeah.

[Host]

That's interesting.

[Akon]

Yeah. So a lot of people was like, how your parents gonna leave you out, man? I was actually.

[Host]

You were a man.

[Akon]

I was grown, but I was still in high school, though. You know what I mean? Wow.

[Host]

I didn't realize that. So you were an older high school student?

[Akon]

I was an older high school school.

[Host]

And it was because you didn't speak English.

[Akon]

Because I had to learn how to speak English.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay. So that makes sense. They leave, but you're still 20.

[Akon]

Yeah. Practically chilling, you know?

[Host]

But you then grow up with your brother.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

And you're in Newark. Yeah.

[Akon]

It was a hustle. Cause now, because we're a little. I wouldn't want to say older, but because Pops gave us that opportunity to be mature, have our own space. We didn't want. Well, at least I didn't want to be calling my dad for no money or calling him to pay the rent. I'm like, yo, he left us here with the house. Like, we should let him know that we got this.

[Host]

Wow.

[Akon]

So that's when I get to hustling. Because I didn't want Pop to even know that we was taking care of the bills. Last thing I wanted to do was call my dad for the electricity or for a phone or a water bill for nothing. I want him to say, okay, my boy's got this. You know what I mean? So it was my pride, really, killing and kicking in. But then that's when I got to hustling. And in Newark at that time, it was like the car theft capital of the world. So stealing cars was, like, the thing. And I used to love cars, so that's what I got into. So I would drive to school in, like, the most high end vehicles.

[Host]

Wow.

[Akon]

And all the girls thought that, you know, I was rich. So I would tell them all I was a prince in Africa. I come to school in a different Car every week they're like, yo, you're a prince.

[Host]

Well, but I mean, hey, it worked.

[Akon]

You know what I'm saying? Hey, you gotta get it how you live.

[Host]

I see it, I see it.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

So it was stealing cars.

[Akon]

Yep.

[Host]

That was really.

[Akon]

Cause I always felt like drug dealing was gotta been the dumbest hustle. Cause it didn't make sense, especially for the risk that came with it. Right. Any moment you get stuck up, get shot and killed, you gotta constantly watch your back. And you get caught with it. I mean, for a brick, you're doing 25 to life. And the profit on it's only 2,500 bucks. 5,000 if you're lucky.

[Host]

Right?

[Akon]

You know what I mean? And you gotta sell it on the bulk to get it. I mean, you said one, you may get close to a five if ain't nobody supplying. But unless you doing some major heavy weight at 2,500 a piece, you ain't seeing no money for the risks that come with it. Doesn't make sense.

[Host]

So how much do you make selling cars?

[Akon]

Cars, man, for every car I got rid of, I'm making like 15, 20 grand.

[Host]

Wow.

[Akon]

And if I got the key to it and I get locked up, that's a joyriding charge. It's a misdemeanor. It goes right off your record. Wow.

[Host]

15 to 20,000.

[Akon]

Think about it. And you get the perks. Driving through in the ride, looking nice, ride nice. Shorty's looking at you. So you get the perks of the beautiful women. On top of that. Ain't no risk. And if I get jacked, man, you can have that. I'm gonna go pick up another one. Another car, you know?

[Host]

Yeah, okay.

[Akon]

It was a different level of thinking at that time.

[Host]

How much did you make, you think?

[Akon]

Stealing cars, man, it was very successful for me because when I left New Jersey and went to Atlanta with my dad, it was a clean slate In Atlanta. They didn't even know. They didn't. They were slow on that hustle. So by the time I set up shop and was in Atlanta, I was making like 200, maybe 250,000 a week. It was UN at that time.

[Host]

By yourself?

[Akon]

Yeah. Yep. To the point where I had to bring in some help, which was. That was the biggest mistake I should have ever made. Cause I should have just kept it by myself. But I was making in so much money that I had to figure out how I'm gonna launder it, like move it around, right? And that's when I thought about it. Cause studios, music, Studios was a. A cash business. So I was like, you know what? Let me build a few music studios. A few, A few. Because I had three recording studios in Atlanta. So that became how I justified how I made my money. So I would let everybody use it just to keep it busy for free. Didn't have to pay, no money.

[Host]

And I think too people need to understand Atlanta. This is what year in Atlanta, I

[Akon]

would say from the moment I got there, like around late 93 to 98. Okay, that was my window.

[Host]

That was your window. All right. So I think paint the picture because I mean, I remember Atlanta during that time. Atlanta.

[Akon]

Freaknik is what got me there.

[Host]

Okay, please. Cause many people will not know because Freaknik is done. It's over.

[Akon]

Yeah, Freaknick is over.

[Host]

But what was it?

[Akon]

Freaknik was probably the. It was the biggest high school. No, no. Biggest college. The biggest college spring weekend festival. I mean, the flyest, the baddest chicks from everywhere in like America. Excuse me. Were flying, driving, and it was like a fest. But it was like a fest with no filters. Girls would be twerking on top of the cars, drinking. I mean, like it was. I mean, you had. I can understand now why they stopped it. Cause literally girls would be butt naked on the hood of the car at a stoplight, just twerking. Freak. That's why they called it Freaknik.

[Host]

Yes. And there was no social media.

[Akon]

It was no social media. Right now if you go back, if you go on YouTube, you may see a few documentaries that was built around Freaknik, but it was all on camcorder shots that people that just happened to have camcorders. But man, when I tell you that experience when I moved out, I went there to visit my pop and never went back to Jersey after Freaknick.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, freak. Atlanta was so. I mean, Freaknik was one thing.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

But Atlanta also.

[Akon]

Oh. And then at that time, it was like Atlanta was a huge population of just successful black people.

[Host]

Yes. It was the same when I visited. I'd never seen it.

[Akon]

Unbelievable. I mean, they got guys that own their own high rises. Everybody riding in beautiful whips.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Beautiful houses out in Alpharetta.

[Host]

First Bentley I ever saw was in Atlanta. But you know who was driving it?

[Akon]

Who? The Bishop, Eddie Long. Oh, oh, yeah. Bishop Eddie Long.

[Host]

He was. I gotta tell you this. No, no, I gotta tell you. We went to Atlanta. It was for a Hawks game. And I saw a Bentley drive around. Right. Just the front of it. Right, right. And then it stopped. Then the driver got out. It wasn't raining. But somebody pulled out an umbrella.

[Akon]

Oh, boy. Bishop used to show out.

[Host]

Open the door.

[Akon]

Oh, my God.

[Host]

Cain comes out. It's Bishop Eddie Long. I was like, okay, I seen it all now.

[Akon]

Nah, Bishop.

[Host]

Bishop Eddie.

[Akon]

New Birth Church. Yeah. For those who don't know, yeah. He was the preacher at New Birth.

[Host]

But I will say this. Shout out to Pastor Jamal Bryant. I know him. I know he's the pastor there now.

[Akon]

Wow. He could probably tell you some stories, huh?

[Host]

Oh, man. But I will say this. Pastor Jamal Bryant was the first person ever to pay me to speak publicly.

[Akon]

Wow.

[Host]

He brought me to his church in Maryland. I'll never forget it.

[Akon]

Unbelievable.

[Host]

I had just written my book, brought me to the church, paid me, and then he ensured that the congregation bought my church, bought my book.

[Akon]

That's amazing.

[Host]

And it changed my life.

[Akon]

Atlanta was so vibrant, man.

[Host]

And then the music. So was that Jermaine Dupri? So, so Def.

[Akon]

So, so Def was founded in Atlanta. Okay. LaFace was the biggest label that came out of that. LaFace is actually what created the opportunity for all of what you see that's coming out of Atlanta today. All of them, starting with outkast, tlc, you know, Usher, Raymond Pink, I mean, you name it, man. It was like they were. They were like Goody Mob like that at that. It was around that time where my studios was jam packed.

[Host]

Yes. And you had all those artists, I would imagine, in there.

[Akon]

There's so many artists that used to use my studios for absolutely free. Wow. So we fast forward four or five years later, I get clipped, and now I'm in jail. Okay. I'm not. This is never. This ain't the life I want to live. That was a turning point when I realized, okay, I know what I need to be doing, and it ain't this.

[Host]

All right, now, how long were you locked up for?

[Akon]

About three years.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

I got out 2001. Then when I got out, the first thing I did was go and start recording all the songs that I wrote when I was in jail.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

And then I realized that We Locked up was the first record that I wanted to release because I felt like that was the moment that I was in at that time. And then Steve Rifkin, who I was signed to over src, kind of was with me. But Universal wanted to release Bonanza. That became the record that they felt like was the record.

[Host]

But you had the deal already when you were locked up, or no, no, you had no deal when you locked up.

[Akon]

I had no deal when I was locked up.

[Host]

Okay. So where does Fugees and Wyclef?

[Akon]

That was all when I was doing Cars. Okay. Yeah. So while I was in Newark doing Cars.

[Host]

Oh, that's right. Cause Fuji's a Jersey.

[Akon]

Yeah. We was right there on Clinton Ave. Like, we had to book a basement. Well, they had to book a basement there, and they welcomed all of us. You know, Gerry Wonder's uncle was the one that actually owned the house.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

And Jerry was a monk, immaculate producer till this day. We, me, him, do a lot of records together. But, you know, we all used to work at the basement. And me, at that time, music wasn't something that I took seriously. Cause I was hustling, I was like, oh, I got it. So. But whenever I was, like, fleeing from the cops or something, I go straight to the studio. They won't know where to find me. Or I finished my day just, you know, going. Clef would always look at me like, man, you up to something, man, what you up to, bro? He would see me cover these different cars. And then one day he sat me down, he said, connor, I don't know what you up to, man, but I'm just telling you, bro, whatever you're doing, it ain't gonna mouth to nothing, man. Figure out what you want. You're a talented writer, you dope producer. Just come rock with us. Just spend time over here with that energy that you got over there. Put that energy over here.

[Host]

Wow.

[Akon]

And of course, I hear it two, three days later, I go out and get my bread. It go through one ear and out the other, so it was that, right? But I would always be at the basement, so they made me family. Every time there was a show, concert, yo, we got a performance over here. We gonna be at Such and Such Park. We got a show in Brooklyn. And I would always come to the show. And every time I come to the show, Clef would always bring me on stage.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Akon]

And let me freestyle.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we got newest member of the refugee camp. You bring me on. I freestyle. And at that time, they knew what it was.

[Host]

I didn't even realize. So you were official?

[Akon]

Yeah, I was official refugee camp member.

[Host]

Wow. Okay.

[Akon]

I just ain't take it as serious, you know? But that's what it took. Cause when I got locked up and I'm watching the television and I see the fugees blowing up, killing me softly, Ready or not, going diamond. And I'm sitting there like, what am I doing here? That was another major motivation for me,

[Host]

too, was to see how well, they

[Akon]

see them drink while I'm in jail. They up there blowing up. And I'm like, man, I could have been over there with these guys, okay? It changes everything.

[Host]

So now I see you're motivated to write, right? And so tell me about the ten year plan, though. Cause I think that's really interesting how you created basically a vision statement.

[Akon]

Yeah, the vision board. Yeah. So when I was in there, you know, I would just write on strength, right? And then I was writing Locked Up. And as I'm writing Locked up, you know, every once in a while, and I just kind of like sing it to myself to make sure I got what I want. And there was this older guy named Boonie who was like my cellma. And he would sit there and be like, young blood, man, what you doing here, man? All this talent, man. If you put all that energy that you had in the streets into your music, man, you'd be. You wouldn't be here, right? You know how big you could be, right? You know how big you could be. And I was like, man, you know what? You right. And then one day, we just happened to be in the pod. We was playing, I think it was what we was playing spades, okay? And then Boonie's like, young blood, sing that song, man. Sing that song for everybody. You sung for me last night, man. Sing that song for me, right? And I'm saying, I'm locked up. They won't let me out, right? So then they was like, oh, that's your heart. That's your heart, right? So now every time a guard would walk past, we would sing the song out together. I'm locked up. They won't let me out, bitch. Won't let me out of lodge. Won't let me out, bitch. That's the original version, right? So then it became an anthem where every pod would sing it every time a guard would walk past.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Akon]

And Boonie was like, see what I'm saying? Look at this, man. He only sang this last week. This is an anthem in here now, bro. I'm telling you, boy. You better focus, man. You better focus. He was an older guy. He's like 67. He's like, see, I'm telling you, man, if you don't do nothing else, if you don't get nothing else from here, just remember I told you, if you focus on that music, boy, that's your freedom. And I thought about it. I was like, you know what? You're right. So I went out, I incorporated my company. I said, yo, Boone, I took Your advice? I started my company, man. What you think? He said, yeah, what you named it? I said, convict music. He said, why the fuck would you do that? Convict music, man. That's the dumbest name I ever heard in my life. Oh my God. I mean, right? I said, nah, but think about it, Boonie, you know, that's what inspired me, man, to do this, man. And this music is starting from here. And I'm telling him what I'm gonna do and I'm showing. So I'm gonna say. He said, all right, we'll put together a business plan and Let me see it. And I put together a whole business plan and I wrote out what I wanted to do in the next 10 years, okay?

[Host]

And what was on. What were some of those moments on the ten year plan?

[Akon]

The first thing I wanted to record these songs, okay? That was the first thing. I gotta get me another studio and record these songs. That's gonna be the first thing I do. Once I get these songs, then I'm gonna go out and get me a record deal, okay? Once I get this record deal, I'm gonna get that money from a record deal and I'm gonna purchase an illegitimate studio, okay? Okay, right. And then from there I'm just gonna create catalog. I'm gonna write for everybody that needs songs. I'm gonna be a writer, a composer, and if the artist stuff worked, that's cool. But I know this part, it's a no brainer. Cause I know I got this. And then the next thing I'm gonna do, I'm gonna take all these songs, I'm gonna take it to the Fugees and I'm gonna see how many songs they want and take. I'm just gonna write for them and I'm gonna stay on the road with them and all this. By that time they were so big. And then there was some friction going on within the family, you know, Cries, he's the businessman moving clef. And Lauren wasn't getting along, seeing eye to eye. So it was a lot of little things. So I was like, okay, that ain't gonna. That can't work. Cause they gotta fix that before I could be a part of what's going on. And then you had Spider and you had all these other members. They had they stuff going on. So now we're all kind of coming together. But we can't be the nucleus without the three main members, right? So then I was like, okay, I need to just focus and be, you know, going. And that's when I ran into Lil Zane?

[Host]

Yes, yes.

[Akon]

Lil Zane used to live in my complex. And he was riding his bike, little kid. He was. Oh.

[Host]

So he was like.

[Akon]

He was only 13 years old.

[Host]

Oh, wow. So this is like before he was real.

[Akon]

He was only 13 years old and he rolled past and he, he came to me, he said, man, I heard you produce. I said, yeah, how you know? He said, yeah, man, I heard you produce. He said, I rap. I said, you rap? He said, yeah. I said, rap for me. He rapped for me. I was like, man, this little man, he hard, you know what I'm saying? Like, super hard. So then he's like, yeah, man, I'm signing, I'm signed, and I'm with Naughty by Nature. And I said, oh, they from Jersey. I know them.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

So he told me about Vinnie and what he was doing with them over there and Tretch and all of them. And then come to find out they had a single deal with rca. So Lil Zane then introduced me to a guy named Devine Stevens who was doing all of the artist development for LaFace in Atlanta. So even till this day, when people say, well, you know, who discovered you? I'd be like, it was Lil Zane, to be honest, because he was the one that put me in pocket to meet with Devine, who later brought me to Steve Rifkin. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. Isn't that crazy?

[Host]

But also, I mean, it was definitely Lil Xane made the play. But if you hadn't had the relationship with the Fugees.

[Akon]

Oh, yeah. Eventually I think it would've all came together. But I think that route was the route that it was meant to be. Cause what's the odds of a 13 year old kid taking me to a connect that puts me on? Like the odds of that. He's 13.

[Host]

Yeah, it's incredible.

[Akon]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

It's incredible. And so when you look at your career, we talked, it's interesting, we talked a lot about the career, but more so about the highlight of it.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

What do you believe was the darkest moment in your career?

[Akon]

I think the darkest moment is when I got locked up, to be honest. That was the darkest moment, period. But then while I was in there, I kind of saw the light at the end of the tunnel. It's almost like I had to sit down, like I was out of control, Like I needed to be locked up, to be honest. Cause at that time I thought I was being punished. But later I realized God was preserving me for something because the other two guys that I was moving in with. They both doing life in prison right now to this day.

[Host]

Are they.

[Akon]

And they got locked up while I was in jail.

[Host]

I see.

[Akon]

So he preserved me, you know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah, that's heavy.

[Akon]

Yeah, it was. It's that.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, that's heavy. The older I've gotten, the more conscious I've become about keeping keeping a high protein diet and not in an obsessive way, but more just paying attention. Because when I'm getting enough protein, I feel it. Mentally, I'm sharper. My energy doesn't drop at 3pm and after a workout I'm just not wiped out for the next two days. Now the hardest part has always been staying consistent. I travel constantly. Sometimes I'm on set, sometimes I'm in a studio, sometimes I'm at a desk. And the idea that I'm sitting down to a perfectly balanced, protein rich meal three times a day, well, that'll just never be my life. So I lean on our sponsor Huel Now. Their black edition powder is what I use when I'm at home. It's 40 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. Then one of my favorites here, the ready to drink, which is better when I'm running from place to place. Same nutrition, zero prep. Last but not least, the cherry on top. We have the trifecta which is the daily A to Z. That's vitamins, energy and hydration all in one can get your heuel today at hewlett.com wntt and use my code WNTT for 10 pounds off girl.

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[Host]

What pains you today?

[Akon]

Nothing.

[Host]

There's nothing.

[Akon]

The only thing. But I don't want to call it pain, okay? The only thing that bothers me is that Africans can't come together. That's the only thing that when I think about. It makes me angry because we have the potential to be so much more if we came together.

[Host]

Yes. And I'm with that. But just on you, though, there must be moments where you. Where something feels heavy to you.

[Akon]

That's the only thing that feels heavy. I swear to God.

[Host]

That's the only thing that feels heavy.

[Akon]

That's the only thing.

[Host]

But, I mean, what about. I mean, you've got kids.

[Akon]

Yeah, but my kids are fine. Like, my kids are great. Relationships are good. It's all manageable.

[Host]

But it's not.

[Akon]

And those are things I can control.

[Host]

But it's not. I mean.

[Akon]

So.

[Host]

All right, so you know what I'm saying. I have two boys, right? And I always say that my. And maybe this is not the right thing to say, but this is what I say, is that my happiness is based on their happiness. So if they're in a situation where, like, I know one is sick, then I'm not in the greatest moods. Because he's sick, right? You know, so my happiness is almost based on.

[Akon]

But as a parent, that's automatic, right? That's father, mother. Like, that's automatic. I don't even think you can count that, because that's just what it. That's your seed. They're connected to you. Like, you know what I'm saying? But when it's people that aren't connected to you genealogically. You know what I mean? Genealogically, whatever.

[Host]

Genetically.

[Akon]

Genetically, there we go. I couldn't find a word for nothing, right? When they're genetically not connected to you, but there's a spiritual connection, it hits a little harder because it's in your soul. Because I honestly believe, somehow, some way, like, even sometimes, like I may say the dumbest thing online. Cause I know people are gonna comment about it to create a conversation about something that's important.

[Host]

Okay?

[Akon]

You understand what I'm saying?

[Host]

So do you intentionally do that?

[Akon]

A hundred percent.

[Host]

So would you put yourself as a. You would say you're a rage baiter, then?

[Akon]

No, not quite. It's a method. Cause one thing I like, prime example, one of my earlier songs, right? The one album that I can say was true to me was my first album, Trouble.

[Host]

Okay?

[Akon]

Right after the Trouble album, I realized, okay, this is a business. The world ain't gonna always wanna hear about my problems. So I'm experiencing different things that they also can relate to. That's when Convicted came in, right? Convicted was stories of success, but also stories not about me, but what other people felt and what other people saw. But there Was also a lot of ignorance in that album that I knew would draw to people that I needed to hear me.

[Host]

Oh, interesting, Right.

[Akon]

So I got I wanna fuck you smack that the shit I normally wouldn't sing about. But I know it's gonna draw an audience that I need to talk to. Then I go into freedom, which is a little bit different. You understand what I'm saying?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

But it also opened up a platform for me to talk to certain people that normally wouldn't listen. Interesting.

[Host]

So you're saying you strategically dangled the character.

[Akon]

Oh, I. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

[Host]

So you talked about, will you say what ignorant stuff.

[Akon]

Right. Cause it's going to open up the comment.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

And guess what happens? It's the best thing because when it does open those comments, I'm reading them and it's always somebody that asked a question where I'd be like, bingo. And that's who I respond to. And guess what that does. It opens up a whole conversation. And my followers know. Like, they know.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Because they've seen the threads of real conversations about what us as a people, what us as humans, the challenges that we need to face to have these certain discussions.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Right. And oftentimes it's about culture building. Right. And tradition building. Because most African Americans don't have a culture that they are aware of from an educational perspective. They know what they were raised around, but they background is very hazy because they wasn't taught that because of the way the system was built in America to teach them black history.

[Host]

Yeah. And also too, is like your approach to this.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

I mean, I can't act like, oh, I'm shocked that you're going to be.

[Akon]

That's entertainment to me.

[Host]

Because every. I would say every uberly successful entertainer that I've ever talked to has been fully aware of. Of the business of entertainment.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

And that the business of entertainment is to draw out emotion, 100% fear, joy, happiness, sadness, and then try to deliver the message a hundred percent throughout it.

[Akon]

100%.

[Host]

So I can't act like I'm shocked? Because that makes sense.

[Akon]

I mean, that's what it is. Like, you gotta know how to, like, you gotta know how to manipulate the algorithm because the attention span is only small and the average person is going to respond to something negative before they respond to something positive.

[Host]

Yes. Yes. All right, so then on that, then, is there anything that you want to clarify?

[Akon]

No, I need, like. No, I need it. I need that.

[Host]

I need it. All right, so then can I ask you some questions that are Lingering. And you don't have to answer that. So first is. This is gonna sound wildish. What is your name? What is your real name?

[Akon]

I'm serious. All right. Yo. Because I like you, and you are my brother.

[Host]

Thank you.

[Akon]

From another mother.

[Host]

Thank you.

[Akon]

I will give you a hint, but I can't give you the full okay.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

All right.

[Host]

All right.

[Akon]

And if I give you one word, you. If you feel my soul, you will understand.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Entertainment. Why are you looking at me like that?

[Host]

Are you serious? But are you serious? Are you serious?

[Akon]

What? I mean, what did I say?

[Host]

You said entertainment.

[Akon]

I'm entertainer. Yes. Woman entertainer.

[Host]

But your name, though.

[Akon]

What about it? My name is Akon, but.

[Host]

Full name. Full name.

[Akon]

You want to hear it?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

All right. I will give you the backstory, but I can't because I already gave you a hint. Okay, but it's Aliyu Ndaba Taipuru. Bother the Akon child.

[Host]

Look at your face.

[Akon]

Yeah. Okay. In 10 years, I'm gonna give you the full definition story.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Where it came from, how it came from, which family member, how, and how it became what it is.

[Host]

Okay, but in 10 years.

[Akon]

But I need people to search, research. Understand?

[Host]

Okay. All right. I'm with it. I'm not mad at it.

[Akon]

But you're the closest to ever get me this close to explaining the meaning of that name.

[Host]

You know what? I appreciate it. I do. Because I have. I think that there are people who have questions, but then we have to understand what we were just talking about. And that is that you have been very successful at keeping our attention for a long period of time. Like, you've been in the game for a minute, and you are still selling out arenas. And so for you to do that, from what I understand about the music business, is it's not just about the music. It's about the business.

[Akon]

No, it's the businesses. I mean, it's the music business. People forget the book. The word business even is even attached to music business. Right. So this generation, they kind of did a leapfrog. They skipped the business and went straight to marketing. Right. Before in my generation, they ran with the music and forgot the business. And in this generation, skip the business and go straight to marketing.

[Host]

Okay?

[Akon]

So the interesting part about it is that they're both in the same boat because you got these kids that go viral every week and wondering why their bank account is empty, not realizing that viral moment just generated millions for somebody. Somebody. And you weren't a part of it.

[Host]

Right? Right. Yeah.

[Akon]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

So the popularity will always win in human nature because everybody wants to be popular. But the problem is popularity comes with a cost. Cause now when you're popular, everybody thinks you're rich. So when you popular with no money, mental awareness kicks in, depression kicks in. This is what all these kids are going through right now.

[Host]

Yeah. We just had James Sexton. He's one of the most famous divorce attorneys in the world.

[Akon]

Wow.

[Host]

He said the same thing. Interesting. He. He said that the worst thing you could be is popular and broke.

[Akon]

Oh my goodness.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

It's no joke.

[Host]

Have you been there?

[Akon]

Yeah. You would never know it though. We all been through it. The most famous, the most so called rich you have to go through. There's no way around it. But how so it's just how the business goes. Especially if you're an investor or you're a businessman, you're going to take losses. That's a part of the business. You're going to take losses. The question is, how do you pad those losses to where you're not lost long enough to lose it?

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

But you're going to hit those little potholes like the same way the stock market goes up and down. You got to pad it enough to where when the stock market drops, you got enough to hold you until that start lift back up. And it's no different being a celebrity, a businessman, or someone to claim to be a billionaire.

[Host]

Okay, that's true.

[Akon]

I mean, think about Trump. He'd been a billionaire for how many years that you've known him for all your life, right?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

But he was a billionaire in the negative. He owed billions.

[Host]

Right, right.

[Akon]

That ain't a billionaire, right?

[Host]

Yeah, that's true.

[Akon]

Now he's in the positive way up, man. Once you file bankruptcy, you're no longer a billionaire. But once you hold that title, those decisions that you make can keep you there from a strategy or image perspective. But liquid man, you working off and living off credit.

[Host]

Yes, yes, yes. Can we talk? If you're open to talk about this. Can we talk about relationships?

[Akon]

I'm always open to talking about relationships.

[Host]

All right. Because this is my background is that I was a matchmaker. And most of this conversation, this show started with relationships.

[Akon]

Interesting.

[Host]

And I see that your talks on relationships, when you talk about relationships, it gets a lot of attention. But let's not necessarily clarify, but just get your opinion on certain things. So first is you. And I would imagine that you're. So you believe in polyamory?

[Akon]

Yeah, polyamory, Yep.

[Host]

And one thing I will say That I think there's a lot of people that's like, oh, polyamory. I think we have to understand, because I've researched the hell out of polyamory is that I've seen that 82 to 85% of societies around the world at some point have allowed practiced polyamory.

[Akon]

Right, right.

[Host]

So I think we have to understand that the majority of the world at some point society's practiced it. That's why.

[Akon]

Because polyamory is natural behavior for men. This is a natural behavior now because of the rules that set around us. We control that behavior to, you could say, appease our partner because of the same rules that we're living by and that we're, you can say, agreeing upon. Does that make sense? It does. Because when you're single, it's not a problem. It's only when you are attached or you've promised someone that this is a relationship that we're supposed to hold in the rules that you decide to hold it in, if that makes sense.

[Host]

All right. But the only pushback I throw is that I think I feel like men and women have evolved as both monogamous, you know, so monogamy, practicing monogamy and non ethical or. No, no, let me say monogamy, creative. Polyamorous and creative. Right. Because the way that I see it is that there's a lot of, you know, so pair bonding is natural.

[Akon]

Right?

[Host]

Pair bonding is you connect with one person, you feel the emotion, you feel jealous if they're with you.

[Akon]

It's all human. That's human genetics.

[Host]

But also, we have evolved from, let's see how many people we can have. We can genetically pass our. Or should we pass ourselves on?

[Akon]

That's different. That is different because that's careless. Like, okay, you don't just go out and say, okay, let me just see how many chicks I can get or how many homies I can smash ball players, whatever. Right. I think that behavior is completely careless. Now, who you attracted to naturally, that's a feeling that you can't escape, you can't deny, because it is what it is. A feeling is a real feeling. You can't control who you're attracted to. Right. But you can control who you decide to approach that attraction towards.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You follow what I'm saying?

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

That's why I said single people. Oh yeah, you guys are all day. Can move how you want to move, whether it's in secret or it's an open. If it's going to be open, just be completely honest.

[Host]

Yes. Okay.

[Akon]

That's all I ever say, if you're going to do it, be honest about it. Yes, that's it.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

There's nothing more. The problem is majority of the critics are hypocritical because they're saying that this ain't right, but yet they're doing it because there's not a person, I promise you, that ever critic or critiqued anything that I've ever said that if I went and did a background check on them right now or hired a private investigator, that I wouldn't find nothing. That's just being real. Right. So the thing is, I think as humans, sometimes we find ourselves judging others, not understanding the pathway they went through, because most of the time, oftentimes when I'm talking, I'm talking relating to culture. The culture that we came up in Africa, culture that certain people came up in the Middle east and even in Asia is just totally different from how it is in America and in Europe.

[Host]

Yeah. But then also in America and Europe right now, polyamory is increasing.

[Akon]

No, they're just more open with it. It's always been there.

[Host]

Yeah, okay.

[Akon]

It's always been there. They just now just being open with it.

[Host]

Fair.

[Akon]

Fair.

[Host]

And also, I think it's important to underscore that to marry multiple wives or husbands is illegal in the US and the uk, Right?

[Akon]

It is.

[Host]

However, is it practiced? Yes.

[Akon]

Yeah. I mean, if you go to Utah, it's illegal. It's legal in Utah,

[Host]

so I thought it was still illegal, but it's practiced.

[Akon]

This is what I mean when I say it's hypocritical. It doesn't make sense. Like how this, in the state of Utah, it's legal because you can go through the courthouse and literally marry as many as you want. Not even, at least in Islam, you entitled to four, and four is a heavy load on a man. Like, you can barely deal with one, let alone four. Right. So in Utah, you can marry as many as you like, but it's not a conversation as to what that is, because there's no explanation for.

[Host]

Okay, okay.

[Akon]

You follow what I'm saying?

[Host]

All right.

[Akon]

And if you do create an explanation, then it becomes racist. And you don't want to go that route. You want to keep it traditional from a cultural perspective. So it's just really a matter of understanding that there's different cultures in the world. If you don't understand it, learn it, or find a way to understand it, or if that's not your cup of tea, it's okay that that person can be able to Exercise that culture without it affecting you.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

Unless you're interested in yourself and just can't do it.

[Host]

And this is the culture that you

[Akon]

grew up in as a Muslim.

[Host]

Yeah, as a Muslim. Right. And then. And in Senegal in particular, I would imagine that.

[Akon]

Oh, yeah. Our president. Right now. Our president has two wives.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yes. All right, so now, currently, can you say, how many wives do you have?

[Akon]

I just leave that to your imagination.

[Host]

Is it more than the president of Senegal?

[Akon]

It's entertainment.

[Host]

Okay. All right, so then how about this? Is that. Have you. You have recently, though, broken up with one of your wives?

[Akon]

That's entertainment as well.

[Host]

That's entertainment. Okay, all right, so then on this is. And maybe this is entertainment, too, is in polyamorous relationships, I've seen that there's different setups.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

Some of the setups are, I think. And I could mispronounce this, but it's sororal. So they are like sister wives. Like, they know each other, get on almost as family. Others, they don't know each other.

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

In your setup, do your wives know each other or. No.

[Akon]

That's definitely entertainment.

[Host]

That's definitely entertainment. Okay. Okay.

[Akon]

All right.

[Host]

How about this one, then? Is. Can you say, how many children do you have?

[Akon]

That's entertainment as much.

[Host]

That's entertaining. Okay. Okay.

[Akon]

No, but I got the most amazing kids. I got nine all together.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Seven boys and two girls.

[Host]

Seven boys and two girls.

[Akon]

And the setup. That all depends on the person and the understanding.

[Host]

All right.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

All right. So then with the setup. So we had Bri on, and she has a child with Nick. Nick Cannon. And she was telling me about her setup, and what's interesting is she was saying how it is the most healthy relationship that she has had. But my question to her was, how does she deal with the communication? Because having one. Having one partner, that is hard enough. How do you deal with the communication with multiple partners?

[Akon]

It's communication literally. Like, it's literally the answer and the solution. You got to be mature enough to know that if this is the situation that I'm going to park in, I have to communicate.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Okay. This, I like this. I don't like this. I'm for. This I'm not for. And this is what I'm willing to, you know, deal with, and this is what I'm not willing to deal with. And once y' all lay down those rules, just abide by them. It's literally that simple. All right.

[Host]

All right.

[Akon]

Like, it's literally this.

[Host]

So then in that scenario, though, right? Do your wives. Can they have multiple partners?

[Akon]

No.

[Host]

So only you can have multiple. Okay. But in another setup, you're fine with the wife having other partners?

[Akon]

I mean, if that's a setup, that works for them.

[Host]

Okay, cool.

[Akon]

Exactly. That's why I said it depends on the person.

[Host]

Cool.

[Akon]

Okay. Cause I've seen Europeans where you have a girl that has two boyfriends. I've seen it, like, literally, in Ibiza. I've seen it, like, with my own eyes.

[Host]

Yeah. And I was looking at, like, Tibet up in the Himalayas. They have polyandry where the woman will have multiple husbands, right?

[Akon]

Yeah, 100%.

[Host]

All right, so what are the benefits, then, do you think, to polyamory?

[Akon]

I think that would also depend on the situation as well. Okay, but. And oftentimes when the family is united in that way, the benefit is more for the woman than it is for the man. For sure.

[Host]

Really?

[Akon]

Yeah, because the man actually has to take care of all of them. He has to treat them all equally, and their responsibility bears on him as well. So it's not just his responsibility, but all their responsibility is also his responsibility. Right. The women, they have partners in this case of unity and understanding, where, okay, they can alternate roles because it's four of them or five of them or three of them or two, they can alternate those roles whether it's cooking, whether it's cleaning, whether it's taking care of the kids. One may want to take a vacation. Okay, cool. Y' all go after mommy, sister, whatever, and vice versa. So a woman's role is really to manage the household. So picture one woman managing the whole household versus multiple. And they're working together. Their job is cut in. However many wives you may have, if it's four times, and that's four times less work you have to do because you have other sisters that can work out work with you on those situations.

[Host]

So in this or in your structure, are all of the wives equal, or

[Akon]

do you have that's any structure, no matter what structure. Oh, really? Oh, really? It has to be. That's the only way it could work.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

They can't work if they're not equally treated or treated equally.

[Host]

But do you have. I mean, this is gonna sound absurd, but, like, when I have to write, when I have to fill out a form, it's like, who's your emergency contact?

[Akon]

Right.

[Host]

And it's my wife.

[Akon]

Always gonna be the first wife, no matter what.

[Host]

So the first wife, which is the first one that was you were married to, period. Okay.

[Akon]

That's always. Because that one Is the reason why you even got 1, 2, or 3. She's the queen.

[Host]

Interesting.

[Akon]

Period. You gotta know that.

[Host]

So does the first wife have to approve?

[Akon]

Nobody violates wife number one the moment they violate, out the door.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Hands down. If you don't understand that, it's entertainment. Okay.

[Host]

You know, I'm gonna use this.

[Akon]

Oh, that's our new line.

[Host]

I'm gonna say that's entertainment. Look, I'm gonna tell my kids this too.

[Akon]

Yeah, period. She comes first.

[Host]

Okay, but see, I didn't know this.

[Akon]

Yeah, period.

[Host]

I didn't know this. Okay, so I get it. So the structure is more hierarchical. Like it's. She comes first. The others.

[Akon]

Yeah. Cause there's levels in the end, you know, like she's the one that's actually sacrificing in the end. You know what I mean? Because with new people, a part of your family, there's gonna be new attitudes, new mindsets, you know, new behaviors. And they gotta deal with that only so that you can be able to do what you need to do as a man. But more than anything, it's a level of happiness that comes with that too. So they gotta help preserve even that happiness so they can even stay happy. All right? So, yeah, they're the queens, for sure. Wife number one.

[Host]

Last question on this is, do you see any downsides, though, especially for your wives in a dynamic like this?

[Akon]

Yeah. In a dynamic like that, you got to be able to put yourself in their shoes. You know, Even though women have the tolerance, way more pain tolerance than men do.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

They also have emotional tolerance more than men do. But sometime that you could beg to differ with that. Because men, we're not good at emotions. That's why when we get emotional, we get violent, we get rowdy, we get dangerous. Right. Well, women, they can suppress those emotions and still be calm us, we can. Right. So the one thing I would probably say in that question is that you got to be able to understand that when they're going through a level of emotional distress, you got to be able to ease that. So you gotta be the one to play the role, to try to deconvent anything that you feel can create a problem.

[Host]

Okay?

[Akon]

Right. You gotta pre think that, like, you gotta already know, okay? To be in this position. I'm already blessed to be in it. Then I'm even more blessed that these people are sacrificing for me to be in this position. So I should never put them in that situation. All right, Fair or never put them in a situation where they feel compromised, disrespected or any kind of way feel unvalued.

[Host]

Okay. Okay.

[Akon]

Does that make sense?

[Host]

It does. It does. And I say. And the only small pushback I'd throw on that is I think that men, we disproportionately have a hard time managing emotions. But we can.

[Akon]

No, we can. We're capable.

[Host]

We're capable. Yes.

[Akon]

They're just better at.

[Host]

We're social.

[Akon]

They're just better at that. Cause they know how to multitask emotions. We don't.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Akon]

Our emotion is drawn to one person at a time. They can love the whole family at the same time. You understand what I'm saying? When it come to emotions. But when we're angry, we go to the person we're angry at. When they're angry, they go to everybody that that anger affects.

[Host]

No, no, no. This is. This happens.

[Akon]

You feel me?

[Host]

This happens.

[Akon]

They be mad at you. They mad at the kids, too. Cause the kids came from you, and

[Host]

they look just like you.

[Akon]

Just like you.

[Host]

Yeah, but. But I think what's great when I say conversations around masculinity today is that we're talking about being able to showcase our emotions, being able to not be impulsive. Cause I think that gets a lot of. In particular men in trouble all the time.

[Akon]

Cause we don't stop and think about it before we react.

[Host]

Yeah, exactly.

[Akon]

You know what I mean? Women are planners. They don't just react, they stop. They think about it. They plan it out, then they execute. Then they respond us. The moment we feel it, we go right in, then be like, damn, why did I do that? Damn, I should have thought about that first. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah, true, true. Also in Utah, polygamy was briefly decriminalized but made illegal again in 2022. But we know it still happens. And I think what happens that's just for the books. Exactly. Is that you marry.

[Akon]

They got TV shows up.

[Host]

He's like, I know I'm right.

[Akon]

If I came out with a TV show, what would happen?

[Host]

I mean, think about it. It'd be well watched, though, bro.

[Akon]

I'd be handcuffs. I'm gonna tell you that right now.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Akon]

I mean, they will implement that law.

[Host]

No, no.

[Akon]

That's why I never got married. Interesting.

[Host]

So it's not. You're not married, married.

[Akon]

It's entertainment.

[Host]

That's entertainment. See, I think. I think you were just. I think you just answered it, though. But. All right, now, is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't yet discussed? That's important to you. That's on your heart.

[Akon]

Yes. My new album, Beautiful Day.

[Host]

Let's do it.

[Akon]

Yeah. So I dropped that. Well, I don't know when this is going to be airing, but I dropped it. It's out. Okay. The new album, Beautiful Day is out now. And this is like my fourth official album. You can definitely hear the growth from trouble to convicted to freedom to beautiful day. Like you can. You'll be able to see how they align with each other.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

And influences and the culture. Even on how I even bring back some of like the African rhythms leading into it. Like it just feels. It makes music feel good again. Because for a while music was very violent. Like it was dark.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You know, a lot of drill rappers was dying over these songs, but it was like, I was like, man, I need something that can just remind people that spirituality actually exists is. Because that's what we're missing right now.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

So I did it in a way to where it didn't sound preachy, corny. But when you listen to the album, it's going to make you reflect for sure.

[Host]

That's interesting too. Is that. So your spirituality, you believe has guided you.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

Throughout your entire career?

[Akon]

100%.

[Host]

Yeah. Because that seems like that has been your through line, which I didn't realize before doing the research and having this conversation with you.

[Akon]

Man, that's what's up. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. So then when you were locked up, you had a ten year plan.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

You basically accomplished it all.

[Akon]

Yep.

[Host]

So now what's your new ten year plan?

[Akon]

Oh, yes. Legacy building now. It's definitely legacy building now. And at the top of my plan, I would tell you, but that's the reason why I've been, you could say, in the media lot.

[Host]

You gotta give it to us.

[Akon]

That's why I feel like I'm a target right now because of that plan.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

I will tell you soon, but I'm gonna get further down into it before I open up my mouth.

[Host]

Okay. So you're building towards.

[Akon]

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. The next plan is gonna submit my legacy. Like nothing. Nothing you've seen before in your life.

[Host]

Cause you have been in the media a lot.

[Akon]

Yeah.

[Host]

So this is specifically around.

[Akon]

It has a lot to do with the 10. Yeah.

[Host]

Is there anything on that 10 year plan that you can tell us?

[Akon]

Not quite. Because they kind of all connected.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akon]

Yeah. This one is a silent plan.

[Host]

It's a silent plan, but it's going

[Akon]

to be probably the most impactful thing that my generation has ever seen. Once it's Complete. Yeah.

[Host]

And it deals with Africa, for sure.

[Akon]

It's entertainment.

[Host]

Well, I tell you what, though. This is how I can help you with entertainment.

[Akon]

Right?

[Host]

Is, you know, we're one of the biggest podcasts now.

[Akon]

This is the reason why it has to be entertainment on your podcast.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

Because you're too big of a podcast right now. That's the one time that your podcast may not work for me. It might help. It might fuck me up. You're too big.

[Host]

No, this can help you. This could be entertainment.

[Akon]

This could be entertainment.

[Host]

You could drop the little hint. A little Easter egg.

[Akon]

See, the thing is, the thing about hints today, AI knows how to decipher those hints.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

It's so smart.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

It's so, so smart. I know. Cause I have an AI company. So I'm telling you, trust me. But I promise you, though, when it's time to announce yes, I'm giving you my word today, you'll be the one I give the exclusive to. Duh. All right.

[Host]

My man. My man. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

[Akon]

Absolutely.

[Host]

I hope you continue to change the world.

[Akon]

Nah, that's what's up.

[Host]

Cause I think, you know, you are an artist that has touched everyone, and it's really interesting because everybody knows you. And what I've noticed about you is I've, like, I've dropped your name to different people. And, you know, when you say akon, you know what everybody does? They smile.

[Akon]

Ah, that's what's up, man.

[Host]

That's powerful.

[Akon]

That's amazing.

[Host]

Because not every artist does that.

[Akon]

Nah, that's true. That's true.

[Host]

Every time I say akont, people smile, you know, so you gotta keep making people smile.

[Akon]

That's a blessing. Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Last question, then. Every guest gets this. You've had some incredible conversations in your life, Right? When you think about the most impactful conversation, who was it with and what did you learn?

[Akon]

Mm. It would definitely be my grandpa, without a question. Because those conversations, till this day, I ride with him, like, till this day, right? Because it was something that he told me that was just. That made me think every time, like, I either get in front of a platform or get on stage, he would always tell me. He got two quotes. One was a quote, and one was just something he said for me to think about. The quote was, he said, life is like a hotel room. We are just passing through. In that quote, it basically tells me that from a perspective of where we stand in life, this is not where it ends. Like, this is just a test. After life it continues somehow, some way, spiritually. I know there's answers to whatever those questions are that our minds just probably can't process it at the moment. The same way we can't process the idea of how God looks like, feel like, smell like, whatever. Those are things that we know exist, but we can't put a touch on it to prove it. Right. And the second thing he said, you're going to get to a point in your life when you're going to be able to speak to billions of people and you have to decide, what do you say when you get there? Right. So I always use that as a platform for my entertainer friends to have all these social media hits, all these followers, you know, constant people. And it was so interesting because this is something I always wanted to give to a very, very good friend of mine who just says whatever he wants to say, whenever he wants to say it on camera. And I know when I say that, you already know who that is.

[Host]

I know. Is Kanye.

[Akon]

No, you said that. I didn't say that.

[Host]

But

[Akon]

ye is in his truth. He's in whatever he feels at that moment. But if you have the chance to speak to a billion people, what do you say? Yeah, that's the responsibility that he told me that I will always have to carry, no matter what. So strategically, always say something that's going to lead to something that's gonna help humanity in some form, fashion, or some kind of way.

[Host]

Yes.

[Akon]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yes. Is your grandfather still with us or.

[Akon]

Nah, he passed.

[Host]

He's passed. So then last, last question is that when he passed, how do you believe that changed you?

[Akon]

Oh, no, it actually motivated me, believe it or not. Did it? It was the funniest, and I don't wanna say funny, but it was the craziest thing because when he passed, most people with the relationship I had with him, you would have thought I would be depressed and crying. I actually felt joy. Did you? Yeah. Cause it just. I already knew that wherever he was going, he's good. Like. And I know that at the end of the day, I had an ally in the spirit world that's gonna be looking out for me. So it was a joyful thing. And then I also knew that my time is coming. I'm gonna be there too. I didn't look at it like I lost anybody.

[Host]

Right.

[Akon]

I looked at it like I gained an ally in the spirit world because I know half the stuff that I be dealing with that I can't figure out how I'm gonna go over it. And get over it. I know for sure that my grandpa up there making moves like, I just feel that way. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

Because when you have that kind of spiritual advisor on earth talking to you like that, when they no longer exist, the advice is still there. Just. It's an instinct. Because sometime. And how I know it's an instinct is because when I want to make a decision and all of a sudden my grandpa pops up, I know at that moment I'm having that conversation on which direction to go.

[Host]

Right, right.

[Akon]

Does that make sense?

[Host]

No, it does. And do you almost even. Do you channel your grandfather when you're making decisions or when you're in certain environments?

[Akon]

Nah. But what's interesting is I don't like, physically channel him. It just, whenever I'm going through a difficult moment, have to make a crazy decision, out of nowhere, his thought, the thought of him pops up. So it almost feels like, okay, he's guiding me in the direction I need to be going.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akon]

If that makes sense.

[Host]

No, no, it is.

[Akon]

It's weird, right?

[Host]

No, no, I don't think it's weird. You know, I talk a lot about my best friend from Brooklyn who passed away. And I normally, like, I see him, right? And when I'm making a decision, I hear him, Right.

[Akon]

You can just pop up.

[Host]

Yeah. He's like, yo, yo, that's it.

[Akon]

You just know.

[Host]

Yeah. And then I know. Then I lean into it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah.

[Akon]

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. This is deep.

[Host]

I appreciate your time.

[Akon]

Nah, I appreciate you, man.

[Host]

Yeah, keep. Keep doing your thing. Keep making people smile. Nah, for sure, you know, most importantly, and I can't wait to hear what's at the top of your ten year plan.

[Akon]

Nah, you gonna see it. You ain't gonna hear it this time. You gonna see it.

[Host]

What's it gonna look like?

[Akon]

I can't tell. It's entertainment.

[Host]

All right. Done, done, done. But yeah. Thank you for coming through, man.

[Akon]

Nah. Hey, this segment of the show, I think you need to call it, It's Entertainment.

[Host]

Yeah, I think so.

[Akon]

I think so.

[Host]

I'm gonna start. That's entertainment. But it makes sense. Like, you need the entertainment.

[Akon]

Nah, you need it, man. It's so important. Thank you. Nah. Thank you, brother. Thank you, thank you.

[Host]

Akon. One word. Charismatic. He's someone who I've heard his music throughout my entire life. And, you know, they say, you know, don't meet the people that you've looked up to or that you've admired from a distance. But he surpassed my expectation. And also, I Admire his relentless focus on Africa and unifying people. That's something that is just super admirable because he doesn't have to. He could just chill with his millions of dollars, but he is really dedicating his life to the empowerment of others. One of the things that I loved about this conversation was the ability to have discourse. You know, there would be something that Akon said that I might not agree with. I would listen to what he had to say and then I would present my opinion. He would listen to what I would have to say and would agree or disagree with it. And then we would go back and forth and then at a certain point, stop. That is what we need more of in society is conversation. It's a great reminder that we can have different views on things and still get along. I'm still going to the concert.

[Guest Artist]

Look up, it's Kanye. I was like, dear God, if you are there right now, please, I need him to come outside so I can say something to him in Jesus name. And then Kanye walks right outside.

[Akon]

And I said, take me on a trip. I like to go Someday you'll be my American boy.

[Guest Artist]

One of his friends actually came up with the don't like his baggage, but I might like what's underneath them. And I was just like, okay, who are you, young sir?

[Host]

And that's it.

[Guest Artist]

It took us, like I said 15, 20 minutes to hit and left it and went home.

[Host]

Will there ever be an American Boy 2.0?

[Guest Artist]

There was a lot of like, why are you even. I have people who would actively say, she's a waste of money and then be a captain for me at the Mobos. I feel like the industry is like a death by thousand cuts.

[Host]

What was the moment where you felt like you were on the brink of losing it?

[Guest Artist]

Oh, goodness. I was performing everywhere I could. Any stage I could get to. It doesn't matter the crowd.

[Host]

I'm having a fun time behind the talent. They saw the passion. Were you the first person that John Legend signed?

[Guest Artist]

He literally started a label to sign me. He believed in me that I get off the train at Sandra Pay. It's like one in the morning. I'm on stage at two. I drink half a bottle of vodka. My body wasn't working. Everything started slowing down. I get to a show and my voice don't wanna sing.

[Host]

Is there anything that we have not yet talked about that you want to talk about?

[Holly]

Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner. Those sandals that can keep up with you. And hang some string lights to give your patio a glow. Up spring. Spring's calling, Ross. Work your magic.

[Host]

You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome, Columbia. Engineered for whatever.