← We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson
Loading summary
Transcript440 lines
- [00:01]
A
Girl, winter is so last season.
- [00:04]
B
And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes.
- [00:08]
C
Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs.
- [00:10]
A
You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio
- [00:14]
B
sundress those sandals you can wear all
- [00:17]
C
day and all night.
- [00:18]
B
And you've had enough of shopping from your couch.
- [00:20]
A
Done.
- [00:21]
B
Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope.
- [00:24]
A
It's time for a little in person spring treat.
- [00:27]
B
It's time for a trip to Ross.
- [00:29]
A
Work your magic. This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the love Hypothesis, Sterling point and more slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting.
- [00:58]
C
Watch only on Prime.
- [01:00]
A
I'm filled with this super guilt with my older brother going in drug induced psychosis. But like, if I could turn back time and not have fame, but have my brother, I would. But before we talk about that, we kind of have to go into how
- [01:15]
B
it started, which is for everybody who hasn't seen. What was your first one?
- [01:18]
A
You've seen the state of her body. It might be it. I ain't wearing a johnny. I think the lust for fame comes from not having that attention as a child. Like, I remember my dad was super inebriated, his heart stopped and he wasn't breathing. I'm like attempting to do some form of CPR. Obviously I'm 12, but I don't think any of us realized how far it was going to go that quickly. Island records 150 per single. I hadn't seen 1000 pound in my life at this point.
- [01:47]
B
So then Artie, what's then the darkest period? Because with light comes shade.
- [01:50]
A
In the video shoot, I keep swigging a bottle. You can see it in my eyes as well. I'd be talking to the walls. You can't walk, you can't talk. Legs go. I've never spoken about any of this before, but me not being drunk from January till now, that's the longest I've been sober since I was 12 years old.
- [02:08]
B
Can you address this? You had so many hits back to back to back. Were you an industry plan? Hey there. Before we begin the episode, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life and I want to continue to share it with you so hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. Rd.
- [02:48]
A
Yes.
- [02:48]
B
We need to talk.
- [02:49]
A
Let's have it.
- [02:50]
B
All right, so let's start with how you feel right now.
- [02:56]
A
Yeah, I am very aware of what you do and I'm a big fan of what you do and I've seen it. So I know that these conversations are very open and vulnerable and I. I'm not afraid of those conversations. I mean, we've just met. Do you know what I'm saying? So there's a vulnerability, anxiety in that. You know what I'm saying?
- [03:13]
B
No, I hear you. What I find most interesting is that we have public figures on who, you know are at a festival with however many thousands of people in the audience. Right. Or on tv. Millions of people are watching you. But when they come and they sit in this chair, there is a bit
- [03:31]
A
of nervousness that it's far more revealing. Like I've always said, even down to like shows on that I. The most nerve wracking shows I do are like the, forgive me for people who come to them, the weird industry ones where it's like 80 people all sat with like champagne just like watching you perform. Rather than like once you get past 5,000, 5,000 to 10,000, there's not much difference because, like you're not. It's just like a sea of people.
- [03:57]
B
Now, what's the biggest crowd you've performed in front of?
- [04:00]
A
We've done Wembley with Capital. That was a big one. That was a big moment for me. I think I was 20 years old and I had like my DJ. I had them chanting RD and Wembley.
- [04:14]
B
I mean, how people.
- [04:16]
A
85,000, I think.
- [04:19]
B
85,000.
- [04:19]
A
And it was full, it was sold out. It wasn't just me. I didn't sell it out, but still
- [04:25]
B
85,000 people chanting your name.
- [04:27]
A
Crazy, crazy high to come down from as well.
- [04:29]
B
Yeah, yeah. So let's unpack you, man. I started with rd. We need to talk. Yes, but you have a government name.
- [04:38]
A
I do, yeah.
- [04:41]
B
All right, tell me the government name and how we get to RD from that.
- [04:47]
A
Some people find it a cool story. I find it a little bit like not. Not embarrassing is not the right words. It's not that cool and interesting. So my full name is Riley Davies and I was a big Eminem fan growing up. Was always curious as to how he become Eminem. It's because he's Marshall Mathis. That's M and M. So I'm rd. That's it. Yeah. There's not a wild story of, like, no one gave it to me, like.
- [05:12]
B
So you gave it to yourself, then?
- [05:14]
A
Yeah, I was in year seven in secondary school. It was not a turmoil time. I was really trying to implement it, you know, like, when you try and give yourself a nickname, it's not that cool. Everyone's like, we're not calling you that. Do you know what I mean? Because you're not a rapper. You're just Riley, 11 years old. And it would kind of be like a little joke in school, like, what are they? Yeah. And I'd be like, yeah, come on. But I know they're taking liberties out of me, you know what I mean?
- [05:39]
B
So that's wild. I didn't realize that. So it's through Eminem.
- [05:42]
A
Yeah. Literally.
- [05:43]
B
You got rd.
- [05:44]
A
Yeah.
- [05:45]
B
You grew up in Brighton.
- [05:46]
A
Brighton, yeah.
- [05:47]
B
How do you think Brighton has impacted who you've become?
- [05:51]
A
Looking back now as an adult, I look back at me as my mentality as a teenager and how, like, proud to just be myself I was and how comfortable I was really in my own skin from such a young age. Like, I started even making music when I was 11, 12, and I don't think this is young, but even in a sense of, like, I was making my own music, I bought myself my own USB mic, was uploading it myself onto YouTube. And when people were like, what makes you think you can be a rapper? I'm like, why can't I? Like, I can do anything. And part of that is installation from my mom's mentality and how I was raised. But I do think part of it was from bright. And I think it also is a huge part of me and my career and why people drew to me at a time where, like, the typical UK rap story is, like, London or Manchester was, is and was coming up. You know what I mean?
- [06:41]
B
Yeah.
- [06:42]
A
But there wasn't necessarily that bright, and I was very bright. And obviously Jordan and Rizzle Kitts were from Brighton and they still implemented it, but I was. I was screaming it from rooftops. Every video you could see, it was like, seaside. And I was mentioning it a lot and. Yeah. So it plays a massive part and I love it. You know what I'm saying?
- [07:01]
B
Yes. Yes. Now, you just mentioned your mother, who, from everything I've read about you, seems to be the most influential figure.
- [07:10]
A
She's the goat.
- [07:11]
B
Yeah, yeah. In your life. So could you talk about the early relationship that you had with your mom and how you believe that it changed in your younger years?
- [07:23]
A
I was outside a lot as a kid. So my older brother, he's autistic and so he's two years older than me. But he needed a lot more attention and caring. And obviously my mum, I now looking back know that she obviously had to learn first of all what it is to be autistic and how to navigate that. My brother didn't speak a word of English, didn't speak till he was seven, like by choice. Like he, he could, he just made dinosaur noises and stuff like that. Like we had a good relationship, but I have no animosity to it. It's not like I look back and think, oh, my mum cared about my brother more. Like I love my brother and I love my mum. And that's what. I don't feel like I needed it necessarily, you know what I mean? But what it did mean is that I'd be playing out with like the older boys. So I'd be like 5, 6. Playing out till late ish for a 5 or 6 year old. But it wasn't dangerous because wherever I was there was a neighbor of some sort that was watching their kid and everybody was all friends, do you know what I'm saying? But I remember always being told as a kid, like, you think you're, you're way older than you are. Like I've always acted like an adult and I used to always wanna chat and blend and be with the adults even from down. Like if my mom had all the family over, I would wanna stay up later and I would put on like shows and perform. So I used to perform like songs from the, the musical Oliver Twist. My mom would put me in like a little.
- [08:50]
B
Oh really?
- [08:50]
A
Like a little hat. And like, yeah, I would, I'd sing those songs and it would mean while they're all drinking and having fun, I would get to stay up later.
- [08:57]
B
Right. How much of. And this is a topic that I haven't heard you talk about in detail, so only as much as you want to. But how much of how you were showing up was based on your father not being present with you?
- [09:15]
A
When I was a kid, kid before I'd met him again, you don't know any different. So it was like looking back now, there were definitely times of like the start of like this feeling something's missing, like this hole. But I didn't know it was like, well, it's because my old man's not there because he, he left when I was 2. It was so weird to have not met a human and never have any memory or experience of him. And then Constantly have your entire family, like, you're so much like your dad. You're the spit of him. Your mannerisms, the way you talk, your personality. And I just like, again, it just goes in one way or out the other.
- [09:55]
B
What do you. You learned at that age about yourself?
- [10:00]
A
Looking back now, my mom was definitely still my mum and was like a maternal figure. But I'm kind of realizing in this conversation how we used to navigate things. It was and has always been a level playing field. It's not been like, this is the rules, you need to do this. Anytime she did try to do that, they would be rebelled against at the highest level anyway. And so I'm realizing she probably looked at that and thought, right, well that's not gonna work with him. And my mom's good at that. She didn't like raise me and my brother the same way.
- [10:32]
B
So when you think back as to what you needed that you were not receiving as a child, what would that be?
- [10:40]
A
Attention. I think. I don't believe I would have wanted to become famous if I didn't have the relationship dynamic with my dad that I do. But.
- [10:54]
B
So how does. But help me understand how you're learning more about your father. How does that then push you to then want to become famous or want the. The public's attention?
- [11:07]
A
I've wanted to be famous since I was 8 years old. Like watching Michael Jackson on the TV or like Robbie Williams, like this big kind of energy. And I've always been around music as well. Like my mom has always had music playing in the house. So I think I would have. I would have always been musical. I've always liked my. To make my own music. But I think the lust or whatever, not, not lust, whatever the word is for fame comes from not having that attention. And it's like, all right, cool. At some point a fire was lit that was like. Even when I was getting the attention, it didn't feel like enough. And so when I'm leaving, there's more and more resentment every time he's in and out. And it's like, cool, I'm not gonna get it from there, so I'll get it from everybody else, then watch. Do you know what I mean? Then that hole will be filled. Obviously it wasn't. You know what I'm saying?
- [11:57]
B
But yeah, well said. It's well said. I get it. I definitely get it. So then with your mom, help me understand how that then relationship changed. Because with your mom, I'm just so impressed with her.
- [12:07]
A
That's incredible.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah, yeah. So how did the relationship with your mom change? And then tell me about everything. Like, your mom got like, she's got a black belt, like. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about her.
- [12:21]
A
She's just super gangster, innit? What can I say? Like, I think our relationship, we were friends. I mean, me and my mum were pals. Like, even for all of primary school. I've never hid anything from my mum. Anything I've got up to. Like, for better or for worse, legal or illegal or naughty or like relationships and drama and troubles with girls. Like just a super open relationship. And I think that was intentional from her.
- [12:48]
B
Let's talk music. Yeah, let's talk. Let's talk music. I am going to circle back to your mom, though. Yeah, but let's talk music because this is something that I am. I didn't realize until just having this conversation now is how early you knew you wanted to be famous.
- [13:06]
A
Yes.
- [13:07]
B
Because this is also a common theme that I've seen among our guests who've all been famous musicians. Is that early. They didn't know exactly what it was, but they knew they wanted to perform.
- [13:19]
A
Yeah.
- [13:20]
B
And they knew they loved the response that they were getting the attention. Right. So you said it was early.
- [13:26]
A
Super early. Before I knew it was music, I still knew I wanted to be famous. We used to get pocket money from my mom. I think it was a fiver a week or something at some stage. My brother used to buy sweets. I used to save the pocket money so at two weeks and buy albums. So, like, it was actually early on it was like rock music. I used to love Tenacious D. Yeah. Like Jack Black. And even like, if you look at how kind of my character, if you look at like the humor side of my social media and how I don't take myself too seriously, it's very Jack Black esque. He was my hero. For a long time before it was Eminem, it was Jack Black. Yeah. And then obviously at some point it changed and I fell in love with Eminem and rap and hip hop and I used to love his like. Like, you know, like, cleaning out the closet. Like, he's talking about his mum and that kind of. Even though he's speaking about his mom and my feelings with my dad, this Eminem spoke to me on a different level. Even his like, fuck everybody and everything attitudes was something that spoke to me massively, as I used to, okay, listen to a lot of Eminem. And then I remember writing my first or like, not writing, but coming up with my first rap when I was in like the shower. I can't remember what it was, but I used to be in an American accent because these times I've never heard a UK rapper. This is in, like, year five or year four, like primary school. And then I remember the. The first time I'd heard any UK rap was. It was like a. I can't remember which one was first. It was German Whip with Meridian Dan and that's Not Me by Skeptic. And this is all kind of leading into secondary school.
- [15:03]
B
You know, this is so fascinating to me is that now, having talked to so many people who have become famous, right, I see that there is a formula and the formula is exactly what you mentioned. Part of it is this belief, almost to the point where people think it's delusion.
- [15:23]
A
I wouldn't even say it's belief. Like, there wasn't. I didn't believe it. I knew it.
- [15:28]
B
You knew it.
- [15:29]
A
I couldn't see me doing anything else as an adult.
- [15:32]
B
And part of that comes from just something innate. The other part of it comes from. You've seen it. You see your mother is achieving incredible things.
- [15:39]
A
Right?
- [15:40]
B
You got that? The other part. So that's one. The other part of the equation two is need for attention.
- [15:47]
A
Yeah.
- [15:48]
B
Third levels of trauma that feed all of this. These three things together I see is now like, you know. So what do you think was the first song that you wrote?
- [16:03]
A
The first song that I wrote, we spoke on it earlier. There's a group in Brighton called Audioactive. Jordan's been a massive part of them and they come round to my school, Hove park, and I was made aware of it and I remember coming to the music room after schools at 3 o' clock and Hatta Will Voucher. This is a guy from Brighton, he's part of Audioactive, but also his own musician. And he come and I was refusing to leave the classroom and so I heard the teacher say, like, cool. These are the kids that want to be a part of it. He's not supposed to be here. He will eventually leave. Just don't even bother. Like, it's just not worth the kind of thing. Like, it's basically what said, obviously, that made him instantly gravitate towards me and he's like, what's happening, mate? I'm like, yeah, what's going on, Bath? Blah, blah, blah. And I showed him his lyrics and he was like, I can't remember if he cried or not. Obviously it was like, oh, wow. Like, what you're talking about is heavy stuff. I also remember that being the start of, like, the school getting Involved.
- [17:04]
B
They didn't. What they were. Were they making fun of? Yeah, making fun of.
- [17:09]
A
Of.
- [17:09]
B
I mean, why were they making fun of you or your music or. What was it? Or both.
- [17:13]
A
All of it. Like, remember, I'm. I was. I was small in schools. I take. I was, like, not bullied. I was never, like. No one could have ever bullied me in it. But my heart was always taking the piss out of anyway, which obviously eventually gave me, as I come later, into a teenager, small man syndrome and wanting to fight to prove that just because I'm little, like. But I remember the first one. I remember really getting taken a piss out. I wasn't. This one. No one had heard this one yet. They'd made. They'd played it in assembly. And I remember feeling so embarrassed and it was something that I'd kept with me for so long, even to this day. Now that memory gets associated anytime someone plays me. Like, something deep of mine. So I've got, like, the fire in the brief I've done with Charlie, for example, where I talk about, like, what's happening, what's going on with my brother, whatever. I know you probably couldn't play that around me because it reminds me of, like, when I made this song. I used music as venting. And so I'd made that song and they played it in assembly for everyone to hear. Even, like, once I'd blown, like, some of, like, the earlier, deeper things I'd done. Like There's a Black Box. That's kind of like a little fan favorite. It was done before I was famous.
- [18:20]
B
Yeah. 2019.
- [18:22]
A
2019. Yes. Yeah, you got it there. But that I remember, like, when people. People would play it or, like, I'd hear certain bits of it, it would weird me out because it's like, it's. I wouldn't tell you that story if I just met you off the road, but I'm putting it online for everyone to hear.
- [18:40]
B
So then. That's interesting that that's how you started.
- [18:43]
A
Yeah. Sorry. And then.
- [18:44]
B
Because then it seems like you went from that, which is this very vulnerable state of expression.
- [18:51]
A
Yeah.
- [18:52]
B
To then was the next, I would say, was the breaking moment. Cheeky bars.
- [18:58]
A
Cheeky Bars was the breaking moment. So I'd left secondary school, went to a college called Northbrook, and it was like an arts college. I met a guy called Biggs, the engineer. Shout Out Biggs. He was from Crawley and worked at a studio in. Somewhere in London. And I'm just sitting in on his studio sessions. Yeah. Like, I'm not making music so he's recording another artist that's either paying him or a lot of the time he didn't get paid. That's another story. But eventually I saw he. He moved to a different studio in Woolwich. And the guy who owned that studio eventually became my manager at the time, my first manager. He. And so I used to go there and I could. He had. He had something different about him. Do you know? I mean, I could tell he knew the industry a lot better than anybody else I'd met. He'd blown other artists up. So he was his managing dino at the time.
- [19:50]
B
Okay.
- [19:51]
A
I used to play my music to him and he would basically be like, shit, it's shit. And that's. It was building up. Not. He wouldn't say it rudely like that. Be like, that's not the one. And I loved that because everyone else I played my music to, they're like, yo, bro. Like, this is sick, man. This is sick. I'll shout you. One shouts you. So this is the first honest industry feedback I've got. But he was still giving it the time. And I remember I used to again sit on Biggs's sessions and whatever, and he used to tell me I was talented, but he was like, bro, do you know what I don't get about you? And I was like, what? And he was like, I used to come to the studio with like my magnums or like, might be girls or like just whatever's going on. And he's like, you've got this like mad fun, cheeky energy about you. Like, that's. I. This version of you on the music that I'm hearing. I don't know him. And he's like. And it's amazing that you can do it, but it's like you're trying to sell your vulnerability and your whole story before anybody's listening. So his method was like, why don't you just be you? And so wrote Cheeky Bars. I wrote it in my loft bedroom. I was staying at Worthing at the time. The heating didn't work in the yard, so I had bare bubble wrap, like, you know, like them loft windows come down. I had bubble wrap around all of them so they would like. The insulation was dog shit. The room hadn't been converted properly recorded it. Mix and mastered it myself.
- [21:12]
B
Did you?
- [21:12]
A
Yeah, in my bedroom with a. I think it was like a 200 pound mic.
- [21:16]
B
200 pound mic. And how old were you?
- [21:19]
A
18.
- [21:20]
B
You were 18. So then you put that out and then what's the reaction?
- [21:26]
A
Yeah, it was Crazy and so fast. I can't remember what it done it like, I don't think the views were that mad, but people were talking about it like I had 10, 000 followers. I didn't have a Tick Tock account.
- [21:38]
B
Oh, wow.
- [21:39]
A
And Cheeky Bars was flying mad organically. Bearing in mind this is all in lockdown. Yeah. So I'm having all this mad virality, but I haven't. We haven't left the house in two years. I haven't been outside. You know what I mean? So then labels are asking, but they're asking to send music. They're saying, you know, Covid restrictions. We're not allowed to call on meetings.
- [21:55]
B
Okay.
- [21:56]
A
So obviously my manager's like, no, this is sit, let's send the music. I'm going, nah. And he's like, what do you mean, nah? And I'm like, any of them that want to hear music have to come and meet me. And it was partly because I knew I didn't quite have the record that I know they're gonna want. You know what I mean? I hadn't had Oliver Twist yet. So the first people that come, the first people at the door on a day, this is in this tiny little container studio. Bearing in mind some of them have been like, okay, well, we're not coming then, because we're not allowed. I'm like, cool, then you're gonna be the label that missed rd. That's fine. No problem.
- [22:24]
B
You're very confident.
- [22:26]
A
But because I'd had this confidence, a little bit of like, this is my moment. And then Cheeky Bars went I in my head. Now I'm the oracle. Like, I can. I can see what's about to happen.
- [22:36]
B
Right?
- [22:37]
A
And I'm so, so sure of it. So it didn't bother me. Like, when I think about. It was madness. I could have lost out on some big opportunities. It's a good job. It turned out all right. But. Yeah. So island come.
- [22:49]
B
Sorry. Island Records.
- [22:50]
A
Island Records, yeah. Dan Lloyd. And I remember actually. This is such a label move. Yeah. I was very, like, cheeky on my socials still. And my mom, if I used to go studio, my mom would still make me a pat lunch in it. Because, like, even though it's mad, even though I'm 18. Yeah.
- [23:09]
B
Oh, my God.
- [23:10]
A
Like, even though I'm 18, mentally, I'm still like 15, 16. Because the world come to a halt. Even though 16, still too old to be having packed lunches. But I used to love my Molpat lunches. And either ways she'd always put knickknacks in them. And that's my favorite crisp. And I took a photo and I was like, bad this Chris in England. No one can tell me anything different. Get to the studio. These lot of bought, like, there must have been 800 packets of knickknacks spread across this studio. Like banter, but almost like, yeah, like, you know, you. We. We can see you like knickknacks. And that was my first taste of like, forgive my language, I call it label slagness in it. It's like that. That kind of yo. We. We do really care. Do you know what I'm saying? And not that they didn't anyway, but yes. Dan, Alex and Sam, they've come and I'm pissing with. I'm jumping around. I'm performing in these guys. I'm doing the Bobby Shmurda. Just. There's no table. Do you know what I mean? And that was, I think, the first time my. Because my manager was willing to, like, take this some of the way at the time. I don't think he realized. I don't think any of us realized the extent of how far it was going to go that quickly. But I think that was one of the first moments again, I could see his approval and I remember wanting his approval. This was now a new male adult figure in my life.
- [24:23]
B
Great point.
- [24:24]
A
And like, he's. He's cool, you know, I mean, he's got like the. He's in that life. Do you know what I mean? And also, he used to be an artist as well, so, like, he knows the game. But I remember seeing in his kind of eyes, he didn't expect the meeting to go like that. So obviously they've left now and we've got a load of different meetings set up. And he was like, that was sick. Like, basically, I didn't know you was gonna do that. And so the. What we'd done by the time we had every label near enough knock by the end of it, and we'd had this kind of thing, I was. Even though I was very business minded, we would sit and plan together what we're gonna say to them, what we want. But I would let him do it. So we'd come up with it together and then I would play the character of, like, just this cheeky young kid. So the island of Khan. And I can't remember, I think the offer at the time, I'll speak about the money. I've never spoke about the money before, but I'll speak about, I think what we were trying to get was 60 grand for an EP, which is like six or seven tunes. It has to be 25 minutes long. Whatever. I remember at the time. So EMI was also under Universal and a guy, the industry with Archer, there's. There was a guy that worked there. I think it might have been the president, Archie, his name is in it. I'd been made aware he was offering quite a bit more than what everybody else. He was the only meeting we took that didn't come in real life, done over the phone. But I knew I wasn't going to go with him. He was. And this is again like a plan. I said to a manager I was gonna. So I'm gonna use him as a pawn. And we just threw like a wild figure out there. I think Archie had offered something like 70 or 80 and we had told Ireland that he'd offered 150.
- [26:04]
B
Wow.
- [26:05]
A
For two singles. So not even a project. And obviously he hadn't done. But they were just so mesmerized by like my character and I played and all these people that come to the meetings, they were like, well, we'll, we'll match it, we'll match it. You know what I'm saying? Right. And so yeah, got. Got that over the line. And it was, it was, it was 150 per single. We got. So two songs, 300 grand. I'd never, I hadn't seen a thousand pound in my life at this point. You know what I'm saying? So this is wild. Obviously. Like we're gas.
- [26:32]
B
You're 18.
- [26:33]
A
18 mental.
- [26:35]
B
It's one of these where you've probably just now seen more money than your mother has made.
- [26:38]
A
Yeah. And at the time, with where I was living, we'd been. We had to leave Port Slade, couldn't afford that. And then we've been kicked out of one of the houses in Worthing. Went to another house in Worthing and then just been told that we had to leave that one. Regardless, we were leaving that house. Do you know what I mean? And within that time frame I'd got that money. And so it was like, it doesn't matter now. Do you know what I mean? I don't know what our plan was going to be. I'd have to ask my mom, like what was going to happen if I, if I didn't blow at that point. It probably would have been like scrape some money together and move somewhere else again, you know what I mean?
- [27:10]
B
So what, what did you do with the money?
- [27:13]
A
Pissed it out the wall. I didn't yeah, with that first 300, I didn't save a penny even for the tax man. I didn't even know what, what tax was. And at the time. Tell her I know because Obviously you get 150 up front and then the other 150 once everything's done. At the time, I'd made a limited company like a week before company's house, made a Revolut or a Stalin bank or whatever it was. And then get the notification while I'm playing Call of Duty with my bedroom. 150 just landed in my bank. Matt. Like, I remember the first, first things I went and bought. I went to Selfridges in London and I dropped like seven grand on like every Stone island jumper I could find. Obsessed with Stone Island. Every I got I color Ralph Lauren polo. Yeah, every, like the orange and blue, just like ones that you like. Wouldn't even go with nothing. Like just mad abstract Ralph Lauren polos. A Gucci man bag, a black Ralph Lauren tracksuit. That was later than the outfit that I WORE for, for 6:00am and then, bro, the rest of it got put on. I was getting like, you can get like these apartment hotel things in London. It's not Airbnbs, they're. They're like hotels, but each one is an apartment. I was just getting them and just. It was, it was a waste of money. What I was doing was getting them in London. But because I didn't know any girls in London, I was just bringing the girls up that I knew from Brighton to London to get pissed off and have a good time and leave it like. Yeah, yeah. It all went to nothing, basically.
- [28:48]
B
Yeah. Year 18, you're 18. So then take me through the highlights of being on top, because it feels like you went from that, which was a monumental moment for you. But then things got just bigger.
- [29:04]
A
Yeah, it went mad, like. So we'd done 6am and we actually shot it at 6am and these times, all my friends, I'm like, I'm bright and famous now. So now all my friends are getting in the videos and they're around and we're staying at hotels and we had, we had birds at the hotels like the night before. Because now in my head I am acting this, like rock star lifestyle. TM Wayne had followed me from Cheeky Bars. DM me after 6am and was just like, yo, bro, you're cold. Yeah, it's like it all happened so quickly. So these apartment hotels that I was going to, that I was telling you about, and now at one of these again, I've got a few powers with me, a few birds there, whatever. And it's a code to get in past midnight. The receptionist obviously goes home. It's a code to get in. And some G wagons pulled up, a couple blacked out cars bare, man. Like these cars are full and most of them have got ballies on in it. So I'm like, obviously I've heard like not horror stories, but this is London, you know, I'm. I'm this little 18 year old boy from Pride. I don't really know what I'm doing. I ain't got no security with me. Someone jumps out and they're like, yo, yo, what's the code? And I was like, well again, the best way to navigate the situation is to just put my big smile on. Obviously I had my hood up and up. I've taken my hood down and you know, like seem friendly and whatever. They're like, what is that rd? Yeah. So I'm like, oh my days, I've just been like fan love. Boom, boom, boom. And then I'm like, yeah, yeah. Who's that taking the ballet off his tea on Wayne.
- [30:22]
B
Wow.
- [30:22]
A
So his breadroom was having a birthday like the floor above us. She's like, yo, come up, say yo. And I was out of my depth. You know, they've got like model birds in there. Like I'm there with like, you know, like some girls from Brighton and like, they're kind of just like friends from school. But we all looking back now, I met like and looking at even videos of me. I looked very young and I like, we all felt quite young. And obviously he's there like loads of his bridgings and there's yak everywhere and birds. But he was talking to me about body and he's like, yo, we're gonna do. He didn't have the remix yet. They'd done the original. I don't know if the original was out or not. I always forget that part. But he said, yeah, we're gonna do a remix like bomb, I want you on it. And then so I'm like, yeah, yeah, cool. And I remember at the time he was advised, I'm not going to say the person's name because we get along fine now. But advised by someone high up within his label at the time that he shouldn't get me on it, that basically I didn't deserve the opportunity just yet. It was too early. Don't really know where my career is going to go or like if it's, if it's Just like a little blip, which is obviously a lot of the time. It is. But Tion's always had a mad foresight, I believe, in terms of like spotting people early and he's like that and he brings people in as well.
- [31:31]
B
What do you think it was about you, the situation that made Tian push through the advice not to put you on that song, because clearly that song was. That's another massive moment.
- [31:44]
A
Massive moment. That's like, to some people, that's the start. I mean, unless you are not. I mean, if you're even an average fan, you might know cheeky bars at 6am but, like, in terms of like global and commercial. Commercial is body is the start of all of that. Right. I didn't act like I was hard. I was smiling. It was very like.
- [32:05]
B
Right.
- [32:05]
A
Cheeky chappy was the only way I could put. And that is me. It wasn't inauthentic. You know what I'm saying? And I think he bought into that and, I don't know, saw something.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah. So he put you on and you said that. A lot of people may think that was the beginning, but why so? Because that song won a mobile award, won a mobo.
- [32:25]
A
It went number one in England. It went number one in France. It went one number one in Australia. I think it got like. I think it got six or seven number ones. Something wild like that. It's incredible mental.
- [32:37]
B
How did that song change your career?
- [32:40]
A
It was mad because we knew it was gonna happen and it was actually delayed. So I wrote. I wrote quite a few verses for it. And then we ended up going with the one that we believe will go the most viral. We knew this was the moment. It's like we could super flex the pen. And I did a bit, but it wasn't like, that's not the goal of this right now. The goal of this is to capture everyone. The first line has got to be like, what did he just say? Which is obviously it did happen.
- [33:06]
B
Which is for everybody who hasn't seen. What was your first line?
- [33:09]
A
You've seen the state of her body. If I be, I ain't wearing a johnny. That's the line that went off. And I think Tion and Russ were very intentional of, like, they covered each area. She's like, Vivio foreign America. Bugsy Malone, Manchester Rd. Brighton. Obviously those guys from London, like, then they had Darko, like the female artists. Like, every base that could have been covered was covered. It was five days in, it was going. But it wasn't super viral. Like, it wasn't and we were like, maybe it's not gonna have this mad moment. And then literally overnight. So I think it was the sixth day because it went number one on the second or third week, the sixth day, America, I picked up on it and I was seeing like all, like the corny, like, dances being done to it and like the frat boys doing it. Mia Khalifa done a tick tock to it, like. So at this point I'm losing my mind. And I still don't at this point really understand TikTok. My label had made me make an account and I was telling them, like, this app's just going to be some phase.
- [34:12]
B
No one could use this. But how does that then change your career?
- [34:19]
A
Well, obviously, it just goes absolutely bonkers. We had to restructure the whole plan. And before, at the same time of like body being done, we were going studio. And again, my manager at the time is very honest. None of the songs were quite the right ones. So we were. I recorded like three or four in this one session with a producer engineer called jojo. And my manager had fell asleep, which is never a good science in a studio session. And then I'd put the beat on for Oliver Twist. It was just a YouTube beat. And the maddest thing is I wrote Oliver Twist the day, you know that I told you about that notification and 150 coming. I wrote Oliver Twist that day. And I was on FaceTime to my brethren when the money landed and I was on FaceTime to him. I was playing Call of Duty in my room and I was going through YouTube beats. I weren't like, I weren't properly playing it. Just like, you know, like, you're playing online with your friends. Like, he's in a lobby and I'm quitting and whatever. I was like, afk. So I'm scrolling through beats and so I wrote the hook and the verse or some of the first verse while on FaceTime to my mate. So I've got like Call of Duty on. He's there. Money's just landed. Beats playing the most ADHD environment.
- [35:25]
B
That is. That is, that is.
- [35:26]
A
And then, yeah, then I. I realized, this is sick. I was like, I'm going to end it. I'm going to throw myself into this. So then wrote the rest of that song. So either way, I didn't know how good it was. So I'm recording all these other ones that I believed were better and then played the beat. I said the first line, I just wanted some more. I'll have a twist. Because before I record. I wrapped the song to, like. I've got a couple powers in the studio and that with me and the engineer, obviously. And my manager on my life. Sat up like, the undertaker, like, was fast asleep in his chair, like. And then heard me say that line. Sat up and was like, record that. That's the one.
- [36:00]
B
I have two surprises for you.
- [36:02]
A
Okay.
- [36:03]
B
If I can.
- [36:04]
A
Yes.
- [36:04]
B
You ready for this first one?
- [36:05]
A
Let's go. Yeah. All right.
- [36:07]
B
I would like for you to read this.
- [36:10]
A
Oh, the so Smiley Riley on the front. I can. I can make a decent assumption as to who wrote this one. You know, what's funny is, something was nearly revealed to me within this moment, and I thought someone might have approached my mum. And my mom is a terrible liar. And I was in the car of her the other day and I was like, you haven't been asked any questions about this. And she. She lied so well, I genuinely believed her. She was like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
- [36:41]
B
You asked her if she.
- [36:42]
A
If she had been approached by you guys or if anybody had asked her. Because I just had a feeling. Do you know what I mean?
- [36:48]
B
Your mom is a legend.
- [36:49]
A
Conniving. She is a legend. Dear Riley, when I was asked to write this letter, I thought, we talk so much. What can I possibly tell him that he doesn't already know? But then I thought, often I send you songs that remind me of you or our relationship. And that's other people's words. So here are mine. From the day that I knew you were coming into this world, I loved you. What I didn't know is what a fool you would be to reckon with. You defied all stages. You were meant to be at walking and talking before I could blink. You had this light in you that shone so brightly. My little smiley Riley. I would always say, this boy has been here before. She did used to say that a lot. I used to think, what the fuck does that even mean? But I used to say this boy had been here before. Your ability to read emotions in a room and the empathy that you radiated was and still is wondrous. But I often wonder at what cost to you. I hope you know what a beautiful human you have grown to be. When I think back to your teen years, I'm so glad that I hung onto those battle ropes no matter how hard you tried to shake them. There's nothing a cheese ham, chorizo and chili mayo sub can't fix. I told you, I like my mom's packed lunches.
- [38:10]
B
And I know you tell the truth.
- [38:14]
A
No matter how mad I get, got at things you did, slash do. Sneaking off to Essex to an Essex Studio at 14. I could never and still can't stay mad at you. You have all this to come and I'm so grateful to be able to be part of this new chapter of life that is unfolding. I've never been so proud of watching the man you were during your daughter daughter's journey into the world. The devotion, support and the way you advocated for your love. Your baby's mummy was beautiful. It gave me a glimpse of the dad that you are going to be. I always think it's a funny statement when people say about your music career, you must be so proud of him because you are doing what you always wanted to do from the age of five and your first karaoke machine. What, 50 cuffs, which is a line from the Oliver Twist. Well, the line is what Fisty cuffs? I used to say, because I couldn't quite get my words out. What 50 cuffs. And that was one of the songs I used to perform. I do anything. That was. That was that. What I am proud of is your tenacity, your belief in yourself and your work ethic. Something I know you will pour into your daughter. If I can give you one piece of advice, it's not about parenting hacks or how to raise her. It's simply listen to the little things. Because if you listen to the little things, she'll tell you the big things, even if the big things make you want to explode inside. And so thank you for always trusting me with the little things. I will love you as long as the stars are above you. Please don't ever feel like you're less than perfect, even if you do start to dress and dance a bit like your dad. Amazing.
- [40:05]
B
Just perfect. Absolutely perfect. How does it feel to get that from your mom?
- [40:10]
A
Yeah. I don't really know what to do with myself now. I feel childlike a little bit. Do you know what I mean? Like, I've just been sung, like the first praises that I got sung when I performed for the first time is how I feel reading that letter. So it's obviously making me a little bit fidgety as well. Yeah.
- [40:26]
B
I could see your body language has changed, but while there's this. I think some people say it's uneasy, but to me it is like you've gone back to that little boy.
- [40:39]
A
Yeah. And he's getting that approval that he always thought he needed elsewhere, that he always had right there. The whole time.
- [40:55]
B
I'm working On a great initiative with id, mobile and Mental Health uk. Science tells us that hearing a voice over a call can lower our stress, boost our mood and even help us to rebuild connections. So they're asking you to ditch the texts and make it a call instead. I'm going to admit something to you. I'm a chronic texter. I'm the worst person in the world to front this. You're not going to listen to me. Why would you? But you might listen to someone you know. So I had an idea flow with me on this for the next few weeks instead of ads with me in them, I'm giving up this seat right here to those people who've been waiting for you to phone them. And for the next few episodes, you'll be hearing from them instead of me. So these folks will have just one ask. Ditch the texts and make it a call. Hello? I've got to take this. Hey there. I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of addiction. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show. Notes, please take care while watching. So, Oliver Twist. Here's the thing that I'm most interested about that is that you said that when you were a young boy, you would perform Oliver Twist Mad, innit?
- [42:28]
A
For the most full circle moment ever. So again, at this point I'm like, I am the oracle. Like the world is revolving around me. Like I. What I command is coming into my life. You know what I'm saying? Like that's, that's the way I'm feeling at that time. Like it's almost like a. Like a God complex a little bit. You know what I'm saying?
- [42:46]
B
Exactly. So this is where I wanted to go. Because you're still what, you're 19?
- [42:50]
A
Yeah, just turned 19 now?
- [42:52]
B
Yeah. You just turned 19.
- [42:53]
A
I'm bearing in mind as well, let's see what I say to people a lot. And it's something that eventually made me like ended up in a dark place at some point. And it was hard to navigate because I had turned 18 in lockdown. All this happened. Even body was like still kind of locked down. Like the world haven't gone back to normal by the time clubs and just public spaces were open again. I never experienced the world in adulthood as somebody who wasn't somebody. Do you know what I mean? I've never queued up for a club, I've never attended a club as like a. I wouldn't say a normal person because obviously I am a normal person. But you know what I mean, it's like it's been bottles and I haven't had the feeling of being turned away or like, you know what I'm saying? I didn't get to experience none of that. It's been VIP and obviously I'm not getting my little violin up because it's. It was a blessing. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [43:41]
B
Yeah, but. No, no, but I think it's all interesting and especially too is right around that time, 18, 19, you're trying to figure out your identity.
- [43:48]
A
Yeah.
- [43:49]
B
Who are you? But then your album comes.
- [43:52]
A
Yes.
- [43:53]
B
All right, so. And the album number two on the UK album chart.
- [43:58]
A
Yeah.
- [43:59]
B
Right.
- [43:59]
A
Crazy.
- [44:02]
B
It's mad.
- [44:02]
A
Stayed in the charts for 33 weeks as well. Cause a lot of artists will get like a chart position and then it will fly out the next week. It stayed in the charts for 33 weeks. That's over half a year. Wild. Toot my own horn a little bit. Yeah.
- [44:15]
B
I mean, be proud of that.
- [44:17]
A
Come on.
- [44:18]
B
I mean, it's just success after success after success. All right, so now what. When you reflect back in that period, what was the highest high for you? What was the moment that just still. It feels surreal. It could be performing at a festival somewhere. It could be meeting someone who you never thought you would meet. But what's. What's. What's the surreal moment?
- [44:38]
A
It was all so fast. I don't know if I could pin it to one moment. There's a few. So, like buying my mum. My mum wanted. My mom had a Mini, but it was an old Mini. And my mom's favorite car, dream car, has always been a Mini. And so her partner, who's now her husband, bought her the one she had. I kind of one upped him and bought her a brand new Mini. That made her cry. That was a surreal moment.
- [45:02]
B
So then, Artie, what about what's then the darkest period? Because with light comes shade.
- [45:08]
A
Yeah. I don't necessarily know if I would have known at the time it was the darkest period, but with all of this, that wasn't the solution. There's still something I'm yearning for. I'm still problematic. I'm still constantly trying to numb myself. You have to remember, like I said, you're the first time I've tried anything substances of any form was like 12 by the time I'm 15. Like, me and my mates are getting pissed all the time, like, ever. And we're all problematic kids, you know what I'm saying? I now know that it was a confusing time because it didn't make me sad. I wouldn't say, like, my darkest point was also my highest point, but I wouldn't say to you any of that period was my highest point. I would say I was super, super numb because it was like I was not capping what I was rapping. We was rock star living. We was doing a lot like the video shoot. I've never, like, I never really dove into kind of my habits or like how bad it eventually got, but I mean, I suppose here's the place to do it.
- [46:10]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think what's so helpful about this is that looking at the image, I wouldn't know that you were entirely numb.
- [46:21]
A
Like, nah, of course not throughout. And I could. I could turn it on like that. So the Oliver Twist music video we shot in two parts. And so for the first day, we'd done like the tattoo shop scene, the scene of me on the i360, the red jacket with my mates. And throughout the whole day, we was drinking. I'm doing balloons, I'm doing whatever else during the video shooters. And I'm doing this at work, which. And it's. It's normalized. This is my first, like, proper high production video shoot. And again, part of my thing, not even just as a brand, but as like a person, my whole thing was that no one can out drink me, no one can out party me. And again, that's. It's what my old man used to say to me. Like when I was a kid and we used to have a few drinks or get up to whatever, he'd be like, when you want to shut out the title, come for it.
- [47:06]
B
So on that shoot though, you're saying that you. You drank the whole time?
- [47:09]
A
The whole time. I'm off. Like, by the end of it. That tattoo scene of me, well, I'm tattooing Adiola. This is obviously after the body line has gone off. She's in the shop. Yeah, I'm pissed at my head. But in that scene, when I look back at it, like, you can see it in my eyes as well. I've done. Because in the video shoot, I keep swigging a bottle, which they wanted, but they told me, yo, like, don't actually sip it. And I'm like, what? Like, I'd get annoyed at people for saying shit like that to me. Like, what you think to my fans, I'm gonna fake the lifestyle? Like. And then the next day, so we had to do a pickup shoot. Half the video was done. Second day, okay. I'd gone out the night before and was doing. I let, I'll let people draw their conclusions. I'm clubbing and drinking girls pies. I've ended up back at some random uni gaff. I've never spoke about any of this before but it feels weird for me to speak about because at a time in that time this was a big part of my life that we quite intentionally hid. Like because the cheeky, fun, the life of the party guy is less endearing if you were to see the full extent of it. And we were aware of that. And so we, we kind of hid it even like slightly from my label. So forgive me if I like stutter a bit because I'm not, I'm not used to talking about it, you know what I'm saying? And I remember my checking the time and I was ignoring my manager. My plan was to not turn up to this. This is, this is the start of my career. I'm doing this already. Yeah. And it's like I look back like how could you be so almost self destructive and detrimental to something that you wanted and worked so hard for for so long? We got in the car and I'm saying to my manager, you can't take me to the video shoot. I'm not doing it. And he's like, this is your own doing. And they have spent money and this is. You are too early in this signing and in this relationship. And he was 100, right. I don't think he was like forcing me or like exploiting. He was saying like this is your, your own doing and we. What do you want us to do? Everybody's there, right? So you're gonna have to go down and oh, at least again I'm an adult, you know what I'm saying? And I'm acting like a little boy at this point my childhood. No, I can't. So I'm absolutely finished these. I haven't slept for like what's it over 24 hours now? So I've gone out at 10 o' clock at night. It's now like 1 o' clock in the afternoon. The next day I'm still going to keep myself going. I'm drinking still and doing whatever else. But as soon as there's that action, the smile was on, you'd pop it. Eyes wide open. Like I don't think you would watch that video and could tell that on one half of the shoot day I hadn't slept. It's sad for me to say but some of those moments where I'm supposed to be so, so up I'm not down, but I'm not really up evil. I'm basically just not always pissed up. But even when I'm not pissed up, I'm in autopilot mode. Like, I'm very detached because my. My whole character or essence that I'm selling, even though it is me, it's a role that I'm playing and have developed from a young wanting something child. And I was constantly, like, escaping myself as a person who, like, had all these feelings and like, undealt with mentalities and problems. Try venting to, let's say, like a pal that you grew up with who is working on site bricklaying Monday to Friday and try to like, vent your pain to him and see how they react and then see if you'll ever do it again. Because you, you don't. You're like, well, it's falling on deaf ears. I'm still struggling to make ends meet and I'd swap with you in a heartbeat type shit. Do you know what I mean? So then you stop doing that. Like, why would I then be vulnerable? Because you start to feel guilty for feeling shit still. It's like, why do I still feel shit? Do you know what I mean?
- [51:05]
B
Who. When you keep that in opposed to venting it to someone, what does that do to you?
- [51:17]
A
I had. You got like. I had this weird complex. Whereas, like I said to you earlier, like, I hate sympathy. And then I'm feeling sorry for myself and then I'm angry at myself, I'm feeling sorry at myself. And so it. But the solution to all of it was always drink, drugs and partying. The celebratory drink, drugs and partying that I feel like. So I'm gonna go blow off steam. Drink, drugs and partying. And. Yeah. So again, it just led to more numbing.
- [51:43]
B
Do you believe you had an addiction?
- [51:45]
A
100%. 100%. And I've always been very careful or wary of speaking on this because I didn't want to be the person that touches and all of this and then still carries on doing it. So just for like, context, me not being drunk from our. And on whatever else, from January to. What is it now? Nearly April, that's the longest I've been sober since I was 12 years old, like, which is a long time.
- [52:10]
B
That's profound.
- [52:11]
A
Especially now, having a kid, that makes me sad. Like, and I said it to my mum and there's. I'm sure we'll touch on them. Like, there were loads of times where my mum was super worried about me because, like, I say with all of those highs and everything, like you said, like me having that God complex hit after hit after hit and Australia tour, Europe tour and all these tours. I was doing craziness. I was doing again, like what I thought rock stars did. And it was like trashing hotel rooms and having people, like stupid amounts of people back for after parties and like again, just doing everything I thought I should be doing. And then you. You have like an industry low where maybe a song doesn't connect. Not. It's not hit after hit after hit forever. You have. The industry is waves. And I'm aware of that now. But when you come into an industry so often, clean off the bat, like nothing went wrong. Even a little moment. Like I remember a song of mine, hello, mate. When this is a summer record we'd done, but it went number 30 in the charts. Amazing. That's a good outcome. Wasn't for me though. I was absolutely like, nah, like that's not it. I've gone number one, number five, number four, like Flowers was in the chart. So I had Ed Sheeran, Adele, Elton John. They were the people I was in. Com. Like surrounded by good company initially.
- [53:30]
B
Next levels. Good company. You know that. Can you address this? If you're willing to talk about this is. You had so many hits back to back to back that there were industry plant accusations.
- [53:44]
A
Yeah.
- [53:45]
B
And I want to. So we found. So Complex magazine. They were talking about what an industry plan is because people will debate over the definition. So Complex said an industry plan is an artist whose success comes from their music industry connections rather than their artistic merit or genuine interest from fans. So this could include labels using paid social posts and manufacturing viral trends.
- [54:11]
A
Yeah.
- [54:12]
B
Were you an industry plant?
- [54:14]
A
Absolutely not. It makes me laugh. How could I have been? I'm the white rapper from Brighton. You can't. That has to be received well. Otherwise it doesn't go. You can pump 10 million quid into that from the jump. If I'd have been pumped like that from the jump, it wouldn't have worked because you have to have that validation. Especially I believe anyway, in rap and hip hop, you like, you have to earn your right. Because it's not about like especially I think the term industry plant doesn't exist anymore. Full stop today. Even for pop acts. If you look at like, I call it like the Simon Cowell method of like taking different people and planting it, like because of social media and because of algorithms and stuff, it just doesn't work like the. Even how label structures work nowadays. Like you get signed and they'll sign you for however much and whatever. It's still your job to get their record off the ground. I have to do the tick tock, the comments, have to engage in it. People, real life, human beings have to use the sound like you can't, you can't inauthentically do that. Do you know what I mean?
- [55:21]
B
It's one of those where every, I think not every, but many of the artists that I've talked to who have had extreme success in a short period of time, people will say industry plant. I remember when I youngblood sitting right here and there were accusations industry plant. And what he was trying to underscore was how much pre work.
- [55:42]
A
Yeah, you just don't see it.
- [55:43]
B
Yes, it's. And then also an aspect that we haven't talked about specifically but you've mentioned a few times. You're like, and I'm a white rapper. I mean, let's talk about being a white rapper in the industry.
- [55:58]
A
It was a weird one. I'm also not blind to like, I think I've always put it as. It's a little bit harder to get people to be interested at first as a white rapper because it's not typically a white space. And then especially like I was very aware of the fact that I was also my lyrical content and what I was rapping about was obviously it's not like not just white people party, but it was more typically that world. I'm talking about drugs and parties and turning up and lit and obviously everybody does that. But how I was portraying it felt very white with no better terms to put it. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [56:43]
B
Yes, yes.
- [56:46]
A
And so I was aware of that as well. And some people didn't like that. And it's completely understandable. Do you know what I mean? Especially when rap and hip hop and the culture itself, the essence is essentially how it started was a voice for those who wanted their stories to be heard. And like you go back to like mob deep and all that kind of stuff. That's where I say like the essence of hip hop. And obviously this is different because we're in UK and it's, it's an offspring of grind that we're doing and it's drill now and it's, it's obviously all evolved. So. So yeah, there was a lot of awareness and I'm also aware that once it went in terms of how these labels view it, and I'm not saying this is right by the way either, but how they view it as a Business is like, okay, well, he's a UK artist, and rap is what's cool, and it's made cool by the culture. And now this white guy is a face that more. There are more white people in the UK than there are any other ethnicity. You know what I'm saying? And so their dollar signs, in their eyes, start going kaching because people are drawn to what they can relate to. Do you know what I'm saying? And so there's definitely an unfair benefit in that. And so I always tried to, like, it's a weird complex. I always tried to make sure that people knew I was aware.
- [58:08]
B
So then, do you feel like you were used in part by the industry because you were white in terms of
- [58:17]
A
what, like other artists or.
- [58:19]
B
Yeah. So in terms of rap music. Right. Because I think this. To me, this is such a fascinating topic because what I'm understanding from you is that you came out with these very vulnerable raps.
- [58:37]
A
Yeah.
- [58:38]
B
Very story. It was all storytelling. And I'm with you. I mean, I'm from New York. I'm from the origins of hip hop.
- [58:47]
A
That essence. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [58:48]
B
That's the essence. It was, as we used to say, it was the CNN of the streets.
- [58:53]
A
Yes.
- [58:53]
B
It was saying exactly what was happening,
- [58:55]
A
what was going on. Yeah.
- [58:56]
B
And it didn't start parties. It did not.
- [59:01]
A
Yeah. That come about, I believe, more like Dipset and like the Locks. And that. That was when rap started changing a little bit. That era.
- [59:10]
B
It definitely changing. And I would say, even preceding that a little bit, you know, it had started to change, but it started from. Yes, a very. This is the struggle. This is our struggle. And this is our struggle as a black culture. This is our struggle.
- [59:24]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [59:25]
B
And so for you to say that, you know, if the record company saw me and they were like, you know what, Because I'm white, they could use me to reach these fans who are predominantly white, and I could speak to it. And on top of it, I'm not going to. They don't want you to speak about the struggle, your struggle coming up. They want you to speak about the party lifestyle, popping pills, et cetera. So then, that being said, do you feel like literally they used you because you are white?
- [60:00]
A
I don't know. I don't think. I don't think necessarily the label or like the record label industry used me because that was. That was me. They didn't instruct me to make that kind of music. That was the music I was making. Do you know what I'm saying, and especially at that time, I hadn't even played any of the labels, any of the deep pain stuff, stuff, because even from a management level and just people around me level, it was very clear that it didn't quite connect, like, with who I am as a person, even though I have that side to me. And I believe, like, as an artist, as time goes on, you unveil layers of your artistry. And so I have revealed, like, in. In later songs. You know what I mean? But it's like you have a main brand. It's like McDonald's sell the big Mac, and then obviously they have other stuff and there's fries and. But there has to be. There has to be the brand, because I am as rd. I'm a brand as well as I'm a person. And so there has to be structure to that. I would say that using there might have been, like, me feeling like, being used by certain, like, artists or like, being put on certain records to sell to a demographic that maybe that artist didn't initially sell to. Do you know what I mean? That weren't being taken to as much. But not. Yeah, I don't think so much like the industry. I don't know. I don't know.
- [61:27]
B
Yeah, I feel like it's a tough. It's a tough topic. And even before you came in here, what I didn't realize was how grounded you were in your, you know, in your lyricism, in your vulnerabilities. Early on. Yeah, I thought it was party, party, party right out the gate all the way. But what I see is that's not what it was.
- [61:55]
A
No, not at all.
- [61:55]
B
And I also see that you. It was a performative party for all of these reasons. Your father trying to, you know, trying to, you know, trying to impress others in order to.
- [62:08]
A
Constantly. And I'm like that now. Like, even in rooms, I go into that. Even within. Weirdly, like, within this conversation. Like, I haven't. I'm not sitting there saying consciously or intentionally, I've tried to impress you, but I know what you do. I know that you are. You dive into psychology and you dive into minds. And so within this conversation, I have flexed my capability to be able to dive into my own mind. And I'm still aware of that. And so. And then. But it can. If I think about it too much, it will snowball, because it's like, I'm constantly aware, but I'm still doing it. So then is it a choice or is it something that's just second nature to me in Everything I do. I don't know. Do you know what I mean?
- [62:47]
B
Yes. Yes. So then ultimately, I think what it boils down to is, like, if you think about you at your essence, then who is rd?
- [62:54]
A
Yeah.
- [62:55]
B
At your core, who are you?
- [63:01]
C
Hi, I'm Kim and this is for you. Joss, my lovely brother.
- [63:07]
A
Welcome to ID Mobile. Please leave your message after the tone.
- [63:10]
C
You know, it was my New Year's resolution a couple of years ago to text you once a week. I think we should level it up now. We should take it to the next stage and we should pick up the phone. Even if it's to commiserate about Arsenal. I love it when we're watching an Arsenal match together because I can see all your, like, emotions. But even if we're not together, you can always pick up the phone. I can, like, hear the heartbreak in your voice. Mum and Aman treat me like I'm a 32 year old child and like to know where I am at all times and track me on, find my friends. We don't need to go that far with you, but just a little check in once in a while would be lovely. Maybe like on the way to work, on the way home from work, whenever you get, like a quiet moment. The last time we spoke on the phone was for your son's birthday. But I wasn't really chatting to you, I was chatting to him. The conversation was probably about 10 minutes and of that I think I spoke to you for about one minute. I know having a kid, your life is very busy, but I'm sure we can make time for each other.
- [64:16]
B
How do you think a call would change the relationship with your brother?
- [64:21]
C
I don't know how different you are from your sibling. Very, very. Yeah, yeah. It's nice to have a different perspective, but just be silly with each other over the phone. My brother's very, like, routine led. Right. But I'm very like, loosey goosey.
- [64:34]
B
I see it, I see it.
- [64:35]
C
But, like, it's nice as well. Like, he will remind me sometimes I need to slow down.
- [64:39]
B
Yes.
- [64:40]
C
And I'll remind him that maybe you can be a bit more spontaneous. Right?
- [64:43]
B
Yes. When you said that, I was thinking to myself, has there been a time where I felt heavy or distraught after talking to my brother? Never.
- [64:54]
C
There you go.
- [64:54]
B
Yeah. I feel lighter. He's always teaching me about something that I had no idea about that ends up making my life better. Yeah, it's really cool. I feel like I should call him.
- [65:05]
C
I've inspired you.
- [65:07]
B
We are in partnership with ID Mobile. And Mental Health uk, we want you to ditch the text. Right. In my conversation here with Kim, what I've learned is you should just get silly. And you could only do that if you make it a call. You alluded to your father, and you were talking about, like, I'll one up you. And you said. And then there was a point where I reached with my father, where I was where. And I felt like you were going to say where I one upped him.
- [65:41]
A
Yeah. And not. I mean, I've always. Wrongfully or rightfully, I've always pinned it on. My dad was just like. I've always sought after attention, especially, like, male attention and male. Older attention and like, filling this hole of, like, okay, that's the male figure we're gonna look up to for the next three weeks or this season or whatever it is. It's like the first time I met him was on a holiday in Cyprus when I was like, nine or ten. Can't remember that age.
- [66:06]
B
And were you aware that you were
- [66:08]
A
going to meet him? No. I don't even know if my mom knew he was gonna be there. He does. He's been a man of many things, but he. At the time, he was doing something called timeshare, and I don't know if we. I don't think we'd planned to go over there to meet him. I think he happened to be in the resort. And my nan was like, that's your dad. Yeah. Yeah. And so. But. So there was. And then that was never structured. So, like, the next time I see him was when I was 13 or whatever, going back.
- [66:34]
B
But. No, no, but I mean. But let's talk about it. Cause you're nine. So you're nine. You're on holiday. Yeah, it's. It's you, your nan, your mom.
- [66:42]
A
I'd have to. Maybe my mom did go over for us to see him. As far as I'm aware, it was sheer potluck that he happened to be on the resort. But I don't. I don't know.
- [66:51]
B
All right.
- [66:52]
A
It would have. You'd have to ask her.
- [66:54]
B
But from your perspective, your nan was like, that's your dad.
- [66:57]
A
Yeah. And it was all. I always remember my nan being a prominent figure and my life. I was like, you are so much like your old man. Like, I've got to have a voice in my head. Anytime I say to someone that I was told, it's her, it's my nan's voice that I think of.
- [67:09]
B
So, okay, so your nun, your nan tells you there's Your father right there on the resort. So what's going on for you in that moment? And then how does that. What's the first thing that you two say to each other?
- [67:22]
A
I don't remember the first thing we said to each other. I remember the first thing I'd done there was like, I was in the swimming pool and jumped out and gave him a big hug. But also the first feeling I thought of, even when you just saying it, was being filled with pure fear. And I don't know why there wasn't like, a relief of, like, ah, there's my dad. Like, it was a foreign concept. So it was. I. I assume my body went into a bit of, like, fight or flight mode. You know what I mean? And, like, the first conversation I remember having is he was shy me. Two birds. One was called Kat and one was called Christina. I don't know how much you're gonna want me to talk about this, but it's cool because I've told him.
- [68:06]
B
The first conversation you have with him.
- [68:08]
A
Yeah. The first one I remember probably isn't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But it was. It was made very clear to me that you are not to mention Cat in front of Christina, and you are not to mention Christina in front of Cat. And in result of that, I got Assassin's Creed for the DS, which is the game I wanted. It's obviously a 15. It's. Or it might be an 18. Assassin's Creed for the DS and Guitar Hero. And my dad chose Guitar Hero. I chose Assassin's Creed.
- [68:37]
B
So, I mean, in essence, he bribed you.
- [68:39]
A
Yes.
- [68:40]
B
He bribes you with video games.
- [68:43]
A
Yeah. I don't think. I don't remember it like that. I remember it as. Like, I wasn't going to do it anyway because my dad told me so. And this is the first moment for me, this guy that I just met, this figure, I mean, again, Wild man is a madman. But he has a huge character and presence and even within the country of Cyprus, like, people that are recognizing him, he's the governor in it. That's how I felt anyway, and that's how I come across. And so this guy was Superman now, like, wow. Just almost starstruck by him. And that. That later developed kind of every time I linked him. But yeah, I remember going back to my mom and I had these two games, and she was kicking off, and I remember hearing them not argue, but she's pointing at Assassin's Creed. It's obviously the. The clues in the name. Like, it's. You're assassinating people. She said, you think that's appropriate? And do you think that. And obviously he's laughing. And he was like, ah. And he took the rap and said, well, which one did he want? And he was like, well, yeah, he wanted Guitar Hero. I thought I'd get him that one. And I remember the feeling of, like, this guy's cool as fuck. Because I wanted that game. And I knew I wasn't allowed that game. And I'd said I wasn't allowed that game. And he was like, yeah, go on, have it. And took the rap for it. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [70:01]
B
I see it. I see it. So that. I mean, that is, I think, a very interesting first interaction, first in Carla with your father. I mean, from the fear to immediately hugging to then spending the night with him, and then him basically, you know, presenting all of that. When you reflect on that. Cause you've had a lot of years to think about that.
- [70:25]
A
Yeah.
- [70:26]
B
Do you feel like you got what you needed from him in that early interaction?
- [70:33]
A
I don't know. Cause it's always like. Or the grass could be greener on other sides or.
- [70:41]
B
But did you get what you need? You know? Cause. And this is the reason why I push on this is that already. I mean, we've just met, but already I could tell you're stoic in that you don't want anyone to feel any bit of shame for you.
- [70:56]
A
Yeah, I hate it. I say to my mom all the time, like, I cannot deal very well with sympathy. Like, I hate people feeling sorry for. It's not my thing. That's why I'm always. Like. I said you when we first got here, like, I'm. I'm. I've always been super comfortable with these open, vulnerable conversations. Because if I sat here like this, and, like, you're like. And how does that feel? Like, I remember I was put through loads of different, like, therapy people. And, like, we have something over here called cams in the uk where it's like, child psychology. Like, there'd be people I'd go see. I hated all of them because they'd speak to you really softly and, like. And they try and take you down this path. And I used to. I mean, I was a troubled kid in it, but I used to intentionally. I'd know the path. They would try to take me down and take them down this road, and then they'd realize that I was having them on, and it. That would be when I exploded, because I can see what you're trying to Do. And you're pissing me off. I don't want to. I don't want to be here, full stop. I've been forced to be here and you don't know me. So, like. Yeah, so I've never been good at dealing with that.
- [71:57]
B
I can see it. I can see it.
- [71:59]
A
Right.
- [71:59]
B
But. But I think the challenge in this is that. Because this is all about you and us being able to step inside of how you were thinking and feeling.
- [72:11]
A
Yeah.
- [72:11]
B
I'm just wondering if you meet your. Like, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. If I'm meeting my father for the first time.
- [72:19]
A
Do I. Do I think I got what I need? What I needed.
- [72:22]
B
What you needed?
- [72:23]
A
Probably not. I definitely didn't feel like that that time. At the time.
- [72:27]
B
Right.
- [72:28]
A
Just. That encounter was more than what I needed. I didn't know it was what I was missing. It's like. The only way I can describe it is, like, as a child, you have this massive hole in your kind of heart or head or, like, weird distant memory that you don't really know and you have no idea what it is. And then it's like, Riley as a child is a big jigsaw puzzle, and there's. There's like, four jigsaw pieces missing. And meeting this man is like, now, in hindsight, it's like one jigsaw puzzle that me as a child, I've duplicated. So I've made him all four. And it's not been put in, but I can see. I can see the piece now.
- [73:13]
B
Yes.
- [73:13]
A
I mean, I'm with you.
- [73:15]
B
I'm with you. So then how does the relationship with just your father, how does that then evolve over time?
- [73:25]
A
Yeah, I mean, it was like, obviously after that point, I don't really know, like, the intervals or what the ages were. A lot of it's a blur. But, like, throughout my childhood, I was told more and more kind of the story. My first impression was always like, he just up and left. Do you know what I mean? Like, he died enough, and he's got. How many kids has he got? 5. So I've got. And so, like, one lives in Brighton, the other ones. One's in Cyprus, another one, now two different Brighton. They're dotted about everywhere. But he was. How do I put it? He was a bit of a naughty guy. Right. Let's say. Yeah, people can connect those dots however they want to connect those dots. I'm not gonna start incriminating or not going into major detail of that, but essentially he had or kind he made a choice. He could have been more of a man and maybe dealt with certain issues or problems that were going on or obtained some kind of money or like, I don't know how he would have fixed it, to be honest. I might give him his dues and that the best solution in terms of the safety for like, my mom and me and my brother, he had to leave the country. So he didn't just leave and walk out my mom and stayed in England. He, he, he'd fled only up until really recently. He doesn't come Brighton a lot because obviously there's a lot of history for him here. But when we did see him and he would take us to like the park or whatever, this would be like, there'll be years in between. It wasn't like, okay, now that you've met your dad, I always, I have a conversation with my mum about this recently. Like, it wasn't. Now that you've met your dad, you're going to see him every other week. He's going to come. I always say to my mum, that probably would have helped a little bit with the feeling of like this constant yearning for attention. Because if anything, I always say meeting him and then disappearing for however long until you decide it's fine you come back was like, what can I, what can I do then? How can I get this attention from this guy? Because also when I'm with him, I'm so idolizing him. It's euphoric, man. And I feel, I believe all majority of young men probably look at their dads that way. No matter what it is your dad does, but especially when you're rolling around Brighton with him and there are certain characters that seem a bit, you know, and they're like, hey, White, do you know what I'm saying? And things. I remember we walked past one chip shop one time and there was a guy, a huge guy, having a mad row with someone. I think that person had owed this huge guy money and he picked him up and put him through. You know, like when you'd like, like a burger shop, they have like the window. He'd thrown him through the window. And so my dad had like, stopped and like moved back and he'd load this window glass everywhere. I'm super on myself. I've never done anything like this. And then the guy who'd done it, so my dad was like, yo, Paul, what you saying? Yeah, how you been? These are my boys. And now I'm like being introduced to this guy. Let's just put geezer through Our window,
- [76:09]
B
and you're looking like, wow, my dad.
- [76:11]
A
This is just mad cool to me. Like, none, obviously, looking back, like, not. Loads of it is great. But also, I'm not, like, resentful. Like, that was wrong. He shouldn't do this. I don't have that viewpoint. Maybe I would, like. I don't know. Yeah, I just. I'm a big believer. Like, everything happens for a reason, and this is my story. I'm not a big believer in, like, resenting what made you into who you are. Do you know what I mean?
- [76:32]
B
But I get it, though. I mean, you're. You viewed your dad as your superhero.
- [76:36]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think most boys do anyway. But this added mystery of, like, well, what is it that he does? And my mom allowed all that. Like, she was never. Your dad's a bad person. She never slated him off. The stories that I eventually got told over time were via him, that were then verified by her, but she never. My mom's a great person. I think she allowed for us to meet him for who he was. And so I. I didn't have any. Like, there's literally zero conception of him.
- [77:03]
B
Yes.
- [77:04]
A
At all.
- [77:04]
B
Yeah.
- [77:05]
A
I mean.
- [77:05]
B
Yes.
- [77:06]
A
Before that point.
- [77:07]
B
Yes. You know, I'm. I'm willing to bet that. But you'll have to. We'll have to ask your mom that she intentionally brought you to that resort.
- [77:15]
A
Yeah, I'm. I. I don't know. I feel like maybe she knew he was in Cyprus. I don't know if he was meant to be there that day, but I'll have to ask her. I. I'm. I'm pretty sure we didn't know he was going to be there.
- [77:26]
B
Yeah.
- [77:27]
A
As far as I'm aware. Because also, my mom, at this point, when she. When I'm 9, 10, she's with her fella. Not at the time. They're together now. So I don't know how that dynamic would have worked or if they'd have planned to do that, knowing that he was there and stuff. He was like. My mom had a boyfriend from. I don't know when they started seeing each other. I remember meeting him for the first time around this time. Like, that's my first kind of early memory of him. But he's in the army, so he was around, like, sometimes he'd be gone for months at a time. If he was there, he was only there for a weekend, and then he had to go back to base. And that was their relationship for, like, only recently since he's been discharged, which is like, 14 years, whatever it is.
- [78:11]
B
That's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible. So, so then the relationship with your father it sounds like was then just like that. It was like he would pop in, be in your life a little bit, pop out and you would wonder where is he?
- [78:27]
A
Yeah. And just like it was this attention that I yearned for so much and then especially because when he was here. This isn't any disrespect on knocking to my brother but like me and my dad get along very well and it probably stems from because I was always told you're so much like him. I played into that and then because of the kind of geezer he is, he's like a proud, yeah like that's my boy, like blah blah blah. And I would imitate him and I would see that he liked that, do you know what I mean? That made him proud. I was like his little prodigy down to everything I in primary school now I've got three birds on the go to know and I'm telling, I know my dad's laughing like obviously he's still kind of saying ah no you shouldn't do that. But I can see he doesn't mean it cause he's smiling like a chest shaped cat while he's saying that I shouldn't do that. Do you know what I mean? Yes.
- [79:17]
B
Do you think your father then ended up having the biggest influence on your life as a young boy?
- [79:24]
A
One million percent even till now. I remember one of the times he calmed down. He is fond of alcohol and other things and so being around that, like when me and my brother are going to stay in a hotel with him. One time I was how old was. I think, I think I was in primary school at year six and my brother was two years older. What year is that? Year eight. And looking back now, I didn't quite know what the other substances were. I can see what it was on now, do you know what I'm saying? But he'd had a few and then done that and we were in this hotel in Brighton Station, the Ibis Hotel and he was back and forth and at the bar and we would stay in, in the hotel room while he was down there drinking, which is obviously unfortunate because we don't get to spend loads of time with him, do you know what I'm saying? So like then he's come back up and where he's drunk and he's got a lot of health problems due to lifestyle choices and stuff and so he was in a really bad way and allegedly at the Time. That's funny as well, because sometimes he exaggerates or again, he does things to put on a show and, like, wear it as a cape. But he had come in and was all over the place and then fell to the floor. And then as far as me and my brother were aware, whether he was faking it or not, I don't know. But his heart stopped and he wasn't breathing.
- [80:47]
B
Oh, wow.
- [80:48]
A
And so my brother. I remember my brother sobbing his eyes out. I remember being super frozen, like, not crying, not even really, like, sad. And I remember, like, Obviously I'm. I'm 12, so I'm, like, attempting to do some form of CPR and, like, get him up and, like, slapping his face and, like, shaking him. And then, like, he, like, sat up and I took a breath and was like, oh, like, what happened? And he was like, again. You know when someone's drunk and they're like, they're talking about things that, like, they've obviously had a conversation in their head. Like, it's not really making sense to me what he's saying. So that's scary as well, because you just don't even know if you're talking to me or, like, again, now I just know he was super inebriated. Do you know what I mean? And then, like, I remember trying to, like, roll him over or whatever. And then I remember the next day, he was fine. And that was kind of the start of like, oh, you know, you might not. He would say to my brother in front of me, like, you might not see me for a bit, like, because Riley's gonna obviously explain to him, mom what happened. And then. Then I'll be like, no, no, no, I'm not. And he's like, no, you are, and it's fine. And then my brother would be like, no, like, don't, like, because everyone not gonn. There was another time.
- [82:00]
B
So then in that moment, then you had to decide if you're going to keep that.
- [82:03]
A
Yeah, I didn't tell my mom that. I think I only told my mom that, like, a few years ago.
- [82:06]
B
Wow. So. So you held that to. To protect your father?
- [82:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that.
- [82:10]
B
That's. And it seems like that was the relationship. You protected him.
- [82:13]
A
Yeah, and my mama said that to me all the time. I remember there's a lot of times when I was a teenager where she used to be like, you know, he's your dad, and not the other way around. Yeah. And I. And I'd get annoyed because also my whole thing, like, I had such a Strong relationship with my mom. When I come into, like, late primary school and a teenager, it becomes very common for someone to, you know, like your mom. And none of that ever offended me. But if anybody spoke about my old man on any level, especially now that, like, now that I'm a teenager, 13, 14, any of my uncles do it, anyone around me within close family and people that know him, like, no, no one can't cut off Superman to me. Like, especially because now in my head, I'm his little mini me. Do you know what I mean? So we are one, do you know what I mean? And our relationship, it's funny coming away from that a little bit. Like, I say it all in hindsight now as if I don't still do it, but I catch myself doing it all the time. It's so second nature. Do you know what I mean?
- [83:10]
B
Yes. Even beyond you being his mini me, it seems like you saw yourself through him.
- [83:17]
A
Yeah, it was weird. It was like. I don't know how to explain, explain it of, like when everybody said to me all these characteristics that I do have that I genuinely did have before I met him, it was weird to meet a guy that I agreed. I was so much like. And so I think there was 50, like, this guy is exactly like me. And then the other 50 is like, I probably wasn't exactly like him, but I filled in the gaps of the bits that I wasn't like. I made myself like him.
- [83:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, and then, I mean, already now. I mean, you know what a father's love is now for sure.
- [83:52]
A
Yeah.
- [83:53]
B
When you look back at the behavior, at least that your father exhibited in that early time, do you feel like he showed you love?
- [84:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think this is where. Not like, we'll disagree because I'm sure you don't necessarily have an opinion on it, but I think love comes in all different shapes and sizes and formats. And one thing I will always say about my old man, not just me and my brother, all of his kids, even the ones that maybe he hasn't been allowed to see or like, has less of a relationship with because they're not on it or whatever, he loves his kids and he is a problematic person with his own going on. But I don't believe, like, the same way I have been problematic and hurt people or whatever, that doesn't mean that I didn't love that person or do you know what I'm saying? It's like I just. Because of whatever I had going on, I had pretty shitty ways of showing it sometimes or like I wasn't showing it sometimes, but it didn't mean that I didn't hold that in my heart. And this is why I don't hold anything in bad regard, for better or for worse. It's like that version of myself that I developed is rd. Like that, hey, loud in front of a bunch of characters that I've never met and owning the room and walking into places and like I own the place. And like, yes, I always had it in me. And I believe, like, like, like I was told, you know, you're so much like your dad and blah, blah, from that character before I met him. So I had it in me before I'd met him, but I still believe it comes from him. And then the extra bits that I added on top by trying to emulate him. Do you know what I mean?
- [85:37]
B
That's insightful, man. And now, you know what's interesting is I see that because it's interesting. I think I've watched now every video that you've put out. I've watched everything. And to me, the person that I've seen in those videos is exactly who you just described. That's probably your dad.
- [85:59]
A
Yeah. It's a show like, and don't get. It's not a million miles away from me.
- [86:03]
B
Right.
- [86:03]
A
Like, Right. It's still.
- [86:05]
B
It's like, it's like just almost. Can I say exaggerated?
- [86:09]
A
Exaggerated, yeah, 100%. That's like the version of show business I always remember growing up was that you put on a show. Do you know what I mean? Like, same like I'll use Robbie Williams as an example. Like, amazing performer. Like he doesn't walk around in his day to day life like, I am Robbie Williams. This is my ass. That would be super strange, you know?
- [86:30]
B
Right, right. That'd be crazy.
- [86:31]
A
Yeah, that would be wild. So obviously it's an exaggerated art form that I eventually, for better or for worse, I started buying into. I was buying what I was selling at some point. And I don't want him to be hurt by this because he knows I love him dearly. And our relationship is now changing. Where the playing field. There was a couple moments where the playing field became level. And one of the times was like a Father's Day. He was supposed to have come down and I'm with my partner and her sisters and her dad's come and there's been three times that he was meant to come and meet my partner's dad. And for whatever reasons he's got himself into a pickle and not Come. And this had happened again, this time on Father's Day. Father's Day is a tough day for him because he lost his dad when he was 15 and then was homeless after that. And so I'm aware of that. And we now have a rule where it's like, let's just leave Father's Day because it's a set up for failure a little bit. But that was one of the first times I I proper. I'd had a go at him. And I was like, you're just. And I was like, you're a liar. Like, just own it. Just say you went out and got pissed or like, don't. Like, don't try a bullshit. I was like, unfortunately for you, I am so like you. I know every single trick up your sleeve. I know all the language. I know the bravado. I know the man behind the mask, because I am that same man behind that mask kind of thing. And it was. It was good for our relationship. Like, he. He's never had anybody in his life, I don't believe speak to him like that. And it was like, it was aggressive from my front. And he's. He's a guy that probably doesn't take bad off like that. Do you know what I mean? So.
- [88:18]
B
But you were able to stand up to him.
- [88:22]
A
Yeah. And it was anger. It was anger for my brother and him being confused and where is he? And, like, it just filled me with rage. And so that was one of the first times that veal were kind of important and that it started to unwrap this. And I still idolize him. It's still something that sometimes I find myself doing by accident. Sometimes I do it on purpose because he has so many great qualities. And I know some people might watch this and have an opinion of his character, and I don't want it to seem like he is just this awful, bad person because he's not. He loves his kids and he's done so much for me, and he's always supported my career. Even in tunes where I'm slagging him off, he's the first person to share it on Facebook and he knows it's my story to tell. Like, he's not like, well, you can't say this, or like, he's not. You know what I'm saying? So I just want to put that out there.
- [89:12]
B
Okay, that's fair.
- [89:13]
A
But yeah, it started to unveil this kind of pedestal and revealed more to me about myself than him, if anything.
- [89:22]
B
And you made this realization when I
- [89:24]
A
think it slowly Happened over time. So we have that moment. That wasn't the start, but that's a key moment. I remember the first time, like standing up against him. I remember my mum being proud of me as well and texting me saying, but is this well done?
- [89:35]
B
Just within the last, what, two years?
- [89:36]
A
Two years? Yeah. This is very recent.
- [89:38]
B
So, you know what's so interesting is. So I always look at identity is the story that we tell about ourselves. Right. And normally when I say who are you? What I'm looking for people to say is tell me the story that you tell about yourself.
- [89:54]
A
Yeah.
- [89:55]
B
And it feels like you began to truly know your identity about two years ago.
- [90:03]
A
Literally. It's wild. And I'd felt a change in how I would be absorbed by those stories before. He's the coolest thing since sliced bread. And obviously he's still a cool guy. I still love him. But from being with my partner and having this new perspective, it's like I almost had sympathy for him for the first time, which is something that I've always hated feeling for people and for myself. And what I saw was someone who had basically done the same thing as I had, but through whatever he has dealt with him losing his dad when he was young and being kicked out by his mum and having to grow up and become an adult like so many, obviously in a very different world because it's music and fame and whatever. But it's like humanized him even more but now on a. On a sympathy level. And it was the first time in my life and it was quite. I remember I was actually quite not upset by it. It was a weird feeling of like almost guilt because that cape had been taken off. I'm saying like the mask had been. The curtain had been pulled a little bit. And I know that he could feel it as well. He could see. Oh, I could see in his eyes that he could see me. This story, it was just. It was just a not like a regular like bullshit, funny mad thing that happened when it's. It's always about girls and someone being cheated on and someone being hurt and a load of drugs being taken and like some. Some mad story that has some Snatch Guy Ritchie themed ending, I'm saying.
- [91:45]
B
Right.
- [91:47]
A
And that was a super surreal moment for me because it had happened without me realizing. And so when I then went back to my partner, Osh, and kind of explain this feeling. So, yeah, it was just quite a profound moment for me.
- [92:07]
B
That's a life changing moment.
- [92:08]
A
Yeah. Like my whole life had just been turned on its head.
- [92:13]
B
Hey there. We have conversations just like this one every week, so if you haven't already hit, subscribe and I'll see you for the next one. The. The one area that I know that we haven't talked about is that you are now independent. You're an independent artist.
- [92:31]
A
Yes.
- [92:32]
B
And it seems like you've consciously made this decision to be an independent artist.
- [92:36]
A
Yeah.
- [92:36]
B
What's. What's the reason for that?
- [92:38]
A
I. I knew that the love. Not the love, because I don't want to slate the label that I was with because I. They're all amazing people and obviously they've all got their own jobs to look after, but just. Tides change in the industry. Everybody has to move at those times. A RS have got to maintain their jobs. It's a really tough industry where, like, if you are not meeting a certain quota of delivering a certain amount of records and a couple of my records haven't connected. They have. They can't just. They can't. I have to die on this hill because I'm rd. But everybody and their mum in the building doesn't have to die on the hill with me because they've got a family to feel. And I know that now, even though I was. I'll probably. If you'd have. If you'd asked me at the time, I probably would have slagged them all off, but. And so all of that combined with, like, again, all of this stuff that I hadn't really dealt with. I'm going three days on the trot and my mum's having to film, like, the States I'm in and to show, like. I'm like. I mean, we've got like a bar or had a bar in the house that we're no longer at. But, like, I'd be talking to myself or talking to the walls or I'm on all sorts of drugs now. And especially when I found and dove into ketamine, that was the numbing agent. And so my thing with that was never, like, I would do a little bit because some people do it to get. They call it wonky or, like, they're a bit. I. Mine was. It was go, go all the way. It was like buying 7 grams at a time. And then it started, like, constantly doing it while I'm out, which is a terrible look because you can see far easier when someone's on something like that. That rather than the other, because you can't walk, you can't talk, your legs go. So then there are videos like that coming out of me and then that Gets worse and then what it stops being is like I'm going out for a little bit and kind of fronting it as like yeah, I want to go out and get lit but I'm only out for a few hours now and going straight back home and carrying on for days. At home? Yeah, yeah, at home. On my own in my days. For days. Yeah, yeah. In my bedroom at home. Like I'd have two bottles of rum at, by my bedside table at night. This is in, in the, in my darkest moments, two bottles of rum, a 3,3 5 of of packet and at least 7 grams of ketamine. And just on my own and what,
- [94:56]
B
you know, I mean I'm surprised you didn't die.
- [94:59]
A
It's wild from that.
- [95:00]
B
Yeah.
- [95:00]
A
And there's just so many times where my mom's like come in the room or come into wherever I'm at terrified or just super worried about me. The combination of all of that happening and my, my older brother going into psychosis, that was the straw that broke the donkey's back.
- [95:20]
B
How does that change you then?
- [95:23]
A
It. I'm filled with this super guilt because not only have I been distant from him because we're on different paths in life, but I've also had thoughts where I'd be like, well you know, I could try and make the relationship bond a bit better. I could see him more, I could bring him to shows, I could bring him to studio. I bring my mates to studio. Like I love my brother, we get along so why don't I? And then obviously due to the path he had taken and whatever I've gone on with him, that's happened right underneath my nose. We live in the same house together. Like how, how have I missed this? How's it got to that point where he's, he's, he's taken whatever he's taken and obviously it's put him into a drug induced psychosis. And like I remember he'd. My mom had said it to me and he had come home. I don't know if you've ever seen someone when they're like that but like I, I haven't. It's terrifying. Like, didn't look like him, his eyes weren't there. He wasn't making sense. He was jitter in. He's never really been the same since and he still has, it's complicated. Like he has sometimes he's good and even when he's good he's still not the same as what he used to be. And when he's having an episode or whatever. It's tough and it's like I would. I now have to deal with the fact that I will. My brother probably won't be the same again. And I don't know what the source or the reason was as to why he felt he had to take or do whatever it was he was doing and taking that led to him being like that or getting into that state. And if I could turn back time and not have fame but, and, and music but have my brother be normal or not normal. That sounds like a bad way to put it. But like just have that relationship that I had once with my brother, I would. You know what I'm saying?
- [97:34]
B
I believe you would. Yeah, yeah. I, I didn't realize that they gave me chills with these talking about the guilt that you have.
- [97:44]
A
Yeah. And it was something I had even before the psychosis and something that I battled with all the time. Yeah, yeah. It's tough.
- [97:52]
B
Yeah. That's a lot of weight to carry. And what I also reflect on is how you described your brother as looking up to you. He's your older brother but you were the big brother in essence. How is your mother managing her two boys? Because her two boys are still with her. You know they're showing up differently now. But how does she parent you both today.
- [98:31]
A
It's difficult. So with me and my brother both have a very different view of my mum and me and my brother have fallen out over it quite a few times throughout our lives. Again this makes me sad to say their relationship is difficult now just looking from the outside in because he's again a little bit before and since the scenario and since the psychosis. Not scenario but he's very secluded, doesn't really want to talk a lot and he has his feelings about my mom or like how things were done and so she obviously still checks on him. I would definitely go far enough to say it's probably quite a one sided relationship from my mom's side, you know and that doesn't mean he doesn't. I know he loves her. Do you know what I mean?
- [99:28]
B
Yes. Bus.
- [99:29]
A
I think there's just, there's some resentment held from him and I think some of it is due to like his brain has obviously very recently been rewired due to whatever substances and like it's, it's, it's too difficult to try and not only communicate with him just on a day to day level. How are you, you know, what have you eaten today? To then try and dive into to all that. Like there's a Time and place for it. And at this moment in our lives, it's not now, so.
- [100:00]
B
But I tell you what. I mean, that is a difficult situation, and that's a lot for all of you to be going through in this very moment. And one is. I mean, I definitely appreciate the transparency. I think it gives us a view as to what you are dealing with, what you are managing, what's top of mind for you. And my wish is that your brother is able to move to a place where you both can feel the love that I know that you have for each other. And he and your mother are able to move to a place where they can feel the love that I know that they have for each other. Because it's been the three of you since the beginning.
- [100:48]
A
From Dai Do.
- [100:49]
B
So then how do you. I mean, now I have a totally. I have a totally new perspective on you. But now as you've moved into fatherhood, I can see now how this completely reshapes how you show up, you know, not only as a father, but as a man in society.
- [101:12]
A
100%. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- [101:15]
B
I mean, can we talk about fatherhood?
- [101:18]
A
Yeah. I think before we talk about that, we kind of have to go into me and my partner. I think we have to do me and my partner first. Okay.
- [101:28]
B
You know, Shen.
- [101:29]
A
Yeah. Me and Osh.
- [101:30]
B
Okay.
- [101:31]
A
Because like you say, like this reshaping my walk, how I am and how I view the world. It starts with her. And I mean, I'm sure you saw. Maybe you didn't. But on my post, where I was like, my whole life, even though I've glamorized and idolized my dad, there's always been a part of me that's very aware that is not how you father or parent someone.
- [101:55]
B
Yes.
- [101:55]
A
And so on that.
- [101:57]
B
Is this where you wrote, for a long time, my past and my trauma was my identity?
- [102:02]
A
Yes.
- [102:03]
B
Can I read this?
- [102:04]
A
Yeah.
- [102:04]
B
It's cool. Yeah. This is profound. So you wrote this on IG For a long time, my past and my trauma was my identity. I held onto it as tight as I could, fighting anyone and anything that tried to change me, hurting people in the process. And this is to your child.
- [102:20]
A
Letter to my daughter. Yeah.
- [102:21]
B
You wrote, I promise you will never know the feeling of wondering who your dad is, where he is, or if he loves you enough. I'll show you every single day. Yeah.
- [102:33]
A
100%.
- [102:34]
B
I believe it.
- [102:35]
A
I mean, my whole heart.
- [102:36]
B
Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. So it's ocean.
- [102:41]
A
Yeah.
- [102:42]
B
Who put you on this path?
- [102:44]
A
Yeah. Cause like I was saying, Like, I was always. I've always been like, I'm never having kids. I don't want to be a dad. I've always been. I've like basked in the fact that I am this bad person.
- [102:58]
B
And is it that you also. So you didn't want to be a dad? Did you also not want a committed relationship?
- [103:05]
A
It wasn't that I didn't want it. I didn't really think I was capable. Like, I've never been able to hold down. What's the word? What? It's monogamous.
- [103:15]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [103:16]
A
That's the singular one, right, Exactly.
- [103:18]
B
Monogamy.
- [103:18]
A
Monogamous relationship. And even like, I can care for someone, but it was always like, once you were out of sight, you are out of mind. Like, I've. I've hurt people. You know what I'm saying? I'm very aware of that and sounds horrible. For a long time I was also proud of that because that's who my dad was. He was the top narcissist and that was super cool. Do you know what I mean? Like, just like, even for a reference, he. His nickname for me is Asmodeus. Asmodeus is the son of the devil somewhere in some kind of mythology. And that's like. It's. That's our banner, that's our relationship. But that's. That's. That's been his nickname for me throughout all my teenage years as well. And I loved that that was. Again, it's like, yeah, like we're bad. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was cool to not give a shit about no one or anything. And it's so. It's. I look at it and it's kind of strange because my mom is so the opposite. She is like the most loving, open person all. My mum was like the mum to all my friends growing up.
- [104:30]
B
So, yeah, so ocean. She was aware of all this.
- [104:34]
A
Yeah. So she'd been a friend for a long time and kind of saw all the different states that I've been in throughout majority of my career. The more I got to know her as a friend and then as our relationship developed, she had been through so much and wore it very, very differently to how I wore it and her outlook on why she should wear it differently. I had this newfound perspective of like, just through falling in love with her and not just falling in love with her, but falling in love with her outlook on life. It was probably one of the only ways I could have possibly have been changed because she didn't try and install it into me in any way. It was just the same way, like, we talked about my mum's mentality and how watching her do whatever she wanted to do made me believe I could do whatever I wanted to do. It was like watching my partner and how she carries and dealt with all that and how she treats people, the kind of person she is. I had said in that post, she has a very special kind of light, like, about her, like, her energy. And so, yeah, when we've started speaking and like, when we first, like, dated or, like, gave it a go in that realm rather than just being friends, I was like, trust me, you don't want to get wrapped. Just try and do, like the whole swagger. Like, I'm. I'm so messed up, like, actually kind of cringes me out when I'm saying that out loud now, like. And she was very like, yeah, cool. Like, you know, actually when now we speak about it, she's like, I knew you were just. You'd had such a warped perception of yourself. And then slowly, over time, and it didn't happen overnight and we've had our ups and downs because it's complicated, as I'm sure you know. Love is like. I found myself healing through her, which might sound a little bit codependent because it's not necessarily her job, do you know what I'm saying? But it was like this new outlook,
- [106:38]
B
did that also impact your perception of fatherhood?
- [106:41]
A
Yeah, for so long, even while we were still in a relationship. It's something I've made clear to her. Obviously I'm at the age where that's things you discuss quite early in the relationship. And I'd said, I don't want kids. And Heron asked why. I was like, cause I'll be a shit dad. I don't know how to be a good dad. I was aware that this father, some relationship wasn't normal. And I was like, well, that's all I know, but I also don't want to pass that on down. And her answer was always like, that's why you're gonna be the best at. And then we had a moment that changed all of that for me. We had an atopic pregnancy before this pregnancy. She was excited. And so if I'm honest, at the time, I didn't think I wanted it, but I was up for it because she was up for it.
- [107:25]
B
Let me just. For anyone who doesn't know, because I was not familiar with an ectopic pregnancy. So this occurs when a fertilized egg implants and Grows outside the main cavity of the uterus. It's most commonly, and this is about 97% of cases in the fallopian tube, so known as a tubal pregnancy. It is unfortunately a non viable pregnancy that cannot proceed normally and poses a life threatening risk to the parent if not treated.
- [107:56]
A
Yes. She kept saying, like, I know something's wrong, like I'm in a lot of pain. This is now eight weeks in. And so, yeah, we've done a few private scans and basically they can't find it. So they're like, well, the, it must be a topic because we can't see the little egg or whatever. And obviously she was distraught because not only did she really want this baby, but she was also kind of aware that I wasn't quite ready. What it done for me that I hadn't let her know at the time was revealed to me that I was ready. Because even though I had all those worries, the second I found out it wasn't happening, my heart was broken as well. And I'd said this, it was actually a conversation I'd have with my dad because I'd spoke to him and said, you know, I ain't ready for all this. I'm not ready to hang the gloves up yet. I'm like the lifestyle and all this kind of stuff and da, da, da, da. And then I said like, yeah, I feel like shit. And I was. That there actually was a part of me that was more excited than I thought. I was just so used to pretending like I don't want to evolve in life and I want to be this version of myself that I told myself, nah, I don't want kids and I'm this version of them. And then like, obviously something like that will strip any kind of defense mechanism or mask, especially seeing my partner so upset. And so, yeah, that had revealed that to me and I'd said that to
- [109:26]
B
her and just like that, you're a dad?
- [109:30]
A
No. Well, now I am.
- [109:32]
B
Oh yeah. I mean, but now, I mean, yeah,
- [109:34]
A
yeah, Obviously it was a process that again, I didn't. I've said to you, look, I stopped. I haven't drunk or I haven't been drunk. I had a beer the other day for the first time or watching a football and just had one, which is a moment for me, do you know what I mean? But I haven't been drunk since January. Obviously she was, she's been pregnant since August. So there was still ups and downs and still a process for me to go through, but I was able to again make be Aware of myself and heal a little bit. And like I said, this is all very, like, raw. It's all so recent. So I'm not sitting here pretending like, no, no. I am this complete man. No, no.
- [110:16]
B
I can see it. You're still. You're still in the battle.
- [110:19]
A
Yeah, 100%, yeah.
- [110:20]
B
You're still in the battle. Which I applaud you for coming on to talk about being in the battle. I think we have so many guests that come on and reflect. This happened to me 10 years ago. This happened to me five years ago. You're saying this is happening to me now?
- [110:38]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [110:39]
B
I have a letter here. I'd like to read it to you if I could, and then I'm going to give it to you afterwards. All right. Ready?
- [110:47]
A
Yeah.
- [110:48]
B
To my Rye. Watching you become a father has been one of the most beautiful things I've ever had the privilege of experiencing. For someone who once thought they never wanted children, you've stepped into the role in a way that feels completely natural, like you were always meant for it. Our baby girl is so lucky to have you as her role model. You are more talented and capable than you give yourself credit for. And somehow you continue to amaze me more every single day. I see how much you carry on your shoulders, the pressure you face, and yet you still show up for us without hesitation. I truly don't know what we would do without you. I don't think you fully realize the impact that you've had on my life, the way you've brought light into it when I needed it most. For that, I will always be grateful. You always remind me how strong I am and how well I carry my trauma. We've said this, but you forget to remind yourself of the same. You've carried your own through so much in ways most people wouldn't be able to. There have been times when others would have given up after being knocked down again and again, and it's been hard to watch, but you've pushed through it every single time. And you come out the other side with strength and positivity. I don't think it's ever been easy for you. That one hits hard. Yeah. I don't think it's ever been easy for you, handling success and strong opinions from such a young age while also dealing with your own personal battles behind closed doors, all while providing for and caring for your family. When I look at where you are now and the person you've become, it's truly something that I admire and I'm so proud of You. I'm so excited to do parenthood with you, to build a life full of memories as a family. And I feel incredibly lucky to have chosen such an amazing father for my children. Children, we've been through so much and we faced everything as a team and we've come out even stronger. Our little family is everything because of you. We love you so much. Always your girls. You know who wrote that?
- [113:17]
A
I do know who wrote that. You tried to get me. I nearly went just then.
- [113:21]
B
No, I tell you, I think letters are some of the. Of the most incredible instruments that we have. And I'm going to give this one to you. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm curious, what did you think of that letter?
- [113:38]
A
I mean, it's always nice to hear. And again, she always gives me a new perspective because I do always. I tell her constantly. I especially remind her when she needs to be reminded of how strong she is. And I always kind of give her the kudos of, like, I am better because of how you wear your trauma now. And it's not something that I ever think about that, like, in turn of that I'm also wearing mine better. And yeah, I'm a little bit lost for words because that's amazing to hear.
- [114:13]
B
No, I love it. I love it. So then, on that note, I've got the final question for you. Everyone gets it.
- [114:19]
A
Yes.
- [114:20]
B
If you reflect back on all of the conversations you've had throughout your life, which one stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with and what did you learn?
- [114:33]
A
That's a difficult question. One that comes to mind is a conversation I had with my mom when I said, even as a. And it, like, I think about now, it makes me laugh because it was quite a strong conversation to have with a child who just could have been saying something on a whim where I was like, I want to be famous or I want to be a rapper, I want to be a musician. And a lot of parents would say, oh, that's amazing. I'm so happy you have that goal, but you need to have a backup plan or, you know, that's a really hard thing to achieve. And I'm so happy you've got those aspirations. But. And it'll be a but. And the conversation with my mom was. And this, this exact phrase was, well, then you better fucking give it your all. Like. And we had. We went further into that conversation again. I'm like, I come up like, pretty young, I think either late primary school or early secondary school. And that was like a realization moment for Me of the. One of the first times of my mum's mentality and how she tackles and views the world. And I felt like it gave me a bit of power because I'd realized it. It was like my mom had passed down this power onto me and like, I knew I was fucking. I was capable of it. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [115:54]
B
Yeah. You know, before you came in, I knew you as the rapper, the white rapper from Brighton. You know what I mean?
- [116:04]
A
How do you feel in this way? Did you. I mean, I'm sure it's not with you expected.
- [116:07]
B
No, no, not at all. Not at all. And I'm definitely walking away. Highly impressed with your maturity, highly impressed with your ability to reflect and pull lessons. Very excited about your journey as a father. You seem to be fully equipped to knock this out the park.
- [116:33]
A
I hope so.
- [116:35]
B
Yeah, I mean, you definitely do. But most importantly is I love that you have gone on a journey to figure out your identity and you know precisely who you are right now. And I think you like who you are becoming.
- [116:53]
A
That's a great way to put it. Like, it's the first time in my life where I would introduce myself to someone and I. I was proud of who I was, or I thought I was proud of who I was when I was bad, but it wasn't really pride. It was all just a fun and really. I just didn't love myself. And it's the first time I love myself in a. In a different way. And I'm. If I was to introduce myself to someone, say, like, I'm proud of the man I am. Whereas before it was like, it was pretend pride, really. It was just all kind of ego. And I wasn't. I knew that I wasn't very behaving in the way that I knew I could. So.
- [117:29]
B
Yeah, yeah, no, it's good, it's good. And I was gonna say, you know, I see now it's really cool. Cause I met rd, obviously, but, you know, I know Smiley Riley.
- [117:40]
A
You see the smile when I was reading the letter. I'm like a Cheshire cat. I can't wipe it off.
- [117:44]
B
I know Smiley Riley. This is cool.
- [117:46]
A
Yeah, you do.
- [117:48]
B
But, yeah, this, honestly, this, this, this. This has been an honor, I think.
- [117:52]
A
And likewise, I feel the same.
- [117:54]
B
So, yeah, yeah, it's. It, it is going to change, I think, a lot of perspectives and enlighten many, many people, for sure. Thank you.
- [118:04]
A
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [118:06]
B
Yeah. Riley Davies, rd. Having him sit here today, I see how layered he is and how much he's had to manage, but more importantly, how much weight he still carries with him. Near death experience, addiction, the fractured relationship with his father, his challenges with a music industry. I mean, there's so much to his story. It's hard to believe that he's only 23. The advice that his mother gave is something that I think is really good advice. So that was at the early age. She said, look, if that's what you want to do, then you better get to work. Don't mess around. And it's interesting for me because it's the same conversation I'm having with my oldest son right now where he's giving me different ideas of what he wants to do. And part of me is saying, oh, well, watch out for this or watch out. But the other part is what she said is, we'll just get to work. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised, quite possibly shocked at what RD had to say. But when you listen to his entire journey, it's very understandable why he has landed at the place he's in today.
- [119:39]
A
Absolutely adore foreplay. I think it's brilliant. I feel sad. People who don't. But then that became a thing, you know that, like, I was somebody who went down on girls.
- [119:47]
B
So you became almost shamed for going down.
- [119:50]
A
Yeah.
- [119:56]
B
17. You do coke for the first time.
- [119:58]
A
Yes. You are removing pain you didn't realize you had. And my last memory was I was trying to escape something.
- [120:04]
B
What were you trying to escape?
- [120:06]
A
My therapist would be buzzing that you're
- [120:07]
B
asking me these questions. If there's any question that feels off, you just say, paul, let's not go there.
- [120:13]
A
I'd be impressed if you found somewhere.
- [120:14]
B
Wow. Okay.
- [120:16]
A
There was also a point where I was very close to a suicide. My mom rung me and I was like, sometimes I feel like I just don't want to be here knowing that, like, I'd put my mum in a position where she could think about losing her son, like, while she was alive. My dream throughout my whole life was for my mom to be happy.
- [120:32]
B
Let's get to then. Jade.
- [120:34]
A
Jade tells me she loves me all the time. And I love it. I never knew I could feel like this. She's my superstar and I'm her superstar.
- [120:43]
B
Do you believe that you will marry Jade? We need to talk. Yeah.
- [120:47]
A
Yeah, we do.