Jo Frost On The Rise And Fall Of Supernanny

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Jo Frost On The Rise And Fall Of Supernanny"

We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson | Episode Date: Feb 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply candid and reflective episode, Paul C. Brunson hosts renowned childcare expert and TV personality Jo Frost, famously known as "Supernanny." They engage in an open conversation about the reality behind Supernanny’s global success, the personal sacrifices and pressures Jo faced, the changing landscape of parenting and reality TV, and her steadfast commitment to children's well-being. Together, they examine the meaning of authority and vulnerability in parenting, public critique, the impact of fame, and the evolving expectations for modern families—all rooted in sincerity, care, and Jo’s direct, nuanced wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Becoming the Supernanny (02:08–13:35)

• Origin Story:
  • Jo began working with children as a teenager and spent nearly two decades immersed in practical family support before TV.
  • Responded to a magazine ad seeking experienced childcare professionals, thinking it was for giving advice, not TV.
• First Audition / Authenticity:
  • Assisted her first filmed family with “no-nonsense” directness; her genuine approach and transformative impact led to her selection.
• Quote:
  • "That was the difference. And she just looked over at me and she went, I know. You know, carry on. Like, I did that." (10:19, Jo Frost)

2. The Transition to Television & Format Creation (11:41–15:18)

• How TV Producers Tried to Shape the Show:
  • Producers pushed for certain lines and a formal “nanny suit”; Jo resisted anything inauthentic or artificial.
  • She credits executive producer Amanda Murphy for supporting her vision and “letting her do her thing.”
• International Success:
  • Supernanny became a multi-national franchise, airing in over 149 territories.

3. Life Experience vs. Credentials (05:03–06:10)

• On Expertise:
  • Jo addresses skepticism over her not being a psychologist or doctor:
    • "My methods, my teachings are in colleges, universities...so again, it is just as valid to have life experience."
    • Emphasizes the balance: knowing when to defer to other professionals.

4. Impact and Responsibility of Fame (16:44–19:38)

• Cultural Reach:
  • The show’s advice is still watched globally for both entertainment and education.
  • Jo reflects on the massive audience response after the show’s initial airing.
• The Weight of Responsibility:
  • "Everybody is hanging on to every word you say. That’s a hell of a responsibility." (20:49, Jo Frost)

5. Integrity vs. TV Pressure (20:02–24:35)

• Navigating Network Demands:
  • Persistent pushback against scripted “lines” and production shortcuts; always prioritized the welfare of filmed families.
• Grit and Emotional Toll:
  • Jo shares emotionally draining moments, including sobbing after intense filming days, recognizing vulnerability as part of effective help.
• Quote:
  • "When you see children hurting, that hurts my heart...When the children are almost—their spirits are almost crushed because of how the parents are raising them." (25:48, Jo Frost)

6. Duty of Care & Agency (38:38–42:33)

• On Casting and Authenticity:
  • Insisted on casting approval—a contractual deal-breaker—to ensure families truly sought help.
  • "I was the duty of care officer. I made sure that every individual and as a family, as a whole, that boundary was there." (41:36, Jo Frost)
• Standing Ground:
  • Shares stories of conflict with producers and refusing to compromise integrity, continuing her work even if cameras stopped rolling.

7. Gender, Power, and Leadership in TV (42:38–44:13)

• On Being "Difficult":
  • Jo discusses how unapologetic women are labeled as “difficult” and advocates for empowering women in creative leadership roles.

8. Coping with Public Criticism (47:05–50:38)

• Handling Critique:
  • "Everyone's entitled to their opinion...I just know the work I'm doing with the family and the difference that that's making, and that's what matters." (47:21, Jo Frost)
  • Emphasis on developing inner confidence rather than seeking external validation.

9. Parenting Philosophies and Screen Time (57:26–66:49)

• Avoiding Screens for Children:
  • Strong warning against early exposure to screens and performative parenting.
  • "When you choose to put a phone in your 6 month...what you are doing is prohibiting their development." (58:10, Jo Frost)
• Timeouts and Discipline:
  • Advocates for modified, emotionally-intelligent “timeouts”—a calm reset, not punishment or abandonment.
  • Steps to effective discipline involve clarity, warnings, eye-level communication, and boundaries rooted in love and safety.

10. On Not Having Children Herself (71:33–72:37)

• Addressing Skepticism:
  • "Does a doctor need to have cancer to treat cancer?...I feel I have millions [of children]." (71:33, Jo Frost)
• Children as a Collective Responsibility:
  • Every adult has the duty to ensure all children are protected and nurtured.

11. Differences in UK vs. US Discipline (75:23–79:21)

• Cultural Nuances & Challenges:
  • Observes greater religious influence in American parenting; voices support for core family values free from political co-optation.
  • Touches on gun violence, racism, and parental anxiety as profound stressors in the US.

12. The Crucial Role of Conversation (82:15–84:32)

• Encouragement to Talk:
  • Open, difficult dialogue within families is essential for growth, healing, and resilience.
  • "We need to sit around a table...We need to talk about our kids. We need to talk about the decisions we're going to make..." (82:15, Jo Frost)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Authenticity in Media:

  • “Let me. I'll just do my job. Right. And you just film it. You just follow me.” (13:04, Jo Frost)

• On Emotional Costs:

  • “You realize the sensibility and the importance because everybody is hanging on to every word you say. That's a hell of a responsibility.” (20:49, Jo Frost)

• On Sacrifice and Integrity:

  • “It came at the cost of meaning that every day I would have to explain over and over again why the integrity of my decisions would benefit the family.” (34:16, Jo Frost)

• On Handling Challenging Moments:

  • Jo recounts comforting a dying child who was a fan:
    • "He said this to me...‘When I die, will my mummy be there? Will she be there to meet me?’...I just paused for a moment and said, ‘Chase...like when you used to go to school...your mummy's gonna be there. Right there...’” (27:00–28:42, Jo Frost)

• On Parenting & Screen Time:

  • "What do you think parents were doing before 2010? It's okay for children to cry, it's okay for children to be unhappy." (58:10, Jo Frost)
  • "Performative parenting...it's all an act so you can earn money, you know, from social media. What do you think that's doing to your children?" (61:28, Jo Frost)

• On Vulnerability and Connection:

  • "Sometimes we can't find words for the depth of what our heart feels at times. Sometimes we just can't. But is the energy there that that other person can feel?" (82:55, Jo Frost)

• On Family as Community:

  • "Children just highlight what a couple need to work on right within themselves in that marriage so that they can get it right for their children." (55:18, Jo Frost)

• On Not Fixing, But Guiding:

  • "I don't fix a family. I guide a family. I educate a family and hope that what I'm giving them is enough..." (37:23, Jo Frost)

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Structured Q&A & Practical Takeaways

On Regrets About Supernanny:

• "No, absolutely not...I was a big part of that success." (57:00–57:15, Jo Frost)

On Advice for Screen Time:

• Parents need to take ownership; early, excessive screen use inhibits child development. Set boundaries, have open discussions about tech usage, and resist societal pressure to comply with harmful trends.

On Physical Discipline:

• "I would like the UK to ban spanking, smacking children...We know the evidence out there...the damage that can cause the relationship." (70:07–71:17, Jo Frost)

On Disciplinary Techniques (Timeouts):

• Calmly explain boundaries and offer clear warnings; physical presence and emotional safety are crucial; practice, not punishment, creates learning.

On “Do Parents Need to Have Kids to Advise on Parenting?”

• Not necessary—what matters are expertise, experience, and care for children.

On Changes if Supernanny Launched Today:

• Jo would continue with her foundational approach, but address different modern struggles: tech, burnout, resource scarcity. Fundamental challenges in parenting remain, but systems and supports have changed.

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Conclusion: Lessons on Parenthood, Media, and Human Connection

Jo Frost’s journey—from her first hands-on family interventions to becoming a global franchise and authority on parenting—demonstrates that integrity, emotional authenticity, and persistent advocacy can thrive even in the high-pressure environments of reality TV. Her story is also one of self-awareness, community, and the unchanging need for honest, often difficult conversation.

Final Words

"If I can be half the woman [my mother] was in the world and the impact that she had on her family and friends and community, then I'm doing a really good job." (89:03, Jo Frost)

Paul C. Brunson’s closing assessment:

"You, Jo, are hands down one of the most iconic people ever to land on a television screen." (91:24, Paul C. Brunson)

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For Listeners New and Old

This episode provides invaluable context for fans of Supernanny, TV professionals, and parents alike. It blends personal testimony, professional insight, and practical parenting philosophy all delivered with Jo Frost’s hallmark directness and empathy. Even for those unfamiliar with the show, Jo’s advocacy for child welfare, parental self-honesty, and conversational courage resonates long after the credits roll.

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Notable Timestamps

• 02:08 – Jo’s entry into childcare and transition to TV
• 13:04 – The struggle over production control and insistence on authenticity
• 20:49 – The gravity of being watched and trusted by millions
• 27:00 – The moving account of comforting a terminally ill child
• 34:16 – Costs of professional integrity
• 41:36 – Asserting boundaries as “duty of care”
• 57:00 – Q&A: Regrets, screen time, and evolving parental challenges
• 70:07 – Discussion on banning physical punishment
• 82:15 – The urgent need for open family conversation
• 89:03 – Tribute to Jo’s mother and her own leadership philosophy

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Transcript

[Paul]

You are the super nanny.

[Jo Frost]

My heart is beating as I'm saying this. I remember getting a phone call from a lady. She said, I'm just wondering if you could speak to my son. He's dying. And he said this to me, and when I die, will my mummy be there? Gonna well up now, Channel four. I want to do a TV show and they want to call it Super Nanny. And then I got a phone call the next day. Jo, 5.2 million people watched.

[Paul]

Did you feel any pressure from the production company at all?

[Jo Frost]

It came at the cost of every day. Like the production have asked for you to put the IFB in your ear. The network think that it may be a great idea, you know, if you said this line. Why? That has nothing to do with what's happening with the family.

[Paul]

I think we should unpack that.

[Jo Frost]

One time, an executive producer put the camera down. He said, everybody get out. Because I. And they were left. I carried on working. I just want to make sure that every child is raised in a safe environment. Because I spent 200 hours with a family.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

That gets condensed into 42 minutes.

[Paul]

What about critique and complaints from the public?

[Jo Frost]

I hope this don't sound rude, but.

[Paul]

Oh, hey there. Before we begin, I just want to say, if you enjoy this conversation, be sure to like it. Be sure to comment about what you appreciated, and be sure to subscribe. It helps us to bring more guests that you want to see.

[Jo Frost]

Thank you.

[Paul]

Joe Frost, we need to talk.

[Jo Frost]

We do.

[Paul]

Yes, we do.

[Jo Frost]

Yes, we do.

[Paul]

Yes, we do.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

I feel like there are a million places we can begin.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah.

[Paul]

But I know the main question that everyone has, so I want to start with this main question.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

Is how in the world do you become the super nanny? Because not just like a super nanny, you are the super nanny.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah.

[Paul]

At what point does this all begin? At what age? How do you become a nanny?

[Jo Frost]

Oh, my career started when I was a teenager.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

So, you know, like, I've been involved, you know, and around children since I was a teenager, you know, and so then in my 20s was that breadth of work where, you know, I was relentlessly and mercifully, intuitively helping families on that level. And, you know, that. That was a lot of grounding work for me that then elevated to a level of troubleshooting where specifically families would call because they had issues, they had challenges, they wanted to know the advice, the, you know, the resolve. Right. Of how they could eliminate that challenge, that issue that they had, whether that was potty training, whether that was sleep deprivation, whether that was getting their, you know, themselves on the same page with their partners. Whether that was sibling rivalry, a new addition, whether that was divorce, you know, a lot of the challenges, basically, that you've seen watching me on the Super Nanny show. You guys, the audience gave me that name, but it morphed into the world calling me Super Nanny. Just like, I guess how we would call Hugh Jackman Wolverine, right?

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

So then there was an opportunity for me whilst I was troubleshooting and helping families, to give help. So it was like a product, you know, the production company. I put a little article in a local family magazine that said if you've had. And if you have over 5 years experience as a professional looking after children in the childcare arena, you know, we would love to get your advice.

[Paul]

Oh, interesting. So you have had, by the time you answered that ad. Oh, I think that you had had decades. How old were you when you answered that?

[Jo Frost]

A wealth of knowledge. 30. 34.

[Paul]

34, yeah. So you had. You started paying. Yes, 17 years, almost two decades worth of nanny experience, mentoring, training, et cetera. And I think also it's important for everyone to realize that you spent the entirety of your adult life doing this, because I think that when it comes to television, and we'll get into this later, and this is questions that I've seen people pose about television personalities. Is, okay, are you an actor or is this your career? Is this a profession? This was clearly your profession.

[Jo Frost]

There's elitism, you know, in what you're saying there with the respects of, oh, you're not a psychologist. Oh, you're not a doctor.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

So how are you able to do what you do yet? My methods, my teachings are in colleges, universities. They're being taught. My shows are being aired in classrooms.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, so again, it is just as valid to have life experience, immersive life experience. It's not to discount any clinical doctorate

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

or

[Jo Frost]

qualification in that matter. But life experience is equally, I believe, as valid in. In the work that I'm doing and understanding the difference and knowing the difference of your capacity and what you can do, you know, and that's very important for me because what I know is out my depth. I make sure that I can defer that to the professionals that can.

[Paul]

Fair enough.

[Jo Frost]

You have to know the difference.

[Paul]

Fair enough. Yeah. So thinking about that ad, right? You answer the ad. Yes, I would assume thinking this is a job opportunity, but not television.

[Jo Frost]

No, I don't. I'm like this. I'm happy, happy. I'm like, oh, somebody wants some Information. Great. I can give that because that's me. Like, I am the person. If you're like, hey, Joe, like, hey, no problem, you know, hey, can you. Yeah, no problem. So now what I know from television talk, I thought it would just be given information that we now call sound bites. Right? Oh, I'm just going to give information. I'm just going to help. And so I show up in Brighton, which is where the production company was. I later get told that I was the last person out of a hundred people that they've interviewed. Oh, wow.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

And I kind of just roll. Hey, hi. Hi. And I get asked by one particular person. There's two behind the desk. So how long do you think it would take you to help a family to get like a nine month old to sleep? Like, maybe three or four months. And I just spurt out three or four months. You ought to be bloody joking. Three or four months. Like, parents would be like this. Like, no, five, seven days. And it gets noted. And I just kind of stand there and I say, oh, is that what I'm going to be doing? Am I going to be helping, like, families? Giving advice? Because I got lots of advice I can give, you know, for families. And so they say, actually we might have somebody that we'd like you to help. Would you mind if, like, we did that? And I'm like, oh, okay. I have no idea.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

I know what I know and I can help. And that's great. And then they turn around and say, hey, we've got this family, you know, we're just wondering if you can show up. Let's look at the date. So I go down and I help this young lady who is distraught. She's got several kids and they're sitting down at lunchtime and they are just lobbing. I mean, they are throwing satsumas and oranges at her head. Like, all I can see is like this. And they're just chucking food and she's just, she's just bouncing around like this. And I'm like, What's going on here? You know, like. And I'm just watching and this is just carrying on. She's like, stop, stop, stop. Down, put down. Stop that. Tap that top there, tap that. And I just watch for a bit and I say, hey, can I talk to you for a minute? And I just pull her out the room and into the other room. And I'm just direct. I'm like, no, nonsense. I'm like, hey, you're struggling in there. And this is what's going On. And this is why the kids are doing this. And if you don't actually realize that you need to be X, Y, and Z in order for them to behave differently, it's gonna carry on. And she's just like this. Cause I've got her like this now, just talking to her. And I'm like, do you want this to change or not? Because right now, if you want this to change, this is what we need to do. Because otherwise these kids are gonna carry on doing this. I said, and it's because you're not leading. It's because you're not saying to them this. There's no expectation. You know, you've not set up any boundaries. You've not. This is what. And she's just. At that moment, you can see she's holding onto every word. Every word. And I wanted to hold on to every word I do because this poor mother is exhausted. And these kids, there are no boundaries. Right, Right. And it's not their fault. Right, Right. They're just having fun. They think it's fun.

[Paul]

Sure.

[Jo Frost]

I'm just throwing some stuff, and I'm just. And they think it's all fun. They're all laughing. They think it's all fun. Right. And I'm sitting here thinking, well, this is not great table manners. They're not sitting down, eating together as a family. She goes back in and she does what I say, and boom.

[Paul]

Just like that.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, she took every instruction, every word, and boom. Like that was the difference. And she just looked over at me and she went, I know. You know, carry on. Like, I did that.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Like, keep talking and just carry on. And so then I pulled her out again after dinner, you know, and I just said to her, look, this situation here, you know, can I ask you why this is happening at the table? And she says it's not. She says it happens every day and it happens not at the table. Which is what I know.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

That if you have during the day a child who's not listening and you're not exercising authority, which, by the way, has been coated as control in social media.

[Paul]

Sure.

[Jo Frost]

Right.

[Paul]

Sure.

[Jo Frost]

Then your kids are just going to run amok.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

They can make up the rules themselves. They can have no guidance because you're not being assertive enough.

[Paul]

Yes. You know what's interesting, too, is what I truly love about this story is that you weren't in there performing. You were in there doing what you do. You were trying to help her. But as you're doing it, really, what this seems to Be is they're auditioning you.

[Jo Frost]

This is an audition? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've gone in to help someone and. And they're filming that. And they. They did. And they took that to Channel four. Okay. In the uk.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

And within, I don't know, I think it was probably one or two days, I was down Oxford Street. I was in Oxford Street, I was picking up a few things down Oxford Street. I got a phone call and they said, hi, you know, it's so and so from blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, hi. Can you just hold on a minute, hold on. Buses are going past, you know, Oxford, you know, but. Oh, you know that bit there. Well, we showed it to Channel four and they actually want to do a TV show and they want to call it Super Nanny. And I think my mouth was there. I didn't still really understand the gravitas of that, the depth of that. And at that moment, they didn't quite know. The production company didn't quite know what the format was going to be. But I did, because it's what I did.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

I was troubleshooting. I was helping families. So I remember a wonderful executive producer called Amanda Murphy, and she said to me, look, the production have asked for you to put the fb, the IFB in your ear and they're going to want to talk to you. And I looked at her and I said, what for? And she said, well, they're going to want to talk to you whilst, you know, you're helping the family. And I looked at her and I went, why? I couldn't fathom. Why would you want to talk to me if you're filming.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

With a camera? Why do you need to talk to me? Like, let me. I'll just do my job. Right. And you just film it. You just follow me now.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

I don't know. Right.

[Paul]

I just went, why, did you refuse it?

[Jo Frost]

Yeah, I did. So I turned around and I went, no, no, no, no, I don't need that. How is someone going to help me? I don't need the help. So I turned around and I said to Amanda, no, I can't. I can't do that. I'm not doing that. No, tell them no. Like, I'm just going to go in and I'm going to help the family. But if you want to talk to me, like, want to come out for a cuppa, like, we can have a conversation.

[Paul]

That's when you talk to me?

[Jo Frost]

That's when you can talk to me.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

And she was amazing because she just turned around and she said to me, do what you do. I got you and that from another woman, you know, by a company that was run by men, right? They were like, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? I need to know this. I need the control. I need to. Which was a big deal for them, obviously. But to have this strong executive producer, you know, Amanda Murphy, I'm gonna shout out her name to Taryn and say, do what you do. I will handle it. Do what you do was a godsend for me. And I remember the first day we were helping a family called the Wood family.

[Paul]

Okay, The Wood.

[Jo Frost]

The Wood family in Grantham. And I hadn't got the suit yet. And I was up there a couple of days before and two wonderful ladies, dressmakers had put the suit together. You know, they were like, oh, we need a suit. And I'm like, why? Why do I need a suit? Like, why do I need a suit? Like, does a suit then make you look more professional? Will a suit make my words land better? Like, why do we need a suit? Why? Why can I not dress like this?

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

And be taken seriously, you know? Well, we want the suit to distinguish the difference between you and the family doing this. I said, okay, first day, that's it. You get one day. You get one day. Because who helps babies and toddlers and on the floor, on the floor with 3 inch high heels, you know, and a pencil skirt suit. Yes, I'm on the floor. I'm in there, you know?

[Paul]

Yes. What about Jo? So here from my experience being in television, just so that everyone understands the breadth of the success of the show, which, by the way, I believe you. And this show is one of the few international franchises and the show. So in over 100 market. You probably know the number better than

[Jo Frost]

me, but over 100 markets, 149 territories. I mean, yeah, yeah. As I said to you, like, Barbados is like home for me. Right? So, you know, I've been going for just shy of five decades. My parents were very good friends of Sir Hugh Springer, the governor General in Barbados. And so, you know, my parents knew his family and so we were invited for first time, you know, back when I was like 7 years old. But they didn't know to the level of how, you know, compassionate I was in, you know, with this being a career for myself. So there'd been some time that had gone past and like super nanny had happened. And I'm walking into the shack, I'm gonna get some fried chicken, I'm gonna Have a Banks beer or, you know, I'm gonna have a Mount Gay and Ronco, you know. And I hear Joanne, wait, what happened, puppy? Super nanny way, you know, like from some shack down the road. Like, Joanne. That's my name. Joanne.

[Paul]

Joanne, yeah.

[Jo Frost]

You know, and they don't call me Joe. They're like, joanne, you know, they shot down the street.

[Paul]

Clips to this day. We were just out here.

[Jo Frost]

I know.

[Paul]

Yeah. Clips to this day that people watch and not just watch for entertainment, but watch to learn and therefore apply it to their family. And then also how long the show ran for.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah.

[Paul]

So what I have here is that. And you tell me, because there were many incarnations of. Of this, right? So you have here that we have 2004 to 2008. We have Super Nanny UK.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

2005. Yeah, you keep me right. You keep me right.

[Jo Frost]

I remember myself.

[Paul]

I'm like, yes, 2005 to 2011, we have super nanny us.

[Jo Frost]

And then again.

[Paul]

And then again in 2020.

[Jo Frost]

Yep. I filmed in 2019, shut down right before COVID That was released the year

[Paul]

of COVID Yep, the year of COVID And then we also have the incarnation. So we have Joe Frost Extreme Parental guidance.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

We have Family SOS with Joe Frost in the US Yes. We have Joe Frost Family Matters for ITV in the uk.

[Jo Frost]

Yes. Studio show. Yes.

[Paul]

Yes. We have Joe Frost Nanny on tour in the Netherlands and the us.

[Jo Frost]

That's right. I produced that myself as a production company.

[Paul]

And we have Joe Frost on Britain's Killer Kids.

[Jo Frost]

That's right. Yes.

[Paul]

When you think back on that career.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

And I can imagine what you're going to say on this, because now I know you know you. Right. But what are you most proud of saying?

[Jo Frost]

Yes. Having the courage, I think, really just having the courage to say yes to the opportunity. Cause it was a beautiful opportunity and a wonderful, you know, idea. Right. That the production company had thought of. I mean, the first time, the first episode went out in England, I got a phone call the next day, Joe, 5.2 million people watched. Is that good then? That's what I said. Is that good? Then they went, yeah. And I went, oh, great, that's great then. Okay.

[Paul]

But then you put the phone down, you picked up your tea. That's what you did. Yeah.

[Jo Frost]

You know, hey, dad. You know, and I keep saying dad because, you know, I'd lost my mom at the age of 24 and I was still living at home, you know, with my father. So I was like, hey, dad. He got 5.2. And my dad Went well, that sounds like a high number. I went, apparently. Yeah, apparently that's a good number. You know, and that year, the year after, you know, we'd won an award, you know, the RTS award for the show.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, you, you don't. Now, I understand that because I understand the business. Right side of things. Yeah. And that there are so many different intricate stuff sees in a show being green lit.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Right. And what that involves.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

But back then in 2004, I had no idea.

[Paul]

Didn't know. Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, and that did come at a cost because I was seen as difficult. Oh, she's being a pain in the ass today. You know, like, she's being so difficult, you know, or like, you know, we, you know, the network think that it may be a great idea, you know, if you said this line. Why, why like that. That has nothing to do with what's happening with the family though. Why, why would I say that? You know, but. Because that's what they think. Well, I appreciate that they can tell me that, but why would I say that if it's not relevant to the family? Because at that moment, Paul, you realize the sensibility and the importance because everybody is hanging on to every word you say.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

That's a hell of a responsibility.

[Paul]

It is. And I want to explore this cost even deeper. And because I'm a super. I was going to say I'm a super nanny for that reason I wanted to say, I don't know why, but because I'm a super nerd on television and reality. One thing I notice about the dates here. So let's say, let's look at 2004 to 2020. Right?

[Jo Frost]

Yeah.

[Paul]

During that time you have the rise of more and more extreme reality.

[Jo Frost]

That's right.

[Paul]

Television. I can personally attest to over a dozen pitches that I have seen where in the pitch document, the statement was like super nanny. And it was like a weekend fix this. Go in for a day, 48 hours with this person. And it was always. The basis was always super nanny. So absolutely, you created this benchmark, if you will, in history, which is like, is that something that you are proud of?

[Jo Frost]

Absolutely.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

I can't take credit for that alone. You know, my crew is my family. You know, back then, one season was 23 episodes. I was on the road 48 weeks a year, two weeks off at Christmas, two weeks off in the summer. Like it was a hard grind. And they got to a point where they couldn't do UK anymore because the amount of episodes that were coming in you know, from America, you know, and that sort of roster of how things were, you know, on the network. And it's a champagne problem, you know, don't get me wrong.

[Paul]

Wait, I'm sorry, Joe. So you were saying that was the demand, what, too heavy in the US or why wasn't.

[Jo Frost]

I mean, it's not. It is what it is. You know, it's just that back then, like, you know, like now you may have network commit to sort of 10 episodes, you know, or six or eight.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

Or they may even turn around and say, we need to see a pilot first.

[Paul]

True.

[Jo Frost]

You know, I don't know what that feels like because, you know, if I show up and there's an idea and somebody loves it, then they're not piloting. They're like, well, we all know she's a global success, like 20. Straight away, 22.

[Paul]

Look at that.

[Jo Frost]

And so the success, you know, of the show, I owe to the families that were brave enough to come forth. Yes, right. And my hand was in that casting because it was very important that I was not getting families that just wanted to be on a show.

[Paul]

Fair, Fair. What do you.

[Jo Frost]

Family that would really want help, and then your crew, you know, because they're who you're spending your time with, you know, they're with you. And then there's your kind of inner circle, those that are traveling immediately with you because they go everywhere where you are. Right. And then again, those that support you outside of that, which is your family, your friends. Right. Those that are close to you.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

So when there are moments that are difficult, you know, there are moments when, you know, I've gone into family's homes and that first day is. It's been heart wrenching, and I've closed the door. Okay, see you tomorrow. I closed the door, just broke down in tears. You know, those moments, you know, those moments are tough. They're tough. And I know that being vulnerable in front of families allow them to see that you're human and that they're human and that we're all trying to do the best that we can. And then there are moments when you have to be professional.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Because you're there to do a job, to help them. You know, people don't. People. You know, it's really bizarre because, you know, when people have seen me work professionally.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Under, you know, this super nanny show, they see the taxi, they see me working professionally, they see the suit, they see the glasses. And let's be honest, when people are asking me into their home, it's not for a cup of tea and a slice of lemon cake. It's like shit has hit the fan. We need you to help us. We're in a very bad place. But what people don't see with hours, because I spend 200 hours with a family.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

That gets condensed into 42 minutes. They don't see the moments that I'll pick, you know, one of the mums up and throw over my shoulder. You know, I've laughed with a family so hard where I was asking them to implement this technique together. It was about them working as a couple. I laughed so hard, I fell off the chair. Like, I lost my balance and fell off the chair. You know, I remember a family saying to me, as soon as I opened the door, this would you like a cup of tea? And I said, do you know what? A scotch would be really good.

[Paul]

And I could see you actually wanting it. Joe, what was the hardest moment for you in terms of most challenging family?

[Jo Frost]

There have been many. There have been many challenging moments when, you know, hundreds of families have been helped on these different shows. So to pinpoint one, I really couldn't. But I do know that, you know, when you see children hurting, that hurts my heart. That hurts my heart. When the children are almost. Their spirits are almost crushed because of how the parents are raising them. And their parents have their own trauma and their parents have their own issues that you need to spend time talking to them with, helping them, holding them, cradle in them. And then there are moments that are really difficult when I've been filming. You know, those moments are difficult. I remember getting a phone call from going to well up now. I remember getting a phone call from a young lady, a grandma. A grandma who had lost her daughter to breast cancer.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

And she had a young son, and that young son had cancer. And he loved watching the supernally shows. He loved watching the shows. And he only had several days to live. And the grandma reached out because she said, I'm just wondering if you could speak to my son, Chase. He loves your shows, but he's dying, you know, and my heart is beating as I'm saying this. I just feel. And I did. I called him, you know, and he said this to me. I love watching your show, super nanny. And you really help the families. And I love what you do. And you talk to the children and you love the children. And when I die, will my mummy be there? Will my mummy be there? Will she be there to meet me? Like, will she be there? Will I see her when I die? And I just Paused for a moment and said, chase, you know, like when you used to go to school and you know, like when the bell rings and it's like, end of a school day and, like, you know that you're gonna go home now and you know, like when the teacher says, okay, and they walk you out the corridor and your mummy's there and she's waiting for you and she's got a drink and a snack. I said, gonna be just like that. Mummy's gonna be there. Right there. Right there. He said, that's good to know. Do you say, yeah, I don't know.

[Paul]

I have chills with you saying that. It's like, yeah, what do you say?

[Jo Frost]

And I got off the phone and I cried. I cried. I need. I need. I need a moment, you know, because I would never have the earpiece, but, you know, I'd have a mic, right. I'd be mic'd. So I could. I need 10 minutes. I'd already pulled plug to talk to Chase, but pulled back in. I need five. I need five. Okay. You know.

[Paul]

Yes. Yes. It was tough, you know, your love for children. Where do you believe that that comes from? What's the source of that?

[Jo Frost]

But I'm an old soul.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Just like Kingston. He's an old soul.

[Paul]

Yes. Yeah. My son is old soul. Yes.

[Jo Frost]

From what I've seen.

[Paul]

Very much so.

[Jo Frost]

Right. So it's this innate, profound, intuitive responsibility. I really feel that. To make sure that every child has the opportunity to be raised in an environment that will be safe and kind, because at the end of the day, they're going to become adults and they are going to shape the world. And we've only got to look at leaders in this world and the decisions that they make and question, what kind of an upbringing did they have and who were their parents and how were they shaped? And so that love. I don't know exactly where that comes from. And I'm okay with not knowing either. I just know I have it.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

I just know that I have that love. And I get pushback. You know, people say to me. You know, they say to me, but you don't have children yourself. No, I have millions. That's how I feel. I feel I have millions. Like, it's not. I don't have children. So your children are your business. Every child is my business. I think every child should be your business. I think children of the world are our business as adults. We have a responsibility as adults to take care of our children and to protect them and to equally give them opportunities in the world. And I think if we understood that, we'd have less trauma, we'd have a kinder world.

[Paul]

What did you learn about love from your mother and father?

[Jo Frost]

My parents loving me meant that I was able to be who I am now. You know what I mean? Like, for example, like, I'm opinionated, you know, and I have values, you know, and so I think their. Their love was basically not just providing and making sure I had a roof over my head and. And fed, but giving me the space to just grow up being who I was. Unapologetically, this makes.

[Paul]

This makes perfect sense. If you look at who you are as an adult, you are a representation. And I always say this, and. And when you. You tell me if you like this, because this is your field, is. I feel like we are a representation of the love of our parents. And your parents, what they did is. I can see that they taught you how to be unapologetic. They taught you how to. How. How to. How to. How to be vocal about what it is that you value and your beliefs.

[Jo Frost]

Yes, very much so. And they're very strong with. With their values and their beliefs as well. But in altruism as well, in charity, too.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, like, we grew up, you know, seeing that, you know, with our parents, the importance of, you know, you say it takes a village, but, you know, it's about community. Right. It's about your neighbors. You know, I grew up in a time in the 70s where we saw that in the 80s where, you know, neighbors helped one another. And I remember at Christmas time, you know, and throughout the year, but at Christmas time, you know, my parents were the ones that were doing things for the aged and for the neighbors and making sure that they were good at this time where so many people can feel alone, you know, and they're probably one of the youngest couples with kids at the time down the street, you know, so, you know, my brother and I learned from a very young age what that meant to give, to be part of community, to have, you know, to give charity, to be selfless in that way, to think of community. You know, we were raised that way as. And that I think that balance of compassion as well as mental resilience and strength as well is what. Yes, but then the balance of that, because you can't, you know, we live in a world where that can be very polarized, you know, one or the other. And I think that my teachings sit in the middle of that.

[Paul]

Yes, yes, yes. You know, Joe, you mentioned something that I just want to go back to, because I think we should unpack it a bit. And that is you being so unapologetic. Came at a cost, specifically, yes. What was that cost?

[Jo Frost]

It came at the cost of meaning that every day I would have to explain over and over again why the integrity of my decisions would benefit the family.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

You know, and that it was important to me that in doing the right thing, the show, I knew the show would be successful in doing the right thing and not cutting corners and making sure that the families were not in any way exploited. There would be no, well, the crew break at 1, so we'll just keep rolling until 1. It'd be like, no, the kids need to eat. It's 12 o'. Clock. Last time they had breakfast, the mother told me, was at 8.

[Paul]

I see it.

[Jo Frost]

So everything ran accordingly to make sure that family were never put out.

[Paul]

I see.

[Jo Frost]

Never put out.

[Paul]

I see.

[Jo Frost]

You know, so you know that that comes at a cost when time is money, you know, and you're working as, you know, there's a 10 hour day or a 12 hour day or what that looks like and how much money it costs to build in a budget line for a show and then how many episodes and then, you know what that, the impact of that on a network and then the airspace for that and the branding and, you know, you realize that.

[Paul]

Do you believe, right. Do you believe you were labeled as difficult?

[Jo Frost]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know so. I know so. I was labeled difficult because when I had the opportunity to explore other opportunities with other production companies, they would say, oh God, you're nothing like what I've heard.

[Paul]

Interesting.

[Jo Frost]

And I would say, what do you mean by that? I said, oh, we heard that you're really difficult, you know, that you're troublesome and you're very difficult. Because I have a vision, because I know what I need to do to help a family. Because I won't say what you want me to say or you can't control me in a way that you wish that you could. Like I'm doing. It's a win win, you know, it's a win win because the family are getting helped. The children have a healthy environment. This couple, like I still hear from a couple that when I walked in, they, they served me divorce papers. They went, no pressure. But if this don't work, we're out. Like, we just got to that point and I. Well, they're clearly not out out.

[Paul]

Right.

[Jo Frost]

You've heard that saying, right? Yeah, yeah, you've heard that saying in English. Not out. Right.

[Paul]

Yeah.

[Jo Frost]

You know, you're clearly not out out. Right.

[Paul]

Was there ever a family that you just couldn't help, that you had to just walk away from?

[Jo Frost]

No. I think I've helped every family to the best of my ability, but what I can't control is what they choose to do after they've seen how it can be and the choices that they make beyond that. And I think it's very. I think it would be rather egotistical for us to sit in this position with the roles that we have and the credentials and go, oh, yeah, I fix that family.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

I don't fix a family. I guide a family. I educate a family and hope that what I'm giving them is enough for them to trust me, to allow me the privilege of helping them to transform their life in a way that's just night and day for them.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, fix families.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, but you know that in television, those titles, they're so archaic, you know, fix saved. We don't do that.

[Paul]

Yes, yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, that's not what we do.

[Paul]

Yeah, no, I agree. You know, you're being very eloquent in describing the tension, I think, between television personalities or talent, should I say, with integrity versus those without. One thing that I'm curious about, though, is that in that rise between, say, 2004 and 2020, reality television definitely got louder, bolder. And did you feel any pressure from the production company at all? Any pressure from the network to go louder, go, bolder?

[Jo Frost]

No.

[Paul]

Pull families in that were more extreme?

[Jo Frost]

No, I think. I didn't feel. I didn't feel the pressure because. Because in my contract, I had cast in approval.

[Paul]

Ah, look at that.

[Jo Frost]

That was a deal breaker for me if I didn't have cast in approval.

[Paul]

That. Interesting, interesting.

[Jo Frost]

Because it has to be real. You have to genuinely go, I need her help. Because. Because when those families are vulnerable and they are trusting, their life's in your hands, they're not just shaping their own family, but millions who are watching in the corners of Morocco, somewhere in Australia, in a little pocket village in Ireland. And it's not me that's the magic, it's that family. Because those families are watching that family on television, they're rooting for them. Sometimes in the beginning they might go, I don't know if I really like her. Yeah, I don't know, man. Like, he sounds a little bit shady. Like, seriously, can he not see? You know, but in the. In the end, you see what I see. In the beginning, what was important for me is that what I saw in the beginning of a Family, when I was there for the first five minutes, 10 minutes, is what every family saw in the end when they watched.

[Paul]

I see.

[Jo Frost]

And so for me, I had cast in approval. That was very important because I needed to keep the integrity of the families that genuinely needed help and not a family that thought, oh, I'm gonna be on television.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

And all I have to do is just act out and be performative.

[Paul]

Right now, you are hitting on. I think the number one issue with reality television right now is intention. I think we've almost reached a point where the audience just assumes that whoever lands on a reality television show, the intention is more brand power, more followers, more commercial deals.

[Jo Frost]

But can you blame them? But truthfully, can you blame them? The reality reckoning that you speak of has to be a sensibility that starts at the top for those that make decisions, you know, and. And it means that as long as there's greed, that won't happen. You know, it has to be about, you know, what are we making? What's the intention of why we're making it? You know, And I think there should be a duty of care officer on anything. On anything that involves, you know, transformation and change. There has to be.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, for me, that was. I was the duty of care officer. I made sure that every individual and as a family, as a whole, that that boundary was there. And, yeah, it would cause friction. Yes, that absolutely would cause friction. You know, I remember one time an executive producer put the camera down, told all his crew to get out. He said, everybody, get out. Because I said no to something. I was like, that wouldn't be right for the family. And so, you know, he wanted to pull rank, so he called all the crew out. And so they respectfully listened to the showrunner and they all left. I carried on working. I'm like, hey, I just wanna let you know that I'm gonna carry on. So, like, you're not gonna get any of this on camera if you decide to stay out and sulk. So I'll just let you know, carried on like, I'm not doing that.

[Paul]

That's unapologetic.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah, it is. It is.

[Paul]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jo Frost]

So, you know.

[Paul]

You know, also, I think when women

[Jo Frost]

are unapologetic, it's different. Come on, let's be honest.

[Paul]

It's a whole nother label, whole nother reaction. How did you. Yeah, how did you manage that?

[Jo Frost]

I found it tough emotionally and as a strong woman. That's not right. You know, as a leader in this industry, I want to support women to feel empowered in the space, to pick up and other women to truthfully recognize that they don't have to act like men as women in power. Right. But to uplift, to empower other women in this industry and to support women who, like myself, are creative and do have a vision and do want to do good and what that looks like.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

You know, and it means that you have to be incredibly brave because you're not just going up against one person. You're probably going up against a panel, a board of what that looks like, and what does that mean to you? You know, if I'd have been in a position where somebody said, actually, no, we can't do that, you know, I'd have come home, I'd have still helped families. I'd have still been helping families.

[Paul]

Yes, yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, just not on the level that I am.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

I'd still be making a difference in one baby's life, in one single mother's life, in one father who'd been widowed, in one teenager's life.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, each family at a time, One family at a time, one child at a time. Just not on this, you know, just not on this massive level that I have. And I'm grateful for that, because I think that is the power of television. That truly is the. Like, this show. Right. It's the power of using television in a really productive, positive way.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

That pum.

[Paul]

That pum. Yeah. Now.

[Jo Frost]

Cause impact doesn't have to be massive.

[Paul]

It doesn't.

[Jo Frost]

You know, it can be one person.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Right.

[Paul]

Yes. Yeah. And I know you get it all the time. It's, you know, you walk down the street and you have that one person that says, that moment that you were in changed my life. And that's like. That's the food for your soul.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah. That's a lovely way of saying it, because it is spiritually rewarding.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Like, you know, your purpose, you know why you're doing what you're doing. You know, and they've been, you know, it wasn't always that easy for me not to receive the. The compliments and the stories, but when I first was doing the show, people just rush. Doesn't matter. What if I was in a supermarket or on a train? Just rush and, like, put their arms around you and grab you and give you a kiss. And I, you know, naturally, I'm quite an introvert. You know, I'm very focused and passionate about the work that I do. But if there's karaoke for love or, you are not getting me out. I'm like, no, I'm all right. I'm fine. I'll just. I'll watch. I'll have a rum and Coke and I'll just watch. You know, that's. That's not going to be me. I'm not going to be up doing the karaoke, you know, so, like, kudos to Jill.

[Paul]

Exactly.

[Jo Frost]

Kudos to Jill doing. To karaoke.

[Paul]

But by the way, I didn't realize this about you. These are. I think there's a lot of similarities where, you know, I'm a massive introvert. Massive introvert. And it's one of those where I think we can both step into the environment.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

You know, I think that a lot of people confuse introversion and extroversion.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

You know, because it truly is about where you source your energy. But you can be an introvert but also be confident.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

You know, being an introvert doesn't mean you're shy.

[Jo Frost]

Yes. And be an introvert in, you know, what you're comfortable. What makes you comfortable in the environments that you're in.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, and so I think that's something you learn to get better at as well, because you're not just born knowing that, you know, you. You start to realize your own sensitivities and, you know, energy. I mean, really, if you, you know, really, everything's about energy.

[Paul]

How, you know, we've been talking about really how you dealt with adversity within the production. Right. But how did you deal with critique and complaints from the public?

[Jo Frost]

I hope this don't sound rude, but that's their opinion, and I don't mean that rudely, but, like, everybody's entitled to have their opinion of what they think or feel about me and my work. I just know the work I'm doing with the family and the difference that that's making, and that's what matters.

[Paul]

Yeah, but does it ever. But does that ever get to you? Because, you know, and I've said this a few times on this podcast, is that I think I've done a much better job at not listening to the critics. Right. And not taking it to heart. A much better job. But still, I would say I'm impacted by critique. I'm impacted by the wild storyline about something. I think it's because. Well, it's actually now with my boys, there's another reason that's been added. So the first reason was I want to be. I love my work. I feel like I'm good at what I do, and I want to be Considered good at what I do. However, with my boys, what's happened is that when you have critiques that are. With no basis.

[Jo Frost]

Specifically about your boys.

[Paul]

Oh, no, no, specifically about me.

[Jo Frost]

Something about you as a father, you mean?

[Paul]

Oh, no, it could be just about me generally, you know, being on television. It could be this guy is a buffoon.

[Jo Frost]

Right, okay, okay. Yeah.

[Paul]

And then if my boys see that, that becomes an irritant to me because what's good is we have conversations around it. But the point is that it hurts them. It. It hurts them to see the person that they love be targeted. Right. So that's why.

[Jo Frost]

So you're protective over them and how emotionally they will feel in the process of reading that about you. But the more confident I believe you continue to become as a parent and the deeper the emotional intimacy that you have with your boys, it becomes. They can't touch that. Yes, they won't be able to touch that. So right now you're coming from a place as a father where you are protective in them. Possibly being influenced by an external outsource. Isn't that every parent right now, with social media, being worried that their teenagers are going to be influenced by what one person or another says about how they look, how they dress, how they communicate, how they're showing up? And I'm just going to suggest and put it out there that I believe that you'll get to a point where the work that you're doing, the external validation won't matter anymore.

[Paul]

Wow. So, Joe, you've reached the point where external validation.

[Jo Frost]

I've got nothing to prove.

[Paul]

Doesn't matter.

[Jo Frost]

I have nothing to prove. I'm here because I know why I'm here. I know the work that I want to do. I know where I want to elevate. I'm so ready. There is a lack of resource funding and training, not just in the uk, but in America as well and Australia and many other countries like. We need to meet the demand. Yes, we need to meet the demand. The government have stripped families in the UK for two decades of resources. How do you think a society is going to show up? How do you think they're going to show up? You know, we have to provide. We have to start grassroots up. We have to have leaders that are empathetic and can put in systems and structure and funding so that we can train. You know, I have young, predominantly young women that say, my God, your work inspired me to work in nurseries and to go into childcare and to be a social worker and to become a Psychologist. Good. I'm pleased to hear that. Like, you know, that's. That's what we need. Because we're hurting as a society.

[Paul]

We are.

[Jo Frost]

Hello? Hello?

[Paul]

Hey, Cass, where are you? I'm headed to Jamaica. Oxtails are calling. I'm headed to Vacay. What's up?

[Jo Frost]

No, no, no, no. Paul, you can't get on that plane. What?

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

The people of LA need to talk.

[Paul]

I'll be right there. I made it.

[Jo Frost]

Paul, come on. I know we're in la, but the sunglasses, they've got to go. Come on, we have work to do.

[Paul]

Gosh. Look, we need to Talk is taking a trip to la. Same set, new voices and conversations you've never heard before. So subscribe if you haven't already and drop a comment below. Who do we need to talk to? We just might make it happen. Gosh, I can see it already.

[Jo Frost]

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[Paul]

We reached out to our community, let them know that you were going to be here, and many questions were sent in.

[Jo Frost]

Oh, really? You did that?

[Paul]

So can we go through some questions?

[Jo Frost]

Absolutely.

[Paul]

All right, so now I want to ask you if you know what this is right here, Your suggestion box.

[Jo Frost]

Oh, for the kids.

[Paul]

All right, for the kids. This is your idea for the kids. So if you can to tell everyone what's the importance of a suggestion box.

[Jo Frost]

So it gets used in different ways, but predominantly it was to bring children to a place that felt it difficult to articulate emotionally what they needed or from their families, an opportunity to write that down. So for the older children, perhaps 8, 9, and 10, if they wanted to voice and they felt that doing so they were shut down or a tone was received in a way that really didn't give them the capacity to be vulnerable, they would write it on a card.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

Now, for the adults, I'll call it the babble box.

[Paul]

Babble boxes.

[Jo Frost]

Right. And so parents will have the opportunity during the week that there would be no excuse of, oh, we were passing ships. We just don't have time. And I'm like, if you don't have time to talk to your partner, you're gonna be in big trouble. Not just in the marriage, but the way that you raise your children, too. Because that's the foundation. Right. In Covid, we had this. We had my family struggling. My marriage is falling apart. The children are ruining it. My response has always been, children just highlight what a couple need to work on right within themselves in that marriage so that they can get it right for their children. They're like a sharpie pen. They're like the highlight.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

The children bring that up. And at that moment, if we're mature enough, we receive that.

[Paul]

I see. So what we've done is somewhat of that. What we've done is these are not suggestions, but questions. But they have all gone into the box. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to open up this box here. I knew I was going to have a problem opening it. I. Okay, No, I have it here. All right. So I'm going to take all these questions here. We're going to put them here. I'll put this back, and we're going to have a good time. This is going to be fun.

[Jo Frost]

They answered that. They wrote in.

[Paul]

This is going to be cool. So we are going to sit back, relax, and we are going to go through these questions. Okay. All right. So get ready. Get ready. Joe, first question is, do you have any regrets about super nanny?

[Jo Frost]

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. In doing the show. Yes, absolutely not.

[Paul]

Love it.

[Jo Frost]

Absolutely. Because I was a big part of that success. So it was the show. It was me on the show, helping the families.

[Paul]

That's right. Own it. Own it, Joe. Own it. Own it.

[Jo Frost]

You know, in a very confident way. And I'm grateful for all the help and the support.

[Paul]

This one could be a question that I would have for you as well.

[Jo Frost]

Okay.

[Paul]

What's your advice on navigating screen time with children?

[Jo Frost]

I know that we have to hold a standard and hopefully as we speak, laws that change that so that we hold big tech and companies responsible. But I wanna say this, and I think it's gonna be discomfort for a lot of families. Parents have gotta take ownership of that. They have to. Meaning we can't just say, oh well, our child's using the screen. You know, that's what they do now, Paul, I'm watching six month old babies holding phones.

[Paul]

Yeah. Restaurants all the time. You see it all the time.

[Jo Frost]

I would encourage and suggest strongly to so many parents to understand that when you choose to put a phone in your 6 month, 9 month, 2 year old's hands, what you are doing is prohibiting their development. You are. And that's not to take away the fact that parents need a break. But what do you think parents were doing before 2010? It's okay for children to cry, it's okay for children to be unhappy. It's okay for children to behave the way they do their children. You know, I strongly want to encourage parents to recognize that a lot of damage is being done. You know, so, so how are we going to look at how we limit screen time? Right. With algorithms and safety safeguarding and also recognizing that these shows are made differently. Right. They, they designed differently. Flick, flick, flick, flick, flick. Like Vegas, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Right. And how are we going to look as a family when they're appropriate to use, how long we use them for and the dialogue that we're going to have before we give consent for our children to have them. And most parents will say to me, I don't want my kids to get left out. I'm worried about my children being left out. You know, and that cannot be, that cannot be the excuse of why then we throw our children into rooms we would never if they were just out on the street. Because we're leaving our children under protected and yet in the real life we're being overprotective. Like, trust me, my kids wouldn't have had any social media until they're at least 17. I won't do it.

[Paul]

Yes, do you? I know Australia has the 16 and under God I pray UK will do legislation. Is that what would you like to see that in the uk I pray

[Jo Frost]

right now as we talk that is being considered, you know, but I don't like that. Sounds like lawyer language, doesn't it? It is, it's being considered.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, it will be considered. No, don't consider it. Do it, do it. You know, protect. Yes, protect your children in your Country. You know, there'll be a lot of parents that will say, oh, we don't want a nanny state. We don't want to be told how to raise, you know, our children. But we're caught between a rock and a hard place. Because if you're in, in my position, then I'm helping out a lot of families right now. They're not even understanding what their responsibility is. You know, at the same time, there are also parents that are exploiting their children and performative. I coined the phrase, you know, performative parenting, where it's all an act so that you can earn money, you know, from social media. What do you think that's doing to your children?

[Paul]

Yes. You know, on this topic, to me, this is interesting because I don't want to seem like I'm coming from an elitist position on it, but I know of many parents who provide a presentation. Yes, it's performative.

[Jo Frost]

It's performative parenting.

[Paul]

And I think the challenge is that you see that. And then what happens is the bar now for how you convey your parenting style on social media. It increases and it keeps leveling up to the point where we're at a place where no, and it's not real

[Jo Frost]

and it's not real, you know, and what does it look like when you put a screen in the hands of an 8 month old? When we know that the brain is being, the architecture of the brain and the development of the brain is being built in the first five years, you're going to change the wiring of that brain and then you're going to, down the road see what we're seeing now. We have a public health crisis right now. That's not just headlines. We do have children that cannot sit through a five minute good night story. We have children who are having outbursts, emotional outbursts, because they are soothed by a screen. And so now if your first point of reference is school, how can somebody clearly distinguish whether this child has ADHD due to the fact that it may be genetic or environmental factors? Because they show up very similar. Yes, they show up very similar. And, and that's the point that I'm trying to make. And I'm old enough and I've been in this industry long enough, this parental game. And I've seen it come around twice. I've seen. This is the second time I've seen it come around now.

[Paul]

Goodness.

[Jo Frost]

Where we had, you know, where we had parenting that was very strict and then very lenient and soft and then coming strict and now soft again, you know, Timeouts were demonized. You know, I modified the 1900s timeout.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, nothing like that. But again, blanket social medias. If timeouts were demonized, but they were the wrong thing to do, and yet we have to, as the adult, have a calmness, an authority that exudes safety, emotional safety for our children.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

And there are times when your children and I received this a lot. And it's got worse since the last 10, 12 years of more phones being handed over to young children. Emotional outbursts. You know, parents, my kid spits at me and punches me in the face and smacks me in the face and kicks me. You know, you have to have some reset. Some reset that allows a child at that moment to sit in this space and to recognise that sometimes less is more. You don't say anything at that moment, you're just gonna exasperate it. You're just gonna add fuel to the fire at that moment. There has to be a reset.

[Paul]

And your modification on the timeout, is that the step?

[Jo Frost]

Yeah.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Or a space. You know, at the time when you saw Supernan, it was put on a step. Right. It was a step or a mat, or it could be. If you were in a living room, it might have just been that chair, you know, to, to reset. But again, the blanket message went out there as, oh, it's abandoning. That's not abandonment. Being in the same room and three feet away, there's a space there for a child to sit there and you're here. That's not abandonment. You know, I think we've got to a point where we've really got to be careful about the language that we're using.

[Paul]

Oh, yeah, it's extreme, you know, so in disclosure for myself and my wife, we used timeouts. Or should I say we used, we have a 15 year old now, no more timeouts. But we use them profusely. We use them and found them to

[Jo Frost]

be very effective because you were emotionally intelligent with your children too. And you see, if you are a parent who is not yin and yang. Right. So my methods, you know, call it the frost method. Right, okay. The, the, the frost method is to be able to emotionally connect with your child, but to be grounded in your communication so that you can instill healthy boundaries to reset the circumstance at the, at the time. You cannot keep thinking to yourself, oh, I'm going to do a timeout. I'm going to keep doing a timeout to control the child, to get them to do something. A timeout will not teach a child how to Use a knife and fork properly. Practice will.

[Paul]

So what are the steps to an effective timeout?

[Jo Frost]

The steps to an effective timeout is to recognize first and foremost your values, your family values. Understanding what's a deal breaker for you. So know your values first. What's acceptable, what isn't okay. As parents, raising your children. And teach your children the importance of connecting in understanding what it looks like to be kind to another human being, what it looks like to have manners and etiquette and sit at a table, to be considerate of friends when they come around to play. Connect with your kid first. With your child first. Teach them. And then when you see the behavior that's been crossed, the.

[Paul]

The.

[Jo Frost]

The rule that's been broken. Because boundaries are about us. Right? You uphold your boundary, and upholding that boundary may look like this is unacceptable. This is not okay. And at this moment, you know, we're going to be doing a timeout. So I always teach families to give a child a warning first. Right. Because it allows a child to make a decision. Now, some parents will say, and some experts will argue, well, they. They don't really know. They don't know how to make that decision. But I think we underestimate children greatly because I know children that exactly know how to get what they want because they've been taught by their parents.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Right.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

And they're young.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

And they're young.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Right. And then, oh, my child, they. They just can't sit down for five minutes. Have you ever watched a child sit down five minutes for a chocolate lolly?

[Paul]

All the time. All the time.

[Jo Frost]

You know, like, we underestimate children. So the steps are a warning. Calmly, right at eye level. And we let go. We let go of that. We've said to them, we don't want you climbing on the tops of the counters of the kitchen. It's dangerous. You need to get down. You need to stop doing that. Okay, that's enough.

[Paul]

And Joe, why is eye level important?

[Jo Frost]

Because I believe the body language speaks more so than sometimes what we're saying. So I want alignment. I want what you say to align with how your body is. So the importance of body language and the integrity of your word must be in alignment. What I want children to feel is the sense of calm authority because we're there to guide our children.

[Paul]

Okay. Okay.

[Jo Frost]

You know, I want them to sense that, like, oh, you know, mommy said I can't do that.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

You know, in the same way. Well, she said I could do that. The integrity of your word just on

[Paul]

that Note, too, is because you talked about the importance of your child always feeling safe in your presence. Something that I'm hoping that this goes away as quickly as possible, but it still seems that it exists in many places of the world. Is spankings, beatings, slapping, etc.

[Jo Frost]

Yes, I'd like it to be banned. It is banned in other countries, Scotland and Wales and other places in the world. I would like the UK to ban spanking, smacking children. They may be 18 months, two years. They are a whole human being. If we did that to another adult, there would be severe consequences for doing so. And so why are we in a space where we're even having a discussion about a parent who has the privilege to raise another human in this world to hit. To hit them? That doesn't. That's about compliance and control. We already know. We know the evidence out there. We got the science out there. We know enough of the damage that that can cause in the relationship. I would love to see that law changed in Parliament.

[Paul]

Okay.

[Jo Frost]

And I do know that there. I do know that there has been an action last year with respects to that coming up in. In the Houses of Commons and in Parliament about banning that, and I would like to see that continue.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, we get to a place of that.

[Paul]

I'm right with you. I'm right with you. All right, next question is, what do you say to the people who question you giving parenting advice when you do not have children?

[Jo Frost]

I don't. Well, does a. Does a doctor need to have cancer to treat cancer? You know, again, it's very. It's a very sort of egotistical standpoint that you have to give back birth to a child to be able to have any say in what is good for another human being and how they are raised. You know, what does that say for those that adopt children in the world, for those that have, you know, haven't biologically given birth? You know, what. What does it say about those. Those parents? Yes. So, you know, again, they're entitled to their opinion, but I. I see it more as defense. You know, I see it more as sort of talking and becoming a mirror. And then people are just sort of intellectually lazy in finding a negative response to that. Right. Yes.

[Paul]

Just a few more. All right. If this is a great one. If Super Nanny launched.

[Jo Frost]

You see what I mean? They're almost Super Nanny. It's like, that's the badger, you know, the badger will wear. Not that I mind it. I'm like. But you know what? It's the people you can't ask me exactly. The people call me.

[Paul]

So if Super Nanny was launched this year.

[Jo Frost]

If Super Nanny was launched this year.

[Paul]

Yeah. This was the first year.

[Jo Frost]

That would make a lot of people happy, let me tell you. Yeah. Like, come back on tv. Come back on tv. We need you back on tv. I'm like, I would love to come back on television. I would love to help families. You know, the likely chances that show being called Super Nanny is extremely low.

[Paul]

Well, let's.

[Jo Frost]

It's the work. You know, Super Nanny's become a verb.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Right. It's a verb now, right?

[Paul]

Yes. So just the concept, though. But if Super Nanny launched this year.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

What would look different?

[Jo Frost]

What would look different if. The concept of what I do. Right. So you're not talking about the Supernanny format. You're talking about the work that I do using Super Nanny as a verb.

[Paul]

Yeah.

[Jo Frost]

Right. So, you know, if I came back on screens helping families, how different would that be?

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

It would be grounded in the staple of what people still want from me. Right. But you would see different circumstances. You know, we've evolved. I mean, we've had recessions, We've had Covid. You know, families are exhausted. They have burnout. We have technology. I mean, things have changed. You know, parenting has evolved. It's different. I don't think parenting is any harder. I don't think parenting is any harder. I think what's made parenting as a verb more difficult is the lack of what we have in place to the resources, the system to help families. But, you know, I been doing this a long time, and I wouldn't say like, oh, it's much more harder now. Much. Because raising children has always been challenging. You know, I just think that when you don't have systems in place, when you don't have the resource, when you have been stripped of things, it's been very different.

[Paul]

All right, if you've made it this far, I know you're loving the conversation, so please do me one small favor. Hit that bell, icon. Join our community.

[Jo Frost]

Thank you.

[Paul]

I think we have two more. That's it. Okay. Oh, this is a great one. What is the difference between discipline in the UK versus the US So, and this is discipline on the child.

[Jo Frost]

What I've recognized as a Brit living in. In America is that there seems to be an influence around religion and how parents discipline their children. And my religion is family, you know, and politically, what's important to me is that family values are not hijacked by any party. You know, I think it's important that we all stand by strong family values and standards in how we raise our children. Like it's different when you really live here. Like I have to say goodbye to my child and realize that, shit, my kid might not come home today. My kid might not come home today because my kid might get shot dead by another child. Like I'm just gonna stop there. I'm just gonna stop there because we will talk for another couple of hours as what that looks like of how unsupported the black American man or woman is as a parent. You know, I'm married to a black American man, you know, and I've witnessed that on him. I've seen that personally, you know, that's a whole nother comeback. And let's have a whole nother conversation, Paul.

[Paul]

That's a ten part episode right there. Yeah, yeah, it's a ten part episode.

[Jo Frost]

Yeah.

[Paul]

I mean that's a whole, you know, on that note. Cause I'm glad you went there is when people.

[Jo Frost]

We have to go there, Paul.

[Paul]

We have to go there.

[Jo Frost]

Just us, I'm talking about as a collective, as a world. We have to go there. Yes, we have to go there.

[Paul]

Yes. So a lot of people will say, Paul, why are you in the uk? Like, you know, I always get this, why are you in the uk? It is in essence what you've just talked about. Whereas where we lived in the United States, we did not know if our child would come back home alive. Like there was an open question mark. If they were to go out, would they be able to come back?

[Jo Frost]

Right, Absolutely.

[Paul]

Specifically as a result of gun violence. Right. This was a question that we had. And then you add onto that racism.

[Jo Frost]

Correct.

[Paul]

With gun violence. And that increases the likelihood specifically of my black child.

[Jo Frost]

Correct.

[Paul]

Not coming back home.

[Jo Frost]

Correct.

[Paul]

And then we, we get to the UK and yes, the UK has lots of problems.

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

But that specific problem was not at the same level, not at the same magnitude. And it became not even a question for us at that moment, at that, that moment in time.

[Jo Frost]

And I don't think it would be for me at all, you know. Cause I've watched, I've watched my husband be profiled spread eagle, you know, in, in a nice part of America. Right. I say nice part, right? Because that's what I say. Oh, it's a nice part of America. And then you realize what they're talking about is, you know, a part of America where there's hardly any black people living. Right. You know, just. I just want to keep it real here, Paul.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, living in this country right now in America is extremely difficult and extremely frustrating. But this, you know, this, this conversation's a difficult conversation because it was only several days ago that there was a woman shot. But she's a mother.

[Paul]

She's a mother. Absolutely. You know what, I'm so glad that you're talking about this, because I think if you are not someone who loves children, if you're not someone who's aware of children, this probably doesn't hit your radar. But you know that there is not one morning when this is in London, right, where my children are going off to school, where I'm not consciously aware, where I feel my stress level elevated. Just in the process of them going to their bus and then ensuring that they're at school, and then the moment that they. I get that text that they're at school, stress level drops. I can now really go about my day. But then on their way back, it's stress level goes up. Can they get back to the house? They're back at the house. Stress level goes, right? And that's every day, every day, every day, every day.

[Jo Frost]

And in the uk, you know, as in America, because again, there used to be that moment maybe 20 years ago, you go, oh, it's a little bit behind, and then it's going to catch up. But now with social media, one thing goes out. The whole world, you know, sees it, and that's that. That has been a very good thing, right, because it's been able to show a lot of negative and some justice that needed to be taken place or justice that isn't being taken place. Right. However, it doesn't diminish the fact that we have parents living in both countries with an enormous amount of anxiety. And that just. Man, that punishes the body. It takes the toll. It takes its toll on the body. You know, over time you think, oh, it's like, you know, and then over time, over time it just chips away and that chips away at the decisions you make and the amount of energy that you have. And, you know, the, the projection then on your family. You know, it's difficult for families. It's really difficult for families. And at a time, but it's really difficult for families. I'm asking families to dig deeper, to dig deeper and go, am I just gonna watch this all pass, or am I gonna take my family and put it on the map and go, these are the decisions we're making for 2026. We need to talk, we need to talk, we need to talk. We need to Sit around a table. You and I, we need to talk about our kids. We need to talk about the decisions we're going to make from here to June. We need to talk about what we're going to do to make sure that actually we are close as a family, but we've also got our own space. We need to offload ourself. We need to be in a space with our partners where we can just be vulnerable. You know, I love the idea of this, but I'm fucking petrified, you know? And I will fight tooth and nail for our family, but, boy, it scares me. I hear you like I hear you.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

It's all right to feel scared. Cause I feel the same way as well. What are we gonna do about it, babes? What are we gonna do about it? What will we do about it? Together?

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Like, let's talk about this. You have to talk.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You have to talk.

[Paul]

Yeah. It's truly where it begins and ends is in the conversation. And I've always believed that the harder the conversations we're able to have. Right?

[Jo Frost]

Yes.

[Paul]

Just the higher quality of life we get.

[Jo Frost]

We have to have those conversations. Not all of us know what to say. I don't know all the time what to say. Sometimes I stumble. And I'm well versed with communication.

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

You know, and the levels of what that means. But, you know, sometimes. Sometimes we can't find words for the depth of what our heart feels at times. Sometimes we just. We just can't. But is the energy there that that other person can feel that. Is the intention true? Is it genuine? Is it loving? Because if it is, whatever's gonna be said, we know it was coming from a good place.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

Because people generally wanna do good.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

They do want to do good.

[Paul]

Yes.

[Jo Frost]

They might have not said the right thing. And we are very. We can be forgiving, you know, to our true friends. And I know they're their best interest at heart. You know, they. They love us somehow a bit.

[Paul]

But, you know, they meant well, the intention. Intentionality is everything. And it's interesting because in the romantic relationship space, it's always about intentionality. Same thing with parenting. It is same thing with parenting.

[Jo Frost]

Because if you get that right, then you're children. They're very forgiving. Look how many times parents screw up unconditionally. Your children. Yeah, hi.

[Paul]

Yeah, still there.

[Jo Frost]

Like, all right, dad. Still, you know, but can you say. Can you apologize? Can you apologize to your children? Can you turn around and say, you know what? I just lost it, and I'm sorry. And I'm so sorry. Like, you know what? I lost my call.

[Paul]

You know, what's really resonating with me is as I'm reflecting on the conversation we had is for those new parents, for those who haven't yet had the child but are pregnant, thinking about the child. Just had the child. Right. This is going to be so, so valuable.

[Jo Frost]

Well, for, you know, I've, I've literally, I've had that. Like, I've had, you know, I remember I was in Chicago Airport and a couple came up to me and they were like, oh, my God, we watch your shows. We watch your shows all the time. We watch our. Like, I just, look, I just got engaged. Like, we watch your shows. We going to have children. We're going to have children. Like, what would you, what advice would you give us? And I'm like, well, first and foremost, congratulations. Right, right. Talk. All I would say to you right now in this stage, talk to each other, Talk to each other about how you were raised, what you loved about it, what you didn't love about it. You know, how you want to raise your own children. What's important to you? What do those values look like? Like, you work in this relationship department, Paul. Like, do you know how much time and effort and talking when you're dating someone? Like, you're all there, you're taking them out. You're not. You put down the phone. No, you put down the phone. No, you put down the phone. I can put down the phone. No, you put down the phone. And you know, you're like all hyped up and you're talking and you go out for dinner and then like, marriage happens and then crickets stops. Crickets. Like everything stops. And you're like, how? How? Yes, right. But you have to also, because again, I'm putting in the decades of seeing this, you have to also realize that there has been media that has also conditioned. That's changing now. Women like you would see in magazines, oh, this is how you capture the man of your dreams. And this is how you don't ask him about how many children he may want or don't ask him. You know about this. And you're like, no, ask. Because if you're sitting in front of somebody that can't answer those questions or is offended by those questions. Thank you very much. That was really nice. Goodbye. Thank you very much. I think I'm going a second date now.

[Paul]

You know, I mean, to the point of. Even when you were talking about, you know, you're talking about the importance of that emotional connection is like, you have to talk. You know, you talked about, we need to talk, right? What do we need to do in 2020? It's like, this is the through. The through is in the conversation. The through is have the courage to show up. And when you show up, you will be rewarded. Always. You will be rewarded 100% of the time. But now, talking about conversations, yes, this is another question, but this is the final question that everyone gets right? When you think back to all of the incredible conversations you've had in your entire life, which one stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with and why was it so memorable? What was the lesson?

[Jo Frost]

I think I'd like. I think personally in this conversation, I would like to honor my mother, who was, you know, my biggest role model, you know, in my life for the age that I am. You know, there are people in social media where, you know, they look up and they're inspired, and, you know, I inspire so many. But in my life, you know, we didn't have so much of that growing up, right? You know, there wasn't that in abundance, but my mother sure as hell was that. You know, a woman who was compassionate, that. That loved hard, you know, that was a beautiful mother and a loving wife and a dear friend, you know, and a woman who just had so much love and class. And I miss her. And, you know, I think to myself that if I can be half the woman that she was in the world and. And the impact that she had on her family and friends and community, then I'm doing a really good job, you know, and my mother was certainly someone who I spoke to a lot when I was younger about my intuitiveness, you know, just a knowing and being rather confused about that when I was younger of what is this that I feel? And I don't know how to explain it, Mum, but it's like. I know it's like with a conviction, you know, and she knew cause she was that way. She knew cause she was that way.

[Paul]

That's who you got it from.

[Jo Frost]

She knew cause she was that way. So, you know, I remember having a conversation in my teenage years, you know, where that conversation was about, it's okay if you don't understand it right now, and it's okay if you've even not trusted it at times, because the outcome will teach you a lesson, right? But to embrace that, it's part of who you are, and that makeup is who I am as the woman I am today with the impact that I make today. Because that's the makeup of who I am. Because the work that I do educating families is a makeup of nearly four decades of experience and the makeup of who I am as a human being. Yes. You know, yes. And so that. That was a beautiful conversation because that is who I am. And that's something that I love about who I am. And it means that I feel deeper and it means that, you know, emotionally sometimes it can be very heavy or hard to handle at times, you know, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Paul]

Yeah, I know you wouldn't. I know you wouldn't.

[Jo Frost]

I wouldn't.

[Paul]

You know, I will say this, and you're going to say, oh, Paul's just gassing me up. But no, this is not me just gassing you up is, I think, about icons and what it means to be iconic. And to me, it is the. There is notoriety, there's a skill that that person possesses, but most important, there's a respect that a large group has and they show on this particular person or they should I say they give to that particular person and that these are the pieces of an icon. Right. Iconic. And there are very few people in television who are iconic, I believe. Very few. Very few. You, Joe, are hands down one of the most iconic people ever to land on a television screen. Like, one of the most iconic.

[Jo Frost]

Thank you.

[Paul]

Globally. But what I realized in this conversation is what has allowed you to get there is your mom.

[Jo Frost]

She's been with me all the way. She's been with me in this whole journey. She wasn't alive when this happened, but she sure as hell was. You know, she's around. She's.

[Paul]

Ana, you are unapologetic. You are truly unapologetic. And that is what made those formats work. And I think that there is no way that I will ever be able to not see you and separate you from someone who's unapologetic, but also someone who is passionate about children. This. You are passionate.

[Jo Frost]

I am. I'm fiercely.

[Paul]

You are fiercely passionate about children. And I wanna say this has been a huge honor to have you here with us, and I cannot wait to see what the next. Cause you kept referring to the level up. So I cannot wait to see what the next chapter holds for you.

[Jo Frost]

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you so much and for giving me this opportunity. I appreciate that.

[Paul]

Oh, thank you.

[Jo Frost]

Thank you.

[Paul]

This was a masterclass, I'm telling you. Thank you. Every parent is going to need to watch this. Jo Frost. Not super nanny Jo Frost. Her level of integrity is far and beyond what I see from many people on reality television, quite honestly, Joe Frost needs to be in a format like this. This was not the Joe Frost that I saw on television. We got a little bit more, you know, we got a little more flavor, a little more. There was, there was, there was sauce on it. You know what I mean? And I really, really like. I always already liked Joe. I now love Joe. So one practical point that I'm taking away is you don't have to address the thing right there. I love that, you know, something happens, my child does something. It doesn't have to be addressed in that moment. It can be addressed later, it can be addressed tomorrow. Right. The focus should be on do they feel safe. That's something that just personally, I'll always hold near and dear to my heart. So I love that. I love that. There were a few moments where I was going to say you appeared to be emotional. She was walking on the edge of her emotion the entire time that we were talking, which just shows you how deeply she cares about children, man. She's just so real and raw at the same time. And we need more. We need more of. We need more of Jada like we do. Like we need her, her voice today more than ever.

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

I just had this instant fear of Dave. My mom came in. Dave's asked me to marry him. The next night she came home black and blue and he had a son of shotgun to her head. We had to go into hiding. She said, Dave's your real dad.

[Jo Frost]

Atomic. Atomic. Atomic.

[Paul]

Kerry Katona.

[Jo Frost]

I'm a celebrity. Number one worldwide.

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

I knew from the age of five I was gonna be famous. I wanted to matter. The situations I've been put in as a child, no child should ever be in. It got to a point, it nearly killed me. Life changed overnight. I remember thinking like I was a superstar. Everyone took the piss. No one believed it. I said, I'm in the girl band. Honestly went number one in 19 countries.

[Paul]

You were in one of the hottest groups in the uk. And then you leave.

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

The climb to fainting part was amazing. Getting there, hated it. Somebody posted a hand written letter wishing me baby to die. When you're in a girl band, it's not glamorous at all. You work your off. You're giving everything for free. Oh, we was only like £2 50 a week. So anyway, we had Liz and Heidi. One of them didn't like one or the other and one of them slapped somebody. Anyway.

[Paul]

Can we talk about that? You said one of them slapped one of them.

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

I wasn't there nothing do with me?

[Paul]

Did you and Brian meet?

[Guest/Other Interviewee]

I only found out after we got married that. That Brian had cheated on his stag do. He rang me up and he said, I want a divorce. I had such a breakdown over Brian. I was a mess. I was doing drugs. And now you've got yourself so low, you're in rehab. How did I get here? And I made so many mistakes. So many.

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