We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson
Episode: The Man Behind Attachment Styles Explains Secure Love (April 23, 2026)
Episode Overview
This episode features Dr. Amir Levine—psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and co-author of the seminal book Attached—discussing his latest work, Secure, and delving deep into the concept of secure love, attachment styles, and what genuinely creates connection in relationships. Paul C. Brunson, the host, brings forward challenging questions, unpacks myths about attachment, and explores Dr. Levine’s personal journey and practical tools for building healthier bonds.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Redefining Boundaries in Relationships
[01:28 – 04:57]
- Controversial Take — “Relationships Don’t Need Boundaries”:
Dr. Amir Levine questions the utility of hard boundaries, suggesting they're fundamentally different from healthy negotiation and responsiveness.- “From an attachment perspective... it's a couple’s dance... you correct your steps and learn how to do it better. But it’s different than saying, ‘No, I’m drawing a line in the sand here.’ It creates a disconnect in the relationship.” — Dr. Amir Levine [02:04]
- Emphasizes the importance of “asks” instead of “ultimatums.”
- “Why is that a boundary? I don't see that as a boundary. That's like an ask. It's a beautiful ask.” — Dr. Amir Levine [03:43]
- Secure relationships focus on negotiation and attunement to each other’s needs—suggesting activities or rituals (like “date night”) should be open for adaptation based on mutual comfort.
2. Security Is Not Static
[04:57 – 06:54]
- Attachment styles can shift depending on relationships and environments.
- “Are you saying that if you are secure as an adult, but you are in a close relationship with someone who’s anxious… you can actually shift from being secure?” — Host [04:57]
- “Oh, 100%.” — Dr. Amir Levine [05:20]
- Secure partners can help others become more secure with small acts of empathy and re-framing.
- Story about a stressful street crossing: “My partner said, maybe she sped up so we can cross faster... He gave me a different way of looking at it.” — Dr. Amir Levine [05:41]
- Dr. Levine emphasizes energy spent adapting positively rather than getting stuck in negativity.
3. Formative Childhood Influences and Intellectual Curiosity
[06:54 – 09:43]
- Dr. Levine shares his unconventional upbringing: no grades, emphasis on creativity and open inquiry fostered by his mother.
- “She didn’t believe in grades… I could always stay at home and not go to school, especially on days we had exams. I read a lot... even things I maybe shouldn’t have, like the Kama Sutra at seven!” — Dr. Amir Levine [07:26 and 08:56]
- The environment was rich in intellectual and emotional openness, laying the foundation for his scientific approach and empathy.
- He reflects on the pragmatic benefits: “I ended up getting good grades because I ended up going to medical school. And somehow it all worked.” [09:34]
4. Attachment Styles and Personal Reflection
[11:26 – 14:48]
- Dr. Levine maps his own “attachment topography,” sharing:
- He is secure with his partner and family, more avoidant with friends, and has experienced anxiety in earlier relationships.
- “It's hard for me to create something all alone… I don't think any of us do. With my partner, definitely secure. With my friends, a little more avoidant… In earlier relationships, I was anxious.” — Dr. Amir Levine [12:25-14:17]
- His journey writing Secure started as an educational resource to help young people and others develop security in relationships:
- “No one teaches that, so kids will have a better framework… Even at 87, people can benefit from learning secure relationships.” — Dr. Amir Levine [14:17]
5. Parenting and Building Security in Children
[14:49 – 17:08]
- Debunks the myth that childhood attachment permanently dictates adult attachment.
- “There’s a lot more that contributes to your attachment style in adulthood than what happened to you as a child... Take the sting of blame off parents.” — Dr. Amir Levine [15:06]
- Parents should focus on teaching children about consistency, availability, and responsiveness (Dr. Levine’s “CARP” principles).
- Example: A misguided response from a mother teaches insecurity rather than resilience.
- “If you don’t have the lingo, sometimes parents do the opposite.” — Dr. Amir Levine [16:43]
6. Most Memorable Conversation and the Power of Security
[17:14 – 18:24]
- Dr. Levine shares an emotional story about walks and talks with his mother.
- “We’d walk and then realize, oh, the conversation isn’t over yet, so we'd walk back... That’s what I was thinking about.” — Dr. Amir Levine [17:29]
- This memory illustrates how secure attachment is rooted in feeling profoundly seen and understood.
7. Host’s Reflections and Takeaways
[19:09 – 26:12]
- Paul C. Brunson praises Dr. Levine’s translation of attachment theory for adults, highlighting Secure for its practical guidance beyond romantic relationships.
- “He destroyed the myth of your attachment style as a child translating to your attachment style as an adult. That's completely mislabeled. That is a myth.” — Host [approx. 20:50]
- Explores his own attachment pattern, noting the relief that comes from understanding and accepting one’s own style.
- Appreciates the tools for creating “CARP” interactions (consistent, available, reliable, predictable) in all types of relationships.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On boundaries and negotiation:
- “From an attachment perspective… relationships are a dance… it's different than drawing a line in the sand.” — Dr. Amir Levine [02:04]
-
On changing attachment styles:
- “You can shift to being not secure… Secures are amazing at helping people shift their [attachment].” — Dr. Amir Levine [05:20]
-
On childhood influence:
- "There was such an openness to explore… my mom didn't believe in grades… the grades they were looking for were 'original' and 'thought-provoking.'" — Dr. Amir Levine [08:56]
-
On writing his book:
- “No one teaches security… so I started it off as something to prepare kids for college and high school, to give them a better framework.” — Dr. Amir Levine [14:17]
-
On raising secure children:
- “There's more that contributes to your attachment style as an adult than just what happened as a child… so take the blame off parents.” — Dr. Amir Levine [15:06]
-
On his most memorable conversation:
- “We’d walk and then we’d realize, the conversation’s not over… So we’d walk back, and then we’d walk again.” — Dr. Amir Levine [17:29]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [01:28] Redefining boundaries—relationships as a seamless dance
- [03:43] The difference between an “ask” and a “boundary”
- [04:57] Impact of partners’ styles; shifting in and out of security
- [06:54] Dr. Levine’s unconventional, creative upbringing
- [11:26] Dr. Levine’s personal attachment topography
- [14:49] Parental impact and debunking the attachment myth
- [17:29] The most memorable conversation: walks with his mother
- [19:09] Host’s personal reflections and takeaways
Final Takeaways
Dr. Amir Levine’s appearance on the podcast challenges conventional views of relationships, specifically around boundaries, and offers a nuanced, compassionate framework for cultivating secure love. Listeners gain:
- Practical distinctions between boundaries, asks, and negotiation in relationships
- Reassurance that attachment styles are dynamic and not dictated by early childhood alone
- Tools (“CARP”) for fostering security—especially relevant for parents and educators
- Deep, personal reflections on the power of curiosity, open dialogue, and meaningful human connection
As Dr. Levine sums it up: “I hope with this one, I even gave a clear roadmap to how to do it, just beyond the romantic relationships. That was really important to me.” [18:58]