The Quiet Struggles We Carry Alone

Summary

Podcast Summary

We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson
Episode: The Quiet Struggles We Carry Alone
Release Date: May 14, 2026
Guests: Charlie Macy
Host: Paul C. Brunson

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Overview

In this deeply honest and vulnerable Mental Health Awareness Week episode, Paul C. Brunson sits down with author and illustrator Charlie Macy. The conversation centers on the invisible battles we all face: anxiety, grief, loneliness, and the critical role of connection and self-compassion in healing. Both Paul and Charlie discuss their personal struggles and share insights on how vulnerability, self-acceptance, and authentic friendship can lighten even the heaviest internal burdens.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the “Darkest Period”: Unseen Struggles and Memory (00:27–03:52)

• Charlie Macy reflects that the “darkest” times in life aren’t always easily recognized in the moment. Painful memories from childhood (e.g., difficult experiences at boarding school, loss of friends) and lurking, unprocessed emotions accumulate until they demand attention.
  • "A lot of our lives are spent with things going on that we're not hugely aware of... But there's other stuff that we're processing from long ago that's deep within us. Deep. We all have it." – Charlie Macy (02:22)
• The process of recognizing and seeking help often happens only in retrospect, or when triggered by conversation and vulnerability.

2. Love and Connection as Antidotes to Pain (03:52–05:02)

• Love as Antidote: Charlie credits the realization of being loved as a crucial force for resilience.
  • “The notion that, in spite of everything, you're held, you're known, you're loved.” – Charlie Macy (03:45)
• Vulnerability is positioned not as weakness, but as an opening to new possibilities and freedom.
  • "That vulnerability and the act of it is like a window into a whole new world of existence and possibility and freedom." – Charlie Macy (03:57)
• Talking about pain and struggles lessens their power, providing both solace and solidarity.

3. Living with Anxiety: Awareness and Techniques (05:02–08:26)

• Charlie and Paul share their experiences with chronic, sometimes overwhelming, anxiety.
• Techniques for Managing Anxiety:
  • Not being afraid of fear itself: “Don't be anxious of your anxiety because that just means it builds like a wall.” – Charlie Macy (05:59)
  • Breathing exercises: Four seconds in, hold, four seconds out, for two minutes (06:18)
  • Understanding that anxiety sometimes has no specific cause.
  • Engaging in grounding practices (meditation, nature, running, music, drawing).
  • The value of proactively talking about anxiety and feelings with friends.
  • “I have plenty of friends who didn't, and they're not here anymore, and it nailed them.” – Charlie Macy (07:59)

4. The Shame of Struggle & Importance of Openness (08:24–10:12)

• They address the stigma, particularly among men, around admitting to struggles and mental health challenges.
  • “It's not weakness. It's not a failing. A lot of men feel like it's such a failing to struggle with this. It's perfectly normal in this world.” – Charlie Macy (08:26)
• Sensitivity and care are linked to increased anxiety—a sign of deep engagement with life.
• Self-recognition of current struggles, despite progress, is part of the journey.
  • “On the way here, I was panicking. I was going to miss the train... I have that whole thing going on. I’m just a sort of stumbling, fumbling, semi introverted person who… still is winging it.” – Charlie Macy (09:20)

5. Moments of Human Connection (11:06–12:49)

• Story from Zimbabwe: A formative memory while picking tea, where a local worker named John points out, “You're just the same, aren't you?”—an affirmation of shared humanity.
  • "Humanity is just... we're all just the same." – Charlie Macy (11:32)

6. Attention, ADHD, and Drawing as Therapy (13:10–16:08)

• Charlie discusses his possible ADHD and the challenge of presence and focus. He finds solace in drawing:
  • “There are things we can do when we struggle with attention issues that hold us, that... absorb us.” – Charlie Macy (14:26)
  • Drawing helps keep his attention anchored during conversations, serving as a form of meditation and self-regulation.
  • "There's something about making marks that calms me down." – Charlie Macy (15:44)

7. Friendship and the Loss of Unique Connections (16:44–19:20)

• Friendships bring out different facets of who we are. The loss of a friend means the loss of those unique interactions and even parts of oneself.
  • “When someone dies, you sometimes lose that part of you that they brought up. Which really interests me.” – Charlie Macy (17:18)
• Even memories of small rituals with pets (like Charlie’s dog Barney) and children form an emotional legacy that survives loss.
  • “Doing nothing with friends is never doing nothing, is it?” – Charlie Macy (18:48)

8. Grief: Ongoing and in Installments (19:55–21:47)

• Grief is a drip-fed process, too overwhelming to handle all at once.
  • “Grief for me is going in installments... Reality, I can only take in small doses, otherwise it gets too much.” – Charlie Macy (20:01)
• Talking as a Healing Act: Each conversation takes “teaspoons of pain out and it never goes back in.”
  • "The more you talk and process and let go of... so much of life is about letting go." – Charlie Macy (21:23)

9. Loneliness and Male Friendship (21:47–24:09)

• As people age—especially men—their social circles shrink, intensified post-COVID.
  • “Statistics are alarming and since COVID they've got worse.” – Charlie Macy (22:06)
• Staying connected takes conscious effort; it's an act of courage to admit loneliness and fight for friendship.
  • “So many men, they think someone dies, they move away… the ground gets thinner, humanly. So you need to choose friends and fight for them.” – Charlie Macy (23:02)
• Self-love and self-compassion remain a challenge, so maintaining gratitude and dialing down self-criticism is essential.

10. Critical Self-Talk, Gratitude, and Letting Go (24:09–26:54)

• Both men discuss their inner critics and techniques to counter harsh self-judgment.
  • "You'll have critics... Make sure you're not one of them." – Charlie Macy (24:24)
  • "Don't be that critic. Give yourself a break. Give yourself some grace." – Charlie Macy (24:41)
• Gratitude Practice: Paul shares his daily gratitude exercise, which rewires his mind to see the positives in life, even on difficult days.
  • “Sometimes I have three [things], sometimes I'm five, six, seven. This morning... I was struggling. I ended on, I got through it. You know, I'm here, right?... It's the basics. I'm breathing. I'm alive.” – Paul C. Brunson (25:15–25:39)
• Charlie affirms the importance of simply appreciating being present—and quieting the inner critic.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Don't be anxious of your anxiety because that just means it builds like a wall.” – Charlie Macy (05:59)
• “Doing nothing with friends is never doing nothing, is it?” – Charlie Macy (18:48)
• “So many men, they think someone dies, they move away… the ground gets thinner, humanly. So you need to choose friends and fight for them.” – Charlie Macy (23:02)
• "You'll have critics... Make sure you're not one of them." – Charlie Macy (24:24)
• “Sometimes I have three [things], sometimes I'm five, six, seven. This morning... I was struggling... I got through it." – Paul C. Brunson (25:15–25:27)
• “Just be aware that you're amazing and, and breathe and beat and say thank you for being right here.” – Charlie Macy (26:57)

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Important Timestamps

• Darkest Times & Suppressed Struggles – 00:27–03:52
• The Role of Love and Connection – 03:52–05:02
• Coping with Anxiety: Strategies & Stories – 05:02–08:26
• Men, Vulnerability, and Shame – 08:24–10:12
• Humanity and Shared Experience (Zimbabwe Story) – 11:06–12:49
• ADHD & Creative Focus – 13:10–15:59
• Friendship and Grieving Connections – 16:44–19:20
• Ongoing Grief & Conversation as Healing – 19:55–21:47
• Loneliness and Male Friendship – 21:47–24:09
• The Inner Critic & Daily Gratitude – 24:09–26:54

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Final Takeaway

This episode gently reminds us that carrying hidden struggles is universal—and healing begins with honest conversation, compassion for oneself, and tending to our connections. Vulnerability, gratitude, and small acts of sharing pain can build resilience for both ourselves and those we care about.

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Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Interviewer Paul]

Welcome to We're Talking this Mental Health Awareness Week. We sit down with Charlie Macy for a deeply honest conversation about anxiety, grief, and the quiet struggles we often carry alone. Charlie reflects on the moments that shaped him and why connection, not perfection, is what truly matters. Would you say that the darkest period of your life was happening while you were creating either this book or the first book? Was that the darkest period?

[Charlie Macy]

I don't think it was.

[Interviewer Paul]

What was the darkest? If we could tap into that.

[Charlie Macy]

They stay with me. Yes, I have memories. They're. They're dark moments where, you know, things catch up with you, things you've been running from, and it causes this. What do I do with this?

[Interviewer Paul]

What have you been running from?

[Charlie Macy]

Well, I think, you know, there was something where, like when I was a boy, that boarding school, there were some dark things that went on and then losing friends. And I think we all have periods which are extremely difficult and cause us to go into dark places. And we don't know what to do when we're in them. And sometimes I'm not even sure we actually recognize we're in them. We're just fighting to stick, to stay and we eat cake or whatever it is that's helping. It's often in retrospect, we go, whoa, that was hard. Or we're talking to a friend and we find ourselves talking fast and we start getting emotional. Tears pour, and we didn't even know it was there. And I think a lot of our lives are spent with things going on that we're not hugely aware of. They can be real, like cancer or whatever it is we're suffering. That's obvious. But there's other stuff that we're processing from long ago that's deep within us. Deep. We all have it. And so I suppose I can't put a finger on, say, that was the darkest time of my life. But there've been times when I've. I've been aware of it and it's caused me to seek help or caused me to question or need to process something. And so I think I've drawn on those times and the return to love. The mole says, where did your strength come from? When he reconnects from remembering I am loved. It's that notion of light, a notion of connection, the notion that in spite of everything, you're held, you're known, you're loved.

[Interviewer Paul]

Has that been the antidote? Has love been the antidote for your mental health?

[Charlie Macy]

Yeah, it's been a huge thing. I mean, that vulnerability and the act of it is like a window into a whole new world of existence and possibility and freedom that you can tell, you can say this. And it's the most courageous thing and it's just letting a door open. And I used to be terrified of that door because what was going to happen if I dared open it? Like, oh my God, just keep it down and carry on stoically and wow, you know, and it's not easy and it's not immediate, but it's this process of discovery that your visceral, you, raw humanness and humanity is incredible and universal. Yes, universal. Like you're not this free, everybody. We're all. So just talk about it and connect and connect.

[Interviewer Paul]

Has that helped with. Because I know anxiety is something that I've had challenges with for many years. Yeah, I understand. This is definitely same. Huge, same for you. So how do you manage that? How do you manage your anxiety?

[Charlie Macy]

So I remember, I think I've had low, low level anxiety a lot and I've managed intervalism. But then I think that it goes up a level sometimes and presents itself as well. I thought I was dying. Like, I thought my heart was going so fast that I was sort of holding onto the wall and like, what is this? And a friend of mine is a doctor. And I called him, I said, I think, I think I might be dying. He said, describe to me what you feel. I said, my heart's going a thousand miles. I don't know. I have to cling to you. He said, I think I'm going to talk you down from this. And he said, the first thing you need to do is not be frightened of what you're feeling. Don't be frightened of it. It's okay. And he taught me how to not be fearful of the fear itself. Don't be anxious of your anxiety because that just means it builds like a wall.

[Interviewer Paul]

Is there a technique that you could share that was effective?

[Charlie Macy]

He taught me well. There was the breathing thing. He said, you're a shallow breather.

[Interviewer Paul]

Okay? Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

So he did the four seconds in, hold it four seconds out, do that for two minutes. So I did that and then we discussed A lot about how anxiety can be triggered by nothing at all. It doesn't need a valid context or circumstance that can just come out of nowhere, which it still does. I'm just like, what? What is that?

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

So I do breathing, and I tell myself to not fear it. And there's a page in the book about that. Sometimes things spin out of control and remember that you are not the storm. It's not you, so it's okay. And then, obviously, in times when it's not going on, practice things that help you, whether it's meditation, nature, running. Some pray, some breathe, some meditate. All these things.

[Interviewer Paul]

Drawing, drawing.

[Charlie Macy]

Connecting with what you love. Talking, talking. Don't be frightened of what you feel. Don't be ashamed of what you feel. Music, like swimming in cold water. You can encourage the healthy. I'm not a neuroscientist, and I would never pretend to know that I understood these things, that I know what works for me and some of my friends. I think for me, the journey has been to get to a place where I'm sitting here with you, Paul. And if I wasn't being filmed, I'd say the same thing, which is that that opened that door and talk about it. I have plenty of friends who didn't, and they're not here anymore, and it nailed them. And I sometimes re. It's pointless, regret. It's a silly thing, but imagine if we'd had the time to really talk about it.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

It's not weakness. It's not a failing. A lot of men feel like it's such a failing to struggle with this. It's perfectly normal in this world. We live in a crazy world. And if you're sensitive, you feel things, you're gonna feel this. It's like with you, you're an extremely connected, brilliant minded, highly sensitive individual who's bound to feel anxious at times because you care so much. The more you care, I think the more anxious you're gonna be about your kids, the world, what's gonna happen tomorrow, what's going on here. I think not to feel that is almost being numb. So. Wow. Yeah. But I think it's how we respond to that and how we look after ourselves, you know, that really matters.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

And I know, you know, sitting here, like, in saying these words that I have, like, such a long way to go. On the way here, I was panicking. I was going to miss the train. I forgot to lock the door. I had to zoom back. I had locked it. I just thought I had. I have that whole thing Going on. Did I Deny, deny, try. Okay, I'll go back. Minutes to spare. When I arrive at station, I'm just a sort of stumbling, fumbling, semi introverted person who doesn't still is winging it. But I think we can all we're learning from each other and the more we can talk about it, the more we'll learn, you know?

[Interviewer Paul]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Charlie Macy]

Like I don't know much Paul, but it.

[Interviewer Paul]

Just acknowledging it.

[Charlie Macy]

There you go. Yeah, I think that's the key to everything is connection, communication. Putting your hand up, going, this is

[Interviewer Paul]

me, this is me. Why are we doing this?

[Charlie Macy]

Why are we. By the way, I don't mean to get all heavy here, I don't mean to. Paul.

[Interviewer Paul]

This is a heavy conversation. And what I love most about these conversations is that this is one of those rare opportunities for so many people. This is your opportunity to just reflect with no judgment whatsoever and go back to Zimbabwe and sit there picking the tea. That's what this opportunity is about, that moment.

[Charlie Macy]

Okay, so when I was picking the tea. Plucking tea is difficult. Like I earned $0.01. Literally everyone else is making $2 a day, which is not much. And I remember this guy John who was trying to teach me to pluck and he was laughing at me because, you know, he was the. The elegance of his movements was just like a machine and they were laughing at me. And there was one time at lunchtime when everyone, we were all laughing and John, I remember John stopping, like he was just looking at me. You know, you get to the moment where there's this strange pause and he was nodding and I was like, what? He said, you're just the same, aren't you? And I said, yeah. He said, we're just the same. We're all just the same. And it was just like, oh, wow, humanity is just. Here's white boy from Battersea, John. Sub Saharan.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

Poverty stricken, you know. And we had this moment when I went and it was that moment lasted and lasted and lasted and lasted. And we were just like, yeah. And I could see his lights going on and mine. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer Paul]

Oh yeah. It's interesting. I feel like we do this, we do it to this day, but we have to be fully connected and emotionally aware in order to fully, fully download.

[Charlie Macy]

Download, yes. And willing. And open. Yes, there is all this division, but come on. Yeah, doesn't need to be.

[Interviewer Paul]

No, I mean this is. You can argue that we're more divided today than ever. You can really make that argument.

[Charlie Macy]

You could. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer Paul]

I also, you Know, we haven't talked about. So you were diagnosed with adhd, Is that correct?

[Charlie Macy]

Or was it. Yeah. Or various people. Doctors said, I don't know whether you died, but yeah. I mean, people have said, you. You're on the spectrum, which I think, fine.

[Interviewer Paul]

Okay.

[Charlie Macy]

He's like, yep, I don't mind that this is me. And it's evident to me that I definitely struggle with it because in conversations, my brain will drift into eight different areas. And people say, is Charlie here today or not?

[Interviewer Paul]

Well, I see Charlie is definitely here today.

[Charlie Macy]

I feel very present here.

[Interviewer Paul]

You are here.

[Charlie Macy]

But sometimes, like, I'm just removed. I'm thinking about ideas or something isn't holding me in the moment.

[Interviewer Paul]

Okay.

[Charlie Macy]

Or I'm unaware that I'm not even there.

[Interviewer Paul]

Ah, I see.

[Charlie Macy]

Which is why it shocked me when my friend said, is Charlie here today or isn't he? I'm like, oh, I wasn't aware that I'm sometimes not. People sort of say, or used to say to me, your attention span is terrible. And yet you manage to do all these drawings. You gotta have real attention to do them. And I think I realized that there are things we can do when we struggle with attention issues that hold us that. So absorb us, that we. And it's a place that I. With drawings, I can just disappear into. And I can just. And there's something about. You know, I've got this iPad here where I can scribble on. So I have this and this. I normally draw with ink, but for the sake of argument, I can make marks. And I can similarly do. Sometimes if I'm on the phone, I find myself drawing the boy. On a branch without even realizing, without thinking what I'm really doing. The boy just comes out. Or, you know, or I'll be thinking about talking about what I'm doing in the morning. Or someone's talking to me, and I'll be listening, but, you know, I'll be. You know, this comes out, you know, oh, there's.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yeah, there's the horse.

[Charlie Macy]

You see what I'm saying? So. But the lines keep me focused.

[Interviewer Paul]

The lines are actually making.

[Charlie Macy]

Making the marks.

[Interviewer Paul]

Okay.

[Charlie Macy]

It's something about making marks that calms me down.

[Interviewer Paul]

So if you're making.

[Charlie Macy]

Holds my attention.

[Interviewer Paul]

So could you make marks and the two of us have a conversation at the same time? You could do that, yeah.

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[Interviewer Paul]

Okay. Could we continue our conversation?

[Charlie Macy]

And you and I'll just keep drawing

[Interviewer Paul]

and you doodle a little bit.

[Charlie Macy]

Okay?

[Interviewer Paul]

Okay. So let's talk about. While doodling. This is probably the best topic is friendship.

[Charlie Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer Paul]

With your friends in your friendship circle, what do you do? What's a Charlie hangout? Friend hangout. Are you playing poker? Are you watching reality television?

[Charlie Macy]

What are you? You know, we talk. We. It varies. My friends are quite eclectic and very different. So we all have really. And they bring out different parts of. Of me.

[Interviewer Paul]

Okay.

[Charlie Macy]

Which is why when someone dies, you sometimes lose that part of you that they brought up. Which really interests me. It is I've lost quite a few friends. And the bits we used to laugh about and the silly noises we made and Iran, unless I can. But they're so unique. And when I lost Barney, lovely Barney, my dog, who was also my friend, there was a language I used with him. And I used to say every morning when I before I've heard him, I used to say, you're an extremely good little chap.

[Interviewer Paul]

Right.

[Charlie Macy]

And I would extend the word extremely, and he'd go crazy with the word extremely because you're extra, extra, extra special like that. And it was his language. And what's amazing for me with those words is that Colm, my Irish friend's daughter, Emilia, who's four, when we were making the book together, I would. Sometimes she would say, how did you speak to Barony? She'd say, I say you're extreme. And so she. Now he films her running around the garden going, you're extra special. You're extremely good at the show. And so for me, that. That's something that hasn't died. And I suppose friends to me, going back to the original are we can relish the uniqueness. Parts of each other that only are there with each other. And I love that. And they're friends who I can. You know, people, you know, doing nothing with friends is never doing nothing, is it? And that's a line from a book which I think I like, because you don't need to be doing a thing. You don't need to be going to football or watching. You can just literally do this and chat or go for a walk and talk about anything. Just sitting in silence is doing an awful lot. You don't need to fill it, you know?

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes. Now, you mentioned something that's near and dear to my heart. And that was when you said that when someone passes, when a friend passes away, there's something lost. Right.

[Charlie Macy]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Paul]

So often on we need to Talk, I've referred to a friend of mine named Andre Smith. He was my best friend. He passed away a few years ago. And you said something that now I'm just reflecting on for the first time, and that is that I noticed that there's a part of me that died with him.

[Charlie Macy]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Paul]

And.

[Charlie Macy]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Paul]

And so I wonder, you said, you mentioned you've had many friends who have passed.

[Charlie Macy]

Too many.

[Interviewer Paul]

Do you feel like you've properly grieved for them?

[Charlie Macy]

That's a great question. I would say in honesty, no. But I think grief for me is going in installments. And when I was a kid, I had a record by Art Garfunkel and one of the lines was reality. It's not for me. And it makes me laugh. And I remember thinking, I like that, because reality, I can only take in small doses, otherwise it gets too much. I think probably the subconscious is quite good on one level about drip feeding stuff to us, because sometimes it's just overwhelmed.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yeah. Too much.

[Charlie Macy]

Too much. But I think probably what I don't do, enough of which I should probably do, is doing what you and I are doing, hence the title of your podcast. Yes. Because I think there's something about the act of talking I think takes teaspoons of pain out and it never goes back in. I don't think it ever returns. It's a teaspoon, but it's something.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

And so the more you talk and process and let go of. And I remember when I was young reading somewhere that so much of life is about letting go. And I got really cross at that. I know it's not, but it is. Learning to let go.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes, but we're learning through, as you mentioned, through conversation.

[Charlie Macy]

Yes, we are.

[Interviewer Paul]

Through connection.

[Charlie Macy]

Yes.

[Interviewer Paul]

But what we also know, unfortunately for men in particular, that our social circles shrink.

[Charlie Macy]

Yes, they do.

[Interviewer Paul]

So as we all get old, I mean, for everyone, our social circles shrink when we get older, but it's disproportionate for men.

[Charlie Macy]

Yes, it is. Yes, it really is.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

I read that really recently as well, that the statistics are alarming and since COVID they've got worse.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

And a good friend of mine the other day, who is so able and capable and bright and, you know, to anyone looking at him, on the surface, he has everything. He just called me up and then I said, how are you doing? He Said, I'm really lonely. Do you get lonely? And I said, yeah, I do get lonely. He said, well, let's work at not being lonely then. And it struck me, and I thought, you know, it's something that does take effort.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

That these default relationships, because you're around someone, and therefore you don't have to make the effort. There's a different thing. But so many men, they think someone dies, they move away. This happens. This happens. And people, you know, the ground gets thinner, humanly. So you need to choose friends and fight for them. Work in it and have the courage. Ever since he said that, I thought, whoa, that was a courageous thing to say. And my biggest struggle is the idea that I can love myself and my neighbor. I can't do that very well. That's what the journey of this has been all about, is how do you see yourself? How do you hold yourself? How do you value yourself? How do you not throw yourself away in situations? How do you keep believing that you're enough? That you're worth it? I think if you can. If you can somehow be grateful for any situation you're in, it's a good thing. And not beat ourselves up.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

Because I'm a great one for that. You know, in this second book, there's a line where I say, you'll have critics. Thor says, you'll have critics. Make sure you're not one of them. Because I can be here. I'm talking to you, and I'm trying to give my best side, but I can get home and go, oh, Charlie, why did you say that? What are you doing? And look at you. Your jeans. Why? Get some new jeans. And I don't know.

[Interviewer Paul]

It's like, yeah, don't be that critic.

[Charlie Macy]

Don't be that critic.

[Interviewer Paul]

Don't be that.

[Charlie Macy]

Give yourself a break. Give yourself some grace.

[Interviewer Paul]

This is so poetic because. So every morning I do. And I've done this now for almost seven years. I try to do it consistently. Is a gratitude exercise.

[Charlie Macy]

Do you?

[Interviewer Paul]

So I identify three things from the previous day that I'm thankful for. And I'm gonna tell you, Charlie, every morning, boom, pop up. Sometimes I have three. Sometimes I'm five, six, seven. This morning, I don't know what it was. I was struggling.

[Charlie Macy]

Were you?

[Interviewer Paul]

I was struggling. I was thinking, oh, my gosh, what am I thankful for? Yesterday, like, what was it? What was it? And I ended on. I got through it.

[Charlie Macy]

Wow.

[Interviewer Paul]

You know, I'm here, right?

[Charlie Macy]

There you go.

[Interviewer Paul]

You know, but it's the basics.

[Charlie Macy]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Paul]

It is the. I'M breathing.

[Charlie Macy]

There you go. Exactly. I'm alive.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

I can move.

[Interviewer Paul]

The basics.

[Charlie Macy]

The basics.

[Interviewer Paul]

And you know, what that exercise has done for me is it's now almost rewired my mind to look for.

[Charlie Macy]

Oh, wow.

[Interviewer Paul]

The moments in the day, really. So that the next, the following morning, I can now recall that.

[Charlie Macy]

Okay, so they're lodged in you. Not recognized.

[Interviewer Paul]

And that wasn't the intention, but that's what's happened. Which I find to be beautiful. So tomorrow morning I will most likely say just having that conversation with Charlie, I'm thankful for.

[Charlie Macy]

Yeah, well, right now I'm utterly grateful for it. What I'm scared of is going home. Going. Why did you talk about that?

[Interviewer Paul]

Really?

[Charlie Macy]

That's the critic and I need to go. You just sit down because I'm going to be grateful now for getting there, finding Paul Studio.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes.

[Charlie Macy]

Having the courage to go in the door, find out he's a spectacular human. Not screwing up too much in what you say, you know. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you.

[Interviewer Paul]

Yes, exactly. We need to tell the critic to sit down.

[Charlie Macy]

Just, just, just sit down a second. You just. Because right now, and anyone who's listening, you know, or watching and isn't too bored by this, just be aware that you're amazing and, and breathe and beat and say thank you for being right here.

[Interviewer Paul]

And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the we need to Talk page. Drop a, like leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.

[Commercial Narrator]

Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho. Look for that rooftop dinner. Those sandals that can keep up with you. And hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.