What Happens When You Get Famous Young

Summary

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We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson

Episode: What Happens When You Get Famous Young
Date: May 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid and deeply reflective episode, host Paul C. Brunson convenes a conversation with Brian Littrell of Backstreet Boys and Cody Simpson to explore the often-hidden consequences of rapid fame in youth—particularly within the music industry. With honesty and vulnerability, the guests share their personal experiences with exploitation, mental health struggles, substance abuse, and the formidable task of reclaiming agency and identity after early stardom. The discussion also touches on the legacy of notorious music mogul Lou Pearlman, the neuroscience of fame, and the journey to healing and self-redefinition.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of Fame and the Business of Boy Bands

• Lou Pearlman’s Formation of Backstreet Boys
  • Brian Littrell recalls answering an ad (“the blue sheet”) at age 14, leading to an on-the-spot audition at Pearlman’s home and immediate recruitment ([01:14]).
  • Contracts and financial exploitation: Initially informal (“it was more like a handshake”), but soon complicated with legal agreements Brian admits he and his mother didn’t understand ([02:12]).

Brian Littrell: “No, we didn’t read the fine print. We didn’t realize that Lou was 1/6 of the band plus 25% commission...plus getting a kickback under the table from promoters. So he was triple dipping. As well as hiding the biggest Ponzi...scheme in record history.” ([02:12])

• Pearlman’s Model and Competition in Boy Bands
  • Backstreet Boys served as the “guinea pigs” for Pearlman’s boy-band empire, paving the way for NSync and O Town ([02:18]).

2. Industry Rivalries and Manipulation

• NSync’s rise, allegedly managed to “keep them out of your way”—but industry decisions (like turning down Disney performances) instead gave NSync momentum ([03:44] – [04:51]).
• The ethical and personal toll of intra-industry competition, with both Backstreet Boys and NSync hailing from Orlando and sharing management ([04:52]).

Brian Littrell: “It just was like this constant, icky feeling for us. Like, this is our own backyard now...It became really frustrating.” ([04:52])

3. Lou Pearlman’s Legacy and Fallout

• Pearlman’s later conviction for fraud and his complex legacy: gratitude for the opportunity, coupled with acknowledgment of profound harm ([05:44]).
• The band’s harrowing journey: losses, health crises, repeated changes in management, and legal battles ([06:17]).

Brian Littrell: “Both in the industry and in our personal lives: deaths in the family, rehabs...open heart surgery...We’ve been through shit and have overcome every single adversity.” ([06:17])

• The attempted confrontation for closure: production team nearly arranged a prison meeting with Pearlman for the band to simply ask “why?” Some members still carry resentment ([07:06] – [07:52]).

4. Owning Their Identity and Brand

• Brian details the critical legal action to regain control of the band’s name and future: litigation, financial negotiation, and finally a settlement ([08:02] – [09:23]).

Brian Littrell: “We basically paid for our name and got our gear and got our stuff and we were done. And you know, thank God. Because I don’t know what would have happened with the name.” ([09:23])

5. Mental Health, Brain Chemistry, and the Cost of Early Fame

• The toll of fame: Referencing a 2019 study noting that 80% of young musicians (18–25) reported negative mental health impacts, especially anxiety and depression ([09:54]).
• Cody Simpson describes the neurological effects of early fame (“dopamine flooding”), referencing brain scans undergone with Miley Cyrus and discussions with neuroscientists about the unnatural surge of dopamine and its consequences ([12:07]).

Cody Simpson: “Fame is a form of dopamine flooding in a way...it’s not something that you’re really supposed to experience, particularly as a teenager.” ([12:07])

• Struggling to find a “healthy baseline” after coming down from the “immense highs” of performing—leading many young stars into cycles of addiction and substance misuse ([12:46]).

6. Rebellion, Autonomy, and Loss of Control

• Cody Simpson opened up about moving out at 17, rebelling against his parents, and falling into the industry’s “trappings”: too much autonomy, unchecked access, and unhealthy power dynamics at too young an age ([13:17] – [14:56]).
• Industry attempts to sidestep child labor laws, with Cody’s parents defending against a management company’s emancipation attempt to allow him to work longer and make more money ([15:19]).

Cody Simpson: “They were trying to...claim my parents were unfit parents and to legally emancipate me so I could work...I had no idea, was shielded from it.” ([15:23])

7. “Messy Years,” Identity Crisis, and Substance Abuse

• Cody’s “messy” period ages 17–20: musical soul-searching, identity confusion, excessive partying, and drug use ([17:17] – [17:38]).

Cody Simpson: “There was a couple years there where my mom had to put Google alerts on her phone because it’s the only way she knew where I was, really… I was just rebelling in every sense of the word.” ([16:44])

• The struggle wasn’t solely negative, as creativity and musical growth intertwined with angst and destructiveness ([17:49]).
• He described recognizing his behaviors weren’t who he really was, but were attempts to “clean the slate,” break out of constraining expectations, and escape the teen pop star persona ([18:00]).

8. Hitting Rock Bottom and Seeking Help

• Cody describes his mental state deteriorating from substance misuse, leading to paranoia and “detachment from reality.” Eventually, he broke down with his parents, acknowledging he needed to change ([19:38] – [20:09]).

Cody Simpson: “I remember showing up at their house and just breaking down into tears and told them I had a problem…I needed to change whatever I was doing, you know, it wasn’t working.” ([20:09])

• He clarifies he doesn’t identify as an addict, but recognizes he “took it way too far.” ([20:47])
• The inflection point was a particularly intense night—realizing he no longer wanted to live in that “cycle,” and finally reaching for support ([21:15]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brian Littrell on Exploitation:
  “Lou was triple dipping...as well as hiding the biggest Ponzi pyramid scheme in record history.” ([02:12])

• Cody Simpson on the Brain and Fame:
  “Fame is a form of dopamine flooding in a way...not something that you’re really supposed to experience, particularly as a teenager.” ([12:07])

• Brian Littrell on Survival:
  “We’ve been through shit and have overcome every single adversity every time.” ([06:17])

• Cody Simpson on Rebellion:
  “There was a couple years there where my mom had to put Google alerts on her phone because it’s the only way she knew where I was.” ([16:44])

• Cody Simpson on Seeking Help:
  “I remember showing up at their house and just breaking down into tears and told them that I had a problem.” ([20:09])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:14] – [02:18]: Brian Littrell describes being recruited by Lou Pearlman, the early contract, and financial exploitation.
• [04:32] – [04:52]: Discussion of NSync’s rise and industry manipulation.
• [05:44] – [07:52]: Pearlman’s legacy, fallout, closure, and lasting impact on the group.
• [08:02] – [09:23]: Legal action to regain band control and identity.
• [09:54] – [12:07]: Mental health struggles and the neuroscience behind the effects of early fame.
• [13:17] – [16:44]: Cody Simpson’s story of rebellion, autonomy, and industry pressures, including emancipation attempts.
• [17:17] – [18:00]: The "messy years"—Cody discusses identity crises and substance use.
• [19:38] – [21:15]: Hitting bottom and seeking help.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode provides an unvarnished look at the real human costs of youth stardom in the music industry: from exploitation and psychological manipulation, to the neurological effects of fame, and the personal battles with identity and addiction. Both Brian Littrell and Cody Simpson urge for understanding the unseen consequences of “making it”—and underscore the vital importance of support, self-awareness, and confronting difficult truths on the long road to recovery and self-reinvention.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Interviewer]

Welcome to we're talking. In this episode, AJ McLean and Cody Simpson pull back the curtain on the darker side of the music industry, where fame comes fast, but the consequences can last a lifetime. Hey there. I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of addiction. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show. Notes. Please take care while watching. So the group, though, was found. Was it Lou Perlman?

[Brian Littrell]

Lou was the. Lou was the entrepreneur that put this whole thing together. There was a thing that went around Orlando back in the day called the blue sheet, which was essentially the classifieds for entertainment. And I was perusing through the blue sheet one day and I saw this banner that said, local entrepreneur looking to put together a vocal harmony group. A LA Boyz II Men meets New Kids on the Block. And I asked my mom, and she's like, if you want to audition. Sure. A couple days later, I met Lou, auditioned at his house with my mom, signed on the spot. On the spot, on the spot. And then that was the beginning of now, 33 years for me.

[Interviewer]

So just on the business side, though, I mean, you are. So you're 15.

[Brian Littrell]

You said I was 14.

[Interviewer]

You're 14. So you're 14. Your mother hasn't been in the business. It's just you and your mom. Do you read what you're signing? Is there any.

[Brian Littrell]

Well, there. So then there was no. It was more like a. Like a handshake then.

[Cody Simpson]

Okay.

[Brian Littrell]

It wasn't until the group, the final group was formed that then it was, you know, signing a contract, making it official. Then we signed a record deal and all these things, but it took us three years to get a record deal. But wow. But we didn't. Our parents and us as all young kids. Kevin was the oldest at the time. He was 21. Nick was 12. So we were just excited to be doing something like this. No, we didn't read the fine print. We didn't realize that lou was 1/6 of the band plus 25% commission as manager, plus getting a kickback onto the table from promoters. So he was triple dipping. Wow. As well as hiding the biggest Ponzi pyramid scheme in record history. That we didn't find out about till after we parted ways. But, yeah, it was. It was insane. And, you know, we were the guinea pigs, really, because then they. Then he started NSync, and then O Town and this and that. So they all kind of saw our track record and saw kind of what not to do by doing that. We were the guinea pigs. We were the ones that had to go through hell and back.

[Interviewer]

Was it. So I don't know if this was rumor, but I've always wanted to know the answer to this is that when. So Lou not leaves. Well, yeah, he leaves, you guys kind of kick.

[Brian Littrell]

We part ways.

[Interviewer]

He then becomes the founding or founder of NSync. Does he found NSync specifically to compete with you all with Backstreet Boys?

[Brian Littrell]

I don't know if that's really at the epicenter of why NSync and him became something, but we were told from. Because we had the same management, we had the same label, same producer was Max Martin, Jive Records. We were told that they wanted to manage NSync so that they could basically manipulate the situation where, okay, we're going to. If we have control of NSync, we can keep them out of your way. But in turn, anything we turn down, they got.

[Interviewer]

They got it.

[Brian Littrell]

And essentially, because we turned down a performance on Disney, NSync took it. And that was the kickoff of their career. JC And Justin had already come from the Mickey Mouse Club, so they already had a relationship with Disney.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Brian Littrell]

And they were on the Mouse Club with Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears. So they all came out of that world. But that. Had we done that show, I don't know if things would have happened for NSync the way they did. Maybe eventually, but that was the catalyst for them. And then it just was like this constant, icky feeling for us, like, you're really where you eat kind of thing. Like, this is our own backyard now. Like, we're all from Orlando. Same this, same that. And it. It became really frustrating. And that's when we parted ways.

[Interviewer]

Okay, with everybody, with everyone. Now, Lou Perlman was later sentenced to 27 years in prison for money laundering and fraud. And then he dies in 2016. What do you think his legacy is?

[Brian Littrell]

I mean, look, at the end of the day, we will always be grateful because without Lou, we would never be anything. Nobody would have known who we were. We wouldn't have even met. Like, he is truly at the epicenter of our creation. But everything we've done since we parted ways from him has been all Us continuing to grind, changing management companies multiple times. Literally going through it.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Brian Littrell]

Both in the industry and in our personal lives. Deaths in the family, rehabs, you name it. Open heart surgery Brian had when he's 23. Like, we've been through shit.

[Cody Simpson]

Yes.

[Brian Littrell]

And have overcome every single adversity every time. Different lengths of time to get through it, but we've gotten through it. But we did a documentary back in. God, I feel like it's five, six years ago now. Show them what you're made of. I don't know when that came out. Now. I can't remember. But one of the things in that doc that we. We were so close to coming into fruition was the production company reached out to the prison that Lou was at. And at first they got the green light for the five of us to visit him.

[Cody Simpson]

Oh, my goodness.

[Brian Littrell]

But we wanted to go simply to ask one word, one question.

[Cody Simpson]

Why?

[Brian Littrell]

Some of us had already made peace with the whole thing and kind of, you know, wrote it off. Closure. I was one of them. Okay. You know, again, beyond grateful for the opportunity that was given. Made my piece. As soon as we parted ways, I was like, okay, you're a piece of shit, and I want nothing to do with you.

[Interviewer]

And that's in the past.

[Brian Littrell]

That's fine.

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah.

[Brian Littrell]

But some of the guys, even to. I would say some of them to this day still, somewhere in here, have still a little bit of a chip, and that's okay. That's their choice, you know, to have that.

[Interviewer]

It was nasty, man. And I think fully understanding what happened gives us even more appreciation for where

[Cody Simpson]

you are right today.

[Brian Littrell]

Yeah. Once everything transpired, we were an open book about it. Like, we were, you know, we were in. I think we were in Sweden about to go back in the studio. And Brian was the one that basically really started doing some digging and finding out, like, this isn't adding up. We're out here busting our ass, leaving our families, you know, touring, traveling, and he's making the same shit we're making, and he's not lifting a finger. Plus this, this, this, and this. So he was the one that was like, okay, I'm putting together a lawsuit. You guys can hop on board with me. Or not.

[Interviewer]

Wow. So Brian.

[Brian Littrell]

Brian was the catalyst for that. And the minute we did it, Lou's instant reaction was to shut down shop. All of our gear, he locked it up in storage. Like, everything was, like, shut down for a minute. He still owned the name, so he was threatening to keep the name. So we would put basically money Aside in escrow, which was his 1/6. And essentially we just said, you know what, let's just cut him the check. And for all intents and purposes, I won't disclose the amount, but we cut him the check. Done.

[Interviewer]

That was it.

[Brian Littrell]

And that was it. We basically paid for our name and got our gear and got our stuff and we were done. Wow. And you know, thank God, because I don't know what would have happened with the name. We would have had to come up with some other something boys, I don't know.

[Cody Simpson]

Bone Boys.

[Interviewer]

The Bone Boys.

[Brian Littrell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There's one stat that I want to throw out here and I want to get your opinion on, is that so this is a 2019 study. It found that 80% of 18 to 25 year old musicians said they had a negative mental health issue with anxiety and depression being the most common.

[Cody Simpson]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So now there is not one person I've ever talked to who has experienced extreme fame at a young age and there's not been a negative consequence to it.

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah, yeah, it's. I absolutely went through my, my valley, you know, after the, the heart, you know, the mountains.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Cody Simpson]

There was this, there was this doctor, this neurologist or neuroscientist. I, I don't want to title him incorrectly, but I met him through Miley when we were together because she would do these brain scans on her brain that would kind of show all kinds of activity. And I met with him a couple times into these brain scans and it would show certain, you know, where different parts of your brain are activated at different times. And there was sometimes an issue with frontal lobe activity and dopamine or something because of, I guess as he would explain it, he did a lot of research on fame on the brain and he's worked with like Bieber, he's worked all these other guys, especially at a young age. Pretty. Your brain being fully developed to your frontal lobe being fully developed as an adult and having that amount of dopamine, it's like dopamine flooding as a child. Fame is. Fame is a form of, of dopamine flooding in a way. And going up on stage and having this, this amount of admiration, it's a, it's not a natural.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Cody Simpson]

It's not something that you're really supposed to experience, particularly as a teenager. And so you do a lot of work on how to kind of reset that and, and kind of come back to this, a healthy baseline. Because it's so easy to kind of get caught in this immense, you know, immense high and immense Low cycle. Especially as somebody who as a young person has experienced these really, really immense highs. It's hard for your brain to then kind of re. Re regulate to a place in which like normal life is enough.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Cody Simpson]

And I think that's something that a lot of people who have experienced that kind of fame young have struggled with and that's what, that's why you see a lot of people go and fall into addiction and, and substance abuse and stuff just to like main. To try and maintain that what they

[Interviewer]

felt that dopamine hit.

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah. Like what you felt out on stage doing that thing to then come back and like normal life is. Is not enough.

[Interviewer]

No.

[Cody Simpson]

You know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I, I moved out around 16, 17. I bought my own place and I moved in. I. I ended up moving in with my. Like I had a young, a younger day to day manager, tour manager at the time who was also my best friend and we spent every day together, work or not. And he moved in with me because I bought a place here in. I bought a place in. In West Hollywood when I was 17 and I. That's when things started to slip for me and I think it's because I rebelled a little bit against my family and my parents as. Which is I think a natural thing to do at that age. That's not an uncommon thing for a teenager to want their own space and then to have to go and kind of learn their. Learn your own lessons in a way.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Cody Simpson]

But that was also around the time that I started to rebel from 17, 18 was around the time I started to rebel from what. What I'd built and I started partying and kind of fell into the trappings of kind of having access to like whatever I wanted at an age that was far too young to, to be, you know, allowed that I suppose. You know, like you can, you can get in anywhere and you can get anything and people will just say yes kind of thing. It was like that amount of autonomy is unhealthy I think at that age.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Cody Simpson]

Because power is. Also has effects on the brain as well in that way. In the same way that fame does. It's sort of coupled.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Cody Simpson]

And so too much of that too early is also easy to abuse. So I felt like I was at the mercy of that a little bit.

[Interviewer]

Yes. Was there an emancipation attempt?

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah, yeah. Early, which I didn't. No, no, this was like. Oh, this was before at the start almost. Oh, really, Guy? Yeah, when I was still. When I was really early on, like a very. A Very early management company Pre. Pre Scooter and everything that. That were trying to. I think tried to claim. Claim my parents were unfit parents and to legally emancipate me so I could work because there were limits on the amount of hours I could or days I could work and my schooling. And I think under 18, you're considered a minor in the. I'm not sure exactly what the entertainment industry laws are, but they were trying to finesse those, you know, just really

[Interviewer]

so you could work longer.

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. More money, more whatever. Geez. So I was fortunately sheltered from all that at that age. My parents didn't tell me what was going on, but they had days in legal offices about it and all that stuff. And I had no idea was shielded from it.

[Interviewer]

So look at that.

[Cody Simpson]

They didn't tell me till I was probably 19 or 20.

[Interviewer]

So they were really protecting you. But then by 16, you stepped out yourself.

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And now you had to.

[Cody Simpson]

So for a couple years there, I think my mom. Like I just. I just. There was a couple years there where my mom had to put Google alerts on her phone because it's the only way she knew where I was really, because I just wouldn't. I was just rebelling in every sense of the word. And I wouldn't talk to her and not. Cause she ever did anything wrong. I think it was just my way of going to find who I was outside of everything I'd been through and feeling like my identity and my life and my. Everything was. Had been imposed on me. Which is like a really. Which is ironic because I built it for myself and wanted to build it for myself. And

[Interviewer]

in that rebellion, if you will. I've heard you describe 17 to 20 as messy years.

[Cody Simpson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

The messiest.

[Cody Simpson]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

When you think about the darkest period for you so we can understand what you were going through. What was that? What was happening?

[Cody Simpson]

To preface it, it wasn't all bad because I was doing a lot of musical and creative soul searching at the time. I was like discovering all this music. I didn't know I was actually practicing a lot of guitar. Like I was. It was directed in some ways. It was just that it was all very angsty and I was partying a lot and I was doing drugs and I was treating people poorly and it wasn't who I was. It was like this layer on top of who I really was that was just me trying to. Me trying to find myself, you know. Like, I just. I. I'd realized that I felt trapped in what I'd built and I. I was. Just felt like I needed to clean the slate or something. You know, I felt a lot of it was a creative and musical angst. I felt misunderstood musically because I felt like I was growing a lot as an artist, and I was trapped in by being a teen pop star. And so there was a lot of that. So I was like, I'm gonna do everything I can so that people don't think of me as that anymore. And, you know, there's, like, a lot of that stuff. And I was like, if. And if I have to go and party and do drugs and whatever, to, like. Like, that was almost me going, I'm not. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Brian Littrell]

Yeah.

[Cody Simpson]

It could have very easily gotten worse had. Had I not. Had my parents kind of not stepped in and. And helped me out.

[Interviewer]

How did. How did your parents know you had slept?

[Cody Simpson]

They. They knew that I was partying a lot, and I was. I was abusing. I was drinking too much, and I was doing drugs and all that stuff. I think. I think I got to the point where it. It started to affect my. My brain chemistry. Like, I was really. I started to get really paranoid and was having some psychosis and things like that. Like, I thought I was. I was. I don't know. I'd. Substance abused my way into just

[Interviewer]

a

[Cody Simpson]

detachment from reality in some sense. And I remember showing up at their house and just breaking down into tears and told them that I had a problem and not. I wasn't an addict, but I was. I was. I needed to change whatever I was doing, you know, it wasn't working. And thank God they just were ready to take me in and help me, you know?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Now, how did you know? Because when I do, I've talked to a lot of addicts, and there's typically.

[Cody Simpson]

And I can't claim to be when I'm not, and I never was. It was just this period of time where I took it way too far.

[Interviewer]

It was way too far. But the addicts that I've talked to, there's typically an inflection point where something happens where they realize, okay, this path is to my demise. I need to get on a new path. But what was for you, the inflection point that allowed you to then go to your parents for help?

[Cody Simpson]

I think I just had, like, a really big night, and I was freaking out, and I was coming down and realizing that I didn't want to live in this cycle anymore and had just slipped too far from who I was and the values that I, you know, claimed to hold dear and went to them and just broke down. You know, my nervous system and my psychology and everything was suffering a lot. And I just realized I needed to and wanted to, you know, clean up and get back on track and actually keep working towards the things I said I wanted. And you know, that when you're in that, like, that kind of state, the partying and the. The highs from that can be so seductive. Like, they become more important than. Yes. The real thing.

[Interviewer]

Yes. And if you want to hear the full, unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out or the we need to Talk page. Drop a, like, leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.