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The Investor's Podcast (We Study Billionaires) - The Investor’s Podcast Network
BTC251 : Tech Abundance w/ Jeff Booth
00:47:04
Preston and Jeff dive into the tech frontier—expanding beyond Bitcoin into robotics, AI, and nuclear tech—while exploring how decentralized systems shape our future economy and identity.
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- [00:01]
Preston Pish
You are listening to Tip.
- [00:03]
Hey, everybody. Welcome to this Wednesday's release of the Bitcoin Fundamentals podcast. On this week's show, I have back author, entrepreneur, and technology expert Jeff Booth on the show. And the reason Jeff is here is because I have a big announcement, and he's the perfect person for me to present this additional direction and scope of the show with. I don't want to give away too much, so we're just going to jump right into the show. I hope you guys enjoy.
- [00:32]
Celebrating 10 years. You are listening to Bitcoin Fundamentals by the Investors podcast Network. Now for your host, Preston Pish.
- [00:50]
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. I'm here with the one and only Jeff Booth. Welcome back.
- [00:56]
Jeff Booth
So good to see you, buddy.
- [00:57]
Preston Pish
Hey. So the impetus for this discussion kind of percolated out of you and I just having a candid conversation on where I wanted to go with the show and what I'm trying to do. And what we quickly realized is that a discussion between the two of us might be warranted to kind of bridge in where I plan on going with all of this. So I appreciate you making time and just, you know, I mean, you're obviously a good friend, but I also look at you as a mentor as well, Jeff. So thank you for coming on and having this conversation with me.
- [01:29]
Jeff Booth
No problem. Do you want to drop the bomb right away?
- [01:32]
Preston Pish
I think we should. I think, you know, like, why are we doing this? What is this all about? So I guess I'll start off and obviously chime in where you feel it's pertinent, but I really want to cover more things on the show like I cover bitcoin every single week. And as an engineer and as somebody who's just deeply curious in general, I'm looking at everything. That's what I think is going to play out in the coming 10 years. And I think that this coming decade is going to be completely nuts. I think there's going to be so much change, and I kind of want to cover a lot of this, and I want to cover it from different angles. And first and foremost, your thesis, Jeff, of the price of tomorrow was a massive change in just in shift in how I think about everything. Like this idea of deflation in technology is something that just changed how I was looking at economics, how I was looking at bitcoin. I was already a bitcoiner, but it just entrenched everything that I thought I knew in a much deeper way, because I wasn't looking at technology as a thing that was compounding with time in the opposite direction of what the FIAT was compounding in the other direction. And when you kind of combine those things together, it was just like my mind exploded. And so this is what I'm trying to say in a lot of words, I guess I want to start covering robotics. I want to start covering AI, I want to start covering nuclear. And the whole gambit of all of these technologies that seem to be each their own vector, kind of all pointing to this idea of a monetary revolution. I think that they all intersect and they all interrelated, and I want to start covering all of that. So go ahead, Jeff, tell the audience what you told me when we were talking on the phone.
- [03:23]
Jeff Booth
I just thought it made perfect sense. I've known you now for quite a while, but we've always known you to be super curious about where the world's going and actually not afraid to change your mind on something if new information makes sense. And that's a math and strength. It's actually, I think it's why your podcast is so successful, because that's what you've done and people followed your journey the entire time. And so now take what you know. And you've chased Bitcoin to the ground, every hole, every spot. And I don't think you're not saying you're giving up on Bitcoin, you're just saying this is a base layer forced aside. I've chased it to the ground. It is Bitcoin. It reinforces that the pre market is deflation and we've never lived in one. If Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure, it is inevitable that we are living in one. Let's explore the other technologies that are allowing that to accelerate. And so exploring some of those other technologies, when we say technologies, when I hear you describe that they're not other things, they're us inventing new things to be able to solve problems, our ideas that are the basis of technology. And that's what now we have a base layer that allows all of that abundance to flow to all of us. Where the free market is, it's massively competitive. Everyone has to compete to provide value to you. And if you're holding Bitcoin, if you're part of the bitcoin ecosystem, all of that abundance is flowing to you. So you're looking at all of that. If you're part of the ether system, all of that abundance is being extracted from you and centralized against you. And so you already understand Bitcoin, you understand it to the sand. So I'm sure, you're going to weave it in from time to time because it's important that people understand that phenomenon, what's happening. But I love that you're going to go and explore your mind, your curiosity to explore some of these other topics.
- [05:17]
Preston Pish
I'm still going to cover bitcoin. I just, you know, it might not be every week, but I'm still going to bring on guests and talk about bitcoin and whatever new is developing. But I guess from my vantage point, I'm looking at other nation states that are adopting it. I'm looking at the number of corporations that are adopting it. I'm looking at it from just a pure technical standpoint, which we've covered ad nauseam on the show. And I'm saying I just don't see what's going to supplant it or what's going to outpace it long term. But I'm looking at all these other things and I'm saying the deflation that's happening, like this optimus robot, humanoid robot, like we will talk about that, I guess, a little bit more. But when I'm looking at things like that, I'm looking at AI and I'm looking at these virtual worlds that they're using to train the potentially trained humanoid robots and all this kind of stuff. And I'm thinking this is going to be absolutely insane in the coming decade. And I'm combining that with what I'm seeing in bitcoin. And I'm saying, how in the world can any of these sovereign entities that are just printing pieces of paper at a breakneck pace possibly compete with Bitcoin or where this is all going from an abundance standpoint? And I just think the story is so much bigger. Like, so much bigger. And I just want to kind of, I want to cover each one of these topics, but I also want to cover how they get stitched together and how they're all interrelated from a much bigger picture to kind of maybe understand where we think a lot of this is going. So, yeah, so let's just keep on.
- [06:53]
Jeff Booth
Let's just have a conversation and pull on these threads. And these threads are important to pull on because venture, say, most bitcoiners still today are not understanding that the natural state of the free market is deflation and prices should fall. And if you're measuring in Bitcoin, prices are falling at the same rate as that technology is growing. Right? So if you measure things from Bitcoin, instead of convert Bitcoin to your piece of paper, then you'll see exactly, precisely what I'm saying. Your model of the world should match, if it's correct, should match exactly what's happening. So the model I laid out in the world and is a Bitcoin is free markets deflation. Technology is going to accelerate. It's not accelerating, it's moving exponentially. And we didn't, we couldn't understand exponentials. And that meant all of these technologies, they're going to coincide at the same time as this rate. We can't even understand. And it's going to seem crazy, but if you were in Bitcoin, then all prices are falling by that rate. If you are not in Bitcoin, all of that has to be consolidated at that rate. And it would look like coercion control. Most people are giving the system of coercion and control more energy by leaning into it, by their fear image because they're not priced in Bitcoin, they're not spending in Bitcoin. They're using a derivative instrument of Bitcoin thinking price is going up. That system is still inflationary. A system has to still be inflationary. And it's the opposite of what I'm saying, the opposite of the pre market prices go down. Meaning we've never lived in a global free market. Nobody has a basis to understand that. And it takes lots of time to understand what's happening at the same time. All of these technologies are moving exponentially, creating chaos in our brain from our previous models. Religious use. Some examples of. If that model of reality was correct, and in my mind it certainly is, because it's explaining everything. Not one thing, everything. What would it feel like? Let's use some examples and let's use some examples of why it would gain more fear in the minds of most of the population. Let's use some simpler examples. First, I'm going to lose my job. Prices are going up. Prices are going up. I'm going to lose my job to AI. What do I do? I turn to the government. I'm spending in the fiat dollar and save. What does the government do? I'll save you because I'll get votes. How do I save you? I print more money, destroy and make it worse for you. That accelerates. Accelerates at the same pace as technology is moving the other way. Centralizes faster. What do lives look like? Or in that system they get changed and all your freedoms go away from that centralization because they have to. You're voting for what does technology look like over you? It looks like a control system owned by Three or four or two giant monopolies of AI companies that all of your information is going through and you're feeding it, making it stronger. Where they could turn you off at any moment. Not just money, but everything or potentially worse because you're feeding it in that system. Your mind is being warped to what that system wants you to believe. But you have no idea because you're inside that system through fear, making it stronger with how do I survive? That would happen. What would happen as it got worse and worse and worse. And I'm going down the fear track at first because that's majority of the population is living in that fear without realizing they're living in that fear. What they are saying is it's someone else, it's not me. Somebody else is responsible for my happiness and they're stuck in that fear. But as more and more coercion and control, and as the free market gives us tools to essentially create our own AIs bioengineering, and what will people do that want to burn it all down, but the same technology that could free all of us, they will use those technologies to create massive problems for the world. Right, because they're so stuck. And what will the system do in reaction? Try to stop it. How will it stop it? It will drive more printing of money, more coercion, more control. What most people in the system do. Yes, stop them. What will those people do because they're so hurt from that? They will want to burn it tail down. It'll divide society and it'll get worse and worse. And I know that's a really dystopian view, but I just want to make sure why I use that as an example. Because these technologies are inevitable anyways. They're coming no matter what. When you think robot or robot dogs or your fear is what that will look like, you're seeing a tiny, tiny fraction of what will happen. There's going to be nano robots, There'll be every robot of different uses, not just in our lights, but purpose built robots to be able to do all of this. There'll be swarms, robots, we see that already in drones today. It'll be everywhere. And AI will be driver of all those things. This is coming no matter what. The free market demands that all of that price, all of the prices, the abundance from that, those that flows to you. Because an entrepreneur cannot create more value without you using more value and it flowing to you. You're part of the free market. In the world I described from Bitcoin, there would be no reason to fight with everybody, to divide everybody, because your life would be getting better and better and better and better, better and better and better from all of this same thing. The only way as an entrepreneur, instead of it looking like three or two or three big food monopolies, drug monopolies, robot monopolies, AI monopolies that are going to merge and all interact with the government, with your money together to control you, but money has been stolen from you. There will be thousands of companies by individuals trying to deliver value to you. And there can't be any monopoly in the world that I'm describing.
- [12:53]
Preston Pish
Mm, I think that's the thing also that I want to make sure is covered is this idea of open source technology as it relates to AI, as it relates to robotics, as it relates to all of these different things. Because if the money like you're describing Bitcoin is there providing value and allowing cooper incentivizing cooperation as opposed to the opposite, which is what Fiat's doing, the incentive for open source technologies is going to proliferate with time. And somebody needs to cover, somebody needs to be talking about some of this stuff. And we're seeing it already. Like we just. You and I had a conversation last week about an OS that was open source, that's through a web browser, things like that. I find that stuff so fascinating and so important for the world to see. I think I just saw last week one employee took the entire weights of X AI's current model and took it to OpenAI. And so I think another part with this existing system and the way that all these technologies are being built is I think they're very precarious to protection. And I think that with time the models, like some of these very advanced models are going to be leaked. And I think you're going to have this movement from an open open source standpoint that is somewhat unstoppable in the same direction that you just kind of described the proliferation of these fiat based tech and centralized technologies. It's the classic, you know, you're watching a movie and there's the villain and you know, some positive cooperative force entity, individual or whatever almost has to be able to be stood up to counter it. And I think that we're seeing this literally play out in real time with the world and the way that it's shaped in the technology and all this stuff that's happening. And I guess I want to cover all of it, I want to be there covering all of it.
- [14:55]
Jeff Booth
But you're going to be super important in that, like super Important in that. Because every one that I see covering that right now, everyone I see covering it right now, they have a bias within the fiat world, meaning it all gets centralized at a faster rate. Just. And that's why you just keep on coming down to the first principle. Yeah. The natural state of the free market is deflation. Prices fall to the marginal cost of production. What would you expect to happen in that natural state of the world? You would expect, as technology exploded, prices default, marginal cost, production everywhere. What's happening in the world? Not that unless you're bidding.
- [15:33]
Preston Pish
Unless you're Bitcoin.
- [15:34]
Jeff Booth
In Bitcoin. Unless you're in Bitcoin. And so even when you say open source, Open source is fantastic and I'm a huge proponent, but it won't need to be open source because they everywhere, because entrepreneurs are connected to what. And if what they're giving you does, if it provides value for a while, then somebody else, because of the margin they're making, will compete with them.
- [15:57]
Preston Pish
That's right.
- [15:58]
Jeff Booth
And prices will fall. And so today, where does the money for open source come from? Money from open source comes from somebody wanting to donate that they're making this money over here to this other system. So it's money for open source. Not that that's bad or good or anything else. I love that the money's still coming from somebody who's made the money from a broken system that is donating. And if money dries up, then there is no open source. The free market has to win. We are a part of the free market. The more you do in the free market, the more you do in bitcoin, the faster it wins. Every one of us, every single person on the planet has agency in that discussion. If you're not in that discussion. So now you take what you know about bitcoin, what you know about your own agency operating in a system that needs to remain decentralized and secure for this global vengeance to flow to all of us. And you've married out with all of these technologies and you will stitch together a show like no one else's show because all of those other shows are true of Fiat Lens. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.
- [17:05]
Preston Pish
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- [21:07]
Jeff Booth
All right, back to the show.
- [21:09]
Preston Pish
I want to get a little specific on something that literally this came out yesterday. Elon Musk replies to this whole Mars catalog. They were asking a question about, you know, scaling and becoming multi planetary and all this. And this was Elon's response, which I think is just mind blowing. Check this out, Jeff. There's their question and his response. And down in here says 80% of Tesla's value will be Optimus. Like that is totally nuts for him to come out and say that based on what we know about Tesla today and the cars and like where all of that's at. And just, you can just see where he thinks all of this is going, like very quickly for a product that hasn't even launched yet. He's, and I know Elon can be very, he can say things way ahead.
- [22:00]
Jeff Booth
Of time that that's their, their value. Now what he's not saying is, is that value because what you're describing, even in that tweeter he's describing, in that page he's describing, I'm going to have the largest company in the world and it's going to be a giant monopoly because it's a fake one. That's what he was describing or what people are reading. What he's not describing is he's being repriced by Bitcoin right now. His company is being repriced by Bitcoin right now. And over Bitcoin's term, that 80% could be a really Small company with thousands of competitors. And it still might be true.
- [22:32]
Preston Pish
Oh, yeah, I see what you're. I see what you see.
- [22:35]
Jeff Booth
What I see on the same thing. And I know because I'm pretty close to the robotics sector in one, but very close to the AI. He is. That's why I bought Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. To digest the information, your information, to be able to train the models, add those models to the test, but to the vision, what test has and all of the vision models to be able to move this. He's got a fantastic engineering team and he is one of the leaders. But. But those leaders are coming out of China as well. Yeah, leaders are at a crazy rate. Look at. Is it byd? Look at the cars flying out of China in comparison to the cars coming out of Tesla still. And you'll see. Wow, that competition is real. Yeah, that competition. He is not the only one doing this. And he's not winning everywhere. He's winning where he has a regulatory vote.
- [23:28]
Preston Pish
You know what's interesting about the car thing? So we were over in Dubai and we were talking to some of the people that. The Uber drivers that were driving us around and some of the cars, I'd never seen some of these cars before that were on the road. And I started talking to one guy about it and he said, oh, yeah, a lot of these are Chinese car manufacturers. And what was weird was some of them looked like Range Rover or some of them looked like brands that in the U.S. like, almost identical. But then you get inside and the bells and whistles that they have inside and the intelligence in the car was off the charts. And I'm there thinking to myself, well, this was the other point, was the price was so much cheaper than what you would pay for one of these Western car brands. And then it dawned on me. It's like they are eating the data out of these cars where they're driving, what they're saying inside all of it at a discount or maybe even cost so that they can collect all that information. And so to your point, which I think is very salient, is the competition isn't just like what we're seeing here in the US or what we're being fed through our social media feed. So much of this race of deflation, technological deflation, is happening on an international scale and I think, like, way more profound and way more competitive than many of us realize.
- [24:53]
Jeff Booth
So way more. And so those cars are a third of the price. Wow.
- [24:57]
Preston Pish
And so they're marked that they're just losing money on them or the for.
- [25:00]
Jeff Booth
The AI, they might not be losing money. Their labor is cheaper. These are dark robotics factories that are AI being becoming AI built. They don't have any lights on, they don't have any humans. So first the human labor was a lot cheaper. The human labor was cheaper because AINA was using their currency is an advantage to keep their exports up to have the human labor cheaper. Right. So their labor was cheaper. What did the pre market do? All of the US companies that were trying to compete for euro dollars funneled all their production to China because the US the labor was cheaper. What did that do? China needed to be competitive at a price that was lower and lower and lower. So they automated. Automated, Automated. They created some of these first dark factories that didn't have humans in so that they could reach price point. As the US regulatory mode on their cars protected Tesla and GM and other cars. What did China market do? They sold those cars to anyone else who wanted to buy. And that's why they're lower cost, not because they're giving them away.
- [26:06]
Preston Pish
How far out? And I have, for people that are looking at the video, I have the Optimus robot pulled up here and just showing like all the different tasks that it's being trained on and like what this impact might be kind of moving forward. When you look at stuff like this, Jeff, I mean this is your thesis from five, six years ago when you wrote the book. What kind of world is this going to be in? From what I read, this is going to be in households. Call it three years from now, you're going to be able to have something like this in your house, maybe four. And then at scale you're probably seven, eight years out where these things are everywhere. And it's not just like you said, just not just this robot, it's going to be all sorts that are maybe more specialized for the factory. I think the humanoid ones are going to be the ones that go into the homes. But when you think about how much labor is going to be eaten away at with things like this, I can't even wrap my head around it.
- [27:03]
Jeff Booth
Yeah. So when you're showing this now, some of the stuff that's happening behind the scenes, to do that first in that video you saw a whole bunch of humans. Mm, five years. It won't look like that. Yeah, but to do the hand articulation, to figure how much pressure do I put on this object to be able to pick this up, to cut, to sweep, to do all of these things that you're talking about, tie it into everything else to walk to. These are complex tasks. They're being tackled at a rate it's hard to comprehend. I saw a robot skin investment that I didn't actually make, but it was. Most of this is done by cameras today. Takes tons of camera dimensions and everything else, tons of data to be able to train this censored skin is the same feel, touch as we do. And then all of that data is collected into the models because it has all of these sensors. And think about what it would look like in gaming, right, if you had haptic sensors everywhere and what that gaming would look like now. Cover a robot in the same haptic sensors everywhere. And now it picks up more information for the AI to learn at a greater pace and can do all these things. So this, the confluence of all of these things is happening at a rate that if you're outside of it, and it's going to be interesting all your journey and your new show too, because you're going to be able to weave together this plus this plus this plus this plus this and all what's happening on Bitcoin to show wow, the rate of this and what this means where so many people are in a silo, one of these silos, and not understanding how the greater picture all unfolds together.
- [28:43]
Preston Pish
So on that topic, I want to, I want to talk about how AI just in general is augmenting the learning of some of these humanoid or has the potential to augment the learning. So check this out, Jeff. So here is a what appears to be like a video footage, right? You're looking at a person walking through a museum right now, first person view. They're looking at just some rocks, are looking at the dinosaur there. They're kind of moving around. Here they are on a market, walking, there's flowers on the street. And all of this is being generated real time with AI. This is Genie 3, which is just ad hoc, making things up as it goes through. Ingested a bunch of video footage from YouTube, evidently, is how this was generated. I believe this is a Google model. And so you're looking at it and you're saying, well, how in the world would this ever be used? And you just got done talking about how on the robotic side, how it has to be trained on like all of this information, right? It has to be in this real environment. But one of the fastest things that, that we're finding on the robotic side for training purposes is simulated training so that you, the robot in this synthetic environment, you tell it to learn how to dance or you learn how to Pick up this ball or whatever it is, and they go over and over again. But if you have this simulated environment where they can run a million iterations of it, they can learn. You went away, you went back to bed and you slept for the night. You come back in the morning. And now the robot's perfect at picking up the ball as opposed before, where it had to do it in the real environment. It might have taken five days. So I'm looking at this synthetic environment that's being ad hoc, built on the fly. My understanding is that it can remember up to like 90 seconds of what it showed before in the environment. Like as it's just spontaneously generating all of this on the fly. And it's almost like we're building a dream environment for robots to learn. And I'm just looking at this stuff, it is blowing my mind. Like, what in the world? Like the speed, I think that's the thing, is the speed at which this is all taking place is beyond words, it's beyond comprehension.
- [30:59]
Jeff Booth
Yeah. And that can do one of two things. You can get excited about that, be part of it, or you can get fearful of it. And how does this impact me right now? And these technologies are impacting all of us. We see these things, we say, well, how dare those companies take our jobs? Well, what are we going to do about it? Well, we live in a fiat system, making sure those companies take our jobs and prices rise that whole time. And that would take your synthetic data and take it to its natural conclusion. Or let's live in that centralized world, not through Bitcoin. Then all of the information inside the system, more and more of it would be synchetic. It would be what we were told. We wouldn't know the difference. We would be stuck. We'd be stuck in that world. That's what it would look like. I don't think it ever goes like this. By the way, this is also the same collision between what's happening in the world, what you can feel that's happening in the world, and then you can take your own actions within that collision. And you could say, what world, what future am I making stronger with my actions? Am I making the one where I live in this emphasized world stronger, where somebody's controlling me and everything I do, or can I make the free market stronger with my actions? Right. And every single person is going to play that in these. We are the supercomputer in my mind, right? The new information, what was there before, not that it can't come from the computer, but the new information is always from our mind, outside of the information the system holds. And we are the thing that says, wait, what about this? What about this? What about this? And so we're bringing that new information to a system that the output is the prices. The output is the prices fall. If you trained garbage in, you'd get garbage out. Right. If it was all synthetic information, look at what some of the algorithms did. If you use Google as an example, when now we've destroyed a whole bunch of the woke up. But look at what the algorithms did and some of what that looked like. Yeah, right. When you asked it a question, and the reason it looked so egregious to you is because your brain said, that's not right. Yeah, right. And so you can just now imagine if you didn't know, to say that that's not right, that your brain said, oh, yeah, that's okay, that's okay. Okay. That's what that other system looks like.
- [33:26]
Preston Pish
If I was going to push back on whether, you know, where this is all going, could start generating its own unique, useful data and more importantly, creative thoughts on how to advance things forward from a robot's perspective. I think that leading experts in the space would make the argument that this is why we need humanoid robots. We need the AI to be able to nest itself into a vehicle that allows it to go out into the environment and have its own unique experiences. And when it can go out in there and do that and retain its own unique experiences, then it's going to have a more compartmentalized experience that isn't, you know, in training and AI. If you train it on a massive data set, it's hard for it to be an expert in one specific thing. But if it goes out and it learns in that specific domain, let's say that it's trying to be a doctor. Right. And it's shadowing a doctor, and it's being fed with tons of real information for years in that specific domain. And it's not compressing other information that would cloud its judgment.
- [34:37]
Jeff Booth
Right.
- [34:38]
Preston Pish
That you might start getting very unique insights and you might start getting advancements from that compartmentalized robot or humanoid robot that's going out there and living a unique life. Would you agree with that, Jeff, or would you disagree with something like that?
- [34:53]
Jeff Booth
Yeah, so I don't see. And I'm going to be interested to watch some of your shows and that point of view. So my mind is open. But if you said, what do I believe? I don't believe it at all. I believe what you're Hearing is through centralized AI companies telling you what they want you to hear to be able to drive centralized structure. And then they're not doing it on purpose. They're doing it to try to compete in the free market. And they're getting bigger and bigger to extract most of the gains from that in three or four companies and all their employees in that. So they're just trying to compete, provide I'm going to win the robot race. But all these models, or all the models that most people are using are these centralized models, right? So what would change that? Now you and I have also seen what's changing that too. We're able to watch all of this. Or I'm able to watch. You're able to watch all of this unfold is based on Bitcoin and based on Noster and other things. You're seeing people take these models, compress them, have an agent that's on a pub key, that is the division of labor narrowly defined, that the agent doesn't have to be coerced by other centralized models. It can't be. It's an agent that's very, very narrow. Now you string together a whole bunch of these agents and they build up your brain of a robot that would look very different because it couldn't be controlled. Couldn't be controlled by this. It would get better and better and better. And just like we, just like you and I are two different fractals of value, creating people that have very different strengths and weaknesses that we add to the world. With all eight other 8 billion people adding their strengths and weaknesses to the world as how if you had these looking like this and these individual strengths and a coalescing that couldn't be controlled, then I see a very different path. That's the path I think it's going to happen. We're very early on that path. And that path isn't guaranteed because there's so much control from the centralized AI. And that bigger game in the centralized AI is a government game too, because you have a geopolitical game between us, Russia, China. Oh yeah, India wanting to control AI when it's virtually going to be impossible to control AI. There's going to be like in that world, you would have a couple companies controlling AI on each side and all the war games underneath it. What you're thinking in that space for control would be really confusing. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.
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- [40:53]
Jeff Booth
All right, back to the show.
- [40:55]
Preston Pish
I think you're already seeing somewhat of that bifurcation playing out where China is the centralized government AI. I would like to think that in the US it's open and that the government's not nearly as involved as China. But I think the government is involved.
- [41:11]
Jeff Booth
It's not. Yeah. It's just like you believe the natural belief you have is China is selling those cars at a loss because those people are bad. Right. It's just a belief that you have in your own system of control. And so remember Deep Seq came out of China and it was open source and blew the open source. And so there's tons of these models coming out of China. Why? Because they can download the same infrastructure. They can reverse engineer these models. Yeah. Compress them, put them out as open source and send a shockwave through a rest of a control structure that is doing something different. Now what about the fairy frontage for these models? What does that look like? The stuff that we can't see it. Yeah.
- [41:54]
Preston Pish
Mind blowing stuff. I just can't even imagine where this is going. Let's talk about demographics really fast. So you see all of these declining populations in developed nations and it only adds more fuel to the fire of everything we're talking about and help people understand why first of all. And then I guess some of your thoughts on that trend and I guess why you see that being important, whether you see that trend changing and just your overall thoughts in general on demographics.
- [42:28]
Jeff Booth
I think primarily demographics is. I'm not a demographics expert at all. But let's say you see a general move all over the world is when standard of living rises, people have less children. What would that mean? We want our genes to survive and thrive. And when there's infant mortality, we have more children. Make sure that that happens. That's probably the biological reason. And then as standard delivering rises, we have less children. Now you add to that most people are delaying having children because they can't afford. They don't think they can afford children. And you get a massive decline because people are waiting and waiting and waiting or saying, I don't need to have this. We're so stuck in their fear of what their kids are going to grow up in in the future world. They're scared to have children. And so what are all these things? It's just one more kind of giant thing that people are in their bubble and worried about from their bubble or in the fiat world that is contributing to the fear. Like name one problem, any global problem that you care about. I'm not talking to your audience, not you, Preston, that you care about that could be solved by just that, by debasing money. The problem that you're worried about is from the debate, spent money, from the control of money. Every single problem where the opposite system would provide opposite results. So what does that mean? Well, I would say, and even in bitcoin, when I say Bitcoin, 90% of Bitcoiners, they're measuring it from a fiat instrument. What does that mean? They're giving more strength to a world that's centralizing faster. What I expect those people to do, sell their bitcoin back to the fiat paper, and then the fiat papers be devalued again and again and again. So they might look pure rich for a while in that. But what does that mean when I say that means we are so early in this transition? What does that mean? This transition is going to be chaotic. It is going to be. And where you're putting your energy in the transition, it will be less chaotic for you. Right? But these things are tied because they're all the demographics is tied to it. The capital and labor searches for where capital and labor is treated fairly. So what you have is nations around the world. And this is happening in Bitcoin too, right? And you have this base layer that if it stays decentralized and secure, which you are a part of making sure if you run a node, you contribute your time to a system that is for you. If you're spending in that currency, you're contributing to the global free market that is for you. And I could say the same things, the opposite. If you're not, you're contributing to a world that's extracting from you at a rate. And I'm not making any judgment what people should do or shouldn't do, but they can ask themselves, do I have agency in the world that I'm creating or do I not? What you'll see, and we see this in bitcoin because we're so far into it, and we're seeing all of these things emerge. But when people move more of their time to bitcoin, their lives get better. They see that they want to have children. It would be just a mere reflection of their belief set playing back, which would be true in the natural state of the free market. And everything would be just playing out. And the more people there, if very few people understand what we're talking about right now, they're still stuck in this other system, then it's going to be chaotic. Yeah.
- [46:01]
Preston Pish
If you could. So looking back at your book, the Price of Tomorrow, did you Write it in 2019, Jeff, or did it get released in 2019?
- [46:09]
Jeff Booth
Pre. Released in 2019, January 2020. I. It was on Amazon. Yeah.
- [46:14]
Preston Pish
Wow. Okay. So we're already a half a decade in on the book. If you had to rewrite or add chapters, what would you. Looking at the assessment of what was in it versus what you wish maybe could be added or should have also been in it, what would you put?
- [46:31]
Jeff Booth
I would have gone deeper on energy. I would have gone deeper on nuclear. And I think in that time I probably had a bias too, on that specific technology because it was one of those ones that was excluded from my data set intentionally. I think potentially in that you start to learn more of how you thought when you look and what different changes that would be one I would for sure go deeper on. And then I don't think I would have written any more on bitcoin at the time, because I would now because I'm so much deeper on what that looks like at that time. At that time, I. When I've said this on many podcasts, I had a 5% probability in my mind that bitcoin would fail in time and came with that 5% probability because understanding that we'd never lived in a global free market, that meant we had to be part of the problem because we use things that provide us more value each day. But we lived in this other system that was extracting that value, that. That meant for four or five thousand years we were in a zero sum game, that we must have been part of the zero sum game. And I figured there's no way bitcoin could resolve that paradox because it's us, not somebody else. It's not. It's us that won't let that. And so if you figure it's us and there's all of this history that shows that you're not going to get out of this trap. Yeah. Then you have to have a really high bar on remaining decentralized and secure. And it was through that high bar trying to break bitcoin, my actions changed. I contributed more of my time. I started running an oath. I started spending it. We started the venture capital company together to invest in others that were building onto it together. It was that I understood I had agency in the world I wanted to see. And nobody could take my agency because that agency was with tens of thousands of other nodes that also had agency that were protecting this. And no matter what this system said or did or anything else, I had agency. And that changed because I realized by doing that I had agency now. I wanted to protect that, wanted to spend more time. I spend a lot of time teaching others or helping others to see that they have agency too. And now that I wouldn't have changed the book at that time. But I sure have learned a lot from that time. And if I were rewrite something more I would write on this piece because I think there's many, many people still trapped in the UFCA world that don't realize that the jail cell door is open so they can walk over heaven. They have a state agency in the world that they want to create. And it doesn't have to be one of fear and coercion and control. It can be one of hope, truth, and abundance.
- [49:21]
Preston Pish
What a powerful statement. I don't even want to ask another question because I want to end it on that. That is such a powerful statement. Jeff, thank you so much. Mostly for just being a close friend and somebody that's always providing just keen insights and things like that. I just feel super blessed to be able to call you a friend and somebody that I can always call on and get just really sound advice from. So thanks for coming.
- [49:46]
Jeff Booth
Right back at you. And I can't wait for this new part of the journey. It's going to be fun.
- [49:51]
Preston Pish
I'm excited.
- [49:52]
Jeff Booth
I'm going to be an ad listener.
- [49:54]
Preston Pish
I'm excited to cover it. I'm just really excited about all these things. And the thing that I've learned from doing this show for a decade is if you do have an interest in something and you just kind of reach out to experts and bring them on for conversations, you can just share in this learning experience. I'm learning every show I do. I'm learning right along with the audience and the guests that come on, and it's just a really, really fun experience. So I'm looking forward to covering some of this stuff. And I want to emphasize this. I'm still to cover bitcoin. I'M still going to be bringing on guests to talk about Bitcoin as well, but it's going to be in addition to all these other things and hopefully I'm able to kind of stitch it all together and provide the holistic picture is what I'm really trying to do, of where we're going, man, where are we going this coming decade. It's going to be nuts, but can be fun. It's going to be fun and it's going to be, I believe it's going to be a very abundant world for those that are moving away from that fear of the legacy, fiat, entrapment, prison cell. And like Jeff said, the door is wide open for those that want to choose to walk out of it. So very exciting stuff. We're going to have a link to Jeff's book in the show Notes. Anything else? You're not really active on X. You're more active on Noster these days, from what I understand. Jeff, right? Any other highlights that you want to put out there or things that you want to promote?
- [51:15]
Jeff Booth
No, no. Yeah. Just. I'm just looking forward to following you and your learning adventure on this. Going to be fun to watch.
- [51:22]
Preston Pish
Thanks, Jeff. Thank you so much for making time.
- [51:25]
Jeff Booth
Thank you.
- [51:26]
Preston Pish
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